The Weirdest Thing I Learned This Week - The Truth About Quicksand, Release the Tea Kraken, Learning Without Brains

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Charlotte McDonnell (aka coollike on Twitch) joins the show to talk about a very British energy scandal! Plus, producer Jess Boddy does a segment on if quicksand can really suck you down into the ground like it does in the movies, and Rachel explains how creatures can learn without brains. The Weirdest Thing I Learned This Week is a podcast by Popular Science. Share your weirdest facts and stories with us in our Facebook group or tweet at us! Click here to learn more about all of our stories!  Links to Rachel's TikTok, Newsletter, Merch Store and More: https://linktr.ee/RachelFeltman  Rachel now has a Patreon, too! Follow her for exclusive bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/RachelFeltman Link to Jess' Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/jesscapricorn -- Follow our team on Twitter Rachel Feltman: www.twitter.com/RachelFeltman Produced by Jess Boddy: www.twitter.com/JessicaBoddy Popular Science: www.twitter.com/PopSci Theme music by Billy Cadden: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6LqT4DCuAXlBzX8XlNy4Wq?si=5VF2r2XiQoGepRsMTBsDAQ Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeek Check out Weirdest Thing on YouTube: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeekYouTube If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: bit.ly/WeirdestThingILearnedThisWeek Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door? I'm talking about mood.com. They have an incredible line of cannabis dummies and a lot more. And you can get 20% off your first order at mood.com with promo code Weirdest. It's third party lab tested and ships directly to you in a discreet box. Best of all, everything's backed by Mood's 100 day satisfaction guarantee. And like I said, you can get 20% off with code Weirdest. So if you're looking to try some new cannabis products, head on over to mood.com. Get 20% off your first order now with code Weirdest.

That's code Weirdest for 20% off. No one goes to Hank's for spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks co-pilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs to help him see if he can afford it. Co-pilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice. work. Now Hank says a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Copilot handles the spreadsheets.

Learn more at M365 copilot.com slash work. At Popular Science, we report and write dozens of science and tech stories every week. And while most of the stuff we stumble across makes it into our articles, we also find plenty of weird facts that we just keep around the office. So we figured, why not share those with you? Welcome to the weirdest thing I learned this week from the editors of Popular Science. I read. I Rachel Feltman. I'm Just Bodie and I'm Charlie McDonnell. Charlie, welcome to the show. Yay! Welcome, welcome. The intro really makes me feel like I'm on the squad. That was so fun. You are on the squad. Come on. Absolutely. Charlie, thanks so much for coming on this show. Listeners, I probably can't talk about like all the stuff I know Charlie for without like really dating myself and

and hearkening back to just like a very different time in my life and my fandom participation. But Charlie, why don't you tell me about all the cool stuff you're doing now? I love it. If the idea that you, like, watching me, like, early YouTube era, like, dates you, like, what does that say about how old I am? We are contemporaries, and unfortunately, on the internet, that makes us ancient. Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I have been doing internet stuff for a very long time, did YouTube for a very long time over 12 years, took a break, came back more recently. These days, I do a lot of Twitch streams and things like that. Yeah, making YouTube videos too and do some screenwriting stuff as well. But I feel like, yeah, most people these days will probably still know me from the ancient YouTube before times when I was known as Charlie and so cool. Nice, me. Amazing. Well, we're super psyched to have you on sharing some weird stuff. And Jess, happy as always to drag you over to this side of the soundboard. Oh, yeah. I'm back, baby. You never left, literally.

True, true. I'm always lurking. So let's get into it. On the weirdest thing I learned this week, we start by each offering up a little tease about some kind of fact or story that we found in the course of reading, writing, reporting, streaming, etc. And decide which one we just absolutely have to hear more about first. Then once we've all had time to spin our little science yarns, we reconvene and decide what the weirdest thing we learned this week actually was.

Except not really. I decided we don't pick winners anymore and it's fine. We all win. Jess, what's your tease? My tease is I'm going to talk about quicksand. Why was it so popular in movies? Where is it gone? and is it real?

Great question. Where has it gone? I can't wait until you. I know, it's weird. Charlie, what's your teas? Oh, okay. My tease is I'm going to talk about British people and tea and the funny impact that it has on the UK electrical system.

Fascinating. Yo. I love it. All right. My tease is that jellyfish can learn from their mistakes. even though they have no brains, which begs the question, what is my excuse? So, um, where is while we begin? Um, shall I dive in with jellyfish perhaps?

Please. Wonderful. Please. Um, while I was researching this fact, I kept thinking of this quote and I thought it was from, um, Lebanese Nicket's book of weird, macabre little quotes. but then it turned out to actually be from Welcome to Nightvale, which I think is a, there's a fair intersection of topic there. But anyway, it is, there is a thin semantic line separating weird and beautiful,

and that line is covered in jellyfish. Love that. Very true. So just set the mood there. But before we can talk about how jellyfish learn, we have to talk about the fact that they have no brains. Absolutely none. head empty, not even a head, but if they had one, it would be empty.

And if you're thinking of like the human brain as the archetype of the brain as a concept, you're probably not surprised to hear the jellyfish have brains. It would look pretty freaky if they did. And that's something that I'm thinking about now. That is something I very much like want to see a picture of now as well. That sounds like a freaky image I want to say for sure. Yeah, that would be a... It'd be very alien.

Yeah. It feels like a great, like, B horror movie sort of alien creature would be just like a jellyfish with a brain wobbling around in there. Makes me think of Metroid. Yes. Yeah, 100%. That's like what it would look like if it was a jellyfish with a brain. Yeah. But, in fact, a brain is really just a cluster of nerve cells that control the body they're in.

And exactly what that cluster looks like can vary a lot, especially among invertebrates. most of which have brains, but like very small, simple ones. They're often very simple structures that are just called ganglia, but most animals have some kind of centralized nerve structure, aka brain, even if it's like, you know, a leach, which like has like one cluster of nerves in their front and then another one in their butts. And that's, those are brains, you know. Bud brain?

