The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Breaks $50K! | ERC404 Hype Explained | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Crypto Town Hall is a daily X Spaces hosted by Scott Melker, Ran Neuner & Mario Nawfal. Every day we discuss the latest news in crypto and bring the biggest names in the space to share their insight. ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. USE CODE ‘2MONTHSOFF’ WHEN VISITING MY LINK.  👉 https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/    ►► OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $10,000!  👉  https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL  - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets    Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor.  Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Trying to decide if I should bring Mario up or not. I think I'll bring him up. It seems right now I'm the only person on stage. Mario, what's going on? I'm right here, bro. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you today? You said you're sleep deprived. What's going on? Extremely sleep deprived. I don't know.

I think I'm just starting to get a normal sleep schedule, but it feels like I'm jet lagged. So instead of going to bed at 10 a.m. my time, I'm waking up at 10 a.m. my time. So I'm just getting used to that. How was your weekend? You were telling me about it. I find it's a pretty cool weekend.

It was my first weekend as a dance dad. Took my eight-year-old daughter to her first dance competition in Orlando. Ten minutes of it was great. The rest of it was relatively brutal, as you would expect. I saw the photos. Adorable, adorable, adorable. Yeah, they did really well. Very proud of her.

It was fun to watch. But four people stuffed in a hotel room, you know. You were a dancer, man. You're a dance competition guy. Yeah, bro. You got to take me out dancing one day. But you haven't even, you came,

you both came to Dubai and you're both, we don't get to see each other. I think Mr. Ran and David were meant to meet me and we miss each other. I think you were too late. He was too late. And then we didn't even bother. I had to play golf and your,

I had to play golf and your had to play golf. And your apartment is right above the golf course, so at least I could give you the finger from down. But Ryan was... Didn't you come to the Satoshi roundtable, by the way? That time that I was there was a year ago, so we weren't even actually working

together back then. And then I had the one time we were going to meet at the airport and I was on a layover, but I got my plane. I try to forget about that day. Why didn't you come this time around to Satoshi? Oh yeah, just had a few things to deal with. Yeah, honestly, it was the idea of dealing with family

stuff. Cool. Wow. ERC404, please tell us, Scott. I just see a bunch of people connecting and requesting. So is it, and Ram connecting. So just kind of hoping we can get everybody actually on stage here first and talk about it because I'm the last person who's going to break down the ERC 404 debate. Ram is exceptionally, I think up on this.

We have some speakers that are as well. There's a project called pandora it did a 12 000 percent uh pump in there since february i don't think it's a bad strategy to buy these projects because the first vintage of projects there's like buying the first nft collection they never ever are the ones that last so i think unless you can trade out of it really really really quickly i think it's a bad strategy to buy these collections i think you buy the picks and shovels you avoid the collections oh it's all right since you're maybe before getting into erc 404 um maybe a quick overview on the markets guys i haven't had a chance to look at them for the last 36 hours oh so you never

caught the crash? Why we crash? Everyone seems to be in a good mood, so I'm guessing there is no crash, because if there is a crash, I won't be complaining in the groups. No, there is no crash. I think that Bitcoin's had a great run.

Altcoins left to catch up. It's what I covered on my show today. I think that if Bitcoin carries on running, then altcoins need to get a massive, massive catch up, right? But the reality is that if you look at this Bitcoin price, we're now at the top end of the head and shoulders pattern, the inverse head and shoulders pattern, which played out. We're at the 2022 highs. We've just captured the 2022 highs and the 2024 highs. So this is like a very, very, very key level to break.

I don't know if Bitcoin can break this level very quickly. If it does, then what happens is, you know, we could probably go into, we could probably go into like a 50,000 plus. And then, you know, the headlines of 50,000 plus was the new ETFs in the market. I think that could give us a lot of momentum. You know, it's like, these buyers that are buying the ETF now or that would have accessed the ETF now, I don't think they've ever experienced

a real Bitcoin rally. They don't know how fast things start running. You start getting all the headlines, Bitcoin just broke 50,000, Bitcoin just broke 50,000. So I think we get some kind of run. I think if that happens

i think old coins have got a long way to go still to catch up to bitcoin so that's kind of like what i did the the etf numbers are looking good as well guys i'll show if you covered them in your show scott or ryan but let's look at our at our back channels the total net inflow of bitcoin spot ets was 541 million which has been been net inflows for seven consecutive days. That 449 million was February 9th. So it was three days ago. Yeah, it was a Friday. Yeah, they're absolutely crushing.

I bet BlackRock is at 4.28 billion market cap. Fidelity at 3.6. Actually, GBTC now at 22.8. So it actually rose a bit from what I'm seeing here. Bitwise, $883 million. ARK now over a billion. I mean, these are objectively a massive success at this point, both in a vacuum, I think, and compared to other ETFs. And what's interesting now is that we sort of had the argument at the beginning that it was outflows from GBTC that were probably the

washing machine back into BlackRock and Fidelity and the others. But now Grayscale on a daily volume basis, much, much smaller than both Fidelity and BlackRock. So this seems to be more organic inflows. And if you can see, you know, Dave Weisberger, I don't know if he's around, he was on my show this morning. Obviously, he owns CoinRoutes and watched very closely the ratio between spot and derivative trading. And this is a very, very heavily spot driven rally, even on this move all the way up from the mid 40s to almost 49 here. It's almost no liquidations. I mean, this is real spot buying. And presumably, that you know on behalf of etf all right anything to add there's i'm just looking at the news as well there's uh so uh i'm not sure if you can hear me or someone is either me or ronald cutting off but the new york attorney general has tripled us the s are you back go ahead but i was gonna say new york attorney general tripled estimated size of alleged alleged fraud in case against DCG. Not sure if you read that as well, Scott.

