The Weekly Planet - Batman Forever - Caravan Of Garbage

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

Tim Burtons Batman Returns ended up being not the creative direction (box office return) that Warner Brothers wanted. So in response to that we got a pretty significant tone shift for the next entry, Batman Forever directed by Joel Schumacher and now starring Val Kilmer as Bruce Wayne. And it worked! Financially. Thanks for checking out our Caravan Of Garbage reviewSUBSCRIBE HERE ►► http://goo.gl/pQ39jNHelp support the show and get early episodes ► https://bigsandwich.co/Patreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesJames' Twitter ► http://twitter.com/mrsundaymoviesMaso's Twitter ► http://twitter.com/wikipediabrownPatreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesT-Shirts/Merch ► https://www.teepublic.com/stores/mr-sunday-movies The Weekly Planet iTunes ► https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-weekly-planet/id718158767?mt=2&ign-mpt=uo%3D4 The Weekly Planet Direct Download ► https://play.acast.com/s/theweeklyplanetAmazon Affiliate Link ► https://amzn.to/2nc12P4 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care.

From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca.

Can you be a little bit closer, actually? Yes! There we go. Nice. This is a direct quote from one Tim Burton, a man who did not direct this movie, but he directed the previous two Batman movies. Yeah,

but this is a quote about this movie, which he didn't direct. My goodness. He said, please leave a like on this YouTube video. And then he said, I always hated those titles like Batman forever. That sounds like a tattoo that somebody would get when they're on drugs or

something or something. Some kid would write in their yearbook to somebody else. I have high problems with some of those titles. So yeah you go what a grouch well he was going to call his version batman continues right and what's the difference between returns and forever come on man what are you doing i don't disagree it seems like a very personal grudge i think i don't know i don't know what the deal is between burton and schumacher but no no they actually had a meeting uh and schumacher was like, do you mind if I do this?

And Burton's like, yeah, I don't give a shit. Okay. But I have one proviso, don't call it forever. Son of a bitch, Schumacher. But Batman Continues is nothing. It's like Batman, here he is. Like it's, do you know? There's no like, where's the impact?

That's true, but also like, what does Batman Forever mean? Well, I think this movie should be called Batman and Robin and the next one should be called Batman Forever. But do you only think that because Batman Forever, because Batman and Robin, the last one, is the last one in this sort of generation of Batman films? No, because this one is the introduction of Robin.

Yeah. So that makes sense to me. That's true. Yeah. Anyways, Mason. What insights we're bringing to the table for this one. This is incredible. Anyways, Mason, Warner Brothers and McDonald's finally got their

kid version of Batman that they were after. Now, we did talk about this before we started recording, but it's not without its adult elements, including, it's a little bit horny, isn't it? It's pretty horny, I think. You were saying that you think the next one is hornier. I remember the next one having more butt shots, but that doesn't speak to the overall horniness. That's true. I think. You were saying that you think the next one is hornier. I remember the next one having more butt shots,

but that doesn't speak to the overall horniness. That's true. I think that horniness is specific to people who love butt shots. That's fair. But I think as a general audience appeal for horniness, I think this maybe takes the cake, as it were. Beefcake, if you wouldn't mind. Batcake.

Bat beefcake. Bat beefcake, that's right. I will say this, though. It is definitely more of a Batman movie than the previous movie. And there's some really fun and great specifically Batman moments. I mean, even that opening sequence and Batman is trapped in a safe and it's being dragged by a helicopter and it's filling with acid and the most annoying man in the world is in there with him.

The last guy you want in that safe, you know? Just the last man you want screaming in your ear. I think second last, the one guy you wouldn't want in the safe with you is a guy from later in the movie when Batman swings down from the sky and a guy in the crowd goes, wow, that's Batman, yeah! Settle down, mate. You live in Gotham, come on. But yeah, that opening sequence, you know,

that is straight out of a Batman comic of a certain era, and it is straight out of the 1960s Batman TV series, if they had any money, which they didn't, I guess. Yeah, well, I mean, they did for the time. I mean, there's great other moments where, like, he's got a little slide under his desk. Sure. Down to a Batcave, because he has multiple, I guess.

That sequence where he goes into his office, Wayne Enterprises' office, and he says lock, and the door's locked, and then he sits in his chair and he says chair. What happens if he says those words in a different context, like maybe during a business meeting? Sure. What happens then?

