The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Hits $98K! Will $100K Finally Break Today? | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

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Good morning, everybody. It is 1019 a.m. on Thursday, November 22nd, and Bitcoin has hit $98,000. All of those who were here over the summer and said that it was impossible for Bitcoin to hit $100,000 or come close in 2024. Well, it's only November and we just got about 2% shy of that happening. Looks like the Standard Chartered and Tom Lee's and the us's of the world were correct, and it was totally possible. It's a quality reminder how fast and furiously Bitcoin can move when it does and why you never want to be sidelined waiting for an entry. If you look back, the biggest moves on Bitcoin always happen 10 to 20 days of the year. The rest is usually basically sideways chop or downside action.

So you should take this as a reminder that this is not an asset that you want to be sidelined and playing around trying to get the best entry on because when it goes up, it goes up fast, very, very, very fast. So $98,000 here. We have an article that ETH BTC at its lowest point in four years. This is from Crypto Slate. I just tweeted about it. Totally wrong. I love the narrative because Bitcoin and crypto travel in four-year cycles, as we know. So if ETH is at a four-year low versus Bitcoin, and we have a four-year cycles, as we know. So if ETH is at a four-year low versus Bitcoin, and we have a four-year cycle, what does that mean to you for the future of Ethereum versus

Bitcoin, at least for the cycle? Seems pretty obvious. But the article saying that 0.033 was the low for four years, that reached the low roughly of March of 25. Last I checked, 21, excuse me, last I checked, that's not four years ago, the low actually for Bitcoin ETH pair was on Monday, the 21st of December of 2020. In the last four years, and that was at point 02275 or 0.034. So much, much lower if you guys are looking at those articles. But either way, let's dive into the actual market right now. Wick, we obviously had a chat yesterday, kind of jokeoked that all coins always get wrecked on Wednesdays before we do our shows on YouTube just to keep it interesting for us.

But we do have this big Bitcoin move up to 98,000. And right after that happened, we actually saw a bit of a drop in dominance and a nice little move to the upside on Ethereum. I think there's a lot of people who have said hey listen once we get to 100 we can get an alt season do you think that we're starting to see potentially something like that stirring yeah look i i i do think that it's close but um i think what's on everyone's mind is you know what's going to happen at 100k and i think that needs to resolve and i do think there's a good chance that at 100k you know

maybe we get a little bit of pushback and some sideways action right trying to push past that 100k barrier maybe maybe that's the time that ults wake up you know so that's kind of what i'm thinking it's what everything lines up with uh i'll be very surprised if we do just kind of melt through 100k with all this chatter around it so yeah yeah, man, just paying attention to the charts and, you know, being ready. This run has been absolutely insane. Foles, I mean, how are you viewing this right now? You're obviously trading day in, day out pretty consistently. What are you doing here?

How are you positioning? Yeah, hey, Scott. I mean, first of all, just from a market POV, it's interesting to see particularly how alts have fared recently. I think looking at sentiment, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the market was dead and crypto was over.

And I think that is indicative of how underexposed people are to BTC and how overexposed they are and have been to underperforming alts. Looking at BTC dominance, it's just been on a crazy tear. Basically, for two and a half years, for like 800 days or something like that, it's just been up only. But that's kind of no different to past cycles. I know this cycle truly is different because of institutional involvement. So there is an element of really something that has never been there before this time around. I appreciate that.

But even looking at, you know, in 2020, that all-time high break, it was pretty much the same you know btc and alts went up together initially um and then around november uh btc started to to to run off on its own btc dominance started to to tear up and you know sentiment at the time was such that you know maybe this time is different maybe this time is going to be btc season only and alts are never going to get a run uh however of course that wasn't to be a few months later. BTC dominance kind of topped out. BTC started consolidating and alts got a crazy run, as we all know. And that coincided with obviously ETH getting a run and ETH BTC kind of pumping up to what we now know is kind of range high. But yeah, it's funny to look at the market the last particularly the last few

days lots of meme coins went you know down something like minus 40 minus 50 percent off the highs you had uh plenty of other olds doing minus 20 minus 30 percent daily candles um while btc was putting in new all-time high after new all-time high. But I do think that so far, we have nothing to suggest that this time will be any different to previous cycles. I do think that eventually BTC dominance will top out. Bitcoin will consolidate, whether it's at 100k, 100k plus, sub 100k. And money will rotate into alts. Alts will have their run. ETH BTC will have its run. ETH will have its run. And I do think we see a quote unquote, I hate using this word, but we will see an alt season. Yeah, it might be a different looking alt season. I'm taking a look right now at Bitcoin dominance chart just for reference when we talk about four year cycles and when altcoins are expected to move. There's been so much, I think people are just very disillusioned that it's only been select all coins that have outperformed Bitcoin and that the Ethereums and such have

not moved yet. But taking a look at the chart, I'm looking at Bitcoin dominance right now. The very top of Bitcoin dominance in 2020 at the end of the cycle there, yeah, the high was basically 73.63%, where it's 60.8% for reference. So Bitcoin dominance is a different market. There's more altcoins, but Bitcoin dominance was almost 74% in December. And it topped a huge move to the upside and then topped at the basically Christmas of December of 2020. So important to remind people that as much as we've gotten ahead of ourselves with an earlier all-time high because of ETFs on Bitcoin, altcoins are still doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing at this point in the cycle, which is getting wrecked by

Bitcoin until Bitcoin kind of chills and you get the choice. So we're still a month out from, doesn't mean it has to be the same, but we're a month out from when dominance topped in the last cycle. And I think that's an important point of reference for people to have. And dominance obviously tends to top out at a lower point, make a sort of a lower high each cycle. Going back to 2016, Bitcoin dominance basically was kind of almost similar, you know, but it was a little earlier. I guess it was, yeah, right in December of 16. If you're an altcoin trader, I would look at the total three chart and get excited about it because it looks fantastic. It looks amazing. It

looks so much better now than it did two weeks ago. It really looks like it wants to clear the 2021 high and kind of put us into price discovery on that chart. As many of you know, total market cap without BTC and ETH. So it's effectively the altcoin market cap. And it just looks insanely bullish. It really does look like it wants to put in a higher high on that chart and really take us into all season territory.

