The Weekly Planet - 1 Underrated Comic Book Movies

Episode Date: September 30, 2013

Mr Sunday and Mason look at terrible comic book movies and any redeeming qualities they may have. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Theme song. Somebody save me. Don't care how you do it. Just say it. Don't react like that. Look. Fuck it up. I don't.

That's a terrible way to start. I think. We've just lost mostly everybody. Listen, we've got Remy Zero, though. That's true. So they'll be on board. They're gearing up their lawyers, their editors, so. Fucking hell.

Honestly, I don't think they can use the internet, so I think we'll be fine. Are they still around? I don't know. What's going on? Not much. This is episode one, though, of the comicbookmovie.com podcast, The Weekly Planet, named by you. Thanks, pal. Would you like to hear some alternate titles?

Sure. What have you got? Um, hang on. Okay. Fortress of Lolitude There's an option Yep Ridiculous Wait, I can do this Infinity Jauntlets Jauntlets

So we go on like a jaunt Okay Like a fishing trip or something Then we do the podcast We probably don't have the budget for that Sounds really technical Okay Wait

Let me think Okay The Peter Porker The Spectacular Spider-Ham Hour for that. Sounds really technical. Okay, wait. Let me think. Okay, the Peter Porker, the Spectacular Spider-Ham Hour, where I just talk for an hour about how much I enjoy Peter Porker, the Spectacular Spider-Ham. Was that... I don't even know what to say. No, it's a real thing.

Okay, one more. I can do one more. Podcast full of kryptonite. There we go. That's actually a pretty good name. That's a sweet spin-off. Maybe we should change it to that Ah, it's too late It is We've already started I love it

Let's do it Let's get into it Alright, let's get into it Let's get into it Hello and welcome to episode one of The Weekly Planet The official podcast of comicbookmovie.com This week we're here to discuss Sorry

This week we're here to discuss Oh, we ended that video out No, no, no, keep it in This week we're here to discuss a somewhat controversial topic Underrated comicbook movies Or more accurately Comicbook movies that everyone thinks I'll edit that bit out. No, keep it in. This week we're here to discuss a somewhat controversial topic, underrated comic book movies. Or more accurately, comic book movies that everyone thinks are garbage but may not entirely be garbage. My name is James, or perhaps you know me as Mr. Sunday,

editor at Comic Book Movie, or sorry, junior editor at ComicBookMovie.com and creator of the Mr. Sunday Movies YouTube channel. And joining me this week with his wonderful Remy Zero What's the word for that? Nonsense. Nonsense. Waste of time. Waste of your time and our time. Quite frankly. Joining me this week is my co-host Nick Mason. Can I use your last name? Real name,

no gimmicks. Real name, no gimmicks. Comic book movie aficionado and the only person on Earth who has an original copy of the Batman Returns novelisation. Alan Dean Foster, I think, probably. What else has he written? Just all the novelizations. If you want a terrible novelization containing scenes that were cut out of the final shooting

script but are in the original for some reason, you call him. You go Alan Dean Taylor. You call ADF, yeah. Jeez. That's right. Maybe we can get him on. We're never getting anybody on. No, we're never getting anybody on.

It's just us. Okay, so basically how this episode's going to work is Mason and I will be taking in turns to name comic book movies that we think

have been given an unfair rap. I'm sure none of the movies we're mentioning are perfect, but the idea is that we discuss any redeeming qualities

that they might have. Does that make sense? I'm on board, sure. Cool. I love redeeming qualities. Sure. In fact, redeeming qualities are a prime factor of superhero movies generally. That's very true.

It's all about redemption. Okay. Do you want me to kick things off? Yes, please. Also, yeah, full spoilers for all these movies that we're discussing. So if we name a movie and you haven't seen it and you don't want to know anything about it, skip ahead an amount of time to the next thing. At least an hour.

At least an hour. At least an hour. Okay. All right. X-Men The Last Dead. I thought I'd start with that. Okay. Thoughts on that in general? I like X-Men The Last Dead.

Do you think it's the best X-Men movie? No. Do you think it's the worst X-Men movie? No. Wait. It's the worst X-Men group movie. But I would say it's not the worst X-Men movie. That is Wolverine Origins.

Probably second worst. But I don't think it's still that bad a film in general. Okay, so it's got the juggernaut. Yeah. And who is apparently

brought in to dissatisfy the internet meme. I'm a juggernaut bitch that decided to put that in. So that's points against. Sure.

I was going to say Ving Rhames. It's Vinnie Jones. It is Vinnie Jones, yes. He's just in a big rubber muscle suit. It didn't work out at all. It's just a big weird looking... Why would you? They'll CGI over the top.

You know what they probably did? They probably said, hey, we'll put this ridiculous looking unrealistic rubber muscle suit on you. It doesn't look like the muscles of any human ever and we'll CGI that over the top. And he's like, I'm on board and then they didn't. Definitely. He annoyed somebody

in visual effects. He glassed somebody in visual effects and they're like, you know what, just leave it. It's fine. It looks great. It doesn't look great. Give me some good points. As far as the look of it goes, it looks like the other two. If you put them side by side, visually, they're pretty close.

And I know that's not great. That's not great, that's not like a big redeeming quality, but it's something. Yeah, it lines up. I guess it sort of looks like it was shot

by the same person, even if it doesn't. It's clearly not when you watch the actual movie. I'm on board, sure. Other thing, there are some good

action sequences. The bridge, remember when Magneto lifts the bridge? I lifted the bridge! I'm gonna lift the bridge! I'm back on board, James when Magneto, he lifts the bridge. I lifted the bridge. I've got to lift the bridge. I'm back on board, James. I'm back on board.

Great. That's an amazing scene. Amazing. I think that was originally going to be in another X-Men movie and they pushed it back to this one.

So it might have actually been something that Bryan Singer wanted to do and then kind of, what's his name, Brett Radley just picked up the scraps. I hope that in the whiteboard

in the Fox production offices there was just like, they've written mutants on the whiteboard and... I hope that in the whiteboard in the Fox production offices, there was just like, they've written mutants on the whiteboard and then just above that they've written bridge. Somebody lifts a bridge. That's priority number one. And it just got buried. They did it. Eventually.

They finally did it. Also, I thought, and this will probably be the last thing. No, second last thing I want to say about this. It's an okay way to cap off the trilogy. Like, it kind of wraps everything up. It kills Professor Xavier, sort of, because he's in the post-credits this. It's an okay way to cap off the trilogy. Like, it kind of wraps everything up. It kills Professor Xavier, sort of, because he's in the post-credits scene. It explodes him, sure.

It explodes him. And then he's in another body at the end, which I think they're going to explain more in the Days of Future Past. I don't think they will, though. They will, won't they? I... You saw The Wolverine.

Yes. And he's in the post-credits sequence. He's in the post-credits sequence. Post-credits sequence. Post-credits sequence? Post-credit sequence? Post-credits sequence. Yeah, that's it. But where are they getting...

I guess so, but... I think the idea is, though, I think I remember reading somewhere that he puts... That's his twin brother in the coma, so that's how he comes back. Does that make sense? No, but... Because why would he be paraplegic, though?

But comic book logic, so it's fine. You know what, it's fine. I'm on board. Good. And they completely ballsed up the Jean Grey saga. You know, the whole Jean Grey saga, the Phoenix saga. There's a lot of things that just don't work. One-inch Spikes guy.

You know, the guy who has the spikes. My favourite villain. He's like Porcupine Man. I don't know what he's actually called. Is he Lost? That guy? You don't like Lost. No, I've done it.

I don't like Lost. I've watched it all. I wish I didn't. He's't know what he's actually called. He's in Lost? That guy? You don't like Lost. I don't like Lost. I've watched it all. I wish I didn't. He's the only villain who's your only inherent danger is if you're trapped in a phone booth with him. Yeah. And then you're in a lot of trouble. God. Terrible.

But look, I think all in all, it's not that bad. Are you on board with me on that? Yes. Good. Alright, do you want to switch? Yeah, let's switch. Okay, here we go. Here we go. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm kidding! I'm kidding! I'm kidding, it's the worst movie ever.

Although, full credit to the creators of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. No! For A, ruining the franchise. Okay, yep. And B, for putting a car chase in pre-automotive Europe, like Victorian era. I think that's quite a feat.

It's basically like it's a bold-faced middle finger to just any audience member who has any memory of anything from like pre-last week. Yeah, any point in time, sure. Isn't it also that, I'm assuming in that movie, that's the only car in existence, right? Yeah. Why can Tom Sawyer drive that car really well?

That's a really good point. As he outraces the earthquake? I think it was an earthquake, sure. Or a tidal wave? I thought there was like cracks through the city and he's racing the... It doesn't matter. What's the real one you've got? I fucking hate that movie.

You know what? It's not a good film. Sure. It's got redeeming features, though. That's what we need. That's what we're here for. Daredevil. Yeah.

