The Wolf Of All Streets - BONK Dump Incoming? Expert Analysis | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

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Yo. Yo, what's up? I don't know, we're already talking about a dump. Ran should be co-host because I have no idea what the hell we're talking about here. I don't know who said anything about a dump. Bunk has made generational wealth for, I mean, hundreds of people. I've seen screenshots of people that made $10 million. $10 million people made.

Do you remember the guy who was on here that had like six billion dollars worth of SHIB at the peak and didn't sell any? Do you remember that? Mario, was that you and I on the roundtable show? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was SHIB Toshi something. No, no, not SHIB Toshi. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I know exactly

the space you're talking about. I remember you were there as well. But first, should we change the title? I don't know who came up talking about i know exactly the space you're talking about i remember you were there as well but ran first should we change the title i don't know he came up with a title about a dump probably scott this is this is a title nothing nothing to do with me nothing i mean it must be a very dry news friday if we're talking about uh bonk but okay let's talk about bonk and that was your idea yeah you said the news of the day is Bonk. You asked me what the news of the day was. I said to me the biggest news

of the day is Bonk. The thing's done 29,000% in the week. Oh, generally, yeah. That's done that

in this week. It's funny, I pay no attention. I know that Bonk had run massively even ahead of this and then I saw the Coinbase

listing. Coinbase and the Binance listing and I think it did about 29 000 okay so i was listening to kyle kyle chasse's uh show like he he his explanation probably i should bring him in his explanation like hey everyone's bored of the old meme coins now everything's about

pepe and bonk is it really is that it is that all it takes for i mean everything everything um everything is about solana um you know the narrative is solana right now i don't know if you've seen helium has also exploded um you know the narrative is very much about solana and people want the nice shiny thing on uh on solana which is a meme coin and if you want to talk about the market you're talking about a meme coin that admittedly has zero utility not trading at a three billion dollar valuation just think about that means like we've created three billion dollars out of thin air on a coin that admittedly has zero use case other than the fact that it's a meme

it has a use case to refund the entire solana ecosystem well that's what that's exactly what happened so solana is actually i think i was i don't have any in front of me but it was like it's 76 bucks earlier it is it's 76 bucks at the moment why because there's a whole lot of new liquidity that's being created on this chain there's new millionaires that have been created on this chain and i even know like guys in our office and like these are people that earn like between two and five grand a month and these guys are making hundreds of thousands of dollars in bunk now obviously i've been screaming i've been running around the office going guys sell sell sell take profits take

profits take profits and some of them have um but i mean it's it's the the creation is of value of wealth in the space is ridiculous and and when i say that it's also going to be the destruction of wealth if and when this thing goes into a heap then it's going to be the destruction of this of this world i've seen it before mario mario mario we got to get joe up because i'm actually remembering, I think when we had Austin up, Joe was DMing me because obviously he had built in the Solana ecosystem. And I think his claim, I don't even want to misquote it,

but it was something he said basically that Bonk is all the Solana whales like coordinating to massively pump this token to refund the entire Solana ecosystem and build it back up. I don't know that that's true. You know what's wild about this, Scott, is normally when you have these meme tokens pump, they're always pumping on decentralized networks. And when they finally get listed on stuff like Coinbase and Binance and Crypto.com, that ends up being exit liquidity for everybody and they immediately tank.

So this makes me wonder what the hell is going to happen if Pepe gets listed on Coinbase. Yeah, I mean, Doge was the city that people forget. But I remember from my conversations with CZ at the time, sadly, Steve Ehrlich at Voyager and others, when Doge went mainstream, and by the way, Doge was kind of listed on a lot of them, it was yet to be listed on some. But when Doge went absolutely nuts with Elon Musk, that was the singular reason that all of the centralized platforms couldn't keep up with customer service and signups. Remember that period, it must have been the very beginning of 2021 when there was like two or three months of waits to sign up to centralized platforms i was literally people looking to trade doge and

i remember both of them saying that uh at the time when i interviewed them which was insane that simply the hype around a meme coin was enough to freeze these platforms i've seen this before once which was on pepe i don't know if remember. I don't know if Pepe got this high, but it was very, very high. And I don't know if you remember the dump that ensued when it went all the way back from, I think it was about a $2 billion market cap. And it went all the way down to $300 or $400 million or something. So I don't know. Maybe Solana does need a meme coin.

There isn't a real meme coin on Solana. Doge's got a meme coin. Ethereum's got Pepe. Maybe Solana does need a meme coin. And isn't a real meme coin on Solana. You know, Doge has got a meme coin. Ethereum's got Pepe. Maybe Solana does need a meme coin, and maybe Bonk is going to be the one. But if I was a betting man, sorry, since I am a betting man, since I am a betting man, I've actually been short all day. Oh, wait.

I haven't watched the price action, but is there something specific after 29,000% or whatever that number was that makes you think today is the day? No. Coin-based listing. So generally, the peak of these pumps is a coin-based or Binance listing. Same thing happened with Pepe. Usually, the Binance listing is all the anticipation. It goes crazy, and then everything calms down.

And today today there was a binance listing and yesterday i think there was a coinbase listing so i think that all of those are already in the market and then for me it's uh i mean i don't know i look i might be wrong don't anybody follow me on this trade no the worst that happens i assume is your stop loss triggers people like for some reason every time you mention not you specifically but if you come on stage without context and tell somebody you're short something and it goes up they think you've lost your entire net worth

which obviously is inaccurate I'm trying to get caught but don't you think I invited Joe as well Joe Santos let me get caught I've called him yeah regular Joe who I used to club with in Philadelphia in the early 2000s yes Joe Santos Yeah, I've called him. Yeah, regular

Joe, who I used to club with in Philadelphia in the early 2000s. Yes, Joe Santos. If you can get Kyle, be good. I've just pinged him and called him. And anyone else that can explain to me why,

how this shit happens. And that kind of answers your question, by the way, guys. Remember how we were debating earlier, will this bull run be the same as other bull runs? Or will it be more regulated? I said yes and more crazy. I think Ran said we'd never get all season again. I'm going to take what I said.

