The Why Files: Operation Podcast - 627: Mike Bara - Kennedy Assassination, Moon Conspiracy and NASA's Lies | #00002

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

Mike Bara spent 25 years in aerospace working on Boeing 757, 767, F-35, and classified military programs before co-authoring the New York Times bestseller Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA with Richard C. Hoagland.A frequent Ancient Aliens contributor and author of seven books on suppressed space discoveries, Bara uses his aerospace engineering background to challenge official narratives about extraterrestrial artifacts and secret technology programs. Starting as a Boeing draftsman in 1979, he advanced through experience on compartmentalized black programs, giving him unique insight into defense contracting and classified operations. He connects Roswell, the JFK assassination, and current Congressional UFO hearings, arguing that anti-gravity technology has existed since the 1960s and ancient civilizations left engineering marvels across our solar system.

Today we're talking with Mike Barra. Mike spent 25 years working in the aerospace industry at Boeing before becoming one of the most controversial researchers in ancient astronaut theory. He co-authored the New York Times bestseller Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA, and has since written seven books about NASA cover-ups and evidence of ancient alien civilizations on the moon and Mars.

You've seen them over 100 times on ancient aliens. Yeah, rookie numbers. I've been saying this stuff for years. Before a history chat, I'll even know what a lizard people. was. Oh, really? Human? I've been talking about this stuff since the History Channel used to do history shows. Today, we're covering a lot of ground. We're going to talk about Roswell and MJ12, the Kennedy assassination, and how it might connect to the space program, what NASA may have

been really looking for on the moon, and the current state of disclosure, which Mike has some strong opinions about. I'll tell you right now, Mike connects some dots that I hadn't thought about before. His theory about who the second shooter was in Dallas? That one caught me off Guard. Only two shooters. I know more than that. It was basically a CIA assassin convention. A convention, huh? Of course. You know how old those

conventioneers in Vegas go to strip clubs? Yeah. Wouldn't these guys in Dallas go to a strip club? Jack Ruby strip club? Actually, they did. Uh-huh. You're welcome. This is a long one, but it was a lot of fun. I think you're going to like it. Let's go downstairs.

Welcome, Mike. Thank you for having me. This is great. I've been wanting to have this conversation with you for about three years. Same. Same. I know you've answered this question a zillion times, but you started in the military industrial complex. Yeah. So you were in aerospace?

Can you just... And make it as long or as short as you want. Okay. But how do you go from working in Boeing to writing bestsellers attacking NASA? Well, it didn't sell that well, but it sold pretty well. Well, because I'd always had this interest, right, in UFOs and aliens. And that goes back to the question I usually get, which is, you know, what got you into this? Which is a whole separate thing.

But it was kind of like, you know, I was coming out of high school in 1979. Well, what was going on then? The Jimmy Carter Depression. Right. And there were no jobs. And the only job I really could get was a burger flipping job, right? And my dad was a relatively high executive at Boeing, should have been a vice president. president there's a lot of you know politics and Boeing just like anywhere else i lived in

seattle and i went to college for a year and all i was doing was party you know i i just i wasn't i was wasting my mom and dad's money and i didn't think i wanted to be an engineer so i said you know can you just how about if you just can you get me a job of bowing and he said yeah i can probably get you into a drafting class and back then you could do in eight weeks Boeing we teach you in eight weeks what did you to your associate degree right it was the same thing i got an associate degree somewhere i don't know where it is so they got you got me in and drafting would be what design drafting was no not not really design it's just simply an engineer gives you a part and you put it on the draft board and you you know you ink it or you use uh graphite pens on mylar and that's how we did it back then

and that gets photocopied into microfiche and print out the paper and you know it was really interesting We're really dating ourselves. We are. I'm old. I mean, I'm not going to pretend that I'm 45. I am not. Same. But, you know, that's how I got started.

So then I'm working there. And then, you know, things go on. You start earning a little bit of money. My starting salary at Boeing, $10,300 a year. And I thought I was rich because I was actually, by that time, I moved back home. I was living at home. So you're having a good time. You're partying.

You meet a girl. I got married. I get a mortgage. And so I become, you know, eventually as you work at a company like Boeing experience, becomes more important than college. So eventually get into design work and stuff. And I worked on all kinds of programs. I started on the 757 when it was a brand new airplane.

And that was fun and exciting. And I met some of the most brilliant guys there. Any classified stuff that you worked on? And then I got into, I worked, well, if I go down a list, MX Missile, that was classified, to a certain extent, so I had some security clearances. MX missile, joint-un-man combat air system was classified, F-35, those were later. 757, 7667, 747, 7-3-7, Saudi tanker, a whole bunch of stuff. And so you just kind of are doing that.

But I always had this interest still in the UFOs and aliens and all that. Going back as a kid? My first memory, my first memory literally is on my parents' black and white 10-inch TV watching Gemini 6 not get off the ground. Then they tried it again two days later and it didn't get off the ground. One time the engine even started and then they shut it down. That's like the earliest memory I have as a kid. So, you know, I didn't watch Star Trek and lost in space and get interested in aliens and UFOs. I watched them because I was born that way.

So you just get caught up in all this other stuff, being a member of the military industrial complex, and believing the whole left versus right, you know, Democrats, Republicans thing until you wake up later. But I always had that other thing in the back of my mind that I really wanted to do, but just practical life takes over. And wasn't until I was around 30 that I started thinking,

maybe I want more than this. I'm interested in more than just this. Well, how did you leave the industry? I kind of got retired. I see. Well, no, it was, I was, by the time we got into the late 90s, early 2000s,

I had met Richard C. Hoagland. Can I say his name, Richard? That's fine with me. Hogan. And we were working together on his website, the enterprise edition.com, and I was writing articles for him about NASA and all this other stuff.

because I knew they were liars. I mean, our audience knows art bells show very well. And Hoagland's appearances were always great. Legendary, I think, yeah. And so, you know, I was doing that as a side thing, but I was making good money. And one day, though, I would always get in trouble because I talk a lot. I love to talk. You know that.

You love to talk, too. And I finally, somebody once said to me, who is it, Tom DeBolt, he said, dude, he goes, you got this new computers coming out, the innovation of the 3D computers. You're pretty smart. Why don't you go work on that side of the ball? Why don't you get paid for what you used to get in trouble for?

I thought, that's a really good idea. So that became like how I started sort of performing, and because that's essentially what teaching is. It's performing. So I started teaching the software, which paid a lot better, which is like what, CAD, CAD, CAD, Camp stuff, yeah, 3D stuff. There was a software called Kitea, C-A-T-I-A,

computer-a-3-dimensional interactive application, made by the French. Terrible, but it was great to me, right? Now, when you were writing for Richard, were you still in touch with your colleagues in aerospace? Yeah, and I was still working in aerospace companies. Did you tell them what you were doing? Yeah, they knew.

Everybody knows, they checked, you know. I mean, I had to get a, I had to get a, I had to get a very deep security clearance in 2012. And, you know, they were asking me questions. I'm like, wow, how do you know about that? Yeah. So everybody knows and knew all that, but it never got me into any trouble in the business.

But it's probably because I just wasn't working on anything important enough. And then when Dark Mission comes out and becomes a bestseller, I mean, you're humble about that, but that was a New York Times bestseller. did you expect that to happen? Kind of. You did? Yeah, you were that confident.

Well, because Richard had access to art first and then George, Norrie. Right. And George was very good to him. And gosh, when that book came out, he was on almost twice a week talking about it. And it just sold and sold and kept selling. I bought it. Yeah. And it was, you know, I mean, I'm not really proud of that particular book because

it was a very difficult process working with Richard. He's very, very perfectionist, and wants things his way, and I won't go into that too much. But it was not the most easy process of writing. Like, when I got done, finally, I remember I was looking at this computer screen, right, at my apartment back in Seattle. I've now gone back to Seattle. And I'm like, there's this paragraph.

And you complain about how I write a little bit. But it was literally two-thirds of the page. okay and it was not only one paragraph it was one sentence punctuation no there were oh no there was nothing but punctuation so like when you complain you know when because i i've written a few things for you guys and you complain about i don't use punctuation it's because of that experience because richard used i mean literally colon semicolon comma comma comma i mean anything you can think of he used in a paragraph right and never got to a period except a period he didn't use that and i remember i remember i remember

the publisher, Adam Parfrey, rest in peace, whose father, by the way, was in Planet of the Apes. He was one of the... I didn't know that. Yeah, and Dirty Harry, you know, he's the, he's the, um, diner owner at the first scene of the year. Anyway, Adam, Adam was like,

this thing is going out at midnight tonight, no matter what state it's in. And I remember looking at that paragraph going, I just can't do this. I just can't rewrite another word. Yeah. And the next day, I didn't feel too good. I went to the urgent care, and they said, well, your blood sugar is 363.

Wow. So I don't know. So anyway, that was an interesting experience. Well, you may not be proud of it, but a lot of it still holds up, and it's still a great read. So, I mean, I recommend everybody, I'd go check it out. What I mean about that book, it's just for me, like, the prose is not what I would like to be, right? It's not, the words are not the way I would structure them. because it was, because like Richard has his style and I have my style.

And, and I would write a chapter and I would send it to him and it would come back sounding like him, which is okay. And then I would send it to the publisher and he would go, I can't understand any of this. And so then I would sneakily rewrite it without Richard knowing, you know. So now Richard's going to know. But so it was just a really difficult process. So when I say I'm not proud of it, it's because I would have put it together differently and structured it differently. But the information in it, I will stand by pretty much everything in there. It's still to this day.

I'm surprised at how open you're being about your relationship with Richard, because I wasn't going to bring it up. Right. You know, because I know about that rift, but I didn't know how deep it was or if it was healed or. I don't think it's that deep. Like, he and I, he is the reason I'm doing. this literally because he gave me he gave me a place to stake out my own territory in this business right which was extraordinarily generous of him but where it is is that we were talking about dark mission two and I said look I don't want to go through that experience again so if we're going to do

dark mission two and really dark mission should have been three books it should have been a book about Mars a book about the moon and a book about the secret societies which is kind of what I'm doing with yep you know now um I'd I just said, I can't go through that process again. You need to, you know, give me your part of it, and I'm going to rewrite it so people can flow with it better. And I'm not going to send it back to you. I only want your comments for content because it just took too much out of me.

And he didn't want to do that. And then I decided, okay, well, maybe I'll go off and do something else on my own. and that became the choice, which is about physics and the spirituality and all and stuff. I kind of went off in a little different direction. I was trying to oppress a girl. No, seriously, it's dedicated to it. Sometimes that works.

And then Giorgio helped me get on ancient aliens. I didn't know that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because Giorgio, you know, I knew him. Well, before we get to that, because I definitely want to talk about that. How did Richard feel when you went out on your own? He got jealous.

He did. Yeah. Okay. But it wasn't any kind of an open riff. Like, I've never said anything bad about him in public, about his work or profession. I don't believe he has about me either. You haven't said anything bad about him in private. No.

And thank you. And he, so it's a situation now where, like, when something comes up, I'll send him an email and say, hey, we got proven right again. Because there's a couple of things, the Mars title model that I think we've really have held up well for 25 years. And he's fine. He responds to me, but we don't talk. We don't, we're not like, we don't call each other up once a year. How you doing? How's the kids? You know, none of that stuff. His girlfriend did pass away in 2018. We had some exchanges then. And they were, they were very cordial, but it was email. And then, you know, I think it was last year. I got a phone call

and I pick it up, and it's him. And he didn't, he didn't know it was me, didn't know was my number. So he accidentally, you know, butt dialed me or something. So it's kind of like we're at a distance, but for me it's a respectful distance. Okay. Because, I mean, not to be a dick, but when I walk into a room, my feeling is, my ego tells me, you're the smartest guy in this room there. Except, like, when I'm around you. Stop it.

That could be challenged. But when I'm around Hoagland, I'm like, I am not the smartest guy in this room. He is. I think that's exciting. That's exciting, isn't it? Yeah. Well, it is. But I'm at, yeah, it would be like, it would be like,

I saw a picture of Bono and David Bowie once. And I thought about Bowie and I thought, what would it be like to go through your life knowing that at every given moment you're the coolest person in the room? And it's kind of the same thing. So I just, you know, I'm just like, this guy is so intelligent

and the intellect is just off the scale. It was a great communicator. Yeah. And he could communicate. in a way that I could grasp, right? Some people say, oh, this guy just goes on and on and on. But it was a UN video. I was working at Boeing, and the UN video about the Face

on Mars, I walked by this room, and it's a lunch break, and there's all my colleagues are in there watching this old VHS, and there's this guy talking about the face on Mars. I remember the Face on Mars. Didn't they say it disappeared? Yep. And he's going through everything. And he would go through, and every time

I would formulate a question, there's the answer coming out of his mouth. Yeah, I can't wait. We're going to do a whole show on Mars. I have sort of a rundown here about going back Roswell, MJ12, all the way up to disclosure. But before we get there, do you want to talk about ancient aliens? And I can't research anything without seeing your face. You're on every show. Oh, that's awesome. And there's more coming soon, I hope. Okay. Yeah. So ancient alien, we've all seen it's a monster. Yeah. And you said Georgia got you on that show? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, that's the thing. I've been lucky enough to work for you guys a little bit and contribute something to some of your shows, which I've mostly, it's the hecklefish. You know, the nice beaver thing. That was the longest prop us up. That was a good job.

But yeah, it's a cultural phenomenon. It really is. And so is this show. And it's like, wow, I'm privileged to be part of two cultural phenomenons in one lifetime. And it was just that I had known Georgio. You know, we'd go to college. conferences, we drink, you know, and just had a good time. And he was not much of a big deal at all. And in like 2009, there were some people that I was working with that wanted to do a

2012 documentary. And it was, I think it was Conscious Life Expo in L.A. And I said, hey, Georgie, you know, we're doing this thing. You want to come on and talk about 2012, right? And so I got him in and, you know, we didn't pay him anything, but we got him in and he didn't sit down for an interview for that doc. And then I guess what must have happened is, you know, a year, six months later, he had pitched ancient aliens to Kevin Burns and they bought it. And so they did the first season. And then, you know, Philip Coppins passed away, sadly, after the first season. And they, they wanted to expand the cast in season two. And I guess he threw my name in the hat. Because one day, I got an email or a phone call. I don't remember. And season two, I'm in the cast. So that was very,

And then you were a mainstay on that show. So what's it like to be on that? Like, um, now, you've done it. You know. I, I have different than it was then. I know that. But people watching and listening don't know. So I want to hear your version of it.

I've told mine. Well, you get, you get there, you have your own trailer and your own staff, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Catering for you. Hair and makeup person. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. They, they, they spare no expense on the hair and makeup, that's for sure.

They spare every expense. Go ahead. Well, it's TV. Isn't it sad? Like, we both lived in L.A. for a while, I think you longer than me. Isn't it sad? Like, how much better everything would be if people were just a little generous? You know?

It's like, you don't really have to be, like, why do you have to steal every penny? Right, right? Like, I remember the Ron Moore and Brandon Brager who wrote Star Trek The Next Generation. They were running out of scripts and they came up and down the West Coast and said we're looking for writers. So I went to one of the shows, right? And I submitted a script, which obviously they didn't buy, they didn't buy. And so are my brother.

And it's like, we each had scenes out of our scripts that appeared in episodes later of that season. Ooh, I've heard that quite a bit. And you know how much they would have had to pay us if they'd simply acknowledge that it was our scene and not theirs? 900 bucks. Mm-hmm. Okay.

You have a show that's probably got a $1.7 million budget back in 89 or 90. And you can't pay, you can't just give me $900 and say, good job. Anyway, I don't understand that mentality. What episode was that? I want to look into that. Well, I don't know. I got it. I have to go back and rewrite it.

But no, there's one. Dave's scene was Picard and Beverly having breakfast. And it's like literally like, you know, the next half season or something. There they are. And I go, that's your scene. He goes, I know. Anyway. So ancient aliens, those shows.

Yeah. They're fun to do. They're not as glamorous. No, they're not as glamorous. So they, you know, they set. up a place to shoot. One of the places ancient aliens, like, you're not probably going to use this, but I'm going to tell you anyway, because it's a hilarious story. One of the places ancient aliens uses is a house, I forget exactly where, like Silmar, it's outside of town, where they shoot

porn, right? Okay. I'm definitely keeping this out. Not that I ever have, not that I ever have watched that, but I was hilarious because I'm, I don't know, there's some girls, I'm porn star, right? Wait, they're shooting porn at this... No, no, no, not at the same time. But it's like three days before she posts all these pictures of this house. I, I don't know, I messaged her and I said, I was sitting on that same couch yesterday. And she goes, I hope they cleaned it. Anyway, so they just pick up place, a location that looks cool and they dress the set.

And they do a great job of that. They do. And then... But look, a day of watching Mitch Yokaku and porn is a great day for a lot of viewers. Let's be honest. Yeah, we're not going to use that. But so they, you know, they sit you down. Yep.

And you've been given, what is this discussion going to be about? What episodes are we doing? And usually they give you the questions most of the time, not always, but here's the questions we want. And of course, unlike most guys, I was actually getting paid to be on ancient aliens, which from the very beginning, which was really cool. and because a lot of the guys that you see on there didn't get paid.

They didn't? No, a lot of the, it was a privilege to be on ancient aliens, which it kind of was. Okay. I was lucky. They wanted to lock me down. I'm very happy to hear you say that you get the information in advance because I tell, because I contribute to the unexplained, same production company, and I tell the audience, look, I get the questions, I get recommended answers.

You know, we get it all in advance. Yeah. Well, they didn't do that. So with ancient aliens, it was now this is what we want to talk about. This is what we're going to ask you, what's your answer? And so then it's my job to come up with a juicy sound bite that they can plug into the episode, right? So that's what I'm focused on is what can I give you in 10 or 15 seconds that's going to look really good and feel really good and they're going to want to use. So that's how it works.

and you just sit down and, you know, usually they got all food there, some snacks. And, you know, I got very comfortable with, got used to the production assistants and camera people and producers, you know. It's fun. It feels like doing TV to me. I'm going back in February to do a couple. But, yeah, but it, you know,

when you're on my side of the aisle, it's FaceTime. So take the FaceTime. Of course. Yeah. So our bookends, at least to me, are 1947 and current disclosure. What's the best way to approach this to make this digestimal? Do we start at MJ12 or do we talk about what's going on now? So I think you and I have a lot of agreement on the current disclosure.

I think we are in agreement on disclosure. I think we start now. I don't know. I feel like I want to start now with the now. Okay. And if it feels weird in the end, we'll switch it around. Well, the thing is, there's a, I believe there's an agenda, a hidden agenda, available on Amazon.com.

Oh, you just plugged a book. Yeah. Nice. I think there's, I think there's an agenda that probably got started back then. In 47. That's leading up to today. Yeah. Maybe we should start in 47, I don't know.

Okay, let's start in 47. Is it the Roswell crash or is it, because Grush says it's before, I'm not. Well, there were other crashes probably. before that. Of course. Okay. But I think, but 47 is what kicked Truman. That's what kicked the national security state as they call it into high gear, right? Right. So what happened at Roswell? I gave, I don't know. Okay. Okay. I think it might have been aliens. It probably was, but there's another possibility, which I gave to you a script once. And I was like, either he didn't read it or he doesn't buy it at all. But by the way, are you related to Giovanni Gentilly? No.

I mean, it's possible. Okay. The father of Italian fascism, right? Anyway, so there had been other crashes. There are strong rumors and some evidence of a crash in, I think, 1935 in Fascist Italy, which I don't remember if you guys have covered that yet. No. And then there's the Cape Girardeau crash in 1942,

where they say they got the fiber optic technology and all and stuff. But then the key thing is, of course, Roswell in 1947. Now, Roswell was probably... aliens, but it might not have been because as an aerospace guy, I have this sort of aerospace mentality, right? So you have Kenneth Arnold, who's flying to eastern Washington near Mount Rainier, and he sees five, six, seven of these things, skipping around and flying really fast. And he says, it was like if you skipped a saucer across a lake. That's right. and flying saucer.

