The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Is Setting Up For A BREAKOUT - $853m Just Flooded Into ETFs

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Bitcoin holds above $65K as investors return to ETFs ahead of a major week of inflation data. We cover the strongest Bitcoin ETF inflows since April, the collapse of BIP-110’s miner support, and why gold continues to outperform as major banks raise their price targets. We also look at Berkshire Hathaway putting billions back into stocks, and what the latest Iran and Strait of Hormuz developments mean for markets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is Bitcoin finally setting up for a breakout. ETFs just had their largest inflows since April $853 million flooding in last week. Also, Sailor sold some more Bitcoin and the market once again does not seem to care. Are we absorbing bad news before heading up? We're going to talk about that today, of course, with David and Mike. And then we've got David Young joining in about 10 minutes. Let's go. Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to all of you and to all of me. I have been gone for about 11 or 12 days, pretending that European beaches are actually beaches when they are in fact just rock faces that meet the ocean. They don't have sand. Nobody knows that except for me. The European mind cannot comprehend sandy beaches. We're going to go ahead and bring on Dave and Mike right now. Good morning, gentlemen. How are you? Dave's in a real beach.

Well, I actually am, although this is a background. I mean, you know, there is a beach here about, you know, a few hundred yards from me. But so be it. I know what in the McLaren shirt is that in celebration of Landau's finally getting a victory there a week ago? That plus it's Bitcoin Orange. So, you know, I figured both of them. Bitcoin at around between 64 and 65,000 after Sailor has been selling Bitcoin for three weeks, I think is pretty important. But we are going to get to that later.

Yes, I do look at the F1 results and every once in a while. I wear based on what would I see. I need to do this name. All right, Mike, morning meeting. Where are we at? You got to catch me up because I haven't been paying attention for about 12 days. That's perfect. You got to get away.

A great place to get away. I was a student in another life in Europe and it made me really appreciate American beaches. And by the way, the Bitcoin shirt should be red. Just where we should. Let's see your Ferrari jersey out, Dave. I have one of those. I have one of those. So when the clerk won, if we had had a show, I would have warned it.

So what I appreciate about Anna Wong, and she's just straightforward. And she said, yeah, August is a funny payroll number. There are 50,000 job losses from local governments. It should be notable. That's an economic effect. It's typically not seasonal. She expects some of the dating forward to be weaker. Long rates above 5%.

She said is part of it. Housing, industrial production, things like that. Local government budgets are shrinking, except the next payroll number to be weak. unemployment rate is falling for the wrong reason, shrinking labor force. Expect that to rise. Sheer point was 47% for rate huck at the height at the next FOMC meeting, 917. She thinks is way too high. CPI expects another soft number core year-over-year, year-over-year to drop to 2.4% from 2.6%.

The current point is the lowest. We could have the lowest core rate since 2021. And she thinks that FMC Hawks who've been pointing this will get crushed. I use that word she didn't. I should have. And his war, she says, is making it his case for using broader measures and PC is becoming decent, legitimate. Clear evidence that the tariffs paththroughs are peaking. One example is the auto equipment is declining year over year.

And she doesn't think the Fed's going to hike in SEP if they're dated and in the data dependent. Ira Jersey came out. And same thing. He said the next key move he thinks going to fed, it's going to probably going to be a cut. But he did say the point, it's going to be difficult for the 30 year to rally into the year end part because there's less foreign demand. Japanese bonds, these have a price and decent alternative now, certainly when they're not hedged or when they're hedge with USDA. He does think the two-year note at 4.2% is stubbornly high. If we get the weak CPI, I don't expect, you expect treasuries to be a tick into a bull steep one this week. Jackson Hole is obviously quite important, thinks that Worse is going to focus on his task forces and thinks the next, like I said, next Fed moves going to be easy.

Chris Kane or equity strategist pointed out, yeah, we're at all-time highs. Most, you know, our stays are not so high. But one thing he did point out is we went back and checked all last, all, all, all, all-time highs in the past. And one thing that's really significant happens after that is you get lower volatility. By the way, I should have mentioned that this is a time of your volatility, usually bottoms. Earnings are incredible. 82% reported.

32% air earnings per sure is growth. Last quarter was 29%. It's the highest growth in about 13 years. Earnings fantastic and tech is leading the way. So not much there. From dollar currency, FX, Audrey Chilbrenman. She points she thinks we're going to see further dollar weakness. Not so much against the yen, but potential against the euro.

She's the euro's climbing higher and potentially yen going back to 160 at least. And then I did my commodity outlook. And that was, this is where volatile usually bottoms, the seasonal kind of stuff. I think copper is an accident waiting to happen. I point out some of those reasons. And bottom line, I can dig into some of that stuff later in our conversation. is to me the bottom line is that 5.21% yield on the 30 year. Will we be able to say at the end of the year that we closed here or higher the highest bond yield in 25 years?

Bitcoin's never seen that before. Gold hasn't seen that well. And the key question I'd ask myself is, and I'll ask you, and I'll dig in later, is whole markets aren't supposed to trade below the 200-day mover and averages in crude oil. I'm sorry, and Bitcoin is. I'm sorry, not Bitcoin. Bitcoin is mean that, but gold. is they'll keep to make the point.

Gold is trading below. It's 200-day moving ever. So I'm still, Dave was right. Last week we're supposed to bounce, but it's, I think, in a transition to a bear market.

It did get a nice bounce, right? Oh, sure. There was a few stories here. You know, Jamie Diamond's J.M. J.P. Morgan's. He's gold reaching 5,000 an ounce by Q4, bullish case for investors seeking the hedge. Of course,

we had the story that China has been adding gold massively. But, you know, one week of decent price action does not make a bull market. I mean, yeah. Sorry, go ahead, Mike. It feels very much to me like Bitcoin and cryptos and gold and precious metals are all in the same camp. They were 2025 trade.

Everybody points out all the same things that some of us pointed out for years. And they just went off too much. Now they face a force that we haven't seen in a quarter century, the highest bond yields in a quarter century. How long is that going to last? And then I point out, if you look at metals, they're the highest, the greatest correlation on a hundred-day basis. basis to the S&P 500, most only copper, ever with the stock market going up. So what's going to make that change as we get to Q4? And that my point is this is the time of year of volatility usually bottom.

