The Wolf Of All Streets - $330 Billion Into Bitcoin, Tokenized Dollars Are Coming! | Caitlin Long

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Caitlin Long has huge news! Join us to discover how Custodia Bank is revolutionizing the banking industry using blockchain and crypto. My friends Andrew Parish and Tillman Holloway from Arch Public are also here to share their valuable insights! Caitlin Long: https://x.com/CaitlinLong_ Discover Bitcoin Yield: www.ArchPublic.com Andrew Parish: https://twitter.com/AP_Abacus Tillman Holloway: https://twitter.com/texasol61 ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/ ►► Arch Public Discover Bitcoin Yield! 👉https://archpublic.com/ ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code '10OFF' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://x.com/scottmelker Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io/ Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c #Bitcoin #Crypto #Investments The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Bitcoin is likely to see $330 billion of corporate treasury inflows by 2029, according to Bernstein, definitely a topic worth discussing as we see Michael Saylor and strategy increase their buying and plans to buy into the future. And I think we all know that tokenized everything, including stablecoins and dollars, are coming. But now there's a bit of controversy as to whether we will actually see that legislation which we all thought was a layup coming this year. We want to talk about things like this we bring on Caitlin long, it's really easy, not that complicated. Tillman and Andrew and I will probably

just be quiet and ask her questions. I don't know, we'll see. But Caitlin absolutely leading the charge here custodial bank and the best person to give us an update on everything that's happening in this space. Let's go. What is up everybody? I'm Scott Melker also known as the wolf of all streets. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and hit that like button. Good morning, Caitlin, Andrew and good hillman. How are you? Morning. Good morning. We

were supposed to have the genius act the stable act all the act stable coins were coming and now all of a sudden it seems like the Elizabeth Warren camp is kind of digging in and could actually prevent that from happening. I mean, Caitlin, are we now at risk of literally not getting stable coin legislation? There is some risk. Yes. The Democrats have decided to make a lot of noise. And the word behind the curtain is it's all about the Trump family's involvement in crypto, and they're making a stand

against that. They're actually not far apart on the substantive parts of the bill. So this is interesting. Are they right in any way, shape or form here? Cause I had a conversation actually literally at a Formula One race with Chris Giancarlo, the former chairman of the CFTC two days ago. And he was saying, and I sort of agreed, he said, we

love that Trump has followed through on all of the deregulation and the SEC has backed off. But maybe it's not great that the family is so deeply involved in launching NFTs and meme points. Well, Senator Lema said the same thing. She said on NBC on Friday, the Trump family's making her job harder. And she's one of the people running the bill on the Senate floor.

So I'll leave it at that. I'll stay out of the political scrum. I've never endorsed anyone. It's, you know, I understand the difficult position. And I said at the time when Paul Atkins got nominated for the SEC, that that Trump mean token was going to create a challenge for him, because it was not likely to be something that the SEC was going to be comfortable with once he was in a position of leadership at the SEC.

And he hasn't said anything yet. They didn't really get him during the nomination hearing on the record on that, but you can just tell. It's uncomfortable for the people in this industry who have been champions in DC to have to deal with this. So, Andrew Tillman, I wonder if this is just them playing politics or then a legitimate concern on their side, because this is a different narrative than the reasons that they want to stop

the industry before this isn't the old anti crypto. Are we rhetoric? It's new anti crypto. Are we rhetoric? Yeah, I would say it's Yeah, go ahead, Andrew. It's new anti crypto stuff. And it's it's, you know, it's the same song on a different key is what it is. They're looking to slow down the industry. Probably behind all of this is they're pissed off that crypto played a meaningful part in the last election. That can't be denied.

Crypto will probably play a meaningful part in ongoing processes in DC for a while. They don't like that either. What are their alternatives? Their alternatives are to just kind of throw up their hands, say, yeah, you know what, let's go along with this. Well, that would be going along with Trump. That would be going along with this administration. That would be going along with probably a really good idea in terms of stablecoin regulation. And that good or bad is simply not the MO of the Democrat Party at this time. Anything that is coming from this administration, they are against it. This isn't just a crypto bill or a stable coin bill issue. It's the entirety of the administration. They're going to be anti whatever is done, whatever is said, whatever the process is,

they're going to be against it. That's what they did four years ago. That's what all of them campaigned on for the four years that Trump wasn't even in office. And that's what they're doing now. I would suggest that hasn't been a winning formula it seems, but at the same time, you know, they're free to go down a certain road. My guess is, is there's a lot of noise, but there's also signal. And I think the signal tells us that this will find its way through the process eventually. What does eventually mean?

I don't know. Maybe the timing is off by a few weeks or a couple of months at best, but it still ends up getting done because as Senator Thune said yesterday, I believe, hey, we're gonna move forward on this. Whatever you guys do, histrionics and the like, we're going to keep marching forward on this bill and understand that when it comes from the leader

of the Senate, that particular voice carries more heft than a couple of folks in the House. So if he says it's moving forward, it's probably moving forward, no matter the noise. That's the signal that I'm looking at, is what he had to say. Yeah, he controls the floor agenda and the cloture vote is scheduled for Thursday. It will happen Thursday. Mm-hmm, yeah.

So they would have to rally a hell of a lot of support in the next two days to really stop this at this point. Yeah, I think so. And some of the folks that signed the letter over the weekend, which was a surprise, the Republicans did not know that was coming, have already signaled that they are going to vote for it. So they got what they wanted. And, you know, that's this, the sausage making process is never pretty and this is DC and So I think the Senate vote could be as early as next week

There's definitely Also hanging over this certain of the Democrats in particular have played into the circle tether fight and Are trying to increase the restrictions on offshore stablecoin issuers. Tell me your turn. I agree. I mean, they pretty much covered all the things I was going to talk about.

