The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Just Got Something It Didn’t Need Congress For | Dennis Porter

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Bitcoin is back near $85K after another rejection at $87K, while stocks continue trading near record highs. We also cover the SEC approving 3x leveraged Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs, the CFTC opening a path for leveraged retail crypto trading, OKX launching a stablecoin app offering up to 10% yield, and Treasury dropping its proposed rules targeting crypto mixers and self-hosted wallets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Bitcoin and the crypto industry just got something. it did not need Congress for. Actually got quite a few things over the past few days that it did not need Congress for, including some potential rulemaking from the CFTC that we've been waiting for. I know your favorite topic is politics. And I know when you'd want to talk about politics, you want to hear from Dennis Porter.

So we brought him on alongside Tillman and Andrew today. Let's go. Good morning, everybody. And welcome to the show. going to go bring on the guests straight away. Dennis Tillman, Andrew, good morning, gentlemen. How are you? What's up? Very well. I had to tell Dennis before the show that I, now my new habit is apologizing to our fourth Tuesday guest before the show starts. Good. Yeah. They should be forewarned every Tuesday.

Absolutely every Tuesday they should be forewarned of the chaos that they're walking into. Yeah, I made the mistake or maybe not mistake of going to the, the raised Yankees game last night. And man, am I tired? But it's always fun to see the Yankees suck. I like that. I'm a Dodger fan, but I, you know, Tampa Bay, but I just, I don't like the Yankees.

And, I mean, my wife is a huge Yankee fan, so, you know, good time. Okay, let's talk about why the Clarity Act failed. I'm just kidding. Dennis, actually, as much as a joke, like, you probably were closer to that process than anyone. seen you taking strays left and right on X as is tradition. And, you know, I share a lot of the same opinions that have been catching strays. But just the very broad strokes before we dive

into what the government is actually doing now that we don't have clarity and it's very clear that we won't have clarity. Just the quick TLDR in your mind on why that didn't happen because you were kind of in the halls when it was being discussed. Yeah, yeah, and glad to be on with the crew today. First time with the crew. Excited to see how this goes. Always been a big fan of Scott for a long time. So happy to be here. So for me, I mean, you brought it up, you know, catching strays. I was probably one of the first or at least the loudest voice to say that I believe that Trump played a major role in the defeat of clarity purely because of the, you know, many different projects that he launched and a money that he made in the space. Roughly $1.4 billion was made by Trump during his second term, which is more than a publicly traded company. in the entire space, including Coinbase. Now, that's not the only reason it failed. Of course, there's a lot of little bits and pieces that went into it, but I was very excited in the waning hours

of the passage of the bill or potential passage of the bill for the motion to proceed. We saw some great changes coming that I knew needed to happen. One of the first things I did when I came to Washington is I tried to figure out where can I go be the most helpful. And very quickly, as of being here for almost a year now, quickly discovered that Democrats needed a lot of help. So I started spending a lot of time with Democrats

trying to figure out, okay, what can we do here? What needs to change in order for this bill to get across the finish line? There were some things around defy. There were some things around the banking side of things, stable coins, and also the ethics provisions. And I saw some great progress happening, but I also knew that the ethics provisions were not going to be enough with the bill that they released like shortly before they tried to take that vote on the motion to proceed. But there was a last minute negotiation in the halls of Congress back in the Senate, in a little cloak room, they were trying to decide, okay, what can we get done here? Republicans and Democrats came together.

Republicans were telling Democrats, you're going to get what you want. There were negotiations were going well. And then all of a sudden, at the very last second, once everything had come together, Republican staff came in the room, broke up the meeting, said negotiations are over, and we're not going to be moving forward with these negotiations. So that is ultimately partly why Democrats ended up voting against the motion to proceed because they were told they were going to get their part of the deal. they didn't get their part of the deal and of course we all saw what happened next uh yes ethics and politics

marriage made in heaven uh i've seen it a hundred times ethics and politics yeah uh i said a year before clarity was dead that it was dead um for all the reasons that you just described because again ethics and politics uh are not fast friends um and it's the reason why nearly nothing gets passed in Washington, D.C. and why regulatory bodies have so much power. The CFTC and the SECC are going to set the rules over the next six to 12 months. Those rule will probably remain the letter, quote, unquote, of the law for a good, you know, four to eight years until for some reason there's impetus to get back to this particular issue at the congressional level, maybe. But, but, But regulatory bodies for the past 15 to 20 years have been where the power is stationed in politics.

Because politicians more than half the time are campaigning for their next stay in D.C. anyways. And whether or not we like it, that's just the reality. So whatever the CFTC and SEC has come out with and will come out with around crypto, finance, and the like, is going to live for a while. And it's a good thing because we've got some real friends in those spaces. And I'd be interested to hear what Dennis has been able to kick up in conversations with people in and around the CFTC and SEC, because that's probably time well spent. Can I just give the quick, you know, because that maybe we give the update, obviously.

So the SEC had very quickly came out with Reg Crypto, which was ahead of clarity, and then right after clarity was rejected, came out with the innovation exemption. Yesterday, actually, to my knowledge, OKX and ICE, which is, you know, obviously behind New York Stock Exchange, announced a 50-50 partnership to launch really the first exchange of tokenized stocks that's innovation exemption compliant, assuming there is an innovation exemption. So that's moving forward on one side. Then we have SEC approved a 3X fix for Bitcoin and Ether traders who miss the wild swings,

just a little, you know, a little hit, a little shot in the arm there. for anybody who needs leverage, but the SEC obviously moving forward with approving products. And then the CFDC here, that the whole thing is in the way. CFTC proposes new federal framework for leverage, retail, crypto trading. So we knew right after clarity that the CFDC had kicked some language up to the White House, and now we're starting to see that they're looking for a regulatory regime that will make, you know, leverage trading and derivatives, et cetera, specific to crypto or compliant. So to your point, moving forward very quickly here without clarity, in a close clarity world.

