The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 239: The Best Business Card in History

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Former Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, with his wife and writing partner, Lisa McCubbin Hill, discuss Clint's service to five presidents including JFK and that fateful day in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

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And this one is called the best business card in history. And I'll stand by that. It's still seared in my retina chock the day this was presented to me, the finest business card I've ever seen. Now, was it presented to you or did you observe it? Why don't you just recount this story for people? Because I know we mentioned it in the podcast if you haven't heard the story. So our guest today is Clint Hill.

Clint Hill is, if you're on my Facebook page, you've certainly seen me right about him. He is a Secret Service agent. He's 90 years old. He guarded Eisenhower and Kennedy. And he guarded Nixon and he guarded Johnson and he guarded Carter. I got the order wrong. Ford, right. Yeah, I got the order and the names wrong. But aside from that, you really nailed it. Clint is most famous for his appearance in the Supruder film. He was guarding Jackie Kennedy in those days and ran to the convertible in Dallas moments after the president was assassinated and went about the business of protecting the first lady as best he could in extraordinary circumstances.

I didn't know any of this when I walked into a bar and waited to place my drink and saw a man about my dad's age in front of me placing his drink. And the guy ordered a Clint. And the bartender said, what's in a Clint? And the man reached into his sport coat and pulled out a business card and handed it to the bartender. And the bartender said, okay, I got it. And I'm immediately struck by the fact that this guy's carrying around a business card with his drink. drink on it. This is. Whoever he is, he's a man who knows what he wants. And I start up a conversation with the guy along the lines of, you strike me as a man who knows what he wants. And he laughed and he said,

yes, I am. And he showed me his card. And it said, the Clint. And the recipe for his drink of choice, which he had christened, the Clint, is on the card, along with a picture of the cocktail properly mixed. Right. And I just, I mean, if that's not the basis for a conversation, right, I don't know what it is. So I ask if the Clint in question is him and he says, yeah. And we just start chatting. And I learned that he was in the Secret Service. And then I learned that he guarded five different presidents and that he was the guy on the scene the day Kennedy was assassinated. It's just one of those moments, you know, I'm like, what a strange way to meet an interesting guy. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the day that this occurred was the day before President's Day in 2019. President's Day

Eve. And I'm not really cognizant of that either. It's not really a holiday I mark on my calendar. You know, what are you doing, President's Day Eve? I happen to be in a bar ordering a drink. Well, I met his collaborator that evening as well, a woman named Lisa McCubbin. And Lisa and Clint, as it turns out, had been writing books together for some time. The more I heard about their story, the more interest that I became and the two of them wound up having dinner together. That evening, I came home and did what I always do. I kind of wrote about my day. Right.

An amusing little story for Facebook about a man with the most amazing business. card ever, the best business card in history. So I tell the story, and I make it as amusing as I can, and I mention to people that since President's Day is tomorrow, I'm going to be going to Amazon tonight to order a copy of five presidents, one of the four or five books these two had worked on together. Anyhow, I don't think anything of it. I post, I go to bed. I wake up the next morning. Holy cow, this post, Chuck, as you know, people talk about posts going viral. This is I didn't see anything like this. It was shared over 350,000 times.

Which is a lot. A big post on Facebook might get shared four, five, six thousand times, maybe 10,000. Yet beyond 10,000, you're reaching millions of people. This thing reached tens of millions of people. And they wound up selling like 20,000 books. They had to print more. Yeah. And it gets even weirder.

The publisher, their publisher, turned out to be my publisher. publisher. And so all of a sudden, the people over at Simon and Schuster, like, what in the hell have you done? We've got to go into another printing for this book that was on the shelves a few years ago. So it's a really fun story about how people just meet in a bar and have a conversation. But then it goes, of course, beyond that. It's not just about selling books. It's not just about introducing the country to a guy who really defines the very notion of sacrifice and service. We became friends. And then Clint and Lisa, who had been working together and collaborating together, they get married. Crazy. I wind up going to their wedding. I give the toast. You give a toast.

So, you know, pretty good from what they say. It was okay. But here we are. Now we have a podcast, and every week the barking dog is at the door, and we got to figure out what do we want to do and who we want to talk to. And I thought, since last weeks was so great with Dr. Peter. Peter Lilbeck. Thank you. Lilback. Man, he was good. Yeah. And I thought, oh, God, you know, we should have saved him for President's Day. But then I thought, well, you know what? I got Clint Hill right down the street here. Let's see what they're up to. So anyway, what you're about to hear is an hour plus conversation with a living legend. I can't really call it an interview. Clint Hill's been interviewed so many times. and he's been asked every imaginable question about guarding Jackie Kennedy,

and he's talked at length about what it is to be in the Secret Service. We talk about some of that, but mostly I wanted to get he and Lisa on together to talk a little bit about a love story and how she got Clint Hill to open up. You know, Chuck, he didn't talk about that day for nearly 50 years. Which is crazy to think about. I think it was out of a sense of duty that he shouldn't speak about it, you know, but he needed to, apparently. He really did. Well, it was duty and it was just pain. Right. And he gets into it here. He actually says it. Spoiler alert, but the pain of having a front row seat to an event like that. An event that really traumatized the country, but imagine being in the thick of it. Clint Hill was there for all of it. His books are all amazing for anybody with.

a passing interest in history. I think it's a required reading. But for me, he's just a guy who became my friend and his wife has become my friend. It brings a smile to my face to know that he walks the earth to this day carrying the best business card in history. His actual name's not even on it. The Clint. A recipe. Or a number or anything. Just the recipe. A picture. And a picture of the drink. Get a load of my friend Clint Hill and his new bride, Lisa, the best business card in history. Clint, you remember my old buddy Chuck, right? Yes, we had a long conversation yesterday. Oh, well, then that's not nearly as impressive as you remembering from a year ago, but it's still impressive. Well, I remember him that then too, but yesterday more prominently. So you got a clearer

idea of yesterday than you do when we met a year ago. Is that it? That's it. That's it. That seems fair. I remember each one. Hi, Mike. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Wedded Bliss.

We're in wedded bliss. We're in wedded bliss. You should try it. You guys are deep into it now. This is what, month three? Three or four? Three, two. Two plus.

Two plus. Two plus. But who's counting? Seriously, Clint. What's it feel like? Gosh, I mean, what are you, 90 years old now? I am 90 years old. Correct.

90 and a month plus. And you're sitting there in your home where you were married less than three months ago to the beautiful now Lisa Hill where I was honored to offer a toast to the two of you. I hope I said something cogent. You did. It was wonderful. It was the hit of the wedding. Well, along with my father's toast.

