The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 265: Tyrus—I've Been Fired Too Many Times to be Cocky

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

George T. Murdoch, a.k.a. Tyrus, joins TWIHI to discuss everything from abortion and the benefits of staying in one's lane, to work ethic and his weird fascination with the 'Squatch shows.

What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Skypop protein soda with 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and 45 calories. Skypop protein soda offers four delicious flavors with big taste and real benefits. Light, refreshing, and ready for wherever your day takes you. It's anytime protein that helps you reach higher. Skypot protein soda, reach for the sky. Get your Skypot protein soda now at Target, Ralph's, or GoPuff. Well, it's episode number 265, the way I heard it.

This one was a tough call, Chuck. We're going back and forth between, I've been fired too many times to be cocky, and I'm a second-rate general in a tin-cup dictatorship. I love them both, but I think the first one really speaks to Mr. Murdoch's ethos. Yes, I believe it does. Well, then let's make it official.

What you're about to hear, folks, is episode 265, the way I heard it. I've been fired too many times to be cocked, My guest is George T. Murdoch. And if that name is not familiar, let me describe him for you and see if perhaps a face springs to mind. Yes. He's six feet six inches tall. No, that's incorrect.

He's six eight. Well, it says here, six six. So he's so tall that he's grown two inches in just the last couple of seconds. So he's between six six and six eight. according to your notes, Chuck. Of course it's a typo. It's a typo because it's on a page you sent me. Yes, yes.

He's 6.8. I'm certainly 6.8. Even mentions it during the conversation. And it says here 370 pounds. Is that accurate or is it 470 or 570? He's actually 37 pounds. He's very, very small. My guest today is George T. Murdoch.

He stands 6 feet 8 inches tall when he's standing. He weighs 370 pounds when he's, well, all the time. I suppose. All the time. Yeah. He loves animals. In particular, he loves killer whales and leopard seals and big dogs. He is of African-American and Scottish descent.

He was a zoology major in college, but football took up most of his time, so he switched to theater and education. Did I mention he loves animal documentaries? He does, especially those narrated by David Attenborough. You know why I love David Attenborough, Chuck? Why is that? because for many years, the Discovery Channel repurposed everything he narrated for the American audience and hired me to replace him. So you're indebted to him for all that work.

I mean, dozens of hours of narration. And what a crime. I mean, David Attenborough, I mean, one of the best narrators in the world and so British, you know, and so believable. But hang on a second. I mean, he does speak English. Why didn't they just use him in America? They just believed that the audience would cozy up quicker to an American voice, someone with a rich, well-modulated baritone, who wasn't David Attenborough. Anyway, not the decision I would have made, folks, but I was happy for the work. Anyway, George T. Murdoch includes among his role models and heroes, Lou Farigno from The Incredible Hulk, and Jimmy Walker from Good Times. And yes, he wrestled professionally under the names Brodney.

is Clay and Funkasaurus. Do you give up? I already know. Tell him who is. Tell him. Go ahead. Tell him. It's Tyrus. Tirus. The Fox Personality, Tyrus, the wrestler, the football player, the actor, Tyrus. The philosopher.

This guy, I mean, I've been watching him on the TV, along with many of you for a long time. He's enormous. He doesn't look like anybody else on cable news. He wears his hats backwards, and he speaks his mind. and he really is not terribly concerned, it seems, about the opinions of others, but he's very respectful and mannerly. I sat in on Gutfeld's show a couple months ago, I guess, when I was over there promoting something or other, and we had a great chat in the hallway, and we exchanged contact.

I said I'd love to do his podcast, and he said he'd love to do mine. And promise made is a debt unpaid. Here he is making good on his word. I love this conversation, Chuck. I loved everything about it. I did too. I was so excited to have him on. And as you know, we were supposed to record him yesterday, but current events got in the way, unfortunately. Yes, yes. And we do talk about the snafu that kept Tyrus from joining us yesterday's schedule. But that's neither here or there. Because he was here today. The conversation is now forever stored away in bits and bites. And I think it's a really good one. And you're about to listen to it. Anything you want to add, Chuck?

No, man, you're doing such a great job. I don't even know why you asked me. Stop talking. He's written a great book, which I don't really plug properly until the very end, but it's called Just Tyrus, a memoir, number one on Amazon, New York Times bestselling. It's an incredible read. We don't really talk about it much in detail, but we talk about everything else. My God.

We talk about it all, Chuck. We do. Why don't we just get to it? What do you say? I'd like to stretch this out even first. further. I don't know why. I don't know why. All right. Well, then, it's episode 265. I've been fired too many times to be cocky with the one and only George T. Murdoch. Right after this. Well, people are still raving, raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest

Pure Talk commercial. And if you haven't seen it, I encourage you to give it a look on my Facebook page and read the comments. They're hysterical. In this commercial, you'll not only see Peggy Roe gently criticizing her oldest son for his longstanding and well-established commitment issues. You'll learn about the latest offer from Pure Talk, which includes unlimited talk text and data for just $3499 a month with no contracts and no commitments of any kind. You can see why I love these guys. If, on the other hand, you have better things to do with your time than watch my mom and me be impossibly charming together, then allow me to remind you, here, without all the cleverness and charm, that unlimited talk, text and data on a blazing, fast

network for just 3499 a month really is an unmitigated bargain from an American wireless company that keeps all their customer service in this country, supports our veterans in a meaningful way, as well as the MicroWorks Foundation, and allows me to exploit my own mother. in a national advertising campaign. Do what my mom did. Get yourself unlimited high-speed data for just $34.99 a month. At puretalk.com slash row. You can switch in as little as 10 minutes at puretalk.com slash row.

Pure Talk. I guess we're good. Well, if Ross says it sounds good, it's got to be good. It has to be. We're up. Tyrus. Man, it's an honor and a pleasure to be on with you. Just to let you know, big fan.

I think you changed my outlook on work ethic from watching all your stuff growing up. And so I really appreciate this opportunity today. Well, that's about the nicest thing you could have said to me, because Chuck, in his role of impersonating a producer, actually put together a couple of pages of stuff. And as you can see, he actually highlighted one area. And it's, you should really talk to Tyrus about work ethic. He actually values this to an extraordinary degree.

that is on my list of things to talk to you about in this one-hour romp into extemporaneous dialogue. Phenomenal. Yeah, I, I'm stoked, man. Like, my buddies today, because I do, you know, I'm training right now for, I got a big match at the end of the month. And my buddies were like, hey, man, can you do this today? It's like, no, man, I'm on with Mr. Roe. They're like, you're the job's got. How did you get that?

I said, I got it. Don't hate the game. A guy named Chuck texted him. Yeah, you know. No, actually, you know what happened? One of the first or maybe the second time I was on Gutfeld's show, we wrapped it up, and we were just in the hallway, and you were headed to something, and I was headed to something. You were very kind, and you just said some really decent things, and I said, well, man, we should do this at some point. Yeah, I remember.

And you said, oh, yeah. You said, that will happen. And then you wrote a book, and then stuff happens, and it took it. time, but I mean, I got so many questions, dude, but honestly, right now, given the fact that we tried to do this yesterday and it didn't work out, I have this feeling that everybody over there right now is on a super short leash and anything could happen at any time. And a guy who's essentially a utility player like you can get called onto any show at any moment to just like weigh in. And I think what I want to ask you is, are you used to that? Are you used to that? Are you used to having to form a cogent opinion on everything all the time and constantly be in some sort of

standby mode? The one thing I do that I think is different. I don't know if it's necessarily the greatest career choice is if I don't feel that I'm verse in the subject, I say no. I find it just spouting your mouth off about things. It's counterproductive. And you weigh like, oh, it's FaceTime in front of the TV or whatever. If there's something like that has to do with economic numbers and stuff like that,

I would rather concede to a Charles Payne or someone of that magnitude. If you ask me how I feel about inflation, then I'll give you my best educated guess. But I try to treat this the same way as I've treated like my athletic career and stuff. I'm a film study guy. So one of the reasons why being out here focused by myself, I probably spend four hours a day film study, watching everything, reading everything. I just, you have to be prepared. And 90% of the time I won't get asked on anything.

But if I am asked, and I do feel confident that I can give a, it's still an opinion, but I think there's such a thing as an educated opinion. I'm not a big fan of expressing feelings about stuff because sometimes feelings can turn into fake facts for people. And we have way too much of that today. So I try not to participate in those things. Well, feelings are cheap, obviously. Yes.

And easy. And easy, exactly. And anybody who values work ethic to the extent that you do has to be somewhat suspicious of anything that's easy. And yet, I've been in that building many, many, many, many times, as well as CNN and MSNBC and all of them. And I just always leave with this feeling that everybody in there is very hesitant to do exactly what you just said, which is to say, I don't know if you don't know, or even worse. You know what? I haven't had time to think about it.