That was last week. I did a I based on our discussion last week, I don't know if you remember, where they said that the best return was actually to just hold Bitcoin. And then I think someone

was on the spaces and he said that none of the funds have actually outperformed Bitcoin. And then I think someone was on the spaces and he said that none of the fans have actually outperformed Bitcoin. It was Brian Estes. Yeah, Brian Estes. So I went and did the analysis actually because just to see what happened. And I think that he's half right.

So if you would have invested in Bitcoin any time from 2011 to 2018, then I'm going to concede that probably none of the funds, not none of the funds, but probably most of the funds haven't been able to outperform Bitcoin. And that is because in 2011,

if you would have invested in 2011 to today, you would have got 90,000 extra turn. In 2012, you would have got 9,000 extra turn. In 2012, you would have got 9,000 X return. In 2013, you would have got 2,350 X return. In 2014, 60 X return. 2015, you would have got 150 X return. In 2016, you would have got 110 X return. In 2017, you would have got a 50 X return.

In 2018, you got a 34 X return. But then it comes down a lot. And if you would have invested in 2019, you would have made a 12x return. In 2020, you would have made a 5x return. In 2021, you would have made a 1.4x return. 2022, a 1x return. And then a 2x return in 2023.

And we're obviously in 2024 at the moment so i will post this on my twitter in a few minutes just i only did it now and so the conclusion that i came to said that anybody that would have invested in bitcoin anytime before 2018 probably got in in the early days and anytime after 2018 it feels like like the extreme returns for Bitcoin are finished. Well, that's what the table is showing us. So it's very easy for someone who's been in this market since before 2017 to say the best strategy is just to hold Bitcoin. And if you look at it in the last five years, that wasn't the best strategy at all. I think, and I think you just made a very important point. And there's something that I was actually arguing with Mike McGlone sort of on my show this morning,

is that everybody makes these sort of blanket statements without attaching a timeframe to them. Because Mike made the point, he said, S&P is at all-time highs. Bitcoin is lagging massively because Bitcoin's all-time high was 69K and now we're at 49. And I said, well, that's just cherry picking from the deadest all-time high that Bitcoin ever had. If you go to the bottom of both of them, Bitcoin is wildly outperformed. And so I think it just sort of lends the idea that when we say things like, you would have done better in this or you would have done better in that or you should be in this it has to be attached to a time frame it didn't can't just be a sweeping sort of statement like that because you're absolutely the debate we had on

friday was uh from 2019 so rand i think rand what you should do in your show tomorrow is like get that clip get your team to get that clip from the space where you and him went back and forth and then break it down maybe in tomorrow's show if there's not much right it also matters yeah i think the debate was from 2019 yeah but it also matters what day you bought in 2019 and what altcoins you're in right so that you just can't make these sort of sweeping statements i mean there are things that went to effectively zero but yeah true true true but you could just get the you know top five top 10 vc funds and then use them as a benchmark um on that front and then what date just choose a fucking day i think it doesn't matter we'll average out the the period so now we have somebody actually explained what

erc 404 is rand you explained it obviously actually pretty well last week so before before you do i'm just going to mention one piece of news on that and then i'll shut up and listen and learn um scott i'll let you ask the questions and debate them. So CoinGecko put out an article. In the last 24 hours, the ERC-404 sector has seen a significant decline with the overall market cap falling by 30%. So Pandora has dropped, what, 15%? Defrogs, never heard of that. 22% rug, dropped 40%.

We deserve it it anyone that invested something called drug i'm sorry but don't be surprised um but it says erc 404 is an experimental standard on ethereum that mixes erc 20 and 721 and it is not yet part of the final theory improve ethereum improvement proposal standard so the the eip standard category. So that was put out yesterday by CoinGecko. But Ryan, you gave us a great overview last week. So maybe give that to the audience and panel. Just jump in. Robert, Jason, DB, Bilo, Huda, and Henry.

I've got a pretty full panel. A bunch of NFT. We know we're in a bull market, Scott. We've got a bunch of NFT bunch of ns nft we know we're in a bull market scott we've got a bunch of nft and what where are the people's faces that's good news i like when we have penguins on stage we've got naveen here uh but yes so maybe ryan you want to give us that overview about erc404 is a new token standard on ethereum what it does is it mixes a fungible token, which is a normal ERC20 token with a non-fungible token,

which is an NFT. If you think about an NFT as a photo of a punk or as a picture of a punk, imagine that every time you buy a punk, it comes with a normal token associated with it. And as soon as you start selling off parts of the normal token,

the punk, you could say, disappears. And as long as you can buy a full token, a punk will put itself together. So it's a new standard for NFTs, which allows you to subdivide NFTs and to trade and to almost, you know, to subdivide NFTs. And it's a relatively new token standard.