Your father's toast was pretty solid. Yeah. Pretty good. But you know what? It's really daunting in a week. way for me anyhow. I mean, I've given lots of toasts and I've been at lots of weddings and I've met all sorts of interesting people, been very lucky in that regard. But what do you say to honor a union such as this to honor a man like Clint who is, I mean, you're kind of a legend,

dude, if you didn't get the memo already. And Lisa, you can certainly speak to this better than anybody else, but it must be a fascinating time. It's certainly a fascinating time for me to be alive. But when you look back over the last 90 years, Clint, does it get much more interesting than this? No, not really. I mean, this is an interesting period of time. I've lived through so many interesting periods of time, but this is one of the most interesting with everything that's happening in the world and in this country. And the way the country is divided and you come up with a disease like COVID worldwide. I don't know. ever thought I'd see that. I thought the last thing we ever had was polio that was going to cause a

real problem. And now here we are. In 2012, or 2022, with, uh, where does the time go, Clint? Slips by. It slips by, Mike. If you think the last 10 years took a long time, wait to see what this next hour feels like. Oh, no. We got this hour. We got this for take care. Look, I want to thank you both sincerely for making the time. Lisa, I was telling Chuck earlier, Chuck knew. He's been working with me now for nearly 10 years. Like I said in the toast, one of the most alarming things I've ever seen is the way that simple Facebook story about our meeting went around the world. Never mind the country.

This went around the world. It was shared 365,000 times and reached something. like over 30 million people. Lisa, how do you account for that? Aside, of course, from my incredible charisma and celebrity. Well, I think that's what did it actually. That's what did it. But the power of Mike Rowe, as they say at gallery books,

our mutual publishing house, you know, I think, well, it was just a cool story, you know, the way it happened, and then the way you presented it, too. It's like, talk about meeting a guy in the bar story. you know and I don't know I think you're so real and Clint is so real he's got the cards you know it was authentic people love that and then as you know all of us have gotten to become friends as a result of that and then other things have developed I think people just love that it's a feel-good story

you know I guess maybe that's true most of the people who have read your books and anybody who knows Clint's history would have a very difficult time relating to the events of November in 1963. Very few people can relate to what it must have been like to guard five presidents. But everybody's walked into a bar and seen a guy trying to order a drink. And that's where it gets a little weird, Chuck, because then he reaches in his pocket and pulls out a business card with the name of a drink on it and the, you know, instructions on how to make it. And there's just simply no way a guy like me can stand there quietly and watch something like that happen and not strike up a conversation. And to then learn hours later who this man is, what he did, to learn that

his now wife, his collaborator, is the daughter of a mutual friend, a neighbor, to suddenly start connecting dots and realize that Lisa and I and Clint have the same publisher, to realize all of this on the eve of President's Day and to learn that this man is enjoying a pink cocktail. It was all just too much. I simply had to write it down. It's Campari red. It's red, Mike. Campari's red, not pink. He would not drink a pink cocktail. You might make a big cocktail, but I don't drink pink ones. I drink red ones. Whatever you say, sir, what are your thoughts on the color of the windsock on Chuck's microphone right now. How would you describe that? Is that pink or red? It's more pink than red, but it's really not pink either. It's a magenta. It's a shade of red.

There it is. All right, well, look, right now, I'm simply trying to ask some questions that nobody's ever asked you before because you've been interviewed tens of thousands of times, it seems like. And Lisa, prior to all the craziness, you guys were on the speaking. circuit. You were going all over the country. I should tell you that just 40 minutes ago, I went back on my Facebook page, and I just mentioned that I was going to be talking to you. And I asked if anybody had any questions to, you know, post them there and maybe we'd get to them. We have nearly 600 now in 40 minutes. How would you like to do this? Would you like to talk about much of what you typically do when you're out in the world answering questions from a curious

country? Or would you just like to catch up like the friends we've become? Whichever you think serves the purpose best. Half and half. Okay. Half and half. All right. Well, then let's get the bona fides out of the way for it is true. You've guarded five presidents. The Secret Service is your life. Eisenhower to Kennedy, Kennedy to Johnson, Johnson to Nixon, and then Nixon to Ford. If you had to come up that experience in a sentence or two, could you? Well, I'd have to just say that I was extremely fortunate to be in that position

during those five administrations to see the workings of the United States government from the very top down, how it worked internationally and nationally and other problems. And it was just fascinating to me, at least. You were a farm kid from North Dakota, as I recall. That's correct. I came out of the great county of McLean in the little city of Washburn, the county seat of McLean County. Yeah. Just 40 miles northwest of Bismarck on the Big Missouri River called the Big Muddy.

So how winding is the road that takes you into the world you ultimately inhabited? How did that happen? Well, I'm extremely fortunate Because I was born to a lady who had had five free of his children She no longer was married And she got pregnant with me She gave birth to me And at 17 days of life

She took me to the largest city in the state, Fargo Had me baptized in a Lutheran church And had turned me over to the North Dakota Children's Home Where I was placed up for adoption. And she did that because she could not care for me. It was 1932, the midst of the Deep Depression. She was a maid at that time in a hotel in a very small town in northeastern North Dakota called Laramore. Fortunate for me in about

two and a half, three months, a couple Chris J Hill and his wife Jenny Sophia Roasted Hill came to that organization and seeking a child child and they selected me and took them with me to their home in Washburn, North Dakota. They raised me. I lived there until I was 18 years old and went away to college. They provided me with everything I ever would have needed in this little town of 912 people. And to go from that life to end up at the White House is quite a journey. Lisa, I mean, I'm going to bounce around a lot now because there's decades and decades to cover. But when did Clint Hill hit your radar?

And we should mention that you were a reporter at the time, I think. You've worked on numerous television stations. You've been in news for most of your life. How did you first come across his name? Well, I was actually living in the Middle East in Doha. Qatar. My husband at the time worked for an oil company, and that's why we were stationed over there with our kids. And I was working on a book called The Kennedy Detail with an old family friend named Jerry Blaine, who had been a Secret Service agent for JFK. And he had been writing this book,

and he asked me to help him with it. And I mean, I actually never was much of a student of history. and I wasn't one of these people that was fascinated with the Kennedys or the assassination or anything. And I don't know that I'd ever even heard the name Clint Hill until I got involved in that project. And so as we were writing, Jerry was on the Kennedy detail, but he was on the midnight shift in Dallas. And so he wasn't there when the president was assassinated. And so I asked him, is there anybody around still alive who was there? And he said, well, Clint Hill, but he doesn't talk to anybody. And at the time, Clint really didn't talk to anybody,

and Jerry had to really convince you to talk to me, right? Yeah, he called me up more than once to try and get me to talk to Lisa. At first, I completely rejected him. I told him, I said, I was never going to be part of any book. I didn't want anything to do with it. I wasn't going to write a book. I wasn't going to contribute to a book. I wasn't going to assist anybody else to write a book.

I didn't want anything to do with it. but he persisted. He'd call me day after day. And finally, he said, well, look, you can go over the entire book. You can check it for facts. Before we send it to the publisher and all this kind of stuff. And I said, okay, I'll help you if I can. So he set up an appointment with then Mrs. McCullen

to meet with me in Washington, D.C., at the Hay Adams Hotel. in August 10th, 2009. And I went there. I met her. She had arranged for a conference room. And the first thing I told her is that, you know, I just don't talk about the assassination or things like that. We didn't talk about the assassination.

He gave me two hours. And I sort of just wanted to get a feel for him, get sort of some background information. And there were a couple of questions that I asked him. that really got to him. And he got choked up and I thought, wow, this is something that happened nearly 50 years ago. It was still so raw to him. And so I could tell there was still a lot of pain there and there was much more to the story.