This raid on Trump's place, right? I mean, by the time this thing drops, it'll be a week and a half old, we're right in the midst of this. And the feelings come fast and furious, but to formulate a cogent thought and share it on live TV in a responsible way, just talk about how difficult that must be for so many people. The problem is, is that you're one common away from being the flavor of the month. You can all of a sudden be the most sought out loose cannon on the planet with just one soundbite. But here's a perfect example. We don't know necessarily what was on the search warrant yet.

We don't know the things behind it. We just know that it seemed intrusive and a little bit overkill was my gut feeling on it. But what I did know and what I could talk about was, the response from everyday people and that when you get, and if you are a Trump supporter, if you're a libertarian, something like this is extremely disturbing. And the response that it was being looked for was an aggressive one. And it almost feels like certain media outlets were fanning the fire in the hopes to get some aggressive responses. I mean, quoting switchboards and people saying stuff on social media and having people come on going, this could be a civil war I felt was grossly irresponsible.

So I focused on the response and my response was respond at the ballot box. President Trump doesn't need you to fight his battles. This has happened before. We've been hitting the mouth. I believe I made it. I talked about a spite store. This will be a spite presidency. But make sure that you stay the course and let your voice be heard at the ballot box.

protesting outside of a building or turning into riot or looting, it hurts everyone and it proves the other side right. And I think it's important that that was what I focused on. Because like I said, we have no idea how this is going to turn out. It could be much to do about nothing. So far historically with President Trump, most of these investigations have ended up being absolutely about nothing. But I think it's important that when you have that voice and there is emotionally charged things that the first thing that you preach is civility. No matter how much it bothers me or I'd be upset if my house was searched like that, if my wife's belongings were gone through, that's a lot.

For former president of United States, it's even more embarrassing. So I understand the rage and anger, but I think it's important from the chair that I'm sitting in to remain common, not to get into it, but that we've kind of, in this first world thing where it's like go out and ruin stuff and attack stuff and burn stuff down, you're only making the problem worse and the people on the other side going, aha, see, told you. And that's what they want. I've been very surprised at the positive reaction that I've gotten. I haven't got a lot of people who were like, no, we need to do this. We need to storm that. We need to hold them. I was a lot of like, yes, I'll see you at the ballot box. And I think that's important because we need to keep an eye on the prize.

Wouldn't it be interesting, though, if everybody on cable news did that? First of all, it would be bad for you because you wouldn't be able to distinguish yourself by being the incredibly reasonable fellow that you are. And it would be terribly confusing for the viewers to all of a sudden flick around and have everybody talking in a well-measured, even tone, encouraging people to take the long view and not overreact. It would be so universally shocking and upsetting

that I don't know that it could ever happen. And I'm not even sure that it should, but I do know that without voices like you, yours. And I'm fine with being irrelevant because my whole thing is common sense. So if everyone has it and I'm not needed, I happen to know a guy who's got to hook up with a lot of jobs. So I'm sure I'm sure I can find something in my wheelhouse. So but my point is, I mean, surely you understand what the reverse commute is. Yeah. And for a guy in the cable news business, which is essentially a mad scramble, a goat rodeo to be relevant,

to sit back and casually say, I don't need to be relevant. That, I think, you can tell me, but you've done a lot of conscious things to get to the place where you are today, and going against the grain must be somewhere near the top of the list. I've tried to do, I've tried to be what people have wanted me to be or say what gets you the most attention or fake respect. And I always had an empty feeling, and you could never fill it. It's always, you're always going to have to do more and more than one day you have no idea who you are

and you look back at what you did for a buck, you know, and it typically affects you across the board. Your friends are gone. You're estranged from your family because you need the approval of strangers. And I think growing up in certain situations to where the most valuable people around you always tell it to you straight. And you don't want someone around you who's always going to tell you a good job when it's not. And I've failed a lot. And I've been through the worst of failing.

And at this point, my career is not defined by my television, you know, being on television and stuff. Like you get cut from football, it's over. And you've got to figure out something else. And then you get cut from wrestling or acting. If you chose to be in entertainment, if you choose to be in front of that camera, you need to understand that 99% of us end up fired. You know, and even a few of us that get to retire, it's forced. So they allow you to go out with dignity. And I think if you look at it in that perspective, you have no choice but to be.

And it's so much easier. I don't need a writer or anyone to tell me what to say. I'm prepared. And if I'm not, I'm okay with saying I'm not. Perfect example. and it's a touchy situation, the whole abortion crisis, I took a week off of work because I just didn't feel that I had a place to speak on that. And I didn't want to speak on that because it's such a strong, sensitive, emotional feeling.

And my thoughts are mine. And as a man, I just felt like that's just not something that I wanted to engage in. So I took my ball and went home. I'll come back when it clears off and we can talk about it. And there was opportunities for me, I'm sure, to get on the right side of the fence. But again, I just felt like this is not my fight. There's other experts who are closer to it that I think they should have that mic time. Do you feel now that some time has gone by?

Do you feel more engaged? Do you feel like you have permission or do you even want permission to weigh in? My thing has always been the same thing. I just don't think anyone should tell a woman what she should do with her body or me, for that matter. But at the same time, I just feel like we lost our way. It used to be, no matter what side you were on, it started with this is a horrible decision. This is a horrible situation. And the word has turned into now a right of passage, almost like an award.

I'm not comfortable with that. I don't like that. It's still no one who goes through that is happy about it. And I think we forgot that. I think we demonize women who feel that they got put in that person. position and have to make that tough choice, I feel like we got away from that. And it became a political issue when it's about feelings. And having experienced a situation like that, similar in college where a girlfriend I was dating had made that decision and I was powerless in it.

And all I could do was support. But I remember, as upset as I was, she had to live with that decision and the regret and, you know, people make those choices. And I think we just forgot about the emotional toll that's involved in it and we're so quick to attack people on both sides of the defense. So I just felt like, you know what? I really don't feel like I should, I have a voice in this because what I have to say is really unsupportive on both sides. I'm in the middle on a subject that is just so politically charged that we forgot about this is not something that anyone's embracing or exciting about. This isn't an award. This is a horrible decision for somebody that no matter which way they decide, they have to live with those consequences for the

rest of life. And the last thing they need to be is to be demonized and picked on it. And then the other side of it, acting like this great thing is horrible. So I just felt like I need to stay out of it and I did. It's just, you know, it's an amazingly nuanced position for a guy who's essentially paid to have an opinion because what you're saying is sometimes my opinion is I don't have an opinion. Yeah, and that's sometimes the best opinion is sometimes we have a, to shut up and listen. Well, let's go back to what you said before, which I totally agree. 99% of the people in this industry are not going to leave under their own desire, right?

Right. But 100% of us are going to be defined by who somebody else thinks we are. Yes. That's the thing that I think I really most want to talk to you about because you know my show. You've watched me. Oh, yeah. Religiously. All right. So you formed an opinion of me. Yes, I did. And I'm, I'll just ask you, what is it? Like, what do you assume from watching dirty jobs about me?

So what I picked up on, the word that comes to mind when I think of you, I always think of integrity. I always admired the fact that every person on your show was treated with the same dignity and respect. no matter how challenging or discussing the job was, there was never a moment where you said something to where I thought, oh, man, I would never do that job. And I always felt that that was a powerful thing, and it transcended into different things. When you see somebody who's able to not only be the smartest guy in the room, but uplift everyone else around him to a positive show

where everyone feels better after a job that, you know, you're so focused on the job, but you get to know the person and the community behind it. And that's a gift. And then the worst thing can happen is you put a word like integrity on someone like yourself. And then I meet you and you're a complete ass. Well, I got... Stick around.

No, but I got a chance to meet him and just we talked. And I was like, he's exactly how I thought he would be, which is refreshing because that's why the show was successful, because you were true to yourself. and whenever you can be yourself in front of the camera and turn it up a few degrees, because you've got to turn it up a little bit, people relate and connect because you're being real. And they can identify with that.

So I think that was the thing that I was most, I liked you a lot when I met you and got to be on the show. I was like, I'm glad that I spent that hour on Sunday nights watching that show because he's exactly what I thought he was. And it's not always been like that. You know, you meet somebody and you're like, oh, man, I can't believe. You know, I hate this guy. But no, integrity.

Thank you. And the feeling is mutual. But having said that, you answered that question through the lens of character, and I appreciate it. Let me tell you what I get a lot of, because the show has been on 20 years now, and people really feel that in watching it, they own a piece of it. And they're right. They do. But no matter how many times on that show, I point out that I don't really have the handy gene, right? people today think I can build or fix or repair anything.

