The Wolf Of All Streets - Are Crypto Prices Correlated To Presidential Election? | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Crypto Town Hall is a daily X Spaces hosted by Scott Melker, Ran Neuner & Mario Nawfal. Every day we discuss the latest news in crypto and bring the biggest names in the space to share their insight. ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. USE CODE ‘2MONTHSOFF’ WHEN VISITING MY LINK.  👉 https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   ►► OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $10,000!  👉 https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

What a perfect panel for me on a day that Mario is not here. James, Matt, Dave, Jonathan, Paul, my favorites, all my regular YouTube. I think I've talked to all of you guys via video like in the last three days. Half of you guys. James, it's like we never left, man. We were just talking on YouTube all of 40 minutes ago. Yeah. Good to see you again, Scott.

Let's go. Yeah, we have a lot to talk about. The most important today is probably it's Shiba Inu's birthday today. Is that a thing? We were just arguing. We were just debating in the background whether we should continue to do five minutes of meme updates on The Daily Show. Anyone want to take a bet on which side of that I took? Wild guess.

So, yeah. Anyways, but hey, man, we got to speak the topics that matter for people here the most and for better or for worse, that actually is a very apparently compelling and impactful topic here in crypto. Listen, Matt, since we've got you here, we always love a good update on what's happening with the ETFs and flows. I've actually been rather impressed that Ethereum has not dumped epically with Grayscale having 2 with grace because i can't hear a thing i'm talking can you hear me guess not because that was a pretty dumb question

yeah i know you guys can hear me i'm just taking dave down he'll go out and come back in so so matt maybe just a quick update you You know, on the Bitcoin spot ETFs, we saw that kind of drop from 49 to 39 in relatively the same amount of time, about 20% drop. It is underperformed, but not so badly. Yeah, it's been pretty impressive, particularly since, you know, $2 billion has flowed out of ETH. The pace of flows out of ETH are fast and continuing to be fast. I think there was $133 million out of ETH yesterday, and we had negative net flows. We've had negative net flows if you include the ETH withdrawals on, I think, five of the last six days. So it is impressive that ETH is holding up.

I think the market realizes that this too shall pass on the ETH distributions. And at the same time, we're seeing positive inflows to all of the new major products. I think BlackRock, Fidelity, Bitwise have had positive net flows every day since it launched. And long term, I feel confident that's going to overwhelm things. So yeah, ETH has been holding up well. I think it's looking forward to the third and fourth, you know, the fourth quarter of the year when all these tailwinds come home to roost. So pretty positive.

Yeah, it's seemingly very positive. Do we have any way to gauge how much of the ETH outflows are going back into the other products or leaving the market? There's no direct way to figure that out. But you could assume some of them are going back. I mean, there are two examples of money that leaves a product like ETH that doesn't come back. One, some of the money in there is not long biased crypto money. It's arbitrageurs who are playing the premium discount trade pre-approval. And that money just exits and needs to be replaced by, you know, net new buyers. And then the other thing that people overlook is that, you know, even if you bought ETH on the premium discount trade and you wrote it up, you're sitting on significant gains.

And if you're in a taxable account and you sell it, you know, a portion of your money, sometimes a significant portion, has to be set aside to pay those capital gains. So you get some rotation. I know anecdotally, from, you know, Bitwise's sales operations, that there are many people who did not own Ethereum before the ETF launched, who now own Ethereum, we can see that in the sort of verbal trade confirmations that we get from advisors. But for sure, some of those billion plus inflows into these new products is just making a fee swap out of ETH. So it's a little bit of both, Scott. Yeah, that's what I assume.

So you kind of just hinted at it. You and I spoke about it both for the street in person in Nashville and then on my show the other day. But you hinted at this sort of expected flows in Q3, Q4. And I think it's important that we keep hammering this point home, the insight that you have on where the sort of next wave of capital may come from and why we're bullish on that. Yeah, 100%. People keep asking me, what's the next thing in crypto? It's more BTC and ETH flows. As you and I discussed, I expect the major wirehouses like Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, UBS, and Merrill Lynch to come online in late Q3, early Q4. I don't have any sort of magic window into that, but we do have discussions

with people all the time. And I think that's the emerging consensus. And that's just a huge unlock. Those platforms control trillions of dollars of assets. Right now, they can't buy these ETFs. I think the market is less than 50% open and will be fully open by the end of the year. So from that framing, these unlocks are as important as the launch itself.

It's not going to mean immediate flows. There's still a sales and education process once those platforms allow their advisors to solicit for these ETFs. But it is really multiple trillions of dollars opening up to these ETFs for the first time., you know, multiple trillions of dollars opening up to these ETFs for the first time. And again, I think the timeline is, you know, late Q3, early Q4, depending on how discussions go. One last question, maybe not last question,

but we saw in an interview with Zach Guzman, Hester Pese recently said that she could see staking being added effectively if we saw a change at the SEC. So what I think one of the quote unquote criticisms or just something discussed was that to get in line and get these things approved, the issuers basically had to say there would be no staking in the ETF products for now. And that caused a lot of people to say, well, why would you buy an ETH ETF if you can buy ETH and stake it and actually earn a yield? Now, obviously, a lot of institutions can't do that. But how much of a game changer do you think it would be if we saw regime change, Hesterperce even temporarily there or someone else that's more, I guess, knowledgeable and crypto friendly. And with time, ETH was added, ETH staking was added to these ETFs, a yield. Yeah, I don't think we need to be even crypto

friendly. I take crypto neutral at this point would be an upgrade. Yeah, I think that's a help. If you can gain an extra 3%, people will like that. And it will remove this question of should you buy directly or should you buy the ETF, which is a real question for people who are comfortable owning ETH directly. Look, this is a controversial take, but maybe. I think like the Bitcoin ETFs are the lowest cost way for large investors to access and hold Bitcoin if you want institutional custody, trading tax and those sorts of things. I don't think even the largest institution could set up an arrangement that's a better deal than these ETFs at 20 basis points unless they wanted to just, you know, self custody, which many of them can't do. Once the ETH ETFs have staking, I think they'll be the most efficient way for the majority of investors to gain exposure to ETH. And, and so that will lead to, you know, another uptick, and it's coming right it is coming i think almost regardless