And so when the two hours was up, he kind of looked at his watch and he said, okay, your time's up. He was very nice, actually. I thought I was being pretty nice. Do you recall the questions, Lisa? Yes. Well, one of them was about when President and Mrs. Kennedy had a baby in August of 1963. And so Clint had gone through the whole pregnancy with Jackie Kennedy as her agent.

And the baby was born. They named him Patrick Bouvier Kennedy. And Clint was there at his birth. He was born premature. and he subsequently died within two days. And it was just tragic. And when I asked him about that, what he remembered, I don't think he was expecting it

and probably hadn't even thought about it in a long time. That really choked him up to even go back there and remember that tragedy. It still does to some extent. It's just so tragic for them, for both the president and his wife, they were so looking forward to this birth, and then to see this little guy be born

and have this major problem with his lungs, having to get him transported to a hospital in Boston where they could really attend to him but couldn't fly him because of his lung problems, so I had to go by ambulance, had an agent go with him and got him there, and the president flew in from Washington, D.C., to be with him and to be with Mrs. Kennedy.

We were out at the Cape at Otis Air Force Base, and to see all this tragedy and then to get a call at six in the morning, two days later, it's by my boss saying that he had died. It just was more than you could handle this time. Is it weird to love people but despise human resources? If so, well, color me weird. It's not to say I don't respect the millions of people who work in HR departments and companies all over the country. I do. It's just that I don't envy him. That's why

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You know, I want to ask you about this weird real estate between being the professional that you clearly are and the depth of feeling that you're just describing. I mean, as a Secret Service agent, It just seems like a weird mix of always being present, but always being somewhat detached at the same time. But you were very close to the people that you protected, Mrs. Kennedy in particular. And I think a lot of people would just be curious to know how you managed that. Obviously, it was on Lisa's mind when she asked that question because just hearing you talk about it now, it does beg so many more questions.

No, I understand that. It's hard to explain. but it's simply like at the time of the assassination. We couldn't grieve. We had work to do, and it's the same way when Patrick died. I couldn't just break down and grieve. I had work to do because this meant press was going to go crazy. The president was going to be flying back from Boston to Otis to be with Mrs. Kennedy.

We had to set up for that and make sure she was okay and that everything was being handled properly. there just always was so much to do and we kept so busy that it wasn't until you had a break sometime where you could really take a breath and then break down kind of yeah I was struck to

the night we met like a lot of other people I ordered your book and then you were kind enough to give me a free copy thanks I think I still owe you 2995 whatever was but um you know my sense was that you felt a little bit early on like you had gotten some sort of consolation prize.

You had signed on to guard the president. That was the brass ring. And suddenly you're kind of saddled with this socialite, right? And that must have been a complicated thing to maneuver, getting back to the professional thing. And you clearly navigated all of that. When did that feeling change? When did you become as immersed as you became?

Well, it was gradual because I come from being with Eisenhower. And when you're with the president, that kind of activity is nothing like it. And then because even to be there with President Eisenhower and to see what was going on with Mrs. Eisenhower, which was almost nothing. I mean, she played Canasta and that kind of thing. And the agents that were assigned to him, they had the most dull existence possible. Well, when I was finally called to the director's office and told me, that my next assignment was going to be with Mrs. Kennedy,

I thought about what those, I saw, how they handled Mrs. Eisenhower and how the guys handled Best Truman. Oh, God, I'm being put back in, you know, just out of the ball game, completely. And so I was really disappointed. But as I got to know her, she was different.

She was active. She loved that. She was very athletic. water skied, played golf, played tennis, road horses was an excellent equestrian. There hadn't been a first lady like her. And she was always on the go. We were not at the White House a lot.

Tuesday to Thursday, a lot of times. We would be out at Middleburg or up in Cape Cod or down in Palm Beach, Florida, if we were in the United States. But every summer, we would spend, And most of the summer up in the Cape, part of the summer in Europe or someplace else. And it was just amazing. And then she would give me additional responsibilities.

She finally figured out that I could do things for her that would eliminate another body being taken on a trip, a staff member. And I got to the point where finally it was just she, her personal assistant or maid, and me. I was to handle the relationship with foreign countries, I was to handle the press, I was to handle everything that needed to be handled, including providing for her protection

and she or children if they were with her. So it got very busy and complicated, but it was fun and enjoyable from my point of here. And that's how I think you had asked, you know, how did he become so close to her? Part of it was, Mike, at that time, there were only two Secret Service agents assigned to the First Lady. And at one point, one of the other agent that was assigned to Mrs. Kennedy got let go.

And so for months and months, Clint was the only Secret Service agent assigned to Jackie Kennedy. So he was with her all the time. And usually when she wasn't with her husband, And so he spent a lot more time with her than she did with her own husband. No question. I was with her from the time she got up in the morning until the time she went to bed at nights, just to make sure that nothing was going wrong. Was she annoyed by that?

There must have been times where she just felt like, you know, she couldn't have her privacy. And I know that you were certainly, again, the balancing act that a good agent has to do. I can't imagine how you navigated that or where you drew that line. How do you stay out of the way? The way it started was that was exactly the case. She resented that someone was going to be there 24 hours a day. Wherever she went, whatever she did,

there were going to be somebody looking over her shoulder. She was pregnant when I first met her in 1960 in November. And she was walking as much as she could because of the pregnancy. and she would walk from their house in Georgetown down to a pathway along the Potomac River, and I would accompany her. It got to the point where we would have conversations. I think it got to be somewhat more enjoyable, and she realized that I was there, yes, to make sure she was safe and everything was okay,

but almost like a companion at the same time. I was there to help her. If she needed something, I could arrange for her. And she got to understand that. And the more we spent time together like that, I think the easier it became for her to accept me is almost like one of the family. What about the president? What was your relationship like with him?

And, I mean, there's so much at stake and there's so much that needs protecting. How did he view you as the guy who was in charge of keeping an eye on his wife and keeping her safe? Well, he gradually really learned to trust me, too. He would call me into the Oval Office if he knew we were going to go somewhere and do something. He wanted something special done or some special limitations, like make sure there aren't too many glasses on the table in a restaurant showing that they're all drinking a lot of wine or things of that nature. Make sure if she doesn't cross paths with certain individuals.

Onassis for one at one time, 1961. He really did trust me, and he called me by my first name. There were no formalities at all between he and I. Yeah. I mean, after that terrible day in November, weren't you the one who first talked to his brother, Robert, when he was trying to get a sense of what the hell had actually happened? Yes, I was on the phone from Park.

hospital talking to my boss at the White House in Washington and the operator cut in and said, Mr. Hill, the attorney gentleman wants to talk to you. And I had told him previously when it don't let anybody cut in on my conversation with my boss and there was the Attorney General, so that made a difference. He wanted to know what was going on down there, how serious things were. He had no idea. I didn't want to tell him that his brother was dead, which I knew he was. But I had to say something to him, so I just told him, he said, well, how bad is it? And I just said, is as bad as it could get.

