The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Just RIPPED To $64K – AI’s $7 Trillion Debt Bomb Is Next

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

Bitcoin is back above $63K despite Michael Saylor selling 3,588 BTC ($216M), weak equity markets, and record ETF outflows. We discuss whether Bitcoin is showing genuine relative strength, if Strategy's selling has finally been priced in, and why the recovery in STRC could restart Strategy's Bitcoin buying engine just as the macro backdrop begins to improve. We also cover the $7 trillion AI debt building behind the AI boom, why Chinese AI models are putting pressure on OpenAI and Anthropic, the sharp selloff in South Korean semiconductor stocks despite record Samsung earnings, and President Trump's latest comments suggesting Bitcoin could eventually be added to Trump Accounts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bitcoin ripped above 64,000 today before retreating back into the 63s. But interestingly, it's happening while the Korean Stock Exchange is once again crashing. And we're starting to talk about bubbles and tops in AI with some of the Mag 7 retreating. Is Bitcoin finally showing some relative strength and can we expect it to continue? Here it is, nobody knows, but I'm still going to put Andrew and Tillman on the spot and get their opinions on it, which is all that really matters. Let's go. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to my ethereal mansion by the water here in the cloud city of I have no idea where. I never know it's going to be back there.

Producers surprised me in some days. It's just shocking. You guys should be here, but you're not, unfortunately. Here in real places. I wore my black jersey today that OKX had sent me for the World Cup to mourn to the M&T's loss yesterday. I've been watching this game they call soccer football for most of my life. I played pretty seriously when I was a kid. That was the single worst performance on a world stage I've ever seen by any team ever.

Well, in the immortal words of Bobby Boucher, Fooze ball is the devil. All right. Foozball is the devil. It's the devil. I love to be a lot. I just have a, I went for a favorite. I'm leaving in Alabama, and my wife's uncle came up to me during the party and goes, you've been watching any of that kick ball they've been watching?

I'll just tell you. In summary, the first goal of Belgium scored, we had four guys standing around who watched it bounce. There's one rule in defense. Don't let the ball bounce in the box. Four guys. Watch it. And then when the goalie came out and decided to chest the ball and then kick the ground, and then Belgium scored a goal from like 50 yards away

while our defender like literally apparently didn't know how to put his leg out but maybe the least athletic thing. So anyways, it's not soccer anymore. And it's fine. I don't think the whole controversy, it gave Belgium a little fire. Sure. Yeah, sure, absolutely.

A little extra motivation. And, you know, FYI, when you win a game four to one, they're just better than us. There's also that. If it was a two to one and one of them was on a penalty kick or something, then okay. But it was four to one, might as well be 52 to seven in actual real football here in the United States. So, yeah, not a great showing, not a great showing at all. Okay.

It's still fun to watch, though. I think you gave everybody something to do, distraction for a good week or two. Yeah, right. Speaking of distractions, Bitcoin rebounds after Trump says he's become a big crypto. guy. I don't know if you guys saw this, but somebody asked him, you know, the Trump accounts, which I think are, I think it's amazing, obviously, to like give children investments. Somebody asked him if there's a chance Bitcoin would be in the Trump accounts. He said, oh, big crypto guy.

And he went full Trump. So by the way, just for those, because I've seen it reported that, of course, that's a headline that people will grab and be like, we're getting Bitcoin in the Trump accounts. We literally can't. It would require basically an act of Congress for that to be possible. they can't do it right you're not allowed to put spot bitcoin assets inside of these investment accounts they can do you know broad indexing ets and certain things but that's not happening yeah spot bitcoin in those accounts isn't going to happen whether or not you know etf wrapped bitcoin is a is another part of the conversation because etifs are ets um but uh you know the 47 people left on crypto Twitter, of course, are going to grab this headline and squeeze it and hope that it's warm

and soft and feels good. It's been a rough, it's been a rough six to nine months. It has, even though, you know, we can talk about all the qualifiers that you want that, you know, still 64, 63, wherever we're at this morning, is effectively the top of the last cycle. I can only say that so many time and it just starts to just ring hollow. We are where we are and it feels the way that it feels. I will say, you know, a ray of hope after $4 billion in movement out of Bitcoin ETFs, there was, you know, I think $200 million that got tossed.

We got 200. It was like 200. They've got a smattering of things. Another ray of light in that area is more. Morgan Stanley's Bitcoin ETF has not had a single day about close, continues to grow, and it's now the fifth biggest Bitcoin ETF. I would bet that it'll capture the fourth fairly quickly and then end up being in the top three on a go-forward basis because of the nature of what a Morgan Stanley Bitcoin ETF is. It's a wealth management type of product as opposed to an institutional product. So, you know, people that put money in there, they're generally not going to take it out based on a headline of some sort or a quarterly rebalancing for 13F.

