The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 505: Brooke Rollins—Where's the Beef?

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

This is a two-parter in one episode! Part One was recorded in May, when Mike sat down with Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins to talk about her vision for American agriculture, the challenges facing farmers and ranchers, and the future of food production in America. Four months later, Mike needed to follow up after President Trump's proclamation calling for 300,000 metric tons of additional beef imports—a decision that was met with concern by many American ranchers. So, Part Two was recorded in September. Mike asks the Secretary to explain the decision, what it means for American ranchers, and what it means for consumers. Two conversations, recorded months apart, with a lot more in common than you might expect. Big thanks to our awesome sponsors GoodRanchers.com/ROWE—100% of their meat comes from American farms and ranches and delivered straight to your door. Start your plan and get a FREE Ground Beef Bundle with your firs order. PureTalk.com/ROWE—Switch your phone service today and get UNLIMITED high-speed data for just $34.99 a month and save an additional 50% off your first month. Digs.com/MIKE—The digital operating system for your house. Less rework. Less confusion. And a much smoother build experience for homeowners. Get 40% off your first 3 months

Hello, friends. Welcome to the way I heard it. My guest today is Brooke Rollins, the Secretary of Agriculture in these United States. The episode is called Where's the Beef? You remember that woman, right? Clara was her name? Claire Pellar, I think, made that expression famous back in the early 80s. It's a phrase that's been on my mind here of late ever since. The president signed a proclamation a couple of weeks ago, allowing 300,000. and metric tons of ground beef to come into the American food supply from various countries around the world. This is big news in the agriculture business. I've heard from a lot of ranchers and a lot of farmers who I'm friendly with and opinions are very strong. And a lot of people are talking about this. I pointed out because none of this was going on when I interviewed Brooke a couple of months ago at the Reagan Library. She was running to catch a flight and very graciously agreed to sit and talk with me for a half hour. But that's all the time she had. And then a month or so after that, when we were about to post the conversation, this news broke.

And I just felt weird putting the conversation on the podcast and not addressing the biggest story in agriculture with the secretary of agriculture. So I called Brooke back and said, look, can we just hop on a quick Zoom? Because I really need to ask you about this. It's a huge story. And of course, she said yes. So what you're about to hear is a podcast of typical length. I think the whole thing will probably last an hour. But it happens in two parts. The first part was recorded at the Reagan Library a couple of months ago.

The second part was just recorded very recently in the wake of this proclamation that President Trump signed. Both conversations, I think, are really interesting. The first one is kind of general about all things agriculture. The second one is a bit more pointed around our meat supply, our beef supply. Where's the beef, you might ask? It's pretty much everywhere. How can you tell the difference between American beef and beef that's imported from another country? That's a question we'll dive into because it's not as easy as you think.

Anyway, it's the Secretary of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins. Where's the beef? I'll show you right after this. Do do do do do do do dumb. It's appropriate that Good Ranchers is a sponsor of this episode and maybe a bit ironic as well because the administration has just allowed foreign countries to ship 300,000 metric tons of ground beef into the American food supply. I'll ask Secretary Rollins why that's happening and how the decision is impacting America's ranchers. But right now I just want to take a moment to remind you that American ranchers.

really do raise the best meat on the planet. But they face more challenges than most business owners can even begin to contemplate or relate to, including the preposterous policy that allows meatpackers to deceptively label their foreign-grown beef as product of the USA and then sell it in American grocery stores. I'll ask the secretary about that as well, because honestly, that is seriously corrupt in my view, which is why you should know that Good Ranchers is the number one company in America that delivers 100% American meat. Right to your door. They partner with over 100 local farmers and ranchers to deliver pasture-raised meat with no antibiotics, no added hormones. They got 25,000 five-star reviews on Trust Pilot, including my own. This month, when you visit

good ranchers.com slash row, you get a free Angus ground beef bundle with your first order. Again, that's good ranchers.com slash row for four bonus pounds of American raised ground beef. Guaranteed. Support your local ranchers by insisting on American meat delivered at good ranchers.com slash row. If you could eat a steer, if you could eat a cow, don't take a chance on a foreign ranch. Get good ranchers now. A-ha! All right, well, this is Brooke.

Brooke Rollins. Hello, yes. Brooke. You're very important. No. You know, you're critically important. You're the Secretary of Agriculture. This is true.

And you've been in that position now since this. 14 months, yes. February 13th, I raised my hand and Justice Clarence Thomas swore me in. What was the oath like? You know what? What do they make a Secretary of Agriculture swear to do? That amazing thing. I was up in the National Archives looking at what George Washington,

had his soldiers swear to in 1775, 1776, and it is basically the same oath from back then. Is that not amazing? Just I solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution to not, you know, be beholden to other foreign adversaries. So help me God. It's really cool. How important is it, like whether it's a pledge to the flag or the Boy Scout oath, how important is it for a person to do that in their life at some? point. And I don't mean a marriage, Val. That feels different to me. But like a promise to yourself, a problem like a code. You know, it's like when we grew up, we're probably about the same age.

When we grew up, we did the Pledge of Allegiance every single day, swearing an oath to the country. All of course are amazing men and women in uniform do it. I think that as we look at our 250th birthday, basically, and this sort of reinvigoration and this revivifying of the American spirit. You know, I look at across our cabinet, I look at Pete Hegseth and what he's doing to inspire those young men and women to, our recruiting is up. It's broken records the last year and a half. I will say, that's so much cool stuff. That's amazing. It really is. And so this love of country and Memorial Day was just Monday had one of my kids is going to be a senior at Texas A&N. Lemys and the Corps cadets, brought some friends up.

And just this kind of energy and rededication to, frankly, to God, but and to country by this next generation is really inspiring. And I think hopefully that continues. I did a show for a long time called Dirty Jobs. Yes, very familiar. Big fan. For the record, I was the number one welder at Glenrose High School, Texas in 1990. I won the Welding Award. Now, I'm going to ask you a sexist question.