Well, he doesn't. That's what I think happens. He just doesn't, Mason. I'm just saying there's a lot of sexual harassment lawsuits in the cards. If he's like, I think maybe on the warehouses't, Mason. I'm just saying there's a lot of sexual harassment lawsuits in the cards. If he's like, I think maybe on the warehouses we should add a different lock. Mr. Wayne, let me out of here. Yeah, you might be right.

There's the moment when he leaps through a fire. That's great. Love that. What does he do before that? He activates something on his belt maybe? Is it a fight? Is it just general fireproofing? Yeah, it's the cape and it kind of shrink wraps around him and protects him.

It's the shrink wrap button. Okay, right, right. Some kind of vacuum situation. Okay, so he's upgraded from fruit roll-up to shrink wrap suit. Yeah, I love that. This one's inedible, I'm pretty confident. Oh, just quickly, one more thing. Like you mentioned, he drops down through the ceiling onto a fountain and then flips

off it. Incredible. Amazing. How did Val Kilmer do it? I don't know. I loved that bit, though. Probably practice and dedication. Yeah. This is definitely a more athletic Batman. Even though he can't breathe through his nose.

You notice that? His mouth's always like... There's some real wet make-out noises as well. Anyway, the question I was going to ask you, James, is you saw this at the cinema? No. You saw it on VHS? I did. Did you like it as a kid?

Yeah. Interesting. I don't think it's great. And I think despite having like a big visual style, and it's a bit horny, it doesn't kind of have the personality of the previous two. Because I think that when this came out, I did see it at the cinemas, and I think I wanted to like it, but I didn't like it. But now I still don't really like it, but I think it has a lot of charm to it. I agree. I think that it became this, the first two were kind of this faux grim gothic.

The previous two were more or less on a similar level of campiness. Sure. But they're just greyer. And I think that when this was sort of brought into the 1960s Technicolor era, I'm like, well, this isn't for me. Everything looks like an action figure, and I'm recently off action figures. So I don't like it. But in a rewatch i think the bat you were weaned off action figures that's right i barely had any action figures on me in the cinema but now that i'm an adult man

who just has action figures again somehow on your belt yes exactly i thought this you know visually astounding and i loved it the you know i was against the this batmobile at the time but now great design yeah weird neon undercurrent to the whole thing, loved it. I think it does probably, we'll talk about it next week, go too far the next time around. But yeah, I don't disagree. I was also like, oh wow, Gotham City has a Statue of Liberty. I looked into it.

So Batman originally... It had a Statue of Liberty. It had, yeah, that's right. Now it has a headless Statue of Liberty, and they're never going to fix that. Didn't they just scar it on one side like a big two-face? They made it a big two-face? But the original

Batman comics were of course set in New York City and it's either a homage to that or just a thing they put in it. It's probably just a thing. It's probably just a thing, isn't it?

But I was going to say the new Batmobile, it sort of even works in continuity because it's way narrower than the original version so it sort of makes sense if they repaired

the one from Returns, maybe it would look like that kind of thing. And there's a sort of continuity in that the suit he's wearing looks mostly like the original suit, but until it gets the super horny upgrade. Oh, love a bit of that. I'd love to talk about it. But can we first talk about Val Kilmer?

Yes. Now, I think there's a lot in this movie of hinting at like a deeper darker more kind of three-dimensional batman yeah which is in an extended cut which we'll talk about in a bit and i think val kilmer definitely adds to that but i kind of wish they let him do more because i like him as bruce wayne especially i think like aesthetically love that love everything he's doing val kilmer's got that charisma. He's got it. Yep. But he's just, they're just like.

He cuts a fine figure. Oh, he cuts a fine figure, all right. But God. Could have darkened his hair a bit, but whatever, it's fine. No, Christian Bauer's like. It's that kind of like, oh, come on. But yeah, he's just, I don't know, man. It's just not quite right. Well, I think he's talked about how, look, even though he enjoyed it

and maybe there was some clashing on set, which I'll get to in a minute, but he felt like Batman is this kind of empty shell because when kids would come to visit and they'd see Batman but that wasn't really exciting to them and was more like, I'm going to put on the cowl, I'm going to get in the car. Like, kids like

that element of it. They don't care who Batman is. And I don't think that's strictly true because I care who Batman is and it's me, Mason. I'm Batman. Wow! No, but I think that's also a result of him not having as much interesting stuff

to kind of do in this movie. He also has an absolute panic attack when a vase gets knocked over at one point. That's true. So I enjoyed that. It's like it's unlocked a memory. It was actually a vase that came through the window that night. I should be Vars man or Vase man in America.