There's not a single episode. I mean, I'm a dilettante, Tyrus. I'm an apprentice. And I do it day after day after day after day. And yet today, people have this assumption that because they saw me surrounded by the trappings of work, that I can build a house without a blueprint, like my pop good. Now I can't do that. And then they learn sometimes, or they assume maybe that, well, based on everything I've seen on this show,

Mike has got to be a hardcore pro-union guy, period, and stop. And then they learned that I sang in the opera 35 years ago, and they're very confused. And then I did some time on the home shopping network, and their heads explode. So you're not real. You're not the guy that we thought you were. And what I'm trying to get at is, if that happens to me, you know, if those assumptions are hung on me simply because I pop up crawling through a sewer. What is it like for you?

What assumptions? You know what I'm asking. Yeah. The biggest thing for me is I do the shopping in my house. So I do the grocery shopping in my house, right? And badge of honor. And when I go into the supermarket and I'm shopping, I will, why are you shopping? Why wouldn't I?

Did you have somebody to do that for you? Yeah. You know, and they're like, well, but you're on TV. You have a hit show. Like, yeah, but I don't run my house. So I do my chores. When I'm at my kids' games and I'm just sitting there attentively watching my kids play and they'll come up to me and they'll be like, hey, let's talk politics. And I'm just dad right now.

I wear a lot of hats. And sometimes the disconnect is people are shocked at how normal because they expect grand things or they expect, you know, like is gutfeld with you. Like, no, he lives in New York. Why would he be with me? Like, show's over. Yeah, you know. Or they'll be waiting for me to entertain them. Or I have some kind of inside track to president or, hey, get this to Brett Baer for me.

Yeah, I'm actually going to have breakfast with him on Air Force 4 tomorrow. You know, I get a lot of manifestos. I get a lot of, you need to get this to the right people to expose, a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff. And I'll be like, look, man, I'm just trying to make sure. I get the right fat, reduced ground chuck and the proper egg noodles because I'm going to catch hell if I grab the ones. You know, if I grab the wrong cheese with doesn't have 2% milk in it, I'm focused on that. So I think a lot of times they get a little shock to how down to earth and normal is a weird word. But like just a regular guy that I am, I think they expect a lot of the glitz and gland that they see with what they presume or they assume is mega success.

and stardom. So I get it. I can see that where that would come from. I love stories like this. Seven years ago, a guy named Ben Still was a musician. He had zero interest in running a food company, but he was annoyed that so much imported meat was being deceptively marketed and labeled as domestic and decided to fix the problem.

The result was a company called Good Ranchers, It's a completely honest, totally transparent meat company that deals directly with American farms and ranches and promises to deliver high-quality American-grown meat for a fair price. Today, that promise. And Ben's absolute determination to keep it has not only propelled good ranchers into the top tier of meat delivery companies, it's fueled enormous awareness among meat eaters like me that we have all been affirmatively deceived by policies that allow imported meat to be marketed. as domestic. That's the reason I switched to good ranchers. If I'm being honest, though, I doubt that I would have stayed this long had the quality not been so exceptional. Every single cut I've devoured from good ranchers has been straight up delicious and every morsel was raised on a small American farm or ranch. Give them a try. Subscriptions are affordable and flexible.

In fact, if you start your plan today, you'll get free meat for life and $40 off. your first order. Just use code mic at good ranchers.com. Free meat for life, 40 bucks off your first order. Good ranchers.com. American meat delivered. If you could eat a steer, if you could eat a cow, don't take a chance on a foreign ranch, get good ranchers now. When did you realize that TV could define and redefine and completely shape you if you let it? And not even to suggest you have the power to keep it from doing that. But do you remember when you first realized you had a tiger by the tail?

Okay. So when I was in the WWE, I look like a killer. In the ring, I'm extremely aggressive. And I pick a guy up and throw him, the crowd terrified. And they'll flip to the crowd and you see a little girl covering her face, you know, and a dad trying to stay strong for his son. And then I was really good at what they call mean mugging. I can burn a hole through somebody.

Now, when I was bodyguarding for Snoop, I would often intimidate before I would have to be physical. It's a bluff. You're peacocking, you know? My peacock gang was strong. When Triple H, I made a joke in the locker room and it got back to Vince McMahon and I was running these vignettes and I was collecting things. After I beat somebody, I would take a piece like their outfit or their hair or their trinket or whatever and I would keep it. You know, it was something I did when I was bodyguarding and I'd put a guy down for acting.

and out, I would take a trophy. You know, it was like a thing, and the guy's got a kick out of it. So, but in the locker room, funny, you know, and those who have been on the show with me know that I tend to crack jokes in real life. And, but I liked being a killer on TV. I like that. I like being that guy. Well, Vince had a different, he's like, he's funny, so maybe we should make him funny.

Like, maybe we should use his charisma in front of the camera, so let's make him a baby face. And anyone who spent any time with Vince McMahon, knows that he really loves to sing and dance. Like, I think wrestling was just a thing for him to maybe be the next Frank Sinatra. It was like a vessel. Right. So he decided I needed to dance and come out to the ring, smiling and stuff. And it was the most mortifying idea I had ever heard in my life.

And I remember AAA says that, listen, it's not me. Maybe he'll change his mind. So this character was created, this Funkasaurus, where I had to go out and sing and dance. And then worst of all, I had to let kids come in the ring and dance with me. after my matches. And I was, oh, man, I thought to, like, I was thinking about quitting. I got to get out of this. Like, bodyguard, football player, street tough, credit, all gone.

And then I did it. And, you know, Dusty Rose was a big influence to help me to do it because he was punished too. I didn't realize it was a punishment. I was like, wait a minute. He's like, well, I had to wear polka dots. And I was, you know, the NWA champion. You saying you're better than me. You can't wear polka dots.

I'm saying I'm not wearing. and polka dots. But he did one better. I had to wear red. So I looked like Kool-Aid going out there. But when I did it and the crowd reacted and the kids reacted and this bigger-than-life character happened, I was like, if I can do this and get through this and learn to appreciate this, I can do anything in front of the camera. And the camera is not that scary. When you're forced to do something that you would only do for like friends or like a daughter or your son, or something, and you do it in front of millions of people for three years, you have a very different vision of the camera and being in front of the camera.

You're no longer afraid of the camera because they've seen you, it's bad enough for us. You're in spandex anyways. So, I mean, to say the word naked is a stretch, but literally you've had to bear yourself and be something you would never normally be. Once you've accomplished something like that, all of a sudden, you kind of have this thing, like, I'm just going to, when I do it my way, I'm just so relaxed because I don't have the fear. I'm never going to be in that red spandex outfit walking that aisle for the first time. Right.

You know what I'm saying? And once you go through that, it's powerful. And you realize that you don't have to be outside that box. And then when you finally get to a place where you get to call your shots in front of the camera, you can just be yourself. There's no reason to you've gone the extremes of character and craziness, and you can pull it in, you can pull it back, you can be this, you can be that. And that is very healthy for you then to remember who you are when you're not in front of the camera. And you can go back to being who you are.

So it kind of like draws this line between whoever you are in front of the camera has to be a personified version of yourself, I think, for it to be anything of value to people. But once you've gone through that and you're able to deal with that, the camera is actually not a big deal anymore because you're in control of yourself. And everything becomes a variation on some kind of a theme. Like, I would love if you can make some sort of connection between the appeal of the world of wrestling and the appeal of the world of cable news, the characters that emerge, the personas that maybe are certainly, as you said, amped up, but sometimes,

completely fabricated. Sometimes wildly exaggerated. So, I mean, have you ever... The heroes and the villains. Yes. Heroes and villains and anchors you root for and commentators you love to hate. The way Roger crafted the five at the very beginning. There's always one bad guy.

Poor Geraldo, right? Poor Heraldo, you know, Beckle. Is there some weird corollary between Vince McMahon and Roger Ailes between Sean Hannity and Triple H and so forth and so. A thousand percent. Here's how you bring it all together. The reason why wrestling is so emotionally connecting, and unlike boxing or the NFL, because you see them every week.

They're always there. There are no days off. And the theater, and you grow with them. And when they start, you're there, and you see them every week. And as they grow, as the character grows, it becomes a part of who you are. Fans. They get it every week. it becomes like you're part of the family.

There is no off-season. Yes, soap barbers do the same thing. They bring you in, you're hooked, and they're always there for you. When you're a guy then, you start to, everything they say is like almost, it's like your favorite football team, your favorite church, your favorite guy. Then there's the guy who comes on and says the exact opposite of what your favorite guy says, so you boo him. It's the grandest theater.

We call it baby faces in heels. one of the things I always say before you go out and have a match is they're like, well, who are they going to cheer for? And how are you going to handle this if they boo you? They don't tell me, I tell them. I pull the strings. I'll let them know who the good guy is and the bad guy is and they'll react. And TV's the same thing.

