The Wolf Of All Streets - Bitcoin TESTS $80K as Wall Street Turns More Bullish

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Bitcoin breaks through $80K as BlackRock says the macro case for BTC is getting stronger, while Nvidia’s blowout earnings add fuel to the broader risk rally. We also cover the SEC reviving crypto custody rules, StarkWare’s first quantum-resistant Bitcoin transaction, and Robinhood Chain’s surge in tokenized stock activity. Plus, Tushar Jain joins to discuss Hyperliquid, Zcash’s move, and the latest Multicoin thesis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. Bitcoin tested 100. What did I say?

A hundred? I did that again. I did that almost yesterday. Bitcoin tests 80K as Wall Street turns more bullish. I was live when I did that. Yeah, $80,000. That was me doing a Freudian slip saying Bitcoin's going to 100. We have Wall Street turning more bullish here, though, and a great interview with one

two-shar Jane from Multicoin. Let's go. That was bad. My sound is glitching. I did that. it was either yesterday or the day before that I literally caught myself saying Bitcoin test up, and then I went to 80K, and I didn't catch it that fast this time. And now the Algo is going to hate me because I didn't say the right thing at the beginning.

And it is, well, it is. Good morning, everybody. And welcome to Chateau Le Mielkelle here in Austria. It's where I'm off the rails today. So we're doing something a little different today. I've got me, myself, and myself. And then yesterday I recorded in the evening an interview with Tushar Jane, the founder of multi-coin capital, obviously one of the big Zcash and Hyperliquid and Solana investments. And they were obviously one of the first money into Solana and then have been wildly supportive of Zcash and hyperliquid.

So I'm going to show you that in a little while. But first I'm going to lick my wounds from that horrid butchering of an intro and tell you about my amazing. sponsoring le cuir i'm in france not austria because i'm here with my lequeur which is again we have three cases of it so you're going to be hearing about popple mousse again it's delicious uh it's grapefruit in french i did know that for those of you who didn't know that i knew that um you're going to taste imagine if i had actual sponsors that paid me actual money that'll be awesome what do you mean or Croy is not a sponsor. So first of all, let's talk about Bitcoin and it's amazing price.

Okay? We got Bitcoin playing a little game of Adjust the Tip with 80K. Show you a chart here. But most importantly, look at the 50 MA on the weekly. I probably showed you this yesterday. The good thing is, I don't remember yesterday. So you can ignore it. It's right there.

I mean, look at it. Right? So that was at 81-173. That's the weekly. This is kind of the line to break if you're not, you know, maybe 80, 800. But let's go down to the daily, because I think that we are ripe

for a little retracement, and I want to see it. You know, like, well, maybe one of these and these, and it goes up, you know? And then you got a guy, and he's, oh, my, the legs came weird. I was going to make a guy surfing. Didn't work.

Not doing good today. Look, that went back to the weekly chart, just as I planned. And you take a look, right? massively overbought here on RSI, clearly putting in some bearish divergence, go down the 12-hour higher highs on price, lower highs on that. I think we should reset. I would just love to see us come down, test the low 70s, drop 10%, people freak out.

Wow, you guys want to know what else I'm butchering? It's supposed to look like that. John, we came very prepared today. So I'll tell you what happened is we're trying to make it so we can get like a ticker and stuff and the stream yard can't do that. So we spent the whole morning trying to like figure out how to, of download things from the internets, and then I just didn't get ready. I can lie to you guys.

But so listen, I want to address something that I've been seeing a lot around the crypto Twitter. So first of all, robot fail videos, but we'll get into that in a minute. But something I saw this morning, and it kind of like made me giggle, right? So it's this tweet right here. Nothing against the person who shared it. I don't know him. clock is running out for the four-year cycle bros, right? And it shows this shallowest bear market.

It shows you this chart where clearly like every bear market was exactly the same. And this one like just goes up for a second. Right. And so obviously like the four-year cyclers were wrong. So first, let me say this. I was a four-year cycle isn't real anymore person. And I did this crazy thing that you guys are not going to believe. I said, yeah, I was probably wrong and admitted that it looks like a four-year cycle now. I know it's crazy for somebody to, like, go on a show or on Twitter and say, hey, I had an opinion and the data changed. So, my opinion has changed. I do that. Right?

