The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 287: Chuck Klausmeyer—Sooner or Later, You've Gotta Squeeze the Beaver

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

On the two-year anniversary of The Way I Heard It's format change from short to long form, Mike and Chuck make another announcement about the future of the podcast, and there is a lot of talk about an upcoming episode of Dirty Jobs that involves… you guessed it, squeezing beavers.  

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A lot of good it did me. We just spent 40 minutes. Got nowhere. It's so ridiculous. Hi, everybody. It's the way I heard it. I think we might be on the verge of establishing some sort of a trend, maybe a pattern, because two years ago, on Black Friday, I think, you and I sat down here at my house,

at the kitchen table to talk about the future of this podcast. In an episode we called What the Chuck. Thanksgiving, right, or something, yeah. It was certainly Thanksgiving, but I just was trying to get your name and the title of one of these things. because part of what we were talking about doing shortly after these, you know, we were locked down. We were looking at the future of this podcast and thinking, you know, does it make sense to take a break from writing these short stories and start leaning into conversations with maybe between the two of us, maybe with guests? We didn't really know what we were doing two years ago. And today I'm pleased to report that after 24 months of experience, we still don't quite know what we're doing.

But by God, we're doing it. okay, well, here's how I remember it, which is slightly different. The way I heard it was this, that you had written 170 plus stories. And it was very difficult to do because it took so much time to write each one of these stories. And it was like, we don't want to stop the podcast. We've built an audience. And, you know, we were a big podcast, biggest short form at one time in the world. Number one, Chuck.

The number one downloaded short form podcast. podcast on planet Earth, as I recall. That was true. So it was like we didn't want to just walk away from it. Then we decided that we would put up your book one chapter at a time and talk about it. Right. And then it evolved into the conversations got a lot of attraction. People enjoyed that.

And so then it turned into conversations. Now, I want to just say one thing, I'm going to tease something slightly to come later because things are going to change again, but we won't. tell you until a little bit later. Oh, look at you. Well, you should tell me too, because I'm not entirely sure. You have no idea. If you haven't pieced it together, folks, I mean, this is a legitimate episode. I don't have a legitimate guest. It's just me and my old buddy Chuck. But I do seriously think it's worth having a conversation just to kind of take the state of the union, literally, our country, but also what's going on with this podcast. It does continue to evolve. And it is the time of year when you

thank people for doing these things. We have an audience. I was scared. I was going to lose you guys, to be honest, because people, they don't like it. They don't like change. Change is bad most of the time, yeah. I don't really like it either. I like certainty, but I like uncertainty. And I thought, what podcast do I listen to that I really enjoy and why do I enjoy them? And then why do I get bored with them? I think because, like Joe Rogan, I can't believe I haven't been on his podcast yet for God sakes. Ridiculous. But I like Joe Rogan's podcast.

But by the same token, it's a lot, right? I mean, a three-hour episode, three or four of them a week. I mean, it's crazy. Anyway, if I have my way, this podcast will continue to evolve. It will become a box of chocolates, you know? Well, hang on. Am I saying too much? I just teased.

I said, we're going to tell you later. You can't tell them now. That just defeats the whole point of the tease. Fine, fine. Look, I didn't realize you had a plan. I thought you drove up here to have Thanksgiving dinner. with your old buddy, hang out for a couple of days, maybe chat, have a catch up. I didn't know you've got this whole well-ordered plan in your mind. Well, I wouldn't describe it as well-ordered,

but I do have a plan. And first of all, let me just say that two years ago, that's when we changed the format. It was this time, Black Friday, like you said, that we sat down and we announced that the podcast was going to change. Dirty Jobs, you know, wasn't coming back. Now it's coming back. Six degrees hadn't aired yet. The story behind the story. hadn't aired yet. True. Returning the favor was going to come back. In production?

In production. And you were going to win an Emmy that year during the lockdown. Yeah. I didn't know that, of course. Of course you didn't know that. I didn't know anything. Yeah. And how America works didn't exist.

Didn't exist. Yeah. So a lot has changed. I see where you're going. And we were super, super locked down. Right? I drove up here for the first time. Every other time I'd come up, I'd flown.

I drove up here for the first time because I didn't want to get on a plane. I didn't want to spread the virus. I didn't want to get the virus and then give it to you. That would be ridiculous. And now I've driven up like four or five times because I like it better than flying. I think I've only flown up here once. Flying is a drag, man. I got to tell you, I never stopped.

We worked really hard after the lockdown to, I mean, not ignore it. Don't get the wrong idea. I was working with a couple different production companies at the same time, and we complied. We wanted to follow the rules, but mostly we wanted to work. Well, you're trying to figure out a way to work within the confines of this epidemic.

Yeah, but you know, I mean, for me anyway, and I know there are so many, we're still coming out of this, so gradually individual results, individual people. We're also different, you know, the way we think about it and process it. But for me, I wasn't just anxious to work because I wanted to keep my people employed, although I was.

It wasn't simply about keeping the business on its feet, though it was, earning a living. All that stuff mattered. But for me, underneath of it, there was something else. And I still struggled to articulate what that was, but it was a need, a need to somehow work and to find a way to live in this eternal. caution flag environment that we were living in. I just, I really gave it an honest two weeks. I was so on board. You remember, I made promos. I made PSAs. Yeah. Two weeks to flatten the curve. I ate so much crow, man, early on. Not that I regret any of it. I signed on for, I remember saying,

in the first Zoom show that was ever done, it was after the catch, right? After Deadliest Catch, We did a Zoom show with the captains in April, right? Right, right. Pretty early on. This happened fast. And I remember, I remember staring into the tiny lens on my computer, which was the sudden replacement for the full on video camera. Right. And saying to Sig Hanson and, you know, half a dozen other captains who were on the call, I remember saying, guys, I think for the first time, we can say it with a straight face.

we're all in the same boat. We're all locked down together. We're all going to flatten the curve in two weeks. There was goodwill. There was fear. Yeah. It was almost like in the wake of 9-11 when people really came together

and we were scared, but we were determined. If that meant washing fruit and standing six feet apart and wearing masks or not wearing masks? Spraying your mail. Spray your mail, right? Whatever it meant,

there was so much, Goodwill during those first two weeks. Yeah. I remember standing out here on my deck, listening to the sounds from San Francisco, coming across the water, from Sausalito, coming across the bay, people howling. Ow!