Well, I've said this kind of since the beginning, and Bitcoin taught me this. It's like, Bitcoin doesn't care. And this technology doesn't care about regulations. It's the cat's out of the bag. The world's going to use it. It's going to change global finance forever. It's that disruptive. It's something that you can't turn away from once you start to deploy it.

and innovate around it. And there's so much innovation and building going on right now. And there's so much money being put into the rails and into the expansion of markets. If you look at like the debt-based economy that we participate in, we have to either print a tremendous amount of money or inject liquidity in other ways into the markets. And tokenizing everything is a hell of a way to provide liquidity to the markets. It opens up lending against all tokenized assets. It opens up the borders in terms of investing across borders freely in whatever you want. It opens up all of the vaults that Bitwise are doing that you're able to combine real-world yield-based assets with tokenized assets to get this new type of mutual fund slash ETF.

So I think there's this evolution. that if you've seen it, you know how disruptive it is. I mean, Larry Fink is a perfect example of this. He saw it and he never turned back. He full-fledged, committed himself, head over feet, and he dove into the deep end. And he did it because the adoption rate and the demand will never stop being there. Once you have used the technology, you go,

why haven't we been doing this for a long time? we can send information very quickly in email. We can call, we can text. Information flows very freely across the globe. Money does not. And this does that. And that's going to free up capital in ways that I don't think we can even measure right now. And that's the objective.

We have to reduce our debt burden by inflating our currency and printing more money and re-capitalizing our market. with new debt mechanisms and new ways for new participants to come online, new users. This is a huge change in who gets to participate. And one of the things that was interesting that I caught along the headlines was there reevaluating the rules around accredited investors. That's, again, to this nature of like, we need more people in the game in order to make the economics work over the next decade in terms of a debt, from the debt perspective.

Well, I want to go back to Andrew's question to Dennis, but I also want to comment on the fact that Kim Kramer is once again yelling directly in the ear. I'm listening. We're listening. Matt Kramer just switched off, but I mean, he was like this far from you. We hear, we hear for you. That's what we hear. We hear it.

There is. Tell me what you got. Listen, it just tells me that you weren't listening to a word I said. I should have put that off about two minutes earlier. And in my mind that Jim Kramer was saying it into Andrew's ear. In my brain point, Dennis, go ahead. Well, I couldn't agree more that I, with Andrew, when it comes to the rulemaking, it's likely that those rules will stand for some time, although they'll probably face a number of different lawsuits. And the other big thing here that often goes missed is that because we don't have a federal framework that's going to be in statute that will also have preemption rules around states.

You're going to have other states. We already have three already, California, New York, and Louisiana that have their own framework. But you're probably going to have more states attempt to create their own frameworks because there isn't one at the federal level. maybe because they also disagree with the sort of characterization of the approach that the CFTC is taking. But it's probably very likely that those rules persist for two years at bare minimum. I mean, it would be very unlikely for a new administration to come in on the Democratic side and attempt and make, you know, a clarity, a 3.0 bill, their, you know, major priority, especially with all the rulemaking that's going on at the CFTC and SEC.

More than unlikely what would happen is you'd have some sort of like major catastrophe. event that would kick off a new type of approach to to market structure. And then I love it was love to what Tillman was saying. You know, Bitcoin doesn't care. You know, at the end of the day, the reason why I was I was drawn to Bitcoin is because it was a money that no one could control. But that was great because it was also it also meant that it was a money that no one could prevent anybody from having access to people all over the world. It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, where you're born. You can access Bitcoin and you can use it to buy, sell, trade, save, which is people don't think about how innovative that is. But

There are literally two billion people on this planet who have access to almost no real significant type of financial tool. We're so blessed to be here in America where we have access to the most cutting edge financial tools that you could possibly imagine. One of them, of course, being Bitcoin. But if you wanted to go buy stocks, if you wanted to go buy bonds, if you wanted to go buy real estate, you could do that along with a number of other financial tools that you could take on. Even just the very idea of basic checking and savings is a very powerful tool here in the United States that we have. that we can depend on our currency. I know we talk a lot of crap about the dollar in the Bitcoin space and that it's going to the tanker.

But a lot of these people that live all over the world, they don't even have access to a currency that doesn't have triple digit inflation. And even if they were to put it in their bank account, it's not entirely certain that the government wouldn't come steal it from them. Oftentimes you'll find people that are saving for a house. They don't save in money. They'll save in the resources. They'll be like saving up in the bricks and then they'll be saving up in the wood because

they can't actually save in their local currency. And that's something that really I think is so important about Bitcoin. And it's going to continue to be that way, regardless of whether or not we have clarity. It is one thing you mentioned that changes to rules associated with leverage trading and Bitcoin. By the way, that goes on in spades in traditional markets like, you know, S&P futures, NASDAF futures, Dow futures. Those can be leveraged 10 to 1. and nobody talks about that because it's been around for a long time. So leveraged, you know, per future type trading associated with Bitcoin or other, you know, cryptocurrencies,

is not some novel thing. It's just catching up to traditional markets. That's really all it is. Even though in our little silo we're like, oh, you know, they're doing leverage trading. That's interesting. Again, it happens a lot in traditional markets and, you know, you take on the risk and you decide what level you want to take on the risk. The 3x, 4x, 10x, whatever it happens to be, you get to make those choices. So in a lot of ways, CFTC and the SEC, to your point, Scott, ICE, which is the parent company in New York Stock Exchange and the parent company of a bunch of exchanges across the globe, you know, playing.

allowing crypto digital assets, whatever you want to call them to catch up to the playing field that is traditional financial markets. So it's a good thing. It's just broadening the amount of pieces, you know, chess pieces on the chess board. And Bitcoin is more and more so a big piece on the chess board and continues to grow. And we talked last week about the, with Yesco with the reality between, you know, Ibit's huge product, but also their options, right? That is something. Change the game. Yeah, continue, continue to grow.

