The Weirdest Thing I Learned This Week - Science of Elden Ring, Walmart Entomology, Architectural %&@*-Measuring Contest

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

This week, Rachel explores Walmart for new insect species, Jess divulges the science behind Elden Ring's corpse wax, and John talks about New York City architects hiding spires in their buildings to one-up each other. The Weirdest Thing I Learned This Week is a podcast by Popular Science. Share your weirdest facts and stories with us in our Facebook group or tweet at us! Click here to learn more about all of our stories!  Links to Rachel's TikTok, Newsletter, Merch Store and More: https://linktr.ee/RachelFeltman  Link to Jess' Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/jesscapricorn Special thanks to Quelaag, Zullie, and Trina for their work on Elden Ring lore connections! -- Follow our team on Twitter Rachel Feltman: www.twitter.com/RachelFeltman Produced by Jess Boddy: www.twitter.com/JessicaBoddy Popular Science: www.twitter.com/PopSci Theme music by Billy Cadden: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LqT4DCuAXlBzX8XlNy4Wq?si=5VF2r2XiQoGepRsMTBsDAQ Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeek Check out Weirdest Thing on YouTube: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeekYouTube If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeek Thanks to our sponsors!  Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to https://BABBEL.com/WEIRDEST Babbel—Language for life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's code Weirdest for 20% off. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Hey, Weirdos. Rachel here. Before we get into the show, I just have a couple of quick and exciting announcements. First of all, I'm going to need all of y'all to mark your calendars and save the date for August 24th, because we are having a live show, not just a live streaming show, but one with actual people in the audience, which we have not done since before the pandemic, and I am really, really excited for.

It'll be in New York City at our favorite venue caveat, and masks will be highly encouraged. But for folks who either can't attend live live event or who don't live anywhere near New York City, we will also be selling streaming technology. We'll have more info on that soon, including a brief and super exclusive discounted ticket sale period. So definitely keep an eye out and an ear out for more information. Ear out. Do people say that? Anyway, air to the ground. Eyes open.

Full hearts, get loose. Our other news, which is no less exciting, is that weirdest thing is now available on YouTube. So the next time you're binging lofi beats to study to, hop on over to at Popsie, that's P-O-P-S-C-I. and you can listen to the latest weirdest thing. Even if YouTube isn't like your primary spot for listening to podcasts, which if it is, like thank you for putting up with us not being on YouTube for so long. But even if it's not, it would really help us out if you could scurry on over there and, you know, give us a little thumbs up, leave a comment, subscribe, reply to a comment.

I don't know, do all the things you do on a YouTube video that you like because it'll help other weirdos find the show. Okay, that's it from me. And now it's time to get into the show. Thanks for listening, Weirdos. At Popular Science, we report and write dozens of science and text stories every week. And while most of the stuff we stumble across makes it into our articles, we also find plenty of weird facts that we just keep around the office.

So we figured, why not share those with you? Welcome to the weirdest thing I learned this week from the editors of Popular Science. I'm Rachel Feldman. I'm Jess Bodey. And I'm John Kennedy. John, welcome to the show. And Jeff, welcome to this side of the mic. for the first time in a while.

Yeah. It's been a while. I'm so glad to be back. Yeah, thanks for having me. Listeners, of course, pretty much all of you should know that Jess is our incredible producer. Stop. And John is a DIY editor at Pop Sci and has been on our sister show Ask Us Anything before. But this is your first time on weirdest things.

So welcome. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well, let's get into it. So on the weirdest thing I learned this week, we start by each offering up a little tease about some kind of fact or story that we found in the course of reading, writing, reporting, et cetera, and decide which one we just absolutely have to hear more about first. Then once we've all had time to spin our little science yarns, we reconvene and decide what the weirdest thing we learned this week actually was. Jess, what's your tease?

Okay, my tease is that there's a thing called corpse wax. And I first heard about this in some of my favorite video games, and it turns out it is a thing in real life. Oh. It's terribly exciting. I'm excited. I'm terribly excited in every sense of the word. John, what's your teeth? Yeah, so I learned that back when the early skyscrapers of New York City were being constructed, there was some drama.