Like at 8 o'clock every night, people howled. Really? I didn't know. For two minutes. Why? To celebrate the first responders. Oh, right. To celebrate the frontline health care workers.

They would howl. from their decks. It was chilling, but it was also awesome, right? Yeah. And so, like, in that time, during those two weeks, I said some things that I truly believed,

like, we're all in the same boat. I made public service announcements that ran all over the Discovery Channel and beyond, all over the Internet, encouraging people to take a deep breath and embrace the idea that we're all in the same boat. Well, bull crap. We weren't in the same.

same boat. We were in the same storm. Right. But we were not in the same boat. And when two weeks went to four and four went to eight, I started to think, you know what? There is no exit plan. And I'm not saying we did anything wrong at that time. I wasn't certain. I'm not certain now, to be clear, but I was pretty sure that with no clear metric on how to return to normal, we were never going to return to normal until some jagged little pills started to break some eggs. Well, the thing that I noticed in you

almost right away, like during the first two weeks, or sorry, after the first two weeks, when it got extended to 40 days, what I noticed in you was this could be the new normal. And you started thinking, we had so many conversations, so many long walks, long distance,

talking about the way to try to find some normalcy to keep the shows going, you know, you were constantly looking for a way. You were like adapt or die. I was desperate. I didn't realize it at the time, but I wasn't desperate to do it to keep the lights on. We were going to be fine. Yeah. I'm not some essential worker whose livelihood is totally dependent on his next paycheck.

I'm going to be okay. And my people are going to be okay. But I nevertheless really truly felt a genuine kind of desperation. to get back to work. And I really wasn't sure why. It's probably why we talk so much about it. It's like, just take a breath and relax. You know what?

You've been praying for some time to write. So look at this as a couple of months. How'd that work out? I couldn't write. Every time I sat down to write, whether it was one of these short stories for the podcast. Or the book that you owe a certain publisher? I write.

I couldn't put the ball through the hoop. For the first time in my professional career, I had a large chunk of time that I could have devoted to doing the thing I craved. And I couldn't do it, dude. Right. I couldn't organize my thoughts. My brain felt like the desktop looks on my computer. Oh, you were a sponge for all the information that you wanted to know everything you could

know about this thing, what the possibilities were and what could be done. Who's getting it right? Who's getting it wrong? You were really, really focused on it. you couldn't think about anything else. I know. I know. And you got to remember, too, on Friday the 13th, I came home from... I remember that. From Vegas, yes. I came home from Las Vegas where I had headlined the last giant social gathering in the country was ConExpo.

And it was 2020. And had that event started one day later than it did, It would have been canceled, but it didn't. It started on March 9th. And on March 8th, the organizers had to make their decision. Now, you've got 300,000 people, dirty jobbers from all over the world, who came together in Las Vegas to essentially have a bacchanalia and buy the equipment they needed to do the dirty jobs, right?

This is every four years, every three or four years, this event happens. And I always go. And I had been invited by Caterpillar to. speak and I was there. I was there the night before Cat had to decide whether or not to throw the flag, pull the plug, or go for it. Now, if they cancel, the entire event will topple. They're the biggest exhibitor. Volvo had already canceled. So all eyes are on Caterpillar. And if Cat Cancells, oh my God, you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars right down the toilet. And I wasn't in the room when they decided, but I feel like somebody must have just flipped a coin because it was that close.

And they decided to go for it. And so Con Expo began in 2020 on March 9th. And later that day, that same day on March 9th, the Domino's started to fall. Major League Baseball. Hockey. Canceled. Disneyland. closed.

I would go onto the stage. I would tell some dirty job stories and then I come off stage and I'd check my phone to see that, oh look, Broadway, closed. Every couple of minutes, something giant was canceled. And every 15 minutes, you'd hear over the loudspeakers. Please stay six feet apart.

Please wash your hands. We had all these Purell stations. But here's the crazy thing, right? My job at ConExpo was to shake hands. That's my job. Tell stories and shake hands. Take pictures. Tell stories.

Just be there with the people who build America's infrastructure and shake their hands. And that's what I did. And for four days, when it was crystal clear that we had ourselves a major problem. And so when I came home, Chuck, on Friday the 13th, every step I took, it was a It was like hearing the sounds of ice cracking behind you as you're trying to leave Las Vegas. I was the last guy out of the hotel. I was the last flight out of Vegas. And the second I got home, Newsom shut down California.

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That's when I thought, okay, we can do this. That's when I started howling at 8 o'clock at night with all the people in this community. That's when I started doing PSA announcements. And that's when I started saying things like, hey, we're all in the same boat. We can get through this. And when I realized that I was wrong, when I realized that this wasn't going to end, the way we were told it was going to end, I got desperate. I got desperate to work.

I just couldn't write. I couldn't think. I couldn't just sit here and wait for the caution flag to become all clear. And I'm not saying that because I'm better or worse or smarter or stupid than anybody else. It just didn't work for me. And consequently, we wound up doing the first Zoom show in the history of prime time. We wound up doing the first field production show. Dirty jobs.

A month later was out there shooting road trip, R-O-W-E-D. Super clever. Because we're terribly clever. But, I mean, I wasn't doing it because we had to do it for any other reason than to stay sane. I was losing my mind. And I think that's when I realized that for me, work really had become something that had nothing to do with the transactional necessity of a paycheck. or really anything else. It was just the freedom to be able to make a living.

And man, by hook or crook, I just had to try. Well, I remember you coming back from Vegas. I remember talking to you while you were in Vegas. And I said, well, you know, you're not interacting with people. And you're like, oh, that's all I'm doing. I'm like, oh, wow, because this thing's getting bad. I know. And I thought for sure you were going to have COVID when you came back.

