The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 346: Coach Bill Courtney—Rolling Up to the Red Carpet in a Purple Crown Vic

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

The businessman and football coach talks about his experience growing up fatherless, how it felt to star in the Academy Award-winning documentary Undefeated, in which he used his tough-love style of coaching to help an underprivileged Memphis high school's football team make it to the playoffs, and his mission to recruit an Army of Normal Folks to make this world a better place.  

Hello, friends, it's the way I heard it. Episode number 346, we call this one rolling up to the red carpet in a purple ground vick. That's rolling up to the red carpet in a purple crown vick. I like the symmetry, Chuck. You don't often hear red and purple used in the same sentence. You know, I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out, but that is true. And this is an actual statement that our guest, Coach Bill Courtney, actually said, this was the red carpet. in Austin or was it at the Academy Awards?

He was going to Austin to see, I think, the premiere of the documentary in which he stars, a film called Undefeated that he didn't, in his words, really realize he was in, at least not to the extent that he is. Bill Courtney got kind of famous a few years back,

featured in a documentary called Undefeated, won an Academy Award. It is a great film. I can recommend without reservations. that you give it a look. Whether you like documentaries or not, this is such a great story of a team in Memphis, a high school football team called the Tigers,

who was like four in 96 over a 10-year period. Right. And then Bill Courtney got a hold of them and did that magic thing that certain coaches can do and transform them into a winning team and change some lives. And you know what, man, You know me. I'm not a particularly earnest fellow, and this is a very earnest documentary.

But if you don't cry at this thing, man, you know, you're made of stone. Well, you know, like I told you before, when I watched the thing with Rico and who cries at card tricks. And every time I heard him, you know, bubbling up with emotion, I said, is that your card? And we were both just crying like little girls at the end. And it's a great movie. And he's a really, really interesting cat. He turned boy. poison to men in this film. Very much, who does he remind us of? Well, it's Fred King, you know. Yeah. Our high school mentor, he's just one of those guys. He's got it. You know, he's very inspirational. He's very matter of fact. He's very funny. And he's got that same kind of late onset ADD that

afflicts certain men and women who just can't help but keep a lot of plates spinning. You know, while he was coaching this team and making this documentary, he was building a lumber business. In fact, I interview him at his office in his lumber yard. So if you hear some beep, beep, beep, you know, it's just trees coming in. It's just forklifts backing up all over and over and over again. Yeah, there's a lot of that. You can learn a lot from a coach, especially Bill Courtney. So we talk about his business. We talk about this great movie. We talk about the impact he had on these kids who, by the way, are coming from one of the worst, I don't say worst, but let's just say the most troubled zip code in the country. This is the north

side of Memphis. It's tough. It's very, very, very tough. And he's a magician. You know, he's a miracle worker. And he's just a guy that I really think you should know. He's written a great book called Against the Grain. Again, the movie is called Undefeated. And he's got a podcast called An Army of normal folks that I was a guest on about two months ago. That's how I met the guy. And I'm pleased to call him a friend, and I'm excited to introduce him to you right now. One quick shout out before we go. This podcast happily has many listeners. One is a tradesman who works as a tech up at Hyundai in Elgin, Illinois. He's not working at the moment because he's had a hell of a setback, lost the use of his hands and his sight, but he listens religiously to the way I heard it and his birthday's tomorrow.

So we haven't done this before, but why not, Chuck? It's my podcast, right? I can do whatever I want. You are the decider. Ryan Krause, episode number 346, rolling up to the red carpet and a purple Crown Vic. This one's dedicated to you, my friend. Thank you for listening. Shameless plug. Long before she was Peggy Roe, my mom was Peggy Noble, daughter of Carl and Thelma Noble. It was her father, Carl, who inspired me to pitch a show called Dirty Jobs to the Discovery Channel and later start a foundation that honored the kind of work Carl Noble did for a living. Trade work, skilled labor. That foundation is called MicroWorks, and today I'm proud to tell you that we've helped thousands of people get the training they need

to begin a career in the skilled trades. In fact, we'd love to help you. You can apply for a work ethics scholarship right now at microwworks.org. We've set aside $10 million for this year's applicants, thanks to a number of very effective fundraisers, including the one with my grandfather's name on the label. I refer, of course, to Noble Tennessee whiskey, K-N-O-B-E-L, which is now available in a variety of delicious mash bills, all of which you can peruse at noblespirates.com. In fact, if you spend 100 bucks and use code Carl, C-A-R-L, you'll get one tube of orange, bitter-infused sugar cubes for free. That's code Carl with a C to get nine sugar cubes, ingeniously engineered to make nine perfect old fashions every time.

It's my favorite way to support microworks and my favorite whiskey to sip responsibly after a long day of interviewing people on this podcast. Pick up a bottle at noblespirits.com. K-N-O-B-E-L-Spirits.com. Soon may the noble men come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. Apparently showing up on time is a dirty job. Oh, man.

I didn't hear about whatever he said. I deserve it. Seriously, Bill, if you were coaching my team and I was two minutes late as I am, what would the consequences be for yours truly? Well, Mike, it would be the circus. What's the circus? Well, you've seen circuses. I have.

They're full of clowns. Yes, yes they are. And what clowns do is lots of somersaults and cartwheels and they roll on their belly and they jump over the top of each other. And if you can't show up on time, you're a clown. And if you're a clown, you go to circus. And we just have a little circus after practice. It's really fun. Yes, oftentimes we join hands and just hopscot circles around the goalposts.

while humming, da da da da da da da da da da da while the rest of the team stands around and applauds because they're enjoying the circus. And then when you decide you don't want to be a clown, you don't have to go to circus anymore.

So you basically turn tardiness into entertainment for the benefit of all the entertainment. Your own personal Yeah. I mean, it's a payoff

for the time I put into it. Absolutely. I don't know if anybody else is enjoying it, but I sure sell it. Well, you know, we talk a lot on this podcast, you know, unlike the high-minded, socially conscious themes that inform your life in your podcast. We often chat on our little slice of podcast, Landia, about the importance of amusing yourself, whether you're the coach of a team, a comedian who's essentially paid to amuse thousands. You know, the first thing you have to do is put your own mask on, right? Otherwise, what good are you? What use are you to anybody?

I am a fat, red-headed, not particularly attractive human being, and I have had to spend a lot of time in my life with self-amusing, self-gratification, all of it. And I understand that. I identify with it completely. Well, we draw the line at self-abuse, Coach, so we're not going to go there. I hope we're not live right now. we're just pre-b-Sing, right? No, no, this is it, man.

This is probably going to get cut into the actual promo. This is what we're going to lead with on the Twitters and on the Snapchats. This is what we're going to roll out with. This guy right here is having a heart attack right now. Who's that guy? Is that your producer? That's my Chuck. Oh, my God.

You got a Chuck, too? What do you call him? This is an Alex, but it's a Chuck. Yesterday, Mike, I did an hour and 50 minutes of gripping the best interview I've ever done. And remember, I'm a football coach and a lumberman. I don't, literally, I think the best interview I've ever done. I was patient. I allowed all of her comments to come through.

And we were dealing with a really deep subject included in autism and suicide and bullying and a very, very, very, deep material. And I teared up. My guest cried. We had a guest watching who at the end of it was, he looked like he'd just seen Apocalypse Now in 3D. And at the end of it, I took my headphones off.