Or Vase man, yeah. Two Vase. Two Vase, my goodness. But I mean, I guess he gets a more fleshed out love story with Chase Meridian. And by fleshed out, I mean they have like three scenes together and he's like, I love you now. I've never felt like this about anyone before this woman i've i saw i saw

her on a roof and then i saw her in a corridor and i saw another roof and i'm like wow it's just the psychology thing though really just like wow a woman who sort of understands my brain a little bit i think this is great for me yeah and it And it's Nicole Kidman, and that's cool. Yeah. I like a bit of that, he said. Now, Val Kilmer, as I mentioned, there's a bit of drama. The drama not being that he got $6 million for this. Well done.

Kudos, by the way. But Val Kilmer and Joel Schumacher, they clashed during filming, and Schumacher described Kilmer as childish and impossible, and at one point Kilmer apparently- Smarten up and grow up. Grow up and put your codpiece on, Val. We're doing serious business here. Grow up and get in the car

and then we're going to have it shoot a grappling hook up and it can drive up a wall. Grow up, Val Kilmer. According to Schumacher... Grow up and get in the little boat, the little glowing boat and have a little drive around in it According to Schumacher Kilmer apparently refused to talk to him

For two weeks at one point And he also said Val did me two great favours When I wanted him to play Batman He said yes Then he created a situation Which allowed me to not have him play Batman again So they were both happy instances

Which I will always be grateful. Also, apparently at the time, Val Kilmer was going through a divorce. So, you know, that could have been. But if you watch interviews of Val Kilmer, like about this, he's like, yeah, it was fun. It was a bit of fun. I liked it. People said I hated Jim Carrey, but I did not thought he was cool. It was Tommy Lee Jones that hated Jim Carrey.

Oh, Mason. Before we get to that, Val Kil Malcolm actually said that the hardest days on set were more when he was playing Bruce Wayne as opposed to being in the Batman costume. And apparently that was because of, like, the psychologically depressive weight of the character. And he was often heard just saying to himself, oh, I'm feeling blue, oh, I'm feeling down.

And that actually led to the working title of this. Here it is. Of this movie being Blue Harvest. He's so proud of himself, folks. This is the highlight of his week, I bet. Which is, of course, the original title for the working title for Star Wars 1977. He's done it, everybody. Let's just leave him in this for a moment

to think about what he's done. Can we cut? Can we cut for a minute? Yeah, sure. Anyways, you want to talk about Tommy Lee Jones? Yes, we do. I was going to say maybe Val Kilmer and Schumacher just met and just didn't get along.

Yeah, that happens. Sometimes you're like, this guy sucks. That's right. And then you end up doing a podcast with him for 10 years. It's true. So Tommy Lee Jones, first of all, what are you doing? What is this? I'll tell you what it is.

What I think it is. He thinks he's Jack Nicholson's Joker. I think they both think they're Jack Nicholson's Joker. I think both Jim Carrey, well, I think Schumacher wanted a Joker. He wanted a manic Joker character. And Burton was like, no, I killed him though. For real, I 100% killed him. And also you can't afford Jack Nicholson.

And this isn't the era when we recast anybody except Batman. We obviously recast him. So you obviously would make no sense for you to recast the Joker. And Two-Face because Harvey Dent was in the first movie. We recast him also, but we can't do any recasting or we can't bring back the Joker. so you're going to have to make do. And he's just like, well, I'll just have two Jokers. Whatever, they're probably all the same. Was Chewbacca a Batman comic fan?

Yes, he was. Right, interesting. But from a very specific era, which you can tell. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think he just, somebody along the line, maybe in the script writing, maybe on set, was just like, doesn't matter. Yeah.

The Batman villains, they're just cackling lunatics. And I think it totally works for Jim Carrey. I hate it. Really? Yeah. See, I like it because it's very annoying. And I love it when he's just shuffling crotch first through the Batcave, you know? Just having the time of his life.

