The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 356: Travis Mills—The World's Biggest Therapist

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

The former 82nd Airborne Staff Sergeant and quadruple amputee drops by to chat about the first time he met Mike, how he pissed off Bill Nye science guy, why he's a proud member of the everything-is-great club, and his new book Bounce Back: 12 Warrior Principles to Reclaim & Recalibrate Your Life.

Hello, friends, Mike Roe here. It's the way I heard it, episode number 356. It's the world's biggest therapist with Travis Mills. Or is it the world's biggest therapist is Travis Mills? Which one's more declarative, Chuck? We should have worked this out before we started doing the preamble, don't you think? No, no. Study show people like to listen to us, figure things out in real time. They can't get enough of it. The world's biggest therapist is Travis Mills. I would go with that. All right. Well, you know what? You're in charge of production matters, so I'll let you deal with it. As you listen, friends, you can quibble, if you'd like, over the size of the therapist, but I don't think you'll disagree with the fact that some people are simply in a better position to dispense advice than others. Travis Mills, if you haven't already heard, he's been a guest on this podcast before. He's been a friend of mine for a while, featured in a on an episode of Returning the Favor a few years ago. Famously got a guest.

himself blown up in Afghanistan back when he was a staff sergeant and had the misfortune of dropping his backpack on an IED that was really there to disable a truck. Yeah, it was a big one. Yeah, he has some truck-like qualities about him. He's about as tough as they come. Anyhow, he lost his arms and legs and was one of the first quadruple amputees to not only survive but make it home. And that is really where his incredible story starts. What he's done since his injuries, it's kind of mind-boggling. He runs a very successful foundation for other wounded veterans and their families up in Maine. He's got various business ventures going on.

He's written a new book called Bounce Back, which we're going to dig into. I love an inspirational read. I love an inspirational documentary. but I get tired of them because there's so many of them. And then one comes along where the author really just has the receipts in every single way that matters. And that's what we have in our friend, Travis. Well, I think you said it before after we were done that you spend two minutes with

Travis and you're no longer aware that he has no arms or legs. And he gets the compliment a lot from people that he's the same guy he was before he got blown up. And I say he is the world's greatest lemonade maker, because if anybody got a bunch of lemons dumped on him, it was him in losing all four limbs like he did. But the attitude that he has, I mean, he just, you know, and his book mentions this about always moving forward, but he just keeps doing it. He puts one foot in front of the other, and of course they're made of titanium now, and he just

keeps going. And he's got a great sense of humor. He's got a great outlook on life. and he's grateful. You heard him say a couple of times that he was grateful for what he's got, his second chance at life. His book is really structured around 12 simple beliefs. You know, it occurred to me. It didn't come up in the conversation, but my foundation is structured on 12 basic beliefs. It's called a sweat pledge. Once upon a time, and the Boy Scouts, you know, the Scout law consists of 12 tenants. And how many are in the

alcoholic synonymous thing? 12 steps. Isn't that 12? I believe it's 12 steps. Yeah, 12 steps. 12 apostles. Everywhere you look, there's a dozen of something going on. Right? So this is the approach that Travis uses in his book. It resonates because that in and of itself is not original, but his story is. And my favorite part of this conversation, and I'm just going to, I mean, there's no need to put a hat on a hat, but I just, I just, just think it's super interesting to realize as he has that for all the inspiration, uh,

that he inspires and for all the gratitude that he has, those things can often be threats as well to people who don't want to get better. Yeah. And to people who, look, let's face it, man, we've all thrown our own pity parties from time to time. And no matter how good our cards are, there have been plenty of days where we pick them up and we look at him and we whine and we complain. Why aren't they better? Why aren't my cards better? If that's you, you could be very well threatened by Travis and his attitude because the boy just don't quit. He just keeps going forward. And if you ask him why, he'll tell you, because I got no other choice. Right.

Books called Bounce Back. It's terrific. And our conversation is a lot of fun, though full warning. You know, he lives not far from where that lunatic just shot up the town up there in Maine. And everybody's still a little shell-shocked. You know, people are still trying to figure out how to cope and what to do with that. And so how ironic that a book like this should come out at such a time. Bounce back. Travis Mills, the world's biggest therapist, which is how he no doubt feels from time to time. Right after this.

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Is that kombucha? You know what? This is like a mysterious mix. It's got a horse urine look, but it's tamaric. And it's just a long list of stuff. And I don't know why I'd do it. But you know what I just saw? I just saw a mosquito.

Hang on. one second because I can't... Wow. You don't run into many mosquitoes in California, really. You don't really be in the boonies for that. But look at this protector just out there. Ridden the world of mosquitoes. What a sweet guy.

Wouldn't that be amazing? Then what the birds eat, I guess. Did they have mosquitoes over there in Afghanistan? Yeah, they gave us malaria pills. I'll tell you something. Those malaria pills, methyloquine, I think they call it? Yeah. You got some crazy dreams.

Crazy dreams from them. Yeah. So they call it Mephyclin Monday. You got to take your pill on Monday. I didn't take them usually, but... I took them. I took them when I was in the Amazon, and they gave them to us.

And the dreams were lurid. Like they just, like, one after the next, after the next. I used to laugh with my buddy, because when I was on the drug, on the malaria drug, I dreamt of mosquitoes. Oh, well, I don't remember. I don't even remember my dreams, but I'm sure they weren't that great. But I remember they were bad enough where I didn't want to take them anymore, so I just quit taking them.

Somebody asked me in an interview once, what my favorite sound of all time was, and then what my least favorite sound of all time was. And my favorite sound was the popping of a champagne cork, right? I just think it's just a harbinger of festivity and optimism. The worst sound is that humming, that high-pitched vector, the misperature. mosquito is in your bedroom. You're about to drift off and he lets you know he's there. And now, what do you do? Do you get up and turn on the light and go on the giant snipe hunt for the mosquito? Or do you just say, look, I'm going to go to sleep knowing full well the thing's going to drink my blood? You know, as a child, I used to think if I smacked them really hard when they were trying to land on me,

that I would scare the other mosquitoes away. I would hit myself so hard trying to smack these mosquitoes. And after about three or four, I was like, oh, they're not getting the message, obviously. So I just hit, you know, as hard as I could. See, I thought the same sort of thing, except rather than to hit them hard, I just left them on my skin. I just left them smeared there like a skid mark as a warning to the other mosquitoes. Like a head on a pike. Exactly. Exactly like that, Chuck.

You know the last thing that goes through a mosquito's mind when he hits your windshield, right? His ass. Yeah. Thank you. this is true this is true I get it I get it but I appreciate taking the time by the way gentlemen

and doing this couldn't just you know catch up so if I look Haggard I just want to come clean with you guys well and we just had that mass shooting up here right like this is Maine it was like half hour from my house where that mass shooting happened with that crazy guy from Maine so he's

Card right was that his name yeah Robert Card yeah I didn't know him but yeah so Well, I'm... Good. Good. He was an Army reservist, right? Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Yeah, they were a half hour away. But you've seen that show, Northwood's Law?

Yeah. You ever see that TV show? Yeah, so Chris McCabe and Ethan Buck, they're both on that show. They're actually good friends of ours. Matter of fact, Ethan's wife works for us at the foundation, but they're good friends to Chris and Kelly as well, so they were over at Chris's house. And Chris McCabe was telling me kind of the breakdown of everything that happened with all that. I mean, the guy was found three, fourths of a mile away from where he parked that car at the boat launch. That's where he went and shot himself, you know. He was so close, but they searched everything and everywhere.