And also importantly, if you look at just the total market cap, we've surpassed 3 trillion. That was the top of the entire last bull run and we haven't even started yet. So the market cap of the total crypto space has surpassed about 3.2 trillion. Now, 3 trillion was the top of the entire last cycle in surpassed about $3.2 trillion now. $3 trillion was the top of the entire last cycle in 2021. So I think a lot of optimism as to what may likely be coming for the cycle. Dave, how are you looking at this at the moment? Obviously, we've pushed very, very far on Bitcoin. MicroStrategy has pushed even further. Any froth here? Or do you think this is normal sort of cyclical

movement? Well, it's not cyclical, it's secular. And that's why I don't think it's froth. I mean, I think that we have to wait to see who the final nominees are. Obviously, there's, you know, this battle royale going over the Treasury. But if you end up with a Treasury secretary who publicly supports or at least privately supports the lummis bill uh if you think this is crazy you're it's not i mean keep in mind in in i i remember the the run-up in 17 quite well i remember because there was the china fud incident which took bitcoin down 40 and then it effectively uh you know went up two and a half times from the lows just to get to 5 000 and we saw the blow off top in december which was 4x you're calling a move crazy

that the sum total of the entirety of the move over multiple months is 50 so you know it is entirely possible that there is craziness potentially ahead, but it really depends upon the narrative. If, in fact, we are going to end up with some sort of strategic reserve in Bitcoin, then all bets are off and that is not remotely cyclical. Now, as it pertains to alts, alts are driven by the profit taking of people in Bitcoin. Oh, OK, Bitcoin's run its course. Let's see where else I can make money in the casino. But when runs up are driven by spot buying from Bitcoin, the question is, is how much money is going to get taken off the table from DGens to invest in alts? And that's why you get this sort of cycle. I don't think this time will be particularly different. I think it'll be similar.

You and I tend to agree on that. But I think you're right. I think that's out. I think until we actually see where bitcoin starts to really stall and i don't mean stall for an hour or half a day i mean stall for weeks uh at that point that's when you get that tipping point people are like okay let's move to the new hot thing simon yeah i say um you know people like to say that this time is different because we've got institutional. But no, we've always had this time is different at every cycle. So the first cycle, it was, all right, we've got a bunch of people like Richard Branson and people like that buying and then courting all of the Bitcoin people. And, you know, then it was whether it be, you know, going through

the, oh, we've got all these companies like Telegram that are going to be raising finance through ICOs. And that's going to make its way back into Bitcoin. And then it was, oh, we've got El Salvador makes it legal tender. Oh, we've got MicroStrategy. Oh, we've got BlackRock. So it's always the same thing. Essentially's just because we're now at a significantly higher market cap and significantly higher liquidity, we're just having bigger and bigger people that would be attracted to asset classes that have that market cap and have that liquidity. So to me, nothing has changed. It's the same story that we've seen all along. And it makes it feel silly for having these

conversations every single day when Bitcoin just does exactly what it's supposed to do on the four year cycle. Right. We were here in March. Dave, you and I talked about it all the time saying, hey, it looks like we're going to be topped. It's going to be a boring summer. This is the having takes six to eight months after the having and then Bitcoin will break out. And here we are. Was there even another conversation that needed to be had? If you guys look, I actually just while we were talking, just so you can see it visually, I tweeted the Bitcoin dominance chart and showed the top in 2016, 2020. Spoiler, it was in December of both of those years that Bitcoin dominance kind of reached a peak. I put a vertical line sort of just arbitrarily in December of 2024. If it follows the same four-year cycle, then you can expect, I think, altcoins to move once again.

Dwayne, when you're listening to all of this, obviously you're more of a macro TradFi guy. Do we sound like a bunch of lunatics talking about four-year cycles and altcoins? How do you frame all of this when you're looking at the crypto market? Good morning. Well, it is interesting. Like, like well the comments thus far are interesting because it it does often work out like this where

you're looking at charts or you're looking at some sort of imbalance in markets whether that's supply and demand or there's an underlying value come to parole thesis. I see that happening, you know, with Bitcoin in real time. I think for people on the outside looking in, so to speak, is the political side of it where we're getting, you know, we're getting whispers of a Bitcoin czar. We're getting, you know, definitely the implementation and the welcoming of Bitcoin to an administration. On the higher, you know, on the top levels here, you know, when you have an environment here where we have geopolitical tensions, whether that's UK, Russia, you know, you have this downturn struggle in China with the expectation of more stimulus.