about did they have secret mechanisms inside them to make them taller when their opponents got taller? So that's what I'm going to be talking about. So it sounds intriguing, old-timey, and bad shit crazy. So can't wait. My tease is that I'm going to talk about a bug that hadn't been seen in decades showing up at a Walmart and then getting identified over resume um wow what a 2023 fact it's a really it's really set in a particular time and place um indeed i can i can get started with uh yeah okay great please do please do so um okay set the scene it's 2020 and um michael skivarla who's the director of pen state insect

identification lab has the unenviable task of leading an insect identification lab course over Zoom. Entomology 432, to be precise, insect biodiversity and evolution. And it's just like a prerequisite course already, like not the most thrilling academic ride, but it's 2020 and it's happening over Zoom. So just that's the tone. his students are at home using Loner microscopes and he is going through his own personal insect collection on the screen

and demonstrating which features he used to identify them when he labeled them and put them away. So according to some of the students, Sceivarla was describing the insect he'd labeled as an antlion which is a dragonfly-like creature known for having these very predatory larvae that most people call doodle bugs, which is deaf. But it's not an ant or a lion.

It's a dragonfly. Yeah. I'm, yes, exactly. Yeah, okay. So doodle bug. And then he just kind of like froze because he was realizing live on Zoom that that is not what this was. It was way too big.

So he's told the class, you know, we're going to just reclassify this right now together, get some real-life identification lab experience. And in a couple of minutes, they had come to a pretty surprising conclusion. So it was actually polystochotis punctata, that may not be correct, but I give it my all. Sounds good to me. Which is, thank you. Yes. A member of a family of giant lace wing insects that have existed.

for at least 100 million years. I will pause here and say that a lot of news outlets and the college press release in the defense of those news outlets referred to the giant lace wing as a, quote, Jurassic era insect. But the co-author of the study about this bug, J. Ray Fisher, who is from the University of Missouri and based in Fayetteville, he pointed out that this is a bit of a stretch. this is one of about 60 species with an evolutionary lineage

that can be traced back to a common ancestor that originated in the Jurassic. It's also important to note that it's only giant in relation to other lace wings, which are smaller. This specimen has a wingspan of like two inches.

So this isn't some massive prehistoric bug that's been missing since the days of the dinosaurs, which a lot of headlines seem to suggest. I will say I saw this new story going around and that is, I was like, how did we miss this for so long? If it was so big. That is what it seemed like.

Yeah. And it wasn't even missing at all technically. You can still find it in the Western U.S., but it's been considered extirpated, that is to say, regionally extinct in most of the country since 1950. So if you look at the map of their recorded sightings, in the end of the airings, in the 1800s, you'll see like a few on the East Coast. And in the early 20th century, there are like a handful around the Midwest. But by the mid-century, the only sightings are way out west. And it's not entirely clear why that happened. Most experts think that increased air pollution, increased light pollution, and then invasive species drove them out. So, okay, now that I, now that I hedged the fine thing.

Yes. This is still exciting and not just because it was identified over Zoom. So not only was Skavarla's specimen from Arkansas, which is hundreds of miles east of any member of the species has been found in for more than a half a century. But he also casually scooped it up from the facade of a Walmart in an urban area of Fayetteville. And this was way back in 2012. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, and yeah, so he says he remembers it really vividly. This is back when he was a doctoral student in Arkansas and he was walking into a Walmart to get some groceries and he saw this giant insect on the side of the building. And he thought it looked cool. So he put it in his hand and he did the rest to his shopping with it like between his fingers, which is definitely like a total entomology. Big time. Just carried around some bugs.

That's hilarious. And then he brought it home and he mounted it, meaning killed it, unfortunately. But please remember listeners, before you freak out, the most insects have lifespans, like, counted in the weeks. So, like, it's a nearly victimless crime. Anyway, so he mounts it for his collection and labels it as what he thought it was and forgot about it for almost a decade. And, you know, at the time, he was. not at all an expert on the lineage that this insect was actually a part of. And he still isn't now, but just this very serendipitous moment of looking at it on screen

with a bunch of students and all of them being like, wait a second, and him happening to Google the right thing based on like a hunch and them all being like, oh my gosh. he did then go on to confirm its actual identity with DNA. So it is definitely this giant lace wing. And yeah, the big question now is whether there are more of them around. Because it's possible that the Ozark Mountains near where this Walmart is have some pockets of like hitherto unknown giant lace wing populations. It's also possible as Fisher, the study co-author who helped identify it, has pointed out to the press that the bug just hitchhiked on a cross-country Walmart truck. There you go.

