The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 225: Why Does Jake Maynard Think My S.W.E.A.T. Pledge is Bonkers?

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Mike interviews Chloe Hudson, a 28-year-old welder who received a work ethic scholarship from mikeroweWORKS, and went on to earn six-figures a year, and more recently, the subject of a new documentary called Trading Up. Together, they unpack The S.W.E.A.T. Pledge, and try to determine why a writer named Jake Maynard thinks it's "bonkers."

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demystifying AI. It's filled with super useful information, and again, it's free at netseweet.com. That's netseweet.com. Hey, guys, this is the way I heard it episode number 225, and this one is called, Why Does Jake Maynard Think My Sweat Pledge is Bonkers? Jake Maynard is a former fisherman turned journalist who writes for a magazine called The New Republic. And last week he wrote an article about me best described as, oh, let's just call it non-flattering. In general, Jake likes the shows that I work on, but he hates the fact that I now have a show on Fox Business called How America Works.

He also hates the fact that in the past my foundation has accepted donations from institutions like the Charles Koch Foundation. He hates the fact that I did a graduation speech for Prager University. and he hates the fact that many years ago I participated in a manufacturing summit with Mitt Romney. His article is entitled Mike Rose's Dirtiest Job, Cozying Up to Conservatives. Now, look, normally I would ignore articles like this and cheap shots from writers with an axe to grind, but Jake Maynard not only took a shot at me in this article, he took a shot at the people who have signed my sweat pledge. Now, the sweat pledge is a document that I require every scholarship applicant to sign if they want to be considered for a work ethic scholarship from the Microwworks Foundation. It's a real simple 12-point pledge that I wrote 10 years ago that attempts to articulate the relevance of work ethic and delayed gratification and a positive attitude and a measure of personal responsibility in the life of anyone who has ever felt a measure of job,

satisfaction. In his piece, Jake refers to this sweat pledge as, and I'm quoting, bonkers. And that, I must confess, inspired me to respond on my Facebook page, which I did just a few hours ago to his article. In fact, if you're going to listen to this podcast, and I hope you will, you might want to go to my Facebook page first just to read what Jake wrote along with my response to it. It's not short, but it's instructive because it provides a window, I think, into how politics ruins everything and why we have 11 million open jobs today. Again, I normally wouldn't drag a social media dust up onto this podcast, but this week I had already intended to introduce you to my guest, Chloe Hudson, a 28-year-old welder who, coincidentally, applied for a work ethic scholarship from my foundation several years ago and got one and then went on to become a very successful welder at Joe Gibbs Aerospace. close. Chloe is one of the 1,400 people who have signed my sweat pledge. So, on this episode, I ask her, among other things, to help me determine if the document that she and so many other

people have signed is, in fact, bonkers, as Jake Maynard steadfastly maintains. And if so, why? Well, Chloe does that and a whole lot more. She makes a case for the trades in a way that's more compelling, I think, than anything I could ever hope to say. She not only embodies the sweat pledge, she defies everything you think you know about welders. She's a success story that America needs to know about, and I can't wait for you to meet her. This is the way I heard it, episode 225. Why does Jake Maynard think my sweat pledge is bonkers? The countdown is an amazing thing, man. Whether it's in TV or rocket launches, when you hear somebody counting down, It just, I think Chloe, it builds an unnecessary level of anxiety.

Has that been your experience in TV so far? A hundred percent. Yeah, it's amazing why directors do this, but they all do it. They want you to be completely natural, and there you are on the set, and all of a sudden, everything gets quiet, and they look at you, and they go, okay, now be yourself in five, four, three, and then it's like sweat. Yeah, it's the worst. The worst one ever was a guy.

I think this was an infomercial, and I was in New York years ago, and this guy would get the whole set quiet, and he'd look at me, and he'd say, you're going to be fine. And I'm like, I know I'm going to be fine. He goes, no, you're going to be fine. Are you ready? Now, three, two, N, energy, energy, action. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. I'm so glad I'm in the trades. No kidding. How are you and where are you? I am fantastic, no complaints here, and I am in my humble abode here in my house in Hunter'sville, North Carolina. Now, as I recall, you're a Carolina girl through and through, born in one, currently working in the other one? Correct. Still at Joe Gibbs?

Yes, I am. Actually, just left there about an hour ago. What exactly did you work on today? Walk me through your day. And as people listen to you, let me just remind everyone that this is Chloe Hudson. She applied for and received a work ethic scholarship from the MicroWorks Foundation. Her dreams once upon a time included becoming a plastic surgeon. She pivoted, went in another direction. And now here she is on my computer screen with her incredible eyelashes, her winning smile, and the calluses that can only be earned by a welder who loves what they do. Yeah. Energy, energy, energy, energy, and action. I wish I would have had that energy at 5 o'clock this morning because it was not there. My usual day usually starts around 5, 5.30, depending on the level of glam I intend to do for the day. I usually lean on the side of simplicity so I can get that extra 25 minutes of sleep. Like today, this is simple for me, believe it or not. This look doesn't just happen, right? It doesn't just happen. I need about 15 minutes and patience and a little bit of Jesus,

and we're good to go. That really is morning. Yeah, usually I get up in the morning. I make coffee. That's very important to me. I drink Black Rifle coffee because I am not basic. So no Starbucks for this girl. So I usually get to work around 536, depending on what we've got to do for the day.

I went to the Xfinity shop this morning to work on the Dodge 5500 build we're doing right now for Matt Hagan. He's an NHRA race car driver. He's as the funny cars. And we're building his Dodge for his cattle company as kind of like a brand specific car. There's lots of monocers and badges that are all pertaining to his company. And it's one of those projects that we took on to kind of fill dead space while we're waiting on materials because we were effective. by those supply chain shutdowns. So it is a little bit more difficult for us to get material

and it's definitely not readily available. And material costs have skyrocketed lately if anybody else has noticed, I have, but it's a great way to learn new things. I'm not a mechanic. I might pretend to be sometimes on Instagram, but I am not. Like, if my car is broken,

I graciously ask somebody else for help. So I don't even try and YouTube it or anything. Like that is just not my will. my wheelhouse but we machine some sway bar arm blocks for it to change the angle of the sway bar arm to the joint and I attempted to put those in by myself today and got three quarters of the way done and realized that I needed a 15 millimeter socket and so I gave up because I couldn't find one and I went home so yeah so then what happens tomorrow do we go in search of the right tool do we pick up where we left off that's my plan

for after this today I'm going to run and get myself an impact socket set and make sure they're deep sockets and then we'll go back after it but I was probably myself I got most of it in it's just the angle it's so strange the sway bar arms got to go out and up and I really needed a ratchet strap but ever since I upgraded to an adult car I don't really carry things in my car is the way I used to I used to have a truck that was lifted and I had ratchet straps and tool sets and a big toolbox in the back and it had everything that I needed. And now that I have a pretty car, I don't have any of those things. And it's a pain. The angle of the sway bar is not unlike the angle or the trajectory of your own career. I hope not. It's still going up.

It's still going up. But 10 years ago, could you have ever seen yourself as a welder working at Joe Gibbs Aerospace? No. I mean, I even had imposter syndrome for a little bit. I know that sounds crazy, but I had such a respect for people in this field being welders and the skill that it took, because I understood it, I understood how difficult it was. Coming from an industrial background and having to deal with groups that were welders and understanding the pressures and specifications they had to work towards and really be held to, I always had just this immense amount of respect for it. Not everyone can be a welder. It's like not everybody can be an athlete. Everyone's just different. You've got different propensities for different activities in life. Like, I can't sing, you know, but Mike can sing. There's nothing that's ever going to make me that good. So I really had a healthy respect for welders in the industry, especially in the nuclear industry, because it's all pressure vessel and piping systems, and it holds water that has radioactive properties to it. And, you know, if something fails, it's bad. So when I graduated, and took my first real job as a welder. And that's all that it said on my job description was just welder. Man, it was weird. It was very weird.