But his description starts to bother me because he's like, well, they were wobbling and being really erratic and going really fast. And I'm like, what does that sound like? Well, I don't know. And then I saw his sketch,

which I'd never seen before. What did he actually sketch? And it's a wing. Yes. Flying wing, Delta, shit. It looks like a Delta wing. It actually looks like kind of like the bottom half

of the war machines from the 1953 War of the Worlds? Yes, it does. It looks like that, even with the little bulbous thing. And I'm like, wow, that's really weird. And then as an aerospace guy, I used to build scale models and stuff. And I thought, and I had been working on the J.U.CAS

or joint unmanned combat X-47B, which was a flying wing. Yep. And I remembered the chairman's damn near built a flying wing. Horton H. H.O. 229. And you take the H.O.229, and you compare it to what he drew, and it looks really close. And do you know why flying wings never worked until the B2?

No. Because it's an inherently unstable airframe, meaning it wobbles all over the place, and it does things you're not predicting and you don't expect it to do. So until we had computer control systems that could micro-adjust the elevants, you couldn't really keep a flying wing under control.

They were too erratic. So I'm sitting there thinking, well, we didn't have computers, in 47, but we did recover this prototype and all the plans and all the scale up plans for this. So if you took those plans and you said, okay, well, this is a really interesting aerospace idea that the Germans had, let's develop this. Let's build some prototypes ourselves and test them. And they built five or six of these suckers, right? And we're fresh off Operation Paperclip now, right? So let's try it all. Jet engines? Right.

which accounts for the 1,250 mile an hour speed or so, whatever he said it was. I don't think they were supersonic, come to think of it, but they were fast. They were faster than anything in the air at the time. And it accounts for the wobbling. And then I looked really close at his sketch.

And it's like, okay, the H.O. 229 has the cockpit right at the very tip of the spear. This thing that he drew is back 10, 15 feet. Well, do you know how you stabilize an airframe? How? You move the center of gravity back to the airspace. towards the middle. And the armor and weight, the ballast you could put in

is what you would put around the cockpit. The cockpit in the wing box are the heaviest, and the empennage on an airplane are the heaviest parts. So I'm like, I think that these are, these are a modification of this German plane. Now, where would you test something like that? Well, in 1947, right now Tacoma, there's, Tacoma, Washington is where we record Air Force base is.

Yep. There's millions of people living there. In 1947, there was nobody. It was one of the most isolated regions of the country. So wouldn't it be dangerous to fly experimental aircraft in formation around a mountain? You're up there to test. You got to test it, right? Okay.

You know, it doesn't do you any good to test if you don't challenge the airframe. You don't find anything out that way. So you think Roswell was a... Well, here's what I think. I think they flew these things up there. I think Arnold spotted them. It created a sensation like the next day. By the time he landed in Yakima,

the press was waiting for him. That's right. Based on the radio reports. And then I think the military went, holy crap, they saw our German planes. What are we going to do? Well, where do we have that's more isolated than McCord?

How about Roswell? It was just even more isolated. So they moved it to Roswell. Two weeks later, one of these things crashes on MacBrasall's farm. Then if it's just an experimental aircraft that crashes, and I kind of have my own answer to this question, why bother with MJ12 then? Why create that?

That's the part that doesn't add up about my pet theory. It's not my pet theory. Somebody else came up with it first, but I went and figured it out, agreed with it. That's the problem. Because if it wasn't an alien spacecraft at Roswell, if it was just an experimental flying wing aircraft. Why not in 1994 or 1998?

Why did they come up with this ridiculous mogul weather balloon when they could have just said it was an experimental aircraft that we had obtained from the Germans? Which would have been fine? Which would have been fine. And the only thing I can think of is the reason is either it really was aliens

or the reason they didn't go that way is because there was something about the relationship with Nazi Germany and our military that was so, so incredibly destabilizing that they couldn't afford to go there. So they came up with an even dumber explanation. So. Now, I've covered this before about Operation Paperclip,

famous for 1,1,200 scientists coming over. But the real reason for that operation was to bring 10,000 Nazis over to be intelligence assets here. And they lived here till a ripe old age. That's what that op was. And the scientists, of course, were very useful, but I consider that mostly a cover story. Yeah, we didn't have an American rocket program.

We had a German rocket program. That's correct. Yeah. That's correct. So then, yeah, that makes me think then why MJ12, which I think, I think we disagree, but I believe it definitely existed. And I'm 90% positive it was called MJ12. It was Majestic 12.

That's a real thing. I know Whitley Streber has had people talk to him and tell him in the military that, yeah, it really existed. they call it something else now. Right. I mean, it's attributed to so many other people. I mean, the list that goes, William Moore, Doty, Shanderet, all these people.

Have you read Stan Friedman's book on it, Top Secret Magic? Sure. You know, really thorough, really detailed. Yeah. So then that brings me back to aliens. But then when you get to the aliens, you know, you have all these people now that, oh, yeah, my dad, my grandfather was there. He saw the bodies.

The bodies didn't come into the discussion until later. If you go back to Stan Friedman's original work on In Search of, hosted by Leonard Nimoy. I used some of that footage. Yeah. Oh, they did? I did. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, that's right.

He didn't describe any of that. Nope. And if he didn't know it, who would know it? So it's like the mythology got built on more and more, and more detail was added to it. So I absolutely know something crashed. I know it was not, I'm not going to say it was not of this earth, but I know it was not something conventional. And when you put together the timeline of the movements for that episode,

which I found absolutely amazing, something huge happened in that desert, absolutely huge that they were totally concerned about. Do you believe the theory that there was a second crash? Yeah, probably. I do. Probably. And, you know, it's even possible some of the very fanciful speculation that, oh, well, we were using radar and they didn't use radar and it just somehow interfered with their guidance system.

That's plausible, too. You know, it's possible that they have some technology so far beyond that, a scalar tech that they didn't, it didn't ever occur to them. Oh, we're going to run into this and it's going to mess up our, you know, we're going to crash. Right. If it's certainly a brand new tech. So the stories of the bodies and things could be from the second crash site and could be conflating. with the brazzle. So do you believe in the theory

about the meeting between Eisenhower and 52? Yeah. If you do, and it's cool if you do, but I would, so Bridget from, we've got Majestic 12, and I think most of us know who those men were.

How do we get to Eisenhower because there's a change of administration now, so there has to be some internal disclosure. Well, you read, you read the original. J-12 briefing document and it tells him everything. It tells him everything he needs to know. This is a situation.

Welcome to the presidency. You know, you don't have to. Not the economy isn't the big problem. The big problem is we've got these people coming here from somewhere else. And by the way, I want to make it really clear. I do at this point believe that it was an alien spacecraft of some kind that crashed in or near Roswell. But I think we ought to look at the other theory until we can completely just.

discount it. So that's all I'm saying about that. But how you get there is that he's confronted with all this. And by then, Truman has created MJ12. He's created, you know, CIA. They're getting ready to off Forrestall because he's not cooperating. Oh, he didn't jump out of that window. Oh, no. With his pajama draw strings around. First, he strangled himself and then threw himself out the window before it, because I'm not dead enough yet. I'm going to throw myself out the way. Right. And personal friends with the Kennedys, which is fascinating to me.

Yeah, I want to get into that, too. And so, you know, this thing, this is when I believe the shift started to happen in Eisenhower's administration. When you went through into the episode, you know, the reality is he was not accounted for during that period. And the dental thing seems there's no evidence of that, right? no proof that says he had any dental work done. Right.

For your guys, that's, that's, um, Eisenhower disappeared for a day out in Palm Springs and like nobody knew her he was, including Secret Service. Yeah. And the excuse was he was at the dentist. Oh my God. And I've got such a great other presidential story to tell you about, about presidents doing that. Not just Nixon, but one about it, W. Bush. Let's hear it.

You want to throw it right now? Yeah. Okay. So in part of hanging around with Hoagland, I met a lot of people that were hanging around him and He had some friends and God, what was this guy's name? I don't want to get your name wrong, but I don't know. I forget his name, but Phil, right? Let's just call him Phil.

And he had a girlfriend and they were supporters of Richard and they would hang out in New Mexico. So 2007 or so, I think it was the first time I did the Roswell conference. I'm hanging out with this guy. And he's a normal young guy in his 30s, you know, a little bit of a pothead. But he had just gotten back from Europe. And he starts telling a story. and I said, okay, well, there was your story? He goes, well, we went to Renly Chateau,

where they supposedly have the remains of Mary Magdalene, right? Okay. And because we got in, we landed. Well, that's the story. That's the Da Vinci Code story. It is. And, you know, we landed and, you know, I couldn't sleep, jet lag and all that. So I forget where they were.

I don't think it was Paris. I forget where Religious. But anyway, it was like a two-hour drive. So they were wide awake. They decided to drive down to Renly Chateau. It's three in the morning by the time they get there, and they're hanging out in the parking lot, and they're looking around,

and they see this other car over in the corner. The parking lot just sitting there. And he's like, oh, I wonder who that is. I don't know, you know, this place is pretty cool. Shhh, shh, shh, car starts up. Lights come on. Car starts driving slowly through the parking lot, comes around towards them very slowly.

The street lights, the lights in the parking lot, lot flashed down so you can see the driver who's the driver george w bush no all by himself no secret service and guess what he was in paris that day that time for the g7 summit or something wow and i'm like okay give me a break right but when the guy was telling me the story he was shaking Yeah. Because what he had seen had so upset his worldview. Wait a minute. The president slipped away by himself in his own car,

drove himself to run Lee Chappelle. And like you could tell that his whole world was shattered as to how he thought things really worked. Now, I mean, there's, I think I just wrote. But I believe the guy. I believe him too. But I just wrote three jokes about why George W. would be by himself in a car out.

But we won't tell them. You want to write those down before we move on, so Heckelfish can use them? Do you think, speaking of GW, do you think presidents are briefed in, or they read into this program every time? Not every time. I don't think they are.

Not every time. And they're right into a limited degree. So that's what I was going to try to get to is I believe that the Eisenhower thing was probably when they decided to start holding stuff back from presidents. Because MJ12, I'm speaking up. Because the decision, you know, the story goes, you read the story, that they said, we're going to offer you a whole new world.

But Eisenhower goes back and says, well, if we do that, it'll ruin our economy and we won't have an economy anymore. We won't be able to sell oil. And we can't do that. It'll ruin our economy. And I think that when that was hanging in the air, that MJ12 sitting there going, wow, if they reveal, first of all, if they reveal aliens, we're out of business. That's number one. Number two, every nefarious thing we've ever done could come out and then we're probably dead. And I think that at the point they were like, this is a risk we can't take anymore. So that's when they started deciding

that they were going to exclude presidents. And that's what would make sense why Eisenhower, he probably got less and less information from them as his administration went on, which leads to the military industrial complex farewell speech. I was just going to ask you about that. Was that a wink? It might have been a wink that these guys are accumulating

too much power. Oh, it was more than a wink. It was a direct blood warning. I mean, absolutely. And also, I think, a warning to President Kennedy, because Kennedy, you know, knew so much by that time. He probably knew about Roswell already. And remember Eisenhower told Kennedy, watch out for the CIA. For the CIA. Right. And so he, you know, he knew all that. They were just like, by the time Kennedy gets here, we're going to cut them out. We're just not going to risk because the president is a civilian officer. He can only serve eight years. We can survive eight years.

We're just going to cut them out. Now, you contrast that with, you know, Jimmy Carter talking about UFOs, and he's going to release all the UFO information he ever did. And then the Reagan thing, you know, Reagan told us over and over and over again that were aliens. How many different ways did he tell us? Right. So many ways. And we've got this fleet in space that can hold all these people.

Well, yeah. You know, I think it was 1992 campaign. Reagan, no, it couldn't have been, was it 92? Reagan made four appearances for George Herbert Walker Bush. Right, that was Bush Clinton. Yeah. He only made four. That's all he was willing to do.

One of them was in the state of New Mexico. Interesting. Did you know that? Nope. Which is, by the way, I think a state that Bush had locked up pretty easily. I would think so. Five or six points. I don't remember.

I'd have to go back and look, but it wasn't a swing state. And do you know where he made his campaign appearance? on the airfield, Roswell, right in front of the hangar where they brought the bodies and the wreckage after. Why would they do that? He's trying to tell you the truth. I think, just tell us. Not to get, no partisan politics, right?

There are three presidents that I believe have tried to tell us the truth about aliens and UFOs. Kennedy, Reagan, and Trump. The one thing they all have in common, they all got shot. Yep. So let's talk about then.

You're not going to use that, but that's okay. I'm using all of this. The JFK Forrestall connection, I didn't really know too much about that because Kennedy would have been like in 20s. Yeah, well, Kennedy... Forestall killed in 47, 48? 49.

I believe Forrestall died or was killed. A lot of that comes from Michael Sala, who a nice guy. He did a lot of this research. And other people, there's the strange death of James Forrestall. Did you read that book? That I read all of Michael stuff.

I wish I could read as fast as you. I'd be so smart if I could read like that, but I just can't. Forrestall was a friend of the Kennedy family. He and Joe, senior, worked together. They were both involved in insider trading on Wall Street. That's how they made their fortunes. But it was legal back then. Being Nancy Pelosi was legal back then.

Another thing you're not going to be able to use it. So that's how they made their fortunes and bootlegging. And bootlegging. The Kennedys, obviously. So he was a family friend. He played golf frequently with Joe, senior, and he knew the boys. Joe Jr. and John, you know, and John was the second son. John was the party boy.

He wasn't supposed to have to carry the mantle, but Joe Kennedy obviously really wanted to be the first Irish Catholic American president. And he blew his opportunity in World War II when he suggested that the British should just surrender to the Nazis and ran away from the London Blitz. That kind of ends your political career. It does. And so it wasn't going to be a lot of. going to be him. And then when Joe gets killed, it all falls on John.

Who kind of has a kind of a rough start getting started in politics. Yeah, he does. And he's, you know, he, well, I mean, you know, his dad basically bought out the mayor of Chicago, Boston or well, the congressional district. He basically paid the guy to quit. Right. So John could run for Congress. And there's an argument that he, that he bought Illinois for the presidency. Yeah, well, Illinois and maybe even Texas. Yeah. Illinois and Texas. Um, but that, you know, that was just lower level shenanigans at that time. Sure. Well, you've heard the quote, right?

You know, that was an awfully close night. You must have been sweating it out. Joe Kennedy supposedly told the reporter, I didn't pay for a landslide. That's fantastic. I didn't pay for a landslide. No, I don't know if that's verifiable, but supposedly he said that.

So did Forrestall tell John? So Forrestall, Kennedy got injured in World War II, the PT-109 incident, which was absolutely real. You know, they once asked him, how did you become a war hero, Mr. President? He goes, it was pretty easy. The Japanese cut my boat in half.

That's how I began a hero, right? But he did a heroic thing. He did. He was badly injured, injured his back, which haunted him for the rest of his life, went into recovery in Hope Springs, Arizona, where he was served by a nurse whose name was, I forget her name. It only matters if he slept with her. Well, what?

That was just a joke. No, but you probably already know this answer, right? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. Well, I forget her name. I want to say Victoria or something like that, but it's not. But there was a nurse there that worked there at the hospital,

and suddenly while John F. Kennedy is recovering, she up and leaves, and she moves from Hope Springs, Arizona to Hope Springs, Arkansas, where nine months later, she gives birth to Bill Clinton. Wow. Okay. I'm going to look into that. Now do you wonder why Ken Starr wanted the blue dress? so he could do a DNA test and find out,

is he an illegitimate Rockefeller or an illegitimate Kennedy? And everybody knows about Clinton and Bill Deburg and all that. Yeah, I forget. What was Bill Clinton's mom's name? She was a nurse, though. I forget her name. But anyway.

Okay. That story apparently connects. But he goes and he recovers. And then his dad, you know, he wanted a silver star. They offered him a bronze star. I believe he ended up with a broad star Kennedy but you know he deserved a star for what he did he absolutely did I think he saved at least one or two of his crew

like three guys yeah I mean I think he swam two miles to an island with a bit in his mouth right of a life preserver that's an that's amazing heroism so not to not to be you know because I don't want to pick on on Mr. Kennedy he did he did some things that I couldn't have done you mean JFK yeah I admire him greatly. Yeah. I didn't always, but I do now. The more I found out about him, the more I'm this exact same way. Yeah. So he does this thing and so he can't be in the military anymore because

his back is too bad. So he gets discharged. He gets his medals, you know, which is critical to Joe because that's going to help him become president, right? A war hero, you can be a president. And so he, what can he do then? He assigns him. He gets him a job. He calls him William Randolph Hearst, his buddy, He gets him a job for Hearst Newspapers. Who's he covering? Covering the Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestall. Right. Where do they end up?

They end up in Adolf Hitler's bunker in Berlin. Right after the war. I think there was a cabinet position back then. Yeah. Forrestall. So, yeah. There's pictures, of course, of Forrestall, Eisenhower, and Kennedy all together. You know, Kennedy's just a reporter.

And I've read his stories. He was a good writer. He was a good reporter. You know, it wasn't like he did. didn't do his job. And Siri, we're looking at this picture and there's two future presidents and the first Secretary of Defense in this one picture. And God knows who some of the other guys were. Right. I think one of them might have been Mountbatten or something. And at that time, they were about a six-hour drive from an area of Poland called Salacia. Okay. What's in

Salacia? Well, there's a big German rubber plant there. They made rubber seals for tanks and boats, supposedly. But that rubber seal factory in Salacia was using 25 to 40% of all the electrical energy output of Nazi Germany in the last year of the war. How? Because that's where the Nazi bell was. Diglaca? DiGlac. I thought it was never built. You think it was built? Oh, it was built. I'm positive it was built. Because that's what the test rig is for. That's what we, you know, see the test rate, and I believe that they absolutely built it in test. And there's some indication, Joe Farrell has a terrific book, Riker the Black Sun, where he goes through the documents that still exist that really imply, among other things, that they built this thing.

I have to read that. So did it work? Apparently it killed everything within like 100-foot radius. Like the crystalline entity in Star Trek the next generation, like all the or organic life. It was just disappeared, right? Because they didn't know how to shield it. But here's the thing. We get there, we get to that plant, we figure out something weird's going on here. We're looking for Hans Kamler. He's died three times already. Right now we're on the fourth death. They were only a day's drive away from that. And I think that's when, and I, so they're not going to tell you that. But I suspect strongly that they went to that facility and found a lot of things out about, that's where the alien thing comes into it. And there's, there's, there's a document called the Interplanetary Phenomenon Union, IPU report, Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit Report. And right in there, it says Congressman Kennedy in 1946 found out about,

it's implying Roswell or something like that, Congressman, you know, it's implying that it's Roswell from a source in Congress. And I'm like, I don't think that was his source. I think his source was James Forrestall, who would have been read in on all this stuff, which is why he subsequently gets picked for MJ12 as MJ3 in 1947. So, you know, when you go through all this stuff, it's like a lot of it is supposition,

but it also, there's sort of a linear structure there, right? So they go there, they find this, they realize there's aliens and don't forget, you know, Werner von Braun, right? His boss, his mentor was Hermann Oberth. Yes. By the way, I got a great Eric von Braun. Von Daniken's story. Eric von Daniken, rest in peace, has passed away yesterday. Wonderful man.