So listen, right now, assuming we continue to go up, this looks like the four-year cycle ended up being intact. There were a lot of things about the previous cycle that did not look the same that I've pointed out. The ETF, we got like, you know, Bitcoin all-time highway too early. All-coins didn't really move. That was my case. But listen, here's sitting through a languishing summer, I think it looks a lot. like the cycle. So people like, what I'm trying to address is the dunking, the endless dunking that we see. So like he's dunking on everybody, Ben Cowen being one of the people, which I want to

address, like, dunking on him for thinking that the four-year cycle is no longer a thing just because of this, right? So I would make this argument, right? Look, you know, that first one was 85% drawdown, 84% drawdown, 76% drawdown, 53% drawdown. Well, if we didn't get the upside, right? I would love to see the chart. I just don't have the numbers. But, like, you know, we went up like multiple X's of the previous all-time high each cycle, right? You know, like one all-time high was whatever. Then the next one was 20. The next one was a 3.5x. And then the next one was 1-26, not even a 2x. So if we didn't even get 2x to the upside, if the cycle's intact, why would we get 85% or 75% again on the downside? It makes no sense. Right? So like having muted, volatislisies. as the asset class matures is not a surprise. So rationally, you can't say like a 53% drawdown can't be a bare market because it's not as bad as the previous ones. Because then you have to be intellectually honest about the upside. But more importantly, like, there's plenty of times here where these lines diverge from one another.

Right. Like the dumbest thing here is that this is once again like dunking, you know, I celebrate, excuse me, spiking the ball at the one yard line. You're running through and your Don, you know, and your, what was his name? Don Beebe comes running and slaps the ball out, Cowboys' Bills. Dude, you can't celebrate too early. Like, it's only August. What if this just goes back down, you know?

And so I've seen a lot of people, like, over this cycle, dunking on Ben Cowan, who was like the most right person we've had. And who openly says, I'll eventually be wrong. And who openly says we should be buying. down here at the lows and Bitcoin could go up to 82 what it did and people freaked out again. Like, guys, if you have the balls to come out and share your opinion with people, eventually you're going to be wrong. I'm wrong all the time.

Ask my wife about everything. Right? I'm wrong all the time. So, like, I don't know. Leon Lett was the guy. Just the young man. Cowboys. Holding the ball.

A little guy. He comes through and slaps it out. But, you know, like Ben's been right. Leave that guy alone. Like, the thing is, when you have the trend generally right, you shouldn't get dunked on when, like, you don't call the exact bottom. Nobody calls the exact bottom and top. And even if they do, they don't the next time. It's just life.

It's just life. So do I think the four-year cycle's intact? I don't know. But I know that it looks a hell of a lot like it at this point and that I was super wrong about that before. But I also said, hey, you know, right now, I. I think that the four-year cycle doesn't look like a four-year cycle, but I can be wrong. So I don't know, man. Maybe just be okay with being wrong every once a while.

That's the thing. By the way, there was this robot video that I wanted to show you guys the other day, and it didn't work. So now you're going to watch it. Oh, God. I have a robot influencer now. Guys, did you? It was like 12 pounds. He lifted it up, and then if he hadn't have tripped over the thing, he would have murdered the judges.

Did you see that? The bar fell in front of me, tripped over it. I don't know why I showed that. Like the people who are like, Too Char, they're going to watch us and be like, why did I go on this show? Why did I agree to this in advance? So, listen, I'm going to come back with a bit more news at the end, but I do want to share the two-char interview because it's really, really, really good. So let's do that right now. I have you on here.

I'm shocked we haven't done this in the past. Hey, Scott. Good to see you. Thanks for having me. No, thanks for waking up early to do this. So listen, I like to dive, I think, a bit into the multi-coin thesis. Obviously, you know, you guys were somewhat famous for being a Salana native fund, being the first money in and helping to raise there.

