The Wolf Of All Streets - $123,000 Bitcoin🔥! Will The Fed Turn The Printer On 🖨💴? | Macro Monday

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Bitcoin just became the world’s fifth-largest asset, smashing through $123,000 as institutional inflows hit $3.7 billion in a single week. With the money printer revving, ETFs exploding, and policy turning pro-crypto, this rally is being fueled by serious macro momentum. I’m joined by Dave Weisberger, Mike McGlone, and James Lavish on Macro Monday to break down what’s next for Bitcoin, ETFs, and the Fed. Dave Weisberger: https://x.com/daveweisberger1 James Lavish: https://x.com/jameslavish Mike McGlone: https://x.com/mikemcglone11 ►► JOIN THE WOLF PACK - FREE Telegram group where I share daily updates on everything I'm watching and chat directly with all of you. 👉https://t.me/WolfOfAllStreet_bot ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/ ►► Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities! 👉https://archpublic.com/ ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code '10OFF' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://x.com/scottmelker Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io/ Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c #Bitcoin #Crypto #MacroMonday The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Bitcoin hit another all time high $123,000 in the midst of a macro pump across the board and rumors that Fed Chairman Powell may resign and the money printer may come back on faster than many anticipated. Crazy bull market happening. Altcoins generally keeping up with Bitcoin, if not outperforming. What is going on? We've got the entire boy band back together for the first time in many months, myself, Dave Weisberger, Mike McGlone, and James Lavish.

Could not be more excited for Macro Monday. Let's go. Let's go. The everything pump seems to continue reminding us that markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Let's bring everybody on. James, I haven't seen your face in months. Mike, Dave, James, you left us for a while, but then every time you were here, I was gone. I don't know what was going on.

We're all back, we're ready. And that's what matters here. And we're all back to celebrate $123,000 Bitcoin. To be Uber specific, at this moment, we're trading at an extremely low and obviously disappointing price of a hundred and twenty one eight forty five You know less than one percent off the high but obviously less at Bitcoin continuing to push make all-time highs We have Treasury companies buying in a tremendous clip. We're seeing record inflows into the ETFs. I think the demand is into the ETFs. I think that demand is undeniable.

I think let's just start with the morning meeting as we usually do, and then we can dive right in here. Mike, how are you guys viewing this? Because obviously, as I said, you look at the metrics, maybe this is a bit irrational that we're continuing up in the face of world wars and all of the other things that seem to be happening, the market is shrugging off. Well, first I'm bowing in your general direction and its markets can be very humbling. So I'm very

humbled by this rally in Bitcoin. It's a wonderful thing that risk assets are going up in this environment. This is a question of how long it is. It is July. I'm in the heartland this week, taking some time off and visiting your family and kicking some dirt, always checking out crops myself. But the bottom line from the morning meeting is Anna Wong came on and she had some good quotes this morning. She expects core CPI at one tenths. They're below estimates and expects year over year around 2.8%. So they're really below consensus. They think a lot, she thinks a lot of the tariffs have already been factored in, has already happened. Retail sales, she expects to show a bit of a full pullback. So she's still looking at this as a bit of a contraction, expecting flat retail sales nominal basis to be up. That's something I focused on a while,

minus out inflation. Retail sales hasn't been so great. Gillian Wolf sat in for Gina Martin-Anims. Gillian Wolf's our global equity strategist, pointed out stocks are holding up well, but the risks of broader rotation falling apart. She focused on the US stock market premium is still too high. Right now it's about 40% for the rest of the world. At the end of last year, the peak this year is around 50%.

And their model said it should be more appropriate between 15 and 20 percent and expects it to be going that there. So they're looking at this as a little bit more of a short-term recovery and risk assets in the U.S. Her quote was, analysts are dropping earning estimates outside of tech. She actually expects earnings estimates earnings to show contraction by the end of this year, which is a bit alarming. Ira Jersey, our chief interest rate strategist, pointed out there's solid demand in these bond auctions. Contrary to what we've heard about the US getting out of bonds, his quote was, the auctions

have gained a lot more attention. He's seen a lot, seen not less foreign demand, but more foreign demand and really significant demand from US duration domestic pay. He says that 30 years recently saw the most direct demand ever, which is mostly domestic investment funds, primary dealers, lots of buying duration. Auditory Trill, Trill Freeman, who's our equities, I'm sorry, FX strategies focus on, she's still looking for a bounce in the dollar, but no catalyst, waiting for that catalyst the flow still are dollar negative pointing out tariffs Powell uncertainty Trump

followed Trump going at Paul's is quite a significantly negative for the dollar And then I focus on commodities the headline I wanted to feature this morning I did was stuff from Bloomberg New Energy Finance latest was EVs take charge in China. It's just an overwhelming revolution what's happening. We're in a paradigm shift what's happening in terms of commodities being replaced by technology, most notably in petroleum, crude oil, less so, maybe a little bit natural gas, but still might still see major pressure forces on crude oil. And the key thing I wanted to point out I published today is this massive money supply pumping which Dave and James and you have pointed out in China. Right now China's

running about 45 trillion money supply, which is double the US. Massive money supply despite that, their PPI is minus 3.6%. And we're seeing that pressure on iron ore and crude oil. And it's just a matter of time that the US copper falls, that global pressure getting lower. So I looked at, I just ended with stuff I just pointed out. Well, why buy gold in an environment when Bitcoin's on a tear and stock market's on a tear and interest rates are high? But yet they still are. Gold's hanging in there.

Central banks are buying. ETF buyers have curtailed at 91 million ounces, but they're still up a lot in the year. And then I also ended off with copper to me is the main. I still pointed out how the US risks a similar pump that we had at this time of the year in 2008 with crude oil and US unleaded gas. And right now, the price of copper on a global basis is around $9,500 a ton, and the US has $12,000. It's never been a disparity.

So the risk is the US just follows the rest of the world and follows China. And I don't see how the rest of the world and follows China. And I don't see how the rest of the world is facing tariffs, which have been emboldened and will completely be emboldened by the rising stock market. So to me, the tilt towards commodities is still towards lower. And then I see the grains are just oversupplied. Back to you. You're literally seeing the grains in person this weekend, this week. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm originally from here. I actually own the farm. I've been away for- A real commodity guy.

35 years. Well, that's a key thing. And actually own the farm. I've been away for 35 years. Well, that's a key thing. And remember the thing about grains is they're the most elastic of all commodities. You can bring in that supply in a year. So I always use it, obviously, as my foundation, kicking dirt. I'm not really a mind guy. I just learned that from other people. Yeah.

