The Wolf Of All Streets - Are Bitcoin And Ethereum Competitors? w/ @SkillfulAI | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

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Joe, it's been a while. How's dad life? A little lack of sleep going on over here, but trying to, you know, I've probably increased the coffee intake a little bit more than I would like. That's a natural part of the parenting process. Yeah, that dark roast, a couple extra espressos, but it's good, man. How are you? You're not snorting it yet, so that's good. Are you fighting anyone? No.

I heard Rand dropped out. So, Mario, if you need someone, man, I'll take their place. I'm 5'10", 165, decently athletic. Mario, Joe just – I don't even know if he's here. I know he'll be here at the end, but Joe just challenged Mario. I love it. Now I've got to go in the WhatsApp group and make sure he shows up. I know he's going to be here later.

Oh, man. Joe just challenged you to a fight at Mario. I love that. I would love to see you guys fight. Did Ran even reply? Yeah, no. Super friendly. I would love to see you guys fight. Did Ran even reply?

Yeah, no, super friendly. I'm not. Yeah, Ran replied. He has an injured shoulder. Yeah, right, right. I don't know. Like, you know, yeah, something. His ankle hurts.

He's tired. He's got kids. I mean, I can't argue with that. I have zero interest in like uh finding a stranger for a sport how old is mario is he in my 20s much he's probably 34 he's 34 okay i'm 38 so it's not i'm 47 i would say like unlimited downside one of the girls in the fight in Austin at Karate Combat named Spelly. I actually met her in Dubai.

She went for a kick and her knee just completely collapsed. Totally on her own. It was a whiff. It was perfectly fine and just absolutely destroyed her knee two minutes into the fight.

I'm 47. She's probably in her 20s. Like, can you imagine you just throw that one errant kick? And like yesterday I went to the gym for the first time in 16 days and my hip just like decided not to work at the end. But literally it's like, okay. You're getting like all lightheaded on like your normal workout. You're like, why can't I breathe right now? Yeah, yeah.

The cardio is fine. I just feel like some random part of my body is going to spontaneously combust. I can't even play golf because of the destruction it does to my fingers and tendons. I don't think that I'm at the age for fighting. Certainly not going to fight Mike Tyson. We got Ran here. He can defend. Ran, if he can hear, I'm going to wait until he connects.

I wish that Mario was here because, man, Mario will be here later, I know for a fact. But, yeah, I'm trying to get Ran to connect. Ran, Joe said he would take your place and fight Mario. I mean, there's a lot of people who want to fight Mario, a lot. In the office, just in my office, like 20 people are like, put me in coach, put me in coach. You were trying to get Sheldon

in there, I think, I remember, right? Sheldon would destroy Mario. Sheldon would, Mario would be, Sheldon would destroy him. I'm afraid of you South African guys. Never know. Mario, would you take on Sheldon?

Mario is going to be here in a little while so we're just looking at his face how does it feel to not co-hosted by a not by a bot I'll go hosted I mean if Mario is willing to take on Sheldon I think we've got ourselves again I would I think that'd be a fight how much does Sheldon way do you think how big is he you guys do like I wouldn't give him anything he weighs more than like 65 kilos maybe 70 so that's probably I think that's in the same ballpark as Mario that could be a fight could be a fight we did the good thing is we can propose anything we want right now and he's not here to defend himself can we get Sheldon on here talk about Mario Sheldon would destroyio like just i mean the part of town

that sheldon comes from it's uh they grew up throwing beer bottles at each other bro yeah i'm good i see how i'm passing i'm passing on the beer bottle fight anyways ran you'll love the title bitcoin near record 74K today. What will happen next for Bitcoin? All right, here we go again. What would you do on your show today? Seriously. I'm having fun talking to my guests, but if I had to create like alpha or narrative,

like obviously you guys are very good at, like I would be lost right now. I actually spoke about the beginning of phase two of the bull market. So I think we are going to break the all-time high. I think when we do, that's the beginning of phase two of the bull market. I think phase two of the bull market is characterized by decreasing interest rates, increased liquidity, ETH, BTC turning around around and less focus on meme coins and back to focus on quality.

So I think that that's what phase two actually looks like now. Will it happen today, tomorrow? I don't know. But I think we're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah, I keep hearing the phase two term. I do think we break the all time high as well. Like I said, we said

maybe not today, tomorrow, I wouldn't even be surprised if we really don't get that phase two until fall like in the normal cycle. Are you thinking that's a June or July thing or still sort of an October or November thing? Um, no, I think it's before October, November. I mean, I think August ish, but it doesn't really matter to me. Like why? Because semantics, semantics, whether it's happens this month or next month, I'm having as much fun now. And anyway,

I'm not planning on spending my money in the next three months. So like, like I, it doesn't matter. I know it's happening. I know, I know there's any like i know there's an election i know interest rates are going to come down i know that um liquidity is on the increase i know that there's been two very big days of etf inflows and that could indicate that we're in phase two of the etf inflows um yeah actually enough, if you want to know what I did on my show today, my title, my thumbnail of my show was huge crash started. My title of my show was the biggest Bitcoin crash has just started.

That was what I did today. Very triggering. And you know why? Because I inverted the chart of the triggering and you know why because i inverted chart of the head and shoulders that i inverted the bitcoin chart the inverse charge regular killer yeah david you had a comment yeah we we spoke this morning relating to crypto we spoke about uh robin hood's acquisition of Bitstamp. We spoke about rate cuts, ECB after the Bank of Canada yesterday, ECB cut rates today. And then just how the far left seems to be for, especially in the legislature further and further out, um, out of the universe that everybody else is in. Uh, there was a letter sent yesterday, um,

by Elizabeth Warren, uh, the squad, Bernie Sanders, uh, to the sec that its climate disclosure is not enough. Climate disclosure rules is not enough on the same day that the SEC gets smacked down in the Fifth Circuit in terms of the disclosure rule for hedge funds and private equity funds on their fees. So, you know, in terms of, you know, all that stuff, I think we are, we're building. And the last thing that we spoke about that relates to this is NVIDIA eclipsing $3 trillion of market cap joining Apple and Microsoft, who seem to be headed in a different direction. NVIDIA just seems to be parabolic to the upside, going to go ahead and split their stock on a 1 to 10 basis. Tomorrow, start trading on Monday.