And I don't know how you didn't, quite frankly. I mean, you must have shook, you know, 10,000 hands. Yeah, it's crazy. 10,000 hands. I'll tell you, when I got here, it hurt to swallow. Oh. And I felt a little feverish.

I was pretty sure I had it. And, I mean, this is how fast things have happened and how slow things have happened. This is weird combination, but it was terrifying back then. You really could fill a book with what you didn't know. Oh, yeah. All the mixed messages. Sure. The washing of the fruit.

No one was touching doorknops. It was like everybody was in the first. filthiest bathroom ever, kicking their way into stalls. Right. You know what I mean? Picking stuff up with your elbows. It was just so bananas. Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. And then there was a whole thing about the mask. Anyway, that was two years ago. Yeah. Thank God we're not there anymore. Now look where we are. Two years later, we changed the format of the podcast.

Here we are doing long form interviews. Yeah. With lots of people. And it's been great. You know, you were right about a lot of things. I was nervous about some things. But I'm so grateful to the audience to stick around. Again, I was trying to thank them earlier when you so rudely interrupted me as I started to wreck the thing you're trying to tease, which is still unclear in my mind.

But, I mean, it's people don't like to change. Yeah. Right. And it doesn't matter if you're messing with the format of a podcast or telling them to sit inside for two weeks. Or telling them to wear a mask. Or telling them not to wear a mask after you told them to wear a mask. We don't like change. And that's what the last two years have been.

It's been a constant daily diet of do this, don't do that. Watch this, don't watch that. In so many different ways. And so maybe it's a stretch to suggest that changing the format of a podcast is in some way analogous to all that. But I think it is. In a world where people are searching for something certain, it's wise to give it to them. but in a world where people get bored with certainty, it's imperative to surprise them from time to time by shaking things up.

And so I've always felt that way, and I've always believed that to be true in entertainment. Wow, it's true in life too. In so many ways, certainty and uncertainty. Remember, we used to talk about this all the time. We need the certainty of knowing the sun is going to rise. We can't live if we don't have the certainty of knowing the sun is going to set. But my God, if it always looks the same when it comes up and goes down,

then we're going to hate sunrises and sunsets. We're going to hate the certainty. We need variety. We need to mix stuff up. Yeah, it's true. You can get used to the same thing over and over again. And it's comforting to a degree. I think it also depends on the individual.

I think some people are more inclined to like certainty. Like somebody maybe at this table. Like someone named Chuck. Yeah. And someone who really likes to mix it up and never wants to do the predictable thing, someone like. Say me. Yeah, Mike. Right.

And you know what? It might be arrogance. It might be hubris. When I figure out a good way to do it, like a speech, right? I didn't have a speaking career 10 years ago. And then I did. And now a couple times. And now we can't shut you up.

And now you can't shut me up. And that went away too. I mean, with... Oh, that's true too. Yes, yes, yes. Think about that. I was out there every month, at least twice a month, in front of an audience anywhere between a thousand and six thousand people. Yeah.

Making sounds, telling stories. Right. All of a sudden, gone. Gone, yeah. You can't do that. But my point was, it's hard to get an act. Not that I have an act, but, you know, it's hard to get an hour of content that you're comfortable with. And as soon as I got it, the first thing I wanted to do.

was change it because it's like, well, I don't want to just do the same thing again. That feels lazy. And you were like, you idiot. It's a new audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They haven't heard your old act. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, but, right? So I know it's a weird thing to be suspicious of the very certainty that gives you the comfort that deep down you want, unless, of course, you get that same comfort from doing the uncertain, unpredictable thing. But you're right. People vary. We're all different. And not to drag it back to the lockdowns, but I think that's what made everybody so crazy. We're all different, but we were all treated exactly the same. Yeah.

This disease. One size fits all. That's right. Yeah. One size fits all, I was going to say never works, but that would be a proclamation. It works for robes, I found, usually, you know, but not shoes. Definitely not shoes. Not shoes.

It's just we acted like everyone was identically vulnerable. And we did it, I think, in a well-intended way. Of course. I totally agree with that. We did it because we wanted to be fair. And we didn't want to profile. We didn't want to single anything out. But I just remember thinking, sorry to free associate.

It's just on my mind, man. Yes, please. Because two years ago sitting here, it was so on my mind. mind. And I think now it hasn't been on my mind, but you've reminded me of how it felt. I mean, sitting here at my kitchen table talking to you like this. It's like just like that. It's two years ago. Yeah. And all that uncertainty and all that angst. And so I'm looking back at it now and I'm thinking it's kind of like after 9-11, we decided we needed to be a lot more careful at the airports. We decided, okay, the shoes are going to come off.

And everybody's going to go through this thing. And there's going to be a heightened level of scrutiny. But we also decided that, to be fair about this, my mother, my 84-year-old mother, would be subjected, more or less to the same level of scrutiny as Abdul Fattah coming over from Syria for the very first time. Okay. Wise? Prudent, smart, or fair? opinions vary, right? But treating a potential terrorist threat, you can talk about stop and frisk, too, right? But how did we get here? Because we don't have a format. This was your idea two years ago.

