The Weekly Planet - Return to Oz - Caravan Of Garbage

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

46 years after the original Wizard of Oz comes Disney's attempt at a sequel, Return to Oz. Whilst a huge cinematic bomb in 1985 the same year it arrived it's legacy endured by the generation of children it traumatised by putting Dorothy through a series of horrifying trials to yet again attempt to make her way back to Kansas. This time she's joined by Tik-Tok, Jack Pumpkin Head the The Gump as she battles against the Nome King, Mombi and The Wheelers. It certainly is something. Without a doubt. Thanks for checking out our Caravan Of Garbage reviewSUBSCRIBE HERE ►► http://goo.gl/pQ39jNHelp support the show and get early episodes ► https://bigsandwich.co/Patreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesJames' Twitter ► http://twitter.com/mrsundaymoviesMaso's Twitter ► http://twitter.com/wikipediabrownPatreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesT-Shirts/Merch ► https://www.teepublic.com/stores/mr-sunday-movies The Weekly Planet iTunes ► https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-weekly-planet/id718158767?mt=2&ign-mpt=uo%3D4 The Weekly Planet Direct Download ► https://play.acast.com/s/theweeklyplanetAmazon Affiliate Link ► https://amzn.to/2nc12P4 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back everybody to another episode of Caravan of Garbage where we're looking at some Wizard of Oz stuff. That's right. This one might be, um, this one might be therapeutic for some people. A lot of people, certainly around our age, who have vague memories of being traumatized by this one. Yeah, I got a bit of that. But you don't know why? So the whole time watching this I'm like, what if this is the bit? Yeah. And the whole time I'm watching it I'm like, where's the flying car? Oh, that's Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. It's Chitty.

I'll mix them up. Ian Fleming's own? Yeah that's right. Anyways leave a like because we're looking at 1985's. Oh yes correct. Return to Oz. That's right. Directed by some guy. Yeah oh look I do want to talk about that. I think look there's some beautiful work in this. You know some world building and animatronics and special effects and the music is great with the score at least because it's not a musical But this is it's definitely missing Something that the first one had yeah now here's something that it's not missing, but it felt notable to me

So in this Dorothy not played by Judy Garland in my she was an older lady at this point or dead or dead Mmm, but instead this is this is fire is a bulk Yeah, people who had a you know very significant significant career after this. Abbie Gilmore. No the other one. She was she was Nancy in the Craft. Yeah but she was not Abbie Gilmore, that's the one. The one where Adam Sandler plays a football player got hit in the head. The Waterboy. There we go yes. But a bunch of stuff. I think she's great generally but I feel like and I and I think she's good in the role. I think she's great Yeah, the character looks significantly younger than Judy Garland was and this is supposed to be said after that and I'm so I'm like

I don't I it never feels like she's the same character to me I think that is a problem with this as well because even though it is it's sort of a direct sequel But it's also it's Disney. It's not M. So there's one MGM element that does carry over. The lion? No. Well, even then, like, the returning characters... James Bond? James Bond. Yeah.

The returning characters, they don't look like the previous one. The scarecrow just has like a big frozen head. Yeah. Just a terrifying smile. The Tin Man is just sort of like he would never work in live action because he's got a really, like a pin narrow neck. The lion's a lion. And look, I know that is more accurate to the books.

And James Bond's George Lazenby at this point. Yeah, definitely. George Lazenby was still doing it in the 80s, wasn't he? I mean, he was still doing something in the 80s, I'll tell you that, but how he got here was, that Disney purchased the rights to the remaining 13 Oz books in 1954. So they started production on a movie called The Rainbow Road to Oz.

Okay. That never went through. Film rights were about... That became a Mario game. That did. That's right. Film rights were about to expire in the 80s before Walter Murch, his one and only movie that he directed, stepped in for an idea for the sequel.

There's another director involved in this. Oh yeah, there absolutely is. We should talk about that too. So yeah, this is like a blend of a couple for the sequel. There's another director involved in this. I'll make sure. Oh yeah, absolutely. We should talk about that too. So yeah, this is like a blend of a couple of the books. And at this point also they're in public domain. And in the books, the slippers aren't ruby, they're like silver. So the one element they actually had to pay for was-

Ruby slippers. Ruby slippers. Because that was still held by MGM. And presumably still is. Yeah, but they were probably going bankrupt at the time. Yeah, they were probably going bankrupt. They'd take anything at this point. What is also interesting, so this, yeah, I wasn't- You need the slippers, by the way,

because that's the only thing people, people would be confused. In this, they've been transformed from kind of like a kind of symbolic novelty to a sort of like wish fulfillment weapon of mass destruction that can do anything. It's Anakin's lightsaber. Right.