I mean, I'm thinking at least another trillion dollars to make to get China moving here. You know, when you have an incoming administration and well, you know, with either side here, you know, you're looking at upwards of, say, seven trillion, you know, of spending here. You know, with the tax cut and that revenue might may or may not get replaced. So if you look at these, I guess, from a tech perspective, you could almost look at it like it's a ladder. In this case, you're on a ladder and you're, you know, a thousand feet up in the air here with Bitcoin. So say one of those tailwinds gets taken away, one of the rungs gets taken away. You can still move up the ladder. You might pause because of, you know, the height that you've reached here, the momentum.

But, you know, you can still see the growth here in the upward trajectory moving so i think especially uh with the new administration and some of the macro effects and the things that are happening on the world even if there is a a pause i think we're going to see further progress from here that's fair to say that maybe we're still early. I mean, Panos, how are you viewing all this? Yeah, I think we're still pretty early in this run. I do see it going on for probably another year or so, as long as there's no black swan events that happen. And as far as, like, the the dominance i think now that we're approaching 100k because that's such a psychological number for people i think a lot of traders are looking

at that and thinking right now now it's time to flip some of this bitcoin into ethereum as the ratio as you mentioned is so low the eef bTC ratio. And that's what we saw this morning as BTC approached 98k. Dominance dropped off really sharply and Ethereum really started to move. And I think that's probably going to continue for a bit. I do think Bitcoin is going to have another push up, but I think it's time for Ethereum to play catch up. It's been lagging this whole cycle. And I think a big part of the reason that Ethereum was lagging was A, BTC and everything that's been going on with Bitcoin ETFs politically. And then B, Solana has been taking a lot of the market share because of meme coins and pump.fund degen trading. So I think it's time for Ethereum to catch up.

And I think this is probably the start of it. Absolutely agree there. Fred, in your very legal opinion as a lawyer, what do you think of crypto prices? I think that this time is different, but in substantially the same way. So we always have the four-year cycles, which I'm a believer in, but you never quite know what the narrative or the trigger point is going to be that drives the cycle. And I think here, in my opinion, and I know you brought this up on your morning show today, I just think it's undeniable that it's the legal push to make this a global asset.

And that begins, you know, whether you like it or not in the U.S. And so we've just seen explosively positive news coming from the transitioning administration that, you know, it is not only going to be crypto friendly, but, you know, crypto is going to be a policy and a policy, you know, at the upper end of what's going to be in the minds of the people in the administration. And just as an example of why that's so huge. And, you know, when Dave talks about you don't even understand if it's priced in, if there's a Bitcoin strategic reserve, is that there's a documentary that is coming out just today from Fruition Films. It's called Rigged from the Start. And it's a great film, not just because I'm in it, but, you know, John Deaton's in it as well. And it shows

that back in the, you know, run up to the 2020 run, the people in the Ethereum side, you know, whether you agree with it or not, they started going as hard as in the Ethereum side, you know, whether you agree with it or not, they started going as hard as they could to get, you know, the regulatory clarity for their asset. And, you know, FTX did it the same way. He just ended up blowing up the system when Sam Bankman-Fried got caught. But you kind of wonder why nobody else in crypto land decided to legally buy whatever, you you know politicians they could but the point being is that when you were you know everybody was trying to do these side deals and it it just kind of was you know hit and miss and now if that's happening for everybody

and everybody's going to get to come up on that upswing you're just going to see some insane explosion of growth and i think it's going to be way bigger than we've seen in any of the last four cycles. I 10 degree Simon, go ahead. Yeah, on the Ethereum side, I think we're going to see a real big, you know, whatever the correction looks like short term, but once Bitcoin, you know, really breaks out above 100k, and Ethereum continues to lag. I think you've got to hit that peak capitulation event. So you've had all these people that over the last year have been thinking, oh, God, I should have held Bitcoin.

I should have held Bitcoin. I should have converted it. And I think you're just going to see a mass capitulation of people saying, right, I got to swap my Ethereum for Bitcoin. And at that stage, then I think you're going to start to see, you know, whatever that capitulation level is, at that stage, you're going to see a wave of announcements into the Trump administration where people realize, all right, BlackRock is going to be able to stake and the all the ETFs are going to be able to stake and all right, BlackRock's going to be able to stake and all the ETS are going to be able to stake. And all right, they're building their tokenized exchange on top of Ethereum.

And we're getting all of this tokenized treasuries. We're getting all of this clarity around DeFi. We're going to get clarity around stable coins. And I don't think anyone at the institutional level that's going to be building this next wave of financial products will be building them on top of anything other than Ethereum. Or it's going to be at the, which I don't think we're ready for yet, where Bitcoin is actually ready for these types of products. So I think we're going to have a big wave and that will drive the outperformance of Bitcoin with Ethereum. And then all of the institutionals will be looking at, okay, how do I put some over?

And then you get this allocation towards Ethereum and these two asset costs is what I'd be predicting. Yeah, that makes sense. Dave, what are your thoughts on Ethereum at the moment? Weirdly, I actually almost completely agree with Simon. That's been my thesis all along. What I don't know is if other blockchains, whether it be Solana or newer ones like Constellation or things like Cosmos for various reasons, are going to eat into that institutional adoption wave. But that's really the question. And I think that that's not a pithy answer. It requires a deep dive and knowledge of what's going on. But the general notion that there will be layer one demand for staked coins that are going to be used by the institutions as they move into tokenization

in a serious way, I think is exactly the same thesis that I've had all along and will continue to have. Simon, you kind of talked about, obviously, we've had this explosion of Bitcoin layer two, then building on Bitcoin. A lot of that was enabled, obviously, by Taproot. You alluded to the fact that it's sort of behind, but do you think that that can catch up and gain enough market share that it could actually have a meaningful impact on all these other layers, layer ones and layer twos, where they're building? Because if this lags and takes some time for those things to become popular, Bitcoin could catch up and building on Bitcoin. Yeah, I think so. But I've also said the same ever since we started talking about colored coins and 2012 era. And we're still not there. There is a you know, there's a bunch of venture capital

investment that have been going into people building these types of stuff. I do think, you know, Ethereum proved the market that there is massive demand. And I do think the supremacy of Bitcoin as an asset class and immutability relative to other things is going to drive a demand. But, you know, I'm kind of scarred from just having thought that all of this would happen on Bitcoin and 2024, and we're still waiting. And Lightning Network really hasn't got the level of adoption that we would have liked to have seen at this stage.