You're supposed to put in on positions to expect volatility to pick up. Like in May, you put on positions expecting volatile to go down. So here we are. And I just look at gold, as Dave was right, it was absolutely supposed to bounce for 4,000. But is it a new, is it a bull market? I think it's transition to bear market. I point out that major headwind. high correlation of stock market complete dependency on it's basically sock puppets

and five point two one percent in the long bond Dave she's your own adventure remember those books where you ask here here's the thing so gold is fixed roughly I mean inflation of gold is less than two percent the dollar inflation is somewhere around seven eight percent in terms of because of fiscal dominance. So every year, gold has to increase 6% just to stay even. And if you're not watching that, then that's going to fuck around with your charts. And as a result, I made the statement about a year ago. I thought equilibrium price for gold is around 4,500. It will probably go higher. It did. At the time, you know, I'm like, well, you know, it could keep going, but it feels a little topy here, but I wouldn't know. Anyway, it overcorrected, went down to

4,000. Today, you know, we're sitting still a little bit below that equilibrium level, but honestly, you know, we've had a year. So, you know, you got to increase that equilibrium level to buy the whatever, 6% of increased dollar inflation. You know, people keep talking about the debasement trade. Understand what they're saying. What they're saying is as far as the eye can see, we are going to be printing money. I mean, we have the, quote, conservative president with a $2 trillion dollar deficit. And I say that conservative with air quotes because they want to spend so much money on defense, quite obviously, you're not going to be able to do anything. I don't know who the next president is going to be. I don't know what the next Congress is going to do, but I don't see any chance of fiscal

deficit shrinking anytime soon without enormous hypergrowth. Now, God forbid, we go into a recession. That deficit's going to balloon. And this is something that I've been saying for a long time, but I want to make this extraordinarily clear. If we go, if you are right and we tip into the wealth effect reversing to the point where we have what is considered a recession and tax receipts fall, we could end up with three or four trillion dollar deficits. That matters, right? You know, it absolutely matters.

Now, I think that the Federal Reserve understands this, which is why I think the chances of them raising rates in September is, and as I said to Scott, for those. who are remember the movie is exactly the same as blutarski's GPA in the movie animal house zero zero zero zero zero i mean senator blutarsky it worked well for him yeah he's senator blutarsky that's right i mean and by the way someone with a gpa of zero point zero zero is about as smart as what chris murphy has been saying about the clarity act these people are morons and it's it's unbelievable you know some of the stuff that we're being treated to. We're being treated to people who are, literally would fail seventh grade math. I mean, I don't know. I mean, it's pathetic. But go back to Warsh and

the Federal Reserve. I mean, we could end up with a full-blown Federal Reserve disaster. We have not seen a Federal Reserve split where the chair basically doesn't get their way in a very, very long time. But I don't think there's even a slight chance that they raise rates, unless CPI has some massive spike or massive positive print. But fiscal dominance is the key thing. And the reason I go to fiscal dominance and just to catch up, David, is that when you talk about gold being in a bare market, I laugh at that.

I mean, it could drop a little bit from here, but I think it's more or less where it should be, and people will continue to buy it as long as all the major governments of the world are printing more dollars. It's that simple. Now, could we, was it a drop from 5500 down to 4,000? Does that qualify as a bear market? Sure it does.

We say 20% drops are a bare market. So yeah, you were right. And it's now below its 200-day moving average. I find you get very poor if you think that bear markets extend well below a 200-week moving average. You know, when you start falling below the major averages, your losses, unless there's something very substantive going on, that tends not to be the time to sell. And so that's a large part of where I'm at. Mike, you were talking about daily, right?

Can we add this two weeks ago, I did the same thing. I accidentally corrected you and you said a daily moving average and I was looking at the weekly, right? All right. I just want to make sure we're looking at the same. Well, even on daily, that's true. But as far as gold is concerned, remember, there was a huge speculative bubble that happened and that money is still out there.

Do I think it returns to gold? I doubt it. I mean, look, silver is back over 60. You know, silver is reestablishing a new equilibrium. Silver, for those who don't remember, Mike was completely right. Silver was, it was, it went from the, in the 20s, and it went up into the 60 to 70 range. Above 70, they changed margin requirements. It exploded up to 120 and came crashing all the way down below 60.

And now we're back between 60 and 70 again. I think it's a new equilibrium, you know, but the truth is, that that run to 120 was driven by enormous speculation. And Mike nailed it when he said that was what happening. The smelters are going to go, this is going to happen. All that stuff is true. But equilibriums are, you know, can be reestablished at higher levels because we have more dollars. It's that simple.

Anyway. I feel like this is becoming a pattern with me. But I agree with Dave. You know, I feel like gold is a shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, kind of situation. And it doesn't mean that, you know, gold can't climb back up again, but it's not going to make the same parabolic highs that it made the last time. It was a momentum trade. Like people were chasing the central banks, chasing the other buyers in China who were

trying to accumulate gold because they were worried about whatever fiscal risks were kind of imposed on them. And now are you going to see the same kind of thing repeat? I mean, people might chase it, but I don't think we're going to see the same levels that we saw. in the last one. Like, you could absolutely do the gold trade again. I just would say, like, beware. Your expectations need to be capped at this point. It's not going to reach the same, like, you know, like doubling, like, the value that

you saw in the last round. Yeah. Mike. Yeah, I got a follow up on that because right now gold is, um, everybody gets a fundamentals. Dave, you said it. You chat GPT. He'll say all the same thing. everybody's printing, you know, stuff that kept me a porma bowl gold for, at least at Bloomberg,

I was known as the pormor bowl and gold. And then certain times it tells you to sell. And that is when it gets two times above, it's 200-week moving average, it's still, you mentioned 200-week, it's still 50% above that level. There's certain times you're supposed to just be selling when they're young. And I get all the bullishness. But the point is, even cryptos have never seen a long bond competition. Right.

We are right now at the highest year-end level of 5.21%. And then we have these correlations. Because gold's correlation to the S&B 500 right now, 60 days, is the highest in the history of gold with the market going up. That's the stock market going up. The signals we have, so that's why my job is not to just point out the obvious, basically, stuff that everybody says in every gold conference, which I go to a lot of them, it's to look forward and look ahead. And sometimes they get pissed off when you say different things. But I have to point out, gold right now, I think, is entered a bear market. And that's why I say facetiously, aren't bull market supposed to stay above their 200-day moving averages?