See, I think- He looks like James Corden at an intersection, Mason. Just crotch first. Oh, my God. Just going for it. I think it's probably because that was never the characterisation of the Riddler that I enjoyed. You don't think it's like the Frank Gorsham kind of vibe? Yeah, I guess...

Just like 30 years later? Yeah, you're probably right, but I think it's probably even too manic. Maybe I just like the idea of the Riddler as being a more low-key kind of guy. Maybe doing some riddles instead of a big TV draining machine. Exactly. Maybe that's it, James. Maybe that's it.

Maybe that has nothing to do with the character of the Riddler and they just added a couple of riddles at the end. Is he wearing different wigs? Like I know he is as somebody watching the movie. He's got long hair, he's got red hair, he's got Bruce Wayne's hair, he's got shorter hair and whatever. Within the movie, is he switching wigs

or is that a very elaborate kind of hair-dyeing process that he's going through? He must be switching wigs, right? I hope so. Also, the thing that I found odd is that he decides to adopt his super villainous persona from something that already exists in this universe but is never explained. Just a guy in a...

There's some character that's just in a little green suit with a little green bowler hat. Who's that guy? Great question. And the people in this universe, the newscasters are like, this man's been leaving puzzles all over the place. We're calling him the Riddler. You'd call him the Puzzler. But also...

Isn't there a Puzzler? Probably, yeah. Yeah, I think there's a Puzzler. And a Clue Master and a bunch of others. But surely they'd look at this guy and go, oh, it's Green Question Mark guy from the cereal boxes or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Mr. Lucky Charms or whatever.

Exactly. Yep, I don't disagree. Stupid. Yeah. Well, you're not the only one who thinks it's stupid. Tommy Lee Jones famously has this quote, and let's play it, concerning Jim Carrey. So, yeah, they met and just Tommy Lee Jones is like,

I'm just not with you and I won't. Yeah, yeah. And stop it. Not on set and not in private. Yeah. And not at a restaurant. Yeah. But look, Tommy Lee Jones is also going too big.

But I think, if I had to guess... has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. And I'm not saying any behind the scenes. I imagine he goes big, and then the moment it's cut, he's off.

Sure, yeah. He's just sitting in his chair and he's smoking a cigarette. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, whatever, yeah, how's the baseball game going, whatever. Like, he doesn't care. How's the baseball game going? That's what he says. That's a great question, too.

I think so, yeah. Yeah. But no, he did obviously do it for a paycheck, and apparently his son was like, that's my favourite character, which is not true. Two-Face is nobody's favourite character as a kid. I mean, as an adult man, I'll accept that. But no child's like, I love the character of Two-Face.

That's my favourite character. I love the duality, they would say. Some kids, though, they might like Robin. And what I love about this Robin is that he has sideburns because he's 25. And it's just a man adopting another man that's right and that's fun i'm gonna get out of here because otherwise social services will track me down why because you're you're breaking into orphanages as a grown man maybe that's it yeah do you like his kung fu laundry i loved it you Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. You know? Yes. Yeah.

What I do like as well, the first time he fights some thug. What I'd like also. Some thugs? Some thugs. Some real thuglies? Some real thugos, mate. Yeah. What I do like, though, mate, is the first time he fights some thugs.

He does really well. And then when Batman comes in, it's just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on. Yeah. What's this? Karate chop to the throat, mate. Exactly.

Bring him down. And later he goes, yeah, I was thinking about my parents being murdered when I was fighting you. That wasn't a fight. Come on. What are you talking about? It's a big sook, we'd call it in Australia. We would. A big time tantee.

Big time tantee, yeah. How did you enjoy the holy rusted metal Batman? And Batman goes, huh? He goes, you know, because it's metal and it's full of holes. And Batman goes, oh. Yeah, I liked that too. Did you? No, I didn't like it.

I didn't like that. I didn't like the fact that he's like, what's my superhero name? Could it be Nightwing? Yeah, man, later. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, Dick Grayson learned about Nightwing from Superman because Nightwing's a Kryptonian

legend or whatever. Kryptonian legend. I agree. You've not met Superman, this version of Dick Grayson. Metropolis mentioned in this, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah, they go, wow, Metropolis. Everyone cheered.

Another thing that I loved was when Two-Face busts in on some sort of fancy schmancy event. He's like, ladies and gentlemen, put all your valuables in the bag. Money, jewellery, cellular all your valuables in the bag. Money, jewelry, cellular telephones. Oh, yeah. That's a $5,000 piece of equipment, Mason, from 1995.

