The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Holders NEVER NEED To Sell – Here’s What They Do (Nexo)

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

Nexo says crypto-backed lending is making a comeback as regulation improves and institutions return to the market. We talked about why more people are borrowing against their Bitcoin instead of selling it, how institutions are coming back as regulation improves, and why the U.S. could become one of the biggest growth markets for crypto lending over the next few years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Crypto lending became a dirty word after 2022. Guild looked dangerous, leverage looked reckless, and most of the biggest players disappeared. But Nexo did not. Now they're back in the United States and the market is changing fast. Regulation is coming, institutions are here, and crypto-backed loans are growing once again. Today, I'm talking with Neil Steinhart from Nexo about the return of crypto lending.

Crypto is democratizing everything because now anybody who's got these holdings want to keep their assets and not sell, can access capital. That's why I think it's becoming so popular. How people are borrowing against Bitcoin and Ethereum. It's practically automated, right? They're collateralized loans. The risk profile's a little bit different, so we can take a look at your portfolio.

As long as your LTV is okay, you can keep taking out loans all day long. You can take out eight loans today. What makes a responsible platform different? We use institutional grade custody. In the US, we work with partners like backed. It's really just a combination of using best practices. We're stock two compliant. We have all our ISO standards.

We're building things for the long term and we're not trying to take any shortcuts. And why the United States could become one of crypto's biggest growth markets. Let's go. This is where I want to start because obviously you're at NXO and you were the, I'll almost call it the lone survivor in the CFI world from the 2022 collapse. And now yield is back maybe. Like it is not a four-letter word anymore like it was and leaves you again, I think, sort of leading the charge.

So let's just talk about that. I think the general broad environment right now for lending, yield, and what's behind the scenes. Perfect. I think that's super cool. Yeah, dive in. So, you know, it's interesting because, you know, as there's a maturity in the market and obviously the regulatory environment's changed, you see, you know, people are always barring against securities, right? So you have helix that would be the most common, right? Like everybody knows, hey, I can borrow against my house, right?

Security-backed lines of credit, right? But hey, the crypto is democratizing everything because now anybody who's got these holdings and want to keep their assets and not sell can access capital, right? So next I can give you a real-time decision and give you access without having to sell. No capital gains taxes, no, none of that. So at the end of the day, I think it's amazing, right? There's a way forward for this. And that's why I think it's becoming so popular.

So how are people actually using it now? I mean, I remember in the early days, it was sort of extremely like low LTV, right? You had to be very conservative. Those would still blow up, of course, with crypto volatility. And rates were exceptionally high. I think across the market, they broadly are starting to come down. And I think with tokenization, now it's going to be more blended with the rest of your portfolio. So, I mean, what does the market look like right now and who's using it?

So it's really interesting. So I think, you know, a lot of people like big purchases. So you want to buy a house, you want to buy a car. You know, we have a report from last year about our card spending, right? And 30% of the purchases were for experiences, travel, hotel, travel agencies. So, you know, people want to use their assets, right, without having to sell them. And we have a new card report coming out next year, next couple months, really. That should be interesting about this year's spending.

But basically, you know, people want to buy the same things they want to do. They want to use it for trading, basically. How big of this market right now? Last quarter, it was about $70 billion, $73 billion. So next was one of the few companies to actually grow their portfolio at that time. So it's a robust market. Even in a downturn, right? There's a fair amount of volatility in the market, right?

But people are still holding on their assets, still bullish about the future. How about the institutional side? Obviously, we know why retail uses it. You just laid out all the reasons why you would take a loan. A lot of people call them lifestyle loans. and if the market does well, actually, it's structurally a very positive thing for somebody to do because it effectively pays itself off in the gauge, right?

But how are institutions using it? I mean, a lot of people have looked at Saylor, for example, and said, why aren't you putting these assets to work, right? Either with lending or option strategies or anything. Yeah, I mean, I can't speak for every institution, and I can't speak for Michael Saylor, but I would say that, you know, institutions can need access to capital, right? And so, you know, if you've got these holdings, this is an easy way to get your liquidity and, you know, bump back into your business.