We've had a bounce. And it just starts, it's trading to me. like the same mantra I've heard in crypto since October. People keep playing the old thing. The trade is over in cryptos and gold until we find the low price cure. And the bottom line right now, I see, and I just point out some of those technicals, some of those leading indicators. For instance, right now, gold's volatility. It's 260-day volatility. It's two times the S&B 500. That's the highest in 20 years. It's not a store of value of market. And then, yeah, I get all the currency debase and everything. We can just point out what's going on in China. Okay. So just point out the key facts about gold. And the key

bottom line is we can get through this year of gold can sustain these levels with bond yields at 5.2% great. But again, we're completely correlated to stock market as the crypto market is. By the way, this is a bottoming time of year for volatility. I want to make a simple point because in introductory logic, they teach you something really important. There is a big difference in causation and correlation. And it is hugely important to understand. When you have a causation effect going on, obviously correlations will observe. probably become higher, right? We have a causation effect here. The causation is we are printing more currency. More currency is there. Therefore, all prices go. So to expect in that kind of world,

we're projecting out, we see even bigger deficits going, and it's, by the way, it's not just the U.S. It's everywhere. It's Japan. It's China. It's Europe. It's everywhere. That is why correlations look higher because there's now a causation event that's moving everything. Now, all of that said, the last thing you said is hugely important. And I agree with you. The fact that gold's volatility is so high and it's higher than the S&P is telling you. And it's more about the stability and the inflows of capital. Capital is moving into, has been consistently moving into the stock market because people feel that. that's the only way they can keep up on this,

this treadmill of, you know, trying to keep up with inflation. And so as a result, and the U.S., all the U.S. capital flows are moving there. That's why the stock market has been cushioned on the downside, and gold hasn't.

And gold had that much hotter ball of money from the rest of the world using incredible leverage, because you can't get 20 to 1 or 100 to 1 leverage on the stock market very easily, but you can in gold. That's something I pointed out a year ago. I get to the same conclusion, but in a different way from Dave, because I think that what you're seeing from gold is the front end of the yield curve, whereas what's happening with equities right now is due to the long end of the yield curve. We've hit peak yields for the long end of the yield curve, and that's definitely been supported by some anecdotal events like the situational awareness thing and other things where like so much of that was like sold off. So it kind of created a net effect, which creates its positive.

positive for stocks. But gold has been pressured by the idea of like, well, how reliable do we find Warsh and how much do we think he's actually going to be able to hike rates? If not at all, then, you know, given like what we saw with non-farm payrolls and perhaps what we're going to see with CPI this week, then we're going to see that, you know, there's lower chances, at least lower than what's kind of priced in of the Fed being able to hike rates. Well, then gold prices are going to do well. So those things are both moving up, but they're being moved by different. on the yield curve. So that's kind of how I see it. But like to Dave's point, like, that doesn't necessarily mean that these things aren't going to like have a push higher. The only part where I kind of question this the thesis is that I don't necessarily know if we're really going to reach a fiscal dominance kind of stage. Like obviously you see this a lot in emerging markets and other places. Is this going to happen to the U.S.? That's always debatable, right? That's, you know, brings you into like the whole like hey like uh can the u.s actually spend whatever they want kind of situation like you know i don't know like i this part like i feel like we could be on the

brink of a fiscal dominant situation there's a lot that the treasury can actually do to control the yield curve you can do things with fanny and freddy and other things as well but i don't know i feel like we have like a lot more tools before we kind of get to that point i don't think we're at that's data. Let me be very, let me just, let me just explain. When I say fiscal dominance, I'm talking about the fact that that we're there will just be more dollars. It's that simple. Yeah. Right. More dollars. And the treasure. And I, add to that point, I was just going to say quickly, you know, we saw that when Powell eventually cut rates, bond yields went up, right? So like, that, that to me was sort of a signal in my mind of

fiscal dominance where the Fed attempted to do things in the market called BS. So you put, you share the screen that I shared, Scott. I think this is a really interesting one. So this is a simple analysis going back to 30 years. The blue line is the Fed fund rates. The green line is real rates calculated just simply by CPI inflation and Fed fund rates. And what you see is since 2000, the vast majority of the time we've had negative rates. Also the vast majority of time we've had the CPI inflation below target. And if you could find a correlation between, real rates and controlling inflation on this, then you have much better eyesight than me.

And I think that, and I know that Warsh understands this, because he's talked about it, right? You know, it's very important to understand. The mechanism that rates has towards controlling inflation is to stop inflationary expectations, to stop labor unions from demanding more, to try to bring down aggregate demand if it's demand-led inflation.

But if inflation is happening because we're printing money because of the government deficit and crowding out effects and because of oil shocks, it doesn't have anything. Moreover, when inflation will actually increase the deficit by causing the U.S. to have to pay more if rates on the long end or, well, actually they're borrowing on the short end these days. So rates directly impact, you know, what we're spending happen. It has potentially the opposite effect. And so the notion that you just, that there's this lever that the Federal Reserve has, oh, they raise rates. to cut inflation. It's like, no. Empirically, that's just not true. Yeah, that was a much more like a way of saying what I was getting at. Well, I just thought, yeah, the great thing about AI, you can generate these things pretty quickly, right? I would imagine that among the four of us, just to kind of wrap the Fed conversation, none of us believes there's going to be a rate hike, correct?

So that, to me, I'm glad you brought that out, Scott, because that's a big trade. Right now, it's almost 50% probability. the markets price for the Fed to hike at the September 19th meeting. It's silly. Just the concept of a person who was hired to cut rates and the potential for what would mean Mr. Trump would absolutely blow his top if Mr. Warsh were to, I mean, it would be so entertaining. It's almost impossible. I would just had too much fun with that. But we all know the number one thing the Fed gets, and I think certainly Besson gets being the former trader, is just jawbone. If we get to say a little bit of drop in the S&B 500, inflation numbers are already going the way.

They've potentially peaked. They're heading lower. Crude oil's probably peaked and heading lower. Natural gas is collapsing. That's the number one measure of heat, electricity, and fertilizer in this country. All that stuff's pointing that way. If we just, if they can, obviously they're getting the market to tighten for themselves already in the bond market, but it's the stock market that matters.

