The Why Files: Operation Podcast - The Basement: Michael Salla | Nordics, Grays, and the Secret Space Program

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

-Discover how to move your IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver — with no taxes or penalties. Get your free portfolio review and free gold & silver guide from GoldenCrest Metals: visit https://whyfileslovegold.com or call [phone] now. -Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/re0kp2pw #CashAppPartner Terms apply. Bitcoin services by Block, Inc. See the Bitcoin disclosures at cash.app/legal/podcast. Dr. Michael Salla spent years in war zones - East Timor, Kosovo, Sri Lanka - teaching conflict resolution at American University. Then one press conference in 2001 cost him his academic career. Twenty-five years later he's still here, still citing his sources, and he's telling me things about Eisenhower, Antarctica and a soldier named JP that I can't shake. Some of it I couldn't debunk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we're sitting down with Dr. Michael Sala. Michael was a peace and conflict professor at American University just back from East Timor and Kosovo when he decided UFOs belonged in the curriculum. The Washington Post wrote about him. The university showed him the door. He spent 25 years building a field he calls exopolitics, and I can't research a story without tripping over his work.

Today we're covering the night Eisenhower went missing in 1954. The president finishes for a night, and the story is he was at the dentist. And that's what I told Gertie after my weekend in Reno. Did she buy it? She did not. Nobody with teeth is perfect goes to the dentist. They go gambling.

Anyway, we'll also be covering why Michael thinks Space Force was the real disclosure and a soldier named JP who says he's seen what's hidden under a mountain in Alabama. He also told me about a body on a beach in Grenada in 1977 and what the Prime Minister did about it at the United Nations. I'd never heard that story and I was surprised. The UN actually did something. Human, that's the most alien part of the story. I don't disagree.

Stick around after the episode. I'll pop back in and untangle the conversation. Let's go down to the basement. Dr. Salas here. I need to thank you because I don't know if I would have a platform without you. Really? Because you're, I can't really, I don't research a story and not find something that you've already covered. You're a great resource, so thank you.

You're welcome, yeah. I've had plenty of time to do it. You do a lot of stuff. Before we get into the, all the good stuff, I want to talk about what you were doing in East Timor and your diplomacy work there. You said that you had a lot of success getting the Timorese and the Indonesians to talk.

That's right, yeah. Could you give us just a quick background of what was going on there because it was pretty violent. Well, that's right, yeah. And how you got that, how you got them to work together? Right, that was the,

I went to East Timor, 1999, 93 and 94th, December, January of those years. And I spent two, three weeks there, and I was just touring the island of East Timor, interviewing people, just interviewing all the Timorese, what's it like?

I mean, are the Indonesians treating you well? or is this a very bad situation that you're in? And most of the East Timorese were like, now we're in a very bad situation. And some were kind of like very hesitant to reveal what's going on and very frightened. And they were watched. And I remember probably one of the most vivid instances

was I was interviewing a Catholic priest in East Timor. And he was telling me about how the Indonesians were repressing the Timorese that Tim Ries are Catholic, Portuguese colony, ex-Portuguese colony, and the Indonesians being Muslim. And he was saying that, well, right now there's a guy that's watching us talking, and as soon as you leave here, he's going to come in here and he's going to beat me up and get the information from me about what we talked about. And that was a Catholic priest.

Did that really happen, do you think, to him? Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was shaking. I mean, as we're talking, he was shaking because I was a researcher from Australia, and the Indonesians had this deference to Australians. I mean, because I guess they had a little bit, a lot to fear, or some fear that the Australian authorities would give them a hard time at the United Nations, and they already had a big problem with Portugal that was really championing the East Timorese cause.

So I went there because I just, that was one of the areas that I was very interested in, like, ethnic minorities and how are they treated by the majority? And often it's horrible. And so that's what I found. That's what I confirmed. And probably one of the most vivid things that happened after I left East Timor. Actually, I got arrested. You got arrested there? Yeah, in East Timor.

For what? I tried to meet the guerrilla leaders, one of the guerrilla leaders, because it was part of my research. And so I met someone and they said, well, there's the guerrilla leadership are here and they're fighting against the Indonesians. And so I said, well, I'd like to meet them. And they said, well, can you write some questions? And so I wrote some questions and they said that they would arrange for a meeting. Well, it turns out that the Indonesian security officials got my questions. The guy that got the questions from me, I guess he was detained,

or maybe he was a double agent or something. But the next thing I know, I get raided by the Indonesian police, and they are like, well, we hear you're trying to meet with the guerrilla leaders. Was it the valentil? I forget what they're called. Right. Yeah, that was so long ago now. But the Timorese guerrillas were fighting in the hills since East Timor was invaded in 1975.

So they were really very determined to resist to the very end. And at that time, and we're talking 1994, the guerrillas were still very active. It was a war zone. You had to go through police checkpoints or army checkpoints as you're traveling around East Timor. So were you detained? Yeah, I was detained and they asked me, well, what are you trying to do? And I said, well, I'm a researcher from Australia and I want to know what's going on. And I wanted to ask these questions.

And I guess I was fortunate because the Indonesian authorities asked me, well, what are your plans? Well, today I'm actually flying out of Dili, the capital of East Timor, and I'm going to Jakarta. and so they said, all right, well, we'll just escort you to the airport. So I gathered my things and they escorted me to the airport. And so I got off pretty lightly. That was fine. Yeah, that was fine. I was like, I wasn't roughed up or anything.

But I guess that was the advantage of being an Australian at the time that the Indonesian authorities did have a certain fear of detaining an Australian citizen and being given a hard time by the Australian authorities. And so they were happy for me to just flying to Jakarta. So I flew to Jakarta. And then I went to the... Another dangerous place. Well, you know, potholes.

Yeah. All over Jakarta. And so I went there and I went to the Indonesian... What was it? The Ministry of Information. And I spoke to the Minister of Information, Iro-Wan Aberdeino, the spokesperson. I can't remember his precise title.

And he proceeded to tell me how Indonesian treats the East Timorees really well. The East Timorees are very, very happy. And I was just there. That's not what they say. They're impressed, exactly. They are frightened. They're being harassed. They're intimidated.

I spoke to dozens of East Timorees. And they were just totally intimidated living in this place. state war zone and... What's it like now there for them? For the East Timorese? Well, after they gained independence, what was that in 1999 when they had the vote,

the UN vote, then they got their independence and the people that I had been interviewing and organizing events with now suddenly became ministers and prime ministers and all of that. So that was really good. That was really cool to see.

And is there still tension between the, with the Indonesians? I haven't been back, so I don't know the exact level of the tension, but I know that the Timorese, are they're very happy to get independence. Of course. Yeah. You've been in quite a few war zones. Why? Why?

East Timor, Sri Lanka and Kosovo? And Kosovo, yeah. Why are you in war hands? Again, I have this affinity for ethnic minorities that are oppressed by a majority that just doesn't recognize their rights to language or maybe political rights, suppress their culture, that they might suppress them on religious terms. and I guess it's a instinctive desire to help people who are being oppressed by larger groups. And I've always been drawn to that.

Let me see if I get this right. You've got your first degree was a bachelor's science. Then you moved into philosophy and then political science. That's right. So it was during that, I mean, that's quite different to go from a BS. to philosophy, was it during that journey where you decided that you had a mission? Because I've heard you describe that you feel like you have a mission. Yeah.

And you felt safe in these places. I did. Yeah, definitely. Was it during your academic training that the mission appeared? Well, after I did my master's degree on Ludwood-Winstein, the Philosophy of Language, so very kind of obviously a very esoteric topic. I got interested in the political philosophies of Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi. And so in both of those cases, and there were two other people that champion nonviolent resistance.

And so that really attracted me. I was very attracted to people that advocated nonviolent resistance to oppressive regimes. And I wanted to study them and support them. And so that's what I did in all those cases. In East Timor, Sri Lanka and also Kosovo, there were groups that were advocating non-violent resistance and, of course, Martin Luther King, Bahamah Gandhi and two others, Daniela Dolce from southern Italy, and also Dom Helda Kamara from Brazil, were all advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive structures or groups. And so I looked at that and I wanted to help that.

And so that's how my academic career took off. I was very drawn to these resistance movements involving ethnic minorities that were advocating peace. And this is citizen diplomacy, right? This is not working through official channels. That's right, yes. It was always citizen diplomacy, always finding people that were advocating nonviolent resistance and supporting them in some way, like getting funding from official organizations. I was able to raise money from different organizations

and we'd hold workshops. We'd be funded by groups like USA and D. Pentagon's not going to fund any of that. No, no. That's right. They didn't. In fact, I remember doing something concerning the East Timor conflict and it was very clear that Paul Wolfowitz,

who became a very high-level official, in the Second Bush administration. I mean, he was actually the U.S. ambassador to Indonesia. That's right, he was. And I was advocating on behalf of the East Timorese, and I remember sitting down and talking with him because there was a kind of State Department element involved, and he was very clearly sharing views that were sympathetic to the Indonesia.

Of course. And that's institutionally, that's what they do. They always support the state actors. They have deals. And I was supporting the little guy. And it's like, well, the T-Marie's want their freedom. And they're willing to fight for it using nonviolent means. And they did deserve support.

And of course, they did have a lot of support from different groups around the world and countries like Portugal and to a lesser extent, Australia, supported the Timorese resistance, but the official policy at the big level in terms of the US, Australia, NATO, European Union was to support the Indonesian state. Yeah, and if we don't like the state, then we just change it and support the new one. So what does success look like when you're doing that kind of work? So look, something quiet happened this week that most people missed. A former CFTC chair, the guy who used to regulate derivatives, went on record.

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Because we actually did achieve success, which was that the Timorese did get their independence. So the groups that were advocating nonviolent resistance, and we were able to get the United Nations involved in our efforts to bring about a reconciliation or some kind of agreement between the Indonesian those Indonesians that was willing to sit down and talk with the Timorese, they sat down and they talked and they said, well, let's come up with some kind of power sharing agreement where you could... Are you in the room for that? Are you in the room with them?

Oh, yeah, yeah. What is that like? Well, we've got people from Indonesian civil society. to sit down with people from East Timorese civil society. So this is in two generals in a meeting? No, no, no. These were members of civil society from both. And they were willing to talk.

I mean, this is one of the things that I found in my career as in peace and conflict resolution, that there's always people from both sides that are willing to talk. It's only the extremists that want to fight it out. I would bet that most citizens in a conflict, whether it's America and Iran, Most citizens of these countries would just prefer to sit down and talk.

Totally. Most, almost all I would wager. Yep, totally. So they want to sit, they want to talk. Yes. And they can come up with solutions. And it's natural for them to start talking about, well, what are your needs? What are your vital interests?

These are the key elements in conflict resolution. Whereas politicians go for positions. Well, this is our max, this is our. maximum demand or this is something we will not compromise on. They talk in terms of absolute positions, whereas people talk in terms of needs, vital interests, and you could always reach agreements when it's a need because ultimately it's like, well,

someone has a need for security, they have a need for financial independence. You can talk about that, and you can come up with solutions, but if you talk about positions, they tend to be win-lose, they kind of fix some outcomes. So that's what we're doing in conflict resolution, because if you tend to focus on what are parties' needs and vital interests, then you can come up with what's called variable-sum solutions

where you literally expand the pie. And do you get pushed back from the military? establishment in these countries and the power structures that exist? Yeah, because they tend to just get fixed on positions. And in the positions, it's like, well, there's only so much territory that can be shared or can be divided up. And so they tend to be these fixed-sum outcomes. And so in the case of East Timor and the Indonesians, it was, well, East Timor was either

going to be part of sovereign Indonesia or it's not. Those are the positions. That's a binary, yes. Whereas with the conflict resolution, it's like, well, can we come up with something that, you know, like, like, say, in a case of, say, Hong Kong or something, that, I mean, that's changed with China, but up until 1999, Hong Kong was this sovereign territory of Britain that was now going through a. kind of autonomous stage with China.

And the Chinese were going to respect that for 50 years. And that was a good bridging solution. But then the Chinese renamed when the Hong Kong population started to protest. And the Chinese said, we can't let this get out of hand. We've got to crush this. And so they crushed it. I promised that we're going to do aliens at some point. But I mean, I don't get a chance to – I've talked to a lot of political scientists.

So I have questions. And now that's that you brought up Hong Kong. Do you think we have a similar situation coming with Taiwan and is their citizen diplomacy that can help there? Because China would be useful for them. Yeah, there's definitely a possibility where the Taiwanese and the Chinese can come up with a solution like autonomy or something whereby you have one China, two systems.

I mean, that was supposed to work with Hong Kong, but it didn't because the Chinese saw that the Hong Kong population were really agitating for freedom and democracy, which they never really had under the British. No, they didn't. They didn't really have it under the British. But when it became an autonomous part of China, it was like, wow, we want democracy. And the Chinese said, well, no, no, we've got to put it out. We've got to put our thumb on this. We've got to stop it because they're just going too far. But with the Taiwanese, the Taiwanese really have had their own flourish in democracy since World War II.

So you do have an opportunity for two systems or like two political systems under the one sovereign state. And I think that's possible that the Chinese and the Taiwanese will eventually come up with a solution. but the Americans got their kind of finger in the pie and they can influence the outcome. Yeah, I don't think China wants to go to war over that or anything. I really don't. Yeah, there's no reason why they should go to war

and destroy what is a flourishing economy because eventually China and Taiwan will merge to some degree. Now, I think the Taiwanese, because they have this very vibrant democratic system and have had international recognition up until the 1970s, that they'll be able to maintain their system in the event of a solution with China

where they agree that, okay, you have your communist system on the mainland, we'll maintain our democratic institution and we'll reach some agreement where the Taiwanese army and the Chinese army will merge or... Really? Do you think China will recognize Taiwan as Taiwan? I think they'll come up with some solution where Taiwan can be peacefully incorporated into China

without there being a war. Well, that's the thing is that of course it can because it always can. you can always solve these without a war. Yeah. And there's no reason why the Taiwanese and China need to go to war because you have a large percentage of the Mandarin-speaking Chinese on Taiwan identifying with the mainland.

Sure. They're the refugees from Chiang Kai Shek's exodus from mainland China, so they see themselves as Chinese. I mean, and sure, you see another. group of Taiwanese that are more indigenous to the island and they see themselves as separate to Taiwan or separate to China and so they want to they're more supportive of independence sure but Taiwan is does have those very powerful divisions and you know the now they're in the opposition the kind of old Kumintang party now they're in opposition but they support some kind of

reconciliation with mainland China. Well, sure, war would stop chip manufacture, which would stop AI development, where China is doing very well. That would all grind to a halt. Nobody wants that. Yeah, exactly. Except America, maybe. I don't know what's going to happen. I want to go further back, because your CV had something very interesting from 1984.

I think it was before your Ph.D. You were an emergency teacher for Victorian education? That's right. Yeah, I was a high school teacher. Yes. So that's like a substitute teacher. What did that, a substitute teacher for like teenagers, right? It was in high school, a high school.

So what did that teach you about holding a room, holding attention? It was like the Wild West in there. It was like so many students that whose attention would kind of like vary. and you really had to find the way of holding their attention. And that took skill, that took experience. And I was a newbie at that time. And I thought, well, coming from a university and having these degrees, that I would just spell the information that needed to be taught.

And that somehow they would appreciate it. It was like, no, you had to make it interesting. You had to make them motivated. you had to appeal to them in some way to like take this seriously. And if you took the authoritarian approach, you'd lose them very easily. And I just wasn't equipped to do that. So I found out very, very quickly that I was going to be a very poor teacher, a very someone that couldn't hold their interest

because I didn't really find mathematics and science. something that was so appealing to me at the time. I mean, I was good at it. I was skilled and I got degrees and I could teach it at a high school level. But I think with teenagers, you had to be motivated. You had to really believe it. You do. Yeah, and you've got to be tough.

And you can't fake that. No, you can't. You can't fake that. Did you carry some of those lessons over to being a host about holding attention, making things, adding a little bit of show business, little drama to a story? Totally. I mean, what I learned was that you have to believe in what you're doing. Okay.

Yeah, you have to really feel that what you're doing is so important and you're committed to it. And so that's what I learned from that high school experience that you can't fake it. You can't do something that you don't totally believe in. and this whole exo politics journey that I've been on since 2001, it's 25 years now, you can't fake something. If you don't believe it, if you don't believe that you're doing researching or teaching or doing interviews on something that you feel to be profound and life-changing and tremendously valuable to the planet and to people,

that you have to believe that to your core. You have to feel that. And if you don't do that, you don't last. I mean, people, you know, nowadays maybe you can come along and fake it and make a lot of money. You can do that. But we see through that as the public. I think authenticity and sincerity, large audiences can see that. They can feel that.

And that's, you know, it's one of the things I like about you is when you change your mind, you admit it. So, and that reminds me, you talked about Gandhi and Morton Luther King, nonviolence. You, I think you published a paper in 96, that there is no nonviolent future. You just come back from Christina. Remember that paper? Pristina, Kosovo? Yes.

Yes, yes. So you, I mean, so what killed the Gandhian in you? that you didn't see a non-violent? Well, at that time, I was still very much committed to the non-violent path. And in Kosovo at that time, there was a non-violent resistance movement. And I was tremendously impressed

by the resistance of the Albanian minority in Kosovo to a non-violent solution that that was so disciplined. It really had to be there. because it was so violent. Because there were served paramilitaries there that were just ready to start ethnic cleansing. I mean, that's what it was.