Uh-huh. You better believe it. Put your Nokia 6110 in the bag. What do you think of the new suits, though? I mean, we've got the new Robin suit. Mm-hmm, yep. And we've also got, he's got his classic Robin costume,

sort of, from the Flying Graysons. Mm-hmm. And then you've got, well, he's got his classic Robin costume, sort of, from the Flying Graysons. And then you've got, like, the sonar situation. I like the sonar suit. I just, I don't know. I feel like it needs to be broken up more, because it's just kind of one vibe. Right, right, right. Like, there's no, like, there's no kind of even standout belt or boots to kind of break it up. All right, all right. But no, I don't mind the actual look of it.

Apparently it weighed 100 pounds, and you can't hear in it. That's the reverse of a bat. I agree. Light and the other thing that I said. The other thing. And Val Kilmer said, whatever boyish excitement I had going on was crushed by the reality of the bat suit.

We hear that a lot, don't we? Yeah, I mean, it's sort of interesting that they have yet to go back to the cloth bat suit. Yeah. There's ways to do it and not make to go back to the cloth Batsuit. Yeah. There's ways to do it and not make it look ridiculous. Do it like a Kevlar. Like a light Kevlar. If John Wick can wear a bulletproof suit.

Yes, uh-huh. And can just hold it up and just stop a rocket launcher or whatever. Then Batman can wear a bulletproof just Batman t-shirt he got at Kmart. Exactly. It's got the Batman logo and a picture of Batman on it. That's right. Do you like the bit when the...

So do you remember the bit... I was going to say though, I do like the Robin suit. Yeah? I think it's good. The only downside is that it's on a full grown man who's exactly the same height as Batman.

You want to see a boy? No. Also no. No, this is probably the correct choice. Okay. Considering the... Yeah probably the correct choice. Okay. Considering the cod pieces and so forth. Absolutely. I love it when Dick Grayson is driving the Batmobile down the street

and at one point the fin is- And just wobbling in the air. It's split in two and it's just like blah, blah, blah. I don't know. Is that a mistake? I don't know. Was there something else supposed to happen then that they cut out? Not sure.

How did he get past Alfred to get to to the car he punched him wow just knocked him out easy you do see a moment where alfred or a stuntman gets knocked out by two-face when he comes into uh the house or whatever i'm like good fault michael goff i assume it probably wasn't yeah i enjoy that supporting cast he's back of of course. Pat Hingle is back as Commissioner Gordon. Drew Barrymore is back. I'd forgotten she was in this. There you go. Yeah, and of course, Ed Begley Jr.

As the guy that works at Wayne Tech. That's fun, isn't it? Stop that. Yeah, don't. You know what else I don't like about the Riddler? He knows too many things. He's got too many areas of expertise. Well, he's sucking everyone's knowledge out. Which, by the way, I think would be too much. Yeah, right? You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He can know too many things. He's got too many areas of expertise. Well, he's sucking everyone's knowledge out,

which, by the way, I think would be too much. Yeah, right? You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He can know too many things. I've found that, so I've just stopped. Oh, yeah? How many things do you know now?

12, maybe? I know less. I win. Checkmate. Well, now I know that, so now I know even more. You knowing more than me. That's right. God damn it, yeah.

I do like the ending, though, where Riddler makes Batman make the ultimate choice. Save Nicole Kidman, save Chris O'Donnell, or just save both of them. Right, sure. And I think he chose correctly. In saving both of them, sure. You never know when a lunatic's going to show up

and make you make the ultimate choice. Save two people or one person. That's right. That's great. And I also liked how both the villains made the ultimate choice of learning Batman's secret identity, so by the end you know both of them either have to die or lose their memory that's right fun right and we get a bit of both what's interesting about this is as well that batman's like listen if you kill listen if you kill two if you kill two face you

can't do it with hate in your heart so batman just does it yeah just throws a handful of coins at him well he says he says you shouldn't kill him because you'll have hate in your heart. So Batman just does it. Just throws a handful of coins at him. Well, he says you shouldn't kill him because you'll have hate in your heart forever or what have you. But then they team up and he's like, you know, I might kill Two-Face. And Batman's like, a man's got to do what a man's got to do, honestly. It's fine. It's fine. I've killed so many people by accident on purpose with that flame that comes out of

the back of the Batmobile. Yeah, you should have said that. That was actually fucking wild that I did that. I really should be in jail, but was actually fucking wild that I did that. I really should be in jail, but I'm rich, so I'm not. Listen, I feel like it's not very in character for Batman to kill Two-Face by throwing a bunch of coins at him. He should have crash-tackled him off a roof like he did in The Dark Knight and killed him that way.

