The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin Mining Just Changed FOREVER - Anthropic’s $9.1B AI Bet

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Bitcoin is at the center of a major capital rotation as Riot turns its power infrastructure toward AI with a massive Anthropic deal, while Unitree’s 8,000x oversubscribed IPO signals growing excitement around robotics. Meanwhile, Tom Lee slows ETH accumulation in favor of buybacks, and the SEC moves ahead with a new crypto token framework despite delays to the CLARITY Act. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bitcoin mining just changed forever, all caps forever. Anthropic makes a $9.1 billion AI bet on riot platforms yet again another Bitcoin miner abandoning us and moving on to Greener Pastures, aka AI. What does that mean for Bitcoin mining? What does it mean for Bitcoin price? We're going to unpack all of that today. Of course, we've got Andrew and Tellman, but we have very special guests, James Butterfield here, well from coin shares. Let's go. Good morning, everybody.

Happy Tuesday and welcome to whatever room this is. I don't know what that. I hope that you're all having a wonderful day. I'm jet lagged. And so my brain's not working fully. So I'm going to bring on the guest so that they can bail me out.

Good morning, gentlemen. How are you? So what percentage is your brain at right now if it normally doesn't work at 100%. So where does it? I would like you know, Andrew, that nobody's were brain. See, I couldn't even get that. Nobody's brain works 100%.

We've never, I saw like the movie Limitless where you take a pill and it opens all of your brain capability. Your brain has the candy shell. Good morning, James. Welcome to the clown show that is Andrew. It's nice to have you here. Let's talk about the first story here because, listen, it's not new, but it's a continuation, which is obviously, the riot platforms surges 20% in premarker trading on $9.1 billion anthropic deal. So listen, I mean, this is following Iran and marathon and basically anyone who can get their narrative switched over to AI. But listen, you very closely have tracked miners.

I've had you on for years talking about this. Who's going to be mining Bitcoin once this is all over? Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really surprise me that riot. announce this. I actually went to see their Corsicana site and they absolutely said outright, no, we're always mining Bitcoin and

here we are now and I think for a lot of Bitcoin miners, this makes sense. So you need something called the four-nines in AI. It's 99.99% uptime and so that requires an incredibly robust power source and a really

decent, fast internet link. And what a lot of these miners have done over the last four or five years is built these mega-scale sites that have exactly that, really reliable power sources, particularly in Texas. And at the moment, if you look at corporate results, around 30% of revenues listed miners' revenues come from AI. But by the end of... I'm assuming that's going to be like 80 or 90. percent in two years? Yeah, by the end of the year, it will be 70 percent, 75 percent,

based on announcements that these different mining companies have made. So there's potentially a bit of an existential problem here for Bitcoin mining. We've seen the hash rate fall about 10 percent, I think, maybe from its peak. And so there is this worry. Personally, though, you don't think we should be worried. It makes absolute sense. If you look at the return on invested capital for a Bitcoin a Bitcoin mining, miner versus an AI thing. AI is around three times more, the return of invested capital on current numbers. So it really makes sense for them to shift into this.

But I don't think they are all going to shift towards AI completely. Some of them are, but it makes sense, I think, I really diversify your revenue streams for any business it does. So it makes sense to do that. But there'll always be a need for load balancing in Texas. When I went there, even at the Korsicana site,

you could hear the rigs spooling up and spooling down again as they're responding to the Eircote power grid prices and consequently demand. And that won't go away. It's a great way for energy producers in Texas to monetize their unused power. So there'll always be a need for it. But certainly these mega-scale sites that particularly riot has created,

I think we're going to shift all towards AI. And Bitcoin, interestingly, is going to become more regionalised. You know, it's interesting. Marathon's doing stuff where they're talking about containerised solutions of 10 megawatts. The course can't assign right, by the way, is 2 gigawatts. That's enough to power 2 million European homes, by the way. So, one gigawatt. But, you know, these small containerized solutions of 10 megawatts on the outskirts of town

to low balances, I think what is more the reality for Bitcoin. It's actually quite a good thing because we'll see a much more decentralized Bitcoin network over time. So I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. I think what the miners have done with these mega-scale sites is just set themselves up perfectly for AI. And we shouldn't be worried. And also there's quite an interesting IPO pipeline.

for smaller miners to come on through. Yeah, but they won't be IPOing as miners. It'll be as data center. Yeah. This is a very, very compelling workaround to the backlash currently to building out big AI facilities, right? So, oh, instead of building out big facilities, having to deal with state, local governments,

a bunch of people are out picketing, you know, all of the politics, associated with it. Oh, okay, we're not going to build one. We'll just go do a deal here and a deal here and deal here because they're already built. They take out all the stuff and we'll flip the switch on and away we go. I did think it was interesting talking about the wattage and it would serve two million households in Europe. Interestingly, here in the United States, it would only serve about 21 homes because we have air conditioning and they don't. So, you know, a little bit difference in the in the deal there but but no this is this i think this will happen very quickly and and a lot more of them are probably coming um one because this is a unique very fast and quick

we've gotten there we don't have to deal with other questions and all the craziness associated with politics around this flip the switch put in all our stuff and away we go what it means for bitcoin and bitcoin mining that's that's a better question for Tillman as he spent a lot of time in that space. Yeah. His solo minor on his desk right now has a better chance of mining. Well, I love the network. That's what got me attracted to Bitcoin to begin with.

And I probably have a little bit of an unpopular opinion in the fact that I think there's going to be a lot of pain in this space for the foreseeable future. I think it's due to the fact that we artificially inflated it. through public offerings and through concentration of debt capital and all of the things that we've applied to the treasury companies, quite frankly, we've done that to the mining companies as well. And anytime you have that kind of a disjointed effort, in my opinion, there's going to be a rebalancing. And so the rebalancing is what James was talking about, is like we've gone to a highly centralized representation of Bitcoin mining.

