The Wolf Of All Streets - Altseason Incoming??? | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

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Hey guys, did you know there's a, believe it or not, there's actually, you'd never guess, Joe, which country do you think just declared martial law? Assuming you haven't checked the news, if you check the news, you're not allowed to answer. Not allowed to answer. Oh, okay. Not allowed to answer. Okay, you guys check the news way too often. Robert, you don't check the news, I'm sure. Do you know which country, if you had to guess, declared martial law?

Sorry, I was just on the train all over the news. Oh, wow. Okay, I'm surprised. Do you know which country, if you had to guess, declared martial law? Sorry. I was just on the train all over the news. Oh, wow. Okay. I'm surprised. All right. Cool. Dave, I'm sure Dave was probably in the country himself. But yeah, there's martial law declared for anyone listening in South Korea. So I'm speaking from this account. My team is doing another space from the other account on that story. But talking about martial law, I can't link it to crypto, so I can't say that. But just going to the markets, positive news on the crypto side and something that'll be interesting for me to discuss, Dave, good to have you as well, is first, I don't think what's happening in South Korea is going to have much impact on the market from what I've seen. It doesn't seem to be too

serious. It came out of nowhere. No one expected it. It's more domestic squabbles. I don't know if anyone's following the situation in South Korea. But from what I understand, there's just a deadlock in the government. And then the president, I assume, just declares martial laws to kind of gain back power. It came out of nowhere. Everyone's trying to make sense of what the president is thinking. His approval rating is really low. There's not much more to it.

It does sound scarier than it is. It's unrelated to North Korea. So it's nothing to worry about from a geopolitical perspective. It is just domestic politics and kind of the imperfections of a democracy for now. We'll see how it develops. But we took us a while to decide to do a space. Going to crypto, I think that's what matters. It is looking like it's out season. Before going to altcoins and the performance we've seen across the board from IOT iota i didn't know they're still around to hedera algorand and obviously xrp but before doing so uh dave good

to have you i'd love to give if you can give us uh for anyone that hasn't joined our shows in the last few days it's kind of quick recap on the last few days um maybe recap on last week as well on on the most important news and your thoughts on the state of the market dave well i mean it starts with, I always start with Bitcoin, which is kind of hanging out underneath 100 and kind of gathering itself. I mean, I hate to anthropomorphize, you know, markets, but, you know, it really feels like it's a coiling spring again in this very tight range under 100. And, you know, when you look at the strength of the network, when you look at what's going on with, you know, Saylor, with now with Marathon, with

all with, you know, Dennis Porter talking about 10 different states adding it to strategic reserves, obviously other sovereigns and the big wild card will be what will happen in the U.S. vis-a-vis, you know, vis-a-vis that. I mean, my point has always been that if that happens, it accelerates. We were talking on a space last night with Gary Cardone and the people from the power law people, and it's amusing how the power law math and a simple looking at past euphoria versus the strength of the network come up with very similar sorts of endpoints in this cycle, which are somewhere between 250 and a little over 250. And that doesn't feel remotely hyperbolic, whereas hyperbole is more than that. But if there's a game change in terms of sovereign

use of Bitcoin as an asset, that could matter. And so the market's holding out there. But usually what happens when Bitcoin starts holding out in an area when there's been profits just before that is money flows into alts. And so we've seen an explosion in XRP. And I do think that was impacted by Korea, because if you look, it went from $2.70 down to $2.30. It's now recovered back to almost $2.50. And so because there was rumors yesterday that there was tons of Korean buying of XRP. Look, I'm in the middle of trying to figure out XRP. I probably overthought it. A week and a half ago, it felt like something was going to happen there,

which is why I started asking questions about its tokenomics. But, you know, it exploded. Now, in addition to that, there have been a bunch of other what people call zombie coins, because they were the ordino coins, is the more used ones that have moved higher, while coins such as Solana have languished a bit. I mean, it's not down huge, but, you know, it's a fairly sizable, you know, correction. It feels healthy in Solana. Ether has kind of done middling, and you're looking at, you mentioned a couple.

I'll mention a few others. Phantom is another one we hadn't heard about in years. It's starting to move. Cardano, obviously, has, you know, gone well and truly past the dollar level and is now pushing 120, etc. So there's clearly some money rotating into other chains for a variety of reasons. And that's fairly typical when Bitcoin pauses. That said, I think the end its engine of growth will be will be led by Bitcoin. But if we look at historically, we've seen out season last, if you look at the last two cycles that lasted between 250 and 270 days so almost a year do you expect the same to happen here is this is this the

beginning of the out season or just a quick pump as uh bitcoin languishes a bit well right now i think it's a bit pumping bitcoin languages a bit but you know my opinion is depending and and there are rumors that it's going to be paulkins, but it doesn't matter. Depending on how Trump fills out his team, how quickly he can get them into the seats, there could be a prolonged alt season from companies, especially U.S.-based companies that have created alts that have languished because they've been in regulatory hell for four years. I don't think people should underestimate how strong that could be. Anything that's happening now is a shadow of what could happen if there was a real regulatory environment. Now, understand that I'm talking about utility tokens and chains that have potential

real economic value. I'm not saying that we can't get well beyond those prices as people go into the hype cycle, but I do think there will need to be at least a story behind it. How much utility do these chains still hold? Where is IOTA now? I haven't spoken about IOTA since 2017. Is it speculation or is it just value-based investing on chains that don't have the valuation that some people think they deserve? Right now, it's clearly speculation on all of these things. But that said, the smart money is going to figure out which chains actually have evolved and have real use cases. But you know how it works, Mario. I mean, it's just, it's no different than buying a meme coin, right? You know, you're buying something because you think other people are going to get into the hype. I

mean, IOTA was always people bought. The Internet of Things is going to be huge. Well, okay, yes, it is. What will the chain do? And I don't know the answer to that. I'm not, you know, I haven't spent the time to dig in. And I think there are people who are listening who probably have and are probably saying, oh, and can answer that question better than I could. Yeah, I think Joe would love to get your thoughts on this. As you indicated, it's of an out season.

