The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Dumps To $86K! ETFs See Inflows | CryptoTownHall

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

This episode of Crypto Town Hall is a lively, wide-ranging discussion about the current state and outlook of Bitcoin and the broader crypto market. The hosts and guests examine the sharp Bitcoin correction and debate whether the market is experiencing a normal bull cycle setback or the onset of a prolonged bear phase. They also dig into macroeconomic influences, regulatory updates from Washington, and the evolving relationship between crypto and traditional finance. The conversation is a blend of market analysis, personal strategies, and policy insights, aiming to provide listeners with both practical and big-picture perspectives.

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Crypto Town Hall every single weekday here on exit 10.15 a.m. Eastern Standard time. I hope that you're all having an amazing day. Bitcoin, obviously, hit a low around 88,600, depending on the exchange that you have been watching, bounced up a bit, and now continuing to sort of. languish in this zone, I would say, we're, I would say, at a major crossroads for a lot of people where we have equal conviction that this is a bull market correction of 30% that's standard on one side and the other side that it's all over and price is going way, way lower for many years into the depths of a bear market. And there are valid arguments, I guess, on both sides, depending whether you're looking at it technically or fundamentally in how you choose to trade this market. I've had a lot of euphoric bears in my comments. I pointed out that I bought $88,000. I said I've made a lot of wrong prediction, so that's not the point here. But when we went to

109, Dave, you'll remember that you and I were talking about the dip to 74, and that we would buy 74, and we were talking about that when it was over 100. It happened to go to 74, because that was back to the old all-time high, if you are a chartist. And I have been pointing out since April that I had bids at 88 area for the same reason. I'm dollar cost averaging with most of my money, but kept bids there that filled. And when I've posted that, I'm getting a lot of bear euphoria telling me how dumb I am. To the point where I've actually been offering one of the more gratuitous engagement farmers in my comments a bet because you know you don't get to go in my comments repeatedly and tell me i'm

dumb and that price is going to 35 000 and i should be buying there without getting a response so i'd love to hear your thoughts on this i said i will buy as much bitcoin as you will sell me or we can put it on a schedule week to week for 75 000 we can put a time base on it or a certain price where it expires. But right now he has to sell me Bitcoin is $75,000. But if it goes below that to $35,000 as he has such high conviction in repeatedly, then I will buy all the Bitcoin he has to sell me at $75. It's an interesting option structure. I'd have to think through the math. The bottom line. Yes, I can just buy it. Right. Obviously. You can, you know, it's really easy to go out on well actually it's not so hard you have to do translation i mean if you were

outside of the united states on deribut it'd be very easy just sell uh sell a boatload of puts at 75 even call it a day and if he's really believing it he should buy a boatload of puts at 70 and pay that premium and and call it a day and whatever and the two of you don't have to have stupid bets going back and forth. But, you know, look, it's, when you look at markets, it's the context matters. You know, when we were down at 74, all of the, the stock market, everything else was, was, was getting crushed. And it's basically just a liquidity momentum trade. Unless you're blind, deaf and dumb, you can understand that that Bitcoin is, and crypto work. than the rest of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is going through a period of time where it is delinked

in the wrong way, i.e. people say, well, you know, why am I at 50 times earnings? And, you know, and I'm actually more bullish on a video than a lot of the commentators were about yesterday's stuff. I even posted it this morning. But, you know, it's just, it really is a question of what the hell you're buying. You know, if you look at the hash rate and the other stuff about the network, fundamentals, that hasn't changed. That's just, you know, tick-tock and other block and moving higher. But, you know, you have this whole four-year cycle narrative. You have the overwhelming, overwhelming sentiment in the crypto community is bearish. And we have greed and fear at levels that are, you know, kind of damn close to, if not already, bottoms. I mean, you know, just, you know,

It's over, it's over. It's over. And we're sitting here at 90,000. So all I have to say is, you know, you can't predict because markets can remain rational longer than anyone can remain insolvent unless you're James win and you're willing to bet your entire fortune on something that you have no control over. I would never do that. But, you know, I'm very, I'm not picking a level like 75 or anything.

any other level for that matter i just think that bitcoin will be higher in the future it is move it is at a a historically great great level to buy relative to its hash rate and network growth just like it was a historically great time to sell relative to its network growth when it was sitting at 60 some odd thousand before all the all the the catastrophes in you know that happened in 22 in 2021 so you know it's and by the way there was an equally when bitcoin hit it was really 17,000 we always say 20 because some exchanges had 20,000 but you could have always bought you there was On the way up. Yeah, on the way up.

On the way up. You're talking about it, yeah, for cycle, yeah. In 17, it was also historically above it at that point. And so, you know, you see this stuff. And, you know, if you're, if you're a long-term quant, you, like, I'm really happy, you know, I would be really happy buying here. I'm just holding because I'm sitting on, I'm sitting on my hands. But, you know, it's like actually the worst thing that I saw last night, the thing that bothers me the most is fart coin was one of the largest performers last night and and it's still

up on on the day yeah i just whenever i see shit like that i know that there's certain animal spirits in crypto that don't take much to awaken why it goes in the crap like that i don't know and that might be a signal though that there's actual confidence in the balance if you want to take a silver lining right because i i i don't know but let me say that I posted a meme this morning, one of my favorite expressions, the beatings will continue until morale improves. That's right. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, but that's what that is what's going on.

I mean, the truth is that the, there's every single time this happens, every time there's one of these major corrections in Bitcoin, whether in a bull market or on, on in a bear market, it doesn't matter. every time you see some flavor of fud that comes out that gets people terrified this time you know in the past it was the u.s. government's kind of compensated you know because Elizabeth Warren is saying whatever the hell she's saying China's going to ban it you know this time the two the two pieces of fud are my macro strategy is going to sell and quantum is going to break it entirely and make it go to zero now it The smartest people who I know in the space think that the ladder is absolutely ridiculous, that there is a risk of the old wallet, but I think we've already seen with that risk.

And so it's massively overstated. As far as the former, it's complete nonsense. I mean, yes, it is, it's a recursive statement. I even got Grock to admit that it was a circular argument, which was funny. But, you know, you have to kind of fight with Grock a little bit or chat GPT. because they say things and they don't necessarily have thought it through. But the truth is the only way micro strategy has to sell Bitcoin is if Bitcoin fails, basically. It basically falls well below 10,000.