Yeah, yeah. So like when somebody talks about like a tentacle or a tail having a brain in it, that's what they mean. As a kid, I always was like, you're telling me, you're telling me they got they got a brain just stuck on that tail. And but what that refers to is, you know, a cluster of nerve cells such that it can be a command center of stuff. And so yeah, that can look all different ways. It can be in multiple parts of the body. It does not. have to be in the noggin. Some animals don't have noggin. Some animals are just tubes. Anyway, jellyfish are some of the only animals that lack this structure entirely. Others include sea cucumbers, sea urchins, coral, and, you know, like other marine creatures that are known for like their deep intellectual pursuits. Basically, these are very simple, chill guys, and it's maybe not so shocking that they have not. not even the simplest version of what we could call a brain. Jellyfish actually have two nervous systems instead of a central nervous system.

So they have a large sort of like net of nerves that controls their swimming. And then they have a smaller nerve net that takes care of feeding, a spasm response, which is basically like curling up into a ball if shit happens. And literally everything else, a jellyfish might. be want to do that smaller nerve net handles. And that's super interesting, not just because, like, wow, animals in all of their magnificent forms, some of them don't even have nerves that cluster together the way they're supposed to. But also because jellyfish and their close relatives are some of the oldest sort of animal lineages. They date back 500 million years. So a lot of

the best studies we have on like the evolutionary family tree. suggest that jellyfish and other, you know, squishy brainless things from the sea may represent kind of like one of the oldest forks coming off of the ancient ancestor from which all multicellular things came. So we love looking at them because other than being kind of freaky and beautiful and weird, also there's this idea that maybe they hint at like what the like you know her nerve cell situation was obviously things change a lot in 500 million years it's not like oh what's going on in the jellyfish must be just like what our common ancestor had but it's a good sort of case study and like working backwards and then trying to

figure that out and yeah i saw one researcher rebecca helm who works at woods hole oceanographic Institute, which is a place where most of the exciting marine stuff happens. She said that jellies are like the original computer networks with little servers all along the margin of their body that they use cooperatively, which I thought was a really nice way of explaining it. So they have this, yeah, they have this net of cooperative nerve bundles that all talk to each other. And they have like some pockets of centralized nerves, but there's no master controller.

So that's a really good thing if, say, a sea turtle comes along and, like, bites off part of the bell, which is, like, you know, the body of the jellyfish. Because there's no way for a predator to take a chunk out of the brain because there's no brain. It's all just nerve slurry. And goo. Yeah. Yeah, you can really, you can get a real chunk taken off of the main part of you. and you've just lost a few of your servers and the other ones can pick up the slack. But we already know that despite this relatively bizarre nervous system situation,

some jellies have managed really complex behavior, relatively speaking, given like their total brainlessness. So box jellies, for example, are known to have a pretty complicated courtship ritual. The females have to catch the males in their tentacles and then eat sperm. packets that the males spit up. No. There's coordination. There's coordination.

There's four thought. I mean, maybe four thoughts too strong of a word. But like plans have to be executed, you know. And some studies even suggest that jellyfish require sleep, which is kind of an open philosophical question. We've talked about the mysteries of sleep on weirdest thing before. Nobody really knows what it's for. But our best guess is that it's like a cleaning or rebooting.

mechanism for the brain. But when researchers are studying sleep, because it's so poorly understood, it's one of those things where it's like one of the questions for them to ask is like what is the lowest common denominator of sleep? Like what is the core of like what we mean when we say something is sleeping and how many aspects of it that we think are crucial to sleep like can be stripped away and it's still like the same fundamental mechanism happening. Well, you need a pill, and you need a duvet. And if the jellyfish don't have those and they're not sleeping, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So the researchers knew that the jellyfish had some like circadian rhythm patterns and they were really interested in seeing like, can we demonstrate that they are snoozing in a way that we can comprehend? And a study said, we think yes. And some other people were like, we think no. but it's ongoing. Point being, like, jellyfish, they've got a lot going on in there, which is surprising. And in this new study, researchers showed that the Caribbean box jellyfish can actually learn from experience with no brain required.

So when I'm saying learning, there's basically two types of learning that become really important when you're talking about, like, animal cognition studies, because you can show that. that an animal can do one kind of learning and not necessarily show that they can do the other. So non-associative learning is stuff like habituation. So it's like if you poke an animal a few times, it'll eventually stop like shying away because it's like, I've learned that you poking me is not going to lead to you hurting me. And associative learning is much more complicated because that means an animal has to like connect different cues in its environment. Pavlov's dog is a classic example of that because the dog connects bell to feeding and starts salivating at the sound of the bell.

So yeah, non-associative learning is just either responding to something more or less. If you're responding to it more, it's called sensitization. You know, in humans, if you like hear the same sound over and over, you might tune it out. or you might be like, I can't ignore that sound because it is everywhere and it's happening all the time. But that's, you know, not really what we talk about when we say humans have learned something. And that's important because scientists have known for a while that animals in the phylum that includes jellyfish and sea enemies and corals and nimmines. Always gets me. They can do things like sensitization and habituation.

They can respond to stimulus. So that it's not that it's no big deal. It's still like it, you know, it shows that there's like somebody's home in there, as it were. But it's not what we would call learning or at least, you know, it's a much more rudimentary kind of learning. And not many experiments have tried to demonstrate associative learning in really simple animals. And some researchers say a lot of that is like due to. sort of bias in, you know, in that scientists assume that these animals aren't going to be capable of it. And then also just sort of the difficulty of creating an experimental protocol. I saw multiple articles where researchers used the comparison that like you can't judge a fish based on its ability to climb a tree. Right. Which is also also something that my friend who's really into unschooling says a lot. So yeah. But it's true for people. For people, and for animals. So, like, researchers in one study, I want to say this was on sponges, but it was

definitely on one of those simple ocean critters. And they were trying to get it to learn stuff, basically using like electrical stimuli, like giving them a little shock to try to teach them to avoid the shock and like adding some additional information in there so that it would be more complex than just the more fundamental learning I talked about earlier. But they were like, shocks aren't something they encounter naturally in the ocean. So it's like maybe not fair to judge their ability to learn based on their ability to learn from a shock. So all that is to say, it's really hard. And luckily, these researchers decided they were going to try to make it happen with the Caribbean box jellyfish, which is the size of a fingernail, adorable.

