The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 354: Coffee with Mom—They Like a Little Bit of Naughty with America's Grandmother

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Peggy chides her eldest for spending too much time in the sun, then they discuss book clubs and pool sharks, Peggy's latest borderline inappropriate post, Mike eating dates, geoducks and horses, Picasso vs Cezanne, a briss gone wrong, used condoms in an elevator shaft, a little paregoric on the gums, how Peggy discovered Mike was circumcised, and a tease about her espionage court case. In other words, another Coffee with Mom!

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Sometimes you look kind of like Tonto. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Is that politically incorrect? I'm just saying... I don't know. I don't think so. Tonto was a, he was kind of a hero. He was a good guy.

Oh, absolutely. He was the lone ranger's sidekick. Kim Mosebby. So I don't look like the lone ranger. You're saying I look like Tonto from time to time. Well, I was just saying that, you know, he has darker skin being a Native American, and your skin sometimes looks like that. I just had to go down to the cleaners.

And on my way back, I passed two people who had several band-aids on their face and forehead. And they have both been to the dermatologist, and they both said the same thing to me. Who knew way back then that the sun could damage our skin? And so they both had some kind of minor surgery, and I just thought I'd pass that on. I appreciate it. To be honest, I passed two or three people on the trail today. One guy introduced himself and had to be. Half his right ear was missing.

And he had bandages all over his face. I didn't ask him what was up because, you know, I just met the guy. You hate to pry. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm sure he's getting precancerous melanomas carved off of his face. It's just, I don't know. It didn't seem like a good thing to jump into from a conversation starter from my point of view. And I'm, you know, I'm not sure it's a great way to get into this conversation.

But here we are. We're doing it. We're talking about skin tags. and cancers cut off of our bodies. I had a friend who had a horse, a little gray mare, and she only had a half of an ear because of sun damage. I think probably... The friend or the horse?

The horse. The horse was, it's called gray, but looked white, you know. And the white horses have paler skin, I believe, and they're more susceptible to skin cancer. Are you kidding me? Are you making this up? a horse got half its ear removed from skin cancer? Actually, I think it was both ears, half of both ears.

The tips, like, halfway down, were missing because, you know, when horses are angry, they put their ears back, and then you know to be careful and stay away from their rear end and maybe even their face. And this horse always looked angry because he only had half ears. It looked as though his ears were back. Anyway, Dad has an appointment next Tuesday, and he, he has to have a little pre-cancerous thing removed from his cheek. So that's not a real pleasant conversation, is it?

Well, it's not bad. I mean, he's getting it removed. It's been identified. We've targeted it. Steps are being taken, right? I mean, it could be much worse. It could always be worse. Sure.

His dermatologist is very proactive and, you know, she's very cautious. Well, what possible good would a dermatologist, just be if they weren't proactive? Well, you know, I think they probably get paid just as much money, whether they take it off or not. I could be wrong. I don't know. I mean, that sounds kind of mercenary, but anyway, yeah, we like her.

We've been going to her for years and we trust her. Well, what's her name? Why she give her a plug? Her name is Dr. Nadine Akri, A-C-R-I. She's here in Baltimore. Great. So for people who are listening from Baltimore, if there's this suspicious mole, skin tag, something that just looks an age spot, whatever, give old Nadina a ring. Nate Akri, is it?

Dr. Akri, yes. She's fairly young. She has dogs, a couple of dogs. She's married. They have a boat, and I kid that dad and I have bought that boat for her. Paid for one of the boats. We filled the guest. tank litigation at least. But that's all right because, you know, that's called pre-enterprice,

and that's what happens. Of course, one minute you're getting something removed from your face, and the next minute you're filling up your tank with diesel. Exactly. And life goes on. Oh, by the way, Dad really likes that book you sent him about diesel. Oh, I'm glad. You know what? We're going to have the author on the podcast, probably in a month or so. Yeah. Oh, well, be sure to tell Dad about it, because because he's finding it interesting. In fact, he reads it aloud to me in bed at night sometimes. What a treat that must be.

Well, I'm about a third of the way through it. I've been listening to it. I listened to a chunk of it this morning on my ill-fated walk where I met the man whose name I can't share who had half his ear removed while I was carrying 40 pounds of dead weight on my back. And it's a great book, folks. We're talking about a book called The Mysterious. What's it called, Chuck?

The mysterious disappearance of Rudolph Diesel. Right. And it's by a guy named Doug Brunt, who's a terrific writer who happens to be married to a woman named Megan Kelly, who you may know of, Mom. You up to speed with Megan Kelly these days? I don't know if I know about her latest dramas, but I know who she is and where she used to work. And yeah, I know that. Well, she's on fire. And she's a very pretty woman.

She's very attractive one. She is. And she's very smart. She's a lawyer. Used to be anyway. Reformed lawyer, you know, and she got a big deal at Fox, and then she left, and then she went to NBC and had a big deal there. And that went all sideways.