Yeah. But the fact that they aren't sure is like largely due to how little the Ozarks have been studied, especially given that there are many indications that it's like quite the biodiversity hotspot. So it kind of doesn't matter whether this particular bug actually represents an unknown pocket of this species that disappeared for reasons we don't understand. Though obviously whenever there's a species that disappeared for reasons we don't really understand and it shows up again, that's cool. but it kind of doesn't matter because the point, the nugget to take away here is like, gosh, we really should be looking for more stuff over there. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. And yeah, just the reminder that like insects are so abundant that even just like one you casually pick up in a parking lot can end up being scientifically significant. So like just imagine what is out there to. be studied and explored, you know, in the Ozark Mountains, not just to the Walmart parking lot, but also maybe in the Walmart parking lot. I was just going to say, what can I find in my local Walmart parking lot? Who's to say?

Exactly. That's the takeaway here. It's time to engage with the wonder of the natural world in your Walmart parking lot. Nature is everywhere. And yeah, it's also a reminder, you know, this is something we talk about a lot of weirdest thing. but like old collections can hold a lot of new discoveries. And it's like actually kind of an awesome thing that he sort of quickly and incorrectly mislabeled this because it created this really serendipitous situation of like a bunch of grad students getting to have the thrill of discovery over Zoom during a very bleak time. That's true. Yeah. I would really cling to that if it were maybe. Yeah.

Yeah. So I really, I truly love this story. Even, I think like, I'm almost annoyed that the thing that the press release like overblue and that other media outlets have run with like even has the potential to like taint it and have people be like, oh, well, it's not that cool. I'm like, it is really cool just for not. not for those reasons. It also made me think of one of the two high schools I went to was Arthur P. Schellick High School in Pittsgrove, New Jersey. And it was like literally in the middle of a field, like rural school. And we had these really, really freaky-looking centipedes or millipedes of some kind. And everyone at the school had agreed that obviously these bugs were something freakish that had evolved in the high school and existed nowhere else.

I now strongly suspect that it's not the case. But like there was this bug that there was like a thriving population of in the high school that none of us like saw in our houses nearby. And that just happens. It's like bugs just like settle down. They breathe. And they're like, why would I cross the field to go somewhere that's not this gym full of stinky socks, which is what I want to be. That's fascinating to think about, little microcosms. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. So many little microcosms. And yeah, it's also, it's also a reminder of like how much the biodiversity of the U.S. has changed in like a really short period of time. In doing their study on this insect, the etymologist did kind of like a historical review of sightings of it to kind of like figure out how weird it was that it had showed up in Arkansas. And they found descriptions of like giant lace wing swarms in North America. they won in Ontario in 1903 that townspeople actually mistook for like smoke coming out of a building because there was such a big terrifying.

Terrifying. Yeah. Simply terrifying. And then in upstate New York in 1885, a naturalist wrote that like you could see hundreds of them sitting on parlor walls in the right season again. My goodness. I'm not really not my cup of tea. But yeah, they have just gone. And I think it is really important to remember that, like, we have shaped the biodiversity.

Totally. Of the places we live so, so much. But yeah, that's all the info I have on this little bug. You know, I'm sure some hobbyists and researchers will be prowling around the Ozarks looking for some more. Jason Bateman is on the hunt for the lace wings. And but yeah, for now, I think this is just such a delightful little slice of life science story. So I hope listeners enjoy. I'm sure they did.

I did. I did. Good. You've inspired me to start digging around in the New York City subway. There you go. Oh, my God. Speak of a microcosm. One thing they've almost talked about a weird thing a few times.

and I've never quite put together a story on. There are like subspecies of mosquito that only exist in the London underground. And I suspect there must be something similar in the New York City subway. There's got to be. Yeah. Again, like there are so many little microclimates and ecosystems that like are just begging to be explored. Totally. But yeah, you know, the next time you're hanging out at the Walmart, keep an eye out for any

ecologically significant bugs. Eyes are peeled. Snap a pick. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with some more facts. Did you know that there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door?

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I'm eyeing mood.com's delta-9 THC buttercream caramels because in addition to not being able to have THC, I also can't have dairy right now. So the idea of having a caramel that also me me out and sends you to Dreamland sounds very nice. And speaking of fun edibles, mood.com has Delta9 THC freezer pops. So if you're looking to try some new cannabis products, head on over to mood.com. Get 20% off your first order now with code Weirdest. That's code Weirdest for 20% off. You said this place was steps from the water.

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Book on Hilton.com or The Hilton. app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. Okay, we're back and Jess, um, fill me on on corpse wax. Corpse wax, yeah. So the first time I became like aware of the corpse wax thing. Sometimes people call it grave wax instead, but there was some I noticed it was I was playing the critically acclaimed masterpiece in a video game called Eldon Ring. I'm sure many of you have heard of it if you're at all in the gaming sphere. It came out last year in February of 2022.

