Beat the Afternoon Slump, Sleep Better & Why Every Minute of Exercise Counts
00:00Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered.Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.Learn more at no frills.ca.Before you knew what a stock was, you traded snacks, cards, turns.You knew what something was worth because you felt it.That instinct to trade didn't disappear.It just grew up.
00:28T.D. Easy Trade taps into that instance.instinct, so you can build something real for the future, with no minimums, no monthly fees,and 100 free trades.You already got this, because you are made to trade, and TD Easy Trade is made to help.Download it now.Hello and welcome to the Wellness Group, your twice weekly dose of health and wellnessinspiration with us as your host, I'm Ella Mills.And I'm Rihanna Lambert, and after a decade in this wellness space, we know how overwhelming
01:01and confusing health advice can beand that's why we're here with our podcastto cut through all the noiseand make healthier living simple,fun and personal.Do you know what? This is round twoof starting the record because the first onere had this setting that wasn't working on her headphones
01:21and she just had me like a full volume screamingin her ears and I had got really distractedby Matt went to a meeting last weekand was given a copy of the new Otelangi Simple 2 bookand anyway and I had it openon my desk and I was like telling her about these meso mushrooms and these soy potatoes and all therest of it anyway. So I waffled and shouted at her. So I think it's good that we're on round two.Okay, round two. Well, it was actually a lovely way to start the day. I've being inspired by miso
01:50in all sorts of shapes and forms. But Ella, what do we have coming up in today's show?Okay, very important. I think for most of us, why do we get that dreaded 3pm afternoonslump and what should we do to help with these energy crashes.Interesting new data on whether eating more plants could help us sleep better.I swear to God that we are not biased with encouraging more plants.These are just the headlines because plants are brilliant.So we will look at how fibre affects the deepness of our sleep.Does every minute of exercise really count or maybe not?
02:21Could your sleep tracker now statistically speaking be making your sleep worse and making you feelworse?And should we all take Tai Chi a little bit more seriously?I love that. Should we take Tai Chi more seriously? I would like to. So Ella, before we start today's health headlines that matter, have you got any updates for us? How have you been?I am so good. I feel very unbrand because I'm sitting here thumbing through a cookbook like earmarking delicious recipes to make while munching on some rye toast with avocado, which is very in brand. It's pouring with rain. And it feels like the first kind of autumnal day, which is lovely. But we all in the family just for some reason couldn't sleep last night. I don't know.something in the ether, but my littlest woke up at five. And you know, in this a moment whereyou're like, we're just not going to go back to sleep, are we? And we'd ended up, I'd ended up in bedwith her. So we got up really early at like 5.30 and we watched an R Planet, a David Attenborough,
03:13we watched one of the jungle ones. And it was such, and I started the morning. We watched a wholejungle episode of David Attenborough. She has her favorite Teddy's a Monkeys, so we watched it withthe monkey about the monkeys. And I just, I hadn't watched a David Attenborough in a really, really long time.not like I thought he wasn't great because he's obviously great,but I kind of forgot how soothing and how inspirationaland how unbelievable those shows are.And she is a really passionate veggie.Like she really is obsessed with animals and she can't bear the idea of anyone
03:46hurting animals.And she's really kind of tender and empathetic in that way.And it is incredible when you watch these shows,how, you know, you see how much of the rainforest has been destroyed.And like you do feel very passionate.He's amazing at getting,you so passionate at doing the little things to help the planet. Anyway, that's a really no startthe day. It's a lovely starts the day. I think there's so much to be said for Sir David Attenborough.
04:08He is an absolute legend and I really, really hope that as time progresses, his legacyhas never forgotten because he's done incredible things to raise awareness for the environment.Absolutely. He really has, hasn't he? It's unbelievable. And you know what? It was such a goodexample to me just on one of those mindset switches. You know when you can like make the choice,right? It was five in the morning. We all had a terrible sleep. And I kind of, there was a part of me thatthought, oh my goodness gracious. Like, shall I be in a bad mood sort of thing and be frustrated? And then Ijust thought, it's not worth it. Like, let's just have a nice time. And it was such an interestingexample of like when things don't go the way you would hope or the way you plan, sometimes you can do a
04:54nice switch and actually I was like you know what let's just have a really nice morning togetherand let's you know anyway it was a nice example of that moment of choice of should I befrustrated about the lack of sleep and that it's pitch black up outside and we're up at 5am or shouldtry and make the best of it oh 100% I think it's the glass half full half empty analogy again it'show do you choose to approach the day I love that tip perhaps when I'm waking up early I'lldefinitely give that a go but re how are you oh I just feel like you Ella doescozy season and I'm here for it to be honest. Obviously I'm very tired but I'm really happy that we arefinally seeing things cool down a little bit. We've just had this nonstop barrage of kind of random
05:38what's the word when it's hot, muggy, muggy type of days which we're just not used to you here.And we don't normally talk about the weather this much either in Britain. I promise that anyonelistening abroad, we're never usually like. I think we do. I think we do. We love the weather.We do, but it's because this has been exceptional, we've never known anything like it.So I'm really embracing it.And I've got a few tips, which I'll probably save for Thursday's episode.I've been doing a lot of cooking more with rice than usual.Don't ask why.
06:09I've gone off pasta a little bit, Ella.And, you know, how strange.Maybe I've just OD'd on pasta recently.And now I'm like, let's make some rice dishes for the family.I love rice.I feel like rice in not obviously in some parts of the world,rice is an absolutely stable of everything. But I think sometimes maybe in this country we underappreciaterice. I know. I agree. In favour of pasta. I completely agree. I agree. I think it is underappreciated.