I've tried so desperately to, you know, ask you questions about it. You're going to get your way, but you're also going to live with the fact that the host of your little podcast is digressive by nature. It's on my mind. Stop and frisk. Yeah. Okay. We can talk about the fundamental unfairness of that. we have and we should because it was a thing. It was also a thing that dramatically impacted crime. By the way, it's come to be known as stop and frisk, but I believe it's stop question and frisk, I think. Right, right. Was it abused? Yeah, I think it probably was. Probably, yeah. Was it unfairly applied? Yeah, I think it probably was. Did it save lots of lives? Yeah, definitely. I think it probably did. Yeah. Now, we get to choose. Fair trade or not a fair

Well, we've chosen. Security for Liberty. That's right. We've chosen. Let's just admit it. We chose the inconvenience of subjecting everyone to the same level of scrutiny at the airport. Wise, smart, stupid, prudent, fair, whatever it is, we chose. That's how we're going to do it. But a virus is different than all those things. And damn it, had we been told three months in, and we clearly knew, this we knew three months in. We knew people going into the hospital. were much, much more at risk if they were morbidly obese. We knew that. We knew that over 80% of the fatalities

and 80% of the hospitalizations were coming from people who were morbidly obese. We knew that any number of comorbidities, you know, and yet everyone was treated the same. What did we learn just a couple of weeks ago from a great guest on here, Justin Hart? Probably the greatest, most horrible misunderstanding through this whole thing was the notion

that the asymptomatic could pass this law. Right, yeah, be afraid of everyone, assume everyone that you come in contact with has the virus. Yes, it's that. But that goes back again to the even bigger point, which is everyone must be treated the same. Yep.

Everyone must be seen as the same. When in fact, this virus was a very discriminating killer. It knew exactly where it wanted to nest. It knew exactly who was, vulnerable. And I'm afraid that we knew it too, but we just couldn't say it. And so we didn't. And so merrily, we roll along. You're right. I don't know why we're talking about this. But I'll bet you the people who are listening, dozens. Literally. Literally dozens of people. I bet you many of them are nodding their heads in the affirmative and saying, yeah. Yep. I experienced that

too. I felt that too. I hope so. If not, you know, there are lots of other podcasts to listen to. kidding. Don't stop listening. Oh my God. I just gave my producer angina. Awesome. Well, I want to ask you a question. But I'm afraid to ask you a question because... I'll limit my response to 30 seconds. Okay. I find that hard to believe. How does it feel to have three shows on three different networks premiering in the same month? Well, it's weird, man. And I think it might be unprecedented. And I know why you're nervous to ask it because it sounds like, I'm going to throw my arm out of socket, pat myself on the back. Yeah, right.

Hey, look at me, everybody. I got a podcast that's really killing it. I got a foundation that's robust. And yeah, I'm in season three of How America Works on Fox Business. I'm in season two of the story behind the story on TBN. And Dirty Jobs has been on the air every week for 20 years. And we're kicking off a new season. On December 11th, Sunday night on the Discovery Channel.

And modesty aside, it's awesome. Well, let me do that for you because let me say that, A, the promo campaign that you came up with, which if you haven't seen it, people, you must go to YouTube, go to Discovery and look for the promos for dirty jobs because Mike wrote a parody of Deck the Halls. and obviously I've told you this multiple times, but it's the best, these are the best promos ever because he knew exactly what he had done in this upcoming season. And so he wrote the lyrics of the parody to match these things. And then the team at Discovery put the exact same things on screen. So the footage matches the lyrics and it is so funny and they add sound effects. And my gosh, I just giggled through the whole.

thing. People should understand that the world of promos is a world unto itself. It's different than advertising. It's different than songwriting. It's different than storytelling. You have to do a lot of different things with a good promo. And most of them aren't good. Most of them just feel like, watch this, date and time, blah, blah, blah, blah, something, something, something. It's hard, you know. And Dirty Jobs has had a great advantage over the years because there's a lot of lot of great footage. And if you have footage, you really, all you have to do is get out of the way. There's some great images from this year's episodes. I mean, unforgettable. Well, that's the thing is as you watch the promo, these images are coming at you when you go, my gosh, they did that,

they did that, they did that. And it's, first of all, it's dirtier than last season. Filthy, filthy season. This could be the best season of dirty jobs ever. have a castor gland in their anus. And one of the ways you determine if you're dealing with a male or a female beaver, and we did a whole

segment on beaver relocation up in Utah. It was very funny. Anyway, you've got to squeeze this funk out of the castor gland. It's basically like sexing a chicken. Except it's a beaver. Yeah. And Chuck,

you know, as you know, if you're going to squeeze the beaver with both hands. You've got to be prepared for what might come out. Dear Lord. And what you do is you take this awful looking yellow custard and you wipe it on like a paper towel and then you sniff it. Oh, come on. If it smells

like motor oil, it's a boy. If it smells like teen spirit, come on. It's a girl. I swear to God. I swear to God. So what do you do with that image? It speaks for itself and when you see the episode, you'll get it. But how do you promote it? How do you promote this, right?

If you spend too much time on that image, then it's too gross and too weird and too specific. Yeah. Right? But if it's just a passing reference in a parody of the song, squeeze and beavers. Squeeze and beavers, okay? It goes by very fast. Now, if the song that makes reference to the aforementioned beaver squeezing happens to be in the public domain, better still, because now it's familiar to everyone.

Yes. And if it happens to be a song, from the public domain, which is a Christmas carol. Oh, yeah. Now, for a show that's debuting in December. In December. Yeah. So now you have what I like to call a number of seemingly disparate, juxtaposed elements that when pushed together, you would think couldn't possibly fit.

But all of a sudden, you got a smart alec host older than he's ever been sitting in a recording studio with a Santa Claus hat on. Yep. Singing to camera. Dirty Jobs is back on TV Every Sunday night new episodes Lots of poop and lots of PPG It's great to be back on the road Right and so forth and so on

So all the images line up perfectly Yes And the instrumental track is so bouncy And it's so festive And it makes you think of chestnuts Roasting by an open fire Until the yellow goop Comes out of the beaver's bottom

And then you realize You know something? That boy ain't right. Motor oil. That's how you know it's a boy. Smells like motor oil. I was talking about me. That boy ain't right.

Oh, that boy ain't right. Shameless plug. Long before she was Peggy Roe, my mom was Peggy Noble, daughter of Carl and Thelma Noble. It was her father, Carl, who inspired me to pitch a show called Dirty Jobs to the Discovery Channel, and later start a foundation that honored the country. kind of work Carl Noble did for a living, trade work, skilled labor.