Wait, that's how big a box jellyfish is? There are different kinds of box jellyfish. You're thinking of, yeah. I was like, I thought they were large and in charge. But is that the Australian one I'm thinking of? There are definitely large and in charge box jellyfish species. But this is a tiny one. And they are known for being very poisonous, which I think this box jellyfish also has some potency.

Sure. But it's so tiny. Okay. Yeah, the little babies. Of a problem. Yeah. But they do have 24 eyes. What?

Whoa. No way. Again, not, they don't look like our eyes, which again would be so free. That would be so scary. I'd love to see it. But they have visual sensors that are arranged in clusters around their body. And that helps them perceive the world. And they have, they seem to perceive the world with a really impressive amount of visual detail

because they live in these underwater mangrove roots in the Caribbean Sea and the central Indo-Pacific region and it's very murky and they have to like dart around these roots and like hunt and not be hunted within these murky roots and so researchers are like okay so clearly with these 24 eyes they are accomplishing some pretty impressive sensory and cognitive stuff so let's see if we can show that they learn from visual stimulus because their hypothesis, was basically, we don't think it would be feasible for them to navigate these waters unless they learned how to respond to different visual stimuli that they, you know, encounter in these murky mangroves. And so they designed an experiment that also, again, they were trying to make this like

using skills that would make sense for this jellyfish to have and to use for learning. So they know that these jellyfish have an instinct to protect their bell because it's like the bulk of them. And they also know that they navigate these really cloudy, murky waters. So they put them in tanks that they painted with three different levels of contrast. Some had these like very high contrast black and white vertical stripes, which they meant to represent like tree roots in the distance. There was a medium contrast, which was gray and white stripes. And so that they wanted it to be like an optical illusion of tree roots that were like actually very far away or like not actually tree roots. And then they had a solid gray, just no contrast, full murk.

And in the tank with the black and white stripes, no problem. They never bumped it to the walls. They didn't need to learn anything. They could see that there were some tree roots there, so to speak. in the gray tank they bumped into the walls willy-nilly and they learned nothing they're just like what the heck is up with this wall that I keep hitting into but in the tank with the gray and white stripes they gradually learned to associate the decor with a risk of collisions they started out bumping into the tank walls and these trials were like seven and a half minutes long and by the end of the trial they were successfully not bumping it to the wall. And they said they were like really impressed that it only took three to five bumps for the jellyfish to be like, okay, yeah, no, staying away from those. That is oppressive. Yeah, yeah. So I'm now just like imagining a bunch of researchers just like around these tanks.

Yeah, you go jellyfish. Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. You know it. So the researchers then took this a step further. They wanted to look closer at those centers. of vision that make up 24 eyes. These are known as ropalia, and there are four of them, and each one contains visual neurons and six eyes, air quotes. So, you know, that's how you get your 24 eyes. And so basically they took some ropalia from the jellyfish and put them in a petri dish, and they gave the cells a little electrical pulse, which was supposed to be a stand-in for the jellyfish bumping into a mangrove route. And while they did this, they were exposing them to images of a moving gray bar to, like,

represent that you're approaching this mangrove roof and then like zap, you have hit it. Right. We're all just electrical meat. Yeah. So when they just did the like, here approaches a mangrove route. root, nothing happened. But when they added in the electrical shock, the propalium started to generate high-frequency electrical signals, the kind that would promote obstacle dodging in a jellyfish. So this was suggesting that this structure, which like serves as like a little

miniature like visual brain processing center, might also serve as a learning center because you're, you're getting this feedback and the nerves are just doing it for themselves. Yeah, so obviously there's a lot more work to do to really understand what's going on in a jellyfish non-brain. But it's a great reminder that intelligence can be so different from how we experience it and even how we observe it in animals that are similar to us. And the researchers involved in this study are really excited because they think that this implies that individual nerve cells can learn. So, you know, maybe when we're talking about muscle memory, we're talking about nerves learning.

Yo, that's interesting. Yeah. And it definitely reminded me of that time a couple years ago when some researchers put brain cells in a dish and taught them to play pong. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. So maybe even without our brains, we could learn. learn from our mistakes and learn how to play Pong and isn't that thrilling?

Poetic. For us. Didn't they do something with slime molds once? Like, didn't they teach them how to fear or something? Right. So slime molds, I almost looked up stuff about slime molds to add to this because you're right. It feels so similar.

Slime molds are able to, like, find their way around obstacles and, like, remember places they don't want to go. That's right. Like if you put something nasty there, they'll be like, we have sung of this for generations of climate and we dare not go to this place. Yeah. That's how I imagine it works. Totally. Because they're so weird.

They're like single cells, but like one thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're one very smart cell. Yeah. So yeah. I think where I'm actually, I think my next book is going to be about. intelligence. That's right.

