The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin DOUBLED The Last Time Rates Got This High | Mark Yusko

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Bitcoin faces another macro test as analysts warn the 10-year Treasury yield could reach 6%, although rising debt concerns could strengthen Bitcoin’s long-term case. We also cover Goldman bringing its $100B Treasury fund into crypto infrastructure, the debate over Tether’s role in Iran, Anthropic’s IPO disclosures around AI risks, and Coinbase completing its regulated U.S. derivatives stack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Bitcoin doubled the last time. rates got this high. Many people thinking that 6% is inevitable and maybe even higher, but they're wrong if they think that that is necessarily bad for Bitcoin based on previous evidence. We're going to talk about that and everything else happening in the news today with Tillman, Andrew, and probably maybe sort of fighting chance, Mark Hughesgo. But if he does show up, he'll be wearing either roller coaster socks or orange pants.

I'm sure he'll be here soon. Let's go. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the show. Happy Tuesday, I know that, like me, this is your favorite day. I'm going to be honest, your favorite day used to be Monday, but it seems like you guys are very angry about Mondays. Very, very angry people. I don't think there was one happy comment yesterday in the show. And given, McGlone is a bit ornery, and he was, I think, angering you guys a little bit.

but to be fair, not only did he say Bitcoin was going to $10,000, but I think he said gold was going to like, I don't know, $2,000, something like that. So he's consistent. I think it was $3,000. He said that Bitcoin's glory days are over, though, if you guys missed it, which was hell of a quote. And then I made an AI image at the time of him singing glory days as Bruce Springsteen, because I'm a serious person. Let's get Tillman and Andrew up here.

And, oh, I'm trying to click Mark on, but he's not there. He's out there. Good morning, gentlemen. Good morning. By the way, I don't radically disagree with McClone. I mean, I disagree with about 90% of what he says, but it depends on how he defines glory days, right? You know, I said last week, we're not going to have a 250% up year in the next three to five years. I really don't believe that.

But if we have on average 40 to 45% years over the next three to four years, that means, were significantly above all-time highs. And so, yeah, he's not completely and utterly wrong. He's just nearly utterly wrong. You know what the best part about this image is? His band is in the audience. And the audience is behind him. Yeah.

Which I didn't realize when I whipped this up in real time. Yeah, glory days are over. Yeah, it is, it is, again, And McClone is a voice that I think is reasonable on your show, and people can get angry about that. But at the same time, you know, guy was kind of right about gold. You know, he's got some interesting thoughts on copper, was fairly right on commodities and hard assets. So, yeah, I think he's an important voice. Certainly he's going to piss off, you know, Bitcoin Maxis.

But what doesn't piss off Bitcoin Maxis? Someone was like, remember when CNN used to always? always have like one token Republican on and then everybody would just scream at them. I think you can do that with Mark here right now if we want to this entire show. Yeah, I did not get the memo for the black shirt. So I apologize for lighting things up. Orange pants. Of course I have orange pants.

Yes, all right. All right. There we go. And the wrestling, silly, fully soft game. And the racing shoes. So the question is, what car did you drive to work today with those racing shoes? I know what's going on there, Mark. You know, I'm actually pretty boring.

I drive a Kia Nero wave, EV. But I did just get my son's about to turn 16, so we did just get him a, Ferrari, 2020 Bronco, and it is orange. Oh, good. Every car should be orange. Okay. So listen, the headline here, let's talk about. Annalicy 10-year treasury yield hitting 6%.

Bitcoin Bulls shouldn't panic. And the premise behind that, actually, it's from Marcus Thielen, who's obvious on this show quite often, is that we've seen this movie before that since the end of 2023, the 10-year yield has risen 135 basis points, and Bitcoin has still roughly doubled to 86,000, even not accounting for the pump to 126. So maybe all rate rises are not created equal and maybe we should just calm down.

Mark, your thoughts first. Well, I mean, I just, I know it's click bait. You got to get people to click your story. You don't panic. There's no implication there in the headline of, you know, well, what does a rising rate environment actually mean? Is it restrictive? You know, people think, oh, if they lower rates, that's printing money. If they raise rates, it's not.

It's not actually how it works. If the Treasury is buying back bonds in size, that is essentially printing money. I mean, it's creating money out of thin air to buy back the obligations that you issued before. And so I think... The bottom line is you've got to look at total liquidity and you have to look at global liquidity. China is actually running the printing press much, much faster than anybody else. And global liquidity today, every day, makes new highs. So the idea that, well, restricted, that higher rates are bad for Bitcoin just doesn't make any sense to me.

higher rates, interestingly, are a sign of economic strength. Low rates are a sign of economic weakness. In a world of abundance and economic strength, I'm not sure I buy completely that we're there. But if we were there, that's actually, again, better for any store of value because in that environment, governments are going to print lots and lots and lots of money. So yeah, I mean, lowering rates usually comes when things break. Of course.

Yeah, I mean, it's the last ditch effort to try to save. We live in a stranger things upside down where we cheer for things to break so that they can print money so their assets can go up. But that doesn't mean that it's actually a side of a healthy economy, to your point. Kind of backwards, kind of backwards. Tell them and Andrew. Yeah, I think he's spot on. I think Mark's hit the nail on the head. I think that we are about to print an exorbitant amount of money.

And I think AI deserves it, quite frankly. If you look at, I compare it and I've been giving the analogy to the federal highway system, we invested as Americans in that. And it not only increased and expanded our economy, but it attracted more people to come into our economy and thus expanding it even more. We have a new network, a new set of highways that has to be built. And it's AI driven. And we are the leader. We can keep the lead.