Okay, please. Number one female welder or number one welder? No, this was 1990. There were no male and female awards. It was, you go all in. No, it was, yeah, the number one welder. My ag teacher, Mr. Rosenbush, I'm still very close with 34 years later. I'll never forget, he told me when I graduated, and he announced the award in front of the whole high school.

It was a tiny little rural high school in Texas. Most didn't go to college. And he said, you know, Brooke, I think you're going to go on to do pretty cool things. And I had a future farmer of America scholarship to study agriculture at Texas A&M. He said, but if it doesn't work out, you know that welders make more than most with a college degree. And I've never forgotten that. And even now, I like look at beads on different things that are built. And I have to say, I was a pretty good welder.

Why do you think it's such a consequential trade? Well, there is no America without the hard, the skilled labor, the builders and the welders and the tradesmen. I mean, that's what our country was built. I mean, for me, I'm repping farmers and ranchers, right? I mean, this is food security, farm security is national security. And so that ethos, right, that building and that welding and that construction job, that's what's best about our country from my perspective.

And those are the jobs that are going to keep us going. I mean, I think a welding as, well, I mean, it's the ultimate. connecting trade. I mean, you're joining things. Yes. You know? And we've had, I don't know, that's genius. Like 3,500 people go through a microworks and a big chunk of them are welders. And the thing that always struck me, and I'll make this relevant in a second, is the way a welding certification so often leads to a plumbing certification and then electric. And then, and the next thing, you know, you bought a ban. And now you hired your buddies. And now it's HVAC. And now you got a mechanical contracting company. Way leads on the way, right?

That's right. And it so often starts, from what I've seen anyway, with welding. With respect to your own career. I mean, what are you doing here? How did this? I don't know. Wait, wait, what just happened? I don't know.

The president calls and says he wants me to be the secretary of agriculture. Why is the president call you? So without the way too long boring story, I mean, raised by a single mom, went to college on a scholarship, basically a first-gen college student, studied agriculture. had a heart and a fire for my country that my mom instilled, but also I just think it was probably a God thing. And so I went off to A&M, loved people and public service. And A&M lit a fire in me.

It was an all-male military school, more Medal of Honor winners from there than anywhere about the three academies, more officers in World War II than anyone, including the academies. I mean, so that the spirit, and again, I'm single mom, three little girls, barely made it, right? Struggle, struggle, struggle. Graduate from high school. Go way far away, the other end of the earth from my rural town two hours.

But it was like I was leaving the world. And A&M and the Future Farmers, honestly, really just inspired me. I thought I'd be a stay-at-home mom. That was kind of what I wanted to do. Sorry, how long were you in Future Farmers? Well, all of high school, obviously. And then I worked for the National FFA through college, kind of organizing and leadership. But long story short, I ended up in Rick Perry's first term as governor running his policy shop.

I went to law school at Texas, so as a general counsel. Then I basically launched the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which is sort of the free market, conservative, Texas first think tank in Texas. Never thought I would leave. Took it from me to about 150 employees. Move Texas toward freedom, deregulation, more prosperity, more jobs, more trades. and anywhere in the country at the time, those were during the Obama years, got a call from the first Trump White House,

you know, hey, can you come up here and basically build in the West Wing what you built in Texas? And I said, I have a third grader, fifth grader, sixth grader, and eighth grader. My husband runs an energy company. I'm not, I can't move to D.C., but I'll keep helping you.

And long story short, I was convinced by the president and others to come up in that first term, ended up being his domestic policy chief, so built out his entire policy agenda, was ready for the second term. Second term didn't happen. I built a new think tank called the America First Policy Institute to basically take what we learned in that first term, build the infrastructure to make sure that America didn't slip back into what I believe is the radical left agenda.

And in that interim, the president and I, President Trump and I, and others, but I was one of his core kind of sounding boards. We started talking about his cabinet, probably 23, 24. If he was going to win, who would go where he loves to do this. He's like, what about so-and-so in this role? And how about that person in this role? Did you know him prior to him reach out? No, well, obviously from the first term. I was obviously, you know, his first domestic or in his domestic policy chief.

But no, it was Jared Kushner and others. I'd done a lot of work in criminal justice reform. I'm a hardcore conservative, but it made no sense to me that 95% of those in jail are coming back out. And more than half of those are nonviolent drug offenders. And if we just gave them a chance with training and a chance. chance to actually live a righteous life that they would choose that. It's just they didn't really, a lot of them didn't have a chance. So did a lot of changes in Texas on that and closed a bunch of prisons. Crime rate went way down. So that's, I got a call on that from the first White House because

Jared Kushner is very interested in that and ended up helping them build their deregulatory agenda, their tax cut agenda, because I'd done it all in Texas. What's that to have to do with agriculture? Well, so this is where the story goes. So building out what would be perhaps the president's cabinet if he were to win again. This is during the interim. And in all the conversations, and he would say, you know, Brooke, let's just say we win. What do you think about energy? What do you think about education? You know what? Where are we in all this? And I say, absolutely not. At this point now, I have high school kids. And it just isn't on my bingo card. And for right now, at least. And anyway, he wins. The cabinet gets set. I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly,

But the cabinet gets set, and the final spot is agriculture. And he caused Thursday night right before Thanksgiving. And right after we won. So November 5th is the election. This is probably the 18th or 19th of November. He's named everybody else. And he called me to talk about two of his announcements that day. Scott Turner was housing, who's wonderful.

He should be on your show if he hasn't been one of my dearest friends. And Pam Bondi for Attorney General. So he called to talk about that. It's like at midnight. And isn't this great? You know, I'm getting such a great. And he'd said... Midnight, your time?

Texas time? Yeah. Midnight, his time, 11 o'clock, my time. The midnight, Palm Beach time. And he said, man, Gali, would you really wish you'd think about ag? And of course, he knew I had some ag background. He knew I was an ag major.

Did he say Gali? I'm just trying to pick... He didn't say Gali. That was probably my answer. But anyway, and then... Gali, Brooke? I paused for a second. Yeah, exactly.