The beginning of an out season is obviously there's like an index of, I can't remember what it's called, the out coin season index. And that's where, when there's 75% of the coins are above the, out of the top 50 coins, when 75% of them outperform Bitcoin

over a 90-day period, that will be the beginning of an out season. It's not, for me, the best indicator. A better indicator would be obviously Bitcoin Dominance, which has gone down despite Bitcoin's price doing pretty well. So it does look like there's multiple indicators that are showing we're in out season.

CZ put out a tweet today that went viral. It's actually taking a picture of the out button on his keyboard. And across the board, the boards different people different key opinion leaders or influential voices in the space talking about the alt season kicking off giving their thoughts you know we've got uh key young jude talking about how this alt season will be very different to previous ones as well um your thoughts on everything we're seeing joe is this the beginning of that alt season we've been waiting for all year? I mean, we all kind of called it,

and it's almost like clockwork with Bitcoin going up into the 90 range and just not eclipsing that 100K mark. So I think we are seeing that rotation. It's kind of stayed in this range for long enough, you know, for, you know, long enough in our industry, a couple of weeks here where people are like, okay, maybe it's not going to move up across that 100 and I can rotate out of that. And whether it's rotation out of that

for speculation, or, you know, market makers buying, like, you know, it's kind of crazy. I mean, you know, if you're going to ask me, you know, what the coin of the day on Lunar Crush was going to be today, and it's Verge, you know, which started in 2014, and is up 82% today to the 324th largest coin again. And you know, their big move was back in 2017 2018, when they migrated over to Ethereum. And then nothing's happened since. Right. And why is that coin pumping today is a huge, huge question mark. So it's not so it's not just me, there's genuinely nothing

happened in that space, in those dino coins. No, go look at their website. Go check out what they do. I mean, they moved to ETH in 2019. And if you go to the website, it's the same open source blockchain for decentralized transactions.

Like build your app. It's nothing. There's nothing happening. So for that to be going off along with all these other projects, I mean, it's just speculation. It's people saying like, what's the next thing that's going to pump? You know, they've said it's probably not a lot different than meme coins. You know, the chill guy, you know, like all the meme coins that are pumping on Solana right now, it's like people

are just looking for something. And potentially projects still have decent uh treasuries that are out there and they're they're trying to make moves with that i don't know exactly what's going on there but uh there's no reason these coins should be pumping i'm looking at iota's twitter account see what their what developments they had what what movements they have there how strong their community is um and then just talking about the the state of the um um two other asset classes i want to talk about first meme coins obviously we can't skip a space it skipping a show without talking about me because briefly uh you talked about chill guy um that's been doing it performing really well i performed with the rest of the markets even recently in the

last few weeks it's been our busiest uh department our business. And then you've got the VC-backed projects, which have been starting to launch again. We're starting to see a bit of life there. And we've started finally seeing some projects do well in the last week and a half. You know, started to see 10Xs, 5Xs, 20Xs. So we got what? You got Shieldium doing a 10X on ideal price. You have Kyma doing a 3, 4X.

We've got another one here wrecked coin so you got some coins assigned to us still very different to what we see in bull markets could we see a rotational liquidity into those coins as well you know i i always say you know you said alt season you know and i would say you know the alt season in your like alt coin that you've been holding on to is gonna last like it's not gonna last 250 days. It's going to last like 14 days. Right. And so, you know, you have to have your finger on the trigger of some of these things that you've been holding onto. Like,

it is just a gift from above to think that, you know, you could potentially rotate out of your verge, you know, at 82% higher than you thought you could a couple of weeks ago. So, you know, you should always sell your losers and hold your winners, but this is kind of like a gift from above for everyone. And then for meme coins, I mean, that, that time period's even smaller. You know, some of these things that are launching, I mean, we have a feed that's just adding these new projects constantly and it is

pretty hilarious. I mean, it's pretty hilarious to see like some of the names of these things that are coming. Like right now it's like XRP, you know, XRP 6900, XRP Pepe. Like all these things have launched in like less than an hour. Yeah, exactly. I forgot there's a bit massive hype in the XRP meme coin ecosystem. It's like it just feels like meme coins are just going to be here to stay and they just follow whatever narrative gains traction. Whether it's obviously AI meme coins are just going to be here to stay, and they just follow whatever narrative gains traction, whether it's obviously AI, because you're doing XGBO.

But it was fascinating. I'm waiting for the martial law one is about to pop through, guaranteed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me tell my team to launch one. It's a joke, by the way. We're not going to launch a martial law meme coin. But just quickly, Robbie, one interesting development that we've seen, not sure if you guys have looked into it. I haven't looked into it enough.