And we're going to go back to a very decentralized. How far will the pendulum swing? I don't know. I think if you analyze it from a grid perspective, there are a tremendous amount of motors and applications that cannot go to a variable drive. And that means there's cycles. And that means that there are demands that are fluctuating.

And you can fill that demand as long as you have the intelligent way in which you can do that. And so putting a variable drive on the entire grid essentially and using the power that's free or bleed off power, excuse me, is the way in which Bitcoin's going to be powered going forward. It's going to be a commodity that's going to be driven down to the free energy category, in my opinion, in terms of the production cost. That's not a bad thing, but I do think we're going to have to take a hard look from an innovation perspective and a deployment perspective. here in the US specifically. And I know there are some companies doing some pretty interesting things along these lines

where they're integrating Bitcoin mining functionality into air conditioning systems because air conditioning is one of the ones that has a large amount of variable, variable demand. And so there's solutions for it, but the catch-up period is the part that scares me a little bit. And then when you look at just the infighting in the Bitcoin community right now at the mining level about Bitcoin improvement protocols and, you know, the BIP 110 fork and all that stuff. It's just a mess right now. And so there's going to be a restructuring in this side of Bitcoin.

And I think Wall Street's going to lead it. And I think Wall Street should lead it. He who has the gold makes the rules. The Bitcoin action world is so embarrassing right now. Okay. You can go ahead. I can go back to that. Go ahead, James.

Yeah. Don't forget, like, you know, listed miners only. represent 25% of the hash power. So there's a whole 75% I don't know about this around the world somewhere. James, can I ask you? As you go on to that, because I just ask you, so that percentage, though, how much of that is the hash power in the United States? I guess one of the bigger stories would be like if all the United States publicly traded miners turned into AI data centers, are we going back to a bunch of mining that's quietly happening in China? That's really, difficult to know, but we have some indications. So if you look at, for instance, when we had the

really cold winter in Texas, power prices went through the roof. If you look at the hash rate, it really fell. So clearly, like, power prices have a big impact at the top end of the hash rate. But it really, yeah, really hard to know exactly what's happening there. I mean, you just have this narrative, you know, Trump make America the crypto capital of the world, all the Bitcoin will come here. We want to mine all the Bitcoin. seems like we're going in the opposite direction. Well, Bitcoin mining, it hunts out the cheapest form of power. And for a long time, that's been Texas.

You know, you can get five cents to kilowatt hour for power. You know, the ordinary consumer will probably be spending 10 to 15 in the US per cent per kilowatt if not more. So it's very cheap. And then curtail power is incredibly cheap. It can sometimes, you know, like if you look in places like Norway where I'm involved in some mining operations, they're sometimes being paid to take the power. And so Catell power is always have a place for Bitcoin mining because it's never something you can use in AI.

So I think that's one compelling thing. And there's another huge power source that it's not used around the world. I wrote this in a report about a year and a half ago. So stranded gas or stranded energy, if you look at stranded gas specifically, there's enough stranded gas emitted in the world. So this is stuff that they drill a hole in the ground, they get some oil out, and a buy product is all they might not. know what to do with. So they just burn it off because they haven't got a pipeline to extract it. There's enough stranded gas emitted in the world to power the whole of South and Central America for a year. So there's a massive amount of power to be taken. And you know, you could go

place, most of that is coming from the Middle East. You could drop ship containers with next to a sort of Yembach generator gas to power generator and monetize that gas immediately on site without the need of building pipelines and all those sorts of things. So I actually think we will see that transition to more stranded renewables and stranded energy. We're already seeing evidence in Africa of Bitcoin mining, subsidising, unprofitable hydro plant power plants and things like that. That's where it's going to go. And actually, I think it's really positive. So actually, you know, if you took all that stranded gas around the world and put it through a generator, you're reducing carbon emissions by 63%. So actually, this is a really positive thing,

environmentally a message for Bitcoin, too. I think the hard part about the energy space, and I was in it for a while, is like, by the time you got that infrastructure built at scale, something new would be, you know, a compelling case that we should be, you know, looking at as a better alternative. Like the, like battery technology is a good example of this. Right now, if you look at the solar generation, it's the cheapest way to generate power, period of the end in terms of renewable, free. The problem is, is in the storage of it and in the load capacity that it can manage.

That's going to change with Silver State batteries. That's going to change a lot in the next 10 years and the next 20 years. So the same reason why we do have drones now, but we didn't, you know, 10, 15 years ago at a residential level is because the battery technology allows it for it. You didn't have the functionality that you did back then that could cost effectively deploy it at scale. And we're going to have that type of technology. And this isn't going to be as big of an issue, in my opinion, because solar is the answer. We just have to tackle the storage and the load issues.

And that's being tackled right now. And some of these new silver state batteries are, you know, orders of magnitude more efficient and more capable to do. these types of things and applications than, you know, the previous predecessor. Yeah, I want to move on. I think there's a great conversation. We spent about 15 minutes on mining and energy and I think there's some other topics that I want to jump to. And James, I know you kind of send some notes in advance and I wanted to dive into this one, although I made a solemn promise to never say the word clarity act for a month because I thought that I had the opportunity. Yokes on me. We're going to talk about it every day. But, you know, we have this. So U.S.S.