06:33And we do have some lovely listener feedback, which was anonymous that I think we should definitelystart the morning with Ella. Yeah, this was anonymous, but our lovely listener said,I remember back during the World Cup, it came up in one of your podcasts that a lot of the brandsthat sponsor the World Cup or sports tournaments in general do not stand for good nutritional valuesand it doesn't make any sense. And then do you remember thethe other day we were saying how it was every seven seconds that you were seeing junk foodor gambling, alcohol, etc.Anyways, our listeners gone on to say, in a crazy world with so much negativity and immorality,
07:07I just wanted to highlight Tesco.Tesco keep coming up, just announcing being one of the sponsors for the women's superleague.Ria is probably aware with all the great work yesterday.She does for children's health that Tesco have already been donating free fruit and veg toschools for children around the country.their aim is to support healthy eating habits from a very young age and to reach a million children.And as part of this partnership with the Women's Super League,
07:30every attendance of the matches will contribute towards a donation from the Women's Super League footballto Tesco's Fruit and Veg for Schools program.I thought it was just such a great initiative and hopefully we can start seeing more partnerships like this,bring positive change in helping the next generation eat healthier.So yes, not a question, but something I thought was worth calling out on the podcastwhen there's a lot of doom and gloom in this space.I love it.I love it too.
07:53Thank you so, so much for sharing that with us.And I really hope that other sponsors come forward that are health-driven.And I don't mean fiber water or electrolyte brands.I mean things like this initiative, which are genuinely going to help make a difference.So Ella, let's go on to our health headlines that matter.And then as you said, though, just very quickly, we know that doom and gloom gets way morepick up. We're way more likely to click on it, share it, talk about it, shout about it. And so I thinkit is really important. If anyone spots these positive initiatives, positive changes, a sense of
08:33little shoots of change, please share them with us. Because I do think it's very important with justone show. But I think it's really important to publicly praise and shout out these really positiveinitiatives because if we don't collectively celebrate them, I don't think we'll see as much of them.we were talking about last week, if we want to change the food environment, we have to changethe products that we purchase. You know, ultimately, like, we vote with our wallets. And I think inthis sense, we vote with our voice. And if we, if these companies see huge pickup on social media,in the press, conversations around their really positive initiatives, that ticks theirkind of KPIs in the marketing department really effectively. So it is really important. So if you see anything
09:16good, always share it with us. And you know, you can get in touch hello at wellness hyphen scoop.com.I couldn't have said it better myself, Ella.Thank you.And we do have a positive, informative headline, which hopefully is going to make a bit of difference to us all.So the Washington Post actually revealed this headline the other week saying what to eat to get better sleep,according to some new research that they have, that certain foods and dietary patterns can make a difference to how fast we fall asleep and how soundly we experience it.I know, which, you know, look, sleep is an issue.And interestingly, we talked about this a while.
09:51ago. But difficulty sleeping affects women more than men. It's disproportionate in the impact that it has. And it'sincredibly common to have disrupted sleep. So I feel like this speaks to all of us at different points in our lives.But very interesting new research that was published in nature health looked at whether what we eat during the day affects how we sleep at night.Now, I guess, before we go into all of the new research, we could kind of point out the, I don't want to say obvious, it sounds condescending, but like the core points, right? Like if we eat a really heavy meal,very high in sugar just before bed or very, very high in fat,just before bed.Loads of caffeine, lots of alcohol.There are things that we know aren't great for sleep.
10:33And then this new research is a bit more detail.But will you give us the like actually kind of core out of this headline headlineson the do's and don't for good sleep in that sense?A hundred percent because Ella's right.It's not actually, this isn't going to be about isolating foodsand saying that having one particular food like you see it a lot.oh eat cherries you'll have a good night's sleep that's definitelyor turkey because it contains triptophan just like guzzling our whole turkey for
11:00Thanksgiving pre-bed every day I shouldn't laugh but it's because I've written so manyheadlines based on sleep and food not the headlines but the features for the papersover the last 13 odd years but triptophan is the mechanism the neurotransmitterthat helps convert to serotonin you've got serotonin triptan you've got melatoninThey all work together.And melatonin, of course, is our sleepy hormone.And we know that food can have a direct impact on this.But not in isolation, of course.
11:28You want it to work alongside your circadian rhythm, your blood sugar balance.And it's how you've kind of started your day with cortisol levels as well, your stress hormones.They also play a role in how well we sleep.We wake up with them quite high.You want them to kind of dip throughout the day, which is why a 3 p.m.Slump, which we'll get on to as well later on might be the nubes.and it's how we manage it. So I honestly think that when it comes to sleep, it's about the boring oldcell of it's what you do day to day overall. But sometimes, and I'm just going to say this,
12:03sometimes hormones play a role and you can't, you can't do anything. You could have had the bestdietary day in the world. You could have had a really good day where you felt super relaxed. You've even been to a spa,for heaven's sake, you know, and then you still don't sleep well at night. And there are many co-foundingvariables but I think Ella as an overall that's where a lot of the things often come from when you'relooking at food and sleep it's that melatonin triptophan kind of link yeah exactly and then ideally you've got acouple of hours before your evening meal which is a nice balanced meal before you go to bed yes to digest becausewe don't want to be too heavy meal probably two to three hours before bed is is the guidance reallyokay and now we have some more detailed new breaking research that we can go into but it's very helpful
12:45is a kind of like outline to start with.So interestingly, this came from participants in something called the Human Phenotype Project,which is a very long-running digital health study.It's enrolled about 28,000 people.So it's a large study.And then the researchers have got extensive data on these participants, including about their diet,their lifestyle, their medical histories, blood sugar from continuous glucose monitors,looking at their genetics.
