The Wolf Of All Streets - Black Monday or Bitcoin Bottom? Assets Rally | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

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Black Monday to those who celebrate and welcome to Crypto Town Hall every weekday, 10, 15 AM Eastern Standard Time here on X. It was supposed to be Black Monday as Jim Cramer, of course, was calling for a 20 to 25% potential drop like we saw back in 1987. So of course, we're seeing a rally here on Monday morning, whether that is a bear market rally, short covering, or a temporary period of risk on is worth discussing. Obviously, the S&P closed last week at 5072, opened today down at 4952, went as low as 4830 in trading,

now trading back up at 5166. Nasdaq also closing the gap, trading back up into midday on Friday. Of course, Bitcoin, massive bounce, trading back over 80,000 after hitting almost the March 2024 all-time high of 74,000 this morning, depending on which exchange you look at. We're getting the opposite of a black Monday at the moment. We're getting a nice big green Monday to start, but I think we all know that the day ain't over. Interestingly, 10-year treasuries, which many have pointed to the goal of the tariffs and Trump and Basant was to get interest rates way down. Well, they're currently, well, they just dropped as I was watching this from 4.17 to 4.13, but currently trading back to

before the tariffs were even announced. So rates skyrocketing once again today off the lows around 3.8, 3.85, somewhere around there, obviously also depending on where you're looking. What a crazy day, what a crazy Monday morning for us all to show up to. Anyone who would like to take a shot at unpacking the market and price action today, feel free. Do you think that this is short covering a real rally? Do you think this will fade?

Where do you think we're going here? Oh, and I think the most important news, excuse me, is that Hassett, who is Trump's one of the economists on the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, one of Trump's closest advisors, just said now, and that's probably why we got a bit of a rally, that Trump is considering a 90 day tariff pause for all countries except China. So it looks like Trump may have blinked. What the hell's going on here? Anybody?

Oh, I didn't even see you there, Carrie Ann. How are you? Hey, what's up? I don't think we've had you on here in a while. It's been a while. Yeah. Thanks for having me back. You know, I never like we have these endless glitches on X where half the people who are

speakers show as listeners and I never even know who's here. I mean, listen, I know that you're not like probably closely tracking markets, but I mean, what do you make of all of this absolute insanity right now? Yeah, I mean, it is, it is crazy. I think a big part of what we're seeing in the markets is just we have a new administration that's coming in. And, you know, we're all following the news on tariffs and that's causing a lot of economic uncertainty at a macro level. And, you know, what Donald Trump is doing is, is quite different than what we've seen previous administrations do. So it's creating a bit of a shakeup. And that uncertainty is going to create risk for investors. When investors feel like they're in a period of facing additional risk, a lot of times they'll start cashing out of risk-based assets. And crypto is a lot of times considered that by many different

types of investors. And then on top of that, cryptocurrency is the most liquid market in the world because these markets trade 24-7. So if an investor needs to get liquid, it's very, very easy to do that. You can do that at night. You can do that over the weekend. So I'm still very, long bullish Bitcoin as you guys probably know and expect. It's really hard to pinpoint like exactly I mean this

is why this is the price of Bitcoin today. The price is not always rational but the the volatility that we're seeing in the Bitcoin price I know we're up a little bit today from the past couple of days, but there has been a bit of a drawdown over the past several weeks. This is very normal volatility for Bitcoin. We've had up to 70% drawdowns in different cycles. So I don't think these fluctuations that we're seeing are necessarily,

we can pinpoint them to any specific thing that's happened. I do still think the price of Bitcoin is very undervalued. If you look at valuation models, it still has the price of Bitcoin anywhere from 120 to 250 by the end of this year. So I still think this is going to be a really incredible blowout year for Bitcoin, mostly because of what's happening in Washington and these policies that are being driven. Trump has hardly gotten to start executing on his Bitcoin policies. We do have the executive order on digital assets. We do have the strategic Bitcoin stockpile. But there's a lot of things that are still underway that haven't been put in effect yet. The US government hasn't started buying Bitcoin, for example. So I still think it's really, really early. I think Bitcoin is undervalued.