We can maintain a vehicle. Yeah. I mean, that's American. I love the American exceptionalism. I love it. I love it. I mean, China has 96% of AI citations. But keep going.

Keep going. Well, here would be my only point about it. Consumerism drives everything at the end of the day. And we are the largest consuming economy by a long shot. And so we are the holy grail in terms of the service. of the AI that's built and how it's monetized. And we will dictate how it's monetized. And I, you know, when I start, I got invited to use Grochbot pretty early.

And right when I touched it, I said there'll be 100 million users on this in six months. Because it's that game changing. And it's not because it's able to do things better necessarily than some of the other models. It's because of user interface. And it's because of user experience. And it's because it's catering to the people with a very, solid marketing campaign and then it performs on what it markets to you that it can perform on. And so I just think from an innovative perspective, the greatest minds that have ever been from,

innovators have come from the U.S. and or have immigrated here, oddly enough. And I think we've got some of that magic that will play out very, very nicely for us across some of the social media networks and how the connectivity globally across the new banking system gets unveiled and, you know, unrolled or rolled out. But I just think that Elon, and I think that what we have in front of us, deserves an endless amount of printing is, I guess, the bottom line, because it's that impactful. And we have, it's a race that we have to try to win. And even if we don't win it, to your point, there's going to be really exceptional characters that support it at various legs of the journey. And no different than Bitcoin. I mean, 90,

plus percent of ASICs came out of China for a very long time, you know, and they played a really meaningful role. Yeah, and it's down to only 90 now. So, yeah, we're making strides. But, I love, I love your point in that it's it's about the evolution of the UI, UX, and just getting people to use the tools. The point that I harp on the most is this isn't zero sum. So I appreciate the propaganda out there that we have to win.

We have to beat China. It's an expanding pie. And the big play, if you ask me, is if we could ditch the 30-year-old mentality about made in China and go to the next 30-year play, which is made for China. From 1990 to 2020, China had a 30-year plan called the harmonious rise. They wanted to move from essentially a poverty-stricken state to a moderately prosperous socialism society. That was their goal. Not very threatening, you know, harmonious rise, right? And they, They took 700 million people out of poverty into the middle class.

From 2020 to 2050, they have a 30-year plan to become a prosperous socialism society. Translation superpower. So if you think about it, yeah, 20 years ago, everything you bought said made in China, of course, great. But that was then. Now they will have 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. the largest consumptive force in the world. We do have it today, no question.

But the middle class in China is bigger than the U.S. and Europe combined. Their millennial group is four times bigger than ours. If we talk about all these millennials and how they're going to move the economy in 20 years, when they're old enough to have, you know, some wealth. But there's three times bigger. So if we just thought of it as a ever-expanding pie, instead of a zero-sum game, life would get a lot better. I couldn't agree more.

And I would even say that they're doing it the more prudent compounding-based route versus us doing it the more sexy, innovative route. And those are stories as old as time. I mean, I remember when Munger said, like, Elon is an idiot, but idiots prove me wrong every once in a while. Yeah, and then Charlie, And Warren went and bought BYD anyway. Elon was an idiot for those EVs, but I'm going to buy the battery maker.

But we can't talk about China without saying it China. We can't get away without doing it's sake, China. Listen, we were supposed to talk about rates in this section, so I'll get back to rates. You know, the markets are uniquely dynamic and they make fools of us all, even the Treasury Secretary and the Federal Reserve guy. And we're in the process of that happening kind of as we speak. You know, we wanted to kind of hold onto that 5% number and hold it underneath there. And, you know, I'm old enough to remember about, I don't know, nine to 12 months ago when the 10 year dipped below 4%.

That was a, that feels like forever ago in rate time. Because we're at, you know, almost five and a quarter today. Andrew, to your point, that was, you know, mission accomplished banners all over D.C. and, oh, Scott, you're a genius. Yeah, yeah. And again, to my point, markets eventually make fools of us all, you know, even the Treasury Secretary. So the dynamic nature of markets is why we all find it so compelling, right? is why we hold up, you know, sions of, you know, having the ability to make outsized returns on a year by year basis over multiple decades. You can count those guys on maybe two hands, probably only one. They're very, very difficult to find because it's hard to do in market.

So as it relates to rates and the ripple effect it will have on the economy, both, you know, economy on the ground and then economy associated with assets. You know, K-shaped economy will be more and more K-shaped the further along we go here. That K to the upside is going to accelerate and get longer, and that K to the downside is probably going to get even flatter and just more flaccid to use a term that Scott's probably familiar with. That's funny. I knew you would pick it up.

Nice out, baby. Nice out. I'm just going to sit here and take that one. I would argue that the K though is still moving up the Y axis. We're creating a lower, a higher floor with technology. If you just measure what poverty looks like today, poverty looks like today is radically different than what poverty looked like 50 years ago or 100 years ago.

And, you know, poverty today is if I don't have the newest iPhone, that's basically in America. I mean, there's obviously I've been around the world and there's still really, really bad spots. No, it's true. Although I will say that this idea of the haves and the have-nots, again, it's not new, right? Everything new in this world is just, you know, look back 100 years and you'll find the same thing. we had the highest level of income and wealth inequality and highest level of polarization. They go hand in hand politically in the late 20s right before the Great Depression. And again, I'm not saying we're going to have the Great Depression.