He decided yesterday? Or actually Saturday. That's a shame. Okay. But, you know, Eric used to like to drink three bottles of wine a night. And we're sitting there talking. And then he says, you know, I used to own a, run a hotel in Switzerland. I said, yeah. And I go, so is it true that you met Hermann Oberth one time? And he goes, oh yeah, yeah, he came to my hotel. And I said, did he say anything about? He goes, yes. I asked him about that, right? So this is 68 or something. So Von Danica knew. him and he asked him, is it true? Because Oberth said, how did the Germans get this advanced aerospace technology, these weird weapons and stuff? And he said, well, we had help. And he was asked,

well, who'd you have help from? And he said, the people of other worlds. Sorry, we're slipping into the secret space program here. But that's okay. And what he verified? What year would this be? This is like the over the conversation. The conversation, I believe Eric said it was 1968. Oh, I'm trying to connect it to Dulles and Switzerland. Right. Okay. Okay. But that's much earlier. It may end up working out because I may have the date wrong.

But Obers confirmed that story to him and said, yes, that's true. Now, that gets into the Vrille Society and Ananerbie and all that technology and Maria Orsick and all that stuff and the Aldebarons. And the Toulis. Yeah, the Tulli Society. the theosophy? Yes, Theosophy, yeah. All that stuff. Because they were, they were like,

they thought they were communicating with aliens and they might have been because it gave them some sort of ideas on all this exotic technology. Well, the virile, I believe, were aliens living in Antarctica, the hollow earth that were giving technology. That is allegedly the point, right?

So Kennedy, you know, is discovering this stuff. He finds out there's aliens. He becomes curious about it. He's friends with Forrestall. Forrestall is as read in on this stuff as probably any man could be at that. I mean, if the MJ12 committee is the top of the food chain, he's getting all the information. And he doesn't think it should be a secret. Oh, no.

He thinks people should be told. Oh, no. And he begins to voice this opinion at the MJ12, you know, pool parties. and he becomes a threat. Is MJ12 above CIA at this point? Oh, way above CIA. See, that's the thing. You know, when we talk about,

and we'll get to this, when we get to it, the Kennedy assassin. Oh, CIA killed Kennedy. No, they were the bag man. They were the muscle. Right. Who gave the order at CIA? Nobody can answer that question

because it wasn't CIA that gave the order. Well, I'm pretty sure I know who gave the order. Used to be CIA. So, I know you're, you're talking about. So yeah, I know you do. So Kennedy, you know, Kennedy's getting all this and he gets into Congress. I mean, his political career shot up really quickly. I mean, he gets elected to Congress in 46 by 1960s president. You know, that would be like Matt Gates being president today or something. You know, we'd nobody'd ever heard of him 15 years ago, right? So it's a, it's a meteoric rise.

And he's 42 years old or so? Forty-two, yeah, young man, 43, I think maybe. Anyway. So he, you know, he he's connected to Forrestall, he's getting the information, Forrestall is not a guy who thinks it should be kept secret because he's a man of principal. Kennedy is a man of principal. Maybe not in his personal life, but in his public life, his duty as an American, he's a man of principal. I'm not interested in any of these men's personal lives.

Yeah. I'm really not. Well, only in the context of how it affects, might affect their public decisions. Correct. Right. That's different. And then it becomes relevant.

Right. But anyway, so, you know, Forrestall starts to making too much noise. Well, what do they do then? They commit him. Somebody hires a Washington Post reporter, Jack Anderson, who broke the Pentagon papers, very famous investigative reporter, his boss, his mentor, I think at the post, basically just starts attacking Forrestall in public. He's mentally unstable.

He's talking crazy. He's drunk. drunk. He's probably on methamphetamines and all this stuff that they just made up about James Forrestall. And they run him, they just run him down and run him down and they institutionalize him.

And they probably, you know, they were probably trying to figure out how do we get rid of this guy in the sense of they probably would have cut a deal where if he would just shut up, you know, and drop out of public life. But he probably didn't want to do that. So they threw him out the window. Yep.

So it's super significant to me that after he becomes president, three months before he is killed, well, a few more on that, Memorial Day, 63, Kennedy goes to Arlington National Cemetery. Well, before we get to his death, you know, let's take a quick break. Yeah, sure.

And then I'd like to get into when Kennedy comes into office and how he starts to address all this stuff. Yeah. So we're back in one minute. So 1960, JFK, gets in. Any chance that MJ12 was interfering with that election trying not to get him in there? No, I don't think so. Okay. I mean, you know, there's no evidence of that anyway. There's no, you know, there's no documents. There's no even rumors. I was just concerned like they throw force.

Did they dislike him more than Nixon or, you know, look, when you look back on it, I think that, you know, Nixon would have been just the same for them. They would have, they would have tried to keep him out. And And obviously Nixon knew something about aliens. I mean, the Jackie Gleason story is, I think, absolutely true. I do, too. You want to tell that story real quick? It's a great one. Yeah, because, so the story is that, you know,

Jackie Gleason was the very famous comedian, entertainer in the 1950s and 60s, and even into the 70s in America. He was very famous, well-known and had a bunch of big presents on television. and he was friends with President Nixon. And they had been friends for a long, long time. And Nixon used to like to, he had the Western White House in San Clementi, but he would also go to vacations in Florida

at Jackie Gleason's place in Miami Beach, where he did his show, the Jackie Gleason show. And the story goes that Nixon wins re-election in 1972. And by the way, the biggest landslide in American history. True. The most popular president in American history. That's true. I should have never,

and should have destroyed the tapes. And exactly. But like, but just like JFK, the more I learn about Nixon, the less, I kind of, I like him.

Exactly. The more I, yeah, the more I like him, too, the more I realized what a great president he was.

And America would have been very well served with either one of those men as president in 1960. But Kennedy had the unfortunate, you know,

circumstance of being the guy that won. So, the story is, is that he's down on a golfing vacation after the election. and he is out playing golf with Jackie Gleason, and Gleason is into UFOs.

He's out a lifelong interest in it. And he asked Nixon, what about aliens? What about UFOs? What do you know about that? Dick, can you tell me anything, right? And apparently Nixon doesn't answer. This is all, by the way, according to Jackie Gleason's wife, who told his story after he passed away.

And then that night, about 9 o'clock, on the door. Door opens. It's President Nixon, all by himself. No secret service, no driver, just like the George W. Bush story we heard earlier, right? And the Eisenhower story, maybe. Come with me. They get in the car. Nixon drives into an Air Force base, probably Holoman nearby.

I'm thinking, drives into a base. To get in through the gate, shows his identification. They get into the gate. They go into a building. It's a warehouse. They go into this back room, all refrigerated. and on ice are what, four or five weird-looking Zeta reticulent alien guys. And according to his wife, Jackie Gleason was freaked out about it,

absolutely freaked out about having seen this. And he carried it with him for days and weeks and months. And I don't, is it a coincidence, do you think, that within a month or two of that incident alleged to have happened, I believe it was February of 73. Okay. I believe it, but it's right in that period after the election before the next term really starts,

at the CIA stage is Watergate, and all the people involved in Watergate are CIA. Bob Woodward was CIA. Yep. Pool, who was Deep Throat. Yep. Is CIA? CIA basically stages a coup to get rid of Richard Nixon.

Yep. So Kennedy's into aliens. They shoot him. Dead in Dallas. Because this is in the middle of mockingbird and all that as well. Yeah, probably can't do that again. How are we going to get rid of this guy? Right. E. Howard Hunt, yes. G. Gordon Liddy, all CIA connected. So I think that was the second coup, you know. There may have been other coups we don't know about him in past, but that story is fascinating. Yeah, I think you're right about that. And I mean, what, Jackie Leeson's wife is lying about it?

Because people have said, no, she, I think she even talked to a newspaper, didn't she? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a story that's out there. Yeah. So Kennedy comes in and is he read into the program? No. He's not.

I don't think so at all. No, I think that... Joe doesn't have enough pull with MJ. No, because here's the thing. As you look at it, Kennedy's first big speech is the president in the press in April of 16. one. You've heard this one, right? Okay, it's called the president of the press. It's very famous. And in it, Kennedy gets up and he's talking to the press, assembled press. All these people that he thinks are independent journalists. He believes them to be independent. And perhaps back then they were

to a certain extent, right? Now I know this speech. Go ahead. We as Americans, you know, against or secrets secret societies secret oaths and secret operations or something yes which are used or done to basically obscure in other words what he basically says and I don't have the exact quote but what he says is we're inherently opposed to this kind of secrecy because the threat that it we supposedly are fighting against is never bigger than the threat it places on our democracy So I think he gets in there. He gets stonewalled. And he then goes to the press and says, okay, I'm going to go over your head. I'm going to go to the press and see if they'll help me find out what I want to know about aliens. Because I'm pretty positive. He starts asking about him right

away. Because the rebuttal was, oh, he was talking about communism. That's nonsense. Secret societies? That was the rebuttal. Yeah, who were we talking about? The Freemasons, the, you know, those guys. Oh, yeah. Oh, I can't wait for that to go on the Internet. And, you know, he's talking about all, he's talking about that, that's what a secret society is. Everybody knows what a secret society was then. It's like the Freemasons, who, by the way, we're running the whole show at NASA at that time.

Another, another side thing. And we're going to do a whole show on secret societies in NASA. Yeah. And he's not talking about, he's not talking about the Defense Department. He's talking about secret, non-governmental or extrajudicial, extra constitutional organizations like MJ12. And at the time, he has a reasonably decent working relationship with Khrushchev, no? They haven't met yet, but they have communicated at this point.

I mean, probably one of the first things he did was talk to Khrushchev on the phone. But it's not quite there yet. That happens in May, I think, when they go to Vienna. So now we have documents. Ryan J. Wood or Ryan S. Wood, his dad was Dr. Bob Wood, who's the guy who hired Stan and Friedman into investigating UFOs. He was given a $2 million budget in the mid-60s to find out by, I think it was Hughes Aerospace. I may be wrong about that, but to find out about whether UFOs were real, he hires Stan Friedman. That's how Stan Friedman gets started. Brilliant,

man, just passed away about a year ago. Wonderful guy. And I just can't say enough about Dr. Bob, very serious. And they dig up this memo, the burn memo, which I think you probably know about it. I do. Right? And the woods say it's authentic. They actually apparently have the original, which I didn't even know, but apparently they examined the original.

I've heard that's out there. All on the right paper, the right ink, the right dating, the right style, everything. And in the burn memo, which I do believe was from like 1963, like September, October where 63. But in there, right there it says, if this guy, and they never name Kennedy, they never call him the president, they never call him Kennedy, but they say if Lancer, which was his Secret Service code name, asks you about our activities or our area of purview, lie to him. It's what it says. If he presses you, bring another member of the committee, and we'll both lie to him. That's what it says.

So assuming that that was the policy in 63, it was probably also the policy in 61. So of course we know about what happened with Kennedy and CIA. I don't want to get off. I don't want to forget the Khrushchev stuff. But they have pigs, complete disaster. Right. Kennedy fires Dulles.

And so everybody's like, well, that's why CIA wanted to kill him. Well, he fired Dulles from CIA. But he didn't fire him from MJ12. Because how can you fire that from an organization you don't even know exists. Right. Dulles, one of the biggest villains

in American history. Oh, I agree. I agree. So Dulles may have been fired from CIA, but he was still MJ1. And MJ1 was definitely in charge of CIA.

Because Dulles does show back up in the JFK story. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very interestingly. Yeah. So then, yeah, you know, Kennedy and Khrushchev

meet in Vienna, and Kennedy's trying to be conciliatory. Khrushchev is a, a tough, brutal man. I mean, you know, it's not, it's kind of like Putin. You know, there's, sometimes Putin says things that I'm like, you know, I kind of agree with that, right? Khrushchev had that, you know, he, World War II, he did some bad stuff for Stalin.

But he also didn't appreciate or like Stalin and didn't want to operate the way Stalin did. So he had, he wanted, he wanted to murder fewer millions. Fewer millions. Right. Only the really bad ones. Right. That's an upgrade, I guess. But Khrushchev came away, because Kennedy was conciliatory, came away thinking he was weak.

Thought he could push him around. So he puts offensive nuclear weapons in Cuba. Or somebody pushed him to do that, but he does it in 1962. So at this time, the space race has started. So the thing that Kennedy offered Khrushchev, which is documented, well, it's written about. I don't know that it's documented because we don't have the actual paperwork. But he offered him, instead of fighting each other in space, let's go to the moon together.

Let's go in unison. Let's cooperate. Krushchev's like, of course you're going to say that. We're ahead of you. We've put up Sputnik first. We got Yuri Gagarin in orbit. First, first base walk, first satellite in space. First female in space.

First dog in space. Right. Poor Leica. Poor Leica. I think first satellite around the moon. Yeah, probably. So why would you deal? Although somehow the Russians managed to miss the moon by like 37,000 miles.

They did. Which is a whole other hyperdimensional physics discussion for another time. Okay. But how do you miss the moon? I mean, AJ, you're in space. There's no atmosphere. You know what the gravity is everywhere. It's a bullet.

You know where the moon's going to be in three days when the bullet gets there. You pull the trigger. How do you miss it by 18 times the diameter of the moon? The lizard people probably knocked them off court. It's not the lizard. We're going to get to it. That's a side discussion. All right, so Cuban Missile Crisis and Crucissive realizes,

all right, I can't push this kid around. Right. He's tougher than I thought. Right. He's smarter than I thought. Yes. And the Kennedy's, you know, I remember my mom. My parents were Republicans.

My mom didn't like the Kennedys. She called Bobby Kennedy a wild-eyed liberal. That was what she used to call him. Wow. But, you know, when he died, when he died, she cried for three days. And so it's a different world then. everybody should have 68 was a hard year in this country

and so Kennedy offers it again but the Russians are still a little bit ahead and there's a whole again hyperdimensional physics story for how von Braun figured it out but we were behind because we didn't understand how the navigational physics really worked

we didn't understand our own electrical systems and what they were doing to our ships and all that stuff and you can hear Kennedy given speeches to Congress almost apologizing saying, look, we can't, we're not going to get there. We're going to be second. I think he specifically said, no matter how much money we throw at this, we're going to be second. I did not know that. Wow, thank you for that piece. I should take a note on that one. I don't know if it was a state of the union, but it was to Congress. Yeah. And they were not pleased. And, you know, so we have this situation where he again offers it and Khrushchev again

rejects it. So then von Braun makes his breakthrough. which is like, that's an hour right there. But he makes his breakthrough. We figure out how to use Earth orbit rendezvous and get to the moon and back. We also figure out multi-stage rockets and how to make them work. And so we jump ahead of them.

We leap ahead of them. I still don't, I still can't wrap my head around how that leap happens so quickly. Is that part of another story? Yeah, I can tell you. Compress it. Okay, I'll compress it as quick.

Because I can't get my, like suddenly we can do this. The first six, eight, ten times we tried to just, we just wanted to hit the moon with something. Nobody could hit it. The reason why was because when you have a rotating system in a spacecraft, it pulls energy in from the vacuum. You got, you know, the typical term phrase is zero point energy. Zero point energy is bullshit. It's pulling energy from higher dimensions. It's where it's really.

Zero point energy is bullshit. Well, it's not, it's not in a, it's not in a, physical medium in the three-dimensional universe. Okay, well, that's a different way of expressing it. It's pulling it from the ether, the hyperdimensional ether. Okay. Okay, so that's, but it's a subtle difference, but you can call it, I just don't like zero point energy. The term is not exactly correct.

It's hyperdimensional energy. So, so, okay. I'm less angry. I'm less angry at you now. Okay, okay. So how does Von Braun figure this out? Well, again, the first time we try to hit the moon, the Russians miss it by 37, 38,000 miles, 18 times the moon diameter.

How do you miss the moon by that much? Second time they try it, missed by 4,000. Nobody can hit the freaking moon, right? Except we're trying, the Russians are trying, we keep missing. Finally, on Ranger 4, we hit the moon.

We hit it dead on. How did we hit it? All the electrical systems failed after they shot it at the moon. All of the rotating gyros inside the spacecraft go dead. So it runs in a straight line. Okay, I hate to tell you this about Einstein,

but, you know, Albert, space is not curved. Okay, what happens is that when you have rotation, you pull energy from beyond the ether, right? And that affects the movement. I love how you just casually just through, it's not curved. Gravity, is gravity bullshit also? No, gravity is something.

I don't know. There's a relationship between gravity and mass. That's all we know. That's another show. going to do hyper-dimension, torsion, all that stuff. So space time, it's flat? I don't know if it's flat, but it's not curve. It's not curved.

So you just aim it and we hit it. Yeah, but you have to have the gyros for navigation. Sure. We didn't know that we were pulling energy in. That's what happened with Explorer 1. This is when Von Braun started getting really crazy about fuel propulsion and stuff, because Explorer 1, it ended up like 600 miles higher than it was supposed to. What was the jet stream?

The stream is horizontal. It's not vertical. Okay? So if anything, it would have pushed it, it would have drained energy from it, right? So von Braun then goes in and he starts, he goes after this guy, Jacques LA, who is an economist. Nobel Prize winning an economist,

that also likes to do physics experiments. He's the guy who in Paris in the 1950s, I'm trying to make this as quick as I can, starts doing experiments with paraconical pendulums, finds out that during an eclipse, they go backwards, against the rotation of the earth, with there's nothing in any physics that we claim to understand

that can account for that. I love it. I love his story. Awesome stuff. So von Braun's trying to figure this out. And that was the moment because when everything went dead on Ranger 4 and it hit the target, that's when he's like, okay, it's got to have to do with the electrical systems. What's in the electrical systems?

The gyros, what are they doing, spinning? So then he probably comes up with an empirical solution. I think we had a mission or two after that where we missed the moon again, but we got closer. And then we start hitting it. And then that makes Earth orbit rendezvous possible because now you know where the command module is going to be and where the lunar module is going to be to meet up in moon orbit and in Earth orbit.

So we suddenly start hitting it. So that was something about that Ranger 4 mission, I believe it was Ranger 4, where he figures out there's an empirical solution. We just got to figure out how to work it into the calculations. So then we suddenly leap ahead of them. And it was really interesting because I think it's in the choice. There's this whole discussion about how the only way to get there was direct assent.

Giant rocket, all the fuel, you know, you'll go, you land. The SpaceX thing, you come back and you land in the choppers. And that was the only way we're going to get there. But it was impossible at that time. Suddenly he changes. There's a meeting. Everybody expects him to say it has to be direct assent. This is 63, 64.

Von Braun comes out and says, Earth orbit rendezvous. in his German accent. I can't do a German accent. I can do David Hatcher Children's. Can I audition for Space Panda? Yeah, absolutely. And David Hatcher's Children's voice. He would be perfect for it.

There's giant balls everywhere, Mike. Sorry. All right. Got to stay focused. So Von Braun figures this out, and that gets us a way to get to the Moon and back, so we leap ahead of them.

And I have to assume the Soviets are watching this very closely. Yes. And they've probably, because they started being successful, after that themselves so maybe they make their own discovery along these lines or maybe one of our guys told them maybe our guys were been telling them stuff the whole time well because they're because we're probably working together at least the rocket people right and I'm sure that the politicians and the intelligence agencies weren't happy on either side sure and and and certainly a number of people who were working with von Braun and on v1 and B2 a number of those engineers went to the soviet side yeah so Yeah, they didn't have it as good as the ones in Alabama. Right.

But they did, they did, you know, do pretty well. So then you have this situation where we've jumped ahead of them. So Kennedy decides at the UN, and he says, I basically propose that we can cooperate in areas where we have not cooperated, foremost among them being space exploration, and that we should go to the moon together in unison, the Russians and the Americans. Finally, in a field where the United States and the Soviet Union

have a special capacity in the field of space, there is room for new cooperation for further joint efforts in the regulation and exploration of space. Now, that is not popular. No. With Congress, especially Congressman Albert Thomas. Congressman Albert Thomas is the congressman from Houston. Do you ever wonder why we launch our rockets out of Florida

and then Houston takes over? No. Because Albert Thomas was the president of the House Ways and Means Committee, which spends all the money coming out of the Congress. And he said, mission control is going to be in my district. They used to call him the congressman from NASA. And his story gets even, well, you probably know. It gets worse.