SEC sets meeting to propose reg crypto to support certain digital asset offerings. You had kind of pointed out pre-show that you think that one of the sort of incidental or I guess collateral damage of the Clarity Act continuing to be delayed is that the regulators are also waiting to see if the Clarity Act happens before they'll do rulemaking. And maybe we're going to get some rulemaking soon as the Clarity Act kind of stalls here. Yeah, I think you certainly see this like in fund flows data and just generally across investor sentiment. This is not a Bitcoin thing.

This is more of Ethereum, Solana, defy thing. That there's still quite a lot of regulatory uncertainty. And that really weighed on Bitcoin before the ETS were launched. And then obviously we had the Strategic Reserve Act and other things that really helped with investor confidence. and it green-lit corporations to get involved in it. And I think it's still lacking now with, I mean, the clarity act looks like it's going to pass at some point,

but September the 15th, I think it is for the next vote, if it happened. It's 2047 and it's going to be written by. Yeah. But yeah. You know, right in the middle of midterms and election airing and everything, it could be quite a difficult one to actually happen at that point. But, yeah, I think it's just, it's uncertainty. Reg uncertainty overhanging.

I think it's making investors cautious from that perspective. And naturally with the SEC, they don't have a framework to work off before they start forming regulations, particularly the one which I'm real advocate for is the ethics side of things which they need to clear up on the Senate. But I think that's actually really needed. Yeah. But it's such a catch-22 with ethics.

I mean, listen, if you were listening to me, who knows nothing, but in December I thought it was really obvious that we were just, it was misdirection. Every narrative about the Clarity Act was a way to not talk about the fact that ethics wasn't going to happen, and that's all that really mattered. We have this problem now where if they don't pass the Clarity Act, Democrats are fighting saying the Ethics Clause doesn't go far enough, but if they don't pass the Clarity Act, Trump can just do whatever he wants. Anybody can do whatever they want.

Yeah, it just none of it, there's, it makes no. sense. Well, I think we've been talking a lot about a lame duck president. Look, I don't know if it's going to happen in the US, but if it did, where the Senate and the House are controlled by the Democrats, I actually don't think it's going to have much of an impact overall. I still think they'll still progress, because if you look at the floor vote in May for Clarity Act, it was very bipartisan in that respect. And, you know, in the US, like UK, they have a government debt problem and having a marginal buy of government debt, i.e. stable coins is a very good thing. And so I don't think there'll be a huge political reversal of some of the Trump-friendly policies

in that respect. That's my take on it, but I'd be very interested to hear what other people. But there's really quickly, I mean, what the SEC is proposing here with Red Crypto is basically a structure that allows companies to transparently fundraise for, you know, token offerings or for their company. And then the idea of safe harbor that Hester Perth has been literally proposing for half of a decade in which you could effectively launch a company or a token in the United States and with some sort of, you know, maybe a three-year safe harbor period where you become sufficiently

decentralized and then you're able to continue to exist without being a security, like really obvious things that everybody knows we need, regardless of whether like Elizabeth Warren is, you know, having a seizure today about Trump's crypto earnings. So by the way, Trump's having a rough crypto run here too, but we get into that, I guess, separately. Andrew, Tellman, any thoughts here? I mean, before we have to puke about clarity again. I think politics are just so messy right now.

I mean, if you try to make sense of it, you're just chasing your tail. I do think, I agree with everything James said. I think the Clarity Act will get passed. I don't think it will happen anytime soon unless we start seeing flights being booked to Jekyll Island by about 12 people. But other than that,

I don't think that it happens. Train. It took the train. There's their private submarines. But yeah, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. And I do think it's, you know, my whole point to whoever is talking about the ethics clause, we all know who they're talking about. Isn't it a little too little too late on that front?

Like, you know, we're just now talking about the rest of us. So can't we get on with business? We're going to get rules about Trump and crypto. Trump is entirely exited crypto. It's exactly way of the same. I mean, Trump beat his Bitcoin holding shrink as crypto losses at $361 million. So like they sold like

60 Bitcoin. But obviously like they're down bad. Right. If you saw the news that we didn't even really deeply dive into, they basically canceled their deal with crypto.com, the CRO treasury company. That's not going to happen. They had UTF plans with crypto.com. That's not going to happen.

Like, we're in the depths of the bare market. They made billions of dollars. And now or now we're trying to be part of me that was hopeful that that was concessions in order to get the clarity act path but maybe that's just naivities speaking but yeah yeah basing uh monetary decisions on political outcomes has been a you know a waste of time for a much nancy pelosi yeah well i mean again to to that point like we've been trying to come up with ethics around stocks for a long time and nothing's ever happened. Meanwhile, again, if you take out Bitcoin and Crypto, broader markets just keep going higher, literally no matter what. So that's the way to look at it.

I said, you know, clarity was dead six months ago. It's just luck probably that I was right. But to your point, Scott, you know, the ethics stuff is the, was the, you know, elephant in the room. Like there's no version of Democrats that are going to agree to anything on that side of it leading up to an election that they want to win. They can use this as a club as they're doing stump speeches across the country. Yeah, wait until they get to the ethics clause on prediction markets. Exactly right. The guy who's running his teleprompter is making bets on what words are going to be in the speech that he's reading in real time. You know, like, and I'm not, That's not the way to...

Well, you can, you know, exhibit A about something like that is, you know, like, what's his face at Coinbase, Brian Armstrong. They're saying a bunch of things that are, what are you going to say? I mean, right there. Right. So it's, you know, you never want to use the phrase. It's better to ask for forgiveness than, you know, permission. But it seems that oftentimes markets move in that direction, like innovate, innovate,

innovate, innovate. At some point, a decade later, somebody will get their hands around this stuff. And what they, you know, were considering a decade before is irrelevant. I mean, it's something to be like 97 years old and they're going to be like, we've passed. Yeah, we, I mean, listen, quote unquote, rules of the road on the internet happened 15 to 20 years after the internet became a thing and just, you know, took over the universe, right? So everybody has to click on a little button when you go to any website now saying accept something, right? That didn't happen until about three years ago. Before then, it was just complete absolute chaos and anarchy as it relates to collecting data around where you go and where you've been. So, yeah, we're a long way off from.