I do think it's moderately curious. So I don't know how you guys feel about prescriptive programming, right? That, you know, the Matrix tells us what it's going to do to us before it actually does it. So if you watch certain television programs, it tells you what's coming. And like, I don't know if you watch this thing silo. Oh, yeah, I watched. This is scared this shit out of me, actually. Like, I mean, the trillionaire in it, it's Elon, and they're shoving people down on the ground,

and they're nuking them with drones. I'm definitely not liking it. What in God's name are we talking about on this show, huh? Oh, no, you're trying to watch the show. It's about stuffing. Okay, you're right. It's about stuffing humanity, the bottom half, into these silos in the ground.

Of course, dug by the boring company. And this is scary. And the scariest thing that, to me, lots of people seem different, the scariest thing to me was the people underground think the algorithm, the computer is controlling everything. There's this scene of one of the, I call them rebels, but they're not really rebels,

but they're the people that used to be, you know, people up above and they got shut down by the trillionaire. And she's talking to the algorithm. No, she's talking to the guy on the other side who's disguising his voice as if it's an algorithm. By the way, that's a spoiler for the entire... That's exactly what I envision. Dario and Sam. And does it bother anyone else that Sam's last name is Altman?

Dario's last name is Love God. I mean, come on. Yeah, but honestly, this is the Wizard of Oz. This is like, this has been portrayed throughout all of cinema. You know, like the Yellow Brick Road. Like, I literally had a class that did a case study on monetary policy and how the Wizard of Oz was almost the me. So like I do agree with you though.

This technology is as close to absolute power as you can get on this earth. And it's absolute power corrupts absolutely. And if you chase that rabbit to the end of the trail, it is an imprisonment of everyone who doesn't have it. And it's a harvesting of it because we go from, it's no different than what Elon's thinking about from a car perspective. Elon is an efficiency expert. He loves efficiency deltas and he attacks them.

And so if you look at what he's doing with automobiles, I mean, it's been a huge issue that everyone that has any economics background, any financial literacy background can go, why do we waste so much money on depreciatory assets that are such a large portion of our income? It just makes no sense. And he's going, you know what, I'm going to rip the whole rug out from underneath. this thing. I'm going to make a depreciatory asset, a income producing asset, and flip it on its

very head on the balance sheet and create something out of nothing that now people are lining up to be the taxi medallion holders of the next Uber, you know, wave that's going to come out, the automated vehicles. And I can't help but think it's going to be wildly successful. I mean, why, like I live in a pretty rural mountain area and there is no Uber here. So if I could own a few cars and use them for my purposes, which I never drive, and then have them working for me as an Uber fleet in, you know, a mountain town, it's a real, it's a real job. I mean, people will want to do that and they will. And so I just think there's this, this, the AI age and what we're going to be able to do is going to radically change pretty much every industry on the face of the air.

It's a blockbuster to Netflix type of that. It's actually going to kill us all, anthropic in their own, in their own IPA filage. It's like essential risk to humanity. I don't remember a time ever when you had a company that was going public and was like so big and so in the news warning about all the downside of their own product. Obviously, they're trying. Every 20 years, every 20 years, the big company is warning how they're going to kill us unless the government

make sure that they're the only one. Climate was going to kill us all. I mean Y2K was going to kill us all. Oh, unless, you know, if you pass this bill that makes voice over IP illegal,

then we'll all be saved from Y2K. I like, no, that would just mean a duopoly for Verizon and AT&T. And again, I'm not a big Al Gore fan, whatever. Actually, I'm not a fan at all. But he did save us, right? He cast the vote that saved that, defeated that bill that, look, AT&T paid hundreds of millions of dollars

for that regulatory capture. Open AI and, and, and Anthropic are doing the exact same thing on this whole nonsense of, oh, you need to, I mean, when Ms. Warren gets upset, we need to cease all frontier model development immediately. Like, you couldn't even tell me what a frontier model is. You couldn't. She couldn't. And even if you could, which you couldn't, you wouldn't actually believe it because it's just whoever paid me last is what comes out of her mouth.

She's the most vile creature. Well, they're all vile. But she's like the most vilest, if that's a one. Well, I wish I had a, I wish I had a Max Kaiser interview in my. Miami, where he went on a tirade of expletives that no human being should ever have to listen to, but I've listened to 100 times about Elizabeth Warren. It ended up something with her being a crack. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I won't go that far, but look, she's bought and paid for, and we saw it with clarity. I mean, that was just such a fiasco, but this idea that you've got to scare people to keep, them in control. Because if you're going to save them from something scary, they'll do whatever you say. Like next will, it'll be about eating bugs, right? And then, you know, all this other stuff that the wef has planned for us. But this idea that I love telling me your point on using the tools to enhance our life. That's what, that's what society and progress has always been about, right? fire, electricity, all these things, they make our life better. The only problem is this vision of, oh, everyone will have all these robotaxies is, and who's

going to use them? Like, if all of us buy robotaxis to ferry other people around, I mean, do we have to ride in each others? And then that kind of defeats the purpose. No, it's going to be an exclusive club that you either get, he's going to cap it and control the supply demand. in my opinion and medallion. So if you're in the EA cult,

if you join the EA cult, you get a medallion. Okay, got it. Got it. Why do you have to keep your eyes on the road using the autonomous driving in a Tesla car, but you can get in a robo taxi and do whatever you want? Different software upgrades. Listen, everybody partitions on software. I will buy a Tesla if I can just sleep when it's driving me around.