This took a weird turn. I'm sorry. How far was the scene of all that from where you are? From the foundation, about an hour, from my house, about a half hour, from my restaurant. You know, it was like 20 minutes. Wow. So what did that do to the community? Like when something like that happens,

whether you're an hour, a half hour, 10 minutes, or a day's drive away. Did it dominate every single conversation for the length of the event? Oh, definitely. Yeah, it dominates. It still has. I mean, we still talk about it, but it definitely took over a lot of people's attention span, but also, like, schools were canceled. You know, schools, like, way two hours away were canceled in Maine.

And, like, today, after they already found them and everything like that, they actually canceled, or they went a two-hour delay because the teachers had to get prepared to what to tell the students about what happened. And people weren't going out and I had to go to a meeting and Kelsey, my wife was like, you can't go to a meeting? I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, well, he's still out there. I'm like, no.

Like what? And people kind of just sheltered in place. There was like four towns that were told shelter in place and stuff. So it was crazy, but like the response though from all the first responders, you know, law enforcement and like I heard like 22 different things. tactical teams that came in. They brought on the team that was, I think, from Arizona, or the Border Patrol. They have a real special team that can, they're like a high profile. They find people, and they brought them in. And it was just insane for a while. But, you know, as the days went on, and then they finally found him in that shipping container.

You know, in your first book, I remember you wrote, or maybe it was in the forward. Somebody was talking about, maybe it was your commander about being, not having had a shower and feeling, like there was no wire. That was the expression, right? It's not like being on the other side of the wire. Yeah. There was no wire. You were in constant, unremitting readiness.

Constant. And I wonder if during that manhunt and in the wake of that killing, maybe the community had a similar feeling, right, of just, there's no wire. Oh, yeah. And you didn't know where it was at. The news is like, well, he's a weapons instructor. He's avid outdoorsman and very highly skilled. He could be anywhere, you know.

And it's like kind of that fear mongering in a way. But, you know, you got to be cautious. But like, I was on the trampoline with my kids. And my wife's like, you're going to go on the trampoline. I'm like, what are you, you know? Yeah, it's in the backyard. We're fine. And the thing is, like, I've realized in a lot of situations, I'm more callous than maybe I should be with the stuff with that.

Like, we had mass casualties happen overseas, you know, once a week, twice a week. So I'm like, oh, it's too. terrible. And it was like, why are you so calm about it? I'm like, oh, well, I mean, it's terrible. And we got to figure how to help the victims of the, you know, the families. And we also got to find this guy. But it was something we were used to overseas. And then, you know, the other thing I'm dealing with, like, my wife was like never lost somebody really close. That's in our age, like actual friend group, our age. And I've lost plenty of guys that, you know, said goodbye. And that was the last time, you know, last thing that I've been through it, I guess. So sometimes I feel like I'm not acting as sympathetic as I feel inside. So, you know, I really want to talk about this, Travis, and just say, like, we're into it now. But this is headline news. It kind of consumed the country for a while. And you and your friends had a front row seat to this. And I'm just so interested in, when you were overseas, in the worst of the worst of it, the human capacity to get used to almost any situation is incredible to me.

And I don't have any experience at all in combat overseas, but when I think about what people got used to during the lockdowns, and when I think about what you've gotten used to personally with the sudden and conspicuous absence of four limbs, right, over time, what happens to a community when there's a lunatic out there? And how long do you think people would have lived with fear an uncertainty before they just got on with their lives, knowing that this guy was still out there. How does that work? You know, I don't know, because I opened a restaurant since last time you came to Maine. My buddies and I opened a restaurant's doing very well.

And we shut down the day after everything happened, but then the next day, like, we're like, we have to open. We opened up, and I was going out to dinner, and I was like, man, I really hope people show up tonight. I'm not sure if they're going to. And it wasn't our busiest night by any means, you know, but people still. came out. People were tired of it. You know, they weren't going to sit inside and

be fearful anymore. So honestly, like a day and a half, people were just like, okay, we're kind of, we're done with this. Like, if it's going to happen, you know, we'll see what happens. But I was surprised when I saw all the people in there. Because, like, there's three other owners. We went and had dinner, me and

Kelsey and our friend who's the general manager, he's an owner, his wife, ate with us. And I was just like, man, I need to show my face if I expect people to come in here. I can't be sitting at home like, oh, I can't go out. So I think now people are okay once the body was found and things like that. But besides for that, you know, it dominated the news cycle and then all of a sudden you don't hear anything about it now. Now it's about like the gatherings for the families and the victims.

But I was surprised with the whole pandemic. I mean, I got kicked out of a morning place because I didn't wear a mask inside. And I was like, what? Are you kidding? A morning place. Like a breakfast place. Sorry. Oh, a morning place.

It's a place where you go. to get a morning. You know, it's like, it's a very morning feeling about it. The sun is shining. Right. But I'm saying, like, during the lockdowns, I was surprised how far people actually went with it. I mean, you live in California, so it may be different.

But like, this part of Maine's a little more red. So my little cafe I have at my marina, we didn't follow in the guidelines at first. So we had some people come in very upset with us because we didn't have masks on and stuff. And we're like, no, masks is in effect for Augusta and for Bangor and Portland and Lewiston. Like, this is Winthrop. Like, we don't have to do that. Well, you should be doing that.

I'm like, well, if you don't feel comfortable, you can go somewhere else. Like, you're more than welcome, you know. And then we had to finally comply with everything just because the threats of getting shut down and whatnot. So in California, they pulled a surfer out of the ocean who was surfing by himself. Yeah, yeah. The police came and said, made him get out. Well, I'm from Michigan, so I think everybody was told they had to stay inside, not go on the water until it was convenient for the governor's husband to want to go fishing. So they opened things up.

When did I talk to you last? Was it right after the withdrawal? Was it right after the Afghan? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It looks like we're getting pulled back into something right now. I got so many questions for you, man. What was that two years ago?

Was that before the lockdown or it was happening? My brain's all scrambled. Too much has happened in the last couple of years. It's been a bit. It's been a bit that's happened. Yeah, I don't remember. Because I mean the lockdown It was weird

It was not before the lockdown Right It was a It was the lockdown Then we withdrew from Afghanistan That was a disaster I thought what in the world Is my friend Travis think about this

We called you You came on our Our fledgling podcast And so I mean I was very open Like it was time We got out of Afghanistan You know We're not willing to do the job we have to do

You know To like do what we did in World War II And things like that Ever since World War II We haven't really won a war We've had conflicts But we never really have declared a victory you know, Vietnam and everything.

But no, it's been wild. And then mortgage rates are so high right now and everything. But I think come June, July, when it's come time to election, it's all going to come back down. So that's good. It was late August of 21. Sorry, right. Yeah, yeah.

That was when it was. So what are your thoughts when you look at what's going on in the Mideast right now? And what are the thoughts of your buddies who are still in the game, as it were? I mean, I think that everything with Israel going on. on, like, they're willing to go in there, root out all the Hamas and Hezbollah, which there's, like, no, we're done with this, and we're going to make them understand. People will talk about this. I think that's what Netanyahu said.

They're going to talk about it for years, like hundreds of years, how they ridded them, you know, ridded the world of who they are. So I think that's great. And then with Iran backing everything, us giving $6 billion, we're like, oh, well, it's only for food. Like, okay, so you give them money for food, then they take their money they had for food and give it. But, I mean, I think eventually they're going to end up just. bombing the oil fields, whether it's us or somebody else, and then they'll have to rebuild and we'll figure it out for that. But I'd probably get into politics. My wife said I can't do it.

What I think what she means is I've got to wait until my son's out of school. So he's only six. Yeah. Do that. Wait. Wait before you get political. But it does interest me, you know, I mean, as somebody who's been through what you've been through to pick up the newspaper and read the headlines and like how vested are you in it, how closely do you care about the geopolitical stuff versus, and I know this probably sounds ridiculous, but you bought a restaurant. You're living your life. The foundation is just on fire. You've raised, what, north of like $40 million now or something? Just about $40 million, yeah. Yeah. So the foundation is really well. I try not to get too involved with it. If I just keep the news off, there's nothing going on that's wrong, you know?