I was just going to say and both. I think this is about concessions. I think, you know, Washington is looking for reasons to introduce friction into bills because it allows them negotiating power and the Trump meme coin didn't make it easier on us. I think it was a blunder in my estimation, Melania token on top of that. But I do think Bitcoin is going to be the shining example of what this industry is. And no one can change that narrative, right? No one can stop that train. It's going to keep chugging along. It doesn't need politicians to endorse it

for it to do what Bitcoin is designed to do. And so I think the real narrative here is temporary bad news so that people continue to accumulate their position on the dips and you know we're looking still at institutional adoption. The stablecoin bill does a lot. Don't get me wrong. I really want to see that pass. Regulatory clarity is it's a shame we haven't gotten it, you know, six years ago. Yes. But, you know, you live with what you get and we're fighting this fight as fast as we can. And it sounds like it's

on a pretty tight timetable, even in the worst case scenario, that something's going to get done. And even if those concessions mean we have to give a little bit, I think the best that at the end of the day, our political system will work and we will get a better product out of this. Hopefully we will. I do think that crypto has intrinsic dangers if you don't think through the process that you're about to kind of put into act as the gold standard because there are a lot of things that stablecoin introduction does that that changes

the fabric of our society at a base level. Okay, so go ahead Andrew. Think about where we are from where we have been a year ago the idea of a cloture vote coming up on Thursday for a stablecoin bill was not even possible, right? Like it was survive, right? Like how many times did we see, you know, meaningful people during the Biden administration post the survive meme because you just had to survive. Kaitlin and Custodias is exhibit A of that process, right? So we've moved that you know, proverbial political ball in a huge way in our direction, right? But new challenges pop up. So we've moved the ball in a big way.

We'd like to keep moving the ball. We'd like to keep inching it forward. And it would be nice if politically every once in a while people would be like, yeah, this is a good idea. Probably most of us should be on board. But it doesn't seem that the you know, that's how politics works right now. So we'll see you on Thursday. We'll see where it goes.

Yeah, but speaking of moving the ball, right and Caitlin, there's some nuance then maybe as this legislation comes out as to what stable coins will be used, what can be tokenized and how they land on that. And you're obviously moving that ball for it. That's a good segue milestone achieved to tokenize dollar issued on a permissionless blockchain was used Friday within the banking system to make cross border US dollar payments. Custodian Bank Advantage Bank teamed up to do

it for Mexico based trucking and logistics company DX Express. Obviously, this is you, you can explain it to us. Why is this a big deal? Why is this different than sending them tether, you know, from from one place to another? Because we did it in the banking system with regulatory blessing and with rights and protections that banks give that non-banks don't. And that's the bottom line. This is trad-fi. is as TradFi as it could possibly be. And Vantage, God bless them. We teamed up to issue it, but they can provide the Fedwire and Reserve Management services, and then we can issue the token. And because the Fed already publicly said we are a depository institution legally, then this is a tokenized bank deposit because we are a

depository institution. So the most important takeaway on that non on that bank non bank distinction is the banks issue dollars, non banks issue claims on dollars, big difference. So is there a world where this is what is allowed and we do see the tethers or the incumbents sort of cut out at least within the banking system because you told me many times before that you had the the patent, I believe on Yeah,

tokenized bank transfer share tokenized bank deposits, excuse me. So this could play heavily in your favor, actually, if the stable coin legislation is a bit more aggressive. Yes. What's interesting is non banks can continue to issue stable coins under the genius and stable act. But I have always thought that because banks have direct access to the Fed, of course, custodial, having been cut out from that for now, I do believe that will be resolved in our favor at some point.

But the banks are closer to the Fed. What is at bottom a central bank? What made central banking successful in financial history? It's really simple. It's not monetary policy. It's not even the discount window. It's a par guarantee. The banks that have direct access have the par guarantee.

The closer you are to the par guarantee, the less likely your token, whether it's a stable coin or a tokenized bank deposit, is ever going to break par. So it's that simple. And the Wall Street folks on this call are, see, nodding your heads. You understand the value of that. And so stable coins, it's stunning the success

that they've had without having direct access. In fact, actually, it's been a cat and mouse game, especially for Tether in those early years, trying to keep any US dollar bank reserves and banking relationships was really tough for them. But long story short, I've always thought because of that structural point that the stable coin market was going to go bank. Why did custodian bother to get a bank charter? But here's the thing. There is a conga line of crypto companies lined up at the OCC to get bank charters. So it doesn't mean that the traditional banks are going to dominate this. It means that crypto companies are going to get bank charters. Yeah. Yeah.

I like the distinction I was reading about the distinction between stable tokens and deposit tokens. And so this is the first deposit token transfer. It sounds like, you've ever seen that's, that's phenomenal. Unpermissionless blockchain. Yeah. Sorry. Cause obviously JP Morgan's been doing it with JPM coin for a while, but nobody in our space would use that. Sorry to interrupt. Huge precedent set. I mean, that's a major milestone and it's probably as big of a milestone

as what Michael Saylor's been able to do in terms of raising debt to buy more Bitcoin at its peaks. I would think that a lot of people are gonna follow suit. Are you gonna be, because you hold the patents, the person who can let people participate at your leisure or is it more complicated than that? Well we'll see. I mean honestly we don't know for sure if the stablecoin bill is gonna pass, you know, what, what last minute shenanigans might end up getting thrown into that sausage. And, and then obviously it's, it's going to take some time for the bank regulators to get the rules promulgated. So the bill is not really going to take effect until later this year. But what's fun about what Vantage and Custodia are

doing together is we can do this now. We've done the work with the regulators. They are, you can look this up, what's called a Fed member bank. What does that mean? They're regulated by the Texas Banking Department and the Dallas Fed. And then we're regulated by the Wyoming Division of Banking.