I don't want to have to pretend to drive while it's driving. which is, you know, so I want to say something. Going back to the rate conversation and Bitcoin, because we just need to, I had a brilliant guest in 2020 when I started my podcast. Probably the first three months I had my podcast. It was the first time I had what I viewed as a big name on my show. It was audio only. And I remember this conversation where that person said to me, Bitcoin is a beautifully idiosyncratic

asset. It is uncorrelated. Look at the 10-year correlation. That person is blow. me on the show. His name is Mark Usko. And I'm telling you, I was like shocked that I could get Mark Ustco to come on my show. This was six years

ago, right? We had this incredible conversation. We howled. We did have. This is a beautifully uncorrelated asset. Look at the data. Look at whatever. And I was having a conversation with McLone and the Macro Monday team yesterday. And I was just pulling up the charts. Not that the chart

squigglers, as they say matter, but TLT was making a new all-time low. He's pushing for bonds, right? It had broken below every meaningful level. Gold is now breaking below the 50 MA on the weekly right now, which is like the signal that bearish things there may be starting. And Bitcoin just made a higher high and is breaking above its 50MA. And it's doing it sort of on the schedule that you would anticipate for Bitcoin to be breaking out. And I was never the biggest four-year cycle guy. But going back to thinking about what Mark said to me in 2020, this thing kind of does its own thing and maybe the rates don't matter and maybe gold doesn't matter and maybe what stocks

are doing doesn't matter and certainly what bonds are doing doesn't matter because those things suck. And you said that six years ago. Well, and again, because it's one of my favorite things to tweet. It's just math. I mean, it's literally just math. And the mathematics of networks are super easy. And you should have Tim Peterson come on the show and talk about the met. Kaff's Law model that he built. And look, the guy who wrote it down the very first time back in 2013 and has never touched it and that chart's been going around this week, it's amazing. But there was one little flaw and it was just that the decay factor in his model wasn't high enough.

So Tim tweaked that and his model fits just a little bit better. And assets, whatever they are, will fluctuate around their fair value. And that fluctuation is human emotion and disagreement about the future state. And that's what causes volatility. And volatility is not the enemy. It's just a thing. And that volatility then leads to the correlation calculation, because again, it's just math. It's just a calculation. And I love when people quote, well, you know, the correlation last week. Are you joking? Do seven observations and get an accurate correlation number. You need hundreds, in fact, thousands to get real.

So I always talk about what is the long-term correlation of any two assets? And if you do Bitcoin and bonds, it's zero point zero. It's like absolutely uncourt. And that doesn't mean one goes up and it just means they don't care to Scott's point. They don't care about each other. Against equities, it's 0.15, which I've been around a long time. I've got white hair. I'm old. I get wrinkles. I love that my camera's only 720p. So it's kind of fuzzy. I love that. I had to do an interview once with this. Oh, my God. It was scary. I mean, this camera is so good. It's like, oh, never, never again. I'm using my laptop. But the correlation in my lifetime is of all the different assets. I was like, I was a hedge. fund. I was called the Madonna of hedge funds in the 90s because I would get up on stage and talk about hedge funds. And, you know, I've argued for private equity in venture capital and now I'm a late in life

venture capitalist. None of them have correlation of 0.15. They're all higher, right? Stocks and bonds are even 0.3. So, and actually more lately. So what's really interesting about this asset is it doesn't care. And when the price is below fair value, as it is today, everyone turns and runs away. Invest it. And this is true of all assets, actually. Assets, it's the only business investing where when things go on sale, people run out of the store. Like, I joke, you guys aren't old enough to remember Phileen's basement, right?

I remember Phileen's basement. Come on. And they would put the wedding dresses on sale. And like, people would, like, bludgeon each other. to get the wedding dress. They run into the store when things go on sale. When assets go on sale, people run away. And the further the price goes, the further they run.

And so now, you know, we get to this point where fair value's been slowly rising, about 104, 105. We got all the way down to 58, 5, whatever it was. And now we've been bouncing around the 80s. That's still material below fair value. And so I've been stuck on. You know, it was 364 days precisely three cycles ago, then 365 days precisely from the top to the bottom. And then 364 last time.

So I'm like, well, maybe we're in the Matrix and it's going to be 364 and that guy's going to pop up with a tweet and predict exactly when it's going to happen. So that meant, you know, next week, October 5th, we were going to get the bottom. Maybe our bottom already happened. And maybe now we are, it looks to me like we're back in accumulation. And that's okay. It doesn't have to be precisely the same. But the investors, you know, anyone who likes to buy an asset below its fair value have been accumulating.

And that accumulation, higher highs, higher lows, those squiggles do matter. You know, I love the fact that people piss on charting and technical analysis. When to the point made earlier about there's only a couple handfuls of people in the world that can compound at high levels, all of them use charts. Like every single one of them. And some of them, like some of my heroes, use zodiac stuff and lunar cycles. And I do too because we're 70% water and the lunar cycle affects us. Well, you did say you were the Madonna hedge fund.

So that tracks, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the craziest one. We have a lot more plastic surgery in. Yeah. No, when I really learned that, so when I was younger, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. So I worked in the emergency department in the summer. And full moons, 10 times the number of visits to the ER.

I'm not exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating. I was just at the football game on Friday night. You know, it was full moon Saturday. Friday night we're at the football game at high school. And this woman comes in and says, oh my God, it was so crazy at the hospital today. Like, yeah, I can tell you why. So. Well, I think you're spot on.

I think everything's, you know, frequencies at the end of the day. And frequencies either clash with one another, they harmonize with one another, or they're the same with one another. And so trying to find the current frequency and harmonize with it, you know, the pet, there's an old saying in the past isn't typically mirrored. it often rhymes, you know. And so I think looking at what we've done in the past from an emotional perspective, obviously will tend to mirror what emotionally we respond to in the future because we're human beings. We respond emotionally pretty much to everything. I think what's interesting about what we're talking about is something that we talk about all the time, which is like when the I bit options came online, I think there was a material shift in the value.

opposition of Bitcoin to the world. I need another hand. I need three thumbs up. Forget the two. There we go. Yeah, all four. I mean, yes. It shifted from a buy and hold play to a yield play.

