The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Holds $90K While Global Markets Remain On Edge! Dead Cat Bounce Or Reversal?

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Bitcoin is bouncing after a brutal week of liquidations, ETF outflows, and panic across global markets but the macro picture is anything but stable. Stock futures are slipping, AI-bubble fears are spreading, Japan’s bond market shock is triggering a massive yen carry-trade unwind, and risk assets worldwide remain under heavy pressure. Bitcoin dropping into bear-market territory and ETFs seeing record $3B outflows has traders questioning whether this rebound is a true reversal or just a dead-cat bounce before more downside. In today’s show, we break down the latest data, the contagion risks, and whether Bitcoin can hold the line as global markets flash warning signs.

Bitcoin bounced back a bit, but the world financial markets seem to be in turmoil with huge question marks across the board. We have Nvidia earnings today, which we all know is effectively the Super Bowl of financial markets at this point. The yen carry trade once again seemingly unwinding and of course Jerome Powell and the FOMC today. What does it all mean for Bitcoin and should we even care what it all means for Bitcoin because we all know where Bitcoin is going. And one of my favorite people to talk with about Bitcoin, the future, basically everything, is my friend Jeff Garzik here from Hemey and, of course, from Block. We're going to talk about all of it and more. Let's go right now when I can actually trigger the thing

because Dream Yards broken. Again, let's go. Let's go. Happy Nvidia earnings day to all those who celebrate. Good morning, everybody. I'm going to go ahead and bring Jeff on right now. Almost every day, Jeff, I have an embarrassing moment where something software-related doesn't work. Like I went, I pushed the button. Music just didn't start.

The other day, we couldn't end the stream. So it just went on indefinitely for four hours. It's a good time. I love it. Yeah. Being a software developer, we get all the mud from all the users everywhere. But good to be here, a lot of fun. I mean, how about Cloudflare, right?

I mean, yesterday the entire internet was broken for four or five hours. Not our main topic here, but man, you know, when we talk about decentralization and centralized systems being problematic, couldn't use four or five crypto exchanges. Twitter was entirely down. I mean, it seemed like literally the world was broken. Maybe there could be a better way with some technology we often talk about on this channel. I don't know. Yeah, the joke that all the engineers are sharing is, you know, the internet dream in the 1990s is the big, beefy Chad internet where you host your website on your own Linux server in your own house.

And then the, you know, it's the big beefy Chad meme. And then the little wimpy dog is today's Cloudflare. Everything runs through Cloudflare. You know, nobody's self-hosting anything anymore. I mean, I'm sure that there's a way to solve this, but we're not going to figure that out today. I want to start sort of with the broad strokes on the Bitcoin market. I could be wrong. Have you been here for literally every cycle?

Literally every cycle. I've been there since before Bitcoin had a price. Yeah. I mean, you're Satoshi, allegedly. You're on the short list of potential Satoshi's last I checked. If I was Satoshi, I'd have a lot. a little bit more money in the bank account, I think. Well, maybe not because you'd be afraid to ever move any of it out of your,

out of your genesis wallet. But here we go. Bitcoin hits bear market territory. History says the cryptocurrency will do this next. That's Yahoo Finance now is using YouTube level clickbait titles. Good job. We'll do this next. To unpack this, first of all, their definition of bare market is the standard one,

is when you start closing, you know, over 20% down for an extended period of time. And, I mean, Bitcoin's in the red for 2025. So it's hard to argue with, I get in that regard. But by that metric, they're saying that Bitcoin goes up on average 1% over the next 12 months. And last time I checked, we get 20% corrections like 10 times a cycle. So how that's not true. It's not true. It's the vol trade.

