The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin & Altcoins Skyrocet Ahead Of Senate Vote - What's Next For Crypto?

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Discover Bitcoin Yield: https://archpublic.com/ Bitcoin is breaking out, altcoins are surging, and Washington is about to vote on the most important stablecoin bill in years. I’m joined live by Andrew Parish and Tillman Holloway from Arch Public, Joshua Frank from The Tie, and Dave Weisberger to break it all down. We’ll cover the $70B BlackRock ETF milestone, the explosive growth of Bitcoin treasury companies, and why institutions are flooding in before regulation hits. Don’t miss this roundtable – everything’s changing fast. Andrew Parish: https://x.com/AP_Abacus Tillman Holloway: https://x.com/texasol61 Dave Weisberger: https://x.com/daveweisberger1 Joshua Frank: https://x.com/Joshua_Frank_ ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/ ►► Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities! 👉https://archpublic.com/ ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code '10OFF' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://x.com/scottmelker Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io/ Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c #Bitcoin #Crypto #ArchPublic The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Well, good morning crypto Twitter and others that have found their selves to this channel today. We've got Tillman, Dave and Josh, and we're following up here on a day after a day that saw Bitcoin pop in a serious way, as well as other assets. So we're here to talk about it. Is this rally sustainable? Where is it coming from? And where is it going? That will be the nature of the conversation today. So happy to have you here. Wanted to start with Dave because he's the guy with all the charts behind his head So he must know where we're headed. So Dave

Hit it my man I mean what was interesting about yesterday is the biggest part of the rally happened right as futures were closing which always makes me skeptical Yeah right as futures were closing, which always makes me skeptical. So you had what was a typical for the most recent past day of very low volatility grinding kind of higher without a whole lot of oomph behind it. And then the futures closed, probably there was an order that was running and it just ran out of selling

liquidity on the other side. The candles were not huge. It was not like massive market orders buying. But what we've been seeing is something that is just important to understand about how markets work is there are consistent buyers in Bitcoin. We kind of know where they're coming from, you know, institutions in the sense of corporations and large funds that are using things such as the software behind us, which is CoinRoutes and anyone who cares can go to coinroutes.com and check it out. But you know, effectively algorithms which are disciplined, slow algorithms that

are buying irrespective of signal, which is distinguished from Arch because Arch is essentially, you know, effectively deciding when to buy and when to sell. CoinRoutes is told, buy it over a period of hours, period of days, and it will continually and dutifully do so. When that's happening in a normal market, you don't necessarily know that it's happening. When it happens and sellers stop selling, the market goes higher in a grinding way. When the sellers overwhelm them, the market drops. We've been seeing this for months now. I'm really curious what Josh is seeing because his clients are the ones who are playing this game and trying to trade around it. The most important fact, and we talked about it on Macro Monday yesterday,

is that Bitcoin's volatility is now lower over the last few months than the S&P. Anyone who's watched Macro Monday for any length of time or Market Mavericks, which is the other show that he does with Scott, sees Mike McGlone constantly making this chirping that, well, Bitcoin is a high volatility asset that trades at three times the S&P. Well, guess what? That was true, but it certainly isn't true right now. Bitcoin is trading with lower volatility. And historically, whenever Bitcoin's volatility is compressed like this, it's been right before a big move to the upside. Does that mean it's going to happen this time? Of course not. Does it add to my thought that that will probably happen? Sure, it does. But markets rarely do what we expect. All I can say is even right now,

if you look at the chart right now, the intraday, the one minute candles are tiny. I mean, Bitcoin has been, let's see what I'm trying to get this right. So for the last hour, Bitcoin has traded in a range of less than $242. The last hour and a half, you know, as we go into the open, I mean, $200 just for those who understand can do math. That's less than, than you know, basically it's basically 20 basis points 0.2 percent for an hour during the quote price discovery time of Bitcoin that is Ridiculously low so well the market that's balanced and you know guys, you know that that's the way I'm looking at it and a balanced market tends to

Move violently when the balance is broken and who knows which direction the balance will be broken That's the way I'm looking at it and a balanced market tends to move Violently when the balance is broken and who knows which direction the balance will be broken with Josh I believe they call that institutional adoption, right? Once we get to this level of institutions trading Bitcoin owning Bitcoin the Black Rocks of the world the movements tend to tighten just a bit and they tighten inside of You know generally market hours 930 to to 4 p.m. things tighten up a bit. Here's what I find compelling right you know whatever the machinations of the move yesterday we are where we are and we haven't given it back in a meaningful way. At the same time Circle goes public and goes up 300 or whatever percent. So I

find it interesting that there's lots and lots of capital available for both increased inflows into Bitcoin as well as inflows into a quote-unquote crypto IPO, you know, across the institutional space. What have you been seeing? Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. I mean, look, to your point earlier, yeah, look, as assets become more liquid,

they generally become less volatile, right? And Bitcoin is incredibly liquid. So you're not gonna see, you know, yeah, I think Axelar pumped 70% this morning. You're not gonna see that in an asset like Bitcoin, just given the liquidity that it has now. And yeah, I think Circle's IPO has definitely brought a lot of euphoria to the market. It's trading at some insane multiples, which I think everyone, if I'm Jeremy Allaire and I'm within my window in which I can sell Circle Equity. I'm probably hitting the sell button as fast as I possibly can. And as much as I possibly can. And I

imagine that goes for a lot of shareholders in Circle because I mean, you guys probably have seen some of the numbers that have been shared on Twitter. I don't know them off the top of my head, but just looking at the difference in what Circle is trading at as a multiple of its USDC revenue versus what Coinbase is trading at as a multiple of its USDC revenue versus what Coinbase is trading at as a multiple of its USDC revenue, which is the same amount is completely insane. In terms of the altcoin market and why it's moving, I mean, you also have to remember the altcoin market has just been bleeding. And I think people are desperately looking for things to latch on to. I mean, I'm just looking at, you know,, 180 day returns. I mean, on the last 180

days, for anything not named, I'm looking at the top 25 by market cap. Everything is down 20%, 30%, 50%. Unless it's named hyperliquid or Bitcoin or actually Tron, sometimes defies markets as well, but as I think caught on a little bit to the stable coin narrative too. So yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think this is a bit of a bounce. I'm not aggressively on the narrative of the altcoins are totally rallying because I'm not convinced that there's a ton of new money funneling into the altcoin space at this point. Well, in the altcoin space, to be fair, the capital that's going to find itself into the crypto space via traditional markets, the IPO markets, that's going to happen at the exchange level, the stablecoin level. There aren't any altcoins set to go public.