I think that's pretty much what it is. It allows people to subdivide NFTs, which creates a lot more use cases. We started speaking about the potential use cases last week on one of our spaces. A lot of people aped into some collections, Pandora, D-Frogs. I always say don't ape into the collections. If you can ape into a protocol, ape into a protocol. If you ape into the picks and shovels, you can ape into the picks and shovels. But, I mean, aping into collections, collections come and collections go.

And I'm not a big fan of trying to time these collections. I think with that i'm going to hand it back to scott well we got a few people raising their hand very quickly is it below or by low i'm sorry i don't mean to uh either one either one's good either one's good it's below but it's fine hey guys how's everybody doing thank you for inviting me up to speak Long time no see, FTX days. It's been good. Good, my good man. So, yeah, Ran's explanation, nice, simple, exactly what it is. One question that comes to mind for NFT collections, for me at least, is so you have a token and this comes with an NFT.

So what happens when you start to sell off that token is you lose the NFT, like Rand mentioned. But then if you go back and you own a full token, you get back an NFT, but it's not the same NFT you had. So it's a randomly generated NFT. So now I'm just wondering, where does the rarity come into place? And now is there an infinite collection of NFTs tied to this collection? And I find this becomes less appealing to collectors because if there is an infinite amount of NFTs that are randomly generated, one of the biggest things that most collectors, I would say, want is rarity.

So I'm not sure how that's handled. I think the 404 standard is good. I think it's going to be good for something like rwa where uh you know you can own uh an nft which represents let's say an apartment in new york and if you sell parts of it well you don't know that whole apartment but if you do have the whole token you own the whole apartment i could see that being useful but i'm not sure how it's going to do the nfc space quickly ran i just want to say really quickly, Bitcoin did just break $49,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think it's now trading at the highest price since January 22. So over two years. Yeah, we can talk about Bitcoin later if you guys want. We'd love to.

Yeah, sorry. I just thought that that was breaking enough. Go ahead. No, no, it's good. So let's say the following. Number one, I agree with you

very much on the collectibles. And I do think that it adds another dimension to collectibles, which is actually maybe even more fun than buying something with rare traits. And that is being able to, to spin up a new version of it with potentially more or different traits. So, you know, sometimes let me give you an example. You're looking at it as somebody who has the rare trait.

What happens if I buy a very generic CryptoPunk and what happens is, you know, it's got very generic features and all of a sudden what happens is now I've got a chance to unwind it and almost take a lucky draw for something better. So that's one thing of it. I think the other thing that we need to think about is something very different. I think all too often what we try and do is we try and take new technologies and try and force fit them into some paradigm that we already understand. So we already understand NFTs with different rarities and we're trying to take something that is an improvement on NFTs and say, well, how does this work with new rarities?

So I don't know exactly what the use cases are going to be, but I thought of similar use cases where you've got something like and I use the word something like special um uh let's call it shareholders with um similar agendas on a cap table which will then allow specific shares with voting pools to disintegrate and form new shares with new voting pools based on topics. So I don't know, I'll give you one example. If you have one share block for DEI voters and then all of a sudden that one disintegrates and becomes a different kind of share pool. So I think, and I don't know exactly how that would work.

I mean, I don't know what the use cases are going to be. I'm just saying, I think the biggest mistake that we can do is say, oh, we understand how this tech works and we understand how this new tech will fit without actually trying to understand that maybe what's being created here is a completely, completely, completely new use case. Just quickly, Ryan, your audio before we go to the panel, we'll go to Jason and Huda and DB. Your audio is not the best. I'm not sure if you can improve it. Go ahead, Jason. Yeah, I just want to make sure, you know, Tract has been requesting to speak as well. He's actually one of the speakers that will be invited.

Yeah, he's up now. Okay, cool. So I have a different perspective on things because um i understand that we can all define what you know 404 is and what it does that to me is probably um more interesting in the sense that i'm i'm investing a lot more in the orno space uh and for those who are not familiar with the orno space i think a big part of uh why 404 is so popular today is because of Ornos in general. If you look at Ornos today, inscriptions have been by far the most popular thing that's happened to Bitcoin in the last two years. Other than price, of course, right? But in terms of actual innovation, Ram mentioned about building a protocol.

He likes investing in protocols. There's a bunch of protocols that's being built on Bitcoin today. There's the Solana Bitcoin, there's Dogecoin Bitcoin, there's Ethereum Bitcoin, all built around this Orinose protocol. And one of the things that's really, really interesting about this and how this is correlated to 404 is that it shares the same characteristic, which is you can either be a fungible token or it can be a non fungible token. So for example, if, if let's say, for example, I asked and this is very, very obvious.

If I asked the Asian community, what's your favorite inscription? They're going to, they're going to give me a bunch of shit coin. They're going to be like, you know, it's going to be, it's going to be like saying Turk is going to be like animal tokens. And these are all right responses. They're all inscriptions. And but then they're treated like fungible tokens, and they're traded on a lot of changes. But as the same question to a Western community, what is your favorite conscription, they'll give me a bunch of digital art.

