The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Insider Reveals Why Institutions Are Scrambling To Buy The Dip! | Matt Hougan

Episode Date: March 1, 2026

While retail investors panic over volatility, institutions are quietly buying the dip. In this conversation, Matt Hogan breaks down why financial advisors, wirehouses, and major institutions are steadily allocating to Bitcoin, how the institutional adoption process actually unfolds over years (not weeks), and why this bear market feels fundamentally different from 2018 or 2022. We dive into the real valuation debate around Ethereum and Solana, why stablecoins and tokenization are the true institutional obsession right now, what BlackRock’s move into Uniswap signals for DeFi, and whether a diversified, index-style approach may ultimately outperform trying to pick winners. Institutions already assume Bitcoin will be here in 10 years and that everything will be tokenized — the only question they’re debating now is where the value accrues and whether this dip is an opportunity rather than a warning.

For the institutions that didn't allocate in 2024 or 2025, they're licking their chops. Crypto retail entered full bare market. It hit its lowest level ever. Five. It's at five. If you want to think about an asymmetric opportunity, put five on a scale of one to 100.

It's way over here. The average Bitwise client takes eight meetings before they allocate. We're about two years into the ETF boom. So they're like just now getting ready to allocate. It just moves not at a Twitter pace. It moves at a institutional pace. Eventually, Bitcoin ETFs, I think, will at some point have a trillion dollars of assets in them.

They're not going to go down from here. Institutions love tokenization and stable coins. We've talked about that before. They assume it's fate of complete. Black Rocks on Uniswap, all their ETFs are tokenized. It's hard not to be bullish when you think about that world. These are attractive on a 10-year time horizon. Let's go.

You and I talk like once a week, it feels like. That's right. We're going to find a new topic. But the first thing I want to talk about is that tweet us. saw from Hunter, which said effectively to butcher his words that you had a potential client, I guess you've been talking to for two years. They decided to allocate, I think it was $11 million, and the conclusion was that institutions are more excited than ever now and they see this dip as an opportunity, not a problem. That's absolutely true. For the institutions that didn't allocate in

2024 or 2025, they're licking their chops. I know in Twitter land we're worried about this volatility. They're not surprised that crypto is volatile. Like, wow, crypto is volatile, right? They've been waiting for an entry point. They take their time. We had net inflows last week when the market was down sharply. I think institutions are the marginal buyer. I think they're going to continue to come into the market. An institution like that, were they just waiting for the risk manager to finally give them the green light? Or were they literally watching a chart and said, 60 seems like my moment? No, they're better lucky than good. You and I have talked about this before. the average Bitwise client takes eight meetings before they allocate, which is brutal.

But they meet quarterly. We're about two years into the ETF boom. So they're like just now getting ready to allocate. It's actually just completely normal. It's the passage of time. Lucky them they're buying at 60 and not 120. But I think it really is that amount. They're just, they wanted to allocate to this space.

They finished their due diligence. They're ready to go. And they happen to have a great entry point. But these people have social media just like we do, right? they probably open X or do a search and they see the stories about the brutal bear market and massive outflows from institutions, which we could talk about. You're seeing inflows and there's actually outflows, I guess, writ large. How do they stay convicted when they haven't even touched the asset yet?

Well, I think they also look at that four-year cycle. We're in the negative part of the four-year cycle, but guess what the next three years look like in that chart, right? They are looking ahead. These people are making allocations for the next five or ten years. I think even if you talk to the most bearish, despairing person on crypto Twitter, and you ask them where Bitcoin will be in 10 years, they're going to be pretty bullish. I think that's the timeline that these people are moving on.

So, yeah, again, they're not shocked that crypto is volatile. They know this is part of the thing, and they're excited to take advantage. So how do these people allocate? See, this one, for example, I know you can't speak specifically about them, but the $11 million they put in. Is that the $11 million that they're putting in? Let's just generally, or is this the first 10th of the position that they're building? Yeah, so it's actually a great question.

Usually this is a financial advisor who might have 100 clients. And typically what they do is they take their first 10 clients who have been asking them relentlessly about crypto for the last 10 years and they allocate on their behalf. The big gain comes when they go from 10 to 100, and that's typically a second phase. I don't know in the case of this one group if it was they decided to do it across all their accounts, but most of the advisors who buy Bitcoin do so for a handful of clients that have been talking to them about Bitcoin, and then over time they broaden out to the wider community.