Obviously, that's sort of diversified now into hyperliquid and Zcash maybe beyond. I don't want to speak for you. So what's changed for you and, you know, what's the new focus? Yeah, look, let me actually take you back through the history of how my views on crypto have evolved over the last 10 years. So initially I saw Bitcoin in 2013, but what really got me excited about crypto was when I saw Ethereum in 2016, and I saw the first ICOs. I saw NOSIS, then I saw Auger, and that to me was the future of capital formation. This is the internet-native way to coordinate economic activity, and that's what convinced me that we needed to start multi-coin.

One of our first big bets at multi-coin was actually a huge failure for us. So in 2017, I went to DevConn in Cancun. And I remember going to watch Vatollic's talk about scaling. And it was clear that Ethereum did not have a plan for scaling. And then about a month later, Cryptokitty's launched, if you remember that, NFT, and it brought the network to its needs. You know, transaction fees, like through the roof, you couldn't land a transaction. And our first big thesis that was somewhat contrarian, perhaps, in the crypto space, was that

high-performance blockchains would be necessary. You have to remember, this is the time when the block wars are still going on, right? It's the big blockers and the small blockers, and it's like a big blockers. and it's like a Bitcoin Civil War happening. So the high-performance question was very non-consensus. So let's get to that investment that we made. The first big investment we made with that thesis

was a network called EOS. Little thing called E-S. We published a couple of reports on it. We were pretty bullish. It was, you know, credible engineering team led by Dan Larimer, who had built two blockchains before. They had $4 billion. that they had raised, which we thought was going to be used to further the network.

Clearly, like, that didn't work out. They kind of just took the money and went away. So we lost a lot of money on that. We're flushing around out there. Oh, yeah. Well, there's no Bitcoin, too, you know, stashed away somewhere. Yeah, well, we as investors, then get to see any of that, or get to see any of that productively deployed.

But later that year, we invested in Solana Seabrand. And that was because we understood that the thesis was not invalidated. It was just an idiosyncratic execution failure that led to the first investment in EOS, not working out. And so we doubled down on the thesis despite losing money, and we led Slana seed around. We also did a number of other investments in high-performance blockchains. We invested in NIR and Algaran and a few others pretty early on as well. So that was that evolution. And now the evolution that we have seen is over the past few years,

it's become clear that blockchains are really optimized for trading payments and financial use cases and not for this generic kind of web three decentralized social or gaming or decentralized cloud type use cases. And so our thesis has narrowed significantly due to that information from the market. Does that mean you came into that thesis and you basically accept that it is what it is and allocate directly in that direction? I mean, that would explain hyperliquid. Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. I view our job is to be analysts. It's to observe the market. It's to understand what is happening. Our job is not to try and tell the market what it should do. So when we see a trend like this happening where people want to trade derivatives on hyperliquid, then we should be there. And I also don't really believe in diversifying. for the sake of diversifying.

It's like, why do you have money in your 10th best idea? You should really only have money in, you know, maybe your top two, three ideas and be really close to them as a professional investor. So that those two things have been driving a lot of our portfolio construction recently. Okay, so why hyperliquid specifically then when it comes to that thesis?

Because obviously you can place a lot of bets on human speculation in crypto? Yeah, well, hyperliquids working, right? They have the user experience that traders want. They have loyalty amongst their users at a level that very few other platforms do, and they're growing. And there are huge returns to scale to an exchange

because who wants to trade on like the 10th most liquid exchange. No one does, right? People want to go where all the volume is. And hyperliquid is quickly gaining market share against centralized exchanges, which I think is the real competition for them. They already dominate decentralized derivatives exchanges. And one thing I have learned is you make the most money by letting the trend compound and play out. It's trying to time it, super short term, like that, at least for me, it doesn't work. You know, I don't know how to do that reliably. But getting the thesis right, betting on the market leader and letting it compound

is, I think, a far higher probability of success. Okay, well, you were also then, I would say, to be fair, very early to the emerging privacy thesis, right? And you were talking about it very early, the time when, you know, Bology really started talking about it and the privacy narrative caught fire. I think it's fair to say last year. And that obviously has accrued to Zcash. Right. So I guess why the privacy narrative, when did you realize that that was going to be one of those few narratives that you were, that was really worth leading into and allocating to, and why Zcash specifically? So let me give you a couple of answers