Yeah. So I made this quip, James, before. It's been a rough run for the Bitcoin maxis the last few weeks, right? So we have gold card hack, which to me is such a big deal. And I'm not trying to make light of that, obviously. Because to me, it's different because those are the people who did everything right. They listened to the Bitcoiners who said, you know, be your own bank and store this away and you'll be safe and oops.

Then you have BTC pay, which is basically like, you know, hey, run your own node, you know, verify your own transactions. Oops, lightnings. That's messed up for lightning. And then, of course, you have the, like, utter embarrassment of BIP 110. And I don't really have a take on either side. I just think it's, like, ridiculous, like the nerd fights. You remember bum fights that show they say, have we, these are nerd fights.

And so, like, you just have a bunch of people who should be completely irrelevant, making themselves relevant by arguing over something that probably doesn't matter. But, like, I just wonder sometimes if you're, I guess institutions probably don't care. But you sign on to Bitcoin Twitter. You're like, I'm into this new Bitcoin thing. It's awesome. And then you see a cold card hack, Lightning Network, like being drained, and a bunch of guys arguing something you don't understand about spam and whatever.

And don't you just go, this is dumb. I'm going to go by Nvidia. Yeah, so this is like the first amongst investors, the first question that comes up. They hear about a cold card and they go, okay, well, that's it. Bitcoin's been hacked. Clearly it hasn't. But that is the inference. And then they sort of try to kind of dismiss the whole asset completely.

And I think that's incredibly a misguided view. Partly because the cold card hack, although it's harsh for people, what was it, 2,500, 3,000, Bitcoin entitled, not a huge amount of Bitcoin that was vulnerable. Well, I thought what was really interesting about cold card is the way in which the exploit happened. Finding out that the random number generator was not random, and exploiting it. That's incredibly sophisticated in my view. And I'm convinced, although

Cold Card can't say so, they can't determine it, but it was an AI exploit to figure that. Either that, or there's been an idea that I saw something, God knows, I don't know anything that's true on X, but that the CTO or the guy who actually developed it in the first place, there's evidence that he was using another name in the programming chats and pretending to be somebody else and maybe he kind of let it sit there lately for years. But it seems very obvious that this is a mythos thing type thing, right? I mean, you unleash AI and it acts everything. So what makes a network vulnerable? How many different attack vectors are there? And actually, Bitcoin, there are very few. But with something like traditional finance, there are a huge number of attack vectors.

So theoretically, it should be more vulnerable. We should be talking about the one, you know, we've just had a bunch of hedge funds attempt to get. hacked. I think the story of AI-assisted hacks is going to really escalate. And I think actually the Tradfly world is way, way more vulnerable. We just not had the headline yet. Yeah, let me ask you this then. Yeah, I agree. So let me ask you this then. So we've had this historic run basically. It has ended of ETF outflows, right? Everybody knows. We've talked about it forever. But we saw the biggest bump in ETF inflows last week, basically since April. Prices. effectively stagnant, that hasn't been reflected. Do you believe that there are people now

who used to be self-custody maxis who are saying, forget this, I'm just buying the ETF? There's definitely been, we have seen specifically clients that have built relationships with well-known wealth managers. They've built their wealth in Bitcoin and are now shifting to ETF. There's definitely some of that is happening. Like quantifying that, it's very hard to tell. But I hear that narrative more and more now that some are just saying, right, well, you know, ETFs have that institutional grade custody and therefore I'd like to do it. But there's always those people that are going to actually rather have a bit of paper with their wallet address on it, aren't they? So, but yeah, there does seem to be a little bit of a trend, but it's quite hard to quantify.

I think I don't want to miss quote, but I think I saw something being discussed where Black Rock was floating or had found a way that you could convert basically your spot holdings into Ibit without a tax event. Because I'm over it from 25 million to a million. Yeah. So you can now do that without having the, you know, tax loss of selling your Bitcoin at a profit. You can just convert your spot holdings at the TTF. So they clearly see this as an opportunity. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, they literally are, they were standing there waiting to catch the business, lowering it from 25 million to a million is a massive inclusion. You know, it's a... It's a... It happened yesterday, and it's massive news, because now if you have spot and you're worried about all these things, you have no reason not to trust, I mean, to make the conversion in my estimation. You believe in self-custody and being your own bank, but yes, if you're not, if you're not

a hardcore ardent, like, you know, kind of guy who buried. your gold in the backyard and you just view it as an investment. But my argument even there shortly would be like how many millions of dollars do you need to keep in your BTC backyard buried emergency fund? I think that's right. I mean, when I was at ETF securities, we had Europe's largest gold ETF. And there's always that discussion about personal custody of gold versus institutional grade custody.

and the ETF offered the ability to receive physical delivery of gold. And in 15 years, you only had one person want that physical delivery. Because there's massive practical reasons why having a load of gold bars at home is quite a dangerous thing to do. And I think Bitcoin in a way, now it's risen up so much in value over the last 10 years. Ultimately, Bitcoin on a USB stick or in your head is a kind of a bearer instrument. and I'm sure lots of people, when they've got lots of Bitcoin and they execute a trade, it's incredibly nerve-wracking waiting for that. I've had it where I've done a trade, and it's stuck there for half an hour,

and I'm wondering what's going on and the stress of that. So I can really see the allure of handing it over to a bunch of professionals. And additionally, you know, the kind of exploits on Cold Card don't sort of exist on the ledger hardware security modules, which are the institutional grades, sort of hardware devices. they have white listed wallets and stuff, so you can only move Bitcoin to certain wallets. So there's so much high level of security. Yeah, I mean, there's great companies.