I'm not kapo. I'm big enough to take back what I said. And it looks like it's playing out exactly like all that other previous old seasons exactly yeah i mean you there's there's nothing that's still anywhere except for maybe for united states citizens prohibits people from the same behavior as the past i mean these aren't frauds right i mean yes the the things we've seen collapse in crypto in the past few years have been a bunch of centralized platforms, certainly a lot of fraud, and I think the yield side. But nothing has really changed as far as mint a token, watch it go nuts,

and cash out for billions of dollars for some of these people, right? It's going to be the same people doing it over and over again. You know what? The one thing that you've got to commend the SEC about is how the SEC has been protecting the American investor because the American investor can't be buying these coins until they list on Coinbase. And only when they list on Coinbase and pump, the American investor becomes the exit liquidity. So you've got to commend the SEC. We can't short it. And we can't even short it. We can't even short it in that scenario. We can only buy it. We're doing a great it protecting the another thing against profits another thing to keep in mind is that i think this is actually you could make an

argument that this was caused by the sec um in that if you look at if you look at the meme coins that are getting listed there's a stronger argument that those coins aren't securities because it's just mean bullshit with no actual operation behind it. So what's happened is the SEC has been quite in, I don't know if it's inadvertent or if it's deliberate, but a consequence of going after projects that actually deliver useful products has been that the only coins that US investors can get their hands on are just total bags of nonsense. It's a form of rebellion. It's a form of buying meme coins's a form of rebellion. Buying meme coins is a form of rebellion against the SEC saying, well, you know what, we're going to buy these things that have zero

value just to prove to you that we can trade these things because you won't let us trade the real things. President, since you're here, can I ask you a question about the hacker that pled guilty to the $12 million DeFi hack? I think this is the first smart contract fraud conviction.

Have you been following it? You or Ron? Anyone of Carlo? I haven't. So I'm going to defer someone else on that one. Yeah, so this news broke. And I actually posted about it yesterday. It was interesting development. Because this is the first time that that I'm aware of that DOJ has done this with a hacker. And, of course, sent has done this with a hacker. And of course, sentencing is coming up in March, so we don't know how it's all going to play out. But again, just everyone who thinks that they're in this ecosystem where there are no consequences for gaming these platforms is in for a rude awakening.

So why is it so surprising though so why would hackers when it comes to crypto why would hackers feel like they they're they're not going to be the doj is not going to come after them and why is it taking so long for the first smart contract fraud conviction like i think this is the first one and you know we've been seeing those for years now i think it's a slow boil mario i think it's a slow boil, Mario. I think it's a slow boil because I've talked with a lot of agents that are working in this space and they're number one, overwhelmed. There are so many complaints and so many victims that they're trying to track down and deal with. So that's one aspect of it. And then it's the sheer volume.

There's been so much of this behavior in the space that I think there's probably some low-hanging fruit that's easier for them to go after. And people seem to think that through a VPN and through decentralized networks, they can somehow avoid detection. And that's just really a huge misconception, because they're able to deconstruct through IP addresses and search warrants to these internet service providers. They're able to reconstruct these transactions and track these people down. So I think we're just going to see more of this.

Was the guy, so this guy's name is Ahmed something Ahmed. I'm trying to find the full name. Was he based in the US? Do you know? I'm looking right now through the DOJ press release. So let me double back on that. He's agreed to pay a restitution of 5 million to the victims. So the hack was for 12 million.

So he stole it from two platforms and attempted to hide the theft through several actions. Notably, Ahmed swapped the gains for Monero. They're getting good at this stuff. Moved funds through crypto mixes such Monero. There we go. They're getting good at this stuff. Moved funds through crypto mixes such as some. So hold on. So if he moved it through crypto mixers and moved it to Monero, then went through mixers. And then used the blockchain hopping.

Okay, from New York. Okay. If he wasn't based in the US, would he be able to get away with it? Or would the DOJ still be able to come after him? Not really. I mean, I think what you've seen so with with enforcement actions like this the united states has essentially unlimited resources um to go after anyone who they deem is appropriate but limited manpower so if they decide that you're a target they're going to find out who you are they're going to do it by applying pressure on companies to disclose subscriber records. In this case, it seems that the hacker Googled his own actions and used a search engine

to search terms relating to the hack. I'm sure there was a subpoena sent to a search engine company at some point of the proceedings, which asked, give us information about people who are searching for their own information. So the amount of data that they can acquire and obtain and their resources in terms of pooling that data and running analytics on that data is, is tremendous. I mean, it really is. So how would they, sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. I was going to ask, how did they find out about the whole Monero?

What confuses me, surprises me in a really positive way is how they managed to find out that he moved it from Monero. He moved it to Monero then went through mixers the exact mixtures he used they say such as samurai and whirlpool not sure if that's the exact ones you use them to circle back mario he was googling about how to flee the united states which suggests to me that he did this from within the united states but as far as the the analytics you know they've got very sophisticated algorithms that can deconstruct these tornado cash transactions. It's not easy to do, but they

are able to, through very, very sophisticated algorithms, break down these transactions and reconstruct them. It's a lot of work, which is why you don't see as many of these cases right now as you would think you'd see, but it can be done. Well, I'm looking at, I mean, I'm looking here and so Monero, so Monero is pretty solid when it comes to encryption. And you know this because when you read search warrants or when you read informations or indictments, I've seen it where it says, you know, we seized a number of, an amount of cryptocurrency, X Bitcoin, Y number of Ethereum, and an unknown number of Monero, right? Which means they weren't able to find out how much Monero was in the wallet they seized. But in this case, if we look at the press release, right, which gives us a hint, Ahmed

laundered the millions of fees that he stole from the crypto exchange to conceal their source and ownership, including through one, conducting token swap transactions, two, bridging fraud proceeds from the Solana blockchain over to Ethereum, and three, exchanging fraud proceeds into Monero. And I'm not sure how that happened. fraud proceeds from the Solana blockchain over to Ethereum, and three, exchanging fraud proceeds into Monero. And I'm not sure how that happened, but if there was a single key pair that he used, which was associated with his name, it's like leaving a footprint or leaving a fingerprint somewhere. And once they can make that connection, they can then ramp up the surveillance on the target until they get enough information to get probable cause to make an arrest.

So in this case, my guess is his OPSEC was sloppy. He might have reused the wallet. He reused an address. That's something people do all the time. And he found a really easy vulnerability and he decided to go and exploit it. But he left something behind, right? Or he did something with these transactions that connected him to some repository of real-world identity, which docks them, right? Because that's what they'll do. They'll say, okay,

well, we know that this address transacted with Coinbase. So they just go to Coinbase with a search warrant and say, give us everything you've got on this individual for all time, and they'll say everyone who's transacted with him, any identity documents, every time he's logged in, his email address, his KYC information. So they'll get a huge amount of data. The user agent string, they'll know what browser he logged into the website with and what version of an OS he was running when he did it. So they get a really huge amount of information on their targets when they decide to make someone a target. So crime, you know, as long as your OPSEC is airtight and you live in Siberia and

you're friends with Vladimir Putin, like in that case, you know what, go hack whoever you want. Chances are pretty good that nothing's going to happen to you. If you live anywhere that's going to extradite you to the United States, that's a very different ballgame and a very dangerous one. 100% agree with you, Preston. And this guy was out of New York. And if you want to look at the roadmap, Mario, look at the criminal complaint in the Frosty's NFT case. It gives a methodical breakdown of how they were able to track everything back through the internet interactions with providers as far as the art that they created, the bridging

back and forth from Coinbase. It's very easy for them to reconstruct this stuff. Yeah, I didn't know they could reconstruct this. I want to pick up some of the thoughts that Carlo mentioned, which was that it's very difficult for the IRS criminal investigation to track these hackers. It's a lot of work. But they came out and announced just this past month that they are going to be shifting their focus from going after this sort of crime to focusing more on tax evasion.