And the first thing Alex said was, that was okay. Managing expectations. I was like, what? What do you need? You did fine. No, see, Chuck's version of that would be something along the lines of, okay, I'm going to go ahead and hit record now.

Nice rehearsal. Yeah. Yeah, good job. Great rehearsal. You nailed it. Yeah. Well, look, then, let's start there because obviously you're a man of many hats. I want to talk about your entrepreneurial spirit.

I want to talk about your company. I want to talk about capitalism and giving back. Obviously, we're going to chat about football. and character and discipline and all of that stuff. But this business of hosting a podcast, especially the one that you're doing, an army of normal people, are you finding your way into this weird set of muscles, this hosty thing, this interviewing thing? I mean, in spite of Alex's conspicuous lack of positive affirmation, feedback, and encouragement, How does it feel to wear this completely different hat for you?

It's odd. I love people, genuinely, and I love stories, and I love good people making their own stories. And I'm genuinely excited to talk to folks, especially these folks. So I think podcasts are best produced when they're not produced. I think the best podcast is a chat between two folks having a cup of coffee, a glass wine, beer, whatever, and are very conversational in nature. And I think the audience enjoys podcasts more that they feel like they're sitting at the table listening in on the chat. As such, yeah, as such, I don't prepare a lot of, you know, I don't have a lot of pre. I do a little research, but I don't have a lot of, I don't have any prescripted questions.

I want to have a real conversation. and I let the discovery and the reveal of the conversation itself and the answers to questions, lead me to the next question. The problem is, sometimes I'm so excited about it. I will jump into the next question before getting the whole story of the first question. And I've had to train myself to shut up and to listen and to absorb 100% of what my guest is trying to tell me before I then go on to the next thing. So I've had to literally temper my excitement over the whole thing.

The other thing that I've muscle memory that I'm having to remember is oftentimes my guest, they're not used to being on a camera or whatever. And so, you know, there's sometimes you have to work on getting to the story that you want and you have to ask the right kind of open-ended questions to let them be. in their mind into the space that you want to go. And that's a little bit of a learned discipline. What I think I've come naturally at is I love to talk to people. Uh-oh.

I beg you for Zoom. Did he have a weak signal? No, and he was 99% uploaded. No clue would happen there. Stand by. I wonder if I should just shut this down and we'll start again. Here he is. Okay, he's back.

Hello. Blame it on Chuck. Believe me. He already did, yeah. That's a production thing. That's exactly what it is. I mean, we were going to call the podcast, What the Chuck, you know, at the beginning,

because that was typically the question. Oh, my God. I was just about to say it. What the, Chuck? Are we picking up where we were? Here's what I've learned about this whole ridiculous thing. You know, tell the listener the truth all of the time, right? If you're frustrated with your producer,

Share it. If you're frustrated with the technology, our listeners are smart. They've probably already figured out that we just got disconnected as we were talking about the challenges of podcasting. So it's kind of perfect. You know, it'll probably happen again. But you were in the middle of a pretty good point. And I'm going to let you finish if you can remember it. Which is basically I genuinely like, I like learning. I like people's stories. I like the human condition at the risk of, you know, not being condescending, but the risk of putting myself in a space that I am not, you and I are kind of kindred spirits. You like people.

You can tell when you hang out on your shows, and you genuinely like the average dude and the people. And when you're on my podcast, I learned a lot about, you know, you're pretty average Joe, too. and I think people are interesting and I like sharing with people. And so that part of it comes naturally to me. I'm a football coach and a lumberman. I never took a debate class. I never took an acting class.

Although I was Borgard Jackson Pickett Burnside in the school play Maine once, but that's a whole other story. But that's pretty much it. And I guess what I'm saying is so what comes naturally to me is I generally like having the conversations. Doing it well or doing it professionally is, an evolving discipline for me. I only ask, Bill, because I think, you know, coaching a team, especially a high school team, but I would imagine any team as a coach, you need to go in with a plan. You also need to improvise, obviously. That's such a unique role for a man or a woman to

assume. And you need to be, I would think, way more proactive. Your point about hosting a podcast is that, you know, you don't want to ask a question before the other person has finished their thought because the odds are pretty good that the last thing the other person says is going to inform the question you should really be asking, which is interesting to me because if you have a plan, you can't possibly do that. So as a coach whose life is informed by a plan, every play is a plan, versus having a curious conversation where, look, here are my notes, here are the questions I've put together for you. Oh, Mike, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the preparation for me.

That makes me feel wonderful. Listen, same in business, right? I think the plan is in the preparation. And you prepare for any number of occurrences. And if you plan well, you have an answer for any challenge presented in a football game, in a business setting, whatever. But there will be a whole host of things that you've practiced and planned for that the game won't present the opportunity to use. So you go into a game with a whole lot more preparation than what you actually use throughout the course of a game. because the opportunities didn't present themselves for those plans to be instituted, rather other plans to instituted.

So same in business. So, you know, I think with a podcast, you have a 30,000-foot view of the story you want to tell and the guests you want to explore. And some you get to and some you don't based on where the guest takes you. But you allow the guests to take you there because, like you said, what they have to say is all. ultimately going to be what's the most interesting question to come next. And I've had to learn that. And I'm getting better at it. Alex says, it's okay.

Yeah, well, he obviously grades on a curve. I really enjoyed our conversation. As did I. I get invited on a lot of podcasts, and I pass on most of them, just really for no other reason than schedule. But mostly, I'm uncomfortable. I'm not uncomfortable in the celebrity world, but I really don't like it much.

And so when I saw that you, and I knew of you, I hadn't seen your film yet. I have now because I did do some prep. And I picked up against the grain, which I thought was great. And I watched you give some talks in front of some yellow curtain at some look like a rotary club or something like that. So, you know, that was St. Jude, Mike. Oh, was it? Not the Rotary Club. Oh, sorry.

The gold yellow curtain thing that's on YouTube. I know that speech. That was five, six years ago. But that was a St. Jude actually, yeah. Which, of course, is one of the giant points of light, not just in the country, but in Memphis, where you are and where I was, I think, when you guys reached out a couple of months ago, which ultimately brought us together. But back to the prep thing. I want to talk really generally about not greatness, which was the theme that we had last time, but just about that weird ambiguity between a good plan. being, like a perfect plan being the enemy of a good plan, and how all that informed your journey

as a coach and an entrepreneur. And take it wherever you want, because it's just the one thing I really don't have any experience. I'm a poor planner, but I do agree with my pals in the army who always talked about the five peas, which was prior planning, prevents poor performance. I just don't really know where the line is. I will tell you where a lot of it begins and ends with me. I believe players win games and coaches win players. I believe a coach has never scored a touchdown or thrown a pass. I think an Ohio State coach one time made a tackle,

but that was not what he was supposed to be doing when he came off the sideline on a kickoff return. But other than that, one occurrence, I've never seen a coach make a tackle. And the point is players win games. Talent wins games. What coach's job is to do is to win the players, is to win their belief in the scheme, win their hearts and minds, when their belief in you, win their belief in the core fundamentals and values and tenants that you want to them employ in their lives to be the best teammates they can,

but also to be the best humans they can after the days of playing football are over. I think you win the players and then players win games. And because players win games, you can be the most celebrated X's and O's tactician on the face of the planet. And at the end of every season,

have a very average record despite your knowledge of how all the things work on the offensive side of the field, the defense-fied field and the special teams. But football coaching is not chess. A pawn cannot change its mind when you move it from E-40-5. When you move it from E-40-5, it's going E-40-E-5, and that's the end of it. And it's now your opponents turn to react.