But shoes. That's right. They've killed so many people, those shoes. Hell yeah. Yeah. They're like those shoes that that Russian lady has from Russia with love. The knives in them.

The gnome king went around and individually kicked everybody to death. I wish he did. With ruby knife shoes. But what I was gonna say, so this one for the most part is based on Osmar of Oz, the book. And so a lot of the stuff in this

is directly from that book, but also it's such a disconnect because most of the characters from the previous movie aren't in this. It's just a bunch of new guys. And I don't think that necessarily hurts it. I think it does a bit. Yeah, no, okay, it does hurt it,

but I do love the design element of these new characters. TikTok for example Perfect name by the way, and you're early. You're way too early. Kids if you're not interested in the movie, there's TikTok in it So maybe just watch it and we'll wait. Guess what? We tricked you. It wasn't TikTok the app at all He's a big ball. He's a big ball man So that had a contortionist in it and he would walk backwards. You can only do it for 15 minutes. Adam Savage has got a video on it. That's great. Where they pull it apart and look at the inner workings. And then by the end...

They torture TikTok to death. Basically. He could do it for like an hour. So, yeah, they've got him. They've got the gump, which is a moose's head. You can tie it or whatever. They bring to life with a powder. And they've got another one. Can we talk about the gump for a second? Well, the gump evidently was played was was played by two people was voiced by two people Lyle Conway

But also Steve Norrington who directed Blade. What? Yeah And the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. What? I know and I'm like that can't be true, but then I clicked the link it is true Before he was a film director, he was the gump. He was the gump. And there's a third one. Oh, it's the pumpkin headed guy. Yeah, Jack Pumpkin Head. Yeah, there we go.

Who's, I believe, puppeted by Brian Henson. Yeah, that is absolutely correct. What I don't like about TikTok and the pumpkin headed guy is they walk so precariously. There's a moment where they're going up a staircase and I'm like, no, don't. Was that your childhood trauma? It must have been.

What was my childhood trauma from this? I think the electroshock therapy, oh, by the way, the lesson in the last movie was, there's no place like home, stay in your lane. But in this one, it's, no, your house got flattened by a tornado and you've gone insane and everyone thinks you're insane, because you went to Oz.

But you really went to Oz? wasn't it wasn't in your mind It was real but everybody thinks it's in your mind and you won't shut up about it You keep saying it's real and the only evidence that it was real was the Ruby slippers, but you lost them But even then it wouldn't prove anything would it because they're shoes. They're just shoes You stole them you you awful little delinquent. And so she's gonna be sent to an asylum and get zapped by electroshock therapy. And they've done the same thing where, you know,

characters in the real world then get represented by people in Oz. And then she escapes to Oz once again and another natural disaster sends it to Oz. Is that happening in this universe all the time? Just anything? I guess it is. A light hail and you're in Oz

You're in a moped accident you're in Oz a Bit of ice on the road you like whoa Dammit, how do I get back? Oh, it's really long and confusing. Can I do it now? Can I just learn my lesson now? Can I make I'm gonna have to meet an assortment of oddball characters and make their lives Better in some way. What do you mean? I have to feed an egg to a rock man. What's that gonna do with anything? That's a specific example that is in this movie, which I do want to talk about. I'm traumatized But anyway, she ends up back in Oz. The wheelers. Yeah They freaked people out. My main memory of this movie was the wheelers So I assumed it was landed the source of my trauma in this movie

Sure My fake comedy trauma for comedy and you do you think one of them look like Matt and did you think one of them look? The memory of this movie was the Wheeler, so I assumed it was the source of my trauma in this movie. Sure. My fake comedy trauma for comedy. And did you think one of them looked like Matt... And did you think one of them looked like Matt Fuhrer? Sorry. And did you think one of them looked like... Fucking hell.