And they wound up, I think they fired her. There was some dispute. Anyhow, she just went out and started her own thing. And now she has one of the biggest podcasts in the world. Millions of people love her. And I was listening a month ago. she interviewed her husband, which I guess, you know, when you have your own thing, you can get your well, look at me. I got my own thing and I got my mother on. And you've written books too. So

it's all relevant. But this book is so interesting because this guy, diesel is so misunderstood. And in fact, he's so, he's barely acknowledged, but he should be right up there with Thomas Edison and the Wright brothers. His contribution, the diesel engine changed the world. So I, I heard that interview, I thought Dad would love it, ordered the book for him when I was there with you a couple of weeks ago. I'm glad he got it. And now Doug's going to come on the podcast, and I want to make sure Dad listens to that because I know he probably has some feelings about Megan that he could share with his friends there at the home, and the circle will be complete. Okay. The problem is, Dad belongs to the men's book club. It's called Guys Read 2. And every month. What a low bar.

How do they come up with that name? Well, because there used to be only one book club here, and it was mostly women, but there are men here who love to read also. But the books that they chose were appealing to women and not always to men. So they named this book club Guys Read too, and it has a lot of guys in it. But the problem is, Dad cannot always read the books he wants to read because he has to read these books that are assigned. that they're going to be discussing at their monthly meeting. How do they decide? How do they decide what to read? I mean, that would be such a drag to be forced to read a book you don't want to read.

Exactly. Well, all of the members have their favorite books, and they recommend them. And if you recommend a book, then you lead the discussion that month when they talk about that book. And everybody has read it. So, Dad's done that several times. How do they choose? Do they vote on the books, you know, the people who've recognized? recommended books, do they vote on them? Or is the leader of the pack the guys, too, does he decide? I'm not sure. I think, Chuck, the other way to ask it is, like, how do you get in the club? Do you have to be voted into the club? Because if you're voted into the club, then on the strength of that, the recommendation for the book is sort of a, right, just a de facto thing. You're in. People aren't

going to dispute your choice. So they either have to dispute you, the person, or the book, if there's going to be any dispute at all, I would think. But if you have 10 people in the club and 10 people recommend a book, how do you decide which one? Then you read all 10 books and you get through them in less than a year. See, this is why there's such a fine line between like a hobby and homework. This is how so many good ideas completely craft a bed, mom. You're just like every, so you love to read and you think I'll join a book club and suddenly you're getting some awful tome shoved down your throat by somebody with no taste. Yeah. That has happened. In fact, one month, Dad said, this is so bad. I'm not even reading it. He just didn't go to the meeting. That can happen.

I mean, are there consequences for recommending a real turd? There should be. Well, I think probably people's reactions are pretty obvious when you go to the meeting and you're the only one there. Or, you know, there's just a lack of interest. But here's an interesting thing. It's called Guys Read too. but there's a woman who shows up from time to time. I don't know that she comes every time, but she... Would she do? She reads too, I guess. She makes the sandwiches.

She sweeps the floor afterwards. A sexist would say. Her name's Nadine and she cuts off suspicious skin tags. It's part of the value ad. No. Her name is Jeanette and she throws a ball at you if you've done to your job. How about a callback? Nice.

How is Jeanette? Is she still upright? Or as upright as upright as you get? I'm sure she's doing okay. I haven't been to that group lately. I've been busy with a book. To the chair volleyball group. To the chair volleyball.

They play on Wednesday evening, I believe, at 7.30. You know, I've just been so busy. I write all day. And then in the late afternoon and evening, I'm dads. I do what he wants to do. If he wants to shoot pool, I shoot pool with him. If he wants to play shuffleboard, we might go to a movie. we do something together usually.

Every day. Not quite every day because on Wednesdays and Saturdays, he plays shuffleboard from 6.30 to 7.30. And Wednesday afternoon and Saturday afternoon, he shoots pool with two old ladies here. And they're really good. Guys shoot pool too. Yeah, exactly.

Their names are Shirley and Elaine. And they would like for me to come play. Sometimes I do, but usually. I'm too busy. Yeah, dad's not without resources. So you're okay with him down there in the pool hall with two older women? I am because, you know, he's totally devoted to me. I never, jealousy has never been a problem in our marriage. I am never jealous of dad. He's never jealous of anything I do. That's a fact. So what's the secret to that? In the off chance, people are still listening to this, hoping to glean some actual wisdom from America's grandmother. What is it about

jealousy and the fact that there was so little of it in your marriage? Because a cynic might argue that a lack of jealousy is simply a reflection of apathy. But I don't... A lack of interest. Which we know is not true based on your latest post, which I'm happy to say is borderline inappropriate. Oh, my goodness. I think you might be right. I didn't mean. for it to be. I just passed Jim in the hallway before I had gone to the cleaners and on the way back. Jim was getting on the elevator and I was getting off and he follows me religiously. He's a really nice guy. Around the halls? No, on social media. A lot of people here do. I get a lot of comments and he said, oh, I just read your post. And I said, yeah, I said, should I be wearing sunglasses?

he said you might want to think about it. Do you have it, Andy? My post? Well, I have my cell phone here. All right, well, it's probably on there. You know, Facebook has been kind of wonky lately. Don't even get me started, Mom. I just went, I had such a fit this morning with Twitter.

I called poor Sherry, who you love, and I was kind of mean. Oh, she's wonderful. She's great. But I'm so sick and tired of living in this myasol. of usernames and passwords and authentication codes and double authentication codes and multiple social accounts and God knows how many credit cards and bank accounts and all the passwords. I was just saying to Chuck earlier, this is how they're going to get us with the chip, right?

