The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 395: Dennis Quaid—Getting All the Stuff Right

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

The veteran actor and gospel singer recounts his early career, what made him give up his dream of becoming a veterinarian, how he realized he had a problem with cocaine and what he did to fix it, how Jerry Lee Lewis taught him to play the piano, and what it was like playing Ronald Reagan for his upcoming movie. And at the end of the episode—he sings a song! See the trailer for REAGAN HERE. 

Mike Roe here with another episode of The Way I heard it. On today's show, you get to listen to me, get to know, one of my favorite actors. 150 movies. I don't even know how many plays. I don't know how much TV. And he sings, Chuck. And he plays the guitar. Yeah, he does.

Yeah, he does. He's played a lot of famous people, Mike. A couple presidents as well. Yeah. In the, I think it was called the Special Relationship. He played Bill Clinton. Coming up at the end of this summer, he will be playing Ronald Reagan. He is Dennis Quaid.

What an entrance, man. What an entrance. He walks in here about an hour ago, maybe two hours ago, I guess. Got a mouth full of food. He's eating some sort of steak hoagie. Yeah, it looked good. It looked delicious, man. And just, I think he's 70 years old, but he looks like he's, I don't know, 48, 49 or something.

Yeah. Yeah. He looks great. He's in great shape and sharp as attack. Yeah. And fun to talk to. You know, it's strange, man. I mean, we've been in the business a while, you know,

and to have a, you know, a star of that magnitude just come in and sit down and start chewing his food and then chatting with you. It's a kick. It felt like known him for a long time. Yeah. And look, I think that's something all successful actors haven't come. Actually, that's not true. Some don't.

Some, it's like looking through sullophane, you know. They're nothing. Or they're an amalgam of all of it, but you can't quite put your finger on it. He's Dennis Quaid. Yeah. I mean, he's just a nice guy from the get. Yeah. Well, we spent 90 minutes together.

We talk a lot about his new film, Reagan, which is coming out at the end of... August 30th, I believe. The end of the summer, that's right. August 30th. We talk about some other stuff, too, as it just turns out that my favorite movie is his favorite movie. He just happened to be in it. I just happened to be in the audience. That, of course, was based on Tom Wolfe's terrific book, The Right Stuff,

which is why we call this episode Getting All the Stuff Right. With Dennis Quaid, it's a treat. You're going to like it. You're going to like the way you look. I guarantee it. Remember that guy's name? Of course, yeah. No, you don't.

I don't remember the guy's name. I remember the men's warehouse. You bet. Sigh something or other. Nobody cares. Dennis Quaid's next. Do do do do do do do do. Dumb.

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The smartest way to hire. I got kicked in a head by a yak in Calispell. Okay. That's a good start. I mean, it was, we were halfway through the shoot. Actually, we were... Are they split-hoved?

The yaks? That one was. After he hit you in the head. Yeah. No, we were castrating and shaving and all that, so I didn't take it personally. Yeah. Had I been in the yaks position? Shaving what?

Whatever we were going to reach. It was sweeps week. You know how it is. I love that you were going to be a veterinarian. Yeah. This was, you're out of Houston? Yeah. Houston.

Yeah, I was wanting to go to Texas A&M. do the whole thing and be a veterinarian i had a job i used to visit my grandfather and stay with him in east texas you know to semi-rule during the summers and uh i got a job at the local veterinarian there you know like sweeping up and stuff and i really you know that's where i was going to be i decided and so you know i also got to kind of assist in a bunch of stuff you know all kinds of stuff dogs get shot dogs with worms you know dogs coming in there are putting to sleep. Sure.

That'd be just, you know, tough stuff, all this stuff. All creatures. Yeah, operations, you know, and I was still for doing it until that one day in my third year of doing it, third summer, that we got called out to a farm to castrate a horse. Yeah. Hell of a thing. Farmer did not want to sit out there with a horse while he recovered from the anesthesia. And so they only gave him half of it.

So he was like half awake, and they had tied up the horse, cinched him up to the front leg, back leg on one side. And they slid him open and brought out the bolt cutters, basically, with the size of him. And that horse went insane crazy and stood up on two legs, one front and one back. And it was nuts. But it was so cruel. Nuts it was.

I said, I can't do this. Yeah. Yeah, we went through a very weird period on dirty jobs where the first time we showed a full AI program, the network was pretty sure that would be the end of all of it. I mean, it is something very, this is breathtaking if you haven't seen it before. Nobody's seen it before. But once they saw it, the audience went crazy. And then the network was like, oh, well, what else?

can you collect from? And then the show basically turned into a German porno. I mean, we just went to every barnyard there was. I mean, ah, what a steed. God, there were ostriches, there were emus, there were raccoons. I mean, everybody had a breeding program. Well, muscled. I just think, I mean, it's a family show, you know.

Yeah. And we got away with it because it was learning. Like, for every exploding toilet or every misadventured animal, husband or you genuinely learned something like where your food came from right yeah so we were to just to learn that nobody's available on a three-day weekend that's what that's what you learn right yeah but well then we got to the point where you know with lambs with docking you know you cut off the tails and you castrate them those guys do it with their teeth you know really yeah for real up in craig colorado with their teeth it's actually with what particular animal you said lambs so you get like a two

month. Lamb testicles? That's right. Yeah. So the lamb is on a post. The legs are spread and you grab the scrotum, pull it toward you, nip it off. Yeah. Push it back, expose the testicles, and you lean in.

And you bite them, and then you snap your head back. And then you just spit it out and move for the next one. Yeah. And the punchline is what? That's the beginning in the middle of the end. It's so shocking. I mean, this whole thing actually turned into a TED talk. So you, they're spread.

Spreads. You spread with your thumb so you don't have your hands available. Is that it? Well, you need two people. If you do it the recommended, well, so what the HSUS and PETA will tell you is you need a, like a rubber band that's supposed to go around it. And then over a two-day period, the blood. Yeah.

That just falls off. It just falls off. Except you got a rubber band around your scrotum for two days. For two days. It's miserable. Instead of the quick snap. Correct. And we did it both ways.

You know, there's a market that has been unexplored here. And maybe as entrepreneurs, we might want to go down this road. Tap into it. Yeah. Take a bite out of it. Just going to say that. Oh, my God. Hey, man, thank you for doing this.

