The Weekly Planet - Saw II - Caravan Of Garbage

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

Saw II took everything that was great about the first in the series, turned it up to eleven but also made sure it came out not quite as good. And whilst that is certainly the general consensus it's not without some interesting Saw-narios.This time Donnie Whalberg of Whalbergers fame comes face to face with Jigsaw himself in a game of cat and mouse so needlessly complex and impossible to win it sends everyone into a real tiz. Anyways we talk about Saw II in this. Did I need to say that I mean you get it. Thanks for the support.SUBSCRIBE HERE ►► http://goo.gl/pQ39jN​Video Edition ► https://youtu.be/ONazdvCYEG4Help support the show and get early episodes ► https://bigsandwich.co/​Patreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymovies​James' Twitter ► http://twitter.com/mrsundaymovies​Maso's Twitter ► http://twitter.com/wikipediabrown​T-Shirts/Merch ► https://www.teepublic.com/stores/mr-s...​The Weekly Planet iTunes ► https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/t...​The Weekly Planet Direct Download ►

As women, our life stages come with unique risk factors, like when our estrogen levels drop during menopause, causing the risk of heart disease to go up. Know your risks. Visit heartandstroke.ca. FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret.

The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. Welcome back to Caravan of Garbage, everybody. And you all know when it's time for another Saw episode because Mason rolls up into my house on a tiny little red bicycle, squeaking down the road with a sinister look in his eye.

Leave a like if you could because he needs to get that bike oil, don't you, Mason? And that will go towards that. I feel the squeak's part of its charm, though, you know what I mean? Sure. Maybe I'll make it extra squeaky. I'll put some cheese. I'll put some, what's that cheese?

What's the cheese? The squeaky cheese. You know the squeaky cheese? Yeah, I know the one you made. Squeaky cheese. Ben, put up the name of the squeaky cheese. You get it as a side dish at a cafe. So are you eating the squeaky cheese on the bike?

Yeah, but I'm doing it on microphone. It's really annoying. Oh, very good. So this week, of course, we've come back to this franchise to talk about Saw II, which was... Saw Control. That's right. It was rushed into production.

And boy, does he have Saw Control, you know what I mean? He certainly does this time around because the idea of this film was that it was a different script called The Desperate, which for years was trying to get made. Oh, then a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy, right? Exactly, yeah. So director Darren Lynn Bozeman came on board, said, I'll helm this franchise.

They made some tweaks with Lee Whannell, who of course was involved in the first Saw. I was making a tweak, that guy. Exactly. And so the whole thing was then built around the character of Jigsaw, who spent, I just found out in watching the behind the scenes of this, I thought it was a body, like a fake body on the floor in the first Saw. That was Tobin Bell.

He lay there for four days. Wow. Wow. So it must have been cheaper in the budget to pay somebody to lie on the floor than to build a dummy. I guess so, yeah. I mean, but in this one the budget's massively been increased there's so many dummies in this it's just buckets of dummies everywhere

just bits and pieces of mannequins just a house full of dummies running around killing each other well it's interesting isn't it that um i mean one of the characters i would describe as just a guy who just deliberately walks into traps like he yeah they're like you know there's gonna be a trap behind that door right he's like yeah but like, yeah, but I'll be fine, I reckon. Are you talking about the gun? The trap that's just a gun? Yeah, well, yeah, I guess so. There is a trap that's just a gun, yeah.

So which one are you talking about? I'm talking about the guy, I think he's a drug dealer. Right. He's the big one? Yeah, and he slices the back of his neck open. He cuts a perfect square off the back of his neck without even looking. Incredible. How would you even know you could do that until you did it?

Do you know what I mean? And as he's dying, he's like, oh, this is my secret talent. Can I translate this into big money, big prizes? But do you want to talk about the story this time around? Yes. Because it's sort of the extreme, isn't it? So what's Jigsaw up to? Okay, so this time his vague mission of making people appreciate their own lives by mostly killing them yeah uh

has moved further yeah this time he's kidnapped donnie walberg's son donald walberg walberg but in this case he's a crooked cop he's done some stuff yeah he's not on the take but he does like to plan evidence on people so that's pretty bad he's clearly not on the take because he's wearing the biggest suit i've ever seen when he's introduced. He's swimming in that suit. Is that Mark Wahlberg's suit? Might be Mark Wahlberg's suit. Yeah, because he's all biceps, that guy.