His story is pretty bad. I believe all of it. So then he, he, he, He's just attacking Kennedy. There's political cartoons, which were very, they were the memes of the day, right? Khrushchev and Kennedy together in a rocket, going to the moon.

He says, I told you this was going to happen if he kept talking about it. Funny, funny, funny. The whole thing gets shot down politically. At the same time, this is when the burn memo is composed. The burn memo says, among other things, Lancer, John F. Kennedy, is looking into our activities,

which is something we quote cannot allow. And then it says, I need your responses. I think within a week or so, something like that. So there's not a list of people who receive this memo, but most people believe, I know the Woods believed, that it's in the hand of Alan Dulles is probably in his capacity as MJ1 to the other 12 members of the committee

or whatever they call. It might have, you know, it's assume it was MJ1. day 12 at that time. And he's basically saying, I need your feedback on this. Now, what happens next is even scarier in a way. Because what happens next is Kennedy, on November 12th, 1963, 10 days before he's murdered, issues the National Security Action memo,

which tells the director of NASA, tells. Tells him, orders him to open an office to begin communications with the Russians about going to the moon together. You guys can look this up. This is N-SAM-271. And then there's, of course, En-SAM-272, I believe, which is more controversial because if N-SAM-271 comes from the Kennedy Library, 272 does not. But it is a parallel memo written apparently the same day at the same time.

instructing director of CIA to all this stuff, the bona fide cases of UFOs so that the Russians can tell the difference between our secret space programs and bona fide alien spacecraft. Let's call it alien spacecraft. Which strategically is not a bad idea. No, because we don't want to start World War III because they're mistaking hours for theirs, right? But here's the thing. The president's not going to do that unless he already has the Russians answer.

Oh, I didn't even consider that. This is literally an order to, as of today, open an office and start exchanging information with our mortal enemies, the Russians, who, by the way, just pointed nuclear weapons at us about a year ago. Is there any documentation that shows their side of it? I had never even considered that. Yes.

There is? Yes. You know, in who it comes from? Who? Sergei Khrushchev, his son. Oh, my goodness. Sergei Khrushchev, senior fellow at Brown University. I'm not sure if he's still alive.

I believe he might be, gave many interviews, several interviews. And he said, in late October, or early November of 1963, I visited my father at his Dasha, Dacha, whatever they call it, in Russia. And we went for a walk one evening. And he told me that Kennedy had pushed this on him twice before, and that this time he was going to accept it. He was going to accept the answer. he was going to accept going to the moon together because the Americans had jumped ahead of us. They were more industrial than us. They were more modern.

They were going to beat us. And so rather than be humiliated and lose the space race that we started out winning, it's like the Russians would have been like the Andretti's. You know, how many times were the Andretti's? You know, 10 laps ahead of the Indy 500 and the engine blows up. Oh, well, yeah.

Shouldn't have push it so hard, Mario. If that agreement went through, the rest of history changes so much. It had to. It had to because that time frame is probably a week to two weeks at the most before Kennedy issues his memo. So the one piece I don't have, which seals this whole thing, would be some sort of official communication from Khrushchev to Kennedy. You know, maybe there's a log somewhere where there, oh, there was a phone call between Khrushchev and Kennedy on November 7th. That would be enough for me. I would say, yeah, that was when they talked about it.

If it's a diplomatic cable, then we'll never see it. Right. If it's a document, it's been deleted or hidden. Maybe somebody still has a copy of it. But we don't need that because the logical chain of events is clear as day. Yep. So I don't need that. And Sergey Khrushchev was there.

He says, his dad agreed to this. So imagine this. You're MJ12. Theoretically, it's assumed it exists. You're MJ12. You got this guy in here you don't like who's called you out in public to the press, who's trying to get the press to investigate you, who's friends with this guy Forrestall

that you knocked off 15 years before or whatever. He, like Forrestall, is of a mind to tell the American people the truth about the alien presence. While bringing our greatest enemy into the fold. Yes. And let's go one step further, because what does this crazy guy believe? I believe, looking at thousands,

of pictures of the moon, that there's an ancient artificial, there's ancient artificial structures all over the moon, of an advanced civilization. So not only that, not only are you cooperating with these guys, you're going to go to the moon with them, and we're going to find ancient alien technology. And guess what? The agreement's going to be,

we're going to share that with these same Russians that just tried to blow us up. So we're going to get there. First, let's do the JFK assassination. And then we can get into moon landing hoax, what's up there. Sure. Sure. So now we're just a few weeks out of Dallas. Yeah. Right.

Yeah, 10 days. So they had 10 days to plan this up. Right. So what I always say is, you know, I can't tell you absolutely that this is the reason that they ordered his murder. But I can tell you, all I can tell you is 10 days after he issued this memo to go to the moon with the Russians over the objections of his political, party, Albert Thomas, all of his intelligence agencies, I'm sure, he was dead.

He wanted to pull troops out of Vietnam. They had plenty of reasons. Yep. Although I don't think that's a big enough reason to blow a president's head off in public. That's why I disagree with Oliver Stone. You know, we can talk about that. But the bottom line is they didn't like him.

They didn't like him. And again, you know, Richard Bellsor, remember him, the comedian? Sure. He wrote a book once called Nat. What was it called? I forget the name of the book. It's a conspiracy book. But his line was great,

and I've used this many times. It's not a question of who wanted to kill John F. Kennedy's question of who didn't want to kill him. Right. The Federal Reserve wanted to kill him. NASA wanted to kill him. You know, the Russians wanted to kill him. The Cubans wanted to kill him. Everybody wanted to kill a guy.

Who killed him? MJ12, on orders through CIA become the muscle. So who was the trigger man? You got 10 days to plan this. Right. What's the, you know, the Kennedy assassination is a mess. There are so many loose ends. There are so many holes.

There are so many things that don't add up. Doesn't that seem like an operation that was pulled together in like, I don't know, 10 days? Yes, it does. So I think the response on the memo, the burn memo was probably, okay, we got to get rid of this guy. Once he issues those NASMs, that was, he signed his own death warrant when he issued those. Was the burn memo the one that alluded to sort of a wet op? Oh, yeah, the wet, wet works operation. and all these, the false flags and all of that.

It's very extensive, but the part of it that's critical for my case is the part about JFK and, you know, him inquiring about their activities. So it's like the deep state owner's manual. It kind of is. It really is. So this has all the markings of thrown-together operation. We got to get this guy. How are we going to get this guy?

When are we going to get him? Well, he's going to come to Dallas. Who do we have in Dallas? Well, we got a couple of cops, and we got this guy Oswald. He's a pretty good shot. Not the best, but he's pretty good. CIA handles him pretty well.

Yeah, we got Jack Ruby, strip club operator. We got a few people there. Bagman and CIA as well. Sure. So that I think is why it's such a mess, the assassination itself. So the trigger men are, Lee Harvey Oswald in a 6-4 window, the Texas school book depository,

and Dallas police officer, J.D. Tippett on the grassy knoll behind the picket fence. So that's explosive because I assume everybody knows this, but Oswald killed Tippett later that day. I allegedly. Normally when I do this lecture, I save that part for like the more dramatic moment. Oh, did I step on your punchline? It's okay. I apologize.

That's true. That's true. Well, then take us through it. And then you have, okay, so that's what I'm guessing, right? And I'm not guessing. People try to say Oswald wasn't involved. Oswald wanted to be an assassin. He wanted to be a big man.

He was a violent man. There's recordings of him teaching not Marina, his wife, but some other girl, like English. And he's teaching your words like, kill and shoot and murder. I mean, you know, Oswald wanted to be a big shot. He wanted to be James Bond or something, right? And he wasn't. So he was a perfect guy to bring in on this. And, okay, so then, you know, you can't have just one shooter.

You got to have more than one. But these stories, oh, there were eight shooters and 16 shots fired. There's zero evidence of that. There's evidence of four shots, period. Tell me what those shots are. First shot. Yep. Either hits the lighting crossbar thing there

or just misses the limo entirely and skips over and hits the guy in the cheek. Okay. No, that one. Second shot, into Kennedy's back, tumbles, because it goes through soft tissue, tumbles through the air, goes sideways into Connolly, who's below and inside, Kennedy, which is correct. Yep.

Tears through his ribs, ends up in his wrist, flattened. Probably the stretcher bullet, but maybe not. So this is before him grabbing his neck? This is before that. Yeah, well, so no, it passes through. Okay. And then that's a nerve reaction, right?

That's this nerve reaction because I think it severed some of the nerves. It's just like he just seized up, right? And I think if you watch as a Pruder film, I believe his fist aid clenched the rest of time. So there are people who say that that wound alone probably would have killed him. Maybe not from bleeding, but from the nerves it severed. But I don't know if that's correct. Okay.

So that's shot two. So that's shot two. shot three for Oswald probably misses but it is overlapping exactly the force shot

from the grassy knoll which is the headshot which kills the president right then and there how do we know that because in 1978 the House Committee on Assassinations there was a thing called

a dictaphone and it was like a recording device the cops radios were open one of the motorcycle cops his thing was being recorded on dictaphone. They got that audio, and God knows what we could do with that today. If we could get the congressional committee to go back over that audio with the enhancement tools we have today.

And they said there's two shots on there, virtually simultaneously, probably by coincidence, but Oswald's third shot. And remember, there's the two guys below Oswald in the fifth floor. They hear bang, click, click, bang, click, click, bang, click, click. Oswald fires three shots. It's pretty clear that Oswald was in the window. note. But the fourth shot and the third shot are at the same time. Oswald, I don't know what happened to that bullet. It misses. Maybe that's the stretcher bullet. Maybe it hits the back of Kennedy's

chair. That's where the recent witness says he found the stretcher bullet, the Secret Service guy. Yeah. Now that's just come out after 60 years or whatever. But the headshot comes- That stretcher bullet was immaculate, wasn't it? No, it was, but it was very flat. As if it had, if it had struck Connolly sideways, that accounts for the flatness of it and the fact that it wasn't, you know, dented in the nose because it was tumbling.

And there have been experiments where they show that if you shoot a bullet through soft tissue or simulated soft tissue, it does. It comes out of the body and it starts to do this. Sure.

So then you have the headshot from the grassy knoll. And the, well, I'm trying to think like, what's the next thing we should go with? Okay. Well, we know there are cops on the grassy knoll. Yeah. And there are cops on the grassy knoll. There's the Orville Knicks film, which shows when the headshot hits, it shows all the cops hit the brakes on the motorcycles. One of them goes up there, pointing at the grassy knoll. The other two guys are looking at the grassy knoll. Three of them, they get up and they run up the grassy knoll. Yep. Okay. So what do they find up there? Well, if you found another cop, would you think anything? of it? Nope.

You wouldn't think the cop was the one who shot him, would you? So maybe you found a guy in a cop uniform up there. But what if he wasn't one of your buddies?

What if he wasn't somebody you knew? He'd have to be somebody you knew or there might be suspicion, right? So who could that be? Well, there is a document

that came out in 2017 in the first Trump document release about the Kennedy assassination. And in it, it is a report It was an FBI memo that states that one week before the assassination on Friday that two gentlemen were seen in Jack Ruby's strip club. Let's not call it a nightclub.

We know what it was. We do. It was a topless bar. Those two people are identified in that document as Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas police officer J.D. Tippett. The new document dump, which we just got this last year, there is a... record this is from the 1978 committee on assassinations where they used the early versions of the voice stress analyzer you know ben uh what's his name uh ben the euphong investigator my brain is um i don't remember ben hanson sorry ben hanson has his voice stress

analyzer i can tell if you're lying or not the early version of that they asked dallas police officers four of them i think it was four of them did oswald and tippet know each other no lie No, lie, no, lie. Those guys were never given lie detector tests, but they were given that. So that's in the documentation. So Tippett and Oswald knew each other. Why? Because they were both probably CIA assets.

So. Yeah, Tippett was U.S. Airborne. And a very good shooter, U.S. Airborne. And John Birch Society, maybe he didn't like some of Kennedy's racial policies or something, you know, and other races and all that stuff, it's possible. Tippett also tells his son, apparently, before he left that day, no matter what happens today, I love you, I want you to know that.

Apparently, that's a true story. But okay, so how do we know that the guy up there on the grassy knoll is J.D. Tippett? Well, there's a series called The Men Who Killed Kennedy from 1989, I believe, on Discovery or one of the, A&E series. Episode two. tells the story of a man named Gordon Arnold.

Gordon Arnold had just come out of basic training. His mama lived in Dallas, and he had three or four days before he had to go to Alaska for his first military assignment. He's sworn in. He's got his summer uniform on, including his little cap

with a little medallion in front of it, and he asked mama, you know, I'm going to go walk around the city a little bit, having no idea of Kennedy's in town. Can I borrow your movie camera? Sure. Here's the movie camera, Gordon. So he goes down, he ends up in Dealey Plaza.

And he's like, oh, it looks like there's a parade or something going on here. So he goes up to the railroad overpass. He claims, a guy walks out, flashes him some ID, and says, you're not going to be up here. He says, okay. So he gets out of the way, goes down over by the corner. Guy says, I told you you're not going to be up here. Walks away, goes down around the picket fence,

and stands on the grassy knoll waiting for the parade. He can start to see the cops coming. He says, I don't know. look up and you can watch this video. It's like, to me, it's so convincing. But I start filming, and he's like, oh my gosh, that's the president. I'm filming the president here in my army uniform. Bang.

Shot goes right past his left ear. So close, he said it was like hot. He could feel it hot. Yeah, he's described it. He crashes. He hits the ground. Sure. Because he's been trained to do that under live fire.

He turns around. There's a Dallas police officer in the uniform with a rifle, but he wasn't wearing a hat. Interesting point in the description. He's not wearing a hat. And the guy says, were you filming? Yeah. Give me your camera. I can't. It's my mom's camera. Give me the film. He gives him the film the guy leaves. It just how happens that there was a woman on the opposite side of the grassy knoll, taking pictures. And there was another woman taking film. Marie Muchmore and Mary Mormon were their names. Well, the Marie Muchmore film, and I don't know if you've ever broken it down frame by frame. Okay, we'll do it. Okay. Get the stabilized version, maybe. It's better. I did it, but I'm terrible at Photoshop. I can't, I can't, like, I can't extract any information

out of it. What do we see? One of the frames, Kennedy is hunched over like this, And of course, the argument is, did the shot come from the back or did it come from the front? You can see a spray of red blood coming out of the front of the president's head. His hair is pushed straight up in the front. The back of his head is perfectly intact.

You actually have a frame capture of a point where the bullet from the grassy knoll is partially in the president's brain and hasn't come out the back yet. Wow. And, I mean, I looked at it and I was looking around. Has anybody else noticed that that's like a red spray in this one frame? I've never seen that.

I think it was one-eighteenth of a second. So, you know, I don't know. I had to do the calculations. But it's there. And I'm convinced that it's there for real. So that means he got shot from the front. That means whoever was on the grassy knoll is the guy who shot him. And Mary Mormon is taking a picture standing a few feet away from Marie much more at the same time.

It's a Polaroid. And in 1989, the men who killed Kennedy, episode two, Gary White, And Gary Mac and John White, two researchers, Kennedy researchers, Gary Mack ended up running the six-floor depository museum for years. And I wanted to go talk to him. I never got down there. I think it was 2019 when I was down there. He'd passed away by then.

So you've been to Dealey? I've been there, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Anyway, so we'll get to that. And so they get the Mary Mormon photograph that get permission to work with it. and I think they made a negative, another negative from the Polaroid.

And he says, you know, you got to remember the spot we're looking at is about a quarter inch on this Polaroid, right? You guys have a Polaroid camera here. They're about this big, right? Polaroids are about like that. Yep. And there's this, there's the grassy knoll, and there's all the shade, and there's a bright spot. So they start enhancing it. Only they're not using Photoshop.

You know why? Because Photoshop doesn't exist in 1989. It's all analog. It's all print and reprint and enlarge and lighten up this section and running over a lightboard. And they keep working with this. And they get it. And what you see is, you see a guy like a railroad worker. Looks like he's got a hard hat on and a white t-shirt, which is common in those days.

You see another man standing there, which when they colorized it, I admit, they colorized it. but it looks like a camouflage uniform. It fits the army training uniform of the day with the overseas cap and the little medallion and this guy is holding something in front of his face and he's leaning like this. That's Gordon Arnold with his mom's film camera. Reacting to the shot.

And the guy in the middle, you see his elbows, you see his badge, you see his epaulet on his arm, which says Dallas Police Force, which matches the uniform of the day, Exactly. And you see the muzzle flash of the shot. And then you start looking at the guy himself at his face. And guess what, AJ?

He doesn't have a hat on. Now, keep in mind when Gordon Arnold said, there's a guy up there, cop, didn't have a hat on. Nobody had this, the stuff on the Polaroid was three, four years later. Gordon Arnold did not know that when he testified to this. So he didn't make it up. He didn't hear the story. And you can watch it.

I mean, it's amazing to like watch his segment because when they show him what they did with the Mary Mormon photograph, the guy freaks out. Like, I'm the only when I saw him. Anyway, so you start looking at this guy. They call him the badge man. And there's all kinds of nonsense.

Oh, if the badge man were really standing behind that fence, he'd have to be 47 feet tall and 2,000 feet back. And it's all just debunking BS. It's like Philip J. class level stuff. But then you start looking at the guy's face. and he's got this baldness pattern, you know, why I don't believe in Star Trek the next generation,

because you can't convince me it's a 24th century and I haven't heard male pattern baldness yet. Keep hoping. Wed shape. Yeah, really. Wed shape thing. Distinctive. Distinctive wedge shape.

Triangular shape. Kind of like a pompadour. Ears a little bit like this. Yes. Thick, bushy eyebrows. And then you look at a picture of JD Tippett, male pattern baldness, wed shape, ear stick out a little bit,

thick, heavy eyebrows. 100%. That's JD Tippett. That guy standing on the grassy knoll, the badge man is undeniably JD Tippett. So, sorry. Now, I was just going to ask if,

have you ever been contacted by any agencies, felt any danger? No, I'd love to. I'd love to talk to the Assassinations Committee and the UFO committee because I think I can provide the bridge to bring them together. I'd love to talk to these people.

That's not who I'm talking about. Oh. I mean, I mean, people above. No, because it's out there now. And I don't think they can do much about it. I've been talking about this for seven or eight, nine years now. And other people have picked up parts of it, so no. Why don't they care about what you and I do?

Because we're right on a lot. We get things wrong, but we get a lot of stuff right. Well, maybe you get things wrong. Well, my... I can't think of anything personally that I got wrong. But, you know, it's possible. Your books and my channel are aging like fine wine. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Why don't they care about us? Do you know who Jordan Maxwell was? The name rings a bell. Okay, Jordan Maxwell. I think you've used to maybe in the show once or twice. I used to call him the patron saint of conspiracy theory because he hated the Catholic Church so much. Wonderful man, L.A. guy,

has been exposing all this stuff, the Illuminati of Secret Societies for 30 or 40 years, had some really interesting experiences. I asked him the same thing one time, 2009, 2010, I said, Jordan, why do they let you talk about that? And he goes, you know, I had a guy, agency guy, I asked him that same question. Why do you let me tell people about this?

And he said, Jordan, we don't care if people hear you. We only care if people start listening to you. Yep. Which means you've got five million subscribers. People aren't listening to you? I just talk to a fish. I don't think they take me. Just talk to a fish, maybe that gets out of it.