So out here, but again, you can get a lot of data from not being here, but it's kicking the dirt helps and talking to actual producers helps. So could I jump on one thing that Mike said before we get into the rest of it? I think that's kind of important. So I want to connect a couple of dots. Last week you had Yago, Eden Yago on, and while he made lots of really good points, one of the things he said which I think is exceedingly important is that a large part of the quote supply, the selling was likely from Chinese miners. Now why does this matter?

Well, as Bitcoin has now passed 100 and is moving towards the next big figure, and Chinese money supply is what's breaking out, do we really think that that mining supply, that people who are holding Bitcoin there are going to be selling Bitcoin? And as part of a diversification strategy, it feels like that's almost destined to tail off at least until another big number, whether the next big figure is considered 150 or 200, hell if I know. But with Chinese money supply running like crazy, it seemed to me that the idea of selling Bitcoin of all things, unless one is funding one's lifestyle, just

doesn't make sense. And if that's where you think the selling is going to come from, I think that the selling is going to stop. Now, obviously, it's not binary, right? These things aren't binary. They're tiny little decisions from even if there are 700 Bitcoin billionaires that collectively have been selling into the rally as it goes higher, the question is they're not going to stop digitally, which is what

the Bitcoiners always think. Crypto Twitter, if you believed it, there's this herd and they say yes or they say no, and that's not how it works. It's little bits of decisions. But on the margin, one would expect it to slow down. And if you see slowing down at the same time that we have zero euphoria from the retail side in crypto and there's every, just none of it.

And continual buying from institutions, whether that be treasury companies, whether that be treasury reserve companies, I don't know, is that those the words we're using now, Scott? Treasury versus treasury. I call them Bitcoin treasury companies and Bitcoin balance sheet companies. Okay, so those. Is that those the words we're using now? Scott treasury treasury companies and Bitcoin balance sheet company. Okay, so those two, as well as more interest in funds such as James Bitcoin Opportunity Fund, who's

gentleman enough not to promote his own fund, but I'm sure that your phone is ringing. Because he can just buy a yacht and take pictures of it. But yeah, you get the idea. But the fact is that demand is clearly there. So look, markets are supply and demand. I mean, it's the same reason that things are. But anyway, I just want to make that point

because if Chinese money supply is truly accelerating and that's where a lot of the Bitcoin supply had been coming from, one would expect that to curtail or at least trail off. Listen, I want James to jump in, but to me, this is very easy. And I was saying it last week before we even had this move, like we have just the most basic economics 101 supply and demand. And we actually have the transparent information to show that it's true.

Crypto investment products log second largest weekly inflows of $3.7 billion amid Bitcoin all-time high rally. Remember that this was going through the end of last week, doesn't even include the move up basically the last $5,000 of that move. Two straight billion dollar inflow days bring spot Bitcoin ETFs to $158 billion in total net assets. We know this guy is $4,225 of those Bitcoin and a half a billion of those inflows from last week are a seller who's never stopping. But like, it is just that easy, I think, James.

You just look and you say, Bitcoin treasury companies are buying this much. ETFs are buying this much. We know other platforms are coming online. There's just not that many sellers. That will equalize at some point, but this is more obvious than it should be.

Yeah, and I agree with you, Scott, and in my quick and dirty kind of review of what's happened the last few days this morning, because it's still early out here, obviously. Just exactly what you said. Look, we've got massive buying from treasury companies. Now, remember though, a lot of that is, a certain portion of that, in my opinion, is a reallocation out of Bitcoin spot and into these companies. Some people selling some of their spot

and buying these companies. Or to be accurate, don't they just send their Bitcoin in to seed that fund effectively, and that's converted to shares of the new publicly traded company at a multiple? Some and we've done that in the Bitcoin Opportunity Fund for tax advantages, you know, that's one thing you could do. But there's been a lot of talk about and I shared the screen so maybe you can pull this up, Scott,

and I've got a couple of charts that I looked at this morning. So obviously, yesterday and you can see over the last 24 hours where these green lines here, these are the shorts just getting wrecked, just absolutely wiped out. And so you can see there were a lot of shorts there and they were liquidated over the last day and a half.

And then this is from James Check, Check On Chain, and it just verifies that. You can see the liquidation volumes there, right? So that's an obvious thing. Here's a few things. We've got the demand from the Treasury companies. You've got the shorts that were sitting on top of it. It rips through this 110 to 120 price on not a lot of volume.

That's one thing that does concern me. It just was not a lot of volume. And so you have to remember that when you have an air pocket like that, and actually James Check talked about this in his newsletter this morning on Check On Chain. I really like his stuff. And thanks, James, in advance for, or in arrears, for letting me share your charts.

But look, there's an air pocket there. So just be aware of that. If you're trading around this thing, then that's, that's something to be aware of. I'm not trading around it. I don't care where long this, for the long haul. But that's something concerning me is the lack of volume at this, in this move. is the lack of volume at this in this move. But going back to the story, what you were talking about, Scott is, yeah, we do have and what you were saying, Dave, is some older holders have been selling. That's where the supply has been coming from. You can see here in this blue and purple, that's 7 to 10 plus years of volume that that was selling that's a huge amount there you saw it back here in this move up to 100 and you saw it here in this latest move you know or actually this this latest consolidation at 107 ish, 100 to 107. And those are old coins being sold.

And that was to fund lifestyles, in my opinion. People are, they've held out these things from a thousand to a hundred thousand. You're up a hundred X. Of course you're gonna take some profits on that. And you're gonna go buy your castle and your yachts and your airplanes or whatever you're going to do with it. There's massive wealth that was created there. And then finally you've got the Bitcoin ETF inflows which is what you were talking about Scott. It's

relentless. The inflows are relentless. So you've got all that put together. At some point the selling dries up, the shorts get wrecked, and the buying continues. And it wasn't that there was a surge of demand this weekend. It was that there was a, you know, the liquidity dried up. There was just, there was no availability. So people talk about, you know, when the selling, when the supply ceases, this thing's going to rip. And that's exactly what happened this weekend.

You had an air pocket, not a lot of selling demand and the shorts got taken out and here we are. So, and that's kind of just a, just a trading analysis of what's happened the last few days. Yeah. I think that that all makes a ton of sense. Like I said, this is one of the easier ones to break down. You know, a lot of times like what the hell happened? Sure, you could just see how many people are buying it.