Fundamentally, Bitcoin is a volatile asset right. now. And honestly, to steal a fast food restaurant's tagline, I'm loving it, because I'm over here on this Defi project that I don't know if we want to mention the name, but it's all about Dex trading of BTC. And so fundamentally, volatility is what this project loves. And their, their fees are spiking, interest is spiking, interest in BTC is spiking. And you get all that whether Bitcoin is going up or down. And so there's a lot of Bitcoin volatility. You know, the long-term holders are definitely feeling some pain. But let me tell you, the traders are enjoying the momentum trade. Let's talk about that trade, though, because this reeks of the carry trade that we've heard about

before. We'll get into the carry trade, I guess, on the yen, but in the past, you know, where you would basically, like, short the premium on GBTC or on futures and long spot and you collect the yield in between. I mean, is that effectively the trade that you're talking about right now? And has that trade now become more accessible in a way that that could be what's explaining this sort of dampening of volatility or the price slowly bleeding out? No, I'm talking about something specific in defy. I guess I'll throw out the name yield basis. Is, one of Curved Dex's sister projects. And they're doing something interesting with their Curve USD stable coin,

whereby they're adding a small amount of leverage. None of this like a thousand X perps, you know, leverage type stuff. They're adding to go home. Yeah, exactly. 2.5x leverage on Curve USD into their own LP pools. And what this does allegedly eliminates impermanent loss. in decks holding and so people are currently holding btc and yielding over 10% in a bear market as well as a bull market so it's all about you know as long as people are trading bitcoin you're generating

trading fees you're generating trading fees to these LP pairs and you're getting that small amount of leverage to 2.5x leverage on top and they they are just soaking it up so uh you know while the macro, which we were talking about off of camera, was, you know, definitely painful. The yen carry trade unwinding, all that fun stuff. Over here, there's like green shoots and bright spots in this corner of defy where, again, anytime is volatile. It doesn't matter whether Bitcoin goes up or down. If there's trading, if there's volatility, they're making money, they're loving life.

They're adding to their Bitcoin stacks. Wow. I didn't realize that that was so popular in being so heavily taken advantage of at the moment, but that definitely does help explain a lot of things. I mean, the other narrative has been that the early whales have been selling, right? I know it's like the most annoying thing now, but when you see hundreds of thousands of coins moving to exchanges and basically being offloaded, that's a lot of supply and selling pressure. I mean, do you do any of your fellow potential Satoshi's in early Wales? Like, have you heard them? So, you know, disillusioned with the government and BlackRock adoption that they're unloading their stacks. Or maybe you have some, you know, opinion on the guys basically being 15 years older, having kids and saying I'd really rather a yacht than some of my Bitcoin stack. You know, like, you're in the Reddit chats with these guys. Like, what's going on? Because it's been a pretty prevailing narrative. There's a secular rotation.

There's kind of a, you know, I'm not, I won't claim to be statistically representative. But what I hear is institutions are coming in, ETFs are coming in, the Michael sailors are coming in, they're all buying Bitcoin. They're all setting up digital asset treasury companies, PubCos. Of course, many of those, the MNAV is under 1.0 now. But fundamentally, they're soaking up Bitcoin. So the OGs wanted to give them Bitcoin and maybe cash out a little bit before the next wave.

So I've definitely been seeing some of that. The institutionals and the DATs, the public treasury companies, they're still going strong. They are still soaking up Bitcoin. Also, Ether, Tom Lee's Bitmine or Bitminer is buying Bitcoin, buying Ethereum in like $10 million tranches and stuff like that. And they're probably all of them with the latest dip. They're probably buying the dip as well. So there's definitely OG rotation to ETFs and institutionals. And I think fundamentally the dip is more about macro than the crypto industry.

Because there's still appetite in the crypto industry for these PubCos to soak up Bitcoin and ether. I think, again, you know, Japan is swamping everything. And the fourth turning is swamping everything from a global macro perspective. All right. We're going to talk about that in a second, but I just want to point out, yes, BlackRock leads near 3 billion November ETF exodus with record 523 million outflows. We're getting outflow records now in the ETFs in the first 18 or 19 days of the month. It was not supposed to be that way, right?