Well, but there are these new public treasury companies that are being set up to buy some of the alts. So that's starting a little bit and that's going to create some bid as we've seen, as well as ETFs starting to get approved around alts. I think there's going to be a lot of, I mean, I think there's a lot of excitement around staking ETFs getting approved and potentially increasing demand, as well as more, I would say, smaller cap all ETFs and multi-asset all ETFs. So I think there will be a public market play here. But I think certainly, you'd like to see money funneling into

the crypto space. And I think that might start to happen. I mean, I think it also, if you have crypto, I think the way that it comes into the market is actually different than how a lot of people are thinking about it. There are a lot of crypto funds that do both equity investments and token investments. If a crypto fund had circle in it, all of a sudden, their DPI to their investors is going to look materially higher, and they're going to have better returns, and they might be able to raise more capital. And so I think, you know, funds that are both equity and token funds might actually see some decent performance here and could potentially, you know, attract some institutional inflows. And you know, if we get more capital into liquid funds that are buying tokens, I think

that's broadly beneficial. I mean, most funds in crypto are what I would describe as like crossover funds and equity markets, right? That are trading both liquid and equity positions. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's gonna have some knock on effect, right? And if people are excited about crypto broadly, family office might be like, how do I get involved?

How do I play? And so, I'm hopeful that that creates some knock on effect. But I don't think it is. Tillman, what do you think the you know, the second half of because we're just starting the second half of 2025? What is the narrative, the overall narrative, do you think is going to dominate? Is it going to be Bitcoin balance sheet, Bitcoin treasury, or will it be the launch of ETFs associated with XRP and Solana and others associated with altcoins? What do you think is going to dominate headlines? I think just as an overarching theme, people prefer more volatility than not these days in

whatever they're trading. I think trying to pick where the godcandle is gonna happen for bitcoins a futile exercise. I don't try to do that anymore. I look at that as my long-term hodl bag and you're, it's a savings account, right? You're just putting it away with almost a guarantee that it's not going to inflate and lose its purchasing power out from underneath you over time and then you know if you look at if that's compartmentalized and then you look at the volatility that Bitcoin presents Wall Street loves predictability, loves it, and if you combine predictability with volatility you get a

lot of opportunity. And so you look at this stupid headline between Trump and Musk, it produced 10% move, five down, 5 up, on a highly liquid, instantly settled asset that you really don't care if you don't have the upside immediately because you're trying to accumulate for the long term anyways. And so if you know how to play the volatility, then you know that it looks to me like Wall Street is setting up all types of vehicles that work off of the base asset of Bitcoin. And, you know, to Josh's point, the equity piece of this and the amount of debt capital that you can raise with Bitcoin on your balance sheet versus without it on your balance sheet is a material game changer. It changes your entire existence

and your identity to the world and takes you from the small state or the crowded stage where you're not getting any of the spotlight attention to being like one of the few people that get a lot of stage time in this world and that's exceptionally valuable when you're really selling nothing more than holding Bitcoin on your balance sheet right first to market mover advantage is like where everything is so I think there's gonna be some

underlying currents that really move the markets. I think banking and the adoption of Bitcoin in the banking system is a massive, massive theme. But I do think the overarching theme is the yield potential of the volatility of Bitcoin and major players looking at, okay, if I want to own more of this long term, and I believe it's going to what Larry Fink says it's going to, and it's something I want to own more of this long term and I believe it's going to what Larry Fink says it's going to and it's something I need to diversify into, well then I'm gonna play the volatility to my advantage and when you have when you're sitting on a lot of cash you're never forced to sell and by definition those people are all sitting on a lot of cash that's why they're trying to diversify

into Bitcoin. So it's a different driver this go-around than we've ever seen in the markets before. I've said this before on a lot of podcasts but you know the first cycle I was ever a part of, the miners drove the price. If the miners were selling, the price went down. If the miners were holding, the price went up. It was really that simple. And then the next cycle, it was like the ICO type craze where it was whichever exchange offered the hottest token, that was where all the volume shifted to, and that's really what drove the markets and the pumps. This is all Wall Street, I think, this go-around. It feels completely different to me. The

volatility is tightening, but it's tightening in an upward trend, which is the predictability plus the volatility that yields opportunity. So that's the way I kind of look at it. And everyone who knows how to play that game, they're exceptionally excited about Bitcoin. There is no news that you can tell them that makes them sell like the Elon Trump fight. That's just a buying opportunity for those people. They don't see that as a, oh crap, this is gonna change my investment strategy as it pertains to diversifying out of the dollar. So I think that's where the retail is getting flushed out. And as long as there's retail to get flushed out, which there is, a lot of volume, lots

of leverage getting absolutely decimated during these shakeouts, why wouldn't they do it? It's how they make money and accumulate a stack. BlackRock exec said yesterday, and I think it's important to try and push ourselves outside of the crypto bubble. But his point was financial advisors, wealth management folks across the country and across the globe are just now beginning to dip their toe into the Bitcoin and overall crypto space because it's now becoming generally accepted and available and we're talking about very very small amounts and then those amounts continuing to grow over over time. Nobody has a better pulse on that than

BlackRock obviously with their most successful ETF in the history of their company, iBit. So you know where do we head in terms of volumes? Where do we head? Is that effectively a bid underneath the price of Bitcoin for a while? And you know, what does that mean? You know, we watch, you know, whether it's Tom Lee or others on different shows, and it's, you know, short term 250 to 300 K long-term 3 million you know just talk about the dynamics of what that looks like you know short and

long-term associated with Bitcoin price and how are different organizations especially on the institutional side Josh how are they positioning how are they playing both short-term movements and then long-term what I would just call Philosophical commitments to Bitcoin as an asset. Yeah, I mean I would just comment here that when we talked about black rock buying It's not black rock buying. It's of course Of course, of course We all we all know that and from talking to a lot of the ETF issuers more than half of that is still retail Right. So even though it's BlackRock being bought, it's still retail on their brokerage account

buying the BlackRock product. And when you talk about financial advisors offering Bitcoin, that's retail people that end up buying Bitcoin. And so there still is a lot of retail that's behind this. It's just retail, you know, being able to access these products more accessibly or maybe having people that they trust and brands that they trust putting their name behind these products as well. A lot of yes, there is certainly 100% institutional bid 100%.