13:10They've studied their gut microbiomes.And they've looked at sleep from sleep tracking devices, more on sleep tracking devices later.but pretty detailed research at these 28,000 people.And then they've looked at 32 different dietary factors within this,which includes things like fiber intake, intake of their vitamins and minerals,then the variety and how many different plant foods people are eating,their meal timing and their daily calorie intake.And seven dietary factors were associated with at least one aspect of sleep.
13:39They found seven of these 32.Now, obviously, this is showing associations.It can't prove concretely.but what they basically found is that more fibre and plant diversity really helped sleep,which I think it feels quite new.I mean, yes, we know that plants help our sense of association and our blood sugar controlbecause of the fibres.So we know all of these different things.
14:04But I think, I don't think most people will go around being like, oh, my gosh,your plant-rich diet great for sleep.It is quite new.I remember writing a little bit about it in the fiber formula with links that we had.but we're looking at research that's emerging a lot with our gut bugs and how they interact with the different processes that help us sleep as well.And I think it's so important to remember that plants alongside the fibre provide us with these wonderful phytochemicals,which in this particular research really mattered, didn't it?And I think it's linked now to the deeper sleep and more REM sleep, which is rapid eye movement, isn't it?
14:38The bit that we're not aware that we do when we sleep when your eyes kind of pulsate underneath your eyes.eyelids when your eyes are closed and that's the restorative part of sleep as well. So I think what's soso key is also to remember your gut bugs have their own circadian rhythms themselves. And often that'ssomething that is really important to abide by and what makes shift work so difficult. If you listenback to last Thursday's episode, we discuss shift work and how difficult it is and why I think everyoneworking a night shift in an ideal world should have a nutritionist, Ella. Yeah, exactly an appointment to helpthem. I totally agree. So exactly, that's what this research showed, these 28,000 people, was thata more fibre-dense diet during the day associated with deeper sleep, more REM sleep. And REM is the
15:24stage where new memories are consolidated, interestingly. And then also the participants whohad a greater variety of plant foods, particularly the really nutritious foods we know, likebeans, lentils, nuts, fruit veg, they were also associated with a lower nighttime heart rate,which can be assigned better rest and recovery, which is so much.interesting. And what, as you often talk about, Reed, that was so important was the phytochemicalintake that these people were having. So the researchers were calculating all these participantsdifferent phytochemical index. And really just very quickly summarized for us,phytochemicals. I'm just going to use the word that everybody knows, even though technically
16:05they're not exactly the same, but it's like antioxidants. They're the natural protectors of a plantwhen they're in the wild, when they're growing. And those things, when we consume them ashuman beings can be very beneficial. They can change the appearance of a plant from color pigment.They can provide different effects to our blood vessels even when we consume some phytochemicals.So things like lycopene from tomatoes that are released when tomatoes are cooked. Interestingly, you don't really get them when they're raw, which is I think always a fascinating one.Beta carotene is the orangy pigment you find in butternut squash or carrots, resveretrol in red wine.You know, let's have a think about red grapesor those beautiful colours, Ella.
16:47And interestingly, the participants were diets higherin these phytochemicals, had more deep sleep,more REM sleep, less light sleep,lower night-time heart rates.And so interestingly, when they put this all together,it wasn't this, here's the one food,here's your whole turkey you need to eat before bed.It was actually, there wasn't a magical sleep food,
17:06a certain one.It was so much more about this pattern,but this varied, minimally processed,as plant-rich approach throughout the day, really added up to a better sleep, which is so interesting.Now, there are studies also previously to show that Mediterranean-style diets were particularlybeneficial as well for better sleep. And again, there's obviously that's so similar to what we'retalking about here. And what I like as well is I think those previous studies that we have,and that's why we need a lot more research on this, because I believe this was pulled from lots of
17:36different sleep trackers, but it would be amazing to have one of the sleep schools, you know,where you go in and in isolation, you can really isolate the factors that will dictate theoutcome of the study. I'd love to see in the UK, Dr. Guy Meders or someone have a look at theseamazing phytochemicals and, you know, you put people to sleep and you've got the trackers ontheir head, the kind of wires coming out everywhere. But, you know, we do have this emerging link.And also, I think what's so key as well is that on these large observational studies, they alsolook at bouts of insomnia, Ella. And I do feel that when people go through a rut with sleep,often, for most people you might get the one-off night, but when it gets to a bout of insomnia,
18:20it can really impact your health. And I think we just have to reiterate. And I know because I'll beentering newborn trenches any day now, but it's tough. There is nothing worse than chronic sleepdeprivation. I mean, it's a form of torture in some countries, right? It really can negatively impactour health. Yeah, it's horrendous. And obviously, you know, beans alone aren't going to fix it.And I wouldn't want to overly simplify things and take anyone to feel that from the researchthat we're just shared because obviously that is a huge simplification because obviouslythe whole, there's so many factors that go into our sleep, as you said, hormones,but also our kind of nervous system stay and how stressed we are and how hypervigilant we are
19:03because you need to feel safe to sleep. That's a very kind of logical evolutionaryresponse. That's so true. You want to feel safe to sleep. I do wonder sometimes it's so interestingwhen you've had a different kind of shake-up in your routine and it's just that safety aspect's gone.Yeah, it's like if you're in a completely new bed. It's kind of logical if you're in a new place.People often say that when they stay somewhere else. They don't sleep so well, even if it's a lovely bed.It's always annoying even if you go to a hotel or you've got a holiday booked or something.In the first few nights, you just never sleep as well. And there is also,links as well, of course, with looking at compounds that interact with GABA, which is the receptors
19:42in our brain that have that lovely, calming, relaxing impact, Ella, that help us fall asleep.So if eating a good diet can help enhance those certain areas in our brain and make a bit of adifference, it's worth a try. And it's also another incentive to get plant points in.Exactly. If you need an incentive to eat more veggies today, there you go.Okay. Our second headline comes from the Times, cutting exercise drives up likelihood.of cancer study warns.People urged to keep working out throughout their lives after research showed even losingtwo to three minutes of vigorous activity a day raises risks.