We had record-breaking inflows for so long. I mean, maybe just to go back to the original question, as cycles of the past have been, this is not the same, right? I you kind of talked off camera was like 2025 or flat and all coins are down bad right so this is supposed to be the boom year of the four year cycle so a do you believe in the four year cycle and be in context of everything happening this year how do you actually like prepare for whatever comes next what do you think that will be oh that that's a really good question and i think crypto is maturing what i mean by that is you got these three and four year cycles when crypto was in its own self-enclosed bubble, but now that we're integrated into the worldwide financial structure,

which is a recent happening in the past 12 months, 24 months, that we're much more unfortunately correlated with the global macro. And so it's less about three and four year crypto cycles and more we're getting plugged into the global macro, whether that's, you know, going into cash and hard money and away from stocks and bonds or whether that's a yen rotation or, you know, the ETFs are now legal, so you get a bunch of inflows because it was a zero to one moment. You had a lot of those zero to one moments and hopefully not too many one to zero moments in the past 12 months. Yeah, so let's talk about the macro that you mentioned.

There's a lot of it happening. Obviously, we have Japan. And you've been relentlessly retweeting this stuff and you just mentioned the fourth turning so I can tell that you are leaning more doomer than boomer in this case, right? So Japan's 30-year bond yield jumps above 3.3% for the first in history. I believe that should have said first time in history. This guy's actually been just like relentless about the Japan trade and what it means. But it's very clear here that the trade that is funded so much of financial.

financial markets has been borrowing the yen at zero percent and using that money to go spend literally everywhere else on things that are yielding higher, right? I mean, you just got free money in Japan. Well, now when rates are jumping, you know, 70 basis points in 12 months on their 10 year yield, the highest we've ever seen on the 30, money doesn't work anymore. And we talked about this like six months or a year ago when it was first unwinding and now here we are again. but nobody's talking about it this time. Yeah, the macro macro across a hundred year time span is what you just mentioned, that fourth turning. And for the audience, that's essentially you have, you know, generation, 20 years that experiences something, they have kids.

The next generation, they didn't experience that, that great depression, that world war. And so they don't have that direct experience. And then they have kids, you know, you get into the third generation. By the time you get that fourth generation, you have really no connection with what's your great grandparents experience. And so you don't learn the lessons that they learn. And that's where generational amnesia starts to come in. And you start making history repeats, and people make the same mistakes all over again. And that's kind of what the fourth turning is, is you're going through that fourth generation, generational amnesia.

And in this particular case, I think it's about fiat money versus hard money. And where does that go? Specifically, Japan has been buying or Japanese yen borrowed has been buying not only stocks, not only bonds. It's been buying hard assets, real estate, Bitcoin, gold. And so that's literally, like you said, everywhere, that's not a correlation between Bitcoin and gold, that's not a correlation between stocks and bonds. That's a global unwind. So that's a massive headwind, but I'll bring a tailwind. I'll bring a, you know, some optimism as well. The stablecoin side, the U.S. government side is also a counter to this. The U.S. government is

using the U.S. dollar and crypto stable coins to extend the life of U.S. treasuries. Some of the biggest holders in the world of U.S. Treasuries, Circle, U.S.DC, and Tether, U.S.D.T. So the stable coins are picking up where Japan left off is the macro macro. Will crypto save the U.S. dollar? I'll leave you and your listeners with a question mark. Okay. Well, I'm going to dig into that question mark because there's two sides to that coin. So I agree that stable coins can largely pick this up, depending on how large.