They'll lose your data. Your Bitcoin is safe. But it's like I watch these, but I'm sorry we're keeping you a little over time here, James. You have a few more minutes? That's fine. Yeah. I mean, it's like, oh, well, the thing,

and I kind of made a joke about this on my other show yesterday, it's like your customer service for cold, Carter is telling people why they're dumb and it's their fault. I mean, it's like, you go on there and like, well, you didn't get the proper casino dice with your Dungeons and Dragons dice with 64 sides, and you didn't roll them 99 times to increase your entropy. And I'm like, what the hell are we doing here? Nobody wants to do this. Nobody wants to do this. Like, nobody wants their Texas Instruments calculator and they're rolling dice. I mean, nobody... Especially when you can just insure the problem. I'm a custody guy, but it's good for like one and a thousand people who are willing to do the work.

Well, it's also good for like less than one percent of your holdings, right? If you're a rich guy and you've got $30 million, you're going to keep $300,000 on a cold storage just in case the world burns down, right? That's the only reason to do it anymore. That's it. That's the only reason to do it anymore. Listen, just moving into a more sense. sophisticated investor category. People who are wealthy are more about wealth preservation than they are more are about wealth, you know, capitalization or making money. And if you think about like the risk that self-custody, that you can't self-insure that. You can, but you just, you're the guy who takes the loss, just like you saw with the cold card. But any of these big institutions now, like they'll lose your data, Scott, to your point, but if they lose your money, they pay you back. which, you know, they can't pay me my data back,

but at least their coverage on the insurance side of things mitigates all of this risk. And it's a very elegant, easy-to-deploy solution. I just, I guess the nuance there is that at least they can see where kind of where the Bitcoin went, and we'll see if those people can actually cash it out or if any of it's recovered, that whole blockchain thing. Go ahead, Jay.

Yeah, for many of these physically backed instruments, which sounds a bit weird because it's a digital asset. you can receive physical delivery. There's always that option of receiving physical delivery. You don't want an ETF form. You want it on a USB stick or something. You generally can do that. It's not easy, but it can be done.

There's always that. And I think the mobility of Bitcoin is still preserved in that scenario. For example, if you're in a war-torn country and you have a lot of money in Bitcoin and you have most of it on an exchange, well, there's nothing that keeps you from pulling and off in an exchange and putting it on a cold storage wallet and taking that with you to wherever you're going and then like you still have the functionality it's just the trust issue of like does the exchange cut me off well i mean you're going to trust a wallet provider you're going to trust a you just made the i'm sorry to interrupt i mean that the thing is that you were told like not to

trust any counterparties and then you found out cold cards a counterparty point go right it's like don't trust any counterparties, be your own bank. Well, like, is coin kind any different than, you know, Voyager here? You know, like, it's that they mess up. And the game's point, AI is going to find every exploit that it can. I mean, there's more

out there for sure. I love this comment. Cold card are not for your fucking grandma or nubes. It's for purest. How'd that go for the purest, dumbass? That's the point. Sorry. You got my. Yeah, I just think we're going to be in a situation.

though, where some finance, you know, if you look at Romania, it recently had his government property ledger hacked. And so, so really, theory, in a way, and they didn't have a backup. So theoretically in a way, no one really quite knows who owns what property, you know. And I think we're going to hear more and more instances of this in the traditional physical world, so to speak. And actually, I think this is really going to benefit things like Bitcoin. People realize actually it can't be hacked. And there's quite sophisticated security. things that just based on pure maths, that AI can't get around. And there's so many of attack vectors.

There's actually so much more money that's vulnerable in the Tradfai world than in crypto. So this is, it could become just a massive story. And if we see some major hack of some government ledger or something like that, it could really benefit something. Yeah, but you and I both know that money doesn't mean anything. If it's hacked, they just print more. and it's a rounding error of a rounding error of a rounding error in terms of the supply. And so the point is, is like the illusion of fiat being valuable is protection against this very

exploit in these hacks because it's not valuable. And everyone kind of, but Bitcoin is valuable. It's scarce. And so when you, when there is a hack, it's much more significant. And there has to be additional measures put in place. in terms of insurance policies and like you were saying like layers of security white listed late white listed and you know they've already got this in place this problem has been fixed cold card is an example of like a dinosaur left in our ecosystem that is going extinct

in my opinion and i think there's going to be a mass exodus from from cold storage into any type of these custody based solutions If we want a preview of what, let's call it, you know, Bitcoin protocols are going forward, take a look at the CNBC roundtable that announced a $500 billion investment into AI infrastructure yesterday. That's a preview two, three, four years from now of, oh, we think this is what should happen with the next protocol adjustment because it was Black Rock, JP Moore, it was all those guys. I honestly think they had to have figured this out before they got into the game, but

they're, I don't know when the Wall Street fork happens, but it's coming, I promised. Yeah. Yeah, interesting stuff, no doubt. All right, James, I kept you long enough. I appreciate you taking the time to join it. Any final thoughts? I know if you do have two more minutes, you know, anything else before I let you go. Well, I used to talk about fun plays. I've not talked about for a while. I've not actually been publishing it for a while, but yeah, I think it's really interesting what's gone on. I mean, I look at global flows, not just the US, although the US dominates. And we've had this period. So there were two billion of assets under management in Bitcoin back in 2018. And there was a big outflow event then. And it represented, I think it was

around sort of 8 to 9% of assets under management, the outflow moment. And actually, what happened this summer in May and June, eight weeks of outflows totaling $8 billion, is proportionally very similar to the outflows we saw in 2018. And to me, it signifies that capitulation amongst investors and the low point in markets. And this is something we've been talking about quite a lot on the trading desk. You just said the bottom bit, you just didn't want to say it. So, yeah, the low point. We're there, I think.