We're talking, you know, basically looking like the 51% attack is possible kind of failure, right? That's it. That's the only thing will force it. Maybe four or five years from now as the maturities of some of their debt come do, maybe if they can't, you know, flip them into perpetual. But the truth is that there's no immediate, not even in the next year or two, you know, even possibility of them selling anything. So that fud triggered a lot, you know, and that's pretty much it.

And then the only other one, and I heard you talking this morning in your show, you asked the question about bodies floating to the top of the pool. At this point, just to be clear, I think that there probably was a wave of for selling from funds that you and I have never heard of because they're private and they don't have to publicly tell anybody that they're closing, the only people who know are their investors. But the idea that there might be funds or places that own assets that are, that are going to have to sell in the future seem impossible, right? You know, it's been two months. I mean, it's hard to imagine that someone's going to dissolve a fund and sell their assets.

sets now over two months later, right? So, you know, from, well, not two months. It's been a month and, you know, 10 days. But it seems less and less likely as time goes by, there'll be more. But it seems highly likely that there was a fair amount of it. And so you need to take that into account, too. Okay, I've talked a lot. I only see Matt's hand up, but Matt, go for it.

GM, GM, guys. Wow. Yeah, Scott, kudos to you on getting that 88. man. I had a buy order in 88 Eve and I was watching it just come down and it was wicking to 88 6, 884. And I was like, oh, come on, come on. But I didn't get it. Took a nibble at 90, 90,0004. So, yeah, we'll see what happens here. My big question, though, is yesterday I know Dave and you and Scott rolling some pretty amazing circles and have access to some really brilliant minds. So my question is, what are we hearing from Congressman Warren Davidson yesterday? He came out. with a pretty ballsy post or some contents saying a big announcement coming out of D.C. today.

I'm just kind of curious what that is. And also the big news I thought yesterday that's kind of went under the radar was the federal government said that banks can hold Bitcoin and digital assets. I put that out yesterday as well. I thought that was kind of big. Are we seeing, are we thinking that Bank of America, Brian Moynihan, Wells Fargo, et cetera, are actually building liquidity tests right now during this downturn? Those are the kind of things that I'm looking at right now. Matt, or if you guys can hear me, I keep getting here. We have Dan and Ron here, who are the exact people to ask that question.

Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Dan and Ron, go ahead. Yeah, I'll just stop in. Thanks for having me, guys. Grant, good to see again. Yeah, the OCC News, the Office of the Control of the Currency, a huge deal. That was really, really groundbreaking news. Essentially, it's going to permit mainstream, large-scale national banks to hold what they call crypto assets, I would assume, for the most part, Bitcoin for now as principal, pay crypto asset network fees. It's really significant for our space. You know, Ron, you can check in here too, but it's something that was kind of under the radar.

And I'm glad that they, you know, when they confirmed Jonathan Gould is the OCC controller, several. months back, and he's just been off to the races. This shutdown, interestingly enough, it gave a lot of these regulators a lot of time to get stuff done. You know, their critical staff was still there remaining, and I think not just the OCC, but even the CFTC, the other major primary regulator for our industry. Most of you've probably known, they just nominated Seleague as the CFTC chair. He has confirmation here. were yesterday. They went very well. So between the OCC News and the likelihood of Sealy coming in,

who's currently a protege of Atkins over the SEC, it's going to be really good for our industry. So to me, I don't see, I don't compare what we're going through right now to 2020. It's ridiculous. Oh, my God. That blows my mind. I wrote an entire newsletter on that, Dan. It's like, it's recency bias. You know, everybody, like you love, you look back and you're like, wow,

My ex-girlfriend who was psycho and killed my cat from five years ago is so amazing now that my new kind of moderately bad girlfriend is annoying me. It's like FtX, Voyager, Celsius, Luna, Vol, literally, the entire industry collapsed. We almost had it regulated and legislated out of existence. And now we just have a 30% price correction with great news. Incredible news. I mean, you look at the even just as the price. The private sector, look at the valuations. Cracken just came out last, yesterday, with that great news with their valuations in the same thing.

And the IPO is going to happen. Great scale did the same thing. So even on the private side, it's been a really record year for our industry. So I don't see it. I don't see the doom and gloom. Ron, did you want to follow up on anything there? Yeah, I mean, I can quickly highlight what my own. old boss is doing Warren Davidson that, you know, Matt referenced there. It looks like more the

Bitcoin Policy Institute has been behind a lot of this effort here. But it's mostly around how to find the strategic Bitcoin Reserve. And then things like no capital gains tax on paying in Bitcoin. So, which is huge movements here. You know, obviously it's just a bill reduction and it's going to take a while to get through the process here we also have the market structure bill likely going to get a vote in the senate banking and senate agriculture committee in December which is kind of like the first or I say like step three or four and a multitude of steps to get a bill signed a lot but like that's progress and the dance point a lot of the staff that were working on market structure legislation and a lot of the staff that were working on market structure legislation

and a lot of the crypto stuff, we're kind of, you know, the early parts of the shutdown and twilling their thumbs because it really couldn't do much. But as it's dragged on, they started just to keep working on this issue and having momentum on the market structure bill. So I'm actually pretty, you know,

a lot more bullish than I was a couple weeks ago. I've moved this forward. Yeah, the timeline shifted. It's Congress. They always miss their deadlines. But there is real momentum here. It's going to come down to a lot of tough decisions that a lot of the centers we're going to have to make when it's crunch time. But overall, like we got momentum in D.C., which is huge.

And the dance point, lastly, I'll say at least in the markets, we are seeing a lot of the Tradify folks working with the crypto companies and institutional money coming in. But we're seeing the complete opposite in D.C. where they're actually fighting the crypto industry on the lobbying side. pretty aggressively, again, most notably the banks, but I think we're going to see that group expand over time. But overall, it's kind of weird to see how it's kind of flipped. We're now, we're used to be friends with the banks for quite some time in D.C. And now it's flipped, but then it goes to the market side. And it's a completely different story where now they're actually working with the crypto firm. So it's exciting, but it's definitely a weird time that I haven't seen my, what, eight years in this

industry before? So, we'll think. Yeah, that's where this 2025 versus 222 thing loses me. It's, yeah, I think people just don't remember how bad it was. It was the depths of hell. And right now, you know, price action might be bad. The macro might be bad. And Dave, I think we should talk to Mike about that, of course.

Yeah. And those things can drag the market. But it's not the same. It's not the same for Bitcoin. Go ahead. Let's identify a bunch of the most important differences. First of all, most important differences, the network itself is six times more robust than it was back then. Six.