I had Daredevil on the list. Is Daredevil on the list? Yes, absolutely. Right. Notwithstanding the horrific nu-metal soundtrack. What is it? Evanescence. It's always Evanescence.

One, the girl sings, and then the guy raps. And then the guy raps. Sure. Yeah. Okay. yeah okay so points for

any scene with John Favreau and Ben Affleck together where Favreau's all like hey Murdoch hey Murdoch

what are you doing your clients are paying us in fish I can't pay my electric electricity bill with fish

no it's probably not I think it is yeah somebody pays him in fish sure I know. That's a bold move. Okay, so I'm on board for that.

Table. Yes. Sorry. That's right. We'll edit that out. That's fine. You'll edit it out specifically. And you know what?

Any scene with... There's a scene, and it's a little bit ridiculous, sure, but there's a scene with Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck. They're on a playground. That's the worst scene in the movie. That was the best scene in the movie. Where they have that weird dance. they have the dance what i find weird about that is she knows he's blind right yeah and she's like slapping the shit out of him like i don't i don't

know is that weird is that weird that i think that's weird i think it's weird that you think it's weird i think you hate people with disabilities i think that's what we've learned but yeah no that okay hang on let me scroll down there's some things i wanted to say about daredevil well by all means I'm going to say them put them out on the table I had great soundtrack

first thing I put down was great soundtrack but it's clearly not a great soundtrack okay but look it's at the time what was it

early 2000 2003 is that right yes I think it's 2003 I'm pretty sure it is because I think Electro was in

2005 yeah there you go it was probably the best Daredevil movie they could have made at that particular time coming off

X-Men so you've got to have like the leather suit you can't have like a proper comic book suit so you've got to have the leather suit

it was really the best thing they could have done because comic book movies get a lot better after that so I would say probably

maybe after Spider-Man 2 so what's that 2004 is that right? You know what? Let's not say any actual dates, because we're going to complain. That's true, yeah.

Spider-Man 2 came out at one point... Do you remember the early 21st century? Do I ever? Yeah, also, you know he's so in our powers. He's got the hearing powers. I'm sure everybody... If you're listening to this, I'm sure you know all about that. They portray that really well. You know, he does the thing, he hits his belly club, and if you're listening to this, I'm sure you know all about that. They portray that really well. That's true.

You know, he does the thing, he hits his belly club and it makes that cool kind of sound, visual effect. I thought that was really, really good. I,

the character of Bullseye was, that's a weird way to do it with Colin Farrell and his, In terms of the look. Yeah, and just the whole thing. I think that's probably because a point against Daredevil,

it is, it was quite dark. Do you mean visually? I mean visually, sure. And comic book Bullseye just wears a black bodysuit. So in the dark, him and Daredevil are going to look exactly the same. That's true. On screen.

So you've got to have to give him a weird sleeveless overcoat or whatever it is. He had a sparkly trench coat. Yeah, sparkly trench coat. whatever it is. He had a sparkly trench coat. Yeah, sparkly trench coat. Yeah. Also, another thing about Bullseye,

that end fight where he's fighting in the, what is it, in the cathedral, and he's hitting all the pipes, that whole thing looks terrible, because there's a lot of it CGI cut in with real footage, and it's all bouncy and strange. But the end bit where he moves his hands, and the sniper shoots the bullet through Bullseye's hands, then he pegs him out the stained glass window,

and he smashes on the cop car. Yep. That bit's really, really cool. That is out the stained glass window and he smashes on the cop car. Yep. That bit's really, really cool. That is true. Yeah. I also have another point for Daredevil. And this is, I think, this is a lesson,

the one lesson that other filmmakers could probably learn from Daredevil is the origin story is mercifully brief. Yeah, yeah. Which I think, he gets his powers, his father is killed. Yep.

He says, I'm going to be a superhero. And then it cuts 10 years into the future and his whole life's fallen apart I think like I don't think we're going to escape it but I think all the big tentpole movies all the Spidermans, all the Supermans, all the Batmans

every couple of years we're going to see the origin movie again and again because as far as I know marketers don't think that kids who are buying the lunchboxes and the action figures want to see an old movie. No, God no. They don't want to see... In a couple of years, nobody's going to want to see Christian Bale becoming Batman again.

They want to see the new guy. That's true. Ben Affleck. Yeah, Ben Affleck. Yeah, and then after that... Everybody seems to be on board for that, from what I've heard. It's fine. Yeah, I'm okay with it.

I think he's a good... I think he was an okay Daredevil, and I think he'll be a good Batman. Do you think that? I think that is the best praise anyone could hope for. Cool. He'll be okay, probably. He'll be fine. But yeah, you're right, though.

Just hand him his millions of dollars, and he'll be fine, probably. He doesn't care. He probably does care. I thought I saw an interview with him in Jimmy... Anyway, it doesn't matter. We'll talk about it another time. Yeah.

Also, are you aware of the Director's Cut? Of Daredevil? Yeah. Is it... It's got Coolio in it. There's like a subplot with Coolio. Yeah, also, are you aware of the Director's Cut? Of Daredevil? Yeah. Is it? It's got Coolio in it. There's like a subplot with Coolio. Oh, he's in prison. Yeah, he's trying to get him off for something.

I can't remember. I saw it ages ago. I might have even watched the clips on YouTube. I might have even watched it all together. But apparently, though I can't really remember this, it makes it a much better film, the Director's Cut. Huh. Yeah, but I can't say that's certain.

But that's what people say. Should we watch it? I I'm gonna take it on faith And not You know what I feel In coming weeks We should watch some Forgotten classics

What are you thinking I don't think Daredevil should be one of them Alright Perhaps Steel With Shaquille O'Neal I've never seen Steel Neither have I

Can we then watch Shazam With Shaquille O'Neal Kazam please It's Kazam That's embarrassing That is embarrassing for you Rapping genie Kazam. Come out of a boombox?

Yes. Doesn't he come out of a boombox? Probably. I'm sure he does. How does that work? Unless I just made that up. That is magic. Now, yeah, I forgot.

God. What a good movie, probably. Yeah. Okay, do you want me to go to the next one? Please do. Don't say Daredevil. I know it's on your list, but we just did it. Like, literally seconds ago.

I know you hate this movie. Okay. I don't hate it as much as you you hate it Superman Returns I hate it I hate it so much I

it's it depresses me it's dreary and like a weird sepia tone do you mean good? no oh you mean dreary

I mean dreary like a dreary film yeah and it's just okay you know what say your piece and then I'm gonna rant okay fine sure just cinematic Superman generally the strange and then I'm going to rant about Superman.

Just cinematic Superman, generally. The strange thing is, I just wanted to point out that X-Men 3 only exists the way it is because of Superman Returns. You know, Bryan Singer left the X-Men franchise, went to Superman Returns, so X-Men got balled up, Superman got balled up. So Bryan Singer is responsible for both of those things.

Okay. It does have some good action scenes. There's one in particular that's really, really good. The rest of them, not so much. The catching the plane scene, remember that? That's a really good scene, right? And he breaks the wings off, and then he slowly, and the plane crumples, and he catches it on the football field.

That's pretty cool. Do you agree? It's fine, sure. Okay, fair enough. It's fine. It will do. Also, he does very briefly do some awesome Superman stuff. You know, where he stops the bank robbers,

and they've got the Gatling gun on the pulley thing, and all the bullets are pinging off him, and then he shoots him in the eye, and the bullet bounces off his eye. Sure. That's amazing. But the problem with that part is, the bullet bouncing off the eye is the best part in the movie,

and it's in the trailer. That's true. So I saw that trailer, and I was like, wow, this movie's going to blow everyone's fucking minds, and yet, that's the best part in the movie and it's in the trailer. So I saw that trailer and I was like wow, this movie's going to blow everyone's fucking minds and yet that's the best part. Okay, I want to talk about Superman Returns for a second. It's a terrible

movie and you're a terrible person for liking it but... I didn't say I liked it, I said it's not... there are some redeeming qualities. Okay, that's fine. Okay, but I don't believe you. Listen. So, it's so... the problem I have, and it's a problem that I've had with all the cinematic Superman movies except Man of Okay, but I don't believe you. Listen, so it's so, the problem I have, and it's a problem that I've had with

all the cinematic Superman movies, except Man of Steel, which I haven't seen. That's, people are not going to like that. We'll edit that out, it's fine.

Keep it in. I don't care. That he's a man who can do anything, and yet they never see, you never see him doing anything. He could travel the

entire length of the galaxy. He could travel through time. Yeah, exactly. He could travel the entire length of the galaxy. He could travel through time. Yeah, exactly. He could travel the entire length of the galaxy and meet other alien civilizations and have incredible adventures across time and space and dimensions.