And I think the fluctuations that you're seeing are quite normal. And it has a lot more to do with happening at the macro level than what's happening in the Bitcoin or crypto markets specifically. I 100% agree with that. It's surreal when you zoom out and stop paying attention to tariffs and obviously economic policy and all of the global mayhem and look at where we are as far as policy,

which is obviously what you work on every single day in Washington fighting for these things. I mean, we've basically gotten a delivery on every promise and more. Right. I mean, every single person that's been instilled into a position of power is effectively a Bitcoiner. We have an executive order on the reserve. We have the SEC reversing tactic on every single enforcement action and putting together task force. We've gotten every single thing we've wanted. I think that just leaves a lot of people disappointed that the price is where it is.

But to your point, that means the value is much higher. A lot of opportunity. A lot of opportunity. I'm still buying. As I said, I was on my Macro Monday show this morning and I like to view myself with a great counter indicator because I'm very unemotional about markets. And when I do find those moments where I get emotional, like last night, I was like, I'm going to sell a bunch of stock at the open, fuck this, Black Monday. And then literally the market opened while I was there. And I

was like, I could sell point base at 140 here, take a little bit, whatever, I'm still in profit. And instead I bought Bitcoin. I counter traded myself myself. I'm like, I'm not gonna sell anything, I'm gonna buy Bitcoin. That's the hardest thing I can do here. It's a huge thing. Yeah, exactly. So that's what I did. Maybe I'll regret not selling some things,

but I'm certainly buying Bitcoin. Carlo, go ahead. Good morning, Scott. Yeah, Perrienne is talking my book for sure. I cannot disagree with anything she's saying. I've been talking for weeks, if not months now, about patients. We're getting everything we hoped for

from this administration with respect to re-regulation. I don't think we can look for deregulation. We're gonna have regulation. We're gonna have anti-fraud measures still exist, but we're getting re-regulation of the sector. We're getting regulatory clarity. We just got the SEC guidance report on stable coins and that the qualified stable coins

that they look at are not securities. What's happening right now, and Scott, you and I have talked about this, is I think a strategic move by Trump to accelerate things and to get this economy in a better position for his retention of his party in the House and Senate. And he's doing this through these tariffs. It's a blunt instrument. I think the talking point is that this is going to bring back jobs to the United States and it's going to rebalance trade. Obviously, those are very complex long-term things that are in the pipeline.

I'm questioning what kind of jobs are going to come back and who's going to do those jobs. The tech bros have a lot of influence in Washington right now. They went to the inauguration. They definitely have a clear agenda here on what they want to see happen. We have a liquidity cycle that has worked for a long time, Scott, but we're getting to the point here where if we're truly interested in rebalancing trade, then the expense of that may be that the dollar may no longer be the reserve currency as we understand it, because in order for this trade imbalance to continue,

we have to have the ability for the dollar to be a very liquid asset that people can use to accumulate debt. And if we're trying to get away from that trade imbalance, the curious question that I have is, what happens to that dollar dynamic going forward? Been thinking a lot about that lately. I know Simon just jumped in

and I know he's got views on this. What's crazy is that you had the BlackRock Annual Letter last week and Larry Fink pointing to that exact idea said Bitcoin could become the global reserve currency as the dollar starts to fade, which coming from the CEO of the world's largest asset manager is absolutely just astounding. Tom, go ahead. Yeah. Good morning, everyone. Let me know if you can't hear me.

I'm in the car here. Good morning. You're good. Cool. So I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. I can't believe the market is taking this seriously. There's been explicit direct discussions from folks who are architecting this policy that their strategy is to escalate, to de-escalate.

Besant went on Scott, or Tucker Carlson podcast the other day, and literally said that. And that strategy is what won US use in the Cold War to, through the military, strategically escalate and then it forced the Soviets to escalate and we had to de-escalate because they went bankrupt. So do you think China can withstand the tariffs worse than the US economy can? Our exports to China are 0.5% of our GDP. China's exports to the US are 15% of their GDP. And it's a very similar number with a number of these countries.

US is 25% plus of worldwide consumption. These are going to be much, much lower than are actually stated in this grand opening salvo. We all know Trump literally wrote a book on this, right? Go to the end extreme and then come back to some reasonable level. But the broader point is that tariffs are part of a bigger plan to get some level of revenue to the US, get more fair trade imbalances. And he's going to use that to say, okay, we made this much money here, guess what?