And with that, he just hung up the phone. That's how he knew that his brother really had died. And he trusted me, and other people trust me. I know that there was a distinguished economist who was at one time the ambassador in India. And he was in New York when this happened, assassination. And they were having lunch or something somewhere. The word came down, and the word got passed. I had said that the president was dead, and this man turned to his crew and said, if

Glenn Hill said that, that's turned. Because he knew me. Lisa, there's really nothing new to say or to ask around the topic in general. I mean, so many movies have been made, so many books have been written, everybody's weighed in. It's just one of those moments. Your husband, Chuck said this to me earlier, and I had to laugh because it's true, but he kind of had the all-time cameo in one of the most viewed films in the history of the world. People who don't know much about that day have seen that Zabruder film.

They've seen you in action. They know who you are, even if they don't know what your story was. So in the interest of trying to ask something new, Lisa, as somebody who was never really all that obsessed with the events, aware of them certainly. but like you said, you weren't obsessed with him. When did you become obsessed with the guy sitting to your left? When did he become interesting in ways that surprised you? Well, so I had mentioned that I was living in the Middle East, and so I met him in Washington, D.C.,

then went back to Doha, Qatar, where I was living, to finish writing this book. And as I was going along, I did have some questions. And at the end of that meeting, Clint made his, fatal mistake, which was I asked him if I could have his phone number. Well, Mike, you know, you never give a reporter your phone. No, Clint, what are you doing, man? You don't give a reporter your phone number. So I would call him from Doha. It was like a 12 or 14 hour time difference, something like that. And it would usually be like, you know, midnight my time. And I would just

slowly start asking him some questions and getting into that day because that's really what I did want to talk to him about even though he had said he never talked about it well he slowly started opening up to me and little by little it was really interesting because we'd have these conversations and then the next morning I would wake up and there would be an email from Clint that he had typed out exactly what we had talked about to make sure that I had it right and so he's just wanted to make sure. And now that I know, of course he did that, right? So then I would start calling him more and more. And one day, he said, if I wanted to call you, how would I go about doing that? So I said, well, here's my number if you want to call. And he called me. He said,

all right, I'm just going to tell you the whole damn story. And he just talked and talked for two hours straight about every little detail that he had never told anyone before. So he had got to the point where he trusted me and he realized, you know, I wasn't Oliver Stone. I wasn't trying to sensationalize this. I really cared and I wanted to know. And through the course of writing this book, we really, we ended up talking almost every day, sometimes for an hour, two hours. And when I was turning in the manuscript, I called him and I said, I'm really sad. And he goes, why? What happened? And I said, well, now I don't have a reason to call you anymore. the book is finished and he said well you can still call me anytime and we both had realized there

was something more there and then you know one thing led to another but 12 years later here we are we're married i mean never would have guessed that and still writing books by the way what are you looking at october now for travels with miss kennedy that's right the proposed release state yes so yes during covid we had to to find something to do while it was just the two of us. So. Yeah, you wrote a book and got married. You have to do something. And renovated a house.

You just can't sit there. You have to do something. This is what happened when you lock people down. That's it. Yeah. Strange things happen. Strange things. Maybe I'm assuming too much. I want people to understand why it was so difficult for you to tell the story that you told Lisa. I mean, I would imagine it was. was a defining moment in your life, and I know there was some depression after the fact, but from administration to administration to administration, years go by, decades go by, and still, you would put all of that in a lockbox. How come? Well, that portion of my life

was so traumatic, that period of time, the trip to Dallas specifically. the days surrounding that and the year following that. 64 was horrible. It was very hard to deal with, and I just never wanted to discuss it with anybody. I didn't talk to agents about it. I didn't talk to my wife, my kids. Nobody. I testified to Warren Commission, that was it, until after Lisa and I had that meeting in 2009.

And then in 2010, I was requested to, join she and other agents involved in the book, The Kennedy Detail, to film a documentary. We had to go back to Dallas. I didn't really want to go back to Dallas. So she agreed that she would fly from Doha to New York, and then down to Washington, and meet me at the airport, and fly with me to Dallas. And I'll forget that I hadn't been on a plane for years at that time. The last planes I flew on probably with Air Force One. It makes different kind of arrangements for flying than anything else. So she explained to me on the phone that I was going to probably have some problems

as we checked in at the airport, and I said, why do I have to do? She explained that I had to go through this TSA thing, and I had to have my baggage examined, and I said, what do you mean? you know because I had no idea take on your belt take off my belt my shoes do you know who I am and we're in that line I'm doing this and I turn around here I said man

this is a sure a lot better fly out of Air Force One than this crap I mean on Air Force One I would go to work in the morning and have my bag I'd drop my bag at the west end of the White House the transportation guys would pick it up the next time I'd see it would even put my hotel room or wherever we'd go I never had to do any of that stuff I'd walk over to my office

President would him down and walk out with him to get on the helicopter We'd take off Fly to air Andrews get on Air Force One and fly to Rome or someplace Sure As one does Yeah I mean you know Why wouldn't you'd like I think So you're living this life

And I don't know Had you coped I don't want to put you on the couch with all of this But Lisa by the time you came on the scene It was nearly 50 years later And so when you got him to open up, did you have a sense of why he was trusting you and why he had been so tight-lipped for so long? I definitely noticed, even over the phone, there was a change in him over these months. As he was opening up, it was like this weight was being lifted off his shoulder.

And he started joking around a little bit. and, you know, he would write funny emails to me. You know, he really has a great sense of humor. And that started coming out. And then I put him in touch with the other agent that had been with Mrs. Kennedy at one point, Paul Landis, because I was talking to him as well. And they hadn't talked to each other in 40 years. Not since my retirement, yeah.

And so just kind of reconnecting with some of those people. but one of the things he told me and others said the reason they never talked about it was it was just too painful. Exactly. That was the reason. It was just too painful. And even after I was dealing with Lisa and I was able to talk about things much more easily and we needed some information from the agents that were in on the detail. At that time, I went to one of them to get something and he said, Clint, he said, I just can't talk about that. He said, it just kills me.

and I just cannot talk about it. We all took it so hard the fact that we had a responsibility to protect this man, and we failed. He was killed on our watch. And every one of us was just, I mean, we were just

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The goal is a million members by 2030. I think it's doable. I'm doing what I can to help. Learn more at skillsusa.org slash mic. That's skillsusa.org slash mic. I'm talking skills, U.S. Skills, U.S.S. Skills USA. It goes to the professionalism, Lisa, that I was talking about before. I mean, I know a few guys in the Secret Service, and they're all their own people,

but they don't waver the job. It's beyond serious. And I guess I never really thought of it in terms of that, and you just laid it out pretty cleanly. You took it personally. Yes, we did, definitely. Every one of us. Very personally. The consummate professional has no choice but to take the events of that day deeply, deeply personally,

and you don't really talk about it until nearly half a century later when an intrepid reporter living overseas talks you into... giving her your phone number. I still can't believe you did that. Amazing. That all started for me when I was a kid. My father impressed on me that if you're given something to do, you do it until it's completely done, do it successfully,

or start over and try until it's all resolved. You don't give up and you don't quit until you've got it done properly. And that has lasted with me all my life, and that was part of the reason I felt like that regarding what had happened in Dallas is that we had this responsibility we didn't live up to it. Well, has it occurred to either one of you

that the grief that you're talking about, I mean, millions of people, I was just a baby when this happened, but the people who lived through it, I know Chuck's parents, my parents, every single person of that generation, of course, knows exactly where they were. And many, many millions of them also grieved,