Tax evasion is basically speaking to anybody who's not reporting their cryptos. This is so easy for them to go after. The IRS knows who all the crypto traders are in the US. They have the trading data from all the exchanges and now Binance International. They know all the traders. They can look in your tax return and see if you reported your crypto trades. If you didn't, that's a fraudulent return. There's no statute of limitations protection. They don't have to prove how much you didn't report. All they have to do is charge you with the crime of tax evasion. And over 90% of the time, people are doing plea bargains to get out of, it's a felony. You have over a year of prison, $250,000 of fines on top of getting current on

all your taxes. So they've basically shifted this. This is going to be an easier enforcement method. And I think the collateral benefit that they experienced from this is that it will scare the criminal side. It'll increase greater tax revenues, which is what the commissioner wants. So I think this is a big focus that we all should be aware of in this next year. The IRS has tripled the number of criminal enforcement agents. They've got another 150 digital asset lawyers in the DOJ just to focus on this type of enforcement. So they've got their machine revved up. And this is what we're gonna see a lot of this next year. And remember, and remember, Scott, they warned everybody to come clean and make their disclosures on their tax returns. So every time these people off ramp into centralized protocols like Coinbase,

they're leaving a breadcrumb. And it's just a matter of time now before they walk it back. God, Clinton, it's Christmas, man. That was aggressive. Made me scared. And I know I'm not doing anything wrong. Well, we know that 75% of the IRS knows that 75% of crypto traders are not even reporting. They're not even saying yes to the virtual currency. I mean, to your point, they move that box right at the literally to the first third

of the front page of the tax return that says, you know, do you hold or view whatever specific language? But do you hold or have you interacted with crypto? It's the first thing on the tax return now. That wasn't the case, obviously, in 17 or 18 or 19. But right now, it's pretty obvious that you need to report. Guys, I have a quick question though is this year if you've if you've been someone who hasn't been filing you know now it's time to put a strategy into place to move towards compliance especially with a bull market you'll start making profits you can start taking

some of those to maybe address you know tax liabilities but if you do nothing you're really exposed because the irs will come after you i mean if you haven't paid your taxes in crypto you're really exposed because the irs will come after you i mean if you haven't paid your taxes in crypto you're you're you're a moron i mean yeah so just quickly it gives my mic working can you hear me yeah we just didn't want to listen to you so we kept it okay okay i thought you got the robotic thing uh listen um before going to kyle and i brought another speaker as well to talk about um bonk because everyone wants to learn about Bonk. But just quickly on that case, Carlo, can you tell me more about people that are launching? What is their legal liability?

Because I'm pretty surprised they're still launching them, and they seem to be pretty blatant about it, and some of them based in the US. Obviously, others are not docs and trying their best to remain anonymous could we start seeing you broke up a little against were you asking about were you asking about people that drop these meme coins yeah could we see enforcement uh against people that are launching all these different meme coins yeah i i think anything is open to enforcement in this in this very hyper aggressive uh regulatory regime that we're in right now and And it goes back to what are they representing to the public? You know, if they're making representations that they're going to build this network and they're going to make all these improvements to this network,

and this token is going to have all this utility, and they don't follow through on any of that, of course, they're going to get the attention. But again, it goes back to where are they launching them from? Who is launching them? And how are you going to back channel to find these people? Because a lot of these tokens get spun up on decentralized networks, they don't really have any infrastructure, and they go parabolic. So it's just a matter of there are limited resources on law enforcement side, and they have to focus on the low hanginghanging fruit, and they go after big targets to make examples. So it really is just a matter of where these things fall on the priority

list. Kyle, you were talking about what promises they make. What promises has Bonk made? What led to Bonk being the coin that goes up whatever thousand percent in the last week? They don't make any promises, and they also say that there's no expectations of any return or there's no expectations of the token having any monetary value. This is the one thing that people have to understand about meme coins is the harder somebody tries to make a meme coin, the less successful it will likely be. I have a video.

The reason I'm a little bit late here is I was just actually filming a video on Bonk, so that should go live on my channel in about 45 minutes or something. But if anyone wants to go watch it, I also dropped an even more ridiculous meme coin. Oh, you guys can just hear it now. It's a dog with a hat. It's the most ludicrous.

Our space is insane, right um but i love it and it's and you know at first i used to be really really like um i used to be you know like as a series as a vc and someone who's like also manages other people's money obviously i'm not a degenerate with their money it's just my own money that i am but the the people have spoken right they have spoken and right? They've spoken and they find value in memes and they find value in, look at, we have Bonk now is sitting at $1.8 billion market cap, $2.7 billion FDV. And it's listed on the biggest exchanges in the world.

And this thing is going to be the sheep, ship or doge of this bull run. People think, oh, this thing's coming down. It's had its run. You know, like Pepe, it's going to come back down and crash. It's a different market than Pepe was, right? And I'm a big believer. Like, I was a bit skeptical when the Binance listing came.

I think that Binance probably manipulates things a little bit in the way that they deal with these listings. I think they probably bought it all the way up. And I think that when they listed it, they probably sold a bunch, and that's why we saw that correction. But it's coming back up right now. It's a lot to do with luck and narratives and timing, and just super simple. So I actually, on my

show today, I read off a tweet from uh from patty the pirate who said he basically asked his girlfriend he pointed at three logos and said which one do you like the best and she pointed at bonk because it was the cutest and that was 10 days ago and it's rallied like another 300 or something like that since in the last in the last 10 since then and so you know he said next time quick okay yeah Mario I would say one thing

I would be very very surprised if Coinbase is counter trading their customers under the regulatory spotlight I thought he said Coinbase okay I'm sorry Kyle there's one thing he said that people he said one comment. Okay, I'm sorry. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Kyle, there's one thing you said. You said one comment.

People find value in meme coins. Please explain what value that is. Most people, retail, don't understand what the utility of a token is. And so when you try to tell them that you're doing cross-chain bridges and you're using yield from Uniswap V3 to maximize your yield on LSD products, Staked and ETH, and then you have an airdrop coming in from AVAX, and then you have Celesta, which is a modular blockchain,

and then you use all these tokens that run validators and secure networks. People are like, dude, what are you talking about, bro? I just want, and the whole Wall Street bets and GameStop thing was every time that anyone went and made a video, even the famous court hearing, it was just, I like the stock. And this is, I like the crypto. I like the coin.

I like the way it looks. And this is a speculator's game. The fact is that most of these blockchains, most of these, look, Celestia is a $12, 13 billion dollar market cap coin that has zero users on it right now. Injective, another three billion dollar coin that has zero users. But that is the building. But at least a promising utility. There's a team building utility.