Heard it here first. Yo? No, you haven't. I've been working on it for a long time. I personally heard it here first. Thank you. Yeah. And yeah, I love thinking about just all of the ways that brains and nerve cells can be so different from the way we think of them as working. And like when we talk about animal intelligence when we talked about alien intelligence it's like we really have to go back and and kind of fix so much bias we've baked in about just like what it even means to learn and to think so yeah if listeners if you want to keep up on my project about intelligence and whatever

it might become you can now follow me on patreon so check me out there you'll find me just by searching my name. So easy. That's the secret. Yeah. Great. Plug. Done. Nice. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with more facts. Did you know that there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door? And talking about mood.com, they have an incredible line of cannabis gummies and a lot more. And you can get 20% off your first order at mood.com with promo code weirdest. I'm not a smoker myself, but I do love the occasional weed gummy to, you know, help me go off to Dreamland. And I can't have one right now because I have a new kit. And, you know, I definitely miss it a little bit. But maybe you can have a

weed gummy. And you can get one at mood.com. So the reason that different cannabis drains can make you feel different ways isn't just about the THC. It seems like it's also based on other components called terpenes. Turpines influence how a product tastes and smells. And it seems like they can also impact the way you feel. Mood partnered with dozens of small American farms to custom cultivate flour with specific turpine profiles designed for specific moods. So you can choose your cannabis gummy, edible, flour, or pre-roll based on how you want to feel. Just go to mood.com and click Shop by Mood. And yes, it is now 100% federally legal to have really great bud shipped right to your door.

It's third-party lab tested and ships directly to you in a discreet box. Best of all, everything's backed by Mood's 100-day satisfaction guarantee, and like I said, you can get 20% off with code weirdest. I'm eyeing mood.com's delta-9 THC buttercream caramels because in addition to not being able to have THC, I also can't have dairy right now. So the idea of having a caramel that also me mellows me out and sends into Dreamland sounds very nice. And speaking of fun edibles, mood.com has delta9 THC freezer pops. So if you're looking to try some new cannabis products, head on over to mood.com. Get 20% off your first order now with code weirdest.

That's code weirdest for 20% off. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room.

Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes.

At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Okay, we're back. And Jess, why don't you draw us in? Oh. And hold us there. That was nice. That was great.

Thank you. Thank you. And then we can fall through to the secret part of the tomb underneath. Exactly. That's how it works. That has to be. Finish the episode there. Yes.

That has to be in some Zelda game or something, isn't it? I feel like it must be. But yeah. So speaking of the quicksand being in Zelda, it used to be everywhere, right? Like, it was every 10-year-old's worst fear in the 90s. Like, you know, you're just living life, walking around and then bam, you're sucked into quicksand, right? Like when I was a kid, I had that fear.

It was definitely more of a thing. Yeah. And like... Was it Legends of the Hidden Temple? that made it more of a thing? I don't know. We'll get there. We'll get there. And yeah. And it's not like, you know, like I grew up in suburban Illinois. Like, it's not like I'm in the wilderness entountering mud and quicksand. But, and you know, there's all the myths and the classic instructions of like don't move. The more you move, the faster you'll sink. And personally for me, I feel like I had this fear because of like the Princess Bride in 1987, like that, you know, I've talked about fire. swamp on here before. And in that fire swamp, there is also the quicksand that just like sucks you right in. And as I was researching quicksand, it's also in 1984's never-ending story. It's in many of the older Mario games, but not as much today. Also, apparently it was in at least

three episodes of the soap opera Days of Our Lives, at least three episodes, which is hilarious to me and I kind of want to go scope those out because it has to be amazing. And that was also in the 80s. So all of these things that I've listed are mostly from the 80s, early 90s. But apparently quicksand, like peak quicksand time was in the 1960s. So this guy, this journalist named Daniel Angber wrote a really, really great piece about all this quicksand stuff for Slate. And I will link to that on Popside.com slash weird. But yeah, so basically he did a lot of research about this. And looking back to the 60s, it's super, super prevalent in movies and media. So it is in Lawrence of Arabia that 1962 award-winning movie, one of my dad's favorites. I think it's a very dad movie.

Yeah, classic dad film. Big time. It's also in this, it's in a lot of movies, but I found this really cool movie I need to go see now from 1964. It's a Japanese sci-fi movie called Woman in the Dunes. And yeah, I need it. And apparently, characters spend, as they might suggest, a lot of time trapped in a sand pit. But yeah, there are a lot more. And the Slate story actually does have data about this. So peak, like I said, peak quicksand time was in the 60s when nearly 3% of films in the era, which doesn't sound like a whole lot, but that's 1 in 35 movies, showed someone sinking in mud, sand, or some kind of oozing clay. So 1 in 35, that feels significant. And basically compare that with every decade before.

or since really like that's when quicksand was at its peak so before that it was like half a percent of films had anything quicksand um so what's you know what's with the explosion and even after that it kind of peters off like I think a lot of our experience with quicksand was kind of like that residual from the peak quicksand because ever since then it's been on a slope towards you know now which you barely ever see it anymore well I think it became such a such a like trope and a cliche yeah it's interesting because like and I'll talk about this a little bit later, but, like, you know, other things remain. Like, people still use Wilhelm screams.

True. And other gimmicks. I don't know. But I agree. I was thinking about the Wilhelm scream recently. Do you both know the, um, the scream that, um, Lego Yoda does? Yeah. In the Lego games.

I was thinking we need to get rid of the Wilhelm scream. I think it's tired and it's done. And we need to bring that like, uh, that yoga scream in instead. Yes. I want to start a petition for this or something. I know. because there are all those videos on YouTube that are like, that are like an hour of silence interrupted by blank.

And I've seen the hour of silence interrupted by Lego Yoda screams. It's iconic. It's a good scream. Look at it. It's great. It's great. We will link to it on pops. Dot.com slash weird.