That's a huge part of what's driving this. But there's also a lot of forced buying activity through a lot of these, you know, Treasury strategies as well. That's that's that's bidding up price. I would you know, like it's impossible to know. But I would guess that more of the movement is happening because of all these Treasury companies bids than because of Bitcoin, because, you know, like Michael Seller will top blast Bitcoin. I mean, he talks about it. He's more than happy to top blast Bitcoin.

Not always. Not always. I see Dave hates what I just said. But are you on mute, Dave? I can't hear you. Yeah, he is on mute. Yeah, I'll comment on that in a second. But finish please. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, look, I mean, I think that's part of it. But to the point, and also institutional buying is not always buying. Sometimes it's, you know, sometimes it's doing a basis trade or something else

to take advantage of moving to the market. But I do think there is, because of the ability of financial advisors to offer Bitcoin, because of now Bitcoin is part of this dialogue of, hey, should you have a half a percent, a 1% or 2% exposure to Bitcoin? Look, I have the majority of my liquid assets in Bitcoin. So I'm a huge believer in the narrative and I'm behind it. So yeah, I get it. But it's more than just institutional. There's certainly still retail

bidding here as well. Yeah. I mean, I want to make two comments. Well, actually, probably. There's a bunch of stuff to talk about. You always want to make at least two. The word top. I hate the word top blast because that's not what he does. Actually, I think we're on five straight weeks of buying from sailor where his published price was below the price on the day. I think I said he's not afraid to top last. Right. Well, yes. But the point is, is I think you and I both know that you're going to agree with what I'm saying. It's just a question of words. There are a lot of people out there that believe that Sailor buys OTC and just buys the top and pushes the price up. And the reality is he's Sailor's using algorithms via in most

likelihood is it used to be Coinbase. I suspect it still is Coinbase and Coinbase has an algorithmic platform that's very similar to CoinRoutes. And so I understand it pretty well, is they bought one of our competitors six years ago. And that allows Sailor to stretch his buyout over a short period of time, probably a day or two in the middle of the week, and then he announces it on the weekend. And that's why in an uptrend, he tends to look like he's buying it. What he's totally not afraid to do is to put capital to work because he believes Bitcoin is north of a 90% discount to where it should be.

And therefore, the more he can get to work sooner, the more money his shareholders, and he, by the way, being the largest shareholder, will make. And so that's his philosophy. But this notion of Bitcoin treasury companies really boils down into two things. Thing number one, and we've seen this before, is a copycat. Okay, I have cash that I might have otherwise put into treasuries to, you know, or I might have used to buy back my own stock. But if instead of doing that, I buy Bitcoin, I can pump my stock more than by buying my own stock. And a lot of companies are starting to

realize that. Keep in mind, and this is the data sailors first conference where he had CFOs who were interested, who were Bitcoin curious was 2,400 CFOs. There are less, well less than 200 of those, IE less than 10% have put money into Bitcoin at this point. And there are quite a few other CFOs of other public companies around the world who have done absolutely nothing. And this is a copycat world. We saw it in, I saw it viscerally in front of my eyes 20 some odd years ago, when every single company was putting out a press release about how they had a website. Why? Because if you said you had a website, your stock went up. Companies are going to put cash into Bitcoin. It is inevitable because they're going to see it as a better way to manage treasury

and also at the same time, boost their stock price. And until it stops working, they're going to do it, which means this is not even close to the endgame yet. Yet all the people in the crypto world, not all, but a lot, look at this and say, oh, my God, when they introduced futures, that was the top signal. Oh, my God, when we get a lot of leverage, the market drops. And that one is true, except for the general part of leverage, the thing that you really care about, which are the funding rates on the perpetual exchanges that in previous tops traded five times the volume of spot are very, very low. There's not a lot of hype out there.

And so if you ask yourself about price drivers, it's like corporate America and corporate world people will be buying Bitcoin because it makes sense as they make as they have earnings. Now, if we go into a recession, they'll have less earnings, they'll need to sell because that's cash that they might need. If the economy stays OK, it will continue to go up. And so this is an important factor. As far as retail is concerned, yeah, absolutely. People are starting to buy.

They're dipping their pinky toe into the water. But go out and have conversations with normal people. I've had a lot of people asking me about it, and I'm pretty sure none of them have done anything about it. And I've given them advice. Right. And that's a big part of it because retail tends to get in when, when you see lots of Google searches, lots of hype, lots of volatility, not when it's calm.

Tillman, the balance sheet, the balance sheet conversation is not just a narrative. Right. There's actual math behind it. Talk about that math and what it does. Revenue, earnings, all of those things. I think there's always the sizzle and then there's the stake. I think the sizzle is the public highly leveraged debt financed Bitcoin treasury companies. I think those are the sexiest things to talk about because they have the largest MNAV. I don't think that that's really what the

substance of this movement is about. I think the substance of the movement is about real companies that are private and small putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet because they're the ones that need it the most and they're they're cash flow positive They're not zombie companies that have been resurrected from the dead just for the purpose of holding Bitcoin Yeah, you can raise money on debt Fantastic. Yes, you've created a vehicle that You know allows more people to own Bitcoin based upon their charter laws and rules All of those things great for adoption all All those things great for the depth of

liquidity of the markets. But the real narrative, and I know this because I'm working with a lot of customers, and that's what ArchPublic does, is help you set up your own personal treasury strategy and have it execute for you, and help you set up a corporate treasury strategy. And you would not believe the amount of money that is out there wanting to fund private deals that are cash flow positive that want to have a Bitcoin treasury component to it. Because they understand, like, what, here's a perfect example of what the difference is. What if you had done that through Dillard's heyday? What would Dillard's

company structure look like right now? They would be so flush, they'd be high on the horse. They'd have so many Bitcoin if they had dedicated 20%, 10% of net profits into a Bitcoin treasury strategy, a savings account essentially. And you know if you do the math you can see that like one of our customers you know their company across all of their locations does about 25.7 percent in net profits well when you deploy 10% of those net profits into Bitcoin it doubles then the She's checking in on me this morning, making sure I'm doing all right. God's been in my damn bitcoins. No, but I think that what's going to really drive this is people recognizing it for its true utility.