When we said in our press releases last month and this month that we worked closely with our regulators You can read into that what you what you want, but it you can read into it that the regulators absolutely knew and Spent a lot of time putting us through the ringer on What exactly we were doing here and we will be continuing to do more things together I'm really excited about what we're doing together. And what's so interesting is that Vantage is what's called a community bank.

They're not one of the giant banks, but because they're located in San Antonio, they do a lot of cross border business with Mexico and have a big, what's so interesting is DX Express is a long time customer of Vantage. It's a trucking company that moves goods back and forth between the US between Mexico, US and Canada. And so they're a longtime traditional banking customer. It was really fun being on the zoom call. We did all this on zoom and I could see their treasury operations and their

control, you know, control room in the background while they were transacting with us here. And what I love, love, love, love, love is this is solving an actual customer problem. The CEO wants to be able to pay his drivers within an hour of the trucks arriving at the destination. When you're thinking about cross border payments in particular, there is literally no way to do that, unless you're using a stable coin like technology, which is what we're what we're doing inside a bank wrapper here. So that's his he said that's his goal. We're going to work with him to try to make it happen. Inside the bank. Yeah, I was just curious really quickly. And then Andrew jump in. But does that mean that if that's a they

pay that the trucker, you know, within an hour, do they have to be accessing crypto in some sort of way? Or does it instantly basically go into their bank account as a dollar? I'm just wondering, I'm just wondering what the logistics are, if there's a conversion to make that easier for the truckers. Okay, here's the aha guys. Um, Andrew, I think you in particular, you'll appreciate this. This is getting into some of the difference between what a bank can do and what

a non-bank can do. We already talked about the par guarantee that banks have, but the other piece is that banks can issue something called negotiable instruments. Think about travelers checks, think about a cashier's check. Those can be endorsed to a different owner. And you can actually, it used to be that with a paper check, you were limited by the number of signatures you could fit on the back of a check

for how many times you could actually endorse it over to a different owner. But in our case, this is digital and Tim Scott talks about this. He talks about stable coins being digital travelers checks. So here's the punchline. We set this up so that the holder could present it for payment at custodian. You don't have to be a custodia customer. So now

there are there are some limitations, we did not disclose it all. But you can imagine what we went through with the bank regulators on this, right? Because it is very different. The way that tether and, and circle and Paxos, I did a lot of work on the legal side. They all require only customers to be able to redeem. Well, a bank with a traveler's check or a cashier's check can allow a non-customer to redeem. So we'll be talking a lot about all this because think about the impact of that. It means the network effects are far greater because you don't have to be a customer to be able to redeem. So now the way I think that the traditional stablecoin issuers have done this is they wanted only customers to redeem because they just didn't want a lot of redemptions.

And they wanted the tokens to continue to circulate. But what that means also is that the customers don't have a lot of rights. And we're starting to see some litigation over this. There was just a lawsuit decided against a Circle customer in February because the customer accidentally, they claim, thought a capital B was an eight and sent a million USDC to an ETH address that was incorrect, and then they're stuck. And now the stable coin issuers have the ability to freeze, seize, and reissue, but Circle did not do that.

And so the user sued trying to get them to treat USDC as a negotiable instrument and the court declined. So we issued this as a negotiable instrument and the court declined. So we issued this as a negotiable instrument. Exactly. So now start to think about what the market dynamic is going to look like when you have a bank that can guarantee par. Do you really need to have these bank, the tokenized bank deposits registered at exchanges where the issuers have to pay, you know, $20 million registration fees? What's the value of that?

Why would any bank pay an exchange to register that when anyone can bring the tokenized bank deposit and present it for payment? Now, again, they're going to be there are going to be a lot of details behind this. But Scott, you asked a really good question. And I just laid out some of the really like market changing dynamics of what we're doing here and why. It's so important that we've been working with our regulators on this.

So stay tuned because Vantage and Custodia are doing some really important things. And it's not like the token gets stuck once it gets paid to the driver. Everything that Caitlin is describing like the token gets stuck once it gets paid to the driver. Everything that Caitlin is describing is really the foundation of, and I've said this for a couple of months now, the conversations we're going to be having about Bitcoin and just crypto overall two and three years from now will be wholly different than the conversations

we're having right now. So we're going to be having conversations about Bitcoin bonds, Bitcoin connected mortgages, the movement of money back and forth with stable coins, which will mature and turn into tokenized, basically all sorts of things. Again, reminder that BlackRock and Citadel are moving in that direction.

They're creating an entirely new exchange so they can do all of that free of the, you know, strictures and architecture associated with the NASDAQ or the NYSC. They want to build it from whole cloth. So where we'll be in two years from now, that foundation was just described by Caitlin and what, you know, Custodia did with Vantage. So that's really important to grab ahold of. It's really important to understand, because where we're going to be with the movement of money,

where we're going to be with the creation of product and the ability for that product to change hands very, very quickly and the liquidity associated with those markets, right? You gotta have meaningful liquidity to have bit bonds be anything that matters in the world. That liquidity has to get really, really significant for us to get there, right?