And I want to congratulate it. So this flew out of my mouth a second. I was driving crazy. We were eating seconds ago. And now I've got a mouth full of sweet grains. It looks like kale to me. It was at one point. Guilvie is charged.

You said to me, why do they call it podcasts? There's three cameras pointed out of us. We're just making a TV show, basically. Right. How many of these have you done? I used to do. I did podcast myself, in fact, for a couple of seasons. Why did you stop?

Just got too busy to be able to do it. And I left the podcast, AudioWab, which is an entity out there that I was involved with in getting started up. And I left the entity and I was just getting really busy with work. And so I stopped doing it. Well, what attracted to you in the first place? Well, you know, as an actor, I do research for every role I do in some way or another, especially when I'm playing a real person. Sure.

You know, a lot of times I get to meet that person if they're alive. And that's why I love acting. It's because I've always been fascinated with what makes people tick. so I like talking to them and figuring them out in some ways just a little bit at a time, you know. But in a podcast, you're not going to take that knowledge and turn it into a performance. You're just, forgive me if I ask us wrong, but are you genuinely that curious? Yes, I am genuinely that curious. I really am.

As virtues go, as virtues go, where is curiosity? as virtues go, well, I guess it's down there with a carnival, isn't it, in the circus, in the magic acts, right? Well, sure. Yeah, I guess that's where curiosity is, or it could also be on the moon with Neil Armstrong. But it's got a white berth. But I do have a curiosity about it to, you know, what comes out of people's mouths and then the way they look, the way they move.

You know, we all give ourselves away. Everybody's got to tell. Yeah. So do you remember the first time your curiosity drove you into this business? Oh, yeah. It was my first week in Mr. Pickett's acting class at the University of Houston. Before that, I was kind of a man to be an actor. I'm going to be a musician.

I don't know what I'm going to. Am I going to be a forest ranger? I didn't know what it. Veterinary. Well, that was already three years ago. I'd given up that. But I'd been his class, and my brother had taken from him, and so quite a few people that went on to work. And he made...

Randy's what, three, four years older than you? Four years older. And he made acting... It was like psychology. You know, it was about what motivates people and about who we are. And the question is, what would I do if I were that... person in that situation. Now, that's very interesting, right? Because then it makes it individual rather than just anybody doing the part. And along with that comes really kind of feeling who they are,

putting yourself in another person's shoes and really getting to live that life. And it's turned out so fantastic because I get all these roles like I played an astronaut. I got my pilot's license from that. I've played a firefighter. I played two presidents and stuff. And I get to go on all these doors that say authorize personnel only. You know what I mean? That's the fun part. And find out stuff that in my lifetime, I would never get a chance to know. Yeah.

So the line gets so blurry, right? One minute you're playing a role and the next minute you're researching the role or vice versa. And then the next minute you're really full on in real life, newly informed with whatever it was you learned. And take that into my life. Like, that's how I got to be a Renaissance man. It's a blessing. or a complete idiot or a renaissance man who flies a plane or or not a veterinarian yes oh wow so picket you know

know we had mr picket back in high school his name was fred king and he was a music teacher for me i mean for me people talk about schools all the time this school that school great school oh that's a fine school it's never about the school right it's like saying oh that studio's great no man it's about the project and then the people in the project are Mr. Pickett and we would literally take you by the scruff of the neck not that way this way yeah did he do that well he would say stuff he had what he called constructive criticism you know what I mean I do and that would be you'd finish uh you know he'd finish a scene and you know to be quiet in front of the class that he go well of course you know you failed miserably you know had a light time

did he? But it wasn't really to put you down or anything. It was just like, you know, they'd tell you why and this and that and why do you this when this person is like that, you know? And it was constructive. Then you'd go and work on the scene for another like four weeks and come back into class and do it again. It wasn't about his ego, which I've been in a lot of classes that is about their ego or

it's about them. He just really, he loved to teach too. And what you're talking about, You guys had yours. You're talking about a mentor. That's right. Having a mentor in life. Yeah, exactly right.

Because it's not about the school. It's about a one individual that we are lucky enough to meet and that we're searching for. I mean, I'm searching for another one now, even. Only now they're younger than me. Are you him to anyone? Yes. Yes, I am. Well, that's a conservation devoutly to English.

Yeah, it is. And you know it when it comes along. Yeah. You know, it's good to give back. I find that I myself learn a lot in the process by entering somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. I think the first time I remember seeing you on the big screen, I was struck by how much fun you appear to be having.

This would have been the right stuff. Yeah. Which is my favorite movie. Is it? That I've done, yes. Really? Yes. Because just that.

What you just said? I grew up in Houston. That was Space City. The original seven astronauts came out like when I was in first grade. They wheeled the TV into the room to see Alan Shepard going up. And of those seven astronauts, Gordo Cooper was the youngest, and he was also my favorite. Because he was like the rock and roll astronaut. I loved his name, Gordo.

Gordo, you know. Terrific. So many, many decades go by there. You know, that replaced wanting to be a cowboy or a fireman or anything like that right away. Everybody wanted to be an astronaut. Decades go by and the book comes out, you know, Tom Wolfe, the right stuff. Staggering. I got the book as soon as it came out.

I read it, cover to cover like in a day and said to myself, man, if it ever made a movie out of this, I want to play Gordo Cooper. Cut to a year later, they're making a movie of this. Screw you, Dennis Quaid. That's a bet. Come on. happens in life. No. I wasn't Dennis Quaid then either.

You know, I was just an actor messing around. But they're making the movie. I go in for the part and, you know, I say I want to play Gordo Cooper. And I wait around for four months because another guy already had the part and he decided not to do it. And I got it. And then I found out that Gordo Cooper lived three miles

for me in L.A. Wow. And I called him up. And we became friends. Turned me on to a flight school. Bud Wallen Aviation over at Van Nuys Airport, where you get solo if you want to, but you don't have to. And Bud was three years younger than aviation itself.

So I figured this is the guy. So I wound up, I wound up, get my pilot's license, and then, you know, my instrument and all the rest of that. And then, of course, we did the movie. and Chuck Yeager was on the set every day. Wow. Every single day. The balls on that guy.

And I went flying with him in the little Bonanza over the lake bed and there at Edwards, you know, where he... Did he try to make you puke? What? Did he try to make you puke? No, it's hard to get somebody to puke in a bonanza anyway. You know, it's a single person to play. But he just still, like, loved the land, you know.