I was like, did I really do this? Am I here? Like, it's, it probably took about three years before I was like, no, I'm a welder. Like, this is it. That was doing it every single day, having a stamp, passing inspections. It took a few years before it really sank in. It still hasn't sank in, like, what I do for a living now. And I've been here almost two years.

and it still hasn't really truly sank in yet just how neat what I do for a living is. Is it because what you're doing is so different than what you thought you'd be doing? Or is it in part because, and I'm guessing, but as a welder at Joe Gibbs, you look around, how many other 28, 29-year-old young women are there doing what you're doing? Well, the interesting thing about racing is it comes with an entire. different set of ideals. Age isn't really quite as important as it is in necessarily like roughneck fields like where you're green when you come on site

and it takes years before you truly kind of earned your stripes. And racing, because it's such a family-based sport a lot of times, you've got guys who've been in racing for 20 years and they're 25 because their dad's stuck them in a car since the time they could walk. There's a guy that I work with Jason and he's, you know, He just turned 21 while he took this job and I'm like, you have no idea. You stepped into the upper echelon and take advantage of it. He's a great welder.

That really speaks to how different people take it on differently. And he is incredible at titanium welding. And it's actually one of the ones that I really leaned on to fine-tune what I do and how my B-pattern looks and heat settings and gas settings. And I leaned on him. and he's been in the industry two years, and I've been in this industry 12. And I am still shocked because whenever I did my entrance interview

for the welding program, I wanted to be in aerospace. I wanted either Boeing or Cessna, and there's actually a company that builds bush planes in my hometown, and it was called Jessica Aircraft, and anything that had to do with them, I just wanted to try and do it. And, of course, their shop ran by two. is you're not going to hire somebody, but I learned that later on. So to think that on Joe Gibbs branching

out into aerospace and I was the first welder they hired, I mean, it's still weird to think about it and say it out loud. You look, I've said this to you before, just sitting here listening to you talk. I don't want to sound like your dad, but I'm so proud of you. And I'm so glad that you applied for one of our scholarships because when I started this thing years ago, I mean, I didn't really, I had an idea that people like you walk the earth. I knew it because I came from pretty good stock, but to be able to prove it, to be able to point to you,

like not to turn you into a role model or make you an example, except for the fact that I'm going to turn you into a role model and I'm going to make an example. Oh, gosh, I'm going to try real hard not to cuss. Don't screw it up, Chloe, because we're all counting on you, but I'm just sitting here, listening to you talk. you are with every sentence upending, every stigma, every stereotype, every myth, every misperception,

every big steaming pile of bull crap that keeps people from doing what you're doing. You're living proof that it's not only possible, but it's happening everywhere. And when I saw you last, where were we, Nashville? Yes. So, Chloe is now the subject of a 20-minute documentary produced by Prager University. It's called Trading Up. I am in this documentary as well. And she interviews me in this old warehouse that we found in Nashville.

It was the same feeling then, sitting there talking to you and seeing what you've done with a simple trade. And you're still so young and trying to imagine where this is ultimately going to take you, which is very gratifying for me. But how does this play out for you over the next 15, 20 years? I struggle probably the most in fabrication side of things. I mean, I was very tunnel visioned on being the best welder possible. So that was kind of always my focus, just hands-on application of welding. And one of the beautiful things about taking this job at Joe Gibbs is it's more than just being a good welder. It's my boss dropping off blueprints and parts and it being a flat part that needs to

have angles and directions and holes drilled in it and rolled and that's probably the most exciting thing that I really encountered my career thus far because it's not just metal to metal anymore. You know, it's truly taking something and forming it into what it needs to be. And I'm incredibly lucky that at 28 that I've gotten a job that's now taking me this new direction and this new path. And I'm surrounded by people who've been in this industry, like I said, for a long, long time and they have so much knowledge to kind of allow me to soak in. I'm really happy, you know, like there's something to say for upward trajectory in a career, but there's also something to be said that if my life didn't change for the next five to 10 years,

I'm happy. I'm extremely happy with what I do for a living. And I'm kind of this forever a student. I love reading. I love learning new things. I follow the drag race series now in NHRA and I go to every single race and even learning the combustion side of those things. and Nitro and trying to learn about actual mechanics of an engine. I've always had this inherent need to soak in more information and not be stagnant in that sense. And I want to continue my education. I'd like to get my certified weld inspector and certified weld educator to add a tool to my toolbox,

as you like to say. It's not so much as a complete career change. I don't want to lose the hands-on work because that's what I get so much gratification from. So as long as I keep learning, keep doing stuff, keep building things, I'm happy. I'm good. Let's go back a little bit. There was a time when you were fairly certain that you were going to get into the medical field. And I know there are people listening to this podcast right now who have a notion of a dream in their mind. And sometimes if you hang on to that too tight, you might not hear what the universe is telling you. You might not see other opportunities when they come around.

but I'm curious to know when you affirmatively thought, okay, I'm not getting into the medical field. I'm going to do this instead. Was it a money thing? What did it for you? It was definitely a cold dose of reality when you're in high school and you really don't understand the real-world workings and trappings and how money works and exactly what debt means. That's back when somebody comes in with a career fair and they say you're going to make $40,000. at a job and you're like, oh man, I'm going to be rich. Like, you have no idea.

So let me borrow 100 to get that. Yeah, it's just like, who is 40 grand's not that much when you start out applying to the real world. Luckily, my parents had a business, so I was never handed anything in life. Even when my parents made half a million dollars and we lived in Atlanta and a big nice house and I didn't want for anything, my dad came from nothing and that was my dad's money. That was never my money. I was not rich.

My parents had money. And when my parents were hit by the recession and you kind of go from that high to low and you see what it really means in how you're affected by economy, it changes your perspective on what's important. What your dad do? They sell contract office furniture. They'll get contracts and put furniture in the airport. They're doing the Atlanta airport, the Delta Terminal right now. One of my jobs growing up, and now I know it's child labor and it was wrong. But when I was in fifth grade, I remember when Netflix first came to Atlanta and their headquarters, my parents sold them every rolling office chair for that corporate office building.

And I had to put the casters on and roll every chair to every station before it opened. And I did it for a pair of basketball shoes. And that's bullshit. My parents are partners in that business. And they've done like a lot of colleges, boxes, that kind of thing for sporting arenas. I learned early on that if I wanted anything extra, I got school shoes, I got church shoes. If I played a sport, I got everything I could possibly need for that sport. But if I want anything extra, I had to build literature binders.

I had to go with them to luncheons. I had to help build furniture with my dad. I was very, very lucky that my parents were like that and really kind of instilled those values early on for me. Sure. So I always wanted to work. You know, I never wanted to rely on anybody. I think it kind of came from teen angst to that if I'm,

made my own money. I could do whatever I want with it. I wanted a Jeep and my parents didn't want me to have a Jeep. They wanted me to drive this little ballbow when I was like, mm-mm, not having it. I was a hostess. I did yard work, spread mulch. I mean, it was anything that I could do to get my hands on extra money. That's what I did. So at 18, whenever I left home and I thought I was going to go to school full time and work as a nurse, that was kind of the game plan. And I did my clinicals at the VA in Lexington, Kentucky, and it was a disaster. Is it weird to love people but despise human resources? If so, well, color me weird.

