The Weekly Planet - Superman II: The Donner Cut - The Weekly Planet Podcast

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

It's nice to cap of the Christopher Reeve series of Superman movies by circling back to Superman II as it was originally intended. With all of the original scenes edited back into the film (with a few minor editions) and the removal of all the Richard Donner nonsense this presents as an entirely different film. It's a hint towards the Superman sequels we very nearly got instead of the...odd road we went down. Thanks for watching!Video Edition ► https://youtu.be/Ce_SOD7WfUMHelp support the show and get early episodes ► https://bigsandwich.co/Patreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesJames' Twitter ► http://twitter.com/mrsundaymoviesMaso's Twitter ► http://twitter.com/wikipediabrownSUBSCRIBE HERE ►► http://goo.gl/pQ39jNPatreon ► https://patreon.com/mrsundaymoviesT-Shirts/Merch ► https://www.teepublic.com/stores/mr-sunday-moviesThe Weekly Planet iTunes ► https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-weekly-planet/id718158767?mt=2&ign-mpt=uo%3D4The Weekly Planet Direct Download ► https://play.acast.com/s/theweeklyplanetAmazon Affiliate Link ► https://amzn.to/2nc12P4#Superman #DCComics Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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May 10. Tickets on sale now. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. The numbers are in, Mason. And people insisted that we come back and we finish off this Chris Reeve era of Superman movies by going back in time, reversing time around the world again. Again. Oh my God, there's so much reversing time, around the world again, again. Oh, my God. There's so much reversing time, isn't there?

There really is. Look, there's a lot of good stuff to say about the Superman 2, the Richard Donner cartoon. But, boy, he loves reversing time or going back in time, doesn't he? There is a reason for it, and we can come back to it at the end. But in the meantime, people can leave a like because that will remind me that I need to come back to it. If you've gone all the way to the end of this video and you didn't leave a like, go back in time.

Leave a like. Exactly. Or leave a like now. Just leave a like then. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant to us. But yeah, so great start to this movie in terms of the opening messages.

A lovingly dedicated to Christopher Reeve. This came out in 2006, just after the release of Superman Returns. Is that because there was a wave of nostalgia for Superman, or did they also find some footage or something? It was a combination of fans wanting to see it, a rabid fan base as it were, maybe not as rabid as a more recent... Hashtag release the Donner cut, people screamed in the streets

because Twitter wasn't as much of a thing back then, or at all. Yeah, so what they basically... Hashtag release the Donner cut, they would say. That's what they would say to each other in cafes. And then they would say the hashtag is that grid thing that you see on a phone, a touchtone phone. It's the kind of phones we have in 2006. A Nokia.

Yes. So what they ended up doing, Richard Donner wasn't originally going to involve himself. They were like, we're going to recut this. And he was like, great. I don't care. Okay. You know, I got fired after the first one.

They didn't let me finish the second one. I haven't had a hand in it since. So they started collecting all the reels. Over time, apparently, film has, like, moisture in it. So they had to bake them to dry them out. To dry out those film canisters, sure. And as a result of this, despite there being not really a budget whatsoever, there's 200 VFX shots which they completed or added,

but the idea was to make it not look like it's from 2006. And boy, doesn't it. That's true. It's very authentically not 2006. All the genes are up high, not very low. That's right. It's really, it's like basic compositing. Things in the late

70s early 80s were quite difficult but now there's like a chroma key switch on every editing software in the world and your phone and your phone exactly so no it doesn't look like it's from 2006 at all and it kicks off with with a recap of the previous movie and having been someone who watched that recently completely unnecessary what do you think well i mean i guess coming into this a lot of people might not have seen that movie in a long time correct i mean yeah so i get it okay i don't like it though but like you said though richard donner's genius confirmed you get it you get it but yeah so he did come back and he was very heavily involved in putting it together, and like you mentioned, I feel like it's a much better movie. Yeah, I went into this expecting it to be just marginally better,

or, you know, because people, you specifically told me it was much better. I'm like, he doesn't know what he's talking about. And I don't. So I went in expecting, well, I'm like, well, it'll be marginally better for the time, but it'll still be on par with 3 or 4 4 or, you know, it'll just be fine. And I was pleasantly surprised.