But I remain optimistic about it. And I do think a lot of it ends up in Bitcoin eventually. I'm just kind of scarred around thinking how long it might actually take and whether we get there pretty soon because it's pretty hard to build this stuff and it does take time. And I've picked a data wizard we've never actually spoken.

Don't know what to call you. I'll call you data wizard. What are your thoughts on this? You want to make me look really bad by still not speaking to me just whatever i'm married i know exactly how this feels you're not going to get me buddy uh wick uh you and i have been talking about this ethereum for a long time buddy uh i mean it's gonna happen right you know you've got the same thoughts as i have which is i honestly honestly, to be quite honest, I expected it to take off earlier. It has not.

In fact, let me pull up the chart real quick. Yeah, it's just kind of been a dead horse, you know, and it's very interesting. You know, I hear all the chatter and we've heard it the whole cycle about Solana flipping Ethereum. And, you know, I think I, I mean, I don't want to say anything, but let's see here. It looks like we're almost at a stage to break out literally the level around 3250 is where you want to break that, that resistance. And it's just not being able to close above there. So, so yeah, Scott, your guess is as good as mine, but it has not woken up and we're getting further and further into the cycle.

I think that if we don't see anything waking up by January, especially by mid-December, I think a lot of people are just going to start giving up and rotating. So I think it gets weaker if we don't see a push by the end of this year, unfortunately. That makes sense. We have a couple of pieces of news. I don't know if you guys saw, but Speak of Solana Bitwise filed for a Solana ETF. So they're obviously not the first, but increasing confidence for ETF issuers to apply for altcoin ETFs, which I think many believe we will see. I think maybe the biggest piece of news, and I discussed this with Noelle Atchison. She kind of brought it more to my attention this morning on YouTube.

According to Bloomberg, President-elect Donald Trump's team is discussing the creation of a dedicated White House position focused on cryptocurrency policy. The role would aim to coordinate policies among federal agencies and engage with industry stakeholders to address issues in the cryptocurrency space. It remains unclear whether this would be a senior White House position or what its specific responsibilities might entail. Now, we had obviously, even in Nashville, Donald Trump allude to a cryptocurrency council of some sort, but basically making it clear that he would listen to the industry and appoint people or listen as advisors who understood the industry and could sort of drive the direction of regulation and policy. But this is even a step above that. I mean,

we've seen, obviously, that he's appointing pro-Bitcoin and pro-crypto people to effectively every agency head. We have Vivek and Elon, obviously, at Doge, but Ludmik at Commerce and RFK and Health and Human Services. So almost everyone who's appointed has been pro Bitcoin. But I think there's been a concern that whoever gets SEC and whoever gets CFTC, there can still be some infighting or lack of communication among different federal agencies, because we know that the government is wildly inefficient. But if we have a single person who is a White House, who's in the White House, and their job is something like crypto czar, to me, this is absolutely massive, huge news. I'm going to once again, throw John Deaton's

name in the hat for that job. Just putting that out there. But somebody who actually coordinates and makes sure that these agencies are working together and speaking to one another for a cohesive policy. How big is this, guys? I mean, Fred, you were giving me the hearts. I know you agree with Deaton. But to me, this is absolutely would be massive. Yeah, I mean, 100%. And I've been hearing rumors that John is being considered and, you know, in full disclosure, those things that I'm hearing are me talking aloud to myself when I'm walking around. But that's how these things get started. So if everybody can just get that rumor train going, we'll be in good hands. No, this is huge because these czars, I mean, if it's a bad guy that's in a czar position, it's really, really bad. But if it's

a good guy, it's great because these roles don't have really defined terms or powers or, you know, remember who the border czar was, you know, for a little bit. So the thing is, is that it's undefined. Rhymes with Mamala Baris. Yeah. And so you, you know, what it is, is if you're the czar, you've got the president's ear and you're in the room with, you know, not just the president and all of his staff, but cabinet members, and you can kind of, you know, extraterritorially float through all these places and say, I mean, I'm not being literal, but you know, let me see your books here at treasury. Let me see your books there. What are you guys doing?

What are the meetings? I want to see the agenda. And so to have somebody in that overarching role, if they're good at it and serious at it is just i mean again it's just one more level that the market's not expecting or pricing in and and it's just if it goes well it's going to be explosive simon how impactful do you think this would be um i guess let's try and use an analogy it's kind of like once el salv Salvador decided it was going to be Bitcoin country, it immediately set up the Bitcoin office. And the Bitcoin office then had a dedicated team and dedicated budget to ensure that it was pursuing all opportunities.