I know I'm supposed to care about stuff like that, but I also like, I have a wife and two kids. and we're fortunate to have over 100 people that work for one of my businesses I'm a part of. So those people depend on me to make sure they have a job to come to. And I depend on them to get the work done. And then, you know, the tradeoff is they can take care of their families and they're able to put food on the table and pay their payments and live comfortably and have a good life. So I try to focus more on that stuff. What drives me is knowing that people show up for me every day and I show up for them every day.

But you can't help be intrigued by what's going on. And I know that people are, there's a lot of buddies in mind, like, I'll go back in the service if we go back overseas, you know, and that's a weird thing, right? I just sent a TikTok. It was a skit with Will Smith joking around, but it was basically the caption was, what is it about us that we want to go back to like some of the worst conditions in living? And basically go back to Afghanistan and go back to fight. And I sent to like my military buddies because we all agree, like worse of times, best of times, you know? And we'd all go back, which is wild to me, like to go fight again. And I just, I don't know, maybe it's just who we are as a society here, ready to roll up or sleeve and get to work with if you have to.

Or maybe, maybe it's the purpose thing. Maybe it's the mission. Maybe it's having clarity to know that, okay, there's a problem. I'm part of a solution. And, I mean, what's better than that? Whether you're running a marina, starting a foundation, building a business, or defending democracy. It's a mission thing, maybe. You know, I've been very open with this new book I wrote Bounceback because the reason that I wrote it or I wanted to write it was because people kept asking me how I did it, right?

Like, oh my gosh, Travis, how'd you do it? How'd you get better? And I'm like, I had to. And that's the only thing I could tell them. Like, I had to tell them. Like, I had a choice to get better or don't, so I did. They're looking for something deeper. And what I decided was my story is unique in itself with being arms and legs. But there's people that have been through cancer and divorce and widowers and things like that. and they all have a story.

And I took some of their stories where they were at in life at the bottom, how they got out of it, and then took medical background to really explain the things I couldn't explain. I mean, I'm a doctor. I have three doctors, Mike. Congratulations, by the way.

They're honorary, but they count. And no, you don't got to call me a doctor, doctor, it's prestigious. It's normal what people do, but don't worry about it. But I took some medical background psychologists and studies and research papers and what different doctors say and try to make sense of everything

that we go through is people. And I wanted to make sure people understood like, you know what, no matter what you're going through, someone's probably been through that or something similar. And they've found a way to get out of there. And here's how you can get out of there because I was never really open with everybody about my lowest lows. I was always like, hey, I had my daughter, had to get better. And, you know, no matter how bad it was, Chloe was there. But, you know, one of my worst days I ever had. I was sitting at the edge of the bed in my in-laws house when I retired. And I mean, I retired. That's all I wanted. 19 months recovery. I was, I got to get out of here. And I got out. And Kelsey walked into the bedroom, and I'm sitting on the edge of bed and I'm crying. and like sobbing, like hyperventilating almost. Like emotions I don't show anybody usually. And she walked in and she was like, oh my gosh, what's wrong? And I was like, I don't know who I am. Like I'm not Staff Sergeant Travis Mills, leader of combat soldiers. At the hospital, I was somebody, right?

I was somebody that people looked up to, believed in, worked out with. I was a mentor. And then I retired and I'm sitting in Texas and I'm like, who am I? And I had to figure out who I was. And I found that giving back and speaking like I do. giving people purpose and direction, but also serving still in that capacity, since I couldn't serve my country anymore, was fulfilling. And I've been very blessed to have, you know, the ability to do the work that we do.

Like the foundation started with care packages. $5,000, Kelsey and I donated. And I haven't taken a dime ever, but where we're at now, sitting on 40-plus acres, bringing families in, showing them life goes on, as well as a post-traumatic stress program that we partner with called Warrior Path. It's for first responders and combat veterans. And it's all about post-traumatic growth. it's all about we're going to struggle, but we're going to need to struggle well,

and we can learn how to do that. So it's just been incredible. I've been rambling, Mike, and you're the guy that's supposed to be talking, so I apologize. Well, you know what? I'm just not going to interrupt you, Travis. You've got to know that. I like to hear you talk. I'm never sure where we're going to go with our conversations.

But in that last spasm of rambling, here's what I want to ask you. So you're having a terrible moment and you're at your low low, it occurs to you that you need to do something. Or had you, had you, already been doing these things? Had you already been speaking? Had you already been forming a foundation? Had you already, like, did the action precede the realization? Or did the realization catch up with stuff you were doing already and kind of tap you on the shoulder and say, more of that, genius. More of that. Well, people are still raving, raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest Pure Talk commercial.

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It was more of that So I spoke a few times Like when I met you The first time I ever spoke You know at the National Science Convention Or whatever And we got the chance to meet But that was like one of my first times

And I had been asked a few other times I was like yeah I'll try it out And I enjoyed it Never really did it before But I enjoyed it And then the foundation we started For care packages And then we had some people in Maine

That heard about me going kayaking And downhill mom biking And all these different action sports I could still do and said, hey, we have the same kind of climate and temperature as Colorado, where I went snowboarding or, you know, wherever. And they said, you can do that here, and we'll call it the Travis Mills project. And you'll be the face of it, and we'll do all the work.

And I was like, hey, that sounds like high school, where I just copy people's work and I got good grades. So I took it. Yeah, doctor, doctor, doctor, but whatever. Hey, who's got hands to count on? I get it. And fingers. So, no, we leaned in. We leaned in and brought some families out.

people we got so big that the nonprofit we were talking with and partnering with was like we can't handle this so i was like okay well i'm going to take it and run with it and um you know there's been sleepless nights there's been things that you know you sit there and you're like are we be able to do this or is this going to work or you know people leave or things happen so it hasn't been just like everything was easy but it gives you some sort of direction and purpose and that's what the military gave me and then kelsey'd be able to my side um and chloe she's 12 now i mean she's an absolute awesome athlete and scholar. I can't believe she's 12 years old.

When did that happen? Yeah. Well, 12 years ago, I suppose. Yeah, I was going to say this September. And then my son, you know, he's six. He's a wild man. And life goes on. So you think about the roads that you can take or the path or avenue.

Like for me, I had the choice to get better or don't, and I could be miserable and angry. Or I can just accept this is me. You know, one of the chapters in the book I'm really proud of is that dog don't hunt stop asking why, basically. It's the understanding of this is what happened and the realization of I'll never be able to answer why it happened. So I need to accept it happened and I need to push forward. But you can go down rabbit holes, just any which way of why this happened or what you could have done differently.

And the truth is, I'll never have an answer that suffices. I'll never be an answer like, that's why it happened. You know what I mean? Why do we do that to ourselves? Why do we do this? I don't know. It's just human nature. You can pick apart anything or how you could do something different.

but the truth is time keeps going on, but you can't go in the past. You can't change it. So for me, once I realized this is my life, this is what it is, we have to keep going forward because there's nothing in the past for me. My life got a lot better. And there was a lot less moments in the night when it was dark, laying in bed, wondering why this happened. Because it just did.

It did. It's okay that it did. And you have to find a way to accept that it did and realize that your life's not over. And I say this, and I'm not sure if it comes out or it lands the right way, but you can't, will yourself to die. Like I couldn't sit in the hospital bed and be like, no, no, I shouldn't have lived. I'd rather just, okay, I'm ready to die now, close my eyes and like make it happen. It doesn't happen that way, you know? And that's just the truth of it. No matter how much, like, you want to will yourself to, like, not be in a situation or things to be different, you can't.