So, yeah, interesting things happening there if you want to grab a blanket and feel warm and fuzzy, right? Well, I do think that it's important to look at, you know, buying and systematic buying, especially during the, you know, the doom and gloom. because that rising tide does float all ships. But let's talk about the biggest rising tide that's going to float all the ships is the amount of money that we have to print. The AI, you know, investments that need to be made, the $7 trillion of debt refinance

that needs to take place. The fact that Donald Trump put his name, his signature on the $100 bill, those are all big signals to me that we're about to print a lot of money. And that's going to be the greatest tide that we could all hope to rise with. And I think that's, I think it's imminent. And I do think it reminds me, you know, of that movie.

I can't remember what it is, but it's apocalyptic. And all the people are gathered around this one hope, this pipe. And the ruler turns the water on and people are getting water. On the world? Yeah. I don't know what it is. The bottom line is like the greater the famine, right? The more the exuberance comes when it's over.

And, you know, you almost need this type of a time in order for people to recognize what's about to come and to feel it and to really press into it from a risk perspective and start spending money. And I think we're right on the precipice, to be honest with you. I feel like maybe that was one of the Mad Max movies. It was one of the Mad Max movies, yeah. Because, hey, why would the pipe be so exciting in Waterworld if you live in a world that's made of water?

It never ceases... Water was a horrible one with Kevin Costner. It was not a myth. It never ceases to amaze me the websites that you find for these headlines. I didn't know AOL still existed, by the way. You were going to make my joke. I was like, somehow my team found AOL. Whenever I see AOL in any way, shape, or form, I think of...

I think of the crazy noise to get on to the internet back then. Yeah, but just real quick, before you jump that, I mean, tell me this was kind of your point, and it's in the title, AI 7 trillion debt bomb. Next, the IMF saying here and others, I mean, there's a number of these articles, but saying basically by 2029 we're going to need $7 trillion in debt, which is going to be at, whether printed publicly, privately, or from anywhere just to build out the data centers that are even planned to accommodate the need. And that's not including the debt service requirements of our, you know,

30 plus trillion dollars of debt. There's just a lot of money that needs to be printed. And we haven't seen it for a long time. And that's when everything shrinks. And then when they printed, everything expands. And I think everything else is just noise. I mean, there are cycles and pumps and dumps and bull markets and bear markets within each asset class themselves.

But the one that changes them all is the liquidity fountain, is the printing press. Yeah, there are, you know, the biggest companies in the world, by the way, are raising debt to pay for this infrastructure. Like Amazon just announced one this morning. I think it's $25 billion in a bond issuance sale to raise capital to pay for AI compute spend. meta, you know, announced one. They're the huge, huge corporations that are deciding to, you know, pay for this movement, pay for the capital needed for it by issuing debt. So, yeah, the process by which, quote unquote, liquidity will continue to enter the markets is,

it's happening quickly. And it's being done, you know, not even at the, federal sort of treasury level yet we'll get there um but it that initial liquidity is happening uh at the corporate level right now for sure but actually when we were in new york together i interviewed jordy visor remember and that and that was his point he's like the money's being printed he's like there's stimulus it's just coming from AI and hypergrove you know and all of that and i mean he said that very clearly I mean, this was the actual paper that that number came from the 7 trillion AI debt by 2029. I mean, that is a monster number.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you've been to any of these facilities, you see why it's a monster number. I mean, these facilities, they're unlike anything man's ever built before. You mean, Bitcoin miners? Oh, wait. I mean, AI data facilities. TerraWolf did a $19 billion deal with Anthropic yesterday for 20 years, basically.

to host Anthropics, you know, like servers in Kentucky, terrible market cap, I think, was $12 billion before yesterday. And they just did a $19 billion deal. But what happened? You know, Tell me, you're a Bitcoin miner, right? I mean, that was kind of your start here in the space. None of these public Bitcoin mining companies are going to be mining Bitcoin. No, listen, compute power.

I think Bitcoin proves something to the world that the most secure network you can build is a proof of work network. So if you extrapolate from that, the value proposition to governments and private corporations, and they want to build secure networks too. And compute power is now front and center with AI. And so the question becomes, how much power cost are you applying to the compute power? And what's its highest and best use with that specific cost? And cost of power is a variable cost.