And everyone who's smart that's been able to tap into endless fundraising like Michael Saylor, what are they focused on? They're focused on giving a stable yield above 10% to large investors and take as much capital in as they can and then harvest that outside of the volatility opportunity that lies within Bitcoin. That is the highest and best use for Bitcoin. That's what's going to keep it in the game for the longest. If you have a global market that has all the on ramps that Bitcoin has now that can equalize and stabilize the price, both on chain and off chain, there's like endless levers now. This is a dream for the largest players because they can literally have like liquidity depth to their to their hearts content and at the same time have off ramps and on ramps and leverage.

Wait, hold on hold on time. Tim, are you saying that Black Rock actually planned this? That they actually didn't just capriciously say, you know, we're just going to issue an ETAF. Again, genius level analysis. And the fact that I still see people say, Millennium has a huge eyebit position. I'm like, no, no, they don't. I mean, yes, technically they do,

but they're short the futures against it. Stop. They are harvesting the role yield. What's real yield? The way futures, markets work, the future price is higher than today's price. because we're optimistic, we're human. Okay, that's the way it works.

And so you can roll down the curve every 30 days and you harvest. And then if you can borrow money cheaply, because they're in the cult, and they get to borrow cheaply from each other, and they can make 30 plus percent risk-free, that's a good deal. And to your point on Michael, Michael is a genius. He's probably CIA. I mean, probably.

I mean, I'm not, I don't want to cast this person, but I mean, look where he lives and look what happened when he got in trouble. And, you know, I mean, the black ass are going to come get me. But it's such, it's such magic. You heard it here first. I've never heard that one before. Hey, you know what? Google where he lives.

and anyway. But there's a whole bunch of them. Elon, Teal, they're all part of the club. And again, we're not. And that's okay, because I can ride their go-tails. But, in fact, it was funny. I think it was Scott. I think you and I were doing the show.

No, no, no, no. Scott's almost as handsome as she is attracted. But it was on Michelle's show. And so I'm talking about the SBX thing, F-TX thing and Sam Banking Fried. And I went deep down the rabbit hole of his connections to Teal and to the, you know, EA cult and all this stuff. And literally the lights of my building went out. And their friend, did the black hats come get you? I'm like, no, I'm okay.

I'm good. I mean, they might come get me. But I've got to have Mark. at our event. Like, this is really, we had to have marked our event. I'll

know, like, waking up for in the show. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'm on October 15th.

Pardon? Yeah. Pardon? Yeah. Check your calendar, because we're going to be racing supercars for the first three hours.

Oh my God. You're killing me. Yeah. At the motor on. I have a wedding, but the wedding. Okay, the wedding is a wedding.

until the 17th. So we can talk. We can talk. Well, to your point, Mark, and there's two sides of life. One are the players and one is the house. And getting into the house is really hard. And you don't get to participate in the rake. And so, you know, there's ways to avoid the house like playing poker.

You're playing against other people. There's there there but you know getting to a position where like I've been asking this question for a long time is like okay you've got 70 plus percent of the volume in the markets are market makers that are on the other side of it how do they accumulate that how do they provide liquidity without accumulating a lopsided position and then how do they protect those lopsided positions when price goes outside and why wouldn't that be the real game that? it's being played because that's where the big fish are eating the medium fish and the biggest fit it's again it's it that's the insight and i said it's it's to be careful what you ask for you might get a problem remember when you know we're all like oh we're not a security we don't want to be a security like fine you're not a security you're a commodity and it's like yay awesome like are you really that gullible? Do you understand what

just happened? Okay? So this happened to gold. Remember when GLD was held up for two and a half years? Two and a half years. GLD, they made the application. They checked all the boxes.

They paid all the, and then nothing. Two and a half years. Why? Well, J.P. Morgan had to get fully short gold in order to permit the long side to come in. They're like, okay, good. So they were short, literally two times the world.

What's funny about this, like, Mark, what do you talk about? I only have this knowledge because Scott Besson gave it to me. During the little financial crisis, he literally went through 400 boxes of public documents to find out what J.P. Morgan was doing in the gold market. and they were short two times the world's gold. And so gold prices were stuck. Remember, they were just stuck like this forever.

And then suddenly they break out. And remember, it wasn't when the GLD went public, actually went down 40%. Well, you talk about it. Because if now you got along, now JPMorgan can go super short and they can spoof gold. And they've been doing this forever. And they get fined every few years. they get fined. It's public knowledge.

It's on the courts. It's everywhere. I mean, that's what's so crazy is this. They do it. It's the cost of doing business. Exactly. $960 million fine, which, by the way, did you know that the SEC has no budget? Yeah.

They are, they operate based on their fines. That's why their fines are so big. Like Stevie Cohen, just pay me. No, you don't have to admit guilt. No guilt. There was another one recently. This guy, you know, well, one of them is probably going to go to jail. But they built people out of $300 million,

and the guy had to pay a $750,000 fine, but he didn't have to admit guilt. I'm like, if the other guy's going to jail, there's probably guilt. But anyway, so. The LD chart, by the way, and there it is at the beginning. I know it looks like it's not much,

but that's actually almost two years. That's a long time. Yeah. Like it's a monthly chart, and it went down from here all the way down from 40s. And on that right hand side, right, where you got the breakout. That is the beach ball coming.