So we're very big in the AI world, obviously, because we've got an ai incubator outside of crypto and as you know we're very big in the you know very involved in the meme coin world and yeah i mean because i interviewed andy a ray just a few days ago or about a week ago i put it out two days ago you should watch the interview by the way everyone has pinned on my profile he talks about how uh truth terminal had sex with another agent if you want to understand what that means you can go there he even put it under in one of my comments of the interview he explains in the interview but he also put screenshots of the discussion of how these agents decided to have sex but just going just going back to it though one so we've seen a lot of these meme coins these ai meme coins do

extremely well starting with truth terminal which is kind of like the Bitcoin of, sorry, GOAT, which is like the Bitcoin of AI meme coins. But one interesting aspect is that we're starting to see those meme coins develop utility. And what's happening is that we're slowly starting to see utility coins launch in a similar format as meme coins rather than launch as a VC-backed token with a private fundraiser. I'm not sure if you guys, that's just been happening the last couple of weeks. Not sure if you've seen that at all. Yeah. So I think what's going on is essentially we're coming at the same solution from lots of different aspects,

because at the end of the day, you're going to have the most sustained ecosystem and environment where you have a strong community that will support it. And the question is, how do you go about building that community? Do you build it, quote unquote, from the ground up with, you know, a fair launch and community activation? Or do you do it and meme coins, you know, are one attempt at doing that as well? Or do you do it by building, you know, raising money from venture capital and building a product and making something that everybody can use and, you know, kind of finishing it before you actually open it up to the community. And I think people have taken obviously different approaches to that over the years.

I think what we're seeing right now with some of the AI coins and truth terminal and stuff is really interesting because in my mind, it kind of moves along two different fronts. On the one hand, you have leaning, you know, some of these AI things just leaning into finding a new narrative for meme coin creation. So rather than just focusing on memes, you're focusing on an AI narrative on top of what's essentially a meme coin. But the ones that really intrigue me are the ones that are more like on-chain games because I'm a big fan of kind of some of these things like Dark Forest and experiments of what games look like that are essentially played through token transactions.

And I think we've seen some of these play out recently. And so some of the people some of these play out recently. And so, you know, some of the people in the spaces may have followed. There was essentially a bounty put up some weeks ago of $50,000. And it was essentially, you know, put up against the concept of people submitting queries to an AI agent via Twitter, and you'd have to pay to submit a query. And the idea is that you try to trick the AI into sending you its money. And essentially, that's an on-chain game. But I love the way that it blends the narrative of this being an AI agent. And I think it's a great way to inspire people into seeing how these kinds of entertainment experiences that also blend crypto infrastructure can actually be really fun and create something completely new thanks to the new medium.

Yes, I think it's a funny one. That's another story. There's an agent that was gamified where people were asked, you have to put in money. You have to stake whatever coin that is, I think. And then you have to try to convince the agent. Rob, if I get it wrong, let me know. But you have to convince the agent to give you 50k. Had someone managed to convince the agent to give them the 50k, it was gamified. So you have to stake your money. So you'd lose your money if you can't convince the agent to give you the money. And I think what you're talking about, Robby, is really fascinating. By the way, for anyone listening, I'm going extremely deep in the Web3 AI world.

I think we're just getting started. It's going to be pretty different to any other meme, not every other hype cycle we've seen previously with meta or gaming, et cetera, because it just moves so freaking fast. Elon talked about it in an interview recently about how fast it's moving, how fast the gpu efficiency is moving is is improving um and it's just breaking everyone's expectations um and i interviewed raul pal last week i interviewed dan warhead dan tapiero um and everyone brought it up

now um robbie essentially what you're talking about is the intersection of gaming and ai so essentially you gotta have all these and we're seeing that already, but you're going to start seeing a lot of these AI agents be gamified themselves or be incorporated in games as one of the utilities for those agents. Is that what you're kind of hinting at? Absolutely. Well, because I think gamification for a long time has pervaded all different kinds of applications. And so now we're just seeing it being applied to AI because essentially this is a way for

us to interact with bots, but to make it fun while you're doing it. Any specific projects that are doing that already that are interesting to you? Not financial advice. I'm asking for selfish purposes. I think a lot of people are trying stuff. I think actually at this point, we're so early that I think actually lot of people are trying stuff i think actually at this point we're so early that i think actually some of the things that are interesting are looking at um you know we've seen some projects that are working on building tools um to help uh people to launch agents of their own

and i think that's going to end up being being a big space because you know launching your own agent is not that straightforward but I think it soon will be. And so you're going to end up with sort of pump.fund style tools that democratize the ability to create these agents. There's been a lot on Telegram, but they're starting to bleed over into other platforms. And there's already a pump.fund for AI agents. I forgot what they're called.

We're kind, you know, we're kind of geeking out in that, testing out a few things there. I forgot what it's called. The team's looking into it, but there is a, I think it's like AI agent dot pump or something. Pump agent dot.

I'll have to look into it. If anyone's interested, I can send it through. But let me go to, to Gareth. Gareth, good to have you, man.

We're talking earlier before you jumped in, just about whether the, you know, it's the beginning of the out season and what you expect to see over the next few weeks and whether we start seeing more liquidity constantly flow into different outs. Because if you look at previous cycles, we're in the early stages of the out season.

We're just getting started, even though things look a bit frothy right now. So that's what we're discussing, getting your thoughts on that and any important headlines and interesting headlines that you want to bring up to bring to our attention.

Yeah. Hey, Mario. Good to be back. Good to have you. I've been on a few times and you've been missing in action. So it's good to have the man himself back.

I was in the States for a while. I came back exhausted. By the way, anyone, are you going to be at Bitcoin? I found out I'll be moderating the event, the Bitcoin conference in Abu Dhabi.

Yeah, Bitcoin Mina. Unfortunately not. I'm actually, I'm going home to South Africa for a few weeks, a bit of holiday away from the dark and cold here in the Netherlands.