That's the real Batman, you know? Well, I mean, a thought I did have there, if he didn't intend to kill him, what did he think was going to happen there, just throwing all the coins in the air? Do you think Two-Face was just going to be like, huh, a lot of coins, makes you think. Well, I guess I've given up my life for crime.

And the second thing I wondered while watching this movie is that Dr. Chase Meridian invites Batman over for sexy, horny, romantic times. Very sexy. Very sexy. And then when he comes over, she's like, actually, I'm in love with someone else. It's Bruce Wayne.

You should go. What if she didn't have that thought? What were they going to do? Great question. Was he going to reverse fruit roll up the suit? Just rip off everything below the neck and leave the mask on? Yeah. Because surely she would figure it out eventually.

I'd imagine she would, yeah. Maybe he would have thrown a handful of coins at her and fled. Can only hope. The soundtrack, of course, is famous for a number of songs. It's U2's Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me. Sure, sure, sure. Which was the first single that they released. An obvious mistake.

Not in their lives. No. Not in their tenure as a band. No, of course not. They had the song Elevation, which came after this. An obvious mistake. Not in their lives. No. Not in their tenure as a band. No, of course not. They had the song Elevation, which came after this. That's right. But this was a prequel to that song. But of course, the first song they should have released

was the song that everybody knows, which is Seal's Kiss from Arose. Which, by the way, that's a pretty cool song, man. It's pretty cool. Don't you think? I agree. It's a good song. Yeah.

Do you want to do some green trivia? Yes. But not before the guy who shouts Rodney agree. It's a good song. Yeah. Do you want to do some green trivia? Yes. But not before the guy who shouts Rodney Mason. That's a classic. I agree. So Jim Carrey's original idea was to shave a question mark into his scalp, but that had to be scratched because he was in court also filing his divorce, apparently. And so he shaved it into his pubic hair.

Nice. Robin Williams was offered the role by Warner Brothers of The Riddler but refused due to being bitter about being used as bait to lure Jack Nicholson to commit to play the Joker. Oh, yes. Michael Jackson apparently lobbied hard for the role as The Riddler but was ignored. That seems to happen a lot.

I want to be Spider-Man. Obviously not Michael Jackson. What are you talking about? Go back to hell where he is. I'm going to cut that out. That can't go in the video. Yeah, you'll attract the stans. They'll get you.

They'll pile on. Yeah. Sam Raimi was apparently the first choice as director, but I feel like- Oh, not as Batman. No. Okay. He could make a great Batman, but Bruce Campbell would.

Yes, agreed. Even now. Make him Batman. Oh, yep. How good would that be returns batman yes please how about this beyond batman batman versus predator and it's bruce campbell love it that's great right i agree with me so sam ramey was the studio's first choice as director but i feel like that wouldn't have made a good project for sam ramey or the studio i don't think either of them

would have kind of met in the middle for whatever he would have made. Yeah, right. In terms of Dick Grayson slash Robin, Leonardo DiCaprio turned it down because he didn't like the direction it was heading. Mark Wahlberg was considered, as was Matt Damon, Jude Law, Ewan McGregor, Corey Haim,

Corey Feldman, Toby Stevens and Scott Speedman. Whoa! From Underworld? That's right. And Grey's Anatomy? What's he in? What's he in before Underworld? God, jeez. I'll look it up.

Party of Five? Maybe. Or the other one? Party of Six. Yeah. With Scott Speedman. It's exactly the same show, but Scott Speedman's in it. He was in one of those.

Felicity. He was in Felicity. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. He's also in Animal Kingdom. Wow. The American one, I assume. the TV series yeah cool uh and as for Batman some of the names that were considered included William Baldwin who got very close apparently Daniel Day Lewis that would no he just wouldn't you just couldn't get him to do that I don't think there's

no amount of money that Daniel oh Daniel Day-Lewis versus the Predator think about that see I think he's like a Gosling I think he's like like a Ryan Gosling not the small baby goose he's

but he could be he could live as one for a year and then do the job but I think if you were like this is an acting challenge you've got to make this work yeah

I think you could convince him to do it I think you could but it'd have to be in a movie that's not this oh yeah and also he's retired he's a cobbler but it'd have to be in a movie that's not this. Oh, yeah. And also he's retired.