That foundation is called MicroWorks, and today I'm proud to tell you that we've helped thousands of people get the training they need to begin a career in the skilled trades. In fact, we'd love to help you. You can apply for a work ethic scholarship right now at microwerks.org. We've set aside $10 million for this year's applicants, thanks to a number of very effective fundraisers, including the one with my grandfather's name on the label. I refer, of course, to Noble Tennessee whiskey, K-N-O-B-E-L, which is now available in a variety of delicious mash bills, all of which you can peruse at Noble Spirits.com.

In fact, if you spend $100 and use code Carl, C-A-R-L, you'll get one tube of orange-bitter-infused sugar cubes for free. That's code Carl with a C to get nine sugar cubes, ingeniously engineered to make a nine perfect old fashions every time. It's my favorite way to support microworks and my favorite whiskey to sip responsibly after a long day of interviewing people on this podcast. Pick up a bottle at noblespirits.com.

K-N-O-B-E-L-Spirits.com. Soon may the noble men come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waitin is done we'll take a drink and go. Do you know how weird it is? So I'm 60 years old, right? And watching this 60-year-old version of me doing this version of things I was doing on this same show 20 years ago.

It's not just weird. I mean, it really is a privilege. I really am so grateful that Discovery is cool pushing this thing out there because it gives me a chance. It gives me a chance to talk to you about it, for starters, at Thanksgiving. But it gives me a chance to talk about microworks. And it gives me a chance to take all that goofy silliness in there and morph it right into. a scholarship program. And so does how America works.

And so does the story behind the story. So my answer to your earlier question was, it's a privilege to be able to work on one show at any time in your life that lines up in some way with something that's like genuine and authentic about the person you think you are, like that kind of congruency. I don't have to play a character. I don't have to live with like, you know, I was in business, as you know, with Bill Shatner for a couple years. And, you know, he's a terrific actor.

And he's a... Just don't tell him how to do it. Don't tell me how to do it. It sickens me. It sickens me. When you become Captain Kirk, when you become a character, you know, like our friend Rico. You know, RICO's been at this as long as we have, he's been. in sitcoms for 20 years, maybe more, but always as a character.

Yeah. And so, you know, for me, the great fortune, the great privilege, and the thing I was petrified of losing during the lockdowns, was the ability to work in my chosen field in a way that didn't require me to really play anybody other than myself. I didn't fully appreciate that for a long, long time. Well, let me tell you, I mean, you're the best person to play. And let me just say that not everybody can do that, Mike. That's something that a lot of actors,

I think Rico is like this to a degree where he gets a little nervous just chatting and being himself like when he was on the podcast, just a little bit. I don't know if he'd admit to it, but he doesn't listen to this podcast, so it's fine. But I'm saying to you that people come up to me all the time and say, well, what is Mike like? I imagine he's just like I see him on TV. and that is the truth you are, except you curse a little bit more than you do on TV. People know me for being covered often in other people's crap. Right?

And so what can you assume about a man who basically crawls through sewers for a living or squeezes the anus of a beaver to get the yellow custard out so he can sniff it? Why? And then make some scientific determination. It's a real part of who I am, and it's not a thing that I have to... I mean, don't misunderstand, friends. I don't do this in real life, okay?

I mean, if there's not a camera pointed at me, I'm probably... You're not squeezing beavers? Probably not. At least not in the literal sense. Thank you. And so all that stuff is real and actual and unscripted.

It's not about the beaver or the beaver's anus. It's about the fact that when you're engaged in an activity that's so ridiculous on its face and yet such a critical part of an actual job, you get to say whatever. you want. You get to react however you want. That's the beauty of my great good fortune.

Nobody tells me what kind of face to make or what to say when you sniff that awful yellow custard that comes out of the caster gland through the beaver's anus. No one. How many times are you going to describe this in great detail?

Six? Well, we're up to four already. Well, we got another two to come. We got another 20 minutes. Let me see if I could get something else in here before you do that, your dad just celebrated his 90th birthday. Unbelievable. And two years earlier, as we were sitting here, having a version of this conversation, he had just celebrated his 88th, and I couldn't be with him.

Right. It was a Zoom birthday. And my parents, two days prior to that, celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary. Right, and you couldn't be there for that. And this year, there's 62nd. Well, this year I was there. And my brothers were there. Yeah.

And we all descended upon them over at their senior living community. And, oh, my God, it was so much fun. It was great to see my brothers again, who I don't see enough. Yeah, the old man is 90 years old. You know, his hearing isn't what it once was, but he's engaged. He still gets his steps in. He's going to the wood shop class. He made a coffee table.

He made a sconce. He makes an urn. He makes a vase. He's shooting pool every day. He's in a book club. He's engaged. And so we celebrated his 90th birthday very modestly just with a little dinner. And it was great. I'll tell you what I learned. Every year I try and write something for the occasion. It usually takes the form of some kind of poem. And this year I learned that nothing fricking rhymes with 90. But you know, you use that to your advantage quite nicely. Oh, thank you.

And if you haven't seen this, there is a video of you reading this poem to your dad on his 90th birthday on Facebook. And it's worth it because the poem is great. You can't recite it from memory, can you? No. I mean, I wrote it pretty quickly in the sort of like a Dr. Seuss meets basically what I would do for you if something rhymed. If something. Right, right. But because nothing does.

So like, you know, if you were turning 91, my job would be a lot more fun. Already would this poem be done, but nothing rhymes. With 90, right. And so forth and so on. It goes all the way up to 100. Anyway, yeah, I was kind of proud of that, really. As you should be, let me ask you this. How proud are you of the singing ads that we do on this podcast?

I am not proud of those. This is a topic that we should absolutely spend a couple of minutes on. Because what I am is titillated to sit down and write a jingle for a sponsor who didn't ask me to write a jingle. And then record the parts and then send them to you and have you sing one or two of the parts. Right. And then have Ross mix them together. Yeah. And just unsolicited, start throwing them out there.

Yeah. Without permission. No asking. Just doing it. No permission. Hope you like it. Hope you like it. But look, it goes back to the certainty uncertainty.