He was one of those screw-type things that I... But, you know, the movie bombed when it came out. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. But it's a classic now. What a trip to watch that happen, you know? I mean, do you remember sitting in the theater for the first time watching the right stuff, weighing and measuring yourself and all of it? It came out, and John Glenn was running for president at the same time that the movie came out.

And it betrayed the astronauts. You know, he was always kind of a Boy Scout thing. And I have all the respect in the world for John Glenn and all of them, too. But it sort of showed behind the scenes. They weren't just like upright, you know, boy scouts all the time, you know, which they weren't. You know, they were fighter pilots. That's the way they were going. And it was also another era in time.

So Walter Cronkite kind of put it down as well. But there was one thing that I think the flaw in the right stuff is this. it has to do with Gus Grissom, the second guy into orbit, the guy that lost the capsule. When he landed, it sank like two miles down, and he almost went down with it. In the book, Tom Wolfe created this the right stuff, which is like a pyramid that you go up, right? And that you get to the top of pyramid. And if you don't get there, you screwed up, you screwed the pooch. And it's your fault.

You screwed the pooch. No matter what happened. if something, it's mechanical or whatever, no, it's you that were in the cockpit, so you screwed the pooch. Consequences. Right. So he created that. So he kind of, for dramatic purposes, made that seem like that's the way it was, that Gus was the one who screwed the pooch on that second. He was responsible for losing his own spacecraft because he was more concerned about having his dimes and stuff that he was going to, like, sell afterwards for, you know,

commemorative stuff. Yeah. But that isn't what happened. And, you know, he really came within an inch of death. And what happened was, is that it was the first time they had a hatch on the spacecraft so that they could blow it themselves. And the thing had come off. They had a window there.

And the thing had blown out with a change of pressure coming down from space. And that's what sank the craft, not him. But if he had been screwed the blue, So then why did they give him the first Gemini flight? Yeah, right. And why did they give him the first Apollo flight in which he died and got fried with three others, the electrical system? The worst way you can imagine. You know, this guy was an American hero to be revered for his service.

And that of his family, too, and to be betrayed like that, I actually kind of begged for it not to be in there because of Gus's family. Gordo had told me about that. Really? Yeah, I'd wish it... The movie is still a great movie. I mean, I just love watching it, but... I have digressed a lot on that. No, not at all, really.

That's good stuff, though. No, it's great. One might say the right stuff. Uh-huh. Well, people are still raving. Raving, I tell you, about my mother's performance in the latest Pure Talk commercial. And if you haven't seen it,

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it's a great show, although it's good. It's on because you can't script the Bering Sea. And as a viewer, you watch that and you're like, I truly don't know what's going to happen, right? Yeah, exactly. When I think about pushing the envelope, the way Yeager did, and the way a lot of smart people were just going, hey, man, not for nothing, but we don't really know.

It's on the other side of that bary. We don't know. Smart people, we don't know. And he gets in there and just goes for it anyway. I mean, that gives me goosebumps thinking about it. So to be around him, to be in a plane with that guy. Yeah. Unpack that for a bit.

You know, he grew up, he was a lawnmower repairman. That's how he got into the Air Force. They worked on engines. And he took that into the Army Air Corps and then became a pilot because of his knowledge of engines. He locked us in a room before we did the movie, all of us guys, and told us his whole story, including the World War II stories. And now he used to like, you know, he's. He had several. He downed several of the German planes.

And a couple of the instances and how he did it. And, you know, what he'd been through. And saw the film, the actual film, when he took, I think it's the F105 Star Chasers, but that he was testing up at high altitude, about 110. He took it up there. He got as close to space as you can possibly get in a regular job.

in a regular jet. You got up there and it stalled. You watched this thing for like five minutes, you know, on three axis going this way, this way, and this way. For five minutes. And how you don't pass out from that, and he watched that clock all the way down while he was spinning like that to where you can't even punch out until you get to about, oh, 25,000 feet.

Otherwise, you're going to, you know, you're toast with the pressure and with the with the oxygen. How do you punch out when you're in a roll? I mean, you could be upside down. That's the thing. I mean, that's very sporty. Yeah. He had to like time it.

He ejected. And when he ejected, he came out and the rockets on the ejection seat caused his seat to catch on fire, which fed up into his helmet around here. And he had rubber all over his face. And he was blind. And now he's falling out of the sky from, 15,000 feet and comes down and you know that's all for military pay.

That's the right stuff. Yeah. You know, I read that Armstrong and Aldrin before they went up, signed a few hundred headshots because no insurance policy could be taken out. That they were coming back, yeah. That was the thing that they're why. could sell. Yeah.

I mean, they could have been stranded easily. Oh, very easily. Very easily. Chuck Yeager was checked out and rated in 195 separate aircraft. That's some kind of a record there. But those guys, they got in there knowing that, you know, the chances were not good. Coin toss. And they weren't, you know.

And Grissom was complaining about the way they put those things together because it was so fast. You know, we were on track to get air in a decade. Before 70, we were going to get to the moon. And, you know, all these different contractors putting this stuff together and wires are just hanging out. He was kind of like on quality control. And then it wound up getting him. People don't realize how close, how often so many things have come.

What were we talking about the other day with William Sapphire wrote a speech? Right. For Nixon. Yeah. All right. Now, the speech was never given, but it was rehearsed. Oh, about the moon landing? What to do if they stay in the Tranquilita space.

Right. Rocket didn't go off. Beautiful speech. Thank God nobody's heard it. Yeah. But it's worth a Google, you know, because, I mean, to imagine those two guys up there alive for a couple days. Yeah. But out of reach.

Yeah. They probably would have gone on what, 10 days, you think? You're going to run out of water, then you're going to run out of air. You're probably going to run out of air and all the kinds of stuff. You're going to run out of everything. You know, Armstrong landed that thing. I think he landed it with something like eight seconds of fuel left. That's exactly right.

Eight seconds. Yeah. And they came down to the landing spot. It had boulders all over it. It was impossible to land. So he just took it like, you know, sideways right across the, you know, 40, 50 feet above and looking for our landing spot. You listen to his voice, it's as cool as can be.

Yeah, man. Ice water. Boom. What a privilege to be around all that. It was pretty amazing. Well, I actually thought of that the other night I had a chance to screen your new movie. Yeah. And you start thinking about these near misses and what happens if Reagan is here but not there and says it this way but not that way and so forth and so on.