of what happens in november you know we're going to be looking forward to all of these little unlocks at the sec like staking it's not that big a leap to go from where we are to uh to allowing staking and etfs love that it's all amazing and now, since we have James on stage, and we just talked, and I know exactly what we can talk about, there's quite a bit of sort of regulatory and legal news, sort of a nice segue how it's a secret if everybody knows about it and it was reported. A meeting between the SEC and Ripple today that has caused a lot of people to say that this case could be resolved behind closed doors. We'll speak to that in a minute. And the other one, James, which we haven't unpacked yet on Spaces, is the news that the SEC was effectively backing off on the unregistered security narrative with 10 tokens in the Binance case. And that caused a lot of people to say, hey, Solana, Matic, ADA, whatever they are, are not securities anymore, according to the SEC. And since you're a lawyer,

we've talked about this. Let's talk about how bad these takes are. Well, you know, there's a lot of amateur practicing of law on Twitter, and I think people should have at it. You're entitled to your opinion. With respect to the secret meeting, it's not secret. It's disclosed by the SEC that they have these meetings and what the agenda is. And the agenda is generic and doesn't mention Ripple. And people need to understand that there's a lot more than Ripple or crypto on the plate of the SEC. They have a lot of enforcement actions that have absolutely nothing to do with crypto, and they regularly consider the status of litigation, possibly settling litigation, filing new litigation.

This happens all the time every month. And so while it is theoretically possible that they're going to talk about settling Ripple, I am doubtful that that's really going to even be discussed because I think all parties are waiting for Judge Torres to rule. I believe, could be wrong, I believe she will rule this month, the month of August, for kind of technical reasons about the way the courts work. And then we will have a final decision, including the remedies phase. And at that point, both sides can appeal. And my guess, and it's just a guess, is they will both appeal. Ripple will appeal the part that they lost. And SEC will appeal the part finding that

XRP trading on the secondary market is not an investment contract and they may, if they're unhappy with the remedy, appeal that as well. So that is my expectation. I could be wrong about all of that. With respect to Binance, the decision to amend the complaint to remove the third-party issued tokens trading on Binance is a smart tactical move by the SEC because the judge there in the Binance case has been a little bit hostile to the idea that she's going to conduct 10 mini trials over whether these 10 tokens are investment contracts when traded on Binance when you don't have the issuer of the tokens present. That is a logical problem that the judge has with that case. The SEC sees the writing on the wall in that case and does a tactical withdrawal there of those allegations, but continues with the allegation that the Binance token issued by Binance, which is a defendant in the case, they're going to continue with that.

Makes perfect sense. Whereas the Coinbase case, they've got a judge who's pretty receptive to the things they've been saying. And honestly, in reading the decision denying Coinbase's motion to dismiss in that case, it's a little alarming how much the judge is buying into the SEC's theory. And remember, in that case, you got exactly the same allegation that tokens issued by third parties that trade on Coinbase are unregistered securities illegally trading on Coinbase. So it's the same argument. They're just going to focus their attention on a different venue, the Southern District of New York, before a judge that they like. And so this makes a lot of sense in terms of lawyer tactics. This is all that means. It does not mean that the SEC has had a change of heart about whether tokens trading on secondary

markets are securities. Just to be clear, everyone, if you're wondering on this show we really try instead of just kicking through headlines and giving our own bad takes uh based on what we read in articles we when we want to talk about etfs we bring on someone who works at bitwise and understands etfs and we want to talk about legal cases we bring on lawyers to talk about the legal cases. And that's why you should be listening to this show every day, as opposed to 90% of the other ones out there where it's just bad takes and clickbait headlines. Dave, go ahead. Yeah, I just want to expand on what James was saying, because he's 100% right, of course. You know, when you look at this, quote, you know, supposed reset, which I will continue to laugh at until proven otherwise,

one of the obvious acid tests is the Coinbase and Kraken cases or are the Coinbase and Kraken cases. And the reason is exactly as James said. The fact that they are still strategizing to try to call Solana, Matic, et cetera, securities is obvious and incredibly disruptive, considering there's no rules, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that nobody who's looking at this space should be fooled by what's going on. Those cases are literal lines in the sand. And, you know, whether or not, you know, it look, Trump's already said he would get rid of it. Done. Kamala has said nothing. It would be rather interesting, because if you think about it, the current VP, who arguably, well, a lot of people would say is the only composmentist leader, you know, sitting in the White House right now, saying these cases should be thrown out would

probably kind of force the SEC's hand. But even beyond that, if she doesn't say it, she doesn't mean it, and people should understand that war against the industry is right there. So to me, I find, you know, I like what Ro Khanna is doing. I like what Wiley is doing. I like what Richie Torres has said. There are Democrats who agree. But until that is the majority voice, don't listen to them. Understand all-out war against the industry, both from Operation Chokepoint and from the prospect of forcing all of the crypto exchanges out of business in the United States is still on the table until set. And, you know, there's been so many bad takes about politics that drives me crazy. I mean, you may decide that economic freedom is not an important issue to you,

in which case, by all means, vote for whoever you want to vote for. But if you are deciding your ballot based upon the ability for a more inclusive financial system, then until there is a statement and it's in their platform, understand that. And I just want that to be clear, because this is not partisan. I mean, I still haven't made up my mind who I'm going to vote for. The information isn't there. The ballots haven't been mailed yet. We don't know who the candidates are. We don't even know who the VPs are, right? But the absolute reality is there's so many bad takes of people who just, you know, are smoking the same drug that Mike McClone, he's not up here,

as he always talks about, which is hopium. You know, you could hopium about some token that you bought that's down 95% will come back to the next bull run. Cool, probably not a great strategy. But don't have the same hopium in terms of voting or in terms of who you support. That's all I would say. I've been very unpopular for even mentioning the prospect that Kamala Harris could win. I'm sorry, guys. I'm not saying that I hope that Kamala Harris would win. But knowing that we actually have multiple candidates and parties running for office and the possibility that the guy that seemingly the industry wants the most to win the possibility they could lose is still worth discussing because it means that whether we get behind harris which i'm absolutely not saying we do need to try to get a seat at the table on both sides correct dave i

mean it's well yeah if she wins we need it to make it we need to make it extremely unpalatable for the anti crypto army to continue to exist. Well, that is true. It'll be a much bigger fight. The reason Bitcoin is at 64000 instead of breaking through 74000 is because poly market now is effectively a coin flip. I mean, 55 to 43, which is what it is at right now, as I stare at it, is essentially shoving all in with a pair against Ace King. And, you know, and honestly, you know, that is not the same thing. Now, a 50 percent chance of somebody who is going to enact policies that will probably quadruple Bitcoin's price over his, you know, is definitely underpriced in the market. But the fact is, people don't like to bet that way. People don't invest that way. Certainly not in the summer when they're really thinking about being at the beach this month.