But the options markets will explode on the Bitcoin side. Swaps will explode on the Bitcoin side inside of financial institutions. All of that stuff will be run on the rails of stable coins. And so yeah Where we will be in two to three years Associated with the conversation around crypto will be you know continuing to eat What it is that that trad fight does now? to eat what it is that that TradFi does now. And again, I always try and tie it to a guy like Larry Fink who has said two things that I will not forget

and I'll keep bringing up. He thinks Bitcoin is going to 500 to 700K, which by the way is really close to kind of what Berkshire Hathaway's 800K number is right now. So, you know, the question remains, do you think bitcoins is as valuable as insurance companies and railroads? And then on top of that is his I'm not really connecting, but I'm kind of talking about it in the same couple sentences. Bitcoin is headed towards a world that looks like the

mortgage cap and how mortgages work and the growth of mortgages. Those two things that he said over the past six months is just the foundational belief that I have that we're going to a world where there's product that is very TradFi-ish and takes the value of Bitcoin and turns it into bonds, mortgages, your movement of money, all of that stuff. Yeah. Number one, I think the fact that everyone can be included in redeeming their money at a bank, I think that is a massive, massive deal. I fell in love with Bitcoin as a minor,

and the thing that I loved about it was the inclusion. There's billions and billions of people that are subject to predatory lending. They're going to ridiculous financial services, folks, for loans and cash advances, and they're unbanked. They don't get to walk into a bank and have legitimate business to conduct and this gives every human being the right to walk into a bank and have legitimate business to conduct and that is the most important thing I've heard today. I mean, that is unbelievably huge. And inclusion is based upon crypto. The inclusion is based upon this technology that is breaking down access barriers. And if you look at, you know, like power laws and you're into the power law curve of Bitcoin's price, the

tightest one, the tightest correlated two values are number of wallets generated, price of Bitcoin. Those two have tracked over time exceptionally well, plus or minus a very small variance. And if you look at the what Caitlin just described is inclusion in the blockchain for everyone and it's going to open up those coffers to the people who have never gotten into it. And they're gonna start to become aware of this because it's the first time they've ever gotten to walk into a bank before.

I mean, that is incredible. Yeah, you don't wanna go have to cash your check in a Western Union somewhere in the middle of, you know, a Central American country where the gang is waiting outside to take your money. That it happens every single day, it's a real problem. Right. Well, they wouldn't even need to walk

into a physical location. So the phrase that we Americans are used to using, walk into a bank, I know that's a colloquial phrase, that's not how this is gonna work. This is all gonna be done electronically. And the amount of investment, I wanna make clear, the amount of investment that we have made to build this platform to be able to handle the compliance

related to what I'm talking about is not small. So now back to this whole question, when we talk about the convergence of banks and crypto companies, it's not going to be most of the traditional banks. I will tell you Vantage has made a lot of investment in technology. Good for them.

They're now able to capitalize on it because they can do things like this because their system is secure enough that they, that we don't have to worry about their, their online banking being, you know, hacked every day because there's, they have made the investment of the S in, in authentication that is required to be able to handle tokenized dollars, the average bank has not, they're still using username and password. And then maybe, you know, two questions or, you know, maybe if only we still had a signature, if only we saw

it so signature and silver gate. I mean, you know, it's pretty crazy. Can we have this, you know, to some degree, right? Yeah, we had these rails built, and they killed it on a week. They killed them. Yeah, but I also need to give a hat tip to Tether saying that it believes it has 400 million active users 400 million active users. Okay, so now they have not been connected to the banking system. They're pretty close, because they have their reserves held at a primary dealer onshore in the United States.

But Cantor is not a bank and does not have direct connection. So that they're issuing claims on dollars still. There's a claim, there's a claim to a claim on a dollar. That's the way it works there. But again, imagine if we can, I'm not saying we can, but imagine if those systems that have been built by Circle and Paxos and Tether to get the network effects with the very unfavorable legal regulatory accounting and tax treatment of incumbent stablecoins. And you fix all that now, because you're getting legal and regulatory clarity, the accounting, and I believe the tax clarity is coming as well. And again, I think it's different when a bank issues it because a dollar's a dollar when a bank issues it.

But I can't give advice on any of those legal regulatory accounting or tax fronts. I'll just leave you with the thought that the shift has already been made. It's just it's now going to be ratified. But here's the point. All those successful networks got built outside of the traditional system. And they're about to be connected in and some of the things that, you know, the network effects that they were able to build through crypto exchanges, offering and in circles case, especially DeFi offering volume and liquidity. You don't need that kind of exchange liquidity when you have the ability to redeem at a bank.

Yeah, I would say most of those people using tether obviously using it for well, I would say a huge percentage is to trade on exchanges to speculate. And the rest is cross border payments or payments to people which is primarily happening on Tron. Believe it or not, right? Yeah, yes, fast, cheap. And people don't even know. When I talked to Richard Tang and to CZ previously, they both said, Listen, we have, you know, 265 million customers now. Binance has 265 million customers. Most of them aren't trading. Like most of those

people are using it as a wallet. Yeah, or they're just using it as a wallet. It's like they have a Binance account and they send money to one another. You're allowing that within the banking system. That's a pretty yeah, again, there are some of the details are going to get revealed here. I just gave you some very big hints. So people are asking us about this on on Twitter yesterday, Jeff Sinna, the CEO of Vantage, and I will be doing an American banker fireside

chat on May 21. And we'll be revealing some some of some of these things. I will say it's baby steps, guys, but you now see the vision. You now see their marriage where I mean, so we obviously as you kind of hinted to before, all the crypto companies are in line to get a bank charter. So isn't there a world where tether just comes to you? And you kind of wrap this all up vantage custodial tether or circle and

I think what we did woke a lot of people up. And I think this conversation, Scott is probably going to make a lot of people go, Whoa, because a lot of people did not have this vision didn't see it. I'll be honest, this has been our vision for seven years. And it's taken man has taken a long time to get there. And we're not there yet. Right? We still have a lot of work to do. But we are doing it in baby steps with the explicit permission or non-objection of regulators,

as the case may be. She's done it while stewing the Fed. Yeah. Well, because again, think about that power guarantee. The Teaback presentation last week made some noise, Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, Tebac, they had a stablecoin presentation at Tebac for the first time, Andrew, I know you saw this. And it talked about that, that the stablecoin issuers don't have access to Fed Master accounts, and that that increases the potential for financial instability.