In sports, you're playing a chess game where your pieces may not do what they're supposed to do. They also may overperform. That pawn may go from E4 to E7. And you're like, well, that's not in the rules. I didn't expect that. You can't do that. But in football, that happens. And the reason I'm saying that is, is if you think of coaching as strictly a tactical,

schematic X's and O's operation where you don't take into the account the most important part, which is that regardless how smart your scheme is, Those kids are the ones that's going to win or lose the game, not you. And then you allow the creativity of the athleticism of those kids to define what your next move is by whatever they've accomplished or not accomplished. Then you have a chance to win. And I think that's true in business. I think that's true in coaching. And so you've got to step back.

You've got to check your ego. You've got to check yourself. You've got to prepare your kids for every eventual. that you can dream up. But as the game or the action unfolds in front of you, as your players are out there trying to win the game and making their mind up about their effort and how well they're going to execute what you're asking them to do,

every about 20 seconds, you have another opportunity to make a decision to put them in a position to win the next play. And the outcome of that play is going to be what determines what you do the next play, not some set, preconceived group of plans you had going into the game. It's the players that dictate how you execute a plan. Okay. I think you also just summed it up. I mean, it's also the secret to a decent conversation. You can have your agenda, and sometimes if you stick with it, it'll be the reason it works out

great. And sometimes if you abandon it, it'll be the reason it works out great. I think interestingly, you can take that into relationships. I think you can take that also into what's wrong with us in D.C. today. I think you can take that thought process a number of different places. And maybe you can employ that mentality and it serve you well in a lot of different places. What did it feel like to, see yourself on the big screen the first time. You know, I mean, because watching the film, I watched the film a couple times,

but I watched it start to finish last night. And, you know, there's some things you can fake, and there's some things that you can't. I think the reason that film won the Academy Award is that, you know, and Chuck, you can jump in, too, because I know you're a big fan of it, but the love and the heart. Just the sheer unapologetic affection you have for those kids comes across in a way that, you know, it's funny. Normally I'm the guy who says, look, I'm kind of wary of earnestness unless it's really earnest. Like, unless it's really authentic. And Chuck and I had a teacher back in high school that you remind us both of.

I talked to you about Fred King and our conversation. And I just wondered, what was it like? When did you first see yourself on the screen? And was it what you expected to see? D-Dood-Dood-Dood-D-Dum! Well, people are still raving, raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest Pure Talk commercial. And if you haven't seen it, I encourage you to give it a look on my Facebook page

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really is an unmitigated bargain from an American wireless company that keeps all their customer service in this country, supports our veterans in a meaningful way, as well as the MicroWorks Foundation, and allows me to exploit my own mother in a national advertising campaign. my mom did, get yourself unlimited high-speed data for just 3499 a month at puretalk.com slash row. You can switch in as little as 10 minutes at puretalk.com slash row. Pure talk. The first thing I want to say to you is I completely get the reverence that both you and Chuck hold for Fred King and for you to tell, and Chuck said it before you should. showed up late.

Chuck said that I reminded you guys a little bit of Fred King, and I just want to tell you, I know coming from you guys, that is a massive compliment, and I really appreciate that. Your listeners may have no idea what we're talking about. I don't care. I just want to tell you guys, I'm humbled by your saying that. Well, so I was broke, and Lisa and I had worked our rearings off. And we finally booked. We had four kids in four years.

Irish quintuplets. Yeah. Well, Lisa's hot, and I'm fat and red-headed. In the South, the way you keep a hot woman around, you just start having kids. So we had four them in four years. By then, she couldn't go anywhere. So I'd made enough money. And our kids were 7, 8, 9, and 10.

And we booked Disneyland, World. Which one's in Orlando? World. Orlando's World. world for spring break. Big thing. And I mean, for me, it was everything. I'd saved up like two years, booked it, all that. And about three weeks before we're to go on our massive spring break vacation, I get a call from Dan and T.J. And they're like, amazing news. South by Southwest picked up undefeated. And I'm like, oh, that's great, guys. Good for you. And like, no, you got to come. And I'm like,

but when is it? And it literally was in the very middle of our spring break trip that my kids had been jacked up crawling off the walls. So I'm excited about Disney, Mickey, all of it, the misery that was to come for me, but the excitement for the children. And I said, guys, I can't go to Austin. This is, my kids have been, you know, this is the big thing. And they're like, no, you have to come.

And I'm like, am I even in it that much? and they're like, are you in the movie that much? And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, Bill, you have to come. This is South by Southwest. They're going to give us big billing. And I said, I can't. So they called up whoever it was that put them on a shoestring budget to make this thing in the first place.

Y'all, this film had like a $200,000 budget. And they got an extension to $250. And I said, okay, Bill, we'll pay to expend your vacation at, Disneyland by our world, the Orlando one, by two days, and we'll fly you and your whole family from Orlando in the middle of your vacation to Austin, you attend the film festival, and we'll fly you back and resume your thing. And I'm like, okay, well, that's Gucci. We got a vacations. I haven't been able to take my kids on one vacation. I'm giving them two. You know, dad is great. So the day we leave is daylight savings time. And we didn't know, because we're

We were in Disney World on vacation. And so we get to the airport in Orlando to go to this big film that I don't even know I'm in an hour late. So anyway, we got to be there. So I jump around. I book a Southwest flight and we get to Houston. And then I need a rent a car in Houston that turns into the Austin. And the only thing I could find was a purple crown Victoria. So Lisa and I in the front seat with one kid in the middle, three across the back,

The first thing they do is scream their hungry. We pull over in a Sonic. I just tell them, give me one of everything you got. And we're rolling at Austin. So our big film experience was rolling to Austin with four kids climbing off the ceiling, Sonic rappers and crap flying around everywhere, rolling in a purple crown Vic to Austin. That was my triumphant movie start experience. Then I go into this room of seven months.

150 people with my children and I sit in the almost back row of the movie and we watched the movie for the first time. And people are laughing. People are crying. People are jumping up and cheering. People are going crazy and the whole time I'm thinking, gosh, I'm fat. I can't believe. The camera adds 10 pounds, Bill. And I thought, I didn't know I sounded like this. I'm such a

and country and fat and damn. And then at the end of it, they bring Dan and TJ up front to do a Q&A after the thing. And the first question is, where's Coach Bill now? And he goes, oh, he's right there and points to me. And me and Lee said the kids are like, what? And everybody stands up, starts clapping. And then at the end of the night, we go to this after-dinner thing, little did I know, Paramount, MGM, Weinstein, and somebody else,

they had a bidding war for the rights to this thing for three hours while we're drinking beer screwing around, and my kids are over there, eating popcorn, bounce off the walls, when do we go get to see Mickey? And the guy who produces Yellowstone, David Glasser, worked for the Weinstein's then, and he's the one that shepherded through, and he walks up to him and he goes,