20:16That obviously sounds absolutely terrifying.It really does.Let's break it down.But this was, yeah, it does, isn't it?There was new research published in BMC, medicine, and it looked at the way that we divideour day between sleeping, sitting, standing, and then different intensities of movementand how that could be associated with cancer risk.And in this study, we had just shy of 60,000 people from the UK Biobank.
20:40Obviously, the Biobank comes up time and time again.55% of these participants were women.On average, they were aged just shy of 62.And they had an eight-year follow-up period.And over that period of your just shy of 60,000 people, 2,385 people developed cancer.So rather than simply looking at whether someone exercised or not, the researchersmodeled what might happen when time spent doing.one activity was replaced for the other. So, for example, instead of walking or instead of ironing
21:11or running or swimming or hoovering, but something that's middle gardening, something where you'removing, swap that for sitting and equally the inverse swap sitting for movement and what happens.And then to just sort of reword this slightly and just retell the story, as we age,often historically we've become more sedentary.And the motivation is more difficult,perhaps there's a few aches and pains.The motivation to move a bit more and do thingsdoes become less.
21:44It lessens.And often as we age,that's why the risk of cancers,it's also a reason why risk of cancers can increase.And it used to be seen more cancer as an old age disease,although now we know that's coming forward.And there's lots of different types of cancers, of course, out there.But I think it's just another really nice incentive
22:01that we have a little bit more control over our health than we previously thought as we age.And we're learning more and more, you know, with these hackers like Brian Johnson and peopleand all sorts of people trying to do all sorts of longevity things.But exercise is really powerful.And maybe it's just an incentive to try and get a little bit more in as we age, Ella.I think that's how I'm looking at it.For sure.And this isn't like necessarily structured exercise.
22:28This is moving.And it was actually a very simple pattern that they found.the more people moved, the lower their risk of developing cancer.So in this modelling, for example, they swapped 15 minutes of sedentary time with 15 minutes of movement.So very simple.And that was associated with the 2% lower cancer risk.And then replacing 15 minutes of sleep, interestingly, with movement was also associatedto the 2% lower risk.
22:52But then going the other way was even more significant.Replacing 30 minutes of movement.So if you used to exercise for 30 minutes and you delete it and you actually just sit for those 30 minutes,that was associated with an 8% higher cancer risk, which is really interesting.And obviously, there's so many factors involved.It's not like if you don't do your 30-minute run and you sit down, you're going to getcancer.Of course, it's not that's so reductive.
23:18But it's interesting to see how all these tiny pieces of a puzzle may come together.And I think it's a great incentive just to be more active.I agree.Standing up in the kitchen and cooking a meal for half an hour is being active rather than sitting downand putting something in the microwave or gardening, gardening, hoovering.It's not just like walking around the town, you know, like go do a bit of a food shop,put it down to the next shop.It's that whole like walk up the escalator, get off the bus stop early kind of analogies.
23:48It's not about going to an exercise class.It's about can you just move more?Yeah, I think what research has just really wanted to reiterate and where the headline came fromwas, you know, just losing two to three minutes of the vigorous.bit so where your heart rates up a little bit, that just has a massive role on risk factor.And I think it's just a bit of an incentive to try and keep active to get our hearts up alittle bit every day. It doesn't mean you have to go to the gym. Like Ella said, it doesn'tmean you have to go for a run. It is literally anything that makes you sweat a little bit.
24:20And often, you know, I can do that just bending down, doing all the blooming washing every singleday. And I've realized how poorly designed my washroom is. I wish I'd put the washing machine higher up.But there you go.I'm having to squat down to pick up my washing and put it in the washing machine.Let's just not get too scared by the headline because the current NHS guidelines are 150 minutes of moderate to intensity activity a week.Or you could look at it as 75 minutes of vigorous intensity.But I have a feeling that might change alongside the recommendations for strength training.Because actually, strength training in some studies has been shown to be even more beneficial than just getting your heart rate up a bit for maintaining muscle muscle.
24:59as we age and the outcomes and risks that's associated with as well, Ella.So it's definitely given me a little reminder to not skimp on things.Yeah, I totally agree.And it's that actually there's a really statistically meaningful impact of not movingfor your 30 minutes.And I think it is a good reminder.And if you're tired today or there's loads going on, don't feel you have to go to the gym,don't feel you have to go to some structured class or go on a run.
25:25You really don't.But if you could spend a bit more time up in a bit,out, that would be hugely beneficial.Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered.Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.Learn more at no frills.ca.Sorry. Investing, trading?