It's not to say I don't respect the millions of people who work in HR departments and companies all over the country. I do. It's just that I don't envy him. That's why MicroWorks doesn't have an HR department for better or worse. And it's also why I use ZipRecruiter whenever we need to expand. ZipRecruiter has proven themselves a million times over by helping countless employers get through the hiring process faster and more effectively than ever before.

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Odds are you'll find a human resource that just happens to be a great fit for your company in 24 hours or less. ZipRecruiter.com slash row. ZipRecruiter.com slash row. way to hire. Why? I could not imagine. The way patients were treated, it was before all those scandalous things came out with lines.

Oh, like Walter Reed and all that stuff. Yes. And I was thrown in the thick of it, and I was like, if this is how it's going to be, this is not at all what I anticipated. This is not helping people. Watching people rot away, and it was a lot of times, you know,

understanding that this care was supposed to be provided for by the taxpayers, and it made me ashamed. It really changed my perspective on the healthcare industry, and it's when Obama was elected into office and tried to cap salaries of physicians, and a lot of these massive healthcare systems, physicians were leaving and starting private practices, and I was like, man, this is too much. I was like, I need to simplify it, and I need to make money now. I took welding my senior year just to have that skill under my belt and to help build my Jeep and be able to contribute. All my guy friends could build the truck or build the Jeep or fix it. None of us could weld.

And we all wanted the $2,000 bumper that no one could afford. So we were like, well, we'll learn how to build it. So that kind of was what drove me to learn how to weld in the first place. When my health care dreams definitely went down the drain, I was like, man, we're going to try this. You know, Scott Hightower says, I'm pretty good. So we're going to go off that and I'm going to go back to school for that. So it really pushed me in that direction. And thank God I went out of my comfort zone in the first place in high school and was like,

I showed up on my first day was canvas shorts and a tank top on to go learn how to weld it. If that tells you anything, I had no concept of what that was. No idea that it would be really hot things around you. No idea. No idea. So you went in blind, basically. Pretty much. You're in welding because you wanted to get the bumper on your own Jeep. Correct.

And you took a class in high school, which, by the way, that's great. How many high schools offer welding classes today? Not many. You know, I don't know. I had to go to Career Center. So I had to go to vocational school. It wasn't even offered on campus where my high school was. High school wasn't the best experience for me.

So being able to kind of really throw myself into a new area, to kind of become an expert in was great for me. And being off campus and having this area to go and lose myself in a task was wonderful. There's a lot of kids who need that. And I was definitely one of them. And man, I tell you, the teachers that were there, they couldn't have gotten a better staff to do what they did.

Scott Hightower was my first cheerleader. I attribute a lot of my success. Every step of the way, for all the pushback that I got, I always had at least one person, pushing forward with me. And that was kind of the beginning of that, was Scott Hightower. And he really instilled confidence in my abilities to kind of make it a career. Was he your instructor? Yes.

What a great name. I know, right? Scott Hightower. Yeah. And he broke horses after school, too. And I was like, this is neat. A welding teacher by day, breaking horses by night. That's awesome.

Tell me about the pushback. You said there was always somebody pulling you forward, but who was pushing you back? Was it specific individuals or was it attitudes? What was it? Unfortunately for me, I kind of made my way into this space. I am by no means a trailblazer. The women of the 40s and 50s did that for me. Women like my grandmother, you know, she worked in a tool factory to earn a living during World War II

and she worked during Great Depression. And those were the trailblazers. I'm not. I'm merely walking that same path and trying to clear it just like a little bit more. When I started, social media really hadn't become a thing yet. When I went to welding school, I never saw anybody like me. There was always the stigma that I had to dress a certain way. I had to wear coveralls.

And women's clothing that was fire retardant did not exist, let alone aside, small. You could not find a small anything. So I was kind of relegated to just cotton hoodies. If I wanted something that fit, I had to go find the smallest men's car heart, anything that I could find. And my first day of welding school in college, I show up in heels and jeans and a little tank top. And they're like, are you lost? And I was like, well, this is welding class, right? And they're like, yeah, are you sure you're here for this?

And I was like, positive. I promise I'm here for it. And I went to the bathroom and changed. And it was the worst decision I ever made because it immediately stamped on my forehead that I am not serious about this. And it was this pushback to femininity, but not being conducive to what. trades mean. There was one other woman who was there and she was a truck driver and she blended in to the rest of class. And you didn't want to blend in. You wanted to preserve your femininity. You wanted to be, right? It's not so much this righteous preservation of femininity.

The thing about it is, I was always both. There was never anyone who ever really commented on me being both. I had two younger brothers and I was extremely competitive. and my dad was very, if you're going to do something, be the best. And it didn't matter if it was sports. It didn't matter if it was sports. It didn't matter if you were an artist. Like, you're going to be the best. Like, we're going to give you the tools.

You're going to use them. And even when I played softball, I never practiced softball with my brothers or practice baseball. And because I practiced baseball, it made hitting a softball beach ball. Because I played and made sure I played at a different level to make myself better than everybody else. You know, I always had guy friends. I was the one girl in a group of three guys. and we would wakeboard and build jeeps and play tag with BB guns. Like, it just had never occurred to me that.

Yeah, that was stupid. No, we did that too. That's a great game. I've been there. That's great. My first experience with welding was wearing a welding shield while we were having our BB gun battles. Because we weren't crazy stupid. We didn't want to shoot an eye out.

But we were shooting each other with BB guns. We were stupid. Just normal stupid. We were extra stupid. We played in the woods on a mountain side with a gully in the middle. And my brother would sit up on the ledge of our porch and shoot down on us while we were playing. It was terrible. We were stupid.

But it was fun. I mean, I was shocked. I'll be honest. When someone looked at me and said, you can't do something because of just outward appearance. I was shocked. It had never really occurred to me. I played basketball and I'm a pretty big girl. Even my guy friends always wanted me on defense.

because I could box out really well. Stuff like that, it never really dawns on you that someone wouldn't think you're capable or you're incompetent. It was such a foreign concept to me because I had never really been exposed to it. And in college, it was the first time I had someone sit me down and say, are you sure you want to do this? Why can't you just be someone's wife? And I mean, those are words that came from an instructor.

Like, you could be a cheerleader. Seriously. I remember getting called into the office. and him sitting across from me, and it was supposed to discuss next semester's classes. And he's like, are you really serious about doing this? And I was like, well, yeah. He's like, well, you know, you could just be someone's wife. Like, they'd take you.

And I was like, it just never really registered as like, that's an option for people. And then he asked me, I was like, well, if you don't want to do that, if you're not dating anybody, he's like, why don't you try and be a cheerleader or something? And I was like, man. Hold on. You are seriously, this is a guidance counselor. and you're in high school. No, that's college.

This was college. You're in college. Okay, so you finally get to college. Yeah. The place where you're supposed to be reminded of all that's possible, right? Correct. In a really general way, beyond the education. College for me, the community college I went to and a university later,

it was good for me because at every turn I was reminded that I could try anything. And so I took a lot of different courses and a lot of different areas. I don't know what's happened, but in a general sense, that seems to have started to vanish a little bit. And it's so interesting hearing you talk about your folks, because it sounds like in every way it's meaningful, what they drilled into your head was anything really is possible. Correct. And you get into a college, and one of the first messages you get is, no, you don't look like a welder. So what are you even doing down there?