We can incentivize and reduce the US tax base, particularly on individuals who have a higher propensity to consume driving consumption. So all of these things are going towards what Besson's core objective is when he came into the White House and he came, he's a billionaire, he doesn't need to be in the White House. He did this because he wants to reduce the deficit. So you reduce the deficit by increasing growth,

reducing spending and lowering the rate on our 10 year yield, which is a longer term plan. But all those things don't mean higher tariffs across the board in perpetuity and restructuring the global world order. I don't think that's the end goal here. Yeah. Tom, I think that you're correct about the plan.

I think that the problem, which is often a problem in politics, is the messaging, right? You have Basant laying that out extremely clearly, but on the flip side, and maybe this is a purposeful good cop, bad cop, but you have Ludnick saying that this is our long term strategy, there won't be negotiation, bring it all home, right? So I think that people just don't necessarily believe it yet. Like they've implicitly said this is not a negotiation. Oh, when I talk and your mic is lifted, it's really bad. But yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think, I think Lutnick's going to out pretty soon. He's gonna be the fall guy as the bad cop. By the way, the biggest,

I think that the biggest catalyst for markets to rage to the upside would be them firing Lutnick. I don't dislike the guy. I'm just saying if they did that, then everybody would think negotiating tactics markets would fly. I like it. Yeah, I really believe that.

Lou, go ahead. I just say that I think the market would go up more if Trump resigned than if they fired Lutnik. And I, you know, as opposed to everybody else, I'm on the other side. I think that this is just destructive. This is not an experiment. This is not complex. It's like we have dandruff and we pour gasoline on our head and lit our head on fire and people

say, well, it's an experiment. We're going to see how it works out. We know how this works out. Terrace has been tried many times before. It's mathematical. This is doing destruction to our economy. Why he's doing destruction to the economy, I do not know. In the long run, this is great for Bitcoin because, you know, the more all society falls, the more powerful Bitcoin becomes because it's the only thing

that people will trust. But and by the way, I also disagree with it. We got everything that we wanted. You know, I think the deregulation, he deregulated everything. So we're just part of stuff that's being deregulated, stop being sued, he get rid of everybody suing everybody. And I think the big thing that people really thought was going to happen was that they would actually buy Bitcoin. That's what people thought when you said Bitcoin reserve. So I personally feel like I've been lied to by the administration, but that's me. Simon?

Yeah, I take the other side to most people as well. I do think it's creative destruction as a larger plan because Trump works for global capital, Trump doesn't work on his own. I don't believe any politician works on their own policies. Their job is to wrap an acceptable narrative on top of an acceptable narrative on top of the people that pay for them to do what they do. And so Trump's backers are Elon Musk, Edelstein, and the bank, the Mellon banking family. I believe that, and if you look at who Elon Musk is backed by, he's mainly backed by Middle East some money. The Federal Reserve System is a debt-based Ponzi scheme. I do believe that this is still a strategy to creatively change the power structure of the world, that America is going to be a regional power.

That's my baseline based upon who everyone's backing. Then you look at who is executing this right now. If you listen to the Tucker Carlson interview again, PR narrative to make you believe that there is a war of economic nutrition between China and America that only America can win. Sorry, he's lying to you quite point blank. America to rebuild its manufacturing base

is a multi-year, if not multi-decade strategy of making everything more expensive because China has people that work seven days a week, 12 hours a day with zero holiday, significantly cheaper in what could only be, days a week, 12 hours a day with zero holiday, significantly cheaper in what could only be many would say is exploitative. To think that those goods could be produced in America at the same price is just complete delusion. The world is still

globalizing. It's only America that's going regional. And so the strategy doesn't make sense. How are tariffs actually charged? They're charged by the importer At points. So if you look at who's gonna actually pay these tariffs It's gonna be American businesses that actually still have to import from China for years ahead And there is no way of changing that because they don't have the margins in order to change that flow without a multi-year multi-decade strategy. So all the narratives around what you know rebuilding the internal manufacturing base just don't match reality at all. And so you know if you are a business and you are a small business and