But the simple fact is, that's why we are where we are. And that is without her saying boo about any of this. Now, we haven't seen. Keep in mind, the Democratic platform is not done. Her stance on all of these things is not there. We just have a lot of arm waving from people who are saying, oh, well, she's going to pivot to the middle. It's like, okay, cool. Great. Let's see it. Because if it's not in the platform, then it means that the hostility of the anti-crypto army is going to continue. I'm going to repeat that for the people who don't want to believe it. But if the Democrats don't put clauses in their platform like the Republicans did, it is exceedingly clear that everything else is just arm-waving.

Because it means there's a line. And it means that Elizabeth Warren, unless John Deaton beats her, which I still think is the most important election, or maybe one of the most important elections, will be controlling. Although, if John Deaton does beat her, how are people going to feel if Elizabeth Warren is the next Treasury Secretary? And that is a serious issue, a serious possibility. That is not pie in the sky. So, you know, everyone needs to understand what it is until they say it. Now, if they do put it in the platform and she does publicly, Kamala, the Madam Vice President, does break with the Warren anti-crypto army, that's a totally different story. But that has not happened. And that's what has to be looked for. That is literally the only major news story in August as far as I'm concerned.

Who knows? There could be something crazy happen. But to me, that's a very big story, and it's not at all clear. I expect a lot of crazy to happen between now and the election. I don't think anything would surprise any of us with what's likely coming. Go ahead, Andrew. Something that, you know, we're all fairly, we think it's a great thing that in one of the latest filings that the SEC has kind of removed some of the tokens as it relates to, you know, is it a security or not? You know, and crypto Twitter was all abuzz about that action. Just a reminder that the SEC as a regulatory agency can change their mind 15 times in one day, and they can do that however they please and whenever they please.

It's not a binding decision or an ongoing now settled law that they've adjusted some language in a lawsuit. As a reminder, they settled with Kraken on a particular portion of law and like a couple months later, they re-sued them for a whole new slew of issues. So when it comes to what Matt had to say that it would be great if we got a regulatory environment that was neutral as opposed to loudly antagonistic. I think that's a very, very reasonable take. And we may find ourselves in neutral area, you know, despite all the rhetoric at the Bitcoin conference last week. Even with the Trump administration, we would probably significantly move to neutral, you know, over the course through a legal fight, potentially lose that legal fight, then take that legal fight to an appellate court and potentially lose that fight and then take it to the Supreme Court. That's the lengths that the crypto industry had to go just to get a three to two decision on Bitcoin ETFs.

They had to go all the way to the appellate level to get a decision that forced the SEC's hand. And then the vote was three to two. It wasn't five to zero, right? So let's just remember that there is not, you know, actual meaningful, what's the word I'm looking for here? It's, they don't have anybody that they really answer to other than high, high, high chords, which basically embarrass them into taking some level of action as we stand right now. So there's a reality and then there's this hopeful future that we're looking at. So the adjustment of how tokens are being talked about inside of papers being moved back and forth in a lawsuit that the SEC has been involved in is not all that meaningful, to be honest,

because they can change their mind tomorrow. And in the next case that they bring, name all of those and go after all of them. Thised, sued, wells noticed, and put companies, frankly, out of business for all intents and services, lawfare. So being excited about an adjustment in language inside of a lawsuit, I think, is you just got to be careful about it. You have to understand what you're dealing with. The Coinbase suit is very, very important. And as it was said, the judge there is not, at this point, with the return dialogue, has not been pro-crypto and pro-coinbase, there's a big hill to climb there. So let's be aware that there is, we're still in a certain environment that could potentially find us another four years of it. Right. Yeah. It's also worth pointing out, because that's a great point, Andrew,

is if Harris convinced Biden to put Gensler to walk the plank and Gary resigns, and they put Carolyn Crenshaw as interim head of the SEC and put another Democrat in there, it's arguably worse. And honestly, for anyone who doesn't know why I say that, I put it in writing in January. Blog.cornerroutes.com, you can find it. I wrote a fairly lengthy takedown of her dissent letter against the Bitcoin ETF when she dissented and essentially was the part of the two that voted against. And the TLDR on this is it's the single worst letter or opinion written by a government official that I have ever seen. It was so wrong

on so many levels. But I went through, I took the time to go point by point and just rip it to shreds. Her opinions are completely indefensible. And to give Gary credit, Gary is smart enough, he would never put his name to something like that ever. You may not like the man, but he's not willing to say things that are that stupid in public. So I think that a real possibility is they force him out and claim political victory. And that softens the stance of the industry right at the time when they want to, but it doesn't mean anything. I mean, it's a classic maneuver. And that's why I, with all due respect, Scott, I know you, you started the hashtag fire Gary Gensler. This isn't about Gary.

This is about policy. I would be, I would be shocked if, if they quote unquote fired Gary Gensler before the election. I don't, I don't think they, they believe they need to go that far. And I don't think they've, they've given it much meaningful thought, to be honest. You know, there's a there's a huge, huge, huge section of the Democratic Party. It's frankly, it's the it's the the largest section of the Democratic Party that that believes in what they're doing believes in the fact that you know crypto is is uh not only a less good uh but a borderline evil associated with things like you know terrorist fine financing and the like um and you know gary gensler in his last couple of of appearances in front of congress um it's not as if his body language or attitude has changed.

You know, he thinks he's doing a great job. He's a cop on the beat. And, you know, I just don't see a world where unless I just don't see a world where they replace Gensler as some way to move a couple of percentage points inside of a of an industry that thinks that he should have been fired a long time ago. It's just it's such a down ticket type of move that in the grand scheme of, you know, electoral theories. I just I just don't see it. It wouldn't make a meaningful impact, you know, on the quote unquote 6 p.m. news for your typical voter. It just wouldn't. And Gensler is embedded in. Remember, you know, Gensler was the CFO of the Clinton campaign. I mean, that guy is wired in, man. That guy is wired in in the Democratic Party.