Okay, so let's just start right there from a fundamental point of view. Second, is that Bitcoin itself is now available for people to buy. and sell and brokerage accounts. We are on the adoption curve with people understanding the core value proposition. That FUD that is being circulated isn't Bitcoin, isn't anything to do with, you know, the fact that it's magic internet money,

yada, yada, yada, it's all about security, you know, via quantum, et cetera. It's a different sort of thing, which, you know, I think it was, Adam back basically came out yesterday and basically said, listen, guys, you know, Bitcoin is going to be a lot easier to secure than a lot of other things in the financial system. You should understand it and stop, you know, kind of parroting bullshit talking points. But, you know, this always happens, right? It just, it does always happen. There is absolutely leverage in the system. And, you know,

people who predicted, and lots of them did, predicted that the Treasury companies would call cause massive force selling, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, yeah, the treasury companies, undeniably have caused a lot of this change in an attitude. But at the end of the day, something, and I don't know that I agree with him, that Joe Carlos, Sarah, I don't know if that's how I'm pronouncing the name right, but Joe said, it's like, look, if the silver lining is the death of the four-year cycle narrative, then will be fine. I mean, the truth is, it's the four-year cycle narrative is what a lot of people

in the crypto world are charting on and trading on. And so it's 30% is, is what we're at. I mean, yeah, I mean, if Bitcoin does go to what your, your critic says down to 35,000, then yeah, it'll be the same as every other cycle, right? The question is, what the hell is every other cycle and where is Bitcoin in the system? I think that the single most important, news that is completely out of this market. The OCC is cool. It's a cool thing. But what the F.T did when they announced that, or they actually, you know, talk to the person who's responsible for the Basel three, the Basel rules, that they need to rewrite crypto rules. And what does that mean? That means that when they change those rules, the banks will not just be able to trade

crypto, but we'll be able to facilitate within the existing financial system. And that means everything. Bitcoin has an asset, pari-pursue with every other asset based upon its liquidity and its volatility. And that is a massive, massive deal. And yeah, we need regulations. We need a lot of the stuff. Everything Ron said is true. But ignoring that, you know, that's one of those things that someone just rang a bell and six months to a year from now, you're going to see the bell actually run and people are going to trade it, but you need to understand what that means. Now, that doesn't have a lot to do with the rest of crypto, I guess, unless the assets are stable. But the truth is, it matters a lot. And I saw virtually, other than me, I really saw

very little commenting about it. I thought it was massive. And maybe I'm just brain dead now. Maybe I'm just dumb. I don't know. But it feels to me that that matters. Yeah, it does. And I want to go to the panel and talk more about macro, but just to wrap the conversation on, you know, Bitcoin bear market and 35,000 targets, the reason I would be willing to make a bet like that is because if someone said to me right now, even if we're going into a bear market for three years, but you can buy all the Bitcoin you want at 75,000 while we're sitting at 90, I would. Right? Yeah. Well, and And even if it goes lower and I'm forced to buy at 75, I'm not the kind of guy who needs to buy the dead bottom,

so I'll still be really excited when it's 500. So I don't view it as a losing situation for me personally. I mean, yeah, I mean, look, obviously anytime you can make a purchase at below the market. Yeah, let's go. Well, you're going to do it because it's just, it is what we call in the trade, a positive EV trade. EV stands for expected value. You don't have to think.

You don't have to really think about it. People who try to buy the dead bottom rarely do. People who try to sell the dead top rarely do. The ones that do, you post about it continuously on X. And they don't tell you the 99 times out of 100 that they failed to do so. So ended up costing themselves. Well, all you have to do is look at my YouTube titles because you can see how good myself and my producers are at any given day

when we're trying to get people clips. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. You're kidding. One of the things that you have to understand is that every, you know, even a blind squirrel finds a few nuts. So when you see an influencer that makes one great call, that doesn't mean they're going to be right.

more. It's really, you know, anymore unless their thesis makes sense to their thought process. It's like showing your work. There are people who say this. You know, it's like someone was going back over with James Wynn today. And James Wynne made a great call. He said, yeah, 92 absolutely is going to happen when we were over 100. He got it right. Now, the question is, what other shit has he done and how many times has he lost when you make these sorts of bets? And it, no one wants to ever admit to that. It's like my mother, her best friend, was

convinced that she was the best slot player in Atlantic City and that she could go down to Atlantic City, be comped by Harrah's, blah, blah, blah, blah, because, you know, she would tell her every time she won a jackpot. Great. But there was no

way in hell if you look through her lifetime at sitting at a slot machine that someone who sat there and got to the law of large numbers it is almost impossible to conceive that they made money but doesn't matter because they don't tell you about the times they lose money only tell you about the times they make money and so you get a lot of that going on and i think dan had had something to say before yeah yeah i saw the thumbs up on the on on the the the basle balls and why that matters but i think

i think and you're still there yeah yeah yeah no i wasn't going to weigh in on that but i mean it is It is quite significant, especially on the global side. I mean, the notion that the Big Boswell Committee would even weigh in on digital assets a few years back would have been unheard of. But I have not personally briefed myself on that other than reading the article. All right, should we talk macro because, Mike, we've got you here to keep us measured. And the fact is that if you – right, well, if you look at the – industry, objectively, things are better. Right. So that doesn't mean that it means it will be a sustainable or a bare market, but I think we all agree that if it's going to fall here, it would

likely be tied to bigger things, which is what you focus on. Yeah, I do believe this is the start of a pretty significant significant bare market in cryptos. And I think everybody's listening and just speaking, you talk about trading trade, but don't. be shy about selling. It's a buy-sell market. Just look at Ethereum. It's been stuck in a range since 2021. You sell around 4,000, you buy around 2000. You've done great. It's just kind of my life in commodities. But the key thing that tilts me towards this bear market is the things I started speaking about last year now. It's right now. If you had told me at the beginning year that we'd be having gold up 56% this year, the best year since 1979, and the Bloomberg Galaxy

crypto index and crude oil, both down 16% this year, asked me to guess what else would happen. I'd say, yeah, it's a recession. Stock market's down. The Fed's eased a lot. Where do we go next? Obviously, that's not happening. The question is, will that happen? So I look at it right now, is this crypto market.

is the leading indicator for everything. And what we're learning the hard way, some people, some people not, that everything's linked and more so than ever. So if you get some of these alts cone down, you know, Bitcoin's going to get a hit, hit, too. We're also learning that 2020 for might have marked the significant sell everything, you know, end of the bull market, it's the key things I point. I mean, we had the epic thing of Trump switching.

we had the ETFs kick in and of course I have it and now we're all finding out certainly with the year now that the performance if you had sold anything from NASDAQ or stock market and bought anything in cryptos you are just getting hammered on a risk adjusted basis so that's not going to change that's going to resonate for a long time so I don't think this bullmark is going to start for a while now let's look tilted over to a short term to a trade I do want to point out one fact that I just published again this morning we've only He had two down years for the S&P 500 since 2008. And just one of the my favorite leading indicators is the ounces of gold per one Bitcoin. Everything, that time that's gone down hard. The two years was 2018 and 2022, the stock market was down. So that indications tell me we're due for a down year from the stock market. Now, obviously, having it happened this year would be a crash. That's not expected.