Yeah, so right now we're seeing this massive wave of institutional adoption to crypto in general, outside of even lending. Obviously, we have the biggest institutions on the planet. We had a recent announcement, actually, that caught my attention I wanted to ask you about, which was OpenUSD, this new stable coin with a consortium of 140 of the biggest players on the planet, right? I mean, is this, I mean, this is the convergence of Tradfai and crypto at its peak, right? Here it is. I've been talking about it for a while, right? So, you know, all the major, you know, fintech players and Tradify guys have joined this consortium, you know, and a lot of people are saying, hey, blockchain is so disruptive and how is V's and MasterCard and Western Union going to survive. But now you have Stripe and MasterCard and Visa all part of this OpenUSD, which is really interesting. And I think it kind of shows that. the market's mature, right? And that this blockchain infrastructure is going to be transformative, right? And so all the major players are going to come in and support this. And it's going to put the focus on the blockchain and not necessarily the issuers. And that'll be pretty

interesting to see how that kind of plays out in the market. Yeah, I think it's going to change a lot if it's successful. Absolutely. Obviously. I think the big signal, once again, is that all the institutions are here, they all have a plan, and they're all eventually going to put these assets to work. They were all here anyway when you look at all the EFTs, right? Like, everybody's playing in this space, right? So it's becoming institutionalized, and I think we talk a lot about the regulation that's been coming in, and, you know, regulation's good. But, you know, if you want capital to flow in the markets, then people have to understand what are the rules that we're playing with, right? And so now those rules are getting established, and so now you see the capital's coming in.

You don't strike me as a guy who was born into crypto. Like myself. Yes. I know that you have a pretty robust background outside of this industry. I always love to ask people how, with all the things you could be doing in your life, how'd you end up here? I ended up here by choice. But most recently, I co-founded a fintech startup.

We were a digital wallet for education and government. We sold that company to private equity, and I was kind of thinking about what to do. I've been in fintech for 25 years. And my former G.C. from Skrill called up and said, hey, you might want to talk to these nexo people. And, you know, I told them straight up. I said, hey, I'm not a crypto person. I've owned some Bitcoin. You know, I understand what's going on, but, you know, hasn't been my industry. And they said, no, no, we're looking for bad guys. That's probably a good thing.

You know, because, hey, we need money transmission licenses and we need lending licenses, and we need, you know, all the things that traditional finance has are now, coming into crypto. It's not the wild wild west. So it's been a really easy transition and really fascinating to take a deeper dive and learn a new industry. That's the convergence as well, right? I mean, it said like you need to do it right. You can't just do it in the old crypto way, which has moved fast and break things anymore if you're dealing with governments in the largest institutions and tens of billions of dollars in capital. Absolutely. And it's the same rails that we're riding. And so, you know, when you look at, you know, maybe like the Genius Act and you say,

who's going to regulate this? And you're like, oh, okay, I know those guys. You know, this makes more sense. And it's leveling the playing field for people to come in and create better products, right? Because now the uncertainty comes out of the market. Do you find that people are still skeptical because of what we've seen in the past, or do you think that we've kind of, you know, jump the creek now to where it's normalized again? Well, I think the horse left the barn, for sure, right?

So, you know, I don't think we're going to go back and unwind all this. You know, I have a lot of people that come up to me and said, hey, you know, I don't really understand these digital assets. And, you know, what's a Bitcoin? It's scary to invest. And I was like, well, if you really understood Fiat, you know, you'd be terrified. So in your mind with these products back, you never left, but with, you know, certainly coming back into Vogue, what sort of separates a responsible platform from one that you might want to avoid? because I have to imagine that there's still going to be people who do this wrong? There are in every industry, right? And so, you know, you look at some of the players that are no longer around from 2018. You know, we talk about anti-fragility, right?

And Naseem-Taleb, you know, systems that get harder when things get rocky. And NXO is certainly, you know, we're still here, right? And we're thriving and doing well. So, you know, I think, yeah, there's always going to be a bad actor. But at the same time, like look at traditional finance, right? There's always going to be a Silicon Valley bank and a signature bank and a Washington Mutual, and nobody throws their hands up and says, hey, the world's coming to an end. It's like the systems are resilient and they get hardened and everybody moves forward and that's a good thing.