you understand your life is never going to be the same now. And I'm like, what? What do you talk? talking about. And then a year later, I'm walking down the red carpet at the Academy Awards. So you ask me what my experience is? I still don't know how it happened. Pete Carroll and I got to be buddies. And he's like, Bill, how do you win an Academy Award coaching football? And I'm like, you tell me, I got no idea how this happened. So there's my experience. That's it. That's the truth. That's a great story. Well, sadly, it's not the answer to my question. How did you feel

when you were sitting back there, you got your family, you're still obviously on the high that can only come with rolling up to a red carpet and a purple crown Vic, right? You still got the taste of Sonic burger back in your throat,

probably with some crumbs on your chin. And yeah, you get it. Okay, you're fatter than you thought and you sound like a hillbilly. But, look, I'm not going to do or say anything in the way of a spoiler alert. But there's a moment. You are holding,

this kid. I say kid, he's bigger than you, in your arms toward the end, and you're whispering in his ear at about the most poignant moment, probably in his life. And the camera comes in, and the tears are rolling down this kid's cheeks. And I don't know what you're saying to him, but I know what Fred King said to me once upon a time that made me cry. And that's really what I'm asking. What did it feel like to watch a moment like that? Oh, and also, sidebar, but what the hell do you mean you didn't know you were in the movie? I mean, how? They left Memphis with 550 hours of film.

They spent a year with me and the rest of the team. I figured I was in it, but I didn't know I was central to it. I didn't know that then, you know? And what I said to OSE was you've given everything you could possibly give to this football. team for four years, I could not be more proud of you. I love you like you're my own son. And your skill and talent have given you an opportunity to go do something with your life. Make us all proud and go be the best version of yourself. And I'll love you all the way through it. And I was also crying because I was so very proud of how far that kid had come in his life and knew that this could not be.

What a sad narrative it would be on my failure as a coach if that moment was the highlight of these kids' life. at 18 years old, that needed to be a stepping stone to so many more highlights for them. And I didn't want that moment to be anything other than a launch pad rather than the destination. And so I was challenging him to understand that I love him and to move on. And that's what was going on. Did you know or care that there was a camera three feet from you? Had you stopped seeing. You weren't even seeing the trappings of production at that point.

I know this sounds disingenuous. I really do know it sounds disingenuous, okay? And I wouldn't expect anybody to even believe me had they not experienced this before in their life. But for the first couple of weeks, you were real aware of their cameras around. You really were. After a couple weeks, it was actually more odd. Sometimes the kids would go, you know, if they took a day off, where the camera guys coach?

I'm like, hell, I don't know where the camera guys are. You know, and the other thing is, this was a $250,000 budget film, which is three guys with two borrowed cameras, and their studio was the second bedroom in an apartment they shared for a year in Memphis. There weren't boom trucks. There weren't lights.

There was not sound people. There were not those booms with microphones hanging off of it. It was little lapel mics on three or four people, and a couple of cameras. And to Dan and T.J. the director's credit, who rightly run the Oscar for this thing, the only way they capture that movie with no more help than what they had is work about 15 hours a day and be present all the time.

I mean, and that's how you get 550 hours of film that you go back to edit to make an hour and 53-minute movie. And so two things is one, I was never once asked to say anything. repeat anything. There was never one second that we were told, hey, would you say that again or stage this up? Never once in the truest sense of the word, it was a fly on the wall, true documenting every second as it happened, the way it happened. And then the second thing is, I'm telling you, after a few weeks, you don't even know cameras around you. And I had no, listen, when I,

And answer your question, how did it feel? There were two scenes when I watched the movie that choked me up. Because I had no idea they existed. The one you just mentioned was one. But before that was when I was walking off the field with my youngest son and I was carrying his helmet and shoulder pads. Because I never had a dad to do that for me. And it's always affected me that I would look up and see,

I was in ninth grade, Mike, and we were playing a rival team, and it was an absolute downpour. And when I say muddy, every step was three inches of mud. And it was back in the day where you just played through it. And it was 6-0. They scored missed extra point. I scored a touchdown at the very end of the game. It was like 50 seconds left in the game and tied it up 6-6. and coach wanted to go for two, and I'm like, no, let's kick it.

He said the ball is a brick, and I don't even know if there's a dry place to spot it, and I said, I can kick it, I can make it. And I kicked it, and we won 7, 6. And the place went eight crazy nuts. Well, yay. And, of course, everybody's jumping around in the middle of the field after the game, high-fiving, took a knee, coached his little speech. And then I looked up, and all looked up.

And all of my team were walking off the field, their dads with their arms around them, and you can put your helmet to shoulder pads and carry them. And they were walking off. And I was walking off alone. And I'm the guy just scored. And poor pitiful me, victimhood, I don't want to get into all that. But it affected me deeply. And it's a very personal thing for me, fathlessness.

And that story really sums. up a lot of pain I'd carried with me a lot in my life. And then when that scene that I didn't even know existed, and I don't even remember doing of my son and me walking off football field, where I've got my arm around him and I'm carrying his equipment. Oh, my brother, and my son, and I see it for the first time with my children on both sides of me and this thing at Austin. and how did I feel redeemed? I mean, just as a viewer, I found myself putting myself in your kid's place,

not your players, your kids, because my dad was a schoolteacher as well, and he had this other family, this other group of kids to whom he was devoted. And he spent many, many hours, you know, grading their papers and reading their essays and worrying about them. And jealousy isn't the right word.

But to be a kid and to be aware that your dad has great affection for another group of kids, that takes a minute for a kid to square. And you know where I'm going with this. You love those kids on that team with the white, hot intensity of a thousand sons, and it comes screaming, off of the screen and it's beautiful. I do wonder what kind of sacrifice does a coach have to make

with his own family, to whom you're clearly devoted, but how do you parse that? And maybe that moment in the film, maybe it was redemptive for that reason. There's another moment that the cameras didn't catch, and I'll share with you. Before that final season, that was my seventh year. I'd already decided that was it. Lisa was on me a little bit. Lisa was very supportive, but she was also saying, you're missing too much your own kid's stuff. And besides coaching football, I was also growing a business with 130 employees. So the time was tough. And I mean, I coached the girls in basketball and I did everything I could to make it.

But I was missing a lot. And anyway, I had not told anybody that I was not coming back. And the night before the final game in the playoffs, once you, you go through the season of the playoffs, it's you win in advance, you lose your out. So it was the night before the first playoff game. And we were gathered around the table, the four kids, Lisa and I, we always ate together. And I said, hey, guys, I really want you guys to come to the game tomorrow if you can. And they're like, oh, okay. I mean, after 30 years of coaching football, the kids come to some, they don't come to some, right? I mean, whatever. And I said, I really want you

to come to the game tomorrow and they said, well, why? And I said, well, it's the playoffs. If I lose, I'm done. If the team loses, this is it for me. And they said, well, there's always next year. And I said, well, I hadn't told anybody this, but now as good as time as any, I'm not going back next year. And I said, so if we lose, it'll be the last game ever coach at the masses. And I would like my family there with me. And if we win, I'd love you there to celebrate with me. And I'm talking in Will, we sat at a six-person table and Lisa sat at one in. I sat at the other. The girls were always on the right.

