The Weekly Planet - Batman V Superman - Caravan Of Garbage

Episode Date: June 12, 2020

Next up on the Zack Snyder DC Comics trilogy is Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice the Ultimate Cut. Some consider it one of the greatest cinematic events in history other believe it to be a massive misstep. All opinions are valid but yours is the best we agree with you. This is our Caravan of Garbage review and thanks for watching. Next week...Justice League.Help support the show and decide on episodes at Patreon ► https:// patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesSUBSCRIBE HERE ►► http://goo.gl/pQ39jNVideo Edition ► https://youtu.be/5dMahDPP8pUJames' Twitter ► http://twitter.com/mrsundaymoviesMaso's Twitter ► http://twitter.com/wikipediabrownTWP Itunes ► https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-weekly-planet/id718158767?mt=2&ign-mpt=uo%3D4TWP Direct Download ► https://play.acast.com/s/theweeklyplanetTWP YouTube Channel ► https://goo.gl/1ZQFGHPatreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesAmazon Affiliate Link ► https://amzn.to/2nc12P4T-Shirts/Merch ► https://www.teepublic.com/stores/mr-sunday-movies#DCComics #BatmanVSuperman #Superman #Batman Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care.

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This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. We are back for Caravan of Garbage. We are doing the Zack Snyder Man of Steel trilogy in its entirety. That's right. And this week, it's Batman v Superman, Dawn of Justice, or as I like to call it, Batman v Superman, a question of piss. Now, a little disclaimer ahead of time.

For people who may be new to the channel, maybe we're getting some new viewers from this particular episode. It's a hot topic. Just to be clear, the series is called Caravan of Garbage. It's just a name we picked out a long time ago and we make fun of things that we like and we have good things to say about stuff we don't like.

That's right. And vice versa. I don't like this one though, just to be clear. Well, obviously, I want to talk about it and I want to sum up everything at the end for my particular opinions. But Mason, you've got us off to a crack and start. That's right.

And people are going to leave a like because of that, no doubt. I don't think it can be argued, though, that the opening to this movie, aside from the Batman's parents getting shot again, never looked better, by the way. It looks incredible. It looks amazing. Never looked slower, to tell you that much. You know what's funny, though?

I remember watching that in the cinema at the time and thinking, I never need to see this again, though. And then Joker, a couple of years later, it's like, here you go again. But it's so matter of fact in Joker, just like bang, the movie's finished or something. My pearls, ow. Yeah, that's right. But I think the idea of opening the movie with Bruce Wayne's perspective

of Metropolis during that battle, I think that's an incredible idea. I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great sequence of the action sequences. Honestly, it might be actually one of the best because it's not a, it's a Batman in Bruce Wayne mode. He can't tip his hand. He doesn't have his equipment with him. He's running into smoke and debris as everyone's running the other way.

He's never looked better Affleck, by the way. He looks incredible. But I mean, I do think that it is kind of a sad indictment of the way in financial corporate culture everybody decided they had to stay in the skyscraper while an alien invasion was happening they're like well we better wait until the boss gets on the ground and literally calls us before we're allowed to leave you know what I'm quitting that day absolutely I'm leaving you know there's a lesson in that I feel yeah but what I think it sets up really well,

which then for me doesn't necessarily pay off. The death of Jack. Is that his name? The guy who stays in the sky. Oh, that's the guy. Yeah, well, obviously, that's a big part of the movie. And, of course, I'll crush legs McGee, who comes back later. But the idea of the conflict between Batman and Superman,

I think it definitely gets wonky and falls apart later in the movie. But as an initial jumping off point for why batman would hate this guy yeah it makes perfect sense because he did bring that guy to metropolis and he did throw him through a lot of buildings he did knock down his satellite you know that probably cost a lot of money you know i do i agree so i think it's i think it's amazing i think it's such a great sequence and it's good that we're talking about this because ben who edits these videos, he's actually made a video on why he loves this sequence in this movie

that I'll link at the end of this. People should definitely check out. So, yeah, people love his videos and you'll love that one, trust me. More than you'll like this one, probably. That's right. Yeah. He's a font of positivity, that guy. Yuck, in my opinion.

Do you think also there's a lot of stuff in this movie that's a direct answer to the destruction in Man of Steel? Because it does show the consequences of Superman's actions. He's going to court for things that he may have done or people perceive that he's done, you know, things like that. And also, of course, in the final battle, not to jump ahead, but there's so many lines like, Oh my God, there's a monster loose,

but don't worry, it's in an area that's not populated. What time of day is it? Well, it's after work. Don't worry, everybody's already gone home from work. Even the poster workers? Yep, there's a monster loose, but don't worry, it's in an area that's not populated. What time of day is it? Well, it's after work. Don't worry, everybody's already gone home from work. Even the poster workers? Yep, it's daylight savings. I went, I have more relief. I went home too, yeah.

Yeah, no, I think it's, you're right. And I think it's, but I do feel it's kind of rushed. Yes. You know, there was, and sure it's been nearly two years, I think, in between Man of Steel and this movie. There's a moment in this where we hear a reporter say, is this the end of the love affair with the man in the sky?

And I'm like, what love affair? Do you just mean all the newspaper clippings we've been seeing in this? Yeah, you don't get a sense that people really like him, which ties into kind of the finale. I mean, there are sequences where people are like, we love this guy, he's Jesus or whatever. But yeah, I don't

really get that sense. And there was also the argument, I remember, for Man of Steel that the reason that he didn't handle the Metropolis thing super well is because it's his first day and he killed Zod and from that, that was his realisation that you shouldn't kill people. Yeah, this wasn't a gradual incline in the difficulty level for him. He didn't fight some bank robbers and No. And then some armored car thieves, and then Zod. It was just immediately some men fall out of the sky who can handily defeat him.