Right. Well, and the irony kind of comes from, too. Like, my dad was in a very similar circumstance. He played baseball. And to get a full-ride scholarship, he had to get his degree in interior design. And mind you, this is the most masculine man I've ever seen in my life. This is my hero. Let's not make it weird, Chloe.

This is your dad we're talking about. And his degree is an interior design. Who would have thought it? Oh, that's awesome. We flipped it on its head a little bit. here, but I guess that's kind of where I got it from maybe. Just this... I'd say so. A guy that looks like him, the interior design, a woman who looks like you, welding titanium, a guy who a lot of people know from crawling through sewers and hosting a show called

Dirty Jobs got to start in the opera. It's very hard for people today to deal, it seems, with any level of cognitive dissonance. I'm going to shift gears a little bit because part of the reason I wanted to have you on was to talk about this guy who this podcast is dedicated to, Jake Maynard. Did Chuck send you the article that he wrote in the New Republic? Okay. Yeah. So I don't want to pick on Jake. There are a thousand guys like Jake who struggle every day to make sense of a thing that doesn't line up the way their brains expect to see it. This guidance counselor. Yeah, he needs to work with his hands for a season or so. Well, this is the funny thing. He writes in his article that he used to be a commercial fisherman, and I'll take him at his word.

He probably has real experience out there in the wide world of work. But he called my sweat pledge bonkers, and he hurt my feelings. That's the only time. People have said all kinds of things about me over there. I don't care. In fact, I welcome the criticism, and I encourage the conversation. But the sweat pledge really offended him. And he literally described it as completely bonkers.

This is a guy who has worked with his hands. This is a guy who's been out in the world. And so I wanted to talk to you, A, just about your general feelings on the sweat pledge, because you had to sign one in order to apply for a scholarship from MicroWorks. And you did sign it. So I thought with Chuck's help, we could just kind of go through it a little bit. and the listener could determine for themselves whether or not your bonkers for signing it, and maybe what in there exactly is so hairbrained?

I guess it just, yay, commercial fishing, but did he pour coffee for everybody who actually did the fishing? So, but then just claims it. That's the kind of thing that bothers me. I don't know. I just don't believe it. Like, I don't know how you say anything that's based and rooted in hard work could ever be bonkers. So, you know, the idea is they're not out there. To me, having somebody else write a hit piece essentially saying that anything that's hardworking and this whole entire country is built off the backs of tradespeople.

You as a fisherman who understands the value of what you bring to the table by feeding others for you to say that tells me that you probably weren't the person who was actually out on that deck's wedding and using your hands. I don't know. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. I don't think he's really willing or capable of looking at work broadly. I think he can only see it as a binary choice. You're either an employee or an employer. And if you're an employee, you're probably a victim. And if you're an employer, you're probably a rapacious capitalist who is taking advantage. An oppressor. And so if that's your worldview, right, then you're basically playing, let's make a deal with only two doors.

It can only be this or that. It's very difficult to explain to a guy like that, that a show like Dirty Jobs and a foundation like this one, I'm not opposed to the conversation about improving conditions for workers. Of course not. But the larger conversation has to be about growing some level of universal gratitude for the kind of work that's going on at Joe Gibbs right now. And for the kind of work that Jake Maynard was doing on whatever fish boat he was working on. That's what's for sale. I just want to tell those people, you know, it's like China's really nice this time of year.

Like, go check it out. I just can't relate. The beauty of this country is freedom, is capitalistic freedom. It is competition. It's a perfect example is, yeah, you could sell out. You know, NASCAR next year is going to an X-Jing car, and it's a kit car. So it goes to just drive our ability. Well, you know, doing that, evening the playing field cost Joe Gibbs, gives 150 jobs.

So 150 fabricators, you're going from 15 welders on sub well to two. There's the cost of your equality right there. You're taking the fun out of competitive edge. And it's something that's directly affected me and my place of work recently. It's no different than us not being self-sufficient with energy in raw materials. Now it's affected my livelihood because you want to buy based off of just price from one country because it makes us look better as a country on a global scale. Get out of here.

I'd rather, you know, manufacture steel here and pay a little bit more for it and not have to worry about anybody else. Because then in a capitalist market, now we've got different mills offering different grades of steals and then it drives a price down. I mean, that's capitalism. That's how it works. If you don't want to work for Amazon, don't work for Amazon. Go somewhere else because there's other manufacturing plants or distribution plants in the United States. But I don't know. I think you kind of do know, Chloe. I think you might have an opinion.

If only you had some strong feelings about it, you're going to give me on my soapbox. I don't know, Chuck. I think if we could get her out of the show. Back up for a second. Because what you're talking about, this is part of what I tried to articulate in my response to Jake, you're talking about unintended consequences. So NASCAR looks across the landscape and says, wait a second, if we do a kit car, which basically means everybody's driving the exact same car built to the exact same specs, right?

Correct. That's what that means. Okay. The desire in building a kit car is to make an environment where the driver's skill is the only mitigating factor that determines victory. Correct. It all sounds good so far in a world where you're trying to only evaluate one thing, the driver's skill. But what about the pit crew? What about the fabricators? You're saying, in a broad sense, I think, that the unintended consequences of doing that thing translate directly into hundreds of lost jobs. And stifles innovation. Now you've created a circumstance where is there no progress other than what's based on the manufacturers who build the parts for those kit cars? What if they're fine with what they create? This is going to be stagnant same car for the next 25 years. Who wants to watch that race? You know, it's like you watch one race, you watch them all. Have you ever been to a horse

race? Yes. My whole family is from Lexington, Kentucky. So yes. Oh, okay. That's the first place of gambled. So your thoughts on handicapping? I don't know enough about horse racing, man. So it's like on the one hand, when you put extra weight on the back of a horse because that horse runs faster than another horse, well, you're trying to make a kit car out of a horse. It's like a handicap with golf. People are always trying to. to level the playing field in order to make things more fair or more interesting, perhaps, to watch. But again, with the unintended consequences, Secretariat was the greatest racehorse, maybe with the exception of citation or man of war,

to ever run and win. But when they won, they were carrying more weight on them than the other horses. So how is that fair? What are we doing? There's no such thing as equality. And I think when people understand that, and when you recognize it because you have no choice but to, look, I can weld with the best of them, but I can't go pick up 150 pounds freely. So does that make me any less of a welder? Well, no, but it means that I can't go pick up raw materials without innovation on my part, having a jack, making sure I bring a cart with me.

But that's how you learn in life is problem solving those areas where you aren't as good will make you better all around when you figure out how to close that gap. There's been plenty of times where I've had to go and work on equipment or build this piece and it's with one inch plate steel and I've got to figure out a way to get it up on the saw to cut it to cut it down to size. And it's because I'm not equal to a man. I'm not equal to the man that works with me. But I figured it out.

You get your overhead crane cert. You get a jack stand. You jack something up. You figure out how to wedge underneath it. You do it. And I got it done. This utopian idea of equality is such a farce. It's so just dreamland and it doesn't exist.

The utopia doesn't exist, but the idea exists. I'm trying to give Jake and his side as much credit as I can. I think the intentions are good. Look, if life is a race, we're all not starting from the same part. And you're saying that's just a fact of life. Some people are born smarter. Some people are prettier. Some people are the right color, the wrong color, whatever.

We get the cards we get and we have to play them. And the desire to make all things equal is rooted, I think, in basic fairness. But the reality of doing that gets kind of squishy. Chuck, what's the first tenant on the Sweat Pledge? It is. I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all. time. I am alive. I walk the earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful. Chloe, is that bonkers? No, not at all. Anything about it? You take exception to? Anything?