But it's interesting because there was a long time sort of at the beginning of this institutional adoption when they were allowed to take incoming but weren't allowed to pitch their clients, right? That's open now, correct? It's just open as of Q4, at least for the major wire houses. Yeah, yeah, we call it whether it's solicited or unsolicited. It was in the unsolicited camp, meaning they couldn't proactively talk about it. Now, three out of the four major wirehouses can proactively talk about it with clients. The fourth one will come on board soon.

So are they using those 10 customers as basically their test case, their crash test dummies, so to speak, before they start to actually recommend it? Actually, usually they start with themselves. So what we see as a pattern is the advisor themselves allocates. They hold it for about a year. and then they allocate on behalf of those 10 clients, and then they expand it out, and then they go from 1 to 2.5% to 5%.

People are skeptical of this story, but I think if you ask yourself individually, like Scott, what was the first time you bought Bitcoin? Have you bought Bitcoin since then? Of course. Everyone has bought Bitcoin since then, and the same thing will be true for this community. Really, really interesting,

because what that says to me is, if there's something that you're just getting traction from now, could be a year for them to actually experience it themselves before that next 10, before the 100, which puts us on basically a just rising demand seemingly indefinitely. It is a series of sequential waves. And then there are other people who are moving slower, right? University endowments may meet with us once every six months or once every year. Insurance companies may meet with us once every six months or once every year.

So there are this, it's not one institutional community. It's like 10. and they're all moving on the same path, just at different rates. It is a rising series of purchases. Look, you know, eventually Bitcoin ETFs, I think, will at some point have a trillion dollars of assets in them. They're not going to go down from here. It just takes time.

So do they call you or do you call them? Oh, we call them. Look, they reach out to us sometimes because they see us here. They read our memos. But we have a 25-person sales team. They're out there visiting people in the territory. They show up in bull markets or bear markets. And honestly, that's how you build trust as you show up right now when the market is down.

You explain why it's down and you give a view on how it could recover. That's what they want to hear. So from your perspective, what do you view as actually, you kind of said they're different, right? It's not all a monolith. Yeah. Institutions or how do you sort of bucket them? Sure. Yeah.

So RIAs, which are independent financial advisors, they're not tethered to a big corporation. those are the first people to buy. They're already allocating in size, something like 30, 40 percent, I think, are thinking about or buying big. Is that because they think for themselves? They think for themselves, yeah. They don't have Schwab saying, sell my product? Usually they left, exactly.

Usually they left a large company where they got their business started to go independent because they wanted to make independent decisions. So those are the pointy tip of the sphere. The next is people who work at wirehouses and Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo. They need the wirehouse to bless them. And then they can start learning. That process just started last quarter, right? You also have family offices, which are quasi-intervended, and they're moving pretty quickly.

And then above that, you have true institutions. You have insurance companies, pensions, endowments, foundations, sovereign wealth funds, central banks. Sort of in that order that I spoke, they'll move progressively slower. But we're going to get all the way down the stack. This is exactly what happened with ETFs. It's exactly what happened with every asset. that it starts one place and it expands throughout the whole stack. Are there still at that level, obviously we've seen most of the big wire houses come online.

Are there any holdouts that we're not talking about? Vanguard is obviously the big one. And then there was an announcement that Vanguard was going to allow it, but it seemed sort of vague. Yeah. It seemed like I call me maybe. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. I don't know where they stand on that.

Look, there are probably 100 of these firms that matter. Probably 50 of them are fully open. 30 of them are conditionally open where you can do it on an unsolicited basis. 20 of them are still totally closed. So, yeah, there's still some holdouts. They're not maybe as family names as Vanguard is. But again, all of this will change over time. And it's actually not normal.

We and Crypto are mad that it took the wirehouses two years. They're fast. This is fast compared to how they move on everything else. It's just we're used to moving on a faster time. But make no mistake, it's just going to happen. These are just financial exposures. People want them. The doors will open.

They'll learn about them over time. It just moves not at a Twitter pace. It moves at a institutional pace. So when we were talking, it's got to be now a year ago or more, we would constantly say what percentage of people who want access to Bitcoin still can't get it? Yeah. Are those people still out there? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, no. I think those people are still out there. I think it may be 20% of wealth managers. It's still closed. Yeah, we're not 100% done. The door swings open slowly. It's swinging. The more conservative firms will get there.