What's going on? I don't know, man. And did you think one of them looked like... And did you think one of them looked like Matt Fuhrer? A little bit. Yeah, but it wasn't him. He was a stuntman. And this is his ear as well.

Yeah, absolutely it was. It's crazy it's not Matt Frua. I don't understand it quite frankly. But anyway, upon a re-watch, I don't think so. They're fine. They're fine. I mean, also like in looking at them, unless you're on a flat plane, you're probably alright. You could close the door, they're not going to be able to open that.

The only thing moving more precariously than TikTok and Jack Pumpkin head of these guys, you just tip them over. You crush a moped into them. I'm assuming I've got my moped from- Oh, it came with you. Like the house came with you. That's exactly right. The chicken, there's a chicken, the chicken came with you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The moped comes with you. They're like, you'll never defeat me. And I'm like, I'll kill you with this moped. I'll just drive it into you. I'll run over one of your legs. Yeah, that's right. Break it in half.

Yeah, I think they seem easy to evade and those wheels attached Do they eat from a bowl like a giraffe drinking from a body of water like legs splayed? Yeah, maybe what's the situation here? They'd be vulnerable to crocodile the bottom on the head. I enjoyed the part where where tick-tock just flail around and beat the hell out of That was good. Yeah, very cathartic. He's fun, I like him. Yeah, me too. I like his different wind-up bits. He reminded me of Mr. Hero, the pneumatic man. Okay, which is from?

It's a comic book. I love comic books. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Comic book movies. Yeah. Also, Avengers. Yeah, sure. Dark Knight.

Yep. Heath Ledger. Yep. Yeah. One good... To calm down some of our viewers that have not had a comfortable reference. I could put it in the tags.

I could put it in the tags. We're gonna get so much engagement. Yeah, that's legit. I don't tag anything. I don't know what works. I just stopped doing it. It's just too hard. Mason, here's something that I think

might've freaked me out. TikTok, we could put TikTok in the tags. Oh, we could actually. I'll put a hashtag TikTok in it. The queen with her multiple heads is horrifying Yeah And there is a moment where Dorothy goes to steal something from her and they all start screaming and it is pretty upsetting I'm not yet. That might be the only that's the thing Yeah

So she has she has chopped the head off of some some Osnatives and turn them to stone and now she can get on whatever head she wants. Yeah, that was she looks great She does look great. Yeah, I like what she's doing. The one of them was Parker Posey, but it wasn't I was a nice before her time for her time I thought one of them was Matt Fruer and it was his time. It wasn't him It's not in this movie at all as far as I know it was too busy being in Generation X a decade or so later I agree. Hmm. Some of the special effects that I think are really great is Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. The kind of I don't know what I don't know Did you look at any behind the scenes? Did they even have the motion? It is stop motion. Yeah, right

That's what the behind the scenes you click on the motion. How do you think we did is the 80s? Yeah, what do we use computers? Shut up? Yeah, you an idiot. Yeah, I'll stop playing pong for a second So I could do some computer generated rocks on my computer. So I can buy Apple to a you idiots Yeah, yeah, you know the bit where the gump is eaten by a big rock man. Yeah, I do rocks on my computer. On my Apple IIE, you idiots. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know the bit where the gump is eaten by a big rock man? Yeah, I did that on my Apple II. Yeah. Fucking idiot.

I still playing, what's the one where they swing on the ropes or whatever? Pitfall. Pitfall. Thank you. You start playing pitfall? Yeah. That's a good game probably. I don't know.

Yeah, I think also where this falls down is there's a logic Go on. I don't know if you'd call it a logic But there seems to be like a through line of why things are sort of happening in the first one And I know like the witch dies because she gets water on her or whatever but here The the rock guy eats an egg. Yeah, as I alluded to before when I said it explicitly Yes, and he's like, oh shit, that was a thing I'm not supposed to do. Which I guess sort of tracks in this universe where a weird thing will kill a person for whatever.

Yeah, but it's also foreshadowed earlier in the movie. I know, because he wants the chicken. No chickens allowed. I know. No chickens allowed. I know, it's no chickens allowed. But like, even then, I just don't... Okay.