It's not like the Daredevil director's cut thing that people always talk about. Because Coolio's not in it. Yeah, they're like, the Coolio version is better. They're about the same. And I don't even hate that movie. This one has Method Man in it. It does. But the first thing I noticed in this is, first of all, it looks much better because all of the footage that was reshot that Richard Lester did,

and we talked about this in the previous video for Superman 2, that's all scrapped. And so all of those weird scenes are removed. And, of course, we get the reintroduction or the reinclusion of Marlon Brando as Jor-El. That's right, replacing Lara, who was in most of the Krypton stuff. Krypton. Most of the Krypton stuff. Krypton. Most of the Krypton stuff in the original Superman 2, yeah.

I guess if there was one... Look, I don't want to harp on about Marlon Brando specifically. Yes, you do. I've said all I need to say. He was an activist and he did a lot of good things, but also he did a lot of terrible things. And all in all, if you added it up, probably more terrible than good. Okay.

I haven't calculated it. How do you even assign a numerical value to being terrible for most of your life? And you've forgotten about the island of Dr. Moreau. That's true. Which tips it right over back to positive. It certainly does. But what I wondered about when Lex Luthor went into the Fortress of Solitude, there's no consistency with the hologram of Marlon Brando

because sometimes it's like a full body. Sometimes it's just a big floating head. Sometimes it's a floating head. Sometimes it's got no colour in the face. Sometimes it's got colour. Sometimes it's shoulders up and it's like slowly moving towards you. Sometimes it's all shoulders. You're like, who's this guy?

What's his head? Who am I talking to? Also, I think there might be some consciousness in this because my understanding of this machine prior was you would say a thing and it would anticipate your response and it would say it back, which means that Jor-El had the time to sit down and just think of every possible response and just say it, I guess.

While he was neglecting his wife, basically. Or to build a slightly bigger rocket for everybody. Lara, I'll be in my crystal man cave do not bother me i have some talking to do until i presume a crystal microphone and crystal camera it might be one unit yep yeah anyway man cave rules don't bother me but there is a moment where you know superman's like i want to give him my powers because i love having sex and whatever i'm sure there's other reasons because he's sick of it and we'll talk about it. But there's a moment when he's being depowered and you see Marlon Brando's face

and it just gives like a bit of side eye to Lois Lane. And I'm like, does he know that she's there and involved in this in some way? What's going on here? And then at the end, he walks out and he touches Superman and, you know, he gets his powers back. There might be a sliver of him actually in it. Maybe. Maybe.

Or is it just vague 70s and 80s sci-fi nonsense? Maybe he's secretly stowed away on the ship and he's been on Earth for years. He's like, I don't want to get involved with my kid, though. I just pretend I'm giving voicemails to him. It's whatever. It's fine. You might be right.

But this version, of course, does have an explanation as to why, if you recall the previous version of Superman 2, when he becomes depowered, he changes out of his Superman suit into just a shirt and slacks. Yeah. And in this version, changed earlier. It changed earlier. Makes more sense.

Yeah. It's weird, though, because. It's just the little things. It's the little things, but it's also, it's recut in this version that Superman can have sex. Nice. It's the little things, but it's also, also it's recut in this version that Superman can have sex. So, and also. Nice. Yeah, no, what I'm saying is, I don't understand why he couldn't do both.

Because all he's done is put himself at a massive disadvantage and he has to drive everywhere. Like he could, he could still do both. And he does often. Like he lives two lives. Yes. Anyway, whatever. He, I mean, he learns his lesson pretty quick. Again, once again, he really does.

Yeah. Within the first couple of days. Yes. Anyway, whatever. I mean, he learns his lesson pretty quick. Again, once again, he really does, yeah. Within the first couple of days. But what I did like about this, even though there are laughs in it, it is played less for laughs. Yeah, and there's better dialogue and better banter. I think there was better banter between Lex Luthor and his henchwoman, Miss Tessmarker. And she gets some good lines in as well. Whereas I think the previous one, it was meant to be like, well, Luthor gets all the good stuff. Yeah,essmarker. Tessmarker, yeah. And she gets some good lines in as well. Whereas I think the previous one, it was meant to be like,

well, Luther gets all the good stuff. Yeah, that's right. And yeah, you're right. And there is more of him in this. Also, you see the three Kryptonians are played more as a threat and not more kind of like bumbling. What's happening? You know, with the bit where they're blowing up the town,

the way the music kind of comes in, it's a serious situation. blowing up the town, the way the music kind of comes in, it's a serious situation. Non is less like, like he's dangerous. Yes. And he also doesn't have weird growling sound effects like put over the top of him. You know what I mean?