But we'll just look at the trade here. one little trade is on the week now, almost everything's down, but the stock market popped up on the week. That's great. If it can stay up absolutely fine. It's good indication. Even crypto's maybe you'll catch up a little bit, but I just look at it as a former trader. If it ends down in the week, that's a go with short, maybe in SBY and long and TLT. Maybe. I just look at that as the next trader. I'm keeping my heads up for that. Overall, in the crypto market, This shift happened, let's not forget when people talk about 2020. We only heard about the stuff that was bad after the tide went out.

It's the tide had to go out first. Prices drive everything. That's the lessons of Charlie D. I learned from working with him in the trading pits. He's dead now, but he was in market wizards. The prices, all that matters. So that's the key thing to remember. That could happen, and it just started on one day, Ock.

October 10th. We saw who was wearing the clothes as a tie-d-want. So here's a key thing I think's going to happen into the end year. Now, if the stock market can stay resilient, fine, cryptos might stabilize. But overall, I'm looking at the signal with the Bitcoin being up a third on a year, and now down 4% is an indication of that could easily happen in the stock market. Hopefully not. But this leading indicator is what I'm worried about for everything. and maybe get lucky, but overall, I think this is the things that I pointed out in cryptos, the professionals are in this space, realize what's happening is, I know Dave doesn't like what I mentioned, but there is an unlimited supply of these things.

There's massive hubris, there's silliness, and you've got to just purge that. I think the purge has started, so once we get rid of some of them, once we get things like, you know, some of these silly coins down to zero, that'll be time to bottom. And I don't think that's going to be for a long time. And hopefully it'll be suddenly right and gradually. Well, the one thing I will say that's interesting here is the biggest difference that the ETFs have done and Bitcoin has done and having people like Matt Hogan and his team out and obviously Black Rock's team out, educating financial advisors is in previous bull runs when

Bitcoin starts moving up and you talk to normal people about it. And they say, oh, you're in crypto. Yeah, I got into that doggie coin. In fact, Scott, you got into crypto. Dogecoin was your first true love, right? And you always talk about that. I think that newer people who are moving into the space, who are buying it slower and et cetera,

that's not true. This is kind of a big deal. And you know, if you remember earlier this year, Mike, on one of our earlier shows, I think probably that the January, January, one of the first ones. I said, my hope is that we will start seeing, you know, a sorting mechanism in the market where coins that have value will outperform coins that don't. And, you know, people, and I think that that's actually happening. Now, of course,

it's happening on the downside, not on the upside, but, you know, whatever. You know, I think that is an essential thing that has to take, that has to take place. But Bitcoin is separate from everything else. I mean, Nick Carter had a really good post about it this morning where he basically said all these people who like to dance on Bitcoin's graves and saying that, yeah, well, my coin will be okay. Don't understand that if you expect, if Bitcoin does fail, don't expect anytime soon for the world to trust any internet money. And it's not wrong. I got to point out one thing. You missed it. The power of the statement. The market. are proving that bitcoin is not different you can dispute that all you want but i'm sorry when you're

running peas and elves and you're wrong or long you're losing money because everything else is going down but maybe you're in your world is different you might be able to say bitcoin different but i'm sorry on my statement it's it's it's the same if all coins go down the whole space goes down everything's going And within 30% of its all-time high, most of the all-coins that you're talking about are 70-80% below their all-time high. So I don't know what I said that was incorrect. I mean, did I phrase it badly, Scott? I mean, you tell me. It's just the Bitcoin's different thing is that resonated at the peak.

But on the way down, I'm just saying you probably should be careful with that one because I do think I'll make the same. Call I made in 2008. It was going to lose a zero. I was 70% right, 30% wrong. It only got to 3,000 from 10,000. Same call now. I still think you can go back to 10,000. And that's with the normal correction in the stock market having a down year, maybe

this next year. Who knows how much down? But just a normal down year. We haven't seen that in a while. I mean, you buy $50,000 or even $30,000 options on Bitcoin for literal pennies. And if you really believe that, I think that you should feel free to do so. it'll be a donation but go ahead I mean so just to make it clear

I'm I'm but you're right about one thing if Bitcoin fails it'll go there it's not a failure it's just a normal correction in a high speculative asset that's highly auto-correlated with a lot of competition that's a 92% yeah

draw down from the top there's nothing normal about that's dead just leave it at that that's dead that's exactly my point I mean, Dan, you have your hand. Yeah, Mike, Dan Spooler here. I read your comments around, you know, Bitcoin may have hit that 200-day trend, or it cracked, rather. My question is, in the world that we live in now, the Trump administration, if he does proceed and these $2,000 tariff dividends get approved, I don't think it's going to happen this year.

It's too late. But in next year, prior to the midterms, which is a real possibility. how will that play out and will be similar to what we saw in 2020 with the retail aping in with the stimulus checks? Would that do anything for the price? Obviously, it's bullish, but they're gimmicks. I mean, it's kind of sounds similar to the Bitcoin Reserve thing. Most Republicans are pushing back on it. We all know it's really a dumb idea. It's great to get votes. But it's a sad thing. He's using these gimmicks now, Therese. So he saw what happened in the late, recent elections,

and he knows here's part of the macro lose. The number one issue has become affordability in inflation. A top thing that's supporting inflation is a risk assets. Cryptos are part of it. Stock market, it's highest stock market cap to GDP in 100 years. That's boosting inflation. That's hurting all the constituents and people who are rich like him, and hurting the average.

average 55% of people in this country who are wage earners. So it was part of the lose-lose. That's my point is the Fed is starting easing and bond yields are going up. This is we've reached a potential lose-lose that started when the Fed eased a lot for the 1987 crash. And to me, crypto is the tip of the iceberg. They're leading the way. Microstratities probably the tip of the tip, it's probably a little bit oversawold.