And we know that once you get a Bitcoin country or even some of the crypto stuff. If there is a dedicated, great team, there are so many different applications that can be utilized within a government agency. And so, yeah, I think it's the only way to do it. If you don't have a dedicated team that is making sure and advocating and pushing for this and making it happen then it could it can just fade so i think it's an essential part of it and i think any country that does this because there is just such a significant time to get these through bureaucracy through compliance through vested interest through banking lobbies, through the Federal Reserve, through the regulators, you have to really start early.

And the ones that do start early, they're either a young, nimble startup country like El Salvador, or if you're a superpower or the largest superpower, then start early. And now is the time to do that with the, you know, never been a greater ability to align and trying to get through some of this bureaucracy. So let's hope we start with this. And I think it would be instrumental in the success of America becoming the leader in this industry as a superpower. Dave. America becoming the leader in this industry as a superpower. Dave? Yeah, I think that the, I don't like the words like necessary, because I think things are going to continue to evolve and we're moving in the right direction. But if you take a look at the

US regulatory structure right now, and I'll come back to something that Elon posted about 400 federal agencies, and there's probably more than that, that have been born that we don't know that they're running out of three-letter acronyms for. The US is the only country in the world with an SEC and a CFTC splitting oversight of financial markets. And that doesn't even talk about the oversight of the banks, which are basically, because of the collapse of Glass-Steagall, are also in the brokerage industry. So you have the OCC and the FDIC and the Fed in addition to the SEC and the CFTC, and that

doesn't even count state regulators. So the point of having a single dedicated office that can help coordinate across these agencies matters, and I think it could be a very good thing. The real question is, is it going to be focused on incremental change and navigating law, in which case you want a lawyer-led office, or is it really a question of understanding how markets should be structured to set out the blueprint for then the agencies to have their lawyers try to work on it. And I know that sounds like a nuance, but it isn't. I've sat in almost every industry committee in the equity

markets for two decades. And I can tell you that generally most policy initiatives start with a concept that gets baked with the industry in either a concept release or roundtables or whatever that's industry-led, and then the lawyers get involved. My fear is if you staff this spot by an attorney, as we pretty much always do, that you're going to get bogged down in minutiae before you get started. Whereas if you put a market structure person who understands how the equity and bond markets work, understand how the US futures markets work versus also understanding how crypto markets work, both CeFi and DeFi and derivatives and spot and understanding how to bridge all those together, you can make enormous progress. And frankly, that this person would have to work hand to glove with Vivek and Elon because a lot

of the job is going to be reconciling among these agencies that they're looking to get make more efficient. So to me, it's an incredibly exciting opportunity for somebody or a team of somebodies to do this and could be amazing, but it really, the devil will be in the details. Dwayne. Yeah, so a quick question for Dave and Simon. So with the way that, well, we all know, you know, the morass that politics can create here. So, you know, within the next four years, if we don't see a significant infrastructure,

at least on the governmental side, that being a czar for Bitcoin or, you know, some of the concerns around the financial markets and institutional investors being addressed correctly? Do you think there's a chance for this momentum overall, you know, to stall? And then what are the prospects of that? Because, you know, we've seen over the years that say, you know, you want to make changes in healthcare, you want to make changes in different sectors, and then those changes just don't come despite best efforts. So what would you say, I guess, on the opposite side or the contrary side, what would occur if you don't really see that kind of progress that people are anticipating?

I mean, do you want to go first, David? Yeah, because I got to jump in like three minutes. So let me just go first. My short answer is it matters much more to altcoins than Bitcoin. I think that Bitcoin has reached escape velocity. I think that the likelihood of a safe harbor, you know, such as was in FIT21, and we can talk about the downside of FIT21 to DeFi all day long, but it does have the safe harbor idea. That's almost a certainty to get put in, and that will allow a lot of innovation. The real question is, will it turbocharge the adoption of crypto-style technologies and blockchain technology throughout other markets, which is something that is not remotely priced in? I mean, I've said it many times.

The equity markets and the bond markets should be utilizing many of what's gone on in the crypto world. And that scares people. But if that is going to get accelerated this cycle, we haven't remotely priced that into any of the assets that might be underlying that. And I think that is a long shot still for all the reasons that you mentioned, Dwayne. But I do think that that change is definitely in the offing. And anything that we're talking about here is gravy. Yeah, I'd say it's the importance of the industry and the lobbies making sure it happens, really. We've got to take responsibility. We can't sit back and wait for a government to do it. And competition. The reason I know this is going to happen is because you either do it now or you do it later. If you do it later, then another country gets competitive advantage.

So already we're getting all the whispers from China right now, where we had a judge ruling that Bitcoin is completely legal. Now, that's not groundbreaking. That hasn't changed whether you can operate an exchange or you can mine Bitcoin within China. But we still know that 20% of hash power is still being hashed in China. And so we had an announcement from Russia that they've made Bitcoin mining legal. And we know that a lot of the innovation on the BRICS side is using distributed ledgers and cryptocurrencies and all of those different types of things. And so then you've got the internal competition at the state level. So it's incredibly important that we're getting this wave of, you know,

Pennsylvania through to the other states, saying they're going to have Bitcoin strategic reserves, they're going to be protecting people's ability to self custody Bitcoin, they're going to be introducing tax bills that would allow, you know, transactions below a certain value to be used as currency. The momentum can come from the industry. And fortunately, we have some incredibly wealthy, well-funded companies that are willing to engage at the industry level and support those lobby efforts. There's a little bit of competition between the whole sector and industry trying to push everything over to their particular blockchain and all that type of stuff. But also, let's not forget that BlackRock has strategically aligned itself with this

industry and the fact that it's pushing a narrative that Bitcoin is a risk off and a hedge asset means that BlackRock is predicting something. BlackRock is positioning itself for that. And BlackRock, when it wants to use its lobby power and its power in order to make something happen, it happens. So let's not, you know, basically a call for everyone to now is the time. This is the time when it's going to happen. And if your country doesn't do it and you're patriotic, then know that another country will be doing it.