And what's interesting is we've now seen we're in our fourth week of inflows. One week was a bit flat, but they're not big inflows. They're like hundreds, you know, or last week, sorry, it's about a billion dollars of inflows, 1.1. But there's like this tentative step back into the crypto assets. And we've just finished a survey and a lot of clients are thinking it's looking quite good value right now. So I think we're done. You know, I think the lows are set in.

I still think we need like some, what is going to stimulate the next real ramp up in prices. And I don't think that's clear yet. It's got to be something around monetary policy. And I can't see Kevin Walsh suddenly turning around and saying, yeah, we're going for it. We're cutting rates like mad. I think, but I do think consensus is wrong. I don't think we'll see any rate hikes this year. And I think there'll be this gradual realisation throughout the year.

We've got some crappy jobs numbers in the US recently. and there'll be gradual realization that actually he's not going to hike rates. And slowly, I think that will bit by bit really support the crypto market. But when will we see the next really strong leg up? It's either got to be the Fed, really going dovish or Wales coming back in. And I don't think whales are going to come back in until six months before the next hardening. So about, you're going to be on October 1st, the minute that the clock changes so that we can talk about October and how the four-year cycle is so obvious and that we wasted years talking about these things.

That's what's going to be so frustrating. It's painting a pretty exciting, compelling picture. I mean, I think that's what every, I think you just made a lot of Bitcoiners cry out there with hope. I think we're waiting for the bottom to set. Well, there's some really interesting measures. One I really like is NBRV, so that's market value over realized value. So realized value being the weighted average acquisition costs of Bitcoin. And if you look at that, we're at cycle loads now for MVRV.

So it happened in 2018, 19, having in 22. So that's, if you're taking a sort of bit, it's like the case shiller for equities. You have to look at a really sort of long-term picture for it to really make any sense. And I think MVVs, NVV is a bit like that. It's that long, you take a long-term perspective, and I mean that two, three years plus, actually now is a really interesting. entry point for digital assets, Bitcoin in particular. Yeah. I agree with everything you just said. It made me excited.

So that's coming. I think the bottom's into. I think everybody here generally agrees. Bottoming is the process. But I think all things point to boring and then up. And I'll take boring and then up anytime. Gives me a little more time to buy. Right. You know, accumulate a bit more. All right, James, thank you so much. Appreciate you joining as always. And we'll see you very. soon. Pleasure. Thanks.

See you. I'm still thinking about that comment that I made. Listen, I want you to know that last week with me as the host was uniquely better than this show. Believe it. I've seen it in the comments that, you know, people are talking about it. One guy was like, Andrew should have his own show. Andrews goes up in like a tux next week. And I'm like, sorry, say.

He's been acting like a prick this whole week. This is exactly what I was getting at, though. Like, it's your fault. You weren't purest enough. So you got hacked. Listen, virtue is everywhere, every front. And it's like, you know, you're judged on not only what you don't do, but what you do do. And everybody just has an opinion and they want to hate another group.

The maxis have been a problem for a long time. Listen, I'm with you, Scott. I actually somewhat know what's going on. It's not like at the depth of those guys. But the behavior that both sides have exhibited is just embarrassing. It's just like, it's just like, I listen, I come back to like Bitcoin maxis. Like I give them all the credit in the world for getting Bitcoin to where it was. Let's call it 10 years, 12, okay, generously, 15 years in.

Right? Sure. Then I realize you're just a bunch of like, it's just a religion. Exactly. You need to move on with your fucking lives. And you know what they did? Here's the thing. They did.

They dumped on us at $126,000. So. And then they bought Zcash and pumped at 8X. Well, and they cashed out with Bitcoin treasury companies. Right. So. I'm going to get to so much trouble again. that interview I guys said to guys the one I did on when shift happens yeah the thing people

me is where I said I was like I've I'm like a unicorn because I can be called a shit coiner by Bitcoin Maximus but I can be called a Bitcoin Maximus by shitcoiners I don't belong to anywhere yeah it's amazing I can be universally liked and disliked by all the same I mean to me it's all to me it's all about utility and about people and what they want to do I was going to bring up a point I was on a football team a long time ago, and one thing that stuck out to me is that we gambled on everything together. You know, we literally gambled on dominoes. We gambled on dice.

We gambled. When we were together, cards, we liked that type of competitive. And I think sports betting and the explosion in that industry that we've seen is the tip of the iceberg. I think that you cannot keep people from doing these activities. and technology allows them to do it 24-7 with a wider group of participants. Like, you know, I'd have a poker game locally if I could,

but guess what? I don't know anybody around here that plays poker. And there's no online site that you can do. I have no friends. Well, I'm just going to up in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to make the connection between Bitcoin Maxis and now the gambling conversation. I'm aware.

Here's my here's the connection. action. Thank you for asking. Utility matters. Ask the hard questions. Utility matters. And for Maxis to go, like nothing on the blockchain has utility other than Bitcoin is stupid. I thought it was stupid 10 years ago, and I still think it's stupid. And I think that every single thing that you can build on the blockchain has a potential

utility attached to it. And I think different blockchains have different applications that are, uniquely suited for their technology. And my point is, is like, you're seeing people who are fighting about old technology. And then you see, like, hyperliquid focusing on new technology. Where's all the money going to the new space, where the users are, where people are showing up to roll dice together in a global platform with billions of dollars of liquidity. Like, that's where people are headed. And it's not going to stop. So you bring- He's dice rolling, though, the fun kind.