they become and what, I guess, financial services are built around them so that you can do the same things. It was happening at the end of carry trade. But the flip side is, if we have rates coming down across the world everywhere, how will the stable coin companies that depend on high interest rates to be the best companies in the world fair? If we go back to ZERP, how does circle stock trade? Right. I mean, they're obviously building their own layer one for this reason and trying to find new new avenues of revenue but like you know circle stock for example is priced to a world where they can just collect four to five percent on all of the holdings if that goes to zero all the revenue is gone not all but the bulk yeah their their revenue definitely falls but

i'll push back a little bit i think circling tether will be just fine in a world of two percent or even one percent because they're they're collecting what you know in that worst case they're collecting 1% on 64 billion, you know, and they have 140, right? By that time. So yeah. So they have, they have, you know, Tether famously has a couple hundred employees. Their revenue per employee is a hundred X what Goldman Sachs or any other company revenue per employee is. It'll go down to maybe 50x, what Goldman Sachs is. And they're still, they're still backing up a cash machine to their office, every single day. So Circle and Tether, they, thanks to U.S. regulatory silliness, they can't give out their yield. So they're forced, oh darn, to put the yield in their pockets, use it for business

development, investment, network growth, et cetera. So that's, Surreal and Tether, some of the best businesses to be in, bar none. Do you want to talk about some like peak dumerism here? I have another screen down here. I'm looking at his exact tweet, your retirement account. your mortgage rate, your job security, all priced in a world where Japan stayed asleep. Japan just woke up and nobody hedged for this. Like literally a movie trailer. This guy is good or his, his AI is good. But I mean, is this that big of a deal?

I mean, $20 trillion in global yen carry trade exposure. And he points out that in 1997, the Asian financial crisis started with Thai bot devaluation, which was only a $600 billion loss. I love those. Yeah, we got so much doom every day that nobody believes. It's like a, you know, crying wolf. Yeah, it's one of those you ignore all extenuating circumstances and yet goes great to zero. That's that kind of analysis.

So it's kind of fact-based, but it assumes that you never have any countervailing factors. You know, fundamentally, people don't want their numbers to go down. fundamentally, people don't want to go hungry, lose their housing, et cetera, et cetera. And so if you've got a big train ahead of you that looks to scramble the financial markets, there's going to be a Hank Paulson going back to 2008, you know, ready with the money printer, ready with some of the other financial tools to step in. So there, you know, it's more there's going to be chaos, not doom. there's a lot of positivity in again some of the corners of crypto defy some of the corners of

AI really increasing productivity so there's there's a lot of countervailing forces as well and so I don't think it's straight to doom it's a it's really a big coin flip we kind of the world on a precipice if I was the Hollywood writer writing the script I wouldn't say it's is straight to doom, but they're, you know, factors that can push us either way. Yeah, I mean, if we want to go slightly less on the doomerism, we can talk about a few of the tailwinds, at least that we have in the United States. And listen, your U.S. base and you're a building in crypto and you're still here last time I checked, which I find impressive after what we went through for four years. So I would love to hear like just some personal anecdotes

about that. But that wasn't a page I want to bring up yet, but we will. But these are some great news, right? U.S. regulator. Banks can hold crypto to pay blockchain fees. So just a year ago, a bank couldn't even hold crypto for you without having cash on the other side of the balance sheet to offset that as a liability, which is insane and obviously nobody could custody. But now, like, if a bank wants to, you know, send a little eth or use stable coins on they can hold ETH for its actual utility as a bank on their own balance sheet as opposed to even custody for someone else. I think this is huge. I don't know if they will, but the fact that they can is, it's just such a change in environment. It's absolutely positive and not to bang too much

on the politics. And for the record, you know, I didn't vote in this particular direction. but the new U.S. administration has really done a 180 on crypto from a crypto negativity to crypto positivity perspective. And it was already coming in the late Biden administration. The U.S. courts had decided several cases against the admin and in favor of crypto. And that's how we got the first Bitcoin ETFs. And I think it was 2024, late 2023, something at that time frame. Yeah, and that was the courts.