Yeah, that's probably true, yeah. But, yeah, so they've been put in a sonario, if you don't mind me saying so. I do mind that, actually. You don't mind. And they have to escape within a certain amount of time because they have also been poisoned. And it is revealed, spoilers, 2005, that they all have connections to Donald Wahlberg

because he planted evidence on all of them. That's right. Except maybe one twist. That's what the big suit is for, evidence. It's filled with shonky evidence. Yeah, but I think the difference between this one and the original one is I don't care about any of these people. There's not a person

in this movie that I flinched at dying or had to put their hand in a weird box or whatever here's the thing though did you know going in spoilers for this movie that came out 15 years ago that uh Shawnee Smith Amanda the secretary from Becker did you know she was in on it at the time yes because oh no sorry not at the time but I barely remember watching this on DVD. Okay, right. Because I went in knowing that twist. Okay, right. I'm aware of that.

It's just soaked into my consciousness. So for you then it was more about the sortuations. Sortuations? Is that a new one or is that the same as the last thing you said? I can't remember what I've done. Okay. But yeah. Have you considered sawnanigans?

That's pretty good. Right, not bad. Let's do saunanigans. I feel like also they're not incredibly bright, and as it goes on, they're more poisoned, so they get dumber, which is also very unfair. Isn't it, though? Yeah, and it seems like a lot of the traps, though, are very simple

because one of them is like climb into a furnace, and there's like a, oh, yeah, because they need to get all the, the, um, the antidotes. There's a needle on a, on a chain and you just gives it a big yank even though he's climbed inside a furnace. Sure. Yeah. Let's just, let's just do this. Also like Jigsaw is famous at this point.

He'd have to be right. So if you're up to saw nanigans, if you've been forced into some saw nanigans, you'd be looking at everything. Do you know what I mean? You would be questioning every time you took a step, turned a doorknob, twisted your head a weird way because maybe you got a bomb in your ear. You don't know, do you?

You'd question everything before you cut in your own eye to get a key out of it. Oh, yeah, that was pretty grim, wasn't it? These are grimmer and more kind of shock value traps like the big pit of used syringes, et cetera. Oh, my goodness, yeah. Very unpleasant. So what they did with that, it was 120,000 syringes apparently.

And what they had to do, they had to remove all the needles and then replace them with like a fibre tip. And so that's how they get that kind of look. Like a felt tip. And then they're like, oh, this is leaving a lot of marks. We've got to replace all these again. We're going to do it again. We're going to do it again. We're going to do it again.

Yeah, but that's what I remember from this movie in particular. That's so grim. And I think in watching behind-the-scenes stuff, something that stood out to me is the sound design in this is great because when someone crunches into that pit and they're rolling around in there, it's just like, oh, God. It's very unpleasant. But I think you're right in that perhaps, and again,

I haven't seen all of these. We should also point out, oh, God, you know, it's very unpleasant. But I think you're right in that perhaps, and again, I haven't seen all of these. We should also point out, yeah, because we're kind of watching this insane universe unfold week to week. So I know people are like, well, actually, that makes sense and whatever. We don't know that at this point. That's true. We'll get to it, yeah. Oh, that's what I was going to say.

I wonder, you know, perhaps partly the decline of these movies was down to the fact that what we've got here is like a bunch of scenarios that could be solved by people on reddit scenarios yeah yeah that's right like i think at this point everybody would be like a jigsaw killer subreddit yeah and every trap would be finely detailed and people would you know go through them in a fine-tooth comb right and then every time jigsaw puts some people in one of his death traps at least one of them would be like a jigsaw killer expert at this point. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

And they would do it like they were doing an escape room. They could be like, okay, you're the numbers guy and you're the big picture guy and you walk around the room and see and make sure there's not just a regular gun. Yeah, absolutely. Test the wall to see if there's metal on the other side. Yep, there is. We're trapped in here.

We just had to check. He wasn't going to miss that but you got to check obviously okay now obviously uh we're looking at these monitors so we should make sure that this is actually live is the way we can do that because you know often tiredly at least once he's done the thing where we think it's live but they've actually been recorded absolutely did this happen earlier yeah yeah definitely yeah though i think he'd be like say those game of thrones boys where he's keeping up with the reddit and he's one step ahead, you know what I mean? He's like, they know there's a gun in the door, well guess what?

There's a gun in the floor. You move your head to the side and you get shot in the balls, you know what I mean? All these kinds of things are going on, but what I found interesting about this is a lot of these character backstories that weren't fleshed out were in extended stuff that isn't in this movie. Oh, like a comical book? No, just deleted scenes.