25:55That isn't a personality.You don't need the voice.You don't need the jargon.You don't need the podcast.You already know how to trade.You've done it your whole life.And TD Easy Trade taps into that instinct so you can build something real.No minimums, no monthly fees, 24-hour support, no investor personality required.
26:16Because you are made to trade.And TD Easy Trade is made to help.Download it now.We've talked about the Way Meditation app a few times now because we're obsessed.And I've just looked at my stats and I'm on over 3,800 minutes of meditation with them so far this year.I've actually done it almost every single day for six months now, normally 20 minutes a day.And I cannot tell you the difference it's made to my life.I just feel this amazing sense of inner calm, even when life is chaotic.
26:44And I don't think I've ever had that before.I feel less reactive, more grounded and just more peaceful in myself.It's become one of the most important, unmissable parts of my day.It really is.And now you finally got me onto it too.And I started using it because I wanted something to help me unwind at the end of the day.So I've actually been doing the meditations before bed when I'm finding it hard to switch off.And it's really helping me get to sleep. So it's become a nice way to shut down at the end of the day.
27:12Yeah. And you guys seem to be loving it too because as a community you've now done over a quarter of a million minutes of meditation on the way, which is just incredible.And I think you're loving what I love and relives, which is how simple it is.You don't choose between hundreds of meditation and keep scrolling.you just do one after the next.You follow the path, each one led by the same person, the founder, Henry.Exactly.You just literally open the app.Press play and do the next one.
27:38And I think it's the whole simplicity,which is a huge part of why I've actually managed to stick with this every single day.Yeah.So if you haven't tried it yet and you've been wanting to get into meditationto help you with overwhelmed sleep or just finding a slice of peace and calm in the day,you get a 30-day free trial with us.You just go to the way app.com forward slash.Wellness Scoop. Yes, that's thewayap.com forward slash wellness scoop. And then we go on to the energy slump
28:09headlines, Ella, which I think linked quite nicely. So I'm hoping that with today's episode that Ella'sso beautifully structured that it's going to give you some really coherent kind of motivation andadvice to just move a bit more, get those plants in because Brits report losing over 15 workingdays a year because of mid-afternoon energy slumps Ella. Yeah, it's a lot, isn't it?Yeah, I think so for an energy slump.I mean, but this is where our lifestyle comes in because it's normal to get energy slums.It's just not normal that they should cause you to lose a day of work.I would say that is not the norm.
28:45No, I think this is added up as in you've lost two hours this day, two hours that day,and it totals as a result, 15 working days.Yeah.But even with that, it's just, it's quite shocking.It's a big slump.I mean, to not be able to continue to do your normal task.because of an energy slump.That, to me, isn't normal and we can manage that with lifestyle.
29:07Yes.So interesting.This research actually I came to us via an email and it was just a press release.It does come from that very company Driscoll's.Just to put that out there, it wasn't a headline.It was a kind of emailer.But it is very interesting, I thought, because it's essentially very familiar.This 3, 4 p.m. mid-afternoon energy slump.
29:30I think we can all relate to that.And they did a survey with one poll, and this was just about 2,000 adults in the UK.And as I said, commissioned by a berry company.But I think the broader findings are interesting for us.And essentially what they found is that one in four of us in the UK, say we experience this energy slump every day between three and four.And then this is a bit so interesting really because let's talk about where it comes from and how we can support it better.because 39% of people said their instinct when they get this dipis to reach for a snack or something sweet
30:06and 41% of us are doing this three or more times a week,which is so interesting.And essentially people are saying that this massively affects their impact at work.Workers are saying they're losing an average of 29 minutesof productive time each afternoon.And if you extrapolate that across a normal five-day week,that is just over 10 hours a month.Or as we said, 15.7 working days,
30:29of perceived lost productivity. It's a lot. And also, it feels horrid when you get that slump.Oh, it is. It really is. And what I can say is I can give you concretely advice that you canminimize it and the extent at which you're experiencing it. Although, if this is something thatyou're listening, you're thinking, oh my goodness, that's me. This is me like every single day.Then perhaps there is something underlying going on, which we need to definitely address.So there's so many factors, Ella, when it comes to afternoon slumps.It is.But explain to us because obviously there is so much out there about blood sugar roller coasters.
31:06But for an average person, that's often what it is, right?We've had maybe not the world's most balanced breakfast, a little bit too much caffeine,maybe not such a nourishing lunch.And as a result, we've had a little bit of a roller coaster for our blood sugar and suddenly we just feel completely wiped.That's exactly what's happening.So it's normal for our cortisol when we wake up to wake us up our stress hormones.And actually look at it like a cocktail of hormones when you wake up.It's more than just cortisol.