I had an interesting sort of philosophical conversation with Yago on Thursday about the long-term sellers. We agreed that a lot of it was lifestyle chips, but in his opinion, since he was there since 2011 and knows a lot of these guys, he also thinks that a lot of it was lifestyle chips. But in his opinion, since he was there since 2011 and knows a lot of these guys, he also thinks that a lot of them are very frustrated with what Bitcoin has become. Because the people who hold 50, 60, 100,000 Bitcoin from 2010, 2011 bought it to rage against the machine and a hedge against the government. And because they never wanted Wall Street and the United States and other governments to get involved and

they're basically just like I Don't care anymore. I got billions of dollars here sitting here and Bitcoin isn't what I intended it to be anymore Yeah, we gotta go back to the the general macro picture, you know one of the main realities of the overhang of all the market is that you've got relentless deficit spending at the same time that, as Mike pointed out, you've got the President of the United States in a public battle with the head of the U.S. Central Bank. I mean, this is just insane. So how are they, are they separate or not? Is it an independent arm or isn't it? Of course, we all know it's not, you know, but it's, they're not even keeping up that pretense anymore. So the yields are going up, and gold is going up, and Bitcoin is going up. I know, Mike, you keep saying it's a risk asset. It has acted as a risk asset for a very long time. I think every single dollar that Bitcoin goes up,

people realize that it's a risk off asset. At some point, it becomes that. It is not that yet. I'm not going to claim that it is that yet. I mean, structurally it is, but perception wise, it's not in the market. And so it's still that you're still going to have that yin and yang on this. And people have to understand that. So when you have this macro overdraw, which, you know, this,

this, it's an overhang of the whole market that you've got this relentless deficit spending. And I posted something about it last week. Yeah, we were refilling the TGA, the general account, because we drained it, because we didn't have a debt ceiling. Now we've got a new debt ceiling. Boom, $300 or $400 billion spent in a nanosecond, you know. And so people have to, they're realizing that this is not going to stop. We're going to continue somehow creating liquidity in the markets. Why? Because we have to. We have to. It's just got to continue. And I know, and this is probably where, you know, we differ the most on, on the macro picture. Mike and I differ the most on this, is that Mike believes we learned from our lessons. And I don't believe that we have learned from our lessons. I think that the lesson is there. I want Mike's opinion on that.

But there's no way to stop that. You're not gonna take the patient off life support. You're just not going to do it. Yeah, I want Mike's opinion on that, the big, beautiful bill, obviously. We've talked about this a bit, but Mike's been saying that we've learned the lessons of the past, as James said,

that we will never go back to Zerp and QE. Elon Musk seems to disagree, and the big beautiful bill structurally seems to disagree. Now the rhetoric is we're going to grow ourselves out of it, and who cares about cutting spending? That doesn't matter, right? So Mike, seeing that, does that at least concern you about inflation or money printing or any of these things and the rhetoric about Powell? Because if Powell actually goes, we get a puppet who just cuts rates, right? Yeah, so Powell's gone in 10 months anyhow.

So I don't understand why he would leave. Yeah, I just know it's what's again. So it's a key thing about being a strategist. Love and hate. I mean, just got to see what is this? What is Trump's actions matter for market? So I think it's kind of silly stage that they're using this so he's gone in ten months And I fully expect by the time we get the new chairman the market will be calling for cuts anyhow, it'll have to because

Number one thing is the stock market going down Otherwise, there's no reason to cut if he cuts with stock are going up like this It's just gonna create a worse situation than it did in 29 in 1989 in Japan. But that's a question of time. The key thing is now we're into the macro, it's July, it's the time of year everything's going up. I mean, stock market always goes up in July. Not always, but last time it went down was 2014.

And I'd like to point out crypto, Bitcoin, crypto is a very highly correlated stock market. So let's put ourselves in an end of the year basis basis if we end the year now where we are now the best performing major Mock macro commodity is us based copper for what tariffs? Copper base in the rest world is barely up a little bit There's Bitcoin up about 20 extra right now at this at we speak 30% in the air and there's gold up 28% in the year How we end the yes of the year to me is what's gonna matter most

and might really flip my macro narratives. And my picture, my outlook at the beginning of the year was this is gonna be a down year for the stock market. Obviously, we've only had a mere blip of that and we've all assumed that we're never gonna have recessions again, the stock market's never going down, Bitcoin's never going down, there'll be fine. Then there's your trade.

It's already priced in, it's wonderful. The trade is, what's the optionality here? Let's see if we end the year with the S&P 500 up only 2%, actually down. That's a massive trade that I think's worth playing for and what's the catalyst for it? We'll see. Yeah, preparing for you.

And I agree, Mike, you have to prepare for that, which is why we do have a layer of options in our portfolio to account for that, because that is a problem. That's a possibility. Well, so that's my point is if we trigger that, if we do that by linear, this is very similar to a 2008 situation. The big difference is back then when this thing started, stock market to GDP was a fraction of what it was now. It's like 1.2 times, versus the rest of the world is 15%.

Now we have almost a 50% premium versus the rest of the world's GDP. That's my point is the only thing that matters now when people say, oh, inflation's okay, stock market, economy's okay, that's all irrelevant. All that matters now when you're two times GDP is the stock market, market has to go up. So that's my point is from the end of the year,

I'd look at things that are happening right now. This is actually a meh year for certainly for cryptos, Bloomberg Gouch, crypto index is maybe up a percent than the year with the stock market up 7%, that's not good. So the trade I'm really expecting is, and then you look at also like broad commodities, here's one thing that's also shifted before and the last like since 2011 that bottom US stock market drove the dollar Higher as it traded out versus the rest or what's happening this year?

Our dollar index is down 8% of the year. So this could be a whole faint a hope It's not but I just it's be wonderful if we can end anywhere near here or higher and risk assets in the year The big risk is to tilt lower and that's where I think the risks are kicking in with terrorists People are way misunderstanding our equity strategy is getting what this is going to do for earnings and what's due for You know people have to face those spending costs. So I I look at it is um right now it's wonderful and the those gold and long bombs are still doing pretty well on the year despite this massive wonderful situation just imagine if that stock market ends up unchanged in a year that's my point is we're all priced for perfection and so i'll end with this the key thing

that really triggered my technical bearishness was i love watching ethereum i've been watching it forever when it broke down through 3000 i said oh it's going to go to 2000 and then it tripped me triggered my technical bearishness was I love watching Ethereum. I've been watching it forever. When it broke down through 3000, I said, oh, it's going to go to 2000. And then it tripped me up when it spent a good month below 2000. I got two bearish at the lows and course. Now we're back at 3000. What are you supposed to do? It's July. To be fair on that one, you said it's 2000. What stops it from going much lower, even approaching 1000? It got into 1300s. I mean, those are rounding errors.