So, yeah. It is kind of a trend and like it does feel dated. And something that I think of like, you know, as we consider this transition. from quicksand to know quicksanded movies is this one scene that really feels quicksandy but isn't to me and it to me in my mind it like acts as this transition out of using quicksand as a tool and that's the trash compactor scene in Star Wars so instead of like being sucked down vertically they're kind of being crushed horizontally but it's it has like all the same elements

like they're trapped they need to get out you know that sort of thing it's just kind of Scrablin. A lot of scrablin. Yeah, that's a great word. Very similar plot device. And you know, in Star Wars, there's like the Sarlack Pit and Yoda's Swamp. And those are kind of quicksandy too. But, you know, the data does show as more time progresses, less quicksand shows up in movie, TV and media. Like, consider the TV show lost. Over 100 episodes, no quicksand. No quicksand and lost. So much sand. None of it quick. Correct. Yeah. Just wild. That is what would have saved the ending of lost. That's what they need. At the end, everyone would have been like, great. You did it. Nailed it.

Best show ever. So why? Why does Quicksand go away? You know, like I said earlier, the Wilhelm scream is still around. Like the time bomb thing is still around too, like the snipping of the wires, you know? Like gimmicks like that. They're still there. When was the last time I saw that?

I'm trying to think. It's in an M&M's commercial. highly relevant then still clearly i would i would argue yes um but so the writer of this slate story does have a theory about why quicksand was so hot and then so not um he says that it was it was that way because it was so tightly associated with 60s culture and politics so apparently there was reportedly some kind of quicksand in vietnam during the war um i don't know what kind or if that was a real report. But a lot of political and historical writers of the time

kind of used quicksand as a metaphor to describe the war as a whole. So there were books and articles titled, quote, the quicksand war, war, or like the making of a quagmire, which at the time quicksand and quagmirees were kind of considered to be the same thing. They are very different.

But at the time, you know, we didn't have an advanced understanding of such things. But, you know, people like also debated something called the quicksand myth in politics. And, you know, it was basically just like a whole thing in the 60s. People were like so into quicksand as as a narrative device, even in real life in society and politics and stuff. So and I guess like the whole quicksand myth thing is like, you know, if you're not careful, you get sucked in and then you get sucked in more and more and it's hard to escape without sacrificing something. And like, I can see how that would be a useful

analogy. So that was one thing. So like, you know, Quicksand just super ingrained with both with politics in the 60s and war. But you know what else happened in the 60s? The moon landing. You know, and I'm sure you're thinking, there's no way. This quicksand obsession could extend to the moon. And if you were thinking that, you'd be wrong. So.

I was thinking that. Basically, there's a group of scientists led by this one guy, a Cornell astronomer named Thomas Gold and a NASA mathematician named Leonard Roberts. And they were like, they were warning everybody that the surface of the moon might be so torn up by like different kind of space waves and junk and everything out there that the sands might be really loose and powdery and dangerous. So they actually warned the Senate in 1963 saying that they were worried about the moonlander, like sinking into the loose sands on the moon.

Like they were literally like there's moon quicksand like use caution that's not a real thing by the way but Moon dust is like really nasty for sure it's very sharp so it would be really bad if it also was quicksandy but it would be a nightmare I remember I think it was Sarah Chorosh who did a segment on like being allergic to the moon dust yeah yeah yeah it's nasty it's happened but moon quicksand actually was in a movie after they were so, like, you know, after they warned the Senate about the moon quicksand, they put, like, Hollywood put it in a movie. And it is the film 12 to the moon, which is from 1960. And an astronaut gets sucked right down into the lunar quicksand.

So basically, it isn't really clear whether, like, we first got obsessed with it in the movies and then everybody kind of started applying it as a metaphor to real life stuff. Or if, like, stuff like the war and, like, real life stuff made us obsessed with quicksand and put it into movies. It seems like kind of a positive feedback loop. You know what I mean, fueling each other. We may never really know the truth behind the origin. But whatever, whatever, you know, whatever the reason, Quicksand was hot in the 60s and as 60s culture kind of became less trendy. The 70s and 80s took over. Quicksand supposedly faded away as a metaphor and a Hollywood storytelling device. So that's probably why it was so hot and then not in theory. But

But here's the question. The quicksand that they told stories about in Vietnam and the one shown in movies, is it real? Would it act like that? Would it really just suck you all the way down above your head? You know what I mean? And if you struggle, does it suck you down faster? Like, is there truth to that? Well, I'm happy to report that in 2004, the MythBusters looked, they took a look, you know?

So if you're onto the mirror. Yeah, right. Oh, I wish. I wish. So Adam and Jamie, you know, if you're unfamiliar, those are the professional debunkers. They took on this idea of killer quicksand, you know, can people really get sucked into this sand and water mixture and, you know, like it is in the movies. So they filled this giant container with 20,000 pounds of very, very fine sand. And then they turned it into this like slurry by pumping a bunch of water up like through the bottom. And Adam actually gets in, like sacrificing, I'm sure there was safety measures, but, you know, he gets in and he starts to sink. But only up to like his chest, his waist and chest kind of like where his armpits are. And, you know, at the end, they do their classic debrief. And Adam's like, all right, what's our final verdict on the movie style killer quicksand? And Jamie's like, surprised you even have to ask. It's absolutely busted. No such thing.

This is perfect, perfect. Thank you. I didn't even practice. I feel like I'm right there. But yeah, you know, if MythBusters isn't good enough for you, which, come on, it's MythBusters. There was a nature study published the next year in 2005, you know, not like some random journal. It's the big boy nature journal, whatever. So basically, there was this physicist named Daniel Bonn, and he collected, they called it

wild quicksand, which I think is a really funny way to put it. But, you know, quicksand occurring naturally. It's from this salt lake in Iran. And they brought it back to his lab in the Netherlands. And basically what he did is he placed different kinds of aluminum beads in the quicksand. And he based that on like the density of like the human body basically. So like it was a, in his mind, it was an analogy to how a human might sink. And he basically found the same. thing as the MythBusters did is that a person would only sink up to their armpits. So, they basically debunked like movie style quicksand, you know, the kind that like, like, think of the Princess Bride where you take one step and then like, shoot, you're,

you're down there. But real life quicksand is typically made up of, you know, this particular mixture of sand and clay and saltwater and this particular thing about it is when you apply force to it, it kind of liquefies. So it goes from this like solid earth to this gooey liquid really, really fast. And that does kind of explain the whole like move more and sink faster myth, which does, you know, that can happen. But it's not like you're going to go all the way down. So it definitely doesn't sound nearly as scary. But wait till you hear this.