There's none of that. So like his stupidity is just stripped away. He's just kind of a brute at this point, which I appreciate. It's also, I feel, the action is better because a lot of the stuff, I think, was either cut out or kind of redone of what they had. That fight in the city, it just feels and looks better. There's some new inclusions where he hits

the famous Metropolis Statue of Liberty, which we've talked about. And if you enjoy men being thrown through wonderful brands, then this fight is absolutely a lot better. It's all here. Much improved. Oh, my God, Coca-Cola. Thank you.

Thank you, Coca-Cola. Thank you for your service, Coca-Cola. Even the wind machine, which went for a really long time and was played for laughs in the last version, it does feel more in this like they're doing damage, though there is still the inclusion. Of the red vest guy. Yeah.

Sure, sparkly red vest man. Though he does get less play. Yeah. So I assumed that was a Richard Donner addition. Do you mean Richard Lester? Probably Mason. One of the worst Richard of the two Richards. So you assumed that that was the result of one of the Richards,

but it actually turned out to be the product of another Richard. A different Richard. And that's much better in your opinion. Yeah, I completely agree. The other thing I like about this is there's more Lois Lane because watching the movies after Superman 1, she has less and less to do, in particular the third one where she's just not really in it.

She goes on a holiday for 98% of that movie. That's right. So you get some more Margot Kidder dialogue and interactions, which I quite liked. We get two different scenes that were not in the previous version in which she figures out who Superman is by scribbling Clark Kent over the top of a picture of Superman in the newspaper.

And then a different scene where she reveals she knows his identity by shooting him with a gun. Yes, that's right. That was something that they would have reshot at the time, but it's actually two different shoots, and you can notice that because he's wearing different glasses and has different hair in between shots in that. That's true, he does, yeah.

So that was like test footage. I like how they just couldn't find another similar pair of glasses. But I feel like if they did that now, they would have CGI fixed all of that, right? Yeah, and it would have looked worse. No, I don't know. I mean, if you look at what they did with Rise of Skywalker and Carrie Fisher, they changed her entire outfit and hair and the background. Like, it's very much possible.

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and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. That Coca-Cola sign. The sign, yeah. But I think... I'm proud of what I've done with the rebellion and I'm proud to die by the real thing. But I do feel like that scene is still weird and doesn't really fit.

The characterization of both of them is a little bit off because it does very much feel like early days. She shoots him with a blank and he falls for it, but you don't feel like you can't tell whether you're being hit. Yeah, look, to be generous about that scene, my assumption there was that when he gets shot, it means nothing to him, You know, with real bullets. Sure.

So he's just like, well, I've been shot again, like I'm always being shot, so I can't feel it at all. Yeah, okay, sure. That's fair enough. But there is some more additions that they shot around the time of this release to complete it. The moment where Lois throws herself out of the building, where you see Clark Kent kind of lean out and go,

Lois, what are you doing? That's a stand-in, uncredited. Ah, okay, right. And there's another moment at the end. It is astounding that they took that scene out. Like a fully produced, fully special effected scene. But they had to, I guess, for the Richard Lester cut. And then they added the Niagara Falls

and then the bit afterwards where they're in the weird hotel. Sorry, I'll rephrase. It's amazing that they filmed a new scene in Niagara Falls given that that scene was bad. Yeah, fair enough. And then there's a moment also, there's an addition at the end where Lois Lane is at a typewriter thinking about what kind of story she's going to write.

That's not her. It's clearly not her, which I think is kind of fascinating. Or the hands are not hers at least. I'm pretty sure none of it's her. Look, it's neither here nor there. He still kills Zod, though, and that's what's important. My understanding was in this version that the Kryptonians were arrested. Not the case.