You were actually right on that. That's correct. No, back in 3000, I look at it as an option-orientated trader. I'm like, yeah, I'll test some negative deltas here. So just a couple of things. First of all, the tariffs, those are the big, beautiful threat. That's what those are. You know, and I just, Trump uses his rhetoric, you've seen this for, you saw this a whole term for four years, you've seen it now, again, for another six months so, that he just, he wields this huge sword of terror, so he's

gonna, he's gonna keep swinging it around. I don't know what we're gonna get out of it as a country. I don't know what he's gonna get out of it as a president. It's, it's unclear. And so that's, that there, Mike, is more uncertainty to me to me, than a threat of, you know, serious damage to the economic cycle. That's, that's my opinion on that. That's No. 1. No. 2, the problem with the learning part, we learned our lessons of 1998, 2001, 2008, 2020. we didn't learn our lesson, because every time that we go through one of these, it gets worse. And the printing gets, the printing is larger. And the liquidity that's needed, that's necessary to keep the patient on life support is more. You need more oxygen, you need more saline, you need more meds, you need more drugs, you know, we got to keep the thing going. And so the issue isn't that we, that we learned our lesson. The problem with that statement, and this is why, this is why I'm on the other side of this with you, is I, as as an optimist, I would hope we've learned our lesson. But I don't think we have, because it's not, there's no we. There is no we in the United States government except a bunch of people who are

doing exactly what they need to do to get reelected. And that is all that they are concerned about. And they're, so the incentives don't match what the outcome should be. The incentives match what is the outcome is going to be, which is they're going to do whatever they need to do to protect their own constituents and make sure that they have liquidity, they have cover, they have, you know, regulatory cover in order to do whatever they need to do as businesses and people in order to keep funding their campaigns in order to get them reelected. That's all they care about. And he could drive. I guess you can see why Elon is so mad, huh?

What's that? I guess you can see why Musk is so angry. Exactly. And that's all. How much time of his life did he waste thinking that they were serious about cuts and austerity and fiscal responsibility? It's not wasted Scott.

A lot of what was done is incredibly important. Let's go back to principles, first principles. Now, someone on this show who tends to like to wear an orange shirt a lot made some statements earlier this year. Let's revisit them. I said, this is not about cutting. Every time Mike said we're going to austerity,

I look like I had just sucked a lemon and I basically said, you're out of your mind that we're not about cutting. Every time Mike said we're going to austerity, I looked like I had just sucked a lemon and I basically said you're out of your mind that we're not going to cut. But what this is about is cutting bureaucracy and cutting regulations and fomenting growth. economy in 2015, but they carry a shit ton about the real economy in 2016, because that's when the midterms are, not 20, 20, 16, 2025 versus 2026. They carry a ton about the economy as we go into the midterms. And so everything is setting up for that. None of that has changed. We know that there are a few misconceptions in the economy. The one lesson we learned and we did learn it, I mean, you know,, I mean, some of us knew it was a mistake at the time, was what happened in the pandemic was a double dose of disaster. We had three decades of a policy that was bipartisan,

not Republican versus Democrat, both parties of below market interest rates coupled with regulation to favor whichever industries are favored by the administration. market interest rates coupled with regulation to favor whichever industries are favored by the administration. The goal was to promote inflation in assets and at the same time, mute inflation to the consumer. And by and large, it was pretty successful because of the march of technology.

With AI, we have the ability to keep that going. So every time we talk about inflation, I wanna make the point and I do this every week, but I think it's really important to understand it this week because I wanna go talk about Powell and I wanna talk about the Federal Reserve. I wanna talk about how so many mainstream economists literally have their heads up their asses because they do.

Because what you have is inflation is a monetary phenomenon and asset inflation, which you know, you get Tucker Carlson talking about and Tucker Carlson, I'm not sure he could spell economics. Honestly, you know, while he's a great, you know, he's funny, but he's not very smart on this or he plays an idiot on TV. I don't really know which it is. Maybe he's a brilliant guy who understands stuff, but the words out of his mouth make no sense. The reason housing is not affordable is we turned it into an investment. And all investments, I don't care if it's a stock market that's at two times GDP, housing that's at levels of unaffordability, it's all the same thing. It's called monetary inflation. You print more, it has to go someplace. And when it goes into assets, the people who are sitting in DC are happy. They act like they're kids who just got their happy meals. It's like great, assets went up, this is wonderful, people are gonna vote for me. And at the same time, when assets go up, what does that mean? That means you can invest more in automation, that means you can invest

more in outsourcing, you can invest more in the things that keep the consumer inflation down. Now, what was the mistake we learned? Don't give money directly to the people, especially not people who don't work. How about $1,000 to every baby born in the United States? Yeah, babies, that's different because that you're trying- Because they don't go gamble it away.

First of all, they don't go gamble it away. But second of all, and anyone who's ever had a kid and you have kids, Scott, so you know this, you know how expensive they are. I mean, look, if your economic policy is designed to incentivize behavior and it's behavior you want, such as, you know, replacing, replenishing our birth rates so we don't go down the same rabbit hole

that Japan went down. And that's the biggest single difference in the United States and Japan is we still haven't quite gotten there, but we are definitely on the risk of it. Elon Musk says it is the most existential risk is falling birth rates. So let's call it, but anyway, that's that example.

My point is the tilt the government is doing, that if you go down, the one thing about this cabinet, you have to say is they are all marching to the same drummer. Now, did this idea originate in Trump's head, in Besant's head, in JD Vance's head? I don't know who's had it originated in, but all of them are on the same page,

which is growth at all costs, and we're gonna channel inflation into assets. And so now ask yourself, what's one of the largest assets that are beneficiaries? I'm going to say something that's going to make Mike smile. I think he's going to be right on the long bond. And I think he's going to be wrong on the long bond direction off of the cuts.

I think rates are going to come down massively. I think the long bond is going to come down. Why? Because they want money there and it's going to go there for that reason. Remember the dollar is a f money there, and it's going to go there for that reason. Remember, the dollar is a fiat currency, but it is the strongest fiat currency of the lot. And just watch what's happening.

I mean, Mike's right. I mean, our long yield is what, 200 basis points over the average of everybody else? Why? Why should it be? It is because we have artificially tight policies. We had 30 years of interest rates by most calculations that were negative, real rates.