The plot thickens. So to pull your foot out of quicksand at a. rate of one centimeter per second would require the same force needed to lift a medium-sized car. So you're stuck in there. Right. Yeah. And if you're stuck up to your armpits, it's also like the danger, you know, if you're in wild quicksand, as they say.

Because like chest compression. Definitely part of it. But the other part of it is hypothermia because a lot of like quicksand is like in colder regions and depending on the time of year. And then the other scale. thing, which actually did happen to somebody, I think, in Alaska, is if you're on a coastline and you're stuck and the tide comes in. Yeah, it's... Yeah, that's bleak. Yeah, very bleak. So to cap all of this off, I just have the story of a guy who got stuck and he does survive. But, you know, it kind of... I'll show you the experience of what it's like to get stuck in wild, earthly quicksand. And this guy actually did write about his experience for Outside Magazine. So I'll link to... to that too on pops.com slash weird. But basically, this was in Utah back in 2011. It was a 25-year-old

hiker and he got stuck in quicksand. His name was Rob Tazar and he was hiking the Dirty Devil River in southeastern Utah. And he's with some other students from this national outdoor leadership school. So basically they were hiking. They were hiking. They were kind of along this riverbank that they wanted to, it's kind of like a cliff and then a river. And they were trying to like traverse, trying to find a path like between them, basically. So they found this like receded coastline. He was like, I'll go make sure that it's not like submerged in water to make sure we can walk across it.

And about 15 feet from the water, he realized something was up. He went to like turn around 90 degrees to talk to the guy who was with and he just sunk immediately to his knees. And the other guy he was with only one of his feet kind of sank in. So he was barely stuck. And they struggled for like 15 minutes trying to get out. And then they used, they had some rope. So they were able to like leverage with some rope.

And his buddy, his friend was able to get free. But his foot came out and the shoe stayed, which is like such a funny image. That feels Hollywood to me. Yeah. So basically now this is what Rob wrote an outside. So quote, the struggle to get out had moved mud and led to maybe an inch or two of water around me. When I put my hand in the drink, it went numb after maybe 30 seconds. So it was cold out. Apparently it was like 65 degrees and I imagine the water was colder. An hour past, the sun is kind of

going behind the canyon wall. It's getting colder. The temp kept dropping. And they weren't able to get them out for 13 hours. Wow. Hypothermia, huge concern. So, you know, medics and emergency services came, all that stuff. They were able to feed him hot meals from this portable stove. So that was huge. They ended up eventually trying to use a helicopter to get him out. So I know. Just like hoisted.

So basically they had it hover above him and he like was like holding on to something attached to the helicopter and then they tried to like lift him up. And so this is what he says, quote, after the third time and by the third time he means like trying to lift him up the third time. I remember telling them it wasn't working. The fourth time, I ended up slipping up a little bit as the helicopter went up, and it pulled me in a weird way. I felt my back go, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

So he was like, let's please stop. Yes. And the pilot was heard over the radio saying, like, if I try this anymore, I'm going to rip this kid in half. So they ended up getting him out. not with a helicopter, but like rescuers went out on rafts and dug him out with shovels. And that took 45 minutes, but it did eventually work. And the reason it took so long and why it was so difficult, because remember, he's not in that far. It's really just his legs.

But they had to be really, really careful to like hold the quicksand and the mud in a certain way that it didn't like flow right back in around him. But yeah, they got him out and they flew him to the hospital and he had completely lost feeling in his legs. And then he wrote this, quote, It was Thanksgiving, so I called my parents at 5 a.m. Three days later, my legs regained their feeling, and I joined the group for a 10-day backcountry skiing session in the grand teens. Wow. Some people are just different from me.

That's exactly what I thought. So, yeah, and like this is not the only quicksand story that's out there. So my final piece of advice for y'all, what to do if you're stuck. and according to the experts, the best way to get out is to do a little wiggle to kind of wiggle your legs around and you know,

that is antithetical to the movie advice because movie advice is like... Exactly, that is the one thing I wouldn't want to do. Right. Because that's what the movies have taught me. Exactly. I was surprised as well.

It's like, don't thrash. Yeah. Wiggle. Right. So it's gentle wiggles and that makes kind of like space between your legs and the quicksand itself. So if water can flow in there,

then it like kind of dilutes and loosens the sand. That's like what the experts say. And you have to do it really slowly and like progressively. And it only really works like until you lose feeling in your legs. But in theory, the wiggles should work. So yeah. And you know,

you're not going to really sink past your waist or your armpits. So even though the movies say don't wiggle, you got to wiggle a little bit. And that's my quick fan story. Wow. I feel so much more prepared for what feels like my inevitable encounter with quicksand now. I know. I know.

That we've talked about it. I have to admit, I don't think the movies ever made me afraid of quicksand. Really? I think I maybe came into like movie quicksand around the time where I was like, okay, this is clearly a very goofy, silly thing and would never actually happen. And I think I maybe just always assumed it was made up for the films. I feel like it hit me at the perfect.

age where I was like oh this is real you know what I mean I also think like you know I definitely remember adults telling me like oh yeah and the thing about quicksand is you can't move when you're like people definitely responded to questions about movie quicksand

as if they knew way more than they did which made it seem like much more of a credible right right maybe just like our TV budgets were worse in the UK and not just like quicksand looks like really pathetic and everyone was just like that we would be able to get through that just fine. You're the days of our lives quicksand.