Many of us, quote unquote, gamers haven't stopped playing it. When I wrote this script, like last week, the DLC had not been announced and now it's announced. So all of us are freaking out. It's a great time to be a gamer, I have to say. And yeah, if you haven't heard me talk about it here on weirdest thing before, I do a lot of content creation around games. I'm a streamer on Twitch.

And when Eldon Ring came out, I streamed it for pretty much four months straight. Like, couldn't get enough. And still, I do still stream it now. I just started a no-leveling challenge run. It's just a good game. And there's so many little lore tendrils, as we will get into. So Eldon Ring is this gigantic RPG or role-playing game. So you do create your own character.

And you roam around this fantastically rich open world. You fight bosses. You level up. You get armor and weapons and all this fun stuff. And you can design your build pretty much however you want. Like maybe you're a sorcerer and you're just cast in spells. Maybe you want to be like a Dex build who uses katanas, like two katanas. Or maybe you're like me.

I prefer the big, beefy, colossal weapons. My go-to, my favorite in all of Eldon Ring is something called Giza's Wheel. And it sounds frightening. It's frightening, but in a good way. It's also known as the pizza cutter. It's like a huge giant like serrated wheel on a stick. And if you use the special power, it spins like a buzzsaw. It's very fun.

But yeah, but yeah, okay, corpse wax. Something that the developer of Ellen Ring, which is a company called From Software, something they're very good at is world building and lore and storytelling. And I like that they don't just like spoon feed it to you. They, you know, they tell these very deep, complex stories just through the environment. So first, they did it in games like Dark Souls and Bloodborn, and they've done it again in Eldon Ring. So when you explore the world, you often will read item descriptions to understand what the heck is going on. Because a lot of times it's like, things happen.

You're just like, well, that's weird. But like learning what's going on in these games is so rewarding because they make you search for it. because you're just unraveling these stories one little piece at a time. And Eldering is by far the most massive of their games. Like there's like 10 different plots that all kind of spin together in one way or another. And at least one of those stories has to do with the corpse wax. So there is this area of the game called Landell, the Royal Capital. And as the name suggests, this is this big city kind of in the middle of the map.

And as you explore it, it's kind of clear some tragedy has gone down. It's like pretty deserted. the folks you come across are pretty hostile. And then a lot of the buildings are just sealed shut. And around some of the doorways, this like orangey yellow, ooey-goey substance is oozing out. The first time I saw it, I wanted to eat it.

It looks delicious. Let me eat the gooey cower. Listen, it's appetizing. You know what it reminded me of when like you leave a fruit roll up in the car and I kind of like the mouths. Yeah. I don't think that this, this goo is probably delicious

because I think it's the corpse wax. So in real life, corpse wax is a thing. And it happens when a body should decompose, but it's in an area with like very little or no oxygen at all. And then a little too much moisture. And that is the perfect storm

for a process called saponification. So basically, Yeah, and maybe, I think we've probably touched on that here on Weirdest Thing once or twice before. I think you mentioned the bog. Yeah, when I talked about bog bodies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turning into soaps. Exactly, exactly, yeah.

So this anaerobic bacteria that, you know, anaerobic is, you know, they don't need oxygen to live. We'll kind of go to town on the corpse's body fat. And then it, like, sets off a bunch of chemical reactions that turn the body's fat into the soapy-waxy substance called, I don't know how to pronounce this. Edipasir, which is like Latin for corpse wax. It starts off all ui-goo-y, like we see Naldon Ring. But then it turns hard and brittle, and that can kind of like seal the corpse in and preserve it. So it's definitely like an archaeologist's dream. And it's like there are these things called soap mummies that people have dug up.

Like they're just preserved from the corpse wax. So there are two really famous ones. ones that were exhumed right here in the U.S. They were dug up in Philly and a cemetery in 1875 when they're doing some city improvements. They're moving some graves around, which always is like a red flag. You know, I've seen poltergeist, but, you know, I digress. So they dug up these two folks and realized something fishy was going on and that they had like the super strange like gray, waxy coating and that they were like very undecomposed

based on how old they were thought to be. And they sold their clothes on. They had like buttons on their shirts and stuff and everything. And the buttons are important. They could actually tell one of the people was a lot younger when she died. They thought she was older because the buttons on her clothes, they thought like she had died in the 1792 yellow fever epidemic, but her buttons weren't made to the 1830s.