Seriously. So it's JD Tip. it. So, it's a good case. So J.D. Tippett and Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald all meet in Ruby's club on Friday. It's all planned out how they're going to do it. After the assassination. Before you get there, tell me what you found in film in the limos behind. Okay, so there's a famous photo whose name escapes me. We can show it, but it's a famous photo of the motorcade. And the president has been shot for the first time. I think two shots have been fired at this point by Oswald, but it might be, you know, I'm not going to base anything on that. The president,

you can see to the president's limo through the clear glass in the front. He's reacting. Jackie has noticed something. She's reaching over. She's got her hand on his arm. What's going on, Jack? You can see her little pillbox hat sticking out the top. And two of the Secret Service agents are turned around looking over their shoulder back towards the six-floor window of the Texas school book depository so don't tell me shots didn't come out of there right people are reacting other people are not reacting there's a guy standing in the doorway of the Texas school book depository which everybody says is Lee Harvey Oswald Oliver Stone convinced Anna Paulina Luna that was Lee Harvey Oswald she went on she went on NBC and shouldn't have said that

Anna you should have called me first it's Billy Love Lady is his name tall thing guy looks a little bit like Oswald. Two Limo's back. Kennedy, Secret Service, Vice President Johnson, and Senator Ralph Yarborough. Senator Ralph Yarborough, Senator from Texas,

said, when I heard the shots, I saw a guy up on the hill. He said in front of a wall in one of his testimonies, I think, in that show. He also said, he was interviewed about it twice. He said,

I saw a guy up there, and he hit the deck as soon as the shot went off. He goes, I said to myself, well, there's a well-trained infantryman. You know, you hear shots, you hit the deck. So a U.S. senator also witnessed, obviously, Gordon Arnold, on the grassy knoll hitting the deck when the shot went off just past his ear. So we have that. But the interesting thing is he's sharing that limousine with Lady Bird Johnson in the middle and Lyndon Baines Johnson on the right.

except in this picture after they have turned on to Main Street there you don't see LBJ you see where's LBJ? Senator Yarborough you see Lady Bird and you see an empty seat

where's LBJ I'll tell you he knew LBJ did not plan this you know Roger Stone I'm sorry you're wrong LBJ did not plan this LBJ was not involved in the details but he knew when they rounded that corner that Shiz was going to

to start flying. He did. And that's how much, that's what a great guy LBJ was. He left his wife, left his wife. Yeah. Like I can kill two birds of one stone. So warning to Jen, if you're ever driving along and AJ ducks, Jen, duck. Okay, just duck. So, you know, and then there's so many other things. Did you know, for instance, that they've completely remodeled the White House, the Oval Office when he went to Dallas? I did know that, but go on. That they remodeled it and took out the beautiful blue-gray carpet that Eisenhower had left to President Kennedy and replaced it with a blood-red carpet and blood-red drapes. And Lady Bird Johnson oversaw that. But they were going to surprise the president when he got back. And then, of course, LBJ, you know, when he got back, oh, he decided

to keep John F. Kennedy's rocking chair. It's literally pure Masonic masonry. It's pure Masonic symbolism. I am bathing in the blood of the king that I killed while sitting on his throne. Sure. And so there's all that stuff involved in it. But I've been there, and I looked around. And this is not just my theory. It's pieced together from other people's theories and mine. And, well, first of all, the next thing that happens after the assassination is Oswald bugs out.

Tippett is observed waiting somewhere out of his patrol zone. And there's other stuff too With the railroad behind the railroad There's a bunch of cool stuff in there That I'm going to add to this whole milieu eventually But Tippett is agitated Tippett's calling nobody's answering He finally gets off and drives away

He drives around until he finds Lee Harvey Oswald He gets out, he confronts Oswald Oswald shoots him dead Yeah So do you think Oswald had orders to do that Yes Oswald Oswald Ruby and Tippett meet

in the club on Friday on a oswald and tippet kill the president oswald kills tippet ruby kills oswald jack ruby is a single point failure

and he never really talked although he made illusions to talking about it but he never did and he died of cancer a few years later yeah right so it's all a nicely neatly wrapped up package now i've been to there

i've been there and i obviously we had alien con in Dallas great event. And they were like, don't talk about the Kennedy assassination. So you know what I did? Yeah. Can you believe that? And so, and so I said, so they're like, you can't talk about Kennedy. So my presentation was, you know, the deep state and majestic 12 and the secret space program. So of course, I just gave him the Kennedy presentations. Of course. And right in Dallas. Literally, AJ, I'm like quarter mile, half a mile from where it all happened in this hotel. You have to. So I went over there. And, you know, they won't let you write in the sniper's nest,

you can be in the window right next to it. Yep. And, you know, I'm not a marksman, at least with a rifle. A good marksman, I guarantee you, I know several people who are, they could have made the shots from there. I went to the grassy knoll, stood right where the badge man was. It's a three foot tall fence. I am no marksman.

At less than 10 miles an hour, I could have made that shot. I might even gone for the head shot because it's just so easy. So easy. Jesus, it's... Part of the story that, that bothers a lot of people, including me, is that motorcade almost, they may have even stopped. That doesn't sound like protocol or even slowing down. I think, well, here's the thing. You have to understand there's, so there's these shots. People are starting to hear the shots

by the second one. The president reacts. He probably says something. John Connolly has been hit and claims he's like, oh my God, they're going to kill us all. So the driver's like, what? And your instinct, your instinct is probably to step on the brake or at least take your foot off the gas. Fair enough. So I think that's why it slows down. And this stuff about, well, the driver turns around and shoots him with his left hand or, I mean, you know what that is?

AJ, if you look at it, it's a reflection off of the hair on the top of the head of the guy and the passenger seat. Yes, I don't buy any of that. Remember the wet head is dead, right? People used to have, they, it was slick back, Brill cream, it shined, it reflected, right? That's what it is. I don't buy any of that. I always bought the grass, you know.

I think you might have been the first one to connect Tippett to it, which really blew my mind, and it makes total sense, because I did not know about that meeting. I didn't know about that meeting at Ruby's Club. Well, that's the thing. This had been in, I'd done presentations, and it was in dark mission in an incomplete form. But when I went through the documents and I saw that, I'm like, oh my God, I now have the link. That's it. That's the connection between Tippett and Oswald. You might have solved it. Is there any more on JFK you want to talk about before we get into the moon? Well, I think that there's this speech. that supposedly he was going to give.

And some people say he was going to give it at the trade martin Dallas, where the reason why it had to be Dallas, it had to be then, it had to be that Friday, was because he was going to give this speech. And I have no proof of that. It's just an internet thing. But it's this speech where he tells people, we're not alone.

These people might be our friends. They might not be. We believe that they are. We are going to go into an uncertain future, but know that we are strong and this is going, we're going to cure disease and poverty and all the ails, all the things that the deep state is making money off, we're going to get rid of.

And the only thing I'll say about that speech, and it's a couple paragraphs I've got it here somewhere. The only thing I'll say about it is that it sounds like Kennedy's voice. You know, you have a voice. You do. I have a voice that I speak with. It sounds like something Kennedy would say. I don't know if it's real or not,

but if it is, that was a turning point in history. It was a turning point in history that I hope we're on the brink of flipping back the other way. He never told Bobby anything? I don't know. I look for that.

You know, Junior would know that. And Junior's going to run the assassinations committee when it gets off the ground. So Jr might know that. I think Deep State is going to run him out. But, well, they haven't yet. But yeah.

Right. take a quick break and let's get back to talk about how weird the moon is all right kennedy's gone mj um stages a coup johnson's aware takes power is anything significant happen between 63 and and 69 around space and around space well yeah because apollo gets co-opted apollo was an exploration program. It becomes a program designed to, first of all, consecrate the moon as a Masonic Temple. That's the first thing they're going to do on Apollo 11. That mission is purely symbolic, and then they're going to start looking for ancient alien technology. Now, before you move on, prove to the audience that that was a symbolic mission.

Okay. They landed in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing of interest in a sea of tranquility. It's a flat plane. It's a safe spot to land. Now, in the early days of lunar orbiter and surveyor, they had done all these missions. Well, they were thinking they wanted to land in a place called Sinus Meta-E, which is the C in the Middle. That's Latin for the C in the Middle. So they sent probes and they photographed, just photograph the hell out of Sinus Meta-E, hundreds and hundreds of photographs, thousands of photographs. And, you know, my co-author, Richard Hoagland, went through a lot of those, and he's like, isn't this really interesting? There's one set. There's a frame.

AS 10, 32, 48, 22. So again, this is back in the 80s and 90s. And there were multiple archives where NASA photos were kept. Original negatives, first generation negatives, first generation prints. So he ordered one from St. Louis. Well, actually, this is an interesting. That's not even it. He had a catalog, North American catalog, of all the, photographs, all of them taken by the handheld photography, Hasselblads, by the astronauts.

And, okay, well, this is interesting. This is in the area I'm looking for. Oh, look, this one's 4822. It's pitch black in the catalog. So what does Hoagland do? He orders the blacked out photo. When he gets it, is it black? Is the lens cap on? No, it's a beautiful scene from orbit over the sea in the middle, sinus meta-e. right where they're looking at landing, where there, by the way, is a crater called Eukert, which is a triangle. Now, craters don't usually come out in triangles.

They have to kind of be, I don't know, shoveled up and bulldozed to look like a triangle, but dead center from the lunar disk from the Earth. If you were to look right at the lunar disk, you would see that triangle. Wow. If you could do it with a telescope. A triangle comes up in all these stories.

Dead in the middle. Well, it's connected to tetrahedron, which is the base building block of not only video games, Voxels and all that stuff, but pixels, but basic human, you know, physical matter. So he gets this and he's like, wow, this is really interesting. And look at all this stuff. Oh, this is a really crappy, crappy negative. Look at all that stuff.

Glistening and what is he? Scratches? Maybe not. So you know what he does? He orders from a different archive. And he gets what looks like almost exactly the same picture, only it's not. it's taken half second, two seconds, one second later. So then he and some other friends start ordering a copy of this photograph,

AS 10, 32, 4822 from all nine different existing archives at that time. Guess what they get? They get nine different pictures. Wow. So you know what it is? It's a camera with an astronaut looking out the optically perfect windows of the command module with a power winder on there who holds the button down

as the spacecraft moves left to right click, click, click, click, click, click. All nine photographs are put under the same frame number even though each one is an individual frame and should have its own number put into a catalog and blocked out. Yep.

So again, it's like, why didn't they just destroy them all? That is a great question. And I think it's because the religious aspect of it they have to provide the information. They don't have to admit to us. They don't have to admit when we catch them,

but they have to put the information out. They have to say, well, whoever God they're going to answer to, they have to say, well, we told yourself. Look, we gave you all these pictures. You didn't go looking for them. Why didn't you go looking for them? You really want to know the truth. Why are you putting it on us?

We published all these, right? That's, I think, what it is. It's a game. It's like stranger and a strange. You know, you have to be in the game to be in the game. Yep. So that's probably what's going on. So, Hougland still has these.

They make big enlargements. They're in his garage somewhere in New Mexico. Please God, if you ever pass, when he, you know, it's going to happen to all of us, right? I want to go to that garage. And I want to get all nine of those and I'm going to put them together in order and show, we were right about that one. And the other thing, too, is that in this, there are objects that, you know, are not there.

And then the next frame, it's partially there. And the next frame, it's partially there. And the next frame, it's fading away again. And it's obviously from the light hitting this glass or crystal structure. And there's even one where there's this thing is called the castle, is what the nickname is. And you can see that there's a wire. It's hanging from this lattice work that's all over sinus medea, all over the middle.

I read that those castles seem to be levitating. Well, no, it's floating, it's in the sky above that region of the moon, but it's suspended on wires and things. And so people say levitating. It's kind of a fanciful description of it, but it's really not. It's just that the light catches this stuff, and the phase angle puts the light into the camera lens, and it records it. And, you know, again, when you add these up, you can see that there's, that accounts for the movement of the spacecraft.

So there were stuff all over there. And, you know, again, before we get into this argument, oh, you don't, you don't build houses out of glass where people throw stones. Well, you know, lunar glass is almost as strong as steel for one reason. There's no moisture in it. Right.

When you throw a baseball against a window, the reason the glass shatters is because of the water that's in there. Lunar glass doesn't have that. In fact, NASA's plans when they build a moon bay, they're going to use lunar glass because it's tough. So what it looks like is somebody built this latticework structure, and there's all kinds of doubles of detail to this, in certain parts of the moon as a meteor shield

because there's no atmosphere on the moon to protect whatever was below. So, okay, sounds like a little bit of a crazy idea. I'll acknowledge that, except that what happened to Surveyor 4? Surveyor 4 was descending into sinus meta-e. They were going to land. Now, Surveyor 4, the surveyors were the ones that landed and took pictures.

And it's descending. It's going along. It's going along. It's going along. It just disappears. It just disappears. In mid-air, all descending. And he said, and as Hogan loves to point this out.

He's like, hey, guess what? The transmission of the radio is at the speed of light. So if there was an explosion, that's going to, register in the telemetry nothing it's just there one split second and it's gone the next he goes so what happened to it he goes i think it went splat like a bug like a bug on a windshield so then they can't land it sinus medea anymore right so they have to find somewhere else to land so the place that they pick is to see your tranquility now what's the purpose of apollo lemon well how is it symbolic well you know again the freemasons were running nassassa james

web was a scottish right freemason 33rd degree and that's what we're only talking about. We're not talking about, you know, my dad's a Shriner. We're not talking about that. Right. We're talking about 33rd degree of the Scottish right, southern jurisdiction, United States of America. Buzz Aldrin is a member of that lodge. Lots of other NASA astronauts are. And it makes sense, like Edgar Mitchell, it makes sense to me because it's a great way to figure out if you can keep a secret. Join a secret society. That's a great point. And the astronauts probably all figured out, well, if we're going to get the choice assignments, and they all wanted to be Neil Armstrong,

we better join the club. Now, Armstrong was not, but I believe his father was. Didn't Buzz bring some Masonic paraphernalia with him? Oh, you mean... You mean like this Masonic ceremonial apron that he brought with him and his personal preference pack to the middle?

Why do you need the... When it... They had to keep the weight so small, but there's room for... Well, there's room for... for a massana. There's an apron. But that is the actual apron that Buzz took.

We've just replaced the American flag with that. So, yeah, I'll put that over there. Well, so that's doctored. So the actual photo is the... No, that did not... It was actually really the American flag, and that's not Buzz Aldrin. That's like...

Jimmer went on Apollo. Just want to clear that up. But it's a great cover. It's a great cover, right? So, Aldrin is a 32nd-degree Scottish-Rite Freemason at that time. He's not been brought into the top level of the club. And he goes to the moon with the alarm strong, and they land in the middle of nowhere. And we haven't sorted out the exact time yet.

What we started doing was, and this is getting too deep into the symbolism, is what were the stars like above the landing sites? And again, there's a whole bunch of documentation about what are the belief systems of the Freemasons. You had the Freemasons inside NASA. you also have the Nazi faction inside NASA, and you had what we called the magicians, the Alistair Crowley folks out at JPL, all based on the same core belief system,

which is that the human race is descended from Aryan gods who came from another star, maybe Orion, and that they are the fathers of the human race, okay? And we worship them. Their names are Isis Osiris, Horace, and Seth. Which, by the way, Dune. Dune is the myth of Isis Osiris. That's right.

Osiris, the good god, Duke Lido, Seth, Baron Harkonan, his mom, Horace is the son, the avenging son, his mom is the witch, ISIS. And we can connect Osiris to, I guess, a more commonly known constellation above Egypt, yes? Orion. Orion. Sirius is ISIS. Orion is Osiris. Yep. So, anyway, by the way, the lunar module Orion.

in other words, the lunar module Orion, which is the lunar module Osiris, right? Right. And of course, Orion was originally on the Apollo original patch. Apollo's Greek, Orion's Egyptian. Okay, whatever, guys. If you look at all these logos with these space agencies, they're all Egyptian, iconography.

Anyway, and they landed, you know, in 1972, the lunar module Orion, lands on the moon at the exact time. that the belt stars of Orion are 33 degrees above the horizon on Adolf Hitler's birthday. Okay. So everybody got their, everybody got their wish list. They got their wish list filled out on that one. So they land. Okay.

Wait, hold on. Who's they? Armstrong and Aldrin. So we landed on the moon. You're in that camp. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely.

The thing is, it's like I told you about when I started a Boeing, you know. I mean, these were guys, this is 79. So this is 10 years after the Apollo 11 months. mission and only seven or eight years. And, you know, people are like, well, we didn't have any computer power. How did we get to the moon? You ever heard of a slide rule? I mean, these guys, AJ, these guys were geniuses. These were the guys that my dad work with. I mean, engineering-wise, compared to me, they were freaking geniuses. Then why do they say they can't replicate that technology now? They can. They can. That's not what happened. What, what, here's the problem. They don't

have the, they don't have a lot of the paperwork anymore. Come on. No, no. They, companies do keep to stuff, but what they really mean by that is that they destroyed all the tooling. You can't build the shell cone for a Saturn 5 engine if you don't have the tooling for it. You have to reverse engineer it, and you know, you don't know exactly what the materials were. You have to pull everything out. You have to test every piece. You know how many millions of pieces there were on that rocket? Every single one would have to be material tested, which is also destructive, by the way, to rebuild the Saturn 5. So, you know, it's kind of a...

So SpaceX figured it out? SpaceX just did a completely different thing. Okay. And I don't agree with the way they did it, but they're smarter than me, so, you know, I mean, I don't think 33 engines is the way to go. 33 small engines, I'd rather have five big ones that are reliable

than 33 small ones, right? I'm just glad they're going. And so they land in 69. At this point does... Okay, so they land a 6. Yes. 32nd degree Freemason, Buzz Aldrin on board. All of the pictures of astronauts on the moon are in Pado 11, except for one, and he only

see his legs, they're all Buzz Aldrin. None of them are Neil Armstrong. So when people think they're looking at Neil Armstrong in that National Geographic picture, it's Buzz Aldrin. So you know why Armstrong went out first? What? Because his job was to take photographs of the first Freemason to walk on the surface of the moon.

That's what his job was. That's why he never wanted the limelight. Buzz did. Buzz was the rock star, not Neil Armstrong. Just, that's my opinion. Buzz Aldrin performs a ceremony in the lunar module, which is described as a communion ceremony, because, of course, that's an acceptable religion.

In fact, that communion ceremony goes back to, guess when? Ancient Egypt. Sure. It's an offering to, guess who? Osiris. And it's, hell of it. I hope's explain a little bit why Neil Armstrong looked so uncomfortable at that press conference. I mean, he looked miserable to be there.

He hated, he hated being in the public anyway. I mean, he hated talking. He hated the press. He was a quiet, stoic, masculine 1960s guy. That's who he was. And there's also other pictures of them laughing, you know, their ass off. I've got a meme where, you know, they're all like this. And then I got a meme where they're all laughing, you know, at that same press conference.

So watch the whole thing and you get a little bit different picture than if you just watch edited segments. So I don't want to step on any punchlines, but what's up there? What do they find? Why do we not go back? Okay, so on Apollo 11, they didn't find anything. It was purely there to consecrate the moon as a Masonic temple. But did NASA or Magic know something was there? Yes, but they waited until Apollo 12 to start looking for it. The reason they landed there, they landed in Oceanus Prasalarum because that was a promising landing site for artifacts. So it became a reverse engineering technology. What I think happened was Kennedy got blocked out by MJ12. And he said, okay, fine, F you, I'm going to go to the moon anyway with my own public space program

because he knew they were hiding advanced technology from him, I'm sure. I'm going to go to the moon, and we're going to go there. And we're going to go, we're going to go there and take the technology and come back and reverse engineer it on our end on the public side. And we're going to do it with the Russians. And all you bankers and cabalists and whatever you are are going to, I'm just going to screw you. No can do. So they allowed that then to continue.