Right? Eddie Nova. Look, the podcast world of advertising is, I think Hunter Thompson described it pretty well. He was asked about the TV industry, and he called it a long plastic hallway. A long plastic hallway where pimps and thieves, oh God, now I want to look it up. This is really captivating. Wait, wait, wait, wait. A cruel money trench, a long plastic hallway.

where good men die like dogs and pimps and thieves run free. I liked what Johnny Carson said about TV, said it's the only industry where they eat their young. So point being, hey, we love our advertisers, right? I mean, we don't have a podcast without them. In fact, we're going to hear from one shortly. But the way advertising works in podcasting, it's just so awful. It's just, you know, it's just so awful.

The way people hand you a piece of paper and say, read this. I don't want to do that. I want to talk about people who make things in this country. I want to talk about goods and services that I actually enjoy. I've used zip recruiter. ZipRecruiter's helped my life. Sure. You know, so why shouldn't I write a jingle for them? But to answer your question, to spend actual time, time that I don't really have, frankly, trying to figure out, hold on, let me shut this one. Yeah, where is it? I know, I got a helicopter around. Is that a helicopter? No, it's a sea-form. Seems like a plane, yeah. Flying by me. to take that unsolicited time and to create something that you and I can work on,

it's a part of being in on the joke. Because these things are all in four-part harmony, and they all harken back to a simpler time when you and I were in high school, singing in a barbershop quartet. Is it good? I don't know. That's not for me to say. Do people like it?

Some people really, really love it. We get, like we also have the songs to ask for reviews. There'll be one at the end of this episode. But a lot of people comment when they write a review. about the singing, about the ads. Like best commercials ever, the content's okay. You know, that kind of thing. But look, that's important.

It just goes back to the relationship with an advertiser. You can't hold your nose and just take the money and expect your listener to, I mean, they might be okay with it, but they certainly won't respect it. And most of them will fast forward through the commercials. Yeah, but a lot of people don't fast forward through the commercials on this podcast. Well, that's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to do. Because they know there's going to be a song at the end.

But to answer your question, it's not just to satisfy the advertiser. It's not just to suck up. It's all about you. It's about me. That's right. I am trying to amuse myself. That's right. Because I still believe that when a viewer or a listener sees you having a good time or senses

that you're in on the joke and just trying to make the best of whatever hand you got, whether you're squeezing this thick yellow custard out of a castor gland in a beaver's anus. Okay. Or simply trying to find a way to make NetSuite or butcher box or zip recruiter or perk or any of the other fine sponsors. Field of Greens. They're back for 2023, right. Nutrition like you never seen when you swallow Field of Greens. So one day, I realized.

Field of Greens as an advertiser. Moments later, that ridiculous melody pops into my head. I go down and I record it. Then I sing a couple of parts against it until it doesn't suck as much as it otherwise might. And then I send it to Chuck and I say, pick a part, sing it. He sings it. Then we send it to Ross. He mixes it. And then poof, it's out there. Yeah. So I just want to say one thing about this process as well that's really, really funny because I'm in the unenviable position of calling you all the time and saying, hey, I need this. I need that. And I know I'm Captain Bringdown.

You have become annoying. I'm really annoying. It bothers you. And I'll say, hey, man, I need the preamble to episode 268. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen to this. What do you think? And then you'll play me something.

And I'm like, that's good, man. That's good. That's not the thing I need right now. Yeah, yeah, the preamble we need now. But definitely go back to that. You're like, yeah, yeah, I will. And I know, even as I'm hanging up, that as soon as we hang up, you were not going to do the preamble.

No. You're going to go back and you're going to record all of those parts and you're going to tweak it and you're going to make it sound even better than it before. But you're going to get the preamble. That's true. You're always going to get what you need. Yes. But you might not get it when you want it or when you expect it. Back to certainty and uncertainty, expectations, variety, hopes, and dreams.

All these things, right? Yes. As long as you ultimately deliver, in my view, then you've got to give your host, your actor, who's ever responsible for creating a thing. you got to give them enough rope to hang themselves. And sadly, sometimes they will. But other times, you know, maybe they'll build a nice rope bridge. You know, maybe they'll do something unexpected. And look, I think this is true of every interesting person that I know, no matter their career.

I don't care whether they're welders or rodbusters or beaver sexers. Have I told you about the business of getting the yellow custard out of a beaver's bottom? I'll circle back later. Okay, great. It doesn't matter what you're getting paid to do. If you can find a way to amuse yourself while you're doing it, then you're going to be okay. And this podcast is strange to me. I'm still figuring out how big a rock it could be one day.

I'm hopeful that it could continue to grow. But I also know that I'll grow to hate it if I don't do things to shake it up. I know that. And this probably is going to, I don't know if I can tolerate the tease much longer. I think we might have to talk about that thing that you teased earlier. We will talk about that, but let me just ask you this. And this is a difficult question, but I wonder, I know a lot of people are curious about this. And who's your favorite guest?

Do you mind if I get a LaCroix while we do this? No, help yourself. Mike is walking over to his refrigerator and coming back with a lecois. A pamelmoose. Pamelmoose, which I believe means grapefruit in French. In the words of Steve Martin, those French have a different word for everything. If you go to Paris, let me give you a little hint. Oof, means egg.

You don't remember it? It's like those French. My favorite line was the idea that you think if you talk with a French accent. Oh. So I got into the cab, and I looked at the cabby in Paris, and I said very clearly, I would like to go this hotel.

And he looked at me like I had two heads. The sad part, Mike, is that someone we both know, whose initials are RR does that for real. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I've been in a Mexican restaurant before. That's really.

And as you know, he's as white as the day is long. But anyway, so do you have a favorite guest, Mike? Oh, come on. I mean, if I don't say my mother, I'm going to be pilloried. My mom, I mean, look, if you listen to the last episode, you will have heard what happened, this strange, wondrous, and horrifying thing. You know, I've been posting my mom's book on the platform here, two chapters at a time for the last seven weeks now.