And I think that's what this whole cycle is going to be about, is what is the utility of the crypto that you're participating in. And I think we've all voted, everyone in TradFi and crypto sanity world, that the best utility for Bitcoin is a store of value, a hedge against inflation, an indication of global inflation, however you wanna characterize it. It is the best measurement tool we have ever designed to tell us really how many dollars are being inflated into the global economy.

That is what its usefulness is. And when you put your money towards that and it's got a limited scarce supply, price go up. That's just as simple as it gets. So I think utility is going to be what drives this market. I think you're seeing that on the Bitcoin front. I think private companies are going to adopt it as a strategy because there's a lot of utility behind it. If you're a construction company and you're having to go out and get construction bonds for your projects and you're paying one, two percent per job to get those contracts bonded, you could self-bond if you just put 10% of your net profits into Bitcoin for long enough, and then you just pledge that collateral against the risk, and you're self bonding your projects,

and you put them in a very competitive market with very small margins and a lot of risk and a lot of cost to carry, you've created a competitive advantage for yourself that allows you to grow quicker than the guy down the street. And that's a huge deal that's going to drive more VC dollars into those models, expand the territory that they cover, the market share that they have in every sector and category on the face of the earth. And one more thing before I will say the Michael Saylor thing is very, I think, misunderstood. He does tease about like, yeah I'm smash buying the tops and stuff, but what he's really doing is taking advantage of the line of credit when it's the highest. The price of Bitcoin, when it's the highest, makes the price of his shares the highest. He's borrowing money against the price of the shares the highest. He's borrowing money against the price

of the shares, so he's getting the most leverage when the price of Bitcoin's the highest. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's no different than him just going to the bank when the bank's offering him more money. And so that's why he's buying the tops is because he's getting a better multiplier in terms of the cash that he can borrow against that purchase. And if it deviates a little bit from the tops, as long as he's essentially securing the capital at the place where he can secure the most or get the most out of it, then that's really what he cares about. That's the way I see it at least. So those are my two cents. You kind of make a point about just to back up something you just said, way I see it at least. So those are my two cents. Can I make a point about, just

to back up something you just said, because I think it's critical. So you use the word utility. I don't know if any of you guys watched yesterday, I did, the roundtable that the SEC crypto task force had. But there were a bunch of really interesting nuggets in there. I think that the most interesting though came from SEC Chair Paul Atkins, who effectively gave his wholehearted blessing to the fact that people should be, that it should be a fundamental right to effectively self-custody.

This is a huge deal because the SEC for quite a while, through multiple administrations, and Caitlin Long documented this really well yesterday, has been on the war path against bearer assets because it decreases control, etc. But if somebody could use a platform like ARCH, for example, buy on Gemini or other exchanges, take that Bitcoin, put it into their own wallet, be able to handle it in their own finance and be self-sovereign, that is true utility for that person. And in fact, the chair of the SEC,

which is really a mouthpiece for the administration at this point. I mean, Brian Kintenz hasn't been confirmed at the CFTC, but I guarantee you he says this, will say similar things. He has, he's been an advisor to multiple crypto companies after working at the CFTC What that means is the regulatory apparatus of the United States is behind the utility of Bitcoin This is this is a non-trivial thing. Now. Do I think that's what caused the rally yesterday? No Could it have caused a rally of people were paying attention? Sure

Should I know? Could it? I've caused a rally of people were paying attention. Sure. The other big thing that's happening is the stablecoin bill and talks about the market structure bill. Now, people, the policy wants to talk about this a lot, but it's a very big deal because what the stablecoin bill will do is it will revolutionize the payment system globally, certainly starting in the United States and going from three days to move money to three seconds.

And that matters. That means that money, which used to be trapped, and there's about six trillion that's trapped in accounts that don't pay very much interest. And we kind of blithely toss out, oh, $6 trillion is trapped. $6 trillion is trapped. And so that money is going to go to yield bearing or appreciation style savings vehicles. So if even a small percentage of people believe that, hey, this idea of saving in Bitcoin and spending in dollars is a good way to live my life, companies will come up with products to do it. And because the stable coins will be able to implement it, because those of course will be on tokenized and so therefore it'll all be using stable rail.

So it's a very big deal. You're going to be hearing about this a lot more in the back half of the summer. But keep in mind that these are the key gating factors. So once we get a stable coin bill, once you have this stuff go through, then all of a sudden, a lot of what we know is technically possible will start getting developed by companies. Does this, you know, a question that I have, and part of the question is, are we not talking about this enough, right? Is this the kind of

thing that you know is circle the kind of thing that we're not talking about enough you know a week in you know not even a week into its life cycle as a as a public company and is the the adoption let's call it the the hoovering up of the share price to push it to where it is, does that make a material difference in the stablecoin bill getting done? Absolutely getting done as opposed to there's still a little bit of a question about it. What mean, I think the answer is predictable, to use your words, somewhat sad, but pretty inevitable. And that is I just actually posted this somebody, it was Clint Donnelly posted something about hearing about how the Democrats are rallying behind the stablecoin bill, not even understanding what it is. And their reason is because of campaign

funding from the crypto industry. You know, the more if it becomes incredibly obvious to anybody who's not living under a rock that there is a public appetite for people involved in crypto for their equity. What does that mean? Well, that means more money moving into politics and that those politicians, that's really what they care about. And so the answer to your question becomes yes. May not be for the reason that I want it to be yes, but the answer is I think yes. Yeah, again, the amount of capital, to me the narrative for the rest of the year is the amount of capital that's gonna continue to move into the space for principally two reasons.