But he stays on Earth. And yeah, heaps of it. Just so much. So much. Just layered on him. But he stays on Earth, which is fine, because he wants to be the protector of Earth. Because he's from, you know, Kansas. Yeah, that's fine yeah that's fine not from you know what i mean that's right but

and yet his primary antagonist is isn't over the past couple of decades in the film isn't anyone impressive it's cinematic he's saying kevin spacey is not impressive i'm saying that kevin spacey and gene hackman do a fine job with what they're given, but the Lex Luthor in the films is this sort of pompous blowhard who surrounds himself with really world-class gold-plated idiots to make himself look

like he's smarter than he is. And that's not... It's just Superman's sense of mercy and fair play that just doesn't grab him and throw him into space. Interesting you should say that. Yes. Do you know what happens at the end of Man of Steel?

Does he throw... Do you really not know this? No, I do. Somebody spoil it for me. Okay, cool. He snaps on... Yeah, exactly. And people lost it when that happened.

Which is interesting because... I tapped the table. That's fine. It's interesting because classically in the comic book, Superman did kill the three criminals from... But that was like a... Do you mean with the gold kryptonite? Do you mean that?

Originally, he kills them with a Phantom Zone projector. Yeah, yeah. And so he is distinct from Batman in that he doesn't kill, but he has killed. Yeah. And it's just... I guess that it's just that in the movie he broke his neck. He didn't zap him with a silly ray.

I think my problem with it, because I'm okay with Superman killing. Like, it's fine in general. But I think the fact that, and people say, well, you know what? They shouldn't have, what was it? People say he had to snap his neck because he was being put in that situation. But the thing is, if you're writing the movie, you don't have to put him in a situation like that you can put him in a situation where he can think of another way to get out correct it's not it's not a news report yeah that's exactly exactly and look i don't really i don't really care that much i think it speaks more for what's going to happen

in future films i think it's going to have some kind of impact down the line i don't know in what way but i just think it was a strange way to do it. It was. Yeah. Okay, so back to... Submariner, sorry. No, but my point, in the regular DC comic book universe, Lex Luthor has always been some combination of billionaire, industrialist, super genius, mad inventor, master manipulator kind of character. Sexer of old women?

Yeah, exactly. Do you remember that? Oh, boy. So in the comic books, I thinkulator kind of character. Sexer of old women? Yeah, exactly. Do you remember that? Oh, boy. So in the comic books, I think a number of years ago, with Superman and Batman and the Justice League and everybody and all the checkmate and all the secret organizations dogging him at every turn, Lex Luthor becomes the President of the United States.

Yeah. Legitimately. And he makes Superman and Batman public enemies number one and two. Like public enemies? Yeah, like the band Public Enemy oh yeah that's where that got i think that makes sense now perfect sense i didn't get it and yet in superman returns yeah superman who is apparently the only superhuman in that universe uh yeah i think you're yeah i think that's right right he's's away from Earth for five years And in that five years Lex Luthor just about Manages to trick an old lady

Into giving him a boat And in the end, she doesn't She just dies And then he forges his signature on the deed Do you see the disparity there? Like, it's not Baby steps Maybe give him another ten years, he could have

been... Oh, he could have been... Minister of Defence. Oh, he could have been... He could have had an ice cream van, maybe. Oh, look, you're right. I can't really argue

with that. That's solid gold logic. It's solid logic, isn't it? I can't really argue with that. But look, it's not very good. No.

I'm glad they rebooted it. Then again, I would have liked to see, because Bryan Singer said he always wanted to go Wrath of Khan when he did the follow-up to Superman Returns, which I think could have been interesting, but at the same time, it's probably best that they've just cut it off. The Donner films, because that's a continuation of the Donner films,

they're fine as they are. You don't need to really expand on that. They're from an era that's gone. Also, there's a deleted scene at the start of Superman Returns where he's in his crystal situation. And he goes to see the ruins of Krypton. The only

what I would say visually interesting part of the film, besides the plane catch sequence. And they cut it out because it was too interesting. People might be confused. People would have been confused though. Is he flying through space in a lamp? What's going on?

It's a big lamp. It's a big lamp, guys. Fair point. What do you think, though? I know you love the Kryptonite Island, though, right? It's all shady land deals with this Lex Luthor. Stop it. God, build a giant robot. You know what I didn't like about the Kryptonite Island as well?

He lands there. He seems to have no comprehension that what he's landed on is essentially the worst possible thing that could happen to him. He doesn't seem to feel the effects until someone starts slapping him around. That's true. And then he's so weak that Lex Luthor can like shank

him and turf him off the edge and then he gets the energy to lift the entire thing. And there's Kryptonite all around him. You see it all around him and yet he has the strength to lift him in the space. But when Kryptonite all around him. You see it all around him. And yet he has the strength to lift him in the space. But when Kryptonite's around him, he's supposed to be as weak as a human baby, or depending on whatever comic it is. So how is it that he has... Is it just willpower that he can lift that island?

I think it's willpower and good old-fashioned American grit. You know what I mean? That makes sense. It does, doesn't it? They should have said that at the end. How did you lift the island, Superman? Yep. Willpower.

Elbow grease. Love of a good woman. There we go. So, out of... No, I'm not doing that. No. Next one. I said Superman Returns, yeah?

You did say Superman Returns. What do you got? I have an Iron Man 2 and 3. Okay, yep, yep. There's good parts. I agree, yeah. Sam Rockwell. Sam Rockwell is great in everything.

He's awesome in everything. Okay, I would watch a video sent from the future of Sam Rockwell beating me up. I'd watch that and he'd be just laying into me and I'd be like, oh, he's great in this. He's so good in this. But tell me, would there be anybody who's like, I don't want to watch that? Of course you want to watch a video from the future of yourself being beaten up. By Sam Rockwell.

Well, anybody. Yeah, I guess so. But yeah, that's a good point he's great have you seen Seven Psychopaths no that's great

I've seen Confessions of a Dangerous Mind we saw that together yeah what a memory oh don't remember that yeah

okay that's okay Sam Rockwell's great in it yeah what else is great the briefcase with the armour in it that's awesome

I remember seeing that trailer and just being that was like the Superman bullet to the eye kind of moment for me that's my favourite Iron Man armour from the movies

because I like that it's portable and it's kind of cool and you can I mean I know he's got more advanced ones and it's not even the strongest like he's marked

what's his first one that's cut me I don't know what I'm going to say the first one that's colour I think it's marked 4 3? it's 3 8

it's not 8 57 no? It's 3. 8. It's not 8. 50? No. He doesn't have that many. He has that many. He doesn't. He's got like 40 something. But yeah, that's a great scene.

Weird that Whiplash would not cover his body. It is, isn't it? And it's weird too that Iron Man's first move in any of those fights wouldn't just be to fire a rocket just around the corner. Yeah. And just have it circle back and hit somebody in the back of the head I don't think that suit does that I think it's only got repulses

and you can be whipped and you're okay for a little bit but it still hurts it stings but you know what my problem with that movie is it ends the same way as the first one does in that it's just a fight with a guy in an Iron

Man suit. It is, and there's a sort of a sacrifice. There's maybe going to be a sacrifice. Maybe they die in a repulsive blast, but they don't. That's a good point, actually. But no, I'm okay with Iron Man. I didn't love it. I saw it and I went, that was pretty underwhelming, but I'm okay with it.

And what about 3? 3 again? It works as a buddy comedy. It works as a buddy comedy, absolutely. It's dumb as a nine-man film. You've definitely covered this in a video before. I probably have. I think in that movie there's a lot of Iron Man grappling with dudes. Yeah. And I think that's because Shane Black is good at directing people grappling. He's good at directing Mel Gibson grappling. Grappling with racism, sure. Or did he? No, he wrote Lethal Women and directed it. I think Richard Donner did it. Ooh. Yeah. He's back. He's back. He's not. He's dead. Is he dead? I'm not looking it up. Let's get him on the show. Let's get him on the show and talk to him

about it. His potential death. People are listening to this and losing their minds. We're making mistakes left, right and centre and just moving on and people are just jumping up and down. Oh, they should leave a comment in the thing. Absolutely. There's going to be a thing, right? There will be a thing.

Okay, they can comment in the thing. Okay, so... Where was I? Richard Donner's dead. No, before that. God. Shane Black's good

at shooting fist fight action sequences but not so good with actual superhero sequences. No. I'd agree with that. I think...

The aerial scene's pretty good. And that makes a lot of Iron Man's actions in the movie sort of nonsensical. Yeah. Because why would he get into a grapple with somebody he knows is going to shut his suit down? Yeah. He'd just stay a long way away. And shoot the back of the head missile.

Back of the head missile, exactly. Same with the final battle sequence, which, again, looks pretty good. It does look pretty good. But if you have 30 fully autonomous, fully armed Iron Man suits, and you do, we know you do, we want to have them just stay at extreme range and just shoot lasers until everybody's dead. That's why grapple, you're right, with lava men. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point.

And also, and I think this has been covered ad nauseum on the internet, but... The internet? You know, it's a really good point. And also, and I think this has been covered ad nauseum on the internet, but... The internet? You know, it's a series of tubes. Oh. All around us. Like fallopian tubes? No, it's like an information superhighway. Okay.