people who were never there, but felt so deeply about it. The sense of loss was such a palpable thing. I wonder if the fact that this book, Five Presidents and the four or five others you've worked on jointly, the one that's coming out as well, I wonder to what degree your books have helped a grieving nation. All these years after the fact,

get a little context, get a little perspective, on a moment in time that just seems to be seared in our collective retina. Well, I would say this, that if some of the emails we receive are any indication, it has helped a great number of people because

they've said, so in writing emails to us, thanking us for writing the books and explaining things to them. In many instances, I couldn't believe that they felt the way that they did, that they were so glad that they had

this information that they didn't previously. And a lot of people, Mike, it's interesting, that would come to our presentations because, you know, before COVID, we were on a plane every week a lot like you, going around the country, Europe, wherever, to give presentations about our books. And a lot of the people would come up and say, you know, I was five years old when it happened. And it was the first time I ever saw my parents cry. And it scared me as a five-year-old because you think your parents, are God, they're your solid rock, and they're breaking down. And at a five-year-old, the parents couldn't explain it to a five-year-old, and they kept this with them. And it's amazing how many

people have said that to us, that now it was like closure for them to read Clint's story and to kind of go through that pain with him and then understand what their parents were going through. And it really helped. Isn't that amazing? I mean, it's such a gift, Lisa, we kind of came out of the same world. And I didn't appreciate this for a long time. But the impact of Dirty Jobs, for instance, I still hear it from people who are 22 who were watching it when they were six. You don't always know the impact of a thing. And so you're just chasing down a story. You read about an event. You get a handle on a guy. You take a meeting. Way leads on the way. Here comes a book. There comes another book. Here comes another book. Here comes another book. book after that. Now you're married. It's just, it's an extraordinary thing. And it goes in every single direction. If that car doesn't go through Dealey Plaza, you take an alternative route. Everything's different. A thousand sliding doors, a thousand little decisions. And here we sit. I feel like Clint and I talk about this a lot. We were destined to be together. There's just no

doubt in our minds. And there's so many odd things like my father, who you know, Mike, he went to the Air Force Academy. He was in the graduating class of 1963. And when he was a sophomore, it was JFK's inauguration, right? My father marched in JFK's assassination. No, sorry, inauguration. Inoceration for it. Thank you for it. Yeah, my father marched in JFK's inauguration, carrying the American flag. Now, Clint wasn't even at JFK's inauguration. Another disappointment for me.

I hope to be there, but they had me stay in Florida with Carolina and John because they didn't want them up there because of just too much going on. And then my father graduated from the Air Force Academy, and you know the president rotates each year, and he presents diplomas. at the different service academies. Well, that year, JFK presented my father with his diploma at the Air Force Academy in 1963. And my mother was there.

I was actually there because my mother was pregnant with me when my dad received his diploma from President John F. Kennedy. And then all these years later, I end up in this. I mean, just kind of astonishing. It truly is astonishing. every single component of it, from the business card with his drink of choice on it, to the way we met, to the way you guys met, to the millions of people who have been impacted by your books, to my own Facebook page. Chuck, see if you can find a few questions.

Maybe we could just bounce off these guys, because my Facebook page loves you. There's six million people there, and I swear, I'm going to read the first one because my mother saw this this morning, and she didn't want to post on the thread. So she just sends me this email. I love your mother. You know, we've met your mother. We love your mother. Check this out.

Hi, Clint. I visited you a couple of years ago with Mike. When I spoke with him this morning and he asked if I remembered you, I laughed. How could I forget someone so gallant, so gentlemanly? You probably don't remember this. But when we left your home that evening, it was raining. You put up an umbrella, held my arm. and walked me to Mike's car, opening and closing a gate along the way and opening the car door

for me. I have no doubt that had there been a puddle, you would have placed your jacket upon it. That's very thoughtful of your mother. That's so sweet. She's a wonderful lady. She's all right. I'm going to hit you with a couple of her questions. But Lisa, there's something courtly about this man. There is.

There is something of another time that you don't really have to hear anything to get it. He kind of exudes it, maybe. No, he is truly the most wonderful man in the world. He's the most fascinating person in the world, I think. I mean, you know, he will be watching anything on television, and I ask him about it, and he has been there or done that, you know. He's just so generous, and he is a gentleman all the time. And every single night I say, you know, what do you want for dinner?

Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? And he says, Lisa, whatever you want to do is what we're going to do. Okay. Smart men. I cannot love a man like that. Yeah. Now, Clint, was that a lesson that you learned over the years or were you?

I was brought up in a very conservative home, more conservative than you can believe. but we were taught manners, etiquette, and respect for others, no matter who they were, what their position in life was, especially for the opposite sex. And it just stayed with me in my entire life. Well, and I also think, you know, having been with Jacqueline Kennedy, he, for four years, he did have to do whatever she wanted to do. He didn't get to do what he wanted to do. It was always whatever she wanted to do, and he kind of just went along with that.

Well, yeah, but it was fun. She was doing some pretty cool stuff in hindsight. I was really lucky. I was so fortunate. It's amazing that nobody else has ever had that kind of opportunity like I had. No, you have had a front row seat to history, and everybody knows that, but you're also just a guy who's holding open gates and doors and manners. I could talk to you for hours about the death of manners and the death of shame and the death of so many things that I think is having a not great impact on our country. But it kind of starts

with manners, doesn't it? Yes. True. Yeah. And humility. I think it's all gone by the way, so I had a lot of it. Well, my mother wants to know, being an expert on the Eisenhower's, perhaps you can answer a couple of frivolous questions from the daughter of two parents who greatly admired them. One, were the rumors about President Eisenhower's alleged affair with his driver true. I sure hope not. The rumors were when he was in England as a Supreme Allied commander. He had this female army driver. I can't think of her name now. I knew it.

But I have no idea. I would doubt it very much, knowing how restrictive and everything else that Eisenhower was. He had great respect for himself and for others. I don't think you would have gone that route. Was there a more consequential president since, I mean, I think of Washington and Lincoln, obviously. They're all consequential. But Eisenhower, boy, right man for the time. Well, he certainly was. And he was a great man.

He was fun to be around. He was a no-nonsense guy. He never even called us by name. My boss, he knew his first name, and the driver of the car. but the rest of them were just they agent or anything but uh he was a really a gentleman a nice guy his whole family was that way and her family too i was in the denver office one time for a year mrs eisenhower's mother mrs elvara dowd lived there that's where many grew up i got to know the entire family mrs isanour's mother

mrs isnard's sister mike the whole family because of that relationship i had to be out there any other agents with Mrs. Dowd at night at the president's request. Well, with that in mind, my mom, she says, you probably saw maybe in informal situations. Did she always wear bangs? Did you ever see her without her bangs? Like, I don't know, early in the morning? No, the bags were always there. But I'll tell you, one thing she couldn't do is we were out there and worked nights at her mother's house.

And she and her sister would be there sometimes. And sometimes they'd be very, they'd make little sandwiches for us, the agents who had to be there at night. Mm-hmm. And if they were edible, knew that Mike, her sister made him. If they were inedible, you knew Mamie made him. I mean, she could not. Believe me. And then finally, she says, did you personally like President Eisenhower?