And nearly do, yeah. And nearly do, yeah. Yeah, but off the back of that, and the idea that, well, Superman, he had to kill Zod, and now he doesn't kill. But he does kill in this, because very early on, he slams a guy through, like, three walls. We're talking about the Ultimate Cut, by the way,

in case people are wondering with the 30 minutes of extra footage. A big subplot of this movie is, did Superman kill these people in the desert? Well, he killed one of them, but no, he didn't riddle the rest with bullets. That is true. Yeah, because a lot of the subplot is Lois holding up a bullet in like a plastic baggie and being like,

where'd this come from? What's this about? This Lexcorp bullet, who did this? Who do you think did it?orp bullet, who did this? Who do you think did it? Who do you think did it? It's interesting that the only detecting done in this movie, given that in the banner is the world's greatest detective. Yeah.

The only detecting being done is by Lois. It would be nice if this was a movie in which Superman and Batman, and therefore Lois and Batman, have a pre-existing friendship or relationship. Yeah. And they could maybe team up as they have done in the comic books. No, none of that. If only there was a man with, you know, billions of dollars and unlimited resources who could have used any of those

to maybe go over to the Middle East and detect. See what's going on. See what's going on, maybe figure some of that stuff out. I do like the idea that they lured Superman there through Lois Lane. Like it was all set up. Jimmy Olsen, obviously. I feel like the Jimmy Olsen death was Zack Snyder saying, I don't know what to do with this Argyle sweater wearing nerd.

First of all, no Argyle sweater. That's right. Maybe he had Argyle socks. I didn't see it. He may have. So I think that was very much like, I don't know what to do with this guy. Let's just shoot him.

I think he was just given a list of minor Superman, Batman characters and went, let's knock off a bunch of them. He's not in the theatrical cut either. Not mentioned, I should say, as well. As far as I'm concerned, he's still alive in this universe. He's still alive. Well, Jenny Olsen is as well. Yeah.

She lives. Maybe this CIA Jimmy Olsen knocked out the real Jimmy Olsen, stuffed him in a trunk somewhere, and at the end of this movie he gets out. I don't reckon he does get out. I reckon he's still in there. He's dead. Oh my gosh, no!

That's right. This universe keeps getting darker and darker. But the thing about that whole subplot, there's no mystery behind whether or not Superman did it because we saw that he didn't. So the mystery in itself feels kind of, why are we looking at this? Like, I mean, I know that people in the movie don't know

that Superman didn't shoot a bunch of people with a gun. Well, this is a Columbo style situation, except it's worldwide and people are getting flamethrowered. Sure. We know Columbo's

going to get you. Yeah, that's right, eventually. But again, I don't hate the idea that Superman would be framed for something because Lex Luthor does it all the time,

but you guys have flamethrowers. We've seen that. Do that and say it's laser vision or whatever because you don't really know how any of that works. He doesn use guns everybody knows that batman uses guns everybody knows that exactly right yeah do you want to talk about batman uh branding

where you up with that i'm not for it i think yeah does the extended version uh explain a little bit further i think that le Luthor's... Again, Lex Luthor's plan, of course, is to find all the people that have been branded in prison and have them killed by other inmates, so it looks more like Batman's sending them to his death. But even if he is doing that, Batman still knows that the people he's branding are getting murdered.

So he's doing it anyway. But this is a different universe, and this Batman has obviously been pushed so far that he's just killing people willy- a different universe and this batman has obviously been pushed so far that he's just killing people willy-nilly it happens a lot in this movie but then how do you pull back from that i mean you do well you can't and that i you can't especially in the smaller scale of of a batman universe of crime fighting in gotham yeah if you if batman gets to the point where he's killed as many people as one of his villains, he hasn't really. And I think one very easy tweak that could have been made to this movie

is have him often go to the brink of nearly killing someone, and then when we see the nightmare sequence in the future where he does kill people, that's when he knows he's gone too far, and that's a lesson to him to maybe pull back, and that could have informed him later in the movie when he gets the choice to kill a certain person and then chooses not to. He certainly doesn't.

This Batman, though, he's not your granddad's Batman, which may be Keaton at this point. How old is anybody watching these movies anymore? But I love that they've incorporated some elements from the Dark Knight Returns, like the drinking and whatnot, but it's also just like, but he drinks and he bangs women

and he does CrossFit. Like he just does it all. Like he doesn't seem to make a choice. He's not a hard white on anything. He's just like, yeah, I just do. I do all the cool things. Don't even worry about it. I drink heavily and I do CrossFit.

Sometimes I'll wrap a rope around a tire. I'll pull that tire. Don't think that I won't. You better believe it, yeah. How are you on the weird Zuckerberg, Max Landis, Lex Luthor situation? I hate him. I hate the weird little noises he makes. I hate his hair and I know

it's just, I know the hair is just there so later on when he is incarcerated finally they shave his head off and he looks like the Lex Luthor we all know and tolerate. I hate his weird speeches in public. I hate all his weird aphorisms that he just says and his, barely. I hate his weird speeches in public. I hate all his weird aphorisms that he just says and his weird little bits of wisdom.