Maybe you can give me the secret sauce then on how NXO specifically actually works. Where's the money custody? Where does the yield come from? Like the really important stuff that people need to hear. Sure. So obviously, you know, we have a relatively conservative approach, right? And we keep the LTVs, you know, reasonable. We use institutional grade custody, so a lot of fireblocks and people that you would think.

In the U.S., we work with partners like backed, right, for our trading and for our rails. So, you know, it's really just a combination of just, you know, using best practices. You know, we're stock two compliant, right? You know, we have all our ISO standards. And so, you know, we're building things for the long term. And we're not trying to take any shortcuts. You're not making massive uncollateralized loans to three euros capital. No, we would not.

That's not a recipe for long-term success. But where is the yield actually coming from in this case? So I understand now, obviously, where the custody side is and why the assets are secure. But you're obviously putting these assets to work. There's a lot of different ways. But, you know, as the third largest lender, right? I mean, we can generate the yield by lending to other lenders, right? And so it's really not as mysterious as you would think.

And what does the Back to Partnership looked like? You mentioned that, but what, you know, what do you do with them? So coming back to the U.S., we want to, you know, there is a regulatory environment that we understand. And so Back was able to provide, you know, trading and rails. You know, they're publicly traded institutional grade. And they were the perfect partner to help us, you know, come back in and relaunch. And, you know, we really enjoy working with them. That's interesting.

So maybe then you should just broaden out and tell us exactly what services at this point in time Nexo is offering. And maybe we can talk about, you know, I don't know if it's depending on regulatory clarity, no pun intended, or what likely coming or what would be on the roadmap. So right now, obviously, we have, you know, trading, right? So you can take your fiat and bring it on and you can trade. You can take your crypto and bring it on. We have our yield products, you know, flexible yield and fixed yield. And we have our lending product. So, you know, those are the core products here.

You know, as we continue to develop in the U.S., we want to have more parity, you know, with our European partners. So we're going to have, you know, things like that. So, you know, pretty excited about the future. I mean, I think we see a lot of platforms in crypto and beyond kind of converging in the middle as we're talking about. Not necessarily really tradifying crypto, but everybody wanting to be everything, right? So, you know, Koybiz had their announcements of the 12 new businesses that they're launching in five minutes. It took a lot to digest that. And I think Robin Hood coming from the other side, but they're on layer too, all these things.

So does NXO, are you in a position where you feel like you do what you do and you do it really well? Or do you have plans to also? I mean, it seems like you're in a perfect position to start offering all these competitive services. Yeah, and we have a good roadmap. Because we have a very robust business in Europe where we started. And, you know, we just launched business accounts, right? So not just individuals in the U.S. So, you know, slowly and methodically, you know, we're rolling out the products, you know, as we're ready.

I think the future is very bright for next. But you're back in the U.S. Right. I mean, that's kind of the announcement. So what allowed you to come back in the U.S.? You know, it was a decision. I mean, the U.S. is a huge market. Obviously, you know, we cared very much about the U.S. before we pulled back.

So, you know, the idea of coming back with the regulatory clarity that we see, with the partners that we've cultivated, you know, the U.S. market has the largest GDP, you know, by 30 percent over Europe. we have some of the most credit savvy individuals. You know, we got a population over 350 million people. So, you know, how could you ignore the United States market? But we did want to come back the right way and we have. But is that because of the political and legislative and regulatory environment,

or was it just enough time for the smoke to clear and to create the partnerships? No, I think it was a confluence of events that just said, hey, you know, now is the right time to come back in. And, you know, I think if you would have looked back, he said, hey, we, elective done it a little sooner, but we want to do it right. And so, you know, let's... Yeah, I'm just curious if you could have even tried when Gary Gensler was, you know, the head of the SEC or, you know, and that... Or if it was just worth letting that play out. It would have been a little more challenging, I think, you know, back then. But like I said, you know, like, you know, I think the future in the U.S. is regulatory clarity, you know,