Brooke. And the next thing I know, I'm the new secretary of agriculture. But let me say this, Mike. It was not anything. I've never really planned much of me. It's not what I had ever thought about. But looking back now, it is the best, most righteous artist. But it's the honor of a lifetime to represent this way of life, right?

To represent those who feed and fuel us. it's a national security issue at this point. My relationship with the president and with our full cabinet is such that I can work across the cabinet to get things done for our farmers and ranchers. Would you learn from future farmers of America? And do you remember the oath you took in that organization? I remember, Madam President, why are you stationed by the rising sun? I'm stationed by the rising sun because it represents a new era in agriculture,

an era of words, deeds, not just words, and blah, blah, blah, I can't do the whole thing, but oh, yeah, I know, it's here forever. I mean, since we started with an oath, it strikes me. I spoke at the FFA National Convention. Oh, they love you. I saw that. I saw you. 2008.

Yes, I remember. I tried to get in touch with you after that. I thought you were so good. You didn't try that hard. I actually did. You didn't try that hard. I did. I tried to get you to come speak at one of my events in Texas, and it was like $8 million.

It was speaking fee was maybe $10 million. I was like, he's way out of my league. We had three easy payments that we wouldn't. extended with very attractive interest. No, you know what? You know what killed me about that? Those are your people. Well, I mean, there were 20,000 of them at least in that auditorium. And right before I went on stage, one of the organizers came up.

And I was looking through a brief, you know, and on the first page, it literally said, and this broke my heart, I better break yours to it. It said, the Future Farmers of America is now officially referred. referring to itself as FFA. Yeah. And I said, why, um, it's not. Why are you doing that? Yeah.

Long story short, it's like, look, our organization depends on our ability to recruit. And the word farmer had actually become a pejorative or an impediment to their ability to recruit because it just came with so many old stigmas and stereotypes. Yeah, yeah. And I mentioned dirty jobs because fundamentally that show was a tribute to agriculture and mining. That's what it was. Yeah. So my question is, what happens to a country who forgets where its food comes from?

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And it is a country that no longer knows freedom. That's how important this is. What's Brazil doing? Brazil has China through Brazil, arguably, has now taken our soybean market, our corn market, our cotton market, and controls about half of our beef processing in America. There's a lot of challenges. It isn't just Brazil, but we have offshoreed American. agriculture for the last 30 years. And if we don't reverse that trajectory, China's buying

our farmland. China owns our biggest seed company. Half of our fertilizer, we rely on Russia. And I mean, this is unsustainable. What is going on right now with fertilizer? It's unsustainable. Well, we're with the good news that the bad news is prices are high, not as high as they were in Biden, even with the Iranian conflict, but they are too high. But the good news is it has allowed us to shine a light on how we've offshoreed that fertilizer and we've got to fix it. So two months ago, I had Chris Wright, talk about working across our cabinet, our energy secretary and Howard Lutnik, our commerce secretary, both with pots of money for energy. And I said, fertilizer is energy. And I called the Army Corps of Engineers, great people over there, General Bich Graham, I said, instead of your two-year permitting process to get new fertilizer plants, we need about 45 days.

And they said, we're in. And so a few weeks ago, we just announced the largest ammonium plant is breaking ground in about 30 days in Louisiana. the largest potash plant in the world. Ammonia in the world. Potash in the world is breaking ground soon after that. Also in Louisiana, we have mass, about 90 plants, small to big, going in all across the country. As a result of this offshoring to now to reshore back to our country. So we're going to solve it.

Please explain to Joe Blow from Minneapolis why he should give a damn about an ammonia plan. In Louisiana. Yeah. Make it relevant. It makes sense. Yeah. Today, nine out of ten of our farmers are not economically prosperous without the government stepping in.

Nine out of ten. And, Mike, everyone in America should understand that the minute we start relying on China or Brazil or other countries for our food supply, that is the minute that we lose our freedom, period, full stop. And we live in the greatest country in the history of the world. We're celebrating our 250th birthday. the challenge, though, is we don't play the 100-year game, like a China or a Russia does. We play the two-year game, right?

Now, this is why I love my boss so much because the second term is about the 100-year plan. He's not worried. I mean, he is worried. We want to obviously keep the House. We would be a disaster if we have to move into impeachment full-time. And we want to keep the White House in two and a half years so we can keep doing this righteous work. But he's also making decisions that most politicians under our political system would not make. because they are short-term pain for these long-term decisions that he's making.

But I believe in him and his vision so strongly. All right, wait. Nine out of ten people who feed 330 million people three times a day. 90% of farmers can't survive without government help. That's right. And that comes in a lot of ways, right? A lot of loans, a lot of low-interest loans, getting from one season to the next and the next. You know, the government USDA comes in and pays for fencing and things.

You know, it's interesting. Before this job, I'm a very pure free marketer, right? The government should be this big. We should be doing military and building roads. You know, if I can get you out of your shell, I think you could do extraordinary things. I know. I know. I know.

I know. Well, listen, this is just a quick sidebar. I've avoided D.C. all my life. Yes, fair. And politics. That's legit. In general. Yes.

But this administration has paid attention to my foundation in ways that's new to me. Yeah. So I've had a chance to talk with a lot of people, including all the names you dropped earlier and a few others. They're amazing. I will say to a man and a woman, you guys work. Yeah. You guys. Seven days a week.

Seven days a week, late at night. Yep. 20 hours a day. The fact that that call came at midnight that you were talking about before, it doesn't, it doesn't shock me. But the other thing is, a lot of people in your orbit left going concerns. Yeah. Like big consequential businesses to do this. That's right.

So, I mean, when I say out of your, obviously I'm joking, but I mean, you've, you've, you've, back to the oath. Yeah. You must give a damn on a level that really has not much to do with money. Mike, we sit in that cabinet room. We just had our 12th meeting on Wednesday. We sit in that room before the media comes in, for the cameras come screaming in. And it's just us.