What I'm asking is that what is Bonk building? You said they're not promising anything, not building anything. So and then you said that the people don't understand crypto. They're building it. They're building a anything. So, and then you said that people don't understand crypto. They're building a community, right? And another tweet that I was reading on my show just now was, you know, that another billion dollar community has been formed

and NFTs, crypto, DAOs, they form communities with, and the token aligns incentives between those people, right? And I'm not saying that it has revenue. Right. But this is why TradFi can't wrap their brains around what's going on over here, because they're always looking. That's because we're redacted and they shouldn't. I mean, it makes me it makes me want to show stupid. Scott, it makes me want to say you are. Yeah, I agree with everything, Kyle.

I agree with everything you're saying, but that doesn't make it good. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying this is the fact, right? Yeah, I agree. I agree. Look at Doge, right? Doge was a meme forever, useless.

And then Elon decides to love it. And then what's going to happen when Twitter becomes a super app that integrates financial systems and cryptocurrency? Guaranteed that Doge is one of the – it probably won't be the only coin represented there, but it probably will have utility and probably be like the highlighted one of X platform. And you never know. But that was first building community. It was funny. Elon likes irony.

And eventually ended up something something happened with it you also had the other coins where shiba was a meme coin at first with no utility and the community was built around it and later they decided to build shibarium and shivers and bone and leash and all this other stuff which is all completely useless right it's all it's totally useless but right so they built built nothing. It makes me want to channel my internal John Stark and say that these things are just built for price to go up. If you think about it, Scott, they're basically liquid NFTs because NFTs are illiquid. They're tough to move unless you have a buyer. These are much easier to liquidate.

So you can end up being someone's exit liquidity a lot easier with a meme coin than you can with an NFT. But yeah, if I had to channel my internal John Stark, he would come in here and say right now, these are intended for one purpose, and that's price go up. Well, let me ask you something. Do you think that communities have value? Not those communities. Yeah, look, 100%. So Bored Ape Yacht Club was a bunch of dumb monkeys on JPEGs, right-click and save. And then they built, that's all it was.

It was a meme, like you just said, it was a meme coin, essentially, for a number to go up, built a community. They free-launched it, just like all these meme coins free-launched themselves. And then later it goes and raises that multi-billion dollar dollar valuation is now building something because they built a community first. I can't argue with any of that. Because if you look at my wallet, I'm an NFT advocate. I believe in NFTs. And I believe in the technology. The fact is, Kyle, what you just described is 100% accurate, what you said, where that value, at least the perceived value comes from. But even with Doge, I don't know the numbers, but I would venture the large majority of people bought it at

a significantly higher price than it's trading at today and never sold it. I'm not advocating that people go out here. I'm not saying for you, I'm making a point completely separately. I'm not responding to what you said. I think everything you said is completely right. I'm just saying, I laugh at this notion of community, uh, when it's tied to the price of a underlying financial asset, you know, like I don't want, I'm a member of a golf course. I don't want my expensive membership to go to zero, right? I don't need it to, it can be stable in price. Community is only as good as the price of the underlying asset. And when it crashes, all these people who were like their trippy turtles and they deeply identified with

their languishing lions or whatever the fuck else stupidity we created, it goes to zero and they don't give a shit about their lion anymore and they no longer identify as a turtle. But Kyle said, Kyle did say, and by the way, I'm with you there. I think community and a pump and dump group are not the same thing.

Kyle is right. Once again, Kyle is correct. No, but no, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. By the way, I listened to Kyle a lot. He's one of the smartest people I know. Kyle, you said this could become the next Pepe. This could become the next Doge because people are bored of Doge, bored of Shib. I've never bought a meme coin in my life. I'm pretty dumb when it comes to meme coins. What makes you say that?

What gives you the confidence to say that publicly it's it's um it's a matter of so it's incredibly powerful right now so um you had the solana phone that was that launched a while ago and it was kind of it was a lot of phone itself was kind of a meme right it's like it was a joke uh like all kinds of people tech reviewers reviewed it and said this is expensive expensive a very very expensive underperforming piece of hardware um and they had a hard time getting off the shelf and then now that you have this bonk phenomena everyone's buying now the the all of a sudden the last 48 hours every single solana phone in the world sold out because they airdropped some bonk coins to the salon of phones and to be clear kyle it's a 599 phone and people are getting 700 worth of bonk at the current price it's a hundred dollar

arbitrage opportunity exactly it's which is insane because people are spending that much time that's that's impossible but but then this is impossible to be sustainable then well there's no way so so the question is so you know uh so bonk itself is integrated it's the most integrated coin in the salon ecosystem it it's in every single app um i forget off the top of my head i don't remember all the integrations that it has but it is actually being used within a bunch of different things on the salon ecosystem as a currency um you just you just don't like and i'm i totally agree with you guys as well like we're i don't think we're we're definitely not arguing here about anything um but and and

scott what you were saying about the all the different like shit that was produced that's true and 99 of the the shit that's intended to be shit is going to always be shit but there's there's just and i don't know what the magic formula is for pepe it was clear right i understood that pepe is the biggest meme in the world. And so they built a meme coin around it. And now that's just the way it is. But Bonk, I don't know. It's like a cute little animated Doge or Shiba Inu with a bat across his head.

And I don't know what, but it took a lot of things for this to line up properly. Bonk has been around for a long time, but it was the first, I think it was, I believe it was the first meme coin on Solana. And it took the Solana narrative to take off. It took the bull market to get started to take off. And all the stars had to align for this thing to fall into place. And now it is. And people, the fact that people are now holding bags they have they they're aligned on that fact and yes the alignment of the community is is on the the basis that that coin

remains valuable and but when a community comes together i think for now it's like and there is actually a team behind bonk there's bonk is different than things like pepe where pepe was fair launched with 100 going uh you know through the liquidity pools. Bonk actually has some reserve from the team, and we'll see what they end up doing with it. I don't know. But building a community like that is super valuable. You can

move mountains with a big community. I'm curious to see where it goes. But Mario, to answer your question, that's what it is. People, if you look on the video I just made, I go back and I show you the top 100 cryptocurrencies from 2013 bull run, 2017

bull run, 2021 bull run. Almost none of the top 100 are relevant the following bull run. You see a few of them, but most of the 100 are gone the next bull run. And I think that's going to happen on this bull run too. All the new stuff is going to come in and push everything else irrelevant out and i think you always ask kyle they're like what's going to be the best performer of this cycle and i'm like

nothing you've heard of yet exactly um scott you've sent the just scott you sent that breaking news in the group yeah there's a well it's a Gary Gensler tweet, which might trigger everybody, but the breaking news, and we do have some lawyers here. Today, the commission denied a petition for rulemaking filed on behalf of Coinbase Global Inc. Read my statement here. This is what Gary Gensler had to say. Literally, it makes me want to puke when I say his name. First, existing laws and regulations apply to the crypto securities markets. Second, the SEC addresses the crypto securities markets through rulemaking as well. Third, it is important to

maintain commission discretion in setting its own rulemaking priorities. Hey, Carlo, Preston, can either of you give us some color on this? Yeah, I gotcha. I'm cognizant that some of my law partners are listening. So what I really thought you were thinking, how do I explain this to a bunch of simpletons who won't understand anything? So here's so I actually just wrote, I actually wrote an article for the