That wasn't the admin. But the new admin comes in very crypto positive. And we're starting to see things like the OCC or the FDIC or custodia, which is a full custody. It's a radical bank. It has full custody of dollars and not fractional reserve. And so naturally, they've been shut out of the Federal Reserve system. and now they're green shoots there too. They might get access to a quote unquote light master account at the Fed,

which is a new invention specifically for crypto. So all these admin agencies in the U.S. flipped 180 degrees from anti-crypto to pro-crypto. And that is really, you know, you're seeing evidence of that everywhere. And that banking headline you just show, that's more evidence of that. It's, you know, crypto is open for business in the U.S. is what one U.S. politician told me. It's really true. Yeah, clearly it's true. We have kind of just endless news to that, on that front every single day. There's another one I love. New Hampshire launches first Bitcoin backed municipal bond,

a hundred million Bitcoin conduit bond, which is not that small. And this is New Hampshire. It's not a million bucks. It's 100 million bucks. It's meaningful. could pave the way for digital asset center, the $140 trillion global debt market. There's an over-collateralized bond used by the New Hampshire government. I mean, these are crazy stories. It's finally coming into state governments, federal government. There's talking about a Bitcoin strategic reserve at the U.S. government, which is interesting and controversial at the same time.

Most people are going to land- Especially when you build it by just robbing people in other countries, just take their Bitcoin. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And that's how they're building it up is through criminal seizures and stuff like that. But it's better, you know, this is super controversial. I'll say it on your show to generate some attention. But I don't think the government should be buying Bitcoin to generate a strategic Bitcoin reserve. or buying, you know, printing money to buy Bitcoin, you get into a bad, a bad situation there.

So, you know, I might not be welcome at a couple Bitcoin cocktail parties for saying that. But, you know, Bitcoin and tax dollars ought to be in kind of two separate bubbles. I'm just happy to huddle my Bitcoin. Yeah. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance in the entire, yay, Black Rock, yay, United States. state's government. Yay, strategic Bitcoin Reserve side of the once strong libertarian movement that was behind Bitcoin. But, yeah, where are the cypherpunks? Where are the cypherpunks? They're building things like you. That's right. Okay. Let's just talk about Hemian. Then we can

come back to this other stuff because I opened the website and there you are. Like, you know, talking about Jeff Garzik on yield. But welcome to the yield machine. A treasury grade execution layer for Bitcoin built the power lending liquidity of rate markets with transparency, not trust. So you guys at Block have built some of the fundamental use cases of Bitcoin. I think it's fair to say. And this is the one you've somewhat seemingly gone all in on for now. And you and I have actually already, I mean, it's over a year ago. I think we were already talking about this, right? Like you and I had interviews about this. So nothing new, but talk about what it is, why you're building it and why it matters, I guess that it's on Bitcoin. Absolutely. So we're building the

Hemi layer 2 blockchain, Hemi.x, Y, Memi, underscore, X, Z on 20. Twitter and X, which I guess is the same thing. Hemi is fundamentally a Bitcoin and Ethereum layer two. I've been in crypto 15 years, and that arc has brought me back to building on Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a first class asset on this Himmy Layer 2 blockchain. You can exit directly to the Bitcoin layer one. There's no wrapping, re-hypothication, leveraged LRT LSTs. That fundamentally, it's direct to Bitcoin L1.

Bitcoin itself doesn't have a native yield mechanism unlike Ethereum. You've got staking, earn 3 to 4%. Staking Ethereum. Bitcoin doesn't have staking. And we said, you know, that's wrong. Fundamentally, you want to hold Bitcoin, you want to earn without a lot of of risk as a hoddler, as a long-term Bitcoin holder. And that's what we're addressing. The Bitcoin pragmatist, not the Bitcoin maximalist who's holding Bitcoin in a Swiss

mountains secured by armed guards. The Bitcoin pragmatist wants to hold Bitcoin and spend U.S. dollars, wants the whole Bitcoin and earn some Bitcoin yield. And the new factor on the playing field are these public digital asset treasury companies spending tens of millions hundreds of millions or in michael sailors case billions buying bitcoin putting it on their public company balance sheet and then doing nothing with it it just sits there watching it drop like going all that's right and didn't even save anything to buy the dip right it's crazy yeah so phimmy offers a solution to all that bitcoin yield is uh the next new it's It's a hoddle, the best asset in the world, the most bomb proof, most likely to be here

in a hundred years asset, that's Bitcoin. But you want to grow it, that's natural. Just like a bank savings account, you want to grow it. And yield is where it's at. And how do you get that yield? There's trading fees, as I mentioned earlier, is a very big portion right now, the yield basis and some of these other DFI projects that lean on Bitcoin volatility. volatility. Bitcoin volatility is, you know, a fact of life, like we're talking about Bitcoin cycles.