When you're going through your storyline and you know that you've got a red meat crowd, you realize at that moment that is this the time where I start talking about how actually I'm good with pantsuits? No, you don't. You go the other way and say, I can't stand pantsuits, and guess what? They're going to cheer. And if you do it enough, they'll cheer. And then here's where I've gotten different because sometimes I'll just say, you know what,

I like pantsuits just to keep them off their toes because you bring them in. And sometimes there's no, hey, there's nothing wrong with a good pantsuit. But it's about the manipulation of emotions and feelings. and Sean Hannity would be a phenomenal wrestler. No question, no doubt he could be the bad guy, he could be the good guy, because he is strong in his convictions, and people love that. They love people who are strong, confident, and charismatic, and whether they love them or hate him,

because the ones who hate him can't stop watching him. They watch him just to get him to mix up, and you bring them in. We're all fishermen. If you have the lure of charisma and you bring them in, you got them. because they'll be back every week. Fox News fans, wrestling fans are the same as any sport fan. They come back to root for their team. And unless you betray that, and we've gone through that

where a story hasn't gone the way that the masses thought. I mean, the Arizona thing. Oh, man, Fox was the one who called Arizona. It was like, I will never watch again. You betrayed me. And then they'd be mad at you for like three months. And then it's just like, you know, we were the pretty girlfriend that they never got over in high school.

And she just got a new Facebook page. They unfollowed us for a little while. But then eventually, you know, you get a new friend request and they just move on from it. But that's because you become part of the culture. It's cultural. Part of being grown up, I think, is being able to deal with cognitive dissonance. And we're just not that grown up anymore. I mean, Mike Roe can't be a former opera singer and be the host of Dirty Jobs.

It just doesn't fit. You know, you mentioned, Sean, I'm going to be on a show this week, actually. I'm bringing my mom to New York. Hopefully our paths will cross. I'm going to be there Monday and Tuesday. She's got a book. I'm there on Tuesdays. Great.

I'm on Sean's radio show one time a couple of years ago, and we actually kind of not really heated, but we were disagreeing over a couple of headlining things. And I try and stay in my lane, and I wasn't owning it the way he wanted me to own it. And so I asked him, I said, look, I know where you're coming from. We all know where you're coming from, but is this persuasive?

Is what you're saying right now going to persuade anybody who's in the middle or who is genuinely trying to think through this issue. And he actually didn't have a great answer for me. And I went ahead to make my point and then we went to a break. And then I left feeling, I wasn't sure how I felt. But on my Facebook page, a lot of his fans came over, Tires, and they all said the same thing. They said, what you have to understand about Sean is that we're not listening to him to be persuaded. We're already persuaded.

We're already in. We're the choir. We're in. And we come to him. We come to him the same reason people go to the church to hear the sermon. If you want to find people to persuade, you've got to listen to another show and you've got to have another conversation. And you know what? They were right.

And it's to your point. You don't go to a wrestling match to watch or listen to opera. You don't listen to Sean's show to hear a nuanced of. middle of the road argument. No. And so all these different things are for sale, and then here you come into the mix, saying, I don't much care if I'm not, you know, relevant. That's equally extraordinary.

You know, I've never been on Sean's show, but I have, when I first came to Fox, he was one of the most welcoming people here. And a lot of people, because they see him fiery Sean Hannity, but he's the type of guy that, like, would give you the shirt off his back. Now, him and I ideologically, we would agree on some things. but a lot of things I'm not taking as seriously as he does. But as far as people go, he's a really good guy. But when he was building, when he was on,

when him and Combs were together, rest his soul, that's where he was building his base. And that's the rise. And that's kind of like the same thing of wrestling where you debut and you start out and you're just on different shows and you're building an audience and you're building your base

and they're growing with you. And by the time Sean Hannity had his own show, he already had this mass. massive following, Rush Limbaugh, same thing. You know, other side of you look at like Rachel Maddow or Don Lemon or whomever, just like wrestling, you have to build the card. You just don't show up and you're on the main event. You got to build it.

This to me is so interesting because you build the card, Sean becomes Sean squared, becomes Sean to the fifth power, becomes Hannity and so forth and so forth. And here you are going on this very similar path. you can stare holes through somebody. You're big, you're intimidating, you're a killer in the ring, and all of a sudden you're instructed to play not just a different role, but against type.

Yes. And I wonder if Vince McMahon might have done you a huge favor. Oh, he did. 1,000 percent, because here's the thing, anybody can play a tough guy. That's what I learned. All you got to do is be quiet. and stare at people. I'm not going to win many Emmys for that, you know, but he forced me to be outside the box,

and he also forced me to look within myself. Why did I always want to be the angry guy? Because I was an angry person. And something about when you were forced to smile and make people happy, it kind of has a trickle-down effect, and you're able to look at things differently. And so, yeah, 1,000 wouldn't be where I'm at in terms of balance. I think that's the thing is that I have a lot of. lot of balance. And I, just from the experience of having failed so many times at chasing things I

wanted to do, I don't have the sense of urgency or I have to say the right thing or I have to be right or they have to like me. I found people like my lane is I can't be a Sean Hannity. That's just, I can't do that. But I can be Tyrus. And Tyrus is a guy who politics is second. And I'm looking at life and how it affects me, and that's my lane, and that's where people connect. I have a voice that's different than everybody else's. I dress different than everybody else's because my message is other things are more important, but we still need to be in the know, but we don't have to get to the point where we're become a tribe.

Like there's no tense in my mindset, you know, and when you see my, quote, fan base, I'll have one guy sitting in the front row who looks like he just got out of a gangster rap concert, and then he'll be sitting next to a blue-haired lady with a cane, but guess who has the worst mouth? It's the lady. So that comes from being that melting pot and that role. I looked around and I'm like, this is how I feel about politics in general.

This is who I am. So I can be the best me at that. And if that works, great. And if it doesn't work, that's also great because I was true to myself. I did my best. And here's the best part. if it doesn't work out, I'm going to find something else to do.

It's not guaranteed. And that's the one thing that bothers me about entertainment. When things don't work out for people, they always want to lash out at the system. I always look at this as a house money job. Yeah. You get lucky to call it a career, but for most of us, it's a flash in the pan.

That's not a real, it's a career for a few. But for most of us, it's a few moments in the sunlight. then when it doesn't work out, you need to have backup plans. And I think that's one of the reasons why I liked your show so much. Being in entertainment, and sometimes you can feel when the knife is coming, you're not getting booked on TV, things are slowing down or whatever. Responses are not going the way you thought they would happen. Your ratings are down. You know, if you lose ratings in the show, you're going to get canceled.

Yep. But seeing like, wow, there's people who are literally working nine miles underground every day and showing up to work, I think I can find another. career outside of being in front of a camera. So that's how I look at it. Very grounded approach. The question is, where did that come from? Being fired. Absolutely, a crucible.

But the bigger answer, I think, is your book. And I don't want to ask you about it in too much detail because I know how exhausting it is. By the time you finally get the thing written, and by the time you're ready to promote it, you're so sick of talking about it, you're ready to throw yourself off a building. but there's so much in it that's important. And I heard Larry Ellison say something once that really stuck with me. Somebody asked him to not what his big break was, but to as succinctly as possible,

explain the proximate cause of his incredible success. And he didn't even hesitate. He said, oh, that's easy. When I was growing up, I had all of the necessary adversity to become the person I am. and I thought, holy crap, what a great way to talk around privilege and redefine, right? All of that stuff. And, man, I'll let you put it in whatever nutshell you want to put it in.

But to say that you got some difficult cards right from the jump would be understating it. Like I said, I didn't say it as eloquently as he did. My grandmother gave me, and it's probably the most powerful line in the book for me, I was just miserable. I was upset. I didn't like my stepfather. I was getting beat up a lot and I wanted out. But I was doing things, retaliating all the time and, you know, acting out at school.

And it wasn't fair because no one believed me that, you know, he was hitting me and stuff. And my grandmother just looked at me and says, it's not the punch in the mouth that you're judged by. It's your reaction. What are you going to do? That's all we see. We just see you reacting. And it's your reactions that you. you're judged by. So as soon as they don't get your reaction, it's not going to happen as much.