You can tell me, I won't tell anybody. Thank you, Pat. Yes, I did. I really did like him and respected him. He was a gentleman. He didn't put on airs. You know, he'd just nice guy. How old were you when you got there?

27. That's when I was first assigned to the White House. Right. Would that feel like? That must have been an extraordinary moment for a kid in his 20s coming up out of Fargo. Oh, gosh, yeah. Besides that, I got there at the best time possible

because I got there in the first of November. The United States government had acquired some 707s for the first. time, commercial type aircraft. They had three of them assigned to VIP's aircraft at Andrews Air Force Base. And so the White House made use of them for the first time where they had jets. And so I got there November 1st. In early December, Lake took off and flew to Europe. We went from Washington to Rome, Ankara, Karachi, Kabul, New Delhi, New Delhi, New Delhi, New Delhi, New Delhi, Tehran, Athens, Tunisia, Tunis, Tunisia.

And we took a boat over to the south of France and got on an express train, went to Paris, and flew down to Madrid and Lisbon and to Morocco before we came home. I had never been out of the country before. I had a diplomatic capital. I was 27 years old I mean

you just can't get an education like that as quickly as I got or have an experience like that I mean I saw the world within two months I love that he can still remember that exactly in order and it was in 1959

his mind is just incredible and that was just the start of the dream and next year we were down to South America all over the place, Brasilia, Rio, Marlopla, Santiago, Caracas. Sure. I'm just thinking, Lisa, you're right. Do you remember the commercial campaign for the last 15 years?

The guy from Dosecchi is the most interesting man in the world? Right. This is the actual guy. I don't know if you've seen it, Clint. You should Google it when we're done. It's the most interesting man in the world. He sits there and he tells stories. I don't always drink beer, but what?

I do I prefer Doseckeys. Should have been your gig. You could have done that with your Kampari. He has the most interesting man in the world. Yes, for sure. And the sexiest man alive. I keep submitting him to People Magazine to be the sexiest man alive.

He hasn't gotten it yet. Well, we'll see. Chuck, you got any questions there from the Book of Faces? Yeah, there's a ton of them. I think we're up to almost 900 questions right now, and I've gone through most of them. We're going to be here a while. Well, the one thing...

Like for us a drink. Yeah, I know what Clint's having. The one that's coming up a lot is that people are reacting. You know, Mike, in your Facebook post, you said something about when Oswald killed the president. And so many people have said, oh, Oswald didn't kill the president. I already edited it, by the way. I'm like, oh, boy, I don't need to start that kind of trouble. But of course.

Right. A lot of people still think that. That's what a lot of people ask, too, was what do you think, Clint? of the endless conspiracy theories and do you believe Oswald acted alone? That's the short version of all those questions. All the rest of them are strictly what you said, theories. There's not fact about other people

or other things that happen, but there is fact about Lee Harvey Oswald. Fact number one was he was in the Texas book depository on the sixth floor. Fact number two, he obtained a rifle earlier that year from a mail order house in Chicago. He went to a range near Dallas and tested it and fired it.

He also ordered and obtained a handgun. There were only three shots fired at the time of the assassination. I don't care what anybody else says. There were only three shots fired. And you'll hear that said three shots by a number of people who were in the crowd. Not everybody, but a number of people

would say only three shots. those three shots all came from the same place the sixth floor corner window of the Texas school book depository after the assassination when they went into the sixth floor into the Texas school book depository went up to the six floor they found in that area where the corner window is kind of a nest had been built out of boxes

this is a book depository which is box after box after box He had taken boxes to build himself an area by the window to secrete him from being seen from anybody else on that floor and to help him use a rifle while in that area. When they went in there, we called it the sniper's nest. When the police went in there, they found spent shells on the floor. How many? I can't tell you exactly how many. spent shells there were.

They should have been probably three. They also went over to, near the stairway, they found a rifle secreted behind the boxes. Turns out that was the rifle that fired those shells that belonged to the R.V. Oswald, who acquired it from a place in Chicago earlier that year. Then he leaves. I tried to count everybody that was supposed to be in the building.

He was gone. So then he finally shows up on the street and he's in a different part of the town of Dallas a police officer in a patrol car notices him Oswald shoots and kills it then Oswald the big mistake he made was there was a movie theater there

and he went into the movie theater he did not buy a ticket so when the police were in the area where the police officer had been shot they were checking for him who could have done this, the person who ran the ticket booth at the movie theater told the police somebody had gone in

from being notified by our dog, the UPS is here. Dazzle. That's a good dog. So the police went into the theater, and sure enough, they found Oswald in the theater. He pulled a gun. trying to shoot the police was not successful, and he was arrested. Now, all of that is factual. Right.

It's not theory. And so I don't know where they get all this conspiracy stuff. I mean, I've seen conspiracy stuff where there were 12 shots fired, 20 shots fired. Magic bullets. Oh, from all different directions. I mean, they've got them coming from the front. Well, gee whiz, if they had to come from the front, they'd have gone through the wind shield. and there was no, the windshield wasn't broke.

So that rules out anything coming from the front. And gosh almighty, agent's sitting right in front of the front seat on the right side was about 6 foot 4. So he sat up pretty high. The person sitting right behind him was the governor of Texas, Governor John Connolly. He's about 6 foot 3. He sits up pretty high. And the president sat behind him.

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How far away from you or from the car were you? when you heard the first shot, and did you know it was a shot when you heard it? First shot, I didn't recognize immediately as a shot because there were echoes in that area because of buildings the way they're located. I was on the left-hand side of the follow-up car immediately behind the presence car. Now, when I say immediately behind, the driver of the follow-up car tries to keep our car, the follow-up car, about three feet separated from the front bumper of our car to the rear bumper of the president's car at all times in a motorcade

unless it's going too fast. And so that's how far away we were. I wasn't that far away from the back seat of the president's car. I started to, when I heard the noise over my right shoulder from the rear, I started to turn to my right to see if I could locate what it was and where I was coming from. And in so doing, my eyes, passed across the back of the president's car.

And I saw the president, and I saw I wrecked. I saw him do this, and then he started to fall to his left. I knew then it had to have been a shot. So I jumped from my position on the running board. There was a Dallas police officer, motorcycle officer, immediately to my left, and another one to his left. And I had to get between that motorcycle and the car I was on to get to the presidential car.

And I jumped and I started to run as fast as I could, trying to get up to the president of car. I wanted to get up on top of the back of it to form a shield there to provide protection both President Kennedy and Mrs. Kennedy. Just as I approached the car, the third shot rang out and it hit him

in the back of the head. At that time, his head was down right next to Mrs. Kennedy's. The bullet entered back here, but it exited right up to the year and it just took that big piece of scalp and it flipped it up and out of that wound came blood and blown

and brain and all the matter and it got all over me and all were Mrs. Kennedy because she had come up in the trunk she was trying to grasp some of that material and I finally got to hold her and put her in the back seat when I did that

he fell over farther to his left end his head was in her lap and the right side of his head was up I could see in the wound, there was just no brain material there anymore. Well, you knew in a second. I immediately thought he was dead. I just turned it. I gave a thumbs down to the follow-up car crew,

and then I screamed at the driver to get us to a hospital. And luckily for us, the chief of police of Dallas was in a lead car, and he got in front of us, and he led us to a Parkland hospital. It took us about four minutes. the thing that touched me the most that I didn't know about any of this, and I've read a few books and, you know, by no means what I'd call myself informed, but she wouldn't let go of his body when they got to the hospital and they were trying to get him onto a gurney. She just wasn't going to let him go and you were, you were begging her to let him go so they could help the president

and you realized in a moment what was going on and what you did in that moment reminded me of what my mom wrote just now. You did an amazingly gentlemanly thing if I'm remembering this right. Well, I pleaded with her, please, Miss Kennedy, let us out for president. And I got no response at all.