Companies in the space going public and they have effectively new currency to throw around and throw around like crazy. Go look at what Coinbase did in their first 18 months after they went public and the amount of companies they cobbled up. And then secondarily, again, the stablecoin bill is going to make a material difference

in the way that money is moved or go the way that markets react to the way that money is moved. If you're able to move money as Dave just said in three seconds, there's got to be structural changes to the way that markets react to it. You've seen that with NASDAQ filings to go to 24-5. Robinhood is doing the same. We're going to go to probably 24-5 across everything, and then it just becomes a question of at what point do we get to 24-7.

So change, oftentimes, there's a decade of change that can happen in a few months. And I think we're to some degree on the precipice of that. I think that's absolutely the case over the next six to 12 months. We'll see the structure of markets rapidly change. And you know, it is there is something to be said that crypto has effectively pushed innovation in that direction and nudged and nudged and nudged and pushed and pushed and pushed until we find ourselves in that position. What are the opportunities? The question is what are the opportunities associated with a 24-5?

What are the opportunities with a 24-7? What are the opportunities associated with the adjustments and changes to how money moves? That's the question. And put it to the panel, where are the opportunities? Where do the opportunities come from when there are structural changes? I think the structural changes are great.

I do think it adds volatility to the mix because you have less liquid timeframes to take advantage of which pushes price. I don't think that's the real thing that has caused me pause this cycle as it pertains to specifically stablecoins. Stablecoins, I've always had a problem with them. Here's the problem. Counter-party risk, execution risk. I love if they're denominated in T-bills because it strengthens the U.S. dollar. I think we all as Americans have to agree that we want to keep the U.S. dollar as strong as possible globally. And so how do we use this technology to

support that narrative? Because that's the narrative that we go to war over. That is the strongest narrative. It's the one that we've defended this, you know, with the most might. And that's why we've been as successful in creating opportunity through entrepreneurism and innovation as we have, because that's what drives our markets. And so I think that when you're looking at stable coins, what Caitlin Long did about a couple of months ago on that podcast with us, when she announced the first deposit token transfer

between banks internationally, she kind of blew my mind and I still haven't figured out how to get out of the tailspin because here's my logic behind this. Stablecoins, if they're denominated in T-bills, great. Use them on exchanges for instant settlement for 24-7 functionality, all those great things. You know, the new stock market that they're opening up in Texas, let it run on stable coins. Fine, great, as long as they're denominated in T-bills. But where the delineation and the real interesting piece comes in for me is is how the banking system is going to transfer the money because they've got the technology right now to take money in your bank account and create a digital cashier's check, send that to another bank that's instantly settled into another participant's bank account.

Why is that such a big deal? Well, because if you fat finger a stablecoin transfer, you're screwed. If the bank fat fingers a deposit token transfer, they go to the courts and print new money and they get your deposit back. Yeah, but I think I think I think that's I mean, the courts have ordered us have ordered circle and tether to freeze a ton of assets. I don't think that's a problem at this point. I mean, you really were ordered freezes of stablecoins all the

time. Yeah. Well, it's interesting with regulation, right, especially with with, you know, us regulated stablecoin issuers. I don't think that's gonna be a problem at all. It's incredibly, I mean, you see it whenever, you know, North Korea, the Lazarus group hacks a ton of stables. They immediately try to get them out of stables because they know that they're going to be frozen. Uh, the second that they find out, right. I think you're right on some fronts, but I know a lot of, uh, folks, and I've read a lot of articles where

the courts haven't ruled in their favor. And so I think what, to your point, I think the courts are going to have to decide what precedence is here. And they're going to have to... I mean, you explained a chase transfer to Wells Fargo. I think if chase goes to the court about a transfer, that's different than individual going to the court about a transfer, right? Just the amount of power a large US bank is going to have, especially once stablecoins become regulated. I would agree with that. I think we need to see the courts though from a retail perspective. If we're all allowed to use stablecoins, why would I want to use them individually if I don't have any protection? Yeah, no, look, I don't know. I can't comment on that, but I'm just...

What matters about stablecoins, and there's a lot of things that matters. But what matters about stable coins is the actual technology to transfer money from bank to bank from be able to pay your bills is about to get dramatically faster and cheaper. And so we have all this stuff wrapped around a archaic system. There is a reason why credit card companies get 3% and it's not just because of air miles and it's not just because there are a bunch of things that people will still do. Look, people will still use credit cards.

You know why? Because you want to know that if you buy something and it breaks or they screw you that the credit card company can withhold payment and get the money back and claw the back. So it's not like they're going to go away. But underneath the credit cards, the payment mechanisms are going to be stable coins. Why? Because it's dramatically faster, cheaper, more efficient.

And so when you make things dramatically faster, cheaper, more efficient, it allows, it takes friction out of the process. The most important thing with stable coins, I will continue to tell people, is the frictional cost of moving money is going to decrease. We have this idea, there are all these ideas in the banking system that we needed that were adaptations to inefficiency, things like overdraft protections and overdraft accounts, and of course overdraft fees for when the bank decides to cover for you and you pay for that well These things don't become necessary if the bank has access to your accounts But right now we've structured it in a way that they're that they're separate. Hell fractional reserve banking as a tot in totality exists because Capital used to be really localized and you couldn't get capital in a certain, you know

If you were in Jimmy Stewart's Village, whatever the name of that town was, and it's a wonderful life, you needed the savings and loan because there was no way to get capital any other way. Well, with the internet and the rise of mobile capital, you could make a very strong argument that's no longer necessary. The point here is that crypto is revolutionizing the financial system. It's what we've been talking about in some of our cases in my case for eight years. It's now starting to be seen.

This is simply one of the first places with product market fit inside the financial system. There will be many, many others, you know, there this thing that they were talking about DeFi yesterday. The problem with DeFi isn't that that it's not a good idea. I mean things like Ave, they pointed out, succeeded, whereas all the centralized lenders failed, or the vast majority of them did, because it was code. And sure, that's true.

That's absolutely true, actually. But I view it as more of a proof of concept. When you have DeFi underneath the trillions in the securitization market, then it will be something. But those are all future things. It's just important to understand where the building blocks are. And so if you're looking at a strategy, it makes sense.