It changes now, now, now, now, now. And its primary change happens when demand changes take place, especially at large institutional levels, because when the demand threshold gets above the supply, you've got to shut stuff down. There's too much demand and not enough supply. And so that's when they cut big deals with corporations where they're like, hey, listen, you can use

rate power at a very inexpensive rate up until this demand threshold and then it gets really expensive so much so that it's cost prohibitive and they just shut their equipment down you see this even in automobile manufacturing facilities where cost of power is too high just shut it down we'll work in the overnight when everybody's at home sleeping because the demands nothing during the overnight and so there's a lot of of you know nuance to to compute power and making money with it but nothing has the potential to change deltas or affect change in the world more than AI. And so when you're talking about power that is not free, that is not bleed off power, it's going to take all of that away from Bitcoin and apply it to compute, which isn't a bad

thing, but it's also, you know, kind of, it's very, very new. And if you talk about like industries, like software coding and very technical, you know, designing and those types of things. AI is running so much compute power well beyond what a human being could manage through simulations and failure tests and all these things that, you know, left to its own devices, it will do more work in one year than a human could do in 10 lifetimes. And so I don't think we have a grasp of the scale at which this can accelerate. And so there is no end to the need for capital. There is no end for the need.

That's literally why we laugh and mock Elon sometimes for his crazy out-there statements. But what we don't realize a lot of times, he's run through all the traps and hit all the brick walls of going like, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. And so when he says he's going to put compute power in space and harvest solar power in space to do computations, I'm telling you he is. Because the resources, yeah, you have to. At the end of the day, if you chase that rabbit, that's where you end up. He has to. I mean, not only does he have to for a tall work, but he has to become the trillionaire. everybody thinks he is because it's part of the way that he invests his shares. I mean, like people forget that, you know, and we all talked about, by the way, I'm very

sad to have lived through the extinction of trillionaires now that SpaceX is down. Never thought I'd fit. But, you know, now being only a 980 billionaire or whatever he is, he doesn't get those shares unless he, like colonizes Mars, puts like enough data centers in space to like 100x the current capacity on Earth. I mean, these are crazy, crazy things. By the way, here's that hash rate chart just so people can see. I didn't even realize that the hash rate also topped right when the market topped it,

October 18th right there. Yeah. I don't know who picks this hash rate up if all the public miners stop mining. Well, the difficulty will continue to adjust regardless of how many miners. It could just be the three of us mining. We would just be very well compensated for our compute efforts. So it doesn't break. It's meant to fluctuate plus or minus 10 minutes settlement.

time and when it does it readjusts the difficulty level and the difficulty level just for anybody's identification that doesn't know what I'm talking about Bitcoin's whole proof of work network is built around like a lottery it generates a number that's very very long and then all those computers called miners are guessing the number and when one of them guesses it it has the right to submit a transaction ledger that either is a pretty or unvalidated by the rest of the network. And when one gets validated more than 51% of the compute power, it becomes the next block in the chain.

And that's why it's called the blockchain. So it's one of those things where there's a lot of technical, you know, things happening. But any time too many people try to transact in Bitcoin, let's just say there was a run on Bitcoin and there was tons of transactions, price was pumping and it just got red hot. Well, settlement times would go well above the 10 minutes. that's programmed in.

I've seen it as long as 24 plus hours where you send somebody Bitcoin and it takes 36 hours to get there. Now that's like a very extreme case. But what happened? I remember that from the earlier. First time I ever sent Bitcoin because I didn't, you know, adjust like that. It took like two days. I was like, I got stamped.

But do you remember how many people got on the forums in that 24 hour period and we're like, where's my Bitcoin? And that was the only thing that made you feel good is like. There was a system. It was something out there that was bigger. First time I thought together, I was like, oh, it's great. So, you know, three minutes. The point is, is that eventually the complications get hard enough to where it takes longer to solve them or easy enough to where it takes less than 10 minutes to solve them.

And it's constantly trying to balance it out at 10 minutes. Yeah. A lot of compute power, though. Lots. Hey, do you guys remember the Bitcoin's? Strategic Reserve, back of the new. From Bitcoin Reserve faces hurdles as departments seek control. So apparently there's still figuring out how to structure it, but apparently there's a

percent versus Lutnik or I guess Treasury versus commerce turf war over who would manage this. But what below my mind is we still don't even know how much Bitcoin the United States government has. Well, the Bitcoin Reserve narrative has returned because the Clarity Act is dead as a door nail. You've been saying that. Yeah, we've been saying that on this show. The, you know, the attestations of the Trump family crypto returns and accumulation

put that final nail in the proverbial clarity act coffin. So now we're back to Bitcoin Reserve. I think Patrick Witt was talking about it, like, you know, a few days ago or last week or something. There's some, you know, some big announcement. Again, you know, the older you get, the more you realize, you know, politics is all wordsmithing and smoke and mirrors, no matter who's there in what party they represent. So it's difficult to take any of this all that seriously.