They're just going to come along one day and say, look, it's a chip. We just put it in your teeth or your eye or in your elbow, and you never have to go anywhere again with a wallet or a purse. You never have to memorize, you know, a password or try and recall a username. You don't need any of that. You just scan it, the DMV airports, everything, everything. That's how they're going to get us. Chuck said you had a rough morning.

I think you were right, Chuck. Yes. I think you did. Well, the business with Facebook, they're making me sign in. Every time I go on to check something or respond to a comment or two, I have to give my phone number. I have to give my password. Well, that's kind of a nuisance.

Why? That's a new thing? Because it's not that way for me. Oh, it is. Oh, it's new for me. Now, I don't know about other people. Go ahead. I'm getting ramped up.

I don't want to make this about me. Tell me about your problems. I don't have any problems, and I just found my post. Do you think it's suitable to read over the airwaves? Well, you thought it was suitable to share with $250,000. of your little Facebook friends, so go ahead. Let's hear it. They're taking it in slightly different way.

Let me know how you think I meant this. Okay. First of all, describe the pictures that accompany the post. Well, here's a picture of dad standing in the living room looking at his iPad. He's dressed very Natalie in a aqua-plud, white shirt, and brand, new genes that fit him perfectly, which is not an easy feat to accomplish. And in the second picture, he's standing at the foot of the bed. I'm lying on the bed, and you can only see my feet, and he has one of those resistance

bands around my foot that we were given in physical therapy. I have arthritis in my feet and hips. All right. Here we go. It's only 150 words. All right. I'll settle in, folks. I'm 85 years old. It's unnatural to have these romantic feelings, but really, when your husband looks so good in his new genes, what's a wife to do? I hope it's not TMI, but at 85 and 90, it takes us longer than ever to leave our bed in the morning.

It's my favorite togetherness time. Yes, it's exhausting, but worth every breathless groan. I can only hope that Al and Stephanie downstairs can't hear us. Nice pelvic thrusts, hon. Tighten those abs. Now a buttock squeeze. Yes. Can you lift your legs a little higher? Great.

Now squeeze the ball between your knees. Can you give me a little more resistance, hon? A little more. Oh, nice. That's just right. Nothing satisfies that need for intimacy all day long, quite like morning exercise. give it a try.

So isn't it obvious to you that I'm talking about exercise, a workout? Oh, yeah. Super obvious at the end. Super obvious, yeah. It's absolutely a workout you're describing. Okay. Is that what the kids are calling it these days? That's exactly what they're calling it.

Then there's no shame here. A lot of people are liking him. I bet they are. They're getting ideas. Do you care about likes and clicks and shares and comments. I mean, I think I know the answer. It doesn't determine my mood for the day,

if that's what you mean. I can still survive if something doesn't get a lot of likes. I do pay attention because it tells me how people feel about my posts and I am a writer and I'm doing a book. So if I see that people

just go crazy over I write about date night, about dad and me and how maybe once a month. We have a date night. We go to dinner together and then we see a movie and, you know, I'm all about humor and I, there is a lot of humor. People love it and I get more likes. I get more shares and more comments for those posts than any. That tells me that people like relationship stories. It tells me that they've got an inner eight-year-old and that they've got an inner eight-year-old and

they like just a little bit of naughty. They like a little innuendo, you know. They do like a little bit of naughty. Yeah, not too much. You know, you're 85 and your audience is, you know, a little different than mine. And certainly it was different than what the Dirty Jobs audience was. But how do you know if you've gone too far? Do you ever feel like you've written something and put it out there that you'd like to take back because it was just a little, just a little too much? Not yet. No. Because you've sent me half a dozen saying, Michael, is this in good taste? Michael, do you think this is too much?

Michael? I don't know if you remember, but my old bosses at Discovery had files on their desks filled with complaints from viewers and sponsors and just an army of angry acronyms who were always watching the show just to be offended if I went a little too far in one direction or another. Like you're talking about dates. I did a stand-up once at a date farm. Do you remember this? A date farm, vaguely.

This is not a farm where people take their date. It's a farm that grows. No. It's like date palms, right? It's like, so the job was pollinizing date palms. So they grew the dates faster, the dates that you eat, right? Like majewell dates, I think this company was. Chuck, do you remember this? I don't recall it.

I was just biting my teeth. tongue with the dates that you eat. Well, that was the whole point. I walked toward the camera holding a box filled with dates. And as I was taking bites of the date, I was talking to the camera about how satisfying a good date could be in your mouth and how unsatisfying a bad date could be. Some dates, I said, go down easier than others. And some dates, the minute you put them in your mouth, you realize this is just not going

to work out for me, right? And you know at that moment the date is probably over. But because you're a gentleman, you just keep eating it, right? You just keep eating that date. Because once you start a thing, you don't want to stop it. And people complained? Oh my God. I mean, how it got on the air is still a bit of a mystery because all hell broke loose. I mean, angry calls the production. Well, it started with the network and the network called the production. company and the production company ultimately called me and I'm like what were you thinking? I'm like what do you mean? What was I thinking?