International Journal of Blockchain Law on this very subject. And let me a little by way of background, I'm admitted in England and Wales, and I'm also admitted in the United States. And in fact, I trained and qualified in England. So England has a really different securities regime. This is all going to make sense in a second, I promise. England has a very different regulatory regime for crypto assets than the US does. And basically, the way that you can summarize it in brief is that it lets crypto be crypto. So the laws acknowledge that people are going to trade crypto spot, that people are going to want to self custody their own assets. And they say, we're going to assume, right, that this is

legitimate economic activity. And what we're going to do to regulate it is we're going to try to put in a consumer protection regime, which allows people if if they want, to go and do trading on their own, caveat emptor, which means let the buyer beware. But if you are going to market these assets to consumers in the course of business in the United Kingdom, then you have to comply with all of these consumer protection regimes. So essentially, if you want to trade crypto, if there's a meme coin, if there's Dogecoin, if there's a new shit coin that's out and you want to trade it and it's on an exchange and it's just accessing the markets as they exist, the Brits let that happen, right? They say, it's not our position that we need to interfere with these markets and tell people what they can and can't buy. The US, by contrast, says, you know, actually, despite the fact that in the last 100 years of securities

regulation, we have never had a self-custodying digital asset, which can do things like instantly transfer value from one end of the world to the other, or serve as a decentralized DNS, or serve as a decentralized, like Helium, for example, someone mentioned earlier is a hot project. That's a cool project. It allows people to buy and sell bandwidth on LoRaWAN, which is really interesting and useful for AI and IoT stuff if you're trying to do radio communications and you don't have access to a cell tower. So that's really interesting stuff. The SEC says this is a security in exactly the same way as the bearer bonds in the safe at the top of Nakatomi Plaza in Die Hard. And we're going to regulate it in exactly the same fashion

as those financial instruments of yesteryear. And the origins of those instruments that we are regulating in this way go back hundreds and hundreds of years, right? I have a copy of a mortgage that was written on vellum by a solicitor charged by the word in my house, right? So it's written in ink, the lawyer's charged by the word, it had a stamp on it and a seal and the release on the back. And the way that you transferred it was by signing it on the back and then handing them the deed, right? This is really, really old tech. The SEC is trying to apply a regulatory regime for old tech, right? For stuff that crypto really isn't.

And so they say, you know, existing laws and regulations apply to the crypto securities markets. This is very much saying existing laws relating to the keeping of horses and animal welfare apply to your car, or apply to your car, which or apply to your spaceship or apply to something else. So we have this anachronistic legal regime in the United States. It's been enabled by a 1946 Supreme Court decision and subsequent precedents, which have been stretched very nearly to their limit in terms of the reasonable interpretation of what they mean. And I think the thing to really add on top of it you know, the reasonable interpretation of what they mean.

And I think the thing to really add on top of it is that they've gotten away with it because crypto hasn't had perfect product market fit since 2013, which is when you started seeing the first alt coins come out, like the proto shares and the bit shares and Raven coin and light coin and master coin, right? So those of us who were around back then said, you know, it's possible the securities laws could apply to this. There's some gray area, but it's certainly possible because currently people are investing in these for speculative purposes.

I think eventually the speculative purposes are going to fall away when you start needing strong crypto just to do daily business, which I think in the world of AI is going to be sooner rather than later. So the SEC has won yesterday's war. It controls the rules of the battlefield because essentially our legislators haven't updated the rules and there's no political

will to do so as long as the Democrats continue to be in charge. And so this is a dishonest statement, right? It's basically, it's intellectually dishonest, not legally dishonest because the SEC knows that the deck is stacked in its favor. It also knows that the US is one of those backward-looking jurisdictions on the planet, which is not even remotely progressive or trying to facilitate capital formation in the space. And they have it as their mission to abuse and misuse the securities laws that we have

to ensure that cryptoact activity cannot take off in the United States. Are they legally allowed to do it? Yes. Is it intellectually honest if you're just having a conversation among lawyers about what the law says to say, well, you know, the existing laws and regulations apply to the crypto securities markets? Yes, absolutely. If we are looking backwards, it is entirely appropriate to say that they have the power to deny these applications and to try to suppress crypto business. But if you're looking at which way the markets are going and the way that the United States traditionally embraces new technologies, as we did with the publishing Internet back in 1996, when we enacted the Communications Decency Act, Section 230 of which is likely responsible for American dominance of the global Internet. You know, clearly the SEC is being used as an obstacle to prevent the United States from becoming a crypto powerhouse because the U.S. wants everybody happy on the tax farm. So, yeah, I think it's a great overview, Preston.

I appreciate it. Scott, did you want to get more? I think Preston has really given enough as much information as one would. Yeah, I think we're good on that one. Back to Bonk. Back to Bonk. Back to more important things. Hold on. Crypto Lord, you tweeted something I loved. You're like,

tell me why Bonk isn't worth shorting and you keep tweeting about it dumping. Can you please tell me more about why it will dump and tell me why Kyle is wrong? Well, I think everybody has their own personal view about something. I think my why I'm actually fired about Bum actually dumping, maybe because I missed the pump or something like that. Well, we all know, sentimental part, we all know that me actually draw much attention and people actually want to get into the next 100x project. The truth is, even though Bonk dumps today, even though Bonk dumps now or dumps in this season, it doesn't mean that people are not going to be into the next meme run.

But you seem bullish on Bonk Crypto Lord. By the way, Scott, I just brought up, we didn't have any bunk speakers i just brought up someone i think knows about bunk um but but he's he's bullish so that didn't work uh cool can anyone tell us why bunk would dump because i need to balance out the bullish shorting it is literally shorting it rand is not going to be is a math yeah rana shorting rana rana shorting rana shorting rana shorting so. Rand is not going to be... Rand is shorting. Rand is shorting. Rand is shorting so you can buy back when it dumps. I want someone that says it's going to go to zero. What is the likelihood it will go to zero?

Not going to zero. Can't say that. Nothing goes to zero. Nothing goes to zero? Do you want me to give you a list of meme coins and NFT coins? I'm saying literal zero. There's plenty me to give you a list of meme coins and NFTs? I mean, I'm saying like literal zero. There's plenty of things that are worth almost nothing.