But it's telling you where things are going and maybe it's wrong. And then the key thing is when people rope in, oh, it's, you know, the market's fine thing. I just never seen a year. I'm, you know, when you're silly like me and you sold out of all risk assets and only focus on gold and treasuries at the end of the beginning of the year, you should be losing. Yet golds have never seen a year like this. Something's, this is mattering. But all those other things, their gimmicks are silly, 50-year mortgages.

Why focus on gimmits? Focus on helping the fundamentals. getting inflation way down and a simple way to do that, would just say if we had a simple 10 to maybe 20% correction in the stock market, I can virtually guarantee you that mortgage rates would go from 6 to 5, the 10% deal would go down to 3, the price of gasoline would go from 3 to 2, almost everything would drop, we would stabilize and reshort, and Bitcoin would drop easily towards, you know, drop easily 50% easily.

but that's obviously a hypothetical thing is we haven't had a down year only two since in stocks since 2008 and that's my point is we're overdue for that kind of stuff and in a year after or when gold's up

the best year since 1979 maybe it's coming near but all this be careful gimmicks it's just the gimmicks I get the thesis and I was having a discussion with someone else on you know talking about the need for a stock market crash to get inflation down.

And we could talk about the mechanism for that. But if that were true, why didn't we see that in March or April when it was down substantially more than 10%. It was the sharpest recovery ever from almost 20% correction, which means it's typically near the end of the boom market. It doesn't have enough time. And I'm not talking about a crash. I'm talking to stuff that used to be normal.

Dave, you've been a long enough to see drawdowns and equities that stay down for a while. I'm talking about normal reversion. And that's my point is we've just had normal reversion in highly respect to digital assets. All this has been one third correction. It's not a thing. Is there anything normal in your career of a government where our deficit is so large and our tax receipts? and our deficit could spin out of control because what you're saying effectively is you're you be accepting three to four trillion dollar deficits if in fact there was a sustained

stock market down because you didn't have there were no capital gains to be taxed right so i win i don't want a debate i'll just point out what's what's happening in in japan and china are multi-deficits and deficit spanning the fiscal monetary stimulus, that's exponential what you're seeing right now in the U.S., particularly in Japan in the last 30 years in China right now. And my point is there's only one thing that matters now is the U.S. stock market has to go up. That's why I look at it as a trade just this week. If we end up in the red on the week, that's a go-to-go-with trade, I think, because it's just

getting started and just be following cryptos. you know, maybe just will never change and markets will never change. And that's what you just saw in cryptos. It was wonderful. The silliness of the last few months was silly to see, but it's like, I always think to myself, my

gosh, is human nature ever going to change? You just tell me to sell. Okay, it took a while. Now it's like, okay, people are worried about it going now, but look at the time a year. You had a one-third rally in in crypto as a beginning year. Now you're getting stopped out and you're in negative territory. You think it's going to recover from

good luck. I look at it as I think people are realizing it's over. But for the macro big picture, just refer to China. What's what are they doing right now? Death's debt to GDP is 300%. Money supplies running two to three times what's in the U.S. right now. And yet they have PPI for the last 47 years a month. It's been negative. and Steve, but I see Dan, Pam, but I think it was a shadow hand. I mean, I just, we're going to have this conversation on Monday. I really don't want to, like, force everyone to listen to the exact same thing, you know, we talk about.

But, you know, I saw, you know, Rudo, I saw you had your hand up on 100%, so obviously you're in the, in the bear camp, you know, from what Mike was saying. Yes, I have to, I have to agree with, with, with, everything Mike is saying at this stage. I've got a level-headed way of looking at this and just take things level by level. Certain key levels that shouldn't be lost has been lost. And 100K, which was your best friend for support,

is now going to be resistant. And so where we're at right now, there's no sign for any bullishness. We're in an imbalance. So statistically, this is the area where bounce should occur or a little bit of a relief rally depends on how you would look at there's still arguments for 150 i doubt it's plausible uh but we'll take if if everything is bearish on the t-a side i would imagine it's just going to migrate down to 75 scott that 75

by sounds good i was i was liking the tweet this morning yeah i mean if it gets there i'm Really, really excited. I'm excited no matter how low it goes at the opportunity to continue to buy because I have a long-term view on it. It's kind of the point. I'm not afraid of a bear market. If I have money, I want to buy Bitcoin at a lower price than a higher price. It seems ridiculous to want to buy at 126 if there's a chance I can buy it 75, right? Yeah.

if you're bullish you actually have to be bearish because you need to sell to buy more when it's going to be cheaper this is a you know if you're bullish it's time to sell you know to wait for the for the discount um yeah i can't see all the guests so dave any any i think that the both the most important question really is because we talk around these things and you got to pin it down. So if you think that the U.S. stock market is massively overextended, and there's good reason to believe that. I mean, I'm not discounting at all. I mean, I think that corporate profits are doing extraordinarily well, but I think that the government kind of needs to fix the, if they want to win the midterms. I've got to do something about the K-shaped nature of the economy, and that would

imply sacrificing corporate profits a little bit to help out, you know, wage growth, right? You know, and you do that, and then all of a sudden that would expose the what's going on in the stock market, as Mike puts it, and he's right, the market cap compared to GDP is at historic levels, like absolutely historic, which tells you that you could have a 40% correction and you'd still actually be on the high side of market cap to GDP. So when you take a look at that, that's a very scary situation to be in. It could be like the roaring 20s, right? And if that breaks, the problem is that the country and the world economy really is so debt-laden that they might blithely tosses off the world, the stock market can't afford to go down or we'd be in trouble,

but that's the reason. It's because you have a major debt spiral. Now, what is that? That's fourth turning level stuff in terms of the collapse of a Fiat system that is definitely long in the tooth, right? And if you think about what is the use case that most Bitcoiners really care about, it's hedging against the collapse of the Fiat system. It is not trading like that not even slightly that is true but well i mean i guess you can make an argument that gold gold gold is which is why i'm more bullish on gold than you are and and that a fact that you know and it's true i am i think that gold that there's no i don't think four thousand is i think four thousand is flipping to support more than resistance and it it's getting itself ready for another

major run and you think that it got over extended up here so okay well we're different there but it is it is a very interesting situation that you look at and so that's why i i come back to bitcoin is different than crypto because a lot of crypto are basically they're not stocks because they don't have you know they don't have the same sort of you're not ownership but it's still tech right? A lot of crypto is tech. And if tech is overvalued in general, crypto will be the leading edge going down faster than the companies that are going to go down with it, because frankly, the companies will sell the crypto that they own. Right. So, you know, if in fact you're going

to have that nightmare scenario, that's true. Now, I personally don't think the nightmare scenario is going to happen because I think they're going to be able to extend and pretend for a little bit longer, but we'll see. But that is the risk, and there's no question that that's the risk. Well, let's see get something. I'll just want to give my macro on that. So for the last, maybe less than 10 years, but certainly since 2019, I really got bullish Bitcoin at 5,000. I saw that it was, you know, I've been not a fan of stock market for every minute. But I saw, alpha and gamma here that was a great way to outperform. It worked great. And yeah, I got off the horse a little bit too early last year, but I saw gold is the best place for alpha. Now, when gold

provides health, there's something wrong. Now, I just point out is I have to put on my risk management hat when gold gets the most extended versus most moving averages since the 1979-80 inflation period, you have to back off. And I am completely fearful that this is the beginning. of another 50% drawdown in the equity market. It should be led by cryptos. And if we end up the week down in the stock market, there's another sign that's going to just follow what cryptos did this year.