Addison, who's implied to be a prostitute in this, that's elaborated on more. Gus, whichever one that is, is an embezzler of money and apparently the glass box trap, you know, where you've got to put your hands in, that's symbolic for him reaching for the cookie jar. Because that's actually what I do like about this. These traps are specific to specific people in the house,

but it doesn't go that way like at all it's just anybody doing anything really they're just they're just running wild well that one in particular uh the woman who goes for that particular trap she receives the little tape yeah she just throws it away well she doesn't have the tape recorder yeah yeah but i'm wondering what would be on that the most i can imagine is is on that tape. They put it in the tape and it's like, now you want this syringe, don't you? Well, as you can see, the lock is on the back of the box. The key's in it.

Make your choice. Okay, I think I'll use the key, to be honest. Yeah, but I guess maybe he was counting on that point that they'd turn on each other. Maybe he's rooting for them. Maybe he's watching this going, good Lord, this was one of my easiest. I gave him so many clues. You can see the key on the back of the box.

You can see the key on the back of the box. I want to talk about Tobin Bell as Jigsaw in this because he does get a lot of time to shine in this. I mean, he's in the first movie a lot, but he doesn't do a lot, do you know what I mean? Because you don't know it's him until the end. But you find out about his origin with how he gets cancer and he has the car crash you also find out that he's like oh no no i never called myself jigsaw that was the press i merely

cut jigsaw shapes out of people and that went to represent that they were missing a piece of them that would make them whole and they they made the the jump to calling me jigsaw but i would i wouldn't know obviously that's going to happen, idiot. I want it to be called The Puzzler. I want it to be called The Rainy Day Surprise. That's right, yeah. Ooh, puzzles. And he even makes a comment of, like, I never murdered anybody.

Yes, you have. What about the shotgun trap from the first movie? That's a murder. What about the time you stabbed the guy with a blade in your wrist? Remember that? I mean, he didn't die, but I mean... Attempted murder. Attempted murder's pretty bad too.

Yeah. What I found very interesting about this movie also is that they rebuilt the Saw bathroom. Oh, yeah, I wondered about that also. So that's not... They didn't use the old set. That was demolished, presumably. It was an absolute, like, labour of love

and they're constantly shifting tiles and pipes to get it. I mean, I didn't look at that closely, but it seems like, yeah, that seems accurate enough to me, I guess. But what's amazing about this is, and I love this for, say, the original Star Wars movie, when you have to recreate an old shitty set, it costs so much more money to do this thing where at the time you just went, whatever,

just slap it together we've got we're very limited on time and money and then you have to be like we have to recreate the last homestead so we're going to get the tiling right and all these different things they don't make those tiles anymore so we've got to like get them custom made yeah exactly yeah as you mentioned though it was all it was all pre-recorded. It had all happened earlier, Ocean's 12 style, which was about stealing a Fabergé egg and holograms and fake and real Julia Roberts. That's right. It's a real situation.

So, yeah, all the murdering had already happened and it was revealed, as you said, that the receptionist from Becker is the new jigsaw. And there's also a moment where Tobin Bell's like, do you know what the cure for cancer is? It's immortality. No. There will be an actual, do you know what the cure for cancer is? It's immortality. No. There will be an actual cure, you know what I mean, at one point.

It's not that you create a bunch of traps and then somebody takes on your legacy. No, not Batman either. Like it's this legend living on. Also, he's so unfair because he's like, you need to sit down and listen to me, detective. You need to listen very carefully. I'm not telling you a story.

These are all clues. And it turns out that he said the word safe, which means that Donald Wahlberg's son was in a safe. In the room with him. Great. So if Donald Wahlberg had have said, oh, safe. So he's in the safe. Would Jigsaw have gone? Yes.

You got me, actually. Well done. Well done. Good work. Because then what's the lesson in that? Because also, the footage shows his son in a different location. But he said the word safe. Oh, okay.

Right, right, right. Insanity. Also, he did say, he said to the people in the house, he was like, the code for the safe is in the back of your mind. It's not. It's on the back of your neck. That's where it is. It's different, isn't it?

You might say I'm splitting hairs, but I disagree. No, I completely disagree. Yeah, he's not great at clues. He's better at weird boxes, isn't he? Boxes, yeah. Boxes and chains and ropes and et cetera and so forth. Did you find this like a satisfying conclusion, though, or a satisfying entry in the franchise?