And to me, that was like, it's almost what was worse. Was it getting hit or was it spending five days mourning over it and ruining everything around me because I didn't have things going my way? And it made a lot of sense to me because once the bad moment was over, how whatever it was, circumstances, someone made fun of you because the way you look or whatever the case may be, I learned at a very young age that once it was over to shake it off, this sucks, I hate it, cry if I have to, I'll give myself two hours to be upset about it, and then I'm going to move on from it. And for me, I think that was something that just kind of followed me because you get cut from a football team, you want to blame the coach, you want to blame an injury, you want to

blame all these things, but those things won't change. But if you look in the mirror and be like, did I train the best? How many times I go to the club when I should have been getting my eight hours? And when you look at it that way, when the villain in the story is you, that's an easy fix. So I get it. Yeah, I had adversity, but I look at it more as an aggressive inspiration because I did not want to be in that situation anymore. And the only way, the only person was ever going to get me out was me.

There is no happy endings. It all can come down. Everything can change. But if your blueprint is always the same, no matter what it is. You know, being black a lot of times, you know, sometimes you'll hear, well, you know, they didn't like you because you were black. So what? They still hired me. So what happened?

Well, I was late three times a week. I didn't get my stuff in on time. So I already knew the guy didn't like me because of the way I looked. And now he doesn't like me for legitimate reason because I'm not producing and do what I need to do at work. So when I get fired, I still just want to stick on the one thing that I'm assuming he doesn't like me based on my appearance, opposed to I wasn't doing what I needed to do. And I'm just talking about my situations. If I look at every situation I was in and honestly broke it down and looked at myself, which I have, I created 90% of my problems, which means that I can solve 90% of them. And that's a good average.

Shameless plug Long before she was Peggy Roe, my mom was Peggy Noble daughter of Carl and Thelma Noble. It was her father, Carl, who inspired me to pitch a show called Dirty Jobs to the Discovery Channel and later start a foundation that honored the kind of work Carl Noble did for a living, trade work, skilled labor. That foundation is called MicroWorks,

and today I'm proud to tell you that we've helped thousands of people get the training they need to begin a career in the skilled trades. In fact, we'd love to help you. You can apply for a work ethic scholarship right now at microwworks.org. We've set aside $10 million for this year's applicants. Thanks to a number of very effective fundraisers, including the one with my grandfather's name on the label. I refer, of course, to Noble Tennessee Whiskey, K-N-O-B-E-L,

which is now available in a variety of delicious mash, bills, all of which you can peruse at noblespirates.com. In fact, if you spend 100 bucks and use code Carl, C-A-R-L, you'll get one tube of orange bitter-infused sugar cubes for free. That's code Carl with a C to get nine sugar cubes, ingeniously engineered to make nine perfect old-fashions every time. It's my favorite way to support Microworks and my favorite whiskey to sip responsibly after a long day of interviewing people on this podcast. Pick up a bottle at noblespirits.com, k-n-o-b-E-L-Spirits.com.

Soon may the noble men come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. Is it more important to give yourself credit when it's due or accept blame when it's due? I think it has to be a happy medium. I think when you do well, you should honor yourself. Now, that doesn't mean you go up on social media and tell everyone how great you are because that's something totally different.

I will take a moment to smell the roses. And it's an internal thing. Like, look what you did. A perfect example. I thought if I sold 500 books, I did something. Like, I wrote a book. If I could sell 500 books, that's pretty cool. When it was number one in Amazon, my publisher was like, you're number one in Amazon.

And I was like, okay. It means more than 500. You're selling a lot of books. More than 500. You're selling a lot of books. And you're number one for two weeks on Amazon and your New York Times bestseller. I took a moment where I just was just smiling and laughing at myself and feeling great, patting myself on the back. And then the next day I got up and got back to work.

You can't overdo anything. If you're always proud of yourself, you're not going to improve. And if you're always beating yourself up, you're going to stay there. So it has to be a happy medium, but I think it's more important to own your mistakes because that's the hardest thing to do is to look in the mirror and be like, I screwed up. Okay, how am I going to fix this? That goes back to what you said before. And can I just tell you that having seen you on TV and then having read your book,

I didn't need to hear from you that you look inwardly to see what you could have done wrong. Like I got that from you. I pick that up from you just seeing you. And now hearing you say it, I read it in your book, I've heard you say it, but that's the most amazing thing that people can do. I think there's two kinds of people, those who, when something happens in their world, they look outwardly and they say, well, what can I fix out here to make this better? And then there's other types of people who look inwardly and say, what could I have done differently in this situation? And I feel that you're the latter, and that's the better one. Spoiler alert. I just feel like you're going to have more success when you fix things within yourself.

And it's not the easiest path either. It's not. It's not. And there's because sometimes you're never going to change somebody's mind. You know, you're never going to, if someone's convinced that the way I dress and the way I talk is not conducive to what they feel a successful TV show is or a guy like me shouldn't be a lead in a comedy, there's nothing I can do about that situation. But what I can do is get better at my craft and go. somewhere else and find a different outlet because he's not the only person in the world. But if I stay on trying to fix him and get this director to like me and to give me a chance and throw away all my dignity and everything I have for this one person, this one agent,

to say, okay, I'll give you a chance. I'm no better off than I was. But at least if I know when you fix it within, when you look at the landscape, WWE said, you know what, we're going to move on from Brodus. And I could have spent the next year trying to get Triple H to give me another job. I've seen it. I could show up at events. I could send them emails.

Or I could take the lessons I learned from the WWE and I'm going to go somewhere else. I'm going to end up being louder than them. And I'm happy to report as much as I love the WWE, I kick their ass in the ratings. But I could still be there trying to prove. prove to them that they made a mistake letting me go. And I didn't. I looked inside. I made my corrections.

I owned, took a little honesty, looked in the mirror real hard. And once I did that, I was empowered. I was inspired. I make jokes to call it spite stores and things like that. But there's something to be said about that. And you got to get there. You have to fail at the other stuff first. Because I spent at least half, my entire 20s blaming somebody else for my problems.

Like wisdom has something in this country that we see less people looking towards, but it is the most valuable tool if you'll ever just shut up and sometimes listen to somebody who's been there and is going to tell you some harsh truths. But we just, we want those first world comforts. We want those bulldozer comforts that we want to make these giant Darth Vader villains and we don't have to improve. and, you know, it's them, not us, so we get rid of them, and then it's us, but it's not. And so we rely on wisdom, and that is a huge tool and an untapped resource. And one of the nice things about having older fans is I'm constantly getting wisdom. Whether I wanted or not at the supermarket, I'll get stopped, and I'll have somebody who, you know, somebody who's been on this planet 80 years has got something to tell me, I'm going to listen.

Is wisdom more important than humility? Yes. And we all should have a little bit in it because we can't, I'm just naturally been fired too much to be cocky. So I get it. I've been future endeavored enough. Yeah, you know, like it's just wisdom's such a powerful tool. It has a way of just, there's a humility in wisdom. Yeah, you can't be wise if you're not humble. You can't choose to be wise. You can try to be wise, but you can choose to be humble. You can't choose to be right, but you can choose to be certain. And right now we're very long uncertainty. And Chuck heard me talk about this a lot, and it's my big criticism of cable news in general. And the greatest compliment that I can pay you is that your modesty and your humility allow you to say, I don't need to be relevant all of the time. It's those things that allow you to say, you know what, I'm going to take a few caution laps on this whole thing.

and you're surrounded by people who either don't or can't do that. And so I think that the most interesting thing about you that I didn't know was the moment when Vince McMahon tells you that he's done with your identity. And here's a new one. And you get to somehow merge both of those things and then enter a completely different ring under completely different circumstances with completely different stakes at one of the most. pivotal times in our country's history. And people actually lean in Tyrus when you talk. They want to

know what you think. As long as you're going to take some time to smell a rose or two, sniff that one. That's some pretty fragrant crap we're talking about there. Yeah, not that you want fragrant and crap to go together the same sentence, but I follow you on that one. Yeah, you know, I attribute a lot to Vince McMahon because I always made the joke and called him father because he was like I think he was responsible for like 90% of our childhoods of the guys on the roster and being cast out by father you want to be like okay I'll show you but I just always have been able to be honest with myself and I see people struggle with it today and I also see that I've been lucky to where insecurity has been something that I just didn't really have much time for I wasn't able to

to be insecure about things. It was like, hey, when I got dropped off at the pool and I was chubby, I only had one shirt for the day. So if I jumped in with the shirt on, that's it. I'm done. No, mom's not giving me to. And then I'm getting trouble for wearing my good shirt in the pool and getting chlorine on it.

So I learned in a very young age that I just didn't have time for insecurity. You just got to just do it and get through it. So I think I had an advantage on a lot of kids in that way, because, Because insecurity goes with you and it kind of turns into a narcissism. I think I know the pandemic was an outbreak of COVID, but I think we've had a huge outbreak of narcissism in this country. And that's what we see because you can't argue the narcissist. Well, you can, but it never goes well.