The boys were always on the left. They had their, I guess they're pre-assigned seats for supper. But Will was always the first on the left. And I look over at Will. And he's nine years old, bawling, Mike, bawling. And I look at him and I said, son, what's wrong? And he said, Dad, you can't leave. Menaces. And I said, why? And he said, because they need you more than we do. And I will tell you

something, brother. Oh, man. Well, yeah, that takes a second to ruminate. If you engage in an activity that somehow perturbs your own children's mindset, that their own father is more valuable to another set of kids other than his own, you have aired. And that comment absolutely solidified in 20 feet thick of wet concrete that my decision to leave was the right one. Because somehow my children had come to the conclusion that my time was more valuable with kids other than my own. and they were sacrificing their own father for other kids.

And I had completely screwed up my family dynamic. And I had work to do. So when you talk about teachers and coaches with families, that balance is a very hard balance to take. It's one many fail at. And it's one that when you're sitting in the stands and you don't like what that high school coach, the play he called, and you decide you have the right to stand from the stands

and scream at that guy and say, you're an idiot, I can't believe you're running that. You need to think about what that guy's given up to try to mentor and teach and love your kid and keep your mouth shut because it is a hell of a balance. People should understand, too, the kind of kids that you're talking about. I don't want to assume too much,

but before you got to Manassas, what was like 10 years, the record was something like they won two games and lost, what, 80 some? They had won four. $4.95. $4.95 was the previous 10 years record. They weren't too salty. I mean, that's a heck of a thing. Yeah.

I mean, wow. I swore I wasn't going to ask any of the obvious questions, but, you know, the enemy of a good plan is a perfect plan, right? So what's it feel like walking into a, uh, a team that was so completely and totally defined by losing. Like, how did that not feel? How do you turn that ship around? I love stories like this. Seven years ago, a guy named Ben Still was a musician.

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Get good ranchers now. Hey-haw! Well, first, you have to understand it's the fifth poor zip code in the United States. Tons of demographics I could give you, like, only 1.3% of people from that neighborhood have a college degree, fewer than 40% have a high school diploma or a GED equivalent. 87% of the households, named the grandmother as the head of the households. 86% live below the poverty line. Did you say 87% have a grandmother as the house? head of household. Name the grandmothers the head of the household. 86% lived below poverty line. Fewer than 35% of the people there have a working automobile. But the one that's really most

gripping is an 18-year-old male is three times more likely by his 21st birthday to be incarcerated or dead than he is to have a job. So when you walk into a football team that's 495, it's not often about the ability to play football. It's typically a lot more about the lack of fundamental tenants, a level playing field, and the 495 is nothing more than a microcosm for the abject failure and loss at life that manifests itself on a football field. So, yes, you have to start coaching X's and O's. But again, it's so much deeper than that. You've got to start coaching character and commitment, integrity,

and the dignity of hard work and leadership and teamwork and all of the basic fundamentals and tenets that are in my book against the grain about how to build yourself to a place that you have a foundation from which you can go in. And when you don't have that foundation, you can't expect anything other than four and ninety-five. and in so many areas of the country, we are now on second, third, and even fourth generation of complete abject poverty, loss, disenfranchisement, and despair.

And the old adage that you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps with good old American hard work and work yourself out of that is crap because those kids don't have anything close to a level playing field from which to even start winning. So you have to provide a level playing field. You have to give a different mindset of a way to attack that playing field. And you have to show a lot of love, a lot of patience, a lot of compassion, while also instituting a lot of accountability.

And that takes some time. But when you do it and you do it the right way, positive things can happen. I wonder if sometimes the sheer dauntingness of the challenge can work in your favor. Like if it's so bad, like bad is bad. You know, obstacles are obstacles. Yeah, I know. Some would see them as opportunities and that's all great. But what I'm getting at is like, okay, to bring it back to Fred King for a second, our music teacher.

The first thing he did when I was in the 10th grade was give us a piece of music that was so completely beyond our ability to sing. That, right, I mean, it was breathtaking. It was by Ralph von Williams. It was called Hodea as a pretty famous orchestral and choral work. It's just not for high school kids. And then later, Chuck, I think you were around for box mass and B minor. monstrously inappropriate undertaking, right? It's preposterous.

It'd be like tossing a six-year-old the keys to a purple crown Vic, right, and saying, good luck with that. Find Austin. Find Austin. But we didn't know how ridiculously outmaneuvered, outclassed. We didn't know. So Fred was using, Fred was using to his advantage. the fact that you did know what you didn't know.

That's right. That's interesting. I mean, I just wonder, you know, when you look at four in 96 or whatever it was, that's what it was. That's that same level of, okay, I guess maybe if we win one out of the next 10, we can have a party. And so, was there an element of, oh, my God, this is so bad? These kids are so screwed. This zip code is so doomed. These cards are so lousy that, you know, you know,

Yeah, this could actually be kind of fun. Let's go for it. Well, for me, there was because, you know, what are they going to run you off for not winning? I mean, that's just status quo, you know? So the other thing is, yes, I can remember people saying early in the days when the newspaper would have us win a game or that first year we went four and six. and I remember people saying four and six at Manassas. I never thought I'd see the day. But here's the thing.

You know, kids are kids. The zip code at the time of your birth should have no bearing on your success in life. And there were eager kids that just wanted to be part of something positive and to be part of something that wasn't second-rate. And so I know it sounds superficial, but we went out, raised a lot of money and bought new equipment, new uniforms. Because you can't be good if you don't feel good. And we bought new equipment. And we quit taking, they call yellow buses cheese.

We quit taking cheese on cold November nights with sweat up and down the road where everybody's coughing and hacking. We rented charter buses. And we took our kids. to play outside of the inner city and out to suburban places that had really nice fields. And we convinced them that on Friday night, this is the one four-hour period where you don't have to be a second-class citizen, where you are not stuck in poverty, where you are not looked down on, where you are not trounced on by society, where you don't have to feel disenfranchised. You're going to be equal. You're going to be equal. You're going to be equal.

in terms of your preparation. You're going to be equal in terms of the equipment. You're going to be equal in terms of how you show up, the food you eat, the clothes you wear, and the equipment you play with. So here's two things. One, feel better about yourself. Two, quit using your environment and the issues that are rightly so surrounding you and making you desperate on this four hours every night. You're not allowed to be a victim of that anymore. We're going to erase that excuse. We're going to level the playing field for you and give you an opportunity to show that if the playing's field level, you like any other kid on the face of the planet can succeed. And we said that to them as an expectation. And I will tell you, I've coached ball for 31 years. I've got

130 employees. I've been in business 25 years. If you give people the tools they need with the right tutelage, training, teaching, and encouragement, and level the playing field forum, and identify and illustrate the expectations of them, and remove all of the barriers they have to success, and strip from them their victimhood, and give them the opportunity and hold them accountable to what you expect from them. My experience has been the human conditions, says those people will succeed if you're consistent. And that's what happened. It took some time. It's interesting to me, though, that you can, I agree with you on a thousand foot level. All of that stuff will have an impact. The interesting thing is you don't get to choose who

it's going to impact the most. All you can really do is throw it out there. Again, as a viewer of this doc, I was pretty sure that the kid we meet early on is doomed, right? The fighter. Chavis. Yeah, man. I mean, there's just the over under on him winding up in the clink is not favorable. I don't want to give things away, but I mean, I've done a little reading on who's who, and that kid, that kid was impacted by everything you just said.