And when you have volatility, you have trading fees. When you have trading fees, you have yield. So all of that feeds back into the long-term hodler narrative. You can get paid for hodling. That's what yield is fundamentally. Which is interesting because you earn it, but you don't give up control of your Bitcoin, as it says here. So how can you still be self-custening it, but it can be used to earn a yield? How does that work exactly? Because usually it's getting re-hypothicated or you give it to someone and there's kind of a trust-me-brough receipt on the front end that says, yeah, you'll get it back. You've got an IOU, right?

So how can I earn that while, you know, having control of my own keys? It's the familiar defy pattern. So it comes into Hemi-Defi. It's non-custodial smart contracts. So there is smart contract risk if you're in a Dex pair that's trading between, say, WVTC and CBTC. So you're earning yield from that with a slightly elevated risk, but you don't have price volatility risk. So there's reduced risk. If you want more risk, you can actually earn 20 to 30 percent on your BTC, but institutions are not going to yellow into.

to kind of those higher leveraged, you know, 10x stable coin type yields. You were building this before we were talking about this explosion of treasury companies for years. So that's just like a boon to what you were building? Or did you see where the puck was going and you were already skating there? Because, yeah, it's one thing for your average Bitcoin holder to say, yeah, take one or five or ten or even a hundred of my Bitcoin. It's another for an institution or one of these pub goes, say we just bought 5,000 Bitcoin. How do we make that accretive to our, you know, shareholders? No, that was in the cards.

We could see that coming down the pipe as soon as the courts cleared the Bitcoin ETFs in the U.S. jurisdiction. It was open season on all of this stuff. So we can see it coming down the pipe. And institutions, particularly, they're not even looking for the crazy yields. I want to earn 20% on my Bitcoin or something like that. 1% is just fine for a public company versus zero, which is what they're earning now in their Bitcoin. So 1, 2, 3, 4% is just fine at the institutional level.

And that's actually attractive for them. That's a zero to one moment for them. So we've been preparing for that for quite a while. And it's a bet that's finally now paying off. Is it even yield if it's less than 10%? what are we doing here you got to start at 10% and then you have to compete you're right up to 20 then you're Luna and then we build again oh god that there there's a heart attack from the past thankfully I was never in Luna I could see that just promising 20% was a guaranteed loser from

the get-go but some people got to play through to learn those lessons hard so listen like circling back to the previous conversation you're a building in the United States and you've been pushing forward regardless, I think, of regulation or legislation. Maybe they're believing it would change or that what you're doing wasn't really under their purview anyways. But we have Senator Tim Scott pushing for December vote on crypto market bill. Now, I'm old enough to remember when this was definitely being signed by August and then was definitely being signed by November. So I would take this with great assault. We've got everyone's favorite bald guy with glasses, CEO Brian Armstrong of Coinbase saying that there's a lot of progress

and he thinks it could pass in December as well. And then I'll just, as a, I guess, icing on the cake, SEC's done with crypto removes all mentioned from its agenda for 2026. So they had all these things they were going to be looking into in crypto, and they're just like to just go play over there, leave us alone. So, I mean, assuming these things happen, how meaningful is this, I guess, generally for the market, but to you as somebody who's building here? Yeah, it's hugely meaningful.

It's, you know, we're hiring in the United States at a time when, you know, the white collar tech worker crowd is seeing challenges on the job market. The crypto job market is as hot as ever. We're looking for, you know, Americans, but also folks. And we got a lot of people in Buenos Aires and Portugal and stuff like that. It's, you know, really a boon for operating in America. We have a lot less regulatory overhang. You don't have to deal with crazy stuff like subpoenas from the SEC. You're actually getting the SEC and CFTC trying to figure out where is, you know, my bounds versus your bounds.