So the idea that somehow he'd be an artificial, not artificial, but sacrificial. Sacrificial. Yeah, sacrificial lamb and just be cool with it. I don't know that we'd like it to happen. It would make sense to happen. But when was the last time, you know, politics made a ton of sense? Yeah. I may be the only one on this panel to say this. I wouldn't like it to happen, you know, you know, at this point. I don't because I think it would be a token move that would actually be bad from an electoral perspective because it would work

with a lot of people and it would actually achieve nothing if they replaced it with somebody who is equally bad. That's my thought. Yeah, to that point, there's actually been a lot of kind of debate in the industry. Was it FIT21. Some of the legislation, I believe it's called the 21. Some of the legislation that we've seen proposed, a lot of people were excited to see some potentially pro crypto legislation get pushed through during this administration. But those who have read deeply into it, kind of to the same end, push back and say, man, this does not go far enough. Shouldn't we just wait and see if we get a better legislative and regulatory environment to actually get what we want instead of just taking the scraps of what's given, right? Yeah, I mean, look, you and I both think that

arguably the most important and actually virtually 100% certain to be done part of Trump's speech at Bitcoin 2024, which was not the thing Bitcoiners want to hear because they don't give a crap about crypto writ large or a lot of people, a lot of them don't. The maxis certainly don't. But his 100 day, let's get the industry working together to draft rules with the administration that can be done. And people do not understand how actually important this could be. If you have the CFTC and SEC in a room ready to draft no action relief and do carve-outs, you don't need a whole lot of legislation to make enormous progress. Now, obviously, out of that will be legislation proposed, but you can do an awful lot with the two agencies if they're working

together with an administration. And to me, that was the most important thing he proposed. And that is something more or less it boils down to what Hester proposed five and a half years ago or whenever it was about creating a safe harbor. Because what people don't get, and this is important, is that the only reason we care, and all these court cases are about, whether a crypto asset is a security or not, is because the securities laws, as written and interpreted by this SEC, are impossible to navigate. Therefore, when something is a security, it's effectively a death sentence. If those rules were given no action relief, it was not impossible to navigate. And good faith efforts were built to make disclosures work for crypto issuers, allow for crypto exchanges to become alternative trading systems with carve outs against all the things that block it in the current securities rules. We wouldn't care whether it was called a security or not. It wouldn't matter. Nobody would,

nor should we really care. That's the point. And that's a point that doesn't get made a lot i'm not really sure why because it's pretty obvious anyone else have thoughts specifically on this the last point here i i was on a i was on a call with caitlin long yesterday or the day before. And, you know, the point that she made, and this goes to Matt's point about, you know, crypto neutral on a go forward basis, even in a Trump administration. You know, there's more than just like six people that work at the SEC or the DOJ, right? There's an entire army of regulatory administrative staff that also think and feel a certain way. And that staff, you know, oftentimes are the folks that are drafting the comments, drafting the actual legal thoughts, drafting the actions that are getting taken, then then just get a signature from folks at the top. So, you know, there's a large swath of folks that, again, whatever the turnover is inside of those regulatory bodies, there's an anti-crypto bent to those organizations writ large.

It's not just because of Gary. It's not just because of, you know, other other folks at the top of those. You know, look at the Fed. Right. So the Fed has been very, very even still anti Bitcoin. You know, their ability to to to manage their relationships with banks associated with wanting to, quote unquote, you know, custody Bitcoin and be involved on to that end has been very, very anti Bitcoin, anti crypto. So how do you how do you deal with that? Those regulatory bodies are filled with a specific kind of way of thinking and a stance. And so even though we may get a shift in at the top of the the quote quote unquote, um, you know, body politic, uh, there's a, there's a, you know, there's a lot of folks that live in Washington, DC that have

jobs that have, that, that we'll never know. And we'll never see. Um, but their opinions really, really matter the way that they think about this stuff really, really matters as it relates to, uh, the ability for the industry to grow and thrive here in the united states so it's not just is there an adjustment in leadership so again to matt's point net neutral would be a net win for the industry jonathan any thoughts? Brian, you're here. What's up?

Sorry, no, I'm here. Go ahead, Jonathan. It's the devil you know. It's the devil you know. Like Dave was saying, there's some people who could easily take Gary's spot who are worse. Yeah, and exactly her dissent, not dissent, but the comments were just, it's like she didn't care about law or precedent. It was just, it just weird and bad. Sorry, who are we talking about? I missed the first part.

It doesn't matter. We're moving on. We're doing all the politics and stuff. We can move on because I want to actually ask you about the market, if that's okay, before we go on to the next one. The market is moving because of politics. I was watching the charts yesterday. The FOMC, Bitcoin kind of held up pretty well, went into the FOMC and came out of the FOMC at exactly the same price.

And then Trump had that botched interview. I don't know what that was. Botched interview. And then the Kamala Harris polls started to show Kamala gaining speed, gaining ground on Trump. And then the Bitcoin price took a dump while the stock market carried on firing away. And now Bitcoin is correlated to the expectation of presidential results rather than the market. Yeah, well, that's what I actually said on my show today. I said right now there's only one chart that matters,

and that is the chart of the Democrats winning again. If the Democrats win again, we're getting four to even eight more years of Gensler and Elizabeth Warren. And if we don't, we're going to get Trump. And to be honest, that's really the only chart that matters at the moment. I don't believe, despite what Mike Novogratz says, I don't believe that all of a sudden the Democrats have done this amazing about turn and they're going to be pro-crypto. I think it's impossible. I think that even if they try to convince us before the election that it's going to happen, Elizabeth Warren, if the Democrats win, Elizabeth Warren's going nowhere,

and Gary Gensler's going nowhere, except to maybe be more destructive. And we just have to face the facts that that's what the market's responding to. And between now and November, I think that that's probably the most important chart worse than that is that i said it before i mean i don't like carmel harris one bit and i really hope to god she doesn't get elected but she's she speaks very well she's well i don't know it depends who you believe but she's either indian or black or both apparently she's both she's's Indian and black. And she speaks very well. She appeals to a very diverse base. She's a Democrat. And she is gaining momentum. Now, I was interviewed on Kitco News a while back. In fact, just after the Trump assassination attempt when Biden was still in

power. And I said, look, the biggest problem that we're going to have now is that the market's factored in a Trump win. And anything less than 100% chance of a Trump win is bad for crypto now. And right now, that's what's happening. You literally just have to look at the Elizabeth Warren chart on polymarkets relative to the Bitcoin chart. And minute by minute, you can see that the two charts are inversely correlated. Wild. Jonathan? You there, Jonathan? Okay. Yeah, he's got his hand up, but Mike not on. So what do you think that means then for the cycle and altcoins and all this? I mean, we've sort of had this summer doldrums, obviously, with the expectation that things are going to skyrocket in the fall. But could that be the spoiler to that?

