The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 266: Tim Cotton—America's Cop is Always on Doodie

Episode Date: August 30, 2022

Award-winning author, Bangor Maine Police social media manager, and Duck of Justice creator Tim Cotton joins TWIHI to discuss America's love-hate relationship with cops, the proper punishment for crapping in the street, and why Mike has dubbed Tim America's Cop despite his recent retirement.  

Well, here we go again. It's Mike Roe. This is the way I heard it, episode number 266. It's called America's Cop is always on duty. And Chuck, explain why that's so clever and funny, would you? Well, you know, you would think it would be D-U-T-Y, but it's actually D-O-O-D-I-E, meaning poopie. Yeah, yeah, because we're still eight years old, deep down. And so is my guest today. I call him a friend. I met him online. That's a weird way to come out of the gate. But I did. Well, he's my favorite cop. He's America's cop. He's Tim Cotton. If you haven't already heard me talk with Tim or about Tim, the short version is he was a cop up in Bangor, Maine.

He just retired. And he came to my attention years ago because he runs Bangor's Facebook page. And he had a column called Got Warrants, which basically was just a police blotter. And he made it funny. But a very cleverly written one, yeah. He made it very funny. And he did it at a time when, well, I mean, we're still in this time, unfortunately, where good cops are retiring really fast. And the relationship between the public and cops is tenuous. Tim Cotton just did exactly what a good PR person would do if they came in to try and help bridge that gap, except Tim Cotton. Tim Cotton just did exactly what a good PR person would do if they came in to try and help bridge that gap. except Tim's not a PR person. He was a detective for decades, a cop for 34 years. He's just retired. He's now embracing his writing career with both arms.

Obviously, we wish him every success. And Chuck, if the last book was any indication, he's going to do it again. Yeah, he's got another book coming out, November 1st. It's called Dawn in the Dooryard, Reflections from the Jagged Edge of America, which is a play on the first. What was the second one called Detective in the Dooryard? Detective in the Dooryard. And a dooryard is just one of those main terms that I think it basically means like a porch or maybe the...

You know what? I don't know what the hell it means. The area right where your front door is. Yeah. That's what I think he said to the last... They got a different name for everything up there in Maine. You can't get there from here. Can't get there from here. Anyway, Tim Cotton is a good man, a much, much better than average writer.

He reminds me of my mother in a lot of ways. We talk a lot about writing and we talk a lot about the business of being a cop. We kick things off, actually. I wanted to get Tim's reaction to a story I wrote years ago called Fair Warning. Normally, I would instruct you to go listen to that, but you don't have to because it's a pretty short win, and we're going to play it for you right now. And then Tim is going to join us to tell me what I got right and what I got wrong. And then you should just settle down and listen to this conversation, not because it's great in and of itself, but it is, modesty aside. But it's just a great example of the human that all cops want to be and want to be seen as.

Tim is that very thing. He's 59. He did his time. He served, he protected, and he wrote along the way. and he's going to become a very big deal one of these days, and I'm here to do everything I can to recommend you read what he's written. He's talented and fun, and somebody you ought to know. He's Tim Cotton, you'll meet him momentarily right after a little story we like to call Fair Warning and a slightly bigger podcast episode that I'm going to call America's Cop. Is always on duty.

Ernie considered his single ace. It was the only car to value in a single. his hand, but Ezekiel and Fernando didn't know that, nor did they know they were playing poker with a bona fide celebrity. All they knew was they were losing. Ernie slid another buck into the kitty and took a long pull on the bottle. Across the table, Fernando considered his pair of nines as Ezekiel contemplated his two jacks. Both stared hard at Ernie and tried to read his mine, but Ernie gave nothing away. And eventually, both men folded. Maybe had Ernie scooped up his winnings and dealt another hand, he'd still be alive today. Maybe if he hadn't flipped his cards over

with a smirk and showed the migrant workers how he'd bluffed them, the man, known by every cop in the country, wouldn't be fighting for his life in a dive bar on Skid Row. But Ernie couldn't help himself. He gloated, and Fernando flushed with anger. Ernie saw the roundhouse long before it arrived and ducked under it with ease. He answered with two quick jabs, and Fernando went backwards over his chair with a bloody and broken nose. Ezekiel stood quickly, but Ernie anticipated his play and caught him with an uppercut that sent him tumbling over Fernando.

Both men stood and rushed it, Ernie, but neither fared well. It's funny, though, how quickly the dynamic can change. when the rules are amended. Ernie heard the snick and then saw the blade glinting brightly in the dim light as Fernando handed the switch blade to Ezekiel.

Here, said Fernando, you finish him. Ezekiel held the blade like a man who knew how to use it, like a man who looked forward to using it again. Fernando blocked the door, and things suddenly got very serious for Ernie. Clearly, it was not a fair fight, but before you start rooting for the underdog, take a moment and consider the nature

of Ernie's celebrity. Fourteen prior arrests. Burglary, shoplifting, larceny, deviancy, voyeurism, grand theft auto, narcotics, you name it. Consider the victims of Ernie's many crimes. Victims like Lois. Lois was just 17 years old when Ernie kidnapped her and raped her and dumbed her. And dumped her on her brother's lawn. It's easy to forget about people like Lois. During the trial, she was referred to as Jane Doe, but her real name was Lois Ann Jameson. And back in 1963, she was just another easy mark for a man like Ernie, a man that every cop in America would soon know by name. When they arrested him for rape and kidnapping, Ernie didn't deny what he had done. In fact, he freely confessed and was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

But Ernie was one of those criminals who always seemed to have an ace up his sleeve. Yeah, he got caught a lot, but somehow he always seemed to get off easy. And this time, with the help of some very clever lawyers with the ACLU, Ernie persuaded the court to reverse his rape conviction. Some people called the judge's decision outrageous. Some called it long overdue. Most called it constitutional. Whatever it was. It wasn't justice.

Not for Lois anyway. No, Lois and Jameson would have to wait 13 years before karma finally caught up to the man who raped her. 13 years before the most famous criminal in America finally turned up dead in a Phoenix dive bar. That's where the cops found Ernie, stabbed to death over a $3 poker game. They never found Ezekiel, but his accomplice was arrested near the scene

where a conscientious cop dutifully read him his rights. Fernando, listen very carefully to those rights. Then he exercised them. It's funny how quickly the dynamic can change when the rules are amended. You see, when Ernie was arrested for Lois's rape back in 1963, the police were under no obligation to read him his rights, so they didn't. But four years later, all that changed. That is why Ernie was released from jail, long before his sentence was complete.

That's why the officers who responded to Ernie's murder were now legally required to make absolutely sure the accused, understood his constitutional rights, specifically the many advantages of keeping his big mouth shut. Consequently, Fernando never said a word about the knife he pulled from his own pocket. He said nothing to incriminate himself at all, which is why the cops had no choice but to release him. And so, justice finally came to Lois and Jameson, along with a shot of irony, because Fernando Zamora not only helped kill the man who raped her. He got away with it by exercising his right to remain silent. A right the police were compelled to spell out for him, thanks to the most famous criminal in America, the dead man on the floor. The man who would remain silent forevermore.

Ernesto Miranda. Anyway, that's the way I heard it. Well, people are still raving. Raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest Pure Talk commercial. And if you haven't seen it, I encourage you to give it a look on my Facebook page and read the comments. They're hysterical. In this commercial, you'll not only see Peggy Roe gently criticizing her oldest son for his longstanding and well-established commitment issues, you'll learn about the latest offer from Pure Talk, which includes unlimited talk, text, and data for just $3499 a month,

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advertising campaign. Do what my mom did. Get yourself unlimited high-speed data for just 3499 a month at puretalk.com slash row. You can switch in as little as 10 minutes at puretalk.com slash row. Pure Talk. You know, I'll talk about whatever, but I did like that episode and I think it's kind of ironic and very nice that he died in the way that he did. All right, hold on. So Chuck, option A is that as planned. Option B is I read something that Tim wrote,

something short from his blog, and we come out of that. Well, I think we should talk about Ernesto, because I think it, you know, I know Tim's going to knock it out of the park. And then if you want to read something of Tim's, maybe from his upcoming book, we could do that at the end as well.

We could, but you know what? It's not coming out until November. So why don't we wait till then to properly fillate him? Oh, I would love that. It would be so helpful. Yeah, I can send you pieces. Nothing better than a proper fallation. I've been shat upon by nobody worse than you.

All right. Well, stop that. And let's pretend right now we've just listened to another one of my captivating stories. Shall we? Here we go. All of this is going in for sure. Tim Cotton, as I live and breathe, there you sit in all your redolent, retirement, in your squalor, in your glory. How are you?