And under Powell, we now have rates of you, compared to true inflation, our real interest rates are really, really high. If true inflation is right and the consumer inflation now, of course, if you use asset inflation, well, no, it's not like that. That's true inflation. And when you look at the entirety of inflation numbers,

yeah, that's right. And so so the point being, you know, why does this matter? Well, it matters for two reasons. First, they don't want the deficit to be high and interest payments are a large, a huge part of the deficit right now. They want to bring that down. They do want to cut some spending, they want to cut where they want to cut. That's the whole idea of rescissions. But what they really want to do is cut spending that decreases and suppresses growth. And so that's what's going on here. Now, will Powell be stay the course? Will he wait for his entire term? I'd say no fucking way if I bet on poly market. I'd be happy to bet I don't know if there's a contract that says Powell steps down before the end of his term why he's Because it's pain. I mean how many times have you let me ask you this Scott? I know I listen I know I think I think we're all married How many times have you done something you didn't wanna do

because you just couldn't take being nagged anymore? How, and by the way, I'm sure my wife feels the same way about me nagging her. It's the same thing. At a certain point, when you're getting yelled at day after day after day, it's diminishing returns to stay. The entire world can't see our wives yelling at us and see us capitulate.

There's a difference between private capitulation of marriage, which you would imply that maybe he'll just stick it out. The hammer they're going to use, I called it a few weeks ago. Just watch it play out. They're going to use it. It's now in cut. They know he now has hatchet people doing it and Senator Lemus is doing it. Others are doing it. They're going to push him. He's not going to stay because they're

going to make it too damn uncomfortable for him to stay. And it's unfortunate because honestly, he shouldn't be lowering rates. Honestly, there is you can you can make an argument you can make arguments on both sides that I actually, I used to be on that side of the argument, the more that I see it, I actually think that that's not true. But it doesn't matter. The fact is, I think he was a steadying influence during

periods of very difficult times. And I think that, you know, that the problem here is if the legacy of Powell's federal reserve ship is a food fight with the administration that goes on for a huge amount of time, it tarnishes his legacy. And I think people are gonna privately tell him that because his legacy right now, whether you love him, hate him, hate the Fed,

and there's all sorts of reasons. Soft landing is his legacy right now, actually. I think his legacy is pretty good. I think that that matters. You can talk about regimes as much as you want. Our job on this show is to get an idea of where the macro is going. For me, where the macro is going is lower rates,

not so much because of what it does for the wealth effect, which is what Powell's concerned about, what Mike is talking about. Mike talks about the stock market. Why does Mike say the stock market has to go down before they lower rates? The answer is because the argument is if the stock market goes up it drives aggregate demand and translates to consumer inflation. I To use your expression Mike. I'd like to see the data on that. Where's the beef? consumer inflation lagged asset inflation for 30 plus years, I don't see it. And that is the conventional economic policy that Powell's using his playbook from.

And frankly, if you're gonna use a playbook that has been consistently wrong for 30 years, maybe you should get a new playbook. And that is what people are talking about. This isn't modern monetary theory. They understand they need to get the deficit down. They do, they get it. They need to grow to get the deficit down. They do they get it They need to grow their way out of it, but they they do understand it

but if You're going to have pure asset inflation a lot of that asset price doesn't go into aggregate demand And even if it does where does it go? It certainly isn't driving up base commodities It certainly isn't driving up the thing that the average person cares about just remember that Now, you know, I hate to go in these economic tangents because they get very complicated Commodities it certainly isn't driving up the thing that the average person cares about just remember that now You know, I hate to go in these economic tangents because they get very complicated There have been so many other topics we've touched upon but it doesn't seem like anybody cares about note There's nobody who has any vested interest in stock market going down

There are there is huge vested interest in Bitcoin going up among the crew that's running this government There is vested interest in driving up growth rates. And what does growth rates get to come from? It means encouraging technology. It means encouraging production. Like, you know, I was talking to someone this past week. I had dinner with somebody who knows someone who was very prominent in the previous administration who Mike's often quoted.

I don't want to go with who, but let's just say, you know, firsthand information, who contrary to opinions and books Is more or less on board with a lot of what's going on in this administration? What he said is watch copper mines watch rip mines getting reopened all of this is about reopening mines in Nevada and the southwest and And he said this to me three days ago, and I opened the journal this morning when I didn't open the journal I looked online in the journal and what do we see? Headlines. The headline, paper journals, please give me a break. But I mean, who wants ink on their hands? But anyway, what's one of the first

stories I read? Reopening of copper mines. There you go. That's what this is about. That is what this stuff is about. All of these things, everyone just makes assumptions that, oh, this is just, you know, a madman swinging a hammer. Well, half the country thinks that because that's what the media says. The other half of the country says, well, he's our madman. We don't care if he swings the hammer. And then there's people who actually have their eyes open. And they watch it. There's method to the madness. When you have a team, this administration is much more like a football team than it is a baseball team. Baseball

team, individual players come up and hit, yeah, they have to work together a bit, but football teams have to work as a unit. I don't care how good you individuals are, if you don't work as a team, you lose. This administration actually is working as a team, weirdly. And I don't wanna go down the Epstein rabbit hole because that may be the only crack in that

and there's constituencies and reasons for it. But they economically all want the same thing and one of the things they want is to be able to acquire bitcoin for the government and then see a 10x and i don't like betting you know they all don't fight the fed don't fight people with power who more power than you and so why fight it that's really that's really an issue and it matters no it's not fight the Fed. They want the Fed on their side there. They want to co-opt the Fed. It's just the way things are. And if you look at it, gold and Bitcoin will be correlated at some point very tightly, but

they are not correlated really tightly now because Bitcoin can move because it can eat into gold. Gold went from 6% at its bottom of what I'll call monetary aggregates, we'll call central bank reserves to 15% now. They were 40% in 1971. And before that, in the 40s, they were 80%. And so there's a lot of room for gold to continue to go up and a lot of room for Bitcoin to jump into that breach. And that's the real thing about Bitcoin. Now, when it comes to crypto, and it comes to technology, is that really just a question of beta to the stock market and beta to technology untethered by earnings? Yeah, I think it is. And so it moves, you know, I made this point and people gave me all sorts of shit. I gave a quote in a Forbes article a couple of weeks ago.