But, you know, hope abounds. And I'm sure there'll be all sorts of. you know, commentary on crypto Twitter today about a newly revived Bitcoin Strategic Reserve. I think Lummus has already said something about it this morning. So, you know, maybe. There doesn't anything about it. So that's really me. That's a real signal.

United States needs clarity today. Right. It's, listen, it's, it's, we are. I think the O-USD was a pretty clear signal. it wasn't passing. I mean, that's them betting. That's what I said. I was like, oh, USD, that's like 100. By the way, Samsung was like, dude, why is our logo on there? I've never

even heard of this. I don't know if you guys saw that, but like half the companies on there were like, dude, they emailed us and we didn't respond and they put our logo on there anyways. Just by the way, it's crazy. But yeah, I mean, all those companies are basically saying, well, Genius Act allows us to earn all

this yield and we're sticking with that. Like, right? So, I mean, it means that they have no intention of seeing clarity past. You know, additional signals associated with just crypto overall in the, again, I really dislike kind of being a Debbie Downer, but so I like to use terms like, I want to use a term like Ghost Town, right, for crypto Twitter, but you have, you know, crypto exchanges pivoting as quickly as they, as their lawyers will allow them to stocks and futures.

Fiction markets. And prediction markets, right? And so, you know, prediction markets were six months ago. Futures were three months ago. And now they're, you know, pivoting to stocks. And so, you know, one of the guys that's been on your show a bunch of times, Tom Dunlivy, you know, he made the comment today that Coinbase is going to make the majority of their revenue from something other than crypto, you know, three to five years from

It has. Right. So it is interesting that the, you know, the ground underneath you shifts pretty quickly. And so as a business, as a company, are you able to shift as quick? And if you're really, really good, can you get ahead of that shift and see it before it happens? So yeah, there are things happening in the space that, I mean, listen, one of the most talked about quote unquote cryptos over the past week is Venice token, you know, Venice, right? Everybody's saying, well, why they do a capital raise?

You can't do equity and then you have a token. So everybody's kind of, you know, complaining or arguing about that. But at the same time, at least they're in a space and doing something that actually matters and is somewhat reasonably associated with crypto. Hard to find anything like that other than Bitcoin and kind of Ethereum. Yeah, but I hear meme coins are back. I don't know if you've heard that. This one blew my mind.

So to be like fully transparent, I don't know thinking about meme coins. It's kind of like in my dude, ignore list. But Anselm's token, the Black Bull, which is quite a name for a token. Now has a larger market cap than Trump token. Yeah. Well, we know the story of meme coins. if you're if you want to play the game god bless you i mean just black hole is bigger than trump yeah this trump is not going to be able to handle this well he didn't know maybe i think

he got trump got from trump coin what he wanted which was 650 million dollars he's regardless of price i i don't think he's a hobbler of that coin in particular but The funny thing is that I think 80% of Trump token is still locked for insider accounts, right? So actually, like, whoever, him and whoever, they still own it. The point was that, you know, people were so convinced, and this is a story about meme coins, not necessarily about him, but a celebrity token, that the incentive would be to pump the token to high prices to make money. And actually, the entire incentive is just to see a lot of trading and make the fees.

But there was actually really very little. Trump probably did better by the token crashing 97% because of how many people were selling it than he would have by it going up because he wouldn't have been able to really sell it into the market anyways. And I'm not like whoever was behind it and whatever. I don't think Trump was like sitting around doing tokenomics. I have not, you know, making that claim. But that's, you know, it was a for simply extracting fees, it was the most brilliant possible model. It was. Yeah.

And listen, it's the model of all the exchanges. That's literally what they do. Why do you think in 2017, 18, 19, they were literally chasing each other in like advertising which new ICO they were launching and how they were the exclusive launch. All they wanted was they weren't taking positions in those ICOs. They didn't care whether they won, whether they failed, whether they were, you know, the next pump and dump. They just wanted the activity. And you've got to be mindful of that. There's always another story.

And that's always something to remember. And that's, I think, one of the things that's, you know, an enemy to all traders or investors, which is that fear of missing out and that desire to get in quickly. Typically, when you're doing that, you're ignoring stuff because it's impossible to do something quickly and take everything in. Those are, you know, counter to one another. And so I think we've all been there. We've felt that. And, you know, it's important to remind ourselves.

that when we do that, it's just gambling. And you may be timing it correctly and you may win, you know, the trade because of that timing. But that's not a consistent strategy that's more of a, you know, that's gambling. You can win a lot. I know people that Andrews the worst gambler I've ever seen in my whole life. Successful. Successful.