Yeah. Okay, I get it. Like a cyberspace? I don't get it. I'm just saying I get it. The interwebbles. Yeah. Okay, good.

But he invites the Mandarin to his home. Yes. Where, again, he has 30 fully operational autonomous suits. He does. That have heaps of guns and lasers and what have you. Yeah. And then he's surprised when the Mandarin shows up and blows the house up.

I was surprised. I mean, and he could have fixed that with a line of dialogue. He could have said, Jarvis, hey, get all those millions of suits out of storage. It could have been like, there's a virus. Yeah. I can't do anything. I'm very British.

I'm so British. I'm so... Look, it's tea time, honestly. So, it's... You're Yeah. I can't do anything. I'm very British. I'm so British. I'm so... Look, it's tea time, honestly. So, it's... You're right. They could have fixed that. Because it would have had at least one... You'd think at least, even if the suits weren't ready, you'd put on the suit that's not a

prototype suit. That's been known to rattle off you at just random points in time. Anyway. What were we talking about? Redeeming qualities? Oh, were we? Okay. Everybody's good in it. Anyway. What were we talking about? Redeeming qualities? Ah, were we? Okay. Everybody's good in it.

Yeah, that's true. And, um, you know, a lot of the action sequences are quite good, visually. You're right about the aerial sequence. Yeah, aerial sequence.

Although, again, it is disappointing he's not in the suit. Yes, it is. Because he's not in the suit for a lot of it. Yeah. The sequence where

he breaks into the Mandarin's... You know, the entire sequence where he breaks into the Mandarin's... You know, the entire sequence where he's in the Mandarin's compound, where he breaks in and then he fights... Ben Kingsley. Yeah,

he fights Ben Kingsley. He defeats the guards with wearing one boot and one glove. Yeah, that was great. I really liked that scene. That's really,

really cool. And yeah, and the interplay between him and the kid, I think it was quite funny. Yeah, I hate kids in movies. I hate kids in life. Yeah. But also, I hate kids in movies much, much more. And the interplay between him and the kid, I think it was quite funny. Yeah, I hate kids in movies. I hate kids in life.

Yeah. But also, I hate kids in movies much, much more. And that kid was tolerable. Yes. You know who's a really good kid in a movie? Kid in a movie? Macaulay Culkin. Yes.

Wow. Name one of his movies. I can't. Richie Rich. Oh. Best film ever. I'm just going to let that sit there. No.

For as much as ten minutes. You're a prick. But yeah, Iron Man 2 and 3, they're okay, I think. The best Iron Man film, I think, is The Avengers. Even though it's not technically an Iron Man film. Though he's in it quite a lot. I think Robert Downey Jr. got $50 million for it, so I think it is an Iron Man film. Yeah, fair point.

Alright, I see what I've got next? Yes. Okay. Constantine! Okay, I'm on board. We saw this, right? Yes. Okay. Constantine. Okay, I'm on board. We saw this, right? Yes, I've seen this. I think we saw it together.

Yeah. Constantine, I would say, is probably one of my favourite kind of underrated comic book movies. I've only seen it maybe only once, but I remember enjoying it quite a bit at the time. Now, I know they changed a lot about the character. He's supposed to look like Sting. Is that right? He is, yes.

He is. Isn't he based directly off Sting? Pretty much. I mean, Sting in a trench coat. Sting in a trench coat. So, I mean, just head, you know, neck up He is, yes. He is. Isn't he based, like, directly off Sting? Pretty much. I mean, Sting in a trench coat. Sting in a trench coat. So, I mean, just head, you know, neck up. So, blonde and kind of Sting-ish. Sting-ish.

Yeah. So, and he's not British. I've got here, not blonde, not British, not Sting. Oh. So, they fucked that up. They really did. But, what are you going to do? You're not going to...

Who's going to pay money for that, though, at the box office? Me. Us. No. We would have seen that. You'll pay for one. You'll pay for British. Yep. Jason St me us no we would you'll pay you'll pay for one you'll pay for british yeah jason statham sure you'll pay for blonde um taliony taliony sure you're ish okay yep you'll pay for the third thing that you said not sting not sting so i'll pay to go see a movie that's not you will pay although you will pay lock stock and two smoking

barrels you pay for that. Oh, yeah, he's good in that. He's good in that. Guys, they should have got Sting. They should. Anyway, continue. You've seen June? No.

He's in that. He's completely... He's wearing just this tiny pair of underwear, and he's all oiled up. And he doesn't seem... Anyway, look it up. It's really weird. Is that a theatrically released movie? Yeah, in the 80s.

Or is it just something on the YouTube? Oh, I see. Oh, June! Oh, June! What do you think I said? I said June. Yeah, June! I get it. really weird um is that a theatrically released movie yeah something on the youtube oh i see it's spelled with a j right yeah yeah yeah like the month leave a comment tell me if i'm wrong okay that's what it says on the poster june you know like the month and there's a giant sandworm you know like the month guys yeah so i think keanu Reeves, I know people are like, Oh, he's wooden. He sucks.

But I quite like Keanu Reeves. So a guy who's got very limited range, he's, he's okay to watch. Do you agree with that? I think he's better. He's much better to watch. Watching a man with a limited range work well within that range.

Like it's just as good. It's just as good as watching say a madman who'll do any do any film, just whatever script arrives. You're saying Nicolas Cage. I'm saying Nicolas Cage, exactly. I think they both work. They do, yeah. I genuinely like Keanu Reeves. I think all people like Keanu Reeves. Obviously, his movies still make money.

People go to his movies. Yeah. Even those Matrix sequels, which are garbage. But yeah, look, I think he's good in that movie with material he's given and the action scenes in it if you remember they're kind of clever do you remember the one

where he gets Shia LaBeouf Shia LaBeouf's in that movie do you remember that? before he was like massive I think it was After Holes After Holes but he's still like a little kid and he's like

I want to be just like you John Constantine let's go fight evil I've got a cabbie hat on terrible but do you remember they rigged the sprinkler system

with holy water? I do remember that. And then he sets it off and there's like a room full of demons and then he just shotguns like all of them after the holy water

and it's amazing. And there's that scene where he fights the guy from Bush with the demons. Do you remember that? He like melts his face off. Gavin Rossdale.

Gavin Rossdale of Bush. Remember when Gavin Rossdale was more popular than Gwen Stefani? They're married by the way for those who don't know that. Or they were married. Are they married?

I think they're still married. Let's get them on the show. Let's get them on the show, guys. Yeah. Also, I like... You remember the ending as well, where he dies? And the devil played by Peter... What's his name?

You know, that vaguely Eastern European guy. Peter Strawn. Strawnmr. Yeah, Peter Strawnmwnmouth yeah Peter Strawnmouth Strawnmouth yeah Peter Strawnmouth Satan comes up because he's the only soul

that Satan Constantine is the only soul that Satan will come to earth to collect personally because he escaped hell that one time when he was a kid

when he killed himself that's a whole thing I'm sure but you know when he goes to heaven because he tricks Satan and then he gives him the finger

as he's going. And it's quite funny. That's pretty great. It's a really good scene. Yeah. I would say it's like a good version. Remember those Russian movies, Night Watch, Day Watch? Remember that we watched?

I do. Why do people like those? I don't know. They're terrible. Like, maybe they're good by like Russian movie standards. I don't want to insult Russian movies. I haven't seen any. Except for these two, and they suck. Yeah.

I think we can make a blanket generalisation. It's fine. Are you sure? Yeah. Okay. But yeah, those movies... I think it's a good, or at least a better version of those movies. I think it's better than it could have been, which I know isn't saying much, but I think

it's worth a watch at least once. I think that's... Blu-ray. Definitely on Blu-ray.. I think that's... Blu-ray. Definitely on Blu-ray, sure. I don't need Blu-rays. Neither do I. Why bother? Yeah, I think that's... That is kind of a trend. It is often

the best they could... I'm glad it didn't go the other way. There are a lot of movies that I'm glad weren't made ten years prior, like Watchmen. Yeah, oh god a lot of people like in the 90s when they were going to make

the Tom Cruise I a lot of people there are mixed feelings about Watchmen I quite enjoyed it except for a couple of changes I agree

yeah do you not like the squid they took the squid out no I'm okay with them taking the squid out I'm upset with them taking some of the lines away from Doctor Manhattan

and giving them to you know what I'm upset about I can't even remember what the lines are. In Watchmen, the movie, I think they were very much... Somebody at the studio, I guess, was in favour of making Ozymandias

definitively a villain. Yeah, yeah. Because in the comic book, obviously, he has doubts about what he's done he needs to save the world it's kind of not ambiguous

and in the movie in the original comic book he expresses some doubts at the end doesn't he he says it all

worked out in the end right and Doggy Man's like I don't know I don't know what am I a future seeing guy he is guy he is

yeah he is though but in the movie those lines are given to Silk Spectre and Night Owl that's a weird choice it is a weird choice

isn't it because I guess in the movie they don't want him to express any doubt he's the villain and he did this villainous thing

to save the world but he's still the villain good point it is a really good point make heaps of good points you've made at least 8 I've been counting thank you and he did this villainous thing to save the world, but he's still the villain. Yeah. Good point. It is a really good point. Well played. You make heaps of good points, James. You've made at least eight. I've been counting.