31:38There's all sorts of different factors at play here.To help us be more productive in the morning, of course, to get us out of that sleep phase,which hopefully we've had a lovely night's sleep,but not all of us wake up feeling so wonderful.And then throughout the course of the day, you get these natural dips.But the issue that we've got in modern society is that we do spike.this cortisol and we do spike our energy levels with caffeine and stimulants. It could be energydrinks, diets that are high also that impact our blood sugar levels in sugars, causing what we
32:10call the blood sugar roller coaster, which I think we've discussed a lot of times on here, whichis normal, but the problem with a peak or a spike is that it's often, it follows with a dropand a massive decline. And when we get to 3 or 4 p.m., that's when often people reach for thatextra dose of caffeine or that like you said how many people was it 39% go for the confectionery right you're like oh it'safternoon slump i'll go for my chocolate bar that's like the time of day exactly and so then when they likebroke it down by what exactly people were reaching for 50% of people when the afternoon slump and cravings hitreach for biscuits cakes or pastries pastries 39% chocolate or confectionaries or sweeties 25% crisps 21% fizzledrinks or energy drinks. Yeah. And interestingly, they perceive, 57% of snackers already perceive
33:05that their usual afternoon choice, which is often a UPF item of food. Let's be honest,when we're low in energy, your brain also has an evolutionary adaptive response to want toseek for something that gives you energy fast. You're very unlikely to naturally crave at thattime of day hummus and carrot sticks. You are more likely to crave that UPF snack. Andthere's an element of psychology there and biology that are working together, what's intrinsicallybuilt into us habitually versus what the biology of our brain and our body needs. So it isn't a lack ofawareness because I think most people know, like this said, 60% of people know that UPFs probablyaren't helping them. So the issue is you're spiking again and causing another massive drop in blood sugar
33:50at this time of day, whereas actually what we need to be doing is having a think about our breakfast,snack, lunch, snack dynamic at work. And that is what will help alongside fresh air and a bit ofmovement because let's just go back to our previous movement headline. You're more likely toexperience energy slumps at 3pm if you haven't moved that day or got any fresh air as wellbecause you've had no external natural stimulants to help you combat it. And that is modern life,Ella, isn't it? It's really hard. It's really hard. Do you remember that trend we had, I don't know,six months ago, office space?Oh yes. Olivia Atwood said you've got office space.
34:30When you've sat in the office all day and you've like had too much caffeine and a couple too many snacks.And yeah, and you've just been in kind of artificial light and he haven't been outside.And this is just a normal. That's so normal. That's what like anyone in a kind of office environment generally experiences.But you're so right. Like often you do get to three o'clock and you're like, oh, I've had three coffees, one cup of water.quite a lot of, you know,someone's birthday, so there's cake,nor the rest of it.None of those things in isolation are bad,
34:58but it just,it's not then surprising you have this crash.It's too late by then,because it's happened and you've already set the footprint.You've got to look at it as,what analogy would Ella come up with here?Like, I'm setting out your map for the dayof what you're going to do,
35:12where at your route, your food, drink, exercise route,I don't know.Yeah, and do you know what?It's funny because sometimes, like, I don't know,I think lots of us are the same.You're not necessarily.desperate for breakfast at 7 in the morning before you leave the house.But I like, let me phrase this the right way.
35:29But in a way, I now, like if I know that's the case,and I'm getting the train into London,I know I won't be able to eat anything until lunchtime.Like I do actually make myself eat breakfast,even though not in a good one.So I was like, think about the wording.So I don't want to be like, I'm force feeding myself.But I'm not particularly hungry.
35:45Like I wouldn't choose to eat at 6.45 in the morning.But I'm like, I know otherwise it will get 10 in the morning.and I will get a little bit jittery from my coffee.I will feel really hungry.I won't have time to get a proper meal.And so I'll end up eating nothing wrong with it,but much more snacky stuff without all the balance around it.And I'm not going to feel great.
36:08Can we add in as well?Do you remember we have this conversation a lot about in an ideal dreamy world,people can intuitively eat as adults,just like people say children can.And this is the issue I have with some of these types of eating models,is that they do not fit with everyday life and jobs and pressures.And that sometimes the habitual routine in eating is far more beneficial for your long-term healthand the amounts that you can get in than trying to eat intuitively,
36:35which means, you know, when you feel hungry at 10 or 11 o'clock,which, let's be honest, it isn't practical if you're a teacher in a classroom.You can't just whip out your breakfast when you've got kids you're teaching in front of youor you're a hospital worker or you're in a meeting, a board meeting,in an office environment, like Ella said, I think sometimes there is definitely a hundred percenta case for more structured eating patterns. And it's about those types of choices we makewithin those structured eating patterns. You have to look at your life and how flexible you'reable to be. And then at the weekend, if you don't work weekends, that's when you can be
37:13flexible and you can wake up and be a bit more intuitive and enjoy your day with fluidity.And but you know what?That probably won't be helping your afternoon slump either.So there's two sides to it, Ella.Nutrition's so complex.It's so complex.But essentially, to try and avoid the afternoon slump, try and get a little bit more fresh air.Obviously, your night sleep is important.
37:36But just try and have balanced meals throughout the day.So you've got lovely good carbohydrates.Don't ignore them.That's not going to help either.But you've got nice balanced plates.You've got healthy fats.You've got good proteins.You've got lots of fibre on there.
37:49And you're much less likely to have this like intense crash.You might just feel little peckish or need a bit of a pick-me-up.But you might be able to achieve that a little bit more simply.Don't fear fruit.You know, if it's something sweet you need and your favorite food are berries like fresh raspberries or blueberries, that's great.You know, there's nothing wrong with fruit.I'm so fed up with the internet demonizing fruit, Ella, when they're then going for confectionery.I know.
38:14Well, this is interesting because obviously, as we said, this was done by a berry company.But the study showed this 2000 surveyed people that 29% people said they actively avoid or limit fruit because they're concerned about its sugar, which is so interesting.But actually, like, an apple with peanut butter would be a great snack.You know, even if you want to go and buy that apple with a toffee dip, that is, dare I say it, that is still slightly better than you going for a Mars bar or whatever other confectionery item is kicking in.It's still a halfway point to getting to that optimum nutrition goal because you're getting the benefits from the apple and the fibra and you won't experience the sugar as quickly into your bloodstream as you would with something else.So it's all swings and roundabouts and looking what your version in your food world of what you're capable of doing right now is.I think it's too extreme to say I'm just going to have grapes instead of the chocolate bar sometimes.You need like a halfway point and that's okay.