you can't afford the import tariff, and by the way, the only one that matters is China. Everything else is just a way of changing the flows so that you can't use one country in order to play the tariff game, just like the way that everyone gets away with sanctions and around sanctions. So if the China America tariff, nothing changes with all the other tariffs. So literally, it's the only one that really matters in the end, other than the exception of some of the regional countries around it. But you know, the the cost, if, if you charge a tariff from China, the small businesses won't be able to afford the tariff,

which they will have to pay. And therefore those businesses, the ones that are the large companies, they'll be sat around with the Trump administration negotiating special deals and special packages. And therefore, just like COVID wiped out middle-class businesses and transferred it to large corporations. Does this lie in to you? So then you have to ask why is Bersen lying to you? Because Bersen worked for George Soros. He is a corporate raider. He is a

currency raider. That is their job. Their job was to execute a currency change by manipulating the British pound when the European Union was formed and the euro floated. George Soros is the same person that infamously funds regime changes around the world by creating current colored revolutions. And so percent is of that type of place. Trump's backers are all global financial institutions, where Elon wants he's literally there is a company above his that his parents created called technocracy. His mission has always been to create a technocracy. The jobs are not coming back. The jobs are going to robotics and Elon Musk is going to be powering it with the cheap

energy that Trump is creating for him. The Mellon family know that they're invested in the Middle East and all the money that's coming in to make these investments. And China has a different economic model to the Federal Reserve System. Put all that together. And I please you, you know, if you want to take the short term narrative, just please stop listening to politicians. All they're doing is manipulating to you, lying to you. It's all bullshit. You just got to follow the money. Understand what's actually happening. I just want to talk about Black Monday, dude.

Really looking forward to it. Just kidding. Just kidding. Yeah. But Black Monday, yeah, you know, manipulation is happening right now. Up, down, seesaw, PR country. We've hit peak centralization, a few people in a few rooms. But who was the capital that's actually changed in the world? And that's where it becomes a Bitcoin story. Operation Chokepoint 2.0 was a strategy by the Federal Reserve, the SEC, FDIC, and Global Capital to wipe out the crypto-friendly banks and hand over parts of the industry to BlackRock and other players. The BlackRock has now got all of his bodies into Bitcoin after the SEC approved the Bitcoin ETF for the large financial institutions.

And now, you know, all of the large banks and financial institutions, Larry Fink says the world is changing. Better get you some Bitcoin. We'll custody it for you. You can do it as banks. You can do the custody. We'll do the ETF. Got all of his buddies in and now he's pushing a narrative and BlackRock is somebody that can actually change the world order. He's saying that the dollar is at risk of Bitcoin becoming the world reserve currency. I listen to Larry Fink because Larry Fink can execute. I don't listen to politicians. Everyone, I just want to note that the Fed did make an announcement to do an emergency meeting here at 1030. The meeting was actually a closed door meeting, not an emergency meeting, and it was previously on the schedule they just officially announced it. I know everyone's reporting it, but I don't think it's actually an emergency meeting. And I would be inclined to say, by the way, just to that end, Powell, whenever you think

of Jerome Powell, I obviously think transitory inflation wasn't saying that the Fed is fundamentally broken. But the one thing you can give Powell credit for is that he's been very deliberate and honest about his intentions. He hasn't really lied this whole way. He said exactly what he was going to do and he's done it. And he on Friday spoke and could not have been more clear that he actually views this tariffs in his perception

as likely installationary. And he basically said that it is less reason for us to cut now. So I would also make an argument that Fed cuts don't matter at this point because we're so fiscally driven unless they come with massive QE and fiscal stimulus. I think, you know, but I don't think the Fed cut is going to save us. That's the bottom line of what I'm saying here. I mean, Dan, what do you think? You haven't had an opportunity to speak yet.

Yeah. Morning, fellas. A very vibrant show today. Yeah, it's funny. So my friends know that I'm a pro-Trump guy, and were messaging me, they're like, oh, what about your Bitcoin president, or whatever. What's funny for me is I built a little tool that tracks every time Bitcoin's down by 10% in a day. It sounds a little low, because my friend was like,

oh, I'd love to have that. I started in August. it's fired four times already since last August. So this is fairly common. I did like the meme that's like the Panic-er, you know, the Virgin Panic-er versus the Chad, see what happens. I don't know, we're just, I don't know.