Yeah. Does that, I mean... That a bullet was an inch from a... his heart. Crazy. And a ricochet. Yeah. A ricochet an inch from his heart. Yeah, nobody thinks about it. What if? Right? Yeah. All right. Let's commence with some of the obvious questions. Forgive me as I impersonate an interviewer, but what attracted you to that? To Reagan? Well, it really frightened me more than anything else. Because you had already played Clinton, right? Yes. Yes, I had. It always sounds like he's holding in a hit, doesn't it? Yes, I had. In fact, the first day of all dressed up as Reagan, and we're doing the part where the Pope gets shot and we're watching it on TV.

And I go, we should call the... Wrong one. We should call our military and find out what's going. Oh, wrong guy. Wrong guy. We should call him. Yeah. That's Mark Joseph sitting over there on our sofa who produced this thing.

Great job. But I was filled with fear about it. and say the truth. And I also didn't see myself. You know, I don't look like Reagan. I don't really. And plus, total transparency, he was my favorite president. And such a well-known figure, it's like playing Muhammad Ali.

You know, everybody knows who he is. Yeah. And you don't want to do some Saturday night. You don't do a parody. You know, that's not going to do. No, you were convincing. So, well, thanks for that. I wasn't fishing for it, but I'll take it.

If the fish is going to jump. on the boat, thank you. So I said I really need to think about it. I didn't turn it down, but I said I really need to think about it. And so I got invited up to the Reagan Ranch. And when I came up there, the Reagan Ranch came out through that gate. First off, it's up from the highway. It's five miles of the worst road in California. Horrible roads. Really bad. To think that the Queen of England went up that road to see him because their helicopter didn't work. Amazing. But you come out, you go through the front gate, and you come through, and there's the spot up on top of that mountain. You realize that Reagan was not a rich man, and he was a humble man.

Yep. You can feel him. You can see all the work that he himself did there. You can feel him, and you can feel the humility of the man. Aggressive humility. Yeah. That's the thing that made up my mind. was the house that they had, you know, it's not a tourist spot.

It was the Western White House. The house is 1,200 square feet, maybe. They had a king-sized bed, but it was two single beds that were zip tied together. They had a GE appliances because he used to be the spokesman for GE. And he bought that, you know, he bought all that, like, after he was governor, you know. Oh, my gosh. And he got 20% off. That's right.

And they had the channel change that goes, capron, capron, you know, and a little note from Nancy in the basket and say, you know, how to operate the television with the three different controllers that they had to use to get there. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's supposed to be the nerve center of the Westman hemisphere. Yeah, right, right, right, the free world. Yeah, yeah. So, but, yeah, that's the thing that convinced me. Yeah.

That, that I can see this. I took my crew up there five years ago. Yeah, five or six. And same thing. It was the placement of those twin beds. It was his tool shed. John Barletta came by. Right?

He was still alive. And that was a shame. We'll get to that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have loved to have him been the movie. Well, that would have been something. By the way, Clinton Hill, you guys ever cross paths? No.

Clint was very close. close with John, Clint guarded Kennedy, Jackie. Oh. He was the guy who dove on the back. Oh, okay. That's Clint. Five presidents. Yeah.

So, yeah, he's been here. And those stories are important. But that visit was interesting on a lot of levels. But down in the museum, I saw something. I'm sure you did too. But it was an interactive display of the worst things that were said about Ronald Reagan. while he was in office and while he was running, you know. And, you know, I just mentioned it because we're living in a fairly divided time at the moment.

Very, very, very similar, isn't it? Amazing. Extremely similar. And how. And same players, you got Iran. Yeah, yeah. It's a wheel, right? It's not Russia, there's China.

It's just a wheel. But Russia's there. It's very strange time. Dangerous times. So I think you're a couple years older than me, but you lived through his presidents. Yes. Did you remember the vitriol? And did you? Oh, yeah. War monger, you know, kind of a bad actor, bedtime for Bonzo, airhead, all those things that he was called. And, you know, a lot of that still, like, remains today for a few diehards. Yeah. But this is the guy who won the

Cold War. Yes. I will, you know, give props to the Pope and to like Valenza during that time as well. This is the guy that really won it. And it was a plan that he had had for a while. And that was to basically our economy, we could bankrupt Russia. Instead of meeting them militarily, we could battle them economically by forcing them to spend on military. And that's what brought the Soviet Union down because people just, they weren't getting from their government what they needed to get. You know the Yeltsin story after the fact when he came?

He was in Texas, actually. Yeah. He was at Randalls at the supermarket. And that's when he knew the jig was up when he saw all that fruit, all that food. Pudding pops ultimately broke his heart. Yeah. You know. 20% off.

20% off, right? Right now. And you'd buy three and get it. And they were like six different kinds. That's right. Six different kinds. So many flavors. They didn't even have one in Russia.

Yeah. But they had food lines. Yeah. That's the way, you know, communist economy doesn't really supply incentive to people. And so, you know, to get the food to market and all that, you're going to get paid the same, whether you get there, you know, in a day or four days. And so what does it matter? So the economy doesn't really work that well. And, you know, we have them in an advantage.

managed that way. Because we had what people wanted. He waited him out. Cops. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite scenes in the movie is he hadn't won it, but he's fighting it. But he's having a hard time fighting it because they keep dying.

It's a great editorial device you guys use. Yeah, well, that's the way it seemed back then. I don't know if you remember that, but it was like dying, gone. He didn't even talk to the Soviets for the first, I think, five and a half years. Yeah. it didn't even talk to them. Right. They just kept dying.

And, uh, how can I negotiate with them? Yeah. They keep dying on me. So, well, there was one scene that I remember. Actually, this isn't in the movie, but it's a story that I heard where Reagan took Gorbachev when he visited the United States to the suburbs in a helicopter and flew around and looked down at the houses and said, you know, you see all these houses down there?

this is the working class. These people work in factories, they work in shops. They're not rich. And Gorbachev was amazed because they looked like palatial estates from his vantage point. Yeah, I've been over to Russia, and I've seen that public housing that they have. And it just doesn't compare. You know, it's basically a box. It's all you got, and it's not all that much.