It's just us and the president, the vice president. And you can feel the respect and the love and just the family. This hopefully doesn't sound too nutty. But I feel like it's 1776 again, and we are in a revolution, and we are fighting for the very soul of freedom and for our country. And I think I speak for all of us when I say that, that we feel it, and we feel it's this moment in American history that may never happen again. And if we don't get it right, we don't spend every waking hour of every day for four years getting it right, then our country will be lost. And the president's the one who leads the way on that, but we feel it very, very. very deeply. Well, the president for whom this library is named, I believe, I mean, he was the one who said it,

right? It's a generation away. It is. 1964. Always a generation away. Yeah. Yep. And earlier you said that food security was national security. National security is freedom. Yep. And so that's why it matters. Yeah. So what are we going to do to get more farmers less reliant? Yeah. More farmers, more independent. Are you worried about the family farm? Are you worried about the giant? I lose sleep over the family farm. I lose sleep over it. The consolidation that's happened in agriculture by big agriculture. And I don't want to be careful. Listen, these big American companies, I'll be real ugly about the non-American companies. But the big American companies, they do feed the world. And they are built and run by great Americans, entrepreneurs. They employ a lot of people. They've kept a lot of farms and business sometimes, but it's that family farm that we've lost tens of thousands of. If we don't open the market back up to this next generation and perhaps first or second generation farmers, then not only do we, I believe, we lose the national security of the freedom.

We also lose this entire way of life. And can I give you an example? Sure. That hopefully will inspire people that are listening. I went to Albuquerque, New Mexico a couple months ago, two brothers in their 30s. dad's a doctor, mom's a professor, I think at the University of New Mexico. They're very highly trained and educated, but they decided they wanted to be farmers. No farming in their background at all.

And so 10 years ago, they bought three acres of basically desert. It's New Mexico. They built a little warehouse, and one on top of the other, they're growing organic heads of lettuce. And every year, they produce 250,000 heads of lettuce, the two of them, and they have six employees, and they support their families, they support their six employees families, they sell healthy lettuce to the local school, and that's the way, right? We have to continue being the bread basket. We have to continue supporting our big guys. I think that's really important. But there is, with this Make America Healthy Again movement, with Bobby and I, Bobby's now like my best buddy,

Bobby and I work very hand-and-glove together every day. How do we get Americans to eat real food, to eat locally grown food to solve for our chronic health crisis in this country. Are you surprised, by the way? The farmers, the middle of that. Are you surprised that the two of you have become the two of you? Also not on my bingo card, to be fair. We were both voted on and sworn in on the same day, just happenstance, maybe providential, but I'd say happenstance, coincidence.

February 13th, 2024, the very next day, Politico, which is a left-leaning, you know, media, outlet in Washington ran a huge story showing a wedding cake about the first divorce that's going to happen in the Trump administration. And at the top is me and all my big huge hair and Bobby on the other side with a knife coming right down the middle of the wedding cake with us falling apart. In fact, the exact opposite has happened. He has been the best partner. We don't agree on everything. You know, he comes from a very different world in many ways than I come from. but he fundamentally understands that agriculture is the path to making America healthy again, and the farmers are the only way he's going to be able to do it.

So he's been remarkable. It's been an incredible partnership. How do you think about the level of, I'm not even sure with the right. It's not food uncertainty. It's the suspicion, I think, that a lot of people who kind of pay attention and who want to do right by their kids, we just don't know what to buy anymore. Right. I mean, thank God the ingredients are there, but where's the interpreter to help explain what this means?

And what is it with the seed oils? And why is sugar in everything? Why are we eating 200 pounds of sugar a year? And so I hadn't really thought about it, but it's obvious. That Maha agenda in your office are hand and glove. And before you answer, I know you've got a flight to catch. I do. And you've got to tell me when you've got to go, because I'll sit your sun goes down and your people will freak up.

Four minutes. You got four minutes. Four minutes. All right. All right. Say something unforgettable in four minutes. Say something unforgettable in four minutes. So the maha, the healthy food, the three out of four young Americans who have chronic health, pre-diabetic, who can't pass the military readiness test. These are existential issues for our country. But the good news with this moment in American history, with this president at our 250 is we're actually making status quo. breaking, busting steps to change the country, and I believe perhaps the world forever. And I mentioned 1776. I don't say it lightly. I do believe there are moments in American history where you're at this sort of crosspoint. Are we going to go towards, as Reagan said,

this thousand years of darkness, which is where arguably we were headed? Or do you choose light and freedom? Sometimes that's hard. You know, we're fighting big media. We're fighting big business, we're fighting big government. Around every corner, we're battling. But I do believe we're winning. And I think that's what's so encouraging. And listen, the work that you do for years now, you were way ahead of us.

You know, Trump came in and said, I believe in the worker and the tradesmen, the skilled trade. But up until that point, you were kind of the only dude who was saying, not everybody needs to go to college, right? Like, what are we doing for our skilled workforce? And how are we supporting that? And what kind of infrastructure are we building for that? I remember it very well when you started this, what, 25 years ago?

About that. It's about 23, the show went on the air. But I'll tell you, when it really started for me, was it future Farmers of America. Unbelievable. It was standing backstage and hearing that the preeminent youth-based organization to magnify and elevate farmers had come to the conclusion that that word had become an impediment to their own prime directive. And that's when I was like, holy crap. If that's happening in ag, because I've been saying the same thing about the skilled trades, and all the stigmas and the stereotypes that have conspired to leave the country with the feeling

that that kind of work, those kinds of jobs are not for my kids. And all that farming thing, whatever they do, God bless them. But we're so spoiled. We're so used to see in the shelves full. We're so used to see the lights come on. We flick the switch and the crap go away. We flush the toilet. It's just there.

It's just there, you know? And so, look, I'm with you. I'm optimistic. It's a great country. I would just say in closing that the people you mentioned, who you feel like you're fighting with, and you clearly are, I don't think they see themselves as the bad guy. No, I agree with that. And I think that the thing we can do to make a view like this, you know, to earn it is to somehow or another. I don't know how to do it either, but we can't possibly be as divided as we can't.