I hate his plan. Yeah, his plan's ridiculous. Actually, you know what? I don't hate the entirety of his plan. But what I do hate is that he set up all these super secretive means to potentially imply that Superman is flying around the world murdering people and what have you, and it's all ordering a man's death

and sending out hit squads and all this sort of stuff. But also he goes to a senator to request a permit so he can import some kryptonite. Yes. Just smuggle it in, mate. You've already done those murders. I think you've crossed the line, actually. You're right, absolutely right.

It doesn't matter at this point. But I get the idea that he's unbalanced, but I think you've crossed the line, actually. You're right, absolutely right. It doesn't matter at this point. I mean, I get the idea that he's unbalanced, but I think you've mentioned this before. A man that unbalanced, how is he even running day to day? Whenever he gives a speech, it's like metaphors and allegories about gods and men and demons and Icarus, but what are you even saying? None of it makes any sense or comes together,

and I get that he's insane, but how does he even put his shoes on? You know what I mean? He's just like that level of nonsense. If you turn your shoes around, one of them says God on it, one of them says the devil on it, and he goes, okay, God's on the right and devil's on the left. Here we go. And then God goes through the hole, and God goes around the tree,

and then I've got my shoes on. Okay, well that makes sense then, I guess. And look, I don't think it's Jesse Eisenbergisenberg's fault no doubt that they were like do it this way and they develop that character together but this guy's not a threat to anybody really is he no i mean he is because of what happens in this movie sure but it just doesn't make sense to me it all boils down to a jar of piss i guess doesn't it sure does do you want to talk about that what's to say though there's What's to say, though? There's so much to say.

Look, I feel we could break down almost every scene in this movie, but there's so much to unpack in this scene. So if you can't remember, Luthor has a sort of rivalry with a senator played by Holly Hunter, and she attempts to sort of impart some folksy wisdom upon him

of like, I'm not going to believe your lies. And she does it with the phrase, you can take a bucket of piss and call it granny's peach tea, but I'm not buying that. But then later when she is present at a Senate hearing, so is Superman and so is Wheelchair McGee. Scoot McNary is there. And then she's asking questions of Scoot and of

Superman and then she looks to the side of her podium and she discovers a big jar of golden liquid that has been healthily labelled Granny's Peach Tea and the questions I've come to think about whenever I watch this scene which is all the time, I watch it all the time, it's the one scene that I keep

coming back to, first of all whose piss is it? Is it Luther's piss? He's not well hydrated if it is. That's true. Is it just like the LexCorp office piss? Did he do a whip around in the office? Was he like, hey, everybody, can you put some piss in this?

It's for charity. But is it piss? Or maybe it is peach tea. Because it might not be. Yeah. What are the chemical compounds of it? We don't know. A Superman should have walked in the room and go, there's a jar of piss in here.

That's another thing that I'm often wondering about. Like, you know, obviously Superman in this situation, there's a bomb in the room, and Superman doesn't know that, obviously, because it's in a Scoopman area's wheelchair, and it's been lead-lined so he can't see it. But surely he'd go in the room and go, there's 30 people in here,

but there's at least 35 35 ladders worth of piss. And if I know my folksy wisdom from back in Smallville, Kansas. That's true, he would. If there's too much piss, there is something amiss. And I don't know. Well, I mean, he would have gone for the piss and the bomb still would have gone off. It wouldn't have made a difference.

But he would have known something was up. Maybe it was Mercy Graves' piss. Yeah. She was in the room. But then Luther would be like, hey, Mercy, can you piss in this? It's made a difference. But he would have known something was up. Maybe it was Mercy Graves' piss. Yeah. She was in the room. But then Luther would be like, hey, Mercy, can you piss in this? It's for a prank. It's for a funny prank. Don't worry.

There'll be no murders involved. And just remember, I'm an Elon Musk-style billionaire, so you have to. So, you know, don't forget that. It's also strange because he must have inevitably known that all of these things were going to get him caught. Because it culminates in him using his own DNA to make a horrible monster. So that when they tested that, they'd be like, some Lex Luthor stuff in this, isn't there? But would they ever have gotten a chance to test it? If Superman hadn't ultimately defeated what we're going to call Doomsday.

Sure. Look, first of all, that's not Doomsday, is it? No. Well, they've also talked about how there might be another Doomsday. And what's he going to do, kill Superman again? Well, that's the problem, isn't it? Because you've already killed Superman. Right. It's diminishing returns.

That's Doomsday's defining characteristic. But first of all, he doesn't look like Doomsday. He looks like a weird toothy tadpole. Do you think designers of this, do you think that you are better at designing Doomsday than legendary DC writer-artist Dan Juergens? You're not. He's the best at this.

You couldn't give him some bony things on his face? He gets the protrusions as he gets damaged, etc. You can't blame it on designers because there is a vision of the creative team which craft this thing together. Toothy Tadpole. Toothy Tadpole, for example. But yeah, you're right.

He looks like a big, gummy, toothy, baby Tadpole man. And, you know, he's shooting lasers out of his whole face and he's jumping around. I don't think he can fly. I don't know how he got back from space. It's that same thing of, like, you took him into space and he fell directly back down from where he came from. Why are you firing nukes at him as well, Martian Manhunter?

What are you doing? He should be in the fight. Absolutely. What's he doing? He's waiting for his time in Manhunter. What are you doing? You should be in the fight. Absolutely. What's he doing? He's waiting for his time in the sequel. You might be, yeah. Look, and I think that is perhaps the larger problem with Batman v Superman as a whole.