39:10No, I remember always saying that when we were building delicious yellow, like, yes, it would be great if you just swapped your Mars bar for an apple, but nobody is going to do that. It's about like gently shifting along a continuum as opposed to trying to be totally black and white in your thought process. I love that. So wonderful article to discuss. I feel like we can really pull away so many factors from it. So just remember, it's not your fault. It's totally natural. The working environment's hard, but let's motivate ourselves to try for a bit of fresher.try and take a toilet break even because it means you're going to walk to the bathroom and backand you can quickly get away from that lit environment for a little bit, drink more water,try and plan your meals if you are someone that finds yourself reaching for the decisionsthat probably aren't going to help you at that moment in time.Okay, and interestingly, we've got two things to talk about in our transaction today.But our first trend, BBC had an article saying sleep maxing is making.your sleep worse. Now, obviously, we have talked a lot about the maxing trends and maybe we could
40:19chill out and we don't need to max it all and we could just enjoy being average and doing a goodenough job at life because that's A.OK. Because it's actually, so probably doing a good enoughjob most days is probably going to have a much bigger impact over a decade in terms of tottingup the good habits versus being quote unquote perfect for a week and then it being too muchand quitting. But this article had two interesting new things to add to the conversation as to whyreally good enough and relaxing on the maxing might be excellent idea. Yes, I completely agree.Now, let's just paint the picture a little bit. We are talking about tracking your sleep here.So this means, is this people that are wearing all sorts of different devices that are telling them that
41:04Ella and I have actually discussed before? Because you might recall Ella had a aura ring and then youdecided that it wasn't having a positive impact. Do you want to share a little bit about that?Because I think that's a really interesting background before we go on to discuss. Oh my gosh,it was awful. I got it back in January so a little while ago now. And I was just so curious,right? Obviously, I work in this industry and wearables are a huge component of it. And I'd never triedtracking. And I'd never tried that optimization. And I thought, you know what? I think I probably should.You know, I always think it's important to know what you're talking about.Got an aura ring.
41:44And I almost haven't hated anything so much this year.I think it's probably the thing I hate the most this year.I mean, besides like the obvious like war and huge macro events that are destroying the world.But, you know, if we're talking on a small scale, things I hate.God, I hated my aura ring.Interestingly, I've given it to my sister and she really likes it.So that's great that someone's enjoying it.And so it does show we're all really different.
42:09And her reasons for doing it are very, very different.She has like a specific goal that she's working on health-related,which actually makes so much more sense.And I totally get it why she's using it.Whereas for me personally, I don't have any goals.Like, I generally feel quite well.And so it was like, you know, it would be for optimization as opposed to anything else.So this is where it gets blurry Ella,
42:34because you've just mentioned the difference between having a goalusing an active tracking tool versus just for optimization where there is no target.And I think that's where many people get conflicted.Yes, exactly.Interestingly, I can see exactly.I see how my sister's using it.And I'm like, that feels very beneficial.She has a health-related goal that she's looking at.
42:55She's trying to understand her body as a result of it.And it's giving her more information.That's really helpful for her.Whereas I was just curious and it would definitely be in the like, how can I optimize?And as a result, I found.it really stressful like it would tell me, you know, anyone who has lots to do in the morningbefore they get out of the house to get to work knows that hour or so, it is crunch time.And every morning would be like, you are so stressed.
43:22And I was like, I know, stop telling me I'm so stressed.I don't need you to tell me, I'm so stressed.It's so interesting you say that because whenever anyone's looking at scientific studies orlooking at research, they have what's called smart goals.And you might do in the office as well, which is specific measurable, attainable tracking,or I can't remember what the final point is.I should know that.But smart goals are really interesting because it has a start point and an end point.
43:48But when you are literally doing what Ella was saying she was trying to do,there is no end point and there is no real start point.No, it can always be more perfect.Yes.And there's this perpetual cycle.And sleep doctors actually say that sleep school,aren't recognised in sleep science.So Dr. Alana Hare, who's a consultant in sleep medicine at the Royal Brompton Hospital,
44:14told the BBC that there is no scientifically recognised measure called a sleep score.And the number we're given by our watch or our ring is just a commercial metrics,almost like the 10,000 steps a day thing, created by the individual manufacturer based on its ownalgorithm.So remember, it's not even grounded in which I'm not anti-tracking,by the way, in general, like I said, they have a place.But I think for so many people, I know I'm tired today.I'll know when I've got a newborn that I've not slept well.
44:45I don't need to see it.Yeah, it's interesting.Anyway, those were the two things this article picked up on.It's one doctor saying, just be aware before you feel you need to spend hundreds of poundson one of these devices that a sleep score to some extent is not real.It's not a scientifically kind of recognized premise.It's different for all of these devices based on their own measurements and algorithms.They're totally imperfect.