And so Apollo 12, they actually started looking for stuff. And they landed, it's really interesting because why would you land someplace you already landed on Oceanus Pras Alarm? Because Surveyor 3 had landed there 33 months before. and they knew they could get through all of this crap that was in the sky. So they knew they could land there. And they went there, they went, they start. And Alan Bean, right, is the commander, P. Conrad, was being the commander? Conrad was commander.

They land there. The camera that they took to on Apollo 11 is this crappy, terrible black and white camera, which even with today's, we finally got it looking reasonably decent, right? and you know the whole story on that. Apollo 12, they let them take a color camera. They land in Apollo 12 on Apollo 12, and there's this 18-minute period of silence. Remember, what was it, the 18-minute gap in the Nixon tapes?

Yep. We talked about Nixon before. It's an 18-minute gap. What are they doing there? I thought the module went behind the moon, so the signal was blocked. They're all on the front side of the moon. They're beaming right at us.

They get there, they set up the antenna, they're beaming right at us. What do they do on Apollo, 12 for 18 minutes. Well, it turns out there's a NASA document that popped up in 2006 or 2007, and there's a line at the beginning, they did a stand-up EVA. A stand-up EVA. Yeah.

A stand-up EVA is where they depressurized the cabin, open up the top hatch, and stand on the ascent stage engine cowling, and look around. So they had a much better high-resolution. color TV camera and better handheld cameras. So what they were doing, and nobody, nobody knew this until it was in this report in 2006, which they've now since edited and taken out, that thing. But this woman wrote the report, puts it in there, like, it's a fact.

She got it from NASA, it's an official NASA document, right? So for those 18 minutes, they were looking around. And they were like, what do you see? in the distance. Well, I'll tell you what you see. And we've, we've got Apollo 12 and Apollo 14. We're only 100 miles apart. And you can see the same gigantic, towering glass structures over the horizon from both website, both the landing sites, but in opposite perspectives, right? So you, from various different media sources. So they were clearly standing up to look around and say, see what you can see. They had private communications channels that were not public.

We know that now, right? And, um, they obviously went and they looked around and they said, holy shit, you can see everything with this camera. So they closed back up. When they came back on after 18 minutes, there's two different Capcoms.

There's a landing Capcom. And then when they go out for the EVA, the walk, there's a different Capcom. When they came back after 18 minutes, guess who was on the line? The Moonwalk Capcom. So they had changed, that means there was an EVA.

Right. You don't bring that guy on it. So there's all these little details, right? Where's that footage? Right, it's with... Well, let me tell you what the footage is. So Alan Bean, who's been training for this mission for months and months and knows everything about it.

Pete Conrad goes out, third man on the moon, yay, everybody's applauding. Camera comes on, it's still stuck to the side of the lunar module, right? So Al Bean gets out there, and he goes, and his job is to take the camera off of the mount and put it on the tripod. So we can watch,

just like we did on Apollo 11. What's the first thing he does? Turns around, points it right at the sun, and burns the optics out. Oh, come on. Which he's trained specifically not to do. Sure.

Then there's all this stuff about Alan Bean's paintings where he paints the moon and there's all this color everywhere and completely different than what we've been sold. So they were like, when we can't do that. So they had other cameras, they had other issues,

they landed in other places. Apollo 14, after Apollo 13 disaster, Apollo 14, again, looking for technology. But you don't, I can't really say, when I look at pictures, there's anything super suspicious until we get to Apollo 17, which is the last mission that we actually went. We had an Apollo 18. I got to touch the lunar module they built for that.

Wow. When we did Truth Behind the Moon Landing, when I did that show, it's like, wow. Amazing. It's still here. And it's so much more solid than you think. I mean, you hear that, oh, look at that piece of crap, couldn't have gone to moon? Oh, yeah, it could. What did they think this stuff was and how long was it there and who put it there? I don't know. I don't know. Timeframes are the hardest thing, but the only thing I can tell you is that like

the Hopis have said we've been this high before and we've crashed by fire, by water, by, you know, radiation, whatever it is. I don't, I don't know what the time frame is on this stuff. I just, I just don't. But man rises up and then he crashes and he rises up and then he crashes and he rises up again. And if you look at this stuff, if you look at the technology, you look at the face on Mars, you look at the DNM pyramid right next to it, you look at all the stuff that the rovers find. It all looks like human engineering. The lattice work structure, it looks like it's on a massive scale, but it looks like either they follow the exact same principles as we do, including aesthetically, or it's human. Or engineering, is just universal.

Or engineering is engineering. Right. Yeah. So then we get to Apollo 17, and that one is really weird. Why is that weird? Because they land. You know how Hoagland talks about the message of Sidonia on Mars, right? And the tetrahedral geometry and 19.5 degrees and 33 degrees.

By the way, do you know after Viking, the first time we went back to Mars was Pathfinder? your lander. Okay. You know what the latitude was at the landing site? 19.5 degrees by 33 degrees. Because they knew

if they landed there they'd find pyramids and sphinxes and all kinds of cool stuff. Right. I think the, isn't the pyramid the lower angles

19.47? It's 19.47, rounded up or down to 19.5 basically. I tend to move away from that kind of

symbology. I tend to. I'm interested in it, but I tend to move away from it because you can discern a lot of things. You can just make it work. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you can, although I mean, I think there's enough coincidences that you can say they're not coincidences.

Totally agree. Even Graham Hancock in his book The Mars Mystery, which is excellent, by the way, and may have some things, like his perspective on certain things may be right rather than me in Hoaglands. His books are aging very well. Even he says, look, he goes, I have to admit, The fact that they landed at 19.5 degrees by 33 degrees

kind of makes Holden look like he's on to something. So the Apollo 17 site is 19.5 degrees. There's mountains around the landing site. They landed in a valley between a bunch of mountains, some of which appear to have condos built into them. I'm not cheating you. Hogi says, I watch NASA Select TV at 2.30 in the morning because that's when they show the good stuff, right?

And high-resolution stuff. And one of the mountains is called the South Massif, which is French for mountain, and it's a hexagon. And the backside of it is blown out, and you can see the debris where it blew out, like there was an internal explosion that blew this hexagonal mountain up, right? In there, there's a depression that they call a crater,

which is a V-shaped depression called Nansen. Day two, the EVA, they get on the rover and they make a B-line for Nansen, right? They make an absolute B-line for it. And you can watch a lot of footage. Oh, yeah, you can watch it all. all day. The Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

It's little, you know, posted stamp 2006 video, but you can watch all of the spacewalks every single minute of them, and you can even see the comments from the astronauts from their debriefs along with that, and it's just fascinating. So they get up there, and they get out of the rover, and they're right, they park right above this depression, which looks for all the world like an entrance into the, underneath this pyramid thing, right? And so they take over the camera remotely, which, yes, they can do that.

They can, they absolutely. They could follow it up. Yes, they just programmed in, pan up, and it's going to follow it. They start panning. So this goes on for like 20 minutes. I've watched the whole video. It's excruciating because I know they're doing something. I just can't see what they're doing.

And at the end of it, Sernan, Gene Sernan goes, well, you know, we haven't really been able to look around anymore than you. you've seen. And I'm like, what are you talking about? We didn't see anything. All we saw was the middle of nowhere. You can hear him saying that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He says that. And he says, and then as they're getting ready to leave, they're driving around. He says, yeah, we're driving around here. And of course, the camera's off by them because it couldn't, it couldn't attach the antenna. They had to stop the rover to hook up with Earth and do the TV transmission. He goes, you hear him go, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, this is one weird place or one amazing place or something. And it's

like, dude, you're talking about a bunch of dust? Really? So there's all this weird dialogue. Sernan was one of the guys who talked a lot about weird stuff. You know, he was the music guy on Apollo 10. That's right, the woo-woo. Right. And then he says, wow, we're really down among them now on Apollo 10.

Yes. He was literally at 50,000 feet when he said that. What is in the sky above the moon at 50,000 feet if the NASA thing is correct? So nothing. Didn't Mitchell also make some weird statements? Mitchell made many weird statements. And again, 33rd degree Scottish right free mason, born in Roswell, New Mexico. Oh, boy.

So let's speculate. Is the moon hollow? Is it a craft? I believe it's a modified natural satellite. Okay. If you go back to the Dr. Tom Van Flantern theories about planets actually being spun off as plasma. And then the planets spinning off their moons. Earth and moon fit that description.

Venus and Mercury fit that description. Spinning out of the sun. Yeah, spinning out of the sun initially. And then the rocky planet will spin off a smaller ball, which becomes the moon, or Venus and Mercury were once a pair just like the Earth were, but Earth and Moon are, but something happened. And let me just say, when you started telling me about these theories, I thought it was nuts.

Yeah. And the more I researched it, I've come all the way around. maybe not to them Flandered so much. Right. But about the planets and the sun and all the sort of being connected in ways that we don't know. I'm kind of there.

Yeah, and connected through the hyperdimensional ether and it gets into all this physics and it's really interesting stuff. Yeah, we may have to have you back tomorrow to get into it. No. So, yeah, they went there looking for this ancient alien technology

and they brought it back. Apollo 17 is definitely the mission where I can say, absolutely, look, this is where they're looking for technology. And then after the South Massif, they go to a crater called Shorty Crater, where they find Commander Data's head in the crater. I've seen that picture.

It's not bullshit. Okay. You know, that's, again, a thing I've got to take you through that step by step, but it's really there. And I don't know what it is. To support that a little bit, there are ancient stories going back, ancient Athens talking about the Arcadians

that were here before the, before the moon was. That's a great band. Nick Rhodes, Simon LeBahn, a terrific band. Oh, different Arcadians, I'm sorry. Africa, another great band. But African stories,

Mesoamerican stories, about the mist, the earth was a mist, and then the moon arrives, and then there's the flood. Yeah. I don't know if that's true. The thing that's interesting

is that they talk about, like the Egyptian myths talk about when ISIS Osiris and Horace and Setset arrived. They're represented by five extra calendar days at the end of the year. Like the year should end on Christmas. But there's these extended days,

and it has something to do with the moon coming in. You know, these... Let me clarify that for a quick second. So 360 degrees in a circle based on Sumerian math, the 365 does not fit hexadecimal math. So what? The orbit of the Earth was once 360 days, not 365.24.

and something happened to change that. And, you know, again, I'm a big cataclysm guy. I'm a big catastrophist guy. I think we talked about that in the Sixth Extinction episode. And so something happened. And I suspect that the moon was already there based on the Van Flander stuff, which I tend to think is probably right.

But what happened was is that they then probably started adding to it, maybe to increase the mass, to slow the spin of the earth because the whole thing is connected again where you got a solar system and the idea is it's a true system. So all of these planets through the spin energy

are generating energy. They're generating light that affects everything in the system from here to Pluto. You look at the earth and you see, well, life used to be gigantic. I love it when they say, oh, Godzilla couldn't really,

you know, couldn't be real. he'd collapse of his own weight. How do you explain a T-Rex then? How do you explain some of these other animals? And the answer is there was more life force in the solar system because there were more planets in the solar system generating spin energy. Sure. So when you lose those, when they explode or are blown up in a war,

did I say that out loud, then you can't support that level of life anymore. Is that the John Vanderberg, a little bit there? A little bit. Okay, the nuclear apocalypse on Mars? I think that, well, I think he thinks there was a war on Mars, but I'm trying to convince him Mars was a moon. It's not a planet.

It's a moon of this planet that may have been blown out. Of this planet? No, Mars is a moon of that planet that used to be in the orbit where Mars, basically where Mars is now, which also explains 3i Atlas and what that really was. I got to write that down. So Mars may be a moon of whatever planet later became the asteroid belt. Let's call it Maldek or Fayaton or Planet Van Flander called it Planet V, Planet 5.

So we've got the asteroid belt that's there. Yeah, which was another planet that also blew up or was exploded. And could have Mars been a moon of Maldak, that planet? Possibly, but I don't know why it would have to... Again, if you use the boat Titus Bowd-Law spacing, right, which you talked about in the episode, there should be a planet there. Yes. And remember, the thing that our solar system seems to lack that most other solar systems do have

are what they call these super-Earths, which are rocky terrestrial planets like the Earth, but about twice as big and five times as massive. But we don't have those. But if you put one in Van Flandern's model, where they would logically reside is where we've mostly seen them, which would be in the orbit where Mars is and the orbit where the asteroid belt is. That's true. So it fits. The thing is that these theories might not be correct that we've talked about.

But everything we observe says that nothing discounts them, right? Look, a lot of what we talked about today is not correct, but some of it is. Some of it is. All right. I want to get back to the moon a little bit, but you brought up 3A Atlas. That's hot. What does that have to do with anything? Okay.

So 3i Atlas is really interesting from a compositional standpoint, right? It's iron. What was the other main thing in it? Nickel. A lot of this stuff. planetary core material. So the theory that the theory that Hoglein has, Houglin and I, I mean, he helped me, I helped write that paper

with him 25 years ago. Yeah, Mars is a moon. You could tell because it has these massive tidal bulges. I had a guy, I had marked Antonio, who I love, by the way. Mars doesn't have any tidal bulges. I'm like, Tharsus and Arabia are the two biggest tidal bulges on anybody in the solar system. Now, you could see them. Yeah, you can see them. So it was locked in a title-locked relationship, just like the moon is to the earth, always the same face facing us, right?

It explodes. Half the atmosphere is ripped away on Mars. The planet tips over, like a tug of war, tips over. The bottom half gets spattered with so much material from that exploded planet that it creates a 20-mile dichotomy in crust, crustal dichotomy. And that's something that a lot of people don't know is Mars is almost like two planets and one. It's two in one.

Yeah, it's two and one. And, you know, so this all happens. And so the explosion, what was it, what were we going with that? 3i. 3i Atlas. So 3i Atlas is an object that's never been observed before. It's come from outside from another galaxy, Captain. People ask me what it is.

I say, it's a meteor, but it's the weirdest one I've ever read about. Yeah. But there's something else that Dr. Van Flander talked about called Long Period Comets. Long period comets are comets that have never come through the solar system before, but they are gravitationally tethered to it. So if this planet exploded whenever it happened, 200,000 years ago, 2 billion years ago, 2 million years ago, it goes on this incredible course,

and it comes back into the solar system, where's it going to come back? It's going to come back where it originated from. which is on the plane of the ecliptic. Remember Avey Loeb? Oh, the fact that it's on the plane of the ecliptic is what? One in 20,000?

No. It's like all the time. Okay. Well, Omore. 500 to 1. I forget which one of them it was. I thought Omore Moore was weird because it was so oblique,

but the three I came in fairly flat. Yeah, but the odds of that are 500 to 1 or something, according to Lope. And it's right, crossing. It came really close to Mars, right? Yes. So close you could have. preserve it with binoculars if you were standing on it.

So is that Martian core material? That's core material of the planet that Mars used to orbit that exploded. That's what I think. That's why it's nickel and that's why its composition is so weird. Do you have any theories on why the tail is so long? Why face is the right way? I'll leave that to other people. I'm not a comet guy.

I just wish Tom had lived long enough. Right. Because that's not really Tom's theory as much as it is Richards, but between the two of them, they would be superstars right now. Yeah. If Tom was still with us. All we have is Avi Loeb.

And all we got is Avi. The moon. All right. We got off track there. No, no, that's a good track. But there's no order to this. So we've got the moon is weird. Stuff is up there.

There's all these things about the moon. And really, you know, these things are common now that we talk about. Anybody who does a video about the moon has this in there about the solar. Oh, the moon is exactly the right size to cover perfect, you know, eclipses, perfect solar eclipses, exactly the right distance. By the way, the diameter of the moon is 2,160 miles. It's not 2,159, and it's not 2161. It's 2,160, which is the exact number of years in an astronomical,

astrological age, which is kind of an interesting coincidence. And it's exactly the right size. And apparently it makes paraconical pendulums go backwards when it eclipses the sun. And Hoagland was really the first guy to talk about designer solar systems. So it's as if some intelligence has put all this together. We don't see a moon like this in any other solar system behind. Although, again, Van Flanin would have argued and did argue that Mercury and Venus were the same

situation as Earth. And Mercury just got pulled out, which is interesting because Mercury, you know, as close as it is in the sun, should have a very perfect orbit. but it's the most eccentric. Right. Meaning it makes it imply that it's a fresh orbit. It's not been there for a long time in that position. So the secret space program.

Yeah, yeah. So we've got the, does this go back to Magic? Does this go back to MJ? Do we have a secret space program now? This goes, yeah, we have a secret space program now. We've had it for a long time. This goes back to Del Shau, a German drafts, basically, artist almost, who immigrated in the 1800s, 1830, I think, to America and came out

of Salacia, Poland, the same place where the Nazi bell apparently was developed. Maybe that's why they invaded in 39. That had to be it. That had to be. Hey, don't put it past that Hitler guy. He was into his occult stuff. And I don't know what that is. It seems like there was a secret society of German scientists,

and they were looking for the secret of any gravity, way back in the 1830s. That far back. And they send other people, but they send this Del Shau guy to America. It comes into New York, through Ellis Island, makes his way to Texas, ends up in Sonora, California, where he's part of an organization or founds an organization called the Sonora. Air Club. And he produces all of these extraordinary flying machine drawings, designs for flying machines,

balloons. They look like balloons, but they're not really quite balloons. And that research goes on for 20, 30 years. Who's funding it? Who's supporting it? Nobody knows. But the Sonora Air Club did exist. Thomas Del Shia, I think it was Thomas, did live in that time period. After 20, 30 years, he leaves he goes back through texas goes back overseas 20 years later after all this all of a sudden airships start appearing over cities in america starting with sacramento right you know where sacramento is it's right outside of sonora california balloon type airships exactly like he had he drawn up. But filling a balloon with

air, to me, it's not the same thing as anti-gravity. It wasn't air. They didn't really understand or use helium or anything then. What was it filled with? Zerum 525. Okay. Also known as Red Mercury. Okay. According to some of these documents, not documents, but stories, you know, red mercury, right? So the Turk is that they

discovered something about rotating, magnetic fields and this red mercury serum 525, which created an anti-gravity effect. Rotating mercury, I'm all behind it. Yeah. So then they, even if I don't really completely grasp it, so then they, the airship sightings go back across the country and then over the Atlantic and disappear. It's almost as if they came to America to the most isolated place they could find and worked on this stuff for 20, 30, 40 years,

figured it out and then brought it back to Europe, where I assume it ended up where the rubber plant ended up and we ended up with the Nazi Bell 45, 50 years later. 1897, all that stuff happens. The great airship flap of the United States.

Now, I've read, you can maybe correct me that the Nazi Bell was looking at rotating metallic, rotating mercury as its power source. That's the speculation. nobody knows for sure because we don't have the plans. But if you look at, if you look at a flying sasha, the Hannibos, right?

You look at the cupola in the middle. I didn't know these parts had names, but okay. It's called cupola. Okay. Or a coppola. I prefer cupola because it doesn't sound like Francis Ford Coppola, which we don't want to go there. Okay.

But if you put the Nazi bell, the way it was supposed to be the size of it, inside a disc shape, you would get that exact shape. Yes, you would. It's the anti-gravity. Now, I don't know how they figure out how to maneuver and control. But if that was an anti-gravity reactor, which is what I think the bell is, then that's how you create a flying saucer. So this isn't reverse engineered then. This is just a genius. This is a genius. There was Schellenberger, I think it was, who had all these different ways to control disc-shaped apparatus

against the pull of gravity and air and all that stuff. So we have all this stuff. So we have all this stuff. and it's really interesting. And it goes into the, you know, 1920s. And you have testless research, which is interesting stuff, but completely different. And then along comes this guy in the 1920s named T. Townsend Brown.