So this saponification corpse wax situation is very good for scientific research. And yeah, so those two were kept intact for a scientific study. They were given the very creative and wonderful names of soap man and soap lady. Soap man. That's a dumber for them. I know, I know. Soap man's at the Smithsonian. I don't know if he's on exhibit, but you can see soap lady at the ever wonderful

Mudder Museum in Philly. Oh, yeah. Great place to be. Yes. I went once. And I consider myself, you know, a very tough person with a strong stomach. And I got a little woozy in there. I did have to leave and get some air.

It's a cool place, though. I do recommend going if you're ever in Philly. But yeah, other soap mummies in 1986, people found a headless body, totally encased in corpsebacks, just floating around a bay in Switzerland. And I guess he drowned in the 1700s. And then he sunk to the bottom. And then down in the sediment of this bay, he became a soap mummy. But not his head. No, I was just going to say, like, we don't know.

We don't know what happened to his head. It kind of has like sea creature vibes, but Sure. Maybe foul play. I don't know. And then, yeah, also back in the 1700s, it was also a problem for Parisian city planners as they were trying to move bodies again, you know, all these grave movers from the Paris Cemetery of Innocence.

And they're moving the bodies into these abandoned mines beneath the city. Yes, they were creating what would become today's famous Paris catacombs. Oh, wow. Yeah, but they had trouble because, like, you know, a lot of the bodies had become soap mummies and the corpse wax was like messing with the soil. So it was like hard to move things around. And then the bodies were like preserved. So it was like hard to move the bodies because it wasn't just bones. But yeah.

So the two friends scientists that like were called to figure out what was going on there for Croix and Toure. I'm maybe pronouncing those wrong. They studied the corpse wax and because it was the first time I had really been seen in at least in their circles. they named it that name, the adiposaire. And it comes Latin from adepts, fat, and sere wax. So, you know, that's where the name comes from. But the last little tendril of history with corpse wax that I'll bring up is that there was a dude in England, Augustus Granville, who was studying an ancient Egyptian mummy back in 1825.

And it was actually thought to have been the first autopsy of a mummy. But, you know, he didn't know what this waxy stuff was on this mummy's body. so he just kind of scraped it off, used it to make some candles, let the candles to illuminate the mummy as he showed it off and lectured about it. Rude. Yeah, yeah, the own body wax turned into candles. Definitely that the gentleman Egyptologist of that era were just disrespecting the person, many persons.

Yeah, yeah. And using every part of the mummy for, for swag. So I'm not surprised that he made corpse waxed candles, but I can't imagine that they smelled good. I can't imagine either. Yeah, it had to been gross. Like, could he just not have gotten regular candles? Like, what was the deal? I don't know. It was just that they were so the, like, fetishization

of that culture. Like, you know, they were like making paint out of mummies. They were like eating mummies. That's right. I'm, sure it was more about like the fact that he could make a candle out of part of a mummy than it being a good candle or necessary candle yeah you're so right um but yeah so corpse wax is real many stories of corpse wax in our world's history but you know why an elden ring is it just oozing out of buildings there are a couple of theories uh i won't get too deep but i'll briefly discuss them because i can't stop talking about aldeering great thank you one thought is that maybe there's some kind of plague in this capital city where you find the corpse wax.

And the city like sealed people inside their buildings. And that could have made, you know, some kind of environment. Like maybe they died in there. And then there's no oxygen. Maybe there's some moisture. And then they kind of all liquefied or at least made some corpse wax that was oozing out of the buildings. The theory that I like is much more entrenched in the actual story of Eldon Ring.

Because like death in this world isn't really a thing. At least not in like the traditional sense that we think of. And everybody is just kind of like reborn. and nobody's soul is really getting put to rest anywhere. Because normally when you die and elinuing, your spirit, supposed to go back to this huge giant tree. And that's actually like how you, quote, unquote, die. But because you can't die anymore,

some folks just, like, crawl to the roots of the tree and kind of just chill. Like, please, can I, can my soul return? Please, maybe. No more. Yeah. And that, to me, kind of seems like a corpse wax situation, you know? Like, I don't know.

And, you know, where is this huge giant tree? it's smack in the middle of the city where the buildings are oozing with corpse wax. I think maybe that has to do with why there's so much ooze everywhere. But there's corpse wax elsewhere in the game too. It's used as a tool to mend weapons together and like also graft to like living beings together. So if anyone's played, a lot of that stuff has to do with gargoyles. The gargoyles are kind of like plants in Eldonering. It's kind of weird.

Like in real life, you know, grafting is a real thing where you can attach a brink. branch of a plant to the body of another plant and then create hybrids and variants. For complicated lore reasons, a similar thing is done with the gargoyles in Eldon Ring. And then there's the boss named Godrick. You know, he's called Godrick the Grafted because he's sticking arms and stuff on himself. Yeah. Anyway, I'm wrapping up, but Corpse Mac shows up the other games too. The same developers that made Elen Ring also made another excellent game called Sequeuro.