Let me answer that. When you take the key issues and you take off, I've been doing this for a long time, you take off the R or the D or the blue or the red, 80% of Americans do want a secure border. 80% of Americans do believe in a health care system where the patient and the doctor are the center of it. 80% of Americans do think that the government is too big and they're taking too much. of our tax dollars. We have become so divisive because of our system, and again, the best system in the world, but imperfect, the minute we can start just talking about policies outside of the noise and the elections and the campaigns and all of that, that is when we are, I believe,

at our best. I think that's what Reagan really stood for and did a remarkable job. I'll finish with this. One of the most inspiring things I've ever read that has actually colored my life for since I was a teenager, is an interview that Reagan gave right after he left the White House. And I'll never forget it. I probably read it. He left in 88. I was a junior in high school. And I read it and it said, I walk into a room and I immediately look to see who's sitting around the table disagrees with me the most or has said the ugliest things about me or has been the biggest obfuscator for what I'm trying to achieve. And that's who I go sit by every time. And I thought, that's so good. And that's that. That's true. And that's how you change a lot of this, I think. So we're working on it. But at the same time, you have to battle for what's right. And that's what we're doing. Team of rivals. Yes, exactly. Well, 80% of your security detail says, time to go. We've got a whole cadre, don't we? A phalanx, I believe it is. I really appreciate your time. I'm sorry, it took so long to do this. It's a shame you couldn't afford me way back when.

I know. You're very expensive. I am pricey. The suede jacket. basically says everything you need to know. You've got to charge really high fees to look like this. This came for my own cow. Killed it myself, ate it, and now I'm wearing it. Well, even, that's my love language. Yeah, that's, that's my language. Thank you, Mike. You're awesome. Really great to be here. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Remember, even though we just said goodbye, the secretary is not really gone. Our conversation will continue right after this with a discussion on the latest presidential proclamation to allow 300, thousand metric tons of foreign ground beef into this country. Can't wait to hear what she has to say about that.

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See how they can simplify your life today. And get 40% off for your first three months. That's digs, d-I-G-S dot com slash Mike. Can you dig it? First of all, thank you sincerely for jumping back on. I so loved the conversation we had a couple months ago. But as you obviously know, the news. It just keeps breaking, and I just had to get your take on a couple other thoughts.

No, I'm so happy. This is really awesome for me, too. So no, anytime. And now that I've got my iPad set up, I've got all the apps set up, and I don't need to blur the background anymore. I think we're in good shape. Well, regarding the background, what in the world am I looking at? Did somebody rob the MoMA, or was it the Louvre?

I know. Listen, Mike, this is very, very big-time, expensive fine art we have behind me. This is the portrait my daughter did of me when she was five, which I think is lovely. My husband says it looks like it's out of a murder, a horror movie, but I think it's amazing. It looks like much. What's the famous painting? The Scream, I think. Yes, I think that's right.

I think she's on to something. I've got an apple tree, which seems very on brand. since I'm now the Secretary of Agriculture from my now college student, Jake, but he painted that when he was three. So, yes, here's some shoes, the best part of me. This is my daughter. She likes her feet because she can pretty much do anything

and can walk and gets to go work in the field. So it's all very on brand, maybe from a long time ago, but there you go. Well, Brooke, we have in our prior conversation, already established your undeniable humanity and your devotion to your family, and I think all of that's terrific. Thank you. But what did happen, I'll cover this in the preamble as well,

but I have been absolutely inundated with phone calls from farmers and ranchers, many of whom I met during the Dirty Jobs Days, many of whom I'm close to today, just talking to me about what feels like a real challenge in your world. and something that's going to impact everyone who shares my addiction to chewing and swallowing things. So what's going on in the wide world of ground beef? What's new? And let's just call it ground beef for dummies.

Since everybody's asking me about this, what is the president done with this proclamation? What does it mean for consumers? And of course, what does it mean for ranchers? Well, first of all, I really appreciate the opportunity to come back on and talk about this. There are, it is an extremely complicated issue set, but some really important top lines. Number one, America makes, grows through years of research and genetics. We have the very best beef in the world, period, full stop. Everybody wants what we produce in America.

Number two, Americans eat the most beef of anywhere in the world. We consume 13 million metric tons every single year. that probably is a meaningless number to most. But 13 million metric tons is a whole bunch of beef for Americans. And by the way, that's only growing year over year. So that's number two. Number three of the 13 million metric tons that we consume, we have always imported between two and three million of those metric tons.

So what's that 10 to 15% roughly that we've always imported? A lot of that comes across the border from Mexico. as lean cattle, but a lot of it also comes across in box beef. Most of that, by the way, is the lean. That's the ground beef that we're going to talk about. So that's number three. Number four, through the Make America Healthy, again, work that Bobby Kennedy and I have been partnering on.

We flipped the dietary guidelines. We have been putting nutrient dense, real food back at the center of policymaking in Washington, D.C. I think you and I talked about that when we were in person together a while, a little while ago. And in so doing, we have shifted, I believe, in a historical way, the way that a lot of Americans are thinking about what they eat, where they purchase it from, etc. Last year, 2025, we saw an increase by 10% in the purchase of fresh and real food. I mean, these are numbers that, A, historically changed the having the least unhealthy population in the

developed world here in America with chronic disease forever. But it also, hopefully, also changes the trend of farming and ranching in America that you and I are so passionate about that puts the farmer and the rancher back at the center of policymaking and that Americans like me with these four kids, all the families and really everybody are now, I think maybe a little more astute in what they buy, how they buy it, what they're feeding their family. Can I just ask you, to quickly frame to maybe the state of the herd. Because I think people are a little confused. You know, you read about the screw worm, that had an impact.

You read about drought, that had an impact. So from a supply demand standpoint, is there anything people should know about how the table's been set? That's right. So my fifth and final point and very aligned with you, Mike, is that we are at the lowest cattle herd. in American history, at least since we've been tracking this for the last 75 years. And so while demand is higher than it's ever been, supply is lower than it's been, at least since we've been tracking. And there are a lot of reasons for that.