And I just accepted what happened and decided we're going to, we're going to make the best of it. Did you go straight to acceptance or did you hit all the other levels of grief, you know, all of the other stages? I'm not sure what the stages really are. Denial, bargaining. Bargaining's a big one. I might have, but I was really angry about the situation, but my daughter kept me level. She was six months old, laid on my chest,

went everywhere in my wheelchair with her, learn how to walk with her. And I tell people why I'm not sure if I'd be the same person if Chloe wasn't there. So she was a massive part of my recovery. But I also, I didn't do mental health right. I would just be honest with you guys. When I got injured,

and I said in the last podcast, they had mental health sitting there wanting to talk to me. And the first time they came in, I was sleeping. And the next time they came in, I told my wife, like, tell them I don't want to talk. And the next time they came in, like, I pretend like I was sleeping. She's like, mental health here. And I was just, like, in bed, I was like, we're done here. And I waited until her to leave.

I didn't move a muscle. The next time she came in, I was eating a bowl of cereal. Make shift arm, duct tape, split material, plastic spoon. She walks in. I'm sitting up. I literally look over, and I know who she is and what she looks like. And I said, oh, shit. And I fell back in my bed.

I mean, from full sitting up, just fell back. And I acted like I was sleeping. Like, pretend like I was snoring even. Like, straight up. Straight up. Like, could she take a hint? Well, she walked over. She's like, what are you doing?

She's like, I just saw you setting up. You know, I just went with the part of fake snoring. And then I gave my name rank in my social. And she's like, what? And I gave my name ranking social care number again. She goes, I don't understand. So that's what you tell the enemy if you get caught. So take it and leave or leave, I don't care.

But we're not having a conversation. And my wife was like, you're going to make her cry. I'm like, well, I told you to tell her not to come back. And the fact she keeps coming back, you must not deliver the message, but we're not going to talk. And that's the only thing I did. And then I never talked to mental health. And then they assigned you a social worker. And this lady was very nice.

Christie was her name. I went and saw her the first time for an hour. And we talked about sports and football and what life was like and blah, blah, blah. You know, like real general small talk. And then she asked me a really deep question. And I'm like, yeah, we're not going to do this. And then she'd try talking on her stuff. And then we'd go in that direction.

She asked me another big, like, deep question. I'm like, yeah, nope. And then I went back the next time And I said, look, we can sit here as long as you want I said, well, this is not the movies You're not going to automatically break through to me And we have nothing that we're going to talk about About me that's going to be in any deep conversation

So you're not Robin Williams and I'm not Matt Damon And we're not going to have a big moment This is just simply not going to happen Why? I mean, where do you think the resistance was coming from? Oh, I know the answer In the military, it was looked at as weakness to talk to anybody I do like guns. I was not going to have my guns taken away.

And I was like, no, not taking my guns away. Here's the other thing, right? So the reason that I did the family retreats, right? And the reason that I did, I got the chance, and I jumped at the chance. I mean, I was ecstatic to get the partnership with the Warrior Path program was because I realized that my healing came from the families

that was around, right? So the foundation that we have up here that you've done your return to the favorite show on and promoted it and helped out with, which I really appreciate. The families that I was at Walter Reed with that were going through the same thing, missing limbs, with spouses, with children, we all connected. We all had the same thing going on, and we all had the same issues.

And I would say there's less post-traumatic stress that happens with the people that were at Walter Reed because we had this community of people to talk with. As well as the post-traumatic stress program we have here for combat veterans and first responders, which the first responders thing is huge. It's like one of the only ones out there for first responders. With the warrior path, it's trained the train. trainer. Like the path guides are combat vets or first responders. And it's not your clinical setting. You know, it's a whole curriculum based off of train the trainer like the military does.

So, and I tell people, I didn't do it right, right? I know that. Given the chance again, I do it the same way, though. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not a guy that talks with my feelings that much. And I'm not good at it. How does that make you feel? Yeah. Yeah, nice. Yeah, great. Makes you feel like writing a book. I do feel like I'm a little more callous. I mean, I even wrote My first spoke a story about we were going on a patrol, and a guy was wearing like a police vest, like an Afghan National Army guy or African National Police. Either way, he's wearing like a reflective vest.

And I think we made the joke, well, he's going to be the one that gets hit today. He got killed that day. And I was just like, yep, see? And it's just like move on to the next. I mean, when we would take, like, say we getting a firefight with the Taliban, we killed somebody, we just, in order to put them, we had to strap them to the hood of our Humveys and drive them to the town and drop them off of the nearest town at the police station.

So I wouldn't say like I'm an animal or anything like that. I just, I don't think it's even compartmentalizing at this point. I think it's just you get desensitized, you know? When you wrote the book, Trev, were you really thinking about, I mean, there are 12 principles in the book. We don't have to touch on all of them, but I want people to understand the basic structure of it because let me ramble real quick for a second with regard to self-help, okay? I don't get comfortable. I don't always know what to think of it. I mean, when I walk into a bookstore,

there are a thousand books written by people who want to help me ostensibly or the world. They feel like they have information. And now your book is among them. And when I look at all those books, I see authors that I've never heard of. Maybe they're onto something. Maybe they're not.

Some are experts. Some are only one doctor. Not everybody has three doctorates. okay, you know, you don't, I mean, whoever, who are these people, right? There are a lot of them. And then there's celebrities, geniuses like me who might one day write lessons from the dirt and tell you all about the lessons I learned from 350 dirty jobs. And honestly, who cares? There's so many people with so much to say. But the category that interests me, you know, Johnny Jones, Johnny Joey Jones was on this podcast. You've obviously been on it. And I realized that

in my own mind, it's not that there's a ton of new information that's under the sun. I mean, there's not that much new to say in the world of wisdom, but there is a group of people who are qualified, uniquely qualified to dispense it. And obviously, you've realized you're now in that category, right? So when you say, don't get hung up on asking why, you're not just some guy with three fake doctorates. You're a guy with four fake limbs, okay? And so the credibility that you bring to the transaction. And three honorary doctorates, not fake. And three honorary, exactly. Look, I get it. I mean, it's a hell of a resume. But the part that's going to get people's attention is, okay, he made it

through the other end. And so having said that, my question is, when you put these principles together. Were you really thinking about their utility in the civilian world, or were you also thinking to some degree about what it might do to keep that 22 or 20 suicides a day down? Who'd you write it for? Everybody. And I know how cliche that might sound like, oh, I wrote for everybody. Everybody should buy this book. But the truth is, I wrote for both.

And I wrote for both because Mike, when you're out in town and people, this is, they're They always stop you. They always say, oh, I love this episode, or I do this. How many people have told you what they do for their job? How many people have said, like, I do this for a job? Every single person I've ever met in the last 20 years. Yes, sir, yes, sir. And here's the thing.

When I'm out in public and I'm not where I locally am, where people know me and they just know me, they have to tell me the worst thing going on that they have ever experienced or a loved ones ever experienced. I know I say that kind of like an a hole. But the truth is they want to get on my level. They want to say, hey, look, I had this happen so I understand what you're going through or I understand what you've been through. And I'm not saying they have or haven't, but at the same time, I become the world's biggest therapist. I don't mind the role. I don't mind

the role. But then the amount of people that will break down and cry and say, I had a loved one going through this or I'm going through, like I had a lady I was at lunchy other day. And I'm local, locally. And I was at lunch at my buddy's restaurant. And her mom walks up and talks to me. She goes, my daughter would love to meet you. And I'm like, yeah, no problem. Sure. And her daughter's sitting at table. She's probably in her 40s. Her daughter is. And I I was like, you can come over. Like, I'm not contagious. You won't catch an arms and legs from me.