And once you get a short covering rally, that's why it was so parabolic. But now you got, I named this years ago, the famous puking dinosaur pattern. I would not be that long. This one is more of a classic. That's a long time, man. Remember, this chart is in years. Everybody can't see it. This chart is in years.

Those are long periods. The company handle. Yeah, but it's funny to me to hear the Bitcoin Maxis Oh, that is good, Scooter. That is really good. That is pretty good. Bitcoin Maxis are talking about, like, we should hold all of our coins in self-custody, even in spite of the latest, like, hardware wallet incident.

And I just think it's the same story different day. I've been hearing that from my dad about being a gold bug for literally 30 years. Like, it's the same exact. And so I don't even think the most recent gold breakout, I think that gold suppression or manipulation was to Mark's point. There's a yield harvesting opportunity that's too good to pass up. And it's like an infinite money machine. It just, the more people.

It's an infinite money glitch. And I can't believe I'm going to say this, but no, I can because the mooch and I, the mooch and I are friends. I mean, we have, we have our, our, our, our, our clashes in the past, but we're friends. But his son actually was on TV yesterday or the day before. And he said something that maybe he figured it out or maybe somebody gave it in the stat. I don't know. But it's pretty impressive number. He said that gold and Bitcoin.

And that's like saying me and Elon have a trillion dollars in net worth. So, you know, gold plus Bitcoin has produced more wealth since the crisis than the NASDAQ. So we're talking about NASDAQ, NASDAQ, NASDAQ. It's up seven trillion. But gold and Bitcoin are up nine trillion. I was like, damn, that's a really interesting thing. And what people don't really understand is that doesn't mean your assets got better. This is the money illusion that we're in.

Why is NASDAQ appear up so much? Why does your house appear to be up so much? The house didn't get better. The house didn't grow. The money got worse. And that's why gold is up. And that's why Bitcoin is up. Now, gold is up episodically because of this spoofing problem.

But if you just drew a straight line over that whole period. And then you calculated the rise over the run, the slope. And you calculated the money supply increase, they'd be almost the same number. Isn't that funny? Isn't that funny? Because for 5,000 years, which is a long time. You know, statistically, now we can get good numbers.

5,000 years, single ounce has bought a fine person suit. 5,000 years from Cleopatra, suit of armor, zoot suit, Saville Row. Go to Saville Row, give them an ounce, fine person suit. And that's perfect. Now, Bitcoin is doing the same thing, except it has this cycle because of human emotion, but also because the four-year cycle is hard. hard-coded into the code. But having created the four-year cycle.

And it's like, what are you talking about? Think about it. Okay? If the Brockmore words go down, half the miners have to go out of business. But they don't because they hold until the price goes up. And what makes the price quo? Because if there's increasing demand, which there is, the network is growing. And then when the institutions came, the network was really growing.

you get to choose what price you sell. Someone makes you an offer or bid. Whatever. Yeah, bid. And then you don't have to hit it. I think all of that's gotten a lot more complicated than the original equation was. I was a miner for a long time. And when public companies started mining and they could raise debt capital to buy the new iteration,

that changed that model forever. And I do think, though, there will be a, I think the thing from a safety perspective in AI is not, we're focused on the wrong thing. How powerful the model gets is one aspect. Where the compute is stored is the most important aspect. If you decentralize the compute across the entire nation like we do our grid system, like we do electricity poles and put a compute box on each electric pole, that's owned as a utility across the country, then guess what?

There isn't this like big, bad, scary monster that has a huge amount of computers in an underground bunker that can essentially rule us with an iron fist. And that's what I think Bitcoin standard, if you're going to take anything from Bitcoin and what it's done, it's the largest network that's ever been built by humans. And it was built organically on natural law principles of, of supply and demand. And that is the beautiful, that's the most beautiful song economically that's ever been written.

Oh my God. That's like the greatest clip, Scott, you got to take that clip. And we got, I mean, that just needs to go out every day. No, seriously, that is the most beautiful summary.

It is, it is the greatest computer network. The world has ever seen. That's just fact. I always use this to stat. It's $1,500. times more powerful than the CERN supercomputer. And the CERN supercomputer, pretty good, right?

It sits on the Stargate and it's doing all this stuff. But it is organic. And look, the miracle is that we went from 0.03 cents to a dollar. Yeah. Like, how did that happen? In fact, Alex Thorne, you know, from Galaxy, did this great video the other day on the history of Bitcoin. And, you know, he fed it into the, you know, AI tool.

And the AI tools are getting better and better, better at doing stuff. And producing a video is a good thing. But it was so cool watching those early days of when there just wasn't anything there. And, you know, the first time that the pizza got bought, everybody said, God, that was so stupid. No, no, that was perfect, right? And before that, it was, it was the running Bitcoin and the 10 Bitcoin transaction. And those were the things that easily people could have said, no, that's stupid.

And it could have died. But it didn't. And it organically grew. And when you think about it as a $2 trillion asset from nothing, literally faster than any company, no CEO, no marketing, no. And you say, well, no, there's, you know, there's marketing, you know, sailors marketing and, and, you know, y'all are marketing and Melker's marketing. Okay. There are, there are definitely people who, who talk about it. But, but we don't, we don't get compensated by the company, right? We're not like Google employees,

you know, we're not Bitcoin employees. And we do it because we, we saw the light. I couldn't make this up, right? In Eureka, California, I have my eureka moment, you know, behind the wheel of an RV. And I just saw that this is a technology that's superior for money, which money is an asset that exists in the absence of a liability. It's superior to gold. And gold has been our money. And before that, you know, we had the shells and we had the wheels and we had the, you know, copper pennies or whatever they were. Copper little pellets.