And if NVIDIA, which is a chip, can go parabolic, the software, crypto-related protocol should be able to go parabolic as well. So it seems like for the next couple of months, we're setting ourselves up for some meteoric rise. I like that. Joe, what do you think outside of fighting? Where do you think we are in the cycle here? Sorry, Joe Vizzani, and then we'll go to Joe Colasari as well, since I said Joe. Yeah, no, it kind of feels like everyone's feeling a little bit more bullish right now out there. A lot of the, you know, the industry leaders out there, you can kind of see them posting about stuff, you know, and on Lunar Crush, we're always seeing all the top

people getting a little bit more bullish in the sentiment around Bitcoin specifically. I mean, there's some interesting things that I've looked at, right? Like in alts, like, you know, no one's really talking about like BNB, but BNB sitting at 715. New all-time high. I did a full show on it actually yesterday where I said like we were all sleeping and BNB went to an all-time high. But the one thing that you'll see about Bnb is that the ecosystem hasn't run yet so the meme coins haven't run yet pancake swap hasn't run yet venus uh bakery swap none of those have actually had like gone on parabolic runs yes exactly so it's that's an interesting one that's kind of

snuck up on everyone it's like how like suddenly bnb sitting there it's like cz went away and everyone kind of thought oh what's going on it kind of missed the last meme coin run and now it's sitting there with just i mean how much liquidity is over there and the entire infrastructure set up to do so um you know so you might see some builders trying to get over there and and start running but i don't i don't know if anything necessarily of quality and utility is being built over there. So it'll probably just be a meme coin craziness for a couple of weeks before it cools down again. I saw a tweet yesterday.

I think it was, it was quite funny. It said, uh, BNB's biggest holder is in jail. So it's a forced lockup. So, I mean,

I'm not laughing at the fact that he's in jail. Cause I think that that's pretty sad. But I do think that that is quite a humorous take, saying like the biggest holder is in a forced lockup. It's like Mt. Dock's creditors for the last 10 years. Forced lockup. Zach, then Eladio. What I'm looking at right now is what seems to be some fragmentation in the market i think first between bitcoin and other things if you look at the recent

price action it seems to have been driven somewhat by etf flows or spot buying and you're not seeing the same rise in alt but i think the sort of bigger division is between you know major tokens in general so bitcoin eth solana and there's actually meme coins and then the private markets. And I think the private markets right now continue to be sort of incredibly bearish, people raising incredibly high valuation, sort of series A rounds. And I'm wondering what's going to happen when all of that supply comes onto the market towards the end of this year or early next year, and all of these AI slash crypto tokens, the RWA tokens, all of these infrastructure narratives flood the market, and what is that going to do? And do Bitcoin and ETH care about that? Is that

going to cause a crypto crash in general? Or is that just a separate secular trend than the price of the big tokens at this point? I would love your thoughts on that, actually. Lost them. It's interesting, Zach, I think in the past cycles, we had enough new retail involvement at the time that those launches started happening that there was buyers, but it seems like meme coins have taken a lot of the shine so far this cycle from people who maybe would have been pre-sale or VC token, whatever. I think that's partly that, but I don't know if this is your experience, but like many, many more sort of individual investors that I think would have been the public buyers of these

tokens are now in the giant venture rounds, right? Like it's, you know, they call them like a series A because there's a precedency to whatever. But really, these are basically late stage venture rounds, sometimes at multi billion dollar valuations. And I think there is dumb money that thinks that it's smart money that are like signing token warrants at these absurd pre launch valuations. And like last cycle, they were the ones to buy the tokens when they were public. I don't think that's a bad take at all. I think that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, when I had, I spoke to Arthur Hayes a few months ago on my podcast, and he said that, you know, at Maelstrom, they had stopped deploying basically in 2023. Right? Because they thought that everything

that was being funded now in 2024 was likely to end up with either bear market vesting or just too much hype and high valuations. So that aligns with what you're saying. But Scott, real quick, I mean, there's definitely a delineation between your average MetaMask investor that's investing in VLO and someone that's able to sign like a token warrant and get into a pre-seed round. Like those are two very different classes of investor. Sure. But my point is there's also a real difference between an institutional investor that's able to get into a pre-seed for a good project and someone who fancies himself a good investor who's getting in two rounds after that at an enormous markup that's still going to be locked up for a year post-launch of the token. Yeah also a completely different two different ladders of

investors of different people like i think retail though is still not completely back yet and that's why you know we're probably going to continue to see kind of like the meme coin craziness versus more like a utility kind of craziness yeah the same old people it's the same old people right i mean it's just the same washing machine of capital, crypto degens having fun. I don't think we've seen outside of like spot ETF buyers, which doesn't triple down. I don't think we've seen any new retail interest basically in anything. But that was kind of Rand's phase two argument, right? Is that there could be a flight back to, you know, everyone has their own definition of

quality, but more like fundamentally sound or larger projects. I mean, Joe, did you align, do you believe in what he was saying there? Sorry, Scott, I had a call come in. What was the question? No, I was basically saying that aligned with what Ran was saying with the phase two, right? Because he thinks that there'll be sort of a flight to quality or, you know, I don't know what the correct terminology for it is. But I was just saying, we haven't really seen any new retail, I don't think.

You have the meme coin washing machine, you have the Bitcoin spot ETF people, but everything in between and the barbell just kind of hasn't seen new capital. I mean, you look at most of the tokens from last cycle, they're still down 90%. Can I ask you guys a question? Go ahead. No, go ahead ahead i have a much bigger concern but maybe finish this point and we'll go into my

much bigger concern yeah i think retail is they're they're around and they're they're looking right but i just don't think they're back in the same wave of this kind of you know what i'm talking about is like the the robin hood white collar investor coming into crypto and like that subset of people that can have such a huge impact on the markets, because they're looking for like, they don't really understand meme coins as well and how to invest in those. Right. And so they kind of need like a utility token that shows, you know, hey, the next new launchpad, right, or, you know, like, they're going to disrupt AI in this way or real world assets, like they need something to wrap their mind around to really, like put $10,000 into something. And so

I just don't think we've seen that, that yet. But are they really stupid enough to buy at the valuation, these things are going to launch at understanding that half of the supply fully half is an overhang for insiders? I don't think most of them understand. I think your point is right. But I think that if there's enough hype around something, retail buys it. Right. I mean, in the last cycle, nobody took even a peek at it. Maybe we're starting to get some mainstream awareness of fully diluted value versus a current market cap and the concepts that you're kind of bringing there. But I think most people just buy on hype. Last cycle, there just wasn't the same. And I think some of this, sorry to get into the weeds a little bit, was driven by different understandings that lawyers

had drafting these documents. Last cycle, even for insiders, there was not the same concept of everyone needs to be locked up for a year. The way that I participated as an angel investor last cycle in a bunch of different projects, because you can get liquidity quickly. And that's wonderful. I think it is different now, where we understand based on the telegram and kick cases, you really need a 12-month lockup from TGE. And everyone is on that same train. And everyone's going to unlock at the same time, because the investors insist that the team can't dump before them. I think that's what creates, I think it's just fundamentally a different market structure for these private tokens this cycle than we saw in 2021.

Actually, I've seen that they're offering larger unlocks for KOL rounds, largely non-Americans, obviously, because some projects have actually said, we'll need the supply and we'll need the liquidity to have some sellers expecting those people to dump. It's really, it is really different this time. Ran, well, I guess I'll ask Eladio and then Simon, and then we can go to Ran's bigger question.