She just was hanging on to him. I pleaded with her again. Now I'd been with her now about, well, three years. I knew her pretty well, and I knew the problem was she didn't want anybody to see the condition he was in. But it was horrible. And so I took out my suit coat, and I covered up his head and his upper back. She let go right away. We picked him up, put him on the gurney, and ran into the trauma room, an emergency room,

and put him in a trauma room one. And she went accompanied him in there. and then the doctor started arriving from all over the hospital and trying to work on him feverishly. He was lying on his back on the gurney. They never even turned him over. They didn't even look to see if he had been shot in the back or anything. They just worked on his wound that was exposed to them.

They did whatever they could. There was nothing they could do. Well, there it is again, Lisa. That weird mix of professionalism and deeply personal, kind. In that moment, I would imagine a lot of agents, a lot of well-intended people would have physically pulled the two of them apart

to get the president of the car onto a gurney, into a trauma room. There's no time for niceties. You're right. Your husband takes off his sport coat and puts it over that, and problem is solved. Yeah, he's amazing.

I love that you picked up on that mic. It's true. Clint is just so, I don't know what's the word is, so stable. Nothing rattles him. I mean, I'm a panicker. I readily admit it, and he will admit, you know, something happens, and I panic. He's always calm down, just take a deep breath. Let's figure out what's going on.

And with anything, with everything, that's just his manner and his way. And he's always thinking about other people. He's taught me so much in that way, just about being kind to people. You know, don't say things just to, you know, because you want to get it out or get revenge on someone. What's that going to do? Just, you know, be nice to other people, think about them. It's a nice way to live. Don't cost anything.

I'm just sitting here thinking one of the first conversations we had, Lisa, was you've used books in a way to try. and distill the very thing you've just tried to describe the quality in your husband. And I remember saying to you, you know what, the country could use some common sense right now. If there's a way to use a podcast or find, you know, to use this medium in small bursts to somehow distill the wisdom and the perspective of one of the most interesting men in the world, we're going to try and figure that out. I mean, Clint, if you could.

See, this is the thing. You don't strike me as a guy who offers advice. And even when he's asked for it, you're probably pretty stingy with it. But here we are, living at a time when the world could probably, certainly our country could use some good advice. Do you have any based on what you've done, what you've seen, how you've lived? Is there something you can offer them? Everybody would just take a step back and be nice to people.

You know, it doesn't cost them anything to be nice. nice. You don't have to be vengeful. You don't have to, you know, not everybody's a villain. That's what just really affects me the most right now is the way the country is so divided that it's just so ridiculous that they can't come to agree on anything. I mean, I saw, pretty good, previous administrations I worked with, Johnson, for example, he had his own vision of things and the Republicans did too, but Everett Dirkson, who was ahead of the Republican Party in the Senate, he and Johnson would get together at the White House. I mean, if Johnson had a problem with a bill, he'd call Dirkson up, and Dirkston come over, and they'd go up to the second floor,

and we'd put out the booze, and they'd sit there and have a couple drinks and talk and talk and talk, and by the next day, everything is resolved, peacefully. No big problems. But today, they just can't stand to be in the same room with each other. I don't understand it. How do we fix it? What can we do? You'd think that some of these guys are smart enough to understand that it doesn't do them any good. They're not gaining anything by being vengeful,

by striking back at people. Some of the horrible remarks that are made about others, that's ridiculous, dumb. Some of them, by which my mother were alive, wash out their mouths with their felons and a half the soap. Box their ears. Lisa, when were you first struck by the kindness in Clint Hill? It's not a word that's often immediately associated with men who carry guns their entire lives

and who are sworn to protect. Well, I was in the hospital before that first book came out. I had flown back to Colorado. I had a home in Colorado, and I had a surgery. And Clint called me every day when I was in the hospital and would talk to me. And I had this nurse, Barb, who we ended up becoming friends with and she later helped Clint. But she said to me, who is that that keeps calling you? He obviously really cares about you.

She picked up on it and he did at that point. He cared about me. And we hadn't even known each other a year. we'd only seen each other twice or three times, I think. He's just so, so genuine. And, yeah, he did used to open the door for me like he did for your mother. I think, I don't know, somewhere along the way that stopped. I didn't realize I had not to be doing that.

My goodness. And it struck me, I love that he always wore a blazer. To me, that was very sexy. He cared about the way he, well, I thought he cared about the way he looked. but then I realized it was just because he likes the pockets. Oh, that's not true. You like pockets. Oh, I do like pockets.

He has a lot of stuff. He has a lot of stuff that he carries with him. What does he carry with him all the time? Yeah. He has two wallets. I have no idea why, but two wallets and they're both filled with not money, but thanks. Two wallets, a credential, a cell phone. A comb

A comb Tissue I don't know Whatever he needs I remember we were having dinner This is early on And now you carried one of these At Oximeter

Uh huh We were in Georgetown having dinner With my son And my son needed something Or Clint pulled it out of his pocket Here And then something else came up Clint pulled it out of his pocket here

It's like a Boy Scout You know whatever you you need. Be prepared. You're like the perfect contestant on the price is right. Let's make a deal. Let's make a deal. Sorry, let's make a deal. You know, it's funny that you mentioned, be prepared, Clint. I was doing a thing the other day. I forgot where I was, some speech somewhere. And I got a question, nobody ever asked me before. They knew I'd been an Eagle Scout, and I'm an Eagle Scout, I guess. And they wanted to know what I thought the most important Scout law was. Were you a Boy Scout back in the day? Yeah. I did get to the Eagle, but I,

So what was I? Well, you're the guy who guarded five presidents, so you kind of win. We'll forgive that. I mean, I wish I had been an Eagles cop, but I didn't make it. No, no, you get a pass, you know, five presidents. That's pretty good. I said it was a toss-up, right? Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courtees, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverend.

And I said, for me, it was a toss-up between kind and cheerful, since those were the two things most absent. it seems in today's environment, obviously trustworthy and loyalty, all that stuff is baked in. What do you think are the most important qualities to be a successful Secret Service agent, both back in the day and today? Well, I don't think it's changed much. From that point of view, I think honesty, integrity, willingness to follow orders, but to understand what's right and what's wrong. don't do things that are questionable that are wrong, for sure.

Respect others, but they have to earn your respect, you know, just don't demand it or commend it. I've always said that about people. Don't expect me to respect you just because you tell me to respect you. You better earn my respect. And I think it's a good motto to have. My old Scoutmaster summed it up pretty simply. He said, look, guys, the Scout law is important.

The Scout oath is important. The motto is important. The slogan is important. But really, you kind of push it all together, and it comes down to don't be an asshole. That's it. Don't be an asshole. Yeah, that's about it.