And in the past four years previous administration, two agencies within the admin were fighting each other over who could prosecute which crypto project. So it's it's just green fields and green shoots versus an absolutely draconian environment over a year ago. Did you buy a chance just if we want to just have some fun here? Did you see the articles about conjecture that Jeffrey Epstein somehow had a connection to early Bitcoin? I tweeted that in 2019. In fact, I was I was throwing darts at that. There's like a Joy Ito, Digital Garage, Blockstream, Epstein Connection. And I was throwing, I was slinging mud on Twitter in 2019 about that. Because I thought they should, it was so obvious that it was corruption and a stain,

and they should have stayed far, far away from it. But that's how the world falls. So I was deeply critical of that in 2019. you can see some of my tweets that some of the hardcore bitcoinsers dug up most recently. I mean, it's pretty crazy. Newly released documents detail Epstein's influence

on Bitcoin's early development. He supported MIT's DCI with funds for Bitcoin core development. And it reached deeper into Bitcoin circles, including ties with Brock Pierce with whom he had conversations. I mean, pretty wild. Like, dude, you were there? Like, were we created by, you know, the NSA or something? like that's odd like you know who's Satoshi yeah it's it's all BS you know people let it's all BS

clickbait there there was no like influence on the code because at that point the code was written it's the code you know here here's a controversial statement uh that will offend almost everybody the code has been in maintenance mode since Satoshi left in 2010 And so, you know, that stuff occurred in like 2011, 2012, 2013, the MIT stuff. And that was far and away after the Bitcoin system was baked, working out in the field. And mostly Bitcoin Core development has been kind of tweaking the edge. And this includes my career, Gavin's career, is kind of tweaking the edges of the beautiful gem of Satoshi's creation. And so we've been kind of, and, you know, I'm kind of being humble taking myself down a notch, right?

It's like we're all polishing Satoshi's gym at the end of the day. And no one has made like fundamental, radical, you know, let's take Bitcoin, totally different kind of change direction. And I'm happy for that. I think that shows a Bitcoin strength. Have you gotten any meaningful pushback from the ardent, hardcore? grand wizards of maxiism for daring to build something on bitcoin uh you get a little bit of mud slinging from the hardcore maxi crowd and stuff like that but a lot of that is is just burned out over the years it's kind of like the the new generation of crypto folks they had no memory of block size

wars no memory of past crypto cycles stuff like that so it's all uh it's all new folks So you definitely think Craig Wright is Satoshi and that BSV is the total opposite of what you just said. I'm so glad that he's not a thing anymore. Yeah, that's, you know, again, the court system has in the end done the right thing, both for Bitcoin in the U.S. as well as for Craig Wright. you know finally all the lies plagiarism all his ridiculousness is off the scene and thank goodness for it what do you think as we kind of come into this potential fourth charting japan japan unwinding i mean there was a great tweet i did now i got to find it but from uh kobe c letter i had it and i think i actually closed it but basically outlining all of the massive catalysts that we're

obviously getting for inflation you know like uh stimulus or from everybody, rate cuts everywhere, $2,000, Stimmy checks going to individual Americans. Like, you have to imagine that inflation is coming back. The money printer hasn't stopped. You know, they haven't stopped money printing. And in fact, the money printer seems like it's revving up again, just as the Fed was talking about, you know, ramping down their balance sheet. And now you got $2,000 stimulus checks.