I don't know, it's just kind of out of left field. I think it tracks perfectly for me. Okay, yeah, and you loved it. Yes I just think the the personality is just not is not here and not to say there are bad performances But there is something about the wicked witch and her pursuit and the flying monkeys and all of that Yeah, and that is all there's versions of that here But it's not it's not quite is it because because in Is it because in the main antagonist of the first one, it's just the Wicked Witch, but in this, we've got the Gnome King and we've got the Queen.

Switchy Witch Head. Yeah, Switchy Witch Head. Yeah. And then all the wheelie guys and whatever. Yeah, maybe. I think also the personality is stripped out of a lot of the things that we recognize as we talked about, like the Scarecrow and the Lion

and the Tin Man turning up, their entire, like like the idea that that's a person in a suit and the fun of that is just it's completely evaporated. The idea that that we are all kind of playing make-believe. Yeah I think the yeah I mean maybe like why is some things consistent in one like one I'm not happy to see this version of the Scarecrow I hate him. It kind of felt like the first one really was very ahead of its time in the sense that it did feel quite self-aware. Yeah. Like it did a lot of the characters, especially the wizard in the first one, like they're all very well aware that they are like playing, they are playing roles. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't think the fact that it's dark is why it doesn't entirely work or even also why it bombed. Or maybe it, maybe that

probably helped it bomb initially It helped because I think yeah Because I think there are kids movies from this era that are dark and spooky and freaked kids out But they're remembered fondly yes, but I think there is a joylessness to this Which kind of is the through line like it is this wondrous universe, but because everyone's being turned to stone It's kind of empty and it's like four guys like running around yeah for a bit I think yeah it is that and there's a there's that complicated element to the universe which I don't like he ate an egg as I know I keep

coming back to it. You're obsessed man. Is this because you traumatize because you love eggs. I like eggs. You like an egg. I would hate if I ate an egg and then I was poisoned by that egg but it would have to be a regular egg. If it was a poisoned egg I'd be like that tracks. But if it was a regular egg, no. Another scene that potentially maybe was the one that traumatized me as a kid is the point speaking of being transformed is the when all the companions they go down into the hall of trinkets and etc. and they have to guess which ones are have been, is the scarecrow been transformed into an ornament and if they guess wrong they get turned into an ornament

That was that might have been it honestly that is harrowing. I mean, there's more harrowing films in the world. Sure I could I could think of some I'm not going to but I could that was on me for most of the recording I noticed me going like this was under my shirt and I had to squash. Oh my god Yeah, I thought you're just having a good time. No, I was having a bad time. Because of the bug. I thought it was a worm initially. What? I'll get a photo of it, it'll go in the video.

We can cut this out I think. I'll get a photo of it. It's irrelevant. It's going in the video. Fine. Fine, if that's what you want. But I think also there is a horror to that and the horror for that is that it's nonsense. Right. And you can't really, I mean they do logic their way out of it

But even when they start to win the guys like no, I'm eating I'm eating people now So I think yeah, I think that's not wrong I think also it's not a musical and even though the music in this is good. Yeah Yeah, I think the score is good. Uh-huh. And here's who did it. I think, yeah that- Oh, it's Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross from Nine Inch Nails. Yes. Damn, they're good. They're so good.

This was their era. Yeah, right. Like Matt Fruer. I think that also adds something because even though there is darkness in that first movie, because it's not like that movie isn't dark. It is. It's like it also traumatized children in the way that this did. As we talked about, the woman who played the witch Margaret Hamilton

She spent the rest of her life telling people that she was a nice person Yeah, because of how well she played that so yeah I don't know man your characters in this movie had to spend their whole life saying I don't have wheels for hands look You can see them regular. I don't know I still think you're lying Anyways Mason it's time for trivia to Oz This is the first use of the Walt Disney Pictures logo with the rainbow going over the Blue Castle. And now they use that in the Disney Plus logo where it goes click whatever. Yeah, great stuff.

Cartoonist, you'll know this, you'll recognize a thief Mason. Cartoonist at the time Tim Burton, he acknowledged that Jack Pumpkinhead was inspiration for Jack Skellington in the movie The Nightmare Before Christmas a movie he didn't direct. He didn't direct it but everybody thinks he directed it. That's right. But also this movie didn't invent you get a guy and you put a pumpkin on his head. It didn't? I don't think so. Oh my god you're probably right. That was 1983's stop or my mum will put a pumpkin on my head. That's a good movie. Yeah. Oh, we got to talk about, you mentioned this, you can talk about it because you know. I bet I don't.