Thank you. What have you got? Ah, boy. I think I'm down to movies that only have one redeeming feature. Okay, that's cool. Because my next one is like... No, you go. Okay, well, I was going to say The Punisher.

Which one? Thomas Jane. Thomas Jane, yeah. So 2004, I think. Okay, well I was going to say The Punisher. Which one? Thomas Jane. Thomas Jane, yeah. So 2004, I think. Yeah, don't say the date. I shouldn't say the date, should I? We'll get letters. We'll get old-fashioned letters

delivered by carrier pigeon. Thomas Jane is great in that. Yeah, he is. It's garbage. Yeah, yeah. I think... You know what, though? There's that really good scene

where he fights Giant Popeye. Uh-huh, sure. Remember how the guy turns up and says, and this guy is just, I'm sure he's some kind of professional wrestler. I don't know anything about wrestling, so write a comment. Okay, we'll pause the podcast. You'll get up to speed on professional wrestling, and then we can talk about it.

Done. Yeah. Hollywood Hulk Hogan. Can you believe it? I can't believe it. He made a sex tape. Oh, boy. Not intentionally.

Somebody filmed him. That's not the purview of this podcast. Let's, it's an off-air conversation, James. Okay, alright, sorry. Basically, no, you were saying, was I saying?

Yeah, Giant Popeye. Yeah, the Giant Popeye comes in and there's this kind of funny, comical, like, brutal fight scene where Punisher's just like throwing everything at him and he got the secret gun

and the guy just like bends it with the weights and he ends up throwing the boiling pot of water in his face. Remember that? I do. And then he throws him down a flight of stairs, I think.

It's an amazing scene. It's a really good scene. Okay. Yeah. I'll concede that. John Travolta. I know you like him as well. Oh, no, he's the worst.

Okay, I feel that. Would you say John Travolta is the Nicolas Cage of films? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Community theatre, at least. Yeah. I think there was a period, and I think it was from about 2004 till Iron Man, I would say, till first Iron Man, where I think movie studios thought they had everything figured

out. They did, though, didn't they? Like superhero movies figured out. And they're like, okay, all you need is an origin story and a villain, and then this story sequence happens, and then there's redemption at the end, and it's great. Yeah. And we've nailed this. Yeah. And we can's redemption at the end and it's great. We've nailed this. And we can have a nice PG-13 movie for everybody.

And then they just went down the list and went, oh, The Punisher. Let's slot him in. And so it's become this weird PG family friendly death wish kind of movie. Yeah. And he's an FBI agent for starters. That's strange, yeah. It's odd because... But he's like a nice guy as well. And it's He's an FBI agent For starters Which I find That's strange yeah

It's odd because But he's like a nice guy as well Yeah Was the Punisher ever Before he was the Punisher Was he ever like a super nice guy Oh it's been It's been

It's been reworked A couple of times Okay yeah But he And I'm sure FBI agents have seen Some strange things Sure

But they've also got Like Molden Scully Yeah exactly They've also got like Company cars And a nice cafeteria probably Like a war veteran Has seen some strange things. Sure. But they've also got like... Molderman Scully. Yeah, exactly. They've also got like company cars and a nice cafeteria probably. Like a war veteran has seen some horrific things. There's a difference, yeah, I guess, yeah. And it did seem odd that he was not a war veteran in this because he is a guy who essentially

uses military tactics against the mob. That is his whole... Yeah. That's his whole deal. And like there was some weird... Again, because it was a sort of towing the line between this action film and kind of family friendly there's this weird contrived scenes where like his son's like hey dad i got you this t-shirt with a skull on it

and he's like well son that's a it's a fun it'll protect you i mean where am i ever gonna wear that t-shirt but thanks for the gift, my only living son. And then riddled with bullets. Riddled with bullets, exactly, yeah. But you know, have you seen, well, there's a Dolph Lundgren one, I haven't seen that, have you seen that? No.

I haven't seen that. I don't want to see it. Apparently he's just an angry guy with a gun and that. Like he doesn't even wear that. That sounds closer to that. Yeah, it does. It kind of does, actually. And Warzone, obviously.

It's amazing. Yeah. Did you see the short film, the Thomas Jane short film? Dirty Laundry. I did see that. That's an awesome... That is really good. That's what they should do.

You know what I would like to see? It wouldn't make any money, but they should do it. It would make zero money. You know what I would like to see? Because, again, in the original comic books, or at least as it stands now, especially with the Punisher Max, the adults-only sort of version of the Punisher. Yeah. His origin...

Is that the one where he's nude from the waist down? Yeah, all the time. Just constantly. He's just got the skull swinging. It's weird. His origin is one of the few that's remained in the time period where it began. So he's still a Vietnam War veteran. I guess now he's a man in his 60s who's been fighting crime as the Punisher for decades.

And I would kind of like to see... Because Captain America worked, right? Yeah, I thought so. That's a good film. I think it kind of loses it towards the end, but I think... I really like Captain America. Yeah. Sorry, go on.

I would like to see a Punisher period film that begins in the 70s. Like a weird grindhouse version. Thomas Jane. That's what they wanted to do with the new Daredevil before the rights went back. Oh, that's right. What's his name? The guy who did Wolf Fight.

Liam Neeson Wolf Fight? Oh yeah, sure. What's that movie called? I love that movie. Anyway, here we... This podcast should be called The Listener's Stream Fact Status. It should be called Listen, You Idiots.

Wolf Fight. Wolf Fight. It's definitely called Wolf Fight. It's definitely called Wolf Fight. But the director of that, he was going to make a 70s kind of... Well, you were talking about a gritty kind of 70s style daredevil movie before the rights went back to Marvel. Wow.

Which I don't think... I think it would have worked if he went for the kind of Frank Miller kind of daredevil. before the rights went back to Marvel which I don't think I think it would have worked if you went for the kind of Frank Miller kind of Daredevil but I think it's better that

it's in the hands of Marvel and they can hopefully incorporate him into the Avengers or in that world maybe not the Avengers specifically

see I would see I would see like this 70s era Punisher yeah you could have 70s Daredevil or you could have like some weird 70s

characters that you don't see like Shang-Chi Master of Kung Fu or whatever like little guest appearances is he super racist? not racist himself not

is he racist no there's more racist is he a racist caricature no no he's quite no he's quite he's no egg foo certainly

what? let's leave that alone um but then you know maybe you could put him in hiding or like No, he's no egg foo, certainly. What? Let's leave that alone. But then, you know, maybe you could put him in hiding, or like Captain America, you could put him in hiding, you could put him in jail for a number of decades. Yeah, that's cool. And then bring him out. You could keep Thomas Jane.

I'd like to see Thomas Jane. Yeah. And then he escapes from prison or he escapes from his, you know, he returns from his solitude or he returns from his... And he's kind of a man out of time, just kicking skulls. Yeah, just kicking skulls. Yeah. That would be cool.

You should direct a punishing movie. I should direct that movie. Hollywood, I know you are listening. Nobody's listening. Nobody's listening. Yeah, that's... Yeah, I don't hate that movie. It's good.

No. Well, is it? No, it's not good. It's okay. You know what? is it? No, it's not good. It's okay. You know what? Everything about it is terrible other than that. The sequence where he blows up all the cars at the end and it forms a Punisher skull.

The Punisher... Too stylized. Would you... Okay, would you liken that, though... Yes. ...to what Batman does in The Dark Knight Rises where he makes the big flame bat symbol on the side of the bridge? No, because Batman's got a lot more money. But, yeah, but he didn't have anything at that point.

Because he just came back. You know, I'm not even going to get into this. That's the whole thing. Please don't. I like that movie as well. For anybody who gives a fuck. Okay, so. There's an explicit tag on this episode.

I don't know if we should. Oh, yeah, sorry. I should. I've't know if we should... Oh, yeah, sorry. I should have said it like four or five times. Okay, so, Spider-Man 3. No redeeming feature. Look, this is the one on this whole list that I hate the most because it should know better. Right.

Because it comes from better stock. Uh-huh. Because it had two decent films behind it, in particular part two. I'm not going to disagree, but continue. You're an idiot. I know. Part two is a good movie.

Uh-huh. But yeah, basically, I love Spider-Man 2 and I was really excited to see where it would go. So I just want to talk about why I hate the movie before I talk about the very few redeeming qualities. Is that cool? Please go ahead. I'm not going to do this.