I was there. I went to Pristina and I saw that. And they were very, very disciplined. They eschewed violent resistance. And so they set up their own school system. They set up their own economic system. They set up their own way of regulating the population or organising the population. And interestingly, they taught only the Albanian language rather than Serbian,

which was a very big move because it meant that the younger population that were growing up under this non-violent resistance, they didn't learn the language of Serbia, which was at the time supposedly in charge of Kosovo because of the breakup of Yugoslavia and they ended the autonomous status of the Albanians. Is this the Milosevic regime? That's right, yeah. And how did he allow schools to be formed? Well, it was very interesting because up until 1988,

Kosovo was an autonomous republic of the former Yugoslavia. So they had their own education system, health system, judiciary, police. They ran it themselves. And then Milosovich came in and he kind of just threw out this new narrative that Serbs are being violently suppressed and harassed in Kosovo. and the Serbian officials in charge of Serbia proper at the time he was an old-time socialist and he said well this is nonsense the Serbs are being treated well there's no problem in Kosovo

but Serbia about Slobodan Molesovich he used that to maneuver himself into power in Serbia so he became the president so he replaced the old socialist president And now all of a sudden Kosovo was like this place where Serbs are being harassed and being intimidated and their churches destroyed. And so he justified moving in and taking over all of Kosovo's institutions. So now the police, the judiciary, all of the education system, the health system, supposedly was transferred over to Serbia's control. But the people that were running those systems said,

no, we're not going to work with you. Of course. And that's how the nonviolent resistance took off. And there was a, the Albanian population of Kosovo were fortunate that they had a leader, Ibrahim Ragova, who was a Shakespearean scholar. He was Muslim, but he was a Shakespearean scholar. And he believed in Gandian nonviolence. And he said, this is the way to go.

We need to resist the Serbs nonviolently and make it a Gandian struggle. And that's what he did. and he got tremendous support from the West, especially the US. They supported that. And things began to unravel in 1999 when all of a sudden there was this shadowy group called the Kosovo Liberation Army that just kind of came up. And they were like really into arm struggle

and they had lots of weapons. And there's a whole story as to how they got those weapons. And they were wanting to fight. And of course then that led to the NATO intervention, and we know the story. But up until that time, Kosovo was all about nonviolent resistance, but then in 1999 it shifted to this armed struggle dominated by the KLA, and the non-violent resistance kind of like was subsumed by the violence that just escalated really, really quickly.

First in the rural areas and then in the urban areas, of Pristina. So yeah, so ultimately after all of that, after what happened in Kosovo, after what happened in East Timor, I got disillusioned with the whole non-violent resistance and by 2000, 2001 I was looking at other ways in which I could help solve international conflict and so I was looking at, well, could the US come up with humanitarian intervention? Could the US be a force for good in terms of like a moral cycle that there was, if you look at US foreign policy, that it goes through cycles of like a hero's journey?

So I looked at those things. And then in 2001, that's when I stumbled onto the whole ETXO politics. politics phenomenon and I got hooked really, really quick. You got hooked on May the 9th, 2001. Yeah. So the infamous, it's not infamous, the famous press club run by Dr. Greer. That's right. And boy, everybody was on there.

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Visit our link in bio. See the Bitcoin Disclosures at cash.com. slash legal slash podcast. Yeah, yeah. I was still teaching. I was a assistant professor. Yeah, I was teaching at American University. And I watched that press conference on video,

the video replay of that. And I listened to all. of those witnesses, the 21 witnesses Greer had on there. And because I'd done so much field work, you develop a sixth sense for when people are lying and telling the truth. And I could tell, these were people

telling the truth as best as they could reveal it. And they were scared. A lot of them were scared. Yes. I mean, some of the people were so frightened that they wouldn't even testify that Daniel Salter, for example, was one person that was supposed to testify.

But he didn't, because he was so frightened of what would happen to him. And I could see that. It was like when I interviewed that priest in East Timor that was frightened of what would happen when I left, I could see that same desire to tell the truth, but also the fear of the consequences for telling the truth in a lot of those witnesses. And I knew they were telling the truth. I knew it straight away. And it just rocked my world because here I am teaching international politics to graduate students at American University.

They were paying $30,000 a year. We're supposed to be giving these students the best education possible about what's really driving international conflict. And when I saw that press conference, I realized that there's a whole dimension that's being ignored here. We've got to look at all of this

to really understand the dynamics of international conflict. And so that's when my research just took a very different term. And at first, I was very naive. I thought that, well, university being a place of truth-telling and independent research or academic research, scholarship, and all of those fine things that people would support this. Of course they would.

They would have to support something revealing these hidden truths. But I found the opposite. Well, how did you broach that? How did you first broach that? you so you watch the press conference you're blown away like we all were you go to work and what knocking your boss's door and say I want to start bringing some of this into the curricula exactly that's what happened and you thought he'd be excited I thought he'd be supportive because he had been supportive in every other thing I'd done while at American University

well Kosovo is a whole different place than Darkfleet I mean this is very very new. I guess so. So did you leave that meeting, I guess, would have been a meeting just sort of disheartened? Well, it began in a very encouraging way. I was told that, okay, as long as I could do this in a way where I would not bring disrepute to the university and make it clear that this was my personal interest, that that would be okay. So that was the that was the agreement I had reached with the people in charge of the program I was involved in at the time at American University. But that changed when the Washington Post did a feature article on me February 2004. But before that article, you had the press club listed on your favorite links on your faculty page.

Right. I mean, you were rebelling against the institution already. Right, yeah. And I was talking to other faculty members and saying, this is what's going on. What do you think? And I was being told by other faculty members that, yeah, we think something like that's going on,

but we don't want to risk our careers. Of course. And so I found no support there. I did contact Stephen Greer back in 2001. And I got to meet him through an intermediary, and we agreed that I would host him at American University, that I would organize an event with Stephen Greer. So I booked the hall, and I was working out everything with Stephen Greer.

And then eventually the university or my boss learned that I was going to be doing this work and doing more related to this UFO field. And he said no. He said no. We don't want you to associate the university in any way with this. Just make it your own personal interest and keep it completely separate to your university activity. So I was told to just stay away from it,

not associate it with the university. You must have been aware of Dr. Mack and Harvard at that point about because what they did to him. That's right. Yes, I was aware. And at that time, I was very interested in meeting Dr. Matt. Yeah. Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

I didn't. Apparently, and this is anecdotal, I was told that he had a copy of my book on his desk and he was going to read it. And that would have led to us meeting at some point or talking at the very least. But then he gets mysteriously hit by a truck in England. In England. And he's gone? That's right.

Stepping off a curb. So that was very sad. So, yeah, those were difficult years from 2001 to 2004 when I was trying to keep a foot in the door of academia and do my best to bring this into the program. I was trying to introduce at American University, but the more I looked into it, the more real it became, the less I could ignore it, but the more resistance I found.

Of course. What were you supposed to be teaching, political science? I was supposed to be setting up a peace ambassador program. So in 2004, sorry, 2001 to 2001, I was supposed to set up a peace ambassador program, training people for how to promote peaceful resolution of conflicts around the world. And so that's what I was supposed to be doing. But as I'm doing research into that, I'm finding out that,

well, there's this whole level of suppression concerning UFO's extraterrestrial life. We need to talk about this. So let's bring this into the curriculum. Well, it makes sense because it's a first contact story. An ambassador for peace tracks with first contact, I would think. The skills are the same, yes? Exactly. It's like you're going to meet meeting with extraterrestrial visitors,

and you're going to somehow mediate a solution to the conflicts that exist between the off-world visitors and our planet. And, of course, there are many conflicts involving. that that's occurring. And so I wanted to start teaching that, but the university hierarchy that I was working through at the time didn't want anything to do with that.

And so I eventually was told that the program would end after this story came out in the Washington Post. Yeah. And they told you, I think by a phone call, you didn't even get at a courtesy meeting, get a phone call. I was threatened in that phone call. You were threatened by the university?

I was threatened by the deputy head of the center that I was studying in, that if the Washington Post put out an article and that it in any way portrayed the Center for Global Peace in an unfavorable light, then I would not have my position renewed and the program would be canceled. And I thought the story was very balanced when it did come out. Peter Carlson from the Washington Post. I didn't think he was being disrespectful. I don't think so either. He just brought up both sides. It wasn't a hit piece. Yeah, it didn't.

But the university said no, this is something that brings disrepute to us. Even positive coverage of that topic, they don't want. That's right. And that was another big shock to me, because I always assumed as an academic that when you have a major newspaper, a paper of the record like the Washington Post, covering your research, that's something to be celebrated. That's an achievement. Most academics would love something like that to happen

because your research is being recognized, many thousands, hundreds of thousands of people read about it. But that wasn't the case. It actually really torpedoed my university career at the time. And I really had no. future after that in university and I found that it wasn't just the university department, it was also peer-reviewed journals like I wrote a paper explaining the need for exo politics this new field that I thought had to be created for this discipline and this journal, the Journal

for Peace Research that I had actually published for previously. They had published one of my articles And I had actually been a peer review referee. Yes. So the editor knew me. He wouldn't even pass on my article to the reviewers. He said, no, this is not something we in any way are going to publish in the Journal for Peace Research. And that was my case for why this exopolitics research deserved to be studied. in peace research.

It's something I think most people don't know about you is that before all of this, you were published, you were very active in that community, you did go to these places, you did teach, you did do all of these things before that disclosure conference. Right, yeah, and I was being interviewed by major media. Sure.

The BBC would interview me regularly. I was on MSNBC at the time, media appearances, so I was getting that exposure because I was an expert on East Timor and Kosovo and those were very hot topics. But once this issue came up and I made that my focus then, but once the university career ended, then it became very hard to get any kind of mainstream media attention. Sure, in 2004, certainly.

I've heard you say that you think that you might have been set up with that article. Do you still feel that? I do wonder about that Like who would set you up The university Whoever it was was very very subtle Yes Because it wasn't a hit piece

It wasn't It was done in a way That was really Making my research known to a very wide audience And the condition for me Staying at the university Was that I needed to keep this

as a private interest and keep it separate to the university. And that worked as long as I wasn't known publicly. But once... But that you went on coast to coast, didn't you? Yes. George Norey on coast to coast. That's not flying under the radar to do coast, because I think you did that in 2003?

Yes, he had a young man. So you're still at AU then? I think you did The Edge, you did Mysteries of the Mind. These are radio shows. while you were still at AU. Did anyone at work come up to you and say, hey, I heard you're on New York the other night? Yeah, that's funny.

I never got any pushback for being on any of those shows. It was only the Washington Post, because that, I think, really got out there to a mainstream audience. Whereas I guess coast to coast, the edge, those other shows were kind of like a fringe audience. Coast had 10 million listeners. Did you ever get a chance to talk to art? No, I didn't.

Apparently, I was going to be interviewed by him. And Heather Wade was the producer at the time. And so she lined it up. I was going to be interviewed by Art. This was when he moved to midnight in the desert. Yes. And just before the interview, like a couple of weeks, a few weeks before. I know what's coming.

Art got threatened or his family got threatened. And he said, I'm not going to do this anymore. He retired again. Exactly. And he turned it over to Heather Wade. And Heather Wade's like, I can't do this. And he said, no. Art said, no, no, you can do it, you can do it.

And so I was then interviewed by Heather Wade rather than Art Bell, which I really would have loved to have been interviewed by Art Bell because I think he would have been a great interview. Yeah. He would have pushed me. Well, he came back to Sirius after midnight for a little while, and then he retired again, and I think that he went to YouTube to do Dark Matter and then retired again.

I forget. But I remember Heather Wade was saying he was really freaked out. that they were that they were threatening him and monitoring him and on his properties on his properties so yeah I think they were really frightened about I think just because he had this enormous outreach and a loyal audience and he could affect or get millions of people to get on board with whatever guest or whatever issue he was putting out this I think they had to shut him down I think so too. And sometimes I worry about that

because he is by far the biggest influence on me and what I do is Art Bell. His approach to these stories with curiosity and respect and never condescending. No matter how wild the story is, you never hear Art Bell call someone nuts or anything like that. He just lets them tell the story.

That's what I do. I don't believe most of the stories. I consider myself a skeptic, but I still enjoy them. And I think they should be told respectfully. Yeah, that's something I really liked about Art Bell, and yet it's unfortunate that I never got to do an interview with him. I would have really enjoyed that.

Yeah, I think we all would have enjoyed it. Okay. President Eisenhower. I love the story, and I've covered the dentist at the Palm Springs. He was at the Palm Springs. he disappears for a while. They say it's the dentist. I could not debunk this story.

I couldn't say what happened. It's 1954, I think. That's right. I couldn't, I don't know what happened, but you have some great theories on what happened to Eisenhower that day. Yeah, I did the research on President Eisenhower's meeting with the extraterrestrial ambassadors

at Edwards Air Force Base, and I did an article. Well, did you find, take us back to the, I mean, he's on the golf course or something, he gets ushered away. I think the Secret Service lost track of him for a while. Like for a full day, the president was, they didn't know where he was. He disappeared. He disappeared. Couldn't find out where he was.

And his personal secret service detachment did not know where he was. Were you able to find out like how he got out of there? I did. I did eventually. Because I found a whistleblower Bill Kirkland, who was a medic with the US Air Force, and he was stationed at Norton Air Force Base in 1954. And he was a medic, and he was called to the base in 1954 when President Eisenhower went missing that night. And he said that he saw Eisenhower arrive at.

Norton Air Force Base and then get on a plane to be taken to Edwards Air Force Base. Right, which is a pretty short flight. Exactly. And so he confirmed that Eisenhower had been taken to Edwards Air Force Base. And so that was confirmation when I came across Bill Kirkland's testimony. So this was after my initial research. Because at the time, I did the literature review. I found all these stories out there circulating out there.

I found there was one, there was a widow of a MP who confirmed to me that her husband was at Edwards Air Force Base and Eisenhower showed up. I've read her testimony. And he went to a hangar and there was the body, the remains and so forth. But Bill Kirkland, he was the one that really kind of like anchored it for me because he, He was able to confirm that, yes, Eisenhower did go there. Well, that's, his is an important testimony because that throws the dentist's story right out now. That's absolutely false because of Kirkland. Exactly.

So what did Eisenhower see there? And why do they feel the need to yank the president out of a vacation? Why was it so urgent, do you think? Well, the timing was very, very interesting because it was a, I think March 1st, which was going to be the test of the, I think it was the Bravo test, the thermonuclear weapon. And so the meeting at Edwards Air Force Base, that happened 10 days or just under 10 days, somewhere in that window before the Bravo test of the hydrogen bomb that was being launched

by the Eisenhower administration. that the previous test, I think it was called Ivy Mike, happened under the Truman administration, and that happened just before Eisenhower got elected. So it was locked him into the nuclear weapons program. Yes, that wasn't a hydrogen bomb, though, I don't think. The first one, 52, just before the 52 election, it was the very first thermonuclear weapon.

It was a test. under the Truman administration, which blocked the Eisenhower administration on a path. Because I think that what happened was that, you know, this is my understanding of the events, was that the people that were against the development of thermonuclear weapons knew that Eisenhower, because of his status, had the ability or the status to be able to say no to that. And so they decided that they would fast track it under Truman so that by the time Eisenhower was elected, it was a fait accompli that the United States was testing hydrogen bombs. So the first test under Truman was the tester of a device. So it wasn't an actual bomb.

But the 54 test that was scheduled to happen, I think it was March 4. first was scheduled to happen. That was the Bikini Atoll, the 15, what was it, 15 megatons. Yes. But it was actually 60 megatons. It was way more than they expected. Exactly. And so that's when aliens are like, okay, that enough. Now we have to get involved. Enough with this. And that gives a rationale for why Eisenhower was called to go to Edwards Air Force Base. a week or 10 days before the first test of a nuclear device at the Bikini atoll because the beings that would be influenced by that, the extraterrestrials, were really appealing to him not to go forward with this,

that this would be very, very dangerous. So this is a meeting that happens at the hangar at Edwards? It happened at Edwards Air Force Base, and there are many accounts, Ed Lane talked about that meeting and he talked about the group of wise men that were assembled along with Eisenhower to meet with, you know, they called them the Aetherians and they landed and that they had the meeting and there was this tremendous ontological shock suffered by all of the people that were there, the military people that saw what was going on.

But Eisenhower was surrounded by a national security team that were very much on board with nuclear weapons development. Absolutely they were. When he gave his military industrial complex speech, he got a lot of flack from his team over that. So what did the aliens look like in 54 to Ike? And what was the exchange they wanted to, what was the deal they offered? didn't they say, all right, you stop nuclear weapons and here's what will give you. What was the offer? And what did they look like?

Right. Well, according to Mead Lane and others that talked about the meeting, the appeal was to stop nuclear weapons, that these are very, very dangerous weapons and that if the United States went down that path of prescribing thermonuclear weapons, that they would help, the extraterrestrials would help with spiritual knowledge and help the situation get kind of more peaceful on planet Earth. Oh. And that just didn't appeal to Eisenhower's national security team. But Lockheed doesn't need that.

Raytheon doesn't need spiritual awakening. Right. They need airplanes. Well, there were a lot of scientists, prominent scientists. scientists, Oppenheimer, for example, that were opposed to nuclear fusion, or thermonuclear weapons. They were totally opposed to those weapons systems. So is Einstein, though, I think 40 or 50 of them signed that letter.

And this is where it gets very interesting because you have to ask yourself, well, of those prominent scientists that really tried to prevent the development of thermonuclear weapons, many of them have been linked with extraterrestrials. Oppenheimer and Eisenhower. So Oppenheimer and Einstein in particular were responsible for writing a research paper on establishing diplomatic relations with extraterrestrials. That's one of the majestic documents that have been released. Yes, that's right.

I have questions about those documents. Right. So that's one of the documents that's out there. But I believe that the scientists that were opposed to thermonuclear weapons, they were being influenced in some way by the extraterrestrials to take that very strong stance. What do the extraterraceals look like? Are these? Human-looking.