And, you know, Black Rock hasn't stopped talking about it. It really is going to be something a year and a half from now when we've got either very, very close to 24-7 markets. We may be at 24-5 at that point on our way to 24-7. And there have been over the past 50 years moments in markets where there have been, there have been massive shifts, right? You know, before you had stock certificates and then you didn't have stock certificates. And so custodians were, you know, came to be a meaningful thing. Then you had mutual funds, which didn't exist before.

It was just individual stock. Then you had ETS. You had quote unquote digital money before. If you went to Burger King, you had to have to have. hand them actual money. And then you had this plastic thing that you could do something with. And people are like, I don't know if I trust this. So we forget about all that stuff. And we're on the cusp of another big move in financial markets that will spawn things that we haven't really even thought of yet very, very fast. And it's exciting times. And crypto has pushed us in this

direction, right? Well, we've said since the beginning of crypto, this is going to change the world. And every hype cycle has been just that, nothing but hype. There's no true utility behind it. Bitcoin's the only real utility that has firmly found itself. And what is the utility of Bitcoin? It's volatility and depth of liquidity. And that's what Wall Street's using it for. And so moving forward, it's really interesting to see like Quant pumped, I think 6x on some new that they partnered with clearinghouse. This may be, knock on wood, the cycle, where we really find true utility in the space. And people don't measure the coin by what its price X could do, but they start measuring the coin on its total value locked,

on its number of users and the growth rate of those users, the things that really matter. And I think we're there. I think you're going to start seeing that pretty quickly. And I think, you know, polymarket is kind of an example of that. But all of these real world use case type, but gambling obviously came out first in sports betting. And it's dominating. Every exchange has just been running after prediction markets like it's the last thing they have to chase to be profitable. And it should tell us something. Those are highly profitable spaces. And they everything that they can do to keep users on their platform. That's what the game's about. So as we saw like in 2017 where every exchange was fighting for exclusive listings, like, oh, we've got the listing for, you know, X, Y, Z token. And we've got, and you would see like if it got listed on Coinbase, it would just pump to the moon.

I think we're about to see that on the real world asset side of things. I think the new alt coins are going to be. the real world assets that are tokenized. And the alt coins are just going to be the hidden layer that's actually being used in the background, which is like, we've been talking about this moment for a decade. And it's upon us. And I think that's something like somebody told me this a long time ago, and it's true. It's like, you know the technology's important when no one sees it and no one talks about

it anymore, but everyone uses it. And it's being integrated at that level across a lot of different legacy type. institutions and look we deal a lot with the exchanges they're spending a lot of time right now looking at what tokenized assets they're going to put on their exchange what rails and what infrastructure needs to be set up what partnerships need to be set up that is what they're all pursuing right now because i think it's going to be fast and furious look at what happened with robin hood here recently with the whole game stop thing or what was it game stop or was it another one where they tokenized and they got sued by the corporate here

shouldn't write. It was the movie theater, AMC. AMC. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. So, you know, they just decided, hey, we're going to tokenize AMC shares, and we're going to issue them on our platform. And they did. And it was a hit. And AMC said, no, you can't do that. Well, legal precedence is about to be found on these types of subjects. But now in the United States, according to the innovation exemption, but they can do it offshore. But Robin notable now, yeah. I mean, that was at the court, the innovation exemption. I want to pivot slightly since we have Dennis. because this is one of the big stories here today. Crypto's campaign arm Fair Shake sets lists of U.S. House favorites it'll spend on. The Super PACs shared a list of more than 30 incumbent candidates. It's backing with about a million dollars going to three names from each party. So let's talk midterms because it's time.

It's October whether people want to get back into the political conversation or not. And the future of crypto definitely is affected by who's in power and how, they're approaching the industry, right? So, I mean, how are you just even handicapping what's likely to happen and how much the crypto pack is going to influence that? Yeah, I mean, midterms are right upon us. What are we 30 days out? It's looming over our shoulders. Very likely that the Democrats at bare minimum take the House. They have a polling average in the generic ballot of about plus nine. I think it's actually 8.9 right now. That bodes for them roughly hitting around 225 roughly. If they'll have about 225 seats in Congress. I believe it's 218 to to be able to control the House. And then on the Senate

side, there is a lot of optimism growing just with everything going on in the world. A lot of people feel that Trump has not come through on his promises to them when it comes to wars, when it comes to the Epstein files. So there is a lot of frustration with voters, especially with the cost of everything going up, that there is going to be, I think, sort of a referendum on Trump 2.0. A year ago, no one was talking about the Democrats taking the Senate, but now we're starting to to see roughly about a 64% chance to 66% chance on Cal Shee that Democrats end up sweeping. And that's going to be really important for the legislative areas around crypto, around Bitcoin, because if you have Democrats take the House, Maxine Waters is going to be the chair of

financial services. She's not recently been such an ally, although in the past pre-SbF, FTX. She was certainly interested in working with us, but not today. And is SBF, and I'm Maxine Waters. Yeah, that's right. She's 9,000 years old and she's going to head up financial services. Awesome. Just really fantastic. Well, just to make you even more excited, Andrew, if they take the Senate, Elizabeth Warren will then be the chair of the banking committee unless somehow Sherrod Brown is able to convince them that he should get his old position back.

theoretically, he is higher up in the rankings, but because he lost and came back, I've heard both sides. I've heard some people say that he was promised the chair seat in order to run. I've heard from others that Elizabeth Warren has already been promised that she would have it, regardless of whether or not he won if the Senate, if Democrats were to take back the Senate. So going back to your point, though, Andrew, like if if, if like we just end up doing all this CFTC and SEC rulemaking, then it's very unlikely that there's going to be some new package, some new legislative effort that comes through Congress. If Democrats are in the House of the Senate, very, very unlikely that that's a focus. In fact, probably most of the focus will be them just like going after a lot of these people.