I think the question that everyone listening wants to know, though, isn't our stablecoins exciting, which I think everyone at this point completely agrees on. It's, Dave, I'm looking at your screen. You probably got Bitcoin at the top, but there's a lot of things under that. I think the question people have is, what does it mean for everything under Bitcoin at your screen. You probably got Bitcoin at the top, but there's a lot of things under that. I think the question people have is what does it mean for everything under Bitcoin on your screen over there?

Right. And that's a great question. So, you know, there are like, for example, let's pick the two that, uh, I don't remember whether it was Tillman or Andrew mentioned. So two of the coins that are on there are XRP and Solana. XRP and Solana and a bunch of others are vying to be the base layer to support new transaction modalities. Now, boy, does that sound geeky. But the fact is, is that the way exchanges work and the way money moves when you have when it is right now, everything

is centralized exchanges, everything is done via proprietary systems, both XRP more in payments and Solana more in trading are vying to be part of a newer globalized infrastructure. If those things take form. So if Solana broadens beyond memes to trading of everything, then it's going to be worth a shit ton more than it is today. The total addressable market for providing that as a base layer is significant. The same thing with XRP with regard to payments and Swift. If XRP underlies the stable coins that are become, basically not just RLUSD, but if Chase

Coin and JP Morgan Coin all use the XRP ledger, then it will have value. If it doesn't, it won't. And so it really becomes a question of that word that I think it was Andrew that used, which is utility. If they have utility, they will be worth more. Elsewise on the screen, and of course you could mention Ether in the same thing in terms of tokenization. And so, you know, that's a big deal. I mean, I'm watching very interesting to see how Kraken does with their pilot for having US equities trade outside the United States 24 seven. I suspect it will do better than some people think. And if it does, that's going to be a pretty important proof of concept. But there are many other things going on in crypto, there is gaming, there is deep in, there is defy in terms of financing and whatnot. And so different tokens will will succeed. The number is much lower than we have today. Yeah, you're never going to go wrong in in, you know, following the messaging of where things are headed in financial markets associated with BlackRock, right? So they've got their Biddle portfolio that's grown from 500 million, just sort of at the outset to three and a half billion now,

let's call it over the last four and a half, six months. That's not because those assets have dramatically increased in price. It's because their customers are shoveling money into that portfolio. And again, it's funny, Dave, you know this, we hosted a bunch of people in our arch public lounge, one of them Jack Mallers at the Bitcoin conference,

and he made a statement that I think is the statement of all statements at the Bitcoin conference, and that was Larry Fink has become the CMO of Bitcoin, because he won't stop talking about it. And that's true also of the next phase and the next phase and the next phase. So it's extraordinary to be in this moment with Bitcoin and crypto overall, where you have the rise of crypto as an asset just beyond crypto and into TradFi and all of those things. But there's going to be another wave, as Josh just mentioned. What's what's the next couple of assets that rise and become part of the conversation?

Well, again, BlackRock is going to be a mover in that space. Why? Because they're going to be using those tokens in some way, shape or form in the tokenization of real-world assets That's another thing that Larry think kind of can't stop talking about right? So if you're following Bitcoin in the the the rise of Bitcoin across Traditional financial markets and their I bit product becoming the fastest growing ETF ever Well that that you probably should have followed that particular marker from BlackRock. You probably should follow the idea of the tokenization of

real world assets and where that goes and follow what it is that BlackRock has their hands in, in terms of those individual assets. Yeah, I Yeah, BlackRock isn't going to go much further outside of Bitcoin and ETHO, at least not anytime soon, is my understanding. You know, they're a gigantic company. Is their Biddle portfolio just a waste of time or they just goofing off? No, no, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that. But but but in terms of ETFs and stuff like that, I mean, there's just a materially different numbers between 170 billion or whatever

the number they have is in the Bitcoin or whatever that may be 70 billion, whatever the number they have in the Bitcoin ETF is and some of these smaller assets. I mean, remember the market cap a lot of the of a lot of altcoins is just not large enough for BlackRock to be interested, right? It's just not. I mean, you know what you can't you can't put three billion is just not large enough for BlackRock to be interested. It's just not. You can't put $3 billion in anything outside of the top five by market cap, even a billion, you can't.

It's just not liquid enough. So I think the question I tried to pose earlier is, well, okay, so stable coins are the future, and stable coins will be used for payments and other things. What does that mean for crypto? So for example, over the last 90 days, as an example, just looking, there's been 15 billion in net stable coin issuance on Tron versus Ethereum is second with about 1.2 billion. And so there's a lot of issuance on Tron. So the question is, do stable coin transactions drum up

a lot of activity on networks, which increases the demand for a token because it's needed for gas. And does that drive buying activity? Do stablecoin issuers care which networks their tokens are issued on? Do people become agnostic to where a stablecoin is actually issued? And we just get to the point where there's more and more and more and more chains being deployed so that transactions can be increasingly small and maybe that stablecoin demand doesn't necessarily drive down to the chain level as well. And I think the same thing goes for RWAs or anything else. Does anyone care what chain these products are built on? I mean, I'm not saying today, but I'm saying in the future, right? And what does that mean for layer ones and layer twos, right?

Okay, you attracted Tr you know, Tron, Tron added 15 billion in stable coins. You guys probably didn't even know that fact, right? I mean, about 90% of the new stable coin issuance in the last 90 days is on Tron. Does that mean that you should buy Tron? That's kind of more of the question I was alluding to. Well, I think you're right,

but I think that again, points to utility. Tron is a regional utility. That's not, I don't know a lot of people that are using that functionality here in the United States, but I know a ton of people that are using it abroad. And so it's kind of like, you know, what do you use that's the best tool that you have access to that's solving a material problem in your life?