Now, if they can just get a little bit of a correction, we're going to get normal situation. Let's just point out the facts I'm looking for for next year. Normal drop in S&B 500, say it ends up on. change on the air or just makes a high and stays down for a little while is for a CPI to go to zero and crude oil will go to 40. That's a normal cycle. Remember we're a massive surplus supplier of crude oil and energy, natural gas, most food. There's an election in November and Mr. Trump has to get prices lower. But to me, that's the macro. But the Fed is not much to do about nothing. They're jawboning. And they look over the stock market, I think, like any copper trader,

looks at the stock market, well, it better go up because that's the only way I'm going to make money. all metals, it better go up in money. And oh, by the way, if the stock market drops a little bit, case closed. I don't have to tighten. Market leaves for me or tighten for me, and that can ease the next trade. Yeah, let's move on to Bitcoin. More specifically, let's move on to one Michael Saylor. Now we mentioned it at the top, but strategy sells 1690 Bitcoin,

raises $653 million from MSTR shares. So this is basically the second week in a row that, I believe the second week in row, that strategy has once again sold. There was a pause, but there was obviously the larger sale a few weeks before. Interestingly, I think they sold 690 Bitcoin here, which was $108.6 million and bought exactly $108.6 million of STRC back, so very clear where that's going. And then using the sale of MSTR shares to increase the cash reserve from $4 billion to $4.65 billion, I believe. interesting here.

There was a fixed strategy here for as long as we can remember of issue securities, issue debt, issue anything you can to buy Bitcoin. Now we're selling the Bitcoin to buy back all of those instruments that were issued.

What I really want to know is what happens when STRC goes back to par? We're getting there. So I got to say the STRC flood was kind of nonsensical when you look back. But I think pre-market, if I can get this to close, I can't.

95, but, premarket 95.4, who really start buying back Bitcoin with the SCRC, that they're buying back now and start selling SCRC. It's going to be a very strange, I mean, break this. Personally, it's hard for me to say this, but in some respect,

if you look at way, when the biggest bubbles of buying, the biggest bubbles of selling, micro-stratory trading is not quite as reliable as the inverse Kramer, but it's pretty close. It's pretty clear. On the bottom by the top.

Yeah. You know, look, the overall concept behind the company, what they're going to do and where it will be is not affected by these kind of fringing moves. And they're very fringy moves. We're talking about very small percentages. But the actual when he buys is top smashing and when he sells his bottom hitting is the way it's looking. And why does this matter? Well, it matters. The most important thing is it disproves this doom loop narrative.

I mean, there just isn't one, right? The notion that that that was very popular a month ago was let us not forget that as Bitcoin dropped, Sailor is going to be forced to buy, first to sell there will be no buyers and it will be a forced sell of all this Bitcoin in the market that will crush the market. I think that that narrative is more or less dead unless there's something exogenous that takes Bitcoin down. I remember having the argument where people were saying he needed to sell, you know, $10 billion worth of Bitcoin now to protect shareholders.

and I was like, so you want them to wreck shareholders to protect them from maybe having to sell and hurting shareholders later? Look, the value of micro strategy as a company is going to be dependent upon their ability to get Bitcoin into the financial system and use it for innovative products, period. Other than that, it's just pure leverage play. And that leverage play is a small amount of leverage, actually. It's not a huge one. But this weeks or last weeks, because this is always a week, weak lag. This is a bit of a head scratcher for me. I can't understand it because I don't see a tax benefit to it unless there's something I'm missing because when he buys back and capture his money

by buying back STRC that he sold at 100 and he buys it back in the 80s or 90s, he doesn't have to pay a capital gains on that. He doesn't actually decrease, I guess, the dividend obligation and he's buying something at a discount that now has a higher dividend than it did before, right? So I guess I can argue that that is accretive in some way, shape, or form. Not to Bitcoin, for sure. but to, you know, investors. Yeah, no, I understand. I mean, David, I'm curious what you think because you look at this all the time and I'm sure you get asked a lot about it.

I used to look at it all the time. I'm a free agent right now. So I get to the pleasure of just kind of like sitting back and watching. But it's funny because I'm not on this show regularly, right? And I remember the last time I was here, which is only a few weeks ago. And we had this exact conversation because at that time, I think we all had agreed that like, no, people were worried about this at that time. We're like, no, this is the peak.

Like, this is it. Like, the fact that like, you know, the, you know, the, you know, Mike strategy is forced to sell and all these things. If it's no longer phasing the market, then that was the, like, we didn't say it was the bottom. But, like, I thought that we were like 58 was, 5758 was kind of close to the bottom for it. Because at that point, this kind of news really wasn't moving markets anymore. And maybe some of that's also just, we've kind of gotten numb.

to it. Like, not for nothing. We know this game psychological. A lot of it comes down to like, all right, first time it happened. Big panic. We're like, oh, my God, he's selling his Bitcoin. He said, when you never do that, like, like, what's going to happen? And then like the second time it happens, the third time it happens. By the time it kind of gets around to this, we're like, eh, all right, selling it's a Bitcoin. We know his timing isn't great most of the time. So maybe this doesn't really bother us anymore. I still think that like, to your point, Scott, like when, like when we get to par, what actually happens? happens. My view is that like this is a great indicator actually for kind of saying like,

well, how do we time when do we get into Bitcoin and when does it come back? Because we're in the summer doldrums. liquidity in our markets aren't great right now. Like probably this will drag on for I would say another four to six weeks would be my guess. And then that puts us sometime in September, which timing wise also puts us before that 10-10 event from 2025, I think that that's going to be like kind of the sweet spot for people to start accumulating Bitcoin again and starting to come back. I mean, it's always hard to time these things. But that's kind of how I see the situation in the moment. Yeah, I sort of alluded to this in the intro, but you have obviously the market is now.

Yeah, the market is seemingly immune to sailor selling. And I think the market has priced him out as a buyer. So I think that's good. The point being that we've had a lot of bad news and price doesn't seem to want to go down. We had the cold card hack, which like, you know, we haven't had the opportunity to discuss, but to me is a huge event because it's all the people who self-custodied and did things right. And they still lost their money. So to me, that's worse than an exchange hack and could have been very poor for the price of Bitcoin in the short term. We have BIP 110 failing, which was the dumbest nerd argument that I could not follow no matter how hard I tried anyways, but it made my, you know, but we just had a soft, hard, failed, succeeded. I don't know who you ask fork of Bitcoin. And, you know, we have a war in Iran and we have, you know, Trump floating the idea. Even the macro right seems like it could be bad.

And nothing seems to be at least sending it down anymore. I feel like this is all part and parcel of the same idea, which is these are signs of resilience for Bitcoin. And I think a lot of people kind of thrown in the towel. Some, you know, well-known, like talking heads have all kind of like said like, like, I'm moving on and moving on to AI. or the things. And I'm just like, well,

these are all like bottom signals, if anything, that, you guys are all out of it. Like, if anything, I feel like this is the right time to actually start being more interested in crypto.