I'm doing very well. It's great to see you guys again. I wore plaid again because I got crapped upon last time for being dripping in some kind of Maine. You're very sarcastic, which is odd, and that you would be that way because people believe you're a nice human. Well, I think in fairness, he was awake. So I went with a lighter summer plaid because in Maine it's still summer, at least for another three or four days. And I'm doing well. I'm enjoying retirement. It's weird not going somewhere every day. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. So other than that, though, I've got plenty of day.

do, I'm enjoying it. I'll be honest. Well, good. We'll take a deep dive into all of that. I have many questions for you concerning the slow unraveling of our society. Your take on it as a recently retired gendarme, what in the world are we coming to, and so forth and so on. But Chuck wanted to play the story that we just forced everyone to listen to, including you. And I guess my first question is, did I get any of it right? And your thoughts in general about Mr. Mr. Miranda and his sad demise. Well, I don't think it was sad because, I mean, maybe for his mother, but other than that,

I don't, and not to take away from what he gave to America, giving everyone the right to know that they didn't have to say anything about themselves, the self-incrimination issue. And I think it's an important thing that happened. I just feel bad that it's him that we have to quote each time because he was basically a a deviant human. And a rapist. Yeah, he was many things. And a rapist, a kidnapper,

a robber. But in the end, I don't think it's a bad thing. So people get some review of their rights of the Fifth and Sixth Amendment when they have a conversation with a cop. However, I wish Americans would learn that in civics because it's very simple. But you should know that before you leave school

that you don't have to incriminate yourself. And if we all had that information, or armed correctly before we left high school, we wouldn't have to do so much reading to people. And we read that, by the way. I love the story because, of course, you did it, and who doesn't love to hear you. Yes, thank you.

Yes, good point. But I really, one thing you see on television is the flippant recitation of the Miranda Warning. And here in the state of Maine and many other places, we read it directly from a card, provided to us by our state's Attorney General's office. That way, there's no misconception of what the information that they get. So for all my 34 years, I read it every time, never reciting it, because they even added little points at the end would say, in parentheses, get verbal response.

My card actually says that. It says get verbal response. Do you read those out loud like our president does sometimes? Pause for applause. I like that. That was a good one, shot. Yeah, I think it's been read before by some people, but, and then you look at them. I'm sure. I'm sorry, but it's so ridiculous. Like, are there explanation points, exclamation points? Well, no, I don't think those are there, but there is the point that says get verbal response after each and every right that's read to them. And you have to get a verbal response. Typically, when you're in a conversation with someone who is possible,

committed a crime, they'll shake their head up and down because they don't want to talk in the first place. Most people know not to talk to the cops. As you can see in traffic stuff videos all over YouTube, I don't have to answer your questions, right? So I don't think the rights need to be read anymore because you just have to watch YouTube at the fellows that like to get stopped by the police and just slide their license through the window to show the world that they don't have to incriminate themselves. So we should all be learning by YouTube. Give me a basic number, Tim. How many times have you read the Miranda warning in your 34 years as an actual cop? I would say several hundred, probably, two or 300 times at least, figuring a couple times a week.

Never recited it, and just so I'm clear, why? Never. I mean, clearly you're a man of great gray matter. You've committed this thing to memory, probably immediately. We've heard it. We all learned it from Adam 12. I mean, anybody in our age group, the older guys. not you too, of course.

But we're not retired. I suspect you could retire better than I did. However, I hope so. I read it each time because at the police academy in the state of Maine, they urged us to read it every time. So there was no way that later on could say, oh, could it be that Detective Cotton, you forgot a word or two? So I could always say, and I've said this many times,

on the stand. No, I read it directly from the card provided to me by the main Attorney General's office each and every time, and I don't deviate from the word or verbiage that is on that card. I would say that in court. So they would know I read it exactly, and then they could listen to the tape because there was many times a tape or videotape. Now, when you said that in court, did you say that from memory, or did you also read that from a card? I probably should have read it from a card. How classic would that be? Stand by, Your Honor.

I want to just review some... I've got a three-by-five here that really spells it out for you. It smells of coffee and glazed goodness, but let me just read... I have here that you were supposed to say this, Your Honor. And if the attorney could catch you in that moment, by the way, they would eat you up. So I think what they did is they dumped it down because I'm a mope and many cops would much rather, with some bravado, spouted off from memory to show you that they're like T.J. Hooker. But truthfully, it might have been better that we all read it the same way because everybody

heard it the same way. And there was no way there was any misconception of what had just been read. So I understand why the AG's office in Maine likes that. It helps their attorneys to say, okay, he's an idiot, me, but at least we know he did this correctly. Has there ever been a moment where you've read the rights to somebody that may or may not have committed a crime? and they've said, oh, really? So I don't have to get. Like, they're surprised.

Or conversely, have you ever read them to anyone who said, yeah, yeah, yeah, here's the thing. I did it. I do it again if I could, and I liked it. Well, the liked it part I didn't get a lot of, but I did get many people who say, I know I've heard him, I've heard him, I've heard him. Now, if they said that, I would still read that because that could be their game to understand that they could play it against you later in court. I just said that because I was under stress. He has a pistol. It's on his hip. I couldn't believe it. I've never been so scared in my life, even though they just

pummeled some older lady or raped a young girl. But they would obviously get in court clean up quite nicely like you two do, one of you. We'll have to guess which. They could always play that against you. So yeah, I always read it. And sometimes people would say, oh, I'd like to confess. You know, they would. They would confess. But what's missing maybe in this fine piece that you produced about Ernesto is that American, have missed one thing and nuance that they believe they know, but they don't, because one of their favorite things of the low count arrestee will say is, he didn't read me my rights. That's because, you dipstick, I didn't question you, and you were not in custody.

So there's two things that are necessary for Miranda that television doesn't tell you, and that's two things. Custody. Now, that is always what comes up in the courtroom. Was that custody? did you corner him or her, and interrogation. So if one of those two things is missing, and Miranda is not necessary. So in other words, when you arrest a citizen who has just stolen three hot dogs and a bag of gummy worms,

I know what you did. You're on camera. I don't ask you any questions. I don't even care because I want to get this over with and move on. So they will always say, well, he didn't read me my rights. Just because you were arrested does not mean you get your rights. now. Sorry, you use the word custody

and then arrested. Are they the same thing? No. Because you could be in custody. This is the nuance we would teach younger cops. If you're leaning against the cruiser and they have an open alley to go to the right or to the left

and you've not told them they have to stay, once you let them know they are in custody and that's the little game on YouTube. Am I in custody? They like to ask that, these sovereign type individuals. So they ask about custody because if you're free to leave, if they're free to leave, there is no custody. Now, if I set them in the back of my police cruiser with an open door and I'm just talking to them about this and that and I give them a bottle of water, are they in custody? At that point, I would be very cautious when they're sitting in a cruiser that could be shot and locked where they're in the cage in the back.

As soon as they shut that door, even if they said, hey, I'm cold. Now, you might fight that in court later and say, Judge, it was cold. I was trying to keep the heat in the car, and they could have gotten out any time they want, but those doors don't open. So you're immediately in custody when you shut that door, okay? Right.

But before that, if you're good at your job, you can play that spot where they're leaning against the door, and you can have a conversation. But what a police officer typically does, if they've got any sense, is they say, hey, take off. You know what? I'll catch up with you later. that essentially proves they weren't in custody.

So sometimes I would say in an interview out on the street, and I'll tell you a quick story because we can't tell all the stories. I had a sex offender, rapist, 25-year-old, good-looking kid, would always find 15- and 16-year-old girls at parties. So when we finally landed him and he would have sex with some of them, and by consensual in some way, he might have given liquor to them, but it was one of his little M.O.'s. We interviewed him beside a Ford Taurus in Glenburn, Maine.

and he was in the house with some friends. We brought him outside. He leaned against our car. I'm in plain clothes. My partner's in plain clothes. Our guns are covered. We're standing by a torus. Unmarked.

Piece of crap like all our cars were in those days. So he confessed to many things. He didn't confess to the whole thing, but he gave us enough things. And then we said, hey, you know, it's so good to see you today. Have a great day. Enjoy the afternoon. We leave. Well, he wasn't in custody.

But when we got to the trial, the attorney, a slick little wizard, who wasn't that good at his job, but he thought he was slick, he kept ringing up. And this became a joke, and the judge actually began to laugh a little bit because he said, well, you were standing next to a police car. You and your partner are armed. And we're like, yeah, we've got jackets on, like members only. We're not very, you couldn't tell we were cops if we showed you a badge. And then you said, well, you're standing by a police car.

Obviously, he knows at that point he's in custody. And we would say, to the jury, well, it's a torus. That's what we would say. And you look at the jury and say, well, it's a torus. You know, you even put your hands up because the judge doesn't like it if you play a jury, but sometimes you can get on their good side. So they're listening and enjoying the time and maybe getting a few giggles. And each time you'd say that, I would just wait, and I'd lean forward and say,

well, it was a torus like that. So it was. It was 182,000 miles. It's gold. The interior is horrible. It doesn't look like a police car. So in other words, the comments that he told us at that time, they decided the jury, he figured it out and said, well, he's not in custody. He came out. He went back in. It's a torus.