There's a lot of money in Russia, too. So much. The oligarchs and everything. And it was, you know, It's always been run that way in a sense. It's still a mess today, if you ask me. But Reagan was the, I think it was the great president of the 20th century when it comes down to it. Because what he did with the Cold War actually put to rest World War I and World War II.

Because it was a century of war, of World War. And that was the end of that. It's just incredible. I mean, the times make the man sometimes, you know, and it's impossible. I can remember my dad and my mom both kind of just shaking their head because they had seen those films. They remembered him as the GE spokesman. I used to, I remember him, you know, selling Barrackso soap on Death Valley Days, you know, narrated, sort of like what you and I do.

Yeah. Yeah. A thing coming on. Death Valley days. And the reason he did that is because I don't think he was ever satisfied with his acting career. I tell you the truth. And he was kind of, John Wayne got his parts and a few others that came along. And he was kind of relegated to the B movies.

And the studio just never took him there. And then he married Jane Wyman. And she wins an Academy Award. while he's married to her and he's feeling like Mr. Mom you know kind of sitting at home and kind of washed up is what he was feeling and he became the which was not really a celebrated thing he became the vice president and then president of the Screen Actors Guild

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Sweet Don't. By the way, what did I say to you when we walked out of the screen? You wanted to lean into that even more. That to me is the most, like if you were to have taken one chunk of that movie and decided, okay, we're going to live here, right? This is what we're going to do for two hours. To me, that would have been the piece. That would have been it.

People don't understand that time nearly as well as they should. Yeah. They don't understand the power of that union. Yeah. In the context of the studios. The context and the context of the Times, they come to find out after the Soviet Union fell, and they started releasing and rummaging around documents, that it actually was that the Soviet Union had infiltrated the unions of the United States.

In particular, you know, the actors union and those that worked in and around, including crew people and stuff like that, and they wanted to get control and almost did. They knew then what, well, I guess it was Breitbart, who said it right, culture. Upstream of politics, always. Yeah. And you. Who controls the stories? Upstream.

Because you're talking about hearts and minds of people. And if you get control of what they're watching and their culture, you'll have their hearts and minds and be able to bend the politics as well. So that was very interesting to me because I never thought that was what was really going on. I thought that it had to be some kind of paranoia. by our own government at the time. Right. And, you know, there was the McCarthy hearings that were around there that ruined a lot of lives, actually.

But it turned out to be true. And that's where he became steel-hardened for fighting communism. Ronald Reagan was there. Yeah. You know, there were brawls. They would come into a meeting and they used this diamond thing that socialists used. to disrupt where you put a guy on each side and in the corners and then start agitating from there

in a crowd towards the center and you know the next thing you know you've got a brawl going on and it seems like everybody's on separate sides there for some reason or just it was all the tactics they used so but Reagan you know thought communism that's where he really saw its face and became dedicated to fighting communism right there. Maybe another example of how the headlines catch up to your thing, right? I mean, he was a decent actor, but you're right. He was what he was in that world. And then he finds this role in this bureaucratic position, frankly.

There's nothing sexy about it. No. But the world spins, and one thing leads to the next. And it's such a slow burn. That's what I like about it. you can learn everything you need to know about that guy. Yeah. In those days.

In those years between being an actor in the studio system to like kind of in a bad variety show in Las Vegas to becoming, you know, a spokesman for GE and, you know, selling soap on TV and ads. And working in this for the Screen Actors Guild, you know, in a position like that, those are the things that. that really prepared him for getting into politics seemed very natural to get into politics like after that. You know, he went around for GE, not only the spokesman, but he went around the country

to every GE factory and talked to the workers in the factories and really spent time with them. That was the beginning of his political base. The working man. The working man all throughout the country, not just in California. Isn't it crazy how the labels have changed?

The associations have changed. Well, Republican, Democrat, whatever, working guy, the way you think of unions, all of that. You know, you hear it a lot. I think Bill Maher said it the other day, and a lot of people have said it. I didn't leave the Democratic Party.

Democratic Party left me. That's what he said. Yeah. I'm about leaving the Democratic Party. Yeah. It feels like everything is shifting today and moving at light speed. And I just wonder,

what do you want this movie to do, aside from make money and be accepted Well, first off, I wanted to entertain people. That's what we go for. We want to go and enjoy ourselves someplace. You know, it's not a schoolroom or anything. Is that a lecture? No, it's not.

Only this is a lecture. This is a sermon, actually. Yeah. And it's not a sermon. And I want them to be entertained. I want them to feel things. Because I think that's why I go to movies, not to see things, but to feel things. And I think people will be able to, who were born

after a certain time, be able to see what this country, how it used to be. And for those that were born even before, it can remind us about what we can be. That's pretty much it. You're here because I wanted to meet you, and I almost met you at that movie guide thing four months ago. Oh, yeah. I gave some award, and then I'm sitting out there, and then I ran in the mark here, and he was like, oh, told me about the project. I'm like, oh, I'd love to say hello. And then you walked on stage called Chris Christopherson, which I love. Yeah, it was fun.

Funny, very funny. Right. And then you sang a song. And I said to Chuck, who was also there with me, I'm like, you know something, I'm always interested. The way terms change, the way definitions evolve. You're an actor, obviously, but I watched you sing that song. Yeah, I mean, that's another way to tell a story. but I don't think you were performing like an actor.

I felt like it seemed obvious to me that music played a huge role in your life. Yeah. And I don't know a ton about you. Still does. Well, yeah, always has. Why? Well, first thing I remember is like Elvis and Hank Williams and growing up in Houston was very eclectic, the kind of music that was there.

And I always just love music. It's been kind of the solution for me for a lot of things. the Beatles came along. And then I was, my grandfather bought me a guitar at Western Auto, by the way. When I was 12 years old, those guys sell everything. Those Western Auto guitars. I need a battery, a chassis, two tires, and a guitar. But, you know, first time I learned was light my fire.

I tried to learn because that's a real difficult song to learn on a guitar. And it's something as a teenager you can like, you could sit in your room alone and do it. You know, and... Been there. You know, acting, you've got to least have one other person. Otherwise, you just... Otherwise, it's kind of tragic. You've got to look in the mirror.

And there's only one other thing to do alone in my room. I was in there. See, if anybody's into that, that's okay. That's your choice. But, you know, it was... And, you know, it was... We're young. Great weight girls, you know.

Girls. Of course. Girls. And at the time, so... Well, that explains it's, 60 years ago, or 55 years ago. Yeah. But you're still doing it?