I was eating a literal date as I was talking. And they're like, you talked about a date getting stuck in your throat. Do you realize what? I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just a guy eating dates. And so, I mean, this is so stupid. It is so childish, infantile, immature. But, you know, it kept the conversation.

on its feet. Well, people are still raving, raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest Pure Talk commercial. And if you haven't seen it, I encourage you to give it a look on my Facebook page and read the comments. They're hysterical. In this commercial, you'll not only see Peggy Roe gently criticizing her oldest son for his longstanding and well-established commitment issues, you'll learn about the latest

offer from Pure Talk, which includes. Unlimited Talk, Text, and Data for just 3499 a month with no contracts and no commitments of any kind. You can see why I love these guys. If, on the other hand, you have better things to do with your time, then watch my mom and me be impossibly charming together, then allow me to remind you, here, without all the cleverness and charm, that unlimited talk, text, and data, on a blazing fast network for just 3499 a month, really is an unmitigated bargain from an American. American Wireless Company that keeps all their customer service in this country, supports our veterans in a meaningful way, as well as the MicroWorks Foundation, and allows me to exploit my own mother in a national advertising campaign. Do what my mom did. Get yourself unlimited high-speed

data for just 3499 a month at PureTalk.com slash row. You can switch in as little as 10 minutes at puretalk.com slash row. The problem is that show had two audiences, kids who loved it. And you satisfied them and spoke to them. And then on a whole other level, you spoke to adults. And kids just took you literally. But adults heard something else. They took it to the naughty place.

They really did. Michael, do you remember these shows? show you did about gooey ducks? I thought that was way over the line. I mean, you had show and tell. Well, I won't go into detail, but it was almost embarrassing for me to watch. If you don't know what we're talking about, folks,

gooey ducks are spelled G-E-O-D-C-S, their giant clams. They look harmless enough in their resting state, but when they're fully elongated, mom, I think it's fair to say that resemblance. Tongue like a giraffe. Or a horse. I mean, the difference between a fully extended gooey duck and a male horse's member,

there is no difference except a horse is attached to one and not the other. Remember, I walked toward the camera in the beginning of that episode, and I had a gooey duck in my jacket pocket. And I just walked up to the camera and said, is that a gooey duck in your pocket? Were you happy to see me? And we got that on the air, right? I was pretty proud of that.

A couple of disapproving emails, but not too many, really. But you held one, and really, it was more human than horse, and you held it. It was filled. And then all of a sudden, it shot off the fluid, and then it fell. Well, I don't know how that got on the air. I mean, Dad and I thought it was really funny, but... Go back to the part where you think that more resembled a human than a horse. And tell me more about the humans, you've...

run across in your 85 years of experience? Well, mostly because of position, the one that you were holding was upright and the fluid came out of the top with a horse. Well, sure. It's downright. We're talking about this thing was four inches in diameter and about a foot long. Oh, yeah. Well, anyway. You know what? Get that in here for a minute. I got it. Oh, my gosh. I want to see something. Oh, no. I got questions. He won't hear you, honey, because I'm using my Bluetooth ears just as well. Tell me about the book. How is it coming?

Because I'll tell you what happens. Every time you come on this stupid podcast and we talk about this, I get all kinds of mail on Facebook from people who are literally asking when the next book is coming. They've not only read your last three, but they've memorized them. And they're drumming their fingers and they're waiting. And you're 85 and they're getting nervous. they want you to just get it out there and then do it again. So, I mean, are you being distracted by dad too much with all of your antics,

with your exercise equipment in the bedroom and whatnot? Are you getting it done? First of all, people's reactions are so complimentary. You know how that feels when people come up to you and say, all right, so I've read your first three books and I keep reading them over. When is the next one coming? I am working on my next book and I work every day at it. But I have a challenge here that I've never had with my other books.

This book is kind of about our lives here at the home and the people that I've met. And there are so many stories here. I can't begin to tell you funny stories, sad stories, stories that are surprising and almost unbelievable, touching stories. I can't identify everybody that I'm writing about because some people probably wouldn't want me to write about them and not everything I write is complimentary. Yeah, tell me about it.

So I have to be very careful, you know, not to hurt feelings or not to encourage a lawsuit. And are you worried if you change names? that people will still know who you're talking about? They will in some cases. Yeah. Well, what about the story we talked about the other day, which I mean, I've been thinking about it ever since we spoke,

and I think it has the potential to be one of the best things you've ever written. Can I tease people without giving too much away? I guess you can. So, Chuck, my mom was actually sued years ago for espionage, literally for spying. by whom and I don't want to say too much I just want to tell you that I drove her to the courthouse and watched the proceeding it was one of the craziest lawsuits I've ever seen and she was without giving away too much she wasn't found guilty of espionage she wasn't found guilty of spying but she

kind of was and when this story comes out people are going to look at you in a whole different life if you have the nerve to write it as it happened. Yeah. That is quite a tease right there. I do. I do have the nerve to write it as it happened. From my point of view, I mean, that's the only point of view. That's the way you heard it.

Exactly. That's all you got. And it's factual. It's true. I have dates and locations. Mm-hmm. Back to dates, huh? Back to dates.

But yeah, it'll be a good story. I hope I can do it justice. I've been working on it now for weeks. I'm a slow writer, and it's funny, I can write something. I can spend all day on it, and by evening or late afternoon, I think, all right, this is really good. I'm very pleased with it. I've accomplished something.

The next morning I get up and I sit at the computer, and I read what I wrote the day before, and I say, this is total crap. This is useless. So maybe not total crap, but writing is so much about rewrites and revision. That's where the real writing happens. It's not what you get down initially, although that's important. It's how you bring it home that counts. Well, what do you enjoy more?