You know, my normal joke, I tell. And this lady was just like, I drove so much inspiration from you. And she just got through a bow to cancer. But she uses me and my Instagram. I don't know. My Instagram's gotten a lot better because I have a videographer, like, full-time guy. I told me your only job shows and reels. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. I know. I think it was a hot mess. I use your videos in your story. Yeah, no. I get it. I get it. It's like 2012.

I fell apart for a while, but I had to get put back together. But the thing is, like, she was going through cancer, and my story helped her get through it, you know. And the stories that I hear and the people that my story or my situation touches, I thought, you know what, maybe they can't all hear me present. Because what happens is I'll go on and I present to like 300, 500,000, whatever people. And the lineup afterwards is so long, like, oh, I wish this person could have heard this. I wish this person could have been here because they could really use this message. And it's all the way from, like, high school kids to people in their late 90s. or whatever, like they're this kind of person.

So my story, the way I tell it, and the way I present it, resonates with everybody. And that's what I want, right? I don't want to just only be for this and that. And when people grab my book, you know, the bounce back, the 12 warrior principles, when they grab, I'm trying to grab it here, when they grab it and they pick it up, what I want them to see is, you know,

the cover here, which is cool, but then I want them to turn it, you know, everybody looks at the back, and then they see a guy with the arms and legs with his family. Like, that's what I cared about, with prosthetic arms and legs in my family, because I'm more than just a quadruplemate that was injured in Afghanistan, and those military stuff.

Like, I'm a dad. You know, like, I'm a father of two kids. I'm a husband for the last 15 plus years. And we all have things that we go through, you know, the things that we deal with. So if my story can help anybody, that's what I wanted to do. And I know how generic and that sounds, you know, like, oh, it's for everyone.

Everybody should buy it. But the truth is, I have stories of things everybody goes through. And then I have research and articles and stuff. Yeah, it's not just military folks, right? It's not just military folks that you give as examples. I don't talk to a lot of military functions and things like that, a lot more corporate. So again, becoming just like with Mike, and I'm sure Mike people tell you problems too. I'm not just saying like you're only guy that tells about their job.

But I'm saying, I mean, I actually hadn't thought about it. Look, anybody under any circumstance on any given day can feel sorry for themselves for any full, headed reason there is. There have been days. Like, I've gone back and forth between feeling really blessed and lucky and grateful that strangers will come up to me to tell me about their first dirty job were the dirtiest thing they've ever done. And I felt equally and oppositely annoyed by it. It just depends because I'm just a guy trying to get through the day. But fundamentally, it's a gift. It's a great gift to be a

kind of avatar for people who want to share. But I had never thought in terms of, you know, people aren't coming up to you to talk about the time they lost their arm or their leg. They're coming up to you to tell you about a thing that happened to them that was hard. So you, for the last decade, have been on the receiving end of, I can't even imagine how many hard luck stories. So, yeah, that's part of what I meant, qualifies you to write this book in a way that 99% of the psychologists and psychiatrist and shaman's and gurus and self-appointed therapists have. You've got the receipts. I will say I'm not that bright either. I mean, I walked into a bomb. So the truth is, the collaborative author, Kathy Hook, who I have, is fantastic. She's a research author,

and she really made this process. It was seamless. I mean, this is a two-year project. The people that we interviewed and the stories we wanted to capture, I mean, we have some stories we didn't even use, unfortunately, but what made the most sense? So I hope people aren't thinking like I'm just trying to fumble my way through this. Like I actually have a professional that help me. But the same time, it comes from a place of you've inspired so many people and just with who you are. Like my wife gets a little bit sometimes cranky. People come up and talk to me.

And I'm like mid bite, right, of my burger. Like, oh, hold on a second. Let me chew this and I'll have a conversation. Then I'm like, Kelsey, they're not coming up because I'm some kind of psychopath that they saw on the news that just murdered three kids or anything. They're coming up because, you know, they like our story. They like what we do. They feel a sense of pride in what we have going on. And they also want to tell us how we relate to them, how you and me or how my story relates

to them in a positive note. You made their life better. You made their life better. And they want to thank you for it in a very specific way. I'm not here to talk bad about school. But I remember being in school and having teachers talked down about a lot of the jobs that you were part of your 350 that you did, that people actually make living on and make money on and take care of their families on.

and I think you've opened the doors to a lot of high school students to go, you know, obviously Mike Row works and everything, but open their eyes to what's the possibilities out there without going to college or what, you know, is a good career path. And I think that you represent something like that for a lot of people because, oh, I'm sure if you're like, oh, you covered my, this is what I do, just the job you did on this episode. And I was so grateful that you were showcasing that because it is hard work,

but it's rewarding work and it's how I pay my bills and put food on the table for my family, you know, stuff like that. I'm sure you hear it all the time. Well, look, since we're talking about me, put yourself in my place for a minute. Okay. Let's go back to the national science thing. All right. You're there to give, was that the first big public speech you ever gave?

I remember trying to negotiate, like, contract-wise, and the number I threw out there was for me to do one. And then, like, they had me speaking three times. They're like, yeah, we'll just negotiate that. And, like, they negotiated it. They thought I was asking for, like, so much money for all three of them. I was like, this is just for one payment. But I didn't tell them that because I wanted to. act like I knew what I was doing. And then, you know, I don't look like an idiot. But it was my first

one. I put the PowerPoint presentation together on STEM. I brought a bunch of legs. I mean, my wife was even jealous. People were touching my arms and legs, like rubbing me up and down on my prosthetics. But it was my first time ever, yeah. I shared my first time with you, Mike. Well, what you did to be, like, you really screwed me up that day, dude. I got to be, I mean, I wrote the story, and I think part of the reason it was shared, close to 20 million times, was because it was such a head fake. I mean, Dirty Jobs was a very big deal back then, and I had security around me, hustling me through 300,000 people to get to the other end of the auditorium, because I, too, being a genius, got booked

for two events, and I was running to the second one, and somebody gets through security and says, hey, somebody really wants to say hello to you. And I'm like, oh, isn't that nice? Okay, well, great, have them come on up and say hello, but I can't stop. I'm late. And the guy's like, well, it would be better if you came over. And I said, Chuck, I think my exact words were, what, are his legs broken? Yeah, yeah. And the guy says, something like that. Something like that. Right. So I go over to meet Travis, and there you are. And all you did was ask me about dirty jobs. Yeah. All you did was tell me how you and your buddies used to watch that show when you were over there. And I mean, in seconds, all the self-pity, all of the, oh, I'm late, every single thing that was about me just ran right out my ass, gone.

And that was a gift. I don't know if you know you gave it to me or not. But, you know, I try to help people and disarm them when they meet me. Really? So you're saying you go out on a limb from time to time? Four times. You're not pulling my leg when you say this? I mean, I could.

I've got to hand it to you. I can't put my finger on why that was so clever. Jeez, knee-slappers. That's what you got. If you got them, go ahead. So you think you were upset getting held up from going on stage. I mean, the time slot I had on Lockheed Martin's Little stage was the same as Bill Nye, the science guy.

and I heard through the grapevine he was pretty pissed because nobody went to it they had to walk past me to get to him and I stole everybody from him and I heard through the grapevine he was pretty upset

and he was like I'm at a science convention I'm Bill 9 and I'm like well I'm Travis what up and I got magic tricks right like look at now you see it oh now you don't

I know I know for those of you not watching this just suffice it to say he did something terribly clever That's right. With his, what do we call this? Slight of hand.

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one is a blessing. I mean, some days it seems like it could be a curse, right? But it's really a blessing. And I had a conversation with the gentleman. He was pretty bitter about his injuries early in my recovery. And we were at our friend's house for a barbecue, and he said, you're part of everything's great club. And I was like, what does that mean?