For me, personally, is that, and it was to some degree true in Man of Steel as well, but this one really ups the ante. There are so many things in this movie that happen only because there is still runtime left in this movie that happen only because there is still runtime left in the movie and the movie needs to keep going sure again there are some good action sequences in this movie one of them that i enjoy quite a bit is the uh the car chase sequence where batman murders a lot of dudes that's great in the batmobile and then fx is the

veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH,

the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca.

And, you know, and it looks spectacular, and the stunts are spectacular, and the explosions are spectacular, and then he rounds a corner, and Superman is there. The Batmobile crashes into superman it loses its proverbial wheel and we we get to see that batman who at this point we think is this invulnerable crime fighting veteran against superman he's not all that much no but then

superman face to face with batman in a crashed batmobile could very easily flick him in the head and knock him out unmask him as Bruce Wayne, and then just fly him around to different police precincts until he finds someone who's willing to arrest him for, I don't know, any of the crimes he's known to do, like any of the murders you just saw him do. Like you just saw him. That's why you were chasing him, because of all the murders.

It's also strange that... But he doesn't, because there's an hour and a half left in the movie and they've got to get to the fight at the end. But maybe, though, I think that should have... There should have been an encounter there between them where Batman is trying different things against Superman and he loses that one, so he's more prepared second time round. Because he's never met this guy before.

Well, he used harsh words, didn't he? Yeah, but don't say shit like that to him, because, like you said, he can just flick you in the head and you'll explode and he might do it as well Well as far as you know he will do it

because you think he's a remorseless murderer If there's a 1% chance and then 99% there's an absolute certainty Yep that's what he said

direct quote Direct quote exactly So the Justice League are in this sort of as well aren't they in an email That's correct, yes. I actually think Wonder Woman's really great and well cast.

Like most of these movies, I think she's terrific. And we'll talk about her more in other things that we talk about. And probably this video. But that email, I mean, I don't want to get into it because it's being talked to death. But it's so strange. And every time I watch... We're here to talk things to death. That's what we're going to do.

But what struck me this time was when you see Cyborg's dad terminated to his own and he's like, I'm making this cyborg here. This is going not so well. Wait a minute. Everything's working and the boxes, the mother boxes like forming him. And then even though he's filming this, he turns off the camera. That's what the camera's for. You're filming this. This is

important scientific stuff. No, no. He likes to keep his main discoveries, his own little secret. Just for him. Just for him. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. But just such as he likes to keep his main discoveries, his own little secret, you know? Just for him. Just for him, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, fair enough. But just such as, he's got a failure fetish. No, he's selling it to people with a failure fetish. Oh, okay, right.

Yeah, they don't like success. Yeah, that makes sense. But that whole thing of like, that's how we're introducing the Justice League, really? And it's certainly not the worst Justice League that we're going to be talking about, but just not very good, is it? But again, could that be

an example of studio interference you know he maybe he wants to do you know maybe maybe the idea was snyder wanted to re you know introduce these characters more gradually in subsequent movies but they went we got to catch up on marvel i don't know because i don't think any of this is studio interference i think the next one is 80 studio interference but to me it seems like there was a lot of free reign in this movie. And I'm sure there's certain things that maybe they were like, look, you need to set it up, these certain characters. Yeah, maybe you're right. I don't know.

I don't know what I'm saying. Maybe. Yeah. It did occur to me, though, while I was watching that email unfold dramatically, maybe it would have been in Luthor's best interests if he wanted to kill superman to maybe manipulate some of the characters with actual superpowers maybe some of the younger ones sure less experience who might be easily more easily tricked like that dumbass the flash yeah absolutely maybe if you know where they are and where they live and who they are just be like hey you could bait aquaman into a barfire with superman

you know what i realized from this and also watching the rise of skywalker writer chris terrio he loves a ghost dad tells you a little story doesn't he boy does he ever yeah it just helps you through isn't it yeah hey what's up in this weird smoky mountaintop oh it's my ghost dad yeah tell me a story about a river and dead horses ah this makes me feel much better thank you very much. But the weird thing is that Martha Kent in this takes the role of Jonathan Kent from the previous movie where she's like, you don't know the world a damn thing.

This isn't your responsibility. It is. This is totally your responsibility. All this weird alien shit, you triggered a lot of it. You need to be involved. You are involved whether you like it or not. We all gonna die literally everyone earth is probably gonna be killed by this toothy tadpole unless you stop him it's past the point of like do you want to be superman you are superman now you just gotta do it i'm sorry like it's your first year you gotta give it at

least five i feel you know it's your first year so you've got to get in like your multi-decade anniversary where you're killed by Doomsday. You've got to sneak in your final battle with Batman as your first battle with Batman. Yep, yep, yep. You've got to get it all done in year one, man. Yeah, absolutely. So, of course, it does culminate in the battle

between Batman v Superman, Dawn of Justice. It's just not a very good fight, unfortunately, for me. Look, I have some notes here. Hang on, let me see if I can find some notes. I wonder if I have some notes on this battle. I mean, just from the opening. I've written here, James. The actual fight is a master class.

And then I pause dramatically and I say, in stupid contrivances that only exist to stop cooler heads prevailing. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Well, it does open with Superman being like, we need to talk. And he gets right up at his face and then shoves Batman Superman being like, we need to talk. And he gets right up at his face and then shoves Batman. He goes, we need to talk. I certainly hope that I don't step on anything that will prevent that from happening.