Finishing the first draft or just messing with it? Oh, I'd love to mess with it. Yeah, I'd love to revise it. Yeah, because you can go in so many different directions. It's fun. And, you know, even if I did not have a publisher, I would still write. I mean, I did write for many years. No kidding.

You only did it for 60 years. Without a publisher. because it's such a challenge. Did you know that people who love to write are also people who love to do puzzles? They love to put things together because writing is about juxtaposing things, statements, sentences, little stories,

putting them together in a way that they make sense. And that's what puzzles are all about, you know? Yeah. Most of what I've been writing, you know, for the last few years have been stories for this podcast and then for the TV show that it's based on and so forth. And those things, because their mysteries are even more puzzle-like in their format. And that's why, I mean, I drive Chuck crazy because Chuck wants him done.

He gets very excited when he thinks it's done. He says, great, just send it to me. And then he tries to book a recording session immediately. Because once it's recorded, it's like done, done, right? And then it goes off to the production company. And I can't do much with it anymore. I really am so suspicious now. I mean, Chuck, just that one the other day, I read it to you, I really liked it, you hated it, right?

You didn't hate it, you just didn't get it. Yeah. Right? And so I was like, oh, what the heck? And I had to mess with it and mess with it some more. And there's no doubt in my mind, it's now actually one of my favorite ones ever. I love the story so much. I just find it almost impossible to close the book on it.

You know, it's still in that file that I keep that basically says almost done. And then I realize, you know, there is no file that says done. So I'm never done. I'm never done. The stories that, especially the stories that I see on the story behind the story, are done. They have a beginning and a middle and an end. And they have a through story and they are complete at the end. I think they feel that way too because you're looking at visuals.

You know, those things have been turned into TV shows, and it feels way, way more deliberate than it does. If you're just listening to them on the podcast, they feel just so intentional. I hope we've got some news. I mean, I know we have a new season. I'm going to Colorado next week, actually, the week after, to record season four with Matt. But we also have seasons five and six in the can.

and they're working on the recrees now for season five, they just keep ordering them. It's crazy. I'm writing as fast as I can, and they just keep ordering them. So when you say they're in the can, that means that you have finished writing them? I've finished writing them, and I've recorded them on camera.

So I've gone to the empty theater, and I've sat in the empty theater, right? And I've looked right to the lens and delivered the whole story. Then it goes to the production company. and then they start casting actors, and then they start figuring out how to shoot it. And that takes months. I mean, they've hired, I think, over 700 actors

in the last five seasons. It's unbelievable. It just keeps going and going. It's just like the best show that no one's ever seen over on TBN. We might have an announcement regarding a different home for it as well, but stay tuned for that. Anyway, I'm writing again, Mom. I'm writing every day.

He is, which is very good. But let me just say this about it, Peggy. When he talks about it in the can, once it's videotaped, then it's in the can. But really, right up until the minute that it happens, you know, he's rewriting right there in real time and telling, you know, the teleprompter guy, change this, change that. It happens right up into the last second. You can't get there fast enough for me. You know, I believe it, Chuck.

I remember one day John and I went over to a bookstore, I think it was Barnes & Noble, and I always get a kick out of looking for my books there. I know. That's a little creepy, isn't it? But I do. And I picked up one of my books, and I opened the page, and I'm reading, and I'm thinking, I could have said that better. Right.

I should have gone here with this. You are never satisfied, you know, even if it's... published and people have read it and you would still like to make changes. So I don't think that's too unusual. That last trip, Chuck, that was a bad one, actually. We were in where Oklahoma recording like three seasons. Like I had seasons four, five, and six all needed to be recorded on camera. What happened, Mom, is the show kind of blew up and they realized they wanted a lot more stories. So we went back to the beginning to look at some older stories that I'd written five years ago that we thought might work. And I hadn't looked at those, you know, in a long time. They were on

the podcast years ago, but I, you know, I think there was just, they're still out there. But now suddenly they're going to be made into a TV show. And the night before, you know, I'm sitting down, actually on the plane coming in and then, you know, the more I looked at them, the more I hated them. I mean, I hated them. There was some stuff that is, is out there in the library now and just reading it again five years later. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Some of the them were really tight and good, but virtually all of them I messed with, and some of them I had to tear apart, like, completely. Is it a different story if you're going to video it or show it on camera than it is written? Because, you know, screenplays are different from books. Yes. What makes this

also weird? And Chuck, I know you've got something to say about this, but I never wrote them for the screen. I wrote them for radio. I wrote them to be heard. Originally. I wrote them to be heard, not to be seen. But Matt, to his credit, heard them and saw them in his mind's eye. Now, to my credit, that's what I wanted you to do. I wanted your brain to fill in the blanks because, you know, your imagination is way

more powerful than any director can hope to compete with. But Matt wanted to see them, literally brought to life. And so he started doing them, and he proved that it could be done. He proved you can take this interior monologue in some cases and put it up on the screen, and it worked. So that's kind of how it started. But then when we started looking at them, I realized there were so many instances where I had put the director in a corner, unknowingly, just by writing in a way that was very hard to shoot. And sometimes the reveals at the end were very difficult to film without screwing the whole thing.

thing up or giving it away. And so then when I, when I started writing more stories, I started to think about, okay, well, is that going to work on the screen? And that makes Chuck crazy because he doesn't, he doesn't think I should think in those terms. But you have to. And if you're well, that's where I disagree with you. Obviously, you don't have to. You didn't before. And they turned them into really good visualizations. And so I think you tell the best story you can, perspective of what you think the visual might be, and let that be the director's problem. Let him figure out a way to do it. He did before. There's one that I'm thinking of visiting hours is one that is, you know, he solved that problem and it's spectacular. It's going to be

spectacular. Hasn't come out. Yeah, we haven't seen that one yet. That is a good story. I am happy with that one, too. I really like them. I mean, you know that. Dad and I both do. We sit on the So we watch those shows. We try to guess who the person is, you know, if it's somebody that we know. Do you ever watch them in bed when you're working out? We don't have a TV, hon, in the bedroom. Oh, no? We don't need any unnecessary distractions.