That's one of my worries is like, did you do something, did you do some unsavory deals with the Trump administration? You're probably going to get pulled before Congress. Well, again, really the only thing that happened in the first, you know, in these two years where Republicans controlled everything at the federal level was the big, beautiful bill. That's quite literally it. And then a bunch of executive orders, which ultimately got smacked down by, you know, you know, activists. judges that Democrats found somewhere. And so the idea that anything meaningful is going to happen with the House and the Senate being Democrat and the president, you know, being Republican or the House just being Democrat

in the Senate, like nothing, also nothing is going to happen. So again, to the level that politics has meaningful impact in what markets do, you can you can take a long look at, you know, several decades of history and see it doesn't really play that table role at all. It's more theater. It really, really doesn't. It's like being invested, you know? I mean, I'm old enough to remember when Invidia was a $2 trillion company.

Like in the next two weeks, it'll probably get $6 trillion. Like that's what the, you know, kind of what the focus should be. like, you know, the political part of it is theater, and it's worth talking about on, you know, a certain podcast, not this one, even though we're talking about it. But yeah, it's, it's, we'll all be glued to our TVs, you know, a month from now and see what happens. Then two days later, we're, okay, now what? Yeah, I generally agree with that, but I think that, you know, of all industries and all

things, it does matter at least a bit to ours. Listen, like, I don't think it'll happen to Dennis's point, but a clarity act rewritten by Maxine Waters and Elizabeth Warren is not exactly the legislation that we want to see being pushed, A. And all that rulemaking, I would say, Dennis, do you agree that it's more likely that there will be pushed back against it and potential litigation and all of that if we see a blue sweep? So like the rulemaking we're taking for granted in a month could become extremely contentious in another like political, you know, hot. potato. So I think it happens either way. I think you're going to see lawsuits come from the state level, from the state AGs. That was when I had my conversation with Commissioner Selle. That's what his biggest concern was. I asked him, you know, I said, what's the plan? Because this was like about a few days before clarity failed. And I said, you know, clarity ends up failing. What's going to be the plan moving

forward? I mean, I assume you're just going to move forward with rulemaking. Of course, he said yes. And then I said, what's, you know, do you feel that there could be an opportunity for will a future administration, let's assume a Democrat wins the presidency in 2028, do you fear that that presidency would come in and rewrite the rules? And although he acknowledged that that could be a concern, he was more worried about the immediacy of lawsuits coming his way, like, regardless of who wins the election in 2026 or 2028. Yeah. I will say that, like when you talk like talking politics here, here's one of the big stories today. And I'm not saying this is inherently political, but Treasury withdraws crypto mixing rule citing concerns over a chilling effect on.

legitimate activity. So this is not a change in anything moving forward. It's actually dropping a potential rulemaking, which is kind of rhymes with what we're talking about. But this was something that the industry believed could have become wildly problematic. You know, Treasury basically abandoned these proposals. One would have subjected self-hosted wallets and one for crypto privacy tools. So this is mixers, you know, and basically having to KYC or self-custody wallets at very low thresholds. These were two things that were highly problematic, and I have a feeling if we were under a different treasury right now, we wouldn't have seen these withdrawn. Of course, you know,

Roman Storm is still like in jail for as he points out here. But like there are things that actually really do matter that unfortunately are going to be beholden to the policy. Yeah, but politicians really, really, really love boogeymen versus actually making loss. So boogeymen work for Elizabeth Warren to, you know, get on her soapbox and talk about something. And this is terrible and terrible. And it's terrible for your life. And it's awful. Elect me again.

And I promise I'll fix it next time. That is the nature of politics. So even if we get a full sweep of Democrats in the House and the Senate, they're just going to continue to embrace boogeymen. You know, Maxine Waters and Elizabeth Warren are not going to propose new laws associated with crypto for two years. They're going to hang it around. the Republicans neck, like Trump, Trump, Trump, one point four, one point six billion dollars all the way to the next presidential election.

Like that's again how politics works versus actual creating bills that are then passed. Because if you create a bill and then pass it, now that's the thing that's hanging around your neck as opposed to the boogeyman, which you can pivot away from at any point. Yeah, it's very, very easy to win from the sidelines. Of course.

It is. Of course it is. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I definitely agree with Andrew in the sense that, you know, a lot of lawmakers fear actually passing any legislation because oftentimes it comes back to haunt them. But that being said, I do think that we should have, you know, new ethics rules in this country. I know you said that the politics and ethics don't go hand in hand, but we did just help pass the first ban in the entire country from banning a sitting member of the California Assembly, sitting member of the California Senate and also the governor from being able to launch. their own meme coin, pass that in the law in the state of California. So there is certainly lawmakers who care about it. You know, you could have, you could say, well, it's just because of Trump. But, you know, these are sort of, uh, uh, unprecedented amounts of self-enrichment that's going on through the current administration. I don't think anybody can deny that. I don't know a single person who does it, who denies it. Some people will say it's fine that he does it. I personally have had a problem with it since the very beginning. I don't think that we should be doing things like things. I think it muddies the political process, the policy process.