Yep. And what is T. Townsend Brown doing? Well, he's building disk-shaped test rigs of multi-layers of electrically conducting and dielectric materials, kind of a lot. like do you remember arts parts sure Linda Moulton Howell kind of exactly like that is he the G engine guy I know that anti-gravity was very they were very open about it and then it suddenly disappeared yeah

that I'll get to that so okay we're getting there okay so so then he um is doing these experiments where he's electrifying these discs and he finds out now again I'm not an electrical guy they they flash electricity high voltage electricity and of these metal discs, which are made of these layers, which he patented, and I believe are still classified patents as to exactly how you build these. And all of the positively charged ions? Sure. Go to one pole and the negatively charged ions go to the other pole, and the thing shoots in the direction of the positive pole, simply by electrifying it. Then he discovers that the

But it has to repel from something. The earth spank that? No. No, because, what it does is the electricity creates a trough, gravity trough in front of the disc in the positively charged polar direction and it just falls in that direction.

So this, the Albuquerra engine is based on the same theory. Exactly, it's warp drive. It's basically warp drive. You're warping space time locally and surfing along the wave. Now I got it. In a straight line.

This is what he's experimenting with. And he claimed, you know, he claims success, right? And he finds that the more massive the disc is, the better the effect. And then he figures out that, well, it wears off after a while. So he starts thousands of times a second,

charging, charge, stop, charge, stop, charge, like that. And according to the papers and stuff and the articles about the guy, it works. He basically negates gravity. So this is another way to negate the effects of gravity. And that episode, I think I watched it on the stream you have going. It came up.

you know, I'm like the plasma one and the electric universe, just fascinating because there's so much stuff in there that's probably true, right? So T-Tows and Brown is doing his work. He goes through all the problems that inventors always go through. He loses his funding, he gains his funding. But after the war, the U.S. Defense Department, after the foo fighters and all that stuff, and MJ12 comes into existence, all of the defense contractors are nuts about any gravity. They are crazy for it. We've got ads that were placed in papers and stuff. We're looking for engineers, looking for theoretical physicists. Oh, like Hermann Oberth and Werner von Braun and people like that. Just absolutely crazy to get into this. And it goes all the way up to 1958.

And then it stops. That's correct. It stops. Do you know what happened in 1958? I can guess, but go ahead. T-Towns and Brown sat down with the Office of Naval Intelligence and issued them a report. I think it was Project 1794 titled How to Make an American Flying Saucer. And it's got a little illustration and everything. It's really cool. You can find it out there. Can you find that? Yeah, you can find it.

I got it somewhere on my computer. So they took his information, said, thank you very much. And then they took everything black. Yes. And to me, the proof of it, you know technology curves, right, obviously. Whether it's processors or whatever. So you got the, what do they call it, the Murphy, but...

Moore's Law? Moore's Law, yeah, where the technology gets faster and faster and faster. So you look at the speed of human, of transportation. You got a man walking, you know? Maybe if he's a fast guy like Tyreek Hill, he can run 22 miles an hour.

And he gets on a horse. Maybe he gets at 28 miles an hour on a horse. Horse and carriage, wow, now we're close into 30. Oh, the first steam train, we're at 35 or 40 miles an hour. Then we have balloon can go as fast as the wind. can blow it right hot air balloon then we have propeller airplanes which can go a couple of

hundred miles an hour in some cases then we have jet airplanes which can go supersonic and then we have chemical rockets which have gotten up to about i think on a max 28 000 miles per hour measured relative to everything else so the curve on speed of transportation goes from roman times or basically let's say the 1800s because we've worked 100 really yeah basically horses and horses and horse and carriage to chemical rockets like that. And then you're telling me that in 1960, we flatlined ever since? No way.

There's no way if you follow that curve. There is no way. So we made a breakthrough in 1960, give or take, for basically flying saucer technology. And I think that's what Mark McClandish saw. I do too. was so we have the technology. I'm sure we have had the technology since 1960,

basically flying saucer technology. Maybe we can't go to Alpha Centurie, like the Jupiter 2, you know, lost in space. We can't do that yet. Maybe we can't, but we can do anything here locally that flying saucers can do. From 1960 onward, I'm positive. But those people that control that technology,

I don't believe they have any interest in going to Jupiter. But here's my question. gets back to your your bullshit. How are you powering that craft? Can you zero point? Is that zero point? All you have to do is figure out, again, it's rotation. You have the internal system.

That's probably why the red mercury rotating with counter-rotating magnetic fields and bars inside creates, I don't want to say a singularity, because that's all bullshit anyway. But it's... But it could pull energy out. It's gating energy out. And once you open that window,

it's simply a question of, it's like a thrust vector or a thruster. You know, it's just how far open do you want to go? How much you want to push out or pull in? Because you're pulling it in from the higher dimension. So that's probably how you power it. Right. But they, you know, this may have led them to many other things

like plasma reactors and all that. I don't know. And it doesn't take that much electrical power, according to Brown and his experiments, to make the thing, I mean, you're defying the law, the so-called laws of physics, you're already defying that by simply electrifying the hull in the right way, with the right materials, and creating the gravity trough.

I think that's defying our laws of physics, but probably not universal. Right, the laws of physics that we're taught, we're allowed to believe in. That's why when I see these people in the congressional hearings, well, this defies all the laws of physics. I'm like, I think we broke all those in like 1960. Right. So this idea that, oh, their technology is so much more advanced than ours, no, it's not. because we've broken, we've busted all these theories.

We've figured them all out a long time ago. So are they using this technology? Is there a secret fleet? Is there a solar warden? Probably. Okay. You know, whether you want to call it solar warden. I mean, John Lenderd-Wals and stuff, I don't know what those things are, but those are pretty wild, right?

So you have access to this technology, but are you fighting wars in space? Are you, who are the factions? Did the Nazis come, you know, did they start their own separate line and go out, are they one of the factions out there? And are they necessarily the bad guys? You know, there are people who say, no, these guys are way worse than them. And there's the reptilians, the lizard people. Right.

You know, so as long as they're fighting each other and they're not involving me, I'm kind of okay with it. Why aren't we aware of any of it? I don't know. Are we looking? I mean, Walson, is anybody doing what he? he's doing trying to prove him wrong? No. I mean, when I talk about this, people will say, well, we would know if they were launching rockets into space and all of that. But my argument is they're not rockets. No. They're just floating stuff up there. They're just quietly,

quietly floating stuff up. Which, by the way, brings me to some videos I'd love to show you. We can call them up. Okay. So, you know, I see the videos, the TTSA stuff. And we've talked about that. I guess we're going to do that later. And to me, those are, all conventional aircraft, spacecraft of some kind. I'm not impressed by them. I tend to agree. Are we looking at Sedoni? Oh yeah, by the way,

this is a pyramid in China and this is a pyramid on Mars. And you notice the slumping, you notice the curvature. I also notice that they're eight-sided, which...

Yeah, you tell me the difference between those two. I can't. except one's on Mars, so it must be natural. The pyramid on Mars, that's huge, right? Are we talking a couple of miles? This one or like the D&M pyramid by the face? Yeah, it's a mile and a half long by a mile and three quarters wide. But it's pentagonal, and it's just absolutely fascinating.

And it's also, the D&M pyramid is what it's called named after DPA on Molinar. It's bilaterally symmetrical about two different axes. Okay, I'm just going to tell you. Somebody built that. There's just like, there's no arguing on that. Send a surveyor there. What are we doing? Right.

And, you know, the close-up pictures, I know, I know you're not wild about the close-up pictures of the face on Mars, but I can show you stuff on there that's, that's all artificial. These are walls, you know, these are rooms. I want to believe. It's just a question of getting to it. And there's this one place, there's Vatican City on Mars. What? Oh, you haven't seen that one?

No. Okay, well, wait a minute. What were we going to do? We're going to go look at Secret Space Program videos. Yes, Mars will do another day, because there's so much. Can I tease you, though, just a little bit? Sure, sure. Okay, so.

I hope there's nothing on your thumb dry that's going to get us in trouble. It doesn't say Amaranth, so I'm okay. Oh, no. You don't have, yeah, you don't have a, you can't do it. Okay. So this is not in any of the books. It's going to go in the next edition, but this guy. You're working on another book?

No. Okay. Okay. I'd rather poke needles in my eyes. But there's an image. And I don't have, I can't, this is bizarre. I can't get a JP2 viewer to work on my computer, any of them. But this is a JP2 and it was discovered by, God, I'm sorry, I've forgotten your name. God, dang it.

We'll spliced it in later. Scottish researcher, brilliant guy. I'll figure out his name. And he's looking at this JP2, which is ESP 09190303. blah, blah, blah, red, and he's looking. And I went through, and I downloaded this on a previous computer when I could get JP2s to load. And I went and looked, and this is really there. So he's looking at these things, and, you know, these images from Mars reconnaissance orbiter are gigantic. Like, you have to, you know, you spend an hour and a half, and you've barely covered a quarter

of it or a tenth of it. And he looks, and he starts looking on Mars, and he zooms up, and he starts to see stuff. Yeah, I've seen these. And what does he see? He sees blocks and mud flows. And then he sees this linear pattern. If you're listening on an audio platform, go to YouTube, like right now. It's like awesome.

And the closer you get, the more obvious it becomes that these are foundations of buildings. The only problem is they're on Mars. Foundations, it looks like there's actual buildings. And there's actual buildings. And there's actual buildings. And see this one right here, I like that one. Yep. I call that, that's why I call it Vatican City,

because that looks like the Vatican Dome to me. It does. It does. And there's other buildings. Now, this is, what's happening here is these blocks, this is all filled in with silt and mud. These are exposed somehow, some way. And the closer you get to this, the more obvious it becomes that every single bit of this

is parallel artificial structure. How much of this is enhanced? Oh, virtually not. I like like you could because if you look at this this is still in his JP2 viewer oh yeah he's not put this in Photoshop yet and I went and I went through and I looked and it looks exactly like this with no I haven't nobody's gone through and enhanced the white lines of the walls or any of that stuff so when people want to tell me there's nothing artificial in Mars I'm like yeah sure okay whatever buddy I actually have this in my wall somebody printed it out for me yeah these

are crazy. These are crazy. So, anyway, that's a, that's a city. All right, we need to take one last break and come back and do some secret space program. Yeah, because then I want to show you, we talk about the other videos. I want to show you the real videos. So we need to, we need to have you back, obviously, but we have to blast through secret space program, disclosure, which I'm putting in quotes.

My big question is, how can some? many people keep this a secret for so long? Yeah. Thousands, 20,000, 100,000. How do you keep this a secret? Are we doing it now? Where are I doing it? We're talking. They're secret. These people aren't here. You know, you had the whole thing with Gary McKinnon, the non-terrestrial officers list. Right. They're not on the planet. So they're not talking about it. And people have talked about it that have been there. Now, we have the whole 20, and back program. We have all the people that have been through the Secret Space program that kind of tell the same story. And are they believable? Not really. Not really. Because it's the

same story kind of over and over again. But one of the things I can accept happens, you know, MK alter is a real thing. Brainwashing is a real thing. Implants are a real thing. You know, I've got this hearing problem. I'm going to get MRI. It's like, what if they find something in there, you know? Take that sucker out. Maybe my hearing will get better again. These are real things. And so people do have these experiences. I mean, basically, how can you say alien implants or secret space program implants are not real when Elon Musk is literally invented a brain implant?

Okay, so they are real. So even the whole support structure, the guy who mops the floor, ground control, everybody could be just brainwash, controlled? It could be that they're, yeah, and memory loss. You know, I've known a lot of people that have been abducted over the years that I think a lot of it, there's mass memories, there's how does your body, your brain adapt to the trauma of what you experience in some of this? So some of the stuff, I believe.

And I can see where they're, you know, they're just, they're coping. They're coping with the memories of what they have. And the thing is, is that where's the tangible proof? If this is a superior technology, how are you going to prove that you were part of the secret space grow around. They're not going to have a dossier on you. You're not going to have a service record. So I tend to think to myself, I can't discount exactly everything that these people say, but I will admit there's not much proof of it, except when you go through and make a case, well, we had this technology and it looks like we had this, and you have stories like Mark

McClandish. And then you have some video footage of things that I think are more likely to be secret space program than aliens. I have an episode coming up on Bell Labs how all of a sudden they have fiber optics and microchips and all kinds of things suddenly. If Philip Corso was lying, where'd they get the ideas from?

Right. Right. It's a Terminator 2 thing. Well, we didn't really know how it worked, but gave us ideas and he just thinking certain directions we wouldn't have gone in. So before we get to your videos, let's just wrap up on disclosure. Okay. I tend to not trust anyone from intelligence

military intelligence, naval intelligence, Air Force intelligence, pre-approved from the Pentagon. These sound like spokespeople to me, not whistleblowers. Where are you on this? I'm 100% with you on that. You look at all these people that are influencing this congressional committee. Tim Burchett, stand-up guy. Guy wants to get the truth, smart guy.

Anna Paulina Luna, I think. She's serious about this, too. But they're not getting the right advice from the right people. These people are part of the cover-up, not part, they're not going to lead us to the truth. They're not going to lead us to the solution because they all come from the intelligence community with the intelligence community agenda. As I've been watching this, it started with the TTSA videos in 2017. Why did they release those?

All of a sudden, aliens, UFOs, aliens, UFOs, and everybody's on TV talking about aliens and UFOs. Elizondo comes out. He's telling us, oh, this is a flying saucer. And that's a flying saucer. And by the way, I have a book deal in a TV show and all that stuff. And that photo is fake and I apologize. Yeah.

I apologize for this crop, this crop circle or, you know, cropping being a UFO, not being a UFO, and the chandelier behind me and, you know. Yes. Okay. So these people grush,

I hate to say it, they don't have any credibility. Christopher Mellon. Remember when Mellon got up there for TTSA in front of a picture of a birthday balloon talking about the UABD? I do it.

I do. It's ridiculous. People ask me what I thought about the age of disclosure. I said it made me furious because everybody who contributed was part of the IC. And it was the first time Hal Putoff admitted to how they bury these SAPs inside private contractors to avoid FOIA requests. And I've been saying that a long time and get attacked for it. Here's his own words. This is how we hide it from you. Yeah. And I didn't see anyone. If you put James Clapper in. Clapper, yeah. You know, he shouldn't be doing TV. He should be doing time. Well, that may be coming. So let's wait and see how that works out. If there's just, it's coming.

I agree. And I'm looking at these people and I'm like, how did these people become UFO experts? You know, I've been lucky. I've been on, I've been on some shows. I've been on the news a few times. But how does, how does Elizondo become the UFO spokesman? What was his job at the Pentagon? Forgetting the whole at-tip thing, whether it even existed, whether he ever ran it. What's his job? Counterintel? He's an Army counterintelligence grunt.

So what does he know about aerospace? Grush also counterintel, yes? Grush was counterintel. So is this a limited hangout? Are they dripping disclosure? Are they preparing us or is this all a smokescreen? What are they doing? because they're doing something

and we're learning nothing. I should have told you, before we started, please don't ask me any questions you don't really want the answer to you, so I'm going to give you an answer. Fire away. There are two polarized states of consciousness

in this universe, I think, philosophically. The Christ consciousness and the satanic consciousness. What we are looking at is they are trying to elevate the alien above man. I am a firm believer that man has a very special relationship to God, that we are his chosen people. Maybe not any specific members, but we are here for a reason, that we are important. That's why the aliens are here is because of us. It doesn't have to do with oil. They don't need our oil. They don't need water. They don't need air. They don't need gold.

The only thing worth having on this planet is us. And I think it's because their path back to God, back to source, back to creation, call it what you want, is dead. You look at the grays. What do they choose? Intellect with no love. We chose free will. And I think they think that they can get there through our genetics.

If they can steal what God gave us, they can become like us. and survive. I'm slowly coming around to that there is a major spiritual element to this. It's unavoidable. Are these aliens actually extraterrestrial, or are they? Yes, I believe so. Yeah, I don't believe they're related to us. If they were, they wouldn't need our genetics.

The point is, we're not on their planet. We're not coring out, you know, the cornholes of their animals. We're not experimenting on them. We're not cross-breeding with them. Why? Because we don't need them. They need us. And the problem that just drives me nuts about all this

is that everybody who's involved in this, everybody who's getting the time to talk about this, is trying to elevate the alien above us. A threat. They are weaker than us. If they weren't weaker than us, they wouldn't freaking be here. Elizondo said this is the biggest national security threat.

It's not. If they could do anything, they would have done it. Of course. I think the only thing they've done is stop us from using nuclear weapons. Possibly. Well, I hope they continue to do that. So I've been trying to figure that out. I'm like, looking at the TTSA stuff, I'll make, there's an agenda here.

It's a political agenda, and it took me a long time to figure it out. And the answer is, I believe ultimately that, and I don't think Elizando is a mastermind of any of this or Grush or Mellon. None of these guys know anything about aviation. So you have this committee thing where you show what's clearly a video. Remember the last hearing, clearly a video of a drone or a missile hitting a targeting balloon that's being dragged by an airplane. Yes. And saying, oh, a Hellfire missile hit a UAP and didn't do any damage. I'm like, really?

It looks like it popped to me, like a balloon popped. Which is how they test those, by the way. Exactly how they test those. So they have, and that's, and then the oldest, look at the three little things that come out. Yeah, those are telemetry sensors that are tethered to the inside of the balloon. So they don't have anybody with any expertise on aviation advising them. They've got all these guys from the intelligence community who are business people and counterintelligence grunts and have all these other assignments that have nothing to do with what are we actually looking at here.

So they're not getting any good advice on the committee. And the whole purpose of it, because they keep repeating it, because the Congress keeps being told, oh, this is superior to our technology. No, it's not. As we just discussed, we've had flying saucer technology, I think, since 1960. So they're not superior to us. And the idea is to elevate the alien above human, the man, above man, so that they can then eventually exert a level of control over us,

that they can't otherwise do if we didn't buy into that. So I'm here to fight against that mentality. Well, good. If the alien was better than us, why are they here? We're not on their planet. If anti-gravity and zero-point energy became widely available, that is the end of the entire power structure of this planet. I believe they are widely available, but they're being kept from the public.

Yes, yes. So I think we've had it. And here's the best analogy. Remember when you first started driving? Sure. I was terrified. Sure. I actually didn't do it when I was 16.

I waited until I was 18. I failed my first driver's test. Did I? I think I got, I couldn't believe how lucky I got on my parallel parking. But here's the thing. When you first start driving, you're inferior. Even if you have a car, just like, you know, that guy's Ferrari is a car. My Toyota is a car.

My Buick Skylarke in my case is a car. But after a year, after a year or so, you're on equal. Right. Right. You've learned everything you need to learn about driving the first year you drive a car. We've had the keys since 1960. But it's not we, it's they, and who are they? They people who are a part of the secret governments and cabals that are controlling the flow of information. Is that an extension of MJ12? Yeah, I think so ultimately. Because if it's not MJ12 specifically, it's MJ12 symbolically in it in terms of, you know,

they then scattered out and splintered into all these other smaller groups. So what we have to do is crack open those eggs. Just break one of them and get our hands on the technology or get the technology released somehow, which I do think that we're getting close to that. Yeah, I don't want any more Intel guys. I want some low-level scientist who sneaks out a piece of equipment or something. That's what I want.

You mean like Bob Lazare? Like Bob Lazar. Yeah. And by the way, I'll tell you about Bob Lazar. I worked in airspace for a long time. People tried to say, oh, he might have been at Area 51, but he was the cook, you know. He's a scientist or an engineer, one of those two.