I think we just have to wait and see how the election cycle plays out, to be honest. And I think, you know, let's see how well Trump does. Also, you can't believe what you read in the press because the press is so biased toward the left wing that, you know, you can't really believe what you're reading in the press. You don't actually know who's ahead in the polls. I mean, to me, that's why I say that. Yeah, I don't believe polls. I've told Mario.

I don't believe polls. I believe polymarket, but I also don't believe polymarket. I believe polymarket because you actually have to put your money where your mouth is to be part of the poll. But it's not Americans and it's a bunch of right-leaning people making their bets.

Correct. And so that's the problem. We don't know what the polls are, which means that it all comes down to where is the media positioned? And I think right now, you have to say that the media is positioned on Kamala Harris.

The majority of the mainstream media prefer the left to the right at the moment. Biden was dead to rights against Trump and literally any living, breathing human

apparently could catch up in the pulse. I'll play you a clip now. Let me just see if I can just get my sound to come into any kind of... Yeah, let me see. I don't know if this will work, but let's try. I'll play you a clip now

and you'll see exactly what I mean. Let me try and get it for you. President, yeah. She's going to win. No, she's not. She can win. She absolutely can win. That's joe rogan i mean like now joe you know joe rogan's extreme other side he's like look carmel is going to win

this thing um uh if you look at the sentiment the sentiment swung a lot uh trump had a very bad uh appearance last night and the sentiment seems to have swung a lot and the media is exhausted and the media is exacerbating the problem. And yeah, as I said, as long as the market thinks that Kamala is going to win, all we're seeing is another eight years of Elizabeth Warren and maybe even giving her more power. Matt, do you have your hand up? Yeah, I just wanted to add a few points on the market. You know, someone said something earlier, which I strongly agree with, which, you know, even more than figuring out who's going to win, because right now I think it's probably a toss up depending on where you look.

The market just hates uncertainty. I don't think the market is priced in what would happen under a pro crypto environment under, you know, the most extreme version of the Donald Trump has to purse environment because there is so much uncertainty. Investors just don't want to make that bet. So, yeah, I really think until the uncertainty resolves, it's probably chopping sideways. The other point I would make, just to get a little more nuanced, Scott, you raised the question of altcoins.

I do think under the moderate sort of Harris winning scenario, you would see Bitcoin and ETH benefit from a degree of regulatory capture because they've already made it sort of through the system. They're already ETFs. BlackRock is already building on Ethereum and talking about Bitcoin, I really think it's the altcoins that would suffer under that environment because it's just like any sort of element of regulatory capture that the giants would have a degree of protection that they wouldn't have had before. So I think those are probably important to keep in mind as we go into November. Yeah, I mean, you could say that Bitcoin, so I think maybe Bitcoin would benefit i agree but i don't think it's bitcoin and eth and i'll explain to you why i don't think it's bitcoin and if i agree with you 100 that bitcoin's already made it but remember for eth to be functional you need a you need

a bunch of projects built on eth also to be functional and if the us is going to be you know for bitcoin to be for bitcoin to to to be, you know, for Bitcoin to be functional, you just need Bitcoin because Bitcoin is not about the ecosystem. It's just about an alternative store of value. ETH is not. ETH is about the development of a new kind of internet.

And if we get another eight years of Elizabeth Warren, then, you know, the prospects for more applications being built on ETH, which use up more gas and make the token more scarce and aren't good. Let's face it. And so maybe Bitcoin's made it. applications being built on eth which use up more gas and make the token more scarce and and then i'm good let's face it and so maybe bitcoin's made it i'm not sure if it's that bullish for you

yeah i think i agree with that i i'm in a more moderate version of parents which which you know we're all skeptical of but we we don't know for sure um but i agree with what you said yes i guess we just have to watch one chart now and that chart is like how's Kamala doing when is the official when do they make Kamala officially the democrat

nominee is it the 4th of August or something I actually don't know when the DNC is but it would be at the democratic national convention I don't know the dates DNC is, but it would be at the Democratic National Convention. Does anybody know the dates? I haven't bothered to look. Yeah. Okay.

So I think that... Yeah, sometime in the coming weeks for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the Winklevoss brothers kind of said it. There is the one scenario that plays out that, you know, she does towards the end realize that she's not as far ahead as she needs to be and she has to do something kind of desperate to show and to win votes. Crypto becomes a good vote.

And what she does is she does something extreme, like maybe fire Gary Gensler just before the election. Like, you know, to show that she's serious about really changing her stance on crypto. She does something along those lines. But, you know, I don't believe anything that she does right now would convince me that the Democrats are all of a sudden pro-crypto. Like, there's nothing that they could do that would say to me, wow, these guys have really changed their tune up.

What if they added protection of crypto to the Democratic platform like the Republicans did? I don't think they will, by the way. Just saying. Yeah, okay. I mean, what if they just don't vote Kamala Harris and they take RFK back? Let's put things on the spectrum, you know, things that are actually reasonable.