So I'm missing, but our team will be on the ground. I'll connect you with our people. But yeah, just obviously going back to the question,

it does look like, you know, Bitcoin's kind of stalling a bit now and and that's definitely helping all the alts you know uh pump up pretty hard obviously what happened with xrp this weekend was just crazy and i think there were a lot of people out there that forgot about their xrp bags and and they went and they looked at some old wallets and they're probably smiling. I saw Chainlink had a god candle in the last 24 hours as well. I mean, if you just go look at any of your old coin bags, if you're holding, it's looking pretty green across the board. And yeah, I'm not a trader by any rates of the imagination as much as I'd like to talk myself up.

But I do think that the general consensus here or some of the sentiment is that we might not see a lot of upward price action for Bitcoin until we have a bit more clarity with what happens in the US and Trump actually coming to office in January. And maybe that's what's helping all the alts kind of pump up at the moment. Look, I'm not an expert and I'm trying to read as much commentary as I can on all of this. What clarity are they looking for with Trump? I wasn't in those spaces. So obviously, he's very pro-crypto, but to what extent and what what steps is he going to take in that space versus being distracted by more important things yeah i mean uh i think there's talk of uh the new sec chair being named tomorrow i stand to be corrected uh that that

should help things somewhat and then obviously there's how important how how how important is that how important is it i think it's i think it's massively important just judging how stifled the US crypto landscape has been under Gary Gensler for the past four years. And we know he's leaving office on January 20th. He's already announced that he's done. And whoever's going to be in charge of that institution is going to have a very big say in what happens with the industry, because we know firsthand what, you know, what sort of impact they've had. And I think that's part of the reason we were chatting about this early on in the week on one of the spaces. Part of the reasons why XRP is pumping again is the SEC's law case is basically winding down, you

know, there's $ million dollar settlement that still needs to be finalized but essentially it's like in the clear for ripple and uh to go ahead and do what they want to do with their stablecoin and xrp and maybe there's just a lot of general positive sentiment there but for me i don't know what's going to happen with bitcoin until trump takes office and senator lamas's bitcoin bill starts moving through the process of approval if it does ever happen and this is gonna be a very big driver for what happens with bitcoin next year right i mean like if if it gets the go-ahead and we know that the us government is going to start investing directly in bitcoin then i think there's into mega overdrive but for now maybe that's why we're seeing

a bit of an old season kickoff is everyone's kind of uncertain what to do with Bitcoin now. It's jumped up into the 90,000s and people are just hedging their bets and moving some tokens and liquidity around into other prospects that might be a bit more lucrative at this stage.

That's my general sentiment and what I'm seeing at the moment. Yeah, I appreciate that update. By the way, just kind of everyone that's trying to understand what's going on in South Korea, there hasn't been any too many more developments. There's helicopters going around the White House equivalent in South Korea. They call it the National Assembly. And I think the opposition leader is saying that the president is no longer the president. So that's the first time there's martial law in South Korea since 1980.

But essentially, they say that there's a coup now in South Korea. So I don't expect it to escalate. I don't expect this to – it's not related to North Korea in any way. And the markets have not – let me check Bloomberg Terminal. It doesn't seem to be impacting the markets. There has been, we just wrote a story on Cointelegraph now that the Bitcoin

to Korean won has slipped 30%, which is not exactly surprising, but there's a direct impact on the price of Bitcoin there as a result of what's happening. So again, just a reminder. Did you say 30%?

Yeah, 30%. That's right. Yeah, it's less crashed. Less crashed to 30%. How can you still... What about the Hang Seng? How's that doing? I'd have to pull it up.

Let me see, Hank. Yeah. Let me see if I can check the Hang Seng. But yes, but how do you still... I thought the markets... Yeah yeah, the Hank Sang is – obviously, the markets are closed now. So, probably that's why. Yeah, the markets are closed. But I'm not sure what the futures are. But, yeah, I'm surprised that you still have that.

The markets are a bit too efficient for such crashes. So, it's a bit surprising. Is it still down 30% there? No, it was a flash crash. So, it dipped 28%. And then it peaked back up to, the report here says roughly 130 million, one to 93 and then down back or back up to 126 million.

So yeah, a bit of a flash crash. And I'm sure if anyone was odd trading there, they might've made a big bag. Yeah. So just going back to the discussion, I just got distracted by South Korea. Just go back to the discussion i just got distracted by south korea um just going back to the panel here andre good to have you any thoughts on where the markets are right now it's good to have someone from bitwise always with us and also maybe good to get an update on how the

etfs are performing how they've been performing since the uh since november since trump won yes sure thanks for having me again i think from a big picture view if you look at the short-term etf flows etp flows in general what we've seen last week in particular was the biggest divergence between global bitcoin etp flows on the one hand and altcoin etp flows, right, which also explains this kind of alt season. So capital rotating from Bitcoin, obviously, because it's stalling, and into altcoin ETPs, right, especially Ethereum. I mean, we've seen the highest daily net inflows into spot Ethereum ETFs in the US, right, last week on Friday alone, above 300 million in net inflows.

So I think that's the general theme. And what's also supporting this is, if you look at on chain data, what many ETH BTC watchers, performance watchers are looking at is network activity, right. And if you look at relative transaction count between Ethereum and Bitcoin, that has actually reversed. So, I mean, Ethereum layer one only, not layer two. I mean, layer two is going through the roof, right?