You're writing albums? Yeah, I wound up kind of actually putting the two together. You know, I had several movies that I wrote songs for and that, you know, were music-oriented. Jerry Lee Lewis, did you? And then wound up playing Jerry Lee Lewis. I didn't play the piano, but I, you know, had a year to learn it. And there's another one of those things about, you know, finding out makes people think Jerry Lee Lewis was my piano teacher.

That's a good one Yeah, that was good. Was he kind, impatient? He could be like a 14-year-old schoolyard bully, or he could be the most generous, sweetest man there was. Sounds like the guy named Pickett I heard about. I saw him sit at a piano when we were recording his soundtrack. He sat there for 10 hours and didn't get up even to pee.

What? Yeah. That's not to say he didn't pee. he just didn't get up. Depends. You were going to blink first. I can tell you that. But Jerry, Jerry, he carried around in his back pocket a 38 in his back pocket.

And in this pocket, he had a bottle of Seagram 7, a pint bottle that he soaked his pills in. Oh, my God. And you didn't want to take a drink of that bottle. There's no few people who did. But then he got sober the last 10 years of his life. Everybody thought he'd be the first to die, that he was going to be the first to go. He hung on.

He hung on. He was like 88. You know, he had a stroke, and then it was kind of downhill for a couple of years. But what a force, man. Nobody could play piano like that guy. He didn't play it, man. He hit it. Yeah.

It was an athlete. It was an athlete. experience playing Jerry Lee because you've got to get this left hand going. You know, and if you got that, you can pretty much do anything else. You know, Neil Young, he'd break half a dozen strings every night. He played so hard, you know. It's so interesting to see different musicians, different instruments. Like, there's no playbook for it.

I put Jerry Lee up against any concert pianist anywhere. Would you? Yes, I would. Did you ever... Yeah, he could... He was strong. He'd get hit it, but he was the most dexterous. of players that wasn't anything he could do. Did you ever hear him play?

He could play with his feet. He knows. He played with everything. Played with his feet. Well, so I've heard. He was alone in his room. What else he gonna do? He could only play chopsticks that way, but...

Just the right hand. I only need one hand for this. Jesus, a whiz, man. All right, so is there a new album? I did a gospel record last year that's been out. And actually, you know, on Amazon, it was number one there for quite a while. Nice.

It was even beating Taylor Swift for an entire week. Come on. Yes, it was. So the Swifties must have been really upset with you. Oh, well. Well, I listen. Must have been the parent trap, is what I say. You were a babysitter for a generation.

Yeah. That's what I tell those kids that, you know, they're now like 30. Yeah. About a parent trap. That I was your babysitter. You know. you watch that like 40 or 50 times and you know your parents put that on so they could go do what they wanted to do in the other room yeah right right make more of you make more of you

so funny so how long you've been sober 1990 wow yeah June 28th 1990 was it that's cocaine now you know I didn't do I didn't for 10 years I did what they told me to do but I do drink and alcohol was never my problem never a thing never my thing. So, I mean, I did go over 10 years without, without doing that because I, you know, wanted to get past all the stuff. But it was cocaine for me. That was the thing that I could just could not put away until it was all gone. If it was sitting there, I couldn't leave it until it was gone. I don't want to overreach, but I'm so interested. We've been having a lot of conversations on this thing about addiction and not drug addiction necessarily. I think addiction gets a bad rap,

frankly. Like, there are a lot of wonderful things to be addicted to. Yeah. Well, Well, I mean, cocaine was wonderful. Because it's three phases. Look, it's three phases. It's fun. That's the title, Chuck. Jot that down. It's fun.

Cocaine's wonderful. It's fun. Then it's fun with problems. And then it's just a bunch of problems. That's what any addiction is, the way it works on you, because it gets to a point where your life becomes, unmanageable, right? Well, happily, I don't have much experience with it. I think I've had some compulsions over the years. Yeah. But I haven't felt ever that there's been a chemical that had

that kind of hold on me. That's a lucky thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good thing. No, because I'm, you know, I live in the real world and I hope it wasn't weird when you walked in. I've got 300 bottles of Tennessee whiskey. It's quite a hello. Named after my dad. I was all right. I was all right. I'm I thought that was a memorial weekend left over, but that's all right. We're going to have a big time. Dennis Quaid's coming by. I got 300 of them. Yeah?

We're going to sign them all. But, well, I'll just ask. How did you do it? How did you break it? Actually, I had one of those white light experiences, to tell you the truth. By band of the time, we were playing the Palace Theater down there on Vine Street, and the record companies came that night, and we got our record deal. And then we, just like that movie, The Commitments.

We went back into the dressing room and we broke up. And we broke up because of me. You know, because it was just like, I was not handling myself right. I wasn't. And I was operating on an hour of sleep at night maybe. I didn't have things right. It really had affected my life to that point. And I went home and I had one of those white light experiences where I kind of saw myself losing everything

that I was either going to be dead in jail or. lose everything that was really dear to me in the next five years. And so the next day I went and checked myself in to a rehab facility at St. John's Hospital because they didn't have rehabs back then. They had one at CDC, which was in the basement. So this isn't like on the beach up in the mountains. No, it wasn't passages. Passages.

No, you're in a basement. It wasn't transitions. It wasn't pink cloud. It was the CDC in the basement of St. John's Hospital. Oh, man. And it was 28 days I was there and came out. And then that was great. You know, went to meetings like every day.

And for two years, I crown my teeth for like four years because the urge was still there. Yeah. It didn't go away. Did you replace it with anything? I replaced it with golf the day I got out of the rehab. I replaced it with golf, something to really obsess and get mad at myself about. There you go. It was more expensive.

Cucane or golf? That's a fair question. There's some parody there. Yeah. Yes. I guess you would say. But it was four years before that kind of compulsion. left me. And then it went away and it's gone.

He's never had it. Never had it come back. I can't imagine it. Yeah. Yeah. Shameless plug. Long before she was Peggy Roe, my mom was Peggy Noble, daughter of Carl and Thelma Noble. It was her father, Carl, who inspired me to pitch a show called Dirty Jobs to the Discovery Channel

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One day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. You know Jason Everman? ring any bells? No. He washed out of a couple bands. Pretty good guitar player, troubled kid, wrestled with all kinds of stuff,

but he got so close, and just, same thing, commitment left, got another band. Good guitar player. Same thing. The guy winds up going into the Rangers and fights in Kandahar

and the Push Tan. I mean, the guy is just a, I mean, truly becomes, American rock star. You know, and he's kind of a legend today. But the bands, Dennis, the first one was called Nirvana. And the second one was called Soundgarden.