No. Not at all. It's almost what I wish kids would tell themselves every morning before they would school. If you start your day with a grateful heart, you're hard pressed to be upset about much throughout your day. Yeah. Chuck, what's the second tenant there on a sweat pledge? I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that happiness and the pursuit of happiness are not the same thing. Hmm. Chloe, is that bonkers?

No. No problems with it. You're okay with it? I'm 100% okay with it. What has been the most gratifying thing that you have pursued so far in your young life? not necessarily attained, but pursued. Confidence, because that is something I had to work a long time for. It comes with time.

But when somebody who has been in this industry trusts my work, and they bring me parts that they need done, and they are confident in my abilities because of the way that I'm confident in my abilities, that they will hand that off to me with the idea that some could pass it off as theirs. That's kind of an infinite level of trust, especially when you're in my industry where, you know, lives are on the line. If something of mine fails, it could impact somebody's, you know, life. And that's got to be it. Yeah.

That's awesome. Chuck, what's a third tenant there on a sweatpludge? My guest today, Tom, my guest today, Tom, Albinis, is a third tenant. an American Giant, and I'll tell you why. Tom understands on a fundamental level that the business of mining is a non-negotiable prerequisite of our civilization and our economic independence, just like the business of making things. American Giant knows this, which is why they committed themselves 16 years ago to make all their excellent clothing right here in this country. It wasn't easy, but they did it. They sourced locally grown. own cotton. And they built factories in towns across the nation where they could hire hardworking

locals who cared about making a quality product. And then they went about the business of gently reminding people that when you buy a piece of clothing from American giant, you're not just buying a high quality sweatshirt or t-shirt or another pair of jeans. You're investing in a local supply chain. You're supporting communities from the Carolinas to California. And you're getting a piece of clothing that won't just survive the wash, you're getting a garment that'll get better with age. Check out their high-quality staples, hoodies, teas, denim, built to be worn year after year at American-giant.com slash mike. It's quality you can feel and a true American success story that you can be proud to support.

Use code Mike. Get 20% off your order at American-giant.com slash Mike. American Giant, American. Made, American Giant, American Made. Number three, I believe there is no such thing as a bad job. I believe that all jobs are opportunities, and it's up to me to make the best of them. About bonkers, Chloe? No, because I've had some crappy jobs.

I'm thankful for them. Because you know what it does? Oh, man, there's two. So I worked for a Kone Nuclear Station, and I was in the maintenance department, and there's a job where we to go to a running turban and we had to abate paint off of bolts. So it was 145 degrees. I had to wear an ice vest and a respirator and poor sludge on bolts until the paint came off and had to rub it with a dang wire brush.

And it took a while. Awesome. And so that sucked. What were you paid when you were doing that? Oh, I think it was $14 an hour when I did not. It was a great money. I understood it was a stepping stone. The second thing I had to do in the turbine building was there was an oil pump leak,

and it was concrete dams around it, and I had to get underneath there, because I was the only one who could fit underneath it, and I had to use my arms to scoop sludge to the edge to the concrete dam, so they could suck it out, and I could clean underneath there. So after doing that, I sure am grateful for my nice cushy job. that I have now. Would you call either one of those things, getting the gunk off of a bolt

in a 145 degree environment and pushing the sludge out of the way are either of those bad jobs in your mind? No. No, there's just jobs that need be done. Chuck, what's the next tenant there on the sweat? Number four, I do not follow my passion. I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion

and enthusiasm. Bonkers, Chloe. Were you enthusiastic when you were pushing the sludge out of the way? Well, you got to have a sense of humor about it, to make your day a little bit better. Enthusiasm definitely makes it a lot easier because wallowing in pessimism does nothing to help. You know, it goes back to attitude.

I know Jake is going to hate all this. I should have put something about humor in the sweat pledge because it was such a big part of dirty jobs. And it's a big part of his criticism of me. He's saying, look, Dirty Jobs is not looking at the drudgery, the pain, the agony of those conditions. We're not accentuating the adversity. Instead, we seem to be focused on something frivolous. But there's nothing frivolous about humor.

There's nothing frivolous about being in on the joke and making the best of whatever the situation is. That's another reason why we love you at Microworks, because you just small. while through it all. If I had a piece of advice for any woman who wants to be a part of a crew of guys, dirty jokes all day long. You find the dirtiest joke that you could tell somebody to make them blush, you're in. That's all it takes. You know, Chloe, I remember something that you said to Mike when you guys did that People You Should Know video where you said, I'm not trying to be the best female welder around. I'm going to be the best welder. You made it about competing with everybody else irrespective of one sex. And I thought that was really, really good. Well, and this is not much

competition when I'm the only girl there out of the 500 dudes. What's the fun in the age? Chuck, I was just thinking about something she said earlier in this conversation, which was she starts a day around 5 a.m., got to have the coffee, leave a little time for Jesus. Now, this is the same woman who just told me the key to success with working with men is to tell the dirtiest joke you can. And dirties. It's being well-rounded, multifaceted human being. Amen, sister, preach. Chuck, what's the next tenant there on the old sweat pledge?

This is a good one. Number five, I deplore debt and do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans than borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can't afford. And you say there's no humor. Well, you know what? I wasn't joking when I wrote it, but I did feel like we needed to lighten things up a little bit. And the notion of eating beans in a tent resonated with me. Bonkers at all, Chloe?

No, no. What role did money play? And forgive me for asking, but what are they paying you now a year, more or less? How are you doing? Probably a six-figure mark, but it's entirely dependent on overtime. Before I took this job when I was working six days a week, six figures all day long. Easily $3,000 a week, but I worked for my money. I had to work day in, day out, and I had to work.

those goals. I wanted to make that kind of money and I did. And now I make close to that. I have my own house, live by myself, I have my own car. I pay all my bills and I don't stress about anything. I don't have student debt. I don't have something with crazy interest that's looming over me that I'm not able to outrun even past retirement. I don't have any of that. That's definitely the beauty and trades. You can work as much as you want and make as much as you want. That's how high in demand we are. That's awesome. How far down the road did you get when you were thinking about a career in medicine? Plastic surgery, I think, right? Was where at one point you were looking at. Yes. What was the debt associated with that pursuit? You remember?

God, I wanted to go to UK and an out-of-state student was $42,000 a year with no scholarship, nothing and luckily I had family that lived in Lexington and I could live with them and people forget that's the base price when you see these prices online for school that's not books that's not housing that's not food so the loans you have to take on that is compounded on top of just that education is astronomical and luckily I understood a value of a dollar I understood how long it took me to make the $1,600 that I paid for my first Jeep, I knew how long it took me to make that money. And the idea that I was going to put a time scale on 40 grand plus, it scared me. I didn't want that. Where did you learn that from the value of money? Your parents?

My parents, like I said, got hit by the recession. Unfortunately, expensive furniture is kind of the first budget cut whenever it comes to these institutions. And I had to give up. playing volleyball my senior year travel volleyball I had to give that up so my little brother could play travel baseball and he was a better baseball player than I was a volleyball player and it kind of was my first realization of how important money was it wasn't about you know making an extra hundred dollars a little here in there for gas money it was my first taste of reality and the kind of choices my parents had to make because of the economy changing from then on

I never asked my parents for anything again I never wanted to be reliant on anybody. No one's ever paid my rent. No one's ever paid my car payment. No one's ever paid anything for me. I never wanted to burden my parents. You know, I never wanted my brothers to have to choose between what they wanted to do or for me to get what I wanted.