Yeah. Hello, everybody. Wolf, it's the second time I've had the pleasure of listening to you. Other gentlemen by the name of Tiger. I consider some of the best people in crypto in terms of information because that's just not my cup of tea. I'm more a traditional asset, you know, a buyer of assets. But I will say one thing. I know we had this conversation the first time we spoke, Wolf.

And I still see, look, you only have $3 trillion in total market cap, I believe, in cryptos. You have that same amount of market cap on NVIDIA, and you have a $50 trillion stock market. I still think this is in the early stages. I agree with Tom Lee. He may have been a little premature with his call on $100,000, but it looks like to me everything ended when Gary Gensler lost this lawsuit against Ripple. And that's when we also coincided with the idea that we're getting close to an end in tightening of monetary policy. There's no question that crypto is tied to liquidity. And the more liquidity that the

monetary arms of the developed countries give, the more crypto is going to rally. It started with the GFC when we implemented the same program that Japan implemented with quantitative easing. And there's no question that it is a risk asset. Gold is a $15 trillion market cap. But compared to the stock market, it's still $50 trillion U.S. stock market and market cap. I think there's a tremendous amount of growth in crypto. And I think the winners are going to be the big four. Bitcoin, Ethereum, now with the ETF, Ripple's coming next, or XRP, and then Litecoin. After that,

I wouldn't touch any of the shit codes. To me, it's no different than buying SMCI and thinking it's the equal to NVIDIA. It isn't. I agree with everything you said until we got to XRP and Litecoin. Okay. But maybe you're saying they'll be next to get an ETF? Is that what you're saying? Probably, probably.

And that gives support. That's correct. Negative zero interest in those assets versus the newer things, newer, shinier things, for better or for worse, that are hitting the market.

Now, you have had in the past, Gary Gensler himself, before he was chair of the SEC, say that those four things were commodities. Actually, I think he may have said Bitcoin cash, but it was Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, and I think it was XRP. But that was before he took the stage as the head of the SEC, I just don't see those sort of dinosaur assets with minimizing use cases and less interest becoming the next ones. But I think your point generally is well taken about where the market's headed. Can I talk about two things? I want to talk about two things.

One is, I don't know if you guys saw the Van Eck report on east yesterday the one where they said that the price target is 74 000 right or is it 134 or 174. now they said it's going to get to 22 000 by 2030 they said yeah but did you dig into the whole report so they said that was the base case the bull case was either 134 or 174 i think it was 174 and the bear case was like 360. what was what was more encouraging for me is that they're pricing this thing like a tech stock and so like they have like it's just they're in a comfortable place with eth which they weren't with bitcoin they understand it's users it's revenue per user it's acquisition costs per user it's gas fee spent per user fees etc they're pricing this like a sas product which for me was like it's like amazing

that's that's that's exactly what we wanted and it looks like it's that's right we're finally framing this properly i've said this a hundred times i said it on my youtube show i love triggering bitcoin maxis for my own entertainment, but I don't understand why Bitcoiners get so angry about every other token. It's like a gold bug being pissed off that somebody also likes NVIDIA, right? And so when you frame Ethereum like NVIDIA and not, and I do understand the stupid argument that Ethereum is ultrasound money and whatever, that is dumb because it's not a competitor and should not be viewed as a competitor in those ways. Bitcoin is obviously superior, but you have Bitcoin and then

you have a huge market of VC tech investments and people are starting to understand that framing and they're just non-competitive in my mind. So you are correct. If that's the way people start viewing ETH accurately, regardless of the supply or any of those things, because it's not Bitcoin, in my mind so you are correct if that's the way people start viewing eth accurately regardless of the supply or any of those things because it's not bitcoin then they're starting to get it because that's the way we've thought about it forever it's got real quick it has nothing to do with fundamentals from why people can't change their mind it's pure psychology cognitive dissidence confirmation bias like social pressures has nothing to deal with like any technical yeah i mean like i said you're not in a tweet today like you're not even a bitcoin or if

you own a house because you should have used that money to buy bitcoin you should live in your hardware wallet obviously like live in your ledger or shut the fuck up you're not even uh you're gonna get kicked out by the maxi council go ahead ran no i'm just glad that they that like wall street seem to understand it better than they understand bitcoin or better than they can ever understand bitcoin well maybe it actually is easier framing for them because of you know the way that stocks trade yeah i think i think there's going to be that there's going to be an season that's going to start an old season. I hope. Yeah, I think so too.

But, you know, that seems to be the most hated and disappointing narrative so far. Simon? Yeah, I was just going to shift slightly on the Bitstamp side and tie it into valuations. It was quite shocking to me, actually, the valuation that Robin had paid. So they reported it at $200 million. At Bank to the Future, we did early rounds for both Robinhood and Bitstamp. But we actually exited our shares in 2018 at a $400 million valuation. I was going to say it seemed low.

That's what you're saying, right? $200 million cash. Yeah. Like a, like a, like fire sale. Yeah. I mean, we already exited for 400 million in 2018 and they just sold in 2024 for 200 million. So to me that, that, that implies just a bunch of founders that are fed up, got some kind

of regulatory capture, and then they're trying to bring the valuation. I mean, Robinhood must have been smart in their valuing. But isn't it interesting that one of the most early to get the regulations right in Europe exchanges can only be valued at 200 million in a bull market? I mean, it just seems like a massive anomaly and then that kind of brings it back to the the reality of look at the liquidity premium that people are paying just because these tokens uh and then you realize that that's where all the value is is pump and dump um because it's just the ability to sell quickly that's driving those valuations.

But yeah, I thought I thought that 200 million, that seems like an incredibly good deal for Robin Hood. And I mean, what a great move to your point by Robin Hood, if they're trying to move into Europe, they're already like a lot of regulatory clarity with bitstamp buying a huge brand name entity there. And Bitstamp is where I think European institutions have largely traded, correct? I mean, that's at least the impression.

Yeah, I'm not sure if Simon heard heard but a lot of you go ahead yeah one of the things that uh that should concern longer term crypto investors i like the architecture of creating individual uh um etfs that are specific to one uh cryptocurrency like in the case now of BTC and Ether. But I'd be worried about, again, the Larry Fink ETF syndrome where everything is market weighted. We've seen a period where we've never seen so few stocks control the indices. I mean, 493 stocks are just there for the ride. And then you have 10 stocks that are basically the whole return. I think it would be very ominous. And again, I don't like tremendous regulation. But if I were the SEC, I would not approve a market weighted type of ETF that has

all of the cryptos, including the shit codes and have that type of situation because, you know, we're already at 50 something percent of all the flows in the market weighted indices being passive flows. And I think that would be a mistake. Don't worry, that's not going to happen anytime soon. And I was just going to say like that is not even on the docket. I don't think they were reluctant with the Bitcoin spot ETF. They're seething over an Ethereum spot ETF and the sort of forced approval. I don't think, certainly under this regime, that we're even going to have a conversation about another ETF. But maybe I'm wrong.