In terms of transaction count, active addresses and so on. But like on layer one, ETH network activity has been outperforming lately and so this shift towards altcoins slash ethereum is also supported by fundamentals but i think if we look at macro i think macro wise um i think the biggest, and Raoul has been talking about this, right, is money supply, global money supply contraction, right? We've seen the appreciation of the U.S. dollar since, I think, October, especially since the U.S. election. because if the US dollar appreciates, usually global money supply contracts because all these foreign currency denominated money supplies,

they contract in US dollars. And I think that's one of the scariest macro charts out there. And if history is any guide, that should weigh on Bitcoin and crypto assets over the coming months. But I think that's just the demand side. That means demand may go down, may create some kind of buying opportunity because supply is still going down. I mean, the supply shock is still intensifying.

If you look at liquid supply, if you look at on-exchange balances, right right it's still going down despite this profit taking by long-term holders and so on so i'm still very optimistic um as far as 2025 is concerned and yeah because of this ongoing supply shock um and one another question how far are we from solana atf we had matthew Siegel talk about the odds being very high. Where do you stand on that? I can't comment on this, but... I knew you were going to say that. But yeah, I think the odds are very high.

I love when someone says, I can't comment on this. I've learned as an interviewer for years, you just go, you pause. So when someone says they cannot comment on this a trick for everybody just pause because then they feel uncomfortable they feel like they're obliged to comment and andre seems like a really nice person and then he commented i said the odds are also very high and i'm glad and i think everyone's the same i was about to turn my recorder on over there yeah and we'll see we'll see you on the front page of coin telegraph um yeah it's actually a good piece for you, Gareth. Andre from Bitwise saying the odds are – actually, let's not do that.

Let's not do that. Let's be nice. But yeah, so I appreciate that, Andre. Yeah, we did have Matthew Siegel say the same thing not long ago, a few weeks ago. So it's pretty good there. And let me just kind of go back to the markets as well, Florian, getting a macro view on where the markets are today. And then we'll go back to Robby on more different sectors that are interesting and anything's changed in your investment thesis, Robby. But Florian, your thoughts on the markets in general?

Yeah, thanks again for having me. Well, I mean, the melt up that I expected is continuing basically in all asset classes. Stock markets are marching higher. Bitcoin slightly stalling out below 100K, but it all looks like this will continue at least until end of the year, early January, maybe even until next spring. So no real changes here.

Yeah, I mean, the stalling out below 100K maybe is a little bit disappointing. And at the same time, seeing all these dinosaurias going suddenly through the roof is making me a little bit questionable, questioning the health of this whole market. But then again, I mean, it is what it is. is i think xrp going through the roof and then yeah people checking the old coins and realizing oh these coins maybe should move then as well probably not for any other reason than pure speculation um i wouldn't be surprised if we get a little bit of a pullback in bitcoin i think it would be healthy would be actually very healthy to test this this 80k uh former resistance which is now support um will it go there i don't know but that that that would be something i i'd love to see and obviously it would be a buying

opportunity i think overall the melt-up continues until end of the year early next year and then we have to see uh how everything plays out um and uh yeah so so one other question is, what would it take for Bitcoin to break 100,000 in your opinion? Well, I mean, we know that once Bitcoin is really in rally mode, it barely stops. I mean, of course, volatility increases and it's a breather here. But is there a certain catalyst that the market is waiting for, waiting to see the appointment for the SEC chair, for example? Or is it just a matter of time?

I think it's just a matter of time here. I mean, my target has been 100K and then 130, and I'm pretty sure we're going to see those two targets rather sooner than later. I think Polymarket is putting the odds. Let me see what the Polymarket is putting the odds about the 100k this year. Let me go to Robby. Robby, we always go back and forth on what your investment thesis is at Anamoco. No problem. We're still on our end. Again, we're co-investing a lot with Anamoco and others. We're still

investing very heavily on the VC side. We scaled heavily the meme coin department as well. Just fascinated by AI meme coins, among other things. And what else are we doing? Incubation. So I'm just incubating heavily. So the thesis hasn't changed on our end. Asset class, what now is really interesting to us, as you can see, AI is big, gaming is big. Not much has changed on that front either. A bit more focused on RWAswas where do you guys stand so as always you know we're uh using our investment thesis to experiment a lot across different narratives you know whether it's rwas or deep in or ai or the sort of flavors of the moment but i think the one thing nobody's mentioned so far since i've been on this space is NFTs. So in the interest of what's old is new

again, I'm really glad to see that NFTs are getting a little bit more attention once again, because this has kind of been a real long-term thesis for us that NFTs are kind of an incarnation of culture in tokenized form, and that they do have longevity. And I think if we see kind of some of the flows that have been happening, I do think that a lot of people who have done well during the meme coin season may be cycling some of that money back into NFTs because they had, you know, things on their wish list or bucket list that they wanted to acquire over time. And now that they're feeling a little more flush after a good meme coin season,

maybe they're buying that punk that they always had their eye on, for example. So that's quite exciting for me. Yeah, I'm just looking now. Okay, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, so punks have gone up 70% and ETH price relative to ETH has gone up 70%.

Obviously, dollar terms went up 150%. Bored Apes up 100% in ETH price, relative to ETH, has gone up 70%. Obviously, dollar terms have gone up 150%. Bored apes up 100% in ETH terms. Relative to ETH, Pudgy Penguins up 60, Mutant Apes. I didn't know that. I was looking at that now on NFT price floor. Interesting. So NFTs, PFPs are doing well, not just NFTs in general. I'm guessing NFT art.