It's not as large of a problem here. The only thing that I keep coming back to and I'd love to hear you guys' opinion about it is how do you regulate stable coins against cannibalizing the power of the dollar? Shouldn't all stable coins essentially be backed by USD? And shouldn't there be clear correlation between what you hold as a base currency against the stable coins that you print. Like, how do you how do you what do you guys think about that? How do you see that? Well, I mean, the genius act is exceedingly clear. Right. You know, and it's and it's

distinct from the the mica version of the of the regulation in Europe. So the dollar stablecoins will be backed by short-term treasuries basically. I think they're allowed to use bank deposits, but after the one point about stablecoins that I love to make and it makes everyone who, any one of the bank lobby people, the American Bankers Association gives them dyspepsia because they have to agree that understand that it's true. The only DPEG that of material DPEG that we've

seen in USDC happened because they had made them stupid mistake of putting 30% of their funds in a bank and Silicon Valley Bank had to be propped up and FDIC didn't cover most of it. So if it wasn't for a bailout, then it could have depegged. And so what's important is, is that the Genius Act effectively says the only thing that is a stable coin is something that is fully backed by short term, basically US government paper or insured paper, that's it. And so there is no risk about that.

What does this mean? This means that anything else that calls themselves a stable coin, whether it's algorithmic or backed by something else, isn't in the analysis. I did not know that. I appreciate you clarifying that. That's a huge distinction for me.

And I do think- What's important, just to be complete, to show you just how dumb the Europeans are. And it's mind boggling how stupid they are sometimes. Is in the MICA rules, it actually says, I think it's 40%, but a very large double digit percentage of all backing for stable coins that are Euro backed stable coins have to be in banks.

So effectively you take a system that would be fully backed, de-risked, and you make it risky by trusting the banking system in a world where people will charge money for risk, meaning that their stable coins are going to Europe stable coins that are authored under MICA are going to trade below priority. That's just the way it is. Whereas Tether probably won't be legal as a stable coin, but they're, you know, they're just move out and people it Tether right now and it has traded at a premium for a very long time

Whenever markets do well and the reason just so you know the reason for minting stable coins right now the use case for stable coins By far the biggest use case is to buy crypto. It's a gateway, right? people buy tether in order to buy crypto. There are lots of Countries around the world where you could go into your bank You could deposit whatever your local currency is and you could come out the other side with USDT and Then use that to buy crypto. So that effectively promotes the dollar internationally, which is why That USDT isn't that plus Howard Lutnick's

company is one of the backers. I mean, Howard was at Canterford Sterile, this son is running it now. It's one of the reasons why Tether will likely not be excluded from US stablecoins or at least be able to participate because it is supported as a huge buyer of treasuries bigger than I think 13, you know, all but 13 countries or 12 countries. And but it's the gateway to buying crypto. Now, stable coins are going to expand way beyond this as the gateway to buying crypto, it will be the gateway to do

all payments and all buying. But that's going to take time. Yeah, we're going to shift. Thanks, Josh and Dave for being with us today. We appreciate all the commentary. We're going to shift to a little bit of our public discussion, but thanks for your time today and have a wonderful, wonderful Tuesday. Thanks guys. Much appreciate it. Thanks guys. So taking a look at, you know, ArchPublicAlgos, we, you know, everybody knows or should know at this point that our algos are free for use. So if you're gonna be involved in what we do and how we do it and you wanna dip your toe in

and take a look at how our algorithms work, your ability to make adjustments and turn twists and levers and turn them into what you want them to do, it's all free. It's all free for you to use. Something that I wanted to highlight, you know, in this past seven days, we had this big, you know, Musk Trump dust up, and it turned into the volatility that offered opportunity for people in space to grab assets that they like cheaper. But were you able to do that? Were you able to do that at the bottom of that particular feud?

And where do we stand today? And so taking a look at what our algorithms just did on their own in the midst of that, you bought Bitcoin at 101, right? We're sitting at 109 and change as we talk here today. You bought XRP at $2.09. We're at $2.29 right now. You bought Solana at 145.

And if I'm looking at it correctly, we're at 159. Earlier today, we were at 160 and change. So you're looking at 8%, 6%,%, nearly 12% plus on Solana in just a few days associated with those purchases. Again, Tillman, talk about the ability that humans do or do not have to make those decisions when Bitcoin is moving closer and closer to going under 100. In fact, I think we were on this show last week or on a show like it and Bitcoin was moving in that 100 space and I think Dave said I wouldn't be surprised if we wake up in

the morning and we're in the 90s. We never got there, right? So even the even the the tried-and-true, been-around-for- around for a long time, crusty trader guy is thinking that it's going underneath the 100K and it didn't, right? So algorithms are smarter than all of us. And so talk about what it means. It's not about intelligence, right? The markets are there to prove you wrong.

They don't care about what your opinion is. All they do is move to the liquidity. So if the liquidity is below the price, they're going to most likely move to that pocket of liquidity. If the liquidity is above the price, the market maker is going to move it to that pocket of liquidity. And if you're not trained in looking at the depth of liquidity in a market, you're not able to make decisions based upon liquidity. And so algorithms, again, aid you in the ability to do a lot of complicated math behind the scenes

without you having to do any of it, and then execute based upon that math. And so it's more about discipline, and it's more about not trying to time the market. I think Dave and every professional trader out there will tell you that the first realization that they had on their way to being a successful trader is realizing that they can't time the market and that they have to have systematic approaches that are based upon risk-reward ratios and probability and the probability is a guess and you're doing

your best to try to you know read the tea leaves so to speak but that is short-term trading the interesting thing about algos is it's it's not it's not focused on trading for profit what it's focused on is getting you great cost entry points so when you're looking at Bitcoin and you have these massive dips in a one-day period or a four-hour period, you should be asking yourself, you know, is this a time to buy? Not is this a time to panic sell with the rest of the sellers? And so algorithms keep a very disciplined approach and don't let you make bad decision based upon the emotion that's in the moment. And so when you see an Elon Musk Twitter feud with Trump and the price of Bitcoin falls,

think about it. How does that have anything? What does that have to do with Bitcoin? How is that going to impact Bitcoin's adoption curve? It's not. In fact, every other sign that you could read, every other headline is going, Bitcoin is being adopted at an increased pace with every day that goes on. That would be the logical way to look at the markets and go, ha, there's an irrational, emotional driven response.