But you have no arms and legs, but you actually just like, everything's just so great. And I looked at him. He's got his arms. He's got his hands and fingers and whatnot. I said, yeah, yeah, it must be terrible to be in that club. Everything's a great club. I said that should be bitter for the next probably 50 plus years since I can't accept what happened to me. I should just be bitter and angry because I got probably 50 years left.

I don't think I could have punched them harder than those words hit them because acceptance is really the key of like this is my life. You don't got to be happy about it by any means. Like I'm not my biggest fear and I was talking my buddy day going through a rough time. I said, you know, you're going to try to game plan for the future. What's going to happen three years, five years? And I used to sit there and think, how am I going to teach my kid out to play soccer or basketball or football? You know, the things I used to do. And I told them the best thing is take it day by day, week by week,

because you look too far in the future, you'll drive yourself crazy as well. It's not just about stopping the past and asking why. It's about controlling what you can control that's coming up and not trying to game plan down the road where you have no control. And again, that's not saying don't have hopes and dreams and goals and wishes. That's just saying if you're fretting something or dreading something like I was, I just had to weigh it out. My daughter, she's one of the best soccer players around.

Because when she's not, she walks home. I don't care how long it is. Yeah, she walks. Yeah, that's right. That's right. She got hit in the face of the ball. She played timid for one game. I said, stop being soft.

She goes, well, it hurt, Dad. I'm like, and what happened? Three minutes after her hit you the face, what happened? I was like, I don't know. I said, you stopped crying. You went back in the game. And I was actually embarrassed that you cried. So quit.

Would you lose your arms and legs? Give you a break. See, the problem with you, dude, is that your mere existence poses a threat to anyone who has taken comfort in any kind of victimhood or who has dealt in any kind of self-pity. So when that guy came up to you and said, oh, you're, you know, basically he called you a Pollyanna, right?

You're Mary Poppins. You slide up banisters, you know, you're just, you're a threat to his own identity. You were saying before there was a time when you couldn't look in a mirror. You hadn't accepted the reflection that was in there. This guy's no different. In that way, he doesn't really accept the person that he is, and your existence magnifies his inability to come to some kind of peace

with whatever his drama is. But the fact that your drama is actually a trauma actually ensolens him in some way. And so I guess the question, is what do you do when you're shamed by someone like you? Not intentionally, because I know you don't shame people. But, Trave, your presence, your mere existence on the planet is a heads up to the rest of us. And we can either look at that and shake our heads and go, ah, you're just in the Polyana club, or we can look at ourselves and go, really? Really, Mike? Your flat feet ache from the

ruck you just took and now you're going to complain about it to who to Travis Mills no I'll listen I'll listen yeah yeah but you're inside you're laughing when I tell my wife uh and everybody else like my presence is the presence you know and then you wink like that yeah I mean I'm sitting the edge like her side of the bed just when she's sleeping just whisper her so lucky to have me just so she knows you know what I mean well I'm sure she needs to be reminded from time to time. Yeah. Yeah.

No, she doesn't. Yeah. You know how many times? People are like, oh my gosh, she's such a hero. How lucky are you to have him? And she's like, yeah, no, it's great. He's wonderful. It's a real treat.

He's the best. It's my damn lucky day. Yeah. What annoys you these days? Like, among the civilian, right? I mean, just the encounters, the meetings. What did people get wrong when they meet you for the first time? Well, I'm not sure if you saw the cover of Men's Health magazine this month, but I'm on the cover of it.

And the problem is everybody thinks I'm, like, fit, and I'm not. So what annoys me is that they don't understand. It's for mental toughness, okay? Because now I've got to walk around my stomach sucked in all the time. I mean, I look like an idiot, but at least I don't look as fat as I am. Because I'm muscular. You know, I'm fat by my pecks. I don't really get annoyed by a lot.

I mean, people come up and they're like, oh, I was having a bad hair today, but then I saw you, so my hair is not that bad. And I'm like, well, that's a pretty assinine statement. I've legit had to happen. Your hair looks great, by the way. I got Bosley. Yeah. Did you really? Oh, they pluck it out of the back.

They take, I know you guys what it annoys me. I don't know what to tell you. But they take the tool that they polish your teeth with. Like the little drill, it's like zzz. Same tool. They put razor blades on the end of it, little tiny razor blades. And they carve in the back of your head for the donor site. They pluck the hair follicle out.

And everybody's pulled a hair like out of their eyebrow. So this is like a little white bubble. Not a follicle, Mike. Not. No, it looks like a jellyfish. Yeah, it looks like a little jellyfish. And they pull it out. They put in this like,

you know, saline or whatever. And then they take a scalpel and they cut your head open. And it's like, and you hear it and you feel the pressure. It's like a deeper, it's like a paper cut, but like deeper. Then they take these follicles and they plant them in your head. Chachia, and for me, it was 2043 times. And now it's growing in.

And I'm feeling pretty good about it. 2,043 times? That's how many times? That's how many? Yeah. And you can't even tell on the back like there was anything taken. And I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it twice, you know?

You're going to be hairy like a monkey, dude. Yeah, I'm also vain. Try to have an arms. legs of being fat and live in a world where food's delicious and you can't control yourself. You know what my favorite statement is? Oh, I shouldn't, I shouldn't ate that. You know, because if I would be like, oh, I shouldn't eat that, then I know better. But if I'm like, oh, past tense, I shouldn't have that. I mean, it's already ate it. Yeah, I think about it. I'm like, I'm like, hmm, that doesn't look like I should probably finish all that, but I'm going to do

that. Then I'm going to complain about it later. I guess, but 2400, you know, follicular reassignments is, I mean, you can do that standing on your head. I mean, all things considered, what sort of surgical procedure makes you go, ooh, that seems tough. I'll tell you what, though, actually your face, because all the stuff, the numbing stuff they put in, your face swells up. They're like, hey, your face is probably going to swell up. And I didn't take it serious. I'm like, no, I like, iced my face a little bit here and there, but no, I mean, my face was swollen. My left eye was, like, swollen shut and, like, I can barely see the one day. Don't they inject, like, what do they call, almost like a gel to,

create a thicker layer between your skull and the top part. I missed that's probably true. I missed that brief, but that's probably true. Well, I think that's the saline that like slides around. Like it'll, it started in the top, and then it works your way your forehead, your forehead's massive, and then it goes to your eyes, and then it goes out of your body, but it is crazy looking. When did you do this? When did you decide? April? Here's what happened. All right, I had my gala two years ago, or we had a gala this September. The one before that. I'll be honest, okay, I'm going to level with you. Okay, I'm going to level with you right now.

It was a hot day. I had one or two many IPAs. And it was very potent beer, and I was drunk. But I was sweaty, too. So I got up on stage to give my speech. And I was like, well, you know, I was like, I got eat bread or something, drink coffee, whatever. Well, I got all the pictures back in my hair. I was so sweaty, but all you can see is my scalp.

And I was like, what am I doing? So the next day I tell Kelsey, what am I even doing? Look at these pictures. And she's like, let's just shave her head. So we did. And then. Immediately, she goes, she looked at me after she did, she goes, nope. Should have done it.

That's why I used this family picture, because the family picture I had from last year that we were going to use, I was bald. And she's like, nope. On the back of the book, show to me again. No, I used, it's an older picture. My daughter's 12. She's only, like, nine in this picture. But yeah, she literally took the clippers, and she shaved my head, and she says, yeah, nope, we're not doing that. And then I called Bosley.

And I was like, hey, guys, want to help me out? They're like, we can make you look better than you do right now. Can't promise anything. And then they're like, hey, by the way, you probably still lose other hair that we're not replacing. I'm like, how many times can I do it? And they said, well, one guy's done it 14 times. I'm like, I'm not that vain. Maybe twice.