You saw Vanguard break a little bit. They're firms that are more conservative than Vanguard. And for sure, the market volatility will slow that process down. So maybe it's 20, 25% are still closed, but we'll get it open. Okay, there's a question. I don't think I've ever asked you before. When you walk into a meeting, obviously they're probably meeting with BitWise and maybe others. Yeah, maybe.

Is that fair to say? I don't know. Are there others? No, not in my mind. What's the pitch for Bitwise specifically? Yeah, so mostly you don't have to sell against other people. Mostly it's a rising tide if they're there and they like you and they trust you, then they will go with you.

Really the pitch is we're built to serve the advisor community. So there's no other crypto asset manager I know that has 25 full-time salespeople that will show up in their office. That is a team of researchers that will answer any question that gets asked in 24 hours. We're sort of built to serve this advisor community. Other people are built to serve different communities, just how we're architected. That usually wins. I could say we're 25% cheaper than BlackRock.

I definitely say that. I could say that we donate to Bitcoin Core developers. I definitely say that. But in the end, these advisors want someone they can call, and that's sort of what Bitwise built its business to do. Right. Initially, I remember us talking about the fact that part of the pitch was being crypto-native, and as you said,

you know, giving money to Bitcoin Core, core and all those things. But I would imagine that as time passes and as the net is cast wider, the people you're talking to don't even know what that means. They mostly don't even know. No, that's exactly right. They just want someone to trust. And you can imagine them making two different decisions. Look, I love BlackRock. You can imagine them trusting BlackRock. Biggest name in asset management, incredible company. You can imagine them wanting to get any question they asked answered in 24 hours from experts in crypto. That's bit wise. Right. Those are just both good choices. And, you know, look, BlackRock's done very well. Our assets are up 15x since they

joined the market. It's a rising tide. I'm happy about it. But BlackRock doesn't have 25 people out there with charts and data pitching. Exclusively focused on crypto. I don't think so. Maybe they do, but that's all we do 24-7, 365. We do it in bull markets or bear markets. We're not going them to pitch them on AI or pitch them on bonds. It's crypto only. We live and breathe it. We've done it for eight years that has value for people. In any area of asset management, there's a specialist that wins the large share of the market, right? If you want to do private equity, you're probably talking to Blackstone or KKR because specialists matter. And Bitwise is that specialist. That's sort of our calling card. How much easier is the pitch when prices are going up than going down?

It's a little bit easier. It's a little bit easier. But again, if you're starting at zero, these prices are really attractive. I think I've been surprised. In previous bear markets, in FTX, the bear market felt existential. People were worried that Bitcoin was going to go to zero, that we were dead. Or the industry would be gone in the United States. In 2018, 2019, there was so much despair that there were those questions as well. And look, post-FDX, that was actually reasonable, right? The infrastructure was collapsing and the regulator hated you. There was a non-zero chance that it was just going to be a long, long winter. This winter doesn't feel like that, right? Most people look at this as an attractive entry point. They

don't see death and despair. They see the world getting more digital. They see rising concern about fiat currency. They see a four-year cycle that would naturally mean we have a pullback. And they think that's an attractive entry point. So I actually think it's a better bear market than 2020. I know it just worries me. Do we need to all be giving up and in the depths of despair to put bottom in? Well, I will say, do I have to get depressed to not want to pay anymore because I'm euphoric buying at these prices? Well, look at the fear and greed index. I do think crypto, retail entered full bare market, right? It hit its lowest level ever. It's at five. Yeah. If you want to think about an asymmetric opportunity, like put five on a scale of one to a hundred.

It's way over here. So I do think there is that level of despair. It's just only in crypto retail. People who haven't bought yet. It's attractive. It's exciting. Yeah, I was talking to Tillman Holloway earlier and he made a great point. He said it's depression for anybody who doesn't have cash and it's euphoria for That's exactly what does, which is an interesting way to frame it because if you've wanted to buy, I think it's fair to say that you'd rather buy $65,000 Bitcoin or 75,000 or 50 than 150. That is absolutely right. And look, a real thing that's true about Bitcoin is that if you think it's worth a dollar, it's really easy to imagine it's worth a million dollars. It's hard to, it's harder to argue the zero to one than it is one to a million. I think the world is accepted

that it's worth something. So I think that it's, it's worth something. So I think that that's, the people are licking their chops at the ability to buy it at these levels. It doesn't mean we go straight back up. Bottoming is a process. But yeah, I like that framing. If you have cash, it's closer to euphoria. These are attractive on a 10-year time horizon. Okay, so we talked a lot about Bitcoin, but obviously there's a number of other products.