I'm going to take advantage of that. And if you do that over time, and if you, for example, most of our customers keep a pretty full bias ratio of buy to sell in their strategy. And so if you did that, you didn't sell 100% of what you bought at 101 at 107. If you had a two to one, you sold 50%. So you bought at 101 because it was an exhausted candle that allowed you an opportunity to buy a dip,

to buy your favorite commodity asset on sale. And then when the volatility presented upside, you took some off the table so you had more cash to reinvest back into Bitcoin. It's very, very simple guys. It's not a, it's not, you know, a genie in a bottle that's printing imaginary cash out of thin air. It's really about just taking advantage of the volatility that presents itself in Bitcoin every single

day. That's why we love it. Because if you know how to play the volatility, you don't have to wait for a hundred percent price increase. You can grab ten, ten percent price increases and that means you can grab ten five percent swings like we just had. We had a five percent swing to the downside and then we had a five percent return up to the upside. That's a ten percent movement if you know how to take advantage of it. You stack ten of those together and it's as if you doubled your stack. how to take advantage of it. You stack 10 of those together and it's as if you doubled your stack. And so taking advantage of that volatility I think is impossible for manual traders. I think it's highly emotional, highly stressful, and you have to be sitting

in front of your computer 24-7. Yeah, no, it's not easy. I mean, again, to the point that I made, Dave is the sharpest they get and it's his thought that I made, you know Dave is as sharp as they get and you know, it's his thought process Well, you know, you probably will probably see a little bit of a dip down in the 90s and all of us kind of shook our head That makes sense. And again, it didn't happen and so associated with programmatic Decision-making and I've said this so many times over the last six months decision-making and I've said this so many times over the last six months there used to be you know 5,000 people on the floor in New York Stock Exchange making emotional decisions based on price movements. Those people no longer

exist. Those people are not on the floor anymore because programmatic algorithmic trading dominates traditional finance, absolutely dominates it. And at some point that's coming to crypto, just so happens that ArchPublic is a first mover in the space. And you have the opportunity to use that programmatic capability for free. You go to archpublic.com, you sign up for our free version,

and you see for yourself how it works and you're kind of you're kind of blown away you wake up at 2 30 the morning and like oh wait took a trade for me and it did what I physically cannot do because I can't stay awake for seven days in a row well and it solves a lot of the traditional issues with trading automation which is you have to give your custody of your funds over to people. We do not custody funds. We do not make trades for you. We do not aid and assist you in making trades.

We have software that will be the most powerful tool you've ever used to help you in your trading journey. And seeing is believing it, that's why we've made it free. If you sign up, we will spend hours on the phone with you, getting you set up and make sure you know how to use the tool. You'll have first in class customer service. We've been in the space for long enough to know that that's a huge deficiency.

And we're here to try to do our best to remedy it on our little front. So yeah, reach out to us. We'd love to have a conversation, love to get you set up, love to get you trading and using the tool at absolutely no cost. So you can kind of see why we're so passionate about about the future and what this means for retail investors. It's really something that only

institutions have had access to. And they've had access to it for decades. And it's part of what Dave said earlier about proprietary systems and software that don't speak well with one another. If a trading firm created an algo, it was created for their specific internal software. And it was very, very customized for that application. And it's not commercially available to everyone else. Those days are changing and we were pleased to be on the front end of it.

And one of the reasons why we like Dave to be on the front end of it. And one of the reasons why we like Dave so much is that he speaks our language. He understands this. He's been using automation for a decade plus, knows exactly what the benefits are. And it's fun to talk about all the benefits because it's a new age in trading for retail. Can I make a point how, even for me, how fun it is to see an alert in my email that you bought Bitcoin alert, buying it one on one. Actually one of the models actually had it sell at above 110 on a lighten up strategy,

which since we're now a thousand dollars below that, that's pretty good. People need to understand that it's like, I always joke, I think I told you guys this joke. I was at a conference once and we were describing algorithms. This is back in the old days before people ever used algorithms to trade or it was still whatever. And they said, imagine if you are on airplane and the captain goes over the loudspeaker and says, hello, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Captain Smith.

And I don't believe in advanced avionics because I know how to fly an airplane and I don't trust these computers. So sit back, relax and know that you're in good hands with 40 years of flight experience. You know, and I just how many people get up and leave the plane because of terror, you know, we rely upon avionics to keep us safe in the air. Well, the truth is, is advanced, you know, algorithmic trading is exactly what institutions now use for doing all their trading.

I mentioned earlier in the show, Michael Saylor does it. So why as an individual, would you want to be pushing the buttons yourself and making these determinations? It doesn't make sense. You instruct a machine to do it. That's the simple answer. That's why. And I think you combine these technologies and you had pointed out what you were involved in earlier and I'll give you a plug here because I think it's incredibly important. But every single

builder in the space is trying to accomplish solving a problem, right? Making it easier to scale into, you know, a treasury essentially, a BTC treasury. And so, you know, when you're talking about software and how it can help, Dave has got software that they've developed that allows you to put one order in and it will route it to the deepest liquidity pool across multiple exchanges.

Well, we're incredibly at ArchPublic fascinated with combining that technology with our technology for institutional treasury strategy purposes. But the point is that the market is changing because access to these types of tech stacks are now getting integrated at a platform level, at an exchange level. The exchanges have figured out that these tools are the most valuable tools to aid and assist their customers in making informed decisions and having informed strategies

that are executing on their behalf. And it's just a really exciting time to be in the market. And I don't think we would be getting the recognition and the customers that we are if we didn't have the regulatory headwinds going in our favor and we didn't have the crypto markets really pushing this innovation. Because it's this overarching theme of

it's time for retail to have a level playing field, right? It's time for retail to have the same access to the same financial markets, to the same tools, to the same accredited investor opportunities that used to be, you know, an invite-only club. And now you're seeing this kind of really take full and front and center stage because of the Bitcoin treasury attraction and what it means to the overarching economy. So exciting times, really, really pumped about being a part of it and getting to talk with smart guys like Dave.

It's really, it's a lot of fun. Andrew, did we lose you? No, I'm back. Just somebody pounded on my door. So that is it for today. Go to Archpublic.com and use our software for free. Thanks Dave for taking the time. Really robust discussion with Josh and Dave and Tillman. And Dave, at some point you're going to have to shave your head and grow a beard. And we'll see you later. Have a fantastic day.

See you guys. Be back.