Are these the Nordics? These are the Nordics. These were the ones that look very much like us. and they were very different to the group that met with Eisenhower the following year at Holloman Air Force Base, which is not as well known that meeting, but it happened about a year later. And Bill Kirkland, again, turns out to be a key witness to this

because he was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base, so he released his DD-214, so I have a copy of that, and I have made that available. So you know where he, so you know he was there. He was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base. It was on his DD-214. And that was a landing, wasn't it? Another landing.

And this time it was a, he described three craft that arrived at Holloman Air Force Base. One of the craft landed, the other two hovered in the vicinity. There's video of this. That's where it gets very interesting because there apparently was another incident in 1964. And people get the two confused. It's that one. It's that one because it's, yeah. It's because it's color.

You're right. It's 64. Yeah, the 64 incident is a different one. Yes. Because the Bill Kirkland incident, he described that in 54, he was there. And there have been other witnesses who, Art Campbell did a lot of really pioneering research on finding some of the other witnesses that saw Eisenhower's plane land at Holman Air Force space. And so there was.

this landing at Holloman Eisenhower went to a large hangar where people were assembled airmen were assembled and gave some address and then he met with the extraterrestrials and they were described as grays

tall grays tall grays that's right a different group a different group to the ones that he met at Edwards Air Force Base because you would think the Nordics are probably easier to digest ontologically, right? Because they're more human-looking. They'd be the ones that probably people would not feel too shocked by being in the presence of. But the ones at Holloman, these were the tall grays. And some people connect them to the Germans.

So that's another aspect to that, Holloman Air Force Base. So that's going to be a really interesting historical question as we learn more of what really happened. But the 55 incident, I think, is one that was very important because that appears to be when agreements were reached. And there have been people that talked about the Grenada agreement. I mean, you're probably aware of Phil Schneider. I'm sure you actually did a show on Phil Schneider. I did. Phil Schneider, the underground base.

He's the Dulcey base. Right. Whistleblower. Exactly, yeah. So he's a very interesting witness right there. And he's another suicide. Yeah, six months after he came out. His suicides.

So I think that there is a very interesting sequence of meetings. And it's very interesting that there was a document that was released that was leaked. another alleged Majestic document, and this is based on a Defence Intelligence Agency briefing to an incoming member of the Majestic 12 group, which, and I did, well, the person who did the most research on this was Dr. Bob Wood, and he was the former MacDonald Douglas scientist, and he did the most research on that DIA document,

and he thought it was very authentic, and from what I found it was very authentic. And that document talked about a meeting, that document talked about the 1948 Aztec crash and that one of the surviving aliens that was human-looking, not very tall, was a guest of the Truman administration for a year and set up the foundation for future diplomatic agreements.

And that he, when he left, so we assume in 1949 he left, that the agreement was, a tentative agreement had been reached, and that was something that culminated in maybe the 1954 meeting at Holloman. But very interesting was that in that 1989 document, it talks about three extraterrestrial infants being left behind. to be raised by humans. And another interesting thing was that the extraterrestrial said that, well, we're going to have to do the same in the Soviet Union

because there's a reciprocity that we follow here. Yep. What do you think was negotiated at that 54 meeting? I think the 54 meeting was unsuccessful. I think... Another attempt to stop the nuclear weapons? Because the Soviets, I don't think, have tested yet in 50. I think the first was 57.

That's right, something like that. There was the Adams Per Peace Initiative that Eisenhower launched in 1953. And I think Eisenhower was being influenced by those groups. I mean, we know the scientists that were against thermonuclear weapons, and he was wanting to put all nuclear weapons research under the control of the United Nations and that the weapons would be prescribed and that nuclear energy would be used for peaceful purposes. That was the proposal, the Adams for Peace proposal,

but that came out at the same time as Joseph Stalin died. And so the new collective presidency of the Soviet Union were too frightened to go along with this, because each was afraid that, well, if they agreed with the Americans that others would look at them as betraying the Soviet Union or making the Soviet Union weak, that the Soviet Union had to develop its own nuclear weapons. And so they continued on their part of developing nuclear weapons. And so they ultimately ignored the Adams for peace. Yeah, I just covered the history of the Soviet UFO program, and it's intense and it's real. Going back to 45, I think, they started their program. So that's pre-Roswell. And they had their own crashes.

They had their own situation where they see a craft over a nuclear missile base and all the equipment shuts down, just like what happened with the Minuteman missiles, and I think it was 67 to us. That's what. The Soviets have a long history of... of UFO crashes and retrieval and studying the craft and trying to reverse engineer them

and I don't think they were as successful as the United States. No, I don't think so. For people listening you can look into Sokolov, George Knapp, went and talked to his Do I?

Orsokola. Yes. There's a lot of great information. You met him? I did. In Italy, very interesting guy. He wasn't very, supportive of my thesis

that Eisenhower had met with Exeterisian, he said, well, that's nonsense. And he had this very rough kind of like Russian approach. Like, oh, nonsense. No way that could have happened. We would know about it. It's like very interesting colonel. Yeah, he's, yeah,

I love his story. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and I have questions about telepathy. We have to jump around a little bit because I have to ask some of the questions of the audience. and Swansman ask, which, of course, I want to know. What do you make about, what do you think about the 1952 book,

1952 visit story, Strangers at the Pentagon? Remember that one? That's the Valiant 4 story, which I don't fully buy, but there's some stuff in that book that's interesting, and I think it happened to, that's the same year as the UFO flap over Washington. Frank Strangers? Yes. Stranger at the Pentagon.

Yeah, he's a very interesting guy. I actually went and visited him at his office, and we actually had him come out to Hawaii for a conference as well. Wow. What was he like? He was, you could feel something different about him. There was this very gentle, very highly evolved presence to him. So we knew that he was very genuine and very genuine.

very significant in some way. And he struck me as the sort of person that would be a contactee, that would meet with extraterrestrials. And that was something I could feel in him. His work was very hopeful. It was, he was a reverend, and he also had a background in law enforcement, which gave him a lot of legitimacy. But the paradox I had with him from the very get-go was that

I was sat in his office and he had a lot of certificates on his office wall, you know, PhD degrees and all of that. And, you know, being a PhD myself, I was very interested. So I took photos of some of these. And then I checked them out. Oh, no. I checked them out. And they were fake.

Oh, no. And that was the paradox. It was like, what the F is going on with this guy? I mean, he felt or things. and he had this incredible story, but he's displaying fake certificates. And the way I could reconcile it in my mind was that somehow he's pressured to do this.

Pressured from... That that was the condition for him to be able to do the work, to be able to reveal what's going on. And that is something that I had come across earlier on in my career that anyone, whether it is in this field of uphology or in any kind of conspiracy genre, if you are the real deal, you need to discredit yourself.

You need to have something in your past or something around you that can lead you to be easily discredited, otherwise you'll be killed or removed from the scene. And that was how I recognized. sold that. I thought, well, okay, this guy feels like the real deal. His story is amazing. And he's really got an impressive background, but he's got these fake university degrees on his wall. And it's like anyone that does basic, your basic due diligence will find out that these aren't real. So do you discount his story after learning that? Well, this is the key. It's like, you know,

do you throw the baby out with the bathwater? Right. And, and, and, My approach has been no. Okay. Look at that person. Look at what they have to offer and understand that, well, it's possible that this person has displayed fake degrees on his wall because he is doing so because that is a condition for him to be able to operate and talk about these human-looking extraterrestrials. And if you look at it from the perspective that this is one of the most tightly guarded secrets, the existence of these very highly spiritual, human-looking extraterrestrials, that have been interacting with us since Eisenhower and even earlier,

and that contactees from the very beginning, people like George Adamski, Howard Manger and so forth, were deliberately targeted, discredited, made to look like hoaxes and scammers and grifters, that that was part of the program to prevent these human-looking extraterrestrials being taken seriously. So here you have someone like Frank Strangers saying he met Valiant Thor at the Pentagon. And his crew. And his whole crew. And the crew and then had contacts with him over the years.

It's like, well, someone doing that would either be eliminated or if he is someone that does have a law enforcement background and is a reverend and someone that has very powerful protectors, that the agreement or the compromise was that, yes, you can talk about it, but you need to discredit yourself. And that right away, I mean, any researcher that looks at, at someone with a fake university degree hanging prominently on their wall. It's like, well, you're going to dismiss that guy and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Yeah. I have to be careful about that because I think I would have thrown it all the way. Maybe I need to rethink my approach. And looking into your work, it made me want to rethink my approach a little bit and be a little more open-minded. Yeah, I think there was this, as I recall, he was a chip Tatum, as I recall, was someone that was involved in the whole drug running scheme for the CIA. And he said the same thing that he had to discredit.

He was the one that introduced me to that idea that if you're the real deal, if you know this stuff, you need to discredit yourself publicly to stay alive. Why do you think human-looking extraterrestrials don't reveal themselves or have they? Well, they have revealed themselves to private citizens

and public authorities but it's never been announced to the world through the mass media because the people who control the mass media don't want that information getting out. Why not? It would give people hope. It would give people...

Of course. Spiritual knowledge that could detract from major religions. It would destabilize the current economic system whereby free energy... Free energy. ...something that would be real. Any gravity propulsion. It's real. It's real.

It would be real. holographic electromagnetic healing technologies are real so these are the things that threaten the whole status quo and the the elite the military industrial complex it's it's almost a joke answer when people ask me when disclosures is gonna happen I tell them when we've run out of oil is when it happens that's why there's no disclosure because of oil that's really all yeah what do you make of because it reminded me the 64 Holloman landing.

That's my favorite UFO video. That's my favorite one. And I've seen a lot of good ones, a lot of bad ones. That one I love. That landing is attached to the Project Serpo story. I don't know if you know that one. That's the exchange program between this alien planet and the United States military.

Do you think there's anything to that? That's another Richard Doty story. Right. Well, I know the 64 meeting at Holloman and Robert Emanega being given the film and being promised the whole film to then be released in a documentary which he produced, but then at the end they withdrew the film at the last moment

and apparently just a small piece of the film made its way in the documentary. So that's very interesting. Now, the connection to the Project Serpo, very interesting. I always looked at Project Serpo very suspiciously because Richard Doty, Robert Collins. All the aviary guys. Those guys were very, very tricky.

They were like trying to follow their arguments. And I knew Bill Ryan at the time. And he struck me as someone that was very credible. And he was very committed to the project's Serpo story and getting it out there and substantiating it. And I think Bill Ryan, a very competent person. So he thought there was something too,

but I always felt there was a significant amount of disinformation. I kind of kept away from it. Just my sixth sense kept away from that one, because I just felt this has too much of the whole military intelligence community's hands all over it. That was my take on it as well when I covered it. It just has too much of the lore wrapped into it. And when Dodey's involved, suddenly it just gets really, really, really messy.

Do, what do you make of him? So he's Air Force intelligence, he does disinformation for a living, basically destroys Bill Moore's career, and now says most of what he said was true, the things he said to Linda Muldenhow were true, the things he said

to Benowitz were true. I think the things he said to Benowitz were substantially true, and that Benowitz did take photos or did intercept the electronic communications of whether they were extraterrestrials, whether they were part of a highly classified program out of Kirtland Air Force Base, that Benowitz was onto something.

And I suspect that what happened was that Doty was his job was to feed Benowitz, certain amount of disinformation or steer him in a certain direction that would exaggerate something that he already knew that, and this is the classic case of, well, you know, Benowitz, for example, Doty, sorry, Benowitz would find or in his communications, he would come up with a translation that, well, there's these great extraterrestrials at Dolsey Underground base that are conducting human experiments and there are fire fights and all of these things. Well, Doty would take that information and exaggerate it. I mean, that's classic how this information works.

Classic counterintel. Exactly. You exaggerate it and so you get the exaggerated version to be believed by the target and that target then kind of gets subtly steered away from. the substance of what they discovered. So, you know, and Paul Benowitz wrote, not Paul Benowitz, Paul Bishop wrote that book, Project Beta. And he totally dismissed Paul Benowitz and said,

well, everything that Benowitz said was a product of Doty's disinformation. I wrote an extended critique of that book, Project Beater, and I disagreed with a bishop in that. I thought that there was substantial truth in what Benowitz had found and it matched what others were saying about this underground facility at Dulce and that there were underground projects being conducted there, that there were witnesses that had emerged from those projects that talked about biological experiments and humans being kept in cages. and that they were being horribly abused.

That is one of the more unsavory aspects of the whole exopolitics field, that there are these humans that have been captured, and maybe they've just taken off the streets, street kids or people that are homeless, that are then taken into these underground facilities, and no one misses them on the surface, and they're just caged and used in biological experiments. And I suspect Benowitz had stumbled onto some of that and was putting out some of that information.

But Dodie's job was to discredit him, and I think he did a really good job. He certainly did, and I think he's still on the job. You know, you talk about abductees. There is that part of the lore where a deal was made that aliens would be allowed to abduct American citizens in exchange for technology or whatever the story. is. Do you think a deal was made or do you think they're just snatching people?

Oh, definitely a deal was made. A deal was made. I think that that's what happened at that meeting in 1955 at Holloman. Deals were made. I mean, these were, Bill Schneider described it as the Greata Treaty and began talking about the agreement of a certain... number of humans were supposedly going to be abducted by the great aliens, but that turned out to be a lot more than the greys had agreed to. And that all kind of comes down to details, right? If you agree in principle that, yeah, you can abduct our people, just keep us informed. Well, they'll take that acceptance of the principle as, well, now it's just a detail, whether we abduct 100 or whether we

abduct 100,000. I mean, it's just the detail, right? You've agreed that we can do this. And so this is what the Grays did. And I think that that would actually be a way in which a very sophisticated galactic entity would operate with a very

kind of new, innocent, naive race that you would come up with these agreements where You get them to agree to a principle. And then once you've got them to agree to the principle, then you implement it in the way you want. What are you going to do about it? Exactly.

What are you going to do? They've abducted 100,000 rather than 100. Right. What did they give in exchange? Did they give technology? There have been a lot of witnesses and whistleblowers that talk about seeing grays at these facilities. I mean, Bill Ewhouse talked about it. Even Bob Lazar says he got a fleeting image of a gray.

Clifford Stone says he was taken to an underground facility at the Pentagon and he saw a gray. Pat Price remote viewed Mount Hayes and saw grays in there with the military. Right. So there are many whistleblowers who have talked about these grays that are assisting the U.S. military in some of these programs. And I think Bill U-House's description of the Gray helping the U.S. Air Force understand how the technology worked, how to reverse engineer it. I mean, he said that Bill U-house, former U.S. Air Force,

that worked as a contractor. I think he was an electrical engineer by training, and he said that they were setting up a simulation device for training future Air Force pilots how to fly these reverse engineered craft that they were working on. And so he said that whenever they struck a problem, they would bring it up the next time there would be a meeting with one of these greys that would come in and they would answer the questions, answer questions about technical questions, how to reverse engineer this stuff,

how to get a flight simulator to work for a pilot being trained to fly one of these reverse-engineered craft. That was Bill Youhaus's job. So there are many good examples. And Bill Ewhouse is a very credible witness, military witness, that this was going on. Do you think deals were made with China, Russia, and other countries as well? I'd say that was definitely the case.

You think so? I mean, because how you've got the Nordics who wanted to keep parity between the superpowers, but then there's no Soviet Union anymore. Are they giving the technology to other countries? I think that would have been one of the ways that the grays, the reptilians, insectoids, would have operated. I mean, I've interviewed a very prominent Russian researcher, Anton Anvlov, PhD. He studied Russia's secret space program, history of crashed UFO craft. And he said that early on the Russians found that there was a group of insectoids, the praying mantas, that had crashed.

and that they made contact and they had made deals and they began working with them. So the Russians were working with this group of insectoid. But what was interesting was that he said that what the Russians found was that these insectoids were indigenous to the earth,

that they weren't off-world visitors. They were indigenous culture going back many hundreds of thousands of years that had spacecraft or craft that were capable of flying off into space, but they were coming from the inner earth. Wow. I've heard similar stories about the reptilians that they're from the earth.

Exactly. And that's where it gets complicated. It does. Because you have reptilians that are indigenous to earth that are to a certain extent sympathetic to surface humanity. But then you have this off-world group that people identify as draconian reptilians, who are totally imperialistic and totally about control and manipulation and recruiting humanity as a mercenary force to conquer other worlds in other star systems

and doing it in a way that could not be stopped by other worlds that were maybe better organized in terms of collectives like a Galactic Federation or something like that. So if, for example, you have humanity being exploited by these Dracal reptilians, whereby human mercenaries were being recruited and flying off into space to join the Dracal reptilians in the conquest of human populated worlds, that could be done in a way where the other organize the human organizations, the Galactic Federation of worlds or whatever the organization is, would have to kind of like step aside and say, well, strictly speaking, this is a human-on-human conflict, right?

Right. Because the human mercenaries from Earth are just being used as a proxy by the Dracal reptilians, but they still are humans from Earth, and they are like, we are conquering this other planet as part of our organization. And some people call that the Dark Fleet, the Mark Wafton, and I think that's very plausible. I think so too. But how do we get, because people are listening,

and we can talk about craft and everything we talked about up until now, just about everybody's on board with. But once you go into the Dracos, the Mantids, the Nordics, people get off the bus. I don't know how we keep them off. on the bus. I don't know how we keep that conversation going. I'm not asking for evidence. I'm just saying, what do we say to the people? How do you keep people more open-minded to new species?