When all this went down, I was like, nah, see what happens, sure it's fine, right? I'm annoyed only because I put a bid in and my bid didn't get taken, looks like it won't get taken now. But I also don't think, like, all this stuff gets treated to Trump and the people around him. He's like a Schrodinger's partition. On one hand, he's such an idiot and moron and everyone thinks he's so stupid, and on

the other hand, he's like pulling all these strings and tying everything together. I think neither of those things are true, but I do think the family spent a lot more time thinking about this than Donald Trump has. Well, I think that's the point you just made is why some people are frustrated is because it just felt like the rollout was haphazard, right Dan? I mean, if this had been a month in the making and they had said, we've looked at every single country and this is how we're rolling out reciprocal tariffs based on specific circumstances. And the numbers as well. Well, the numbers are fake.

The numbers are just made up off the cuff, right? It is, this is what I like about Trump. Say what you want. He's funny, right? This is a funny, this is a funny government, this is a funny organization. The wall is going to be however it is, at least every day Trump's funny, right? This is a funny government, this is a funny organization. The world's going to be however it is, at least every day Trump's funny. They've just gone to GPT and punched in this, whatever, and said, what should we do our tariffs based on? And then they just said, you know,

it's almost like they're running it as a joke. Like, do you dare me to label this as tariffs and I'll go out there and tell everybody this is what they charge in reciprocal tariffs? It's just nonsense, but it's fairly harmless nonsense. I wouldn't say that's necessarily harmless, but I think that if it's a negotiating tactic to show that you're serious, then yes. My point is, I think Bitcoin has been through this so much. I don't think it's a big conspiracy. I think Trump's just a little bit simple. And he looked at the numbers was like these countries ripping us off. Let's tariff them back. What will happen is something will get resolved and it will come out in the wash and that'll be and then we'll be on the next thing. But I'm certainly not worried about it. the That relationship is the whole thing. By the way, for those who are watching the markets, insane volatility, the S&P just dropped all the way back to the open.

It's at 49.95. Now it's back up, it was at 49.52, but was all the way up to 52. Even while we were just starting this call, we had kind of this crazy bounce and now paring back those gains across all markets. Bitcoin currently trading back at $78,500. It went as high as $81,200 while we were on this call.

Perian, but I want to ask you because we're kind of zooming in here, obviously, over and over and over on Trump. You're much closer to this administration than anyone else. When you view what's happening, the way that this was rolled out, all of these things, do you think it's a master plan? Do you think that everybody is sort of in line with the narratives or do you think that there is a degree of throwing things at the wall? So I think we do need to zoom out and really think about what is the strategy here and also what's the history of the United States with tariffs? So there's been, you guys may have caught some comments

about having an external revenue service and doing away with the internal revenue service. So prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, the majority of the revenue came through a tariff program. This is how the United States used to operate, where all of the money, all of the revenue came through a tariff program. This is how the United States used to operate, where all of the money, all of the resources needed to run our federal government came from external sources, which was largely through tariffs.

So that means there was less of a focus on taxes on American citizens. So once we had the creation of the federal income tax, and if you guys know the history of that, it's, in my opinion, I think it's indentured servitude. That's my like very libertarian tax policy view, but you work and then like as much as 30% of your, your paycheck goes to the federal government who did absolutely nothing to contribute to the work that you did. This is not how it was originally designed. This is not how tax policy was envisioned in the founding of

our country. And it got so far away from its intended purpose. The income tax was only supposed to be on the very, very, very top earners. And it was extremely controversial when this was rolled out. And within just a couple of years, the income tax went from, okay, we'll just tax the most wealthy people in the country to everybody is subjected to it. So this is a much bigger conversation is transitioning the United States back to its foundational principles of how we've done tax policy, less focused on squeezing money out of American citizens, and more so coming up with better revenue streams to fund the operations