And meanwhile, we had the SDCs weeks since April. But I got to jump in here. It's been the right time for the last $30,000, $30,000 in Bitcoin. The point is it's a horribly performing market. It's down. It's called a bare market,

like, exactly. And it's, And it's showing significant failure this week. That's going to be 500 total return is 14%. Bitcoin is down 25%. It's already flunked the test. The leading indicators warning you.

Heed the warning. Now we have the other maybe 100 Bitcoins or Bitcoin competitors or cryptos, wherever you want to call them competing. There's an unlimited supply of these things. And they're all heading lower. They have to find a low price cure. They're nowhere near there yet. But heed the leaders.

One thing if you look at Bitcoin and you take it overlay it with the chart of the NASDAQ, the Biden by S&B, final they're both tilting downward now. That NASDAQ absolutely has to go up. It's a tiny year volatilely picks up. If you get any kind of rally in things like Bitcoin, you're supposed to sell, certainly in the other hundreds of the unlimited supply,

it's just a complete bare market getting started. That's why I'm really feeling sorry sometimes for people keep trying to pick out bottoms. The trade's over. How do you keep going to get it started? In precious metals, the trade is over too. Because like I point is, here's the thing that matters. We had a number come out on Friday on unemployment in the U.S.

Completely doesn't matter. On a scale 1 to 10 in any relative positive, I see worthy value at risk model, the next thing that 10 on the 1 scale, 10 scale for all assets is the next 10% moving to 5%. If it's down percent, Bitcoin's going down 20 or 30% or micro strategy is dropping 40%. Same with copper. If S&T 500 is up 10%, maybe 20%. Bitcoin will stop going down. You see what's changed now? This is the world we're in. By the way,

it's only August 10th. Now, if we get through November, and I'm still wrong on this, well, and so far I've been right. This has been the mantra. Then I start worrying. But my point is this trade is just starting to kick in. But here's the problem. Bitcoin has been in a bare market and crypto has been in a vicious bare market for 10 months now. And the stock market's been in a very positive bull market. And you keep talking about correlations. And ignoring the elephant in the room, 10 months of a bear market. And by the way, the cryptic, your quote, unlimited supply of competitors, I mean, I think at this point, pretty much other than Tom Lee every once in a while and a few of the Ethereum diehards talk about Ethereum as a competitor

to Bitcoin for money, although their investment thesis is not the same as Bitcoin. I, the amount of times, other than maybe the Casp of people, every once in a while, every once in a while, the XRP army, although you don't really hear it very much. I mean, those, that competition thread feels dead to me. It feels like, and that there is a, that there are two separate assets, you know, you know, like gold is not a competitor to the S&P 500, but GLD is a stock and the S&P 500 are stocks and I guess they compete for people's money. I don't see it as any different, but you can't ignore 10 months of a bear market that where if you look at crypto, it's down 70, 80% on average, give or take. I mean, I don't know, you tell me, Scott, X Bitcoin crypto, X stablecoins, what's it down? More beyond the top 10. Right.

So, I mean, it's down, it's been a vicious bear market. And we're at, you know, we've gotten to what is looks like a bottoming process from a bare market, which isn't crazy because even in time space, that's about how long. long these things tend to last. So every time you say it's just getting started, it's not true. We've had 10 months for that leading indicator to be useful for the stock market. And the only way I do love, first of all, I want to lose every single debate with you, Dave, let markets decide. Well, by the way, me too. And I've had to say you're right three times earlier. I want to lose this bait. The fact is, as I pointed out, is the crypto market has

completely failed the test of 2006. The test is, S&B 500 dropping 10% staying down a while, then maybe we can see some divergent strength and people like McLaugh and I was most of the past. And you can, it's just the key thing is I have to stick with the mantra that's been working. Now you stop using some of your other mantras because they were completely, the prices justifying this. And I remember hearing this from a federal, a gentleman who worked for one of the department agencies at the U.S. and put in all this data and crude oil and energy. And he said, sometimes we go to price to help us just.

justify our analysis. Price is justifying my case that this pace is in the process of looking for a low price cure and there's still an unlimited supply of these things. Of course, I'm a commodity guy. They should continue lower. We need to flush them out. Now, also we're learning is the correlations are all going up in an up market in the S&P 500. That's the problem. This is my job is look forward to the next big trade. Now, you can all focus on other stuff about unlimited printing all that stuff we've had. This is the next big trade kicking in. It's like I point out right now. that NASDAQ kind of kick down versus SMB firing. All this stuff that led the way up is leading down.

I just look at at least for until November, there's some good opportunities kicking in. And obviously it's a bit low to be shorting Bitcoin now. But I think in any rally is a responsive or rational hedge leverage money in the planet looking to sell this market, partly because they ignore the mantra anymore that has failed. It's over. The trade is over. Yeah, I feel like the biggest problem with. people who trade is that you often anchor to the most recent event.

And then as a result, you kind of project forward on that and extrapolating never does, like it never does well. Um, you kind of need to take the situation for what it is. And don't be wrong. Like Scott knows this. Like, I'm not always a permable. Like I don't always come out and going like Bitcoin forever. Like I've come out many times and been like, nope, this is just a bad like environment.

You shouldn't be trading it. Like so no when I say that like I, when I think that. that like actually we're kind of forming our bottom. We have formed the bottom here. It's very much like kind of like what Dave is saying. Like I feel like we've kind of gone through this period already of like just really just like negative sentiment towards crypto towards Bitcoin. I feel like what you said, Mike actually isn't wrong. Like, oh man, it's too expensive to try to short here.

But it's still going to happen. Like, well, you kind of said it. Like if it's too expensive to short here, who's going to want to do it? Like when it's at 80 or 100, it's a super easy call. Then you'd be like, oh, man, like I could, you know, it's not going anywhere. I don't love the fundamental thesis or I don't love this or that. And it's cheap. So let's, let's kind of put in for short.

At these levels, when time you're getting into like the 50, 60 kind of mark, already, it's getting really really tough for people to kind of do it. Either it's going to stay flat, i.e. neutral, or it can kind of stage a comeback if liquidity starts flowing into this market again. And granted, we've been in a. period where, like, people already used up a lot of, like, they are tax return money from April and other things. But, like, there's other boxes of liquidity to come in. There could be fundamental thesees. There could be, like, clarity acts kind of coming in, although, you know, we can debate

whether that's, that's true. I'm still kind of skeptical on that. But, like, those are things that I think can still motivate people to kind of get back into these markets. And then, like, we'll recover from the periods that we've just seen. I want to, yeah, I want to point something out really quickly, Mike, that just sort of, you kind of joked, you know, who would short it. It's expensive to short and maybe it's not the right market. Well, we have interesting data here. Hedge funds on CME flip net long Bitcoin futures is very rare. The basis trade keeps them structurally short.