I don't like that word worst. I am the most successful based on my amount that I gamble. and then my returns. Thank you very much, all right? Exactly. That's what everyone at the blackjack table is. They say you're not playing, so you're not losing. I don't understand. That's true. That's true. The few times that I have, I have walked away a winner. And Tillman has watched it happen, and I see him with a little red book, write notes. All right, this is the new way to play blackjack. I'm learning.

Yeah, yeah. In my little red book, I'm going, he's more. more delusional after the session than ever before. You got to buy into your own bullshit. I won, therefore I am a god tear gamble. That's right. That's right. That's right. Even the dealers going, are you sure? The fact that I doubled down on an eight against the dealer showing a king and happened to win. Yeah, I had, there were multiple times in this winning streak that the dealer looked up at Maine

with a look like, aren't you certain you want to do that? I'm like, yeah, no, no, no. I've got a system here. It's all chaos. And it was like, yeah, Andrew would get two face cards. He had 20.

The dealer would be showing a six, and he'd go, let's split them. We're probably going to get two more tens. That sounds great to me. I don't know what you're talking about. That sounds great. There's a special place in gambler's hell for you. you because everyone else at the table is just going very angry what if game what if he had

he had not done that he's making enemies faster than you can imagine oh it's the absolute i mean there i will say like it's whatever but like there is no worse feeling than somebody doing a complete donkey move right ahead of you and pulling the 20 bucks and you've got the exact part you need like they they pull the like you know they they pull the like you You're sitting on 16 versus 10. You know you got a hit. And they like pull a five for absolutely no reason and bust from like 19. It was the best that, you know, Bitcoin Vegas 2025.

Tillman's sitting next to me watching all this happen. And he's laughing hysterically. And in mid-lafter he says, you have no business playing this game. Sometimes I feel like that when I show up for the daily wolf of Yahoo Finance. It's like, no business playing. And they're going to believe me. It's going to be great. Trump's putting money in it, putting Bitcoin in your kids' count.

Let's fucking go. By the way, your Yahoo show is fantastic. It's, I think, great. It's really, really good. You know, I assume it's continuing to take off. And building it, you know, in a difficult fair market, I think, it's going to serve you and Yahoo finance really, really well. over the next two to three years.

So, you know, kudos to you. It's funny. You know, with business like in crypto, like what I've realized through multiple cycles and watching like washouts, just like with your portfolio, it's actually exactly the same thing you're doing well, you know, with Archpublic. Like dollar cost averaging at the bottom when it seems to suck is just the same as just showing up and still being there. Yeah.

But when the market share the cheapest. Can't stop now. That's why the sailor, we should talk about the seller thing. That's why I think it's like, first of all, I think it's amazing that he sold a bunch of Bitcoin and SDRC, MSTR, and Bitcoin all went up. Sure. I think that's a really important signal, regardless of what people feel about the market. The market now, I think, is pricing him out of what's happening with Bitcoin, which I think is

actually the best possible scenario. Maybe I'm a silver lining guy, but now people know that he's not going to buy and he's selling Bitcoin that he bought it twice the price. Right. I mean, he's doing, he's literally, we've talked about how his execution could have been better with Archpublic or literally anything. But, you know, like, I mean, he, he bought the top and is selling those coins. And there's very, it's very, like, difficult to skin it any other way.

It happens. But, like, it's a lesson, though. But the market, I think, like I kept saying, it was really, I think what the market was struggling with was not, will he sell Bitcoin? It's like, is he done buying Bitcoin? And now that they've accepted that he might not be buying Bitcoin for a while, sadly, because this is probably near the bottom. I just don't think we're going to move on.

Yeah. Saylor is doing what the S&P 500. He wants to be in the S&P 500. Like badly. There's a lot of reasons why if you end up getting, you know, included in the S&P 500, you know, you're now in all manner of funds. The, you know, being included.

Yeah, right. You're effectively minted unless you completely screw up in ways. that only somebody like me at a blackjack table can do. But so the point is, is the S&P told him, hey, you got to do some stuff here for us to consider this. And he's doing exactly what the S&P told him he needs to do, right? He just proved that he will pay.