But listen, things can change in November, certainly. But I think right now, that's not going to happen. But one day, a properly indexed, I think, crypto ETF that's not going to happen. But one day, you know, a properly indexed, I think crypto ETF or fund would be a very successful product. But I think the industry has to mature and grow quite a bit more before that, Fred. Yeah, I just wanted to add, you know, so I've been going back and forth on when the bull market's going to start. Is it you know, I've been thinking maybe it's going to happen later this summer as opposed to kind of the more normal situations where you see end of fall or you know early 2025

but and i thought the tide was turning a little bit on the sec reversing course on ethereum and whatnot but i want to i still think it's good news that we are getting a little bit of a tide turning politically but I would caution everybody to keep in mind that the SEC is still going to keep fighting back. And one of the things is yesterday, you hear Gary Gensler say, well, it's still going to take some time for this Ethereum ETF to get going. So I just, everything he's done, I see that as a couple month delay, even maybe more than that. I like that. Yeah. Slow running that because I think it's, well, you know, I got heat, I got pressure.

And now what can I do to make it seem like I'm doing something without doing anything? And I'll tie that in. I checked, you know, people on here might remember that our law firm has a case against the SEC for the Ethereum question, is it security or not? Two other cases filed, both out of Texas. There was the Layla Jex Crypto Freedom Alliance case. That was filed in, I think, April or no, February of this year. The SEC filed a motion to dismiss. Same thing they did in my case, which is get out of here. We don't have to answer any questions on crypto or authority or anything. That briefing schedule is not going to be done until October. So you won't get a decision on that until end of 2024,

early 25. So that case is on ice for a while. And then the consensus versus SEC case also in Texas, the court there wanted to consolidate that with the case I just talked about. And both the SEC and consensus are like, no, let's not do it. You don't have the opening briefs filed by the SEC there, which, you know, I still think they're going to try and push that one out and say, we don't have to tell you. And I say that because they could easily file something with the court saying, oh, because of this Ethereum ETF, we can at least tell you right now that Ethereum is not a security. And they haven't done any of that. Could they still be trying to figure out the details behind closed doors, obviously. But the fact that they haven't done any of that yet, I think is telling. So, you know, I'm starting to, I keep going back and forth, but I'm going back now again, towards the end of the year, early next year on what's going to

really kick off the next parabolic rally, because we've still got an SEC that doesn't want to play ball and is still clinging to, you know, their attempt to just bulldoze the industry. Frank, why wouldn't they drop those cases now that there's the Ethereum ETF? And I think everyone sort of understands that means that the SEC cannot take the position that ETH itself is security. Separate question for staking programs. But if you continue this litigation, even after the win with the ETF, don't you risk setting bad case precedent where, you know, a judge decides very narrowly why, you know, ETH meets the HEMN logic, but then closes the door to other stuff? Like, isn't there real presidential risk? There's risk there, but I think it's

unfounded in the sense that we, you don't have the SEC admitting that Ethereum is not a security. And I say that by there's a lot of arguments out there about if this ETF is approved and it's not. So you still have to remember that we've got half of the applications approved. We don't have the S1s, so we still have room for shenanigans. But you can have an ETF be comprised, obviously, of a basket of securities. I mean, that's mainly what most ETFs are. So there's language in certain applications that it's part of a commodity trust and whatnot, but there doesn't have to be a decision that really says what Ether is one way or the other.

So that's still this open- But the approval specifically references the commodity trust designation. It does. And so, you know, you can, you can say, okay, well, we're going to pick that that's favorable. And, you know, it very well could be when you get everything together, but it's almost like you have to kind of think of it like, you know, when a bill in the U S has this Congress and then the Senate, and then they're kind of close, but they're not quite close.

And then things are going to get ironed out before the final bill goes to the president's desk. And so – and this is – I'm saying this from the mindset of this doesn't normally happen when people apply for ETFs. So that's why I'm throwing a lot of people for loops. But until the SEC makes a final decision, you don't know what they're going to do with the S-1s or how they're going to try and say, no, let's redo what the, you know, before registration statements were. It's just a whole huge mess that is kind of being kicked down the road without a lot of these final decisions. And so, you know, you just don't know.

And yeah, you know, the other side is, so for my case, for poor precedential value, if we lose at the appeals court, you know, because it's on a motion to dismiss standard, you know, we didn't even get to the merits. If we lose, then, you know, it's just over and nothing really happened because the status would be, you can't sue the SEC on these questions. You got to wait till they make a decision. The thing that would really kill the industry is if, well not kill, but really hurt is if the Ninth Circuit says, yeah, you go back to district court. Now you fight it out with the SEC over whether Ethereum is a security or not. And then, you know, if we were to lose that, which I don't really think we would, but if we lose that, then that would be terrible. But even that in itself is,

once there's a decision, that's another year, year and a half down the road. And hopefully, there's another bad scenario here, right? Like, even if you I agree, I think that you guys would win on the security, I think it's just not. But the it matters why ETH is not a security. And there's a version of why ETH is not a security that sets a roadmap that lots of other projects can follow. And there's a version of, you know, like, listen, we let this one slip, and then it became so decentralized a la Hinman, that it's gonna be very, very, very hard for any sort of startup created token to follow. And I think there's a world where you could win this case and still end up setting precedent that sort of pulls the ladder up behind ETH for going from a security status

to money status. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, I think unlikely, but it's definitely a possibility. And I would just say that, you know, the bottom line for all of these things is it shouldn't be HODL's law responsibility or Coinbase's responsibility or ConsenSys's responsibility, you know, to get these things fixed. It should be Congress that just makes it easy and gets it done. So the hope would be new administration or different type of people in the same administration, you know, depending on what happens, fixes it legislatively, because this is not the way to go is fighting it out in court but when you're kind of in that situation i mean i don't i don't blame uh everybody else you know coinbase consensus these um crypto alliances for going down this route but yeah i mean it's

definitely a concern but i would say it's a smaller one smaller are you two are you two lawyers billing us for these hours for this this conversation? $900 an hour, baby. Oh, Tal, you're that lawyer, bankruptcy attorney. Why don't you jump in and bill us? I got to jump in. God bless Fred and Zach. Like, true to form, you guys are rational, thoughtful, sensible. This SEC is batshit crazy.