I said, they were asking about XRP price. They were talking about the court case. I said, the court case don't mean shit. What matters is XRP is beta to Bitcoin. And Bitcoin's gone up and guess what? XRP has done exactly what I said it would do. It's beta to Bitcoin was high. It's gone up and guess what? XRP has done exactly what I said it would do. It's beta to Bitcoin was high, it's gone up more. Bitcoin plateaus, Bitcoin drops, etc.

There you go, Mike. I teed you up with so many things. Yes, quite the way. I listened for a long time. Let's create a little discourse just to get us fire each other up. But the problem really from my view of Paul resigning is as bad as equal to Trump pulling back on tariffs significantly with the stock market going up. It's very unlikely he's gonna resign, partly because he knows he has the whole global legacy and future in his favor. I mean, for example, when Trump first started pushing back

on him in the first administration, I think it was Greenspan sent him a pair of air mugs. So this, he has the whole and destiny in his favor. The law was set up for him to be a check to Trump. If Trump finds something trumped up, fine, that's his nature, I think power will resist. So let's go there. Also let's point out what's really happening in the macro the second largest economy in the planet

Despite the most massive monetary stimulus in history is deflating rapidly minus 3.6 ppi That's just the latest measure housing. We know is it's mean we've seen this before I lived I guess I'm jaded I started business in 88 and I saw how great Japan was and then it collapsed. It's happening in China and the rest of the world's suffering to that. Now they're all facing tariffs. So we have a hundred year events all kicking in and here's the risk.

Trump could end up, if he's lucky, I think, on Mount Rushmore, or could very seriously end up like Herbert Hoover, the last president who was elected with the stock market this expensive. But it's nowhere near expensive if you add in housing. This is the most expensive in history, and how do we get here? By all the policies you pointed out, at some point you have to reach an endgame.

That's my point is, at the beginning here, I still thought this year was gonna be the endgame. So far it looks less likely. I'll wait till we see how it looks like by the end of the year. Should kick in in a few months, and the key thing that's been emboldening me all along is you look at the ratio of gold versus yesterday 500 you take gold divided by beta It's been picking up for it's actually outperforming Beta now the stock market total return for almost four years at the same time You look at the see the 200 day moving average is heading higher in that ratio You look at the 200 day moving average of the VIX, at bottom it stalled right below 20%. Right now 20% VIX or 17% VIX, July, it's wonderful.

If that starts just ticking up a little bit, the whole thing tumbles and all we do is follow the lessons of history of Japan, what's happening in China, and what's happening in the past. And that's why is where such a wonderful inflection point, the last thing you wanna do is load up overweight risk assets that have a three times beta in the stock market is very expensive than that Bitcoin. But again, remember, what's all tilt back to, we all, we tilt back what happened with Michael Saylor.

Why are some of these treasury companies buying Bitcoin? Because why did Michael Saylor do it? Because his business had no more opportunity. He was being technology out. Jeff Booth pointed it out. Technology is moving so fast, it's so deflationary. So if your business, you see, it's better to buy a risk asset like that. How is history going to judge this?

I look at this as great. By the end of the year, I think history is just going to start saying, yeah, you probably are supposed to look at long bonds at 5% in gold rather than Bitcoin above 100,000. I don't think that's fair. Michael Saylor bought Bitcoin initially because he was truly orange-pilled and viewed it as a hedge against his cash position, not because he had a failing business.

I think he's continued to buy Bitcoin maybe more for reasons like you laid out, but I talked to that guy two, three times in the first three or four months that he bought Bitcoin, and you could not find someone who is more hardcore there for the right reasons and deeply understood why he was buying the asset. So I think we could both be right.

I just don't think that he jumped into Bitcoin because he looked at his five yachts and said, wow, my life is failing, I'm on the way down. I don't mean his life, no, that's the thing, the business. The micro strategy was still a Bible business, you know, but yes, I mean, you know. Yeah, well, he's competing amongst sharks. Again, it's not putting against Mike. I remember I got to interview him.

I got really bullish. I was really bullish around 10,000. But once you go up 10X and you double down, the lessons of history usually aren't good. Hopefully it's different this time. Maybe we'll get lucky. I just, good luck. Right, James?

Yeah, well, you know, you've seen this movie before, we all have, where you, if you do roll into a recession, what happens to your deficit? It blows out by somewhere between 10 and 25%, you know? And it's already been- What happened to your bond yield? What's that? It blows out by somewhere between 10 and 25%. What happened to your bond yields? What's that? It's insignificant for bond yields.

That's when it becomes the 10, for bond yields becomes deflation. That's my point is I just learned this in a trading piece. Deficits fuel bond rallies often times. Right, but my whole point is that the whole system is trapped. It's not just this administration. It's not the Central Bank. It's not US. It's not China. It's the whole system is trapped. Why? Because the entire system runs on liquidity. It needs more liquidity. It must have it. It must have it. And if we go into a deflationary trend where the entire world deflates, Mike, it collapses on itself. And they know that. They can't have it. So there's going to be nobody to buy that 10-year at some points. That 10-year will, the yields will come down, the yields will come down, the yields come down, and then suddenly they will absolutely blow up. Why? Because

there will be no, you will, you will have, you will have a, an auction that goes no bid. And, you know, with you, if you don't have enough buyers for an auction, it's, it's, that's it. The game's over. And so they will not allow that to happen. How do they not allow that to happen? By printing more money and stepping into the market themselves. They will, they will start doing yield curve control either through an acronym or just outright because they have to. There's just, the math doesn't work.

That's the problem we're facing. This time is different. It's not different. This time is just a little bit more than last time, which was a little bit more than the other, the time before, which is a little bit more than the time before that. And you know, it all started with just this simple statement from Greenspan in 1987 that, Don't worry, we have the market. And it, and it reversed, it reversed that sell-off in Black Monday. That was the, that's what started all of it. And it's just gotten worse and compounded. Each event, each 100-year event that we've seen, and we've seen a lot of them, which is just insane,

because these are all 100-year events. You know, the crash of 87, the 1998 long-term capital management crisis, the 1999-2000 tech bubble, you know, 2001, we haven't even talked about 9-11, then you've got 2008, then you've got 2020. These are 100-year events that happen every 5 to 7 years. This is insane. So what do you think will happen in the next 100-year event? We haven't even talked about Black Swans, so you can't have it. You've got gotta have prints. You must print more money because the entire world operates on liquidity. And it's because of fiat. Mike, you were saying something before. I don't wanna talk over you.