Well, Rand, that's not fair. I mean, we don't know. The platform is getting negotiated right now behind closed doors, just like, quite frankly, the nominee was done behind closed doors. You know, rather amusing. You know, we haven't heard a lot of ending democracy talk out of the Democrats recently. I'm sure we'll hear it again in a month or two when they figure they can memory hole this whole process. But the truth is that they could. There are enough Democrats who could scream for it. And it really is a question of, which we don't know the answer to. I've asked a million people about, well, not a million,

but I've asked a lot of people who are Washington insiders, what's Kamala's relationship with Elizabeth Warren? We don't know. We literally don't. Because, you know, it's very interesting. Although I tend to agree with you that you're probably right, but it's not clear. And there are a lot of people in the industry who think there's a chance that it could go that way. I think those people are, I mean, Mike Novogratz was one of them. He was on the Bankless podcast the other day. And, you know, he actually thought that the Democrats were doing a bad turn. And he actually, you know, he thinks that, you know, it could be a good thing. Look, maybe I've just had four very bad years with him and maybe that's why i'm like you know quite narrow-minded about their ability to change as a party but can't see it happening what what what incentive would the democratic party have to adjust or change if they win the

election there's no there's zero incentive to change. Yeah, their change has to be upfront. I mean, look, the two issues that matter to young people are the accredited, and it's, they don't know about it as specific, but what they know is that they can invest in stuff, and the reason is that the accredited investor rule, and they know that crypto has been pushed and kicked aside, and that kicks them out. That's what they know that crypto has been pushed and kicked aside and that that kicks that

kicks them out that's what they know and so unless you have the ability unless it's in the platform in some way then i agree there's no chance that they change after the election just kind of vague promises is nowhere near enough but that is a needle moving issue so you should read a post i'm trying to find it. It's just by David Marcus. It's a very long tweet. I don't know. David Marcus is the ex-president of PayPal.

And then he went to work for- I read it. It's where he declared for Trump. He declared for Trump. And he said something along the lines. I'm trying to find the quote. He said, I'm trying to find the quote. He kind of says, look, you know, the Democrats are more about clinging to power whilst the Republicans are more about the democratic process or something like that. I don't remember exactly how he said it.

He said, I can't find it. I mean, his tweets are very, very long. Republicans cared more deeply about their constituents, while Democrats, in my experience, cared more about government power and control. This is my observation on balance, with many stories to back it up. So I'll read this paragraph.

I think it's quite a good paragraph. It says, the next series of realizations for me began in 2019 when I was at Meta. Right after we announced the Libra white paper, I testified before Senate. I think we all remember that when he testified. And the House and subsequently spent significant time in D.C. engaging with lawmakers, cabinet members, and regulators. And two White House administrations. At the time, I still believed the mainstream idea

that Democrats were all about serving the people. However, I was shocked to learn that, for the most part, Republicans cared more deeply about their constituents while Democrats, in my experience, cared more about government control and power. This is my observation on balance with many stories to back it up. I also found that more Republicans wanted to understand our project's goals and took the time to learn about the risks of censoring payments and controlling networks.

I found myself remarkably aligned with them. So, yeah, that's the – I think that that's kind of like – I kind of agree. When I read that, I was like, you know, you actually nailed it. Nail on the head. The Democrats care about power. You saw it. He carries on in the next paragraph when he says,

then COVID came revealing more. While I don't subscribe to most malicious vaccine conspiracies, I do take offense at censorship machine put into place to hide the origin of the virus from the NIH. One lab says at the time, I fully appreciated why Republicans valued freedom of speech and preventing censorship. So, I mean, I think that for me nailed it on the head.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting few months. And I think there's going to be a lot of unexpected twists and turns. It's going to be really interesting to see how it play out. I know, David, Kyle, you guys are here. I know that you wanted to have a conversation today with a special guest. Absolutely. Talking to the guys from BNV.me today.

They've got some cool stuff going on in the fashion industry. Why don't you, you know, we'll kick things off, you know, for the people who aren't familiar with your project, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you guys are working and how you're kind of bridging, you know, fashion with blockchain? Okay, my name is Richard. I'm the founder of B&B and I have many decades of experience in the fashion industry. And I originally started the company back in 2016 as a means of trying to apply technology into the traditional fashion industry chains of supply and design, development, distribution, retail, etc. And in the process of doing that, I really got hooked on two things. One was 3D products, which was actually a lot of input coming out of the gaming industry.

And the other thing was distributed ledger technology, blockchain, smart contracts. And I ended up spending a bit of time in LA in 2000 or California in 2017, trying to understand what was going on around that time around the whole ICO thing. Came back very confused, but did see that there would be the potential for this long-term way to disrupt or change the way that fashion could be consumed and worn and valued and traded using blockchain technology and the 3D tools that now existed that could actually take it into new spaces, which obviously now is where people talk about gaming and the like. And that's what we've been doing since 2019.

I stopped worrying about making physical fashion and concentrated on keeping it purely virtual. In the process of doing that and building out our first version of our marketplace for actually the trading and selling of NFTs as digital fashion, came into contact and managed to get some investment from some interesting people, including from Animoca Brands. And we've been building since then. And it's about building an ecosystem which is engaging both users and brands and individual designers and creators and enabling them to be extremely creative with a bunch of tools that we provide to them. And then to be able to monetize that creativity through various channels, including the gamification of fashion or the gamification of style,

as we like to call it, and a whole bunch of other things which goes into products that we have coming down the pipeline, including AI personas, which sit on top of our avatar and our wearable system. So in a nutshell, that's sort of where we've been over the last six or seven years. And we're coming up to our TGE for our Fashcoin later this month, if everything goes smoothly. So you guys, so you started this in 2019? This is when the project started? 2016, the business started. And then 2019 is when we really focused on virtual fashion and applying blockchain. And we launched our first product in 2021.

So in the boom years of NFT and and digital fashion that was crazy time and you know i'm just kind of going through all of your information on here so you guys have actually partnered with several of the larger fashion brands how did that materialize like what what you know what value do they see and what you're working on how did that you know give us some more detail on that partnership to to be brutally open um a lot of those projects that we've done were well over a year ago um in that boom period of 21 late 21 early 22 when um digital fashion was very much a hot topic a lot lot of them were actually friends, you know, people that I know from the industry that were willing to sort of have a go

at what we were doing, which, you know, pitching the concept of what you could do with digital fashion as a new revenue stream, as a new way of engagement, as a new way to market and promote to the next generation. Because a lot of the brands need to connect to the younger audiences, the Gen Zs and the Jet Alphas, who are obviously living their life extremely digitally. But we also, through networks and historic relationships, we did a project with the CFDA,