The fact that they closed down an office in Salt Lake City yesterday because they got their head handed to them and their staffers are doing anything and everything, fraudulent, criminal, otherwise, in order to go ahead and put people under the gun, I mean, speaks volumes that, you know, again, God bless you guys. You're trying to do this in a thoughtful manner. I believe this SEC is totally unpredictable, totally on its own romp. We'll do whatever it wants. And yes, they definitely have to go. I mean, they definitely have an expiration date, you know, as of, I don't know, call it December, even before, you know, there is an inauguration. These guys are out and we will get a new agenda. They'll get a reset. Thankfully, the legislature in this country seems to be heading in the right direction, at least the overwhelming majority. There still are, like Dan Sherman, there will always be people out on the fringes, you know, on the left. But at the

end of the day, the majority of Congress seems to be getting the joke. The judiciary, I think, is generally in the right place. The president, I don't think it matters at this point. I can't tell what Biden's going to do next, if he's going to veto the next thing or not, or stand pat. But, you know, this SEC is totally berserk. You guys should save your breath for people that are worthy of those thoughts, which I think we'll get in a couple of months. Also, shout out to Jason Gottlieb, who managed to take out an entire SEC office with the debt box case. That was incredibly well done. Yeah. And that judge, man, what was it, an 81-page decision just to say the SEC was fraudulent? That man should get a deal toy to rival all others.

He got an SEC office shut down, which is incredible. Astounding. I completely agree with David. The SEC, I mean, look, be careful for what you ask for, Winklevoss twins. You got your ETF. The question now becomes, is the SEC creating ETFs so they could find a backdoor into regulation by calling the actual structure of the ETF a security that's under the 1940s and 1930s securities law to have more control over the asset rock has made and fidelity and vanguard and invest go with all of their etfs have made our our our flows more passive than they are uh individually individually managed and and i i again i think david is right we're running they're running out of time and that's the best thing we

have going for us that they're running out of time this This particular SEC is going to be out. Simon. Yeah, I was just going to say, also on the European side, in case you missed it, might markets in crypto asset regulations. They've stated all stable coin issuers, they need to register to be regulated in Europe by the end of this year.

Otherwise, they'll hold them responsible for any European person that uses a stablecoin. In terms of where they're at, so I think kraken reacted by saying that they're considering delisting um tether if they can't meet that requirement and uh circles actually read regulated in france um but you still have to register with um the the mika side and meet those requirements and i think they're going to put it semi in line with travel rules where you need to know, you know, with every transaction, you have to bring the actual details of the recipient and the sender with the transaction. So that's probably a pretty big systemic one in the Europe side europe side we go to what all right that'd be my issues but uh mario yeah right yeah i'm here i'm here man um but let me

let me know when uh skillful ai is not on stage yet we can bring him up in a bit um so let me know when the discussion is over and i can have a back and forth joe joe challenged you to a fight he said he would uh hold on Hold on. Joe Vizzani? And then Rand came on and said that Shelton was the system. Did you say – all right, let's do one by one. Did you say Joe Vizzani? Yeah, Joe's here. Oh, okay. And he said he would just absolutely whoop your ass.

I don't see him. He said he would brown house your face. I don't see him right here. You would never be able to dance again. Yeah. You would slur on twitter spaces because of the damage i don't see him on stage so just uh thought i'd let you know oh he literally just left as i was saying it yeah exactly man see everyone everyone chickens out when when it comes to facing me and who's the other one uh uh the sniper but that was that's right using it so that's like exactly imagine me

paying an employee that i have to fight you scott that's like one of the most disrespectful things i'll do it's like a king a human shield a human exactly exactly um so it's a king fighter king um so if if ryan wants to step out look i've got better things to do as well my nine-year-old daughter my nine-year-old daughter said she would fight you. I'm glad Joe Vizzani left. He's back. I don't think so. I was booted.

He's gone again. I don't know what's going on, man. I have no idea what's going on here. Let me see this skillful AI up on stage. What was the discussion today, by the way? Actually, let's keep Joe. We talked about turning you uglier that's what that was the conversation today bad of a beating you're gonna take in singapore skillful skillfully i've just tried to say you guys an invite uh bring up skillful ai um and

what was that well tomorrow we're gonna do the shit coins by the way we looked at the returns yesterday we're talking about the celebrity coins um the team sent us through in a group and the returns of all celebrity coins i think that'll make everyone here because most of you probably didn't touch them um because we've seen all the big returns but it's very easy to say like hey that one went up 500x or 600x but you have to sell at the top and buy you know at the bottom to hit those numbers but if you held them bought them and held them yeah the numbers are scary low. I'm just trying to find the numbers now. But you've lost money on all of them except Biggie's. Specifically Jenner, Jenner, Mother.

Yeah, so there's a few of them there that the team put together. We'll discuss that tomorrow because I think it's just a fascinating concept. But there's a few of them. Jenner is down. If you put $1,000 in Jenner, it will be worth $175 now. At lunch. I'm guessing. So if you put um i'm guessing so if you put a thousand dollars on day one yeah shit that's ridiculous if you put a thousand dollars on day one jenner will be worth 175 rich which is by rich the kid never heard of that heard of him

it's worth 473 david oh again i don't know who that is, but worth 165. Floyd Mayweather did one. Holy shit. It's worth 42. Everyone knows Floyd is just a pump and dumper. It's worth 42. Moneybag Yo is worth 44. That's $1,000.

Troopy Red, the Bandlecoin is worth 41. If you put it in day one, by the way, everyone, day one. And Mother by Ige Azalea is worth $5,000 so that one's sitting at a 5x so if you put in all of them you'd obviously have lost money and that's if you put it all in on day one now

there's obviously a lot of money to be made on buying in the beginning and selling at the top but obviously this you know anyone with a brain knows that this is just gambling

at its best we are going to talk about it tomorrow we're going to get a few shit coiners on stage and have a discussion I think it is an important discussion to have. We got to get those people. We got to get Money Baggio and Rich the Kid.

By the way. And Soldier Boy. Yeah, yeah. Let's tell the, yeah, yeah. Let's get the, let me tell the team now to get that. Invite,

it's for tomorrow. For tomorrow, invite all people behind these coins and the celebrities. Important. Jenna's already in. And yeah, so that's just about these coins.

Oh, by the way, I'm not sure if she's joining tomorrow, but she already reached out to us for a space. A long story how that happened, but she reached out to us for a space. We had to cancel it for breaking news, but we're rescheduling it.