And their guns are covered. So we didn't read Miranda in that situation because we didn't have custody. We didn't have interrogation. But a good attorney can make it seem like you're in custody. And if they do that and they win that argument, you should have read Miranda. So we step back and say, you're a young cop. You're doing interviews. Read Miranda. You're just covered that way. right? So it's an interesting place. Do do do do do do do do. I love stories like this. Seven years ago, a guy named Ben Still was a musician.

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Get good ranchers now. E-haw! Here's the question people are screaming right now as they drive along. They're listening to this. They know I got a 34-year cop to sit down here, and he's probably willing to say anything at this point in his career. He has nothing to lose.

He's retired. Nothing on the horizon except writing, writing, writing. So let me just ask you, in your view, how many bad guys have gotten away, how much injustice has unfolded as a result of either a slick lawyer or a cop who didn't get it quite right, didn't read it quite right? some tea wasn't crossed, some eye wasn't dotted, and as a result, some vermin is out there running amok. It's a leading question. It's a softball, I know, but you're a retired cop, and Chuck isn't, and his opinion no longer matters.

Yeah, truthfully, I would say there are a lot of people that may be in areas more urban than say where I came from, Maine. I think you described last year a big little town is what you described by Angora as, which would be the case in the world, even though the third largest city in Maine would be a town in my any other, you know, any stretch of the imagination. I would say, in my experience from my angle, very few because you usually had other information that would make the case. Inevitable discovery.

I mean, some things they don't have to tell you. if I know, you know, evidence. Evidence is picked up at the scene that shows that's your fingerprint. You lied. He didn't read Miranda, but your statement is no longer being used because they didn't read Miranda, but here's your fingerprint. In front of a jury, a fingerprint or DNA, a sample of your body fluids, that's a good indicator that you were there.

And most people get in trouble because their lies are proven. I had a prosecutor who, one of the interview techniques would be to get people to stop talking to say, no, no, no, don't stop. Well, that's how you get people to stop denying, right? Stop, wait, I think this, and try to get them to go to tell the truth, and essentially. But our prosecutor would say, please let them lie as many times as you can. Now, people don't quite get that, but I can prove his lies are incorrect with evidence. Let him lie. Give him a chance, her a chance, to tell three stories, all different.

all lies. A jury sits there and says, this guy's come up with three different stories. They proved each one wrong. What is he lying about? A jury could go that way and say you're guilty because of that, even if the statements were never allotted into court because we're going to prove their lies. So I don't think a lot of people have walked. In this case, I'm not sure, in the case of Ernesto's friend, who later became his killer, I'm not sure. That's an interesting part of the story I don't know. I wonder how that fellow, how he managed to get to the point where his statements were thrown out, I take it, or he didn't make any statements because they read him his rights and he stopped talking. I'd like to dig into that myself. Zamora, I think his name was. Zemora. He knew he

could be silent, so he remained silent. And he remained silent, which is really the key, but most people don't remain silent. As a matter of fact, they talk way too much to someone. The other thing is, what if their statement to two or three friends is they did it, but the cop blew up Miranda. So you bring their friends in, they testify against them. They told me they did it. So the statement doesn't matter that you missed due to a mistake with Miranda. But in my early years, we worked hard never to read Miranda, meaning never to have them in custody. So we'd call someone say, hey, can you meet me? Hey, meet me outside your apartment on the porch. So we'd do what we'd call just a laid back interview, a knock and talk is what we call it, just talk out on the porch. We're recording. And then

we make sure we say a few times, hey, look, if you got stuff to do, hey, go ahead, take off. Oh, no, I want to talk to you. Well, the minute they say that, there's no custody. So there are techniques that police use, obviously, to keep people in a conversation. It's fun, actually, at some point to say, hey, take off, you know, we'll get back to you later. So we would tend to do that when we could, even with some murderers. Now, in the cases where they're not a rampant, you know, seven-time killer,

but someone who did something in a moment of passion that typically would never have done, done it, we'd let them walk for weeks at a time because they're not killing anyone else. And the prosecutor used to tell us, it'll be my bad if they do, not yours. So, okay, let them go. Repeatedly let them go, talk to them again, repeatedly let them walk off. And people who are victims or victims' families don't understand that. They believe in immediate arrest is the key to life. To me, let them walk as long as they want and come back repeatedly because I'll get more stories. We want a good case. And families, sometimes some of the problems for a detective would be to handle the family to say,

yes, you're right. We didn't arrest them. But arrest wrecks everything because that is true custody. And you're not going to go back and talk to them in the jail. No, you can't put the poop back in the goose. And basically, to turn it into a bromide, if you want them to talk, well, I mean, I know some geese. I know some geese. It's fun.

If you want them to talk, you've got to let them walk. That's 100% right. And I can't tell you how many times Mike and Chuck that family members would be enraged complaining to the chief. You haven't arrested them yet. They got it in the paper. So one of the things you do is you're really trying to walk a thin line to keep the family helping, try to get with them,

explain to them why they're walking, because we don't think he's going to kill again. An arrest does not fix anything. A conviction is what fixes it. Jail is temporary on an arrest when there's a bail situation. But once you put them in there, You have just cut off your line of communication with a person who did it. And it's dumb.

So the typical way you handle the homicide was let people walk and talk to them sooner or later a couple times. Yeah. That also doesn't make great TV, by the way. Like you just don't see that in a lot of shows. No, no. No, people want the bracelets or subcops use the term bracelets, which is always like so Barney Miller, which was my favorite show. Great show, by the way.

Great show. It was a great show. That was fantastic. Great show and great thing. Oh, it's a hundred percent. Great theme. Great music. Great everything. I miss that show.

It's a very fine line you walk, and for a patrol officer on the street, they might not read you your rights when you're arrested, because they don't want to know anything. A video camera of you pummeling a certain person on the sidewalk, and they have evidence. And when you get to the detectives, they'll read you your rights because you're in custody. But a cop might not read you your rights. But people love to scream. He didn't read me my rights. I'm free. No, you're not.

You're in jail. and they're not talking to you. Go back to the video camera for a second. Sure. I wanted to ask you before, you know, you, let's see, Miranda, he did his crime in 63. I think he died in 77. Correct. So you became a cop probably what, early 80s?

88. 88. 88. Okay. Okay. So at that time, in Maine, were you recording encounters? There was no video, but was there audio? As much as you could, you did. We all had the mini tape recorder with the tapes that would barely fit in a pocket anywhere, and we'd roll tape when we had a conversation.

But for many years, people accepted the police officers report as documentation and judges did too. And if you didn't record, you were writing it from the best of your recollection about the situation at the time. When recordings came in, probably they were available in those days, but not all encounters were. But people trusted the police to the point that they were going to write their reports truthfully. I mean, that's why we take a polygraph to become a cop, and people have to trust the law enforcement officer to be writing the correct thing. And then denials. And when that trust is gone, when that trust is gone, Tim, that's called 2022. It is.

You have to have tape of everything because everybody's rolling tape anyway in your encounters. You have to be careful what you're saying. Because I just watched one at a local police department here where someone's filming an arrest. It came up this week. I watched it repeatedly because I won't say a woman or a man, but it was a woman. She was filming, and she was narrating what was happening in the arrest. Well, I know what happened in the arrest. A fellow came from California.

He decided that he can steal food anywhere he wants, because I believe in California, the Proposition 12 is it? Whereas you're hungry. So this fellow decided to come to Maine. We've got a great system for those folks, and they come, and they sign up, and they get a pretty good ride in Maine in many cases. and this fellow over the course of four days had stolen at multiple businesses.

When he walks out, they say, hey, stop, you can't go with that. He'd say, up yours, and I'm eating. I'm eating it, so it's okay. I'm hungry, and he'd walk out. Well, about the fourth time, one business said, that sandwich, you have to pay for that. F you, right? He says, F you, walks out, eats it in front of them.

Cops shows up, says, hey, I got a summons for you. I'm going to write you a ticket. The fellow says, I'm eating a sandwich. I can take anything I want. It's food. And he says, no, you can't. You've got to sign the ticket. Up yours. He walks off. Cop gets out of the car. The guy runs. Cop chases him down. He's done this repeatedly over so many days.

The world wants us to control crime, but they don't want us to put our paws on anyone. It's impossible, by the way, because you have to put habeas, grab us on humans at times. And that's our job. So how many times do you let someone steal? Do we want to become that California proposition? Or are we going to put a him in jail for an hour and a half until he bails out. So he's placed under arrest. He puts up a fight. The camera comes on. The woman narrates, I can't believe the cops have hurt this man. He's just hungry. Now he hears that and he's playing, oh, you're hurting me. I'm just hungry because he knows that camera's on. So the narration comes from a person who has no idea about any part of this,

right? They don't know anything other than the arrest, but they want to be a superhero. They want to be the next YouTube videographer who's created to show the cops are horrible. This is a fellow that's stolen for four days in a row, runs from the cops, fights back, gets throttled to the ground and handcuffed because that's what happens when you fight with the police. And then they wait. He's not being injured, but he starts smacking his head and raising some cane and saying, that lady's right.