Well, they're not interested in anything you have to say. It always comes back to that. Yeah, yeah. It's always. You want to do a narcissist check? Start telling somebody about your day. And as soon as I say, well, if you think that's bad. I got that beat.

Yep. Oh, my God, it's so true. It is so true. You just go, okay, but you see it here where someone will get asked to do a show. They're not prepared for. It's 10 minutes out. And they're running to makeup because that camera can be as just as powerful as any crack pipe. Yeah.

I'm just not addicted to it. And I think that's why I'm able to be successful. This is not an exact thing. I could lose my mind at any minute. You know, I get the wrong compliment. from the right CEO or something or CFO, you know, all of a sudden, next thing you know, I'm doing this interview in third person. I mean, you see it happen.

The knock on wood, I keep myself grounded. Who in your life helps you most keep yourself grounded? Like, there's always somebody in the inner circle who's whispering in your ear reminding you that it could all go away in a flash. You know what? It's my kids. Having kids change me because my kids don't watch me on TV. my kids are unimpressed with my theatrical skills.

So to the point where... You never profit in your own land. No, I'm on the boring channel. They don't even have cartoons. That's a quote. And so when I'm with them, I will be like, well, by the way, daddy had 2.4 million viewers that time. Well, I didn't watch. Yeah, pass a cereal.

So, you know, and when I'm with them, they don't want to hear about it's their time. And I think as a guy who didn't necessarily embrace fatherhood, I didn't want it to happen in a very unconventional way. And now when I'm with them, there's that humility, there's that I'm invested in their time and I want their admiration and their love. And the only way I can do that is by being present and being George Murdoch, their dad. And Tyrus has absolutely in Fox News contributor. wrestling superstar TV has no place, no standing with them. And that's about as real as it gets. And not to mention my other half is not impressed with anything I do other than if I get

the grocery bill right. They don't watch me on TV. And a lot of people would be offended by that. But I like the fact that they're just not interested in that because they look at that as a negative. TV takes him away from me. Like dad's not here because he has to go work on TV. So I don't like TV.

And we have deals. Like I don't take pictures or sign autographs when I'm with my children. And 90% I never have, when I say I'm with my kids, listen, I'm not calling their mom telling them I lost my daughter taking a selfie. Yeah. My eight-year-old is probably the most critical. She's very blunt like me. So when we're in public at a restaurant or something together, because we have daddy-daughter dates and things like that. And someone will come up to me and say like, hey, Tyrus, I was whenever I get a picture.

She's like, that's not his real name. His name is dad. and he's having dinner and he's not taking pictures right now, okay? It's the youngest publicist of all time. Yeah, oh yeah, she goes hard in the paint, you know, and my son's a little more accepting, but he's just kind of like, hey, we're trying to do our thing. But I'll tell you what, next time if we see you again,

I'll let my dad take a picture with you. So he's a little more like, he's a little more diplomatic about it, like, you know, where my daughter will give him a mean, dirty look and like roll her eyes and stuff. It's tricky though, man, right? because, I mean, I know that you know where your bread's buttered, at least in the entertainment world. You don't really work for Fox. You work for the people who watch you.

I don't really work for discovery. No. And so it does get tricky out there in the world, though, right? When your boss comes up and ask you for something, you don't feel like giving them. How delightfully convenient to have an eight-year-old to tell him to go pound sands. Yeah. So you don't have to. Yeah, she'll go.

And I think one of the things is because I communicate that so much when I'm on TV. where I talk about the boundary lines, people will be like, I know you like your privacy. I think sometimes we get so caught up and you have to share a little bit of yourself. You also have to share a little bit of your vulnerability. Like, they know I'm very protective of my children,

and I make jokes and I talk about that stuff. But they also know that, like, I am very open about when I'm with my kids, I'm not available. And people respect that. I think the problem is when you paint yourself as this bigger-than-life character who's always available and always on,

they expect you to be on and perform whenever they see you because that's what you show them. But when you show them, like, I have a timeout just like you do. Like, if you got home from the office all day and your boss calls you at 7 o'clock to ask you about a paperwork, you'd be like, bruh, I clocked out at 5. I'll see you tomorrow at 9. Well, it's the same thing. If you let them know that when I'm home, I'm just an everyday second-tier general in a dictatorship that is my house.

So it's important because they get the wrong. You get there. If you're cocky and you come off as this, you know, you're this badass and I do everything. I'm six, eight, and everybody bows to me. Then when they see you, they expect you to perform. Yeah. But, you know, you got to share that with them. No, I get it.

I get it. But I also don't put myself in those situations, too. I don't go out to the clubs. I'm not in the scenes to get noticed. I don't do red carpets. I don't do things like that because I don't have the need to be seen. I always, I always think like, man, is it so important? And whenever I hear, oh, it's for the work.

It's for the brand. It's for your ego. stuff like that I'm just not interested in and that's the bodyguard me you know I stood behind and protected Snoop for years and I would see what a toll it would take on him and I'll be like after a while they're just the same annoying flies

that would show up with the cameras and Andre the giant would always call things flies he didn't like flies and want to swat him and I would stand there sometimes and I'd lean over and be like flies you know because they're just buzzing around taking pictures of you and stuff like how many pictures do you need yeah like you know

who are you going to show them to I got pictures of Tyrus. Who gives a damp? And it wasn't always that way because the first time you see the light, it's shiny, and you want to be on it. And you'll walk out to see if anyone notices you. You know, you'll do all that stuff. But the idea is to mature and grow up and realize that that really doesn't matter.

But not showing up to my daughter's soccer game because I wanted to be in an event for people to take pictures of me and get an interview from some podcast show or something like that. Just value-wise just doesn't really do it for me. It doesn't compare. Chuck, if you didn't jot it down already, Tyrus Jogga's memory, what did you just say a second-rate general in some sort of dictatorship? In a dictatorship? I'm a second-rate general in a dictatorship.

Because a general is supposed to be second command. Yeah. But I'm like assistant to the assistant dictator. No, I got it. I'm just looking for a title for this episode, and I think that might. Oh, there you go. Yeah, that's a good one. Are you okay time-wise?

You got to run on the air or anything? Yeah, I'm fine. Okay. No, I'm good. I'm not up until 445. I spread it out. After yesterday's debacle. I did everything early.

I was like, because it's all Peking Valley. You know this better than anybody. It's like it's all at once or nothing at all. And again, I probably need to get a personal assistant or a manager or an agent, but I don't.

You do. And what ends up happening is Jacob, who is on vacation. I know. Jacob is the publisher for Post Hill. He's not a publicist. He's just cool. We get along.

Yeah. And when the book came out, he gave me a publicist, right? Bless her heart. But she was like overwhelmed by the calls and stuff. And she's like, no, Moss, I'm out. So I wasn't even getting emails on events or anything. And then I'm just going about my business yesterday. And I had like getting ready for all this stuff.

And they asked me to do America reports at 245. And then I got said, hey, we need you to come in on this. And I need you come in that. And I'm like, okay, great. And then I get a random text from Jacob going, oh, my God. Did you Mike Roe? I'm like, when? When is that?

He's like, it's in 20 minutes. I'm like, you want me to tell Mike Roe I can't do a show in 20 minutes? And then I took a breath. I said, all, listen, listen. He's like, I'm on the beach. I'm on vacation. I was like, listen, Jacob, you enjoy the beach. I'll take the heat.

It's my bad. I will throw myself on their mercies to see if we can reschedule. That's what happened. And then he texts me today. I think it was quietly from his beach. I'm like, we're good. We're fine. I blamed you.

They're probably never going to talk to you again, but I'm fine. Don't worry about it. And he's like, what? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. It was nothing. It was something to me. I was embarrassed and I was really upset.

And then I got the, when I told my other half about it, she just said, I told you I would do it. This is like the fourth time it happened. I don't like management. I don't like agents. And a personal assistant, I have to talk to him. You know, and I'm like, you need something. But I understand I need to step out. But you know what?

I mean, I just need to get it done. I'm with you. My business is very, very lean. Chuck's in the sketch because I've known him for 40 years. I've never had an agent. I've never had a manager. I've never had a publicist. I don't do any of that either.

What's different, I've seen you on the set of the five texting. Now I know who you're texting. One of those people might be me. One of those people might be Chuck. Right. It's like, but you will get to a point. where it's self-defeating, and you won't know it. Maybe this will make you feel better about yesterday.