He's a cobbler or whatever. I don't know what he does. That's right, yeah. Kurt Russell, Alec Baldwin. Well, you can ask him to make a big giant shoe that appears on the roof of a Gotham skyscraper. He would 100% do that. Yeah. Ethan Hawke, Ralph Fiennes, Tom Hanks, Johnny Depp, Keanu Reeves,

who of course did end up playing Batman, animated. There was also a rumor that Christian Bale auditioned for Robin, but apparently that's not true. He did, however, and there's footage of this, he auditioned for Batman Begins in the Batman Forever cowl. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And of course, Val Kilmer wore the bat cowl again in an episode of Life's Too Short with Warwick Davis.

Huh. Now, the box office for this. Oh, yes. You might be like, did it do better than Batman Returns? Did it? Yes. Whoa. Cost $100 million and it is the highest grossing film of 1995

in the US box office at $336 million worldwide. Apparently people were smashing posters out of bus stops and just tearing through all the McDonald's happy meal glass mugs you could get. Oh my god! That's right. You've just unlocked a formative memory of my childhood, James. You are welcome. There's another thing that you know. Oh my, you son of a bitch.

But for people who didn't know, you bought yourself a meal at McDonald's and for probably an extra buck or something they would bring you out a hand-carved crystal mug with the proverbial mug of Batman, Robin, Riddler, and probably Dr. Chase Meridian for the girls. For the girls, yeah.

That one was pink. Yeah, absolutely it was. But so just to quickly talk about the original version of this, Joel Schumacher, as mentioned, he was a Batman fan, but he wanted to actually make this a prequel based on Frank Miller's year one. Oh, well then he succeeded, didn't he? But I think though you can see

elements of that in this. Okay. Because there is an extended cut of this that people do want to see that has a much more darker tone and you get hints of that. It's more focused also around Thomas Wayne's diary and Bruce Wayne's guilt. There's a moment where he goes further into the Batcave and he confronts a giant bat. A man Wayne's guilt. There's a moment where he goes further into the bat cave and he confronts a giant bat.

That does happen. A man-sized bat. It's not man bat. It's just a man-sized bat hallucination. But at the end of the day, Warner Brothers were like, how about do none of that? And he went, all right. Do the thing we want you to do.

And he's like, yeah, okay, I can do that. And look, I think this is the perfect middle ground between Returns and what comes next. I think tonally for this era and for getting the right kind of audience in that Warner Brothers want, this is exactly where it needs to be, even if it's not great. For sure. Yeah.

Anyways, next week we will be back to talk about Batman and Robin Mason. And people, I know they want to see that early. And of course you would. And you can. If you head over to BigSandwich.co, where in addition to early videos, there's bonus podcasts. There's a bunch of exclusive stuff behind there, ad-free, including movie commentaries, including other things. Isn't that right, Mason? That's right.

And you can sign up early. and when the video comes out, you can be like, it's Batman and Robin, yeah! Yeah! I'm pointing! You can point right at it, early! Also, of course, our podcast, The Weekly Planet, where we talk movies and comics and TV shows, that actually comes out there Sunday as opposed to Monday,

if you are interested. Would you like to see Val Kilmer return as Batman in some description? I know health-wise he's not doing great. Then I'd like him to enjoy his retirement, James. How dare you? You don't want to cram him back in the suit? Yeah, let's cram him back in the suit.

Let's parade him in front of a Comic-Con audience. You can answer stupid questions for an hour. Yeah, sounds great, James. Okay, cool. No, I don't want that. Oh, I thought you were being legit and real for a second. No, I wasn't. I'll never be legit or real.

Wow, that's great. All right, thanks, everybody. Grabbed our jam, you guys. We'll see you next week. Goodbye. And thanks to Ben and Lawrence for the edits. Thank you, Ben and Lawrence. Bye.

As women, our life stages come with unique risk factors, like high blood pressure developed during pregnancy, which can put us two times more at risk of heart disease or stroke. Know your risks. Visit heartandstroke.ca. FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost.

FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+.