It kind of flipped a switch in my mind that I will take care of me and I'll take care of me for the rest of my life and I'll never have to ask anybody else for anything. Isn't it funny how that attitude can be so completely empowering to some and so completely threatening to others. That old proverb, if you take two sons of an alcoholic and one's a millionaire and one's a homeless and you ask them the question of how they are to be where they are today and they both say because my dad was an alcoholic, there's no equality of outcome. I've had to do a lot. Yeah, I'm very enthusiastic about my trade and I'm super happy,

but it doesn't come easy and sometimes I feel like I might do a disservice. to women coming in this industry because there's times where I've had to go to a job site and had a gun on my ankle because I've been threatened and I have been put in positions where somebody has followed me home and knew where I lived and there's been times where I've taken a job 15 hours away from home and you got to sleep in your truck for a couple days so you can afford that hotel room for a week next week when you get your premium check people don't realize that it's not always easy but I knew what I wanted to do and I was willing to take those steps even if they weren't glamorous, even if it wasn't great, even if it meant living in a studio apartment

that you barely fit a mattress in. But I was willing to do it to not have debt, to have success in the trade that I wanted to have success in, and I wouldn't change any of it, because I have attained what I wanted to. Here's the other thing that strikes me, too. Your dad, again, is worth mentioning because, Chuck, how many dads would let their beautiful daughter strap a gun to their ankle, travel 15 hours from home and sleep in a truck, if they were able... Well, I didn't tell him, Matt. Well, guess what? He knows now.

Surely your dad knew that you were out there struggling, scraping, working hard. No, the struggle is real, but the struggle is real. And here, my dad told me something a long time ago. I'm going to try not to be upset. But I was the one kid he never worried about. Why would that upset you? And that makes me more proud. I just, because I've always wanted to make him proud.

And just, he has a lot to worry about. He took care of my family through everything. And he's the kind of guy's like, where's the same pair of jeans for 25 years, just so you could have whatever you wanted. He was diagnosed with cancer and didn't get treatment because he didn't want to pay for it so that my family can be afforded a life

that they were used to. So when he was proud of me, and I was like one thing off of his mind, man, that's life-changing. It's very important to me to have that kind of respect for my dad. Do you believe this kid, Chuck, seriously? I mean, you are the daughter

that men dream of having. You're the child that parents hope for. This little sweat pledge we're going through here was preceded several centuries by another list of ideas and beliefs put together and dragged down off a mountain. I think it was Sinai. And somewhere on that list was something along the lines of honor, thy father and mother. Yeah.

And you know what? 100%. I'm not a very religious guy, but those commandments, they got some pretty good press. Maybe they're bonkers too. But not killing seems like a pretty good. good thing. Not stealing. It seems like a good deal of me.

It seems pretty good. But honoring your father and mother. You've done that in spades. All right. Chuck, what's the next one? Number six, which is, I believe that my safety is my responsibility. I understand that being in compliance does not necessarily mean I'm out of danger. You okay with that, Chloe?

Oh, boy. I use the safety squints a lot. That's probably the number one comment I get on Instagram is my lack of safety. for myself. I am terrible about it. I hate wearing gloves. I hate wearing safety glasses. It's a level of risk I take on. So like one day we might interview you and you'll have a patch over one eye or something? I was trying to best not let it happen. This is probably the most controversial thing on here. And not to put words in Jake Maynard's mouth, but that strikes people as bonkers because it strikes them as cavalier. Everybody wants to go home in one piece.

We all know that. 100%. The question is, whose responsibility is it? And it's kind of a trick question because there's probably not just one answer, right? I'm sure at Joe Gibbs, there's a long list of protocols. You've probably got lockout, tagouts, you've probably got confined space training. You've probably got all that stuff. And I'm glad for it.

What do they tell you over there? Do they say that your safety is our responsibility? or do they say in the end it's on you? So be careful. Well, this is the thing. You're always going to be supplied with the tools to be safe, whether that be safety glasses, face shields, gloves. Luckily here, we don't do any kind of confined space. We're not on the heavy lift side of things. Definitely when I worked in the energy sector, those things were extremely prevalent in 15 minutes was dedicated every morning to just safety protocols and precautions for the day. From the time that I was 18, that has been hammered into my head is watch out for your brother

is another one. You know, so if you're working with somebody, your safety is your responsibility, but you're going to watch out for your brother too. So I guess it's second nature to me. I mean, it got to the point where the indoctrination of safety was so heavy in my mind. I would go hiking and if there was a stick, you know, sticking up out of the ground, I'd spend 15 minutes trying to get rid of that thing. So somebody else wouldn't trip over it. I agree that if you're given the tools to be safe, it's your responsibility. You can't mitigate every risk in every factor

because sometimes stuff happens. But if I choose safety squints over safety glasses, that's my problem, not my employer's problem. And explain what that means exactly. What is the safety squint? Is you just squinting your eyes? You just squint. For the listeners, she's just squinting. I just need to take off a little bit of this paint right here so I can weld. Now, let me ask you, do those lashes help or hinder in the safety department with the squint? If I am grinding overhead, they help because they keep things from falling into my eyes. But wearing safety glasses, I get a lot of contact from the inside. No wonder you pick the squint.

Yeah. Big round ones or something. I think we can agree that it would be bonkers to take safety cavalierly or to not use the tools provided. But I don't think it's bonkers to say that this is not an either-or situation. It's not just up to the employer. It's not just up to the employee. The employer has an obligation.

The employee has a measure of personal responsibility. I don't think it's bad advice to do. tell an employee, look, in the end, it's on you because it is you. It's your risk. Right. You must be this tall to get on the ride. And you are. So hang on. You made the point really well, Chloe, when you said that they've provided you with the glasses, but it's up to you to use them. Right. You're the last line of defense when it comes to safety. You have to be. Right. The other day, I completely split my finger open from here to here, and it was because I wasn't wearing gloves when I was hammering a piece in a place. I dutifully went over, put a band-aid on it, put in my pocket, and I went home.

Right. Because that was my fault. It's nobody's responsibility to cater to me whenever I did something stupid, something you need to be hammering in place that was hanging, and I just went and got my hammer and was beaten on it and missed and busted my finger open, and I super glued it to the other and came back to work the next day. Rub a little dirt on it. You'll be fine, kiddo. Chuck, where are we? Number seven. Number seven, I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to show up early, stay late,

and cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is. Bonkers? No. When's the last time you cheerfully volunteered for a crappy task? Probably last week. What was the task? We had to do overhead welds. boxes for this truck we're building the toolboxes on it and the process that we were using is very

spark heavy and when you weld overhead lots of fireballs come down and I was like man I'll do it because I want to weld so I burnt my hair up and I got some lovely holes and nice shirts a couple of scars on my stomach right now but we're going to make it's fine you want to see my scar I got a welding burn a few months ago in a tugboat. I was down in Alabama and I was upside down. Let me show you this thing. I think it's going to. It's a nasty one.

I was visiting him not long after this and saw it. It looks like somebody took a divot out of his shin. I mean, that's six months old now, and it's finally healing up a little bit. I got one. Let's see it. Oh, nice. Look at you, Rosie the Riveter. Wow.

Oh, that's a good one. That one's a couple weeks old. This thing, what was it? actually ironically it was the nozzle of the gun and I told Lincoln Electric since they sponsor me if I got Lincoln Electric tattooed underneath could I get a bonus or something what they say he just lost so I guess he was in the news me yeah we'll get back to you on that one yeah this thing hurts so bad but it was over so fast the doctor told me later I had car hearts on right but I wasn't wearing leathers yeah and I was upside down I was cutting and it just a big

old piece fell on it and went straight through And for a second, I thought I was going to pass out. It was like that hot. And then it wasn't so bad. And the doctor was like, well, it's because you can cauterize your nerves, dummy. It literally burned through to my shin bone. It was bad and then it was over. I burned my face one time, a hot piece of pipe and I burnt my entire cheek and it peeled off like a pizza slice.