I mean, so I think what, he sold, you know, $216 million worth of the Bitcoin. By the way, I didn't think he would do that necessarily this week. I thought he would just chill and let the, you know, like we put out the framework. We're good for 17 months. Let me go away. not be the main character, but he sold 260 million, but it covered, I think, a quarter of dividends for all the preferred plus, like, an extra month for some of it. So, like, he proved they can

sell less than a half a percent of his stack at any given time and cover every single obligation he has for three to four months. And I think that, to your point is like, A, the SEC wants to see that, but the S&P wants to see that these Bitcoin are actually backing these products. I think he's dipping his toe in something that's going to be a very slippery slope. And I think he's, I think the market hasn't seen the end up, but it's, I guess, the best way to put it. It's still a very unhealthy ratio, if we're going to be honest. I mean, so what, three or four months? I mean, we're talking like, but I would love to see him de-risk his position right now, even at a loss.

because the risk that you're taking off the table is the worst kind, the catastrophic risk. And if you can secure- Forcelling at the bottom. Like that's the biggest fear. No, like, for liquidation. Like where you're not even the seller, you're puking it up because you're underwater. You know, we still, even as depressed as the prices right now, he could sell, he could get five years of reserves built up and still have.

exceptionally risk laden a percentage of placement and so I just think that this is something that Wall Street is telling him hey you need to you need to manage your risk more than just you know but crash buying every single top and selling you know a little bit at the bottom like really get some money off the table so that you have a healthy percentage of cash to position if he does that I really think he's bulletproof if he doesn't don't do that I think big boys will test how solvent he is and where that breaking point is. And that may be the very catalyst that drives people down to really find out where the breaking point for him and these

products that he's created. I don't want to see that. I think it's a bad bad for everybody. But if you leave that on the table, why wouldn't you do that? He's the biggest fish that you could fry as it pertains to, you know, accumulation. If I'm a big, you know, institution and I'm looking at accumulating Bitcoin, that's the holy grail mother load scenario. Like, he has to puke it up and I get to buy it at the bottom. It's not, you know, obviously that simple and cut and dry. But in essence, it is, you know, if he became a forseller at scale, because the price of Bitcoin flash crashed to 20,000, 25,000, you know,

you are a totally different game there than you are right now. He could very easily accumulate. enough cash to put all of this noise to rest for years and never have to talk about it again. And markets love stability. And I think it's a good thing. And the market's rewarding them for it. But I don't think it's the end is I guess the point. Yeah, no, I don't think it's the last time he'll sell Bitcoin. I think it'll be an ongoing thing. I think he'll also make purchases. I just think the overall business model is no different than the concerns that, you know, Scott, you had a year plus ago about Bitcoin treasury companies.

Like if your business is simply owning Bitcoin and believing that Bitcoin is going to go up faster than everything else that you consider valuable, that's a, that's not really a business. You know, you're a baseball card collector, kind of. Well, try to be told, the only difference between Michael Saylor and all the failed Bitcoin treasury company is Sailor. just got in earlier. Yeah. Yeah. That's the only difference.

And that has to change, you know. Well, and he built up a meaningful amount of trust with his bankers. And, you know, the reality is, is that, you know, his banker relationships are of scale. And, you know, he's trusted. I don't know what those conversations have looked like over the last six months. And I don't, I'm not an executive at strategy. But we'll find out. again, you've got a quote unquote Bitcoin Treasury company at at scale.

And so that doesn't necessarily mean that the model is a fantastic model simply because it's at scale. There's an enormous amount of history in financial markets associated with, well, this model will work if we just keep doing it and doing more of it until it doesn't work. right you could find a way to connect like the mortgage crisis and certain financial institutions that no longer exist because that's the idea that they had if we just keep moving this money around again at scale in big numbers somebody's going to be left you know without a seed at the you know the little game that we're playing and we just hope it's not us so i you know i think sailors are guy. I think, you know, he'll find ways to continue to operate. But the, you know, the margins

associated here have become, continue to get thinner and thinner and thinner. And the conversation that we had last week with, who was it that was here last week? Austin Campbell, is that right? He was with us last week. Yeah. You know, his commentary, Tillman's commentary about, you know, where strategy is and what they can or can I, listen, if he makes. it through the next three years without there being a meaningful event that significantly disrupts where he's at is there a world where you know he thought a year ago strategy is going to become a bitcoin bank could that happen but the next three years are going to be they're not let's take what you just said like you need income is what i heard you just say um and you know the that is where

the best stability purchasing power comes from. Raising debt capital is cyclical. May or may not raise it. Beholding to new terms when you do. Beholden to a new master when you do. Whereas if you're generating revenue, you're not beholden to any of those things and you place that capital freely whenever you want to. I think to your point, he needs to really look at earnings, yield potential with his current capital stack and how much money he's leaving on the table from not applying it at some portion. And that may mean that he's the collateral against some real estate where he's earning income as a part of the real estate deal. There's a lot of ways to skin that cat because what he's sitting on is just a mountain of collateral that everybody wants. And so go put it to work,