to that. And actually, once again, I'll dig back into history and tell you, I was a big Zcash bear for many years. We even publish a report, you know, talking about how privacy wouldn't be the driving feature that drove adoption. This was back in like 2018, 2019. We were short Zeke back then against Bitcoin, which actually did work out nicely for us. And last year, I decided to revisit that thesis because of a few things. the first thing that I saw was this dilution of the cypherpunk ethos that got the industry started right implying that BlackRock UTFs are not the original vision of Stoci Nakamoto I dare you or you know distributing more stable coins around the world it's like you know this Satoshi didn't create blockchain so we could more efficiently distribute USD

to people around the world. That was not the original vision. But if you take a step back and think about what is the most core value for Bitcoin and for the early cypherpunks, and it's censorship resistance. Decentralization is a means to censorship resistance. It's a means of, hey, I can own something

that no one can forcibly take away from me and no one can stop me from spending it or using it how I wish. And Bitcoin started losing that. Bitcoin started losing that because of its lack of privacy. Miners can censor transactions. If you are on a list somewhere, miners within a certain jurisdiction can choose to just censor your transactions.

Miners within a certain jurisdiction can choose to not build on blocks that include censored transactions and thereby have, forks in the chain. And if you have, you know, the majority of hash power on the censored fork, well, that's the canonical fork. And so privacy is actually a core attribute of censorship resistance. You cannot have true censorship resistance without privacy. And what I saw was a bunch of early bitcoinsers coming to that realization, because they saw, you know, the corporate capture of Bitcoin. They saw Michael Saylor owning so much of the supply. They saw BlackRock owning so much of the supply.

The culture of Bitcoin shifted from, you know, this libertarian cyphor punk ethos to, I hope the U.S. government pumps my bags. And that really turned a lot of people off, and I saw them turning to Zcash. But we didn't put on a position immediately because it's easy to manufacture, kind of a flash in the pan type. interest in something like this. And I've seen this happen before and I'm cautious because, you know, we manage quite a bit of money and, you know, I don't want to be anyone's exit liquidity. I thought that was, honestly, that was my gut reaction to the first time and maybe it's PTSD of previous cycles is when you see a whole bunch of people talking about a thing

all of a sudden with huge followings given this was a different group. Right. This wasn't a bunch of YouTube influencers when you're talking about Barry Silbert and the WinkleVos twins and stuff as a very, you know, a much different group. But my reaction was a whole bunch of people like got in a room maybe and just decided that we're going to start talking about this thing, right? It's just how you like view things in crypto at first. I didn't realize that you guys weren't kind of in that first wave. Now, we were paying attention to it, but I didn't want to be anyone's exit liquidity.

So we didn't buy it. Then this year in February, we put on a big position in Z-Cash because what I saw was was a significant drawdown, right? This was more than a 50% drawdown from its recent highs. And when I called all those people who were excited about it, they remained excited. And what that really reminded me of

was the early days of Bitcoin when it was not a financial asset, it was a philosophical or political asset. People owned it because of what they believed, not just because they thought number was going go up. And now I feel like Bitcoin has become this asset that people own because they want number go up. And Zcash is an asset that people own because they believe in the fundamental values there. And that to me is just like a huge shift. And then this is compounded by two other big trends. One is AI-driven surveillance.

the pseudo-inanimity of blockchains was fairly adequate for a while. It was just too difficult to track things. Sure, if you were chain analysis or something and a government agency, you could devote enough resources. But now with these AI data analysis tools, like if you send me a payment, Scott, on a transparent network, I can just drop that into an agent and say, tell me everything he has ever done.