That's fine. Time heals all wounds, right? For Jake's sake, I sure hope so. What else you got there, Chuck? Number eight. This is one we invoke all the time at the office. I believe the most annoying sounds in the world are whining and complaining. I will never make them. If I am unhappy in my work, I will either find a new job or find a way to be happy. I would hazard to say that Jake would find that bonkers because he would immediately imagine a situation where a worker

is either in a dangerous environment or being treated unfairly. And in such a case, that person should be free to speak up to protect him or herself and the people around him. I think that goes without saying. But back to the default position, if you're coming from a place where you think that's not happening, obviously it needs to be corrected. But by and large, in terms of advice, when did whining and complaining ever help anyone, Chloe? Long before she was Peggy Roe, my mom was Peggy Noble, daughter of Carl and Thelma Noble. It was her father, Carl, who inspired me to pitch a show called Dirty Jobs to the Discovery Channel and later start a foundation that honored the kind of work Carl Noble did for a living, trade work,

skilled labor. That foundation is called MicroWorks, and today I'm proud to tell you that we've helped thousands of people get the training they need to begin a career in the skilled trades. In fact, we'd love to help you. You can apply for a work ethic scholarship right now at microwworks.org. We've set aside $10 million for this year's applicants. Thanks to a number of very effective fundraisers, including the one with my grandfather's name on the label. I refer, of course, to Noble Tennessee Whiskey, K-N-O-B-E-L,

which is now available in a variety of delicious mash bills, all of which you can peruse at Noble Spirits, In fact, if you spend $100 and use code Carl, C-A-R-L, you'll get one tube of orange bitter-infused sugar cubes for free. That's code Carl with a C to get nine sugar cubes, ingeniously engineered to make nine perfect old-fashions every time. It's my favorite way to support Microworks and my favorite whiskey to sip responsibly after a long day of interviewing people on this podcast.

Pick up a bottle at Noble. Spirits.com. K-N-O-B-E-L-Spirits.com. Soon may the nobleman come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. Never. And I run into it a lot. There's a lot of whining, a lot of complaining. I get a totally different perspective on that as well.

I just treat people the way I want to be treated. Usually if I have something to whine or complain about, I just do what I need to do to fix it. And I just don't say anything. Part of the reason I wrote that, Chuck, I don't think I told you this. An old girlfriend said something to me one time. I was complaining about a relatively insignificant thing. And she said, you know, Mike, I don't find that attractive. And I was really into this girl.

I had never been insulted like that before. I mean, it was so true. She's like, I'm listening to you. and I'm watching you do this. And I don't find you attractive. This is hilarious. Because my boyfriend right now is something along those lines like last week. Really? Tell me.

Ironically enough, I was complaining about people complaining about me. And how difficult it was. And like, I'm sick of trying to prove myself for these people. And what else could I possibly do? And I'm on the phone. My boyfriend. And he was like, could you just get over it? If you don't want to do this job, do something else.

He's like, other than that, he's like, get over it and just do better. And I was like, what can you say? People always ask me, you know, what's the best advice you ever got? The better question is, what's the best advice I ever took? The answer doesn't have as much to do with the actual advice as it does from the person who gave it to me. And so when your boyfriend tells you something like that, it's either going to end the relationship or you're going to take the advice, right? Because of the source.

You have to consider the source. Some of the best advice in the world is ignored by the vast majority of people because it's either coming from a guidance counselor or a politician, somebody else's parents, somebody who has no standing, somebody has no credibility. That's Jake's problem with me. I got no standing. I got no credibility. I don't see the world the way he does.

Consequently, if I say something he might actually agree with, He's going to have a very hard time. He has a very hard time with the fact that the MicroWorks Foundation is helping people like you because you are a threat to his worldview. You are a person who elected to get into manual labor. You elected to learn a skill. You were willing to sacrifice all kinds of stuff. And now here you sit making six figures with no debt with this incredible attitude.

and that makes people really anxious for a lot of reasons. Next time they walk into a building or crawl into an airplane or use a public road, I would like to remind them that they need to thank somebody like me. She's absolutely killed this. It's unbelievable. Where are we? Number nine? Number nine, I believe that my education is my responsibility and absolutely critical to my success.

I am resolved to learn as much as I can from whatever source is available to me. I will never stop learning and understand that library cards are free. Yes. Good. I agree. Yeah. You said that earlier that you're always learning something new. You're constantly challenging yourself.

You be friend, the guy that's been there the longest, the grumpiest, oldest, quietest man. You be his friend. You get him to open up to you. You learn everything. You weren't around when I was in college. But this thing didn't exist. This cell phone did not exist. This internet hookup did not exist.

We have access now, you and me, to 99% of all the known information in the world. You can watch a free lecture from Brown or Princeton or MIT. Like right now, I don't think it's bonkers. Or Prager You. Or Prager You. You can do that too. Oh, God, Jake is going to love Prager You. Because we do need to talk about trading.

up before we wrap this up, the documentary she's in. 10? Number 10, I believe that I am a product of my choices, not my circumstances. I will never blame anyone for my shortcomings or the challenges I face, and I will never accept the credit for something I didn't do. Correct. I think it's correct. He thinks it's bonkers.

And... Not bonkers. Well, why would anybody really disagree with that? Because a lot of people believe that you are entire. defined by your circumstances rather than the choices you make and that it's like it's not your fault. You were born without a dad or whatever. Insert disability here. And so therefore I'm entitled. It is something. All you have to do is spend 10 minutes with Travis Mills to know that it's really about your attitude. And if you can have a sense of humor without any arms or legs,

you're a guy I want to know. Jake said that at base, the sweat pledge is not only bonkers, but it can be kind of reduced to one sentence, which is suck it up, Buttercup. That's great, too. That's not bad. You should start saying that. Yeah, tell them to make T-shirts.

They'll sell out. Number 13. And I guess maybe, too, that if you take the sweat pledge as nothing but what it is, if you think that's the only thing Mike has ever said, that's the only thing the foundation represents, that's the only place from which we come,

then you could conclude that there's a certain, lack of empathy. I think I'm fairly empathetic. I mean, the whole purpose for writing this out was to challenge people to sign it. And those who didn't want to, that's okay too. It's just this particular pile of free money might not be for you. Yeah, I mean, what's more empathetic than providing scholarship for those who don't have the means to educate themselves? Unless he's got the, you know, emotional depth of a puddle, then maybe he should read into a little bit more. I think we just got our title. The emotional depth of a puddle. Chuck, jot that down as you read number

alone. Nobody ever improves themselves by blaming someone else. The only way to improve oneself is to look at oneself. So there's two kinds of people I think in the world. The kind of person who trips and falls and says, hey, whose fault is that that I just tripped and falled? The other type of person who trips and falls and says, what could I have done better not to have tripped and falled? And the person who asks themselves that question, what could I have done differently? What could I have done better stands a better chance of succeeding, in my opinion, than the person who looks the other way. 100%. And the person who asked the person next to him who didn't fall, how come you didn't?

That's even better. Yes. Yes. Or the person who says, excuse me, but is it tripped and falled or tripped and fallen? That's the guy you want to hit in the throat. Fallen felt? Triptin. I think you may have said tripped and fall. And fall. And is that right? Did I think you did? I think you said, I mean, I was going to be that guy. I know.