Yes. Kyle? So it's a representation of. So the thing is, it's taken on the identity of the meme coin of Solana. And it goes hand in hand now. It was responsible for making the Solana phone sell out. It was the thing that brought so much attention to Solana. It goes hand in hand now. It was responsible for making the Solana phone sell out. It was the thing that brought so much attention to Solana.

It goes hand in hand with the Solana community as something that represents their Pepe or their Doge or their Shib, whatever. That is Solana's thing. And if you're bullish Solana, then you better be bullish

bonk because it's my meme coin versus your meme coin what happened what happened by the way what happened what happened to pepe i haven't been keeping last time i looked at pepe was when there's that drama about some of the wallets selling some of the the original wallet selling and or moving tokens or something along those lines i haven't looked at it at all it's just because the ethereum ecosystem has been slow. You've had a lot of action from Cosmos and Solana recently and maybe some Avalanche stuff. Ethereum has largely

been a lagging performer and probably will not. Pepe will definitely take off again, especially when the masses come back and when the Ethereum ETF is more in spotlight. We'll wrap shortly, but can I ask the VC Kyle a question?

The Kyle I used to know from a couple of years ago. What are your thoughts on the Solana ecosystem? What are your thoughts on the, actually the market in general, we haven't had you on stage in a while. And what are some narratives you're excited about? Like I've always talked about gaming and the decentralized AI is something I'm really getting excited about.

I think you talk, I watched your show today before this space. I think you were talking about the real world assets, tokenizing real world assets. So give us what your focus is for the next 12 months. There's a lot of questions there. But your first one was, what about Solana? I used to be a very critic on Solana. It was going down all the time. They launched a bit earlier prematurely or couldn't

handle the bandwidth, but they had a lot of time and a lot of adversity to overcome. The FTX dramas, that narrative of it was an SBF coin, but they kept building. I watched a lot of that stuff at solana breakpoint and uh

one of these things called uh firestarter was recently implemented into solana which allowed it to simon like at any given time the solana blockchain with firestarter enacted could handle all the volume from visa mastercard swift and, I think, all at the same time. So it's hyperscalable. It's cheap and fast. It's got a vibrant community. And I've flipped from being a Solana bear to a Solana bull. And then from other things that we're interested in, some people are talking about Deepin things.

I think Deepin is very interesting. Someone said Helium. We've invested in a couple of Deepin projects over the past six months. Yeah, and then I think that gaming on Avalanche is going to be interesting. Avalanche seems to be the blockchain that most

AAA games are now being built on. IMX or Immutable has that reputation for the gaming blockchain, but in reality the one that's actually producing AAA games is Avalanche. And so Avalanche, even though it's sitting right now, I think at number 10 on market cap, could skyrocket to a top four or something like that if one of these AAA games gets mass adoption, because that brings all the attention to the underlying blockchain that allowed

everyday people to not give a shit about the underlying technology and just use the benefits of what it does. And so building a gaming ecosystem on an avalanche subnet allows you to kind of abstract away all of the Web3 friction that is normally involved for normies to come into the market. For example, Godzilla is going to allow people to play on PlayStation, Xbox, PC, mobile, and they don't ever have to care about the blockchain aspect if they don't want to. So those are my –

And last quick question is your thoughts on the market in general. Do you agree with Ran that we're – I think you do because, again, I heard your show, the latest show you did, and you were talking about – you were saying that we're in a raging bull market already. And you're talking about obviously the Fed pivot. You're talking about the ETF. You talked about the halving. And I think these are three things that you mentioned, the three main topics

to convince you you're in a bull market. I had James Seifart on my channel the other day from Bloomberg Intelligence in the ETF department. And that's a really great episode if anyone is doubting where we are right now,

even more so with all the kind of news that's come out over the past couple of days. But I think that we have enough evidence to suggest that it's, I would put the percentage of an ETF happening between the dates of January 8th and January 10th at about a 98% right now. You can tell from a lot of the discussions

that are being had between the applicants and the SEC themselves and the different departments within the SEC that are responsible for getting these things approved. And it's not a matter of discussion of if this is going to happen. If it was not going to happen, these conversations wouldn't be happening on a weekly, regular, daily basis. So the last kind of discussion point was, will the settlement or will the redemptions of the shares of these products be in-kind? Meaning that if I sell my share, then I get Bitcoin for it? Or is it going to be cash redemption, which means that if I sell my share of an ETF, do I get cash back instead of the underlying assets? And so it seems like we just saw the first S1 filing yesterday from Vesco saying that they're going to settle in cash, which is the preferred method from the SEC.

So it seems like no matter what, this first round of approvals that's going to happen early January is going to happen. And that is going to send the market into a... On that point, Scott, you said Pierce just replied? Yeah. Hester Peirce just replied immediately to the Gary Gensler news that we shared before, as she tends to. Commissioner Uyeda and I responded to today's denial of Coinbase's rulemaking petition. I'm clicking the link right now, and I'm going to guarantee it says we dissent. We disagree with the commission's decision. I haven't had a chance to read the entire thing, but she basically dissents on every one of these things at this point with Uyeda. By the way,

if Biden loses, she would at least very temporarily become probably the chairman of the SEC, at least very temporarily. Ron, go ahead. I was going to say, at least for the Coinbase news recently, at least folks in D.C. weren't too shocked given the SEC's posture. But I think it kind of sets up what's going to be a pretty dramatic next two months in Congress, because Congress is slated to vote on a market structure bill in the House. And the SEC is going to try to use this petition for rulemaking to say, see, the rules are clear. We don't need to have this legislation.

And they're going to try to use this petition for rulemaking to say, see, the rules are clear. We don't need to have this legislation. And they're going to try and pick off Democrats. But it seems like at least right now, I'm sorry for the echo. I'm currently on the Capitol right now. But the sentiment seems that at least a lot of the Democrats are starting to see, yeah, the rules really aren't getting clear. And the SEC is starting to lose a lot of favor in terms of just not providing those rules. And I think this is going to backfire on them pretty heavily, but it's going to be pretty rough for a while. So we'll have to see if this leads to stuff. And the last thing I want to say, I know we talked about tax earlier, keep an eye on tax issues.