It is. Okay. It's weird. I'm going to veto that. No, continue. Okay. It's weird. It's like to veto that. No, continue. Okay. It's weird. It's like a parody of a Spider-Man.

It's like a parody of the previous two films. You know the same way that Terminator 3, which again, I don't hate, but is like a parody of the previous two? Yes. I feel that way about Spider-Man 3. Like it's somebody else who's gone, I can make a Spider-Man 3. Somebody who's not Sam Raimi. And it doesn't, it looks like the world, but doesn't fit the

world. Do you think Sam Raimi did that deliberately? See, that's the thing, though. He might have, because he's way better than what that movie is. Yeah, and he did say, I'm not going to use Venom. Yeah. Venom, as a character, as a villain, it's not a good villain for this, and then they made him do it.

They made him do it, yeah. Perhaps he's self-sabotaged. And you know what was weird? Like, at the time, I wanted to see Venom and he came out and said, or whoever came out and said, we're doing Sandman.

And I went, I don't really want to see Sandman. Rather see Venom, whatever. In hindsight, that's, I was wrong on that because they absolutely, not that I even love the character of Venom,

but I just thought it would have been an interesting villain for him to go up against. Somebody who's got the same kind of skill set as him, plus a little bit more. Plus you can do the whole black suit thing and whatever. But anyway, there's no explanation for where the black suit comes from. You're forgetting space. Yeah, but that's...

No, like outer space? Outer space. Like there's stuff in outer space, right? The black, when you look up. We're pointing up, listeners. We're both pointing up. My arm's pointing up. Yep.

Yeah. But, okay, look. I know it's from space in the comics, or in some incarnations of the comics. It's from space or whatever. But it's just a meteor drops out of nowhere, lands 20 feet from Peter Parker. Is that intentional? It could have been. They don't explain whether it is or not.

If it was intentional, they should have mentioned that. Otherwise, what are the chances of that happening? What are the statistical... What is the statistical probability of that happening? Answer me. Use maths and answer the... Sorry.

Well, pretty good. No, it's not true. It's not. Slim to none. No, you're right. The point is, they didn't have to do it that way. They could have done it in... I know in Ultimate Spider-Man, it's created in a lab.

It's a cure for cancer. Something like that, yeah. Have you read it? I think I read a few. Many years ago, sure. But... Which would have made more sense, because those films, they're not realistic, but the science is... They're not?

They're not realistic, but the science is... They're not? The science is, like, pseudo-realistic in the sense that it makes its own set of rules and it sticks to them. Yeah, all... Except for three. All the villains in Spider-Man, generally speaking, are some sort of misfit of science. Yeah. There's some sort of science experiment gone wrong, so it would make perfect sense for Venom to be that. Exactly.

Like, Green Goblin in the movies, Ghast, he's the Green Goblin. Doc Ock, regular guy, arms drilled into his back. Octopus Man. That's what they call him, right? Yeah, Octopus Man. Octopus Man, yeah. So that all makes sense. And all of a sudden it's...

Larry Octopus. Yeah, Larry Octopus. And then it's suddenly Space Alien. Just for no reason. Exactly. And again, maybe that comes back to what you were saying. He just did it like, whatever. This is what's happening.

And it is weird that they could have again they could have added a lot they could have added a deleted scene and they could have added a scene yeah where like uh like a scientist creates it and then just like fires it out of a cannon like accidentally you know that's yeah that would work yeah sure it would make more sense it would make more i don't know why he would fight that though that kind of happened in the last Spider-Man. Remember, he fires the lizard gas out of it. I haven't seen it.

You haven't seen it? I haven't seen it. That's okay. I'm tired of Spider-Man movies, I'll be honest with you. I don't think... I'm tired of origin films. I think I've mentioned that. Not to me. But, um...

But look... Sorry, I've got a whole list of things here. I already said that. Hang on. Yeah, I said Dr. Connors could have developed it, even though that's not what happened in the comics, but he could have done it because he's in it. They set him up to be the lizard,

and then they never do that for obvious reasons. But look, Venom, as we said, it's a terrible villain to use. It's a poor use of him. He's really poorly cast. I don't hate Topher Grace, but that's a really poor casting decision. But I think Sandman, the character of Sandman,

and what they did with him in that movie for the little he was in it was actually quite interesting because unlike Venom who's just at the end like I just want to be bad

I'm a jerk you know just because I got fired and he prays that Peter Parker gets killed like he just makes that leap Sandman's like kind of sympathetic

the way that the other two villains in the previous movies were where it's kind of like you knew where he was coming from he had the sick daughter and that kind of makes sense. And I think if it had have been just the black suit, where you've got like a really kind of brutal kind of Spider-Man

going up against a sympathetic villain like Sandman, I think that would have made it much more interesting than whatever happened. I was going to swear I could stop myself. Whatever happened in the end. Go ahead. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I was going to swear again. I can stop myself. Whatever happened in the end. Go ahead. Yeah. No, I think you're right.

I don't know. For me personally, I enjoyed Spider-Man 1 and 2. Yeah. But personally, I didn't feel it's Spider-Man 3. It's not great, certainly. No. The dance sequence certainly isn't great. Is it not?

Oh, it's the best part of the film. Yeah. It's not great. not? Oh, it's the best part of the film. Yeah. It's not great. Spider-Man 1 and 2 are not films that I would put on just to have a fun evening in. No. I feel that Spider-Man is sort of the, he's the original sort of hard luck hero where

he's like, oh, I'm going to, how do I juggle these identities and pay my rent and all this sort of stuff. I would argue that Steel from the movie Steel is the original hard luck hero. You haven't seen it. Sorry, go on. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, go on.

But he's also a fun loving character and he has crazy adventures and what have you. He's not very fun loving. He's not. What they seem to have done is they've taken

the X number of decades of his existence and taken extracted all the misery and packed it into nine hours. So like his parents are dead and his uncle Ben is dead and he lives in like this rat hole house

and they're going to evict him and his aunt all the time and you know he can't tell Mary Jane that he's the hero and everybody hates him and he's late to things he's late to operas all the time He is late to a lot

of operas and just i don't know just just a lot of misery packed into those that isn't very yeah that's a really good point so it's it's not a fun watch any of them so you'd argue that they're all terrible on some level yes no they're good well made. And again, it's like the Daredevil thing where they're very much of the time. And they did lead to better things. I think people know from the stakes, the multiple villain things, they packed them into three.

I think less films have done that than since then because they know it's a terrible idea to pack a film with villains. Hence why you've only got Loki and the Chitauri and the Avengers and other things that I cannot remember. Other examples? Sure. Wolf Fight. Just wolves.

Just wolves. They were going to have wolves and killer clowns. Yeah. And they were like, you know. That's right. Yeah, Wolf Fight. Just wolves. Just wolves.

Great movie. I can't believe it's just wolves. Subtitle. Pretty great. All right. I'm out. That's everything I've got, yeah. Great movie. I can't believe it's just Wolves, subtitle. Pretty great. Alright, I'm out. That's everything I've got. So what have you got? I've got a few others that I just want to make brief mention of.

What else have you got? We might as well wrap it up. Talking about good films that I'm not going to watch again, probably. Okay. The Nolan Batman films. That's right. I've said that thing. You've just...

How do you like that? I mean, it's... That's fine. It's totally fine. I'm sure other people have this. That's right. I've said that thing. You've just... How do you like that? I mean, it's... No, it's fine. It's totally fine. I'm sure other people have this. They're good. They're good. Yeah.

Do you think it's the too realistic thing? No. Is it the voice? It's the voice. Is it his lisp? Is it his eye wart? It's all of those things. Okay.

You know what? Heath Ledger's Joker is probably my favourite villainous performance of all time. Clearly you've never seen Steel. I've never seen Steel with whatever villain was in Steel. It's probably... It's probably like an inner city land developer. Yeah, it would be. It wants to close the rec centre, I would assume.

But he's got thugs with guns for some reason. I bet that's what it is. And do you think the bullets would ping off Steel? Yes. That makes sense that he would wear that. Yeah, that's what it is. And do you think the bullets would ping off steel? Yes. Yeah. That makes sense that he would wear that. Yeah. It's a really good idea.

When you think about it. But he's great in it and people are also great in it. Yeah. Again, it's not, they're not movies I'd watch for fun. Do you think it's the same thing that you said with Spider-Man where it's too grim? I mean, Batman is grim,

so that's probably a stupid thing to say. I think they're not... They're very... They're dark dramas. There's a lot of... Would you say they're more procedural police cop films? Because people have said that as well. It's kind of more like a movie...

Like The Town than a Batman movie. They do use a lot of CSI logic. There's a scene in The Dark Knight... that, wait, The Dark Knight, sure. You're talking about the bullet thing, aren't you? I'm talking about the bullet thing. Exactly. Where he's trying to figure out who the killers are, so he cuts out a piece of brick that's got a shattered bullet in it.

And then he takes it to his bat cave. Not cave, he's under like a... He's under a thing. He's under layer. Yeah, because his cave was gone. Yeah I know. You don't know. And then he scans it with a laser.