I was just hungry. That's the narration from someone who doesn't know anything about it. But that's the narration that goes on the net first. We don't respond with our body cam. on some simple theft case like this. But the world's like, I can't believe what you did. Did you see that poor man? So it's a problem for cops.

Yeah, I mean, I can't even, well, I can kind of imagine it because I know what it feels like to look up and see a camera pointed at me. I got kind of used to that. Yeah, I bet you did. But I wonder, and I've asked this question on the interwebs once or twice, and the conversation's always lively,

but what do you think has had a greater impact on society overall, the proliferation of guns or the proliferation of a smartphone with a camera and the ability to go live at any time, anywhere. You hit it on the head. That's changed the way, not necessarily how we do the job, but how we present ourselves doing the job, because you almost have to become an actor at that point. It has to become Mike Lowe in front of a camera. Now we're getting somewhere.

Because someone's yelling up to you from the ground. They're spitting in your face and they're telling you everything. Now, every says, oh, keep your controlled temper. A cop can't get angry. No, you're human, okay? You're going to get angry. And you don't want to be injured or punched in the face by some slug-o. You don't.

No, we don't go to work to get injured. We didn't sign up to get injured. So you use a little bit more force than they do. There's a force continuum. People don't get that anymore. So a punch in the face to the cop is going to beget a punch or two to the face from the cop. That's the way it is. And no one wants anybody struck, but you're being struck, yet they watch MMA. And it's completely acceptable that,

oh, that guy, you had to get back, right? This is a different situation. This is a life and death. There's no referee. There's nobody there to stop the fight. So you have to end the fight, get them in custody as best you can, without injury, no question, but sometimes there are some. guns as a police officer and a 59-year-old American guns to me on the streets of Maine are the least of my concern because they're in every pickup truck they're in my pickup truck

they're in racks in the back windows of cars but the more you talk about something the more you create a theory that that's what's causing the problem people begin to believe that every time and I'm not saying that guns aren't a problem in situations yeah hello but for a police officer officer, maybe more in a big city. It's a major concern. But I see a lot of agencies say, we got this gun off the street. They throw it in a pile of marijuana and two bags of heroin. They've got a single shot, 12-gauge Harrington and Richardson that belongs to the guy's

grandfather. They found it at the house. It's a gun deal. It isn't. It was his hunting shotgun, and it was not something he was using or she was using in the commission of crimes. But it's nice to throw a picture of a gun in there. But for me, the biggest issue, I don't mind being held responsible for situations by a camera. But if you're in the middle of a fight to have someone putting that in your face and not knowing whether they might just take a quick jab at you, you want them to stand back.

Yes, you can film. You can 100% film cops. But do you want to take the attention off what's going on? You make it worse many times when that's done and make it more difficult for the officer. And sometimes the person will use that moment to maybe escalate the violence against the cop. So if you do film things, if you could just stay back a little bit, that would help all American police officers.

It really would. Could you just stay back 20 feet? Everywhere else, you listen. You listen at the concert when the security guy says, don't get near the band. But it seems like in a situation where a cop is trying to take someone off the street, people feel like, I've got to walk right up, and I've got to be involved in this. Because I'm going to be famous. So it's a problem. Do you see the footage, either one of you guys?

This would have been a couple of weeks ago. It was in the subway. It was in New York. and a guy hopped the turnstile, cop approached him, and a fight, I mean, it was a full-on fist fight, and the cop was in a horrible spot. He was being filmed by multiple people,

and to your point, they were five feet away. They were getting close-ups. There were pans. There were tilts. There were rack focuses, right? I mean, they're like, this is their film project. And the cop's getting the snot beat out of him, but he's bigger.

and you can see him pulling his punches. And there's a female cop with him. And she's not sure what to do. Now she's got her taser. She's got her gun. She's got a nightstick. And no one's using it. I was screaming in my living room.

And I didn't know who I was more frustrated with. The cop who was pulling his punches. The second cop who hesitated to get involved because now it's two against one. Right. Or the knuckleheads standing around. doing their best Cecil B. DeMill, it all combined just made me want to weep for the culture.

I'm with you. And again, there's no question. You have to put the premise out there that some police have gone too far in this country. No question. We've watched it. We've all watched it. They should go to prison. I've said that last year. But in a situation where you are being met with force and arrest, you have to use more force. And that's taught to us nationwide. That's not something new.

You have to use more force. It comes down to physics, right? It comes down to physics. You can't stop an object in motion without more force. And so you might have to hit twice when they hit once, or you might have to bend their arm harder to get that handcuff on, to get them secure so the fight is over. So sometimes that fight, you're just trying to get a hand. I've watched recently an Atlanta police officer who had some people in a park, and that was a great video. I thought the officer did a good job, but could not put a lady who said she's not signing the summons. And in those situations in many states, the law is You don't have to sign it, but if you don't sign it, we write you another summons,

and then if you don't sign that, you go to jail. And it was just a park. It was an area of the city of Atlanta that was having a real crime wave, and they wanted people to shut the parks down. The individuals at the park weren't causing any trouble, but the police officer was sent there to take care of it. Asked them to leave. The gentleman, he signed his summons, but the lady that was with him,

she got her phone out, started demanding badge numbers, and the cops said like seven times, just signed the ticket, ma'am. you won't go to jail. I just need you to. I'm not signing that. I'm not signing that. I'm not, no, sir. What's your badge number again?

He's told it three times. He said, finally, I've told you enough, ma'am. You've got my number. You've got it. It's on the paperwork. You're going to jail. If you don't sign this, please sign it. And he was really a gentleman.

And no, no, no. And then the fight. He said, well, you're under arrest. As soon as he put her hands on her, she screamed like she was in pain, dropped to the ground, started thrashing and screaming, leave me alone. I'll sign it now.

I'll sign it now. So some Americans look at that and say, well, now she'll sign it. Well, the cop can't let you go once he puts his paws on you because then it's just an assault if you accept it or, okay, I beat you up. I robbed you of your signature. In other words, I've forced you to sign by manhandling you. No, once they put their hand on you, as much as we'd like to stop and say, okay, sign it, you can't do that.

You've opened yourself up for serious lawsuits. If you grab someone, shake them up and then say, now sign it. that's an assault. So he had to continue the arrest, which looked horrible on tape, on his body cam and her camera, but he had to finish the arrest. And the individual that was with her

didn't interfere, but the cop knew what he was about to. He said, back up, you signed your summit, she's going to jail. It's over. She is going to jail. The world might look at that.

Wow, why can't you just let her sign it now? No, it's too late. Whatever happened to a consequence for an action? That's really what it comes down to for me. I grew up at a point where dad said don't do that, and then you did it and you had a consequence, whether it would be a swift kick down the hall to your room for four hours or whatever it was, but there are consequences to being woke and fighting the man. Shameless plug.

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Soon may the noble men come to bring a bottle for a Everyone one day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. What are the consequences, for instance, of a student loan program that doesn't require you to repay the student loan? What does that do to the otherwise sane mind who's searching for order and reason in an otherwise chaotic world? I sit in my vehicle and I think about these things and I have to hold my tongue because what it would do to me is if you were a prolific and lifetime student of the education system,

why wouldn't I go take another one? Why wouldn't I do it again? I'm going to go back and take some more classes this year because I don't really want to go to work. So I don't have to pay that one. I think I'll take humankind and fish hooks for 201 and I'll pay for it with government money because the government cheese is coming back again.

My kid went to college. I made him take student loans and said to him, we'll take care of this. We're going to pay the interest while we go because we didn't have to cash up front for a college education. So we took a loan. And I said, we're going to help you pay these off.

You're going to pay the interest during college because you're working. And he did. And he slept in his bedroom, which I wish I had sent him to the campus. For one year, he was away, but it was a difficult year. Anyway, at the end,

we helped him pay his student loans off so we wouldn't have it over his head. It's something we could do. It was great. But during the time, he paid his interest because we wanted to keep him as minimal as possible. And we took his money and made sure he was paying on his bills. But at the end, we paid it. And that was the gift that a parent can give.

Some parents can't give that gift. I'm sorry about that. But my significant one went to college completely on loans and grants, and they were paid for. It is odd to me that the price of college went up the minute you could get a loan for it. Right? The minute, as I recall, a Pell Grant came to you. It was $1,500 in 19.

I think her last year at school was $1,500. There was a lot of money in 1980, whatever. I can't give that away because she'll be upset. But we paid for it. But the minute you could get a loan for a college, just like the minute you can get a loan for a car, it's an exponential increase in the cost of those cars. And people say, well, it's only $300 a month.

Whatever. It's a nicer. I'm going to get the electric windows for 305 a month. And I'll get the, you know, it's weird to me. And you fought that battle already. I'm sure you've said the same thing. It's amazing to me. You're beating your head against a wall.