In fact, Chairman Hill was even came out and said so as much Republican chair of financial services has said Trump's sort of crypto dealings are causing him major problems in the policy conversation. It's very difficult to bring both sides together when one side is making all the money and the other side is not. I have friends that tell me well, Democrats who just go out there and make more money with crypto. But I just know a lot of folks on the left. This is a big thing with the left. They really just don't believe in this type of stuff.

I know people will point to Nancy Pelosi, but even Nancy Pelosi now supports the stock trading ban. So I do think we should be doing everything we can to try to improve the ethical Congress. Well, I mean, if Nancy Pelosi believes in the stock trading ban, she should bring the bill to the floor and she should champion passing it. Like, let me know when that happened. It'll be Jeffrey. It'll go into law.

Yeah, right. When she's out. No, I mean, it would be leader, Jeffries. Jeffries is going to be taking over obviously now moving forward. And there is a strong interest in this type of political reform from Democrats. I think a lot of Democrats are very interested in political reform around ethics, but they're also very interested in political reform. around campaign finance, particularly around Citizens United. There's a big, big, growing group of folks on the left and within the Democratic Party

who want to see mass political reform in this country because they don't think we can actually move forward as a country until we fix some of these major underlying problems. Now, if they are actually able to get it done, totally different question, but personally, I would be a big fan of a stock trading ban, lobbying reform, Citizens United reform, and possibly even term. We've been talking about this stuff for 10 years, man. They voted on this stuff a hundred times and they've never voted for it to put it into law. Like just two weeks ago, there was a stock trading ban on the floor.

They didn't vote for it. All the Democrats voted against it. Sure. I mean, there was a poison pill in the bill, right? Because they slipped the same back into it. There's a poison pill in every bill. There's a poison pill in every bill. Again, politics.

Well, especially this goes to the midterms, right? They're like, how can we make each other look bad? There's always an excuse, Dennis. There's always an excuse to not. The timeline of their tenure is the issue. And my granddad used to tell me this is like if there's a problem that exists for a really long time with clear solutions, then someone's making a lot of money on the problem. And that kind of sums up what our politics is. These are problems that we all talk about fixing.

But the real solution is not putting people in office that have such bad character that they look at their position. as a way to exploit any system, whether it be traditional crypto, any. But the issue is really, you know, I think you've said it, Dennis, a second ago, is like campaign finance is where this problem stems from, right? It's like you have to have a billion dollars to be considered, you know, qualified to run the country. Well, who's capable of giving you that billion dollars? that therein lies the seed of the issue and it's that you're not going to get people with high moral character in office at least you're not going to get the majority of people with high

moral character in office until you kind of you know solve the problem of selection versus election in my opinion yeah it's it's an all-bide deal it's it's like you know get money out of politics. I think the Senate guy in Michigan, whatever his name is, I probably can't pronounce it properly. Well, you know, get money out of politics, get money out of politics, get the oligarchs out of politics. And last weekend, he's hanging out with the Soros Foundation in New York City. Like, give me a break. Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist. Look at what's happened to college football. It's now made it to Congress. Why? Well, because we let money get into an arena that we all agreed it shouldn't be in.

And I think we all can agree that money shouldn't drive political decisions. The will of the people should. The real purity here is, you know, Scott Melker's deal with LaCroix. That's where we know the real purity line is.

You see what I mean, right? I'm only being a person for an average beverage and I'm very proud of it. I mean, that's a long-running joke, Dennis. You had to be here a bunch. What flavor is it that you go with

over there, Scott? Are you a peach guy? Poplmertz? I think that one's called Windex glass cleaner. That was Lemoncello. It's pled. It's pledged. Pamplemert is a grapefruit in France. You might not know that

Andrew because you're uncultured. No, I'm not at all. No. I don't know anything about I like the potpourri-flavored one. That's my favorite. It tastes like incense. It tastes like incense, exactly. Natural flavors.

Dennis, let me ask you this. I'm sure you're very heavily focused on midterms, but we have this sentiment, I think, that Bitcoin's pretty much safe at this point, right? So clarity was not in most of our estimation, really about Bitcoin. We've all made the point that Bitcoin will be fine regardless. But Satoshi Action Fund, you know,

what are you guys now focused on specifically with regard to what you would like to see next from our government as far as this industry? So yeah, our strategy twofold is one, getting ready for the states. We're going to be working on a lot of Bitcoin rights legislation. We've already passed a number of those bills at the state level. Our Bitcoin rights legislation already protects roughly 20 million Americans in their right to be able to self-custody, run a node, buy sell trade. We want to be able to expand that into more states. So we'll be working on that type of legislation. We have a couple of other priorities to the states as well. In fact, we are looking

at a real world asset policy, which TBD of whether we roll that out. So that was interesting that we talked about that earlier in the conversation. And then the second part is, of course, continuing to spend time with the party that is likely to be taking over the House and possibly even the Senate, helping to educate them, helping them understand the technology better and getting them prepared to be able to govern because in a very short period of time, they'll be the ones with the gavels. And we want to make sure these things are going the right direction. And big part of that is just relationships. And I just think there's not enough people that have great relationships with Democrats that truly understand the technology. I'm not saying

they don't exist, but they predominantly exist within the Republican Party. You know, one of the big things that really happened, in my opinion, is that the libertarians found Bitcoin first. Libertarians tend to be on the right in this country, although they have at times been on the left. There are some left libertarians that exist. In fact, a lot of them were on the origins of Bitcoin, but the libertarians picked up the Bitcoin project and a lot of libertarians are close to Republicans and have great relationships with them. And that's how I believe that there was a lot of significant movement with Republicans in a short period of time, that that just doesn't really happen with Democrats. And it's in my opinion,

I argue is one of the major reasons why we don't see a lot of folks on the Democratic Party who truly understand the technology, even to the point where sometimes I'll tell them the basics of like, hey, XYZ, this is how it works. And they're like, I've never heard that before. Like, no one's ever, no one has, like literally no one has ever told me that. Like they don't know, they don't, they don't, they don't know what a stable coin is or how it works. They've heard of Bitcoin, but they don't know how it works. And so that's a major problem. And we need to, you know, sort of fill that gap. And that's where we're going to be spending a good portion of our time. And it doesn't involve just working with lawmakers.