Well, we've got the witnesses, the contactees that have been talking about this for decades. But what's recently changed is that now you've had prominent scientists coming forward. Eric Davis, Hal Putoff, Congressman Eric Billerson, Burchett, repeating that where we know are four extraterrestrial civilizations visiting our world. David Grush just talked about the Nordics. And there you have David Grush talking about Nordic cadaveras that were recovered at these crash sites that look beautiful and look like gods, like Greek gods. He's talking about reptilians who survived these crashes going on a killing spree and they having to be killed by US Special Forces. I never heard that going on a killing spree.

Well, that they survived the crash and that they were killing humans. So that was what, now maybe this is a incorrect rendition of what Grush said. I mean, I just heard the interview once. Right. And I put out a short segment of that interview where he talked about the reptilians that had been, that had survived these crashes, but they were apparently fighting and they were killing humans.

And he talked about the reptilians fighting the grays. Yes. So maybe there was some, maybe that was not something I got correct from the, David Grush interview. But the fact that is that Grushkin was saying that from what he was told in these classified meetings from people in the know, so arguably this is secondhand information, but Grush is now accepted as a very reliable witness. That's why hearing him say Nordics was shocking to me. And I don't trust the whistleblowers. I'm very open about that from military

intelligence, I don't trust them. I want to believe them, but I don't trust them. So when he said Nordics, that is, that was a big move, I think. That was a very big move because now you're getting into the conspiracy theory world where all the skeptics are constantly attacking people like us, even just for discussing the stories. and now if the Nordics are real, then you have to be open to all the other races.

John Lear said that they were 70. I think John Lear is someone who's very underestimated in the UFO community. He used a contact T, I believe. I don't think he knew it. I came across his information and it matched with all of my other sources. But the really weird thing was he had this CIA. connection. So I always kind of felt he was doing something with the information to make it look a little kooky, a little way out there. He would say things that I always found to be a little

off-putting. So I thought he was credible with some of his information, but yet again, it was like, well, is this a case of someone who's in the know and having to discredit himself? Bill, was another one who was like that. Yes. He had an impeccable Navy pedigree, and he put out a lot of information, and he talked about the 1954 meeting and the subsequent meeting,

and he put out a lot of very interesting information, but then he would do things that would appear to discredit himself. He absolutely did. He would say wild things on the radio that would make him sound like a nut, and yet he correctly predicts 9-11, He predicted his own death. He ends up in his

dies in a shootout in his front yard with the police. William Cooper, behold a pale horse. So it's the same thing with all of these guys is there's always a fake diploma on the wall,

so we don't know what's real. And that's why I take the approach that this is, exo politics is intelligence gathering. It's not science. It's not like a scientific experiment where if the data is inconsistent with your hypothesis,

well, it's a failed experiment, you throw it out and you start again. While intelligence gathering is different, you're trying to find out, well, who are these beings that are visiting us? What are their motivations? What do we know? Well, these people claim to have met them. You've got military whistleblowers saying that they saw them in these classified programs. How credible are they?

So to my mind, this is an intelligence gathering exercise, and what you do is you assign levels of confidence. Well, I have a high degree of confidence that someone like David Grush's information is very, very credible, that someone else like Phil Schneider, who died six months after, he revealed these things. I think that information is very, very credible. Someone like John Lear, I would give him a medium level of confidence

and Richard Doty are low, but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater because at the end of the day, your intelligence gathering, and you've got to look at all the data, and you've got to assign a numerical value to that in terms of the level of confidence you have, and then you can come up with some opinion,

and that's how you do intelligence gathering, and that's more in line with political science. Yes. Because you don't have absolute certainty, with a person's testimony, you have a high degree of confidence in that person maybe, but you assign a level of confidence, and you go with that. And if something happens, I mean, I've worked with quite a few whistleblowers and contactees

that I thought were really credible, and then things happened, and then I have to walk away from them and dismiss. them or maybe not dismiss them, but now I don't no longer have that high level of confidence in their testimony that I once did. Well, I want to ask you about that. So let's say you're supporting a whistleblower, contact D, you support their story, and then it turns out that it's not true. What do you do with that information?

Do you retract? Do we throw it away? Well, there's a good example. In 2008, there was this lieutenant commander for the U.S. West Navy, Richard Tillman. And initially I began reporting on him as Source A, and he talked about these classified meetings that were happening at the United Nations that were trying to work out how to reveal the existence of extraterrestrials.

And so I met him in person in New York, and he had his, a thick manual with him, a photo album showing all his photos of his Navy career as a fighter pilot. So you saw the jets and you saw his military credentials. He was wearing a full Navy uniform. He went to the Naval Warfare Station in Patuk, in Virginia, and he met Dr. Matabe, who was working on a classified program. So he went onto the base, on his own, met Maccabee at this highly classified. So he was undoubtedly serving with the US Navy. Yes. But he's told me and he told the people I was working with at the time. He said, if I ever get outed, I'm going to deny everything. Just so you know, I never thought he would really do that. How could you deny everything? How could you put out

all this information and then deny it all and say you made it up? He got out. He got identified. So rather than being source A, he then gets identified, I think it was 2009. He got identified as Richard Tillman, Lieutenant Commander, U.S. Navy. And so he denied it all. He went out and denied it. He said, none of it is true. So now what do we do with that information?

Exactly, exactly. And this is again, do you throw out the? baby with the bathwater. I just wrote an article clarifying what happened. And I said, he has denied it all now, but he told us back when he first revealed the information that if he ever got outed, he would be forced to deny it all. And that's exactly what he did. And so I said, well, I think that these meetings really did happen, but he's denied it all now, So I just have to walk away from it. But there were others, like there was a French researcher, Gil Laurent,

who also confirmed from his French intelligence sources that the United Nations were having these meetings in 2008 to strategize how to reveal the existence of extraterrestrial life. But that's not confirmation. And so that whole enterprise had to be, I had to walk away from that. And people were saying, well, we told you, Tillman, we told you, Saucay was a fake. But to this day, I don't believe he was a fake.

I think he really was Navy. But he had to deny what he had revealed. I guess that was the condition under which he first could come forward. Maybe his commander said, reveal this information as long as you're not publicly identified and if you are walk away from it deny it or else what he could be eliminated um you've recently started naming jp he up on what's roe hip up on so we've been hearing about jppc for years and now we know who he is he has a website um his military record checks out water purification

I think he worked at Elgus, August AFB? Egglin Air Force Base. Egglin AFV, okay. So that's, I think the 9-6 test wing is there. Lots of high-tech stuff goes on there. Has he been contacted by the military? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was, well,

he has a long history in terms of being contacted by the military going back to 2008, when he first had an experience with these human-looking extraterrestrials in Brazil. He came to the United States, came back to the United States, his home. He lived at Tampa near McDill Air Force Base at the time. And he was approached pretty soon after he got back and they wanted to know who he met, what he was told, what technologies he was working on because he all of a sudden went from just being a musician, someone that would work on pools.

That was how he supported himself as a musician, that he all of a sudden starts getting downloads for building these new technologies. And so he starts getting monitored. And so over the years, he gets military people befriending him. Like, we're your friend. Tell us what's going on. Right.

And in 2017, he starts sending me photos. of craft he's seeing near MacDill Air Force Base, flying triangle craft, rectangle-shaped craft. He's sending me these photos. And he was being encouraged to take those photos by people within the US Air Force. Yes. Covert operatives. Yes, I believe that. And he remembers actually, sometimes he remembers being on these craft. And one craft in particular, That was a flying rectangle. He took a photo of it after being encouraged to take the photo of this flying rectangle craft. And later on, he remembered being on the craft.

And he remembered seeing the insignia of the patch of Air Force Special Operations. So this is a military test craft. That was a craft that was operational. It wasn't a test craft. Right. I mean, did humans build that? Oh, yeah, totally. So that's reverse engineered from, so that's anti-gravity, that's zero-point energy, that's the whole deal. That's right.

So he's revealing this in 2017, in 2017, and photos, giving me photos, and I'm putting them out. They start getting circulated. The Tampa Times did an article on that, so they're starting to get circulated. And this is all coming out of McDill Air Force space. Well, it just so happens that McDill Air Force space gets hit by Hurricane Irma a month after JP starts revealing, sharing these photos with the Hurricane Irma. Okay, what is Hurricane Irma? Well, Irma is the German name for a war goddess.

Yeah. And allegedly, there's a directed energy weapon out of Antarctica, that was steering this hurricane to MacDill Air Force Base. What do you think? I wrote about it at the time. I know. I think that it was payback. It was like the deep state, this German breakaway element,

did not like this covert branch of the U.S. Air Force revealing the existence of these anti-gravity technologies. I thought hurricanes were named in advance at the beginning of the season. Could it be a coincidence? You could say that it was a coincidence? Or you could have just waited for H and said now an hour ago? It could have been. So what about the harp then? Harp is a weird one for me.

Being on the skeptical side, that project doesn't make any sense because it's this very small facility that got like a half a billion dollar budget and nobody knows where the money went. Well, Nick Begge wrote that really great book where Angels Don't Make This Heart, or something like that. I can't look at the exact title. And he did really great research,

and I think he worked with a female research of Manning. I can't quite remember her full name, but he identified how that heart facility was this directed energy weapons array that could be used for weather modification purposes and crowd control and doing all sorts of nefarious things. So he was saying that that was what the heart facility

out of Alaska was being used for. And so apparently there were a number of these heart facilities all over the United States. And people who have done research on hurricanes and how they form, they often find a high level of activity of these heart facilities around the time hurricanes are formed and steered. And there's a physics behind this that you could heat up the ionosphere

in a way that would steer a hurricane in a particular direction. So I do believe that these kinds of directed energy weapons, half facilities can be used to steer hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, whatever, in a particular direction. So if you have a country or you have a particular state in the United States, being troublesome or an Air Force facility, facility, doing things that you don't like. You just hit them with a hurricane, and that'll, you know, you send a message that way.

That'll teach him. Yeah. Well, as far as JP is concerned, and the connection to Eglon Air Force Base, if I finish up. So, in, after 2017, we get the information now, Hurricane Irma, it hits, he keeps on putting out photos of the craft, he's seeing now he's moved to Orlando, he's taking photos,

but he's getting pressured. He's getting pressured all the time. And one of the things that was very clear was that on the one hand, he had people that were Air Force operatives that were telling him, you know, take the photo and go here. And there were also these Nordic-lookers,

extraterrestrials that were also summoning him to different places and they would allow him to take photos of their craft and they were flying saucer craft and so that was something he did as well he was taking photos of the Nordic spacecraft that he was witnessing why do they want that I mean I know the Air Force wants him to do it so he could be discredited but why would the Nordics allow that what do they want they want him or they want wanted him to take these photos to prove or to show that the Nordics are very real, that they're visiting us. So he took photos of their craft, one of the craft landed. He was offered a ride. He met face-to-face with the Nordic. He was offered a ride. He said when he was meeting with the

Nordic, he had his camera on him, but it didn't work. Right. Right. But once the Nordic got on the craft and left, then his camera worked. So he took photos of the craft. And he also took photos of a craft where he said he saw two Nordics that you could see through the cockpit. So that's one of the... But its resolution is not very good, so you really can't make it out. But that's interesting.

But what I find very significant was that... So he's having these encounters. He's being encouraged by Air Force operatives to take photos. Then he's told, and there were two incidents, where he was taken by Air Force operatives to a location. And the Air Force operatives dropped him off and said, go down there and take a look at that facility and what's happening there. And he goes there and some more senior officer looks at him

and says, why are you here? Why are the F are you here? You shouldn't be here. You're a civilian. F off. And J.P. said he had to go. He couldn't do it. And this happened twice to him.

And the FL operatives said, well, look, as long as you're a civilian, you're going to be denied access to certain things that we want you to see, and we want you to talk about it. So you need to join the military. And if you join the military, you'll be protected as well

from these other people that don't want you to reveal this information. So he joined the army in, in the 2019, he joins the army. He joins, his MOS is a 91J, which is, you know, water repair and all that. But he's given training as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, he's given put through a paratrooper training. He gets a red beret. He's then stationed with this elite army unit, seventh special forces group at Eglon Air Force Base, which is an elite unit.

I mean, these guys are the Army's special forces guys that go all over the world as part of special operations command to do all these classified missions. So these are special forces guys. Why would... Because JP, he didn't go through Ranger school or anything, right? He just did paratrooper training. That's it.

He got a jump batch. Exactly, exactly. So he gets the red beret. Right. But he's not a green beret. No, no. Right. So that's clear.

So why is he on these missions with these elite forces? So he gets assigned to Eglin Air Force Base. His regular job is working to repair water systems and so forth. He gets text messages saying, show up at this place, and he shows up at that place. and there are covert operatives there that say, you've got to come with us on this mission. So then he goes off on this mission. So he does the mission,

comes back, and then he goes back to his regular job. And his regular commander doesn't know anything about what he's doing. He doesn't? He doesn't know. So these missions are like four hours, six hours, ten hours. But they're relatively short. So when he comes back,

he just does his normal. assignment. So this goes on for four, four and a half years. Well, who's directing these assignments? Who is he getting his orders from, if not his CO? There's someone. Yes. In the covert military that is assigning him to these missions. Now, JP has a handler in the military. He's never identified who that handler is to me. He's just hinted at the rank of that officer. But I can only guess. He's shown me where he meets him at Eagland Air Force Base, so he did take me to that area.

But apparently this is the guy that is coordinating the missions. So he's a senior Air Force officer retired, and apparently now he's working out of Washington, D.C. after being stationed or being in some capacity, retired capacity at Eglon Air Force Base. What is special about Jorge that he's chosen for this? I think he's someone that has this unique energy. He's a very sweet guy, some would say, very innocent, very gullible.

But also there's a wisdom there. There's a knowledge there that it's like he knows things. He knows things. Like he has this intuitive knowledge of technology. of technologies or certain technologies. He knows how things works. And that's something that's come up again and again in what he's described,

that he's put in these places and he has an interaction with the technology, that the technology is alive or sentient in some way. And this is very typical of extraterrestrial technologies or ancient technologies, that they're not like our technology. It's like this ship has a living consciousness. It interacts with people.

And so Jorge, JP, often interacts with that technology. He feels it. He knows how it works. He's very intuitive. And he's gifted in learning how the technology works. And sometimes he's trained in, in that. And one of the, this is one of the crazier missions. It's like he says that he was given weapons training. He was, he went on a mission. He was with other operatives and he went on a mission

and he went to a facility and there was this very old feline looking being. Wow. Okay. And this feline looking being gave each of the operatives this ring. a ring and they put on the ring and depending on how they manipulated the ring it would shoot off an energy beam that could destroy objects at a distance so he was doing this weapons training well for what why would he need that kind of training that kind of weapon yeah that's that's an interesting question i mean i i didn't quite understand why he was exposed to that because the missions he's done have been rather benign. He never describes being in battles

apart from some more recent missions is described being in battles. But he's put through this weapons training and so what I think is that he's just being given exposure to a whole range of classified programs to reveal them to the world in a way that's

totally deniable, plausible deniability. That's why these photos are allowed to come out? They're very easy to discredit because they do show an object, but they're not very clear and they're not high resolution at all. They're not, nothing you can say that's conclusive. Never. But there's enough of them to think, well, there's something going on here. This guy is being exposed to something.

Well, I've heard that there's an internal battle in I guess it would be the Pentagon or whatever exists in the trillions of dollars of missing money that there is a faction that wants disclosure and there's a faction that definitely doesn't and they are at odds. Have you heard the same thing? And that's been just substantiated recently.

I mean, you had both Tim Burchard and I think it was Billerson that just came forward and said that Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff, was told that, well, actually he revealed that there were very bad people blocking disclosure, that the Trump administration and Miller

are trying to put out the information, but that there are very bad people that are blocking disclosure. Well, very bad. What does that mean? What does that mean? People that are very powerful that can make threats

even against high-level public officials. Is it more powerful than the president of the United States? That even the president of the United States has to deal with these people that is stopping his administration. Now, Bichette, Bellison, and a Pullina Luna have all come forward and said that they've spoken with either President Trump

or his administration official. and they all say that Trump is familiar with the issue and he's totally committed to disclosure. And I think that that's what Trump is doing, that he's part of this White Hat initiative to get the information out there. But that there's this other faction, the legacy UFO crowd, whatever you want to call them, Deep State, that are totally opposed, that want to slow it down or prevent it. And so we're having that struggle playing out in real time. Why, on the one hand, you have these six vile dumps by the Pentagon, which is very much the low-hanging fruit. Yes, it is.

What it does is it legitimizes the UFO field, it makes it real, but then when people dig in, it's like this is a big nothing burden. There's nothing here. Yeah, exactly. But it's preparing people, it's acclimating people for the real. really big stuff. And I think that's where JP comes in, because I think JP's time will come where his information will suddenly be validated. And we're already having that. I mean, David Grush is saying these beautiful, Nordic-looking beings and being found.

You can't undersell how big of a bomb that is to drop. That is the biggest bomb. That's a bigger bomb than him sitting in Congress. Once he said the word Nordic, I went, oh my goodness, it's happening. It's happening. Exactly. The Nordic extraterrestrials have been visiting us.

Some of their craft have either crashed or being wrought down and the bodies have been retrieved and David Grush says he saw one of the photographs of this. So there's a very famous incident going back to 1978

Sir Eric Gary was the Prime Minister of Grenada at the time and what he revealed in a conversation with another UFO

researcher at the time was that a Nordic extraterrestrial in a tight-fitting suit the body was found on a beach in Grenada with the some of the debris

from the craft so this was Eric Gary talked about Eric Gary talked about this in 1978 he said this happened in 77 78 that this Nordic washed up on the beach

and that Eric Gary got his people to get the body and put it into a medical facility that was run that I think had American medical students there.