and a level playing field to go out and compete and win everybody over. That's obviously the big topic right now is what will happen with the clarity. We keep saying regulatory clarity. It's perfectly named because we've said the word 10 times without saying the word. Right. But, you know, the Clarity Act seems to be the big talk of the town, obviously. On the legislative side, we've already gotten genius. And I think everybody agrees that regardless of clarity, we have great regulators for the few years. Right. So I think that they'll be able to set a lot of precedent and rulemaking over the next few years. But I think everybody wants this codified so we don't get another pendulum swing. Absolutely. And what is going to look like? I don't know, right? The political sausage making that goes into you know, passing laws. But taking the discretion out of the equation, actually codifying things into law, you know, I think is a real positive. And I think if things just stop now, like,

we'd still be in a really great place. So, you know, I think there's more work to do. But, you know, we'll let the politicians work it out. I've got to imagine the U.S. is arguably the most challenging regulatory environment because not only do you have to deal with the federal government, but you have to go state to state to state to state, right? I mean, everybody notoriously knows how difficult the New York BIT license is. For example, now California has their own regime that's coming into play without having the federal government. So, I mean, we can see it in prediction markets and all these things. There's this endless push and pull between the states and the federal government.

Absolutely. That's the industry I come from, right? So I've been a licensed money transmitter for a very long time, you know, state by state and everybody's a little bit different. And, you know, you just have to kind of accommodate it. You know, it becomes a muscle memory, right? You're like, hey, it's going to be a little bit different to operate in New York than it is in California than it is in Kansas. We're going to have different T's and Cs for people. We're going to have different rules.

But, you know, Nexo works in 200 jurisdictions. So we're pretty used to... Crazy. Do you need different lawyers in every single one of those jurisdictions? Like, either people who are like a catch-all for 50 jurisdictions? We have some people that can cover many jurisdictions. But it's work, right? And then you've got to figure it out and tell your solutions.

And maybe there's something that we can offer in one state, but we won't offer it in another state. And, you know, that's just part of being in the... market. Do you think that consensus now is that it's safe to operate in the United States, not for you specifically, but for the industry? So a lot of people left and never came back. Yep. I think a lot of people left and are thinking about coming back, and then there's like few who left and fully came back. Like you know, I, like I said, I can't speak for other companies, but I think for us, you know, we love being in the U.S. market. You know, we're happy to be back and the time was right. I think for other companies, they have to make a decision. You know,

the regulatory burden is high. The cost of doing business here is high, but the market is tremendous. So, you know, everybody's going to make their own cost-benefit analysis. So, I mean, at the most basic level, we kind of talked about who's using it and how they're using it, but is it really a product for people who desperately want to avoid selling and either taking the taxes or because they've just fundamentally believed that they want to own these assets? It's a great use case for our users to build wealth, right? And so we tend to cater a little more high net worth. than low-end retail, anybody can come on our platform and take advantage of it. So I think when you look at it, there's a very sophisticated mark in the U.S.

that is looking for solutions like NXO. And I think we're just scratching the surface at this point because, you know, it is still early. You know, people who've been in the industry for a long time say, oh, it's been so mature and there's been so many ups and downs. But the reality is that we're very, very early in this journey. and I think there's a lot of opportunity ahead. Right. I think most people still don't know that they can do this, right, who own crypto casually or, you know, I think that's still.

I mean, there's a huge amount of people that don't know they can take a security back line. Of course. From their equities, right? Or their 401Ks. So, you know, I think there's a lot of education that needs to go on in the marketplace to get people aware. Yeah, people, for some reason, rich people don't teach other people how they're doing this and avoiding taxes. Strange how that works. Well, you know, I'm not here to give tax advice.

I said avoid not. Tax avoidance is legal. Tax evasion is illegal. But like why, but it is the answer is like I think a lot of people would say, I need to sell all these assets to go by my house. Right. They don't realize that they don't need to sell them.

And if they appreciate it can effectively be, you know, a massive benefit financially and from the perspective of being able to purchase that. One of our most popular products is a zero interest loan. So, you know, we, we definitely have a different product suite for people. that they can take advantage of that can be very, very advantageous. The other side is that it's really hard to get a loan in this country, period. So forget even the crypto side of it. The amount of time it takes the credit checks, the gatekeeping, you know, all of those things.