And I about fell out of my chair when I saw that because the Fed's official position was that stablecoin issuers, just the existence of us would cause financial instability. And now that whole thing has been flipped on its head. And Tebac is saying if stablecoin issuers don't have access to master accounts, which is the par guarantee, it will cause financial instability. The world is, nature is healing, let's put it that way, because of course T-BAC is right. I'd really love, Caitlin, to talk about the shift from one administration to another

from one administration to another across regulatory agencies like the SEC, the OCC, some of those regulators, and also the lack of shift at the Fed, right? So give us, you know, give us some background there because the Fed has not shifted. We saw a week and a half ago, they made a announcement, but it didn't really mean anything. And it fooled a bunch of people. So I think that needs to be talked about too. So give us your thoughts. Yeah, we've seen a complete reversal of the Biden anti-crypto army guidance at the OCC and FDIC

and a partial reversal at the Fed. It's not that the Fed didn't do anything. They reversed four of their five statements. The one they did not reverse is an actual regulation. It was voted on by the board seven to zero. And they're gonna need a board vote in theory, although the executive order says, if any of the guidance violates

any of those 10 Supreme Court precedents, you don't need a vote, you don't need a notice and comment process, you just reverse it now. And of course the Fed hasn't done that. And we know that of course there's a battle between the Trump White House and the Fed over independence. But long story short, the Fed did leave, to? But, but long story short, the

Fed did leave to your point, Andrew, one of its statements in place. And it's it's Yeah, what does that tell you? Senator Lummis really took the gloves off about it, and said, look, we got a fundamental problem, the same anti crypto people are still in their jobs at the Fed. And that in theory is going to change. There was there's a very prominent banking attorney that left his private practice and went to work for Governor Mickey Bowman, who is the nominee Trump's nominee to be vice chair for supervision and regulation,

to head the supervision and regulation division. Her vote, I think, is coming up today in the Senate Banking Committee. So she, in theory, will be confirmed at some point in the next few weeks, presuming that there is support to get her through. Although all this crypto stuff is going to be tied in with all that as well, right? I think you can this crypto stuff is going to be tied in with all that as well, right? I think you can see that it's going to be pretty clear that Democrats are going to be coming after all the nominees for financial regulation, just like they have for every other one. So she needs all the Republicans to support her. But where I'm going is there is a change happening at the Fed. As Nick Carter pointed out is there is a change happening at the Fed. As Nick Carter pointed out though,

when he looked at the composition of the Fed, one of the reasons why the Fed may not have voted to remove that regulation, aside from the fact that all the people behind it are very anti-crypto, is that they might not have had the votes on the Fed Board because the Fed Board is for three Democrats and that's counting Powell as a Republican and he's not exactly a Trump fan. So you know there's it's interesting because the Trump fired the Democrats on the National Credit Union

Association Board which is the equivalent of the Federal Reserve for for banks. It's a it Regulator of Credit Unions. And they too have, it's an independent board, right? And Trump went in and fired the Democrats. So it's an interesting question. Is Trump gonna do anything? He's officially saying, but he's also talking an awful lot. I'm not gonna fire Powell.

I'm not gonna fire Powell. Well, damn well, you know, he better raise interest rates, hint, hint. It's kind of how it seems like he's talking about it, right? It's, you know, Doth protests too much for how much he said he's not going to fire Powell, but he could at any time, in theory, fire the other Democrats on the Fed board if he decides that he needs to, because that is a majority Democrat board. And that might be the simple explanation, Andrew, for why they left that guidance in place, that regulation in place. There's a stark difference between where the SEC stands now as it relates to crypto and where the Fed stands now as it relates

to crypto and a reminder for everybody that's listening, the SEC is going to move around every four years, every two years with the movement of elections, right? Because politically, that's how the SEC is constructed. There are appointments, they get voted on, yada, yada, yada. On the Fed side, the Fed can decide to move in six, 10, six, 10, 12 year increments and say, well, we're going to go along to get along now on the crypto side. So let's get rid of four of these, but let's leave this one in just in case things adjust and change a little bit. And we can go back to kind of how we really want to be associated with crypto, because the reality is stable coins and the like Bitcoin,

the entire movement is an affront to what the Fed actually is, right? The Fed for all intents and purposes controls monetary policy here in the United States, ergo almost the entire world, right? So a technology that can upend all of that for all intents and purposes and give power back to the quote unquote people and allow monetary policy to be more Adam Smith than Jerome Powell. Yeah, they're there. They don't like that. They're not going to sign off on that and be like, yeah, you know, crypto school. Yeah, let's let's do some crypto cool stuff. That's not where they're at, you know?