Yeah. And then the computer builds the puts the bullet back together digitally. Yeah. And then he scans a fingerprint off it.

But you forgot the bit where he also shoots the gun into other bricks. Oh he has a really big gun and he shoots the bullet. Okay I forgot about

that. I forgot that incredible piece of logic that's in there. But no that doesn't that makes it less... Notwithstanding that the fingerprint probably wouldn't be on the bullet, it'd be on the casing, which is over there.

You could just pick that up. But isn't it, though, that the Joker put the bullet print on there on purpose so it would lead him to the guy at the window so they would think that he was the sniper? Could have just sent a letter. Could have just sent a letter, but not only that, but that still doesn't explain why he could use sonar to get a...

Yeah, and I guess it is... I guess it's because Batman is supposedly the world's greatest detective. Not supposedly. No, he is. Is.

Definitively is. Edit point. We're saying it. No, it's fine. Keep it in. It's supposed to be sort of a visual shorthand to prove that he's the world's greatest detective. But notwithstanding that it's fine. Keep it in. It's supposed to be a visual shorthand to prove that he's the world's greatest detective. But notwithstanding that it's ridiculous,

I could have done that. If I had that machine, I could have done it. You could have done it. Listeners, you could have all done it. I bet there's some people out there who could have done it. I'm very technophobic. This intranet that you... Tintowebbles.

Tintowebbles, that's right. That's a big call. Yeah, they're okay. They're okay. But in the summer that produced The Dark Knight and Iron Man, if I'm watching a movie for fun, it's an Iron Man.

Iron Man, The Avengers. It's a Marvel movie, probably. Do you know what people are going to say? They're going to turn and be like, you're like Marvel more, you're a dickhead. You're a Marvel fan more. I'm okay with that.

You're a, you know, whatever okay with that you're a you know whatever they'll call you call you names then they'll call me names yeah I can't have that like frankly that's what I'm banking on

my self esteem cannot take it guys James made me say all that you should tell you should say horrible names I think what you're saying though

isn't that's not uncommon for people to say that you're definitely not the only person who said that I think if anything I mean I don't know how this Batman Superman the only person who said that. I think, if anything... I mean, I don't know how this Batman-Superman film is going to turn out.

But I think it will be interesting to see a more kind of comic book-y Batman than what we've had so far. I'd like it to be fun. That's all I wanted. Would you like something closer to the Arkham games? That's what I would like. I would like that. I would like something like the Avengers, where... You love Marvel!

I know! I'm a little, where... You love Marvel! I know! I'm a little fat boy! Oh, God! Yeah, I guess I'd like the Arkham films. A little bit of colour. Yeah. A little bit of... Yeah.

I don't know. I just think it's... But you know what, though? Because of what is set up in Man of Steel, again, you haven't seen it because you love Marvel so much. I've done so much. But that's a pretty grim film. So that's what worries me.

And I said this in one of my videos, that I don't know that the tone that they've set is a very good one for future films. Because they've set it too dark from the start. Yes. And then it's just going to stay grim. And maybe they're doing that on purpose because they're like, we're not like Marvel. We're serious. We're serious about our superheroes.

You guys are dickheads. That's President of Warner Brothers talking. Look, Superman doesn't have his underpants on the outside anymore. We're taking this deadly serious, gentlemen. Look, Batman has a ridiculous voice. We're taking this very seriously. I'm looking forward to that. His bat voice.

I want to see what he does. Oh, Batfleck. Yeah. He's not going to do anything like that yeah exactly I mean we had three

Batman movies yeah and look I'll forgive the first one sure but surely in the second one Lucius Fox could have

handed him a little thing yep and could have tweaked his voice so it sounds like his normal voice but with a little

bit of a booming resonance that would be cool and he could have been like thank god for that that was murder on my throat. You know?

I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. We could have had a moment of levity, but we didn't. There is, somebody's made the argument, and I don't think this is actually true, that he does have that, and that's why his voice sounds like that.

But I don't think that's true. That's not true at all. Because also, when he gets stabbed by, spoilers, Talia al Ghul, may as well, that his voice kind of reverts back to Bruce Wayne briefly.

Oh, me guts! Yeah, me guts. Just before he flies his nuclear weapon into the ocean or whatever happens at the end of that movie. But yeah, look, I'm glad those movies exist. I'm also glad they're finished because I don't think you can take it any further. I don't really want to see a Joseph Gordon-Levitt,

Nightwing, Batman, Robin, whatever they may have done after that. I think it's good to see a Joseph Gordon-Levitt Nightwing, Batman, Robin, whatever they may have done after that. I think it's good. It's all contained in the universe. It all makes sense. Believe it. All right.

I'm back in favour of reboots. Let's reboot this again. It's fine. There we go. How long do you think we should probably do a podcast on reboots? But how long do you think

between reboots they should wait? Spider-Man, they had to make a new one because that would have lost the rights. Right, but that doesn't mean they

should have. But yeah, they're going to though, they're not going to let that lapse. Well, I guess so. Even if they make a terrible Spider-Man

movie, it's going to make minimum $500 million. I mean morally they should have rebooted it. Yeah, that's true. From an ethical

standpoint they shouldn't have rebooted it. That's true. I can't argue with that. Is there any other ones on the list

that you've got? I made a brief, brief, brief mention of Fantastic Four 2. I was going to mention that. I think Fantastic Four 2 is better than

Spider-Man 3 because I remember they came out the same year or at the same time and I remember enjoying Fantastic Four 2 to my surprise because that first movie

and horror. Oh my god, that first movie is just... I'm not a fan of Fantastic Four so what do I care if it's garbage no I don't hate them

but I mean like if they but it's just such a bad movie and number two is kind of a little bit more fun Chris Evans is really good because a lot of it's on him the film

you know he gets all the powers at the end he punches doom with the rock hands and whatever and the silver surf is quite good in it and there's that scene where he

chases him through the city and that's quite good yep but it's not a good movie and I'm glad they're rebooting it you know who's doing it the guy who Chronicle Josh Trank is

directing I haven't seen Chronicle what it's on my list it's on my list James full disclosure listeners I haven't listened I haven't watched

any films listeners you're just making educated guesses just being look I just look I just look at making educated guesses just being look I just look I just look at the poster and I sort of guess

yeah I'm like oh boy everybody sort of stands in a line in this movie don't they they do

most movies sometimes you can see half a guy's face and half the other guy's face it's a weird movie that's face off what about face off yeah okay

Nicholas Cage and John Travolta two of our heroes two of our they're on my family crest oh god yeah yeah look also I put down

um can I go back to Fantastic Four for a second oh sorry go on yeah before I move on I do feel though because I remember hating Fantastic Four 1

yeah and then surprisingly enjoying yeah Fantastic Four 2 that's exactly how I remember I've only seen both of them once I do feel that maybe it's a kind of a Stockholm Syndrome

in the sense that the first one was so bad. Yeah. We just... We had very low expectations. Yeah, our expectations were so low. I know that's not what Stockholm Syndrome is. That's exactly what Stockholm Syndrome is. Stockholm? Stockholm. That's how you say it, yeah?

I think our standards became so low that anything that wasn't... Well, that's how you say it yeah I think our standards became so low that anything that wasn't well that's a good point because going into Spider-Man 3 I know you didn't care but I was like

I'm looking forward to this Span-Texas 4-0-2 I'm like I shouldn't even be here that's what I felt and it was surprisingly not the worst I put down

I put down Hulk not because I like the original Hulk yeah the TV show no with Bill Bixby yeah he's dead

for real yeah Luke Friedman is still alive though so there's that oh Downer double Downer no I'm kidding I'm kidding

I like Leroy Finnear he's great he's deaf oh deaf-ish so many Downers I know right end end

no I'm kidding but yeah look I know a lot of people don't mind this movie. I don't like it. I think Ang Lee got... Oh, I like Ang Lee. I think he's a great director.

But he got that whole movie wrong. Even down to the point where... Do you remember they had comic book panels in the actual movie? Boy, do I ever. Because it was like, oh, it's like a comic book. So it's a comic book movie, so we'll put comic book panels in. And remember the bit where the guy makes the explosion in the cartoon explosion that's behind him? Boy, do I ever.

I'm doing the explosion heads. Explosion heads, sure. But, yeah, I think the Hulk in that, there's the one scene where he kind of, where he's in the desert,

where he's, which is okay, I think. But other than that, there's the poodle bit where he fights the Hulk dogs. Oh, the giant Hulk dogs. Which isn't very good. Yep.

There's the end bit where he fights his drunk dad and which isn't very good yep there's the um end bit where he fights his drunk dad and his dad turns into a giant bubble yeah and he absorbs all his energy but then he absorbs too much energy the lesson we all learned that day was yeah exactly don't absorb energy so the the one of the one of the storylines of the Hulk like the movie or no the comic book series when Peter David writer of the Hulk had the series

he did do what specific year sorry oh god after I was born but before I died okay cool and

he did do a storyline about the Hulk's multiple personalities being a result of familial abuse. Okay, so that's where they pulled that from. That is canon. I'm no problem with any of that.