All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with one more fact. Make every get-together chill. This Memorial Day get up to an extra $1,000 off select top brand appliances like LG. Plus get free delivery at the Home Depot. Tackle pool towels and camp laundry with a large capacity washer

and host and style with the fridge serving craft ice, mini craft ice, cube dice, and crushed ice. Shop appliance savings now through June 3rd at the Home Depot. Offer valid May 14th through June 3rd, U.S. only. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. See store online for details. It's peak pollination season, and my business is scaling fast. To keep the nectar flowing, I need a phone plan with top priority data speeds. That's why I chose GoogleFi wireless.

My connections stay strong even when the hive is buzzing. Plus, unlimited plans started $35 a month. Now, that's a deal that doesn't stay. Explore GoogleFi Wireless plans today. Plus taxes and government fees. Google Fi Wireless is not subject to data traffic deprioritization during times of high network usage. Okay, we're back, and it's tea time. Tea time.

It is tea time. Yeah, I want to talk about tea and British infrastructure, if that's okay with you both. This is one of my favorite facts about one of the odd ways that the United Kingdom works. I did want to ask you both, are you big tea drinkers, either of you? Okay, I have the perfect thing to say about this, and it's my favorite thing to brag about. Please. So in undergrad, in college, I studied in London for a whole semester, and I loved it. It was the best.

And I did get a little internship at this nursing magazine. called Nursing Times. Shout out nursing times. And I did a lot of really cool things at that internship and then everyone was lovely. But my biggest claim to fame is that, you know, I learned to make a really good cup of tea. And, you know, at like the workplace, or at least where I worked, like people would do a tea round, like where you make tea for everybody and then you go give it to everybody. And that was a whole thing. And by the end of the internship, one of my co-worker said, I can't even tell an American made this tea. And that...

Wow. I know. You really assimilated. That's incredible. I did. So I like tea. If you spent enough time... Yeah, sorry, go on.

Oh, yeah. Does I like tea a fair bit and my husband actually does not like coffee. So he's a tea guy. So we have a lot of teas. Okay. And do you both have electric kettles, is my question. Yes. Yes.

Okay. But I know that like people... people you know say Americans microwave their water a lot that is a big thing yeah I don't know if you've seen there's this one TikTok of this like American mom and her kid and they're like here's how you make British tea and they start off by microwaving water for like like 30 seconds and then just like pouring in a ton of milk and it's it's the worst video ever made um but yeah um if yeah just because you spent time in the UK you would know that that sort of stereotype of like British people drinking an absurd amount of tea is just like a very like true to life stereotype.

It's so true. Yeah. And I became I like I loved it. It's it was great. Yeah. It's very much just like any time that you show up in like a British person's home, it will just be a matter of time before you're offered like a cup of tea. And I would say that like at least in my experience like electric kettles are pretty rare or it seems more uncommon for them to show up like in North America. whereas pretty much just like every single household, it would be very surprising to go into a household and not like have them have like an electric kettle. One of the things that I discovered

when I moved from the United Kingdom to Canada is I got an electric kettle and I was like, oh, why is my water taking so long to boil? And I think, I don't know this for sure, because I hadn't actually been able to find anything on this, I'm just sort of going by what my understanding is, but because the mains voltage is different, in like North America and in the UK.

Like the mains in North America is like 120 volts, whereas in the UK it's about twice that. Oh, wow. So my understanding is that the kettles in the UK will just take more power, and therefore we'll be able to heat up water just faster. That does make sense, because I remember,

speaking of my study abroad trip, people who like brought their curling irons and flat irons for their hair and then plugged them in and then they got like short-circuited and broken. Huge mistake. Yeah. That is very much a thing, yeah, for sure.

But yeah, so one of the sort of like things that as, there's a certain phenomena in the UK as called TV pickup, which is kind of a combination of the British people's love for tea, for having tea very regularly for associating any kind of break with let's have a cup. along with this sort of like reliance on electric kettles in combination with particular like big TV events and so basically and this is a this is a thing that is exclusive to the United Kingdom this doesn't happen anywhere else at the world but any time that there is like a big like TV event be that like a sports like event or it's particularly prevalent when there's like a phenomenon

of like a soap opera, like EastEnders or something like that. Or reality TV is another big one. Or if it's like a specific thing, like, like, you know, a royal wedding or something like that. Sure. All of these things bring a lot of people around their TVs and then the moment that, yeah, the moment that like, hey, the moment that a commercial break happens or that particular event ends, every single person is like, okay, it's break time. now I can go and have my tea.

And suddenly millions of people across the country are all turning on their kettles at the same time. And so this is something that there's actually a specific team at the National Grid, which is the name of the country's electrical system. They're called the National Grid Energy Balancing Team. And so what they do is that they track when events like this might happen

so that they can make sure extra energy is pumped into the grid at these specific moments so that to compensate basically for all of these people making tea at the same time. It's not just tea obviously it's like other things associated with it like opening your fridge

or something like that, all of these sort of like other electrical things but it's all happening kind of in sync the biggest one that ever happened was during the 1990 World Cup after the semi-final. It was England versus West Germany. I don't know how familiar you to are with footy. Yes, my husband is actually German and a football fan,

so I'm not actually that familiar, but I dabble. I stand in the room while it's on. I dabble as well. I'm pretty much exactly the same, but it's like, I think being in England for so long, it's just like impossible not to just pick up knowledge. So it went to penalties, basically. So this was like, because it was a semi-final, they couldn't end it in a draw. Someone had to win. So they went into extra time and it was still a draw and they went into penalty shootout.

So basically it was like the match went on as long as it possibly could. And so there were a lot of people kind of like staying and watching the specific event. and then the moment it ended, there was a 2,800 megawatt demand, which apparently is equivalent to 1.5 million kettles, give or take. Oh, my God. At the same time. The people were thirsty. Yes. That's wild.