But you never know. 14, if that's the goal to beat, I'm all about winning. You're going to have an amazing head of hair in, what, six months? Well, that's the plan. But I'm going to do it again. It looks a lot better than it did, though. I mean, I'm getting comments. But the thing is, like, because I did deal with Bosley, I have a lot.

to tell people. I'll have people like, why do you tell people that? I'm like, because I did a deal that if I told people, they would help me out with the pricing of it. Oh, this is perfect. Dude, you're going to set, this is the best podcast ever. We're going to sell books and we're going to put Bosley back on the map. Good for them. That's right. That's right. I love it. And they don't have a promo code, but if you want to just tell them when you talk to him, Travis Mills saying, that'd be great. You know, it's up to you. No pressure. But, you know, you get on stage and I was looking at the pictures, like, I used to, like, have my hair and it comb it over. I mean, look it. You can't see it. But next to this microphone, they brought my

hairline forward even. Like, my hairline came out. They brought it out. Yeah. It's legit, man. Dude, I've thought about it, too. Look, at the top of my head right there. It drives me crazy. Okay, that doesn't count. You look great. I know, but I'm saying, look, if you're vain, and obviously we are, you know, we're here we are in the prime of our lives, doing our podcast, running our foundations. We're public figures. I've had some drinks before and gone on stage. I've looked at the pictures. I've seen that shiny little silver dollar shape. Just right there. You know, it's like, what is that? Yeah. It's funny. Get a bunch of guys together. They're all losing their hair.

And suddenly, you know, they're having a contest of like, who's losing more and how bad can it be? And, you know, but that's what we do is people. We like constantly weigh and measure ourselves. I look at Chuck's hair. The reason he hasn't cut his hair in seven months, as I told him, you selfish asshole, if I had hair like that, I wouldn't cut it. I'd grow. I'd grow up. I'd grow it and then I'd figure out something interesting to do with it. Chuck, if I had fingers, I'd run right through her hair. I'm telling you right now, if I ever catch you out in public and I'd put this little guy my little nub right through it, don't be weird.

Don't be weird. You'll smell my old spice because if you're really close to the old armpit, but I'm just going to rub my nub through your hair. It's silky smooth. I'll tell you what, you got real red in the face there. I can see how push it up. Conversation got a little weird. Yeah, well, doctors happen to have that happen.

We're okay with talking about anything, being doctors and everything. Well, with that in mind, I want to circle back to not really that moment, although I am curious, you're sitting on your bed, you're crying, you're feeling super sorry for yourself, Kelsey comes in, rubs your back, makes it all better. But you had already, at that point, we had already met, you would already start to speak publicly. You were, I'm really stuck on this because I think that, like, it's a fundamental thing with advice. if you don't know what to do to make yourself feel better, should you do nothing or should you, in the name of action, get out there and start doing something and maybe you'll create some kind of prophecy that will self-fulfill? That's what happened to me. I didn't want to give speeches. I didn't want to start a foundation. I just started doing it because I wasn't sure what else to do. And then it started to make more sense, you know?

Yeah, and that's what happened to me. I mean, I was never thinking I was going to be a motivational speaker or public, you know, keynote speaker. And then I just started and they got more and more. And then I had the documentary that Reese and Nors was doing. The first one, Travis Sodor's Story, that was coming out. So that was great. And then I happened to just accidentally bump into Dave Vibora, who owns Adapt, who started an Adap Training Foundation.

I helped him start. I started working out with him, right? He's my personal trainer in a way. I worked out with him three to five days a week. and he decided to start a nonprofit, but I was starting to feel better about myself and working out and getting plugged back into a community. I think it's a big problem with people that get out of the military.

They all push my stress, and we get six months. They give you six months of unemployment, and you go from getting told what to do, where to go, what to eat, what to say, how to act, to nothing. Like, complete nothingness. Like, okay, well, good luck. You get six months to figure out your life. So for me, like going from a structured,

okay, I got to go to physical therapy for this many hours, I got to go to occupational therapy. I got to go do this. And I want it out. I appreciate everybody in their hard work at the foundation, but I did want out. And then I got home and didn't know what to do because that was not a part of any community, really. And then we just kind of built it from there.

And then we moved from Texas to Michigan where I'm from, you know, we're trying to escape summer for the heat. Then we came to Maine, you know, where we built our house and where Kelsey is originally from. And we built one heck of a strong, tight-knit community here. And I'm so grateful for that. I think what people need to do is get more involved with charities and giving back. Not necessarily with donations or money. I think volunteering your time is some of the most rewarding things you can do out there in the world.

What I get to do at the foundation, you know, we raised, like you said, almost $40 million. I've never taken a dime. I've never paid myself. I don't take a salary. I've never done anything like that. And I realize that the real amazing part is that people just believe that what these veterans and their families have been through means so much that they'll donate hard-earned dollars and time and effort.

Just like you did with the high-rise ropes course and a rock wall, you know, believing in the mission that we have. So I just think people can become part of something like that and it'll help enrich their life, whether they're looking for something or not. That's it. You buried the lead. Whether you're looking for something or not, because I think a lot of people get stuck. I mean, inertia will take you in any direction that you're already headed. And so if you're stuck and you're not doing something because you haven't identified the thing that you think you ought to be doing, then you, by definition, do nothing. You're just waiting for some sort of sign, some sort of thing. What I'm trying to say is the thing I most admire about you is that you didn't wait until you hit rock bottom to start to do something.

you started doing it before out of some, I don't know, muscle memory, out of something. Like, you didn't wait. So somewhere in your book is probably, I mean, I haven't read it because Chuck didn't send it to me, which is why this is probably his last week on the podcast. That's on me. I was going to overnight it, but it's got a lot of words in there

and we didn't have much time because you had the, I'm going to get to you. Here's a kicker. I'm happy to pay for it. I'll order it right now. He's also happy to fire me. No, that's true. That's true.

That's W.W. Bosley slash Travis slash book. It's a really unorthodox way. I don't think that's going anywhere. But if you guys try that one, good luck. I think because of my injuries being so severe, I wasn't allowed to hit rock bottom because everybody was looking at me. And some people, I think, feel overshadowed by me.

At Walter Reed, I think they felt overshadowed. People were always asking me to do stuff, asking me to be in this, be in that. And I felt bad because my upbeat personality. And I mean, I'm out there. The biggest compliment I get is I'm the same guy I was before. People from my past, I talked to them. They tell me like, oh, my gosh, you're the same guy.

I'm like, yeah, I appreciate that. But when I first moved to Maine, there were some nonprofits locally that were very upset. You're going to take all the funding. I'm like, I'm not going to take no funding away from anybody. I said, we'll have a summit. We had a summit. And we said, what do you guys do? And we decide to set up, look, we want to have an answer if someone emails in and we'll send them

your way or this way. and we keep doing the summits. You know, we've gotten a little bit, you know, like September 5 Fun, America's Fun, Garrison East Foundation, Telenel the Towers. Like we have some of us with a little bit bigger nonprofits now that we used to, but I don't want to overshadow anybody, but if people can draw strength from my story, I think it's great. And because of my injuries, paired with my daughter being there,

and my wife and my attitude, I think I wasn't allowed to hit rock bottom because people would just come to me. Being a non-commissioned officer, and I know I'm rambling right now, I get that. I'm trying to get my point out is being a non-commissioned officer, I was taught by the military that my job is to provide purpose and direction. Being older at Walter Reed, even though I was only 25, I was one of the old guys there. I had a lot of service members, you know, that would look for me for mentorship and leadership in their injuries.