I know that. It's the bigger point of just feeling when you're living in a world where the consequences are actual, verifiable, something you can witness. And ideally, like justice, the ultimate consequence, if it's swift, you know, when people start to feel like, oh, Okay. There's a cause and an effect, right? If we see videos of people going into Walgreens and leaving with all kinds of stuff and not being stopped, well, you see one or two or three of those and you think there's a great injustice going on to that store vis-a-vis that thief. But when you see six or 10 or 20 or 50, something else happens. And now it doesn't have anything to do with law and order or the store or the crook.

It's happening in the viewer's mind and something is breaking down to your sandwich point earlier. You know? And when those things stack up, one after the next after the next, then you see good cops retiring too early and you see all sorts of other chaos happening. And that to me is what fundamentally has taken the wheels off the bus. What do you think before we seamlessly pivot into your next phase of existence as a brilliant writer? What has to happen?

What has to go splat before more good people start considering a career in law enforcement? I don't know because my brothers and sisters in the trade, I can't say that money didn't help, okay? but they did give us money. In the last couple of years, I've noticed a large increase. Our raise was really reasonable, but much of that was to do with the environment around us.

Smaller towns had to pay more, had to meet our salary, and what cops did in this area, and I'm not speaking out of school, cops have chosen departments where they're not busy, meaning smaller towns outside more suburban areas. Because they're like,

well, I'm taking two dog complaints, and I'm checking on an elderly ladies out by the mailbox on a 10-hour shift, rather than getting down in the dirt three times, ripping a uniform, getting punched in the face, getting called everything in the book by someone who got dropped off here by a transport bus from somewhere on the West Coast

because they saw that this was the gravy train, and they have no reason. They come from a place where they weren't held responsible. Sadly, west to east seems to be the migration of folks that say, well, if it's great here, you know, no one's doing anything to us here, let's go there. And then we have to almost respond in kind because we're inundated with these folks. So what cops I've seen have done, and I've watched it at my own department, they're like,

hey, I'm a three-year cop. I realized that I worked 60 hours a week last week. We had to do two concerts. I got forced overtime. But over there, in this town, three towns over, they will pay me $3 more an hour, and I won't have a call for two shifts. Where does a cop go? where does the American lazy man go?

He goes to or she goes to the place where you're not getting, you're not in the thick of it for two or three days straight and you're getting paid more money. So one of the problems of cops leaving isn't just that they're leaving the trade completely. I did, thank God. But the cops are leaving for places where it's easier to be a cop

where a town that expects a little law and order. They're smaller. There's more closer-knit relationship between the citizens and the council and the town wants to stay the way they are, and there are towns in America that want to stay the way they are. Comfortable places where you can go for a walk and go home without being accosted by sluggards, right?

So they're here in Maine. There's plenty. There's several cities in Maine that we have got a population of people that want to drink, drug, live on the street, and have no ramifications for whatever they do. So cops are leaving. Sluggards? Yeah.

Sorry, just a quick sidebar, but is a sluggard, where does that rank in between, say, a scofflaw or a miscreant? I think a sluggard would be less criminally tuned. A sluggard would be just someone who doesn't want to do a lot, but I think a miscreant is taking it to the next level. And if you get to, what was the other one, a slaw, what's my other S word? You got sluggard, you got sloth, you got sloth, you got. Sloth, but you got miscreants, I think, usually have criminal. Oh, scofflaw, a scofflaw. A scofflaw would be under 25.

I believe a scofflaw needs to be a younger person who doesn't shave and probably doesn't work all the time. What about a rapscallion? A rapscallion would be someone under 18 who still has a parent that will, you know, put the wood to them in a situation. You know, you're a little rapscallion. You might give them a quick, you know, tap. Right.

A loving tap. So rapscallions, I think, are younger than that. I think it's an age thing. Right. And rascals would be even, I guess, younger still. Yeah. I mean, you had the little rascals. A young sluggers.

why they're little. Rascals don't have a pistol. Okay. Rascals are not armed. Rascals are not armed. Okay. If you're a rascal, you cannot carry. Okay.

Maybe a slingshot. You know, something with some small stones. What about a shit heel? A shit heel. Let me think about that. That's just a typical walk through L.A. these days. You get a shit heel because there's shit everywhere.

Yeah, isn't that sad? Isn't that sad that we've accepted duty on the line? I mean, in Maine, you know, you're in trouble if you head into the woods with a couple, you drop your sewer off at the parking area, and if someone sees your crap in a hole and don't bury it right, they're upset. Can you imagine walking down the street and, you know, just stepping in it? I don't. I can't live that way. I just heard this, that part of the reason that we're seeing more of it is because we did away with plastic bags at grocery stores. Like a lot of people had the good sense to crap in a plastic bag and throw it somewhere. But now that they've eliminated plastic.

bags and you've got to use a paper bag, well, a paper bag doesn't hold the crap as well. It just wasn't made for crap, Chuck. It really wasn't. That wasn't designed for that. I like someone that carries their crap with them, you know, but we accept paper plastic bags if you do it for a dog. If you pick up for a dog, everybody thinks plastics okay, right? We pick up after our dogs in plastics, but we can't even let our Americans crap in a plastic bag. Think about the injustice. my gosh, here's a good story. I'm tempted to say that even though in a situation like this, even though you have retired, you're still on duty.

Oh, oh, oh, duty. Get it, let it. Just let it sit for a second, Tim. Sometimes you got to let the art wash over you. Wash right on it. Let the duty. Just bring the duty. We did have a situation.

I didn't write about it in gut warrants because the garage owner would be upset, but I'm not working in town anymore. My check's coming one way or the other. We had a fellow that opened a nice little garage. This is fantastic because it goes to Chuck's point of duty in bags. The people, he would stack his tires. Like back in the day when you went to a garage, do you remember you'd pull in, they're washing your windshield, little rag in the back pocket,

they're nice to your mother, you pee in a place, you use a key seven feet long, and outside were stacks of rubber tires, new tires, Tiger Pahs, Good Years, you had it all. It was a display of rubber in all its glory. What happened? This fellow thought, guess what happened? Well, the folks that walked by there decided, you know what, that's a good place to crap. Because you're sitting on top of the throne and they're leaving their waist in the center. No one sees it. If you're sitting on it, no one can tell if your pants are down.

No one cares. Look at that fellow just resting on some tires. Well, he's really taking a dump. And so the fella called us and said, I can't take it. Every day I sell a set of tires. I sold a set yesterday. I pick them up. There's four loads of human excrement in the center. And some of it, my guys are putting the tires on the cars. There's smear. It doesn't go. They do go on smoother, but they smell bad, right?

You know, you don't even need the lubricant to go on the rim. And we're like, I'm really sorry, man. This is horrible. So he's like, I don't want this getting into gut warrants thing. I said, okay, I'll give you that. Because it could cut down on his tire sales, right? I mean, I'll tell you what else happens, you sell a number of tires like that, and then you have people applying brakes in a normal way. What you're going to wind up with is a very serious skid mark. Thank you. Again, I can't be stopped. I'm two for two. Always on duty and a new kind of skid mark. These titles are coming fast and furious now. Man, duty on a tire. So, yeah, now the plastic bag thing is a great point, and I hadn't really thought of it. But I am.

upset because I always buy the paper bags because you never bring them in. I've got 700 of the bags that, you know, that you buy for 99 cents, but you never take it. So I was like, yeah, I'll take a couple of bags for five cents. They rip three feet outside the store. Your milk's on the ground. I did like plastic bags. And there's so much you can do with them, obviously, to Chuck's point. Do. But sadly, there are a few things you can't do. Tim Cotton, King of the world. You're in charge right now in your retirement. What is a fair and just punishment for crapping in public. And should there be some sort of Miranda warning that proceeds whatever your answer is?

Can I get a couple details here? As a legislator would have to do, well, has their genitalia showed? Because there's another crime there. If that was flashed, some part of their running gear happened to be showing, then the crime's steeper. So if you're just taking a crap... Exposure. If people are offended by the site of your Twitter,

and berries or something else. So there's two crimes there. But crapping in public should be at least a $200 fine. And if you cleaned it up, you take $50 off. You still crapped in public, but if you cleaned it up, it was like a $1.50. I think that would be a fair punishment. I think you got to do like you do when you train the dog and you stick their nose in it. Yeah.

I think we have to go to a different place, Tim. Back to consequences. Back to some kind of justice that would truly satisfy that which is fundamental. broken in our society. People, we need to see video that is a counterbalance to this unmitigated thievery that's closing down multiple Walgreens here in my neighborhood. We need to see something that somehow sets the record straight. You guys both do know that physicality is the issue. You know, I'm with you. And it's odd that I would say, let's fine them for taking a dump. But I've also realized that there is no physical punishment that ever occurs anymore.

There's no physical, you used to be jail was a horrible place, right? But there's no physical, there's no ramification for doing anything that I grew up, that, I did that. If I do that, I'm going to get hurt, right? There would be pain. Now, people are going to say, you can't spank, whatever. Listen, a spank given in love, properly made it out, changed my life, right? It changed my destiny.