And then he steps on a little device that sets the sonic screamers going. Nobody can hear nothing. But he does shove him really hard before that happens as well. Yeah. You could stand a hundred feet away and yell at him. Yeah. I assume he's got super yelling. He definitely does. Also, you didn't x-ray the ground? Nah. You could stand a hundred feet away and yell at him. Yeah. I assume he's got super yelling. He definitely does.

Also, you didn't x-ray the ground? Nah. You know why? Because the fight has to keep going. Exactly. Well,

what I do like about this fight, it is Batman trying different stuff. And there's a lot of like, I got some machine guns, I got some sonic stuff, I got some kryptonite,

I got two kryptonite gas canisters, or three, he's got a few more. But, the idea also that you didn't just stab him straight up. If you wanted him dead, just shiv him.

He comes in and you just stab him. If you've got a kryptonite spear, and the chances of him flying you through multiple buildings and walls and you ending up near the kryptonite spear, they're not great, are they? They're really not, no. And the fact that you were even remotely near that towards the end of the battle, you are very lucky.

I mean, you literally saw the Battle of Metropolis. You could have ended up in Metropolis. I mean, it's only across the river. Well, that's enough, right? At this point. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, but Clark has so many opportunities to explain to Bruce,

hey, I need your help. But he doesn't take any of them because apparently machine guns bullets pinging off him ineffectively is enough to enrage him to the point where he'll throw batman through a wall yeah or you know down up down a well he's had a bloody gut full of it because in the last movie remember the army were like let's just shoot everybody he's like this is rude actually i don't like it look bruce's grenade launcher is a single shot maybe maybe again a billionaire with unlimited resources couldn't get one of those ones with the drum from Terminator 2. Totally.

It could have been popped up in that machine gun that he used at the start. That may be. Oh! I'm just saying. One's got the gas, one's got a spear. Yeah. Who knows?

There's a point in this fight where Batman is reloading his grenade launcher and it takes him 10 full seconds. I've gone back a number of times and I've counted it. And while Superman is still a little bit under the weather, this is fast enough. Yeah, this is the second time he's going to be hit with this as well. So he knows what it is.

Right, he's not going to be surprised. He's like, oh, it's the one thing in the world that might cause me some trouble. And he could do, again, he's still powerful enough to grab Batman and ragdoll him. He could fly through a wall. He could step out of the way wall he can step out of the way he can step out of the way

because the first one only hit him because he caught it don't catch it you can stomp the ground you can attempt some heat vision laser his hands off

yeah that's fine I don't know but you know what he does nothing until it's loaded and then he charges at him then he eats that grenade boy does he

god damn that Batsuit looks good though it's one of my faves it's so good. And look, I know we've been bashing this movie relentlessly. Haven't we? This is me being positive. It's a very good-looking movie.

And I think a lot of individual sequences in this, like the warehouse fight, like the nightmare sequence, like the opening sequence, like the bit where the piss is good. I think it's just really terrific. But as a whole, not quite. It's got a great opening sequence. The nightmare sequence is good. There's a couple

of what I would consider great action sequences unless you think about them at all. So the Batmobile sequence is good. So is the warehouse sequence, except when you remember that in that sequence, he does get shot in the head several times and nothing happens. So what they gonna do are they just gonna keep bearing down on him until he's like covered in goons yep and then they're gonna shoot him in the mouth yeah i think

so maybe also in that sequence if i may sure those goons have been told that if anybody comes for marquette side side note marquette is being held hostage and they've got like a belt fed M60 machine gun on her. What's Marquette going to do if she escapes? She's going to bake some cookies at you? Anyway, back to the thing. So those goons have been told that if anybody comes for Marquette, kill her. Yeah. Immediately. Superman's got super speed. You better kill her straight away. But then

Batman shows up in his Batplane and he blows up all their vehicles. I love how it gives them a little kick up through the window. That's terrific. And then they're like, well, better get ready for a fight with Batman. Or you could kill her and leave. I don't know. Yeah. He'd leave too.

I bet if you killed her, he'd be like, well, I don't need to be here anymore, do I? But no Marthas were going to die that night. I feel like that's the moment where I kind of lost faith in the action sequences of this movie. It's okay that we exist in this world where batman is okay with killing but even in this in the final sequence where uh the kg beast uh calum mulvey has a flamethrower trained on mark kent and batman's wielding a machine gun for some reason and i it's the moment where i'm like batman's gonna do some trickery here he's gonna get out some gadgets he's gonna do some martial arts.

Alfred's going to drone in. He came in through the wall, and that's very Batman, isn't it? It's pretty exciting. But you know what he does? He does the most Batman thing of all, which is to shoot the guy's flamethrower so he blows up and dies. So that's pretty cool and fun, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. So I guess we do have to talk about the Save Martha thing,

even though it's been talk to death. I mean, what do you say? We talk it to death some more. That's what we do, James. Look, the only thing that I really have to say to add to it is I'm surprised that Batman's surprised that Superman has a mother and that he didn't know that her name was Martha

because I think at that point in the movie he detected around enough to know that where he was from and his real parents. I would argue he didn't detect at all. Oh yeah, you might be right. Look, and here's the thing. So critics of this scene

will say, isn't it dumb that it took him to figure out that their mother's names were both Martha for Batman to stop attempting to murder Superman.