And ask me questions, so I kind of fell right into a leadership role at Walter Reed. And that was when I left Walter Reed that I had that breakdown moment where I was like, you know, who am I? And what am I going to do? Because nobody was asking me what, you know, for help anymore or, you know, things like that for advice. I guess maybe as we start to land this plane, I know you've got a busy day and blah, blah, blah, but what does success look like for the foundation? I mean, you're going to write books for as long as you live.

People are going to make movies about you. All this stuff is clearly in motion, at least from my perspective. Yeah. Do you imagine like a Tunnel to Tower's kind of presence on television? Is it about fundraising? How are you going to 10-X it? the motivators say? Well, I mean, right now we're doing some pretty awesome things. We have this facility that's paid off, you know, our operating budget. As crazy as it sounds as $4.2 million a year to be able to

help the families and do these programs and stuff like that, there's a potential facility we're going to buy down the road so we can do more of the post-traumatic stress programs. But five years from now, 10 years, maybe we open up one or two more facilities around the nation, if I'm just being 100% honest. The need is there. And the work that we're able to accomplish here is so powerful and up, that I think it's something that we could help with different regions. Maybe Texas is an option, Wyoming, somewhere out northern California or, you know, Washington or Oregon or something. Maybe a few more facilities if the need is there, which we believe there is. You know, just keep giving back and help with families. I mean, I am so lucky to live there with my injuries and to watch families come out here

and have a spouse say that they haven't seen their service member, right? Their loved one act like this since before, like, I'm really screwing the story up. But there's a bunch of wives sitting on the couch is inside one week. And not all certain members that come are, like, wives, or service members are guys. But in this particular week, it was all wives and they're talking, and one wife said to another,

or the whole group, like, this is the first time I've seen my husband act like the guy he was, you know, before he deployed. Like, this is the man that I married. And it was like, she was, like, crying. It was a real breakthrough moment. And like, oh, man, that's awesome. And then you look back and do a little research and check their paperwork, and you realize he deployed four years

ago. So he hasn't been himself. And then you had little kids say it's better than Disney World or they call it their main house and they feel at home and they get the chances like, oh wow, my dad has that leg or my mom, you know, that arm and things like that or in a wheelchair and kids get the chance to understand. And then service members, because it's a barrier free resort here at the Travis Mills Foundation, it's, they don't feel weird about trying something like getting in a kayak. If they fall out, it's okay. Everybody looks the same as them. And that's where the real healing comes in is when you feel like you can let your guard down and be you. because everybody else looks like you and is like you and been through the same stuff. So, yeah, success for us. I mean, we're going to keep plugging along doing what we're doing, but there's potential for more facilities and things like that. And then Kelsey and I are just lucky to, you know, have an amazing family with great support. And I'm putting a brewery in. I'm not going to do a distillery yet because I don't want to come at you anything like that.

I know you got some really big things coming along. And congrats on that, by the way. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We have four flavors out there now. But you're going to do a brewery.

So there was a time when I thought a micro-brew would be a terribly clever thing. But I didn't do that. I'd love to get out there and see what you're doing. Are you still a TV show waiting to happen? Only if you want to. Not right now. But there is some stuff in the works, kind of for a TV show, maybe. We've had some talks with some people for a movie.

It's just, I don't get my hopes up. I just try to do whatever I can do. I have a new documentary that came out last Veterans Day, so a year ago, Magnolia Network did it. And it's on Max and Discovery Plus. It's called Hi, I'm Travis. Chip and Joanna Gaines did it. Very proud of that.

Just a lot of fun stuff. Like I said, putting a brewery in. I happened to randomly meet a guy that's like the biggest independent brewer and distiller in Arizona. I was at a function in Arizona. He walked by. He's all tatted up, big buff guy. And he walked by me at a booth that we had set up. And I was getting ready to go on stage.

It was a big fundraiser for us. But I was going to ready to go on stage. But he walked by and said, hey, I'm not a piece of meat. I'm married. Stop looking at me. like that. And he looked at, he's like, what? I said, yeah, I'm talking to you. He's like, what, dude? And he wasn't even looking at me, right? And then it turns out, uh, Grand Canyon brewing in spirits like John Peasley and his wife's there. Fantastic people made good friends

with him and told me his whole operation on what he has going on there. So we're going to duplicate that up here. But, uh, but we always had a plan for a brewery, but it's cool, you know? But yeah, you can imagine. That's kind of how I attack things now. Like he was just walking by. It's like, I'm not piece of meat. Stop checking my legs out or something like that. And he's just like, what? Well, that, yeah. You know, the guy's probably heard every line in the world. You know, he's probably been approached by everybody there is.

He probably hadn't heard it but like that before. Good for you. You got to cut through. And it was funny. He's a huge fan of Jocco. Willink he does jih Tzu and whatnot. And he knows I'm friends with Jocko and him. He sent me a picture of him and Jokker on an airplane flying Turks and Kekos or something like that.

He was, look who I'm with. He facetimmed me with Jock. You know, but, um, As far as what's going on, you know, just taking care of the family, you know, foundations growing and things like that, and then just trying to find workers. If you know anybody that can get me some workers, that'd be great. Yeah. That's a touchy subject.

I think sometimes maybe I'm making it worse. But let's sum up. You got a documentary that people should watch. Where do they watch that? That's over on Max? On Max and Discovery Plus. I am Travis. Yeah, I actually forgot the name of it the day it came out.

I was in Cleveland for a big fundraiser, and I was at Mission Barbecue, which I love Mission Barbecue. Great Barbecue spot and a great mission that they have for a company-wide mission. The people were like, hey, what's it called? Your documentary? I'm like, ah. And then my father-in-law, who was with me, he's like, hi, I'm Travis. I'm like, oh, that's it. That's the one.

Hi, I'm Travis. More importantly, are you now getting free barbecue admission? No, I support their company, so it's fine. I mean, it's no big deal. I'll pay for it. well the book is called Bounce Back 12 Warrior Principles to reclaim and

recalibrate your life, correct? That's right, right here if you guys are watching. And you can find everything at Travis Mills.org. Yeah, there'll be a link there. It's on Amazon already for pre-sale and it's on Barnes & Noble as well. So if we want to check it out, I mean, it's a great

stocking stuff where I'm pretty sure I've been told. More importantly, I just try to take my spin and take what people have been through and let them know, like, we're not alone. You're not alone in this, and people have been through things, and there's medical background to actually explain how your brain works, how to change your mindset, or to understand why you've been coping so well with everything going on. Well, you know, to finish this thing where we started it, a lot of people up in your neck of the woods right now are going to be asking why. Why did this lunatic do what he did?

Why were we terrorized by this? And it's a legitimate and an understandable query, but to your point, it's not going to fix anybody. who's really been hurt by this. You're going to have to play the cards you have, and you're going to have to move forward from where you're standing right now. So our thoughts are certainly with that whole community, man. And I do believe, not having read it yet,

but I do believe, based on your last book, you've written something bursting with relevance and wisdom. Can't wait to get my hands on it. I appreciate that. I pack not one, not two, but all three doctorates into that writing. So if that means anything. It does. You don't know exactly what it means, but it means something for sure.

I appreciate your time. Thanks for having me and allow me to promote the book and this is to talk with you, you champion. I just want to clarify one thing. This drops the day your book releases. So it's not a pre-sale. It's on sale now if you can hear my voice. That's true. That's true.

It's on sale now. You get your hands on it if you have hands. So you should get it now. Oh, there's our title. Get your hands on your book if you have hands. Good. Thanks so much for being here, Travis. Hey, thanks for having me, you champions.

I appreciate it. All right, buddy. Let's do it again sometime soon. Maybe tomorrow. Yes, sir. If you like what you heard. And even if you don't. But won't you please?

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