And so what I've learned from this is that 404 became really, really popular, not because of the innovation itself, because this is basically from Orinose, from Bitcoin, but because the timing was incredible. People wanted to find innovation in Ethereum, but they couldn't find something that they try to... They have something called e-scription, which is basically to try to they have something called each is description which is basically they try to do the same thing with inscriptions but on ethereum that kind of worked but it wasn't really really hot compared to like bitcoin like bitcoin had um you know some of the

recent tokens on or nodes are all like well over a billion dollar market cap um and i'm i think what what's interesting about 404 is that they pick up this narrative and like, hey, we could become like the next Ordi or like the next Sat or the next Rat. But they don't really define it in a way that kind of follows the Ethereum standard, which is anyone who kind of like been following with Ethereum, the history of Ethereum, there's so many standards out there. It's incredibly hard to push standards i've personally been looking into investing in something called 6551 which is more like a bundler where you can have an nft that launches them uh urc20 tokens and even that is incredibly hard to sell in the market um they have way they have a

lot more vcs backing it a lot more projects building on it and it's been for years and it's still kind of like just halfway there and so um the fact that like 404 didn't go with the traditional route of like being embedded by ethereum foundation and all that kind of shows that they're trying to build hype right just this is why like i think like you know what web 12x and then it's like down like you know 30 and for people who've been trading inscriptions like 12x is nothing like you know like a couple of months ago if you're trading any inscription you would have made 20x easily um so it's like it's like again it's following the narrative i think it's just an amplified version of uh of what what's have happened in bitcoin inscriptions but i

i think the best person here to kind of share about this is the founder the founder of a national protocol that's building on bitcoin which is uh benny who he goes by the name track track you're there hey everyone how are you doing good man yeah cool yeah i'm i'm to be honest i i just got the news about BSC 404 just recently and I wanted to add to what Jason said. I'm under the impression, strongly under the impression, and that kind of gave me some sort of chills because I literally came from the ETH space, to be honest, really kind of, let's say, disappointed of the lack of innovations that happened, especially for the NFT craze back then, because everything was about PFPs, right? Just PFPs, at least for the vast majority of what has been released.

And it's really cool to see uh that there are people coming out and say you know what um i have this great idea the timing is right uh now uh let's let's do that because back then there were similar solutions um for for that already i was among like one of those right who did um literal nft um fractionalization and stuff like that but But the time wasn't right. And I have the strong feeling that because of all the innovation that happened, especially in the last 12 months, that is kind of bleeding into

other communities, other chains, right? And not caring about that much anymore about do I really need to have a confirmed EIP ah yeah do do i really need to um have an um uh confirmed um uh eip and uh before i can successful with that no just you know let's just try it out experiment with that solve problems right and it's

really cool to see that this is actually happening uh outside of of the bitcoin box of the ordinal's box right it's really cool to attract what problems but check check just guys what what of the Bitcoin box, of the ordnance box. What problem is ERC-404 fixing? Where are the use cases beyond just projects pumping because it's like the new cool, sexy thing? Well, I was developing a few months ago, I was developing and creating my protocol for Bitcoin. And I was more looking at that approach that ERP 4.4 is approaching, namely the fractionalization.

So it's a lot from my point of view, it's a lot about efficiency, right? So when you and and additions especially right and and use cases utility um so um i believe um that this this opens the door basically to to go beyond you know like like collectibles right but but rather about sharing assets um uh you know i don't i don't i i look i i just don't maybe it's just me i just don't get the actual use case i get hey it was fractionalized yeah like you said you're getting you fractionalize an nft now it's tokenized you own the token you're on the nft but if you own half a token and then you sell it you get another random nft maybe huda if you could jump in and sorry

interrupted track because i see a lot of hands up that's the reason i jumped in huda and henry beyond pfps but what can you just tell us why does erc 404 matter it's a good question if it doesn't matter that's fine i don't mind if it doesn't matter i don't mind it's just the next hype thing that people can make whatever x is on, the audience, I'm sure, will be happy making money without actual use cases. We're in crypto. But is there use cases beyond that? I think there will be. Right now, I look at it as another tool in the tool belt. So while it's not necessarily an innovation, it is an iteration. It is getting you quicker liquidity. I do think it adds some fun to the trait game. And I mean, maybe there is some actual building you can do there, building access and perks around specific traits. And then all of a sudden you can reroll that collection.

Maybe you can roll yourself into one. I don't think that's a game changer, though. Maybe in the hands of artists, we actually see this push a little further. I'd love to see what someone like Jack Butcher could do with it. So, again, I think we need to think of this you know maybe smaller terms at least for right now it is very new and it doesn't do again anything that is bringing you can you okay can you exactly can you because the whole fractionalization of a punk has existed for a while we're looking at doing it a while ago so i just don't get what this so can you just explain

to me again i know ryan's already explained it and my coffee just kicked in so i'm sleep deprived with coffee now so if you can explain to me again for new audience members how does it work how does the token and the energy how do they relate to each other what happens when you buy a full token what happens when you sell half of that token what happens when you sell the entire token yeah yeah and while i'm not a dev i can give you like the tldr on it but basically you're minting your ERC-404. It is giving you an ERC-20, which is a crypto, right? It's also giving you an ERC-721, so you're getting an NFT. So just for the audience, ERC-20 is just a fungible token, any fungible token, any project