So as a guy, and they're going, well, they obviously made you violent. That's why you became a cop and want to hurt people. Okay, no, I don't want to hurt people, but I also don't want to hurt, right? I don't want to hurt. I realize there's pain. When you burn yourself on a stove, you stop touching the stove, right? I don't know. I'm not saying we need to physically pummel people with ban mood.

Canings? Canings. I thought you'd go there. Now you're getting somewhere. I think there's got to be something to happen. What about the crap and the goose thing? What if you physically push the crap back into the, the perpetrator. Is that too much?

But is that a punishment? It's more of a punishment for me as the installer or the reinstaller, as it were. I'm just talking from the point of view for a moment of the viewer. What do I want to see? I want to see cops with rubber gloves pushing the poop back into the perp.

That, to me, it's not going to make everything better, but it would satisfy something. Chuck, you remember, and Tim, I'll just consider this a pitch. If you ever come to Hollywood, this is the kind of you're going to hear from people like me. I saw a guy on the Golden Gate Bridge a couple years ago throw a big gulp out of his window. We were stopped in traffic, right?

And I just was having one of those days. I got out of my car, I walked over, I picked up the big gulp, and I handed it to him. I said, here, you drop something. And we had that awkward moment where I thought, you know what, he's going to throw this at me or there's going to, you know, but he looks at him and he goes, hey, man, you're that guy from dirty jobs. And we laughed and everything was fine.

But on the walk back to my car, I thought, here's what... He would have shot me. He would have been plugged on the bridge. Instead, he asked me for an autograph, thereby avoiding fisticuffs. But that's beside the point. The point is, inspiration washed over me moments later. And I realized what should have happened right there was an episode of a show called Singapore Justice, where a cop gets this guy and says, look, I got you on film.

What you just did was you littered. on a national monument, the fee for this quadruples. You're going to get a ticket right now for $1,000. Or you're going to sign a release. You're going to step out of your vehicle. You're going to drop your pants. And Wanda here is going to take this cane. You hear it stick through the air.

And five wax. And you sign this release. Please tell me it's Wanda Sykes. Wanda Sykes comes out. Tim Cotton gives her a retan cane. And this guy agrees to not only get five wax on his ass, but to be filmed for an episode of Singapore

Justice in exchange for not having to pay the fine. I would take that over a grand. I would take a caning. I'd take five wax. I'd take five wax rather than spend a thousand bucks. And I would watch that show. I'd watch that show. And then I'd let you shove the poop back up my butt. I don't care. For that kind

of entertainment? Are you kidding? I want to bring this up nationally because I don't have really a national platform like you guys do, but something I've watched happen. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be right here in River City. One thing I've noticed over the years running the Facebook page for Bangor PD is that I wanted to write something in my blog about it, but I've watched our cops who are canine officers do great work with their dogs.

But I've also watched simple assault during an arrest when the dog had to put the bite on someone. And no one ever to this point, and I swear to this is true, has ever been mad about the dog. biting the perk. Now if you've been bitten by a dog and I have, you know how much pain there is in a dog. But I watch people in the comments, I'd put it on. We had one of our officers, great officer, good job. This guy wants to fight with him. He kids big and he could have throttled this person, but his dog got out of the car, grabbed that guy by the wrist who was punching the officer and the cop didn't punch him. And the comments were overwhelmingly so positive for that dog. Good dog. It's about time that. That

guy got bitten. And good for him. I hope he lost his arm. I wish they'd bit him in the groin. He should have got him. Let that dog bite him. What a good dog. If that cop had punched that guy one time, we would have been answering questions for six months of the brutality that happened. But if a dog does it, no one in America is mad. And if you put rescue in front of that dog, that dog, by the way, is a rescue. Picked up somewhere in southern Georgia. as a canine officer, that dog grew up chained to a tire. Oh my God, he rescued it, and it kills humans. And they love it.

So what I suggest is that every cop gets a dog. $500 dog, rescue dog, teach them to bite. Whenever this arrest situation, you get the dog out, you sit them down, the person goes peacefully, no bite. The minute they fight, dog bites them, okay? And we'll pay for the injuries. I love this. I guarantee America would,

be so happy with police officers and there would be a cleanup of the rescues from the south of America. So give it some thought. No one's mad about it. It wouldn't work with a snake, you know, like if a cop had a snake. I don't think that would. Not as good. You just wouldn't be, you can't stick the snake on him. Oh, that fur baby. Look, Mama loves the fur baby tearing his limb off. And that's what happens. So Americans accept violence, but only when perpetrated by dogs. Interesting. Okay, look, I think. think Singapore justice is a broad enough umbrella that we can carve out a segment for man bites dog, dog bites man, some sort of thing.

You'd have a spin-off like you've had. Singapore canines. Oh, I like it. Singapore canine justice. And bring all the dogs over from Asia. They're small. They all look the same, right? They do.

They all have bred into this 20-a-pound dog that looks like that's... That might be racist, Tim. I don't know. Can you say all dogs from Asia look the same? Can you actually say that? I could say it about Iraq. All dogs in the streets of Iraq look the same because they've all interbred. I heard that it only takes like six generations for all our dogs to return to their original, wild, thin, pointed to use.

Yeah, Labradors turn into these little demon dogs in Iraq and six generations. So that's why I say they look the same. Where the hell did you read that, by the way? I want to take a deeper look into that. Six generations away from all dogs looking identical? Well, I mean six generations. That dog would have to breed another time. those puppies would have to breed another.

So it's like Kevin Bacon. You're six degrees away from Iraqi muts in the street in Baghdad or Singapore or any country in the world. So it isn't racist. It's really more the truth of the biological system. We're going to all revert to a certain looking dog. Speaking of racist, here's a show I can't pitch anymore. It's not really racist, Chuck. Relax.

But I mean. Chuck's like I'm going to shimmer off. My butt tightened up a little too hard right there. In the same week that I was shopping Singapore Justice really just. to see what the executives were due. I was pitching a show about clairvoyance who were on the road doing palm reading, right? And like all kinds of astrology and stuff.

And little people were really, really, like all the rage, there were a couple of shows on that featured dwarves and midgets. And so the networks were looking for these. Can you say midgets? You did. No, you can't. I mean, no, a midget is different than a dwarf. True. Yeah, but you say little people.

people, you don't know if it's a dwarf or a midget. That's true. It used to be we all would talk about that, about eighth grade. Like, well, I think the midget is different than the dwarf, and someone would explain to you that they were. Yeah. See, Chuck, that's wrong. You just painted with a very broad, like all little people are the same, just because they're little. I mean, a lot of dwarfs are going to take, you don't toss midgets, you toss dwarfs, right? I mean, that I've read as well.

Yes. The point is, Tim, this show very nearly got lit up. clairvoyance, who were a combination of midgets and dwarves, out in the world telling fortunes. I called it small mediums at large. And we nearly, nearly sold it on the title. It was that close. It's like the East Westchester North Stars,

champions of the Southern Division from the Cheech and Chong album in 73. That's right. Yep, the East Westchester North Stars. So what was it? Small mediums at large. Small mediums at large. Yeah. Midget, clarifoyance out in the world reading palms. I mean, give me a break. I actually like it. I like it. I'd watch it. I am on your new web page, newish. Tim Cotton. Tim Cotton writes. Right. Right.com. Sure. I clicked in the course of my vast preparation for what I knew would be a highly regimented conversation. I went to your page and I started clicking on things. to see if you've actually become completely untethered. And I read the unmitigated joy of a midday shower. I loved it.

I loved writing it. But that didn't take off as well as I thought it would. I thought, you know, why I wrote it based on the title, I said, I was in the shower. We talked showering last time, I think, in shade of you and I. Not each other, but Chuck. So that was a piece that I wrote and I hadn't had a shower. Man scapey, I believe, Mike called it. We did talk a lot about shicks.

So that was a piece I did and I really liked it. And I thought, boy, I put that in a book. But it didn't take off as well. I think that one was the week I lost my domain name. And I think my website kind of crashed. But the unmitigated, think of that, the unmitigated joy of a midday shower because I have a skylight and I was in all my glory, which is horrific in hot water and the sun shining through. And I'd never had a shower in the midday in my own house because I got up at three or I

work midnight or whatever I did. And I said, this has got to be one of the biggest and greatest things that's ever happened to me because I enjoy the little things. The federal government is not going to close America's skills gap. They have an important role to play for sure. But if we're serious about reinvigorating the skilled trades on a national level, we need more organizations like Skills USA making a real difference on a local level. These guys have been around since 1965, and today they are relevant like never before with hundreds of chapters in schools all over the country and hundreds of thousands of students participating and competing every year. Nobody is doing more to train the next generation of skilled workers than Skills USA. And I'm encouraging you to at least consider being a part of this movement.

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That's skillsusa.org slash mic. I'm talking skills, U.S. skills. U.S. Skills USA. USA. But it's not a little thing. What I love about this little story is that what do you write here? It's a small thing, but small things are big things when peered at through a stream of hot water and a sunbeam.