How is the narrative, or I would say that the bear market or winter affected the narrative for Yves, Solana and the others that you're launching, have launched or are looking to launch? Look, it's really interesting right now, actually. I haven't talked about this much. But institutions love tokenization and stable coins. You guys, we've talked about that before. They assume it's fait accompli, right? So that market is going to be many trillions of dollars.

The questions now are valuation focused. Is Solana at $50 billion overvalued or undervalued versus the opportunity? Is Ethereum at its current prices over or undervalued? So it's a really interesting dynamic. Institutions assume everything will be tokenized and effectively assume everything will move over stable coins. They're max bullish. It's just, are the valuations right?

And I think that's actually a great question for crypto to answer. Okay, so I've been actually thinking about that quite a lot. I think it's exceptionally positive that we get to a place where we fundamentally value things based on utility and usage like any other market. But if we're being honest, that also means that if they were previously valued or priced by speculation, could that actual floor price be much lower before they're able to capture upside?

Yeah. Like, are they wildly overpriced because it was only speculators that bought them in the first place? I don't have a conclusion on that, by the way. I think that's the biggest question in crypto. When you boil down all the bare market question, I think that's the question that mattered. Look, Bitcoin, it's easy to argue, right?

Store of value, $30 trillion market, it's going to a million. very easy. On these other assets, I think this valuation question is the number one question to ask. When we do the math, we end up bullish, but not 100x bullish. I think that is the reality. Look, some of these are real businesses. Like, ChainLink is a real business. Solana has real GDP and real revenue, but the targets you end up with, again, are attractive, but it's not like, it's not a hundred-out. It's not what people showed up for in 2017 and 2008. No, it's a more mature market, but that's the market we're in.

Look, I still think it's probably more attractive than parts of the AI space, which where valuations have really soared. But we're going to get into like this odd part of being a value-oriented crypto investor. I think that's one of the themes coming out of the market. Jordy Fissor said the exact same thing yesterday. There you go. I think it's real. It is real.

So having the conversations then, we know that you have people finally allocated. to Bitcoin, although I'm not sure Hunter's tweet specifically said it was a Bitcoin. I think I just met in this market, I just assume it. Are you still having as many conversations about Ethereum and Solana? The early Bitcoin ETF buyers, are they now still, you know, saying maybe it's time for me to take the next step? Or is it kind of how retail is that there's the shine off of all coins and still more of a focus? So, yeah, it's an interesting question. So conversations are 50-50 Bitcoin and stable.

coins and tokenization. So it's it's not Bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana. It's Bitcoin and Stapoints and tokenization. And then there's the secondary question of how you play stable coins and tokenization. What we see there is people just don't know, which I think is fair. That's right. But us being me. I can't. Oh, me too. I don't know where the value going to approve. And so what I think we're going to see is them just buy companies that are building on that space and a suite of crypto assets that are building on this space. I don't think people will try to pinpoint one or the other.

I think they're going to sort of take a diversified approach to that. Sounds ripe for an index. It does sound right for an index one. I agree with that. But look, I think that's the right approach, right? I don't know where value is going to accrue. Is it going to accrue to USDC or Coinbase or Robin Hood or Ethereum or Tron or Ceyn or Solana on stable coin growth?

You tell me, I think the jury's still out, right? Yeah. But are stable coin is going to be bigger in 10 years than they are today? I think, yeah. Yeah, this has been where I get stuck thinking about it every single time. That's right. Because, like, I know stable coins are going to be huge, but I don't know if Circle is priced correctly.

I think it's hard to sell. Because if interest rates come down massively, the revenue for stable coins drops dramatically. That happened to be publicly traded. So, you know, tether, obviously, will just do whatever tether does. They only have 100 people. It doesn't matter.

But if you're publicly traded stable coin, it's a great business, but is a great business for a shareholder? Maybe, maybe not. I don't. I think it's the greatest question. Look, stable coins are going to create an enormous amount of value in the world.