I mean, they still could be captured. Yeah, I don't know where that scene comes from. I guess it's from a TV version that we didn't get to. I guess so. Here's a miscellaneous note that I thought of. Terrence Stamp's very funny in this. Yes, he is. He's got a dry wit about him, and I think it comes across better in this version of it. Yeah, okay. No, I cannot argue with that.

He's a good Zod, and an even better Chancellor Valorum. Okay. Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace? Nah, I've never seen Star Wars. Oh, okay. People will think you're joking, but you're 100% not joking. Isn't that right? That's correct.

Yeah, yeah. But there's a few things at the end that are inconsequential regardless, because killing the Kryptonians or he doesn't. He also then explodes the Fortress of Solitude. Yes. Which I guess speaks to the fact that there's nothing there for him anymore. It's just a big crystal room at this point. That's true.

His father's not in there or he died in the explosion because he was hiding out there. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But then regardless of all that, there is this bittersweet moment between him and Lois where he's like, look, we can't be together because i can't do both things which is you know i think we've seen in a lot of times in superheroes and then of course he rolls back time which means the the kryptonians go back into the uh into the phantom zone yes she forgets who

he is and i guess the fortress of solitude returns I guess well it seems to me that he has the ability to uh selectively reverse time on different things because if you recall at the end of the movie he does go back to the diner and he fights and he beats up the man who beat him up earlier in the movie who seems to remember him I forgot so it seems like he just reverses what he wants and he's like no no I'll let that guy remember who I was because hitting him for no reason would be cruel. I don't think so. I would have been okay

with it. So maybe he left the Fortress of Solitude exploded. Yeah that's a really good point that I'd never considered that. But the thing about this ending is though the reason they did the reverse time thing is because Richard Donner, the good Richard of the Richards, he was originally going to save the reverse time thing for the end of this movie. And it was added to the first one.

So initially they were like, how are we going to wrap this up? What are we going to do? We hate the magic kiss. Yes. And then they went, well, look, this is what we were going to do anyway. So let's let's just do it. OK, so this wasn't a case of had Richard Donner had his way with all the Superman movies,

he would have just had a reverse time at the end of all of them. Yes, exactly. Okay. And I guess also it's implied that Lois might still know that he's Superman. Yeah, because Perry White and her and I think Jimmy have a certain sense of deja vu after the events of the day. She calls him super. That's true.

Which also means... She makes him get a pizza, a supreme pizza. Is that what she said? Yeah. I didn't realise that. You're picking up on a lot of things this time around. That would mean also, and I think this is the way it should be viewed,

this flows more directly into Superman Returns than the other version does. Because if she does remember, that would explain why she has a super kid. Because otherwise, that's a very strange situation that she finds herself in. Yes. Inexplicably, you might say. Inexplicably. You would say that, wouldn't you?

But also, if you reverse this situation, it's inexplicably you'd be saying, in the hospital while delivering a baby, that you don't remember conceiving. Yes. But that also means that if he reversed time and she was still pregnant, again, that's a thing that he just let ride. He goes, no, look, I'll keep the guy in the bar. He'll remember. I'll keep the baby.

And we're just going to move forward. Maybe there were some conversations in between then and Superman Returns. One would hope. Yes. But I've got a little bit of a trivia for you, Mason. Go on. So just a couple of things. It's the segment, a little bit of a trivia. A little Mason. Go on. So just a couple of things. It's the segment, a little bit of a trivia.

A little bit. Just a little bit. Just a fraction. Just a slice. Just a smidge. Just a smidge. So there's a guy. I like the slice of a Suprema pizza.

It's a good pizza, maybe. So there's a guy in the diner who looks exactly like Stanley. And there's been speculation for years. What's Stanley doing in this movie? How dare he? What's he up to? Scoping out the out the competition i guess he is yeah uh that's sabotaging the film sets getting in the producer's ears hey here richard don is not a very good director you should replace him with someone bad uh that's actually a man believer that's a man called

celsius kick him out who is it uh that's a man called Bill Hibbert. It's not him, though he does. I looked it up because I went, is that fucking Stan Lee? Like I had to double check and now it isn't. And the other thing is Lobot or John Hollis from Star Wars, a movie you haven't seen or a series you haven't seen, he is one of the Kryptonian councilmen. So there you go. He's also in some other ones, Superman movies, different characters.