And I say equivalent to kettles as well, because every time I did research into this, anyone from the National Grid would, like, they would say a number, and then they would specifically say, this is. how many kettles that is because that is like their frame of reference basically. Right. But yeah, there's a whole team of people dedicated just to like. I love that there's a team. Yeah. They will, they will track like specific TV events based on like data over the course of like the last five years so they can like have a comparison and be able to make predictions. They will be in direct touch with like TV networks so that they will know like the precise moment that like an episode of EastEnders is like supposed to end so that they can

compensate for that. Sometimes they will, like, I was watching a video where somebody was going through this process and he was like, I'm in touch with like France so I can get some like surplus power from them to compensate for this moment as well. And I actually have a, yeah, a quote here from somebody at the National Grid Energy Balancing Team who said the TV pickup from deal or no deal is gobsmackingly high. How sad is that? Not only are they like forced to watch all of these like shows and pay attention to all of these events, but apparently they don't even necessarily like doing it, which is extra funny to me. I agree. That's hilarious.

Also, sidebar, the deal or no deal, I should say, in the UK is very different to how it is in North America. It's the same general format, but just like aesthetically, while the one in like, yeah, in the US is like all of these like pretty ladies opening all of the boxes. Totally. In the UK, it's all just regular like members of the public. who will eventually go on to be a contestant. That's more fun, I think. I think so as well. Yeah.

And I don't think it's very sad to whoever that quote is from from the National Grid. I like deal or no deal a lot. Yeah. Personally, yeah. The other thing I discovered as I was doing research into this is the specific infrastructure that exists to make sure that they can provide energy during these surges. And they have basically these like reservoirs of water and they will kind of like slowly over time pump reservoirs with water so that they have this big supply of water. And then the moment that they need all of this energy because everyone's starting on their kettles, they will open up a valve.

All of this water will come down and they'll generate a bunch of like hydroelectricity in that moment. And that is how they will compensate for these. huge spikes. That's wild. I wonder why they may I don't know. I know why they choose that. Maybe that's just like what was easiest to do. And I also wonder like the first time they realized this was happening. Like I wonder like did the grid go down? You know what I mean? Like how me I don't know. Yeah, I don't have any specific information on when they were when this first started occurring or anything like that. Just that it is just a very regular occurrence now in the UK. Although it is slightly less related.

regular now, or at least these spikes are less big than they used to be. Sure. And that started first with when the UK went from like five terrestrial channels to like digital TV, when suddenly there were just like a bunch of other channels to watch, and then again, sort of add to that with like streaming and things like that. There are less of these moments that occur now where just like a lot of people are all watching like a specific show or event or something like that. something like that.

And it is worst for sporting events. That apparently is the bad one because that's the one where they don't know when it is going to end or when the thing is going to happen. At least when they're in touch with like, yeah, like it's the finale of Love Island or whatever. They know to the dot exactly when that thing is going to end.

But tennis is apparently a particularly bad one because those managers can just go on for a very, very long time and they just have to sit and wait and just be ready for that moment and just try and predict. Be ready with that giant tank of water. Exactly. I was really curious that. Like, how do you provide that energy all in one go?

Totally. I guess you just like have a battery with a bunch of energy stored in it. But at the same time, what is a reservoir of water other than a bunch of energies stored in one place? And the moment you open that valve, suddenly you get that energy, right? I guess it's sort of the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool.

And I would love to watch a like split screen of whatever event I'm watching and them being ready to release the crack in. Oh my God. Incredible. It's true. It's true. I can 100% send you the video that I watched, which was from, it was a clip from an episode of a TV show. I want to say it was called like above Britain or something. And there is a clip of somebody who was like, I don't know where I'm going to get my energy

from in this moment. Like the BBC told me EastEnders was going to end by now, but it's still on the air. And then just like watching this like man just like have this like intense focus and panic while hearing like the ending credits music to East Enders as he's trying to just like scramble to make sure he's going to like have all his power. and it's just like, where's the energy from France? It's just like, do, do, do, do, do. It's pretty excellent.

So I should send that to you if you want to link to it. Yeah, I definitely want to see that. Wow, I love that so much. And it makes me kind of, there's something kind of sad about it no longer being a thing that everybody is watching these big events happen at the same time, even though like, you know, it's not that I think that the UK should have been forced to just stick with the five BBC channels for forever and never get digital TV. But we should do more synchronized experiences, I think, are that's probably why people like Twitch. Hey, there you go.

I think it's the reason that it seemed from what I can see, it's like either like, yeah, royal wedding events or sports events. is the big one. Sports events is the one that I think people are still going to be watching watching live and no matter what the service is, you know, you're still going to want to see that. Yeah. In the US, we really just have the Super Bowl. I can't think of anything else. I guess the ball drop. Yeah, people in the UK still really into football. And so, yeah, big, big football events are still going to be the big one for sure. Yeah. It's never going away. well I love what a range of weird stuff we had today truly such an assortment Charlie thank you so much for coming on it was so great to have you

thank you so much for having me thank you for being a great venue for me to share my sort of nerdy British tea infrastructure fact it's one of my favorite favorite thanks I was trying to wreck my brain for what to what to show and I was like oh yeah TV pickup yeah absolutely perfect And would you remind our listeners where they can find you? Sure. Yeah, the best sort of places on the internet to find me either on YouTube. I'm just YouTube.com forward slash Charlie. Someone at YouTube is nice enough to give me that redirect a long time ago. That's amazing.

And then I also do a lot of streams on Twitch too. Probably more prominent on Twitch these days. And that's twitch.com. Yeah. Awesome. The weirdest thing I learned this week is produced by all of our hosts, including me, Rachel Fultman, along with Jess Bodie, who also serves as our audio engineer and editor extraordinaire.

Our theme music is by Billy Cadden. Our logo is by Katie Belloff. If you have questions, suggestions, or weird stories to share, tweet us at Weirdest underscore Thing. Thanks for listening, Weirdos. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money, whether it's the funds fueling AI,

or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta.

Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clear visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance, or call it, Compliance.

Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to VANTA.com slash com.