Fine. But you need the scarcity. You need the immutability. And the simple one I always use is, look, if I had a bar gold, like if I were Kyle Bass, you know, under his desk, he keeps a 26 kilogram gold coin from Australia. I mean, it's a giant. And it's worth like, you know, a million plus stock. And he pulls it out. He's like, look at this.

Like, even if I had that, which I don't, I couldn't break it into four pieces to send it to you. And even if I could break it, if I were super strong, I couldn't stuff it in the computer and send it to you. And, you know, I was just the same thing. All the big one in the world fits right here. There's none here. Don't sim swap me.

People tried twice. I don't keep any on my phone. It's in cold storage like my socks. So don't sim swap me, please. But I could put it all here. But I don't. But I could with a couple taps, send you one Satoshi. And that networking system for transferring value, it is the greatest, I think it's the greatest invention of my lifetime. Now, I think they're a better invention. I mean, electricity pretty dang good. Um, fire pretty good.

So there are some things that, that were really good. But this is right up there. Well, this is a inclusion. I think what you just described to me is, is what I call the, the tender years of Bitcoin, where a brute force attack was a tender. Not swipe, left, swipe, right? Make a fire. The young adolescent years got, no, but it's the brute force attack, you know, it was close to happening once. And I don't think it survives in this day of AI as an organic. I think we've seen the last of that.

And I think the light bulb has gone off as it pertains to how critical the attack would need to be at those early years. And that's why I'm not a big Zcash fan or any other kind of network like that. Because I think that at the time, I think that this was a standard that had been set. And it was a very unique opportunity, a nexus, if you will, in time. And I do think that it will, you know, the characteristics of Bitcoin will be mirrored and, you know, mimicked. across all of our financial rails because it does speak such truth to the people, just like you said, like absolute freedom with your money is something that once you experience it,

there is no going back. I mean, one of the earliest aha moments, like when I first found Bitcoin was like, watch, I can send it to you on Sunday. Yes. No,

in your pajamas on the couch. It's no, it's, and Jimmy's song, you know, I love Jimmy. I love, you know,

the cowboy hat. I mean, I hate handsome people, right? Because I'm not. And but. I know. I know, Andrew. I know. I know.

I like you. No words. But, but Jimmy's just this, this guy, right? And he gets up and the first time I heard him speak, I was like, transfixed. And he says, you know, something very controversial. She says, you know, if you get paid in Fiat, you're a slave. Oh, you can't use that word. And you're like, no, no, seriously, think about it. You're a slave because what they gave you,

they're going to steal back through this thing called inflation. And also, as an inflationary asset, you need to work more and harder to maintain your position. It says with a deflationary asset like Bitcoin, you now can spend less time working because your money will appreciate overtime and you will unleash, and I love this quote, you will unleash the most powerful force in nature, which is human creativity. I mean, literally my mind exploded. I'm like, well, that's exactly it. And that was the point we're talking about earlier. The human creativity is the voice. It's why the AIs,

they don't think. They're four criteria for thought. They don't pass any of them. There's mathematical proof that they can't create anything new because they're trained on old. And so they're great at searching stuff faster than you can.

Awesome. Well, they're the best secondary dance partner you can have, but they never will be the lead dancer. Oh, there. Tillman is in fuego, dare I say, en fuego. So now people are going to go, where have I heard that before? And they're going to go search. You know where I've heard it?

Patrick. Yer girlfriend. Yucco looks like Dan Patrick. So one funny story. So Notre Dame's coming down to Chapel Hill this weekend, so I'm pretty excited. And one time I was up at Notre Dame in a game. And this guy comes up and he says, Mr. Patrick, Mr. Patrick. I'm like, I'm not Dan Patrick.

He's no, I know you just don't want anybody to know. But will you sign my, like, dude, I am not Dan Patrick. Like, no, I understand. But I signed it. And so somewhere, some guy has the. And I didn't sign Mark Euston. I signed Dan Patrick. So.

Very good. Well, the only place I know in Fuego is the chicken in Fuego on the tapas menu in Rosemary Beach. That's the best chicken. It's the, so that's. In Florida Panhandle? That's correct. Yeah.

There's a place called, I think, I don't care. I'm going to remember it. You know, listen, I take it as a compliment. Thank you. Yeah, so you've got to come up with its left. So we got to talk about Florida. Andrew, since we witnessed this burgeoning love affair between Mark and Tillman today.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to give you the opportunity to pick Mark. Yeah, it's over 50s for Florida. Yeah. Yeah, it is, we're having a really unique event. It's one day only, because we respect people's time. But it is going to be a full day.

Get there at 8.30, our concierge clients and their guests are going to race supercars around the track at the motor enclave for three hours. We'll have lunch. Then Scott is going to emce about two and a half, three hours of content. Hopefully Mark will be there. And a bunch of others over the next, you know, two weeks. We'll announce. Cardones, right?

Yeah, Cardones will be there. Charlie Schramm will be there. Yusco will be there if we got to drag him, kicking and screaming. But then we'll have a nice dinner and have a little bit of an after party. That'll probably have some fun stuff. Most people are staying at the hard rock to the after party. You may have something to do with that. But it'll be a great time.

I minded folks, there's going to be a bunch of Ferraris. there because we partnered with the local dealership to enjoy that. There's going to be a bunch of very, very, very expensive watches there. One of our clients is one of the biggest collectors of FPJourne watches in the world. Also, the 1916 company is going to be there to put on a display. So really, really cool time, really time well spent, great conversations. And I look forward to you. Oh, I love this. I have to be in Oklahoma City for a wedding, but I think I can make it work.