It also involves working with the party as well. Dennis, I've got a question for you. I'm not politically minded. I don't know very much about politics. And one of the things, though, we've had Caitlin Long on the show several times. And she's been working on digital dollars, right? Not a CBDC, but the bank's ability to digitize, you know, cashier's checks, essentially, bank to bank transfers.

And she's actually done it. And I know she's patented and, you know, done a fantastic job kind of fighting the headwaters, if you will, and swimming upstream on that front. You know, when she told us about that project, I kind of had this aha moment that changed the way I looked at stable coins, kind of forever. It's like if we were going to rally behind crypto in its purest form for the people,

I think it would be a digital dollar integrated into our banking system versus, you know, the ability to launch anyone to launch a stable coin, for example. And one of the things that I saw is maybe a potential silver lining in the Clarity Act failing was that this would gain some momentum and some exposure. Because, you know, I don't think it takes a genius to think about if America implemented a digital dollar system. what kind of you know what kind of delta we would create in the world of banking and how attractive we would become for deposits and commerce

and all sorts of other things where are you on that? What do you think from a political perspective? Because to me it's always about like how do you get both sides to agree on something? Well, we can all agree we need a strong dollar and we all can agree that the banking system's archaic. So why wouldn't we start with the technology being applied

at the banking level? We, I totally agree with you. In fact, I think that stable coins or some type of digital dollar is quite a compelling argument for both sides. You know, when you can start off the conversation with there is no volatility, that usually tends to go pretty well with most lawmakers. As was mentioned in the conversation before, lawmakers fear boogeyman and volatility scares the hell out of them. So when it moves around quickly and people lose a lot of money, that creates sort of like a boogeyman in their mind. But the digital dollar or a stable coin approach is really effective. because you can talk about how there is no volatility. You can talk about how this saves a lot of money when it comes to the transaction fees for small businesses. You can also discuss with them the speed and the efficiency of it, how you can settle it in seconds instead of waiting for days or possibly weeks for the money to settle in your account, which is also great for small businesses who oftentimes wait days and weeks for the money to clear into their bank account so they can pay their employees so they can pay their rent. And if they aren't able to pay their employees or pay their rent, they take out these really high interest short term loans, which cost them more money. So in general, small, I think some type of digital dollar, some type of stable coin is really valuable for small businesses. And we haven't even gotten to the fraud part, right?

Because if you go into a push versus a poll system, which we're in right now, in the push system, you're not having to give any of your information out. There's no data leakage. So massive improvement in reducing data leakage, but also reduce reduction in fraud and like very likely a big reduction in chargebacks as well. Simply for the fact that you just, there's no way to have a fraudulent. I mean, I wouldn't say there's no way to have a fraudulent charge, but it significantly it reduces the attack surface for some type of fraudulent charge to occur. And so when you talk to Republicans and Democrats, they both like that. And we haven't even got to the part where all the stable coin companies have to buy up

a bunch of U.S. Treasuries, how they're one of the largest fires of U.S. treasuries in the world. And because of that, we're supporting our debt, the United States's debt and becoming less dependent on foreign governments buying our debt, which is really important in this time as we're starting to see a lot of countries move away from U.S. treasuries. Speaking of volatility, I think there's an event down in Tampa coming up. Dennis, by the way, you are invited to the Archibaldives Scott Melker extravaganza in Tampa at the Motor Enclave. It's in nine days. Shoot me the days.

It's on October 15th. It's going to be awesome. Cars watches racing. Cars watches racing. We're going to be. we're going to be in the first three hours, racing supercars around the motor enclave. Like actually racing them yourself?

We're like watching them. Actually in the cars, driving on them as fast. That's amazing. Yes. So a heck of a lot of fun. We'll have a couple hundred of our best clients there at the event. Scott's going to host some panels.

One of them could be with Dennis Porter. Yeah, we'd love to have you there. send me the ticket invite me down there's no ticket it's free it's free and so it's free and so it's free and we're going to have Ferrari there we're going to have one of our clients is the foremost collector of FP Gjorn watches on the planet so he's going to have an ungodly amount of of dollars associated with watches there yeah it's going to be going to be a really really cool event excited to be doing it. If you want to stay a lot of

there are really fast cars to get away in. But the problem is you're going to drive in a circle. You're stuck on the track. So you just have to be driving. Yeah, we'll send you an invite. Yeah, we'll send you an invite right after this. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

I can come down and talk about politics more. I'm sure I'll love. Love it. You're our last hope, as they say. We're relying on people that actually are there of pure of heart and to educate people. And I think I'll go back to what you said earlier is like, there's a lot of people that don't know anything about this space. And that induces a lot of fear. And it opens up a lot of misinformation. And one of the ways you cut through

that is just by people using it. And then they see it for themselves. And that's what everybody's about. It's about user adoption. It's about making the interface of defy, palatable for everyone to use. It's about building infrastructure like BitGo, for example, as building, like Coinbase is building. They're not building it as a money grab. They're literally building it to replace the system, the rails that we have. And one thing, I will tell you, Dennis, that I hope that you guys champion the U.S. dollar being digitized first. I think that makes more sense than any of the other narratives that the crypto talks about. I don't want USDC. I don't want Tether. I want the dollar. The dollar is the second best, you know, layer. I tried to pivot us to Archpublic. I really did.