To me, that was always the most exciting promise of lending in crypto. You can turn these around. It's, you know, practically automated, right? So, you know, because they're collateralized loans, you know, the risk profile. files a little bit different so we can take a look at your portfolio. But does my credit score matter? No. Don't check it.

Just your assets. Right? Because you have the assets and you can liquidate them as necessary. Exactly. Although our preference would be not to. Obviously. So yeah, no, I think it's a great opportunity for people. I think there's lots of opportunity in like crypto-back mortgages, you know,

and just generally raising the awareness for people. You know, still crypto adoption, you know, is low, right, compared to, you know, everything else that's in the marketplace, right? And so like I said, you know, people instantly think about helox, right? Because homeowners said, oh, I've got all this equity built up my house and I can borrow against it. They make it really easy, relatively easy. Which makes sense because you have the asset. And it's a collateralized loan, right?

It's not dependent on some theoretical idea of who you might be or your risk profile. You have the house. You have the house. And most lenders would be like, hey, I'm, you know, happy to take it. They don't want to take possession of your house either, right? Yeah, they don't. But it's nice to know that this is, you know, not an unsecured loan. So what assets do you lend against?

So we lend against about 20 different assets. You know, the majority of them are BTC and ETH. But, you know, when you go to nexus.com, you can see a pretty wide range. And I assume the LTV is different based on the risk profile of those assets. Yep. And where do most people come in from an LTV perspective, you know, on Bitcoin, which I'll say is probably the most conservative asset? About 50%. Yeah.

Which is reasonable. So meaning that they don't start to even, you know, be concerned about margin calls or liquidation risk until there is a significant drop in price. Absolutely. And, you know, obviously there's... What's the threshold where you start to get emails? There's been a... And you do get some warning, right? Hey, there's a margin call. But I think, you know, the volatility that we've seen, you know, and I'm not a real market expert in that. You know, it's less volatile than it's been. I think part of that is some of the institutional money that's coming in.

And so I think there's lots of volatile assets. You know, crypto can be volatile. But at the same time, I think it's... It's a big... Mag 7 stocks put in 30% days up and down after hours. So I don't really think the volatility is crazy. So I don't think it's as much, right? And generally, I'm bullish on crypto, you know, going forward.

So, you know... Well, what's the threshold where people generally start? Like, where... Well, most people come in and test smaller loans, right? Just so kind of... And they can add. You would never tell everyone to take it. everything they have and put it into a loan because you want to be able to add you want to have the

flexibility. We're not going to give financial advice to people, right? But, you know, so most people come in, test the water and be, hey, this is really simple and easy. And, you know, as long as your LTV is okay, you can keep taking out loans all day long. You can take out eight loans today. You know, if you... Do you think a lot of people take out a loan to buy more of the asset? They do. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a good use case. If you're bullish, right? Why not? Yeah. So you take a, take a loan on your Bitcoin and you, and you, you know, you use the 50% and buy more Bitcoin. Buy more Bitcoin.

Right. And as long as you can add, you know, I know a lot of people who have done it, I was just curious if that's one of the more prominent behaviors that you see on the platform. That is a common behavior, and we do see it. But like I said, you know, a lot of people want to buy a house or buy a car. You know, there's lots of different use cases for the liquidity. Did I see that you guys had an F1 partnership now? Yes, we do.

So actually, we're a sponsor this season for the Audi Revolut team. It's been super fun. I got to see them in Miami. I got such a car. It's like that is the coolest looking car. Obviously, you come in F1 and it's hard to compete, but the car looks amazing. It's pretty wild. So we tend to do a lot of sponsorships and brand building. So, you know, in the U.S., we were the title sponsor for the Dallas Open.