It's like the pitcher who lets go of the ball. You know, once it's on its way to the plate, it's just, there's nothing you can do except watch. And so you throw all that out there and of all the kids to take it to heart, that one, you know, to see him turn things around. That was pretty amazing. Who happened to be a guest on my podcast about four episodes ago. And the reason he's a guest on an army of normal folks is not because he was part of a movie that I was in with him, but because he has now started a youth and mentoring program in the very neighborhoods he came from serving 130 young boys and girls, and their motto is

school first and has done amazing things in a very poor community of Memphis. He has absolutely taken it beyond the levels that I could have taken it. And this is a guy who was jail his sophomore year for 15 months, who when you watch the movie, you think is definitely chalk him up on the statistics side because he's definitely going to be one of them. And he is the exact polar opposite of that now. And that is not about me. That is about instituting basic tenants and fundamentals that are key to a meaningful life, key to winning on and off the football field. And then that kid making the cognitive decision. that I am going to employ this stuff in my life, and I am going to change the trajectory of my life.

And he did. That's very true, Coach Bill. But, you know, when I watch this movie, I see you mentoring these kids. I see you not creating great football players, but creating great people. You're turning boys into men. And it was under your tutelage, under your direction. You gave him the tools. You're right.

It's up to him to use them. carry them on, but you brought those tools to bear. You put them in front of him. You showed him what he needed to do. It was up to him to make the choice. He made the choice, but he made the change. He made the choice and the change. You showed him how. Chuck, Mike, my mom was married and divorced five times. My fourth daddy shot at me down a hallway with a 38 caliber pistol and I had to dive out a window to save myself, went to a neighbor's house called the cops. House was shot up. The cops got to him while my mom was cowered in the corner of the attic before she was shot.

I grew up in a lot of chaos, dysfunction, and trauma, frankly. My ninth grade year, Phillips Spain was my head football coach from Milan, Tennessee. I think he was a son of a cotton farmer. No nonsense. tough man, tough coach, but had a really, really, really good servant's heart. And my freshman year, I got in a fight, which I started and which the guy I got a fight with ended when he dotted my left eye, which I completely deserved. But back then, when you were an athlete, if you got in trouble, you didn't really go to the

principal's office. You went to a coach's office. And so I was with Coach Spain. And I just knew he was going to beat the hell out of me. And he asked me, you know, did you learn your lesson? I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, let me tell you something. He said, I know you're dealing with a lot of dysfunction and sadness in your life.

And he said, and I know you're dealing with a lot of stuff at home that's uncomfortable and hard for you. And he said, you got a choice to make. Back then I was Billy. You got a choice to make Billy. And I said, yes, sir. And he said, you can either recognize that all. all these fools in your life that are living in the dysfunction and dragging you through it, you can choose to be a victim of that and ultimately be that when you become an adult.

Or you can decide to dig your hills in despite all the challenges you're facing and the dysfunction in your life and you can decide you're going to be a rock that other people break themselves on. He said, so do you want to be a rock or a victim kid? That is the mentality that I coached the kids at Menaces with. That is the definition to me of tough love. And if I could convince these kids to quit being victims and start being rocks, they had a chance. Yes. And it sounds like you did.

I tried. Not all of them worked, but a lot of them did. But what I'm saying is all I did was given the mindset. It would be paternalistic of me to say that I saved their lives. All I did was given the mindset, but like I did when I was young, and I had to make the choice when a mentor gave me the option and painted it for me, I made the choice for me. All I wanted to do was give the tools and illustrate the difference the road looked like on these two choices. But ultimately, those kids had to make the choice. Those kids had to put in the work for themselves.

Those kids worked it for themselves. All I was, much like Coach Spain was for me, was a conduit to think about things a different way. Yeah. And that's what Fred was. All he did. I mean, I say all he did. It was a heck of a thing. But he would physically sometimes grab you by the scruff of the neck and reorient you, you know.

Not that way. You needed reorienting. Yeah, right. Not over there. over here. It's like any kind of aiming, right? I mean, if you're off by just the tiniest little amount back here, you miss your target by that much down there. That's what I saw you do with those kids. You were just reorienting them, right? And I'm also really interested, that's the second time I've heard you struggle around the issue of pride. You hesitate to say, I'm proud of these kids.

In fact, I think I remember an interview where you said, look, I don't. I don't want to say I'm proud. I want to say that I'm inspired. That's what it was. And I thought that was really interesting. Why do you stumble over that? Or am I just imagining it? No.

I want an Academy Award, Mike. I'm a guy from Memphis that coaches high school football and has a lumber company. I never thought I'd write a book. And now I've got a book that's used in master's level classes and colleges all over the United States and has sold thousands of copies. I've been given awards that you wouldn't believe. I've been on TV shows. I've got this podcast that has actually peaked at number 10 in the country on Apple. I didn't have a pot to pee in or window to throw it out of. And I've got 130 employees that does business in 42 different countries and did 80 million in sales last year.

I am so blessed. And I don't really know why. And I think, it's a kick in the face of those blessings by being proud of it. I'm thankful. I'm inspired. I'm full of grace as a result of it. But how can I be proud of what I've been blessed with? I'm just thankful. And so I am proud of the kids, immensely proud of those players. I'm immensely proud of my employees who have bettered their life as a result of this business. I am deeply proud of my children. And oh my God, my wife allowing me the 14 hours a day to coach football and grow a business while she was at home raising four kids and diapers. Think of pushing four kids and diapers through freaking Walmart. I mean, holy crap, I'd want to kill myself. I'm so

proud of the effort she did so we could have this amazing family we have. But I am not going to say I'm proud of what I've done. I'm inspired. I'm thankful. I think that pride, if you allow yourself to have that look at me, ego pride for all of these things, it's the first step to it all unraveling. The fall, as they would say. Yeah. Yeah, the thing that goes right before it. Yeah. It's called humility. I wouldn't know. Yeah. No, Chuck would know. Not possessed of a shred of it. Not one ounce of self-awareness. The unexamined life.

This, and Mike, y'all, please, this is not some guy from the Delta South, all shucks, false humility thing. It's really not. It's genuinely how I feel and how I think. And candidly, how Lisa thinks and feels. And it's one of the reasons why we have the marriage we do is she is not impressed. I mean, I still cannot. remember to put the freaking lid down when I'm finished and that's how she sees me. Hey, look, she's not a victim.

She's a grown woman. She could put the lid down herself, okay? Character, Lisa. Little discipline. Does she walk in there backwards or something? She doesn't see. Oh my gosh. If we went on air, I'd got a story about that, but I'm not telling it now.

But, you know, it's dark at night. And, you know, when you don't want to turn the light on to wake your spouse up and the lid's up, You sit in a no lid and your butt goes straight down in the toilet water and you just keep going. You end up pretty upset. Yeah. Yeah, it'll leave a mark, man, for sure. Emotionally. It'll scar you.

The first couple of times, but like time nine, she's pretty pissed. I need to start remembering. Tell me about wood. Tell me about lumber. There's a great line in a Robert Frost poem. I forget. He talks about working on the more important wood. I've worked in lumber mills from time to time.

I've visited a few. I've always been struck by a quality. I'm not exactly sure how to sum it up, but there's something very primal about the business of working with wood and shaping and creating and providing such a vital resource. I just wonder, how'd you get into it and how'd you grow it into the obvious success that it is? I was coaching football for a living, making $17,000 a year with no insurance and three kids and diapers and one on the way. And I got out of it because I couldn't afford to anymore.