He's very intelligent man. He is, and he turned out to be right about a few things. Yeah. All right, you have some videos for us? Well, yeah, so the point is that this technology does exist, and it has existed for quite some time. And the videos that they show in these hearings, every single one of them I can explain, you know, USS Omaha,

the last one with the test, all this stuff, all the TTSA stuff, all can be explained as conventional drones. Tick-Tac, yeah, Tick-Tac, yeah, Tick-Tac, you know, oh, and the Tick-Tac zooms off the side of the screen, and I'm like, did anybody notice in the reticel there, the little, it says, zoom factor? Notice the newer videos, they're cropping that out. Yeah, so they just actually zoomed too far and lost.

of course. Lock. And then the video ends. So I give you, I probably, can I see the next five seconds of that video where you zoom back out and reacquire the target? Now, the Tick-Tac might be

some sort of exotic drone or something, but there's nothing in any of those videos that shows me anything that's not conventional. All below the speed of sound, all at regular altitudes. But then there's other stuff, and I'm like, why are they not talking about this? Why is the testimony of Robert O'Dine

not being read into the congressional record? Why are we not talking about? talking about Clifford Stone's experiences with the crash retrievals. You know, he was a sweet guy, an honest guy. I interviewed him. There's not a dishonest bone in his body. Why is this not there? Why aren't we talking?

Why isn't Whitley Streeper in front of this committee? Now, people have problems with Whitley. I do sometimes. I don't sometimes. But his story deserves to be heard. Something happened to him. There's no question. Something happened to Willie.

Something very traumatic happened to him. So then the question becomes, okay, why do we not see these videos? How do I maximize this? Same thing with that green button up or left. Okay. So why do we not see these videos? This video here. This is STS-48 from, I believe, 1991.

It was played on the Larry King show, among many others. And I've debated this, argued this with, you know, with NASA guys and one every time. And this is, but this is not being discussed. I don't think the people on the committee even know this video exists. You want video of flying saucer here. Let me show you one. Let me show you one.

This is STS 48, 1991, over Australia. This is the air glow layer of the earth. Top right there. This is the hard horizon of the earth. Okay. These objects, some of them are stars in the background. Some of them are maybe ice crystals tumbling. This, I don't know what exactly this is.

It's like some sort of mark on there. That looks like a smudge. If you, it's not a smudge. It's a light. It's something, yeah. I mean, it's looked at it. So if you notice down below in the dark part of the earth there, this is at night, it's moving into the sunrise.

The shuttle is moving into the sunrise. Notice there are objects that are moving around down there. What are those flashes of light we're seeing on the... That's lightning. Okay. Which is interesting. Yeah. Because the next video I'm going to show you, it's pretty interesting stuff.

Now, if you watch the center of the screen right about in here, in a couple minutes, you're going to see an object. And that object is going to pop right up over the physical horizon. Okay. And then it's going to move to the left, and then something's going to happen. Okay, come on, play. That says it's still playing. So. Is it slowed down or is that our computer?

I think it's the computer. Maybe just pause it for a quick second. Maybe let it catch up. There we go. There we go. So there it pops up, flies along, right over the horizon, and then... I see it. Bang.

Wow. One shot fired, two shots fired. Wow. 45-degree turn instantly. Into space. Into space. So this is not an aircraft reflection. It flew into space.

Yep. And what did we see? Were those launches? Well, let's talk about that. Let's catch it. So it pops up over the physical horizon. Yeah. It had to be, and you know, people have done calculations on this before.

It has to be about as big as the space shuttle to even be visible. It pops up over the horizon. It flies along the horizon, the physical horizon of the earth. The flash goes off. That's what, come on. Flies along the physical horizon. And it's traveling at several thousand miles per hour, apparently in the atmosphere. Right. I mean, it must be we see the curvature of the earth.

Yep. Sorry for you flat earthers there. And then bang, it turns, it accelerates. It goes through the air glow layer. One thing, two things get shot, and it disappears. So a couple of interesting facttoids about this video. Dr. Jack Casher of Nebraska, physicist out of Nebraska, said,

broke it down frame by frame. He said the object, when the flash goes off, actually stops for 1.5 seconds. Comes to a complete dead stop. Goes from a couple, like a thousand miles an hour to a dead stop,

and then 45 degrees. The turn itself, if there was a physical pilot inside, would be the equivalent of dropping like a 14-story building. Sure. So whatever this is, it has an inertial dampening field,

which makes it able to make a turn like that. Flying along, stop, and then shh, like that. But that also fits into the warp drive we're talking about. Exactly. The technology we talked about earlier Right, you have no inertia in that inside. Exactly. Because you're in Star Trek,

it's a subspace bubble, right? Which is why photon computers wouldn't really work, but we're not going to get into that. And then the, okay, so then the Flash. Now I've argued this with James Oberg, big fat NASA guy, and gone back and forth with lots of them. Let's not attack his weight. Go ahead. Go ahead. Come on. Last time I heard from him, I'm like, you're still alive? Anyway, sorry. Okay. So James Oberg, I've argued with this guy. Oh, well,

that's just a, that's just a Vernier thruster on the shuttle. You know, they have these little thrusters to maneuvering thrusters, right? So the Flash. So, What he didn't know is that I know a guy, L. Blaine Hammond, I know a guy who used to fly to space shuttle. He flew seven shuttle missions. He was a pilot. So I had him at Mufon O.C. With Dr. Bob Wood. And I said, Blaine, if you ever seen a flash like that? He goes, never. Never. I've been in space for like 100 hours. And the thrusters don't do that. You don't see a flash. You see nothing. Whatever that is, it's got nothing to do with the space shuttle. And then the streaks. Okay. I wonder about those. Guess where they were right over

the CIA base at Pine Gap, Australia. No way. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So what were the streaks? Well, because they were moving really fast. Hoagland actually speculated in his excellent analysis on this, that they were probably a rail gun, that a rail gun, which is just super accelerates particles into space, but it was no match, obviously for what we saw in the video. Absolutely no match.

This was in the 90s? 1991. Don Eckers. I want to credit Don Eckers. I think it's Don Eckers who found this. Just recorded it one night on NASA Select TV. Now, I've heard there are higher resolution versions of this, but I don't know that for a fact.

Right. So this is one of the ones floating around. Well, Railgun Tech is real now, but we're talking 30 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So what do we have now? Now, this one's even better. I like this one even better.

But again, the point being, why is the committee not being shown this? I mean, I'd be happy to go there and show them these videos and talk about what we know about them and what studies have been done on them and just say, let's talk about these videos. because these, there's no question, they're officially from NASA. Have you tried to get in touch? How do I get a whole? I know a guy. Through Corbell, through George.

I'm not on great terms with them because I criticize them. Michael, you got to be nice. No, I'm not going to suck up. You don't have to suck up, but you need access. Yeah, well, I'm working on it. Okay. I'll tell you off the air. You live here in Vegas.

Our rep is not going to get you there. Yeah. Well, okay, so Tom Reid, who is the Reed abduction case, which is a really good abduction case. Now you don't want to do abductions, but it's a really good one. And I believe Tom, it's telling the truth, knows Burture really well. And what we're trying to do, there's a lot of political stuff with me in the Roswell Museum for some reason, but we're trying to get into Roswell this year, have Congressman Burchett there, and he's agreed to come. Whether they're going to pay me to show up, I don't know. but I might go, you know,

I don't go unless I get paid, but, you know, I might in this case, but we're, I'm going to try to get a hold of him then. So we'll see. He would hear you out, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

So, okay, so this other video is from a later shuttle mission, STS 80, which took place, I believe, in 1994. St.S. 80, space transportation system, 80 mission. What you were looking at is Santiago, Chile, Chile, which, by the way, is at 33 degrees latitude in the Southern Hemisphere. Just thought I'd point that out. The Mace isn't in terraform, Chile.

I can guarantee you that. Okay. Okay. All right. And it's nighttime. Okay. And there's guess what? Another electrical storm going on.

So, let's just play this video, and I want you to watch San Diego very closely at the beginning here, because something really interesting is going to happen. Whoa. Yeah, I'm sorry. If you're just listening, you're going to have to watch this on you.

that was unbelievable. It looks like it... Well, I think hecklefish would say it's a giant sperm flying out of... It kind of look like it. What would be the size of that object? Oh, massive. Massive, because that's the city. You're looking at the whole layout of the city there,

so it would be miles, a couple of miles across. Could this be corroborated with ground video? Yeah, if anybody took it. Well, how could that whole city just miss it? I don't know. It's a good question. It's massive. See, we watch it again.

On these missions... Oh, I got past it. Okay. On these old shuttle missions, do they have cameras everywhere? Are they specifically looking at this? They had specific places, but... No, there it goes again. But they could aim it.

They could aim it at stuff they wanted to. Now, this video advances as it goes along. And then they zoom back out. There's the air glow layer again. This is a better video, obviously. The hard horizon is more visible. That's where we just were. There's the air glow layer.

And then they start. start panning around and oh yeah you know just looking around and they zoom in and they zoom out and again you see an electrical storm going on down there which is interesting I don't know what that might have to do with it but that's something to do with it now so then they then they zoom in and the camera gets a little overexposed from them zooming in too much but watch again right in the middle of the screen that's a tunnel effect from zooming out on the camera yep I saw the Flashes.

More lightning. Okay. Okay. Lightning, yeah. My gut tells me the lightning is important. I don't know why. Yeah, I agree with you, but I don't, there's a connection. So now they're going to zoom back out.

And then it's say hello to my little friend. Wow. Comes flying in. Whoa. Wow. So whatever this is hits the atmosphere. I think I saw the atmosphere displaced. Did I not?

It's possible, but this is crude video. And then it flares up, but then watch the other thing, AJ. It slows down. Yeah. It's slowing. down. That is a powered spacecraft in low Earth orbit, hitting the atmosphere and slowing down. Now, it appears to have come to a complete stop.

It's probably not. It's actually stationkeeping with a shuttle. In other words, it's matching velocity and distance. And what are these other things that come suddenly into the image? But this large object was a bright kind of circle. Now it looks hollow and... Yeah. It could be plight. plasma or something, but I think it's a physical object because of other stuff that's going to happen. And this takes a little while to develop.

Sure. But there's no question either on either one of these. Well, we'll talk about that in a minute. Here comes another object under the cloud. See that one coming towards it? Some friends are coming to visit him. Where'd they come from? Here's another friend coming in.

He is holding his position and distance from the spacecraft. How far away do you think that is? Oh, I have no clue. There's another one just hit the atmosphere. Wow. Who the hell is that? Now, some of this is the primitive camera systems making it flare up, changing the shape. But there's a physical reaction going on, which is what's creating the bright flash.

So while you're looking at that guy on the left who just hit and flared up, now you go back to the original object who's in that dark spot there. I'm watching him. He's starting to move back the other direction. Yeah. And again, faster than the shuttle is a... moving away so it's not a camera effect. And now a couple of friends have come up.

Notice that this guy in the lower right hand corner, this guy here, he's changed direction. You cannot change direction in low Earth orbit if you are an ice crystal or a rock or a space shuttle. No, I mean, another object just flew in the upper right. Yeah, another one over on the top there. Now, these three guys are going to get together and have a little huddle. Now, look, the atmosphere is being displaced there. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would need somebody who's a really good...

No, let's make a triangle. Let's make a triangle. And they zoom up on it so you know they're watching it. So you know this is not anything common. Let him be turned on my audio. I'm not hearing them comment on it because I'd love to hear the astronauts go. Holy smokes.

I don't think they're watching. This is like a camera out the back. These are cameras out the back of the shuttle. The astronauts might not even know that this stuff is going on. I thought I saw all these videos, but I've never seen this one. So that can't be debunked. I'm pretty sure I saw some displacement there.

Okay. You know, maybe not. Could have just been my eyes, but there's no question something happened. And maybe it's not glowing anymore because, you know, hey, we entered Atmo. We no longer need this particular field. Wow.

And you can speed it up and slow it down. But this thing changes direction, speeds up, slows down, matches course. I mean, that is a, what did, what did McClandish call it, the, the ARV? The ARV. I think these are ARVs because, because what you're talking about here is you're talking about, how did NASA know that these shows were going to be put on? They were filming, the, SDS 48, that was a film test.

Let's test our rail gun. Let's film it against one of our ARVs. That's what, I don't think the aliens called up NASA and said, hey, we're going to, be over Australia, Pine Gap, you want to take some shots at us, just for fun, test a few things out. That's not what happened. So I think these are both physical evidence in terms of video evidence of a secret space program that's operating. If these craft are here to help us, why the hell are we shooting rail guns at them? To test our weaponry. We can shoot down balloons instead, no? yeah but it's you know we're trying to get up to speed i mean that's what star wars was all about right

this is only this is regan is out of office but this is this is star wars development right experiments because it's 93 91 92 93 94 but it shows you that we at least i think had powered flying saucers of some with some kind of flying saucer technology heck at least in 1991 and like i said i think it goes back to 1960. I think you're right. With Trump increasing the DoD budget enormously, I wonder how much of that, this video is amazing,

how much of that is going to black programs? Oh, yeah, enormous amounts of it. I mean, and then who, but the bigger question, who controls those black programs? Well, that's the question everyone wants to know.

Who are the they? Is MJ12, a lineage that continues with Buildaburg and trilateral and all of those? Yeah, I don't know. Or is that just the conspiracy, or is that the smokescreen?

Like, oh, let them keep believing that Bill DeBerg is something secret. I think that's probably what it is. Probably, while we do this over here. Right. Right. So, I mean, but again, why is the committee not looking at this?

I have no idea. I'll tell you why. Because nobody who's connected to them either knows about this or wants them to know about it. They want to create. their own narrative. The narrative is, I think, cast in stone. The die has been cast. The narrative is they're superior to us. If we show this stuff to the American people in the world, and it's been

seen, it's been argued about, but you can't debunk it. No. I'll beat it, you know, I'll fight anybody who wants to try to debunk these videos. If you show this to the American people and say, this is what we've had for a long time, then suddenly the aliens don't seem quite as scary. No. And then you can't have your scary national security state thing. And I mean, it's right out of the Carol Rosen Werner von Braun playbook. What's happening in Congress right now? Yes, it is. The aliens are next. Right. We went through the Russians and the terrorists and we try to go back to the Russians and now we're going to pivot to the aliens. You always need a boogeyman. Yep. And it also feeds the military state. Yep. This is one of the reasons I hope that people actually listen to this show

because someone like Joe Rogan could get folks to watch, you know, 10 or 20 million people would watch this video. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. I saw a tweet today. They were saying, you know, if you think about it, Rogan is one of the most influential human beings on the planet in the last 10 years.

No question. I mean, his interview with Trump, that probably swayed a huge chunk of the electorate. It only needed to sway a percent or so. Yeah. It's amazing. How important that is. and your podcasters are just becoming way more important.

Yep. Anything else you want to show us? Those are my two favorites. Those are good ones. You know, I could go through the TTSA stuff and why they're not important, but... We'll save it. We'll save it. Yeah.

Because we ran long, but this has been a lot of fun. Let's see, I have to have you back for one, two, three, four, five more shows. So we'll get those in the... Those will be shorter, though. This is the marathon. Well, Mike Barrow, where can we find you online? Mike Barrett, blogspot.com. Just type in Mike Barrett.

It comes up. Do you talk about this stuff on your podcast? I do, yeah, kind of on that site. Right now, I'm also focused on the chaos around the world, the geopolitical chaos, and the financial aspects of it and where we're going. Because I think the entire planet is about to go through a major restructure. structuring in everything and aliens are part of it but I have my books available on amazon com and everywhere else and um you know I don't do aliens as much as I used to highly recommend

oh we could do we could also do a show on the financial banking system oh okay but if you're not buying gold silver food and ammo I don't know what you're doing oh I don't know buying paper currency good luck with that uh-huh okay that's what you that's what you let's see let's if we do that Let's see at the end of it if you still say good luck with that when I get done telling you everything. Well, yeah, sorry, we don't have time today. Mike Barra, appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me. So we just spent about four hours with Mike Barra, and we covered a lot.

JFK, MJ12, Nazi Bell technology, glass structures on the moon, the secret space program. That's a lot of threads to pull at once. So let me try to untangle some of this. Here's what we can verify. The Kennedy-Crucchev Joint Moon Mission Proposal, that's real. On September 20th, 1963, Kennedy stood at the UN and proposed exactly that. And here's the part that got me. Sergei Khrushchev, Nikita's son, confirmed in multiple interviews

that his father visited him at his dacha just weeks before Dallas and told him he was going to accept Kennedy's offer. The timing Mike lays out checks out. N-SAM 271, the memo Kennedy signed 10 days before his assassination, ordering NASA to begin cooperating with the Soviets on lunar exploration. that's also real. It's in the Kennedy Library. You could look it up.

Now, Buzz Aldrin being a 32nd degree Scottish-right Freemason, confirmed. Taking Masonic artifacts to the moon? Documented. He carried a Scottish-right flag to the lunar surface that performed what he called a communion ceremony in the lunar module that's in the official record. NT Townsend Brown? Real inventor.

Real patents. Real anti-gravity research throughout the 1950s. Defense contractors were openly recruiting for anti-gravity pros. Then after 1958, it all goes dark, every bit of it. I just covered some of this in the Project Anchor episode about the Earth losing gravity for seven seconds. And here's what's unproven but still fun. The STS48 video from 1991? Well, that footage has been debated for over 30 years.

NASA says its ice particles react to thruster jets. Businesses Jack Kacher ran frame-by-frame analysis and calculated the object stopped dead for 1.5 seconds. executed a 45-degree turn, and accelerated off into space. Now, Mike talked to a shuttle pilot who said he never saw a thruster flash like that in over 100 hours in orbit. Now, neither explanation deals complete. Now, the badge ban theory, J.D. Tippett as the grassy-null shooter, that's a big claim. There is a famous enhanced photograph. There is documentation in the 2017 JFK filed up showing Tippett and Oswald were seen together at Jack Ruby's Club one week before the assassination.

But connecting those dots, to say a Dallas cop fired the fatal shot? Well, we can't prove that. At least not yet. We're still waiting on more JFK files to be released. But if JD Tippett was the real shooter, I doubt he's in any CIA documents. Those are probably been shredded or burned by now.

My gut tells me one day we're going to know the full story, but that's not today. And here's what I keep coming back to. Mike's not wrong that the disclosure that we're getting feels curated. Every major voice testifying in congressional UAP hearings as an intelligence background. Elizondo, Rush, Mellon, counterintelligence, every single one.

Not aerospace engineers, not physicists, not pilots with nothing to lose. These are intelligence officers. Now, that's not proof of anything, but it's notable. And at Carol Rosen's story, Werner von Braun, von Braun, warning her on his deathbed

that the last card they'd play would be a fake alien threat to justify permanent militarization of space. Well, I've heard that story for 20 years. But when you watch what's unfolding right now, the framing of DOAPs as a national security crisis, the push for more black budget funding, will map pretty cleanly onto what she described. Now, Mike thinks they're trying to elevate the alien above humanity to make us feel small,

make us feel like we need protection from something bigger than us. And maybe he's right. Now, is it about control? Is it about technology worth trillions that would collapse the oil economy overnight? Or is it something else? Something so fundamental about who we're we are and where we come from that they genuinely don't think we can handle it? I don't know, but I'm done waiting for intelligence officers to tell me the truth about it. I'll keep an eye on this and I'll keep you posted. You can find Mike's books on Amazon. That's Mike Barra, B-A-R-A, and check out his website at mikebara.

com. Links down below. Until next time, be safe. Be kind. Know that you are appreciated. Bible said I would I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music So I'm singing like I should

The conspiracy theory becomes the truth And it never ends No it never ends Caddy I got stuck inside males home with M. Kaltru being only two of a wet Would the shadow people there Just thought the name was cold Like man's siding

And the solar stones still come To have got the The secret city underground Mysterious number stations Planet Cerbo2 Project Stargate and where the Dark Watchers found Nation