Also, another thing, there was a shitcoin. So I pumped a shit coin by accident yesterday there was a shit coin a meme coin that was launched by someone that burnt himself i don't know if you saw that he he lit himself on fire as part of a prank so a lot of people what they're doing now i was just reading an article about it and they're launching meme coins they're trying to do crazy pranks to get attention to let the people meme coin pump some stupid pranks some of them work and what one person was doing i think he he doused himself with whatever gasoline i guess and someone lit a firework on him i don't know what they were thinking and obviously he lit him on fire he was

in hospital in icu the token pumped like crazy and then collapsed i forgot the token i don't care about it worth it if you're so on top sold the top listen man there's some things you should not make a joke about but i'm just trying to protect you to himself to make money you should congratulate him and applaud his efforts so so he's alive thankfully he's doing he's back to working on it um but the the thing is so i someone sent me the news story it happened days ago like it's an old story so i sent it to my news team hey can you make it can you look into it see if it's legitimate and post about it because sounds like a crazy story so my team my non-crypto team posts about it they don't put the contract address i don't even know what a contract address is i don't think they even call the token name so they just post

about it as a story it goes viral two minutes after we posted it pumps and goes all the way up to 9x and obviously back down now sitting at 4x from when we posted about it so i unintentionally pumped a meme coin for the record you're gonna get a call from gary bud sorry yeah it's d gary i don't know who gary gensler so for anyone that calls out people that buy shit coins and pump and dump um i didn't even know about the coin never bought it never spoken to the guys um but uh i pumped it so i'll get credit for it but we're gonna talk about that we're gonna talk about how um there's just a lot of things happening in the shitcoin world

that we're not covering here but I think we should do at least one episode every couple of weeks just kind of dig into all these different trends they are interesting whether you like them or not but for talking about shitcoins I think you're

now we're going to move on to proper projects VC investing we're still investing heavily today we had two projects launch and they did pretty well we had let me tell what they are

to make you jealous because you're the one that was a bit more skeptical when it comes to and it should be because they're still not doing that well. But Alteverse launched today sitting at about 5x from our launch. And then we had Leica AI, which also got invested in and that was sitting at about 7x from launch. And that's despite market conditions. So anything 2x or more is actually pretty impressive with the market conditions now. And another one that did really well, really, really well, a skillful AI launched a week ago. I think you're invested as well, Scott, no? I am. Yeah, yeah. Lucky you.

So me and Scott are both invested in that. Wordpress of AI, buddy. They had me at the catchphrase. Yeah. Just like the remember the old days still works. I still like it now. The Shopify, the metaverse. I still think it's going to work out. It's going to blow up when the time comes. Especially with the IKEA news when it comes to the meta out. It's going to blow up when the time comes. And especially with the IKEA news,

when it comes to the metaverse, they're now hiring people to man their metaverse shops. IKEA is doing that. We posted about it yesterday. Anyway. And even in the metaverse, it's impossible to build their furniture or to move it after you've built it

without it falling apart. All right. So moving into the discussion here with Skillful AI. Guys, pleasure to have you guys. I want to dig into it a bit further because it's just a bit unique what you guys are doing i try to understand it going through the website i've got a few questions but i'd like to ask my questions because i think the audience will be thinking of similar questions so you guys just listed you guys did pretty damn well you've

got some of the best launchpads you got cd phi and order phi cd phi is backing you guys who's unmuted just make sure mike is muted zolta and that's yours man it's on mute when you're when you're speaking so you guys did really well um very successful launch highly in demand you know we we invested any every cent we could get and um it worked out really well so i'm going to dig into the sex of the exchanges you guys had and how did you manage to get that support in that community that you have but let's start with the basics. What is Skillful AI? Hey guys, good to be here with all of you today. So let me just start with a little bit of a backstory here. So an example where we like to start here

is actually a personal experience from within the team, from the development team. So when all of this uh i guess chet gpt uh era started a couple of a few years ago you know we all started to use it as well um but especially for developers when they um when these are just whoever bro whoever's making noise around you just tell them to stop so we can hear you properly okay is it better someone's moving yeah it's good just make sure whoever's moving stuff around you just tell them to throw a shoe at them hey go ahead continue please man yeah okay so um they have been starting to use

all these ai tools like especially chat gpt they they experienced a great uh increase in productivity well you know they raised some concerns. So some more people had were concerned about using it, because essentially, what happens there, while you are refining the output, and obviously, talking to it, and making it more and more and more and more and refine what it gives you back, essentially, there is a possibility that you're giving your skills away to it. So, as you probably experienced as well, in general, like today's AI is locked in

a kind of a black box. So, we're not really sure what's happening under the hood, what's happening with the data that you are inputting to it. In general, they're too general, leaving specific needs unmet, way too complex to personalize for an everyday user and also to monetize without extensive technical knowledge. And again, so let alone the security and the privacy.

Rosaltan, there's a lot of points made, so I want to go through them one by one. Because you talk about the monetization, the security aspects and the customization. The first one is the customization, which is interesting. So what you're saying,

and I'm going to try to understand it and dumb it down for myself, which I think the audience will also appreciate, is what you're saying is a general chatbot is just too standardized that it won't be able to be customized for each user, where the future is a world where each person,

at least for some use cases, they'll have their own personalized chatbot. Did I understand that correctly or I'm off the mark? Well, in a way, yes, that's correct. So in the future, anyone could have, and it's easily weird. Like, for example, with something that's skillful AI, easily weird, personalized chatbots.

And yeah, we find them easily the current ones now what I meant here is that you need like extensive technical knowledge to to refine them basically okay so essentially what you do is you simplify the process of refining customization customizing's AI chatbot, correct? Yes. Or chat AI solution. Okay. Well, that's part of it, yes. Okay.

So that will be use case number one is like you simplify it. And I want to actually dig into Scott's description of your projects, like the WordPress for AI. That actually is a good way to define it. So essentially, let's use it as a comparison to websites. You don't have – so if you want to create your own customized website, is that for your own use or for customers' use? Is that more of a B2B solution or B2C solution?

Well, it could be actually both in our case as well. So it could be for your own use. It's really your decision when you're creating one on the Skrill for Layout platform. It's when you set it up, it could be an addition of several or up to like even several hundred. So it's something that you can monetize on if you are capturing a skill and this is what I wanted to get to.

So essentially what you can do here is easily just with a visual drag and drop interface where similar to either VIX or like WordPress, as you said, I really like that. This is not something that we came up with, but we should have the WordPress of AI. So you can build that easily, encapsulate basically your real world skills

and bring it into the AI realm, digitize it and essentially scale your knowledge through this platform. Interesting, interesting. And then the second thing you said, the WordPress of AI is honestly a cash flow. Scott, where'd you get that from? Did they, they said it to you or you made it up?

No, no, no. It was an article that was written about you guys, but it was a perfect description, right? Oh, you sure? It is, I think it was in an article that we wrote that, but I really liked it using it ever since it's unfortunately not our own. Yeah, you should, yeah.

I thought it wasott's one i was gonna try to get you additional it's mine i'm taking credit for it and if you mention it again you pay copyright it's my tokens um yeah so so i want to dig into the trust and privacy aspect of it and then i'll dig into and why blockchain like where the blockchain comes in so one of the other things you've mentioned the customization is one which i understand wordpress of ai this makes it easy to customize either for your own personal use or for B2B as a B2B solution. The second

one is it improves or it allows for further trust and privacy. Can you explain why that is? How does that keep the information, like obviously the data that it's learning from you, the data that you feed it, that skillful AI allows it to remain private, whereas other centralized AI solutions are not private.