Two hours ago, I agreed to go live on Instagram with this guy who's got 300,000 followers and are all listening in, and we're going to have a half-hour conversation about, you know, the foundation. It's 8-1-1-day. It's 8-1-day. Call before you dig. And I'm like 8-1-1's guy, and so they sponsor this thing. Anyhow, Chuck gets on the phone, and he sends, he says, well, you got the,

the instructions, I'm like, well, I don't know Instagram. All that stuff is I'm like a cow looking at a new gate, right? You and me both, yep. And I'm just like, well, what is this? I follow all the instructions, but I can't get in. And now it's 10 o'clock, right? And you have to go live at three minutes to 10, and now it's 10. And now it's 10.05. And now I have to restart my phone. And then I have to upgrade Instagram. Meanwhile, it's working to the point where I can see him. And this poor bastard is sitting there just filling, just talking to himself minute after minute after minute. And I'm on the screen too, but nobody can hear me. I'm literally picking up this legal pad, Tyrus. I'm writing like notes, like rebooting now and 300,000 people are looking at it.

And it's backwards for whatever reason. I don't know. It was a reflection image. So it was all to read it. So the point, aside from commiserating, is to ask this question. Is there a more sickening feeling in that moment when you know people are waiting on you in a place where you can't get? For me, it makes me throw up in my mouth. Because I feel like it's a direct reflection of my character. I feel. Or your competence, either one. I feel like that's the moment I become every person in entertainment I hate.

Yes. It's a personal affront. I feel like, and that's me at my worst. Like, you were seeing me out of control, lost, and I look like I don't care. Because I'm staring at the screen going, I've had the same problem. And then, of course, then the cussing starts. And then they're just seeing, luckily, all Chuck saw was me eating pistachios because I didn't have to do anything. And I was like, well, I'm just going to sit here and stare at him while you guys figure it out.

And he's like, hello, hello. Because it becomes personal to me, I won't move. I'll just sit there and act like I don't see him because I'm not, I can't hear him. My sign language is horrible. So I'm just going to act like I don't see him until it's fixed. And that's exactly what I did. You know what? You've got a career in acting, man.

I believed you. I totally believed you. I was like, he can't hear me. I'm not talking, I'm not embarrassed myself. The federal government is not going to close America's skills gap. They have an important role to play for sure, but if we're serious about reinvigorating the skilled trades on a national level, we need more organizations like Skills USA making a real difference on a local level. These guys have been around since 1965,

and today they are relevant like never before, with hundreds of chapters in schools all over the country and hundreds of thousands of students participating and competing every year. Nobody is doing more to train the next generation of skilled workers than Skills USA. And I'm encouraging you to at least consider being a part of this movement. Skills USA advisors and volunteers aren't just teaching trades. They're launching careers and strengthening the backbone of our country

by mentoring the next generation of industry leaders. In high school, you could be among the people who are making this movement explode. Join the skilled trades movement. Support career and technical education programs through Skills, There's no better way to do it. You can volunteer at a local chapter. You can start a chapter in your own town. Or you can just go to their website and see the impact for yourself and see too how easy it is to get involved. Thousands of kids are being introduced to the trades in a way that's absolutely positively moving the needle. The goal is a million members by 2030. I think it's doable. I'm doing what I can to help them.

Learn more at skillsusa.org slash Mike. That's skillsusa.org. slash Mike. I'm talking skills, US, skills, US, USA. And I told him, this is where wisdom can really help you. And humility serves no purpose at all. No, no, because I was terrified. I was like, after yesterday, and now you tell me the sound doesn't work, I'm going to lose it. So luckily, they had it fixed and it was all good. But I'm completely with you, man. I don't do the live Instagrams just for that reason, because I've yet to figure it out yet. I'll never do another one. It's over for me. And even this, I went to Fox and I said, please help me with this. Yeah. Please. I don't trust my computer in the office. I've had too many

problems with it. And they hooked me up. It was great. So you've said some really kind things about Fox. And I want to ask you about them because obviously it's a black and white time that we're living in. If I remember, right, it was just something along the lines of it. You just never walked into a friendlier, more inclusive, fairer place or something like that. I got it right here on page 177. You said, I can tell you personally Fox News is the single most inclusive, tolerant, and fair place I have ever worked. Yeah, hands down, not even close.

And the reason being was I was never asked to do anything. I'm still waiting for direction. You know, like, and that's as real as it's getting. I'm telling you right now, if I worked at CNN, or MSNBC, I would have to have a suit on like everybody else. And if I would have showed up to work like this, they would have been like, no. Like, that's not how we do things here. All Fox asked me to do is be the very best me.

And if it works out, they'll pay me handsomely for it. And if it doesn't, they won't. And that's about as fair as it gets. And this thing rose and I was still waiting. I was still looking for at what point the white supremacist comes in and tells me to get out of here. it didn't happen because Larry Elder doesn't work for Fox Yeah I know

It was just too aggressive And as you grow Here's a perfect example My book is not with Fox My book's not with Harper Collins It's not with it's Post Hill And Nobody from Fox called me and says

Hey we want to promote your book You know Fox didn't do that But Dana Perino Brett Bear Greg Gutfeld, Judge Janine, Waters, hey, we love your book. We want to talk about your book. Will you come on our show?

None of them had to do that. The Brett Bear thing, I was, I'm on Brett Bear. Like, I look at Brett Bear like a Walter Cronkite. He is a newsman. So when he asked me to be on his show, I was completely, there's that humbled world again. And didn't give me any directions. And he brought me on.

We talked about a news story. And thank God it was something I was very, person. And then when he took his glasses off and said, I want to talk to you about this, I thought, oh, shit, what do you find? Because, you know, when you're watching, you know, when you want, and Brett Bear goes like this, takes the glasses off and holds them. It's about to be, oh, no. That's more. It says here in chapter six and we have, you know, my sources said that that date is incorrect. Do you have a response, sir? You know, and I'll be like, that's Mike Wallace, not. locking on your doors what that is.

Yeah, and it wasn't. He actually read what I wrote about my father, and it was extremely shocked and touched and just. But that's the environment that I work in, Harris Falk. The list goes on and on of the people who just reach out and said, like, hey, they didn't have to read my book. I didn't expect him to. I looked at it like most places.

Wrestling is very competitive. When one guy's doing well, there's 18 other guys who want your spot. And entertainment is the same thing. So a lot of times if someone's doing well, they might in your face smile and be like, hey, I'm so proud of you. But then they get as soon as you walk away, he's so overrated. I don't get the hat thing. You know, like, that's the business. So I'm sure there's people like that here.

They just don't, you know, just too big to do that too. But my point being was that I have just been welcomed on a whole other level and never asked to say anything that I didn't want to say. And even when I said things that go against the grain or whatever the, you know, the same thing. with Greg, Greg will say one thing and I'll disagree or going to show and I'll give a different spin. I've never been pulled aside like, hey, that can't happen again. Right. The only time I've ever, my producer, Holly, and rightfully so, I talk about in the book, I made a joke about not voting.

And I thought I was so proud of myself for saying that. And she sent me home for a week because she said your words matter. And you going on TV, whether you, how you personally feel about the Hillary and President Trump candidacy, telling your fans not to vote is a disservice to them. And I didn't get it at the time and I was, you know, whatever, you know, this, that, whatever. But looking back at it, there is a responsibility when you speak. And then from that day on, I was like, I need to be responsible. And sometimes my personal feelings are irrelevant when it comes to the responsibility who people who look to you and sometimes look at your opinions as gospel.

And I don't mean that in an arrogant way. But, oh, well, if Tyrus says this, and I believe in this people. People are looking for affirmation. they're looking for a playbook. They're looking for wisdom and humility. And I was very arrogant that day, and I learned a valuable lesson, and it changed the way my approach was. Sometimes I have to think before I speak, and you just can't.

There's a responsibility to do this, and you need to remember that if your words invoke something, you've got to be able to stand by that. Now, I'm mad, and I didn't like something, or I had a fight with my wife before I went on TV, and I just said, well, they should just burn the place down. Everybody laughed and cheered, because in the moment everybody wanted to hear.

But then somewhere in some city, two guys heard what I said and went out and burned out a building of my honor. I have to live. I'm just as responsible. Yeah. We live in different houses on the same street with this topic.

I think the most blowback I ever got around a topic for just opening my big mouth was voting. And I didn't go as far as you did. I didn't tell people not to vote. What I did was I declined to participate in a get-out-the-vote campaign. And when people on my Facebook page, which has

six, seven million people on it, said, look, you really need to encourage your people to vote. I said, I think what I actually wrote was, I would no sooner encourage someone I don't know to vote than I would encourage someone I don't know to buy a gun. I think I remember this. Yeah. I'm not going to tell people not to buy a gun or not to vote, but part of the problem in our country today is nothing's from the bottom up. Everything is top down. Everything is cookie cutter advice. And when I see these celebrities lining up to uniformly tell people to whatever you do, make sure you go out there and vote, what I want to say to them is if you know for sure that they're going to vote for the other guy, are you still willing to drive them to the polls? Do you truly care that much?