Wow. So I have to laugh when you. So they thought he was like a little too much? No, he literally blew himself up. Yeah. He self-sabotaged every good thing that was happening to him. Wow. He just couldn't.

It sounds from everything I've read about the guy that he didn't think he deserved any good thing. And so I think a lot of people do that in relative terms. You know, they don't necessarily do it with seminal rock bands. Yeah, with him and I think with all of us too, is we're in search of our purpose. And sometimes you don't know what that purpose is. And if you ask God for it, you better be careful

because he just might give it to you. Not in the way that you thought. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, this rhymes. wonderfully, you know, when you think about a guy like Jason who finally finds his purpose on the other side of the earth running special ops and you think of a guy like Reagan, his hawking appliances and book and rolls he doesn't need and still getting pissed off

because he's in the 94% tax bracket, but he's not meaning, purpose. He also became president at the exact right moment in history. Right. this country. We'd been through Watergate, went through all that. Jimmy Carter came along, who I voted for, by the way, because it was a change. He was honest. There was this, you know, kind of like common man thing. And it was like, but we went down a road. You could say, argue, well, it was his fault. He was in the office, so he was stewarding it, but it was also the times with the oil and gas and the malaise that took over this country. And, you know,

He even said so himself on television about the malaise that had taken over. And we were country in declined. We were. You know, that started from the Vietnam era. And Reagan came along, and that was the perfect time for him to, he told us that, you know, there's a light. And America is a beacon on a hill. And it's morning. Morning in America.

We are not in a nation undecline. We are a nation that is just getting started, renewing itself. I met the guy who wrote that, The Ad Man. Yeah. How Riney was his name. Yeah, that was a good one. Probably the most brilliant ad in all of politics. It's the number one.

In political history. Yeah. Political history, for sure. What do you reckon the greatest ad is? Just like the ads that stick. I'm fascinated by advertising. Yeah, me too. Just because in the end, that is our business.

We can't arbitrage, you know, the filthy lucre out of the art. You know, they need each other. You know, I think the most brilliant advertiser of recent history is Elon Musk. Because he didn't do anything. Yeah. He didn't do anything with a Tesla. No, we're advertising. No ads.

None. All he did was name it after. The true. king of electricity Nicholas Tesla Yeah Yeah Yeah

No that's a great point You know I work for a company That didn't and still doesn't advertise Straight to the consumer Caterpillar Right Because all you have to do is drive down the highway And there's a big hunk of yellow iron

You know and people get it And they know it And it's funny to me Oh Budweiser Remember this Bud's for you Yeah That was I think maybe the greatest tagline

because this is another way of saying thanks. Just thanks, man. Yeah. You know. It's true. So, you know, when I think of what a good ad man can do with a political campaign or with a consumer product, 20% off GE, having a sale. You know, your business is not so different.

You make decisions. You market yourself. We're all commodities. We're all brands. And that's kind of what Mr. Pickett taught us back in his acting class, too, that, you know, as an actor, what you get to know yourself and what you have to offer as an actor about what roles you can play and stuff and what you would be right for because you're a commodity. And so that's what you're going out to sell to people. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel?

Yourself. Well, I mean, John Wayne was such a great example, obviously. And so those guys, they didn't, like, how do you feel about that? When you have the level of trust that comes with being a brand like John Wayne, he rarely went outside of that lane. I can't think of much, really. I mean, he was always the good guy, essentially. Yeah. You know, always wrapped in some kind of virtue. Yeah. And then you got like a Jim Carrey.

Yeah, Rooster Cogburn was like the closest he ever got to bad. Closest. But he was still infused with so much righteousness. Yeah. But, you know, he was like, it was almost in some of the movies, though, you hated him. He was, you got to understand it's like the searchers. John Ford. Natalie Wood.

Yeah. You know, and it's the, the. the Comanchee have killed the parents, burned the home, and he goes, taking his niece hostage, and he goes after her. When he finds her,

he's almost going to kill her, because she's been ruined. You know, the rage that he had, he could play rage, really, John Wayne. And then,

Red River. The man who shot Liberty Valance, he was very jaded in that. So he was nuanced, but he basically played, you know, He didn't take any... He had no patience for fools.

Pretty good chess player, too, from what I read. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think where I was going was, you come to trust a brand in the way you come to trust an actor to deliver a certain kind of experience. And if it's Jim Carrey, like, it's a comedian,

I want to laugh. He's funny, funny, funny, funny. And then he gives you eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Yeah. So, like, as a performer, do you look at that and go, okay, that's too much cognitive dissonance?

go, wow, good for him for stretching and making me think differently. I say, you know, he's done so much for the studios that if he wants to do something, let him do something. Yeah, there's no guarantee, and that doesn't mean that the audience has to accept him in that role. Yeah. You know, I think all actors, it's never changed, really. Remember Tyrone Power? Sure.

I like to ask people, do you know who Tyrone Power was? Yeah. He was Tom Cruise. He was a badass. You know? what I'm saying is, you know, Humphrey Bogart was Jack Nicholson. George Clooney goes to Kerry Grant or...

Tom Hanks? Tom Hanks is Jimmy Stewart. There you go. The icons are the same. It's like the pantheon of Greek gods that each star fills within that pantheon in the studio. And so you just have different people.

There becomes a position available. Right. When somebody retires or gets too old. Table for two, right? So, you know, somebody else fills that role, whether it's the femme fatale, you know, they go with this, to that, the other. And it's always been that way. They didn't come to me until later on in life.

But as... Who did you replace? There you go. Yeah, that's a good one. It's kind of hard to say, to tell you the truth. kind of tough to say. You do occupy some really interesting real estate now that I think about...

Maybe I'm still looking for a position. Maybe we're still trying it on. Well, I mean, look, there is a certain amount of ambiguity, right? I mean, it's 150 movies? Yeah, about that. Getting close. How many plays? How many plays?

I'd say two and a half. Well, hang on a second. Plays, what are you talking of? Backwater of Entertainment? The Backwater of Entertainment. Hang on a second. At 1984, 1984, 1985, True West off Broadway with your brother.