Well, with one exception, though, which is that to the extent that the market has has chosen with its feet for stable coins to be 99% US dollars, right? I mean, Tether even abandoned its euro stable coin, because the market didn't want it. It was only 100 million. That was nothing. Right? What did the market want? It wants dollars. So ultimately, every dollar has to settle through the Fed. Every one, right? Including stablecoins. So the interesting thing is, and this is why I always thought we were so close to getting approved before FTX blow blew up. That's what the record showed in our lawsuit. Yeah, I know. Thanks, Sam. Stay in jail. But anyway, the reason I said that is that there are a

lot of very thoughtful people inside the Fed who recognize that they want this in the bank regulatory perimeter. And they didn't agree with the Michael Barr, you know, there's a there's a lot that happened at the Fed under Michael Barr that was not kosher. And, and I think a lot of folks have realized that some of the things that were said were not accurate, and that I'm trying to be politically correct here, and that it needs to be overturned and it will be. And so Andrew, your point is, I don't think that, well, I do know that under the Biden appointees at the Fed,

they were very anti-stable point, but I'm not as convinced. In fact, actually I am moving the opposite direction. We've got supporters inside the Fed. Many of them, unfortunately, were run out during the Biden, during Barr's reign. And I use the word reign because he ruled like a king

over bank supervision and regulation. He siloed information. There's an awful lot of press about how he prohibited his staff from speaking to any other Fed governor, unless they'd spoken to him first, right? And so he just, you know, ruled with an iron fist. And so unfortunately, a lot of the people who didn't agree with him got either walked out or got run out, right? Which is part of what Lamas is saying that there's, there's gotta be some staff turnover. But, but again, nature is healing. The Fed is definitely the laggard among the

federal bank regulators, but I do believe that it's going to get on board. And to be honest, if the stablecoin bill passes, which I do believe it will, the Fed won't have a choice. And part of the reason that the stablecoin bill, that the Fed has been tepid on the stablecoin bill, is they were working with the Democrats. Again, the Fed is a predominantly Democratic agency. Look at its political donations. They were working with Maxine Waters

and they wanted to be the sole chartering authority of stablecoin issuers. And that is not the case in the Genius and Stable Act. They are a secondary regulator in the Genius and Stable Act. They are a secondary regulator in the Genius and Stable Act. And it was because of their own behavior that the Genius and Stable Act has taken some of that power away. Well, they haven't been invited to any of the cool parties,

you know, in the last six months. Well, that was interesting. You're right. They weren't been invited to any of the cool parties, you know, in the last six months. Well, that was interesting. They weren't even in the room at the crypto summit, right? The other agencies were, but not the Fed. That was obviously a purposeful oversight by the White House. Yeah. I'm sorry to sound like the dumb guy in the room, but I'm floored based upon what you talked to us about earlier, and I'm just still, you know, just from just a participant in the space. I don't think that Stablecoin Act is as important as I thought it was at the beginning of this call. You know, why would we not want to go

forward with the most tried and true internal system that keeps the US dollar as the object of affection. That seems like the American way. As much as I would love stablecoin regulation and that to be passed, it does feel messy and it does feel like a potential black eye in the future based upon people not doing it the right way. Whereas banks can't mess this up. It's backed by the US government. That is what, like you said, the par value that you can provide, it's better than any solution out there, including Tether and USDC right now, because they don't have par value. Right?

And if you talk about like the only thing I'm trying to understand, and I guess the question for you is, is like, what is the, if we wanted to implement your process immediately across every bank in the country, what's keeping that? Is it a technical implementation problem? Is it a regulatory implementation problem? Like what keeps us from going full scale? Let's go make this a reality for every bank. Yeah, it's regulators. This is baby steps, right? I mean, again, this has been years in the making. We were so close and then FTX blew up and now we're back. But we're there still there's still regulatory hesitation. This is't gonna get unveiled widely and wide open to everyone. It's really fun because we actually had a test

of our compliance system that was unanticipated during the live transactions. And it worked with flying colors, thankfully. But the point is, and we had a couple of like real world glitches. That's what's fun about about banks can't test banks, banks don't have a concept of alpha and beta testing. You're either moving real dollars or you're not right now you can do you know, controlled transactions, which is what we did here. But we have regulators watching we had everybody watching this. But we have regulators watching, we had everybody watching this. And what's fun is that we actually had some real world tests of some of these policies. And I don't want to get ahead of vantage and explain some of the things that happened. But my point is that we anticipated the things that happened and we had the policies in place

to deal with them. And this is bank level stuff that I'm not sure the non-banks, well, I am sure in the case of the, not clarifying the legal status and that lawsuit I referred to for the guy who fat fingered eight to a capital B, right? I mean, under the uniform commercial code, it's, I mean, who knows, right?

Let's put it this way. There are decades of, of lawsuit precedence over what banks obligations are to replace a lost negotiable instrument. And the consumer advocates, of course, one of the biggest criticisms is that this industry has not been consumer friendly. Well, there's an example of the judge kind of threw up his hands and said, look, the circle did not define what this is under the Uniform Commercial Code. The customer tried to get it treated as a as a negotiable instrument. And the judge said, Hey, I'm just going to stick with the contractual terms. It didn't get defined. It said in the contractual terms that if you make a mistake, which this customer admitted that they made the mistake, then it's your risk and they don't have an obligation to reissue. But the point is like banks do and those circumstances and there's a whole tried and

true process. The customer has to put up a bond, gets to go to a court, put up a bond, and prove that the instrument is lost, right? But there are processes for these kinds of things. So think about all of the scams and the fat finger trades that people have just had to eat. And yet the issuers, remember, stablecoins have an issuer. They are not like Bitcoin. They have an issuer, right? And the smart contract has the ability to- Roll it back. Exactly. To seize, freeze, and if necessary, reissue. Now you've got to make sure that that's not used against the bank as a double spend, right, which is why there are processes for this.