How's NFT art doing? The focus that I've been paying attention to, at least, have been the PFPs because those tend to be the most active communities. So I think the thing about the PFP communities is the ones that have been around for a couple of years are very durable and committed communities. I think the art communities are less so because the art communities were more about kind of buy and hold and accumulate, collect, if you will. There's a slightly different utility there. communities are being leveraged for other things, whether they're now using them for gaming activations or IRL events, or whether you see now communities that have been built on the back of

meme coins starting to launch their own NFT collections as a way to give actual utility to what started out as a meme coin as kind of the hook to build a community. Yeah, I'm just looking at Mochaverse as well. Mocha Network seems to be holding up pretty well. I'm talking about the coin itself. The NFTs have been pretty steady as well. So congrats on that front. Gareth, have you been watching NFTs, Gareth?

Because I'm pretty surprised by the price action there. Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. I actually just wanted to ask Robbie about this. What do you think about the artifact news in the last 24 hours as well? Because everything else is pumping and then Artifact go and say they're winding down their services. What the hell is going on with that? So I think the problem with Artifact is really that it's more of a testament to how corporations are run than anything else, because obviously, we're in a very fast-growing and agile space where things change back and forth.

And a company like Nike is looking at things on a 10-year time horizon, and anything that happens in the millions or tens of millions is just a rounding error to them, and so probably doesn't get that much attention, which is a shame because they bought an asset which has a lot of mindshare amongst a certain generation of people in the Web3 community. And there was so much that they could do with it. However, what I am interested in is to see what happens to those communities who are the holders of those different artifact collections. Because the beauty of Web3 is that even if Nike decides they're no longer supporting artifacts and the team,

those assets still exist and those communities still exist. And so there's a huge opportunity, I think, now for other builders to lean in and say, hey, maybe we can do something really cool leveraging this IP in this community to service them because they're feeling a little abandoned. My question is, Robbie, how much did this... Sorry about that, Mario.

No, go ahead. How much money did they put into this? Was it a loss? Is it a question of cost and return on investment? Because, I mean, it doesn't seem like it would cost them that much and it's giving them IP and intellectual sort of, you know, like flex in the metaverse in general, you know. I think you can take these NFTs across multiple different protocols

and metaverse environments. So why would they choose to stop now? My guess is this probably has a lot of meaning to us because it was a big project within the Web3 community that had a lot of attention. But my guess is that probably the majority of people who work inside of Nike had probably never heard of it and that it was just a matter of hey we've got 36 bd teams and we're gonna just you know refocus this one because what are they working on what's what's that web 3 thing again and honestly i suspect it's as stupid as that that's my gut feel it's because it doesn't work like the the metaverse doesn't work. Decentraland, like, you know, 14 people utilizing it. Or it was just way, way, way too early. Right?

Even on the NFT side. I mean, like all these prices are pumping, but the underlying utility of all these things has not changed at all in the last year. Right? And the unfortunate fact is the people that are hanging out in the metaverse aren't buying sneakers. Right? It's people holding these assets. And we say community but in reality it's not driving sales it's not bringing

money to these companies and so you know if you're gonna like you know speculate and you're gonna hold on to dogecoin right that also doesn't have any underlying utility there's a internet community there that's a part of that that can just hold that asset forever and then a small percentage of people that come in and buy can drive that price up in perpetuity if the mind share is enough right the unfortunate i think the unfortunate part with companies is they just they can't wait that long they don't they're not die hard they don't have the people in there they're saying like i'm not gonna you know i'd rather lose my friend group and sell my dogecoin it's just a completely different dynamic it's certainly definitely a narrative type thing as well, because I saw Farouk tweeted about it like late last night,

and he said he had an artifact that, you know, one of these NFTs that he got an offer for like 120 ETH, you know, three years ago. And I mean, that's, my math is bad. I think it's millions of dollars, you know, like that is what some of these NFTs were worth that long ago. And I mean, let's be honest 2024 has been about bitcoin and meme coins like in my mind overall and how many people are talking about

nfts and like i'm not dunking on nfts or anything i've been covering the space for a long time and i have a lot of respect for a lot of the things that people are building but joe you're probably right it comes down to like the actual use cases and how many people are using and finding value from all of these different protocols and environments i mean look at v friends look at what gary did you know it was 20th at the top in in 2021 and now for price is sitting at 0.74 e right and like that's someone that has a huge platform it's kind of like it's kind of like when meta threads, right? Like they ported over a billion users, and it still failed, right? You just can't force these things. It has to be natural,

like TikTok rose because it was natural. It was a younger community, right? And so I think about it in the same way, where you're just not going to force these NFTs to be anything when literally the same technology, you know, you could use a, you can use Apple wallet, you know, to get into your concert. Right. And then when you go to the concert, you go to the event, people don't think about the event at all. Like they've got a couple of pictures, that's their memory. It's not the thing, not the NFT that's kind of sitting in their wallet. And so it needs more and different use cases. It needs to be more dynamic. It needs to be moved to the background, right?

Like if we want voting on a blockchain and it's an NFT, we shouldn't talk about the NFT at all. We should just say this is a safe and secure way to do something. You know, it's the same way when cloud came, you know, these companies, everyone's utilizing the cloud or AWS or Google cloud, but you don't say you're a cloud company,

just like most companies shouldn't say they're an AI company if they're just building on top of some LLMs. So I think it's, again, it's just a little vaporware moment. And if you zoom out and look at the charts and say, okay, there's 100% increase in vFriends against like where the floor was,

zoom out and look at it, it's still down 96.3%. On that point, I think we've discussed, I was going through the different NFT collections. Someone did tell me one last question on NFTs before we move on. Gareth or Robbie, NFT art has performed better than NFT PFPs if you look at this year as a whole.