And the undead beings in that game can drop an item called a lump of grave wax. So that makes sense because if these people are undead, but kind of undecaying, like maybe they're preserved by a kind of corpse wax. They are also found in very watery areas. So, you know, I appreciate that they take the science into account there. Yeah. And also it's in Pokemon, which I love.

The new Scarlet and Violet Pokemon games, there's a new Pokemon called Graveard. I think that's how you say it. It's a cute little ghost-type dog and it has a little candle on its head. maybe a corpse wax candle? Who's to say? It does have an item occasionally called Graveard wax. And it's supposed to be like a crafting material to make TMs, a k a little machines that teach your Pokemon a new move.

So yeah, that's my tail on corpse wax. I love when games and media in general do scientifically accurate little tendrils in the story like that. It's one of my favorite things ever. I do want to say big thanks to some other content creators who help me connect the dots on one like Trina Quaylag and Zuli the Witch. There's lots of details in Eldon Ring and they do a very good job of tying everything together and I'll link to their socials and stuff in the episode description of website.com slash weird along with my Twitch channel if anyone ever wants to hang out and hear me wax poetic. Oh no. You're welcome for that one about science and lore in Eldon Ring and other

games but yeah that's my that's my story on Corpse Wax. I love it. It really made me want to play even though I'm bad at you can do it. You can do it. I know I can do it. But should I do it? Yes. I will at some point. Yeah, I'm a sucker for world building

and for like stuff you had to piece together. It's the best. Yeah. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with one more fact. Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts

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No one goes to Hank's for spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks Copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs. To help him see if he can afford it. Co-pilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now, Hank says, line out the door.

Hank makes the pizza. Co-Pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365Copilot.com slash work. Okay, we're back. And John, tell me about some fights between old. timey skyscraper filters. Yes, for sure. All right, so allow me to transport you back to June 1930.

You're in Midtown, Manhattan. It's the early days of the Great Depression. Herbert Hoover is president. And the Chrysler building, the world's tallest, is hiding a well-kept secret. Or at, well, at least that's what the people raising the Empire State Building several blocks away are getting really, really concerned about. So, all right. One of these skyscrapers will claim and hold the skyscrapiest of titles for the next four decades,

but the past few years have been marked by a grueling back-and-forth slug vest of design changes and height increases, as several New York City structures and their developers duked it out on paper. The Chrysler Building, which is designed by William Van Allen, is open. Its height is set at 1,046 feet. Right. Nearby. No, take back, the... No.

The nearby, the Empire State Building, pride of architectural firm, Shreve, Lamb, and Harman is expected to surpass it. But can those developers of the Big Apples, soon to be biggest building really, really be sure that their rival won't hoist a stealthy spire at the last moment to maintain their spot atop the New York City skyline? Can they really be sure? Who knows? Yeah, maybe not. I don't know. So you can almost imagine the Empire State Building bigwigs standing there in their partially constructed building, maybe on the ground, hands on their hips, squinting a half mile to their northeast, muttering Tom Waits style. What's he building in there?

How mysterious I'm obsessed. Yeah, also, I really don't think enough people reference the Tom Waits classic, what's he building in there often enough? So thanks for that, John. That felt like a gift just for me. Yeah. That's all I could think about when researching this. So to understand their worry and their concern, you have to go back a little farther in time

and understand exactly what the 1920s were like for people who enjoy buying land, digging a hole, and piling a bunch of stuff in it until their stack of steel, drywall wires, and whatever else is really, really tall. So at the time Such a way to describe building development. I love it, go on.

And I've built buildings, so like I know what I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, sure. I've also dug really deep holes at the beach, if that comes. An expert. Up and down. So at the time, the Eiffel Tower was the tallest structure in the world at 984 feet. And lower Manhattan's woolworths, Woolworth's. building was the tallest building at 791 feet.

I don't even know what that building is. I don't know either. Yeah, got lost the time, even though I'm pretty sure it's still. Yeah, that's just suck. So Van Allen, who's the eventual architect of the Chrysor building in the early 1920s, he was working with H. Craig Severance, a man the New York Times called, quote, his polar opposite in style and personality. Severance was a charmer.