It's this kind of sit-up that we're in right now. And history all points that way. It's already happened before in many other countries. It's happened in China and the next largest. We're just on the cost. And you got to admit, when you have 25 million coins, switch track nothing. Yeah, let's take out 90% of those, and then there'll be a great bottom.

But in the meantime, it's a great trade environment. Right. Yeah, I would say one of the best things I ever did was get out of the stock market in 2013 throw into projects that I truly believed in, because I, Because I thought that's really safety, right? You know, we all read the white paper and we believed the narrative that government is not being responsible with the currency system and we need a accountable currency system. So I threw into that and then in 2014, 2015, I completely stopped listening to the news. I stopped to listen to all the political news and all the commentary and just realized that it was making my life categorically worse by intaking the news.

Now, for short-term profits and games of trying to sell the top and buy on the bottom, it did not serve me very well, but for sticking to fundamentals and what I believed in, long-term, it served me incredibly well. And I think at the end of the day, it's, you know, if you truly believe that government is smart with money and smart with the currency system and going to continue making things better, then, you know, invest in the governmental system, invest in the traditional system. If you think that they're going to continue to be irresponsible and people are going to run things typically the way they always do into the ground over time, then invest in the hedge that has accountability that is outside of their control. And that's the long-term fundamentals that I'm playing on. And then I just cash out where I need to to live. Yeah, I think that that's, well, that that's, you just described me as well, so that's fine. You know, when you're looking at the market, I mean, you know, the stock market today, yet another really good day, obviously, because of invidia, et cetera. Bitcoin just lost 90,000 Ethereum is well below 3,000.

Our friends at XRP just lost $2.10. And who knows, who knows, it'll be the next thing down. And, you know, they're all excited because all the, all the ETFs, but, you know, we all know how those things go. I mean, the sentiment in large-cap crypto is horrendous. The sentiment in small-cap crypto is even worse. And honestly, what's interesting about that is I agree with Mike. I would love to see most, and by the way, the 21 million things, just stop. And there's like two or three hundred that actually matter.

everything else is stuff on the edges that are no different than calling a baseball card a competitor to the S&P, right? It's the same kind of stuff. I mean, you know, it's cringy stuff that no professionals are dealing with that people can make money because it's greater full theory. And so it's not competition per se. It's just yet another market. It's like those, what are those not beanie babies, the things with the blind boxes? You know, the people are lining up to buy. I mean, it's the same stuff.

I mean, it happens, whether it's on computers or in plushy toys. Anyway, we finally got some hands. So I see Nicholas and then Rudo again. Yeah, I'm just, I just struggle listening to Mike with all the fundamentals that make a lot of sense. But at the same time, you know, being somebody in crypto that's been here since, you know, 2017 and in 2018 bull market that just saw the depths of hell through that time and then witnessing

what certainly felt like the complete collapse of crypto through 2021 and 2022 with all of the news the positive positive news that we would have begged for during those timelines I just can't rectify between what Mike is saying about the possibility of, you know, grander-scale economy collapse with that kind of news and keeping me from being, from being bullish in the long term, right? And so I just, with everything that's happening, with all of the adoption and the same.

signaling from institutions on, you know, crypto being here to stay across, not just Bitcoin, but, you know, stable coin adoption and what that means for the grander market. All of the stuff that Mike is saying just feels like short-term kind of noise, even if it is grander scale corrections, it's just not going to change anything about what I do. or what my longer-term belief is? Well, to be fair, if there's a massive stock market unwind

and a massive problem in the global economy, then money gets vaporized. Money gets vaporized. People are forced to sell stuff in order to live. And that's basically what he's saying. I mean, that pretty much has to happen. So that's why correlations go to one when there's major crashes. But if you don't believe in a major crash,

If you believe in extended pretend, then you know that what's going on now, at least in Bitcoin, where there just is no bid. I mean, you know, we're about to lose $89,000 again. So we back to where we were yesterday. You know, and why did it go up? It went up because of NVIDIA. I mean, what the hell does that have to do with anything? It's just a question of all the news is long-term news with actual no dollars behind it.

I mean, yeah, there are some dollars coming in, but there are people who are. people who are terrified. And when they're terrified, they cash out and they sell the actual bottom. And it's been much less bloody of a bottom than previous bottoms. So, okay, does that mean it as far as to go? Maybe, you know, we might be talking about extreme greed and fear being at extreme fear, you know, three weeks from now. It's possible. It can stay for a long time.

It doesn't tend to do that, but it could be good. And that's what he's saying. anyway yeah yeah and i and i don't know how much of this is going to be kind of like self-fulfilling right because i see a lot of fear not just in you know in crypto but like you know people talking about the i i bubble and and you know all of all of uh you know larger scale fear and how much that's going to just kind of like be a self-fulfilling prophecy here i don't know i don't i don't understand markets as well as as you guys do but i just i i just can't help myself but feel feel bullish and in at the same time kind of hope that there is a downturn so i can buy my coins

a bit cheaper than i can today scott i didn't see who was next i think i think rudo is next i see rudo is the only end i see so yeah i see ryan too also so again so Yeah, I think, Ryan, you had really good points regarding the fundamentals, but I, what I, why I'm siding with Mike so much is that greed needs to get punished at some stage. And the thing with the good fundamentals is, uh, like minded people with the same information are going to make the same conclusion. And the markets are forward looking, which means what happening, what is happening. Today is a result of what we thought was going to happen and what we acted on yesterday. And it's not as small as it is from day to day. It's also from months to month, year to year, those kinds, I think. And from a technical point of view, what we've learned over the years is that, you know, and what we know is that the market doesn't move in the way that we think it should move.