of the federal government and tariffs being a very major part of that. That has really been a big part of what's missing in the conversation. I think everybody wants to criticize the Trump administration saying, oh, these tariffs are going to be a disaster. Everybody's focused on, is this going to make the cost of this or the cost of that? All of our products, imports go up. I mean, I guess that is a part of the conversation, but why is nobody talking about the benefits? The benefits of your taxes are gonna go down. The benefit is less of your hard earned money goes into the government's coffers,

into all these bureaucratic programs that the federal government sponsors and oversees. And as we have Elon Musk and the Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency coming in, for really the first time, we're starting to see a lot of transparency and where is that money going to? And it's often laughable, the types of things that we're seeing, but it's also very upsetting that taxpayer money has been abused. There's a lot of fraud and corruption in the system. So it is a part of that bigger conversation.

We should have a much more lean and mean federal government operations. Taxpayer funds should be used in a very accountable way, a transparent way. And I think the cool part of this is blockchain can be a big part of that conversation. As we're looking to root out waste, fraud, and abuse of the federal government, come up with a better way to fund the federal government, make taxes lower for the American people, we also should put into place blockchain based systems that future proof the work of the Doge. So this never happens again. For example, tracking and tracing where taxpayer American taxpayer funds are going on a blockchain on an unalterable ledger that's publicly verifiable. So we know where our funds are going. So this is actually a conversation about restoring the United

States fiscal health. And it's, in my opinion, this is one of the most important things our generation can be working on, that the financial stability of the United States is absolutely in jeopardy with extremely unsustainable debt levels, our debt to GDP ratios are so far out of whack. This is a huge problem. This can jeopardize the United States dominance globally. So I think that's the conversation. And so many people

are just focused on, oh, tariffs, this is crazy. The execution is bad. Is the cost of wine going to go up? There's actually something so much more important here that needs to be addressed. And it is, again, getting back to our principles in the United States of how we fund the federal government and ensuring that taxpayers are not funding inappropriate programs or there's waste fraud use of taxpayer funds.

So then you lean more towards a longer term policy play for a true reset than simply a negotiating tactic to get rid of all these things. Yeah, it's a lot more strategic than where I think the conversation is. It's really completely transforming the country from that internal revenue service focused policy to an external revenue policy and that is going to be good for the American people. Simon? Yeah, just want to say, I hate to burst the bubble.

All of that is symptoms from the Federal Reserve System. As long as the dollar is debt, you always have a Ponzi scheme. And a Ponzi scheme always changes human behavior that will always lead to increases in debt and a reversal of policy. So you could pretend that there's a way of paying down the debt. But if you think that reducing $37 trillion doesn't lead to a reduction of $37 trillion of dollars and that doesn't change the entire market then I don't get it. Everything's a lie. We're Bitcoiners here. As Bitcoiners we know, fix money, fix the world. And so if you're not fixing money you're not going to change anything. All

you're going to do is delay the inevitable. Now, did we need a creative destruction? Yes, we did. And that's what Trump has delivered. But if the end result of all of this is you forget the Federal Reserve system, and you were talking about tax reform, when did income tax come in? 1913, the same year the Federal Reserve was created, because they knew they created a debt-based Ponzi scheme and they wanted to steal the wealth of middle-class Americans and hand it over to the banks that are actually able to create the

dollar as debt in a debt-based Ponzi scheme that can never work. The result you have today is the inevitable predictable and guaranteed result of the structure of the dollar. There are two systems that are now being pitted against each other. A debt-based Ponzi scheme where the Federal Reserve has completely wiped out middle-class America and handed over all wealth to billionaires that rig the entire system because they got a special subsidy from creating the dollar and its debt, which then required exporting of the dollar globally in order to get those dollars everywhere so that they could be re-spent in America so that you could keep the Ponzi scheme going for as long as people will buy those treasuries and those bonds. Whereas China has a different model, which is that it has a manufacturing base, a state banking system, and therefore it uses currency manipulation.