Van Allen was an apparent introvert. They've been business partners for years, but all that fell apart after a trade publication praised Van Allen's creativity and snubbed severance. The two ended up in an old-fashioned architect's duel where instead of brandishing swords, pistols, or bare-knuckle fists, they simply hunched over desks trying to figure out how to erect a rigid tapering edifice that was taller than the one built weather guy they didn't like. Oh, good old B. Measuring contest, baby? Yeah, subtle. Very subtle. So Van Allen got started first, signing on to design a 40-story building at the Chrysler Building site.

This eventually became 54 stories, then 63, then 68. At about the same time, Severance was busy working on 40 Wall Street, a tower in New York City's financial district, that's now known as the Trump building. Back then, though, it was the Manhattan Company building after the banking company that was headquartered there. Incidentally, the Manhattan Company was founded by Aaron Burr, a man known for a different kind of duel. Oh yeah, Hamilton. Yep. It all comes together. Everything in New York City is related to everything else.

So early on, 40 Wall Street was shorter than the Woolworth Building and the under-construction Chrysler building, but Severance and his bosses eventually boosted its plant height to 840 feet, which exceeded all others. The fight was on. Walter Chrysler, head of the car manufacturing company that bears his name, likewise got Van Allen, his architect, to increase their structure to 925 feet, retaking the theoretical lead. In turn, 40 Wall Street was revised to 927 feet, which is where it stands today. Severance claimed victory, but Chrysler and Van Allen weren't done. I like to imagine the two of them learning of 40 Wall Street's height, shrugging and saying,

it's just two feet. Yeah, like, it's just two feet. That's not too much. but unlike the early rounds of this heavyweight brawl, the Chrysler developers decided not to respond with yet another public height revision. This time they opted for subtlety. Van Allen commissioned a lengthy spire that would permanently place his rivals building below his. The final piece.

The spires. They always, there's always with the spires. Yes, it's the one way to make sure that you are taller by just adding stuff to the top. That's like when I played volleyball and they wanted to like beef up everybody these heights, you would put your hair in like a high bun and then they would measure your height over your bun.

That's the, I, that's, it worked, you know. That is amazing. That is a fun fact. I never knew. Well, I don't think everybody does that. You know, it's a little frowned upon, I would imagine, but, you know. So Van Allen commissioned a lengthy spire that would permanently place his rivals building below his.

This final piece was built inside the Chrysler building itself, at least somewhat out of sight, until it was ready to be assembled. So sneaky. That's wild. Pop-Sai actually covered this at the time. I looked back in our archives. I guess they built some of the spire outside and then lifted it up and then dropped it inside the building

so they could finish working on it. Oh my goodness. So that's a cool. Yeah, being sneaky. Yeah. But finally in October 1929, an 85-foot crane on top of the structure reached deep into the bowels of the building and hoisted the spire out, kind of like a magician pulling a rabbit out of his head.

Oh, I feel like I know where this is going. Were they worried that they just have like a telescoping and fit a spire down there? Essentially, that is essentially where this is going. So once they pulled the spire out of the guts of the crisis building, assembly reportedly took less than a day and when it was done the building stood at 1,046 feet which was easily the tallest structure in the world

Yeah More than two feet Yes does far more than two feet So but to be fair to 40 Wall Street That building did open a day or two Before the Croissah building in May 1930 So it may have technically been the world's tallest open building For like a really short time

But all the fame and renowns certainly went Chrysler and Van Allen. Sure. And they were built, they were built kind of like at the same time. So it's, unless you were like out there measuring specifically, it's not really certain like whether either one of them passed each other on the way up or, or any of that. So at this point, I know I haven't said much about the Empire State Building, but in the scheme of things, it was a relatively quiet spectator until Chrysler raised that spire to

victory. To continue the dueling metaphor, the Empire State Building should. showed up while the other two were trading blows and decided, I can beat both these guys, but just kind of held back until one of them was the clear victor. Oh, wow. So, yeah. So one month after Chrysler's spire was riveted in place,

the Empire State Buildings developers, John J. Raskob and Al Smith, updated their structure to reach 1,050 feet. I hear you saying, in your heads, uh, or out loud, uh, Four feet.

And I'm sure the two. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure the two Midtown Manhattan skyscraper camps were saying the same thing. Raskob was legitimately afraid Chrysler might hide a rod in the spire and stick it up at the last minute to retain the title of World's Tals Building. Oh, my God. And according to Neil Baskolm's book, Hire, Historic Raysley. the sky and the making of a city. Someone published a cartoon around the time this building height, fight was going on.