earn some money behind it, and then start buying Bitcoin with that. on a consistent basis while you you know and if you do that while you de-risk your model in terms of like go sell you know a big chunk of bitcoin then you've really got a bulletproof model i mean just absolutely bulletproof and he could partner he's got reach he could partner with the biggest real estate developers and owners in in the world and do that right now you just need you need income you got to have cash flow it's just a it's it's a it's a it's a tough spot to be in. He's got somewhat limited options based on what he stated he wants to do. And so it's almost as if, you know, he's found himself. There's only two things that he can

quote unquote, you know, buy and sell. And that's his actual strategy equity and Bitcoin. That's the, that's the business model. In what level am I lending against buying or selling these two things? And that isn't income general. in any way, shape, or form. You're just selling it or when their core value relies on the same asset. Well, it's to simplify it. It's you have a garage sale and, you know, four of your neighbors buy 50% of what you sell at the garage sale and then two days later, they have a garage sale and you go

walk over there and you buy everything back and that you have a garage sale the next weekend, same things happen back and back and back forth, back and forth, back and back more. That's effectively what it is. That is a high grade. Kentucky example right there. High grade. Okay. Brad trail, yard sale. Yeah, yard sale. Sounds like y'all have done that up there a couple of times.

I am not a yard sale fan. I, I, not at all. Not a yard sale fan, not at all. But they exist and, you know, effectively the analogy works, right? Like, oh, your neighbors buy your stuff and then they have yard sale, you go buy back. Like that's, that's not a business model at all right yeah um i'm still in the camp of trump getting involved in nationalizing it in some way or uh you know using it for the bitcoin strategic reserve it's uh put put if you really knew what you were doing you could you could take what sailor has done and it really would drive bitcoin to million plus dollars um i just think the government's going to eventually step in but Hey, Scott, scroll down just a little bit on that deal there if you want to.

Hey, there we go. Not to give anything away, but we're just a few days away from actual our full-on launch. We've done what I would call a soft launch. And anytime people are in our concierge program, they get stuff first. So we've been having those conversations for a couple weeks and getting our concierge program folks. up. But this is going to be a fairly robust launch. Our dev teams have done a really great job of evaluating things like liquidity and all that stuff because it's a different market in crypto. It's not 24-7. It's effectively still about seven, seven and a half hours a day. So you've got to

figure that out. But this has been, you know, heavy, heavy demand from our customer base, heavy, heavy demand from people that are like adjacent to arch public that just want to see us do it. And so we're moving ahead with it in a big way. And the outcomes are extraordinary. You know, stocks have been on a run for a long time. It doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. And so to be able to take our tools and apply them in a, you know, over time over the next year, the amount of platforms that will add will be substantial.

So a platform agnostic, agenic, algorithmic tools, and a meaningful team behind you to walk you through it and hold your hand and understand what you're working with and dealing with. It's a really big deal for us and a really big deal for our customers. Yeah, just it's a game changer as it pertains to managing allocations across multiple asset classes, across multiple symbols. Volatility occurs whenever it occurs.

You don't know when it's going to occur. You have to be ready for it when it does, and these tools make you ready for that volatility. And quite frankly, even if you were just focused on one asset and one timeframe, it would still be incredibly difficult to monitor the volatility, get ahead of it, and actually capitalize on it. This makes it effortless and you wake up,

and there's trades that have taken in the overnight, and it allows you to, harvest you know all of that chop regardless of the directionality of any given market so if you're looking at dollar cost averaging or or accumulating any of the mag sevens or any of the commodities and things that you believe in long-term thesis is on this allows you to get a very effective cost curve to dollar cost average intelligently on dips when the volatility presents those opportunities and then at the same time take profits off the table when there are

asymmetric moves to the upside on short time frames and what you get in that is you get a management tool that allows you to allocate more capital to a position take capital out of a position harvest profits out of a position harvest losses out of a position like it's a very robust very dynamic tool that allows you as a user to create whatever profile you would like to see happen and then set it and forget it and it takes place and it happens. So come check us out. It's absolutely free to use.

We have a concierge division that is the paid side of our company, but it's the exact same software. You can come and use it for free. And as long as you're trading under $10,000 a year, you can use it forever for free. So we'd love to highlight it and show it off and get you guys running on it. And all of our employees love getting people set up and teaching them about the software.