That's going to be probably the next major thing that we're going to talk about in DC for staking, for accounting purposes, like staff counts and bullets and 121. I know we're a lot focusing right now on money laundering, Hamas, and that's really going to be taking the narrative a while with Liz Warren, but watch for taxes. That's going to be coming next afterwards. I mean, we even saw literally in the last year from Biden's Twitter account, I never will say that Biden tweeted because we know he's not doing it. But remember, there was that tweet that said, would we rather protect and it was like, on one side, wealthy crypto tax avoiders. And on the other side, it was like feeding homeless children. I'm

not even kidding. It was something as gratuitous and egregious as that. But they already have teased the tax debate that will be likely coming many times. Yeah. I mean, if you look at stuff like Bonk too, I mean, Bonk really hasn't come up with my conversations. I know it's kind of a recent thing, but, and DC is a little slow to the game, but that stuff doesn't help here in DC. I mean, a lot of folks just see Doge and these meme coins. They really think, see,

this is what all the industry is. It's all scam. It's all just these meme coins they really think see this is what all the industry is it's all scam it's all just these meme coins um and it's a hard combat to narrative uh go get sometimes because it's these things are so accurate they do take off yeah they are accurate so it's uh i'm a little concerned personally just with the whole block news i'm sure i'll hear about it tomorrow or next week what uh chatting with folks. Oh, man. Chris, listen, what do you think of, not of Bonk specifically, but let's talk about the fact that

Kyle obviously thinks it's just getting going. I don't want to put you on the spot. Maybe you haven't even looked at the chart. And Rand thinks, hey, I'm going to short this thing right now. You mean Bonk there? Yeah, I actually posted... Yeah, Bonk specifically. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think overall, we've still got higher to go. You know, if Bitcoin kind of takes out the,

oh, I don't know, probably like around 44,000. I think we're still looking up there toward 49,000, 50,000 before, you know, at least before we get some kind of major pullback. BALC itself has been crazy. I posted a chart and I said, if we're breaking out above that 32, then probably getting up to 42.81. But man, you know, I don't know. You know, it's too risky for me. I'm not that risky. I don't like to jump in on that kind of stuff.

But yeah, I mean, I think the market overall still has higher to go. But, you know, you can at least look for Bitcoin to break out about 44 or so and to add a little bit of confidence to that. But if it does, again, you know, that daily pivot on Bitcoin still sits up there just above 49,000. So, you know, we're on our way there, it seems like. Yeah, Bill, I see you're trying. Okay, you're good. I couldn't see if you were trying to connect, but I saw you requested.

Did you have a comment there, Bill? I'm fascinated by this whole bonk thing. Good morning, everyone. In the US, anyway. We bought some in our fund because we put some meme coins in there. And I got to say, it's the best performing asset in our fund the last few months

and you know Best performing asset of all time Bill, obviously obviously, well it depends on your time frame but yeah actually it's pretty hard to find a lot of time frames where Bach wouldn't be the best performing asset of all time right now

but I have a feeling that's going to change quickly and we don't plan to hold very long but a few things i mean are you still are you still holding yeah we've increased the position a couple of weeks ago so holy shit yeah but we're gonna get by the way if you if you want to buy a solana phone on ebay right now it's 2050 dollars that is a joke they couldn't sell those things 72 hours ago. Okay. Yeah. Anyways, I'll give you an analogy, right? So a few years ago, I bought a Tesla Model S, and I paid cash for it, which is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. Nothing. I like the car. It's, it's, it's fine. At least you didn't pay Bitcoin for it.

You had your chance. My point is going to be what I should have done is immediately bought Tesla shares, lease the car, and then use the profits to buy three Teslas for different family members. And that was just really dumb. And so I have no interest in buying the Solana phone, even though I'm super, super bullish on Solana right now. I'm just going to keep holding my Solana, and then I'll use other things. You're going to lease the phone? Exactly. You're going to lease the phone.

Thank you for listening so so you know look we're gonna get out of bonk at some point and and it's you know we we do allocate a very very small percentage of our altcoin funds to meme coins and during the run-ups they have been the best performers and during the drawdowns they've been the worst performers and the key with them is to get out and uh you know i don't really take it that seriously to be honest with you other than you know we did commit to putting a small percentage into the altcoin fund and the lps know that we do that and um they get it right and and so the other thing i was going to say is we've

been tracking it the the uptake pretty closely. It was really hard to buy Bonk until about three days ago. You had to basically use the Solana DEX and moving it around and getting the right wallet. It was really tough. And the price was still going up with very low volume. And all of a sudden, of course, the listing started. And I think I saw crypto.com listed this morning as well. And I'm sure more listings are going to come. I don't think Binance is listed yet, but I'm not sure. And at that point, I suspect there's going to happen. It's, it would be the first meme coin where it didn't happen. And then, you know, basically revert to some ridiculously low meme, uh, mean, sorry, not me, but, but you get, you get the point.

So anyway, we've been tracking it. We think it's interesting. Um, I think it's personally, yeah, we'll take the money, but I think it's more interesting to understand the dynamics of of of crowds and and how crowds wake up to something um when it on the surface makes absolutely no sense which is clearly the case here i think you just coined i think you just coined an amazing term by the way which is well either reversion to the meme or meme reversion, which I want to make a T-shirt. So good. Bill, do you have any process in your fund to try to spot these meme coins early on?

Because anyone I talk to says it's almost impossible to spot. But is there certain indicators that you look for? That's a great question i'll tell you i am very good at analyzing the tokens that have real use cases i'm bullish on render i'm bullish on rune i'm bullish on tau and i can tell you why explicitly right i think where the tech's going why ai crypto intersection and by the way this is a non-answer to your question i'm getting to your question uh all those coins are interesting when it comes to memes i am completely useless i am completely unrepresentative of the average consumer on planet earth i i know fuck all i i know fuck all about the kardashians i don't i i'm not sure i would recognize uh who's the chick

that's making a billion dollars on tour in the United States that everybody. Her name is Taylor Swift, Bill. You'd recognize her. I swear on my kids, I would not recognize Taylor Swift if I saw her right now. So I am the last person that you should ask about meme coins. But what I figured out is, is there are several people in my immediate circle that really pay attention to this stuff and are like the opposite of me from a consumer perspective. And so what I do is I talk to them and I listen to them when they ask, when they bring up these things and several of them brought up a few of them very, very early, um, you know, over the past few months. And I paid attention. I said, okay, well, this is worth, you know, a few basis points of the fund. Um, and, and again, we've already made that allocation to means we don't always use it.

We're not, you know, like we have to use it. It's there if we want it. And you know, what was a few bips turned into a couple of percent, which has now turned into multiple percent. And now it's like, okay, we really need to take profits here. So, but my, the only reason that I'm hesitating is, is because these listings are coming in fast and furious. Yeah, you need to pull a Cathie Wood and rebalance. Exactly.

Before we wrap, Scott, I just got a message from a DM from DB. He said, Murray, I've got your Bonk counter-argument. He's connecting now. DB, is your mic working? The show's connecting for me. The show's connecting for me as well. The first person to back my counter-argument against Bonk can't connect.