Like in the bare market, good news, it dumps further. and in the in a bull market bad news means nothing so the end of the day is it's not like bitcoin is you know when you look at the risks on this now it's not like it's going on sale meaning you're buying a BMW that's just at a sale price you know if it's going down you have to ask the question why and for how long and and that's how people get punished now the problem now is is being bullish that term. I'm bullish as well. Like I said, to sell Bitcoin at 125,

which I was one of those KOLs, Dave. I said it's time to get up. To sell at 125, it was actually a bullish sign for me because I'm selling so that I can have more to buy back. But the hard thing is, is nobody... I'm not saying anything bad about people who say... No, no, no, I was just...

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do to say to sell when, you know, you see things stalling and buy back later. That's that's perfect swing trading, right? The difference, and in fact, I understand it. I think that the thing that people don't understand about when I talk about, why did I not sell there? It's because of taxes. I didn't want to take, I don't want to take, you know, because I have then a very large hurdle rate. to be right. And generally, that's like the Scott saying he wants to buy Bitcoin

is 75,000, it's 15% away or whatever it is, not quite anymore, but it was this morning. So it's just a hurdle rate thing. But yeah, that makes sense. I mean, selling toward the all time high, which is resistance, especially when it fails there, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. And a lot of smart people said that.

And I have no issue with that. My issue is when you sell, because at that point it was greed, You know, it was very greedy. People, that was, you know, my favorite Mike Mcglonism. Buy and when they're crying, selling when they're yelling. That was selling when they're yelling. Now they're crying. That's the difference.

That's all I'm saying. So the saying is buy when there's blood on the streets as well. But I say, wait until they stop shooting first or else your blood's going to out there. And this is the problem with what we at, you know, being bullish long term, what does it mean? because it's for for for for for for for scott it's a completely different picture because he's i mean i i started crypto i think his account had like 20 000 followers when i when i started looking at crypto way back and this was now years and years ago and i mean just to put the scheme to it now i started with literally almost zero money so i i need to hustle this and and a lot of the

times we draw the lines between fundamentally it's good versus, you know, the technical analysis that points to the risk. It's bad. So Bitcoin has a risk asset is exceptionally bad right now. Fundamentally, it's good, but it's just the time frame where you're at that creates this gray line that makes it hard. And for the sake of not letting somebody that is maybe new into this get their fingers burned because of the fundamentals, which won't change for a good project, be it boom market highs or bear market lows. You know, you can really burn yourself on the way back down, especially if you, if you're overextended. And that's the risk. And that's the problem that we had with the alts as well. There's a lot of people holding onto those coins saying like,

ah, don't worry, there'll be another boom market. I'm just going to wait it out and then I'll get rich. and because the market is forward-looking and the reactions today is because of actions in the past if everybody on this call has bought all the bitcoin coin that's currently available like they said the few that's currently in circulation has been acquired the price literally can only go down because in order for people to access it somebody needs to sell and if everybody wants it bought it, the only next deal is to sell it at a discount, to do something with it. And that's the pain that's probably going to be coming around. Because if everybody is holding on to the million dollar future Bitcoin price

action and for the alt, I mean, I'm over exaggerating. The reality is that those guys first need to be taken out. And maybe, I'm not saying 10K, but maybe the pain needs to be more severe in order for that. to happen and that's the part where the fundamentals for bitcoin probably haven't changed you can still be bullish but on that road probably get wrecked i think your verb tense is wrong but uh given how much you know how many points we know have been sold but the the truth is is and i've said this i think there's probably you know maybe at most were 20 30 percent of the way through the distribution phase of Bitcoin, in which case, yeah, you know, you can easily see what you're saying

could happen. It just doesn't tend to happen in a straight line. Markets don't move in straight lines. I'm betting we're going to see 100. Go first before we see 75, if we see 75. The reality is it has to at some stage stop leading, but the TA is just not giving us anything right now on the daily. nor the weekly to suggest that the bleeding is over.

And gold, I think, is the only any real shining point at the moment. But as soon as we cross that $4,200 level into $4.5, I'm going to treat gold just like I treat Bitcoin for that matter, because then the technicals are basically identical. And I would start worrying about it because then maybe they're. And why is everybody running to go? That's a fair question. I mean, just one key thing to add is we have to add in what's happened in the time of year. This is the time of year GMTFO, get me the heck out, particularly if you start making losses.

And we're doing that, obviously, in cryptos. It's already too late, I think, to expect for a bounce. Also, remember what happened. We had an epic 2024 in crypto election of President Trump, all this. Hugh Bree from the administration, everything. And then we found out what happened, who was when the tide went out a little bit, that the Trump administration is one of the best,

most significant beneficiaries of the price going up. That switched to narrative for a lot of allocators. I mean, there's a lot of people who, pension funds, endowments, who have nothing to do with Trump administration. It means if you're buying cryptos, you're supporting them. Unfortunately, that's what shifted.

But the thing is, yes, I am making the call that the answers have changed, and we are at the beginning of, what really bothered me. I remember seeing this 1999, and people who kept telling me how you have to be for the long haul in 2006, housing prices never go down. There's so many people just fully expect you have to hold the one by Bitcoin. I think once that gets shaken out, it will. It might take to go down $10,000. Once that gets shaken out, it'd be time to buy again.

Let's all talk about what happened to the Internet stocks, people, point down on Amazon. You got to, and even to Apple, when people hated it, when it was going to go under, that's the time to buy. This is still, this beginning of, I think, the trend in that direction. Great English. I can't replicate that. Nicely said. He's eloquent, and he's been here a long time. Go ahead.

Brian. So, the one thing I would add, though, too. Two things. You know, I was that guy for many years that held a lot of alt coins all the way down to zero. I can't tell you how many wallets I still have from 2013. Me too. Mine are still for nothing. So much money.