Is that correct? I'll defer to Robbie on this one. I was going to pass the book to you, Gareth. To be honest, I don't really look at art so much. Yeah, so someone was telling me that art performed much better than PFPs, and they held their value a lot more. I'm talking about the early Fidanzas of the space, the autoglyphs and stuff.

So just something interesting there. the you know the early the fidanzas of the of the space the autoglyphs and stuff so um just something interesting there but uh on our end obviously uh we haven't been we haven't done anything really in nfts we just held our bags from the last cycle um and just waiting for gaming nfts to finally get the love they deserve but i'll just keep waiting maybe in the next cycle um let me go to to um um next are you guys uh here nexty next city sorry next city are you there yes we are yeah your mic is really bad so i'll let you fix the mic in the meantime on the south korean front just for people listening there hasn't been much development there since this we've talked and you know on my other account the team's doing a space on that covering it but there's people protesting on the streets going around the governmental building, the presidential building.

The soldiers are trying to break into the National Assembly building. Yeah, they're breaking into China to enter the building to implement the martial law. And there was South Korean military pointing guns at citizens during martial law. So just fascinating images out of nowhere. Suddenly there's a martial law in one of the most solid democracies around the world. And first time since 1980. And obviously we saw helicopters above the presidential building, whatever you call it. I keep forgetting what you call it. The General Assembly.

So there's helicopters there as well. So we'll see where that develops. I expect the situation to end, to ease up in a few hours. But I could be totally wrong. And hopefully we don't see any movement from North Korea as well. So we'll see where that develops. I expect the situation to kind of to end to ease up in a few hours, but I could be totally wrong. And hopefully we don't see any movement from North Korea as well, Taren, take advantage of the situation. But going back to crypto and Nexity, hopefully your mic is better. How are you? Can you hear me well? Much better. Where are you based? Currently in Romania, where you've been, I think a few weeks ago. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was interviewing Andrew Tate.

I used to have an office in Romania for one of my other companies. I used to go there all the time in Bucharest. I love the country. You're originally Romanian, yes? That's true. Nice. Good to meet you, man. So let's talk about Nexity.

We talked about RWAs very briefly. We all had assets. I was at a panel with Gary Cardone. That's where I interviewed all the guys in New York. I think it was Tapiera, Vanek, who I also interviewed, Rand, and Dan Moorhead from Pantera as well. But yeah, so I would love to get kind of,

just for anyone listening, what is Nexity before going into the nitty gritty? How would you explain Nexity for the audience, Nexity Network. Briefly, I will start with a quick backstory on how we got to this point. We are working on Web2 solutions since 2018 together with my partner and where we provided cloud computing services

for the automotive industry. That's where we built the initial network of clients. And after getting into the Web3 as investors in 2021, we decided to work with some of these companies from our database and find a way for blockchain to be integrated in their day to day activity. RWA was not a thing at that time, and we didn't necessarily define us in any vertical. We analyzed our clients' operations, created a pilot group,

and we found the best fit in sourcing, buying, and paying for their assets. Those were some major global problems at that time through the supply chains as well. So it was the perfect fit. And within that framework, we offer them a comprehensive solution to tokenize trade documents, tokenize the order lifecycle, and B2B payments as well. Of the automobile industry? We spin off from automotive to multiple industries. At this point, we have retail, food and beverage, construction, so lots of other industries since the inception point.

Okay, so you've expanded into all those industries the use case varies per industry no that that was especially in in at our stage we focused on on creating something that uh works across the entire, let's say, in more traditional terms, the entire procurement department. So most of those industries have similar procurement needs. Of course, as we grow and we develop more our product, we want to create, for example, specific contract libraries, specific purchase orders and things like that. But most of the things on the contracting side, the trade documents are similar. So, yeah, we...

So what your focus is, all these different documentations, the settlement part of the transactions is all happening on-chain. This is a solution that you're offering for all these different industries? Yeah, so we are creating snapshots of trade documents and upload those snapshots on chain to be transparent, secure, and so on. Most importantly, we help them track the order lifecycle from contract to when the payment is done. And we also handle the uh the payment side okay so where is

the so what are the advantages of doing it on chain versus off chain you've got the the immutability of it as one big one but then how do you i'm sure there's somehow within your chain um being able to reverse it if needed or edit the the transactions if you upload a document incorrectly you can edit it i'm sure that that's there but they're still so how does how do you how do you be able to balance that immutability with the ability to edit documents if you upload the wrong thing um and then what are other benefits of being able to do it on chain the efficiency aspect and not sure if liquidity is one of them as well. Yeah, those things are definitely important, but we saw it from a different perspective.

Because our solution can be used internally, we didn't want it to focus on management, purely operations. That was the plan from the beginning. And when it comes to operations, usually multiple parties are involved in a contract or in an order. And their anxiety and their problems usually appear when they're trying to exchange information or share sensitive data with other companies. And blockchain has this ability to create trustless environments to do to do so so that's where we see the advantage and the natural upgrade from from cloud you have an environment where you can work with work with party with different parties without

needing the trust involved and in terms of how we balance actually hey just two seconds you've already onboarded 500 companies we actually have 700

at this point holy shit okay that's impressive we actually have 700 at this point. Holy shit. Okay. That's impressive. Okay, so you've already got 700 companies using your platform. How active, so what type of companies do you have? How active are they? What's your revenue model as well?

And how profitable are you? Just kind of give me some metrics. That's actually pretty impressive. And where are those companies based? We are operating in eight European markets. The biggest one is obviously Romania because here we know we have a very substantial network of partners. We grew on a network effect.