I continued to coach, obviously. In Tennessee, you can take some classes and be what's called a certified non-faculty coach. And so there's a few of us who can do that. And so I kept coaching. But pragmatically, I had to do something to make more money to feed all these kids that I had to keep lease. around. So a really catch-22 situation for me. So I bounced around and I ended up catching a job selling fleets of vehicles. And so I sold four trucks to a guy owned a lumber company. And he said, you don't really remind me of a car guy. And I said, well, I was working on my doctorate in

psychology. I was coaching. I met this girl. I started having these kids broke. Couldn't pay the rent. And so this pays the bills. And he He's like, well, would you ever think about selling lumber? And I'm like, I don't know. What's it pay? And he said, 20% more than you're making today. I said, I'm a lumber salesman now. And so I took the job.

And I went to work. And five years later, I was 31. We'd grown his sales from $20 million a year to $110 million a year. And I was the vice president of company by that time. And I had some ideas. And I wanted a little bit of ownership. I didn't want to be the 45-year-old guy. that's axed because of nepotism and the owner had kids coming up and he

wasn't buying what I was selling and so I quit and we had $17,000 in the bank and four kids and I started classic American hardwoods off my couch. I went out raise some money, raised some revenue, bought a dilapidated piece of property in North Memphis and started manufacturing hardwood lumber kind of on a wing in a prayer on September 1st. 10 days before the buildings were hit. Oh, wow, 2001. Yeah.

And it worked. Kimmins Wilson was the founder of Holiday Ends. And that guy is a Memphian, believe it or not. So all the Marriottes and Holiday Ends and Hampton Inns and all the brand name large chain hotels you saw started in Memphis with Holiday Inn and man named Kimmins Wilson. and before he passed, I got to have lunch with him when I was young. I won an award in college and I got to have lunch with him.

And that was kind of like, you know, a big deal. And I was at lunch with him. And I ate with him at his FBO. And literally, I could see out the window and his Learjet was sitting there that he was about to walk on and fly off somewhere to. And he said to me, you know what you got to do to be successful? And I said, no, sir, but I'd love to know. And he said, just work half the day. And I said, well, here's a billionaire.

There's a jet. I'm in. Sign me up. Half the day. And he said, yeah, Bill, you don't. You just have the day. You can work the first 12 hours or the second 12 hours you choose. And that also was one of those aha moments that stuck with me. And so the hard with lumber business is a hard business.

It's a dirty job, Mike. It's dusty. It's cold. It's hot. I've got boiling. that fuel the kilns that are full of steam and gas. There's hydraulics. There's chains.

It's a capital-intensive, labor-intensive, really hard business that you can get dramatically affected by the cost and sale of your material because some of it takes as long as a year to process, some nine months, some three months. So you're dealing with a commodity that's constantly changing that while you're holding you can get caught with. So it's a high pressure, high stress environment on the procurement and sales side as well as the manufacturing side. And I was fortunate enough to surround myself for four or five really dedicated people.

And we decided we were going to work half the day. And we did for 15, 20 years and caught a few lucky breaks along the road. And now we make lumber that goes to 42 different countries. and our species are oak, ash, maple, cherry, red oak, white oak, poplar, ash, cherry, hard maple, soft maple, cedar, walnut. Think of it this way. Softwoods build a structure, hardwoods furnish it. So I sell all the stuff that builds furniture and cabinets and flooring and trim mold and all of that. And some years have been rough and some years have been good.

And we've stayed the test of time so far and we still, I'm here. And despite all this other stuff I'm doing, I'm still here every day. And we work very hard. Is it despite it or is it somehow weirdly because of it? I've met a few guys like you. And I hesitate to some people up. But you're working 12 hours a day. You're coaching.

You're raising four kids. You're running a multi-million dollar business. business and all the headaches that come with it. You're writing a book. You wrote a book. Now you've got this podcast. So, you know, I get the plates all spinning at the same time, but you're not a normal guy. And I say that as a compliment. It's the same compliment you paid me when I came on to your podcast, which is weird because your podcast is called an army of normal folks. but most people don't keep six and seven plates spinning at the same time. So I guess my question is, what is your objective with the podcast?

And what is it about this frenetic kind of approach to doing everything that, like, do you hope that others will follow your lead? Or are you just trying to put yourself out there as a, I don't know, an example of, for instance, proof of what's possible? I think the plate spinning has something to do with my extraordinary high levels of adult ADHD. I lettered in six sports in high school. My athletic director said I was a triathlet, I'd try anything. I've always involved myself on a lot of stuff, and I have a lot of interest.

the podcast kind of started on accident. I was being interviewed and I said something in an interview that resonated with these producer-type people. And they came back six weeks later and said, you said something in an interview that I can't quit thinking about. And I think it could be a podcast and even be a movement. And I said, uh-oh, I didn't know what I said. I'd forgotten. Been interviewed a lot.

You say things. and he reminded me of what I said and I said, yeah, I believe that. And what I said was there's areas in every city that we drive by that you pass by and you do not want your car to break down there. The 240. Yeah, right. Where you're looking down the road and you see the abject despair of poverty and loss and you think, if I have a flat tire here, I'm going to get mugged. Or you're on the interstate. And it's that one off ramp like at Compton or Watts that you're like,

this is not where I want my car to break down. And then as you safely pass by and you peer down the edge, metaphorically like this, down your nose. And you see all of that despair. You think to yourself, you know, somebody ought to do something about that one day, as if that sentiment means anything, which it does not. And I think we had to cock that rearview mirror about 15 degrees of the left and look ourselves in the face, say, you know, maybe I could do something about that one day.

Because the fancy people on both sides of our national news media on CNN and Fox and CNBC and Newsmax and all of that, you know, they're honestly motivated by an extraordinary amount of power and money to continue to craft narratives that divide us. They don't fix anything. And then these people in D.C., and I don't mean to average Joe on street, I'm talking about the ones in the capital of the White House. You know, it seems to me they continue to line their pockets and get elected and have this immense amount of power and prestige. And the only way they can do that is to try to lead us like sheep to their narrative that you think like me and not like the, quote, enemy, which is another American who, might happen to worship or love or think differently than you. Well, they're not fixing anything.