What happened with the director on this? I don't know. Oh my god. I only wanted to talk about Stephen Norrington. Oh, I've got another thing. So Disney fired the director Walter Murch a week into production due to budget concerns. They found the dailies, they were kind of slow in the pace of the thing. They were like, we don't love this.

So he contacted Francis Ford Coppola, Steven Spielberg and George Lucas, and they lobbied Disney to rehire him. Lucas even said, if this falls behind, I will take over and finish this film. He would have come out of director's jail for making three Star Wars movies too well to do this. So I love that.

And the other thing is when George Lucas visited the set one day, he came across producer Rick McCollum, who of course ended up being his producer on, well through the young Indiana Jones Chronicles and up through the Star Wars prequels. So they met. I know people hate Rick McCollum, we talked about him, we talked about the prequels because he's like, oh, yes, man or whatever. But he was pivotal in making George Lucas's vision for the Star Wars prequels. And they met right here.

Wow. With Stephen Norrington also probably. He was there as well. I'm here too. I could help. Blade. What? Blade.

Are you threatening me sir? Hollywood police get that man. Oh my god. Mason box office on a budget of 28 million dollars Which is a lot of money for the time and not now it's nothing. It's nothing. It made in its initial run 11.1 million. That's a big bomb. Yeah, it became a bit of a cult classic Disney kind of buried it from the get-go Yeah, they didn't like it They had new executives come on board during post-production and they were like we hate this

So they basically gave it limited promotion and a short theatrical run which for the time was probably eight and a half months. Absolutely. And uh. You kids don't know. No. And it's. So we had in theatres. It was Return of Oz.

And you'd be like your parents would be like you want to see a movie? Return of Oz is out. And you'd be like no. No thank you not that one. Yeah. Well I think though with the invention of the internet and people being like what was that movie? I saw the frighten me so much Yeah, this has had a resurgence and it is kind of getting a bit more respect which it deserves by the way because it is

It's a like a marvelously made film. Let me tell again that stop-motion is good Yeah, the initial stop-motion you first see like some hints of it. Yeah, it's not that great Yeah, but then as the movie progresses, it gets a lot better. You go, what is this Pingu? Yeah, right. I think it's better, et cetera. What is this Gumby? What is this,

Plasmo, Australian style motion. You remember this fucking nightmare? Look at it. Oh yeah, vaguely. Yeah, Plasmo. Yeah, Plasmo. Anyways, we've got one more Wizard of Oz movie, which we're gonna come back and talk about.

What is this trap door? Love trap door. Burke, feed me, et cetera. Absolutely. Don't you open that trap door. Precisely. Burke, stop opening the trap door. I think you should probably stop opening the trap door.

There's all sorts of monsters in there. Don't open the trap door, Burke. There's monsters in the trap door. Great song. And there was. I know, I was there. I was there man. You were there. Anyways, if you do want to watch the next Wizard of Oz movie we're looking at, Oz the Great and Powerful, you can actually head over to BigSandwich.co because all our videos go up there early. But that's not the only thing. We've got video game let's plays.

We've got bonus podcasts. That's right. We've got movie commentaries. That's right. Our podcast, The Weekly Planet, where we talk movies and comics comics and TV shows that comes out there ad free and early on Sunday as opposed To Monday, but if you just want to listen that podcast where we we shoot the shit about the news of the week Excuse me. We shoot we shouldn't we we shunt be that it's an expression Mason. I don't like it. Okay, we shoot to the poop Yeah No, no, no, we know sounds weirdly little that sounds weirdly literal and I don't like we nerf to the poop? Yeah. No. No? That sounds weirdly literal and I don't like it.

We nerf gun the poop. Have a look. What? No. It's safe. I think we'll go to prison for that. I don't think that's true. I hope. Anyway, the weekly planet.

Forget all that, but it is on its own YouTube channel. It's on Spotify. It's on Apple. I think I can never forget all that. No, you have to. All right. I think I'm re-traumatized again. I thought I'd end this video

cleansed of my trauma from this movie no your weird words have made me traumatized again all right everybody we'll see in the next one you're ab dead Jamie guys we'll see you real soon and thank you to Lawrence for the edits thank you Lawrence