You have to go to a court and post a bond in the value of the lost negotiable instrument. And then the judge has to order the bank to reissue it. But the point is that that as it tried into a process that's been in existence since the Uniform Commercial Code in the 1950s, And those kinds of protections have not been available to stable coin users, but they're about to be because it's gonna be done through the banking system. Yeah. Well, that's why I just two seconds, Andrew. If I'm a regulator, it's an easy choice.

Like I don't even have to think about it. Like what do I wanna mess with this ball of wax that nobody can agree upon and that there's heavy headwinds against as it relates to stable coins or do I want to go the path of least resistance that we've we're all familiar with and accustomed to sorry andrew go ahead as somebody that at times could qualify as as having fat fingers I don't know if we should be using that term I go forward basis. I'm just kidding. No more fat finger shaming here on the show. But yeah, there are...

We've all done it. Yeah, we all have. Yeah, but I can't imagine sending a million dollars and thinking that I'm gonna type in an Ethereum address rather than copy paste and check it. Like I've never heard of somebody going through the motions of typing in the entire Ethereum address. That guy was special, whoever did that.

Yeah, that's pretty intense. Indeed. It is intense. But but but to your point, though, it should be obvious that the Fed should have embraced this because of what you just said. Right. These are the things that there are tried and true processes, you know, legal regimes that stablecoins should have been fit into since the inception, but it was, and the Fed was going in that direction. But then FTX

happened and Michael Barr quashed the whole thing and tried to literally kill everyone and all the debankings, right? And a lot of, you know, Silvergate, Signature, Protigo, gone. Some of us survived and we're here and we've learned a lot and we're ready to roll up sleeves and work within the system. we just culturally don't do anything unless we have permission to do it. Now all of these batches of trades, they were real trades, but they were small. It's going to take a while to get to a real scale here. And I guarantee there are going to be glitches. We're going to have to work a lot with regulators to get to a real scale. But I think you guys just had your eyes wide open that this is what's coming. And there will be a number of banks that like Vantage embrace this. And is it scary? Yes. Jeff and I have an op-ed that hopefully will be coming out soon, where we analogize what's going to happen in the payment space to what happened in the stock trading space

in 1998 and 2001. In that timeframe, it used to be that you had really just three venues, the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ and the American Stock Exchange. And all stock trades were routed through one of those venues. And now we have 30 different venues with all the dark pools and ATSs, right. And

each one will will cater to the different desires. Do you want fast execution? Do you want the tightest spreads? Do you want confidentiality? That's going to happen in payments. And so even the stable coin market is going to end up being fragmented between those that want the fastest execution for payments that absolutely positively have to get there, right? And those that want the tightest, the lowest cost for the smallest payments, those kinds of things. And then I think you will see batches of payments done. And I also think that you will see,

even though the stable and genius act prohibit stable coins from paying interest, and there's been a lot of conversation about this, that doesn't mean stable coins won't pay interest. It just means the stable coin issuer won't be the one that does it. So there will be credit structures where Fintechs will drop a stable coin, a tokenized bank deposit into a credit structure. And someone who will take it, take risk with their money to get some yield will invest in those. So I think that's coming. And, and I'm not worried at all about the fact that stable coins can't pay

interest while tokenized money market funds can. And that's one of the points that the TBAC presentation made. And they were wondering, are tokenized money market funds going to threaten the banking system because they can be used as payments too? And the answer is, yeah, they can be used as payments. And that goes entirely outside of the banking system because it goes through the securities industry. So of the banking system because it goes through the securities industry. So these are all big questions, but again, if it's a tokenized money market fund, that's one or two steps removed from that PAR guarantee. And I don't think that tokenized money market funds are going to be the big payments game.

It's going to be tokenized bank deposits. Well, I couldn't agree more. And I think if I'm anyone in Trump's cabinet, and I hear this, we can move as fast as we want in this space, because it's only going to have errors attached to the speed at which we move. And those errors have no repercussions at all. We just try again and keep print. It's printed dollars, right? So let's absorb the cost of moving quickly in making every bank in America have this advantage over the rest of the banking system, you know, globally. We, you know, there's so much talk about us leading the way and yet this the issues that we're talking about is this marriage of TradFi and crypto and

It's so complicated in some cases that even the guys on the crypto side don't understand the complexity of the TradFi side the guys On the TradFi side don't understand the pitfalls of the crypto side And so you get this you get a lot of friction in that. And I think this, this is something that's, if it's not bipartisan support, it, I'd be shocked. Like who could stand against this being, um, you know, the standard by which we, by which we judge, you know, our progress moving forward into like the future of banking, right? I don't think if anybody took a fresh look at this,

they're gonna see it as a bad thing for America. To the contrary, it's in my opinion, the path of least resistance to take the center stage globally as the forward thinking banking institutions, right? It's the perfect time to pivot to yield. And because that's gonna be the name of the game on a go forward basis, whether it's stable coins, whether it's product, coin basis talking about yield,

our firm, ArchPublic is talking about yield and how you go about it. So, you know, let's talk about yield, you know. Yeah, we can let Caitlin go. We've kept her about 27 minutes over time. That's good. You guys asked, you got out some of the, We can let Caitlin go. We've kept her about 27 minutes over time. You got out some of the

stop it. But now we're three minutes away from the end. So all right. Yeah. Well, everybody. Of course. Thank you so much, Caitlin. You know, we great conversation with her. Yeah, great conversation with her. She's fantastic. Unreal. I'm blown away. I'm going to go do a lot of research on this. You know, we released last week our Bitcoin yield out go and what does that mean? Sure, you're going to get extraordinary performance associated with the accumulation of Bitcoin, the intelligent accumulation of Bitcoin, but we wanted to focus on yield. There's been so much conversation about I've got this pile of Bitcoin, but we run into focus on yield. There's been so much conversation about,