And you're exactly right. Whenever you stumble across or Forrest Gump your way across an indulgence at this point in life, when you think pretty much you know where all the treats and the rewards are and you know where all the misery and the pain is, when you find something new, that's awesome. And that's what I like about a lot of your writing. You're not on here because you were a good cop, though you were, and you're not on here because you're a really good writer, which you are. You're on here because you're both.

And in your writing, you did something for the trade that most cops can't do. And so I'm burying a question and some compliments, but I didn't say it up front. So now that you've retired, the writing is going to take up the lion's share of your time, which incidentally, you know what the lion's share really means? Most people think it means... The leftover body parts from a killing in Rome, I assume? The lion's share means all of it. Not most of it, all of it.

Because when the lion comes, if it wants everything, it takes everything. It takes what it wants. Anyhow, with respect to your time, most of it is going to be. to be spent writing from the jagged edge of America. So explain to me how that's going to continue promoting the betterment of the species. Well, what I've noticed is that I enjoy driving around with no place to be and stopping into small stores in America because I meet the people. I think there's a piece in my new book calls, what a nice guy. All that story was was I happened to be at the Harrington Irving in Maine on the coast, a place where you stayed, by the way, a friend of mine you stayed in her

cabins years ago down there, Kathy Strout. Oh my God, I remember her. This was like on the lobster shoot or something for dirty jobs? It's amazing. I met a bread store in Harrington, Jennifer Perrault's place, and she does some fantastic bread, and Kathy is there. I grew up in Caskell, Maine for a short time. My dad was a minister, and Kathy was a young kid, friends with my sister. So fast forward. Kathy moves down east. She gets cabins, which, by the way, my sister and my sister, I was going to stay in one this weekend. But Kathy and I are talking, and she said, you know, Mike Crow stayed at my place. I said, well, you need a micro slept here sign.

I mean, that's the most, you know. That's not all he did. And so we talked, and I didn't know you stayed there. So anyway, long story short, I'm in Harrington at that same Irving, and a guy with a ducktail, he dressed up. And it's in the book, and I won't get carried away. But he was, he cleaned himself up to go get a COVID shot. Now, I don't want to play COVID garbage within you. I don't want to talk about it.

but I knew that he needed, he wanted his shot. He had pressed jeans, came out of an arrow when you combed your hair in that grease. He had a plaid shirt, maybe snaps, and he was showing me how he mixed his coffee, because I drink it black, but that day I was getting sugar. And he and the girl that was cleaning up the counter talked about Jerry, who had just died. And he said, he's a nice guy, man, he went fast. And I was listening. You know, I was listening because I love to listen to the conversations.

And then he'd look to me and said, you know what I do to mix my sugar is I take two cups, like I did when I was drinking. Now, obviously, he's sober, so I get that story. His hands are gnarly, lobstermen, and he shows me how he puts the cream in one side, and then he pours the two cups back and forth because those stupid, thin sticks can't barely stir coffee. He's right.

Those sticks don't stir coffee. You need five. So you're trying to save on the environment. You're using five bamboo sticks that could be used in Singapore justice. And anyway, I've talked to him for a while, and then I bought his coffee on the way out, because I just enjoyed listening.

listening to this, right? What I'm saying, I guess, is I like to document the things that aren't being documented. That's why I like to write. That's a story that anybody could hear, but I got more out of it. I got more like he was a former alcoholic. He's going to get a shot, but he came from an era when you cleaned up to go to town, right? You're going to town close. And he looked good, tucked in new jeans. Everything about him was like shiny shoes because he was going somewhere. And I thought, we've lost so much in America. I dress like a slob now, right? Because I'm retired. Now, man, look at that shirt. Look at that tablecloth.

Whatever that thing was. It's great. Yes. But that's the stuff. So when I walked out, I paid for his coffee. Now, he had just said Jerry was a nice guy, and that's what I got. Jerry died quickly from cancer. I was there for three minutes.

I'm walking out. I said, hey, I got that guy's coffee back there. The girl goes, oh, good. So as I walked out the door, he goes, he paid for my coffee. I hear it. He goes, yeah, he paid for your coffee. He goes, do you know him? And the door's shutting.

And she says, no. And he says, what a nice. guy, right? So I thought I was compared to this dead Jerry, who was a nice guy, but all I'd done is buy a coffee. I brought the simplicity of it together in that piece, thinking, that's all you have to do to make someone happen, these little simple moments. So that shower kind of equates to that. It's something that we overlook too much because we're looking for this big thing. La Lotto, a billion dollars, a new car. The unmitigated joy of a midday shower should not be overlooked. That's what I write about. You remind me a lot of my mother in so many ways.

No, in that one way. My mother's carrying some water right now. That woman is some impressive. She's on fire. It's fantastic. She tells super, super similar stories about little moments. She's a little moments. She's an observer.

And I think that's important. That's what I want to ask you about. All cops. Okay. Cops are different. They're like snowflakes. They're like anybody else. Sure.

But if I were to assign a general quality, to every cop I've ever met. It's the fact that they're observers. They're always looking, always watching. Typically, you know, it's a survival instinct. It's part of your job. But as a writer, as a writer, has that trait, I'm asking questions I know the answer to,

but it must have been formed everything. Yes. I'm delving into fiction now for my next book that's coming out in November, isn't fiction, it's another collection. What's it called? It's called Dawn in the Dooryard, Reflections from the Jagged Edge, and it's available everywhere for pre-order. So that's a collection of stories, but my next book, which I'm finally getting my, I took three months off when I retired.

Two months, I just wanted to write on my blog at Timcottwrights.com. You should join folks. It's free. But the next book is going to be a fiction based on all these things I've collected, and it's going to be a suspenseful kind of adventure of a angry, retired cop who spends time on the jagged edge and gets himself in some things. But it isn't going to be a typical, because I can't be a great mystery writer anyway. I can't write. I cannot connect anything I've done to a possible nuclear war. I've realized that the big books, somewhere along the line, somebody is stolen, the recipe for a

bomb, stolen a bomb, and there's local cops working on nuclear problems. I haven't seen it. in my time. But what I have seen is idiocy, humor, dark moments. And I want to relate that through my story because I don't like hero stories. I love to hear true hero stories, but I'm not a hero. And I like to write about the realities of most cops don't want to be involved in stopping a nuclear war. They want it so you can go to Walgreens and not pay more for the card for your mother. Because every, so the simplicity of life, I want to relay that, and I want to relay the characters that I've met in Down East Maine, because there's so many. And one of the chief characters in my book is named Booger, because there's so many good names down East. It can be a fun, darker than what people expect from me, but that'll be out next year.

How did you pick Booger? Oh, geez. Thank you. That's three. My work is done. I put one finger, and I just used my finger, and I pointed, and that's what came up. There's booger and there's so many great names. I mean, anywhere rural America, the names that people have,

because I do know someone named Snots. And so from the Snots. Unrelated. If you get booger and snotts together in the same whodunit, what a caper that would be. If you get booger and snot to stop the next nuclear bomb from going off. It'll be sticky, but it'll be good. Yeah, no.

So anyway, I'm looking forward to finishing that and getting at that, but I'll still be the collector of stories, minor incident and unmitigated joy of midday showers or no vacancy or whatever. I just, that's what I'm right about. Well, this is, again, the publishers told my mom straight up again and again, we're not buying collections of stories. We're not interested in your little whimsical observations on the human conditions. It's just not what people want.

Unless you're David Sedaris, right? Sure. Absolutely. But, you know what? They're wrong. You're proof of it. My mom is proof of it. Incidentally, do you want to be America's cop? Me?

I'm asking. Think about it. But I'm asking. Because Mike has this power. Because apparently Chuck has told me, this is what's happened. This is so crazy. My mother, in the course of having a conversation with me in some interview at some point, I referred to her as America's grandmother.

His grandmother, right. And this producer is like, hey, that's really catchy. Where'd that come from? And I'm like, well, she's got a few hundred thousand Facebook friends, and they treat her like their grandmother. So I'll skip over all of the weird little links. But last week, Sunday night, a show, a primetime special on Fox News, starring my mother, premieres called America's Grandmother. Now, I had no idea I had this kind of power. Chuck is a little freaked out by it.

But as I sit here right now in this humble thing, I realize, what if I referred to you as America's cop? And what if suddenly there's a special called America's Cop starring Tim Cotton and featuring his many whimsical outlooks on life? What a nice guy. I would love that only because I would like to be the cop that shows up. I really do. I want to be the cop that you'd want to talk to. The cop you'd want to. I got in trouble when I wrote an article years ago.

When you come up to me, just say hello. I wrote a piece because I really got sick of people saying thank you. And it's not because I don't appreciate them saying thank you, but I don't feel like I've done anything for you. But what I would like to do is say, how are you? A nice day. I think that that's the kind of cop people want in their town. You know, they might ask you, hey, do you know what happened over on Bridge Road?