And then apologists of this scene will say, no, that's the moment where Batman realizes that even though they might be

from different worlds, they both have similar things that show their humanity and that they both have a mother. But I would say that's still dumb because you'd think that Batman, being the world's greatest detective, probably would have figured that out from any of the other things Superman had done,

like saving all those people from floods and fires, or maybe figure out his identity and then go to his house and observe him and see that that he you know he's a he's a he's a nice man with a nice man you know that he has that he does have a mother he hasn't murdered more people than you probably oh metropolis who knows but i mean 20 years in gotham you maybe have killed 5 000 people it's entirely possible but again it's just it isn, look, it's not even the idea of it. It's kind of the delivery. Superman says, save Martha, not save my mother.

Even if his last words, even if he knew Batman was going to kill him and he wanted to get it out there and he was going to say, save Martha Kent, what's Batman going to do with that information? I guess I'll check the phone book. Oh, she lives in Smallville. All right, guess I'm going to Small save martha kent what's batman going to do with that information i guess i'll check the phone book oh she lives in smallville all right guess i'm going to smallville then yeah yeah well i guess he was banking on him you know not killing him which he didn't no that's true and then we get doomsday don't we this is a very long movie and i just think my big problem with this is that it just runs through a whole lot of stuff from the comics in one, two and a half or three hour block. So we get Shades of the Dark Knight Returns, the death of Superman, plus it's a Justice League prequel.

All of these things together, it's far too much. I don't mind the Doomsday Battle, I guess, for what at the time was unusual to see a big gray hulking monster and fire and smoke and lightning. Like that was kind of the first time we would say, or one of the earliest times in a way. And every DC movie since then has kind of done a variation on that. Not all of them. Joker had that alley thing that we talked about. That's right.

There's some great stuff in the battle. Here's a line from Batman that I enjoyed. I've got to get it to chase me back to the city, back to the kryptonite. No, you don't. You're in a plane. Doomsday's busy over here doing whatever he's doing on Stryker's Island or whatever's happening.

Just fly back on your own. You go get it. Just go get it. Bring it back. And you come back. I mean, he's pretty big, but he probably won't have destroyed that entire island by the time you get back.

No, no, no, because no one's around, so he's just going to be stomping around being like, ah. That's probably true, yeah. Everyone went home from work already. Ah. Even the postal workers the line is she with you i i thought she was with you i kind of like that line yeah but the thing is though batman you sent her an email she's with you you know that right like it's it feels like it's just for the trailers or for the audience like it's who's that for like you're doing fun

little interplay. What is this? I don't understand it. Maybe it's just Batman's taking too many hits to the head. Yeah, no doubt. Well, he's been doing it for 30 years or whatever. Also, why does Superman go,

I have to do this, I have to be the guy with the spear? I understand you wouldn't give it to Batman because he's a man and he'd definitely die. Sure. Like, even if he got the spear in him, he'd definitely die.

So give it to Wonder Woman. She's doing very well against Doomsday. She seems to, honestly, upon a rewatch, she seems to be having a great time. Yeah, I know, right? Just smiling and laughing. Yeah. Just be like, hey, Wonder Woman, I'll take your lasso of truth. Yeah.

And you take the spear. You can kind of fly, I think. Wonder Woman could eat a piece of kryptonite and she would be fine. Right. Obviously, you would give it to her. could eat a piece of kryptonite and she would be fine right obviously you would give it to her so the idea that superman sacrifices himself is stupid because in the death of superman's story he does it because doomsday has torn through the justice league including wonder woman yeah and he's the only one left with powers that are even remotely in the ballpark of doomsday yeah but in

this scenario with the Kryptonite spear, or even without, there's another person who could do this. Also, she's proficient in short-range weapons. You're not. You're just doing big punches. And Martian Manhunter's still out there. He's still out there. Send the Flash in.

Get him to stick the spear in, then come back every couple of seconds and tap it in a little bit further. He'd fall over. He'd fall over, it's probably true. And then, of course, what I've always had a problem with this movie is that, and you mentioned up top, why would people care that Superman died? I mean, I guess it would probably be about 50-50 if this guy really existed

because what he's done here, he's died fighting another terrible thing that's from the terrible planet that he is from. So I'd be kind of like, well, I'm glad Doomsday's dead, but I'm also kind of glad that Superman's dead. It seems a little bit like Superman's a real beacon for horrible things happening to my city and the lives of my family. So, you know, swings and roundabouts, I guess. It certainly is.

I just think this kind of universe, I think it would be better suited if Zack Snyder did like an Injustice version of this. I think he'd nail it. I think so too. Maybe it is the Injustice universe, sort of. We don't know at this point, do we? But I think the idea that they're these dark, twisted versions of the characters, I don't have a problem with that.

But it doesn't seem to add up because they also try and shoehorn them into the way that they are in the comics a lot of the time. And it just doesn't mesh. And it's probably just the murdering. But it's the sadness of a lot of the main characters, in particular Superman, that it doesn't work for me. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean. That being said, I'd watch the heck out of a Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Laura Cohen, Flashpoint movie

in the future where she's the Joker and he's alternate Batman guy from the... You know what I mean? Yeah, I wonder if maybe that's been part of the plan all along. I hope, I mean, who knows at this point what we're actually going to see, but I would love to see Zack Snyder's version of that weird twisted universe where Wonder Woman and Aquaman are fighting against each other. And we are maybe getting a Flashpoint movie. I mean, who knows?