That's why this chart's been read for years. You can't carry trade into a net long. I mean, you take a look at how red this chart is and the few times when it's green, the market tends to go up. And right now it is once again green. So listen, I'm not saying hedge fund positioning is an indication that price is necessarily going to go up. but they're almost always net short, especially as it's been going down with the carry trade. So they're not shorting, actually.

Well, you wait for, but shorting is much different than going getting long in a bull market, and you just get out and you just forget about it. It's best not to look at it. Obviously, shorting can be much more complicated. The key point I like to make is look at your value at risk model. Next 10% rallying S3 500, next 10% drop. If you expect cryptos to go up and a 10% drop in Nsmi 500, I say, good look. Everybody's just waiting for that, just waiting for it to happen. You're seeing it in the

NASDAQ already rolling over versus S&P 500. To me, this is one of those things. It's just a consolidating bare market. And like I can point out, to stay at this level that we pointed out, what, six months ago was a good support with the S&P 500 rallying another 14% means you are completely a sock puppet to the stock market. It has to go up. But the whole thing about speculating and trading in crypto is done. It's over. We just haven't hit maximum paying yet. By maximum pain is we have to take Doge and Sibuino, get those down to zero, maybe get Bitcoin back to its kind of formation foundation around 10,000. And then we got a place to get long again. It's just the way it usually works in markets.

The key theme, though, is we are so elevated in the stock market. It's the only place. And again, it's August. Like I said, some of our traders' minds, I can't trade anymore. I just look, and there's some great opportunities coming up here. Like earlier in the year, obviously, it seems like Bitcoin and gold and silver got too expensive. But that's where I'm narrowing down. copper. The number one I've been wrong on this year. Copper has increased about 10% for that

key level I mentioned around $6. But SB 500 has dropped another to 15%. For versus beta, it's still underperforming. Hedge funds are way long and it's highly core to the stock market. So I look at the next potential trade is a drop in copper. And by the way, if copper drops, it means everything goes down. If it keeps going up, there's no, you don't get any big, no risk for reward. Even you do it structure and option position, you might get one to one. I'm talking about options positions where you can get five to one payouts. Yeah, I don't know. I'm curious.

How do you explain, you know, it's like SpaceX. SpaceX is an interesting one because, you know, it did break IPO price. I was right about that. It didn't go down nearly as much as we thought. What I was right was that the day before the big unlock was the bottom and it's since rallied 30 plus percent since then. And now we're back to IPO price or damn close to it. you know, this is this is one of those things that's giving you, this is the pulse of where

flows are in the market right now. And you're right, markets could roll over, but what you're seeing rolling over are people split or people are like grasping for narratives. But there's liquidity still flooding into this market because there's liquidity because there's more dollars being created. I mean, to me that's interesting, but I'm curious, you know, what do you make of that? You think it's just that this is just a false dawn like it was in 2000? when markets crashed in March and then rallied all the way back to get back to even in August before the final disaster plunge started that started in August or September of 2000 and continued until after 9-11 in 2001.

Is that how you're looking at it? Because, I mean, I guess you could look at it that way. I'm curious. You're talking about crypto market, about Bitcoin. No. Look, Bitcoin's been in a bare market for 10 months. The stock market has been in a bull market for that 10 months. period. And a large feature of that stock market bull run has been AI stocks and the big gohuna was

SpaceX. And so SpaceX had this, this big IPO, a pump to over 200, a crash down to under 100, and is now back to the IPO price. And I'm curious what you make of all that, because that, I mean, that is a massive move in a asset that is, is very large. So I like to refer to some people help make a lot of money in the past, not make money, but it has some great costs. First was Michael Saylor got me really bullish when Bitcoin. It was around $10,000 and got me really bearish when it got above $100,000. And then Jim Chanos last year, he really helped me beat on micro strategy. When he pointed out this now strategy, how silly it was.

I kept beating on that too. It's part of it embolding my bearishness in Bitcoin. And he's just pointed out the IPO surge you've seen in the U.S. People with like Korean firms coming to list in IPOs. It's a classic case of supply finding the meeting demand. Now, where it's going to end? I don't know. How it ends.

At some point, it will. And that's why I think, okay, next few months, that's the next big trade that could be normal. Say, stocks do normal continue up and end up the year 20%. What is it, the fourth or fifth year in a row? That'd be obviously historic. But if they drop just 10% or so, it's the start of a trade of a lifetime. That's why I look at it. Just give me a few months, see how we get through it.

Right now, it's the whole hum period. But things leading indicators are quite significant. The best leading indicator so far has been Bitcoin. And now we also look like NASDAQ for SSMP. that's breaking down. So I just look, and as we speak right now, everything's having a little bit of pressure, cryptos and,

and precious metals, most and only gold, as the bond yield ticks up again. To me, that's an endgame. They got to do something about that bond yield because it can take down everything. That's obviously my bias is I came from trading that

in that bond pit in Chicago in the 80s. I mean, everything. I think everyone agrees with that. Mike, once again, just as an extra, I don't maybe not data point, but narrative to the crypto,

and a million competitors. They're all good. Like the thing is like I you know like these things can float as zombies indefinitely when there's nobody left to sell even if they have market cap. And I think that that's what's happened with 99% of the ones that you're sort of allowing to compare it to. And I will just say that there has been a meaningful and definitive shift into utility and value. And there are select coins in the crypto market that have performed exceptionally well for good reason. and that is something that's very different than in the past. And I think most of the people who are holding the trash assets that you're referring to have either gone away forever or have rotated into things with a bit more utility or narrative.

So I just think that maybe the signal you're looking for for them to die is, you know, is kind of like Theon Greyjoy and Game of Thrones, you know, what is that made. Let me clarify. Let me clarify, Scott, let me clarify, they have not seen the test. This is happening with the S&P 500 at record highs. The beta, the most significant measure of incremental real-time wealth in his country is the stock market. At $82 trillion, what's the most significant measure of liabilities on the planet date points all the time? You can see it in that clock.

It's $40 trillion, the U.S. public debt. Stock market cap to that public debt is the highest on a year-end basis since 2000. So that's pretty significant. The bottom line is what you're seeing is this stabilization is happening with the stock market, that wealth creation at its highest level versus GDP in almost 100 years. That's my point is, okay, that's okay. They'll stabilize at these low levels as long as that major bait is going up. The problem is when things stick lower, things collapse.