Can you explain that further? Yeah, of course. So partly, this is something that we are developing, but we are also working on this with some partners. So for example, we have a partnership in actually developing a POC and an MVP together with Nelion. So we're using blind computing in this system. And you can essentially think about it in a way that you are able to interact with an LLM and get data back from it. Like, for example, I'm able to interact with an LLM or an assistant or agent that you have built without me seeing

the data completely. So there is obviously solutions for that and we're utilizing a few of these, one of them on the first one being Nelion. So it is completely your data that you use to refine these models as well. So it's not like you're using a GPT store, for example, from one of the big guys, and then you don't know what's happening to the data. And that's where blockchain comes in.

And Nelian, in this example in particular, that you are able to completely own that, and therefore you are able to monetize it in several ways also. Okay. And then if you move to the set to the more important question is where does the blockchain come into it fit into all this well there is um yeah several several parts uh why we chose to why we chose to uh use blockchain here one of them is being obviously the security, what we just talked about, but also ownership and being able to,

so using the capabilities of blockchain technologies to being, to giving the users the ability to monetize these and also to incentivize users in a way, but also using decentralized GPUs so we have partners and lots of partners let's go let's go okay so it's got one by one sermon so you got you talked about privacy you talk about monetization he talked about decentralized GPUs so let's go through the first one privacy so should just claim for the audience how does the

blockchain allow for privacy that centralized solutions don't? You there, man? Yeah. So how does a blockchain allow for privacy? So, for example, if you are using one of these solutions, like let's say in our case, and bringing million is a million as an example so you are uploading a document here it's going to be um stored stored on the blockchain so it's basically tied to you completely so you own that piece of data and then it's going to be distributed in a way and it can be pulled from

or can be even a model trained on it without anyone else having having access to it and it's still um still in your your control completely okay so so in terms of privacy um and then the so essentially when it's stored on the blockchain through um i don't want to go into technicalities of our stun there is no central entity that owns it that can connect that data to you directly so you're not sharing your own personal data it's fed to the to the to the uh language uh the the the language model through a decentralized manner that doesn't allow for the data to be linked to you and to be to be accessed publicly. So there is no way for any central company to know that this data belongs to you personally, but it's still used for the learning process of the of the AI. Correct. Yes, that's correct.

OK, and then the second one is monetization allows different forms of monetization. How does a blockchain allow for that? Okay, so for example, again, you would be, so in our case, for example, when you or a user create an AI agent, basically how it works is is you pick a base model, pick all the tools like either payment gateways or any of the tools that you normally use for the model to be able to perform tasks on it and then also do some refinement on your own data which we

just discussed recently and all of this is basically assembled and encompassed and an nft is used as a key for example and as we discussed earlier you would be able to do like a one-off edition which is like for your personal use for example or you can have several editions where you could use our marketplace it's also coming up soon and then where all of these assistants or agents can be rented for example or bought for lifetime. And that's also happening, utilizing blockchain. Let me ask you, I want to dig into the last one. So just to go through, privacy is number one. So it just allows you

to feed the language model in a way that doesn't link it to you. So it's just a decentralized way where no one can connect it to you. So it's just feeding it data in a private manner. Number two is monetization. So it allows different forms of monetization. You talked about accessing it through an NFT as well.

And then the third one is decentralizing GPU, which is pretty easy to understand. The GPU is necessary to run AI, and that's one massive centralized aspect of the technology. And if we manage to decentralize that, allow for privacy on the blockchain and monetization on blockchain, you're essentially building the entire AI solution on the blockchain, which is immutable and cannot be destroyed, cannot be accessed. And it's private. So you've essentially created your own personalized custom-made AI on the blockchain with the information being private, not linked to the user, with different forms of monetization.

Again, all on the blockchain, immutable, and with the GPU power decentralized as well, which means there is no single point of failure. Did I encompass the use case? Okay. But then I want to link that to something else you said, and that's the customized, the branded AI. So is that kind of like when you create your own AI solutions, like a WordPress website, you create your own WordPress website, you call it whatever you want. So when you create, and anyone that's old school remembers WordPress, respect. These good old days. Magento, anyone remembers magento

massive respect and i come from i come from that world um but if you go to to um a branded ai so essentially you do all the above everything i've just talked about and then you've just branded it with the whatever your client's name is that what you mean or is it more than that no so the branded branded ai is more like it's very similar to what we talked about up until now except there is a verification process and a little bit of a little bit of a different or a few extra steps in refinement so for example rented ai let's say there is a there's someone who is a creator for example or a publicist so going through all the same step except there is a verification process and you can also upload uh or connect or your for example youtube channels all of your

publications all of the stuff that you've been publishing recently so it obviously trains on that and then we're also building up to having a real-time uh 3d avatar even at the end of it. So, for example, you can ask questions to the same person, like, I don't know, name, just any influence. So I'm actually, funny enough, something I'm working on with a team right now, we're talking about it this morning, is to create, look how many comments you have in the space, Scott. Must have had a pretty fired up space earlier

just looking at the comments. It was all about you, I'm sure. Okay, just going back, Zoltan, I don't know, maybe the use case does not, skillful AI cannot, doesn't apply for this use case. But we're talking about doing a daily video, a news video, okay?

Where we go recap daily news in a video we post on my ex account. Then the team's asking me whether I could film that myself. I'm like, guys, look, I really don't have the time. I'd love to do it. I actually enjoy doing it, but really don't have the time. I'd love to do it. I actually enjoy doing it, but I don't have the time.

And then we came to the conclusion where I'm going to be in LA in a couple of weeks for the filming of the show, the Shark Tank, the Killer Whales. And they found a studio there where I actually go there and they create an avatar and use AI and obviously consume all the data of me speaking to create an avatar AI version of myself that will be able to read the news.

Are you saying that something like that could be used, skillful AI could be used to create a customized AI version of myself on the blockchain with the avatar, or that is not the solution that applies for skillful? Well, yes. Eventually, yeah, that would be, so this avatar would be a component of a branded AI, yes, in our case as well. Okay. And you have a wallet feature as well? Yeah, we are integrating a wallet feature as well. It's probably going to be someone,

a third party that we are using just to handle all of these assets. But for example, the NFT marketplace is going to be something that we are building on our own. Nice. And can you give us a bit of an update on your progress so far? Because you guys had a very successful launch. How did you get all these different investors? Let me go through some of the investors. Let me check the list here. All right. You got FounderHaz.