The way to offset tariffs, if China wants to offset, and this is what they immediately retaliated with, is if you charge a 30% tariff, all they need to do is devalue their currency by 30% and therefore you have completely offset the effect. This is a game between China and America, two different banking systems. One is leading to reinvestment in people, their own colleges, their own infrastructure, their own partners, their own countries, and the other is a predatory system that wipes out middle class and goes to war with countries in order to defend a debt-based Ponzi scheme through wealth confiscation. That's why if America actually wants to do MAGA from my

perspective, then wipe out the special subsidy that the banks get by issuing a stablecoin standard where individuals get the yield rather than the issuer getting the yield and have a Bitcoin strategic reserve so that you can slowly do a controlled demolition and change it to a hard monetary base. Until they do that, everything else is the atrics, wealth confiscation, the rich will get richer, the poor get poorer, and the economy will shrink and everyone will flee over to those countries with their hard money. Sounds a lot. Alex, go ahead.

Yeah, I would say I think Simon's half right on things and sort of when you're talking about what you'd have to do to reset it, but I don't think anyone actually wants that reset. I think the fundamental idea that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is wrong in the sense that the rich are getting richer faster than the poor. But fundamentally, the standard of living and the resources available to the average American and the poorest Americans are still dramatically higher. Have you looked at the stats?

Have you looked at the suicide rate? Yes, I've looked at all the stats. When you look at the suicide rate, I've looked at all the stats, a drug addiction, and what I'm saying is if you rewind to like, you know, a mercantile system from a hundred years ago or something, the overall quality of life is still magnitudes. I could look after my family today.

No one can look after their family. There's suicide rates. There's depression. There's drug addiction, every single statistic is that this system is the worst system there's ever been. That's not true. You're just saying that like, you can interpret stats in lots of different ways. But that's also

just fundamentally what just people speak to people. We've also seen like a huge shift in our culture. I mean, used to families, single families could get away with one person working today, you have both partners have to work a full time job or sometimes multiple full time job, just to get by. And the standard of living has decreased. The American dream, so to say, is hardly attainable for young people today. And it comes down to the money is broken. But I mean, you guys are both making

really good points. I mean, Simon, I love that you're so like, we've got to completely reset the money system. And I do think a big part of that is it would create a huge global shakeup. So I do believe in sound money. I want us to get back to a sound money system. I believe that reflects the values of the American way of life. But it needs to be done in a very, very controlled setting. Because if you have like a massive shift overnight, a lot of people can get hurt that way. You know, we don't want mass chaos.

You want a very controlled change in a very controlled ship. So I think kind of what we're seeing right now, maybe it is a part of a much bigger master plan to move the US to go back to a sound money system. And I certainly hope so. Scott, I had to let you know, I have to drop because I've got another thing at the top of the hour. So I just wanted to say thank you and I appreciate the conversation for having to drop off. Awesome to have you here today.

And we we got to do some other things as well. So I'll get in touch with you privately. I have quite a few quite a few topics I'd love to discuss. Yes and go Gators! Big night tonight. There you go. All right, just go ahead. Yeah, I just want to, obviously it's always interesting to see Simon's view on things and he's lying on that hill, right? This is his views and I think you know it has place, but I want to speak for the small guy. I spent a lot of time on the meme coin trenches, the new people that came into crypto, that was their onboarding channel.

And I see a lot of bad things. I see people getting completely wrecked because basically they were victims of disinformation. This whole meme coin culture that is today driving at least traffic in the crypto space and interest in the crypto space and onboarding the crypto space and user engagement in the crypto space is led by a complete disinformation. And unfortunately, when you have certain shocks like this, like what's happening right now, unfortunately, the little guys suffer first, right? They They suffer first. They don't understand what's going on. They don't understand crypto. Their leaders are misleading them and basically just engaging in crazy value extraction. Just to go back on the markets very quickly, I think that what's happening right now is a kind of a mini reset, a mini shock.

Something has to break, obviously. Nothing broke yet. We'll see what is going to break. But something has to break in this. But this time around, I think the shock is will be the response to the shock is going to be a little bit different than the other times. This time around, we have a high velocity risk with the ETFs. We don't have backstops like we used to do. We don't have, for example, obviously a lot of, there's no backstops in the ETFs.