Well, I don't dispute we're going to print. That's my point. They're printing massively in China because significant deflation, that's a hundred year event and the ten-year yields are 1.67. I'm not being complicated. I expect similar in this country and there's number one catalysts is everything's being elevated by the stock market. The stock market has to stay up. Once it just drops a little bit and stays down, it's over. Of course, maybe the lessons of history, only two

examples of this expensive 1929 us 1989 maybe we can look back and say it's different I can't wait to write that book, but I suspect my book will say it wasn't different So so I'm reading some of the comments and I have to agree because it's now the time so You know, mr. Pibbie writes it's the you know Hey, he has long tail of cryptos and Bitcoin trains as an option on its own adoption on his bingo card and he's feeling lucky. But that's actually the point.

If we keep going down the road of more and more obvious, you know, debt, you know, junkiness for the economy and every print becomes less and less, all the people buying Bitcoin today, you have to look at the motivations and why is it? It's the smart money. The people who are buying it are buying it because they say, wait a minute, this stuff is going to get, there needs to be a store of value. I want to buy the one that when it becomes a store of value will be worth X, where X is 10 X or more of where it is today. And so it's easier to deal with than gold. Gold is a good store value as well. Obviously, it's been a tremendous store value for thousands of years, but Bitcoin is superior

in pretty much every single way. And so the point is, is that the likelihood of that option cashing in is going up. All of this news makes it go up. I mean, you know, I sit on spaces sometimes with people who are on the opposite side of this, who are like, you know, do-mers in a sense, you know, like, oh, you got to end the Federal Reserve, you got to stop this, we got to go to full sound money. And what people don't think about is, you know, it's sort of like the it's an almost perfect analogy, you rarely get analogies that are this perfect. But the economy is like a heroin addict. And you don't just cut off a heroin addict and go cold turkey, or they die. Right? You know, the moral equivalent

of our economy, if we just said, Okay, no more debt, we're gonna done, we're gonna, we're gonna go austere and everything else. I mean, the you'd have a revolt, there'd be, you know, the fourth turning, you know, it would be it would be really nasty. It'd be catastrophic. And that kind of catastrophe, neither party is interested in that. The only person who's interested in catastrophe is the guy who's going to be the new mayor of New York in all likelihood because of all the infighting.

But that catastrophe, because it's localized, could go four to eight years, and then the people gain sense, sort of like what happened in San Francisco. But this sort of thing probably won't happen. So my thesis, Mike, and yours aren't all that different. If you're right, and we look like we're gonna be on the edge of the disinflationary, or not disinflation, deflationary abyss in consumer prices or investments,

they're not gonna let that happen. They're gonna do everything they can. Now, maybe they'll fail. Maybe they'll cause a hyperinflationary collapse. Maybe we'll go all full Weimar. I don't think that's likely, but that's the real downside. And if that downside happens, then what do you wanna be in? Well, if you were in gold back in those days in Germany,

you were the only ones who were fine. You're in Bitcoin, the same thing, unless we lose our electric grid. So that's really the issue. The issue is where do things go if this all collapses? And I continue to point out that as, you know, when you have this amount of debt, that denominator is why our assets at GDP are so high.

It's because of the denominator. And yes, I think you're absolutely 100% right when you say we should look at the S&P and gold terms. It's still expensive but much more reasonable. But let's say gold goes to 5,000 and the S&P stays where it is or goes up another 15 or 20%. What would have happened? What would have happened is the denominator corrected. Right? You know, it's not dollars as a denominator. We're using them because we have because we get huge benefit for using them. But the denominator is is moving. Right? Well, there are more dollars and every day there's more dollars. That's really the issue. And the same is going on in China. Right? You know, they're printing and printing. But you know, what are they going to do? I mean, they built so much stuff that isn't used. So much mal investment, we call it mal

investment, because, you know, it's the same thing. It's like, if you build stuff, hoping people will use it, and they sit as zombies, you don't get you get marginal diminishing returns out of what you build. That's what happened there. And they're paying that price, by the way, the same thing happened in Japan, only in Japan, they didn't have anything close to the population to be able to to pull it off. So we obviously only have four minutes left, sadly, but

there's something we have to talk about before we go, which is that this is crypto week, stable coin bill points to pass as house kicks off crypto week. The Republicans obviously have made this a priority to get the genius act done, but also generally to push forward a bunch of crypto legislation. And we just have to laugh that that means Maxine Waters has to launch Anti Crypto Corruption Week, to fight against crypto week. The Anti Crypto Army is still alive, I won't say alive and well.

But the irony of the way our government approaches this asset class are probably everything. How many times have we seen this week the photo of Sam Bankman Fried was armed around Maxine Waters as the dunk response to this? But I guess we don't need to unpack that too deeply, but we can just say, and I know Dave, you have strong opinions on that. We can just say or discuss whether this is a catalyst for future price or whether this is one of the reasons that we've been seeing price rise. It's a big week if we actually

finally get stable coin legislation and other things pushing forward. Once you have stable coin legislation, then companies will be able to offer payments that are cheaper, more efficient and better than what people have today. So imagine Zelle and Venmo uncapped incredibly cheaply. They can offer investment platforms. Coinbase will be able to offer it. Kraken will be able to offer it. That's why Kraken is going for the banking license.

They will be able to offer payment systems and whatnot That will allow people to hold very little money in a what in an account and call it a checking account if you have to have like the anachronism but in a payments account and Sweep it into Bitcoin or sweep it into other tokenized assets The banks the big banks understand this perfectly well. Hell, BlackRock with BUIDL understands it perfectly well. Well, here's what's amazing about it. Yeah, the first principle of it is that the stable coins by US treasuries. So you're effectively using the stable coin as currency and bypassing the dollar and just saying, you know what,

we're going to be able to instead of having money parked in dollars, we're going to have money parked in treasury. It's like being able to spend your treasuries directly rather than... Correct. You're trading treasurily. More buyers of treasuries. More buyers of treasuries. Why?

Because they need more buyers of treasuries. They all know this. This is not a secret. We talked about it on the Hill. Almost two years ago, we talked about the net. And to give credit, Mr. McGlone talking about crypto dollars in probably the first macro Monday, you made the point that the product market fit in crypto dollars was probably the most

important people were going to see it. So that is a big deal. But it is also a big deal that there's $6 trillion that is likely to move into yield bearing assets and investments, one of which will be Bitcoin, some of which will just be yield bearing. And there's probably a lot more than that in money market funds that could unlock a lot.