You mentioned drought is correct. Number two is the screw worm, which is a flesh-eating parasite that devastated the herds in the 1950s and 60s. A terrible name, by the way. I mean, like in the long history of parasites, anything deemed a screw-worm. screw worm. It's going to be the bad guy, no matter how you're like it. Which is actually a female fly, by the way, that lands in an open wound and then without being treated, we'll eat that animal up. So it devastated the herds in the 50s and 60s. Because we thought it was eradicated,

because of the illicit movement of people and cattle during 2021 to 2025, you know, millions of people moved up through South America, Central America, Mexico. The screw room actually made its way back. As a result of that, we closed all the ports last year, about 14 months ago. So stopped about a million and a half head of cattle that would normally have come across for slaughter. We kept on the south side of the border to prepare and be ready when New World Screwroom got here and then eventually eradicate again. The good news on that is screw worm did hit our shores about four months ago. We only have three active cases right now. To compare in 1972, we had 90,000 active cases in Texas alone.

So we're beating that too. I know we don't have time to get into that, but that's all good news for the long term. We're in a perfect storm in America as it relates to ground beef and certainly one of the most important proteins that Americans eat. And so the president in reviewing all options,

we all know the inflation numbers under the last administration. Food at the very top of that inflation went up about 25% under Joe Biden. Ground beef under Joe Biden went up about 27% in those couple of years. By the way, the third point, through worm drought, but also the left, they think cattle caused climate change, right? So the Democrats were shrinking, grazing, et cetera,

we're not supporting the cattle ranchers. So we are at a point where ground beef is very, very high for a lot of families. It is out of reach. And the president decided, after a lot of conversation from me and others, over the course of a year, that lifting the tariff rate quota, so an additional 25% charge on imported beef from certain countries, ground beef for the most part,

that for 90 days he was going to lift that additional 25% quota to get more ground beef in the supply chain to, again, hopefully bring the cost down. So that's a very long explanation we could go on and all, but that's basically the bottom line. Well, I do want to dig into some of it. I think, I mean, just on a personal level, I'm kind of fascinated about what goes on in your brain, knowing you and knowing your devotion to farmers and ranchers.

You're in a position, though, where your primary constituency, I would assume, are consumers. Correct. So talk a little bit about, like, what I'm hearing is kind of a frustration, I guess, from ranchers who also see themselves as consumers. Correct. Who are wondering, oh, maybe this is the better question. What's the long-term goal? To what degree do you want the United States to be reliant solely on domestic beef? And like skipping over these, you know, these externalities, these events that happen that kind of forces to make adjustments.

What's the big goal for call it meat independence? Yeah. Well, I often say where there is beef, there is freedom, right? So this is a much larger conversation I'd love to have with you when we've got a little more time. But we became a net importer of food in 2023 after 247 years of being the world's bread basket.

This has been decades in the making. We'll point a finger at the last administration, but it goes way beyond the last administration. The consolidation, the purchase of our farmland by foreign interests, including foreign adversaries, the purchase of our seed companies by China, the purchase of our processing companies by Brazil. We have a massive national security issue in front of us. And it isn't just

that we need a stronger military. It isn't just that we need to have a secure border. If we don't have farm security, food security, we lose the American dream full stop. At the same time, we've lost 600,000 ranchers and farmers since 1985, 600,000. Again, we are at kind of a crossroads in American history. And for me, my number one constituent, obviously, is the consumer. But I would say parallel to that is the farmer and the rancher. Because without their work and without reversing that trend of losing these ranchers and farmers for a lot of reasons, then we lose America.

I mean, it's that, and you've made this point on trade and hard work and all the things. I mean, we're meeting the moment, I believe, to make sure that we have a another 250 years of American freedom. But if we don't get this right right now, I don't know that that is a secure idea. So that's how important this is. The long-term effort to rebuild the herd, to open up the aperture for more farmers and ranchers first generation to get into this business, to incentivize them, you know, the conversation you and I had, Mike still sticks with me. one of the main reasons you decided to get into this sort of conversation a couple decades ago was because my beloved organization, the future farmers of America, decided to change their name

to National FFA because they didn't want to turn anyone away with the word farmer in the title. I'm like, that is. The F word. Yes. Yeah, farming and fracking. What the half happened? Yeah, exactly. By the way, I'm working to get that back.

But again, another conversation. But if we don't reverse the trend and if we don't signal. to our ranchers, to our farmers, that we've got their back, that we don't think you are the enemy. In fact, we think you are the central component to saving the country. That is what I will continue to do. I know we started this conversation because you've gotten some feedback based on the president's decision to import 300,000 metric tons without a tariff rate quota of lean beef. Of course, 300,000 imported.

Think of this, again, as part of the 3 million that we always import. I don't think a lot of people realize we do import a lot of beef already. But understanding that that signal was slightly mixed or not slightly, maybe very mixed to our producers, wait a minute, we thought this administration was 100% in support. And the bottom line is we are in what we are doing, building out mid-sized processing, opening up 5 million acres in graze land, extending the young farmer definition, changing the heifer retention tax incentives. I mean, this all gets a little won't want to bore people,

but there will never be a more pro-rancher president administration and agenda than this one. But the president's decision, again, was the short term. We have to provide some relief to the consumer. What then do you say? Because if I got my timeline right, you were headed up. I think you were going to the Iowa State Fair. like the day the president did this. You're in Iowa in front of a bunch of people, many of whom are farmers and ranchers.

And I would imagine a big chunk of them are supporters of this administration. What is the simple encapsulated message to a rancher who sees him or herself as a patriot, who wants to do right by the country, who is trying to make a living? What do you say to them when they say, how did I not do? just take it in the neck? Well, I think the single most important thing is that the president has said over and over, no one has been more loyal to him than rural America and then our farmers and ranchers. And the effort to deconstruct an entire system that the Biden team and the Democrats before

have been building for years, which is eating lab grown. meat so there's no climate change. It is closing down grazing. It is really offshoring all of our production as much as possible. The impossible burger turned out to be kind of impossible. Yes, yes. Versus this administration that has opened up markets around the world, has opened up grazing, is deconstructing the big ag consolidation, is making sure that all Americans understand that without these most essential of Americans, there is no freedom. And this president gets that. So I have spent the last year and a half the best part of my job.