People can completely divest very quickly and you're going to see very rapid falls when it comes to people panicking, etc. So what I'm seeing here is the beginning of something that is quite a shock to the system and it's going to be such a deep shock because this is a global shock and the decision, because this is a global shock and the decision, the speed of the decision making around the world is not the same. The EU, for example, does not respond as fast as China would do, as fast as the US would do, simply because these countries and these places are organized in a different manner. Democracy means different things in different places. So I think that regimes where you have one person

taking decisions and actually leading and you don't have distributed decision-making are going to basically adjust to this the fastest. I think the places like the EU where you have many bodies, many, you need to get a lot of consensus is going to suffer, is going to not be able to adjust quickly. So I think we're heading to some new times, new challenges, new times. I think this is a big sign that there is a reset, but unfortunately this is not the big monetary reset.

In order to have like Simon says, obviously at a certain point people will understand that the debt-based system is not the right system. I mean you need to understand that most of Muslim countries, for example, engage with this system just because they have to. But fundamentally, they cannot engage because it's not prescribed in their traditions, etc. So this whole system, obviously, its systems evolve and they get better with time. But hopefully, but unfortunately, the shocks are deep. I mean, you see through history, you see that, and whenever there is a change,

there is a huge shock that happens before that, and then you see change. But I think we are living in a shock, and hopefully we'll be able to adjust, and the Trump administration will be able to give us some good news after good news post shockshock, but we are in the shock. Yeah, Alex? Yeah, I mean, this kind of goes back to what I was saying in response to Simon's, which is that debt-based systems aren't inherently evil.

Like, there's a lot of problems, to be clear clear with the current American economic system. And part of the reason I was saying that like, it's not going to get massively reset. It's not going to go anywhere on it. Um, is that it gives the U S too much power and the U S and I'm not just talking about like domestically over its people I'm talking about internationally. And they're not just going to fully give it out. Trump's obviously backing off of it to some degree and trying to back off some of the obligation

that it imposes, but fundamentally, the US isn't going to want to give it up. And most of the other countries in the world don't want the US to give it up because it has led to ultimately greater peace overall. I personally like, I'm a Bitcoiner and like it because it gives an alternative to it. It gives a transition that allows a balancing of that.

And I think we need Bitcoin as a bigger and a more powerful influence exactly for that reason. But the idea that we're going to get like an overnight reset of that or that it become some beautiful heavenly setup if we did, no, it would be like massive, massive amounts of wars, both civilly inside countries and between them. Amen. Yeah, I mean, no, the statistics just don't actually match up. Since the Bank of England created the GBP debt-based Ponzi,

it then had three attacks on America to remove constitutional money and replace it with a debt-based Ponzi scheme that then had three attacks on America to remove constitutional money and replace it with a debt-based Ponzi scheme that they know they could use in order to bankrupt the US government. And now it's in $37 trillion of debt has actually led to the ability for governments to be a layer three in the network. So the Federal Reserve is way more important than government. Underneath that, intelligence agencies launch covert operations and they install the politicians who are actually representing corporate interests. Politicians don't decide what happens next. They get paid for, they're bribed, they're blackmailed or assassinated to do exactly

what corporate interest wants them to do, which is extract wealth. Extract wealth from the masses to the hands of a few. And that is why this system was created. It is inherently evil. It's killed 300 million people. And to say that we live in more peace right now is a very American story, because America is killing people all around the world, as we currently speak, just as Britain did, through its debt based Ponzi scheme. You just don't know about it because they don't tell you because they lie, and it's done by the CIA. And so to say that it is a peaceful system, it's not, it's now or never, if you roll over

this scheme, and you don't use the fact that you already created the creative destruction and carnage that is needed to shock the system, you already have the legislation and the desire to do a Bitcoin strategic reserve and a stable coin standard is just around the corner. If you return this back to normal and the message is do not change anything, then I'm sorry, this will be the slow confiscation of Americans' wealth and that is exported globally and it caused death, destruction, wealth inequality and all of those are symptoms of the system that the Bank of England created that is inherently evil and does not do any of those things that

you just said it does. All right, everybody. Well, we've got a smaller panel today and Mario is still running the finance spaces from this morning, which is basically having a concurrent conversation. So we're going to go ahead and wrap today. We'll see where the market closes and where we end up tomorrow. Give everybody on stage a follow and until tomorrow, see you guys.