That was a blast. So the next of Dallas Open, we'll be back next year as well. We sponsored an Australian Open. We sponsor a ton of golf. We've got the, we got F1 this week in London. in England or in England. Silverstone. Yeah, Silverstone. So that would be a lot of fun. And what you go? So we love, you know, taking our brand, giving some of our clients' experiences, you know, super memorable experiences. Right. I mean, is that, I guess, you know, when you look at a branding partnership,

I always find this to be so interesting. You know, they're expensive, obviously. So, you know, are you looking for general brand exposure? Does it drive tons of people to sign up? Or is it really like a lifestyle side of it, right? I think it's both, and I think, you know, coming back into the U.S., obviously there's some brand building that we need to do. And again, it's like, you know, there's a certain early adopter segment of the market who love NXO and have known NXO for a very long time, right? But there's the mainstream market that, you know, hasn't been exposed to NXO.

And so we need to raise the awareness. And so how do you target the people that are our potential clients, you know, so that they start making the association? And sports sponsorships are a great way to, kind of get your name out there and get people curious. You know, what's the ROI for every specific event? It's hard to quantify, but that's why we have marketing geniuses in the company and try to figure that out.

So you've come back into the United States, obviously. Argentina as well? Next to Argentina is going strong. We did an acquisition of a company called Buenbit last year in Argentina. And so just solidifies our foothold in Latin America. And we have big aspirations for Latin. going forward. Yeah, I guess that was literally going to be my next question. So you mentioned 200 jurisdictions, but there are more. So there's some where you're obviously not operating and would

like to. How are you navigating that? How do you identify the next target? How do you kind of think about where to go next? Yeah, to be fair, my focus is mostly in the U.S. So obviously, you know, I'm aware of what's happening in Argentina. But at the same time, I've got some pretty big goals for the United States. And that's my general focus. Okay. So now how do you service institutions and businesses outside of like your retail customers that I think are, I'm assuming the bulk is retail customers? But then you have family offices. Businesses, you know, businesses, you know, come in lots of different flavors, you know, and so lots of high net worth people come in as corporations and not as individuals as well, right? Although their behavior might be, you know, pretty

similar. But no, we target RIAs, we target family offices. There's a lot of marketing and outreach goes on to go bring those people into the nexus fold. Are there states where you can't operate at bay, going back to that challenging? We're not operating in New York right now. Nobody operates in New York. They hate fun. You know, having grown up in New York and New Jersey, you know, I think we'll get there. But they've been a challenging jurisdiction to work with most of my career.

Yeah. You know, and so in crypto. Not just for crypto. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think people should be aware of that. Absolutely. I think there's a sentiment that, like, they hate crypto. It's just that they are very difficult. They're challenging.

But at the same time, you know, it's just, you know, order of operations, right? It's like we can launch almost everywhere else, you know, real easily and get started with BACT. And, you know, we'll get New York eventually, you know. But you just opened in California. We did just open in California. That's got to be the second most challenging. Fantastic. We're super excited to be back and, you know, look at.

Non-specific to this, more broadly, like, what gets you up in the morning? What gets you excited about this industry now that you've been here for a bit? You know, it's a growing industry. And, you know, so I think there's, you know, the opportunity, you know, it grows exponentially, right? Because, you know, we want to grow our core business, but also the market grows as well, right? And that's really fun. So, you know, I'm a startup person by nature, you know, I've been venture backed for about 25 years. They sucked you back in.

Yeah, you're like that. You're like that. But the idea of growing is really, you know, fun. and that we can do things that actually move the needle, right? And so you can feel those wins. You know, at some point you get, you know, so institutionalized where like nobody cares, right? And the winds don't matter anymore. But, you know, for the U.S. market, you know, the winds all matter, right?

And so, you know, we can track the growth day by day. And that's exciting. And that gets me excited. So I guess, yeah. I mean, I guess the next question is you have incumbent to offer products like this non-crypto. Right. What happens when they all decide?

Because we've seen that's kind of, that's actually part of, I think, clarity. but seeing Sab 121 when that was kind of rescinded. Like, you know, State Street and all these guys, when do they just say, yeah, we'll take all your big. Hey, we're poised to compete, right? We're the third largest crypto lender in the world. You know, we're one of the big boys, too. So, you know, we might not have the brand recognition yet.