They're an enormous, valuable technological innovation. They move faster. They move 24-7. They're available globally. They can lower the cost of payments. A huge amount of value is going to be created. The question of where that value accrues, I think, is a great question. My view as an investor is just buy everything that's associated with it because you'll benefit no matter what happens.

But this was true in the early days of the internet, right? Was it infrastructure plays? Was it apps? Was it the large caps? Was it the small caps? The right answer there was to sort of buy everything and be kind of, I'm not. kind of right. I think that's probably the right answer here. I mean, we saw what happened to Ethereum when, I mean, Circle effectively went public and

then Tom Lee, Tom Lead, right? But he went on TV and he said, stable coins are the next big thing. Ethereum is what you need to buy if you want exposure to stable coins. Yeah. Right? And I think anyone in the industry was like, I think stable coins are kind of going to be everywhere and commoditized and maybe it's not just Ethereum. But the narrative or the thought of that for investors set Ethereum on fire. I agree with that. For a while. Yeah, well, narrative matters. matters, and these are, again, you have to think of this as like a series A startup. What are you looking for in a series A startup?

You're actually not looking for high revenue. You're looking for growth of use and growth of revenue. That matters more. I'd rather have a fast growing thing than something that has a lot of revenue but is growing slowly. I think that's the right mental framework. But narrative will drive a lot of it. If people assume Ethereum is the play, Ethereum will do well for a while. Ultimately, it'll peel back to this value, though.

When you think about everything being tokenized, do you think that it will largely happen on existing blockchains? Or do you think we're just going to be hearing about JP Morgan coin and BlackRock coin? It's a big battle. It's a big battle. You can see right now the sort of mechanics of Wall Street kind of capture that within its own blockchains and its own isolated areas. My bet is on open source. My bet is on global and diversified. But again, I think that's an uncertain bet.

If you look at the history of technology, usually open and global winds, but not always. Sometimes the captive network dominates. Sometimes there's regulatory capture. I think we'll find out. But I actually couldn't tell you which side of the ledger. My bet, again, Ethereum Solano will be the backbone. That's actually my bet. But I think you can't be certain about it.

Interestingly as well, I think we had this period where there was a fear in the early days that there wouldn't be enough block space for the billions of online. And then we got so much block space and so many blockchains, and now we're trying to scramble to fill it. But with that everything tokenized future, it feels like the pie might be big enough that everybody wins in some way, shape, or form. It might not be as black and white as I presented it.

I totally agree. Look, it's a classic infrastructure build out. What always happens? There's always a shortage, and then there is always a glut, and then it always fills up in the end. That's what happened with internet bandwidth. That's what's happening with AI chips. There'll be a glut of AI capacity at some point for sure.

And then AI will eventually suck it up. The interesting thing about crypto, we don't talk about that much, but you're right. We were bandwidth constrained. Now we have way too much bandwidth. And eventually we'll fill it up with the $300 trillion of tokenized assets that are moving on chain. I think the big winners are likely to be the leaders right now. I think it's likely to be Ethereum. It's likely to be Solana.

But you can't discount some of the more interesting. new ideas, right? You can't discount what Canton is building. Well, that's it. That one's the one that blew my mind. Absolutely, and they're doing real revenue and they have real partnerships. They're very well run. You need exposure to that. You can't discount layer zero launching, right? You, it's early, right? It's early. In any technological boom when it's early, you can't be certain the leaders will ultimately win. Yeah, when the DCCC made that announcement and Kenton Network's coin didn't move, it's like, you know we're in a bare market, but then

It moved. It did. So it took a couple weeks for, I think, that to, like, register. I don't know if that's what did it, but it did finally move, which gave me some hope. Yeah. Well, that is the bear market where good news is stored as potential energy, but not recognized immediately. And you're seeing that as well.

I mean, every day. Every day. I think Uniswap didn't move enough on the BlackRock news. I think that is, you know, that is the pure sign that we're in a bare market. But there are these fundamental good things that are happening. And, yeah, Canton is a good example. Do you think that the chains will effectively become specialized? You know, like the chain for this, chain for that,

or that certain kinds of institutions will adopt everyone. I actually just don't know. I don't know. I think there's a good case for that to be made. But I think it's just an uncertain future. I know I keep shilling my index-based background. No, but I think I agree. That's the approach.