Who needs a TV in the bedroom? We make TV in the bedroom. Yeah, right. Do you know the rumination on artistry and completion vis-a-vis Cézanne and Picasso? Have we talked about that before? I have no idea what you just said. Okay.

All right, so this is interesting. I mean, I think it's interesting, but I'm guessing the dozen or so people still listening will agree. Cézan and Picasso, arguably, two of the greatest artists of all time. Malcolm Gladwell does a whole thing on this, and I think there's a lot of truth in it, because what he tries to determine is whether or not

not your Cézon or Picasso. In terms of the way you work, Picasso was incredibly prolific. And when he painted, he painted quickly, and when he was done, he walked away from it. He took the canvas down. He put it where he put it. He picked up another blank canvas and he went to work. He never went back. He just didn't do it.

He created a huge body of work. that's where his greatness was rooted. Cézahn, on the other hand, never finished a painting. Even after he sold them, he was known to go to the buyer into the home and tweak it, a sunflower here, a shaft of light there. He was never, ever finished. He went through constant versions. And if you look at musicians through that same lens, you'll find them.

Leonard Cohen, who wrote a very famous song that you've heard of. You don't know his name probably, but you know, Hallelujah. Of course I know, Hallelujah, and I know Leonard Cohen. Oh, good for you. Well, not intimately, but... D-Dum. I love stories like this. Seven years ago, a guy named Ben Still was a musician.

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No. The version you know is version 500 and something. The versions you haven't heard are incredible. And Malcolm plays a few, right? And you can hear. Like, there's almost nothing in common with the version you hear and what came out originally. Same is true with a guy called Elvis Costello, who I'm sure you've never heard of. Of course I've heard of Elvis Costella.

Jeez, Mike. These are Césons. These are people who just keep messing with their music, with their art, with whatever it is they do. And I just think it's really interesting. You are clearly a Cézanne. Hmm. Okay. I'll take that.

It sounds like we both are. Well, left to my own devices, I am. But I've been super lucky to have a lot of different plates spinning at the same. same time. And some of those plates, you can't afford it. You can't afford to mess with them. Like, if I'm going to go narrate an episode of Deadliest Catch, you know how long that takes me? That's an hour-long show. It takes me maybe 12 minutes. I just read it straight through. I read everything twice. They don't stop me much. There's not much to direct. I've been doing it 20 years. I know what it's supposed to sound like. Every now and then, there might be something in a sentence that I think is

grammatically awkward or it just feels funny in my mouth, you know, like a bad date. And so I'll redo that. But by and large, I don't try and make it better really because I don't have time. That's the beauty of the deadline. I hate them, but sometimes I can't get anything done without one, right? Well, you're blessed in that you probably get it right the first time in most instances. You know, when I went over to, what's the name of that place where I record the books? Clean cuts. Clean cuts. Clean cuts in Baltimore where, interestingly, Nadine, what's her name, could have an office given what she does as a dermatologist.

All right. Now, you're getting way off the beaten pan. I'm saying a clean cut could apply to a great many things. Oh, I see. See what I'm doing with words and language mom? I see. Could be a place for a moyle as well. But if you go too far afield, do you?

Too soon? No. Well, it distracts older people's thoughts if you go too far afield and they don't remember what they were going to see. Yeah, Mom's trying to tell a story about recording her book, and you just have everybody thinking about the tip of a gooey duck being unceremoniously removed by a Jewish ritual. What do they call it? It's the bris. Briss.

It's the bris. Dad and I went to a brisk one day. Our good friends invited us because their grandson was being circumcised, and the moyle was there. Well, don't you know, people who go regularly are pretty smart, and they know not to get too close because, you know, you don't really have to see that up close and personal. Dad and I got pushed up to the front row because we were new at this. Oh, God. And during the process, there was blood, and it spurted on our friend, Marvin is his name, on his face and on his shirt. And he got very pale, very white.

But he was all right. He held it together, and he did not drop the baby. So that was my one and only bris. God, I mean, it is extraordinary how the language can just go where it goes in the space of a minute. One minute you're about to tell us a story of recording something at Clean Cuts. And the next minute, Marvin is covered with blood from his grandson's penis. We were talking about Suzanne versus Picasso. Right. How do you know when you're done when the blood stops?