There will be a lot of liquidity in stable coins. It is much larger than people realize. It is transformational, but it doesn't happen tomorrow. So if you're asking yourself, is this why crypto is rallying today? Maybe, but we're an order of math. We're a zero off in terms of it. It's sort of like I pointed out this, you know, the Bitcoin ETFs. Remember when Galaxy came out with that report and they said that we'd be 15 billion in the first six months and 27 billion in the first year, in the first year to 18 months.

And people laughed at them saying they were too aggressive and turned out that they were underestimating what happened by three quarters. Every over aggressive estimate was underestimated. Massive. I'd say the same thing is true with stable coins. And we're not even gonna talk about clarity, what that would do for the market.

Now, I think clarity for the market is a much more nuanced conversation and deserves conversation that we'll talk about when it comes up. So I don't want to do it. The stablecoin bill is undeniably bullish for the entire ecosystem, and it's undeniably bullish for treasuries. It's one of the reasons I think that Mike's going to ultimately be right on the treasuries, which I disagree with him at the time, but the more I think about it, I think that you're going to end up being right. And that's been bullish for the dollar because more buyers of treasuries across the world are buying dollars. That's

right. It just means the dollar is replacing, I mean, if you wonder why the ECB is what they are, I mean, they realize that the euro is getting marginalized in favor of the dollar for spending. It's just fact. They're not a big fan of it, but it is what it is. I think you can see a lot of that. It's so delightful to see the things we discussed when the first Trump administration really pushed back on this awesome technology. I remember when Sy Sheffield came on with Laura Shin, was it 2019? He's with Visa. They said, yeah, we're using stable coins. I'm like, why wouldn't you? This technology is awesome. You can transmit, transact, and close out your dollar balances instantly, privately.

And then world has gone for the dollar through this organic technology. So this is a key thing that's kept me from the very beginning. I remember 2018 pointing this out when there was only $2 billion to stable coins. Now we're about 250. It's the most enduring trend.

And the key thing is, what are they? It's a tokenization of the dollar. What's next? The tokenization of everything. It's gonna think of what's gonna bring real world assets on chain and people are gonna look at things like Dogecoin and say, yeah, short that, buy something where I can yield something decently

and 10 times the leverage on the low value stuff that's yielding something and short the stuff that's just BS. But to me, this is also the key thing I also remember. I really enjoyed writing years ago when people called Bitcoin peer-to-peer cash Satoshi Nakamoto. It's not. It's digital gold. And this to me is proving that why would you bother the trends to pay for Bitcoin, pay for anything with Bitcoin? You don't pay for it with gold unless And this to me is proving that why would you bother the trends to pay for Bitcoin, pay for anything with Bitcoin?

You don't pay for it with gold unless you have to. You put that aside and hold it as an investment and then use dollars. And to me, this is accelerating that process of digital gold. I get it. But there's times a key thing I also like to end with is Bitcoin is still clearly a risk on asset. It's up, the stock market's up, got it. Gold is typically more of a risk of down off acid That's why everything's kind of discombobulated this year. Let's see how things change by then this year should be more clarity I just hope it's not that negative clarity. I'm the gloom has been talking about But I enjoyed that in the in the Bloomberg we have these chats one chat they started calling me McGloom last year now They called me McGold. I'm like, yeah, I'll take that rather than getting Bitcoin long.

I like Mcgold. I lost my connection there for a second. I like Mcgold. We can go forward with that. We'll go forward with that one. Yeah. The only point in that rant that I actually disagree with is I think that I would generalize. If Elon makes Doge the payments mechanism and something inside X, that's what their bulls are having their hat on. I think you should switch your commentary to Farcoin, and then we're not going to argue with. The point though, that assets that have real value, that can generate real economic return to token owners will do well. I don't care whether they're securities or utility. It doesn't matter to me.

It's value and this rotation towards value and rotation to that will be very real over the next few years if these rules all happen. And I believe they will. And so that doesn't mean none of the tokens that are out there other than Bitcoin are going to zero. I am not a maxi. I do not believe that. I think that that's absolutely ridiculous. But does it mean that there are quite a few, in fact millions if you want to use your thing, if you count all the pump dot fund, which by the way, we can't ignore pump dot funds and you know what happened over the weekend.

I had that queued up too, but you know you just run out of things to talk about. We talked about the fact that this might be the harbinger for whether there's going to be good news for all coins or bad news. Well, this is why all coins. I think this is why there's a rally today. I think that's why there's a rally today. All the do-mers and gloomers in the crypto Twitter, they're saying, oh, all coins, he's a dead. Oh, there's no more money. Oh, everything is going into, you know, real world. It's like, well, yeah, but there's still those animal spirits are alive and well. And when they get woken up, stuff like that can happen. And pumped up fund

happens to be I don't know what the tokenomics are, because they're not available to the US. I didn't analyze it. I have no idea if you're holding, you know, if you're holding, you know, something that's completely worthless, or if you actually hold something that will give you a share of the profit of what the platform makes, I don't know. But the platform's undeniably profitable. And people like to gamble. It's like owning a piece of a casino. I mean, you know, Caesar's world, whatever, whatever you think of it, has value. I mean, maybe they overextended themselves with real estate, etc. So I'm not talking about the stock. I know they did that. I actually know a friend of mine helped put that original deal together that set them on that garden path. But the truth is that there's value. And that is what people are looking at in the alt season. And I'll double down on what I said last last week or two weeks ago, that most of the people in the crypto sphere invest don't really understand financial markets. They invest in, they see a thing, they say, I like this thing and they buy it.

As opposed to, I think this thing at this price makes sense because this other price is going to happen. Now that's not true with Bitcoiners, but it is absolutely true with a lot of altcoin investors. Now, there are many savvy altcoin investors, don't get me wrong, but there are quite a few people who are just follow the leader. And that's when't get me wrong. But there are quite a few people who are just follow the leader. And that's when things get really dangerous. And that's when, you know, the the sell when they're yelling, you got to sell, you know, you know, the stuff that Mike says, you have all these great quotes, I'm

not I don't want to I don't want to say it better. But that's when you have to listen to that. Because it and we're just not seeing it. I mean, retail really, this is the first weekend we've seen retail, we'll see if it continues. 10.06.06 we gotta go. I'll have 50 more topics. Pump fun would have been a good one. But we can get into that when it's worth a third.

You know, but I mean, guy, I tell you the best content ever when the four of us are all together and probably about twice as many people watching. So as nice as it is to have proxies for us, it's just never the same. So thank you guys as always for showing up. Thank you everybody for listening and hopefully it'll be all of us together moving into the future. Thank you gentlemen, Mike, Dave, James. See you next week. Bye. Let's go.