That's exactly right. The thing you're confident in, or I'm confident in, is tokenization, right, will be hundreds of trillions of dollars. Will it be specialized chains? Will it be a few chains? Will it be geographically located? Will privacy play a role here? How easy will be to move across chains?

I think all of that is uncertain at this. Well, in the last cycle, and even before, people would ask me, what's the best way to invest in crypto? They see you on and they want to know. And my answer was always effectively the index approach, but it was just by the layer ones. Right. So I'm not going to catch the 100x Metaverse coin

or the 50x DeFi coin, but if it's on Solana and I own Solana, I might get a, you know, 25%. bump or something, that's just the native crypto mentality that leads to indexing. It's true. Now you can include publicly traded equities or... That's exactly right. I think own the field. Look, every investor probably 80-20s it, right? You need 20% that you're a D-Gen and speculate on because we're humans and we all have views. I think you just need to bucket that as you're 20%, so it doesn't affect the 80%, where we're just betting on crypto, Bitcoin, tokenization, stable coins for the long haul.

Yeah, Vitalik recently made some comments and sort of set the Ethereum world on fire again, as he tends to, where to summarize, we don't need layer twos anymore. It's all going to be on the layer one. We're cheap or fast, and that's where we're going to focus. Pretty big statement. What do you think? Well, I think it's like the Steve Jobs moment returning to Ethereum for Vitalik. I think it's going to make Ethereum one of the leaders out of the bear market. I think it gives it narrative juice. I think it's the right thing for the chain to do. Look, again, it's the same story. It really,

really was constrained. Remember when transactions were spiking to $100 eat? You'd try to mince a $10 NFT and it would cost $500. It was stupid, right? It was stupid. And so they needed an emergency solution. The emergency solution was layer two's. They now don't need that. What does that mean for layer twos now, though? It means they're going to be ultra specialized and they're going to be more sovereign. And yeah, and they'll try to maybe their market is smaller, but it is specialized. But that's just the nature of this market. And again, it really points to the unknowability at this early stage. But I do think it's going to make Ethereum one of the leaders. It needed a narrative push. Narratives contribute to leading you out of bare

markets. It now has that like that Steve Jobs returning to Apple-style idea. And I think it's going to, I think it's to be one of the leaders. I didn't have the blackrop on Uniswap on my card. I mean, I mentioned it before, but they're, it's a crazy thing. The even crazier thing to me, was Martin Small, their CFO, saying we're going to tokenize all of our ETFs in the next three to 12 months. And I know that sounds like a long time in crypto Twitter, but if you're in a big bank, three to 12 months means it's basically done. There is no chance it's not happening. That's the world we're going to be in in 27. Black Rocks on Uniswap. All their ETFs are tokenized.

It's hard not to be bullish when you think about that world. But the market isn't paying attention to it. I don't know why I'm not buying Uniswold. instead of talking. Exactly. BlackRock literally had to buy Uniswap for this to happen, correct? Yes. Yeah, they took a strategic stake in Uniswap.

This is probably just the first thing they're doing. They are not going to miss this train, right? BlackRock, remember, missed the last big financial innovation, which was ETFs. They had to buy their way in. They bought I shoes. They weren't a native ETF issuer. They're not missing this tokenization. I think defy assets in general are probably undervalued.

I think AVE is probably, like, I know the tokenomics is not perfect. I think those can be fixed. I agree. But the usage and the growth, I think it's, you know, it's like 10x, 100x growth. Yeah, because the institutions are going to plug into them inevitably for yield. Of course. They're not going to build their own DFI particles when these work. They don't need to.

And these worked through every collapse. It's like the untold stories of FtX and Celsius and Voyager and Blodify was that it was orderly in DFI. Smart contracts worked, collateral was liquidated, people got their margin calls. 10-10. Same thing. Yeah. I mean, these systems are incredibly robust, right? Incredible uptime through massive volatility.

And yeah, institutions of course, institutional defy is going to be another one of the narratives that leads us out of this fair market. And I think people really underestimate the scale of it. I needed my shot of Hogan bullishness today to get me going. There you go. I see it in the comments. They're like, that makes me so bold. And then they're like, mcglone.

That's how I feel too. Every day that email comes in, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. But credit to him. Oh, his email, like, man, how do you come up with these headlines? They make me depressed every morning, it's good. I need that shot as well, though, I think you can't get. For sure, we all do. Well, Matt, thank you, man.

Thank you, it's a pleasure. Super fun.