token, and ERC-721 is an NFT. So you get both when you mint it on the ERC-404. When you mint an NFT nft get both the token and the nft yeah that is my understanding but where it's interesting you sell that crypto right the fungible token your nft goes bye-bye right that gets sent to the burn address i'm assuming here you go buy a full token you go buy that crypto all of a sudden you have a newly minted nft so like that pandora collection you mentioned the supply of that collection, whether it started at 10K or whatever, it's up to almost 30K now. So we're just getting NFTs re-rolled and re-rolled and re-rolled,

which is super, super interesting. I don't get it, but this is weird because, so does that mean, I'm just trying to, does that mean the collection could will it continue increasing yes yeah i mean as of right now these collections have no cap on it i'm sure somebody could build that in but these are infinite supply collections yes this is making my brain hurt mario now think of this there has to be a cap on it because they are linked to a set number of the crypto, right? So maybe there's only 10,000 that exist at once. Yeah, exactly. I was trying to see. Yeah, like DB crypto, how could there be no cap on it? So if I sell the token, the NFT gets burnt.

But then if I buy the token, I get a newly minted NFT. So it's equally, the number shouldn't be infinite, no? Yeah, like you said, there is a cap. I believe it's tied to the the token just db yeah all right your mic isn't working henry yeah i could hear him maybe okay i can't hear him but i need to hear him because i asked the question let me bring it down henry you take this one i'll bring db crypto back up because i couldn't hear him yeah um db i'm just saying through an invite yeah can you answer that no you know what probably potentially not as good as db can uh i believe that it is linked to a map a maximum quantity of nfts but i think because it can be re-rolled multiple times that that's where the collection size can increase somebody can correct me if i'm

wrong exactly also mario can i in another point when you finish yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, DB. Yeah, I heard part of what Henry was saying. And yeah, he's correct that there is a limit, but token IDs can also be the same. And I believe it was, I forget who was saying it, but the Pandora launched with 10,000 token IDs, and there's already over 30,000 and it removes the rarity factor which is a kind of an issue i ran mentioned something about rarity playing different role in the future but this is one of the the issues that's already been found with it and to be honest like he said it's it's a very experimental can i can you be sorry can i can i ask you sorry if it's a dumb question but can i ask you for if there is if every time you sell a token the nft or part of a token the nft gets burnt but then when you get the token again you get a newly minted nft so then the number should be the

same because you burnt one but then you got one so it's still one net net how is the collection increasing in size i understand it's a newly mint minted NFT, but the other one got burned. The other one cannot be retrieved anymore. Yeah, the ERC-404, that number is still the same, but the token ID is what's different. The NFT is different. And this is, again, super experimental. I've already seen half a dozen different variations of this launched

in just the past 48 hours. And I expect to see many more teams working on it. And it's actually kind of odd to see... Has there been... Okay, so... This early on before hitting EIP stage. Yeah, so is there any use case that makes sense? At this point, it's basically the fractionalization of it,

which we've discussed. Which has existed before. It does, but the existing fractionalization of NFTs was a mess, a complete nightmare. And it was functional as an ERC-20, basically, and not as liquid as the the current 404 standard which is the the why isn't it why is it not as liquid you mean not as many people speculating in there no meaning you couldn't take it to open c and sell it because it wasn't uh it wasn't treated as both a token and an nft

mario can i can i make a point on on that because because i think i agree with you a bit and and you can see this is so new that a lot of us are just like well what's the point i kind of yeah scott i can see i can see i can see scott just went quiet he's like i'm not i'm not even gonna do this mario because i this is because it's so dumb and it's giving me a fucking nightmare. By the way, I completely agree with you because this is what sometimes sucks, but is sometimes necessary in

Web3. It's like you get this new protocol, you have this token that comes out, and you've got media doing all the work. Henry, Scott, ask him this question. Did you call CryptoKitties dumb when they came out? Be honest.

I don't even think I knew about CryptoKitties when they came out. Hey, Mario. No, I will say this. Mario, I agree that we need to move fast and break things and try new stuff. I just think that it's utterly avoidable for anyone listening to this call until four years from now and you prove it to me that it

matters. Yeah. Fractionalization exists. I disagree that fractionalization is funky or clunky. It exists. It's efficient. You have flooring protocol within cyber Kongs. One of our community members created WGK, which is a very liquid ERC 20 token, uh, which represents a Genesis Kong. So the, the standards exists. I don't think this really solves anything right now. Maybe somebody can do something cool with it in the future. Uh, but there actually is track had made a point and he said, there hasn't been innovation, uh, on, uh, on Ethereum. And I would argue to say, well, maybe it didn't hit the same hype cycle, but there are lots of projects that are building. There are standards that have come out like the

ERC-721X that I guarantee most people aren't familiar with. It's two-factor authentication on-chain. People don't know about it because it doesn't hit the right influencers. But at the end of the day, there is progress. May I say something about that maybe um the the um the thing here is at least at the minimum at the minimum utility you could say you know what you can use existing uh esc um 20 infrastructure to trade nfts like like like like literally like the the the like an mvp like the like the the most atomic and basic thing. You can't, but you can. So you could basically use Uniswap, right,

to trade actual NFTs using the EC20 infrastructure. And then, of course, from that, there can be a plethora of utility and use cases deriving, right? But as the base of things, to make it understandable, what this solves is basically that. Because if you're trading ESC 721s, ESC 1155s, you're basically dependent on the usual quote-unquote suspects, right, OpenSea and whatnot, right? And now you can basically use any other ESC infrastructure to do that, right?