the Council of Fashion Designers of America, where we worked with them and a few other parties to create some exclusive NFTs, digital wearables, which were auctioned and went for between 15 and 25,000 US dollars equivalent at that time, with the outcome of that going to charity. And I would say some of those bigger brands were very easy to deal with. Some of them are not so easy to deal with because you're crossing a lot of barriers into brand ownership and aesthetics, as well as compliance and legal. And the ones that we can work really well with, let's say the younger, the smaller, the more flexible brands. So we've done a whole bunch of things around different fashion weeks in London, and New York, in Copenhagen over the last few years

with young and up-and-coming brands. You can find a lot of stuff on our website referencing back to a lot of those projects that we've done. But what we have got is a really good track record with those brands. We've got a really good pipeline of others that we've engaged with and that we'll be bringing onto the platform after our TGE. What we needed to do was build something that functioned, build a functional ecosystem for digital fashion rather than just say, hey, let's make some more NFTs of wearables that maybe people will collect. Now we've got

something that people can actually wear, they can customize, they can sell, they can trade, all of the elements and more that we've built into our smart contract structure. How have you seen it? So you guys have been doing this for a while. How have you seen the industry evolve? You know, with obviously, you know, between 2019 and now the technology is incredibly different you mentioned you know you guys did really well with nfts you know and fashion in in 2021 obviously that's cooled a little bit you know but at the same time as you know you know founders you guys have been able to kind of gather you know market data so to speak even though it might be more more fluid and just through the lessons that you've learned what how do you guys view the stance now obviously you feel good about good enough about it to be launching your token but like what's the current you know relationship now between fashion web3

crypto you know as you guys see it um if you go back a few years there's there's quite a few companies that started off around a similar time to to where we were we were um some of them are still there some of them are gone um i think we stand apart because i think we're the only one that's actually been focused on building an ecosystem rather than just sort of activations and experiences and mini metaverses and small game things, actually thinking about the fashion industry as a whole and how you could bring that into Web3 and make it relatable. Because the crux of it is we need millions of people coming into Web3. And if you want to get them into that space,

you're not going to do it through getting them to get a MetaMask wallet, buy some ETH, wrap it, write down a seed phrase, and go through all those painful points that we've all been through over the last years. You've got to do it through smart wallets. You've got to do it through simple onboarding. You've got to do it through mobile. It has to be engaging. It has to be creative." Then they'll realize that they're in Web3 when they realize, I've earned something by doing this, or I've got something of value which I can now do other things with. I think that's the difference where we've been, perhaps, from where others

who have just been, let's say, primarily focused on sort of single silo activations, where we've been saying, no, we need to build a whole ecosystem, which applies to brands, to individual users, to designers, to creators, and bring them all together in the true spirit of Web3, which is, you know, that you can use a currency, you can use the likes of smart contracts and other crypto benefits to reward, incentivize, and engage people in ways that are transformational when it comes to an industry, which in many cases, the fashion industry, which is huge, is inherently quite slow. It's wasteful. It's damaging. It's not necessarily the best thing for the planet.

So we can change some of those things by using digital tools and digital services and embedding it with Web3 technology and cryptocurrency. We think we can also make a big difference. We can actually make an impact. That's awesome. You know, and before we kind of get into your token that you've got coming up, I know one of the things that Mario likes to talk about is your cap table. So, you know, I saw, you know, the tweet that we put out. You've got Brevin Howard, Animoca Brands.

Who else is involved with the project? Well, that was around our Series A round. So at that time, it was a very interesting time for raising money and but we have a bunch of other vcs um including archery and capital sparkle ventures quite a few individuals and smaller funds which were animoka related let's say you know friends of which came in at that time but also individuals in the entertainment, in the communications industry, in the fashion industry as well. So it's quite a wide and diverse cap table. And we're based out of Hong Kong.

I'm actually in Singapore, but the main office is in Hong Kong. So we've got quite a nice network of people in Korea, in Japan, and in this part of the world. So you haven't done any recent raises? Or you said you were series A round? Series A round was in early 2022. What was the valuation on that? The valuation then was just over 20 million.

Okay, awesome. And then have you guys raised funds recently at all? We've done a few private sales of our token through SAFs, and we are now in the process of doing launch pads in the preparation for the listing at the end of this month okay which launch pads are you guys working with we are live at the moment on Magic Square we're working with NeoLaunch Engine Starter and and Sports Network. And there's a couple of others that have come out of the woodwork in the last week or so, which we're in discussions with. Okay.

And then as far as the token launch, which exchanges, are you guys signed with any exchanges? Are you in discussions with them? We've had offers from six different exchanges, sort of tier one and a half and twos. We've pretty much finalized who we're going to go with. I won't say it definitely today, but we'll be making an announcement probably in the next seven to 10 days of which exchanges we'll be launching on. It's all linked into the timing and the launch pads, etc. And we might be

even doing an IEO as one of the exchanges. Okay one of the exchanges. Okay. Um, and so I guess like, let's dive into a little bit about the FASH token. Um, you know, so you, you mentioned, so when are you guys planning on TGE? By the end of August. Okay. Oh, wow. So, so coming up. So, I mean, obviously you, you know, listening into hearing these guys talk about it, are guys is that has that always been in the the roadmap for you guys is the launch at the end of august or no well actually we've had we've had we've been working on the we had the main tokenomics model developed back in well over two years ago um and um luckily because we are part of the Animoca family, we've been able to work with their tokenomics team and gradually evolve and tweak.

And we felt sort of around February, March time that now was a good time to actually bring the coin to market. So we had everything in place. The structure is there, the tokenomics, the pools, it's all properly lined up, all the sinks, faucets, and however you want to describe it. So we're just picking the optimum time for the market. And there never is an optimum time. So at some point, you've got to make a call. And we've made the call for August. Absolutely. So tell us a little bit more about the token itself. How does it work within the ecosystem, the different mechanics of it, how it functions

within your within your ecosystem so we have wanted to be really conscious that we were creating something that was far more than just an in-game or in-app utility token so yes it has those benefits if you're in our platform which is me id anyone can go there id.bnb.me you don't need a wallet to access it if you do better there's more things that you can access because we've got full wallet integration with pfps and art and music all plugged into the avatar system um so within with the uh with the flash coin you we've been distributing it already for just over a year through our Discord and within the app. You're running contests.