There you go. The Bonk crowd should be pretty lucky. I can't believe that we just censored them. You're a censorer. You censor. Yeah, he's still connecting. There's supposed to be free speech on this platform. We we're gonna do we're gonna do another space all right kyle are you up to do another space on bonk uh if it if it continues going up becomes one of the main meme coins you

come up and you have your victory run and if it if it dumps hard i think he's right either way it's happened do you um do you guys know uh what is his name there's a trader who hosts a group on telegram who has been publishing you got to get him up here um uh joe mccann joe mccann why don't you guys have joe mccann yeah joe's been the biggest bonker like i i love his group i've been it's like the only telegram group i've been because i just like joe and i think he's funny but he's been on bonk since it's like literally zero. It's unbelievable. I mean, I'm like, this is an intelligent guy. And I'm watching him and I'm going, yeah, okay.

Well, he saw something that none of us saw. And he was spot on. I mean, I'd get him in here if I could. I've just sent him an invite. We'll do another space on it next week. Or we have to do another space on it. But DB, what's your counter argument? Hey, sorry about that.

So just looking at the numbers, if you look at how many sagas were sold, and I think they said they over 10x'd, totally said there's 50,000 in total. And I believe someone said they're over 75% sold out. The current price of the airdrop is $871 871 multiply that by the amount of phones people are going to receive in the next couple days there's going to be massive sell pressure on this token and well it's a meme token no one knows what's ever going to happen with a meme token that's not that's not a that's not a meaningful market versus the volume. It can't be. You're talking about $800 times 10,000 people getting a phone. No, we're talking $30 to $40. $1.7 billion of volume right now.

Yeah, people aren't getting 50,000 phones at once, man. And most of them aren't even looking to dump. I don't think that. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but that's not going to be meaningful in the market. It's not going to make a huge impact. I agree. And it's certainly not going to zero. I'm not saying that.

But there was. What's the volume? What's the volume on one point? Seven one point seven billion dollars of volume. Oh, holy shit. Yeah. I know people that don't even like Solana, though, that are just looking to both. So it's going to be self-pressure.

Just another. You know, you know, people who are dropped on their heads. Yeah, go ahead. that are just looking to flip both. So it's going to be self-pressure. You know people who are dropped on their heads. Yeah, go ahead. Kyle, I think, Scott, you mentioned there were rumors that Solana Whales orchestrated this. Yeah, yeah. Kyle, have you heard that rumor? I told you that came from Joa. Joa, okay.

That Solana Whales orchestrated this to bring attention into the ecosystem? Well, I have a report here. Maybe on the next spaces we can actually go through it, but it's from a VC fund called Asymmetric. It's an entire report on Bonk. They say that what Bonk essentially is, it's a leverage play on the Solana ecosystem. Like I was saying earlier, it literally is our ecosystem is better than yours. And it's a Solana versus ETH play. And so that's why I don't think this thing is going down anytime soon.

If you believe in Solana this bull run, then Bonk is going to fucking fly. They just won't let it go. It's a lot of pride in this, right? And so that's why i still think this thing's going to 40 billion right and uh and we'll see if that happens but i don't think there's a lot of pride in bunk there's also a lot of liquidity it has brought insane liquidity i mean arguably tvl into the solana ecosystem which would make sense that uh they would want that i mean now that it's trading on coinbase and stuff it it matters less, I guess, because

people can trade it on a centralized platform. But what this was doing when it was not even available on decentralized websites and exchanges for the ecosystem is insane. I mean, Kyle's right. Scott, have you ever bought a Bonk? Or do you own any Bonk?

No, I don't own Bonk. Man, look, the way you're speaking, I'm having my doubts. I don't know, man no i don't own bonk man look the way you're speaking i'm having my doubts i wouldn't have until three days ago like everyone else here i i wouldn't even have spent the three minutes to learn how to go buy it right because like i said you had to go do it on a deck so it was relatively a little insulted by the way you don't own bonk i just want to be very well i'm mad because i'm mad because I should have owned Bonk. I could have followed Joe McCann all those years. I mean, all those days telling us to buy Bonk.

No, listen, I definitely, yeah. And to be clear. I'm not mad that I missed out because it's not something. You know what? I always tell the story that when, you know, all of us remember the early Doge cycles where you traded against Bitcoin and it went from 15 or 20 sats up to 120 to 180. You sold it, you waited six months, you bought it again. And you just did that over and over again. We made a ton of money, you know. But never in my life did I think, hey, Doge is going to get, is going to be on Saturday Night Live with Elon Musk

and it'll be 70 cents. We were talking about fractions of a penny. And one day my wife was like, so like, go back and do the math. How much, you know, you would have if you had just held all that Doge, which I would never do. I don't regret it, but it would have been like 40 or $50 million worth of Doge or something at the time. Yeah. Chris Inks is here. Chris is the one who like Chris Inks used to have at the very beginning when I first got into crypto, you had a Trello group, right? Not even a Discord or anything. They were Trello cards with setups for altcoins. And you wrote a Trello card that says, you want to get rich? This is how you get rich.

The exact words, I'll never forget it. And it showed me the Doge cycle. And we traded it over and over and over again. But yeah, $40 or $50 million. That would have been nice, I guess. Tom, Bill? Tom, you requested, do you have anything to add on this point? Hey, good morning. Yeah, just jumping in on the Doge conversation. Please be bearish.

Please be bearish. Well, I was looking at it i just woke up so i'm getting back into it but yesterday i did notice that funding on bonk was like minus 0.5 percent or something i've never really even seen they get 288 288 now holy yeah that's that's because it ran oh my um well what i'm looking at when i see that is probably something we all don't want to hear but that it might have some more upside unfortunately um those those shorts have to unwind and when they do you know we saw this with pepe just a year ago really the same scenario got listed on spawn some places really strong rally and then these giant fundings came in we did see

it continue a little bit higher but then i think uh the top wasn't too far away so i'm watching that real one big squeeze so one big squeeze higher to liquidate all the shorts and then but this has been happening this has been happening the whole time so like the entire run-up for the last 60 days everyone's been shorting bonk everyone everyone's been shorting it the whole time. This funding rate has always been negative. I think when you, Chris, negative 5

was probably two weeks ago or something like that. But now it's negative 288. I literally just covered this in the video that's going live in two minutes. I talk about all the funding rates and the amount of shorts that are out there. But yeah i agree i agree tom what i'm looking for next though is for at some point seeing a move and then that funding rate turning positive because i still remember

that from pepe's run it was so negative it flipped positive i think it still went up a little bit like this is a hard part people are trying to time the top here. It's going to be a dangerous game. You're likely to get liquidated. Honestly, a long or a short right now. Yeah, it's choppy right now. Sideways. Mario, I got to run and I know you do too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Definitely got to run if we're talking about Bonk. But look, we'll do another space on this again whether it's going to pump more or dump. And if it dumps, Bill, you have to join. Kyle, you have to join. And Ryan will obviously join. And then I'm going to have one hell of a space. And if it pumps, Scott, you run the show.

I will not be here if it pumps. But that's going to wrap it for today. Sounds amazing. You're a big pussy. All right, guys. See you guys. We've got to wrap right now. Bye, everyone.

Thanks, everyone. Bye.