So then... Go ahead, Jed. Let me go to Naveen as well. She's been waiting for a while. Naveen, go ahead. Yeah, if you just think about that, right? So that's something... Naveen, go ahead. Yeah, so can you hear me?

Can you hear me? Hello, hello. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear. I can hear. It's a glitch again. Let me bring you down. I think track dropped as well.

I mean, I just brought you down, brought you up. Joe, what do you think of ERC-404? You probably go into it and now you're going to tell me you already own a bunch of whatever that one project we're talking about all right can you hear me now pandora pandora uh yeah go ahead um yeah so i think um i think we're kind of looking at this a little myopically to be honest so i actually think that the concept of 404 kind of introduces like new types of collecting behavior like at the end of the day i think there's like the financialization of all this stuff and you know we tend to focus on that a lot but at the end of the day i think one of the coolest things about nfts broadly is just you know new forms of collecting and enabling new forms of collecting behavior so the way i see it

is if um if someone creates like a 404 collection and say, you need to have a thousand tokens in order to have, you know, like a minted NFT, that's aspirational. Like that's like a really cool concept for someone who's like new coming in. Let's pretend like it's something that people actually, actually want some sort of like digital, you know, collectible. It could be some sort of trading card, in-game asset, you know, whatever the hell it is. And now, you know, that I need a thousand in order to get like base rarity. And then, you know, you can imagine a world where it's like, okay, well, you need to have 2,000 to have two of the NFTs, and then you could attest ownership to those two NFTs to create a more rare thing.

So you can imagine at the end of the day, as you know, a third of humans on Earth like to collect something, like one thing or another. And the way that collecting is done, you know, in like traditional world is very, you know, it's very like tried five, very old, you know, like moving things around is like a pain in the ass. But I think about my kids, like, you know, I have three young kids, I have an eight year old, an 11 year old and a 13 year old. And I think about their collecting behavior on, you know, platforms like roblox or minecraft or whatever it is and i think about the future of of standards like 404 or emerging standards like 404 where it's like you know my youngest son's like oh dad you know i just need to have a thousand of this and then i get the magical key and it's like oh fuck that's cool like that's something that's like interesting so i think i think the problem is like again where we tend to be very myopic. And then you have all

these competing voices where it's like, well, it's not really a standard. It's like, well, dude, what the fuck is a real standard? These are permissionless systems. You can have Vitalik bless it or not. It's irrelevant. It's like a permissionless thing. That's what makes it cool. That's part of what makes any of these protocols interesting is that they are permissionless. And then you have competing voices from different protocols like, oh, I want to see the same thing on Bitcoin. I want to see the same thing on Solana. At the end of the day, all I really care about is does it enable a new type of behavior or something that people already have? People are already aspirational. It's like, okay, if I collect 10 of these things, that puts me in a different level as a collector than someone else who only has five of those things.

And 404 essentially formalizes that. It's a better way, George. It seems like a better way to fractionalize NFTs. It goes further than that, Mario. I don't know if you know, but I helped launch Tokyo on AVAX, which is the leading NFT collection there. More trading volume than Azuki in a really short period. And the reason why we were looking at the 721 was because we kind of created the NFT collection like a think tank. And we were licensing the idea that came from the think tank and paying the holders royalties for ideas that

we actually launched. And we wanted to tie that in to the actual NFT. And then we thought, okay, you can tie a lot more things like proof of presence. So prove that you were in the think tank inside the NFT. 404 just takes it another step further where you can kind of mix the traditional standard with that with the 721, which makes things a lot easier. Plus, you can split up the contract. There's use cases that are going to come from it. Of course, right now, I believe it's hyped. We need to start to see how people actually execute on it beyond just fractionalization. That's the easy one. But there's other ways, like the way I just told you now of tying in a contract, a royalty contract into the NFT, where you can actually see the contract and sell the contract when you sell the NFT along with it.

So there's going to be more use cases. I heard an old use case. I think Rand was part of the conversation where you could tie it into SaaS companies where it's actually ownership of the software and you sell the ownership of your software with that nft that would also require a contract there's there's just a lot more things that can be done with it and i i think it needs to evolve beyond i think we haven't we all agree there i think we i think what happens is we've created a new technology but we haven't given enough time for people to understand how this new technology is going to work we can we can off the top of our heads imagine one or two small applications but i think you think about like a year from now two years from now when some of the smartest minds in the

space have had time to work out how to fix real problems in finance and that's when we're going to get it i think the downside here is as investors you can't invest into the new technology so like you can buy collections but the truth is pfp collections honestly like that's that's a game and that's not really what i'm looking to invest in i'm looking to invest in protocols that will use this technology to change the world um and i think that that's the part where where where i'm looking for entries so i think that that's still months and months and months away but um yeah i think that that's the part where I'm looking for entries. So I think that that's still months and months and months away. But yeah, I think that that's what I'm looking for. Yeah, the framework for innovation is there.