And then Eric Gary put together this United Nations initiative to set up a agency to study the UFO phenomenon. And he eventually succeeded in getting the United Nations to pass a resolution. He did? I don't know. How do I not know this story? Yeah.

Yeah. I think it was UN decision 246 or 247. Well, this makes the Carter statements a lot more valid now because this is happening during Carter's administration. That's right, that's right. And so Eric Gary got the United Nations to convene meetings where they got prominent UFO researchers, so Jay Allen Hynek, and I think even Jacques Valle was part of that,

and other prominent researchers went to the United Nations, and they talked about the need to set up a UN watchdog or UN organization to monitor UFO. reports. So what happened after that was that Britain did a very British thing, British intelligence, you know, they work with the Americans to nullify this resolution. So rather than it being adopted by the General Assembly as a resolution, which would be something that would stand in time as a United Nations General Assembly resolution, it was passed as a decision. rather than a resolution.

So the difference is that a resolution deals with policy and something that the United Nations will adhere to and pursue, whereas the decision is more like, well, if you're, if you've been serving with the United Nations for 10 years, you deserve this amount of pay

as opposed to that amount of pay, more an administrative thing. So that's how they were able to bury it. But it's still there. It's still there. It's an official United Nations decision. But the thing, is Eric Gary was a threat. And so what happened was that then you had a coup.

Yes, you did. So Eric Gary is visiting the United States and there's a coup. He's removed from power. That's 1980, right? That's right. And he's removed from power. There was a socialist revolution. He's removed from power. And then, I think it was two years later, you had the United States invasion of Grenada and they went to that medical. center where according to my source who interviewed or talked with Eric Gary that's where the Nordic

exotrestral body was being stored it's not there anymore but that whole Grenada situation and Eric Gary's sponsorship of the United Nations resolution was all sparked by his discovery of this Nordic extraterrestrial body

on a beach and Grenada in what was around 1977 I wrote about that, well, I guess 15 years ago, but the details are all there. Because Grenada was very strange to Americans. Like, why are we going in there? Because you could take over Grenada in an afternoon with a few Marines. I mean, it's like, what are we doing down here? Americans just walked in and said, this is ours now.

And it's like, okay, that's why. And the justification was they had to rescue, what was it, 200 men? medical students at this facility. The same facility that Eric Gary said this Nordic extraterrestrial body was being stored. It's like, okay, well, go figure. Do you think that the deep state who's blocking, is that military industrial complex or is that the older bloodlines? Older bloodlines. I didn't think you were going to say that.

So Lockheed is not the enemy. Yeah, I think a lot of these corporations. would probably like to have disclosure because they have the proprietary rights over this information. They have these IRADs, independent research and development contracts, non-competitive contracts that they've gotten. So they've been studying these contracts for years and years. And they wanted, they would like to be able to release these technologies and make thousands of fighter craft using anti-gravity propulsion

and is a good example of this. I think it was Paul LaVier Lett wrote a book about the Boeing aircraft company asking for permission to release some of the anti-gravity technology that they knew about because they had gained control over the old MacDonald Douglas files that go back to Douglas Aircraft Company and all of the things they were doing for the Navy

which has a rich rich history and so the Boeing Corporation had all those files they have the repositories the archives of the extraterrestrial technologies that have been recovered the propulsion systems that they've been being able to build those they asked for permission

from some group to be able to release these in future civilian aircraft that would be using to some extent anti-gravity propulsion systems but they were denied and so I think a lot of these corporations

Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop Grumman they would love to release this technology but they're being blocked by someone more powerful that it makes it. I was, out of sense because imagine if you are the company that can build the craft where you can fly to Europe in 10 minutes.

And you've got proprietary control over all that technology. Right. You can just go. You got the IRAs. No one else has that because you've got the retrieved debris from these extraterrestrial craft. You've been studying it for 20, 30, 40 years. New companies like SpaceX. Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic.

They don't have that. How can they compete? They don't have that. But that's the end of the petrodollar, right? So someone more powerful is telling these corporations you can't release this technology. And that takes us to the bloodline ruling families. What is the leverage that they have that they're able to use the power?

What gives them their power? Well, these bloodline ruling families, I mean, they have enormous financial resources. So it's money. They control the board of directors of many of these corporations. They can influence the direction of that company, and they can say, no, this technology is too disruptive. We don't want you to release it.

And I think a lot of people don't know that all the major countries central national banks report to a senior bank, the IMF and the Federal Reserve, I'll report to a senior bank that meets in secret once a year. I don't even think we know the board. It's very secret. I'm good to do an episode about it.

But that's an organization that can pull the lever on $200 trillion at a time. Right? So that's a lot of power. Exactly. If you control the financial power, and you control the board of directors through shares.

If you're one of these ruling bloodline families, you have others from those bloodline families that get together. We're talking Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Medici, all of these very powerful families. And they get together and they say, well, this technology is not something we're going to allow to be released for X number of years. and the people that run the corporations that have developed some of those craft,

they can't release those publicly. I mean, maybe they're given limited orders to build some of those craft for the bloodline families, for some intelligence communities. I mean, that's, I think, what Mark McCandlish revealed. I mean, he was told by Brad Sorensen. about these three craft that were on display. Yep, that's the ARV. Exactly, the ARV craft.

Another suicide. The flux liner. The flux liner. And another suicide. Exactly, Mark McCandlish. Right. And so, and those three craft, a limited number were made. They were fully operational craft.

A limited number were made by someone, maybe skunk, works, made those craft, and there would have been customers because that was an air show or a classified air show. So someone would, but who would have been the customers? Someone are representative of the Medici or the Rothschilds. That's the customers, you think? Yeah, I think that's, those are the kind of customers we're talking about. The people who could go to a classified air show like that, you know, and we're talking about

ruling bloodline families. We're talking about some organisations such as say the NRO, the CIA Air Force special operations that could go there and say, yeah, we want three of those, we want five of those, yeah, I'll take one of those. But you have limited orders. And that's the way it's done at the moment. I think that there's this parallel world

of technologies that have been built on a limited basis by these legacy aerospace corporations that have irads and the border directors are controlled by these ruling bloodline families and they say you can build a limited number of these craft for these customers but that's it but that's it that's it well you're a hawaii guy do you remember when daniel annoye was talking about the secret they have their own military they have their own this or that was he talking about the families totally I think that's exactly what I was talking about. And I hats off to Stephen Greer.

I mean, I think he's done fabulous research over the years. And Prince Hans Adam of Lichtenstone is a member of these ruling families. And of course, Lawrence Rockefeller was the kind of white hat among one of these ruling families, wanting to get the information out. But I think Greer is absolutely correct that these ruling... families are the ones that decide how much of this information or how much of this technology can be released and when. And why they do it? They are black magicians or dark magicians, if you like. They understand that real power comes from being able to control millions of people

through your control of the mass media, through your control of the economy, getting people to think in a certain way, getting policies passed by members of Congress who you influence the control through financial contributions and so forth, and you can control humanity in that way. You get them to think in a certain way.

And because they're real fear, these ruling bloodline families are people that want to reveal that we have within us this infinite creative potential that we can manifest an incredible world of abundance and beauty

and all we have to do is think it at a collective level. That's all we have to do, think it. But instead, what does Hollywood do? it produces nightmares. That's right. These dystopian societies where after disclosure, you have humans fighting out out to seek out a living

in a mad-nex society where there are these dark extraterrestrial entities that are trying to exterminate us. So, like, how, you don't get movies that, kind of like the last mimsy is a good example. movies like that Imagine instead of Exterminator and Independence Day you have

dozens of Hollywood blockbusters that are based on something like the Last Mimsy where you have this inherent power within to manifest a beautiful world The ruling bloodline Families don't want that No So they prevent it

And that's why they're fighting tooth and nail to prevent disclosure. Well, don't the races, the extraterrestrial races or terrestrial races that built those vehicles, the technology, don't they have a say in it? Don't they... Why do they have to report to the families?

The Nordics could just say, here we are. We don't care about those families. But of course, the Nordics understand that public perception would be swayed by those that control the mass media and the political class. And if the Nordics show up with the most benign intentions, what you would have instead is the mass media

and the political class saying, no, they're not beautiful-looking humans. This is a takeover attempt by the reptilians who are impersonating humans. Think V. Think V. You know, the series V. They're reptilians in disguise.

Don't believe them. And the Nordics understand this. They understand that if they tried to preempt this or tried to reveal themselves, the narrative would be switched from what would truthfully be happening to this lie that, no, it's reptilians in disguise that are here to take over our world and eat us. That's probably what would happen. And then you've got humans attacking these. That's probably what would happen.

And they do have that kind of power. And I think that's why there's such a powerful battle being fought right now and why the Trump administration is at the center of that and why the creation of space force is so important because it was something that the deep state tried to prevent. It was it? I've heard you say that after Brookings, we needed space force to be formed before disclosure because you don't want disclosure before you have a way to defend against it if it's an

threat. That makes sense to me. Right. There was something called the Space Commission that was set up by the Clinton administration and Donald Rumsfeld was the chairman of the Space Commission. Yes. And the report of the Space Commission was recommendation. to create a space core that would prevent a future space Pearl Harbor.

Right. So that was, that report came out in 2001, and Rumsfeld became the Secretary of Defense under the first Bush administration. And Rumsfeld was trying to create the legislation or the policy for the, the creation of a space corps. But before that could happen, you had 9-11. And so all of a sudden, the emphasis switched from preparing the United States for a potential space pole harbour from who knows who to fighting these terrorists in the hills of Afghanistan.

That's right. It happened right at the same time. Exactly. And of course, there was also other aspects. of Rumsfeld revealing the hidden or the misappropriation of trillions of dollars on September 10. He announced that there were $2.1 trillion missing for the Pentagon budget. And he was alluding to, well, where's that money going? What's it being used for? So the attempt to set up a space core was shut down. very early on. And I think this goes back to the ruling bloodline families because they understand

that once you get something like a space corps, space force being created, that there's a momentum behind the military, that the military want this kind of technology being released. And if you give them the means in terms of a capability in space where you have, you have the development of technologies for a future control of space to prevent things like a future space Pearl Harbor, that that would inevitably lead to the release of these technologies that Lockheed Martin has and Northrop Grumman and Raytheon. And so to shuttle that down, they manufactured 9-11. to distract the American public for close to 20 years

from the need for this defense against a space pole harbor. And then Trump comes on the scene, and he virtually early on, from very early in his first administration, he says, Space Force, what a great idea. It's my idea, so it is even better. Yep. It is better than the old Space Corps idea,

but he becomes a champion for Space Force. How does he get it through? How was he allowed him to get that one through? Shear force of will. He got it through. I mean, the ruling bloodline families, they had their people in positions of power. The Secretary of the Air Force at the time, Heather Wilson,

she had gag orders on the need for developing an independent space force. Who had a gag order? Who can gag her? Only SACDF, I would think. No, no, no, Heather Wilson issued the gag order. Oh, she issued the gag order. She issued the gag order. So no Air Force officer could talk about the need for creating a Space Force.

That's the whole department then. Exactly. The whole department of the Air Force, there was a gag order that Heather Wilson issued. And I talk about it in the book, Space Force, our Star Trek future. She put out a gag order to prevent Air Force officers for talking about the need for an independent space organization. The very thing that was proposed in the Rumsfeld Space Commission in 2000 that led to his recommendation for a space call. She's now saying, don't talk about that. So clearly, you have a continuation from 9-11, whoever was behind 9-11, and I think the ruling

bloodline families facilitated that. I can't argue with you. to the gag orders against creating a space force. So Trump sacks Heather Wilson, puts his own person as the Secretary of the Air Force, and he mandates the creation of a space force. And sure enough, the people in the Air Force love it. They love the idea.

Yeah, we want to have a space force. Of course. We need a dedicated space service. And so they were all for it. Which is exactly what would happen in 2001, which is what they stopped, because they understand that the military mindset is like, man, why stop at Air Force, you know, F-22s and F-35s?

If we can have any gravity spacecraft that can do battle in deep space, why the F-not? Of course. We want these space toys. We're all for it. So, yeah. So they exactly what they wanted. And so the deep state tried, they failed because Trump, for various reasons, was wanting to move forward with the creation of this space force because these people, and I think that they are associated with the military, understand that not only is this of great benefit to American citizens and humanity,

the release of these suppressed technologies, but that also why have maybe a dozen spacecraft that you're using for elite units like Air Force special operations that JP photographed back in 2017, that these exist, that these craft are using? Why have a few dozen of these being used for special operations when you can have 300 squadrons. Like the Air Force has 300 squadrons

to develop air superiority over the planet. You have 300 squadrons of Air Force jets. Why not have 300 squadrons of these flying saucer craft, TR3B craft, who in their right mind wouldn't say, yeah, that's what we want. we want to have full spectrum domination in space. And that's what we're having now. I mean, that is happening right now.

I mean, the latest directives from the Trump administration are all about developing full spectrum domination in cis-lunar space. So this is happening right now. And this is all the consequence of Trump creating the space force, creating, recreating U.S. space command and now this is all generating the momentum for the release of these advanced technologies that have been previously built for limited space operations to now being built or mass produced for full spectrum domination in space.

So does that mean solar warden and those secret space programs that predate Space Force exist? Like when Gary McKinnon found those strange lists in NASA about all fleet officers and names of ships and stuff, I don't think he's lying. I mean, he's not lying. America tried to extradite him and Obama was denied. I think he's telling the truth. Absolutely. I think he revealed exactly what he saw.

that there were these cigar-shaped craft that were involved in these fleet-to-fleet transfers of non-terrestrial offices. So I think right there you have evidence of a secret space program. But one of the things that people don't know about the McKinnon case is that shortly after he revealed the existence of this secret space program, space command, U.S. Space Command, which was at the time

one of the ten combatant commands, was subordinated into the Air Force. So someone decided that what McKinnon had done exposed too much of what was going on and so they decided to bury it. So now Space Command is demoted into a subordinate command of the Air Force. And so that means that whatever Space Command was doing, it was being hamstrung now

as a result of McKinnon's revelations. So that raises the question. Well, was McKinnon set up to see this because they wanted to suppress Space Command? and they wanted to suppress the momentum for creating a space force. And that's how they did it. By releasing some of what's really happening and then that becoming a case for burying space command

within the Department of the Air Force and doing nothing with the whole idea of creating a space core. So you don't think they had built anything yet? they had built a lot of stuff because it sounds like he thinks that there were off-world crew oh yeah

I think that they were but these were used for two primary purposes military purposes one is intelligence gathering so the intelligence community would use these reverse engineered craft

like the fly the three the flux liners built and the other was special operations but that would mean that you only need a limited number of these craft but the people in the military

that wanted more of these craft understood that you had to change military doctrine so that space rather than space being place

for peaceful relations between humanity in accordance with the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, which called for space being the domain for peaceful cooperation and that you shouldn't weaponize it, no mass weapons in space and so forth. No nation can claim anything in space. Right, no military bases to be built on the moon and so forth.

You needed to come up with a new doctrine or space that would distance the U.S. military bases. from the peaceful uses of space that were being advocated under the outer space treaty to now space being a contested battlefield where the US needed to assert full spectrum domination. But who's the enemy? You can be vague about that like a space pearl harbor. Could be China. Right.

Could be Russia. Could be anyone. When the media said he was talking about satellites, when he talked about Pearl Harbor. I'm not sure he was. Because I don't know how satellites are Pearl Harbor. That would have been a space Pearl Harbor. Like if all of a sudden the satellite grid was just destroyed by someone.

That's true? That would have been a space pool harbor because all of a sudden the U.S. military is blind. But that doctrinal shift from space being considered a benign environment for peaceful cooperation, to now being a contested sphere, or a contested battle space, that was what Trump did. That was his big innovation. And that doctrinal shift was what Heather Wilson

was fighting on behalf of these bloodline families tooth and nail against, that Air Force officers couldn't talk about that. If you're going to talk about space, space is a place for peaceful cooperation. We send up the ISS and a military pilot might go up to help civilian programs up there, but we're not going to talk about space being a contested battle space at all. Trump changed that.

And in changing that, he opened the door to this huge shift in the way the military regards space where all of a sudden space is now contested. The US military needs to protect its assets in space and develop the means to be able to defend from all types of enemies in cis-luna space, the whole region between the moon and the Earth. Right. That the military had to defend all of that.

And that's a huge doctrinal shift. And now we're seeing the fruit of that where very recently you have the Trump, well, you had the secretary of the Air Force, Troy Mink, saying that the United States has orbital weapons platforms. That is a consequence of Trump's creation of Space Force and making space a contested battlefield. But they can't have orbital. They can't have that in space.

That's a violation of international law. The Outer Space Treaty prohibits nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction. But not. But not defensive weapons. There's always a loophole. Let's take a break. When we come back, the Outer Space Treaty,

a lot of that is based on the Antarctic Treaty of 1959, and I've heard more than one expert say, if there's going to be a World War III, it's going to be the first country that violates the Antarctic Treaty. Here are back. I have in my notes something that I wasn't really aware of that space program, that there's tension there. Solar Warden is connected to Navy and Nordic aligned. The U.S. Air Force program is connected to Space Force.

and they're at odds. Does that sound right? They were at odds. They were. That's right. And that brings us back to the whole question about these meetings and agreements that happened. And as far as I could tell,

my research showed that the Air Force up until recently was working very closely with these grays, with these reptilians, and that they were working also with this dark fleet component. We haven't really gone into that, but that's something that was the kind of darker side of this whole phenomenon. And dark fleet, you buy into that story. because some of the Dark Fleet folks, I've debunked those folks,

but that doesn't mean the story's not true. Right, I think maybe the Corey Good is a good example of someone who put out information that resonated and kind of matched a lot of others. And then he... But he says he invented Darkly. And then he said, well, this is more.

my proprietary information. That's right. I created it through my creative imagination. And he kind of like shot himself in the foot. Yes, you did. But he certainly wasn't the first one to talk about many elements of the secret space programs. No, he wasn't.