I tried to pivot us to the event, but Tillman drags us back in. I would actually come. I could actually. I was looking at my date. So I'm supposed to actually fly to Detroit that day, but it's like a day earlier or whatever. Like I don't actually have to go. So I could actually be there. Detroit. No, that would be awesome. Detroit sounds awful. I'm serious. I'm serious. We want you there. We want you there and we want you speaking on stage. We have about three hours of content that we're going to do for our for our folks that are going to be there. So absolutely one thousand. I've never had a speaking gig negotiated live on air but before. I'm on the perfect on board of this. Yeah, I know the cardones are coming right. Do we got double cardones?

Gary and Grant are going to be there. Charlie Schrem is going to be there. Dennis Porter is going to be there. Holloway is going to be there. The 4-5-coated up Dennis's poster. I was like, who is that? Who is that on that poster? Oh, that's me. It's an AI version of me. It never gets me right.

I don't know. Like, there's people all see, like, the Sailor ones. I'm like, it looks like Sailor. Like, it actually looks like him. Yeah, mine don't work. When I see the ones of me, I'm like, uh. My favorite one is yesterday. Somebody put Tom Lee into that little dancing.

I don't know. Wilkins thing's not even real. I think that's AI generated that somebody made. It is. It's an AI-generated thing. What started it was the All-In podcast and the sweater layers. That was epic. I participated for two weeks in that.

What is that thing called? I got to find it now. I don't know. But the Tom Lee version saying Ethereum's going to 10,000 is just absolutely hysterical. Like, that's the best use of AI. Well, he commented and said, hilarious, but this hurts a little or something like that. Dennis, okay, we're down to the last few minutes here. Dennis, anything final before I let you go, now that we know you're going to talk in person in nine days. Yeah, well, I better save it all for

the event in nine days. But, no, glad to be on with you guys. Andrew Tillman, both great to be on with you for the fullest first time. Really appreciated your insights, your comments. Scott, always good to see you. And looking forward to see you. And looking forward to you in nine days. Yeah, Dennis, I'll reach out. There it is. I'll reach out on Twitter. I'll send you a DM, get you the details.

Cool, man. Looking forward to it. I love to race race cards, but it's been a while. It'll be fun. I promise. I hope so. The opposite of that, I don't know if it'll go so well. That's right.

That's right. Has anyone done Peter Schiff? It's so much gold. Okay. Anyway, yeah. I'm talking to Peter Schiff at 12, by the way. Good times. All right.

Peter Schiff's face on that thing. Put Peter Schiff. face on that deal and I'm going to show it for the whole show. All right, thank you, Dennis, man. I'll let you go. We'll see you in a week. See you.

See you, Dennis. Can I just keep this running? Yeah. Look at him. Look at him peeking around the corner. I may or may not be working on a Tillman Holloway version of this. Listen, this is the use case for AI.

use case, it's creating stupid little videos. This is fantastic. When he turns around the court right there of the hay, when he puts his head out of the hay, that's outstanding. Hey, what do you do it over there? Good stuff. I mean, it's good stuff. So what else we got, Andrew?

Well, I guess that, you know, a quick little case study around Moderna. you know again our focus is volatility pays volatility isn't going away um i mean look at the you kind of the fine print there like cash on 100k this is just year to date now that's an outrageous number right so you so obviously moderna's been extremely volatile and the more volatile um your you know the asset that you're using with our tools the more cash is is is coming off of it. But it ran 87% and it fell 34%. You know, really our tools, whether it's a stock that's skyrocketing or a stock that's plummeting over a six, nine, 12 month period, inside of that, you know, 45 degree angle, whichever way is a bunch of volatility back and forth, back and forth,

back and forth. And it's just extraordinary what our tools can do with that. And you, you see it right here. It's just well, think about it like Mike from a Michael Saylor perspective. He's taken the volatility of Bitcoin and offered a 12% dividend. There's volatility everywhere. The market makers harvest the volatility. That's why they're there. They care about two things, how volatile it is and how much liquidity can be harvested or how the depth of liquidity of the market. And Bitcoin offers fantastic, but so do a lot of assets now. The volatility is here to stay across pretty much every asset class. We've seen unprecedented amounts of volatility in silver, which is traditionally not volatile. Gold, traditionally not volatile. I mean, pretty much every asset you can

think of. Oil's gone parabolic at times. So what you can count on is the volatility. And so you have to ask yourself, am I harvesting it? Am I using it for yield potential? And if you're not, we can show you a system where you can design to your own preferences exactly what you want, according to how you want to harvest it. And you just set it and forget it and watch it work. And something is better than nothing. So if you don't have a yield strategy right now, I think you'll be exceptionally impressed with what we've built.

And we've offered it for free. You can literally download it and get started in five minutes. If you have a Gemini account, if you have a Coinbase account, if you have a tasty trade account for the equity side. And it's as simple as literally drag and dropping, plug and playing. And by the way, we have real people that pick up the phone, answer questions, talk to you about the strategies, help you with the software, and really kind of take the burden of learning it off your plate so that, you know, you can get it and start using it immediately. So put us to the test and come try it for free.

We'd love to have your feedback, whether you end up being a paying customer or a concierge member or not. We're having a lot of fun with our community. They love our tools. It takes the emotion out of trading. and it produces volatility yield where there otherwise isn't any. Can people still come next week, by the way? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

So here's the other thing too. Dave Weisberger mentioned, you know, our public yesterday talking about, so there was a meta planet just bought some more, you know, Bitcoin. After selling Bitcoin, you know, significantly lower. And Weisberger's like, at some point, you know, these companies have to get a clue as to how to appropriately do this. Like selling at the lows and buying as it runs to the upside, there's a better way to do it.