And I think that will drive the change that we need to see. I'm going to move on to Buzz in a couple of minutes, unless anybody has some final thoughts here. The reason being, once again, you may we're our numbers are just astounding today it must be the bull market that we have 46 000 oh excuse me 52 422 people here no we we have like 47 000 bots attacking the spaces once again um i would love to think that we had 50 000 people listening to us live but we we obviously don't um and what is the motivation for that like what are they doing i think to crash it it often crashes the spaces and who wants to do that who's incentivized to do that i mean there's someone trying to censor the message like i can't

imagine that what's the game i don't think it's a matter of censoring the message there was a time when we would get bot attacked we would get attacked. And then there was like these widespread fun campaigns that we were buying listeners or something like as if we wouldn't be totally obvious when 45,000 extra people show up to a show. But that was, you know, at the beginning years ago. So I don't really know what the motivation is now. I mean, we're at 84,248 amazing, true, legitimate human beings right now. 89,000. So yeah, I know that Buzz had a sponsor to chat to, and I want to do that before our spaces gets crushed. So thank you, guys. I'm going to let Buzz take over here. Thanks, bud. Yeah, no problem. I mean, I think these bot attacks are

also due to these bot farms trying to warm up their accounts or something like that and try to make them seem more realistic if they're pushing a scam or whatever. So they just throw like 80,000 of them in here to show that they have activity, basically? I think

that's probably one of their motivations amongst many. I can't imagine what their true motivation is there, but it's probably quite nefarious. Well, speaking to the bots, please, all 80,000 of you, follow our amazing guests on stage so they can be the biggest accounts on X moving forward. Thank you. Go ahead, Buzz. I like that sentiment. We got to use them to our advantage like our own mini robots. But we have Dream Channel AI up here today. I've talked with you guys before.

I'd love for you guys to just dive into maybe a brief elevator pitch just because there's probably some listeners who have never heard your previous AMAs and just give us an elevator pitch and what you guys are doing. Yeah. Thanks so much for that. I look, it feels like I'm kind of jammed into a Bitcoin topic here and I'm going to try and make it relevant for that. I'm making Bitcoin lots of fun. Dream Channel AI is a metaverse engine that allows you to generate an AI alter ego character that basically trolls the metaverse looking for action, right? And what you do is you scan your face with your phone, you generate this avatar that kind of looks a bit like you,

you give it a personality using an AI personality matrix, which obviously is a bit like you. And then the idea is then you send it out and it goes and explores the metaverse kind of when you're not there and uh and initially what it does it looks for coins it looks to fight other avatars for tokens so it can fight people for bitcoin um it can fight people for ethereum it can fight people for any any token whatsoever initially that's the starting point um you train it you give it moves fighting moves uh which

obviously costs a small amount in its in our native token um so you know karate mma whatever and then it basically yeah it looks for other other people who are part of the network and initially takes them on uh and and you know and kind of makes we're trying to make crypto fun right of course right you know and and make bitcoin fun and give it another kind of fun thing that can be happening at night while you're asleep. Now, what it does, the next morning you wake up, it sends you a highlights video of what it's done. So you don't have to be there.

You don't have to be there going left, right, hook, all that kind of stuff. It actually just does it on its own and learns, right? Because it's learning to be a good fighter. Now, that's the starting point. But then what happens is then there are 26 channels inside this initial dream channel metaverse world, which are crafted around dating, fighting, and actually just socializing, right?

So they're the channels. So what it does, it also goes on dates. So you can actually earn Bitcoin for the amount of time your avatar is attracting attention. People can visit it. You can go on 100 dates at once and you can look at replays of how the date went and you can choose to follow up all those connections.

So it's kind of this real fun kind of AI space where basically it's your alter ego that is out there generating, you know, a play to earn type game. But it's not just restricted to Dream Channel. The extensions go into any other world. The avatar is decentralized. It can travel to anywhere. It has an embedded payment system in it,

which is basically based around attention. We call it iGaze, and the iGaze payment system allows it to kind of generate attention wherever it goes. And that payment system in itself is actually a solution for monetizing the metaverse in general. Now, metaverse doesn't mean VR. Metaverse means the Web3 new generation of the web, which is crypto-powered and monetized by attention.

That's the general gist of what we're doing. So I saw it as sort of just come in here to this Bitcoin conversation and kind of throw something like this at you guys, but they just sort of gave me the spot to come and chat so uh yeah that's kind of the elevator pitch hey well what we've been talking about on this space has really been hey when is uh bitcoin going to top out and flow to alts and if uh people are kind of studying narratives here especially from last cycle if you you were to overlay narratives onto a chart, I mean, people are looking for the next narrative. Where's that money from Bitcoin going to flow into?