And I personally like focus much more on William Tompkins because his version has held up much more, much better. What's his story? Well, he served with the US Navy and he, from 1942 up until 1946, was stationed at Naval Air Station San Diego and he says that he was part of a top secret debriefing program of Navy spies embedded in Nazi Germany and that those Navy spies were bringing back this incredible information about the Germans having developed these flying saucer craft, having developed a base in Antarctica, and that they were moving a lot of these craft down there and that they had these incredible flight performance characteristics.

And Tompkins' job was to be part of the debriefings of these, he said, he named up to 30 Navy young Navy lieutenants that had infiltrated Nazi Germany, that they had German, they had German background, and they infiltrated top corporations in Germany, and they were doing these debriefings, and they were sharing this incredible information. And Tompkins was saying that,

based on that information, he then put together these briefing packets that would be delivered to all of the top aerospace corporations in the United States at the time, which were Douglas Aircraft, Lockheed, and the... Hughes, maybe. The Hughes, Dayton, Ohio,

with the Air Force development of jet aircraft and so forth. So he would deliver these briefing packets and that he often got a negative reception because the engineers, the scientists said, no way, these technologies are not possible. This is bunk and get lost. You're wasting my time. Now, we're not talking alien technology.

We're talking jets. We're talking technologies that the Germans were working on as a result of their collaboration with these reptilian extraterrestrials. So, Tompkins said that these Navy spies reported reptilian extraterrestrials working with the Germans. And the reptilians are at war with the Nordics. Correct. So Nazis in Antarctica, that's absolutely true. Newtobin Land was there.

And you think that was a base? That wasn't just a whale oil mission. That was a base. That was a base. Yeah, that was a base that these German submarines were able to find because they could go under the ice sheets and they found those. here's an argument I have with some of my audience who say that anybody can go to Antarctica

because I say nobody can go to Antarctica nobody can go there yeah you can take a cruise there you can get permission you try and get permission to go somewhere in Antarctica other than right there at McMurdo McMurdo Base or you want to go in there is as big of these as the United States good luck getting permission

you're not going you agree yeah you can get to Antarctica I mean Brad also A friend of mine who is a good researcher. He travelled to Antarctica, but he didn't see anything. I mean, he said he was looking for this stuff, the secret base, but he couldn't get anywhere close to it because, I mean, he was part of a, he was, well, I think it wasn't quite a cruise ship that he found his passage to Antarctica,

but he couldn't get to these places. No, it's a massive continent, and you can't go there. That's right. You just can't hire a plane and fly over it. And that's what it was a political scientist I was talking to about, Anarcha. And he said, all the countries agree on this is these are the places where you can go. I think there's 17 signatories, something like that, something like that. And you can go no further.

And he considers that the most important international treaty, that the first country to break that causes a war. The Antarctica Treaty, yes, I've heard that, that it is a very important place for controlling the planet. And that's one of the reasons why I think this base was established there by the Germans with the help of their friends, their off-world friends, is because Antarctica, I mean, if you look at the magnetic lines, the Earth, they go, like the Earth is like a toroid, a Taurus, and it goes from the North Pole, the South Pole, it's like those magnetic lines flow around that.

Well, if you want to control the entire planet, energetically, that is a place you would need to control, is Antarctica. And so that raises the question. Well, was it accidental? This is where the Germans set up their base, their original base. And we know from the historical records that in 1939, before World War II started, that President Roosevelt instructed Admiral Bird to launch an expedition to Antarctica, to find the German base. Yeah.

That's a fact. That's historical record. It's a fact. So it's like, well, people say, well, the Germans didn't establish a base down there. It's like, well, why did Roosevelt command Bird to find the base, the German base? And think about high jump. That task force was armed to the teeth. That you don't do that for penguins.

That's right. Why do you need 2,000 Marines for a scientific mission to Antarctica? A carrier, a sub, helicopters, plane, I mean. I mean, I haven't seen any emperor penguins with AK-47s yet. They went down their arm to the teeth, and we still don't know why. That's right. And if you look at the records of Operation High Jump, there were the fleets, the three fleets,

converged in front of Queen Maudland, where the base was... That was landing zone, yeah? That was the place where you would launch the attack on base 211. And apparently that's what happened. There was an attack. They did try to attack the base and take it out, but they were, the Operation High Jumps suffered severe casualties.

And of course, Admiral Byrd went back to the United States via Chile, where he gave that report to Lee Van Atter and talked about this new enemy that could fly from pole to pole. Again, raising this issue about he who controls the pole, or the South Pole has a big hold in controlling the planet because that's the toroidal energy field and the entrances into the inner earth. But the big thing about Admiral Bird,

and a lot of people don't appreciate this, is that if you look at his reception in the United States after Operation High Jump, 1948, he comes back, what was it, February, March of, no, 47, February 7, February, March, 4, February, March 47, he comes back. It's all secret. Compare that with every other time he came back. Tick or tape parade.

Exactly. So what in the world happened? What happened? Something happened in Antarctica. Because they were turned back a little early. They wanted to suppress. And they gave Bird this, you know, gag order that he wasn't to talk about it. And we really know nothing firsthand from Admiral Burke.

I mean, you have the diary, the so-called diary. But I don't believe the diary. Yeah, I think it's... It's been debunked. Yeah, it's a document that can be easily debunked. Yes. I think it's put out there to discredit the truth about what really happened there. And of course, like any good disinformation, it's 95% truth, 5% lies.

Part of that legend is he's flying his first-person craft over the ice. He sees mammoths, green fields, and the UFOs come alongside him. He loses control of the plane. He looks, and on the side of the UFOs are swastikas. The Ariani. The Ariani. It goes from there. Yeah, exactly.

So, well, is that the truth that was part of this diary that's really created for disinformation purposes to discredit? Because that's the best way to hide the truth, right? You hide it in a pack of lies. Or you seed it with a certain number of lies. You do. I mean, what was it? Churchill said that in a time of war, truth is so precious that it needs to be surrounded.

Surrounded by a litany of lies. Surrounded by litany of lies, right? It's like, okay, so if there are these Ariani who are closet or that have an affinity with the Nazi ideology, But some elements of it, well, yeah, you hide that truth, but you do it in plain sight by putting out this fake diary. But the bottom line is that William Tompkins, his information about Operation High Jump and Tartica was based on his first-hand exposure to the US Navy's covert program. and then his work with the Douglas Aircraft Company from 1950 to 1961, where he was part of this think tank called Advanced Design,

and he worked directly under Dr. William Clemperer. And it's like, well, who is William Clemperer? He was the guy that came to the United States under contract, from the Zeppelin company to help the United States build its first flying aircraft carriers. Wow. So he was working with Goodyear Zeppelin in the 1920s and 30s to build the USS Akron and Macon. They were the US Navy's first flying aircraft carriers. So they were actually flying aircraft carriers.

They were dirigible, filled with helium, and they could get these aircraft to fly underneath and land on them. So these were flying aircraft carriers in the 1930s. Yeah. The guy who designed these on behalf of the US Navy was William Clemperer. And of course, then you had the crashes in 1933. So that project ended. So Clemper goes on to work with Douglas Aircraft Company.

And then in 1950, William Tompkins starts working with Douglas Aircraft Company. But because of his work with the Navy, he gets fast-tracked into this advanced design where Douglas Aircraft is receiving these contracts from the US Navy for designing space carriers. and the guy running that was Dr. William Clemperer. The same guy who built the same guy. And he was Bill Tompkins' boss in this project that was run out of Douglas Aircraft Company. And at the time, people lose sight of the fact that Douglas Aircraft Company would be the equivalent of how we view Lockheed Martin Skonkewarks. It was the leading aircraft designer in the world,

and that's where the most secretive advanced projects were being developed. And so if the US Navy was wanting a major aerospace corporation to help it design space carriers, Douglas Aircraft was the most logical choice. And the benefit was that you actually had, the guy that had designed the flying aircraft carriers for the Navy working there and heading up the project. So it makes total sense that Tompkins was exposed to this while at Douglas Aircraft Company. It does, but it's not derogables anymore. What's his technology to get out of the atmosphere?

This is the other interesting thing, and it brings us back to the question of these Nordic extraterrestrials. Tompkins says that while he was working at Douglas aircraft, there were these three Nordic extraterrestrials, two stunningly attractive women and one male, that were embedded in Douglas Aircraft Company, and they were helping the engineers and scientists in Douglas to come up with ideas for designing these space carriers. And according to Tompkins, this was what the Nordics were doing, that they were helping the US Navy. develop a future generation of space carriers. If this is true, then World War II was a proxy war for alien races.

Exactly. That's what happened. And I believe that not only did the Germans get help from the Nordics, or sorry, get help from the reptilians, but the US got help from the Nordics. But the big difference was, And you find this in the majestic documents that there's reports talking about the Los Angeles air raid incident in 1940, 1942. Yeah, the battle over Los Angeles.

Right. And you have the correspondence involving Roosevelt and Vannevar Bush. and Vannevar Bush was all for studying and reverse engineering the captured extraterrestrial technologies whereas Roosevelt decided that the technologies were too advanced that the war effort would be hindered if they put resources into studying these captured technologies Right, let's build what works. And put the energy into conventional weapons and atomic weapons

and will leave the study in reverse engineering for after the war. Right. And that's exactly what happens. That's what happens. Why do you think those races are fighting each other? Like for resources here? What are they, why is this planet valuable? I think what has happened is that humanity,

is a tremendous resource. And one group of extraterrestrials look at us as beings that have this potential to be a very positive force for transformation in our galaxy. So this is more the view of, say, the Nordics, and there have been people who talked about that, that the Nordics see us

as some kind of very unique, hybrid creation involving as many as 22 different extraterrestrial genetics. Really? That we have multiple extraterrestrial genetics in our DNA going back hundreds of thousands of years. Who put together that program? I mean, this is an Ananaki story. Ananaki, a part of that? There was a researcher, Arthur Horn,

who wrote a book extraterrestrials, Humanity's extraterrestrial origins. Arthur Horn, who was a, I think he was a paleontologist, so he was professional and academic. And he said if you look at humanity's history, well, actually the history of our planet, there are these intervention points, multiple intervention points,

where he identifies extraterrestrials coming in and altering the genetics of the dominant species at the time. And so there is multiple points in our planetary history. So he documented that in his book, Humanities Exeterrestrial Origins. I need to read that. Could that be where the reptilians and the mantids come from? That they're just part of history? they are part of these intervention points that there have been multiple intervention points

and I believe that what's happened is that there have been multiple experiments, genetic experiments on Earth, done by different civilizations and at the end of those experiments, the Earth is reset. And we start up again. And another race will come in and say,

well, this exceptional. experiment needs our genetics, and so they will lend our genetics. And this has happened multiple times. And so the end result is that present-day Homo sapiens, we're viewed in one of two ways by this constellation of extraterrestrials watching us. One view us as this tremendous amalgam of extraterrestrial origins where all hybrids, all of us are hybrids. And so we have this potential because we have the genetics of as many as 22 different extraterrestrial civilizations. And so we can be very powerful, transformative change agents for the galaxy. And so they want to recruit us to be, well, to put it, you know, think of it like Jedi Knights,

Star Wars. I believe in manifestation, and so does the US military in the gateway process. So imagine if we all learn to do that. Right. And on the other hand, other groups of extraterrestrials look at us as being very powerful warriors that we make an ideal mercenary force that can be used for their planetary conquest.

And so this is where the whole draconian reptilian thing comes into the picture because they saw the Germans and they saw their ideology as very suited for creating this mercenary force. So is ours. So do you think they're out there

or are there humans that were taken to be a military force that are off planet? You do? I do, yeah. I think that there have been military, let's say,

substantial numbers of military personnel and Germans were recruited into this program and they set up a mercenary force that were auxiliaries, if you like, to this draconian imperial force that's out there conquering as many human worlds as possible using human mercenaries from Earth that are part of this dark fleet and so that really sets up a very interesting... It does. What happened to Hans Kamler? What happened to Hans Kamler?

Okay, well Hans Kamler, what he presided over were the unsuccessful attempts by the Nazi SS to weaponize the flying saucer craft that the German secret societies had under development since the 1920s. The Vril, the Toulas. Exactly. So those guys, the German secret societies, they understand consciousness,

they understand the power of manifestation, they understand how a lot of this advanced technology requires developing consciousness. So they did all of that work. And they began developing the first secret space programs or the German space program. And when they realized that the Germans or that the Third Reich was doomed, they moved everything that they could out of Nazi Germany down to South America, neutral countries. Quote unquote neutral.

Right, exactly. Spain and Argentina and so forth. and that they would build a Fourth Reich. So this is the breakaway society theory? Well, it's more than a theory. It's more than a theory. I mean, I've had Peter LeVenda in here who has gone there and been detained. He's been detained by Germans.

Exactly. And you have the Red House report from 1944 that's documented. The Strasbourg meeting in 1944 that, that were a meeting with high-level German industrialists that was presided over by Martin Borman and Heinrich Himmler. That's right. You knew about this as well. And these were orders given to the leading German industrialists, get as much as you can

out of Germany. This is August 94. This is Operation Eagle Flight. Perfect. That was setting up the Fourth Reich. Yes. And so you have all this German capital, all this know-how, all the technology being moved out of Germany. But the German secret societies, they anticipated all of this.

So they knew the Third Reich was headed for defeat. So they moved as much as they could down to Antarctica. And Kamla was part of the Nazi SS. But they were different to the Third Reich. Yes. This is where people often don't appreciate that there is a significant difference between what the Third Reich was trying to do

with these flying saucer technologies and what the secret societies were trying to do with these advanced technologies. And I think that the Third Reich, the Nazi SS, failed, that Hans Kamla failed. but he was given the assignment to reach deals with the Americans, with Alan Dulles, who was heading the CIA's program out of Switzerland. Yeah.

And reach deals with the Americans. And that's what he did. Deals were struck. And that's the last we see of him in history. He's not found again. He's in American custody and he disappears. He disappears, but he's still popular. up from time to time. He does? Yeah. Clark McClelland, who was a spacecraft operator,

who worked for decades in NASA and worked with the paperclip scientists as part of the Apollo program. He says that he saw Hans Kamla in one of the meetings involving Kurt DeBos at the Kennedy Space Center. Hans Kamla shows up at one of the meetings. At one of the... of these meetings. Why didn't he come over as part of paperclip? He would have been useful. Some deal was struck with Kamala and exactly what his role was with the deal. It's not clear what that was, but he seems to have been someone setting up these

negotiations between the Fourth Reich and the U.S. And of course we know all about Reinhardt-Gurland and the setting up of a kind of German espionage service using these ex-Nazi agents and how they were all working with the CIA in collaboration with the CIA. So a lot of the Nazi intelligence apparatus was absorbed by the CIA into West Germany, into NATO. And that's not controversial because paperclip was almost a cover story. for maybe 10,000 Nazis that got absorbed as American assets for the intelligence community that lives full lives here with pensions and everything. And what's very significant about that, and Jim Mars, I have to credit him for that work in his book, The Fourth Reich.

Yes. He points out that a lot of these paper clips scientists were given, they were fast-tracked in terms of their security clearances, and they were given high-level positions, not just in NASA, but also in these high-level corporations. So why is that? How would it be possible for these German paper scientists come here and be fast-tracked for security clearances

that would take American scientists two years or whatever to get the necessity? Bonn Brown should have been hung. He should have been hung. He was a national hero. But he should have been hung at the Hague. as a major in the SS 30,000 Jews died on his watch but he said he didn't know about it

he knows how to build rockets all is forgiven and he's put in charge of the Marshall Space Flight Center and he has hundreds of German scientists working under him under the Marshall Space Flight Center setting up the Apollo program

and ostensibly building the Saturn 5 rocket now was that what was really happening with the paperclips scientists out of Marshall Space Flight Centre? They were building these rockets, these Saturn 5 rockets for the Apollo program and that's what they exclusively focus their energies on. Or were they moonlighting in these underground facilities near Redstone Arsenal? building these flying saucer craft or these ARV craft. And this is anecdotal, but I got it from a very good source.

A Dr. David Clements, who was doing a postdoctoral at a university in Edinburgh in 2002. He was working with Thomas Bearden. And I don't know if you heard of Thomas Bearden. I have. Very prominent anti-gravity, free energy, scalar weapons researcher. And Thomas Bearden told him in 2002 that he knew of a secret base in Alabama that had superluminal spacecraft in operation since the 1960s. Now, you think about that, superluminal spacecraft in Alabama in the 1960s.

Well, Alabama, where's that? Well, isn't that where Redstone Arsenal is? Isn't that where the Marshall Space? Huntsville, Alabama. That's where it was. They had superluminal craft being built. And this brings us back to JP because JP says he was taken twice to a facility in northern Alabama where he saw these anti-gravity craft and Nordics.

Superliminal, though, that breaks my brain. Do we know what technology they used to do that? this folding space, is this extra-dimensional travel, or is this something else? Warp Drive? It would have had to have been something that was able to not just Ben, well, yeah, Ben's Space Time, but also develop something along the lines of a Tacion drive, Tacions, because you know, one of the leaked SS documents, supposedly that came out in the the 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union that was a former KGB file.