And I did that play for six months in New York. Okay. Another six out here. That was fantastic. And I did a couple of other shows in New York and did a lot of theater. That's how I started with it was in theater in college. Well, I was going to say. Which is a great way to start.

I was going to college in New York at the time. My brother came to visit me. We went to see you and Randy do that show. Yeah. And we came backstage and actually met. I didn't tell you this before. Yeah. Because we thought we were very clever.

It's like, hey, we're a couple of brothers who are going to see a show about two brothers who are played by two real brothers. Yeah, we'd tell you to get lost. Pretty much. Pretty much, yeah. But we did get backstage. Actually, you were very gracious. Both of you were very nice.

Yeah, that was fantastic theater to do that into the Cherry Lane Theater. And it was what a great time in New York in the pre-age 80s. I don't think that was pre-age. That was 84 or 85. It was a simple time. Oh, yeah, they were in. You know what, man? It was the thick of it.

They called it something else, man. They called it Grid. Yes, right. Remember Grid? Yeah. Gay-related infectious disease, I think. Yeah. I was thinking of that the other day because, you know, with the COVID and the lockdowns

and what a time, man, to know there's a thing out there, a reaper of some kind, and to not have a name quite yet for it, and to not understand what it is or what it does. Exactly about AIDS. I'm talking about both. I'm talking about COVID. I'm talking about AIDS. I'm talking about it could be Ebola. Like before you put a name to a thing.

And the thing is still undeniably real. I mean, that's the stuff of monsters. Yeah. AIDS was really scary. It was so insidious. And it was like for gay people, it really became a really horrible thing of getting further removed from society. And there was a lot of hate out there about that.

And a lot of fear. a lot of fear. People were dying and, you know, alone. And during COVID, it was the same thing. People would just, people wouldn't touch you. They would put you into a hospital room and you would. Three million people died alone in hospitals. I know.

Charlie Pride was one of them. We were going to do his life story. He went to get a lifetime achievement award in Nashville and got AIDS. And the next thing you know, he's, you know, separated from the. That was a loss, man. You know who else was a loss recently? It was John Prine. Yeah.

It's funny because I had reconnected with John Prine and I had connected with Charlie and both of them within months just went just like that. John was actually one of the first that died in this country that was kind of a known person because he had been in Italy

It was on the road in Italy, and it hit there first. You remember we were seeing the pictures of Italy and everybody in their homes. Crazy. And, gosh, I don't think we've actually digested it yet, really. I think we're still just trying to put it over there. Yeah, it's too sad. Yeah. In a way.

It was traumatic for everyone. Yeah. I remember, you didn't know John Prine, but we talked about him at length one day because he wrote the saddesty. song. I thought the name sounded familiar. That's, uh, there's a hole in daddy's arm. That's it. Yeah. Sam Stone. There's a hole in daddy's arm. We're all the money goes. Oh my God. Incredible. Yeah. So, wait for it. I'm building tension. Oh, I know. I'm building tension. Two ears, one mouth. Sure, sure. Don't worry, man. Just laughing. That's all. I'll land the plane. Just chuckling. I'm just trying to figure out how to wrap this up without making it

awkward for the guy. Yeah. Well, whatever you do, don't tell him that. Well, look, there are a couple things going through my mind right now. Like how long we've been talking. Well, that's one. I'm guessing an hour and 12 minutes. That's pretty close. Yeah, pretty close. You know, I used to be an actor. I know what an hour, 12 minutes feels like. I guess you do.

Feels like that last pause we just had is what that feels like. Could have driven a truck through that thing there. Well, that's why I left. Including the go-around. What would Mr. Pickett say in a moment like that? There's a whole of his... Give yourself an obstacle. An obstacle?

Yeah, an obstacle to overcome. But he said obstacle for something. some reason. Give yourself an obstacle. An obstacle. Here's what distracting me. I don't know what the protocol is. I noticed the guitar. I'm like, oh, God, does he want to sing his gospel song, or is that weird? No pressure,

but it's there. All my way to heaven? You want to do, please don't. That song I did for I thought that was a great song. For Christofferson? Yeah. It was written about him. Why? Actually, well, he wound up doing a song of mine, which may or may not be the last song that he records.

But it's... God, is that even remotely in too? He did a song of mine called All My Way to Heaven, which is a... Oh, yeah. It's a gospel song that he and Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle are on. And it's coming out this year. Nice. Yeah.

And so we went to dinner afterwards, and his wife said, Nobody ever calls John. They live over in Hawaii. And because they think he's a legend and he won't talk to him. So he wants people to call him. He's lonesome. Yeah.

So that's what I do now, Mac, when I do this song, I say, I went home and wrote this song and then when I do it, I say, we're all going to call Chris and say hello. Tell him he's a legend. Please don't call me a legend. My humble life's not through.

It's got a beginning, a middle, but there still ain't no end to what I might yet do. I might just if I climb all the Himalayas, plant a flag on a planet or two. But if you call me legend again, please wait until I'm in my tomb. And please don't treat me special. It makes me feel alone I cannot be the simple person that I've always been If you put me up on some throne I'm quite capable of making my own mistakes

And I'm not afraid of failure So if you call me legend again I might just have to see you later Oh please don't call me legend It makes me feel like I already died That's just a third-hand story About some has been And it's probably a lie

So I'll just keep on keeping on trucking Yeah Year after year And if you call me legend again I might just have to box your ears You know I will I might just have to see you later Bye, bye.

I might just have to see you later. Thank you very much. And the crowd goes wild. Mark your calendars. Reagan, the movie. It's coming out the end of August. You'll be hearing a lot more about it. Your album is called...

It's called Fallen, a gospel record for sinners. They called it that because I wanted to get the biggest audience possible. Nailed it. Nailed it. All right. Well, folks, if you've sinned today or are planning on it, going to be in your room all by yourself, trying to figure out what to do, maybe play the guitar, maybe play the piano, maybe, who knows? Who knows? Just always remember, it's better not

to be the horse all tied up there in the barnyard for the aspiring veterinarian to come by. Keep on picking that thing because you never know where your dreams are going to go. And as my grandpa used to say, it ain't going to pick itself, friends. See you next week. All right. If you're done, please subscribe. Leave some stars. ideally five five lousy little star

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