45:13They don't always get it right.And then what they also highlighted is a new study from University of Oxford where participantswere wearing sleep trackers.And I don't know which trackers in particular they were wearing.But they were then randomly.So they felt they were giving, they were wearing trackers and they thought they were getting an accurate sleep score.they weren't. They were randomly given sleep scores that had nothing to do with how they'd actually slept.And interestingly, to the next day after being given their random sleep score, the people who were told they'd slept badly,
45:43according to their tracker, reported feeling more fatigue and less mentally alert, despite the score being fake.Anyway, and you're getting all this anecdotal data as well from doctors saying clinically this is what they're seeing.Like people arriving at sleep appointments, worried because of their tracker data, convinced something's wrong,even if medical testing can be reassuring, which is so interesting.Anyways, obviously some people love their tracker.It's not so there's no time in place.But I think these are two interesting points to add to the conversation is don't feel pressured that you need one of these things.No, because there's a condition you might be, well, developing, which isn't healthy, called orthosomnia.
46:22It's not really recognised at the moment.I wonder if it will be in a few years.Let's watch this place.But it's basically the idea that the anxiety around getting perfect sleep,can make sleep itself harder, which I think rings true in so many areas when we put unrealisticexpectations on ourselves. I think it's just a good trend to flag, isn't it? Yeah, and if you're toldyou're so tired, you're going to have a hard day. You probably will have a hard day. It's likeliterally what we're talking about at the beginning of the episode, like trying to choose your mindset,
46:52trying to reframe your mindset. But if you have data telling you, like, be tired, be grumpy.Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, it is hard. And it's hard to mentally, mental resists.also comes into play and it's all different for all of us, which is why perhaps Tai Chi may be theanswer, Ella. So our second trend today is that Tai Chi gets a major evidence boost and the Guardianreported on what researchers say is the largest review of its kind looking at traditional Chineseexercises such as Tai Chi and Chi Gong for muscular skeletal conditions. And it wasn't a small study,Ella, it pulled evidence from 92 data synthesis covering 1,000.750 randomized control trials. I mean, that's a lot of good quality data that they've pulled together
47:37to kind of sift through. And they found there was high certainty evidence that these types ofexercises help our muscles. Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? There's 1.7 billion people in the worldwith muscular skeletal conditions. And what they found from Qigong and from Tai Chiwas that it supported physical function with people with osteoarthritis in their knees.It supported mental health of people with pain from osteoarthritis, again, in their knees, people with neck pain.It supported steep quality in people with fibromyalgia.It supported chronic muscular skeletal pain and stiffness.Even help bone mineral density in people with osteopenia and osteoporosis.
48:21And Tai Chi in particular came through very strongly, actually, with these outcomes.So it's really interesting.Anyways, probably unsurprising, you know, one session wasn't the answer to it.the big benefits were seen when people are practicing for more than six months around three times a week.So they have got sort of 150 minutes a week, as we're talking about with the exercise goal.They have this 150 minutes a week coming from these traditional Chinese exercises.But they're relatively accessible.They're pretty low cost.
48:51They're really nice complement conventional treatments.They're kind of available.And something that lots of people can access.You've got amazing, obviously, online resources now for all of these.sorts of things. And I think as much as sometimes, you know, we all kind of slay and feel frustratedwith the online world. Actually, like I always remember, it is amazing if you can go to YouTube andwatch a YouTube video, watch a yoga video, watch a Tai Chi video, or do a meditation. You know,these are amazing resources that we just didn't have available to us like this 15 years ago.
49:20But I think it's always cool when we see evidence for all these different practices and how they cansupport our health and a reminder that, you know, there's so much.much benefit from moving the body, from eating more plants. The whole episode feels very coherentslightly accidentally today in terms of these very small little habits that genuinely move the dial.And I think at this time of year, as it gets darker and darker and colder and colder andrainier and rainier and grayer and it's harder to motivate yourself, it's such a nice reminderthat you don't need to overhaul your whole life. You can enjoy cozy season and bonfire nightand nice hot chocolates with marshmallows and, you know, Thanksgiving parties and mold wine and
50:04all these lovely occasions and Halloween and all the rest of it. But you can do these little thingsday to day to support your blood sugar, you know, a balanced snack, your porridge with almond butterand Greek yogurt or whatever it is, these little things. And they will add up to really,really shifting the dial on your health. And so it is those like little habits. It's not an overhaul.I agree, and they're low cost. They don't have to cost anything. In fact, even just going to do like a downward dog in your bedroom or something, you know, before you go to bed, none of us actually, if you don't practice yoga, it can feel really odd, can't it, to put your body in a different position. And actually, that type of thing's probably really beneficial. So that's what I'm going to try and do today. I'll have maybe 10 minutes of a free online little movement video on YouTube or something at home.Yeah, it's even like, you know, the classic squat.the kettle's boiling. But just a little stretch while the cattle's boiling, like, you don't haveto necessarily squat, but just like move your arms from side to side. Feels nice. It does. What a
51:07wonderful episode. Well, we hope, I hope you all think it was a good episode. As always,you can rate it. Give us a rate it. Be honest. And we will be back on Thursday with our extrascoop, Ella. Yes, as always, we're here on Thursday. This week, we are going to be talking aboutwhether you can break a long-term habit.Could any of us break a 10-year habit?How would we do it?We're going to be talking about the link and questions you havebetween protein and weight loss.
51:36We've got a little bit more on electrolytesbecause they keep going.Is going cold turkey the best approachwhen you need to make a change?What about dark chocolate before bed?All sorts of questions from you guysand as always, loads and loads of recommendationsboth from us and from you guys.
51:51So we have buckets to go through.I can't wait.I can't wait.Have a great week, everyone.Bye.Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass.Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered.Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month.
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