And the cartoon featured a lanky architect that kind of looked like Van Allen and a building that kind of looked like the Chrysler building. In it, the architect was explaining that his structure secretly held a spike that extended the length of the skyscraper and that if anyone built something taller, they could just jack up the spike and still be the tallest. I'm just picturing people like duct taping more spires to get like the extra five feet they needed. Yeah. That's that's DIY and I can endorse that.

Yeah. I have to say I looked up the Woolworth building and it's definitely prettier than the Empire Sea building. The Chrysler building is the prettiest of them all. So I think like, you know, we have to ask ourselves, like, the Chrysler building achieved that height and also is really cute. And that's worth a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Van Allen was known for his creativity and kind of thinking outside the box.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I read something that was that sort of that said he didn't really pay attention or read any of the like architectural. about what his contemporaries were doing because he just kind of wanted to do his own thing and not be affected by what everyone else was doing, which is a vibe I can certainly get behind. I know that both of you have seen my occasionally chaotic DIY solutions to things. Which I love, by the way. So that is, I don't know if the listeners care to know, but I once hand drilled through a piece of metal with a drill bit in a pair of vice grips because I did not have.

the correct tools. I do not endorse this. All I recall is the mac and cheese in a bag. Yeah, that was something. The only mac and cheese I could not eat. Yeah. Please don't. No one should do that, but you should all read my suffering.

Wow. I love old-timey fights. Yeah, I want like a Hamilton-style musical about this or like some kind of cheeky movie with like Leonardo DiCaprio in it and like I don't know I just think it's yeah like how has nobody made something about this yeah as Lerman's take on this it would be great oh my god I need it now

yeah so there was all this secrecy and concern about Chrysler's Spire and like he did it once before who's to say he's not going to do it again right right this was really not outside the role of possibility and the Empire State Building didn't want to take any chances. So in December, 1929, a couple months after Chrysler's Spire went up, the building's plans were changed again for the final time

to include a 200-foot metal crown and a 22-foot mast that was meant for mooring airships. Even without the mast, the building would still be 1,200. Yes. What in Tarnation? It's still there, too. but no airships actually moored to it because the winds are too high. Just kind of a, they were like, oh, our spire will be useful for airships,

not like the Chrysler building spire, which is just pointy and meant to be tall. But nobody ever used it for that. Flexing the utility. Yeah. Yeah. It's mostly just antennas now. But even without that antenna mast, the Empire State Building was still 1,250 feet. way bigger than the Chrysor Building and then the mast jacked it up even farther to like

1,400 feet, which is where it is now. And despite Raskub's concerns, Van Allen never unveiled a secret height boosting rod inside the Chrysor Building. Or at least they haven't yet. Right? They're still time. I didn't do the math to find out if doubling the height of the Chrysler Building would make the tallest building today.

I have no idea. I wonder. Maybe I should do that. Listeners, tweet at us. Do the math. I can't. I'm a journalist. I can't do that math.

So the Empire State Building had the Empire State Building had the title of the world's tallest until the First World Trade Center passed it in 1970. But still today, the Chrysville Building is the tallest, still today the first building is the tallest, steel-framed brick building, and I think that counts for something. Yeah. Also, it's prettier, like you said. Yeah. I agree.

I've seen the Birchleafet in person, and it made me nauseous just to look at it. Oh, my God. I cannot imagine. I really think, just standing there looking up at it, I was like, oh, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. So I think there is something to be said about a building that's impressively tall, but, like, chill. Yes. Yes. Must we go higher.

That's how I'd like to describe myself, impressively tall and chill. So yeah, I sort of feel like the pinnacle of like beautiful skyscrapers reaching great heights was probably this era of the Chrysler building. And then after that it's just been like make them tall. Yeah. And yeah, it's really, so, you know, sometimes I look at really top of the legs and I'm like, nope, what has to be rot? Yeah. Zero temptation to go up to the top. Absolutely none.

And I don't mind heights, but listen. Context is important. You're not supposed to be at a, be staring at a glass window from that height. It's unnatural. Anyway, what was the weirdest thing we learned this week? I really enjoyed the measuring contest personally. I also really enjoyed that. I think it's a great historical tale that I honestly can't believe I haven't heard before.

So, yeah. John, congratulations on your win. Thank you. I did not know this was a contest, but I am glad to win. It's a great strategy. The weirdest thing I learned this week is produced by all of our hosts, including me, Rachel Fultman, along with Jess Bodey, who also serves as our audio engineer and editor extraordinaire.

Our theme music is by Billy Cadden. Our logo is by Katie Belloff. If you have questions, suggestions, or weird stories to share, tweet us at Weirdest underscore Thing. Thanks for listening, Weirdos. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story.

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