One of those British actors who are in a lot of things, assuming he is British. So the thing is. Go on. Richard Donner after this. I watched some making of stuff. And he lamented that one of his big regrets about this series is. He couldn't make the Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder Superman series.

That he would have liked to have made. And this is like a little kind of step towards that direction. But of course by 2006. None of those things would have liked to have made. And this is like a little kind of step towards that direction. But of course, by 2006, none of those things would have been possible regardless. But I do wonder what would have the Superman sequels looked like if he had have just been able to hang on to it. Because having watched this and the original Superman 2 that was released, all the good stuff in that is from this.

Yes. This is the reason that movie works on any level. I agree. I think it also speaks to the performances of Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeve, who by the way appear in Smallville as different characters, which is a nice little homage. That despite them being in not very good movies

after this, there is an enduring legacy for these characters in these movies, despite best attempts to make the worst things imaginable. Maybe not imaginable, but do you know what I mean? There was a lot of people getting in the way of these being much better than they should have been. Yeah. It's a shame.

But then, James, what if this was a world in which they'd put that Kojak cameo in the first place? Oh, my God. Would have changed the game. Yeah. Anyways, all in all, fun trip down memory lane for you for Superman movies? Yeah, I had more fun than I thought I would. Okay, good.

Again, you know, I don't think they all hold up. No. Unsurprisingly. But, you know, the charm of the leads, you know, Reeve Kidder, Gene Hackman, they all shine through, I think. It was nice to end on a high for these movies, really, to circle back to one that doesn't look like complete shit and is more coherent.

It felt good to do that. And I know a lot of people have said, there's a Supergirl movie that exists in this universe, and that is true. But I don't really want to face that right now, if I'm honest. And also, there is Supergirl coming up in the next Flash movie, so we will probably come back to that at some point. Perfect opportunity.

Give us some time to breathe, yes. If you could. If you bloody well could. But also, as we mentioned last week, we have done Superman Returns as well, if you do want to check it out. So now we have six Christopher Reeve-esque and Brandon Routh Superman movies that you can work your way through. Five, six. Six movies. Six videos. Yes. Reeves-esque and Brandon Routh Superman movies that you can work your way 5, 6, 6

movies you can work your way through, 6 videos and big thanks to Ben for editing all of these as well, how's he done it editing skills and tools, tools of the trade, software, yes Microsoft Windows properties, no, maybe an Apple Mac what's he on, what do you think?

I reckon he's on one of those, remember those iMacs you know they have the coloured back, like you get an orange one or a green one or whatever. I reckon he's working off one of those. One of those from 2001. Yeah. He's that good, isn't he? Yeah. Good on him.

Anyways, this has been Caravan of Garbage. We do this every week. And some people often like to know what's coming up next. Well, guess what? Here's a hint. So people can, you know, watch that if they want to see what that is, can't they? Yep. Yeah.

Cool. And also, if you do want to see any of these early, if you go to bigsandwich.co and sign up, it's like our own little subscription service, isn't it? There's bonus podcasts. There's movie commentaries. There's all kinds of stuff. I agree. And also we have a podcast called The Weekly Planet

where we talk movies and comics and TV shows. That comes out every Monday. We do the news of the week. We do a topic swing by. Maybe we'll talk about Superman. Yeah, we recently did one on Superman and Lois, the TV series. That's right. It's good to see Superman, isn't it, Mason?

It really is. Superman you can believe in. Yes. And a brand I can believe in. Coca-Cola. We're saluting Coca-Cola. We are. We've got a big neon sign in the studio. Alright, off we go. Goodbye. Grab that gem, you guys.

We'll see you next week. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want. It's up to you. FX's The Veil explores the surprising and fraught relationship between two women who play a deadly game of truth and lies on the road from Istanbul to Paris and London. One woman has a secret,

the other a mission to reveal it before thousands of lives are lost. FX's The Veil, starring Elizabeth Moss, is now streaming on Disney+.