So the money printer is revving up even as they were claiming it was revving down. But this is all the case for Bitcoin. When does the flip switch for people? We obviously have, you know, Ken Griffin and J.P. Morgan all of a sudden talking about Bitcoin is an answer to the debasement trade. So maybe that is the catalyst it takes. It's like they have to hear the evil emperor and Darth Vader both talking about it for. for uh then to register for the rest of the empire right but um bitcoin is built for this yeah bit i call it uh hyperinflation insurance bitcoin is uh it's not an inflation hedge

but it is hyperinflation insurance so it's uh you know you get uh you know inflation goes from two to three percent bitcoin is not a massive help there inflation goes from 2 to 20%, 2 to 200%, Bitcoin is absolutely your savior. Yeah. God and Bitcoin right there. So does that mean that if global markets collapse, Bitcoin can still just go up? Bitcoin and gold. Bitcoin, gold, ammunition, tobacco, and nails.

Yeah. Well, I guess I will get my army of clones. to meet you in Gastown. That's right. And we can trade. Oh, alcohol, too. Got to bring some whiskey. So, yeah, for sure.

So before I let you go, what else is exciting you in this market, obviously? I mean, we talked about what you're building at Hemie. I know that that's been your focus. We've had all these sort of countless narratives and bubbles of things that are being built. You know, just generally, what do you see coming where we'll actually see some meaningful adoption and gets, gets you excited? You know, you're a known futurist, so tell me the future here. well the uh you know you always look for where is there a ton of innovation where is there

an oversupply of innovation that's going to burn off stable coins there's like so many stable coins we recently had a stable coin flash crash on october 10th when uh trump did like a you know a tariff thing that triggered some stable coin uh issues there was a balancer hack that uh you know played into this and the net result after all of the dust cleared is there's still plenty of stable coin competition more stable coin competition coming online and you know as a lover of adam smith in free markets competition always creates the the gems the best gems that are forged by fire and so those always bubble up to the top you got 100 stable coins 95 will die and the remaining five hopefully hopefully they'll just hopefully through the free market and not through

the luna exactly and so stable coins are a bright spot there i i call cryptos killer apps number one bitcoin bitcoin the token uh number two stable coins they've punched through to the mainstream they're in robin hood they're in all these other uh visa mastercard banking apps you're starting to see stable coins hit, you know, Normies, the mainstream. And then number three, killer app is Polymarket. That is on the lips of, you know, Wall Street traders, taxi drivers, Uber drivers, et cetera. So all these three crypto killer apps have punched through, continue to be exciting, continue to feed innovation. What's going to be the next new, new? I don't have my crystal ball that far. tuned into the future but if there's a lot of you know kind of chaos in the world macro chaos

bitcoin is going to be the calm the eye in the storm will bitcoin be the reserve currency of mars you guys don't know but jeff and i always end up nerding out on space stuff you're my go-to guy but like are we going to mars and is bitcoin coming with us how about that one yeah yeah absolutely uh fundamentally uh we i've always loved uh space Space chain, one of my projects, sent six satellites to low Earth orbit, one of the only startups in the world that's ever done that, and that's a crypto startup. So you crypto listeners should be proud of that because you're a part of that. And we're going to see cities on the moon very soon.

I'm involved in a project related to that. We'll see cities on Mars. We've got the president saying, we want people on the moon before he leaves office. So that's given new urgency to a lot of these rocket companies like Rocket Lab, Blue Origin, which just had a massive success. And of course, Elon Musk's SpaceX. And all of these folks, you know, trivia, they love crypto at those companies. Obviously, Elon and his Doge fascination.

But the Blue Origin folks, the space folks, anytime you talk about space to space folks, governance, jurisdiction, and money comes into the conversation. And that's where crypto enters the conversation. So space and crypto, always going to be best friends. For sure. I love having these conversations with you. I really appreciate it. Everybody should be giving Jeff a follow.

You're one of my favorites on X. Where can everybody, you said it before, but let's say one more time. Where can they check out everything you're building it, have me, and participate? Check us out on the web, hemie. xy z hemmy dot xy z follow us hemi underscore xy z on x follow me if you want spicy crypto and world takes j garzik on x thank you so much jeff tell matt i said hi i owe him a conversation to matthew proper i will i will circle up to do one and uh we will definitely have to have you back very soon man thank you so much really appreciate your time thanks for having me scott this has been

great. Awesome, man. Bye, everyone.