Government's proven woefully inadequate in serving the most disadvantaged among us. The people in New York on the news can talk about it all they want, but what the hell are they doing? Rather, I think it's just going to take an army of normal folks, just guys like you and me seeing a little corner of the area of their world that they see a place of need and they fill it. And if we could create literally hundreds of thousands of people that are just an army of normal folks, regardless of if they're black, white, Latino, Asian, male, female, gay, straight, Democrat, Republican, Christian, Jewish, agnostic, Muslim, whatever. Just an army of Americans in our diverse country. Couldn't we all celebrate? Isn't there one thing we don't argue about, which is the

simple edification of another human being that may not be as blessed as we are? So I said that in this interview and then I forgot about it. And this guy calls me back up, Alex, and he says, you know, I want to start this podcast where we find normal folks doing extraordinary things and you interview them. And we continue to invite the listeners to join the army. And if you listen long enough, we're going to have a diverse enough amount of stories out there that if you listen long enough, you're going to hear a story that matches your discipline with your passion. Like, I think the stuff you do, I would love to be able to play an instrument or sing. I love the symphony orchestra. I love going to it. I can't play anything. And if you heard me sing, it would besmirch the memory

of Fred King. So there's no way I'm going to go in the inner city and teach some kids how to play a trombone or sing or anything, although I think that would be a wonderful outreach. I just will never do it. My discipline happens to be football as where my passion is. So my discipline met my passion of football, and that's where I could serve. Well, if you listen long enough to an army and normal folks, you're going to hear stories of people who are doing things in the music world, who are doing things for bullied kids, who are doing things for the homeless, who are doing things for the autistic, who are doing things for children coming out of abused homes, who are doing things for parents, who have stillborn babies. You're going to hear something that

hits you that you have the discipline to work in in your area of the world and that you have a passion about and then you too can join the army and over the course of time with this thing we build this army of normal folks who despite how you vote how you worship who you love or how you think can join in community of other people who are simply serving other people in our community And if we could build that community of people, then all of a sudden we don't have to be led by sheep, like sheep, by the narrative producing people in our country. And it's always been we the people. So why not return to the idea of an army of normal folks? We the people fixing what's broken in our communities.

And if we could grow up big enough listenership and get enough people listening long enough, maybe we could fix some of what else's. how will you mobilize them if that comes to pass what's the next step well i thought that was a great idea you know i mean that's what yeah and i said well sure i'll host it i don't know what i'm doing i'm a football coach a lover guy and so we started interviewing normal people and how do you mobilize them by doing shows with you mike and you telling people about us and driving listenership more and more because every single guest gives their personal contact information. So if you're listening to episode 19, and it's about a woman who had two stillborn births and who her most prized, cherished thing is a picture of her and her husband with their

stillborn baby. Now, when I first heard that, I thought that was grotesque. frankly, to take a picture with a dead child, a dead baby. But five years later, that's the only memory they have of that child. And if properly set, it's a beautiful photo. Well, she started this organization because she found out there were mothers and fathers who were wrought with grief over having absolutely no memory of their child. So she started an organization to take pictures to offer,

opportunity for families to have pictures with their babies that were still born. And she got photographers to donate. Can you imagine being a photographer? I don't know this family. I don't know that anything, but I'm going to go into a hospital room at one of the most difficult times in these people's lives and I'm going to take pictures for them. Can you imagine the grace it takes to be able to do that? Well, guess what? This thing is now the largest philanthropic thing for photographers in the world. And these people have taken thousands and thousands and thousands of pictures for family. And these families come back routinely after you're saying, I don't know what I would do without the photo of this because it's not a bad memory anymore.

This was my child. That's amazing. So if you hear that and you're a photographer, you might say, I want to do that. And that's one of thousands of stories we're going to releasing every Tuesday. And if you listen, sure, they need to be inspirational. They need to be entertaining. They need to be funny. They need to be redemptive. And we work hard to make it good product of entertainment. But at the end, they're also supposed to be inspirational and redemptive. And then each guest gives you their contact information. So if you hear it, you have a show that is now a blueprint of how it works. And you have a contact of the person that you can call that will now be your mentor about how you two can do that in your community. And over the course of time, grow an

army of normal folks doing extraordinary things across this country, regardless of who we are, where we come from. And I think it literally does have a chance to be a movement that allows us to think about one another in terms other than political, religious, or sexual belief. Where do people go? What's the website to get, I mean, obviously just to listen. I guess you can listen wherever you listen to podcasts, but what else can they do if they want to be involved? Normalfolks.us. You can write me like our guest. I also, Bill at normalfokes.us.

You can email me. Go to normalfokes. com. Download it. Subscribe to it. Rate it. Review it. Listen.

Become a regular Tuesday listener. It's a show a week. And hopefully we can get enough people to buy in. And like I said, I mean, we really have. been as high as number 10 of the country on Apple, which is shocking to me. Mike, we've only been live for about three and a half months. So we're fresh out of the gate. And as you know, numbers go up and down. And so we're not always 10, but we have been there. So we're getting some listenership, but I'm doing a lot of this kind of work to try to get the word out and

begging people like you to tell people about it because I genuinely think it has a chance. It's not I'm making no money from this. It's not about, it really is an opportunity to use whatever platform I was given as a result of a movie I thought nobody would ever see to try to exact some measure of good in our world. So that's why I'm doing it. Well, let me just say there's magic in that movie. It's called Undefeated. And when you see it and you need to, you'll see the magic. And if you want to experience some of it for yourself, you know, you don't have to play football in Memphis or be coached directly by Bill.

You can get involved in any number of ways. And I just want to encourage people to do that. And spoiler alert, Bill, it will work. I've seen what you're doing work in other ways. You know, Dirty Jobs was programmed primarily by the viewers. I did a show called Returning the Favor for years on Facebook. All those ideas came from. the viewer. And, you know, this is probably a good place to land the plane because it really does

rhyme with something you said before. Your job as a coach is in some ways to get out of the way and let the players win the game. Well, if you got a podcast or you got a TV show or radio show or whatever, it is useful to remind yourself who you really work for, you know, from time to time. And it's not Alex. And it's not who's ever writing the mythical checks. It's the people who listen to you. and give them some latitude to help be a part of something bigger than themselves. Obviously, I'm not telling you anything you don't know. It's coaching 101, but I think it's pretty great that you're taking those lessons and sprinkling it around in a non-celebrity way.

You know, I'm with you. Chuck loves celebrities. God bless them. You know, every now and then we'll have a Tim Allen on here or at Jay Leno, and numbers do a little jump, and that's great. But by and large, we're singing out of the same hymn book. you and me. Yeah, I think we said earlier, we really are cut from the same cloth mentally. And I appreciate you saying all the kind things you've said and helping us get the word out. And

who knows, man, maybe it will work like you said. And it's worth a try. And I continue weekly to be inspired by these people who are doing phenomenal things. And I think if you listen, you will be too. I don't have an Academy Award, Bill. One of these, I don't, Can you see my Emmy okay in the background? You got an Emmy? I know you got Emmys. Yeah, let me see it. Where is that thing?

It's a thing. Wait, where? Got it handy. That's it. You know what I use it for? I use it to hold this, it's basically a trailer hitch. Some guy made me with my foundation on it. I love that trailer hitch.

That's bad at the bone. Yeah, it is. Anything else you want my army of abnormal people to know? I do. I want the next time I'm in the central northern California area to have a Manhattan made from that singing whiskey of yours with you. Singing whiskey. Whatever that stuff's called. The nobleman.

Yeah, that stuff. The singing whiskey. There it is. Yeah, I want you to make me a Manhattan out of that whiskey one day. Can we do that? It shall be done. I can do that. Yeah, in fact, I got a bottle with your name on it.

I can't wait. I love it, Mike. Thanks for having me. Bill Courtney, you're a hell of a coach. You're a hell of a guy. Thank you for making the time. Honestly, I could talk to you all day. You're welcome back here anytime. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Great. So who's been backing up for the last hour and a half? Do you hear that beeping?

Out here? Beep, beep. Hey, it's a lumber yard. There's forklifts and stuff. I'm not kidding. I mean, it's a real live... There's stuff going on out here. If you leave some stars, could you make it five, and before you go, could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars, could you make it five, and before you go, could you please subscribe? If you leave some stars, could you make it five, and before you go, could you please subscribe?

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