So I'm going to go to work on that as soon as we get off the show here. Yeah. And you had me at the invitation, because it was a very kind invitation. But just you really had me at the supercar thing because I have this buddy who took me down to the Porsche driving school down in Mississippi. Most fun I've ever had with my clothes on, full stop. It was the most mind-bending experience. And I'm not like a super car car. But it was so much fun.

But the funniest part. So after three days, you're feeling pretty good. You're going 120 miles an hour. You're thinking you're a really good driver. And like, all right, get in the passenger seat. You can take a hot lap. Oh, my God. It was like I wasn't even driving the car.

Yeah, yeah. It was with a real driver, it was, I mean, we were at 120 in the hairpin turn. Of course. I mean, it was insane. We did that in Vegas in 2025 at the Bitcoin Conference. We went out to the Motor Speedway with all of our employees in us, and we raced all the Ferraris and Lambos. And then we got in some track cars too and got to do it. And I left with the same, like there's a video of me just not, I did a drift experience where the guy just drifting us around the track.

I couldn't stop laughing. It was the most fun I've ever had in my entire life. And I tell people now, like, if you're ever in a city that operates, even if you want to own all the cars, you'd never drive them like they let you drive them. No way. No way. And that's the whole reason they exist.

Like, we did the little, you know, cone thing. There's a name for it and they do it in parking lots and stuff. Driving a Porsche? Yes. like jamming on it and going 60 miles an hour and then hitting the, I mean, it was so much fun. The braking is the most impressive. Yeah, you break with your left.

Well, that's what the cones he's talking about blew my mind too. Like they have three cones and then two cones about, you know, 20 yards away and then one cone. And the drivers in the or the professionals next to you and he's going like hit the break as hard as you can, the second and the first cone. And you're like, you're a hundred feet from a hairpin turn. Yes, exactly. And there's no way we're stopping. And those things, I mean, the braking is, when you, when you pull off the track,

they're like, you know, taking, what were they, they were doing air hoses and trying to cool off the brakes because some of them were like catching on fire and stuff. It's pretty awesome. No, it's, it's, they're engineered to be driven. And then, you know, I would say what makes me a little angry, not not angry really, bit. You know, there's three guys that want all the collectible Porsches. Jay Leno, Jerry Seinfeld, and John Shirley, the number three guy at Microsoft. And they'll bid whatever it takes so the other guy can't have it to take the car and put it in a garage and buckle the cloth.

I'm like, no, let the beasts run. You're talking to a team of Porsche guys here, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the new T-Hibrit is sweeping, you know, all. of the, I think the new Gt3 and the GT3RS are going to have, you know, turbos in them next year. So it'll be interesting to see what the prices of the, you know, unaspirated six is to. I think of RS at my listed for 550. Oh, yeah.

Well, look at the R. Look at what happened in the R's and the ATS. And the R's and the R's have gone up, some of them over a million dollars. 200,000 or eight cars. Yeah. Made to drive. Made to drive. A big to drive.

Yeah, get a deep. The only other experience. I have a car. I have another buddy who's a big Ferrari guy. And so we were on this boat in Italy, a mini cruise together. He's like, hey, I get to go tour the Ferrari factory. Do you want to come? I'm like, oh, man.

Yes. Yes. And so I swear to God you could eat off the floor. Yeah. Everyone, male and female, was just gorgeous. Like, all the workers were gorgeous. The guys are all like super models in this super tight fit, you know, t-shirt. I mean, it's what you hope and imagine it would be it didn't disappoint any of the Ferrari fantasies.

And they showed us the machining of the valves. And it was just like, that's art. It is just art. And it was just so cool. Anyway. We got to race the Ferraris there. And when I left, my wife asked me, which ones did you enjoy the most? I said, I enjoyed driving the Porsches the most.

But I enjoyed sitting in the Ferrari the most. And when you stood in my thing, you're like, wow, I feel like I'm taking smart. It's like a big hug. It's like a glove. And it just hugs you. But the Porsches, I had never experienced it. And I didn't understand it. And they just walked away going, okay, now I get it.

Yeah, I got a Titan TurboS as a daily. driver just to be into the ground and drive my kids around. I think it was like zero to 60 and like 1.9 on the street. You're getting into insane speed turn. Eric Bueller, when they take the car and they'd go over the... Oh my God, yeah. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but you know, the Nuremberg track. Yeah.

Have you seen what the time records have done since hypercars in these electric? Yeah, it's just, I mean, they're shattering every. record. Andrew, quickly, what's the dealership and what are the cars? Tampa Bay Ferrari. Tampa Bay, Ferrari, Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay. So, do they know that they're letting us drive those cars or do they think they're? I don't think we're, I don't think we're going to be driving their cars. Their cars are going to be positioned next to the stage and in an area. Scott, you can buy their cars. They're for sale. Yeah. One of our friends, one of the friends who I know is going to be there, I don't know if his car collection will be

around, but holy crap. I know he's going to have a serious, yeah, I won't get into the specifics. All right. All right. I'm going to work on it. Over time. But, yeah, Mark, you can jump off real quick. I'm just going to show this one more time.

It's at archpublic.com slash full dash throttle. I don't know if it's in the description, but we'll put it there. Mark, we're going to get you there. I'll text you right after. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Really enjoyed it. Thanks, Mark.

We'll be seeing you. My reg league goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve? Maybe play to win, huh? Like with Bet365, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. Steve, Bet365, the home of winning early. Must be 19 and older, Ontario only.

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