It is not flying on Air Force One. It is not having a fancy office on the National Mall. It is not, you know, being called out. Collecting fine art. It is not that it is everywhere I go, even the hard conversations, the opportunity to look and be with and build friendships with these farmers and ranchers around the country and hear from them and let them know that we've got your back, but give me your ideas. Honestly, Mike, I've done massive amounts of policy plans, rollouts, you know,

whether it's against lawfare, building, rebuilding the herd, opening up the markets around the world for our rogcroppers, whatever it is, a lot of those ideas have not come from Washington, not come from the bureaucrats, not come from the lobby. They've come directly from farmers themselves. It's made our USDA a little bit different is that I'm not in Washington that much. I'm actually on the road and in the fields, but that's made a tremendous difference. And I hope that they feel that and will continue to do so. I got two more questions. I don't want to keep you. I know you got a country to run and so forth. but anecdotally, you should just know on this podcast over the last, I don't know, six months maybe, the number of guests who have come on to talk in fairly urgent terms about our relationship with food,

not just where our food comes from, but what's in it and what it's doing to us. And I know you're up to your neck in the Maha movement, but I just wanted to tell you that whether it's Alex Clark, who is on right now, or Dr. Philip Evadia, who came on a few months ago to talk about, I mean, that whole episode was called Meat is Medicine. And it really feels to me, just as an observer, that there is something akin to an awakening or maybe an enlightenment around the stuff we're eating.

And people are really starting to pay attention. And I'm just wondering if I'm hallucinating any of this. No, that's, I know we started there. I'll loop back to that because as difficult of a moment that we find ourselves in, you know, whether it's diesel being, you know, at record highs because of the Iranian and Ukraine and Russian conflict, you know, the cost of inputs. Fertilizer, against all odds, we have brought down for the most part. We still got to get the cost of seed down. I know interest rates.

The president's very focused on this. but the profit margins are still way too skinny if they're there at all for farmers. But what I have seen to your point is I am so bullish and I'm so encouraged that we are going to be able to move out of this moment that's lasted now years, maybe decades, where farmers are reliant on a check from the government to keep going. And that's not what they want, right? they want to sell their goods for money. They don't want to check from USDA and Farm Service Agency. I sincerely believe, you can't fix this in a year or two years,

but I sincerely believe when we walk out of here in two more years, we will have opened up the world markets like never before. I mean, even just today, corn is at a high, wheat is at a high, we're bringing cotton back, we're opening up the forest again for our timber farmers. We're reshoring so much manufacturing, including fertilizer, etc. Like we are making such fundamental long-term change right now that circles back to the way that we used to eat food in this country where you would buy it. Where are we with potash right now? Well, so there are six different fertilizers that the farmers use. We are reshoring almost all of them

at this point. You bring up potash because the president did just truth this a couple days ago. We've relied on Canada for a lot of our potash for a really long time. The president does doesn't want to rely on anyone anymore. It doesn't mean we won't sell them our goods and we won't buy their goods, but we shouldn't be reliant on China for ammonia or on Russia for nitrates or whatever it is. That potash is now a big deal.

We are mining again for that, but again, that takes a while to get mines online years. And until then, the president's looking at other areas around the world where we can get our potash and not just rely on Canada. One of those is Belarus, so we're working with that right now. But good news on fertilizer all around. even with the Strait of Hormuz being compromised over the last six or eight months.

Before I ask my last question from one of my favorite ranchers, is there anything you want to say that you think people should better understand about the processing business of meat and the supply chain in general? What just, again, ground beef for dummies, what does the average Joe need to understand that goes beyond the slaughterhouse that is impacting all of this? Well, first of all, it's an incredibly complex supply chain, right? You have the ranchers that raise the cattle.

And think about you've got a brand new heifer who will eventually be the tool by which we'll get the calf, that they'll eventually be slaughtered and going to the food supply chain. Mike, that's four years. That's four years from when that heifer is born, bread, throws a calf, that calf goes to slaughter. Four years.

you just think about from that, the amount of investment our ranchers have up into that point when that calf finally gets into the food supply chain. Then they go to a stocker, then they go to a feedlot, then they go to a processing plant, then they go to a packaging, then they go to retail. So you've got this massively complex supply chain, and in the middle of it, you've got the processor. And I know you've probably heard of this, and we may have spoken about it, but right now there are four processors that control about 85% of the market. And two of those are not even American companies. Two of them are Brazilian.

So there's a lot of things we have to fix, but one of the most important is that deconsolidation so that these ranchers have more options, mid-sized, small-time processing, more direct-to-consumer, the ability to sell across state lines, the ability to take the middleman out. That will support the rancher.

It'll also mean healthier food getting on the plates because it's closer. You know, the food that's raised closer to you is the food that's going to be healthier and more fresh. And you talked about that at the beginning. The Renaissance, I think, that we're under the resurgence of serving healthier food. And I know we haven't talked about SNAP.

Didn't have time for the food stamp program that I run as well at USDA. But the changes that we have made there, no more junk food, no more soda, right? But also on the back end, the retailers in America who take that SNAP dollar from those people who use food stamps, stamps now have to stock 28 healthy items versus 12 before we got here.

And jelly doesn't count as a fruit anymore, et cetera. They have to stock real healthy food. So it's this full, not just the supply chain and beef, but it's this full kind of chain that we're working from beginning to end to get healthier, affordable food onto everyone's plate in this country while rebuilding our agriculture community. I think about what we feed our troops. I think about what we feed our kids.

lunchables, no offense, but, you know, how a piece of pizza, microwaved, and slapped on a tray. I'm glad you're on it. This is my last question. I know you got a jam. I know a guy named Ben Spell. He's actually a former musician who got into the ranching business and full disclosure. He runs good ranchers. They're a sponsor of this podcast.

I talk to him all the time about this, you know. I said, look, I'm going to be talking to the Secretary of Agriculture, what's on your mind? And I thought he was going to give me a whole list of truly ranch-centric, you know, what are we going to do? How can you help me? Yes. He didn't. He only asked this one question. And I'm going to read it exactly as he asked it because I think it led to the formation of his whole business. It has to do with truth and advertising.