I even have them from 2020. So good job. Only being 80. Yeah. So there's that. You know, like I've been there. I've done that. I've got the scars from holding these alt coins and actually believing in.

projects that, you know, we're just a lot of hype. So that's one, like, you know, don't forget to take profits when you're holding these alt coins. Two is I'm seeing a huge trend and a huge kind of undercurrent towards stable coins and this idea of just the digital Fiat token where, you know, banks be able to hold crypto assets is probably pushing towards stable coins, which are going to underscore U.S. treasuries and probably start

being more of what we'll know as the AI agent internet where AI systems interact with each other through stable coins and authorized wallets. But that is just another rendition of a human driven fiat system. So the fundamentals of Bitcoin are still there. And anyone that knows anything about power grids and AI's need for electricity and Bitcoin's stabilization of power grids, the long-term fundamentals of the Bitcoin network staying proof of work and using electricity to counterbalance AI is still very much there. So as we see AI demand, ebb and flow,

compute demand, admin flow, electricity on these grids are going to need Bitcoin to balance it. And as DFI starts moving more towards stablecoins and starts leaving the Ethereum ecosystem or leaving one of these other ecosystems, it's still driven by government and human fallacies of printing more money and giving out more assets than they actually have. The same banking system that has driven us into economic messes in the past is still going to be behind these new stablecoin systems moving in the future. So my money is still on Bitcoin long term and staying focused on the, you know, once again and knowing that humans will eff up the system when it comes to stable coins and fee yacht and if they can print more than they actually have. So any token that has accountability involved and a real real world use case for infrastructure, I think is a sound to play long term. I know we're like over time at this point, which I didn't even realize I've been enjoying the conversation.

Zach, you jumped up on stage. I know if you were just joining generally, if you had specific comments on what we were discussing, but I'd love to give you the opportunity before we go. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll make some general comments and then one specific one. The general comments are, you know, listen to the conversation about altcoins. Like, I think there is just this truth at this point that Bitcoin has found some amount of product market fit as digital gold. I think that's hard to deny at this point if you look at who holds it and why. I think stable coins have found some modicum of product market fit abroad. as, you know, easier ways to get access to dollars.

You just need a phone because you're using an open blockchain network. You don't need a bank account. You don't need to take the risk of holding physical U.S. cash. That just is better than what was there before. And in the U.S. for international payments, if you're someone who regularly sends international wires, stable coins are just a much better solution than that at this point. And the rest of the stuff is speculative. And a lot of it is vaporware and, you know, meme coins were always stupid.

But, like, we'll have to see what the rest of that technology brings. And I do think that a lot of the stuff needs to be repriced. But it doesn't mean that the rest of crypto is inherently doomed. It's just we need a better incentive structure where people build things of value and not just dump a token. But the idea that we're going to 10K at this point in Bitcoin's adoption, I think is just a misunderstanding of the market and the institutional bid that, like, you just can't, like, it's there.

see it like I don't I don't know how we get to 10k in the specific I don't know if you discuss this but we had Warren Davidson come out this morning with I think is a great piece of legislation called the Bitcoin for America Act that if enacted would first it would codify the strategic Bitcoin Reserve executive order into law in a way that couldn't be changed by a future administration most significantly it would allow Americans to pay their federal taxes in Bitcoin without any capital gains. That's a pretty big deal. There are all sorts of ways you could structure inheritance and minimize your taxes using that if you think about that for a little bit. And then third, as a matter of law, again, in a way that couldn't be changed by the next

administration, any Bitcoin that is paid through this capital gains exemption needs to be held in the strategic reserve for at least 20 years. So, you know, just got announced today. We'll see what kind of support it gets, but I think this is a great step in the right direction from a policy perspective. Love that and summarize as well of a couple of the conversations that we had before you joined. Dave, anything else before we go? No, I think that, you know, we have what we have, you know, I feel like that, that the famous movie, what we have here is a failure to communicate, right?

We have technical analysis and we have fundamentals. Now, eventually, one, we know which one wins, and we know which one wins in the short term. So in the short term, we're in a technical world, and in the long term, real value will show out. And when you talk about crypto, there's a lot of things that have no value that still have value, that still have, you know, high market caps. And when you talk about Bitcoin, I think that would, and several other projects in crypto as well, you have potential real value. value and we'll see how it all plays. I mean, the fact is that when someone says, well, I believe in the fundamentals or I believe in the long term, but I'm not buying because of the technicals, okay, you're welcome to do that. I mean, in fact, you've done really well in certain markets as traders. The ones, as Mike Alfred always points out, people who make real wealth are the ones who understand where the fundamentals are and take action at that time. That doesn't mean you smash buy it or do stupid stuff like that, but it does mean that you're aware of where you're positioning yourselves. And it really is that simple. I mean, I know it sounds dumb, but it's not. You know,

it just you have to understand where it is. I mean, if you're getting giddy about excitement when everybody is talking about buying and you buy, you often are right for some period of time, days, hours, weeks even. But rarely is that their best entry point. Similarly, when you get panicky and you're selling or you pounce on it, it may feel good to have sold it because maybe because you didn't get the, you didn't sell the, you know, very rarely do you sell the absolute bottom. But once again, weeks and months later, you generally don't feel too good about it. I think it's as simple as that. Sometimes you panic's first, pan is best. That's true. Panic Thinking first, I agree with.

That is right. But panicking first, if you look at some of these results, you're talking 40, 50% ago. Well, just the time we've been on, I know we're over. The S&P 500 was up for a while. Mini's about on the week, about 3 tenths percent. Now it's down 5.10%. So it's only wiped out about a percent from Wednesday's peak. You know, so at Bitcoin was 91 or 2, now it's 88.

I'm afraid. this could be the start of a crash. I mean, a real crash. What's a crash? It's normal reversion. Oh, it could be. I mean, you know, look, I remember, as I think I told you, Mike, I'm writing my, I've just written and I'm revising the crash of 87, so I've had to go back and dig out all the things that happened that day in the week before, or et cetera. I mean, there's lots of reasons to believe that there could be issues here. The one thing that we have to understand is if it does happen, the response, we know what will happen. Just remember,

Bitcoin dropped from $10,000 to $3,000 in the COVID crash. And then what happened after when they started injecting that crash? What outperforming that's the point. So if you really believe in a crash, I'm not saying buy Bitcoin, be ready to be ready to bounce. That's what you're doing. That's a binary model.

You've got to get through that first iteration first. okay but you have to have a plan yeah a plan is my plan is still overweight gold but now I'm worried about that so just get out of everything okay well you know fear is the mind killer as Frank Herbert said

anyway yeah well better to be fearful when others are greedy be afraid and safe than to be yes I understand that I get your part anyway Scott I think that was there something else? I think Mike and I and you can continue this on Monday. Run it back.

Run it back on Monday. All right, everybody. By the way, Scott, are you in on Monday? Yeah, I'm in on Monday. Yeah, I'm in on Monday. Same as me. I'm off the rest of the week. Okay, yeah, cool.

Yep, exactly. All right, I try it really hard not to miss that one, but every once while it happens. All right, guys, that's all we got for you today. Thank you for joining Crypto Town Hall. Thank you to our amazing panel and to all of you for listening. we will see you guys tomorrow. Thanks. Bye.