So even if you remain a free user forever, that is available to you. We pride ourselves in our customer service and our attention on that side. So please put us to the test. Yeah, we just published a case study with the super duper popular QQ ETFs, the NASDAQ ETF. And the great thing about the case study itself is, you know, obviously products and performance, that we've got to have that for us to be a viable company. But at the same time, you have outcomes, let's call it, that there was a meaningful amount of time with the NASDAQ

where it was, let's just call it, dead money. And to me, the part of that case study that really spoke to the power of the tools themselves is when there is dead money, obviously, there's still volatility. So even if you go, I think there's a period between 2007 and 2012 where the NASDAQ was not an in favor type of index. But even in that type of period, the tools wildly outperformed made you significant money in a period where the NASDAQ was flat. Well, that's a great point. That's an excellent point because a lot of strategies are deployed, you know, based upon curve-fitting data. And they will keep refining that until they get this big, big number.

The way we produce case studies is over huge swaths of time or out-of-sample timing, very small periods of time. And we like to look at the most unfavorable time periods, because that really tells you a lot more than just cherry picking the most favorable because the most favorable time periods don't happen that often right it would have to history would have to repeat itself perfectly so we don't we don't want to judge on that and so what i would urge you is if you're sitting there going like yeah well these look great but what about this time period reach out to us we'll pull that time period whatever time period you want to see how the performance looked we have trading view literally where you can pull it up or we can pull it up with you and show you.

But I can assure you that these are some of the worst periods that we could highlight, not some of the best. And there's a purpose behind that because trading volatility or harvesting volatility or harvesting movement in a market is not predicated on that market moving up directionally or down directionally or sideways directionally. It's just predicated on the price doing this in any direction. And so that's really where you are going to go, have the aha moment. You're going to go, oh, do I have a tool?

Have I set any trading strategies out there that just take advantage of the volatility that exists in these markets? And tech stocks and ETFs and commodities and crypto and pretty much everything out there is so volatile these days that if you don't have some way to do it automatically, you're left to your own devices, which means something happens in a day where price moves, you know, with you or against you drastically. And you have no way to capitalize on it because you're not available to look at the screen. You're at work. You're with your kids. Whatever. Having the system set up prior to that event taking place is really the only way to do it. And we specialize in that.

Scott, can you go back to the slide that says the worst entry point in the generation? So people forget this. So this is, I think, you know, during the financial crisis through, let's call it, like, 2012. People forget that in 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14, the prevailing attitude and theory amongst most retail folks is, I'm not touching stocks. They're effectively toxic. Like, I'm not touching any of this stuff. It's all a rigged game. The, you know, Occupy Wall Street.

We are the 99%. Nobody touched it. And certainly on the tech stock side, which really, really got hammered during this time frame. And it came also, you know, on the heels of, you know, a huge bubble burst in 2001. So like seven years later, people got screwed twice when it came to the market. So during this time frame, like people didn't want to touch. equities very very different than where we are today so even in uh environments like that where you have a toxic almost investing type of of landscape tools matter right these types of tools that are doing

things that you otherwise emotionally would not do makes a massive massive massive difference in outcomes. And, you know, that's what we're here to provide. All right. Look at all that. They think we got slides. We got pictures. We got proof. That's right. That's right. On any time frame. Choose a date. Yeah. Try to bring your dates. In fact, we do weekly webinars with not only our concierge division, but with the general public. And that's all we do on the webinars is go through time, date periods, and different settings and play with the parameters because there's a that's where the magic happens for our customers they have this light bold moment when they realize they can program this any way they

want to and they go aha and they kind of run with it after that and then it just becomes a lot of fun and trying to find you know the kind of the magic potion that they're looking for yeah and those are interactive too so you get on those webinars you can ask us some million questions we answer them very, very quickly, just a value add instead of a show like this where you can't really ask questions. You know, we do it smaller version of it with our customer base and then, you know, a couple times a month, we do it with just a larger public. Even if you're not a customer, you're invited to come on. We'll have Melker on one of these webinars here in the next year. It's not like I've never been there.

Yeah, no. We'll have him back. We'll have him back again. Yeah, you can ask him, you know, where he gets his funny-looking shirts and the weird stuff that he drinks on these shows. Whatever. It's pastiquet. What is it? Pastiquet. Okay. So what's the...

Pastiki. P-A-S-T-E with a little thingy on top. Q-U-E. Pest-E-E-Pest-E-E-E. We call it soccer. Oh, wow. They're reaching out there on that one. Past-quare.

Marketing 101 is don't name anything something that you can't say. Hey, it's, listen, we, we get, it's fun.

It's not fun to talk about. But next show, we've got to talk about the BIP 1-10, the Bitcoin and improvement protocol 110. Man, there is some, there's some, you know,

You know it's a bare market when, like, you know, a net total of 47 people are arguing with each other about something that the other 99% don't even know what that is. Yeah. I don't think that's back. Okay, we got it. We have to go. I mean, there's no, there's no coming back from this. Great show. All right, guys, it was a pleasure.

See you tomorrow. You guys. You guys actually. Bye, guys.