And of course they don't. Those campaigns, in my view, were one of the best examples of virtue signaling before virtue signaling was a signal. And that's what I wrote. And based on the crap I got for that, yeah, I can see why Holly told you to take a breath. Because, man, and she did. And I learned a lot from it. Yep. So you mentioned Gutfeld a couple of times. You know, I know a lot of people listening to this want to understand the nature of that relationship and how you guys met and what's going on. Because I just said to Chuck the other day when we were waiting for you to come on, but slowly realizing you were blowing us off. I said, Chuck. Hilarious.

Have you ever seen that kind of dynamic on live TV? He said, well, what exactly is the dynamic you're talking about? And I said, the thing that Tyrus does that makes me laugh all the time is it's a constant stream of feedback. I mean, he's evaluating Greg's performance as well as his point. And that is hysterical. And so I don't know if you Forrest Gumped your way into that dynamic or how it all evolved. Yeah, I'm curious. Our entire show is based off of improv reactions to each other. You could try to duplicate that or plan that or I'll say this and you react to that.

But that gets old and it's mechanical. And you see it tries to be done. I think Beto O'Rourke just did that in one of his speeches where he had somebody planted to laugh so he could call him an MF or. Yeah, bad luck. Yeah, it just doesn't work. It wasn't for us. It just kind of happened.

Greg is very excitable. And he starts going off in one of his rants. And sometimes just my natural thing, when guys talk about creepy, weird stuff, my reaction has always been. What? Why are you saying that? What does I have to do with the point? So it just kind of happened. And the more comfortable we got with each other, and then you have Kat who tries to calm everybody down because we're both dominant personalities.

shows like this can backfire to where the personnel has become bigger than the show, and everyone's trying to upstage each other. Yeah. But I think we're so different, but similar in terms of the way we look at things where no one really steps on anybody's toes. Everyone gets their point across. We understand Greg is the host, and I'm the anchor, and Kat is the in-between. And so my job is to bring everything home.

That's what I do. We all have our roles in our lanes, so to speak. It's a nice. The chemistry is amazing, and I think that's what makes us different. First of all, no late-night TV show host is going to share the spotlight. Yeah. Name me one that doesn't. No.

Even Johnny Carson, Ed McMahon was there, but Ed was just kind of there. It wasn't like Ed had his own segment, you know, but there's still a great tandem. But everybody else, they own the show. What's Kimmel, he has that one guy kind of sometimes, but it's not a significant thing and doesn't have a voice in his own identity and his own ability to grow out. side of the box and move on and do other things. So it's a very unique dynamic. I don't think you can necessarily duplicate it because you have to be able to let the other person speak and be great when it's time for them be great and not be offended by it. You can't. You got to be generous. You know, you have to because if he makes a great point and then I make a joke and the cat makes a joke,

but if they laugh louder at cat's joke that night, that's okay. Sure. You know, if she has the point of the night, that's okay. It's a team effort. It's an individual sport, but we have to take it as a team and grow. And like I said, in wrestling, it's called, when you got chemistry, it's easy. When you don't, it's hard. And we just, for whatever reason, we are three completely different people. I think Kat and Greg are a little more similar, and they hang out socially and, you know, those kind of things, and their wives and husbands are friends. And I'm more of recluse. I'm like Sasquatch. You catch me very rarely. I'm in and out. I'm working on my second book, so I'm in my room, hotel room, writing when I'm not at work or training.

But we're very different. We expect that. We couldn't all be the same because it wouldn't work. So it's just a unique, unique, different aspect, but it works. Yeah, man. It is lightning in a bottle, and it's impossible to replicate. But you mentioned Sasquatch. And now I got to tell you that my new field producer on Dirty Jobs is a guy named Zach Hall. Zach is a producer on a show. I think it's Expedition Bigfoot. Do you watch that one? Yeah, I'm a huge Bigfoot fan.

I knew that because I saw him in the title, him, Bigfoot. I guess it's a him. I don't know. But yeah, listen to a chunk of a podcast. A squatch. Yeah, he's got a nickname now. He's just the Squatch, right? And I find that offensive.

You can't give nicknames. You can't be an expert on something that no one has seen yet. Now, I look at everything from an analytical scientific point of view. Is there evidence of a big name? in the ape family. Yeah, there's Othro Sempitzicus, I believe he was about 10 feet and walked up right. Arthipidicus, yeah. Yes, and there was a lot of Native American artwork that depicted said large ape individual, and there was that one explorer in Oregon. Who wanted the Native Americans to take him into the forest, and they said, not that one.

We don't go in that one because they eat us if we go in there. So there is, I look at it historically that way, could there have been quite possibly, I'm all with it. And I'm down with any expedition. But there's been a lot of gross negligence in the Bigfoot realm where I'm convinced that guys just put on some night gear and walk up and down a dirt road in a forest and say, we're looking for squatch. And I'm going to do, all of a sudden they know the calls. They're knocking and they're howling. And I'm like, based off of what? Yeah, what call?

Yeah, what call is a squatch call? Or when I hear them say classic squatch. But again, I watch the train wreck just like everybody else. I won't watch a reality TV show. But I will watch a group of three Wander in the Forest looking for Bigfoot. The beautiful thing is that that episode always ends the same, but yet I watch again. So because no one's, there's never been an episode where they found him. Nope.

You know? Look, I narrated, I don't even know how many years of ghost hunters. Ghost hunters international. Yeah. Right? It's the same kind of thing. They're out there with all this gear and they're sitting around. You know, if you can hear us, give us a sign. And somehow or other, there's a sign on some of the readings,

which is almost as good as if you can hear us, don't make a sound. That's what I want to hear. Listen to the silence. It must be real. And hey, listen, I'm hooked on Skinwalker Ranch right now. So that has things a little more tangible. But was there Bigfoot? Possibly.

Was it connected to aliens? Who knows? I'm not willing to sell everything and get a backpack. a map and a camera and go looking for Squatch. Don't leave your day job, Tyrus. You're killing it. Not to mention being shot in the back by someone thinking I'm Sasquatch is not the way I want to go out. Definitely not.

That might be a better title. I can talk to you all afternoon, but I know you got stuff to do, and I think I have to screw up another Instagram call in about 15 minutes anyway. So really appreciate you making the time for this. It was a complete honor, sir. Thank you so much. I'm serious. I will be there with my money.

all day Tuesday. So, yeah, just let me know. I'll come find you guys. By the way, speaking of doing a solid, Peter Ducey, I'm on Fox and Friends a couple months ago. He says, you know what, you should call Fox Nation, have him do a little segment on your mom. It'll help with her book. So I did. And the producer called back and I put him in touch with my mom. And he said, you know what, she's terrific. We're definitely going to do it. And they called back and said, you know, I talk to her again. I think we're going to do a whole half hour. Nice. And then he called back again and said, your mom is incredible. And I said, yeah, she's America's grandmother. He says, my God, what a great title. Then he calls back again and says, never mind all this. We're doing a one-hour

special called America's grandmother on Fox at 10 p.m. on Sunday the 21st. None of that had to happen. To your earlier point, it's nice when nice people run into other nice people. But it's also talent makes people a lot easier to be nice. Because I'm telling you right now, if moms wasn't any good, it would have been the world's fastest minute on the latest show. She would have been the one more thing on the five. Hey, you know what? That's still a goal I have.

One of these days, I'm going to get a one more thing. Anyway, don't hang up. This has to upload, but you were awesome. And I can't wait until our paths cross in person again. I appreciate it. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. And the book is called Just Tyrus.

Just Tyrus, yes, sir. Where is the best place to get it? Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, Walmart. Those are the three places where it's most prevalent. Great. And you also have a podcast called Tyrus and Timph. Tirest and Timph, yes. And then we have the three wise men.

So, yeah, under the Tyrus and Timph umbrella. So, yeah. Right. Complete nonsense. It's called Just Tyrus a memoir. Correct? Yes. Because when I glanced at at the first time, I thought it said, Tyrus, just a memoir.

And I thought, I don't like that. I feel like that's small. Have you ever been checked for dyslexia? Yeah, it's just a memoir. But then I looked at it again, and I thought, Tyrus, a just memoir. And I'm like, that's kind of haughty. I'm not sure that works either. But then I looked at it.

Whatever makes you remember it. I'm good. Yeah. But yeah, it's just Tyrus. Just Tyrus. It's a hell of a read. Pick it up, read it, memorize it. It's not a pop-up, is it?

No, but I'll work on it. All right, good. His second book's going to be amazing, too. Thanks again. Thank you, boss. If you like what you heard. And even if you don't. Won't you please?

Won't you please? Won't you please? Please cry. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. Because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need all in one place. from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more,

and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock, so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800 Granger, visit granger.com or just stop by, Granger, for the ones who get it done.