Be worthy of trust and confidence. Yes. Which all these Secret Service agents are supposed to be. I got another question. Hit him. This is kind of related. I find this very interesting by Eileen Fridditch, who writes, how much of your skills as a secret service agent do you still use today, such as reading a crowd and entrance and exit doors looking for possible trouble sources?

That's great. Yeah, I like that question. It hasn't changed. I mean. So tell us what you do when you go into a restaurant, for instance. What do you do? I survey the area in which I'm going into. I can tell you pretty much how many people are in there. When we get to a table that we're going to sit at, I always sit with my back to a wall so I can see the door of the entrance. And I can see most of the room if it's so constructed.

I think she could verify that. But he's also so gracious that even though that's his preference, if we go to a restaurant and we're with a group of people and someone has organized it and they tell you, you know, where to sit. You know those people that are like that, like my mother. And she'll say, okay, Clint, you're going to be here. And Lisa, you're going to be here. And in that instance, he will do what the person asks him to do,

even if it's uncomfortable for him, because he doesn't want to make that person feel bad. Unless I can make a change, I realize it's acceptable, it's easily done. Right. But, yeah, you know, I'm not going to raise hell for, you just don't like to cause problems. Do you also observe other people, their behavior? Do you look at their waistline for weapons, stuff like that? Yeah, on an airline especially. I sit in the seat next to the aisle and I check everybody that comes on board after me.

And I try to get on board early, I mean, before most other people. So I can check them as they come on. I know what kind of clothes they have on. If there's anything unusual, then I find out where they're seated. So, I mean, old habits die hard. This will last in my entire life, yeah. I think almost every Secret Service agent who has retired is the same way. Have you ever gotten on a plane and just, you know, nailed the marshal?

I know who the marshal is on the plane. Can you pick those guys out or gals? Sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. They're real good ones, no, you can't. Right. The ones that aren't too good. Yeah, you can't.

Next book, Travels with Mrs. Kennedy. We're looking at October. That's correct. The release date is supposed to be in October of this year. Great. And it's a different book, Mike. The whole thesis, it started out. We were, as I think a lot of people will be able to relate to this.

Clint had his home in Alexandria that he had lived in for nearly 50 years. It was just filled with stuff. Your mom and dad went through this recently when they had downsized. So it's like, what do you do with all this stuff? He was going to sell the house, put it on the market, and he just didn't even want to deal with it. This was in 2019, right before COVID hit fall of 2019. So we went back to that house to go through everything.

And he wanted to just call 1-800 got junk. And I said, you know, there might be some stuff here that you might want. Let's see. And he's like, no, I got everything out of here that I needed. The one thing that he never had been able to find was the medal that had been given him after the assassination. He had stuck it in a box somewhere because he didn't care about it. He didn't know where it was.

And I said, that metal is in this house somewhere. I don't want to see it on eBay or, you know, in a trash dump somewhere. I think we need to find it. So we spent a week going through everything in that house. And that's kind of what this book is about, is we found all of these memorabilia. There was a trunk that said Clinton J. Hill, the White House. And he goes, I don't know.

I haven't seen it in 50 years. He didn't know what was in it. And so we opened it up. And that's what the book is about, is finding all of these memories and pieces of memorabilia and gifts. from Jackie Kennedy. And as we find them, he then tells me the stories about each of these things

and the travels they were on. And these are all stories that he hasn't told before because he hadn't, all these things sparked these memories. So I love this book and it has over 200 photographs in it and many that have never been seen before. So we're excited about it. It's so unique. Is that a good salespin? And you know, Mrs. Kennan,

Business is getting. He spent a lot of time away from the White House. And so this covers her travels in the United States, but also all were Europe, Southeast Asia. We went down to, like, Mexico, South America, Morocco. On On Onassis's yacht. Tehran. We were all with work. I promised I wouldn't drag you past an hour, and we're like in an hour 20. So I'm just such a fan.

Honestly, it's such a privilege to have you in close proximity to have met you the way we have. And the fact, Lisa, that you literally opened a book. You opened a book that had been closed for nearly half a century. It's a treasure trove of information and wisdom and fun and candor and the fact that you just Forrest Gumped your way across a trunk that says Clinton Hill, the white, House? I mean, it's just terrific. I can't wait to read it. People should know two, five presidents

is still out there. So all this stuff is still in print, Chuck. Is there a, what's the right website for it? You want to go to Clint Hill Secret Service.com. You can get autographed copies of their books there. If you want to follow Clint and Lisa, it's Clint Hill Secret Service on Facebook, Lisa McCubbin author on Facebook. And Instagram and Twitter are both. at Clint Hill underscore SS and at Lisa McCubbin, MCC, UBB-I-N. Did I get that right? You did. That's amazing.

You did. Yes, follow us and follow Clint, and he'll keep you up to date. Sure. We can. We should do this again sometime, Mike. All right. Let's do it tomorrow. We love our idea of a podcast.

We just need a producer. We need someone to hold our hands. So we need a Chuck. Yeah. Mike doesn't recommend me. You careful what you wish for, Lisa. Honestly. No, you guys are terrific.

Thank you for being so generous worth your time. Happy President's Day. I just thought it would be a nice way to circle back. Was it 2018 or 2019 that this whole craziness started? Three years ago, you told me earlier, I think. I think it was three years ago. Was that 2019? I think it was 19, technically.

Yeah. Yeah. If I'm doing that math, right? Yeah. So funny. So many little coincidences. This book, Chuck, was the one I wrote about and posted about, not really fully understanding that my editor at Simon & Schuster is the editor for this book.

Right. Right. So, yeah, I mean, it's just. And they had to print more because of that post. Yeah, they had to print more. Yeah, it's good. It went, because of that post, it went back on the New York Times bestseller list. So it was printed in 2016, and it had been on the New York Times bestseller list.

list. Now, three years later, so yeah, it was 2019, goes back. And that was when Michelle Obama's book was out, and Andrew McCabe had just come out with a book that day, and he was all over the media. And because of your post, Mike, five presidents went number one on Amazon, knocking Andrew McCabe to number two and Michelle Obama to number three. Oh, as it should be. Good. So let's do that. yet. Let's do that again. We will. Don't hang up. We've got to make sure this thing uploads, but let me just say again, it's been great catching up with you guys. What can I say? You're an inspiration. Come on over, Clint sometime. Come on over, drop by. Just if I remember right,

it's two parts, Campari, one part vodka, and a little bit of soda water. Orange, too, isn't it? You got it. And a slice of orange in a tall glass. I told you, Chuck. class with a little bit. This is a man so secure in his manhood. He can drink a pink drink that isn't really pink. It's red, Mike. It's wonderful. Very refreshing. Thank you both very much for being here. It was a pleasure meeting you and being in your house. When was it last year? Two years ago? I don't even know how long ago. Last year. Last year. Okay. Come on back. Come on back to see us. All right. I haven't found the China. Or the silver. All righty. See all next week.

Thanks. Okay. Bye, Mike. The ocean delights us. Some marvel at the colorful world below the surface. The ocean feeds us. Others find nourishment in its bounty. The ocean teaches us how our everyday choices impact even the deepest places.

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