There was a researcher Vladimir Tosinski who was the first to reveal these documents and there was a Nazi SS document that showed three craft that looked suspiciously like the three craft that were on display at Norton Air Force Base in 1988. So these three craft had, well there were four models. There was a Thule model and there were these Hannibal models and the Hannibal models had these tachonator drives. So what is a tachionator? It's a faster than light particle that physicists know exist because the theory predicts

it exists but it's eschewed from mainstream physics. And again I go to David Clements who is a physicist from Cambridge. He got his PhD from Cambridge. Physics, he was a string theorist, and he taught at Cambridge for a little while. And he says, he confirms that tachions are predicted in string theory, but string theorists are advised not to go there, not to look at these tachions, to just eschew them, that this is like forbidden.

It's like you will lose your career, you will lose funding if you start talking about tachions. So we talk about Bearden superluminal drives, him being an expert in free energy, scalar weapons, him working for a time out of Huntsville, Alabama, saying there's superluminal craft there. I think these superluminal crafts had something along the lines of tachionator, tackion propulsion systems in them that made them capable of that superluminal ability, which gave them the capability and this is the one that really kind of stretches

people's minds is like you can arrive at your destination before you depart for it in relativity the math works to do that the math works I can't explain it that well

but the math works but I can't get my brain around getting a craft to do it A particle, yes, but creating a nuts and bolts vehicle. I don't know how they can do that. Bearden, I think, is a good resource to show or explain that such a thing is feasible. Yes. And then you have whistleblowers like Bill Tonkins talking about the Navy working on these kinds of advanced technology projects.

And then you have all of the stories about Admiral Bird, Operation High Jump and the new enemy that could fly from pole to pole, something's there. Yep. Yeah, I mean, I guess if you energized a solid body hull, it can create its own field, and they know how to manipulate that somehow. Well, there were those five patents that... Salvador Pais. ...came out, and one of them talked about creating this energy bubble that could be...

used to propel that craft at these, say, superluminal speeds or at speeds that are just far beyond our kind of like present white world science. I have to get him in here to talk about some of those wild patents of his. Yeah, and those patents were supported by the Navy. I mean, he... Supported. They were rejected by the USPTO until the Navy intervened. Exactly.

And said, no, this is legit. Exactly. And again, this comes back to the earlier question we had about the fight between the dark hats. Yes. The ruling bloodline families and the white hats, the military, that want this information to come out. Paias was working for the Navy, working on behalf of them to reveal some of the technologies that have been secretly developed and used for decades in the secret space programs. He's definitely a white hat because I've talked about him being elusive in the media And two days after that he emailed me and said oh come on your show

So he's he's a white hat to me I was very surprising that he's willing to come in and just and talk about that stuff So there there are people pushing this Yeah, I think the I think the military has a lot of white hats in there that that want all this stuff to come out because bottom line Why wouldn't you if you're a four star Abner? or general, why wouldn't you want to have superlunal craft as part of your arsenal, as part of your means of being able to achieve full-spectrum domination in cis-luner space and beyond? It's just what do you do about your competitors? What do you do about Russia and China?

Do they have it as well? Or is that a concern that once we show this exotic technology, then others will have it and then we're back to fighting each other again? As far as I know, there's a lot of cooperation between the scenes, behind the scenes between Russia, China, when it comes to this advanced technology stuff.

Now, the Russians and the Chinese have been developing their own secret space programs and studying retrieved craft for decades. But for various reasons, they are well behind the United States. They are. Yeah, totally. I mean, you look at the collapse of the Soviet Union,

and that was because the Soviets understood that the US technological gap was so wide, and with the advent of even more sophisticated computer technologies, quantum computing, SDI, and so forth, that there was no point competing. It was better to just cooperate. And so I think that's what happened, that's what led to the end of the Cold War, that the USSR was told that, well, it's better to merge our programs,

and you'll come in and you'll be subordinate, but nevertheless, you'll be a partner. And the Chinese, they have only recently developed the technological and economic infrastructure to start becoming a serious competitor. But they're only recent. They're only recently. They've done that. But they're doing it. Now.

They're doing it. There might be something to that about the end of the Cold War because I remember when after the Soviet Union dissolved, a lot of documents came out. We can see them in the CIA reading room that in the early 40s

their advanced technology programs were estimated to be about 40 years ahead of ours. So they get Sputnik in space and they do everything in space first. But that something happened in the late 60s where it switched, where we springboard over them.

Do you have any theories on what happened? Well, then their main guy, Sergio Corolev, the main guy working on their rocket program, was killed or died. 66, 67. And that really set them back because, I mean, he was, well, more than von Braun.

I mean, he was a Russian native, and he was a genius. And you just can't lose people like that if you're setting up a secret, or you're setting up a space program and you're trying to understand these very advanced technologies. You might just have one or two people that are really out there in terms of their mental capacity to understand and develop these technologies. and I think with his death, the Soviets pretty much gave up on the race to the moon, and then you had the kind of slow demise of the Soviet Union afterwards. So something was helping the US in moving forward in the secret space program.

I think so too. And when Kennedy gives a speech and offers to go to the moon, with the Soviets as partners and then instead shortly after, that would have changed geopolitics forever if it was a joint mission between the United States and the Soviet Union to the moon? That's right. Yes, that on November 11, 1963, so this is 11 days before the assassination,

Nicodagh Khrushchev and Kennedy agreed for joint space cooperation. between the US and USSR, and they would share all pertinent files to enable space cooperation and joint missions to the moon. And part of the condition, and again, this takes us to the leaked majestic documents, and there's good reason,

and actually there are some leaked, well, actually a FOIA document, NSAM-271, talks about NASA and the Soviet space program sharing files. And Sam, that that's a real document for sure. Exactly. And so there's also leaked majestic documents that dovetile with that

that say that the CIA had to share its classified UFO files with NASA so that it could fulfill its obligations to share files with the Soviet Union. And of course, the people running the secret space programs knew that this was Kennedy's N-run around the CIA's blocking him getting access to the classified files. And James Jesus Angleton, as the CIA's counterintelligence head, who was responsible for the classified CIA files,

he implemented the majestic directive, or the magic directives. And one of those directives was called, project environment, which was a cryptic assassination directive that said, when the environment is non-conduasive to growth in Washington, D.C., it must be wet. Well, why was it written that way? Well, because there are secretaries that type out these directives, and the secretary types out a directive saying,

well, if any president gets out of line and threatens our operations, he should be eliminated. You can imagine a secretary typing that out how she would react. So you have a cryptic phrase. But that phrase is very clear for people in the intelligence community that you kill them.

And that's exactly what happened 11 days later with the Kennedy assassination. And that was, I think, directly related to that November 11 agreement between Khrushchev and Kennedy that information files, concerning UFOs needed to be shared as part of this joint lunar

and space operation. If you follow the Kennedy assassination threads far enough, you'll always end up at UFOs. You'll end up at the Mori Island incident. You'll end up you'll find Guy Bannister and all these

characters that you know from the JFK movie. They're all involved and it all goes back to the UFO retrieval in Northwest. The Kenneth Arnold's sighting happened two weeks earlier. from War Island and all those characters end up in New Orleans plotting to kill a president.

David Ferry. Well, another element to all of that that's kind of like crazy, but I'll throw it out there because we've been talking about it, is that Joseph Kennedy, his father, people know that he had deals with the mafia and he had...

That's how Chicago was won. That's how Chicago was won. Well, what people... don't appreciate is that Joe Kennedy was also a supporter of Nazi Germany. He was. Britain's ambassador, he was a sympathizer for the Nazis. And so... The Dulles brothers as well.

Dulles brothers as well. And so it's like agreements were reached in the 1950s with the Fourth Reich. What role did Joe Kennedy play in that? What role did Joe Kennedy play in getting the Fourth Reich to support his... son being elevated to from a junior senator from Massachusetts to become the president of

the United States. Did these this Fourth Reich support that? And if the Fourth Reich felt that well after Joe Kennedy became incapacitated and the Kennedys were now suddenly

going their own path and not supporting the Fourth Reich agenda because if the Fourth Reich wanted everything to be kept secret. And here the Kennedy brothers are wanting to share files with the Soviets and they're wanting to have these UFO files become more transparent or circulated at the very least among the major US institutions like the State Department and so forth,

then the Kennedys would have been a threat to the secrecy. Yes. And so could the Germans have played a role in that as well? So it's something to kind of throw into the mix. I hadn't considered the Germans. I just thought it was a deep state plot. But you lean Fourth Reich on Kennedy? I think the ones that were in control of the UFO secrecy

totally were in control of that. and they co-opted other elements, whether it was the CIA, whether it was the Corsican mafia, whether it was other gangsters from the United States, disaffected Cuban exiles, that they co-opted all of them to do the dirty work, but that this majestic 12 group were the ones that were ultimately behind it.

And you can trace it to Alan Dulles. And Alan Dulles was the guy that made the agreements with the Germans. So to what extent are the Germans involved? Well, we know Alan Dulles, the Majestic 12 group were involved in these directives. There's a paper trial. And very recently it's been proved that there was a, the majestic document that revealed a lot of the, well, revealed the burn memo, the famous burn memo, the one that

said that there was this cryptic assassination directive, that that was actually leaked by this CIA operative Newton's Scotty Miller. Now, wasn't that the document that was supposedly planted in the archives by Shanderay Moore? The burn memo? That one, I think that was a medieval. document. It was a majestic document that Staten Freeman found when he went into the archives.

Yes. Yeah, that they, that was something that referred to Operation Majestic, which supported the, the reality of the majestic program. But look at the mess we're in again. We're back to Bill Moore and Doty with the documents. So the majestic documents look legit, but because these guys are attached to it, we're back to the fake diplomas on the wall. Well, there is that, but Newton, Scotty Miller, wasn't Richard Doty. I mean, he was actually a counterintelligence officer that worked under James Jesus Angleton. And from the very beginning, that burned memo was part of a collection of majestic documents that were rescued from an attempt to burn them because Angleton had died

and that a directive was put out by the CIA's counterintelligence division to burn anything that Angleton had. And Newton, Scotty Miller, was one of Angleton's operatives and he knew the importance of these documents and he rescued them from the fire. So he's a legitimate covert operative with the CI's counterintelligence. Does that mean that he's another doughty? I don't know.

Some can make that question. But I think if you wanted to support the legitimacy of the majestic documents that are connected to the Kennedy assassination, we know that one of the sources, S-1, was in fact a, a known CIA counterintelligence operative that worked directly under Angleton and that that operative, when he leaked the documents, said that these documents were rescued from a fire

and they actually show evidence of smoke and fire damage. Yeah, Forrestall didn't jump from that window. No, he was pushed out of that window. I totally agree with that. And Boristel was someone, well, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the Navy. He was... First Secretary of Defense. Exactly, first Secretary of Defense.

So he was read into a lot of the programs. And he knew about what Tompkins was working on with the U.S. Navy. And there's orders that Tompkins has released that are connected. to James Forrestle. But the really interesting thing about Forrestle is that he and President Kennedy were, well, he was, Kennedy was Forrestle's protege. That Forrestle took Kennedy to occupied Germany

after the Second World War and showed him the facilities, the German facilities that held the most, advanced technologies that were of interest to the U.S. Navy. I think Ike told JFK some things too. That's right. That's right. Because Kennedy would call him up and ask him about stuff. And one of the things Eisenhower said was, don't trust the CIA. Interesting, interesting.

So Forrestle knew a lot of the stuff and had told Kennedy a lot of the stuff while Kennedy was because Forrestle was trying to recruit Kennedy to his office but eventually Kennedy was persuaded by his father to enter politics and fill in the role that his older brother would have filled in and so Kennedy became a politician

but he and Forrestle maintained a close relationship and up until 49 they regularly met And Forestall was, I think, killed because he was breaking ranks. He was revealing things to different members of Congress, including Kennedy, about what was really going on with the management of the extraterrestrial files. And so they decided to eliminate Boristel. And that's what happened.

and then in 1963, in April. Did JFK ever comment on Forrestal's death? Not directly. Indirectly, he did. Because in 1963, before he went to Homestead, White Sands Missile Range, where there were a bunch of project paperclips scientists, before he went there,

he visited the grave of James Forrestle. And so there's a picture of him. And in my book, I got that picture of Kennedy visiting the grave of James Forrestles. This is in April, just a week before he's to fly off to White Sands to meet with the paperclip German scientists that are running the programs there that are really in charge of a lot of these UFO files or the reverse engineering. What's going on? And I think he was...

seeking advice, solace. But the kind of nonverbal message there is that he was following in the path of Forrestle in confronting the powers that be in releasing this information. And it was ultimately a losing battle. He followed Forrestle all the way to the end. Yeah. Both he and Forrestle are real American heroes. They really were.

It was that November 11th speech that would have changed the course of history. It's one of those hinge points that leads to his assassination, which changed history for the wars. Yeah. Kennedy definitely was a person that wanted to reveal a lot of the UFO information. But I think he wanted to do it in a very methodical way. I think if he had survived in 1964, he would have circulated the files to the Department of State to other public officials. You would have brought the Soviets in his partners. Exactly.

Similar to what's happening today under President Trump. What you're having now is you're not having a lot of these files or the information concerning crash UFOs, reverse engineering of Exeterrault. industrial craft being released to the general public. That's not what President Trump has done. What is done is issued directives freeing whistleblowers from their NDAs or giving them waivers from any kind of agreements they've reached with aerospace companies and so forth

to reveal what they know to the Pursue Program, that's the presidential unsealing and records system for UAP encounters. So he is making it possible, Trump is making it possible, for that information to be shared more widely in the bureaucracy. And that is the way Kennedy was trying to do it as well. So Trump is following the footsteps of Kennedy. First, you release these files to the bureaucracy, So it gets circulated around

and then once it does more and more people look at all this stuff and say, this needs to be released. And so you have the momentum coming from the system itself. But if you try and do it on your own, you'll get bumped off. And so that's what Trump is doing.

You know, he's not doing it on his own. He's trying to get the bureaucracy to share this information more widely. And I think he's genius, move was to set up the space force and the space command and come up with this doctrinal shift. So all of a sudden, you take the whole topic of UFOs out of the domain of the intelligence community and you put it into the domain of the future of war fighting. How do we deal with these kinds of threats? And so what Trump has done is he set up the bureaucracy,

to become his allies in releasing the UFO files, in releasing the truth of what's going on. So that's why I'm much more confident that Trump will succeed, whereas Kennedy ultimately failed. Well, there's been attempts on Trump's life as well. Do you think there's more to those stories than what we hear in the media? I think the Butler assassination attempt is a classic.

On the one hand, you have, the deep state coming within a centimeter of assassinating Trump. But on the other hand, you have the white hats showing the deep state. You gave it your best shot. You couldn't pull it off because we have better technology than you. We can anticipate your moves. And we have the means to protect our people. And so they're protecting Trump.

And they're doing it. They are? Do you think they are? Totally, yeah. I think there have been multiple assassination attempts on Trump. And the white hats get tipped off. How do they get tipped off? Well, the people who have the superior time travel technologies

or the chronovisor technologies can see further ahead. Where is that device? Who has that device? And how does it work? Well, that gets us to the whole extraterrestrial element here. Like the Trump working with this Galactic Federation, the whole Hame Eshed narrative, you've heard of that? I have.

Okay, now Hame Eshed talked about that in 2019, and Trump is working with the Galactic Federation, there's deals, they have a base on Mars and so forth. And so who is Hamish Edwell? He's very credible. And then he disappears for seven years. After revealing all this and everyone thinks he's crazy. Right.

All his former colleagues think he's crazy. He disappears. And now he comes forward seven years later and he pops up with Yuri Gala. And Geller is saying, hey, yeah, that Trump's working with the Galactic Federation and that the Galactic Federation. has bases in northern Israel and they are doing all this stuff. It's pretty wild stuff,

but I think that the bottom line is that there are benign extraterrestrial groups. So this is an intergalactic community of races? There's an organization. An organization. People give it different names. Galactic Federation is a name given to it

by Haim Escher, because he's the most credible source out there, his testimony carries a little bit away. And so he's saying that they are working with the Trump administration. And I believe that the Trump administration, Space Force, are working with benign extraterrestrials to reveal a lot of these advanced technologies to protect people like Trump who are critical for this shift to move forward and that we're fast reaching the point.

We probably think we've reached the point. Now, on the one hand, you can put disclosure like into the basket of like, well, we want it to happen. All the signs show that it's going to happen, but we don't know when and how. Right. But what you can put into,

the inevitable basket that's unstoppable is that humanity is moving into an interplanetary society. That can't be stopped. That can't be stopped. It's already a done deal. It's already happened. You have the Artemis Accords, 70 nations that have signed on to these bilateral agreements with NASA to develop space. You have the US Space Command that has signed agreements with other major spacefaring nations to collaborate militarily in space, Germany, France, Australia, Canada, Britain and so forth.

You actually have the Secretary of the Air Force coming forward saying that we have developed weapons in Earth orbit, that's a done deal. It's no question now. Space is a contested battlefield that the United States has weapons in space. You have Trump talking about, openly talking about an American staff fleet where they're going to use nuclear propulsion systems

for thousands of spacecraft. Who is the enemy? They're leaving that vague. They are. They're leaving that vague. and of course the reptiles, the P-52s I hear. Yeah, they're leaving that open,

but a lot of rumors are out there, but that's incontestable that Trump has said that an American space fleet is being built with thousands of starships. And he said, 2028, this is Trump's on the record, 2028, the first nuclear-powered spacecraft under space for space force will be going out and there'll be thousands of these. Does the next president continue this work?

It's inevitable because the dynamic has been set up. It's no longer a presidential initiative. It is now military. Only Trump could have gotten around the families. Only Trump could have done that for being a wealthy outsider. If it was a Washington or just a Washington swamp rat, He was fought against tooth and nail, as we know. They tried to stop him at every step.