And we kind of decided that you and I are both Suzanne's because we're never finished. And I said that you are blessed in that you usually get it right the first time. I was reading my book, and there were two guys there. One, what do they call an engineer? He was right in front of me on the other side of glass, and he had all of these lights lit up on this board, and he was pushing this and pushing that. And then there was a voice in my ear from another town,

and he was the director, and he was telling me what to do. And I was apologizing because I had made a couple of mistakes. more than a couple probably on this page. And those two were so funny. They said, oh, my goodness, do you know one day your son read 65 pages without having to stop one time? And I probably had 65 repeats in a chapter. They said, you were amazing. I mean, people there could not believe how precise you were in your pronunciation and your inflection and your inflection and your

expression. They just were amazed and then I came in and so they knew I, you didn't get it from me. Well, I mean, that's nice to hear, really. I'm a very limited set of skills, but I do talk a lot and I've narrated a bunch of stuff. So like anything else, you know, you get, you know, it's a muscle. You know what, man, I think Chuck, you tell me, you've done your share as well, but is it, I mean, not a day goes by when somebody doesn't ask me, hey, you know, I've been. told I have a pretty decent voice. I want to get into the voiceover business. Where do I go to start doing that, right? And it's like, you want to be nice, but you also want to be honest. And the truth is, you have no shot. This is not going to happen for you statistically. It's

not going to happen. Don't waste your time. I've gotten to the point, really, where I'll sometimes say that. But really, if I'm trying to be somewhat encouraging, which is mom's superpower, Mom is encouraging. Maybe the greatest encourager of all time. But when it comes to advice for that kind of thing, to me, it's so much more about reading than it is about actually talking. I mean, you don't need to have a great voice. It helps to have a pleasing voice.

You certainly don't want to have an annoying voice. But it's really more about reading and being able to read out loud, accurate. and quickly. It's like, you don't practice talking. Practice reading out loud. Right. And make it sound extemporaneous like you're thinking it and saying it for the first time. That's it. Right. It's all part of the lie, Mom. It's the giant lie that hangs over our whole industry like an umbrella. It's the same thing with a teleprompter. The prompter is there, and the people who are good at it practice and practice to the point where it doesn't look like they're a reading or sound like they're reading. But of course they are. It's all designed to fake the viewer

or the listener into thinking that the thoughts are coming out of your mind extemporaneously. That's almost never the case, but holy cow, when it is, those people are really a treat to watch. For me, anyway, but they're few and far between. Cedaris can do it on stage. Well, it's interesting that you say that because, you know, I work out on the new step. It's an exercise machine that exercises your arms and your legs. And while I'm doing it, I have my AirPods in. I listen to podcasts. David Sedaris is one of my favorite, and I listen to his books as I'm working out.

I call it working out, but I never break a sweat. And it's amazing how many mistakes he makes and how often he has to. to go back. I was listening to one yesterday. I think it was Cry Baby. Have you ever heard Cry Baby? Yeah, sure. Oh, it's a good story. It was from a magazine, probably the New Yorker. Well, he had a terrible time with a couple of sentences. He had to repeat them at least three times, and he's in front of an audience reading, and it was his work. And it made me feel really good, you know? David Sedaris is having trouble reading his own work. Well, that's kind of what I I didn't mean that he was seamless in it.

I mean that what makes him good on stage is that he doesn't pretend, like he doesn't have an ear-prompter. He's not trying to fool the audience in any way. He's literally reading from his book, usually, right? He's just reading from his book. And he's not there to impress. I mean, the book is there, the work is there. It speaks for itself.

And, you know, not all works translate well to being read orally. Most of his do. And that's what's unique about David Sedaris, you know. People pay thousands of dollars to go and see a man read from a book. I mean, the audiences are always packed. He's amazing. He can do 60 cities in like a week. Yeah, he loves it. And wherever he goes, it's packed. Do people tell you sometimes that when they read your stories, they hear your voice in their head? They do. That's complimentary. I love to hear that. That's one of the greatest things I think a writer can hear because that means they've established a, I mean, they've heard you speak in real life and it translates.

The real trick, Stephen King wrote about this years ago in a way that I really liked, where he developed in his mind an amalgam or a composite of all of his fans. And once he had that identity nailed down, he knew how to talk to them in terms of his narrative style. And he called that amalgam, God, what do he call? Oh, a constant reader. The constant reader. It's like dear constant reader. I think that's a really important thing for whether you're a Picasso or a Césawson.

on to have an understanding of who your fans are, whether you're a writer or a host or a newscaster, that thing starts to form in your mind. And when it does, for me anyway, I remember about seven or eight months into QVC, realizing I was talking to someone specifically. It was one person, but that one person was a combination of you and Chuck and all my friends and the audience that I imagined was out there, when that imagining starts to take a shape, then I think you get a new freedom and maybe a new permission to talk to them in a consistent way. How did he come up with that amalgam, Stephen King? I'm just curious about that. I think it was in on writing when he says that it happens when it happens, but only after a lot of

writing or a lot of talking or a lot of whatever it is you do. Chuck just mentioned 10,000 hours. I think that's another Gladwellism. Yeah. You know, the idea that when you look at people who make it look so easy, they're usually people who have been doing whatever it is they do for at least 10,000 hours. Like the Beatles. You know, the Beatles played for something like 10,000 hours in Hamburg throughout Germany and Europe, before they ever came over here. They were an overnight sensation. They were so young and so fresh and so different. They had been making little rocks out of big rocks for years doing the work.

And then they knew who their audience was. And then they sang to them. The reason I asked that about Stephen King, I've seen Stephen King speak. He's terrible. I shouldn't say terrible. he's not good. He's not effective as a speaker. No.