I've got this pile of Bitcoin, what can it do for me? So yield is the answer. But here's the important thing. We're not doing weird, funny things with your Bitcoin and creating that yield. You keep custody, you keep control in your account with your name. It's it's all you We're not doing anything with your Bitcoin other than an algorithm is using an arbitrage play To adjust the purchase and sale of different amounts of Bitcoin over time when you get a pop That's significant two plus percent or more. You're gonna sell off a small amount of here Let me explain technically what happens. So we want to accumulate Bitcoin.

We believe Bitcoin is something that we should own. And when you are accumulating Bitcoin, you should be doing it over multiple trades, as many trades as you can, because that's dollar cost averaging in your position. That's just the most prudent way to manage volatility in a market. And so as you enter positions, you should be entering them on the dips, you know, if you've heard buy the dips. So our algorithm will look based upon the settings that you put into it at what you define a dip as. And if you define a dip as 2.1% in a four hour candle, you can set your algo to take advantage of that dip and accumulate a little bit of Bitcoin at that point.

If that, at that point, the price bounces and you tag the bottom and you're in profit at that, there's a profit potential there. So if you set the parameter to sell Bitcoin after it's gone up by 3.1% in a four hour candle, guess what, it's gonna trigger that event too. And you're in complete control over those settings. You drive the entire software. You're using it on multiple levels and multiple inferences to create these situations. And what the byproduct of that is, is this. Either the trade that you buy the Bitcoin in goes down and

you buy some more at the next dip and you have this great blended cost average as you accumulate Bitcoin on the dips. Or as you trade that it goes up and it creates that yield potential like Andrew's talking about in terms of cashing out in a positive trade. And or it trends somewhere in between and you're in profit on that until some future event takes place. So the three outcomes are really you either accumulate more Bitcoin or you start producing some cash yield against those trades that you're taking on a daily basis. And all of this is done in a completely automated way. You can set it and we can help you go through

setting as many instances as you want so you can take advantage of the market conditions that present themselves. By the way, we're doing another giveaway. We're going to give away two more industry passes. If you follow our triarch public and you download our free software, just an idea, you know, a reminder that your ability to engage with our Bitcoin Solana Ethereum and XRP out goes is free to you for first ten thousand dollars every year free free free so go use it try and break it give us some feedback do

everything you can possibly to it it connects directly to TradingView and Gemini so you can do a million back tests. You can make it do wild and crazy things. You can do all that on your own and it's free. So go use it, go try it. Got thousands and thousands of users at this point. People love the product and first in class, best in class. You can't go find this anywhere else. People love it.

So, yeah. And this is gonna be announced as it says there in the tweet, this is gonna be announced on the show next week. Yes announced on the show next week. Yes, on the show next week, the winner of the industry pass for Bitcoin bank industry pass is there's two of them. So you can bring a plus one. That winner is going to be announced next week at nine forty five.

As long as we keep to that nine forty five. Because we're so good. We're so good at tracking our schedules and topics on this show. Well, that was pretty groundbreaking stuff, man. I'm glad we went over. That's that. I think you just broke the biggest news. I was more alluding to my own lack of structure

than this particular day. I think this is as big a news as we've heard in 2025, honest to God. I think this allows every bank to go, oh, we have an example on Wall Street of how to do this. That's Michael Saylor. Now we have an example in the banking industry. And those are the two biggest sectors

that we targeted this year, right? Banking and Wall Street. Really good stuff. I mean, people can read it, but I do want to just show how good April was. Yeah, April was great. A lot of volatility in April, a lot of choppy waters. Well, choppy waters and the truth of the matter is that over a three plus week period, Bitcoin

was up 30% almost. So Bitcoin always does a little bit something different than we think it's going to do. We think it's going down underneath 75. No, just kidding. We'll go to 74 and then we'll rock it up to 96, 97. So you got to be in it is the point and find a way to be in it. So yeah. Anything else we missed before I let you go? Other than you can see it scrolling there, but you should go to this is where you do it. can see it scrolling there, but you should go to this is where you do it archpublic.com. Yep, people love it, man. They just love it. It's amazing. You know, like like you said, literally 1000, literally 1000s of people have signed up. Right? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna I've seen the numbers and I don't get

any shit about it. Only compliments. That's a first in my life. You can keep using this for as long as you want. The annual cap of $10,000 renews every year. So if you're somebody who just wants to get into Bitcoin and see an institutional tool that you haven't had access to, which is trading automation, that's what we're trying to do,

is show people behind that curtain. And if you're somebody who has a very sophisticated plan and are tired of the manual application of that plan, we can literally customize the software to meet your purchasing needs that you set out. So yeah. Why would you even simply dollar cost average yourself? Yeah.

You can just set it and forget it. So you can. And the fees are better. So there's that. All right, guys, that's all we got for you Tell me Andrew and I'll be back obviously next Tuesday. I don't know if we can best Caitlin. Sorry Do I'll see what we can do but otherwise guys I will of course be back tomorrow and got crypto town hall in 10 minutes Andrew you guys start coming back on man. I don't know what happened to you

Yeah, I do need to come back on We're a little bit busy at Art of Public. That's probably why. Whatever. All right, guys, we'll see you tomorrow. See y'all. All right. All right. Let's go.