So no conversations are kind of unwelcome. I think it's a good transition. But I did have the opportunity to chat with you before about this. And why it was really interesting to me is I remember the Metaverse meta from the last cycle. And I don't know if anybody here is actually or you have went to a Metaverse last cycle, but you'd go into this abyss and there's nothing going on. There was a lot of hype about purchasing land and the potential to build things. But they had the same problem with a lot of social media startups where in order to make

it fun, in order to make it this dream become a reality that advertisers can go there, they can put up signs, they can monetize their land and things like that. You need users and things for them to do. And why I found this interesting in our last discussion is that it's sort of like you've created this autonomous way to create entertainment value within the metaverse where you can have users, but the users don't have to be on there all day. They can basically give their character prompts to get them going out and doing things and kind of create this entertainment value. And I thought that had a very interesting way to actually scale metaverse activity and start to get early users. But what I'd love for you to dive into is

kind of like what you think the future of the metaverse is, kind of acknowledging that a couple of years ago when that was the meta and the trend there, there was sort of this lull in people actually using it, but mostly speculating. Where do you think it's likely to go here, especially in this cycle? Yeah, no, for sure for sure i mean the metaverse is ready for the next next real phase up to now it's really just been an experiment virtual land all those kind of things and i think it's been we've been waiting for the metaverse has been waiting for for now it to become not just about going into vr or whatever else the metaverse is now the real world and the and the and the virtual world combining, right? It's actually the internet.

Web 3, the new immersive internet powered by Web 3, that is the metaverse. Now, how that works, you've got to think about, okay, well, that's a good idea, but how does that actually work? The key to this whole thing is everybody has a phone, right? Everybody has a phone. Everyone has a smartphone, most people. And that's your window to the metaverse. So if you want people to engage with this new immersive economy,

I'm immersed if I've got my phone on and if I turn my phone on, I have access to AR. The AR doorways that give you access to all these different kind of channels inside this metaverse equation, they all come from your phone. So that's how we're starting these different kind of channels inside this metaverse equation. They all come from your phone. So that's how we're starting off our kind of journey is that you actually generate this avatar using your phone. You scan your face.

You create this character. You give it a personality all from your phone. And the next thing it does is it actually heads out to locations in the real world and it drops tokens in the real world to wherever you go. If I go clubbing, it drops tokens there. If I go to some rock gig, it drops tokens there, right? And all these tokens are like a massive treasure hunt going on, right? Which basically create avenues to my metaverse space, which is where my avatar lives, right? That's in the

virtual world, right? But it's accessible via an AR doorway where my avatar lives, right? That's in the virtual world, right? But it's accessible via an AR doorway triggered by the token. Okay, so this is how we kind of, this is our first run at integrating the real world with the virtual world and making it all kind of seamless. And then the idea then is that, and this is a good idea, but without payments, it doesn't work. So the idea is that you find my token, you then, next thing thing you know you're going up into my space you you meet my avatar now this is all tracked by by this eye gaze payment system which basically sends tokens

to whoever's generating generating the attention and this allows everybody to get in on the game on the payment side meaning that so a d DJ plays at a gig in the real world, drops tokens there. I gather those tokens. I meet his avatar. I go and listen to his set again. He's earning for this engagement, right? A sponsor whacks a logo on him or behind him or whatever, okay? And that sponsor only pays for the attention that is generated from the users coming in who all get a clip, right? This is the equation for the metaverse now that I'm seeing that is now possible, and that's how we're driving this thing. So, that's all the model, but then what AI, this is, I'm just, again, getting back to what the future of the metaverse is.

AI allows this thing to be persistent. In other words, a persistent metaverse, it's always there. It can't just only be there when I'm there. It's got to be happening all the time. So the idea with the AI part is that my avatar has a personality. It's going and doing things all the time. So now my profile in this new metaverse profile you have is no longer Facebook. Facebook was your kind of there I am. I put messages up

there, people can reply when I'm up there, but it's not really doing anything, right? Whereas the metaverse, your profile in the metaverse is this character that's running around doing things all the time, generating content all the time and creating this other entertainment paradigm for you, right? So it's earning and it's meeting people and it's doing stuff. It's making, it's intriguing. So it's extending the metaverse. This new wave of the metaverse is an extension of your personality into this other realm, right? Where it's actually happening, it's intriguing, all those things that kind of made us intrigued with the metaverse, but you could only do when you were there and now happening all the time and you can choose to engage whenever or however you want. That's how i see this next wave of the metaverse happening and

it's only possible because of two things blockchain uh the whole decentralized nature of it which allows all the seamless you know integration with all these different channels coming together um and it's also possible because of ai which allows it to expand infinitely and and and and create on the fly without you being there so that's how that's how i see it so when i'm trying to learn about new technologies or new projects like what one thing i try to do is try to make like kind um similes like uh would you would you be amicable the idea that this is kind of like pokemon go meets an autonomous bta in the metaphor yeah i think you're right i think i think um pokemon go is a great i use that quite often just to explain to people i say it's pokemon

go style and go out to go oh yeah right i know what you mean right but the other thing i think the integration with pokemon go and second life is probably the real kind of integration there because Second Life, see, we're not doing things, the metaverse is not really doing anything new. It's just putting things together that already worked before, right? So Pokemon Go, it worked. People understood the idea of collecting things in places and going on treasure hunts.