With all this Ezra Miller shit, who really knows what we're going to end up getting. But yeah, that movie would be cool, I think. Also, it's kind of the direction that Batman v Superman is going because Flash comes back in time and is like, Superman's a horrible murderer. You probably had a dream about it. Look, I feel like, again,

it's the idea that Batman is basing so much of his opinion on Superman, not on detecting, not on his obvious good deeds that he's doing in real life, but by... Obvious good deeds? But by a couple of dreams he had one night? Yeah. Bearing in mind that maybe...

I mean, he saw the Metropolis thing. Maybe his dreams are being affected by the fact that his breakfast is pills and booze. Yeah, it might be. And he might be a little bit stressedze. Yeah, it might be. And he might be a little bit stressed out. Well, that's the thing. I mean, and obviously this question would have been answered if we got Zack Snyder's version of Justice League, which of course we are getting.

But none of this stuff is answered. Superman just kind of comes back and it's all resolved. And what was the nightmare sequence? Where was the Flash in the future? Why did he have a little moustache under his helmet? What's the plan here? And I can kind of piece it together from the things that they were going to do i think but none of that is resolved and that's obviously why the justice league bombed horribly not just why but that was like a factor into people hating it james i'm gonna go crazy with notes okay number one there's a scene at the start of the movie

where where bat Batman's looking for some, he's trying to track down the KJ Beast, and he goes to an underground fighting ring. I don't know if you remember that particular sequence, but I feel that was a perfect opportunity for Wayne to dress as his criminal alter ego, Matches Malone. I think that would have been perfect.

And obviously, that mustache that he wears would have been a great through line for the whole rest of the series. You know what I mean? Wouldn't that be incredible? Oh my God. Speaking of mustaches, speaking of the Flash's mustache. Look, I've written here a lot of the scores of the mustache twirling variety.

Oh yeah. A lot of it is, you know, if Luthor were tying a woman to the tracks. Yeah, definitely. Which in a way he is, metaphorically. I've written here, it was nice of Luthor to knock up logos for all the heroes. He had an intern probably. I guess he had an intern, yeah. I've just written here,

this is just a visualization for myself. It just says, in the final battle, Batman v Superman. Batman spinning Superman around on his grappling hook, but it's Rose from Titanic. It's a bit of fun, isn't it? Well, Ben will edit that together.

It's going to look terrific. Terrific. It probably already exists in GIF form. I've written here, and then everyone goes to clark kent's open casket funeral how will they explain his return from the dead in the next one surprise they won't you can't put that on this movie though i feel you don't think so no i think he was just like it's a cool visual oh definitely yeah i mean he wanted the he wanted the counterpoint between the huge, opulent, dramatic military funeral of Superman, the icon, versus the humble funeral of farm boy Clark Kent. Yes. But, I mean.

I got it. Sure. I just did it. We get things, yeah. I've just written here, it's kind of interesting that Clark Kent, journalist, doesn't know who Bruce Wayne is. You know, billionaire, industrialist, socialite. I mean, he's new, he's new. He's probably new, he's probably, yeah, he's new of interesting that Clark Kent, journalist, doesn't know who Bruce Wayne is. You know, billionaire, industrialist, socialite. I mean, he's new, he's new. He's probably new, he's probably, yeah, he's new to Earth, I guess.

I mean, he's 32, but he's new. Yeah, he's very new, that's probably true. He's just a humble farm boy. He's just a humble farm boy. He doesn't even have Twitter, probably. Yeah. Look, honestly, I could talk about Batman v Superman all day. Not entirely positively, but it's got a lot of stuff in it, doesn't it?

Well, that's the thing, it does have a lot of stuff in it. Which is where I think Justice League fails, which we might doesn't it? Well that's the thing it does have a lot of stuff in it. Which is where I think Justice League fails which we might talk about next week. Here's the thing though all of these complaints that I have of this movie I can't explain this

but watching this again I like this like a lot and I don't know what it is about it that I do like in particular. It's like with love I guess when you know you know.

Do you know what I mean? And this isn't me trying to placate people who love this movie, because I think I've said enough horrible things about it where people are going to come at us regardless. But it's just a big, silly movie. And I think the scene that kind of sums that up the most for me is where there's an unshaven Ben Affleck Batman

storming into Lex Luthor's cell, and he's got the bat-shaped car cigarette lighter, and he's waving it around in his face. And just, what a weird and silly scene to put in a movie. Yeah, right. And you see something like that

and to me, that's not something that I go, well, this is dark and gritty and this is the realest thing I've ever seen in my life. It's just a funny, silly thing that's happening in a pretty silly,

funny movie. Yeah. You take the score out of that and it's just like a man in a rubber suit creaking. Yeah, exactly. Creaking a lot. Yeah. Also, the score out of that and it's just like a man in a rubber suit creaking. Yeah, exactly. Creaking a lot. Yeah.

Also, did he knock out those two guards? I don't know. What did he do? He probably killed them. Probably killed them. Look, it's a reasonable sacrifice to make. I'll kill these two guys so I can threaten the third guy. Yeah, absolutely.

But I know you've got a lot of thoughts in relation to themes of this movie. And the rich themes well here's the thing here's the thing James a lot of people there are going to be some people out here who have gotten to this point in the video and they're like

you two are idiots which is true we know we know we're idiots we don't understand anything but you're like this you've just talked about action and you've talked about

explosions and special effects and mustache twirling and bullets. That's not what this movie's about. We talked about the piss. What do you mean? No, no, no, no, no, James. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not about props either.