and you know what? Help me find anything questionable that he's done that I could use against him. And I can just do that as a guy. I don't need any resources. I just need a bot that can do that for me. And it's become so easy. And we experience this at Multi-Coin

because whenever we move any assets around, you see it on Twitter of like, Multi-coin is selling this or is unstaking this or what are they doing? I don't want to be front-run if I'm taking an action. Like privacy is really, really important if you are a large trader. And now the pseudo-enanimity of blockchains is basically gone

because these data surveillance tools and data analysis tools have gotten so easy. Is that more of a statement of the broad need for privacy on blockchain or a specific endorsement of Zcash? Because right, there's all that like Canton has been making that argument, obviously, as the somewhat corporate blockchain where you can do, you know, DTCC settlement and, you know, Citadel obviously doesn't want you to know what they're moving and where they're moving it, right? And neither just NAPD or anyone else. So, but Zcash itself doesn't necessarily fit that exact purpose, right? So is it sort of the broader thesis that people are going to want this privacy? Or is it, you know, specific to that asset? I don't think it's specific just the Zcash. You know, another privacy

port called we're investing in is called Zama, which enables. I know those guys are great, man. I love brand of yeah. Yeah, and that enables privacy on other networks. So I'm talking about privacy more as a thesis than just Zcash. However, I do think you need privacy for your censorship resistant store of value asset. I think that's an absolutely critical component of that, right? You don't want that information to be out there. And then that's the same.

second big trend, also driven by AI, that I think is specifically good for Zcash, is AI-driven wealth inequality is going to lead to more talk globally of wealth taxes. And it's going to, you know, unrealized gains taxes and other types of government taking of people's property. People don't like their property to be taken, right? And so what I expect is there will be businesses in the future that only accept payment or prefer payment in private assets like C-cash. This reminds me of the early days of Bitcoin, right? Like I remember going to talk to really wealthy people around the world in politically unstable nations.

And every single one of those families had a when shit hits the fan plan. what can I get out of the country with? What can I take with me if the political winds blow against me and I'm now persona non-grada in my home country? They all had that plan. And Zcash is an instantiation of that plan. It's that private Swiss bank account in your pocket that no one can take away.

You can memorize some words and you can go anywhere with as much private money as you want. Yeah, I mean, I fundamentally still believe that Bitcoin can be that as well. I do see the capture side as well. But I see both sides of that, but there's not room for another asset. But what it actually reminds me of as you're talking about, you know, I was in nightlife for 20 years. And every business in New York City that I worked with, we all insisted on getting paid in cash.

Right? I mean, every bar I ever worked out, they took cash. Every time I got paid to DJ, we took cash because obviously, you know, like even at the most basic level, nobody wanted to report it all or have to deal with the problem. I mean, people want cash, right? And at the end of the day, if Zcash ends up being just the digital version of private cash, to me, that's a very compelling argument. Yeah, absolutely.

That's exactly it. And I think privacy also matters for nation-state level actors who may want to use these assets like Zcash or Bitcoin as reserves, as, you know, Forex reserves, as dollar hegemony decreases. and we enter a multipolar world, which is a century-long trend here that seems to be playing out, you're not going to want to have an asset that could be censored.

More than half the hash powers in the United States, then if you are a geopolitical adversary of the United States, are you going to really want to use Bitcoin as your reserve when the U.S.-based liners could censor your transactions and effectively freeze your Bitcoin by never letting you put a transaction in. So I think privacy is critically important for that subset of use cases too. So I had Avi Feldman from 1000X on the other day, and we were talking about the Zcash

ETF launching, which I think we can get to in a second. He said something, and I would love your take on it. He said that Monero is actually used for privacy and Zcash is used to invest in privacy. That was his take on it, that the people who are really trying to preserve their privacy are using Manero, which is why it's delisted and that Zcash is more for the narrative. Look, I don't think this Zcash ETF is like a true instantiation of the thesis or the ethos. That is for people who want to invest in number go up. That is not for like the politically, philosophically aligned set of people.

You're not buying a, nobody believes you're buying an ETF to maintain your privacy. Right. It's an investment. Yeah. So like we don't own any of this. the ETF, I would urge people to buy spot and shield it. Don't use an ETF or another centralized product. Buy spot, shield it. That is the aligned way to go about it. I think the Monaro comparison is interesting, but Monero doesn't provide the same level of privacy guarantees that

Zcash does, because Monero uses ring signatures, which is a type of obfuscation of privacy, whereas V-Cash uses zero-knowledge proofs. So the information on Zcash is just not even out there. It is not visible to the public. With Monaro, you're trying to hide amongst a bunch of fake transactions. I believe that as AI-powered data analysis tools get more powerful, it puts that privacy model more at risk, and that is problematic. And then the second thing is, like, store a value asset,

have a very significant network effect. There's a reason why the biggest store value assets like gold in the world don't really have that much competition. Silver is a tiny comparison to gold, and there's no other precious metal comes close. And the same thing will apply to these private digital store of value assets. I think it's a winner-takes-al type of market. And so you just want to be in the market leader.

and Zcash has almost double the market cap of Minero has way more momentum, way more people behind it. And I don't see how Minero comes back from behind here. Yeah, we were actually going to talk when the Ironwood update happened. I think I was on vacation or something. Our teams were trying to coordinate that. Can you break that down for me?