But as a writer, he rocks. How many circumcisions do you think that Moyette did in his life when you were there in the front row, looking at poor Marvin covered with blood? Was that a mistake? I've never been to one myself and I have no interest in going. I wonder if that guy had put his 10,000 hours in. Oh, he looked old, so I imagine he's been around a while. The Moyle did.

Yeah. He put a little thing over the tip of the subject like a thimble and then pulled skin through and just cut it off. Oh. But the baby was given. Paroen? Something like either paragonic or certainly not morphine, but maybe some paragonic. On a little cue tip, oh, my ear thing fell out. I don't get it.

I'll remember exactly where we were. Seared as it is. I'm trying to forget, but... It's in my retina. Sorry about that. Okay. It's back in. I know someone who lost the left one

down an elevator shaft. Twice. I bought a new pair, and the left one fell out again and went down the elevator shaft. Twice. Oh, I never wear these anywhere. I just, when I'm seated,

I put them in. I don't walk around with them. By the way, quick sidebar and apropos of nothing, except maybe it's tangential to what you. you're saying, Mom, but I cleaned an elevator shaft on dirty jobs years ago. A couple of them, in fact. And it is one of the most disgusting places you ever want to be is at the bottom of an elevator shaft. The number of condoms down there. It's breathtaking.

What? The number of condoms, Chuck, used condoms. Why condoms? Well, because people, when they're having sex and elevators are very responsible. So they wear a condom. And then when they're done, where do you put in? Please, in an elevator. They drop it down the hole. Yeah, they drop it down that little. I mean, I can see maybe if you get stuck for hours at a time, but otherwise. Or if you get stuck for five minutes at a time, really.

How to pass the time when you're stuck in an elevator? You know, there's a woman here who told me a story one day. She said she was out at the turtle pond, and her hearing aid fell out into the pond, and a turtle ate it. Well, Dad's hearing aids looked like cashew nuts. It was gone. She never did get it back. So I told this story as part of a post one day. I thought it was kind of funny, but some woman took exception.

She said, that poor Turtle, what do you think he's going through? I don't know, but he can hear everything. Turtle's got 20-20 hearing. I know. Oh, we do go down the rabbit hole, don't we? So Paragoric was being administered. Oh, a little spot of Paragoric on his gum because initially the baby screamed. They put the Paragoric on his gum. I'm assuming it was that. I don't know. And he immediately stopped screaming. Looked happy. That stuff works really fast.

Make a note of that, Chuck. Paragoric. I'm not familiar with that, Paragoric. I was a long time ago. It's probably been improved on. It's some sort of calming agent, right? Paragoric, I think it's an acid, actually, and I think you give it to children for pain. I would think so.

It's just the thing before removing the tip of their penis. Just the thing to take the edge off. Michael. Michael, language, honey. You're not supposed to say those words on your podcast. Paragoric or camphorated tincture of opiose. is also known as tinctura opi camphorata is a traditional patent medicine known for its anti-diereal antitusive

and analgesic properties. What does antitusive? Antitusive mean. I don't know, but it's a good word. If you're against twosives, if you're really opposed to. Never cared for them. Never cared for them. No tussov in my house.

Last thing we need in these divided times is another tusif. I got a tooth of peer and a tooth appear. So was there ever any doubt that I was going to be circumcised? I was your first child. Was there a discussion about this? I was just so, well, you know, I won't say ignorant, but I just didn't have a clue. And Janet came in to the hospital to see me, my sister,

because I was in the hospital for three days because you were a rather large baby. And back then that's what they did. It's that head of his, am I right? Exactly. She said, has he been circumcised? And I said, I don't know. How do you tell?

So we removed his diaper and Janet said, oh, yeah, I had a little piece of gauze wrapped around. And she said, he has been. And I said, well, nobody asked me if they should do that. Wow. But they just do it. I think, I'm sure there are perhaps medical reasons. I don't know. Oh, come on.

What do you mean you don't know? You're a woman of the world. You're 85 years old. Well, now I am. But back then I was. in my 20s and I didn't know. You were like 13. No.

No. How were you? You were 26, 27? Something like that? I think I was 24 when you were born. Oh, is that right? I was a mere child and dad was 29. Sounds like the phone's going off.

Sorry about that. It's probably dad, right? Yeah. Mom, we covered a lot of ground on this one, from Cézon to Picasso to blood spattered friends. Okay. enough of that. Me circumcised without even knowing it. You didn't even know I was bandaged up until your sister took off my diaper and said,

let's have a look at that thing or whatever she said. I wasn't there. Why I was there, I don't remember. No, she said, where is it? Oh. No, she didn't. I'm just kidding. She said, they were just supposed to take the tip.

Then she said, I know a really good lawyer. All right, we got to go. I love you. Yeah, I do too. It's almost dinner time. You do what? You love you too? No, I say, yeah, I have to go.

It's almost dinner time. Okay. All right. Well, I said I love you and you said I do too. Oh, I love you too. All right. How do you feel about Chuck? Be honest.

Oh, I love Chuck too. That's great. Yeah. Thank you. I love you too, Peggy. Oh, that's great. I'm so blessed. And we all love you for listening. God bless you for hanging in.

We'll be back before long. You think anybody's listening, huh? No. If you're listening, leave us a five-star review and tell us that you were listening. If you can figure out how to leave a five-star review, apparently it's easier said than done. Correct. If you can't figure out how to do that, buy one of my mom's books. They're still for sale.

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