That proved that it worked. Humans are going to go and do it, right? Second Life worked. People went on these crazy adventures like you know you can become a vampire fly around on halloween and you could you could meet you could you know you could do anything you could create an island that was a big discotheque or you know anything any kind of fantasy or inhibition or or crazy adventure you wanted to do you could go and do it in second life and everybody did it and it was for everybody it wasn't just for kind of radical you know weirdos or gamers or whatever it was anyone did it right which made it a very interesting kind of proposition so i'm seeing the integration of those two things and it's just things that worked before

coming together and and and it's a now it can be bigger because if you look at what Second Life had with their Linden dollars and et cetera, et cetera, but it was just one channel, right? It couldn't really expand out to have other people integrate their idea of a Second Life. I mean, you had to build in Second Life. So, this new equation is much bigger. So, yeah, I think what you said is a great way of explaining it. And I think that's probably what needs to happen when people explain the metaverse. You've got to explain it in a way that people understand. Pokemon Go meets Second Life, that sort of thing. So people go, oh, okay, I get it, right? So that's been the problem with metaverse. It's too kind of like an enigma that no one's seen it or done it, and then when they have done it it's been under inspiring so then they don't want to go back so i think this new equation is is honest

and and the bitcoin wave that's pushing this forward which is then pushing things into alt coins is going to create the interest and and and the and the financing for these other you know other areas and i think that if that gets going you know you wait and see where bitcoin's going to go if that'll just swell back underneath it again you know that's how i see it working so so i i just did a uh a search just on like user uh sort of active users on second life and i'm seeing like they almost have 65 million users so like if you're combining pokemon go and second life like the amount the market size here what that tells me is pretty huge for people who are using applications like that so tell me a

little bit about how someone on boards to start playing and how many people are currently playing right now so so right now we're releasing uh the the app which is by the mobile app and it is it is in its early stages uh We actually built out the payment system over the last two years. So that's in place. That's a patented system. I'm not sure if that makes any difference, but it's got a US patent for how that monetizes. So we've got all the elements for how this is going to work, but we haven't really been able to fully push the go button yet. We're just trying to get a groundswell under it. So we're testing a lot of things in terms of how the AI generative stuff is working.

That's still – look, AI is there, but it's not fully there into where we – we've got a vision for how it's going to work. But right now, the AI is limited to really training your avatar how to fight, which is where we're at, right? So that's working, and we've basically got people fighting each other and using, you know, this kind of moves library to basically train their avatar on how to fight. But the next bit where it gets into like avatars going

into like a nightclub and then interacting based on, you know, my avatars, you know, outgoing and the girl in the corner, she's kind of like, you know, a bit more kind of, you know, my avatars, you know, outgoing and the girl in the corner, she's kind of like, you know, a bit more kind of, you know, timid and how they're going to interact, right? That formula we're playing around with right now, that's going to be the next thing that's really going to drive this. Fighting only gets you so far, right? Everyone can fight and that's fine. You understand a fight, okay, I won the fight, I won some coins.

But how avatars engage in an environment where no one knows what the outcome is going to be not even me not even the girl i'm meeting because it's all based on a personality matrix and how they're going to combine and watching that that's going to be the intriguing next step so that's the bit that we're kind of working on to get right before we fully fully release it because i think that's going to be the real kind of like um game changer and the really intriguing bit that everyone's going to want to have a look at so yeah that's kind of where we're at we're we're rolling out the fighting part now but i don't think that's going to be the real game changer

the game change is going to be this this interaction between you know characters based on yourself that you can experiment and change and And that's going to be the solution. How long do you expect that roadmap to be? Like when could users expect things like that before we... Yeah, okay. So the fighting's happening now. So that's a way. So you can download the app.

It's actually on the App Store at the moment. You can download it, create an avatar, get in a fight. And that's already started. So that's begun. But the personality matrix driven side of things, we've got that up and running, but it's generating a text story right now rather than an actual video story. The video stories will start rolling out probably

in about Q1 next year. Yeah, that's when that's going to roll. So, yes, it's not far off, but, you know, the seeds are planted and the world that it all takes place in is already up and running. So, yeah. Yep. Awesome. And as we wrap up here, are there any call to actions

that you want to put to the audience? And where can they sign up? Maybe I can look for a tweet to put up in the nest as well if there's a call to action there. But tell the users how they can sign up, how they can get involved. Sure. We have a battle royale, which is launching this whole thing, which is basically the top ranks.

We have core avatars that are fighting it out for a prize, right? And the prize is this lucid dreaming elixir, which they need to survive, which is called AI Dreams. So the starting point is to get involved with that. And if you go to dreamchannel.live, if you go there, you can see what that's all about and join it. And there's also a token, the token that the advertisers are fighting for, called AI Dreams.

That's on Fjord Foundry right now. You can buy it if you want or you can just try and win it. But that's the starting point. Because the currency of the world, the official currency is called AI dreams. That is actually not really a currency. It's actually an elixir that the avatars need to drink to stay alive, like an energy drink. So that's what they need.

Other tokens are also usable, but that's the kind of Red Bull of the world. So that's what they fight for when they come together. So that's, which is kind of interesting, just one last point. In AI, you kind of need something, a central thing for the AIs to kind of form around, which gives them context of what they're doing and why they're doing it and fighting for a thing they need to live

and going on a date to earn a thing they need to live. It gives them context and allows the scenes to generate around a particular narrative. So that's the whole point of having ai dreams there you go so yeah engage with our dreams because that's the elixir that your avatar is going to need to drink to stay alive and go and fight date mate and procreate there you go i love that uh that tagline thanks for thanks for joining us today and thanks to the listeners for coming. Make sure that you follow Dream Channel AI, follow all the speakers. And thanks to Scott as well for putting on yet another great show. We'll be back tomorrow. I believe it starts at 10.15 a.m. Eastern Time. So these Crypto Town Halls are every weekday, 10.15 a.m. Eastern Time. And we'll be back tomorrow. Okay, cheers.