And I fully expect things like Dogecoin and Shebelina to go down to zero. Because if there's money to be made within any, so we're in a market that's massively inflating stairs. I'm arguing that they can't. I mean, there's still money. They still, it's when you have. nothing left. It's just, okay, but there still have some money in there. I just look at, I mean, we've watched XRP for a while. A good lesson for me was XRP. I had one of my son's eldest

friends who was 32 or so point out he had a significant portion of his wealth in XRP. Now, this was trading 2.5. I pointed out of all the risks to that. Now it's one. These people have still have some wealth in this place. And I think they're going to learn, okay, well, a little bit's better than nothing. Get out. Yeah, I just think we haven't had a reason to hit those stops yet. I also think XRP for whatever it's worth is different than a random meme coin. I don't disagree. My point is there's an unlimited supply of Bitcoins, Ethereum's XRPs. There's not, but the key theme, and remember, in the cryptocurrencies, the number one bullish thing is the proliferation, the flippinging of tether of everything.

I fully expect that continue because that's the alternative. You don't need peer to peer cash now when you can use a stable coin, crypto dollars. But you're just treating this with equivalency. there's not an unlimited supply of Bitcoin. There's not an unlimited supply of E. Like if you're talking about all crypto, then yeah, you can kind of spin it up. But I mean, then we're talking about meme coins, talking about other things. You're talking about other sectors.

And I mean, the point we're kind of driving at is that like then we're going to talk about sector by sector, like what is valuable. Is DFI still valuable? Is D-Pin still valuable? We can argue about that. That's fine. But you can't just say like with a, you know, just a blush. Oh, yeah, there's unlimited supplies of these things. And then you can just kind of expand this.

I mean, we've kind of already gone through that. Here's where the rubber meets the road. Mike thinks because we have an IPO market that companies, we have an enormous number of companies in the United States, enormous, 20, 30, 40 million. I don't know what the number is right now, but there's lots of companies. But we have very few publicly listed assets,

and even privately trading assets or a microscopic percentage. Why? Because to actually get investors for, those 20 million some odd companies that are in the United States requires enormous legal fees. Grant Cardone came on spaces and talked about north of $20 million to IPO. And so it's very expensive. Crypto, you can go on pump.fond, or you could go on Robin Hood, New Thing, or wherever, and you can launch a coin for nothing.

And so, yeah, you can create, the difference is in crypto, it costs almost nothing to create something that people could invest in, whereas in stocks, it costs millions. of dollars to do that. So does that mean that crypto is less valuable because you can get more investors? That logic is unbelievably tortured. Yet that's the core of what you're saying, Mike. The core thing, however, is you can't compare Joe's Bar and Grill to Nvidia or Microsoft or Apple, right? Just like you can't compare, you know, Popcat or screw it, you know, to, you know, smoking chicken fish to Bitcoin. I'm sorry. Those comparisons are more or less exactly the same. And so it's tiresome to hear that. But one thing that is true is because

there's no cost in listing and there's no cost in maintaining, we still have FTX token, literally still has a market cap of $70 million and it's clearly worthless. $70 million is a lot of frigging money for it would place it in the top in the top 10,000, actually probably in the top 5,000 of all equities in the United States, which is insane if you think about it. And so you're right, but those are the economic reasons behind. The main people in persons being unbelievably tortured are persons who still believe that an asset class with an unlimited supply or unchecked can keep going up after it went up. That's the lessons you learn in training, come money.

Stuff doesn't stay up. There's just a world, though, where tokens being launched on pup.comun have anything to do with Bitcoin in 2026. I don't disagree. The point is they're still compared to, that's why I started enjoying using that analogy last year, comparing cryptos to a flock of pigeons and precious metals to a bunch of dubs. There's only four of them. And they've peaked. So let's just go over to the macro here. I'm not just, I'm just focused on a non-income producing assets. These ones, basically most of them, almost all of them, except the Cryptidars track nothing. And they're facing the highest competition from bond yields in 25 years.

My good luck. Okay. So let's go back. And every rally, they're going to go lower. So dollars, like there's this argument, and it's actually one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard, coming from the BIP 110 failed people saying, oh, Bitcoin is dead because we're now in Fiat world, because Big Bitcoin is one. And they talk about, well, you're going to use stable coins. Look, let's be really clear. The dollar is the reserve currency of the world. And stable coins are a method for that to expand into the agentic digital economy.

That is true. That has nothing to do with how people look at value. of said dollar as you print more and more and more of them. Those are two separate things. They just are. So yes, there will be more dollars in issuance in stable coins because it makes sense for that to be the case. But that is completely orthogonal to how one values pretty much any other asset,

particularly Bitcoin or gold, et cetera. I hate when people conflate these things because it doesn't make any sense to do so. You know, it's like gold has lost 97% of its purchasing power since we created the Federal Reserve. That's just a fact. Okay? That doesn't mean that gold is instilled the world's reserve currency.

The fact that it's lost 97% of its purchasing power. The fact that the house I'm sitting in is worth, you know, what, 3x, what I paid for it over a 20-year period when we've printed almost that many dollars. I mean, actually more. You know, housing as a whole has actually gone up less than the money supply has gone up in the last, you know, since 2000. So, you know, whatever.

But all of these things, people can, inflate them. And that's my problem. A lot of what you say is absolutely right. Certainly when you start talking about commodities, which is very elastic, very elastic to price, you're going to get a different reaction than in commodities that are non-elastic to price, Bitcoin being non-elastic. And it's elastic to the extent of people who own it, but not new supply. And so when supply is elastic different things happen. And you have to treat those things differently. It doesn't mean they're not that you can't have bear markets in both, because of course you can. And we have. We've had a 10-month bare market so far in Bitcoin and a far worse bear market in other major large-cap cryptos.

And frankly, an almost catastrophic post.com bubble bear market in the flotsam and jetsail of the crypto market. It looks a lot like what the dot-com bubble looked like. you know, two years in. It really does, you know, outside. I mean, I can tell you I have a lot of dust in my portfolio of things that were worth thousands that are now worth tens. You know, I never really had huge amounts in any of these things. But yeah, I jokingly refer to smoking chicken fish as one of them. But that's not the only one. There are a lot of these meme coins, a lot of these things that had lots of value that have dropped 99% just like the dot com ones. And the only differences, the big difference is in the dot-com bubble, it costs money to keep a company afloat.