So just two seconds. So essentially, Ryan, you made a really good point. The reason that you have all these collections, like ERC-404 as a technology makes a lot of sense, but us in crypto, we just got to find a way to make money off it. And since you cannot invest in ERC-404 as a protocol, you just get these projects launching on it with some dumb use cases, and they pump because the technology makes a lot of sense,

even though those projects make no sense so so it's like we're trying to find a way to squeeze money out of every single innovation that comes out um and and this is just another example of that would you agree joe yeah i mean i think ran summed it up nicely you can't with the framework is there for innovation but the innovation isn't there so you can't invest in a framework you can't with the framework is there for innovation, but the innovation isn't there. So you can't invest in a framework. You can only invest in the innovation. Um, and people are just,

exactly. And there's no innovation. There's no, there's no innovation there. So we just get a bunch of PFPs launching on there. Uh, it's, it's,

uh, it's the same, same, uh, same story. Guys, Bitcoin is almost 50 K. Holy shit.

Really? Yeah. What's it? that's got uh last i checked it was 49.7 i can step in front of my screen but 49.942 49 922. it's there so would you someone oh just hold on just hit 50k it broke a major it broke a major fibonacci so it's uh it looks like we're going into a new channel someone in our team in a in the back channels the team wrote uh as you guys were doing the space my team's like guys uh bitcoin breaks 50k um altcoins will follow. We'll get altcoin season and they'll start blowing up as well. Again, I'm the worst at speculating these things. Just listen to my share.

I mean, that's the classic cycle. You know, Bitcoin makes its move. It chills. Yeah. Yeah. Bitcoin will go up. Chill. And then the liquidity will flow right into altcoins. It's at 50,000.

49,999 right now by what I'm seeing. Which is? 0.99. Literally, my screen said 49,999.9. Which exchange are you looking at, Scott? Coinbase. I'm looking at trading you in a set 50,800. But then you're looking at it.

Oh, no. Hold on. My future is on some exchange. You must be looking at it in some other currency for us. Yeah, yeah. Hold on. No, I'm looking at Binance to true USD. I don't know why it came up as true USD. Let me get...

That's just in Sun pricing. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I don't know why it came up as true. Yeah, okay. Look, I don't have the chat open. I mean, we can pretty much say it's 50,000. Can we please carry on with the conversation?

You guys are... No, I want to move on. I want to move away. I want to move away from the ERC-404. They were coming that well. I was going to do a market update. What you'd see, my question would be, unless you want to go back to the ERC-404, because we've just discussed it pretty well. We know what the tech is. Mario, can I make... We know a bunch of PFPs are going to do a market update. What you'd see, my question would be, unless you want to go back to ERC-404,

because we've just discussed it pretty well. We know what the tech is. Mario, can I make... We know a bunch of PFPs are going to... Could I make one more point about ERC-404? Okay. Yes. There is actually an exploit in the ERC-404,

and I've heard really nobody talking about this, but a highly, highly regarded Ethereum dev, this is a guy who you want his stamp of approval on your token standard, on your contract. His name is OX Quit. He works for Yuga Labs at this point now. There is an exploit in the ERC-404 that actually lets you steal someone's NFT. So in his words, it's not a maybe, it's not an if. He said he fully expects that to happen. I'm worried about people's Pandora bags here. So OX quit and he's got a like kind of a dream team they assembled just over the weekend.

They're creating a new standard called the DN404. So I want to put that out there. You guys got to look into that. They're not doing a project. They're just releasing the code. But I think the ERC404 is not the standard that's going to move forward. I kind of think it's going to be their DN4044. i can send you that twink of that tweet if somebody wants to pin that yeah you can put it at the top if you like i just did it now but just just right right on your on your video talking

about what happens when we hit 50k um so what do you expect to see and what do you think bitcoin do in the next few weeks i think two things happen when we hit 50k one is i think there's going to be a lot of talk about Bitcoin. Bitcoin breaks 50k. And then you can already see the mainstream media this morning started covering the Bitcoin run and the Bitcoin main stories on CNBC.

I spent some time with the mainstream media in my youth. I know that the mainstream media are late because they wait for moves before they announce the headlines and then they catch the headlines. And I know that the mainstream media are late because they wait for moves before they announce the headlines. And then they catch the headlines. And the headlines usually happen once in finance.

The headlines usually happen once the move has already happened. And so I guess that what's going to start happening is we will get a lot of news headlines around Bitcoin Breaks 50K. Now, the thing is, when that happens, I think a lot of these boomers who watch traditional media

and are usually trad-fi people will start to ape into the Bitcoin ETF because they haven't been able to up until now, and now they will. So I think it'd actually be an accelerated rally, right? I think once we break 50K, we'd actually be an accelerated rally right i think the the the once we break 50k we actually could get an accelerated rally the second thing is that i think altcoins are going to have a massive catch-up and i think i think basically we're getting into the next phase of

the bull market where we get accelerated rallies in bitcoin and then we get altcoin rallies so that's that's pretty much what my thesis was during my search. I just didn't think it would happen so quickly because I thought that we'd need – I didn't think we'd break that $48,000 very quickly, but it seems like we did. Look at dominance, Ran. Dominance has been spiking up the last couple of days, which is where a lot of this is coming from. Yeah. I mean, dominance has been spiking up because Bitcoin has been going up and alt