I think I would have if I'd seen it at the time. Yeah. But again, it's one of these ones where I'm like, what's this guy all about? What's his son like? I don't think you're playing fair. Who's bleaching his hair? What's he up to?

Yeah. Yeah. Nah, fair enough. Do all these traps have a deep psychological meaning? Like is the one where the stairs collapse and the cop gets his leg broken? And the cage is electrified? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that guy like getting caught in that trap and he's like,

ah, I cheated on my wife. And Jigsaw's like, yeah, I got you. And I didn't murder you, just to clarify. You all saw it. I didn't murder him. But this, though, was a big hit. It outperformed number one, first saw. it was also in its first week of dvd release it sold over three million units making it lion's gates fastest selling dvd at the time and maybe ever because you know dvds now yeah that's not

what they used to be if you want the saw franchise you could you could you could rent it just straight out of a hot out of a red box couldn't you mason that's right yeah that's it'll shoot it out at you like like a lightning you could have gotten it delivered in the mail a la netflix exactly whenever that started and stops no it didn't stop apparently we've had letters about it people still doing it yeah absolutely and you can get all those episodes of bridgerton on dvd can you imagine anything else to say about this there's a lot of creativity in it yeah yeah well done on repurposing a script. It's gross as ever.

You know what I mean? It is gross. It's true, yeah. They'll make a gross house in the blink of an eye. I mean, it was certainly entertaining. Yeah. But, you know, obviously at this point when we watch all the subsequent movies, every time the movie starts I'll be like, the clue to get out is probably in the first room.

So they're all, it's been in the first room both times. Just the first thing you examine and go, oh, this is probably useless. It's probably the escape. It's probably how you get out. I don't know. Yeah, if he says something about you've got your eye on it or it's in your mind or you need to listen very carefully

because there's a key in your ear, you should pay attention to that. Oh, my God, there is a key in my ear. It's incredible. That's why my ear is bleeding so much. He jammed a key in there. Yeah, so things really open up, though, in my ear. It's incredible. That's why my ear is bleeding so much. He jammed a key in there. Yeah, so things really open up though in Saw 3 and Ben who edits this says it's kind of

like a nice wrap up to these first three. Oh, I see. And it kind of brings things full circle. Does that mean we're seeing the return of Donald Wahlberg? Oh my god. Can you imagine? Well, I don't want to spoil things but yes, that was a big deal at the time because Donald Wahlberg was like I can't, I'm too busy flipping these Wahlbergers.

I can't make another Saw movie. But maybe he does make a little reappearance in some other cameos you might know and love. My passion's getting grease in my hair. What's going on with his hair and Mark Wahlberg's hair? What do you mean? Different hairlines is all I'm saying. They're not the same person. No, I understand that, but they're the same blood lineage.

Okay, right. I don't know. I think Mark Wahlberg, he's on some Finistride. He's doing some transplants. I don't know what he's doing, but I'm saying there's a different hairline situation going on there. And if you're listening, any of the Wahlbergs, I don't give a fuck which one. Tell me what's going on in the difference between Donnie Wahlberg. Tell us the Wahlberg secrets.

If you could, yeah. Anyways, this has been Caravan of Garbage. We do this every week. If you want to see them early, go to bigsandwich.co. They go up a day early, along with a bunch of bonus podcasts, movie commentaries. Our podcast, A Weekly Planet, which normally comes out Monday, comes out on Sunday, the day before, doesn't it?

Nice, perfect. And though we are coming back for Saw 3, if you've got any suggestions, leave them below. We'd love to look at it. Saw 4? Yeah, probably at one point. Okay, great. Depending on how well Spiral does, doesn't it?

Oh, that's true. If it doesn't do well, these are sinking like a stone. Absolutely. We're putting them in a box and code to the box. It's in the box too. It's in your hands. Oh. It's literally a piece of paper I put in your hands.

Wow, that's terrific. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. I'll get on that. Thanks for watching, everybody. Grabbed our gem, you guys, and I was thinking of halloumi. That's the cheese I was thinking of. That's a squeaky cheese.

It's a very squeaky cheese. Also a curd cheese. Curd, that's pretty squeaky cheese it's a very squeaky cheese also a curd cheese curd that's pretty squeaky that'll squeak you right out yeah that's great i can't wait to roll in next week with your squeaky cheese goodbye goodbye everyone this podcast is part of the planet broadcasting network visit planet broadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates i mean if you want it's up to you our great mates. I mean, if you want. It's up to you. FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship

between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret. The other, a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+.