Here it is. Yes. Secretary Rollins, American ranchers, put years of work into raising cattle here. USDA just made this year, made, quote, product of USA labor. more truthful, but the label is still voluntary. If shoppers can't consistently tell American beef from imported beef at the meat counter, how can ranchers earn the value of raising it here? What's the next step toward giving families that information?

I love the fact that a rancher is asking me to ask you a question that fundamentally impacts the consumer. It's an existential question from my perspective. If we're really going to support American ranchers, then that support comes from them being able to, and requiring labels that especially come in from other countries. The mandatory country of origin labeling is what he's referring to. When the president signed our pro-rancher executive order a couple weeks ago, that was front and center. By the way, the first USDA secretary to get on the race.

and the first president to be on the record in support of a mandatory label for beef coming in. The challenge is Congress has to pass it. It's a congressional action. But with the president leaning in and with me leaning in, I do believe we will get there. It made it out of committee in the farm bill that's at the Senate right now, there is some complication that from my home state of Texas and some of my producers here that have for five and six generations depended on Mexican beef as we've talked about moving across the border. Sorry, that's my college daughter calling. I'll call her as soon as we finish.

She's probably working on her next great piece of art. Yes, exactly, exactly. But we are 100% with the American rancher on that. And for our more southern ranchers that are nervous about that because they rely on the back and forth across the border and half our generations, we will solve for that full stop. The way I am approaching this, Mike, and let your rancher know,

that as Congress continues to move this, we're working to light of fire, that I believe, we're working through this right now, but maybe breaking news for your show, that I believe there's a world where we can, USDA, we have food safety inspection at USDA, 10,000 safety inspectors. FDA does most of the food,

but USDA, my crew does meat, poultry, eggs and things like that, that why can't we just stamp it not product of USA right now. Please. And then once mandatory country of origin labeling passes, then we can get back to the, this is from Brazil, this is from Australia, this is from Japan. But we can do something very, very quickly. So I'm working night and day on that right now.

Who is in favor of saying product of the USA on a container of meat that came from Brazil? Who's behind that? It's big ag. It's the big four processors. This is the problem, right? And frankly, this is likely across all policy areas. Healthcare, Bobby Kennedy is having to manage a lot of this education. America is the best, most extraordinary.

It really is the city on the hill. It's biblical from my perspective. It is the light in the darkness. I mean, the United States of America has been the light for the world almost from the beginning, 250 years ago. But we are so efficient in capitalism and more. market economics is real and it has helped us build the most successful economic country in the world. We have, you know, our poorest among us aren't dying of starvation anymore, right?

Which is what happened for so many years. The poorest among us have massive other issues, but not that. But the challenge is it's now gone so far. This is why the president has taken on China when he first came down the escalator because we were driving mercilessly toward the cheapest good possible. right? And going America first, reshoring across all lanes, but from my perspective, especially agriculture, couldn't be more important today. But what has happened is, and this happens with all great civilizations, you buckle under the weight of your own government, right?

This happened with Rome, with Greece, with everywhere in Europe, you can start voting yourself largesse. And this may have been soccer. I can't remember who said that. One of the great philosophers said that. The moment you start voting yourself largesse from the state treasury, that is the moment that your great civilization begins to decline. And I believe we were on that great decline in America until, you know, Donald Trump, obviously imperfect, no straight line from A to B. But he came in and broke up that status quo and he disrupted that trend of our great decline. But part of disrupting that trend and the great decline is taking freedom back, right? Self-governance. And from my perspective, that means putting ranchers, farmers, agriculture, rural America,

back at the center of all policymaking and working to move back towards smaller, you know, supporting those ranchers and farmers. And that includes the food supply chain and the processors and the industry that supports them. Seed, fertilizer, etc. Yes. The administration is lucky to have somebody who gives a dam

to this degree, honestly. And I, again, I'm going to let you go. I know you got a thousand things. But I'm so glad we did this because, put yourself in my place. How am I going to put up a conversation? with the Secretary of Agriculture that doesn't address this. Yes.

That's such a nightmare recording these things in advance sometimes. Yes. I'm so glad we waited. And Mike, from my perspective, it's such a gift to be able to explain, even if it isn't easy, right? Even if it's, but this is my whole approach to all of this. And that's when I landed in Iowa two hours after the president made that decision. I'm like, okay, this isn't the easiest thing I've ever done.

but these amazing patriots deserve to hear directly from me, even if they don't agree with what the president decided what his thinking was, but what we're going to keep working on for them. And I do believe once we get out of this, it's going to be incredible. So the opportunity to explain to an even larger audience than the 20 farmers I'm meeting with

or the local news station, you have such a huge following. I love. And now that I've got it set up on my iPad, I can kind of talk to you anytime. So you'd say, would you come back on in a couple of months? I need to talk to you about what we're doing in China. Careful what you wish for. I am the kind of guy that will take you up on that.

And by the way, there's art in everything, right? The industrial arts, there's the art of politics, the art of agriculture. You know, art, I sometimes think, you know, we just kind of arbitraged all of that out of the conversation, which is why I'm so glad you didn't blur whatever that is behind you. No boring. I'm not sure why your audience is going to think about this, but it's my whole heart. I think I told you my husband was like who runs a big oil and gas company. He was like, Brooke, that is so unprofessional.

Like you cannot have that behind you. You're a cabinet member. You're like sixth in line for succession to the presidency. Well, you tell him to get the stick out of you nowhere because this was exactly the right thing to do. I love it. Don't hang up until this is uploaded. And thank you. Thank you again.

And thank you, Ben Spel, for, for everything. asking that question. Mike, you've got my cell phone. If you want to connect me directly to him so he can have a direct line into me, I would love to kind of keep that conversation going with him. Terrific. You know what? I've been threatening to have him on the pod sometime soon. Maybe I'll have you both on. We'll have a jolly. That would be awesome. I would love to do that. I'll let you know what he says. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Am I hanging on? Yep. Okay. You got it. Thank you. You're welcome.

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