The fun kind of dice rolling, not the bad, not the, not the entropy dice rolling. That was assinine last week. Like, absolutely stupid. Entropy and dice rolling. And somehow that was a meaningful part of the discussion. Well, let's tell the viewers why, because I thought. Gary Cardone's in the comments now talking shit. I need Scott's money and Andrews also.

If you guys remember the last card game, I played with. with Gary. We have a clip of him taking a saying I took all his salamis. Oh, yeah. Gary, we're coming to Tampa. We're coming for you, buddy. We're coming. Nice rolling event after the high

stakes cashiest fish. Take your... That's right. That's right. That's right. You're rolling. I will crush you, I believe him. Listen, I want to play some dominoes and we'll gamble on some dominoes. I've played a lot of

Dominoes in my day, and it's a lot of fun. Gary and I played this game. I've told it, like, we were in Vegas, you know, two years ago for the day, double down, double down poker or something, double down blackjack, where you could, like, double down literally on every single card, first card, double down. It was the most part of that. It was me, Gary, John Deaton, Marco.

Marco. And, like, any random who did. Jared sit for 30 seconds before we embarrass them to the Lentem packing. Utility matters, and we are all DGINs. That's the point I'm making. You know, if you can offer a service to all of us that allows us to play our game of choice, then it's going to gather attention. In other words, Gary paid me and take Internet money when I could have taken real money.

I'm about 80% of what I won. What a game. Okay, let's talk about other things. Like, we got this little thing called Archpublic. I want to tell you guys, though, I'm signing up for Tasty Trade right here. Look at that. Earned a 3% cash match. Andrew, why don't you break down how Tasty Trade is not a gay dating site and is actually?

Yeah, I'll never be able to unhear that now. It was like, Andrew somebody that said you. It was like, we were talking about Tasty Trade. I can't react my smile to frown fast enough. Can you get me a little leeway so I can publicly shame you with my facial expressions? I want James Quinn on this show. All me a bit. Get them on.

Andrew. Listen, our equities and ETFs, we initially launched with Tasty Trade because they do a great job in terms of liquidity and margins and costs, or lack of costs when it comes to actual commissions. So, you know, we've launched on Tasty Trade, and so far all of our customers that have, you know, signed up and started using our tools. The same tools that have been extraordinary in the crypto space, we adjusted those tools so that they're uniquely as valuable in equities and ETFs. So we've done an enormous amount of case studies on the equities and ETF side. the delta variance between things like buy and hold or even DCA and what our tools can do are just kind of mind blowing a lot of people that are watching this show have been on our webinars a private webinars showing that stuff off and TastyTrad is a is a great platform for us to start with there'll be other platforms but yeah Scott's going to sign up for Tasty Trade here shortly and and you know it says right there there's an opportunity for what TastyTree is.

is doing for people that sign up. It doesn't have anything to do with us here at Archpublic, but NastyTRA can do what they want. I need to be able to run. Yeah, it's important for everybody here. My profile photo for TastyTrad should be shirtless. Yeah, we do not get paid by exchanges. We do not make money for you signing up.

We have no deal with Tasty Trade. Tasty Trade happens to be a very technologically forward exchange that's looking at integrating markets and integrating automated solutions and having API and Oath 2 connections and functionality that is literally at the tip of everyone's tongue in all of the exchanges and they're they're building it out as quickly as they can on a lot of fronts and you can see that happening I mean Jim and I offer stocks now I think Cracken offers stocks now this is going to be a connected 24-7 global market that you can trade crypto options gold silver perps you name it and we're just in the technical build-out phase of that kind of journey there's a lot of infrastructure

being built out right now tasty trade hats off to them they they've been they kind of saw the future and got ahead of the curve their logos little cherry yeah um no it's It's, it's, think of it this way. The crypto markets have had a, you know, a difficult 12 months. The equities and ETF markets have not had a difficult 12 months. They've had a fantastic 12 months. But even then, you're talking about meaningful differences in performance to the tune of 80 to 100% above buy and hold and DCA. And again, we've got case studies all over our website that show that stuff off and the reasons why and how and all those things.

things. Also, at Tasty Trade, you know, if you want to avoid things like, well, if I'm going to take some profits and taxes and stuff, they offer IRAs, right? So if you want to use our tools inside of qualified account, you're able to handle that issue. So, you know, we cover the gamut of stuff associated with what we do from a tool standpoint. So come talk to us. Come, come do what Scott's about to do. Put some money to work. see what the outcomes are and then decide how much you're going to deploy. I will say this, you know, automated algorithmic agentic type trading is kind of the buzz right now across traditional markets. Yeah, it's, but it is. People are talking about it like crazy because two to three years from now it's going to be ubiquitous because markets are going to be 24-7. And so you're going to have to use some sort of tool slash tools.

to be able to take advantage of movements when you're asleep. And that's what we're really, really good at already. Volatility is a gift. Yeah, on top of that, too. We have a team of people that will spend time with you. We'll help you with this. We'll hold your hand. We'll say this is what we think.