coins haven't been going up accordingly, but we know that dominance is going to catch up. It happens every single bull market. It's the same thing. It's you get the Bitcoin pump, the dominance spikes and then bang, we go back down. I mean,

it's pretty much inevitable now as a betting man, what I've done is all my chips are on all the altcoins and I'm just waiting patiently. Yeah, there are worse things than altcoins just trading sideways against the dollar, which is all that's happening here with Bitcoin dominance rising. It's not like altcoins are dumping. They are if you're trading on Bitcoin pairs but otherwise just sit here and wait yeah also don't forget like the fact that the fact that the dominance is rising means that the total bitcoin market is rising quicker than the top 100 altcoins but the actual individual prices of the altcoins

are running much more than the amount i mean i don't have any like any of my major altcoins that have moved uh like that haven't moved as much as Bitcoin today. You know what I mean? Yeah, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. I mean, Bitcoin is only up 3.6%. You've got Beam up 17%. You've got Mina, which I spoke about on my show today, up 11%.

Immutable X up 8.5%, 8%. Like even the smallest altcoins, Arbitrum's up 3%, which is more or less less where bitcoin's up today like most of the major altcoins are up the same amount as bitcoin i'm going to give a plug to one of our products here um banter bubbles actually shows you bubbles with the size of the price moves and like i'm looking at the price moves now it's banterbubbles.com it's also available on on the App Store. The new one is awesome, by the way. It looks great. It's fast. Yeah, it's very cool,

the new one. Thanks, Scott. But if you look at the bubbles, like Bitcoin is one of the smallest bubbles today. Beam is the biggest. Optimism is the second. Or Mina is the second biggest.

Then Stacks. Then Optimism. So, I mean, yeah, you could say, oh, wow, Bitcoin's running and Dumbbell's running. Yeah, but most altcoins have got bigger bubbles

than Bitcoin today. Mario, you were about to jump in. Yeah, Naveen. Sorry, my raised hand is a legacy raised hand. We've moved on now

and now we're talking about macro market shit. And all I have to say about macro market stuff is I think Bitcoin goes way higher. I think everyone probably agrees with that over short to medium term. I think on the – How long – yeah, sorry, do I finish?

I have a question afterwards for Ron and Scott about how long is for an all-time high. Finish off. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no no no problem and then on the alt side of the fence you know i think that um the market is essentially trying to find um you know like what are the sustainable narratives you know so every every cycle we have different metas and the metas uh some metas like really take off and become a huge deal, and others kind of peter out. And so where I think we are is you have a lot of interesting sort of Ethereum-oriented metas around L2s and all of that.

Things like Farcaster and whatever else is going on in the Ethereum universe. You have interesting metas in the Solana universe. You have all kinds of interesting metas around security model, things like Eigenlayer and restaking and all these sorts of things. And then I think you also have, believe it or not, like re-emergent proof-of-work metas that are also very interesting because I think there's lots of people in the community who have a lot of concern about proof-of-stake.

So it's going to be very interesting to see this cycle, like what are the metas and narratives that actually take hold as it relates to alts um and that it's gonna be fascinating as hell so that's my commentary on the market so so ryan scott when do you think we'll hit new all-time highs i'd still be surprised if that happened any time in the near to midterm. Honestly, I think that that should be a fall, maybe post having six to eight months, but nothing would surprise me at this point. Honestly, it's not a prediction. The CTFs have sort of changed the game,

but I don't see a new all-time high coming quite yet. Ryan? Cool, great feedback. I think this is it Joe any final thoughts on this 57.5 I think is the next one if you look at the channel

you and Ryan were very insightful appreciate it this is a great way to end the show Ryan you unmuted anything to add cool I agree with Ryan I agree with Ryan for sure me too Ran, you unmuted. Anything to add? Cool.

I agree with Ran. Check out Bouncy Bubbles. I agree with Ran, for sure. Me too. Well, I think Ran just said, check out Bouncy Bubbles. It will hit all-time highs next week. Check out Bouncy Bubbles. This is what Ran just said.

Why didn't you let me talk? Why didn't you let me talk? Can you guys hear me? Yeah, you do. Yes. Now you can hear me. Okay. I don't know why you wouldn't let me talk.

What was the question, sir? New all-time highs. Last question for the show. Fuck, I can't hear again. New all-time... Tell him, Scott, maybe he can hear you. He wants to know when do you think we'll hit a new all-time high, Ryan. I think before the end of the year.

And ask him, how cool is Banter Bubbles? Mario would like me to ask you, how cool are Banter Bubbles and why? Are you actually being serious? Yeah, Mario is directing questions to me to direct to you because apparently you can't hear him. But it's, yeah. I can't hear him. Go and download the app Bantam Bubbles

or go and look it up on bantambubbles.com. I think it's one of the most powerful training. I thought Mario was about to do the old, but I realized he doesn't have control. I thought he was going to do the thing we used to do at the beginning of the show where you say a question and then you rub Paul the person, but he doesn't have control to end the spaces. But those were the days.

Those were the days. Yeah, that rant just gives us an attitude I'm only hearing you is that like what I should say? Honestly it's probably better for your life I would say that if you went to a psychiatrist like three out of four of them would say that's good for you that's your end of the show

thanks everyone I appreciate it bye guys that's it you can end the show please