You got London Reels. Alex Becker is there. You got Almeida Research. Is that Almeida? AI. AI. AI. Oh, AImeida. Come on, Mario. It's AI with capital I. research is that alameda or alameda yeah yeah oh ai mida come on i've got bro it's a i with capital i uh dash mida it looks like alameda and like an arabic version of alameda research

anyway avalon ventures is there ibc group is there jesus christ you guys are doing whoa um x capital is there crazy Biggest VC in the space. I remember when Donis used to have to read IBC ads in his spaces. He loved that. I didn't know he did that. But going back to the question, you got some great VCs, some great launch buyers, and you listed on some top sectors as well. You went on Bybit, QCon, and Gate. And you had a really successful launch

considering market conditions. Very successful. So congratulations on that. Thank you for allowing us to join our cap table and benefit from that. But can you tell us more about your launch? How do you have so much success? And I think projects that have success

with these market conditions is very different to when projects do well during a hype season. Because when there's a hype season, people just throw money at every project because everything is pumping. But during times like this, investors, including us, just speaking out of how we and others in space invest,

we're a lot more careful. And we're investing for about, probably now we're investing about two, maybe two, three projects a day, but much smaller check sizes. Before it was like four, five a day in bigger check sizes. So we're being a lot more conservative. projects a day, but much smaller check sizes. Before, it was like four or five a day and bigger check sizes. So we're being a lot more conservative. And so it means that whenever we invest, we've done our DD. So if you've performed that well during market conditions,

that's a really big vote of confidence. Can you tell us more about your launch? How did you get it that successful and what your plans are moving forward? Okay, so in terms of the launch and back back to the back to the investors as well so i think uh a major part of the success it comes from just uh us um building this in the way um just you know thinking or keeping the normal web3 uh web2 way of thinking uh in the front basically and this is this is how we do basically everything so in some of our some of our investments around we made sure that the community or like um if you like the smaller people probably not the right word but they all get a chance or got a chance to uh invest along with some of the companies like for example i made a research that uh that you uh mentioned they

reached out to us as well they are a research firm consisting of about 30 people. They are all publishing on the field of AI. And I think mainly that we reached out to lots of communities and yeah, everyone is just basically thinking the same way as we do, that we should, you know, if we have skills that we acquired, you know, over decades of working in a specific industry that should be able to be monetized and not taken away when when you know the new

area of ai comes and this is what we represent and moving forward we are actually ahead of time in terms of development we have a great team We don't actually have any problems with acquiring talent. So probably by the end of the year, we're going to have a fully functional suite of everything that we talked about. And then starting off next week, it's going to be weekly updates, basically. Some of our tools in a way of a model hub where you can interact with several LLMs at the same time that's already available um and everything is everything is going according to plan yeah nice i'm just looking at um see if i can find you on my call market i'm trying to look at some of your metrics and volume and stuff um you did well but i don't know what your flow is in your your ftv i can't find you i'll find you afterwards.

Yeah, I'm not sure. You've got to check on CoinMarket. It's not showing, but I know you just listed. I'm trying to find the volume. I'm sure it's doing well. Okay, let me see. It's there. No, it doesn't have it. Volume, volume, volume. 24-hour volume, 400k.

Not bad, considering. Not bad at all. I'm actually impressed. Let's see if I can get the seven days volume. That would be interesting. What was your volume on day one, on day of launch? Because that kind of gives me an idea of the amount of traction you guys got. Do you remember the volume on day of launch? On day of launch? No, I actually have to look at it as well.

All good. Yeah, congratulations, man. Again, I appreciate you joining the show. It was a good discussion, just understanding the benefits of customizing your own AI solution, your own virtual assistant. So it's kind of a tailor-made AI. The advantages of that, including the privacy aspect of it,

the monetization aspect, and the risks. I think there's one thing we didn't discuss, but we'll discuss in a future space, but the risks of having non-customized AI solutions. So that's something that's not discussed enough. Everyone talks about the risks of centralized AI solution, like chat GPT kind of controlling the ecosystem.

Other concerns, like obviously privacy is a big one. Copyright infringement is a massive one. But then the last one is the risk of a general solution for all rather than having a customized solution for different users and different clients. So that's something that could be discussed in a future show. But I love what you guys are doing. You guys have had massive success.

And I'm glad to be on the cap table, be part of the journey. Any final words for the audience? Yes, thanks for the invitation. It was lovely being here and then keep following what we are building and all the things I can promise if we're going to keep pushing as we did up until here. Yeah, and Skillful AI is listed on Bybit,

KuCoin and Gate as far as I'm aware. No Bybit, actually. MEXC, Gate, and then Dex as well. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry. I don't know why I said Bybit and KuCoin. My bad. You went on Gate and MEXC, and then you've got the –

There's the volume here, 250. Yeah, obviously Dex. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dex. So my bad. There's no Bybit and KuCoin. So it's the investors I went through, but I got the sexes wrong. But the launchpad I got correctly.

And you didn't go on CDFi. Okay, that's a really interesting one. And what's your strategy with the sex? So you want to, there's a few projects now going on, like Gate gets a lot of volume already. So they just, they don't worry. I think during, when markets are quiet,

there isn't much demand. They don't look at launching on too many sexes. I'm seeing that more, happen more and more often. And they kind of wait for They don't look at launching on too many sexes. I'm seeing that happen more and more often. And they kind of wait for the market to improve before they launch on more sexes. Is that your strategy as well? Yeah, that's exactly right. Were you initially planning to launch on more sexes and then you changed the strategy when markets slowed down? Yeah, not just because markets slowed down, partly because of that but also we would like to have secondary listing when we are

closer to releasing the full suite as well in terms of like product as well nice when is that going we're gonna have all this one like q4 at some point this year okay cool cool that's when your beta launches you don't have a beta out yet do you what we do have we do have a few alphas, we call them. It's good. It's available now for several thousands of people. Probably between 2,500 and 3,000 people are using it already. It's a model hub and we're making constant updates to it and it's going to be available for the public very soon and definitely for at least the shareholders. I'm glad I asked. I think that's a very important piece of information.

I'm glad I asked. Cool, man. Well, I appreciate coming on. I'm glad you've got some organic demand for the token that's not speculative. So you've already got people buying it for the actual use case. It's good to see. And again, really happy to be part of the journey. Really appreciate coming on.

And it was a good discussion. We'll see you again on a future show. Otherwise it's a good discussion we'll see you again on a future show otherwise for everyone else we'll see you again tomorrow as well no tomorrow's saturday isn't it hold on no tomorrow's friday my god somebody already punched you honestly bro like you've been quiet the whole time i thought i was hoping you'd be gone it's the only thing you say i just thought i'm just concerned about your brain in this fight man all right cool i was planning to join you and support you in tomorrow's show, but you're on your own again, man. Nice one.

Well done. I'll be happy with you. Leave me for the meme coin, celebrity coin. Oh, shit. No, I got to be for that one. That's the one I chose. Yeah, that would be epic. All right, guys.

Really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. See you tomorrow. Bye.