I'm only pointing it out because a million people are listening to this thing going, maybe Chuck should access that free library card, get himself some basic grammar books and see what happens. Yesterday, I couldn't spell producer. Now I are R1. Number 12. No, we got to get number 11 first. Sorry.

Okay, 11. I understand the world is not fair. I'm okay with that. I do not resent the success of us. others. 100%. I applaud success of others. 100%. I think I said this in a previous episode, Mike, your success in my mind, me being your friend. There was never a time where I was like, dang, that Mike Roe. It was always like, that I'm so glad that my buddy has got a hit show. Yeah, you're like, this is sick. Like, I can tell people. It feels good for me. Yes. Yeah. I wish I could say the same

I remember feeling not about you. I'm happy for every success you have. There were times, and I wrote this in my response to Jake, too, but selling dirty jobs was hard. It was really hard. Yeah. Everybody said no, from PBS to Comedy Central. I took that thing everywhere.

I cold-called dozens of network executives. I wrote up a treatment. I shot a sizzle reel myself. I got my friends at Evening Magazine to shoot. the pilot. It was hard. It was really hard to sell that show. And Jake is very disappointed in the show because it's not the show he wants. He wants it to take a deeper dive. He wants it to be something it wasn't. And so with respect, I suggested that he go pitch a show. Give it a try. It's hard. You'll probably fail, but at least you'll try. And Chuck, it was in the midst of doing that, I remember.

I think I was talking to you. And I was looking at Rico's career. He's a friend of ours, who's been on this podcast. And Chuck and I have known him for years. But Rico was just crushing it, knocking it out of the park, a series regular, working every week. The guy's turning down work that I was dreaming of getting. When you're at that point in your life, it really is hard not to envy your more successful friends.

It's really, really hard. It's natural. Envy is natural. Jealousy is natural. resentment is natural. Blaming others is natural. Whining is natural. Everything in this bonkers sweat pledge

is an attempt to do something or to make a case for something unnatural. I don't know how else to say it. People always say, man, hey, look, it's just natural. As if it's good. No, lightning is natural. Shark bites are natural.

Welding accidents are natural. Shitting is natural. Just don't do it in the street. It's not to do it with your pants on. We have to be trained in a thousand different ways. We spend the first two years of our life shitting our pants and taking something. If we see we want something from our brother or sister, we just take it. We're hardwired.

We're not born good. We're born wrecked, greedy, dependent. That's how we come into the world. How in the world do we ever get better? How do we do that? With luck, we get a dad like mine or yours. We get role models. We get examples. And then we go out and do something bonkers. And then you find your own success and recognize the path that it took to get there. And you start thinking, man, do I want to take the path of that person had to take to get to where they are?

Usually my answer is no. Cautionary tales. You're right. Look around. Take the temperature of the room. Learn from others. What's the last one, Chuck? I believe that all people are created equal. I also believe that all people make choices. Some choose to be lazy. Some choose to sleep in. I choose to work my butt off.

Bonkers? Just so you know, everybody. Floy's shaking her head. No, it's not bonkers. No, it's not bonkers. I don't think so. I know it's hard to hear. And really, listening to you read these,

I understand the other side. I get why it feels like a challenge. It's supposed to be. I don't want to help people who don't agree with this. I don't wish them any ill, but we work hard to raise the money we raise at this foundation. And I'll compliment you again, Chloe. And I know I'm speaking for Chuck, too. You're who we're looking for.

Indeed. That makes me very proud to represent why you guys stand for. And you do. It makes me proud to watch this documentary again. It's called Trading Up. It stars Chloe Hudson. It's so weird. It's so weird. I know. So weird. I know.

I watched it and I was like, that's really me. What did you think of it? I watched it like this the first time and I was like, oh God. Oh, God. Look at that fly away. My own worst critic. It took a few moms messaging me and being like, I really appreciate what you did, what you represent. There was one in particular that really strong. a nerve with me and this woman messaged me and she said, we just watched your documentary. She's like, I watched it with my 10-year-old daughter and I really intended just to send it to my husband and my son, but we ended up watching it too. And she said, it never dawned on me that my daughter could be a welder. And she said, I come from a line of iron workers.

Now she has kind of delved into it with her daughter and started watching. They just came out with a Netflix series about metalworking and I told her to watch it and they binged it. And she was like, man, this is just a whole different avenue. That's not being a doctor. That's not being a lawyer. That's not being what sounds good on paper that can still make you good money. And she was like, I can't believe that I didn't even consider it from my daughter. That it immediately defaulted to my son.

And she thanked me for kind of having that voice. It's possible for anyone who wants to do it. So that was when it really sank in that I didn't look like a doofist. I looked kind of cool. The whole experience was great. And I'm not an actress. I am a welder. Like, that is what I do for a living.

And the experience is something I wouldn't trade for anything because I don't know how y'all do this all the time. I remember speaking eloquently at all times. We don't do it very well. We try. Clearly, I didn't do it well earlier when I felt. Sometimes you tripped and fall. When I fall down real hard. I hurt my head.

You don't need advice, especially for me, but don't rule anything out. You don't know what this documentary will lead to, and maybe you'll be welding for the next 10, 15 years. Keep your eyes open, because I think you can do anything you want. You're naturally good at a lot of things. I've seen a lot of people on camera. You're natural, and more importantly, you have something really important to say. It's been a privilege to record you and to meet you and to know you. Good on you.

Pleasure in mind, it just, there's nothing that has brought more clout to me at work than getting to meet my grove. No amount of welding, no part of knowledge. As soon as I met you, I was cool with every dude in there. That is flattering in ways. I appreciate that. And if there's anything I can do for the gang over there, swag, let me know. Oh, yeah. We owe you guys a debt too.

Without you, it's just an old white. white guys screaming at the kids to get off his lawn, right? That's all, you know. The older I get, the less persuasive I become to guys like Jake. And to people getting out of high school and going to college, they need to hear from you. You're stepping up. I think you're having a bigger impact than you know. And I hope one day you'll look back at all of this and feel great about it.

I do. I already do. I feel great about it. It is an accomplishment in life. I never dreamed. I'd be blessed with. So I am blown away by the impact. It's already had.

So I can't imagine. It can only go up. The documentary is called Trading Up. You can find it online. Google it. It's only 20 minutes. If there's somebody in your life who's struggling to figure out what's possible, what to do with their hands and their mind in concert, they need to watch it.

It will move the needle, I promise. And if people want to follow you, Chloe, because I understand you are an influencer, Where are you? Instagram, Facebook? I'm only on Instagram. Ark welding angel. That's my Instagram handle. Arc welding angel.

Yes, arc welding angel. Check her out. The photos alone will be seared into your retina for time immemorial. Thanks, Chloe Hudson. Be careful out there, would you? No more scars. Thank you. And Jake Maynard, no hard feelings, man.

That was a cheap shot. I thought you took in the new. public. You have the emotional depth of a puddle. Hey, that's what I didn't say that. It's a conversation and we have it. The emotional depth of a puddle. Keep pouring coffee on that crab boat.

All right. Come on. Be nice. Good God. Hey, Jake, if you enjoyed this, do me a favor. Give us a five-star review over there on Apple. Would you? That'd be terrific.

All right, I got to go. See you guys. The Education Equation with College Board President Jeremy Singer is a new podcast exploring real research, real results, and real strategies that improve student outcomes. Each episode, Jeremy brings in experts and innovators in education who are leading on solutions, technologies, and research-backed approaches that move the needle for students. Ready to dive in? Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Visit theeducationequation.org.

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