And, you know, again, our tools, whether it's, you know, institutional relationships that we have, or obviously we've done this for retail because we want you guys to have access to tools like this. It just, it removes decision-making. And again, you know, we responded and said, you know, this type of activity from metapult, planet is just proof of human error, right?

Like human error is the biggest problem in trading or decision making around investments. When you're able to meaningfully remove that, you set a will and make choices at longer term intervals and then you allow tools to act that out for you. We're meaningfully ahead of the game. We're prepared for 24-7 markets. Like that's what our public has decided that we're going to do. paired for 24-7 markets. Our tools have been working 24-7 in the crypto markets for several years. We're ready for tokenized, you know, real-world assets. So using our tools, you're going to need

to use tools like this one way or another, two, you know, a year and a half, two years, three years from now. So get comfortable and do it for free. Well, I use this and this is a great example of, like, how markets evolved. If you rewound time, 50 years ago, when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver markets, there were a lot less levers to control the markets with. And as time has evolved and as tokenized assets, tokenized silver comes online, the hedging opportunities are too good to pass up. Because, for example, if you look at this last move in silver, it moved, it went parabolic, like $40 to $120 in a relatively short period of time. And everyone knew it looked like a blow off top, even the dealers.

And how do you know the dealers knew? Well, because they wouldn't buy your silver from you. They knew there was too much risk. So they were very prudent about how much capital they placed up at those levels. When price moves drastically, the risk dynamics of that trade move. If you don't have automated tools watching those movements for you 24-7 in the markets, you're just missing massive opportunities and you're telling the market, I'm only going to pay attention when it's convenient for me. And the markets don't care when it's convenient for you. And as markets get integrated with one another and there's broader asset classes that are tokenized and they all go 24-7, there's just this new opportunity that's never presented

itself to retail customers before a retail trader. So automated tools, I think, is something that Once you see it, you can't go back. And that's why we've made it free. So you can come see it and use it and determine how valuable it is for yourself. I'm raised cars with us on Thursday. And race cars with us on Thursday. That's an art of public.com slash full dash throttle. Yeah, if you're in Florida, you absolutely should be there.

Like this is going to be a blast. You don't come. I'm not going to let you watch the show anymore. Yeah, lunch will be served. And they're, you know, a full dinner is going to be. served. We're going to have an after party at the Hard Rock Casino and Hotel afterwards. It's going to be a blast, right? Oh, my Friday should be. It'll be really good. Yeah, that's right. It's not going to be good. It's going to be worse than today's. You know, one other thing that we're going to cover

at the event is, you know, Scott's going to interview some of the customers that we serve. And they're going to talk about, you know, when they join the concierge's program, you know, how do I quickly Do I make my feedback? People are going to- Forving lunch also, guys. Yeah, yeah, Scott will be there. Scott will be there at the line, you know, lunch lady, lunch lady in it.

It will be an eye-opening deal. We're going to show off some meaningful innovation that we've been working on for several months. That's going to be, it's going to be a big deal. It's going to be a big deal. It's going to be ridiculous. You know they have a like a side-by-side track. Yeah, off-road traffic.

People out there have their like, all, you know, buggies and fresh in the area. From what I have read, that's almost as fun as the racetrack. People I know who have cars at the motor unclear, like more often just because it's more accessible, easier and just go rip it. Well, we did this in Vegas in 2025 at the Bitcoin conference, and it was the most fun that I've ever had. And it was the highlight of the trip for sure.

We'd race to all the supercars. but of all, like, they video you in the car having the experience. And so you get to race them. And you, even if you bought all these cars, you would never drive them like they let you drive them. So there's a real value there in terms of getting to really put it through its paces and see what it's all about. And the Ferraris are unbelievable. The Porsches are unbelievable. But after we got done with that, they asked us if we wanted to go on drift experiences.

And I can't remember what car it was, but it was like a Subaru Outback or something. And that was the most fun of it. I could not stop laughing. They had us going sideways, 90 miles an hour around turns. It was crazy. It was awesome. And it did, I looked at him halfway through. It was like, this is all skill.

Like, you're doing things with this car that this car shouldn't be able to do. It was, it was fantastic. It's amazing they could actually have me clean the cars after too, Ed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You go from a hand just washing cars to serving lunch. He hired Scott. He's

Cleaning the cars now. Yeah. I'm streaming it shirtless. It's going to be a fundraiser, you know, a Corwashed fundraiser. Well, if we could get Weissberger there and have Melker and Weisberger shirtless washing cars. We're even better. Is he in Florida? He lives in Miami guy.

And I think he's returning to Miami from his New Jersey home like today. All right. Yeah, we need to return to him. Yeah, it would be cool if you can somehow reconstruct. We can have them race, the two of them. There you go. If we could reconstruct, you know, your Monday show on a panel, that would probably be. We can do that.

Yeah. Without McLone. Tillman can play McLone. Thelman could be the McLone guy on the panel. You talk about golden silver a lot. He likes... One brothers. Trading bits.

Lessons of history. The key thing is. All right, guys. 959. I was about to. play another one of those AI videos and I realized I was going to get a copyright strike if I did. That's right.

Keep this thing on the rails, buddy. Okay, archpublic.com slash full throttle. That is all we have for you today before we full throttle each other next week. See you later. For 50 years, Canadians have wondered what the names of IKEA

furniture mean. Like Natopa, the guardrail for children's beds. Natopa means giving your favorite person room to grow. It means their safety and your piece of... No. In Swedish, not opa means night monkey. Ikea.

50 years of Swedishness at home. Look, he's wearing little pajamas. So cute.