This movie is filled with themes. We didn't talk about themes. It's filled with allegories. It's filled with references. Demons, gods, paintings, upside-down paintings. Upside-down paintings. Yeah. So, for example, it's clear to me that outside the theatre

where Bruce Wayne's parents are killed, we see an advertisement for Excalibur, the movie Excalibur, right? Which is a portent for things to come, obviously, because in the Arthurian legend, King Arthur and Sir Lancelot, they're both good, righteous men. Yep. Right? Two good, righteous men. Yep. Two good, righteous men. Like Bill and Ted.

Exactly. Who, through years of battling evil together, they form this relationship of loyalty and trust and friendship that seems unbreakable, but then forces outside themselves, they tear apart this bond, which is a perfect allegory for Batman and Superman in the comic book Batman the Dark Knight Returns but in this in this movie they're just a couple of guys who've met once or twice who have to have a big fight because of an easily solved misunderstanding yeah you see what I mean but it's good to know I feel

that Batman v Superman has just as much in common with like an Arthurian myth as it does with two drunk guys just punching up in a parking lot. Mythic allegories as old as time, James. I think maybe that Excalibur allegory might be that that movie came out in 1991 and it just kind of sets the timeframe of this movie. No, no, I've seen graphics. I've seen graphics to the contrary, James. But I feel that's my point.

Like it's kind of easy to go, if you were to bring, you know the arthurian legend to modern times and put it on two average joes yeah and and make a movie about that that's pretty cool but i mean this it it's not a one-to-one representation you know no it's absolutely not it's just imagine if it doesn't work it just seems like you didn't get it to be honest you didn't get it when When people are like, when I say the outside forces tore them apart, in the Arthurian legend, it's Guinevere, who is King Arthur's wife, but then becomes the lover of Lancelot sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. Who's that in the movie? The building in Knockdown. Oh! Makes a lot of sense then. It's the CEO that was left behind. It's Jack! Oh my God, it makes a lot of sense is it crime

fighting is his name jack is it because batman's jealous that superman's taking all the crime fighting it's so strange that they circle each other the whole movie being like you've been you better stop what you're doing you should both stop what you're doing yeah like to be honest you should both leave to your respective caves and never come back you're causing more trouble than you're solving honestly anyway i just wanted to say that just to point out for people who are like, you don't understand the themes. I know there are themes in it. I know all the...

Moby Dick, there's a theme in this movie. Yeah. Prometheus, there's a theme in this movie. Who's the whale? Is it Jack? Is it Jack? No, it's Superman, in this instance. Who's...

Captain Ahab? Who's Prometheus? Michael Fassbender? No, I think it's Lex Luthor. Oh, what's the piss mean? It's just piss, I think. Okay. Yeah.

Okay, it's just piss. Just piss, yeah. Okay, I got it. Great, terrific. Got some trivia here because people love trivia. If we don't mention trivia, people will be like, you didn't mention this. Well, guess what?

Here's a screenshot of some IMBD trivia. I'll be not doing it. This is long enough, right? Absolutely, yep. Just to be clear, we've seen the page. We know it's there. We know it's there. And you can visit it and check it out. There might even be a link below. Yeah, and I think

to sum this up for me, if you like this, and just because we've kind of ripped through it in a big way. We rip through everything. We do. Well, not everything. Not good stuff. Yeah, but I really, I don't want that to detract from people's love for it, and I don't think you're an idiot if you love this movie.

You can like whatever you like, and that's great. If you get a lot of joy out of this, I genuinely think it's terrific because I also get a lot of joy out of this, it turns out. Watching this again, I liked it much more than when I saw it the first time where I thought it was okay. So it feels really good to be able to say that. And this, for people who don't know, this is a re-watch of this movie without the weight of expectations because we started our podcast yeah the weekly planet good plug mason thank you in anticipation of this movie coming out in

theaters every week we would have some new news about the production of batman v superman also a lot of shy laboff news but we had to make a choice, and we went with BVS. And upon watching it, we had thoughts. But again, it was the anticipation building that affected our minds. Absolutely. Like Batman. Like Batman. Anyway, I'm genuinely curious if people love or hate this movie

or somewhere in between. If you do want to talk about that below, that would be great. Be civil if you could. If you want to scream at anyone, you can scream at us. That's okay. I'm not reading them, so yep. But of course, we will be back next week for Justice League, which is worse in every way because it's doing less.

But we'll talk about it next week, obviously, to cap off this trilogy in the lead-up to the Snyder Cut, which, of course, is releasing at some point, isn't it? That's right. Yeah. I'm, of course, at MrSundayMovies on Twitter. I'm at WikipediaBrown on Twitter. Subscribe if you want to.

We've got that podcast. You can check it out. Let's all just... You love themes, Mason. Batman represents the Democrats because his eyes are blue. Yep. Superman represents the Republicans because his eyes are red. I. Superman represents the Republicans because his eyes are red. I know everyone.

Is that a thing? It's a theme. Is it? It's a theme in the movie apparently. Really? Yeah, yeah. I love themes.

The movie represents the political process. So who's, what's the jar of piss then? It's still just piss. Okay. But politicians love piss. They do, don't they?

Yeah. It only makes you think. Yeah. This is too long. Goodbye. Agreed. Grabbed It only makes you think. Yeah. This is too long. Goodbye. Agreed. Grabbed our gem, you guys. We'll see you next week.

This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want. It's up to you. As women, our life stages come with unique risk factors, like high blood pressure developed during pregnancy, which can put us two times more at risk of heart disease or stroke. Know your risks.

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