And last week, I think the highest rated, more people listened to those two chapters in one week than have listened to any other episode of this podcast. In one week. In one week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, maybe you don't care. I hope you don't because I'm not sure what it says about. What do you say to a guy whose highest rated episode on his own podcast is an episode that he's not in? you have to start to wonder.

Yes. I've been meaning to talk to you about this, Mike, and it's now going to be the way I heard it with Peggy Row. So my mom is clearly out of control. She's written three bestselling books. Thank you, everyone, for supporting her. She'll be 85 in January. In her most recent book,

we've sort of hijacked your feed. You didn't ask me to start sending you for free, my mom's book two chapters at a time. But I did it because I thought people, by and large, would like it. And they do. And I think people, by and large, agree that she's one of the more entertaining guests that recur on this podcast. Yep. And she is.

And so now the numbers prove it. Nearly half a million people listen to chapters 13 and 14 in one week. I mean, my God, it's great. The federal government is not going to close America's skills gap. They have an important role to play for sure, but if we're serious about reinvigorating the skilled trades on a national level, we need more organizations like Skills USA making a real difference on a local level. These guys have been around since 1965, and today they are relevant like never before with hundreds of chapters in schools all over the country and hundreds of thousands of students participating and competing every year. nobody's doing more to train the next generation of skilled workers than Skills USA. And I'm encouraging you to at least consider being a part of this movement.

Skills USA advisors and volunteers aren't just teaching trades. They're launching careers and strengthening the backbone of our country by mentoring the next generation of industry leaders. In high school, you could be among the people who are making this movement explode. Join the skilled trades movement, support career and technical education programs through Skills USA. There's no better way to do it. You can volunteer at a local chapter. You can start a chapter in your own town. Or you can just go to their website and see the impact for yourself and see too how easy it is to get involved.

Thousands of kids are being introduced to the trades in a way that's absolutely positively moving the needle. The goal is a million members by 2030. I think it's doable. I'm doing what I can to help. Learn more at skillsusa.org slash mic. That's skillsusa.org slash mic. I'm talking skills, U.S. Skills, U.S.S. Skills, U.S.S.S. U.S.S.S.S. USA.

Can I say this now? Can I tell people part of what I'm thinking about doing with the podcast? Yes, yes, yes. Part of what I would like to do is bring her back even more regularly in her own segment. I used to do this on Facebook where once a week or maybe twice a month, we just sit down and have a cup of coffee and talk. And people really seem to enjoy that. Well, I want to do that, but I also want to share more of her writing with you guys because she's at this retirement community now. And she has been writing a blog from the community about the goings on there.

And it's really funny. You know, when I went back to celebrate my dad's 90th, I've been talking to some of the guys who run the Erickson Senior Living Facility. And they love my mom. They love her. And I said, look, what if she comes on from time to time? And they're like, well, we would love that too. And I'm like, what if you were a sponsor of the episodes?

And they're like, well, we'd be open to that. And now the next thing you know, I'm going to be writing a song for these guys. I did not expect that this is what you were going to talk about. to talk about. Look, it's part of it. So what's going to happen is... In 2023? In 2023.

What is going to happen in 20203, Mike? I don't know. But it involves a beaver. And here's why I want you to do it. Dang. You know, it doesn't matter how hard you squeeze the beaver, friends. You can't always be sure of what's going to come out of it. Motor oil, though.

How does motor oil? Something that smells like motor oil. Yeah. How on earth does something inside a beaver smell like motor oil? I don't know why I'm even asking you this question. Well, obviously, because we're talking about my mother. Oh, God. Too much?

Yeah. Yeah. I may need a minute. Here's what I want to tell you about 2023. Yeah. I don't have a crystal ball any more than I did two years ago. And I don't really know what's going to happen. Other than we're going to stick with what we got.

We're going to keep doing at least one episode a month, wherein I bring on people who I think you should know. Authors, documentarians, friends, dirty jobbers, bloody do-gooders, just people with a unique take on a thing that I want to share. But as we continue to do that... Sorry, you said once a month.

Did I? I believe you meant once a week. I was just seen if you were listening. I was. Yes, once a week. To the extent that I'm capable of committing to anything, I'm committing to do one of these a week for the next year. Right. I think we can do that even with the story behind the story and how America works and dirty jobs in production.

Even with the foundation exploding. We have to talk about that, but that's going to be a very, very, very big part of what goes on in 2023. Even with noble Tennessee whiskey, finding its way onto shelves across the country, that's going to be a very, very big push. Even with all of that stuff, swirling around like the early planets in a gaseous cosmos trying to coalesce around a fickle sun, even with all of that, I do want to expand this a little bit. I want to go back and start writing more of the stories that kick this whole thing off, short mysteries for the curious mind with a short attention span. I want to start doing more of those original stories. I know people miss them. As I've said before, I'm sorry.

They're hard to write. They take time. They take a lot of time, take a lot out of you. But as Mike says, I want to start doing this. I'm going to give you a little spoiler alert. Mike's already written a few of them. So, yes, I want to start throwing those out in conjunction with the weekly... In addition to this.

In addition to, an augmentation, if you will, not a substitution. Some might look at it as a box of chocolates because you'd never know what you're going to get. Them's was my magic shows. So, yes, and this really is probably a good place to start thinking about how to bring the plane down. Because it goes back to what we're talking about earlier. I think it's better if we land the plane than bring it down. That just seems very extreme. There are so many ways to bring a plane down.

I was thinking the one that involved landing gear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the wheels is best, I find. I would like, and I don't know if it's possible because I know people resist change, and I don't know of another podcast that does this, but I would like for the way I heard it, to feel like a box of chocolates.

I would like to have a steady diet of long-form conversations, sort of like the one we're having right now, only with an actual guest. Hey. No offense. I would like to start reintroducing the story, that launched the whole thing. Since they're also informing the TV show called the story behind the story,

which you can see right now every Wednesday and Saturday night on TBN. But I also want to bring my mom in to the extent that she's interested, to have these check-ins with her. And with your permission, I would like to just include these into the feed to which you've subscribed. And I'm not sure you're going to love it. I think you will. You might hate it. You might resent it.