So we run styling contests and people enter those based on certain themes or different collaborations with brands. And then we will incentivize them to take part and reward the winners with prizes. And that's one way. And then there's a whole question of leveling up within the platform itself so buying digital wearables um leveling up your ai persona through voice synthesization or text to um text to voice applications um we're building again this comes back to making things relatable to the fashion industry. So we built a virtual vending machine, which does exist.

There's one in the office on a 55-inch touchscreen TV with a big chunky GPU behind it. And the idea is to actually make the process of buying digital assets more relatable to people that are not necessarily used to an NFT gas war or a premium process. And so by building this virtual vending machine, which we've been dropping to other places, people can earn Fash through different methods and then use that to buy or upgrade other assets within. But the bigger picture is we want the Fash coin to be something that the whole of both the digital and physical fashion industry can utilize. So you could earn virtually and spend physically and vice versa. So if you were purchasing a product from a brand partner at retail,

you could tap an NFC chip, which we've developed, or just simple scan a barcode, plug it in, and you've got Fash. And therefore, you're back into the digital ecosystem as well as the physical ecosystem. And a big part of what we're trying to do with the foundation, so we obviously have to set up a foundation for the distribution of a coin, which is in place. And the part of that foundation would be that it would,

well, the concept of the foundation would be run eventually by a DAO, and it would also provide funding and support to other projects that wanted to use the flash coin in their businesses, projects, whatever you want to call it. Not necessarily exclusively fashion-related, but anywhere at that intersection of fashion and culture and style. And then that goes into identity and sports and music and fashion. So we want to do that. But also to actually, we've allocated 10% of the ecosystem reward pool for what we're calling a green lane.

And the idea with a green lane is that it should be giving back to um businesses or charities or individuals that are actually doing something to improve the processes or the systems or the materials even that the traditional founded fashion industry uses or repairs the damage that you know fast fashion which is obviously a big issue um at the moment and has been for a couple of decades now, that it causes. So we can hope that by using crypto for good, which is what I like to admit, we can actually have an impact into the real fashion world and make a difference there as well.

That's outstanding. So you guys will set to launch the end of august um exchanging pbd you want you can't can't tease them you're just like tier two one and a half but two one and a half that's fair you're working with some really some really great launch pads i'm familiar with a few of the ones that you would list it off great representations of it um you know so you guys launched the token the end of august you kind of off, great representations of it. So you guys launched the token at the end of August. You kind of hinted at some of the technology that you're going to be creating. Let's just walk us through what the rest of the year looks like in regards to the...

So the next, the vending machine I've mentioned is going to be coming up soon after TGE. Plus, we're beta testing now. There's a few people, influencers with our AI persona. So you can basically come in, customize an avatar, co-create with brands an outfit, which is constantly changing. You can plug in music. You can wear your PFPs. And you can layer your own knowledge base on top of that. So you could have your own persona with voice-to-voice, multilingual, synthesized voice representative of yourself or your brand or as a KOL engaging with your audience, your community, however you want to describe it. So that's already out there.

We're just ready to sort of scale it up when we go past the TGE. The other element which is a key thing for us in the long run is to be able to then, once you've created and customized your avatar and your wardrobe, to then be able to export that into other experiences, whether that be games or metaverse spaces or virtual worlds.

So we've done a whole bunch of testing and we know what we can do and then it'll be about developing the partnerships and the relationships that will enable that to happen. And luckily, because we're sort of part of the Animoca portfolio, we've got some good connections and insights into those areas. And there's actually a whole bunch of collaborations that we'll be announcing in the next coming weeks and months

within the portfolio of different projects that we're working announcing in the next coming weeks and months within the portfolio of different projects that we're working with within that network. Yeah, there's certainly a great company to form partnerships with. So you're in good hands there. Before we wrap things up, one of the things on the other shows that I like to do to kind of close things up is that you've got people who are coming here who are familiar with you, who are fans of what you guys are working on and want to hear a little bit more from you. But then we also have people that follow Scott, the town hall, Mario, and

everything that's going on over at IBC who might be hearing about you for the first time. So, you know, when we wrap things up today, give us one or two action items that, you know, everyone can do to kind of immediately support you guys, lift you up and help your project succeed? All right. There are two things that we are running at the moment. Later today, your time, tomorrow, our time, our claim page for Fash will go live. So what we've done is we have managed to accumulate or bring together through working with a company called Open Closet

a million wallets, just over a million wallets that have previously engaged with digital fashion, whether that be as collectibles or as wearables in virtual worlds or in gaming. You just need to go along, plug in that wallet into our claim page, and it will tell you if you're immediately eligible to receive Fash in two forms. One as an airdrop straight after TGE and one as a coupon which will be auto-minted and then becomes tradable and later on convertible to Fash. So there's a million wallets out there plus for people to just test.

It's at claim.bnv.foundation and we'll plug it into our Twitter feeds later on, our XVs later on. And that gives anybody the opportunity to get free Fash. And what we've done is we tried to make it so that it's not just bot farms jumping in, that it is targeted towards people that have an affiliation or a previous engagement with digital fashion so that's number one the second thing is it's live now is our eight powered by eight coin ape style battle royale it's a contest it's a styling contest anybody can join it but if you own an eight coin or more or any Yuga Lab IPs, if you have those in your wallet, you can access elevated product

to use to style your avatar and your outfit and then submit that into the contest. And that contest will be run by a Telegram mini app. And that's going to go live in approximately 10 days. Everything goes smoothly. We're sort of testing it out at the moment. And that gives everybody an opportunity to get into this battle royale. So last eight standing, we're starting with 128. We're getting it down to eight people. And those eight people

will be sharing a prize pool equivalent of 50,000 US dollars split between ApeCoin and Fash. So that's it. I mean, for us, it's a big event. It's a great proof of concept about how people can engage with digital fashion, combining both Web3 and fashion and virtual spaces. And obviously the game du jour is having it working on a telegram mini app

that's awesome taking advantage of telegram definitely a booming industry over there richard i appreciate you appreciate your time today you guys are building something very cool i'm excited for you guys to launch you know if you're listening in go follow them check them out on x click their profile right now they've got some really cool stuff that they're working on want to thank scott all of our speakers, everyone for coming to Crypto Town Hall today. That's all that we've got. We'll see you guys here tomorrow and have a great rest of your day.