And so they go to zero. In crypto, they become zombies. Yeah, exactly. That's the difference. Sorry. No, I will concede the point that in crypto, supply is programmatic, right? You will cap it at a certain amount of supply. And from that perspective, I think from the outset or from the outside, rather, people can day, well, isn't this just arbitrary, except that it's not.

Isn't it? Like, if today, like someone said, you know, or raising the cap of Bitcoin to like 50 million Bitcoin and anyone can this way, like more people can actually buy it, like, then it would like absolutely drop zero because then you broke the contract. Like the contract was that like it was never going to go above like, like, you know, 21 million Bitcoin. And like, as a result, like, no one can, like, this is, I mean, this is the issue, I think, like, when it comes down to, like, like, crypto. Like, a lot of people who kind of just look at the stuff and observe this stuff are saying, like, no, but like, it can make as much of your meme coin as you want.

Except, like, once you go out and, like, once that token is launched and it's out in the ether, like, if you change any of those details, the buyers actually have it. And also the people who actually mine this stuff, like, and the entire supply chain is contingent upon following that contract that's been set out. Like, I think that you can argue all day whether like, well, that is that actually like the case? Will people actually do that? Is human behavior attuned to those kinds of things? And that's a different kind of conversation than the one we're having. But to kind of just argue, oh, no, but like there's an unlimited supply of these things. Like, that's the incorrect premise on which crypto is built.

So I would disagree with that part, Mike. But prices agree with me and they disagree with you. But it's not zero. Like, nothing wrong. We're going there. If you change the supply and you say, like, you can alter it in a very, very, like, willy-nilly kind of way, like, it should not be at 65. I think Mike's just pointing out that you can just make a new one.

But, yeah. My point is I love to appreciate, I love losing arguments on this show. Let price decide. So Bitcoin, I've got the top. 21 million things, all of us, a decade ago, those of us who made money on it were bullish and everything. But then you realize, okay, there's Bitcoin gold and Bitcoin cash and Bitcoin Sotochi's vision and light coin and all these other ones. Sorry, but it's in a bare market. It's going to continue. My bias, it should drop another 90%.

Dave, final thought there. We got, it's 10. You know, there's a limit to arguing. I mean, you know, Bitcoin has, Bitcoin dominance continues to rise against most of the crypto market for a reason, but they're very different. There's a different use case. Bitcoin still trades like an option, and its target, the target for Bitcoin, the first target, not the necessarily end target, is the monetary value of gold, which I estimate it between, you know, somewhere around 80% of gold's market cap. That's pure monetary value. And as it eats into that, there's an enormous positive asymmetric bet. That is why, is why, why ETFs are doing what they're doing while it's in the,

while the bare market is still in place and we're still, and it's just ending. It is why we have seen a rotation and we've seen whales starting to rebuy. It's why we're seeing no retail whatsoever, but sailor can get away for selling. That is very different. Now, when you talk about the rest of crypto, and I will continue to say this,

I've been saying this for two years now, real value and real economics are not going to be, not going to happen in the crypto sphere until they, there's token economics that are clear to investors that make sense that can justify valuations. Full stop. And, you know, we've seen all sorts of crap here. And it's unfortunate that we didn't talk about the coal card hack, but I will say this about that, because it is important.

That is the UIUX for Bitcoin self-custody sucks balls, has sucked balls, and will continue to suck balls until people figure out a way to make it simple for people to hold it and have a fiduciary trusted custodian that could work with them on a multi-sig setup so that they can handle both succession, you know, estate planning, et cetera, as well as lack of vulnerability to wrench attacks because nobody holds all their cash themselves. They went to banks for a reason because banks gave them insured deposits. The same thing is true with Bitcoin. That doesn't change Bitcoin's value proposition.

It doesn't change the fact that you can take delivery of your Bitcoin and use it for large purchases or pledge it as collateral, et cetera. It doesn't change any of that. It is extremely unfortunate and it feels more and more from what I'm seeing like it might even have been an inside job because there's all sorts. I mean, you talk about a cold vulnerability for it. It's five years old. There's a lot that we're going to uncover a lot here.

We'll see if anything gets spent. This may have been, if it was a job by someone who shorted Bitcoin, then it's going to be delightful to watch their faces get ripped off. when it rallies in their face. But the truth is that I dare the person who stole it to try to spend it because the entire world is watching those wallets. They're not getting away with it. And that in and of itself is extremely important for Bitcoin's future.

The fact that a wallet that was used by Maxis that, you know, in a targeted way, you know, cause people that tried to do the right thing, lose their money, it's tragic. It really is tragic. There's no other word for it. I know of people who lost money that I feel really bad for because they got they got screwed. And this happened. I mean, I felt more or less the same with you and Voyager.

So different, right? You know, it's like, it's like shit happens. And it's unfortunate. We all diversify. I've been asked many times, why do I not self-custom, you know, I have some. I have multiple wallets, but most of my wealth is not a self-cutta. For exactly these reasons. And it's the same thing.

But it is, you have to look at what's going. on. The bigger picture is we have deficits as far as the eye can see. We have when, when Mike talks about historic S&P, well, yeah, relative to market cap, true, but we've basically pumped earnings to the point where it's not, the multiples aren't, aren't even that high, which is crazy if you think about it. But there's all sorts of reasons behind it. I mean, I'll tease it. I'm writing an article now. You want to know what it's called, Scott? It's called socialists are like flat earthers. because the truth is you do research into it and there are more than 2 million people

in the United States who actually believe the earth is flat. Just remember that. And so you look at it. It is. Prove it. Well, you just remind me of a great mantra I learned working in the pits

and a lot of my clients were Japanese and that is he who pick bottom get smelly finger. True. Catching falling knives is never pretty. It's hard. No better way to no better way to sadly have to wrap the show, but it is

10.04. To the double Dave. Dave used to be Dave, that's two D's, whatever on X. Now we have two Dave's. Double daves and something like that. For

joining great show guys. I love the spirited debate that never ends. And as Mike said, Price is going to prove us right or wrong with time. So for a while here, it's been proving him right. Whether you guys like it or whether we like it or not. So Mike, we'll see If those goes to zero, I'll buy you a lot of stakes because zero is a really tough number to get, too.

All right. That's all we got. I'll see you later. Bye. Today's video is sponsored by Securitize. You've heard the word tokenization putting assets like funds, bonds, treasuries, and stocks on chain. Securitize is the regulated infrastructure, the biggest names in finance build on. They're the tokenization partner for Black Rock's on-chain Treasury Fund Biddle.

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