I hope you don't. But I'm mindful of the possibility because people don't like change. I also know that you want change. You might not know it. You might not realize it yet. But I don't want you to be bored. I don't want to lose you because I've become predictable. I also don't want to piss you off because I seem precipitous.

But if I have my way, maybe this year, maybe next year, I don't know when it will happen, but I would love for this podcast space, this little slice of real estate we occupy in this mythical, wondrous place called Podcastlandia. I would like for it to more resemble the Facebook page, where some days you get a long story and some days you get a short one, and some days you get a funny meme, and some days I invite you to try some whiskey and different things at different times. That, I think, would be a fun place to build. But you build the wall one brick at a time. And so we'll see about 23. But if I have my druthers, it'll be a mix of the old stories, some more chats with mom. And maybe even this other thing we call occasionally.

If you've been with us for a while, you've heard these happen before, where I'll maybe find a piece of literature that I think is super cool and marry it to an occasion. like the tell-tell heart for Halloween or some great piece of Christmas writing that deserves to be reintroduced into the vernacular, the lexicon. The zeitgeist. The zeitgeist, yes, the cultural zeitgeist.

Or maybe some of these, even, you know, every day is some sort of national day. It's ridiculous. National donut day is coming up. Maybe I'll find ode to a donut and read it for you and then share some thoughts on that particular pastry. I don't know. I'm just kind of sharing the creative process with you along the way.

Maybe there'll be more singing. Maybe there won't, Chuck. You read me something the other day from some guy that I think it was a five-star review. But I think it was entitled, Please, for the love of God, stop singing. So I don't know. I know that I can't do anything ever that will please everyone. And I know that no matter what I do, I'm going to disappoint somebody. but I figure we'll shoot with a shotgun,

we'll hit more, and hopefully people will come along for the ride. Yes, and so that's what this podcast is going to look like moving forward. Maybe. A box of chocolates, maybe. Maybe. If it all depends on how Mike feels, whether or not he feels like he is going to entertain himself.

It comes down to this, friends. How hard are you willing to squeeze the beaver? It's really that simple. That's two over your allotted five. I'm telling you, when you see the segment, you'll understand. As we go through life, we must all pause from time to time to squeeze the beaver. The question is, how hard and for how long? And what will you do with the contents that come out of the beaver as a result of all the squeezing?

Hashtag too soon. That's the measure of a man or a woman. I don't want to put sides on this. You know, I was working with women in that segment. And I saw women squeezing the beaver. Oh, dear. And look, and these women, they get attached to their own beavers. Oh, come on what I mean?

They save them because they wander out on the golf courses, you know, and they're building dams and they're wreaking all kinds of habit. Wait a minute. They get beavers on golf courses? Beavours are running amok. A lot of beavers on golf courses? They come down from the hills. Uh-huh.

They build their dams near the city. and they create all sorts of problems. Another damn problem. For the interest, right. So these people, look, we've waged a holy war on beavers over the centuries. You know, nearly hunted them to extinction to make top hats out of them in Europe and over here. And today, you want to see something horrifying. You Google gopher traps and beaver traps.

And you'll see like medieval devices, brutal devices designed to, dispatch these creatures with extreme prejudice. No, people don't Google the beaver traps. I'm just saying. Google the dirty jobs promo. That's fun. That's lighthearted. But I'm bringing it back, okay?

If you're familiar with the Holy War that H. Sapiens have waged on, gosh, I wish I knew the Latin for beaver. Let's just call them be Everest. Then you would really, really appreciate this. episode because... Furry flat tailus. That's so freaking stupid. You'll really appreciate this episode

because people of great cheer and love for all creatures great and small have come together and decided we don't have to murder the beaver. We simply have to relocate them. And so we go out into the wilds in, God, I forgot what town I was in, somewhere in Utah, up there toward the mountains.

And we catch the beavers. We don't kill them. We just catch them. And then we take them back to the facility. We do some tests. We put a pit tag in their tail. We sex them. Just kind of make sure they're not injured. And if they are, we fix them up. And then we relocate them high up into the mountains. And we build a dam for them to create a new environment for them. But my point was, in the midst of all of this, you got to squeeze the beaver. You know, that's what makes an otherwise interesting segment a great dirty job. You'll see. There's lots of beaver squeezing coming up, my friends. Okay. Lots of it. All right. I think we've got the picture, Mike. Thanks so much for that. Thanks for letting us know what this podcast may or may not look like in the coming year, depending. Just want to say, if you, dear listener, if you have an idea of what sort of variety of chocolate you'd like to see in this box, drop us a line at info at microworks.

Yeah, do it. Info at microworks.com and let us know. Yeah. Or a guest that you would love to see featured. or a topic. In fact, if you've got ideas, if you're fans of the earlier stories, you know, part of the reason I stopped writing them was because I just was tapped out. Well ran dry for a while.

Look, all my ideas, especially the good ones over the years, have always come from listeners and viewers. It's always been the case with dirty jobs coming back December 11th and with the story behind the story now currently airing on TBN, Wednesdays and Saturday nights,

and how America works, which you can see on the Fox Business Channel. Unbelievable. Monday nights at 8. Those shows are all programmed by you guys, and to a certain extent. So is this podcast. So I hope you had a great Thanksgiving, found something to be thankful for. I'm thankful for you.

And to all the beavers out there, metaphorical and literal. Wow. Just waiting to be squeezed. Oh, dear. Gosh, if only we had a song to play. Yes, if only we had a song to play, we are going to play a song. Yes, you know. Let's do that.

We'll talk to you next week. If you dig the punch. that we do. Won't you leave a quick five-star review? I really hate to ask much more of you. But please subscribe. Oh, please subscribe. Oh, please subscribe. Oh, we need of five little lousy stars. Tell us what you like and who you are. Then share us with your friends down at the bar. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. And then subscribe. and then subscribe and then subscribe and then subscribe and then subscribe

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