Was that accident? Was Larry drunk? You know, they want to know that. But in the end, what a human. I don't want to be thought of as the vested, tattooed, tough guy, because that wasn't me. I did have a very good confession rate, and I put a lot of people in jail for murder, sex crimes.

And so I'm really proud of that. But outside that, I'm just a guy doing a job like every other cop in America. We all have a page now, and we're all whimsical and sarcastic, and we've all, you know, truth, justice, and the American way. Hey, I just want to be a guy who you want to talk to, tell a story to something I can relay so other people can realize that cops are just the humanness. A nice guy, Tim.

a nice guy. I don't know. I don't know. You bought a cup of coffee. You don't know what you did for that guy. Actually, you probably do. I surprised him. Yes. That's what I did.

I surprised him because he surprised you. Yes, that's true. I just enjoy the little moments of life and I'm trying to just soak them up and that's what I want to do. I mean, really, what I wanted to do at the beginning of this year, first of all, I didn't win that stupid van that was on internet. You know, the van you gave away, the road trip. Sorry about that.

Yeah. I bought 5,000. You know, I bought 5,000 because I really would like to take that road trip. I did. I bought 5,000 because you were always on there touting it. You know how much we raised with that crazy thing? How much? How much was it? For the foundation, nearly $900,000. That's incredible. And that's the only reason, truthfully, Mike, because I knew I wouldn't win anything. The only reason I did it was to help the foundation. But I would have taken a ride in that van that would have been an epic road trip. Of all people, a retired cop is going to get in the van. because the TV guy said, hey, you want to take a ride?

Hop in the van. I want to be the Charles Carault without two families. That's what I want to do. I want to be the Charles Corral that doesn't have a chick in Montana. That always upset me. That might be the title, Chuck. I want to be the Charles Carault without two families. But I love Charles Carralt.

We all did. But it was a letdown when I realized he was living two lives. But his shrimp scampy recipe is incredible that's in that book. He was on more than the run. road, my friend. He was. So yeah, America's cop is a great thing, but I think I just want to be America's mope at regular guy taking midday showers, you know, and writing about it. And some people think it's weird. I don't care. America's cop is always on duty. That's not bad either. D-O-O-T-Y, duty. Yes. That could work too. Or I-E duty, yeah. Duty. One quick suggestion,

since we're talking about showers and you've forced an image into my retina that I don't know that I'll ever be able to wash out. But next time you're standing there naked in your shower with the sunbeams coming through your skylight, do yourself, I won't say it's a favor, but experiment with the last 90 seconds of time in the shower by just turning it full cold and stand under cold water. If you can do that every day for a minute or two, everything I've read about this regarding better circulation and just general invigoration and reinvigoration, it's true. I've been doing it now for three months. It's tightened up some areas of my body that are typically not that tight when I step out of a long hot shower, if you know what I'm saying. I don't want to know what you're saying. Yeah, you do.

Basically, you've just embraced the Finnish lifestyle is what you've done. You're like a swede now. I mean, isn't that what they do? I mean, without the taxes. Sona. And then they've done. Sauna. Without the taxes and the unmitigated joy of knowing that everyone from some other country has moved there and taken over everything. Yeah, I will. I'm going to try, you know what I'm going to do, Mike and Chuck. I'm going to do it for 25 seconds tomorrow morning. I'm going to move up slowly to the 90 seconds of folk old.

Just the tip, Tim. Just take it easy. Just a little bit, a little bit than a little bit more. And I'm going to look for areas that weren't as tight and watch them become taught. At that point in time. You're going to have a ball. I'm excited about it and I'm going to be talking. Years ago, feeling very sorry for myself driving home to Baltimore from Pennsylvania where I was still working at QVC.

I was in the toll lane and really just so angry. I don't even remember what I was angry about, but it was a full-on kind of pity party, blame the world, poor me kind of thing. Sure. And the person in front of me, apropos of nothing, paid my toll. Oh, okay. And I never got to thank them. I couldn't catch up with them. You just did it.

And I like it. For about three or four years after that, especially when I was feeling flush, didn't happen right away, but my fortunes turned around and things were looking good. And I started paying the toll for whoever was behind me. I honestly don't know why I stopped doing it. I don't know why I stopped standing up when women walked in. I've got to start doing these things again. They're easy to do.

but difficult to maintain unless you really form the habit. But, I mean, I just love the idea. You don't really know what you do when you pick up somebody's coffee or pay their toll. It said too much, but you just don't know. It's funny you say that I had a teacher, and I'll shout him out now, my English teacher in high school, Bill Priest, Vietnam Vet, Wounded in Vietnam, Boston University grad taught at a small Christian school in Maine making no money. He still does it.

He's probably 7570. He stops over once a year and asks me, when's the next book coming out? He just stops for 10 minutes to say, how are you? He taught us from seventh grade on, seventh and eighth grade, I was in his classroom. And whenever anyone came in the room, we all stood up. It wasn't a school-wide issue. It was Bill Priest. And he was right.

He was right. We showed respect to the person who came in our room every time. And if you didn't, you would feel the thunder because he was that kind of guy. But a very kind man, and he's worked for free at schools. He's still teaching this day, and he accepted my writing and threw me out of his classroom. I can't tell you how many times because, you know, I like to have a good time, and it really wasn't into being edjimicated. But I learned from him. Go back to the feel of the thunder, though.

It's consequences, once again, Tim, always. Sure. Always. If you didn't stand, you were in deep, and you were scared of the guy, but yet later on, he is probably one of the most beloved teachers in that school historically just tremendous. And he made us do things that we wouldn't do anywhere else. So your idea of standing when people, a lady comes in the room, and that's what he would want most, but if it was an adult, we stood up. Yeah. And it taught you something for one year, you did that, and it stuck with you.

You know, and to this day, I think I'm polite, I hold doors. I've been yelled at for holding a door for certain individuals that walk by, and I'm always just, I look at them and think, I wish I had just smashed it right off your back. But you're welcome. But you're right. These little things that you talk about, I think you're right. I think we're missing something. and I think we're missing just simple rules, and they're very easy to follow. No matter how interesting we are, Tim,

study after study shows people start to hate me when I talk for more than 90 minutes on this thing. So we've got to land the plane, but not before I tell you that you're welcome back anytime. Oh, with your permission, because having you back in November might be a little too premature, but I want to start doing some different things on this platform

And long story short, I would love with your permission to read a story or two on this platform. Fantastic. I would love it if you'd do that. That would be a great thing. Because look, I think you've got a real talent. And I think you've tapped into that same sort of zeitgeist that my mom has stumbled across. And people need it, man. People need it.

Never mind the small mediums at large or the Singapore justice. There's a thousand things to laugh at. But finding a moment, finding a small. moment and making it large. You're good at that. I'm sad that America has lost another great cop, but I'm excited for you. Yeah, me too. Because I think some good things are coming to you. They're on the edge, the jagged edge, as you say. The jagged edge of America. Well, it's very kind of both you guys. I love talking to you. And I love it when people say, I've discovered you through Mike Roe and Chuck. And I'm like, well, that's really nice that you say that. Do they really say Chuck? Do they really?

They do say Chuck. I use Chuck every time I talk about you because I love Chuck. And I love the name Chuck, and I've told you that. You know what I think about Chuck is I think I know who you are, Mike, and the world knows who you are. But it's those people that hold us up. And that's not a suck up to you guys. But the persons who hold us up or help us out or do those chores that no one else is doing, he's stuck with a dirty job. He has to, you know, make you look great. And I don't have a plastic bag.

Yeah. He follows me around with plastic bags. says you are but a man and picks up my leavings. So I appreciate that. I want my own Chuck. I want a Chuck someday. Well, maybe as the podcast expands, maybe we can carve out a small little daily devotional

called What the Chuck, where he gets to weigh in with some sort of pithy thing. Assuming we can monetize it, of course, because more and more filthy lucre. Tim Cotton Wright is the place online where you should go to read about the unmitigated joy of a midday shower in many, many, many other slightly warped reflections from the jagged edge.

Your new book is called? Dawn in the Dooryard, Reflections from the Jagged Edge of America. For God's sakes, go to Amazon or whatever giant behemoth is currently in charge. Pre-order helps me because they might sign me up for another book. You know, you never know. You can throw you up. Pre-orders help. A mope like me.

Maybe I'll buy you a coffee. And it comes out in November. No, your first, Chuck. Thank you. Awesome. Congrats on your retirement. Thank you for keeping it real. keeping it light. I'm going to hook you up with my mother

in a completely platonic way one of these days. Yeah, that sounds awkward. Yeah, I love to speak to her sometimes. She's just a great... I just love watching this happen, and she's a force to be reckoned with in the publishing world now, and I love that someone told her that no one wanted that, because people told me that, too. More

people have told me that than they've told her that. But the fact is, those little stories do matter in people's observations of life are important. You two are going to be great judges on the first episode of Singapore Justice. Dun dun dun. America's grandma.

America's grandmother and America's cop. And America's cop. On duty. Always on duty. Hey guys. And small mediums at large coming soon. Thank you. I like it.

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