This is what we look at. This is what we have seen work. And you get to make those decisions standing next to somebody, a human, on a call like this all the time. Well, and if you think about it, about all the other agentic messages right now. A lot of people are focusing on these black boxes where you don't know what's going on inside of them. There's a lot of risk in that. And I don't think people are ready for it. What you're going to get with us is a programmatic tool that is an extension of your will in the markets. You'll know exactly what's happening because you're the one that

picked it. You're the one that programmed it with our help. We've made the user interface as simple as we possibly can. How many dice do I need to roll? No dice. You don't need to roll any dice. No, no doubt. Someone asked a question, this is impossible to answer, but it gives you a launching pad. You know, what's the average ROI on Arch per year? It really depends on what you're trying to do.

Yeah, it's, don't look at it as an ROI. Look at it as trying to, a force multiplier on what you're trying to accomplish. So if you're trying to accumulate, the question is, is when are you available to accumulate? and are you getting advantage, are you taking advantage of dips when you're accumulating? If the answer is, is that you don't have time to sit in front of a computer

and wait for those dips to take place, our tool can help you accumulate at a lower cost curve because it's available. It's sitting there waiting for those things to take place. Conversely, it can take profits on asymmetric upside moves to harvest volatility that continue to allow you to have dry powder. So it's more of a rebound. balancing management tool, but it's very, very robust. And the best way for you to experience it,

honestly, is to use it for free. That's why we offer it for free. We want you to see it for, it's all of its glory, and for you to come to us and say, I want to join the concierge program. I want to be a part of the community at a deeper level. But that's as soft of a cell as we could possibly give you. This is very different than anything you've ever experienced. And we want you to experience it. So please reach out, schedule a demo, and we'll walk you through it and we'll get you set up absolutely at no cost and you can continue to use it at no cost there is no as long as you're under the the $10,000 a year trading threshold there's no cost to use the software no good stuff i'll just throw a couple numbers out there you know just did an iron

case study iron's gotten its you know face beat in a little bit so far this year using our tools you'd be up 109 percent um gold etf also hasn't had had a great year you'd be up 33% this year so you know there there are by using tools that are completely unemotional and are acting out your particular will but doing it had a hey much much a better clip than you can manually the the numbers just start to stack up um so go to our site take a look take a look around go to go to case studies take a look at those case studies whether it's Bitcoin Ethereum, Solana, or QQ, spy, and Nvidia, you're going to see numbers that tell you the story. And at the same time, give you an opportunity to interact with our folks and see how easy it is to use.

Yeah, seeing is believing our most common response from, you know, everyone is, holy smokes, this is exciting. Like John Deaton would reach out right when he was in the carpool line and say, I was picking up my daughter and trades were going off. I was making money on these. It's a very eye-opening experience if you've never seen it happen before. And when you understand that you have total control over it, you can turn it off whenever you want, you can turn it on whenever you want. We are a software license provider. So we are licensing the software for you to use.

And you can use it to whatever purposes and ends you want to. And we want to show you how robust that spectrum of use cases is. Andrew, anything you'd like to say as our host? I will add that our show last week associated with the cold card thing was pretty extraordinary. And bitwise, I asked them to really go through. There's 19 different levels of checks associated with security and risk. If you put your Bitcoin into like their ETF or any. And then insurance underneath it.

It is, I'm telling you, the inflows into Bitcoin ETFs over the past week have been meaningfully boosted. by people moving their money out of cold storage into James said one little thing that was quiet and very quick, but people that aren't us are associating the cold card hack with a Bitcoin hack. Of course. So move my stuff over there or I don't want to touch it. So two things for that. Like the fact that Bitcoin didn't crater to 47 inside of two days, that's something that is meaningful. And at the same time, I think this movement is going to continue.

I think maxis are so lost in the noise that they don't realize that while they were fighting for BIP 110 and being childish, the fork they should have been paying attention to is self-custody to custody. And they've lost that. So they may have won the battle of BIP 110 fork, but they lost the Wall Street fork. It's a battle that never needed to happen. That's what I mean. It's so stupid. Nothing happened.

Two blocks for mine. Somebody's forked themselves. Well, the fork is now, custody Bitcoin will be 85% and growing very soon. I say to those people, and I'm sure they're wonderful and had a great, but you've forked. Yeah. By the way, so frankly, can you divulge if Arch has been targeted by hackers, does your security hold up, guys? Arch can't be hacked. Yeah, we don't come.

custody funds holding the assets. All we're doing is giving you software that works with your exchange. So if you keep your money on Gemini, if you keep it on Coinbase, if you keep it on tasty trade, if you keep it on, you know, soon some additional trad-fi exchanges like e-trade are coming to the table. Those are the security folks. Those are the people holding your money. We do not custody funds. All we're doing is giving you a tool that can be applied to these markets.

I'm in custody of your phones, guys, send them over to me. I have all of my dice from playing Robotech and Dungeons and Dragons in the 80s. I save them. I have 64-sided dice. You're saving. My entropy is so good right now. I don't feel it rising as the show goes on. I think you should be a character in Fortnite that carries around a LaCroix bottle,

and that would be that's your law. A Detroit Cannon. That's a huge sponsorship deal. And you know what? They still haven't called. It still hasn't called. I'm going to fire my whole sales team. I'm going to be doing outreach daily.

Guys, sign up for Archpublic because unless you hate money. Right. If you use that, I trademarked it. my royalty. Temple Moose. Nasty. Nasty. Natural flavors. Those are the two words to research.

Nasty. Somebody threw, somebody threw some flavor into this can. Yeah. In the other room. I'm sure it's completely organic, too. I'm sure it's really good. Orgasmic. The regular before is orgasmic.

We are, we have D. D-Rail. Bye. Don't forget to stay so we can upload your clips. I think you got a lot of clips. Oh, there's no outro video set. Oh, everybody's fine.

I was trying to end it. I couldn't. Now I'm going to end on you. Ready? Here comes. Orgasmic. Bye. Let's go.