But now Trump... But if you get a Marco Rubio or a Democrat mainstream, I feel like they're very easily controlled. They are easily controlled. But what's shifted is that now you have the military industrial complex on side. On the one hand, the families were like against this, trying to stop it. But what Trump's genius has done is that he's got the military,

industrial complex on side. Now, and he's got companies like SpaceX and Alan Musk, Musk is building gigafactories. And he's on the record. He's saying they're going to build thousands of starships, thousands of starships every year that they're going to build a thousand starships and that this is what's on the way. And that Musk was just nominated to be,

the head of Project Meridian, which is the future technological innovation in war fighting. And this is where space comes. So this is inevitable. We are becoming an interplanetary civilization. We're going to have a trillionaire on our team. Yeah. That's helpful. Yeah, he's on his way.

He's on our side. And this is where you have all the major corporations. that are going to be building these new generation craft, and they're going to be initially the bridge to this more advanced stuff that Lockheed and Northrop Grumman and Boeing have built for decades secretly for the families and the intelligence community. But at some point you're going to have all of that being bridged

in this future, in this future in a planetary civilization. But, you know, the very fact that Trump used the words, a massive American starfleet, it's like this is coming. It can't be stopped. Even if Democrats come in, they can't oppose the military industrial complex. No, they cannot. I mean, how can Democrats come in and say, well, Trump brought about a rapid increase in the Pentagon budget

to $1.5 trillion for the 27. and DAA. Democrats love that too. We want to reverse that because that's unjust. Not going to happen. Exactly. No, we'll never get an audit out of them. Exactly.

So that's inevitable. It's reassuring to hear because I always felt that the military contractors were the enemy. But if you get them on your side, then it is inevitable. Exactly. The bottom line, you know, Trump being a businessman, he knew how he knew how, he knew how, he knew to do it. He knew how to, how do you get the military industrial complex on side? Well, you set up the financial incentive for them to do so. You get the military on board because they want the best warfighting toys for space. Sure. Who wouldn't? Who wouldn't? Exactly. So you get all of them

on side. Then disclosure becomes inevitable because, well then it's normalized. And the thing is you're not going to shock. There's not going to be the onological shock. No. Oh, well, there's these reptilians out there that have been abducting humans or grays, abducting humans and using them for all sorts of nefarious things. Well, all of a sudden, we got Space Force and Space Command and an American Starfleet out there with thousands of really incredibly well-armed spacecraft that are armed to the teeth to fight battles. It's like, well, that's pretty reassuring to know that, right? Yeah, tell us about the extradressuals.

I'm not so scared now. It's true. It's the way to get it done is why do we need Space Force? Well, because these are real. The lizard people are real? Yeah, they're real. Here's the budget. Let's go.

Exactly. Exactly. And that also explains why, after you had Space Force established by Trump, why Netflix came up with this ridiculous series called Space Force. If you remember that, that was kind of like just made it out

to be this big joke because that's what the families wanted to do. They wanted to make it out to be a big joke. Oh, yes, Space Force is a big joke. Ha, ha, ha. These guys are inept.

You know, we shouldn't take it seriously. And of course, under the Biden administration, there really wasn't all that much that was happening to help Space Force move forward. But now, under the second Trump administration, it's being turbocharp. We've got space weapons are being declared.

Cis lunar space is going to be defended as future war fighting, an American Starfleet, Musk being appointed to be the technology czar for future war fighting. It's like, okay, this is where the big bucks are, this is where the high tech is being developed. And now they're developing this superintelligence. What's all that about?

Well, I think they're developing the means to be able to control renegade AI on planet Earth. You absolutely need to prepare for that. That is not a joke. You need to prepare for that. I want to shift gears if that's okay. Sure. We can come back if you want to.

2003, United States once again is bombing countries and invading countries. Over the course of three days, the main museum in Iraq is looted in something like 10,000 artifacts are missing, including still under seals, going back to ancient

Sumer. And it has been alleged, I have alleged it, that there is ancient technology on those scrolls and in those artifacts, and that that wasn't a random looting, that the war was a cover to go in there and get that stuff.

And we know that the first Gulf War was based on a lie. That's a fact. That's a fact, Jack. I think the second one was as well. Do you think there's ancient tech out there? Totally, yeah. Very advanced technologies. And when you look at the Kuneo-formed texts,

one of the things that becomes very, very clear is that the Anonaki had two forms. forms of propulsion that they used for travel between their home world and Earth. And it was, on the one hand, you had something very similar to rocket technology. So that would explain Bellbeck and the building massive space ports in the region. You have these massive space ports where rockets would land and you could ferry people, supplies, gold and so forth, back and forth. And so that was one technology that was widely used by the Anunnaki.

The second technology were portals. Or portals? Portals. Gateways, Stargates. And these were used by the elite, the Anonaki elite. So these were not for the rank and file, Anonaki, the Igigi and so forth. These would only be the elite that could use these kinds of portal technologies. And I believe these led to Atlantis, to the Yucatan Peninsula, to I think probably Manoa,

right, these major civilizations, these ancient civilizations. You think there's something to that, to Atlantis? There's connections between these civilizations. And, you know, this is where it gets really wild, is that they are not ancient civilizations that are long extinct. They are existing right now. Of course, they're in a completely different spacetime bubble. They are? Like an alternate universe?

It's kind of like that, kind of like an alternate universe. I mean, that there's technology, portals, that you could. step through this portal and you would walk into ancient Atlantis. So time travel as well? Time travel, being able to move between different space time bubbles, because I think that's how we could regard it, that time is not, people talk about that, that time is not linear. It's like all happening at the same time.

Yes, I think that's true. And so if Atlantis is happening, at the same time as us. So that means right now, if you and I went through a space-time portal and we show up in Atlantis, and we start saying, hey, wow, this is fantastic. You know, you guys, your civilization is going to collapse

in five years' time that we're from the future. They'd have us committed. It's that you guys are crazy. I'd love to see it. The portal tech is one of the technologies alleged to be that was looted from the museum. That's one of the technologies. I did a whole episode on the portal tech.

It starts with the looting of the museum. And there seems to be a kind of sacred geometry or very intricate mathematics behind how to activate and use these portals and that the kaneiform texts talked about that. And so that's where they... really needed to get access to those canal form text. So there's one, it's one thing to get your hands on the hardware,

like the actual portal, Stargate, whatever it is. But then knowing how to use it is another thing. So that's where they needed the canal form texts to understand how to utilize these technologies because it seems that it's very intricate and it requires a very advanced understanding of math, mathematics, sacred geometry, to be able to do that. And so they were seeking that information at the time.

Do you think they got one to work? Is that a version of the chronovisor? Well, the chronovizer, I mean, that goes back to Anestu, the Father Enetti. Yeah, Father Enetti. And what was discovered in the 1950s and 60s through this technology. And you had the outer limits kind of like making. that something that was accessible to the public

or something that would permeate into the public consciousness. That's true. So that technology, chronovisor technology, being able to look at different timelines. He was a trained physicist, Father Renetti. Right, yeah. Vatican has a lot of very highly trained priests who are scientists. Oh, yes, they do.

Because they have their hands on this advanced technology, and they're full partners with the... A lot of the lot of Vatican scientists have been working in these classified programs trying to understand and reverse engineer these recovered technologies, portal technologies, cuneiform texts, as are the Israelis, the Mossad. And I mean that was one of the things that I found very curious about James Jesus Angleton was that as CIA counterintelligence chief. He only had responsibility for three. desks, three desks, one was CI counterintelligence, the other was the Vatican and the other was Israel and the Mossad. So you have to ask yourself, what is the connection, what is the parallel to all those things? And I think with Israel, it's like Israel is a very ancient land and because it's been such a hotly contested

zone for thousands of years I mean the Crusades what was all that about the Crusades and why do the Muslims attach so much significance to Jerusalem and it's because that has very powerful energy vortices there

and what goes with that is very very ancient technologies. But to have the Vatican and Mossad, that confuses me because the Nazis couldn't have gotten out of there without the Vatican's help. I mean, the Vatican, Vatican was very complicit in the Nazi rat lines

and the getting gold out. I think a lot of the gold went through the Vatican, to be honest. So you don't get farther away from Nazis than Mossad is that's the whole other side of the spectrum. So what's going on there? Is the Fourth Reich allowed to exist? I mean, Nazi hunters went... Well, the Fourth Reich existed.

It was allowed to exist. The Vatican played a role in the rat lines and all of that. And they were collaborating with all sides to develop these technologies because from the Vatican perspective, from the perspective of their scientists, it's like these guys have access to technologies going back thousands of years in the Vatican Library they have technologies

that are very old, very ancient they're trying to understand them and so their primary goal is like well we want to understand these technologies if we're going to work with Fourth Reich Nazis sure no problem if we're going to work with

With Mossad, sure, no problem. We have no problem with that. Just opportunism. Okay. We want to know about these technologies and the US military industrial complex is like, well, we want to know about these technologies as well. And the Vatican, well, you got the world's oldest

and best intelligence service, so we want to be full partners with you. Sure. And the Mossad, it's like, well, you guys have access to this ancient stuff down there under that whole territory, Palestine, which is really very advanced, very sophisticated, and we don't understand a lot of that. So we want to work with you and gaining access and reverse engineering all of that.

And from the perspective of the Mossar, it's like, yeah, we want to work with the US military industrial complex because we want to watch the Germans, the Fourth Reich. We want to see what they're up to because they're our enemies. They're our mortal enemies. And why is that? That's a very interesting question. It is. Do you think the Fourth Reich exists?

Do you think it survived? I think it survived. I think it continues to operate, maybe in a diminished form to what it once did, because I think the creation of space force has changed the dynamic in our solar system. That, as far as I know, that our solar system has many different extraterrestrial races that have been here for a long, long time.

They have monitoring the earth. They saw our history. But now they are working with the Trump administration and what we would consider to be more enlightened factions that want to ensure that Earth evolves in a responsible way. and that the US Space Force and Space Command are going to be the seed of this future planetary organization. Now one of the sources I work with, he says that the name of this organization has already been revealed,

and he calls it the United Earth Space Command. Okay. But that exists. That is an amalgam of Space Force and the Solar Warden program and it is integrating the Russians, the Chinese and the Americans

and Bivis and the major European nations, India and so forth. So the extraterrestrial civilizations are looking at all of this and it's substantiated by what we're seeing because there's no real pushback to what Space Force

and what the Trump administration is announcing. No. There's an American space force. Sorry, there's an American space fleet that's being developed, that Earth, that space force has weapons, platforms. Totally, of course. There's no big pushback. Why isn't the United Nations Security Council having all these nations come forward

saying this is an abomination? This is not consistent with the outer space treaty. We've all signed the outer space treaty. no one's putting up a fuss. Why? Because there are agreements that the United States is giving a lot of nations that have signed on to the Artemis Accord exposure to these future technologies. And that is happening at Green Mountain, Alabama. And I've talked about that with JP. He says that he was taken there twice. and that he saw international pilots from 30 nations or more being trained by these Nordic-looking extraterrestrials to fly these hybrid spacecraft. So there's the carrot, because that's one of the things I look at in terms of as a political scientist. It's like, well, why in the world are the major spacefaring nations signing on to the Artemis Accords, which are bilateral agreements making the U.S. the top dog in terms of the future of space.

Why are they doing that? What's the big carrot here? Why aren't they saying this has to be done through the United Nations as a multilateral agreement like we did with the outer space treaty and with the Moon Treaty and so forth? It would never work. It wouldn't work. Wouldn't work. And it's because the U.S. has a big carrot. Right.

And they're offering any nation. that signs on to the Artemis Accords, exposure to this program. But there's always another side to the carrot. Stick. Countries like Iran are being given to stick. Venezuela being given to stick. That's what happens. That's what happens.

And this takes us to this inevitable development of our planet becoming and interplanetary civilization. where the United States Space Force Space Command and this new entity, United Earth Space Command, is at the center. Now, the Galactics are looking at all of this, and they're saying, okay, the humans are getting their house in order. So we no longer have to deal with these renegade, dark fleet,

German, forthright, racists. Right. Supremis. supremacists that want to work with the Dracal reptilians in their, you know, the galaxy for the Dracal Empire. And it's like, we're no longer need to work with them. So what's happening? Can't let the lizard people take over.

We can't allow it. Exactly. So the lizard people, they're not being allowed to take over. And so now the influence of the dark feed is being rolled back big time in our solar system and beyond. So for the moment, it'll be, we, humanity is going to become an interplanetary civilization.

I don't know how long that will last for, a decade, two decades, but at some point, this advanced technology, the superluminal technology that's being used by solar warden will be revealed and then we will quickly transition into an interstellar civilization.

Yes. So by the 20th, 2040s and beyond, it's very likely that it's going to happen really quick. First it's going to be, I would say, in the next 10 to 15 years, we are going to shift into an interplanetary civilization with all the advanced technology that makes that possible being revealed. the energy technologies, the propulsion technologies will be slowly upgraded to make that possible. And then at some point, we're going to have the big reveal that extraterrestrials are real.

And then we're going to have the transition into interstellar civilization. And that's when things are going to move forward really, really quickly. and yeah, we will become an interstellar civilization, which will be incredible because that'll mean that in 10, 15 years time, people will no longer just be limited to like getting on a starship or a blue origin craft for a tour of the moon and Mars, but you can go for a tour of Alpha Centauri. Yes.

He said Nordics, that is a big deal. That is opening a big door. That is a hole that is not crash retrieval. That is they are out there and they're here. And he was, I think he was given the approval for that. Yes. And Joe Rogan was probably given the green light to reveal this. I think it's coordinated.

I don't think it's accidental that Joe Rogan is the one to have that information come out. It's the biggest platform on the planet and it's a friendly room. You don't want to, everybody likes Ross Coldheart, but you don't want to do it on that show. You want to do it on Joe's show. You know, you want a friendly room. So now that's made it something that opens people's imagination

to these bigger disclosures that are coming. And yeah, I think we are being prepared for revelation that there are multiple extraterrestrials out there and some are our friends and that we're working with them. And they're helping us develop interplanetary and interstellar spacecraft and communication systems. Our conversation is going to get destroyed by mainstream coverage, skeptics and so forth. and what frustrates me about skeptics, especially ones that are professional skeptics,

I'm someone who's open-minded to conspiracies, and I'm wrong most of the time, but not all the time. The skeptics, they can never be right, because as conspiracies get proven true, the skeptics get embarrassed. So if you talk about Nordics, you've been made fun of for talking about these species over you've done doing this 25 years

David Grush said it that's a whole different part of history now right and not only imagination like you said opens the imagination and I think it also opens up this whole policy dimension about well this means that not only that Nordics exist, but that there have been these agreements that have been reached where they are helping us develop these hybrid technologies for sharing amongst the rest of humanity and that they have approved their people like JP to be able to be exposed to these technologies, to these programs, and to reveal it. Now, he's been talking about Nordics for, you know, since 2008, and I've been sharing that information publicly since 2017. And a lot of

people first hear of him and think, well, this guy's obviously crazy. And so they make up all sorts of nasty epithets for him and myself. But now all of a sudden it becomes real because of David grush. Correct. Correct. That's why I know it's coming. Anything we missed that you want to cover? Send everybody to your Patreon. There's good stuff there. That's much appreciated. As you know, Patreon is a great way of supporting channels and I'm doing my best to interview as many people as possible because like yourself, I won't call myself a skeptic. I'm a someone that is convinced that this is real, that this is going on, but I'm open-minded and if someone proves to be unreliable, as in the case of that person we already mentioned, I will walk away and I have

walked away from quite a few people. That's happened a few times, and it's just inevitable because that person will do something to discredit themselves, going back to that Richard Tillman person or that Lieutenant Commander from 2008, 2009. Some people will discredit themselves. Why? Don't know. But you've got to walk away from them.

People like Frank Strangers, it's like, well, amazing information, but fake certificates. What do you do with that? It's like, okay, but you keep an open mind and I'm, but my fundamental approach is that I'm engaged in an intelligence gathering exercise as a political scientist, and I try my best to vet the sources and look at how credible they are and present that information so that people that look at my research,

because I never not cite a source. I don't do that. I will always cite my sources. You do. Because I'm not the experience, so I'm not the one up going up there. Well, I hope you ignore the critics and the hate that you get, because even if you're wrong most of the time, you're right, once in a while.

And that makes the work very important. Well, I hope to be more than a broken clock. Maybe get it right three times out of, yeah, three times in 24 hours. I'm glad you're out there. Dr. Mike, Sala, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you. I hope you come back. There's so much more to talk about. Thank you, AJ. It's been a pleasure. Bye, everybody. That was Michael Sala. He signed off hoping to be right three times a day instead of twice.

So, let's count. Eisenhower first. Ike really did go dark for a few hours one night in Palm Springs, and nine days later, Castle Bravo went off. The dentist is in the Surgeon General's file. The medic is one man's memory. Now, the diploma, Michael, The people's rule is that the real deal has to have a fake degree on the wall to survive. So the more a guy looks like a fraud, the more seriously you take him.

I can't get on board with that. Grenada got me though. The Prime Minister really did drag the UN into UFOs, and the General Assembly passed a decision on it in December 1978 that's still on the books. He was in New York following up on it when his government fell. Look, I don't buy the hurricane or the lizard empire, and JP's missions I can't check. But the man cites every source, and he walks away from people who burn him. And twice tonight, he was right, where I would have been against him.

Michael's research is at exopolitics.org. His Patreon and everything I mentioned are linked below. Until next time, be safe. Be kind. Know that you are appreciated. The conspiracy is And it never ends No, it never ends With MK Ultra

A being on With the shadow people The smiling man Name was cold I'm dirt Stations And where the dark watcher