Because obviously, I mean, everybody knows. And May, many say Fudd, I don't know if there was just news that, you know, that there could have been a theoretical exploit that could have maybe minted, you know, unlimited tokens, and that's now been solved for with Ironwood. Forgive my ignorance on it. When it's been fixed, does it mean that it can't happen anymore, or does it mean that it

couldn't have happened anymore in the past? It means both. So here's what happened is in early June, the Zcash core dev team announced that they had patched a bug that they found using, I believe they used Mythos, like the Klaug Mythos model, to find this bug. And they patched it immediately. And that bug could have allowed for an infinite mint of Zcash within the orchard pool, not at the base layer, but within the pool.

Then the market kind of freaked out. And a lot of stop losses were run. There was a lot of leverage in the thing. and you know how reflexive crypto can be. So people freaked out. We actually looked at the facts of the matter, and we bought more after that. Because what we saw was a bug was patched.

There was absolutely no evidence that that bug was exploited. There was no unusual behavior of exiting from the pool. There was like no real sign that the bug was exploited. But out of an abundance of caution, what the Zcash dev team did is they froze that pool. They created a new pool called Ironwood. Ironwood is formally verified. So what that means is it is mathematically proven to not have this class of infinite mint bugs. So that's a really powerful safeguard against this bug ever happening again.

happening again in the future. And because the old orchard pool is deprecated and almost completely drained, what we know is the orchard pool was not exploited, so it couldn't have happened in the past. And we know that the new ironwood pool is immune to this class of bugs because it's been formally verified and mathematically proven that it cannot have this type of bug. So I think the answer is both. And so, you know, our buys in that period of are looking pretty good right now. Oh, yeah, that was such a tip. I didn't participate in it.

I mean, my need your reaction just because, you know, I mean, crypto and skeptic was kind of the GTA, ah shit. Here we go again. You know, because we've just seen these kind of stories so many times, and they're increasing so rapidly that I think it was hard not to at the moment say this is something you should actually pay attention to, right? Without saying, hey, I don't think it was fair of anyone to say million, you know, billions of tokens were minted.

but the very nature of Zcash being private, and this kind of exploit sort of threaded this perfect fear needle, I think, for people who've been here a while. Yeah, I can understand why people who are not as close to the tech or, you know, didn't want to, like, pause and think about it would react the way that they did. But generally as an investor, I think reacting in the moment is... Never good.

It's never a great idea. Like you're going to be emotional when you react in the moment. You're not necessarily making the most rational decision. And so I like making slow decisions. I want to absorb the information. I want to sit with it. I want to think about it. I want to make sure that I'm not emotionally reacting.

And then I want to decide. And that's what we did here. It's over 3x from those lows, right? I mean, we're talking about in a matter of months. So I don't know, you know, what the given price is at any given moment, but it was recently testing effectively all-time high. certainly cycle highs, and it was down in the 200s when that happened. So generational buying opportunity, as often is the case with these situations.

Yes, absolutely. And that comes from understanding what actually happened and how that differs from the market perception of what happened. That makes perfect sense. So you've been here for many cycles, as you said, from the very beginning. you know, we sort of had this impulsive move to the upside from Bitcoin. A lot of all coins followed Zcash, I would say, even outperformed massively. As I said, do you think that we can start thinking about another cycle, more upside, you know, calling the bottom?