The problem being is that that was built on a solid foundation of 30 years of the Hulk just smashing things, just having a grand old time and just smashing the hell out of stuff. He did have a good time. And so there was room to build that character. It was time to add an extra dimension to that character. Do something else, yeah. I think a Hulk movie should just be,

and I think I've mentioned this before, the Hulk movie should have been, the first one should have been, Eric Banner shows up at his Gamma facility, clocks in, he opens his door, he's flooded with Gamma radiation, then he's like, oh, I'm the Hulk! And then it's just two hours of him

just throwing tanks at helicopters. That would have been cool, but the budget would have been... I'm sure they're like, we can afford four Hulk scenes. You know what? They probably could. They probably could have done more.

Also, people don't like the look of the Hulk in that one. He's... I mean, it's 2003 CGI, but I don't think it's that bad. He's quite rubbery. He's rubbery, but you know, Ang Lee, for some reason, decided that he would do all the motion capture of the Hulk.

Brilliant. Did you know that Yes Which is strange Because I I don't think his physique And really matches that Of the Hulk

Ang Lee is green though Yeah Oh that's true But then again Not that Mark Ruffalo Ruffalo Ruffio Ruffio

Sure Not that his matches it But I just think That's a very strange choice to make It really is A bit self indulindulgent. I think when you compare the CGI of the first Hulk and Incredible Hulk and then Avengers Hulk, but again, it's the best they could have done.

That's true. But I don't like the look of the Incredible Hulk. I think that movie's okay. But I think he's weirdly ripped and he's a strange colour green. And he's no kind of... I know he's supposed to be kind of... He a strange color green and he's no kind of I know he's supposed to be kind of he looks he looks a bit grumpy doesn't he does look a

bit grumpy I didn't want to say it but yeah I just don't I don't think that I think they absolutely the Avengers like the way that it's the best Iron Man movie it's it's easily the

best Hulk movie of like two but yeah three Hulk Incredible Hulk Avengers oh okay fine yeah and there's the 80s one

with Bill Bixby God rest his soul we miss him don't we yeah we do but yeah I was going to

say something else I can't remember yeah but I think they're still struggling with what to do with the Hulk next though

because they're not committing to a phase 2 movie there's no Hulk phase 2 movie coming out. I don't think he can carry a film. I think Mark Ruffalo is great in everything.

I agree. Even that movie where Reese Witherspoon is a ghost. Is that one of his? Ghost Spoon? Yeah, Ghost Spoon. Sure. Yeah, that is his movie. I've seen that movie.

Great. That's a bad movie. Okay, I forget I said anything. Edit point. No, leave it in. No, but he's good. Yeah. He's good.

Suddenly 30. He's good in that movie. You remember when forget I said anything. Edit point. No, leave it in. No, but he's good. Yeah. He's good. Suddenly 30. Yep. He's good in that movie. Great. You remember when Jennifer Garner was Suddenly 30? Yeah, I remember that.

Because the name of the movie relates to what happens directly in it. I don't know if you made that connection. Magic. Yeah. Yeah, good.

But, um, so, people have been talking Planet Hulk. I don't think you could do that. I think if you just, like, send CGI Hulk to space and the

whole thing's CGI aliens and in space and everything CGI and there's no people in it people are going to not like that because they want to see people yeah

not that they want to see people I think it humanises the character more if he if there are people around him and he himself turns into a person yes

because I believe in Planet Hulk he's the Hulk the whole time right yes he is and also I think that given that Marvel have Guardians of the Galaxy on the slate I don't know if people are ready

for two superhero movies set in space. I'm ready. Yeah. I'm not that ready. No. I'm ready-ish. Let's panic. It's right in the streets.

Let's break some things. But you know what? You know what else The Avengers now about the Hulk? And I'm sorry to bang on about The Avengers. You're such a Marvel fanboy. I'm such a Marvel fanboy. This is a Marvel-centric podcast, guys. It's what we love.

We love Marvel. But, um, they made the best use of him because it wasn't him running from the army. It wasn't him like, I'm misunderstood. It was like, here's a bunch of things that are happening that is affecting us directly. Point him in a direction. Go. Yeah. And then just smash everything.

That's how you've got to use him. Use him like a weapon where you point him at something. You don't have him run from the army, then he smashes up a tank, and then his girlfriend comes up and goes, stop! Then he gets sad and changed back,

and then they cuff him. Yeah. Like, that's crap. It is. And we've seen that too many times. Maybe twice, but that's twice too many, quite frankly.

Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, do you think Ruffalo Ruffio, sorry, is better than... Mario Ruffio. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. Do you think he's... Are you glad that they switched him out? Yes. Yeah. Me too. Initially, I was going to say, do you think Ruffalo Rufio, sorry, is better than... Mario Rufio. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Do you think he's... Are you glad that they switched him out? Yes. Yeah. Me too. Initially, I was like, that's not a good idea.

But in the end... I hope he grows his hair back for Avengers 2. Yeah. He looks really weird at the end of Iron Man. He really does. Didn't he? Yeah. Don't like it.

Yeah. I mean, I thought... I'm sure they just got him in there like, are you free for 10 minutes? Yeah, yeah. And he was like, what are you wearing? He's like, this. And they're like, fuck it. Let's go.

So I think that's how it happened. But yeah. I he was like, what are you wearing? He's like, this. And they're like, fuck it, let's go. So I think that's how it happened. But yeah. I think that's pretty much it. We got anything else? No. Oh, final thought. Yep.

Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance. Never seen it. He pisses fire. Yeah. Have you seen it? Yeah, I've seen it. I haven't seen that one. I've got to see it. Is that good?

No. I've heard it's not good. It's better than the last one. The CGI is better. Yeah. Yeah, so that's pretty much it. So next time, I thought, and I haven't actually asked you this, I'll ask you now,

I thought maybe, because there's been a big push lately, not that there's always been a big push, but more so lately, of adapting comic books into TV shows. Yes. I don't know if you heard, well, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has started.

Have you seen that yet? I haven't seen it yet, but I will get to it ASAP. I watched it. It's not bad. It's okay. Well, we'll talk about that later, but another point. But yeah, I wanted to discuss the idea of adapting comic books into TV shows as opposed

to movies, and what are the benefits of that? I have many thoughts on that. How many? All the thoughts. Okay, good. Well, that's good. Should I tell them all to you now? Yeah.

I should maybe wait a week. My voice is kind of... I need a drink. Okay, you should get a drink. But yeah. Also, they just announced... I don't know if you've heard this because you hate DC

so you might not know this. I probably don't know it then, yeah. But they're going to make a Commissioner Gordon TV series set for Batman. Oh, who's going to be Commissioner Gordon? They haven't finalised anything yet?

I think they're getting... Who played Commissioner Gordon in 1989 Batman? No, they're not. They're not getting him. Pat Cadigan. They're not getting him. No, they're not. They're not getting him. Pat Cadigan. They're not getting him. No, they're not. People are saying Bryan Cranston, but

firstly, I don't think Bryan Cranston would do it for a TV show. Secondly, for a prequel Batman universe, he's too old. Yes. And I love Bryan Cranston. I hope that they go the Smallville route and they never say his name for 10 years. Commissioner Gordon's dead. yes and I love Bryan Cranston I hope that they go the Smallville route oh god and they never

say his name for 10 years Commissioner Gordon yeah Commissioner Gordon they don't yeah and he doesn't grow the moustache

for 10 years get on the com James Gordon yeah exactly yeah yeah because like the com link com link

yes the clicking thing that cops talk to each other on handgun tear gas tear gas yeah yeah so that's so I thought maybe we could talk about that I'd love to cool alright thing that cops talk to each other on? Handgun. Tear gas? Tear gas, yeah.

Yeah. So that's, so I thought maybe we could talk about that next time. I'd love to. Cool. All right. Okay, so that's pretty much it. Do you want to plug your Twitter handle so people can abuse you on Twitter? Nah.

You sure? Oh, okay, fine. It's at Wikipedia Brown. Yeah. That's a very clever reference. Sure. Yeah. You know, I didn't get that when you first told me because we don't get the Encyclopedia

Browns in Australia, do we? And by that I mean I don't read books. Yeah, that's pretty much the reason, sure. Well, yeah. Okay, mine is at MrSundayMovies. You can also check out my YouTube channel, youtube.com slash MrSundayToSunday. It's really, it's not a great name, and I regret picking it, but I can't really change it at this point.

So that's life, isn't it? I guess so, yeah. Yeah. Just wait till you die. And then, you know. Drift into an endless pit of nothingness. I guess that's the key, isn't it? Yeah, just have fun with it, you know?

Yeah. All right, thanks, guys. See you next week.