But I think, you know, we've got, you know, an interesting product suite and interesting track record. And we can go out there and win. Well, I think the crypto native still isn't on, you know, like JP Morgan and looking to lend their crypto assets there. Maybe if they're holding UTFs and such. And that's a great way to come in, right? Say, hey, like, I can get some exposure to this market, right? And so now I'm a little more intrigued, right, about how this is performing. Maybe I really want to hold that asset and, you know, we can make it really easy for you. So I think

it's interesting because, you know, I've always been a fan, you know, being a startup kind of guy of, you know, crossing the chasm from Jeffrey Moore, right? It's like, you know, why do you, why do you a lot of startup companies fail, right? Because they're really good at selling the 15% of the early adopters. Then they go out and raise the Series A. And then they double down, oh, my God, but they're only selling the 15% of the market, right? But we want to sell the whole market. And the whole market isn't aware yet. You know, like, if your mom's not buying crypto, you know. Yeah, we're too early to be worried about the size of the pie. I like to be worried about this pie and its current size. We're early, right? And so, and it's not just young people that

are into it. Like, people need to get educated a little bit more. And I think, you know, Listen, Bitcoin goes up. That gets more people excited and more people talk about it. But especially in the U.S. market, where we're such a credit savvy and a market savvy population, right? Like you go on the news, like so many people have their retirements tied up in 401Ks. They understand there's a ticker, right, about the stock market. People know what the Dow is at and people know what the NASDAQ's at. And now people see what Bitcoin's at, right? So there is a mainstreaming of things that is really, you know, encouraging to me that people are starting to become more aware.

I know your U.S. focus, but do you see different behaviors? by jurisdiction. Like, is your average customer in Europe behave differently? Yeah, you know, average transaction size and things like that. You know, like things tend to be bigger in the U.S. You know, we're just a wealthier market. Have you seen Buckees?

It's huge. I've been so fascinated by the world companies. All the Europeans coming here. Love, love. It's amazing. I've worked for European companies for a really long time. And so, you know, sometimes I feel like I have to defend America, you know, to a bunch of Europeans.

And it's great when they can come here. And it's just like, they don't understand. I've had somebody called me up. like, hey, I'm coming to the States. I love to get lunch. I'm like, great. You know, when are you coming in? Like, I'm going to Dallas on, you know, next week.

And I'm like, I'm a four-hour flight from Dallas. Yeah. They can't. Not around. You can't conceive it, right? You know, like, America's big, you know. And that's one of the things that's, like, super cool. I'm very pro-America and I'm definitely, you know,

rooting for the World Cup. Does it, is your business impacted by where the asset prices are? Like, you know, is it booming crazy when we're in a bowl? market and do people pull back when we're in a bear market? Obviously, you know, it's a little more fun in a bull market. But, you know, we're resilient, right? And listen, you know, Nexus has been around since 2018, so we've seen a lot of cycles. And, you know, like, you know, people are buying in the down market too, right?

And people, you know, want to buy when it's going up and, you know, I can't manufacture the FOMO for them. But, you know, it's a very real thing. You have no concerns about the interest returning to this market? It's going to come back, and it's going to come back hard. You know, we're bullish, right? And we're here for the long term. I mean, this is why we're doing everything right and, you know,

try and come back in. So, you know, to take one specific point in time and be like, hey, I'm totally fixated on, you know, where Bitcoin is today, you know, misses the bigger picture. Yeah, I agree. Anything else on your radar than I might have missed? No, I think, you know, that was an interesting conversation. I think we got to cover a lot of ground, you know, and like I said, you know, for your audience. I would encourage them to come and check us out. Where can they do that?

They can go to nexo.com, easiest place. And I think we have a lot of exciting products for our U.S. customers and, of course, for our global customers. I think this helps get the word out that you're back in the United States, right? I would imagine there's a lot of people out there who, you know, you left. Yeah. And now we've got to let them know that you're back. And you've been here the whole time, not here, but you've been here, the grandeur here the whole time.

We're totally back. And we're going to keep promoting. We're going to keep doing things. We'll be at F1 in Austin. We'll be at F1 in Vegas, and we're going to try to keep raising our profile. Vegas, man. My 50th birthday is the weekend of F1 in Vegas. I'm thinking about doing that.

Let's go out for your 50th in Vegas. Good time, though. Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming through.