Listen, I was one of the ones who was kind of a big proponent of the idea that the bottom was likely, and, you know, 60 was probably the area. but that we'd be six to nine months of really boring and time-based capitulation. And so that's sort of playing out now, but it takes a lot to convince people to get back in. Look, I think your view was questioned at the time. And this is how these cycles play out. You have euphoria, then you have the crash. And when people are still feeling angry and feeling strong emotions, you know, that you haven't, like, gotten to the bottom yet.

to me, what I look for are signs of apathy. And I actually have one very useful heuristic that's worked for me, cycle after cycle. Bottoms seem to happen when bad news no longer pushes the price down. And tops tend to happen when good news no longer pushes the price up. And what we saw was two big pieces of bad news in the past month. we saw the delay of clarity and the probability of clarity passing decrease and we saw the biggest accumulator of Bitcoin in Microstrategy start to sell their stash and they sold billions of dollars worth and

Bitcoin went up it didn't go down and that to me was the sign I was like okay these are two bad pieces of news and the price is not going down that means that we're probably close for the bottom, and we just had months of apathy. It wasn't that people were mad anymore, they just didn't care, which means that they were gone, right? And so I do think that this recent move is sustainable. I think that this is a regime change in the crypto market. And look, will there be pullback? Sure, there are always pullbacks.

This is most volatile asset class in the world. So nothing's ever a straight line. but I think everything just changed. Yeah, it's funny. You know, the 21, 22 cycle was so unique. And people, I think, benchmark everything to that now, but it was this sort of vertical skyscraper collapse after Luna, right? I mean, Luna went, then three hours capital went,

then all of CIFI went, and it culminated in FTX. It was kind of like a controlled demolition of a vertical building. This time, it was just, as you said, kind of the quiet apathy. But I think that that's actually the trademark of most cycles and bearers. markets. But it's not, I mean, with Bitbex closing, Bitmark's gone, sailor selling, a Sendex is gone, storage, movement, I mean, literally bankruptcies, coins, you know, like a new blockchain that you can't remember existed as being exploited every other day. I think we had all those things happening. They just weren't an S-AF moment.

Yeah, and look, we had a bunch of investors pivoting and saying, you know, I want to invest in AI or other things or, you know, I don't want to focus on crypto anymore. That was another big sign. So we had all of the, we had all the signs. In hindsight, it was very obvious. Yeah, I think so too. I think that there's still people waiting for 40,000 and they're going to be buying it 100. I mean, I could be wrong, but I think all of the, and if it's just starting, I think that all of your thesis will play out to many multiples over the next couple of years, right?

I mean, this is not just going to be a Bitcoin rally if things get going. I agree with that. And look, the big thing that happened in the last week that I think really drove this rally was the Treasury operations, where the Treasury is going to buy long-dated bonds and sell bills. And while that's not technically defined as QE, it is another kind of easing, very clearly. And I would recommend everyone is listening read Stan Drucken-Miller's op-ed. in the Wall Street Journal, which slams this action, and actually explains it pretty eloquently.

I do also love that Stan came out and was like, of course I used AI to use it. Like I also use calculators to do all my math. Like, my name is on it. I stand behind it. What's your problem? And he's so right. But I still recommend everyone should read it

because I think that is the bull case for crypto here is exactly what he's talking about. It's the fact that our political parties are not going to shrink the deficit. That's not going to happen. Neither the left nor the right has the appetite to do that. The debt is going to continue to skyrocket. The fact that hypersalcalers are borrowing so much money

is actually raising the cost of borrowing for the U.S. government. It's raising the cost of money for the whole economy, which means the debt continues to spiral even more. because of that increase in borrowing costs, and that makes crypto even more attractive. So I think what we have seen is a fundamental regime shift, and I'm excited for the next cycle. All right, man.

Well, I appreciate your time. I'm glad that we finally got to do this. We'll have to do this. And have an even more longer form conversation, hopefully, in the future, man. But have a great day, and I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Scott. This was a lot of fun.

All right, man. Talk to you soon. Did you guys tell that that wasn't live? The background was different, and I glitched again, tried to bring myself on. Today is not my day. I'm going to pack it in. Hope you guys had a wonderful one. We'll be back tomorrow.

We'll review the whole week. Hopefully we'll have a guest. I literally don't even know. One of those weeks. I'll see you guys. Tomorrow. Later. Goodbye.

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