So since 2021, when we had like 20 companies in our pilot group, we focused very heavily during the bear markets with no direct interaction with the Web3 space, just pure business development with a traditional business model in a way. So it can be called Web 2.5 because we charge, we have a modular subscription model and we also charge a 0.3 fee per transaction. So that's how we basically grew based on network effect. And what type of industry?

So obviously you're covering all these different industries. Which industries are your clients mainly coming from? Automotive is the biggest one because there we have most of the connections. But the second one is retail. We have a very comprehensive mixed panel space where everything can be seen and visualized in terms of how many clients we have from each industry by plant type, how many of them are enterprises, all those things are very transparently projected in the mix panel. Interesting. And you're doing an ICO on spores? No, that's actually not actually correct.

A lot of people asked us what's with that. Yeah, because it's on CryptoRank for some reason. We never put that out. It was a discussion. We said we might do it. We don't have a contract signed yet, but we'll notify the team to do something with that. Do you have an ICO date yet? Yes, not necessarily a date, more like a range between January 15 and beginning of February. We have some interesting developments in the pipeline that might affect a lot the TGE. So we want to put all our efforts. We know we have one big shot and we prepared a lot in the last three years to not make a great TG Interesting, yeah

Cool, I'm just telling the team to ignore that So yeah, I'm starting to look at our notes here and who's who you're talking to Obviously everyone's talking about ask you about sports because on crypto rank But you're talking to pretty much all of them and you already can i say the ones you've confirmed or it's not public yet we don't have we don't have that public but we have conversations with all major uh major launchers in the space republic probably uh even though it's a tokenized uh crowdfunding with up to 1 million that will be synchronized with with the idea okay and how much have you raised so far at this point i think we have 1.53 million in total that you've raised or you still have in your treasury yes we we raised since 2021 to to date and did you raise when did you when did those rays come in when did you raise that point whatever million? It's a combination between equity and token.

Anything raised this year or in the previous cycle? We raised this year a corporate round where some banks were involved, angel investors with experience or past experience from Apple, ASML, BMW. So we got lots of angel investors at experience or past experience from apple asml bmw so we got lots of angel investors at this point how do you how do you balance it but how do you balance the value if you raise so so all the equity investments they come with a token warrant not all of them some some of them are coming with with token warrants some of it it highly depends on each each investor and they're interesting in the token side because we have this traditional approach.

There are a lot of people that, and we have revenue as well. At this point, we crossed $140,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Lots of people are interested in that side. So why not capitalizing on both? Can you go through the utility of the token? Yes, we actually have a different approach on how we see utility. For example, I'm sure all of you are familiar with token terminal, where you can see the revenue

each infrastructure is generating. Obviously, Solana is now a monster with one million per day, I think. So what we want to do is create direct links between traditional metrics like MRR and other important KPIs with the token utility. So we are committed after DTG to do monthly buybacks as similar to how centralized exchanges operate. We'll do monthly buybacks with our revenue each month to add a steady flow of cash in the market. We'll optimize our profit margins to 71% as the target by February. And we made token utility growth month over month on how our revenue will evolve in the next 12 months

and how it will impact the token's price as well. The other things require too much context to go right now, but we basically created staking portals, farming portals. We also have a deppin marketplace and because we already have all these companies all these products and and contracts that are are moving through our our platform we also want to create liquidity pools for small businesses that's a massive problem in in the traditional trade all those big companies all

those big companies give 30 60 120 days payment delays so we we want to solve that issue and yeah that will impact the token utility as well but requires too much explaining to do for those that are interested in learning, happy to direct them to our tokenomics. Another question I have is, how do you compare to other centralized SaaS models? Like when you talk to a business, you've got the 0.3 transaction fee you mentioned earlier. What does the pitch look like when you speak to those businesses?

Because you've onboarded 700 of them, so I'm pretty impressed. We don't necessarily use blockchain directly as a competitive advantage we made the transition from a traditional system to blockchain and cloud one very smooth and

at the same time with payments I already discussed briefly in the other space on how we deal with the payments. So initially we wanted to go full on chain with the payments. Circle was very open to help us with their infrastructure, Circle wallets, bank accounts for businesses, everything. But it was very hard for them to include those transactions in accounting. So at this point, we integrated 15 European banks. Basically, all major European banks are integrated right now. And all the payments can be done through their bank account natively.

So that was the biggest point to make the transition very smooth. And we also see blockchain somehow operating in the background, not necessarily something that you put in front of the user and force them to understand how it works and all those things. Sometimes they don't even feel that there is blockchain anywhere in the platform.

I appreciate it. And last question I have, man, is what valuation are you doing the TGE at? What's the FTV? Yeah, the FTV is very low. 8 million right now. We'll see if we need to adjust that

because we secured a token subscription facility and that will impact how things are going. We're looking for a loan with that token subscription facility as collateral. We already have some conversations with liquidity providers. So things might be changing changing the following weeks but 8.8 million is right now i appreciate it cool man love what you're doing impressed by the metrics i know you've got tge soon and hopefully you'll

disclose the launchpad and the exchanges um soon as well glad to be on your cap table so i appreciate that what was your name sorry catherine catherine i appreciate you coming on the show appreciate you going back and forth and again congrats on your metrics man um for everyone else listening you can check out nexity they're on stage and their title their name is in the title as well um and for anyone else that's still trying to find out what's going on in south korea there's a space on my other account talking about the developments there. But I'll let you... Oh, the space just crashed. The other space crashed.

The South Korean one. I'll see if the team restarts it. But otherwise, yeah, see you again tomorrow. Really appreciate it. Thanks a lot, everyone. Bye-bye.