The Wolf Of All Streets - BTC 38k & ALTs Exploding | JP MORGAN: ‘Rally Overdone’ | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Crypto Town Hall is a daily X Spaces hosted by Scott Melker, Ran Neuner & Mario Nawfal. Every day we discuss the latest news in crypto and bring the biggest names in the space to share their insight. ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. USE CODE ‘2MONTHSOFF’ WHEN VISITING MY LINK.  👉 https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/    ►► OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $10,000!  👉  https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL  - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets    Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor.  Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Mario, can I break protocol and ask you how you're doing first? Well, I'm just fixing that shitty-ass title. Look at how much better it's going to be. Watch. Yeah. I can't wait. I mean, I'm literally going to just hold my breath until I see it. You're going to love this.

So that's not finished. You're going to see first change. You're going to love this so that's not finished you're gonna see first change uh i love this watch rally so so good at this man okay it doesn't fit good job thank you thank you for uh i'm gonna hold on hold on hold on watch watch the title now. Okay. Why isn't it showing? Oh, yeah. We did our counter-imitator. Great.

Did you see JP Morgan as well? Yeah, I saw JP Morgan. And I literally was just tweeting about ETH. And then we saw the breaking news that iShares has filed for an Ethereum spot ETF or has registered in Delaware, which is what BlackRock iShares did seven days before filing for the Bitcoin spot ETF. You'll see that Ethereum is now trading over $2,000. I love. Holy shit. Yeah.

But I literally did a whole stream on it this morning. Before I even saw that, I was tweeting that Ethereum, this like Ethereum hatred and the fact that it's lagging against Bitcoin is so overdone that I'm starting to feel really, really optimistic about Bitcoin here. Did you see the analysis by JP Morgan? I read the title

and I moved on with my life. I mean, I tend to. It's a good answer. You can't just move on. You've got to look at both sides. I really think it's a really good answer. I don't necessarily disagree. I mean, listen, we're obviously sort of, you know, by a lot of indicators, things are overheating right now.

But sure, then you just buy the next dip and keep writing. But now you have to send me the actual article and i have to like read words no i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna read it as i want to focus on in the in the space after you guys uh do the the happy dance but what indicators are showing that we're we're i just mean a lot of things are are you know hitting sort of overbought levels and hitting key areas of resistance and stuff but none of that really uh worries me i think you know uh the crypto market bitcoin especially it's just in by the dip mode i'm not looking to short anything right i'm just looking to accumulate when the opportunities come what's up rand you'd be destroyed if you're shorted that's what people did earlier on today and as

they just as they shorted they got wicked out at 238 438 5 on the finance perpetual you can't short this market it's too you'll get hunted in 10 seconds flat in 38 000 it is coming into a very very key level here in my opinion you know if you look back we're making 18 month highs on bitcoin and 38k was the level where the luna breakdown. So, you know, kind of an area I would imagine that a lot of people are looking to at least take partial profits, scale out, looking for some consolidation, but things don't generally work out how you think they will.

There are a lot of signs of fluff, of frost. A lot of frosty signs right now, like Pepe, the meme coins are up a lot, and that usually happens towards the end of a little cycle if you look at the total leverage on all altcoins excluding bitcoin and eth we haven't been anywhere near there since april the last time we were at these levels was april 2022 just so you get an idea of um when the last time this happened um we we so that's just some of the funding rates i mean

if you look at funding rates now they are ridiculous that's why they are i haven't seen funding rates like this for years like literally i think there's a difference between trying to short this and taking some profit on these massive moves which i think is a rational thing for people to be doing especially at all points i mean the thing is i agree with your point about pepe but when pepe is still moving less than you know larger mid-cap layer ones that doesn't signal for me yet on the meme coins it's for me the the real gratuitous tops are when the meme coins are running alone you know and doing like these 2x 3x moves but i i mean i agree i would always. We've got Peter here,

literally like the god king of technical analysis. If we're going to talk about this, we've got to get Peter involved. We should talk about, we must talk about the ETH ETF. Yeah, we were just talking about it. We have James.

I want to get to that one first, James. With James Scott, you could do the tech analysis. Just one thing, you're talking about Scott, where you could do the tech analysis. Just one thing, you're talking about meme coins. Are meme coins starting to explode as well? Because I'll see a bit of a red flag there. I mean, I've seen the bunk chart. So I look at two charts because, you know,

there's one thing about Doge running because Doge is like a, you know, I don't know what the market cap is, but it's a huge market cap coin, $6 billion or whatever else. And then you've got got baby meme coins. Let me just give you some perspective, Mario, because I know you don't really follow these meme coins. Bunk has gone from

0,001. Let me actually just give it to you in percent. Just ignore the zeros. There's just too many zeros. It's done 1,000%. It's done 10x in the last, since the 29th of October. Okay, you're right then. I just was looking at Pepe when you mentioned it. But if the smaller ones, yeah, that's a sign.

Yeah, that plus the fact that there's more leverage now on altcoins than there has ever been. Let me actually give you the levels. Let me give you the levels. The last time that we had this much leverage on all altcoins was briefly on the 28th of March 2022. Briefly, just for a couple of seconds there. And before that, 29th of November, 2021, that was the last time we had this much leverage on all the altcoins. So there's a lot of frosty altcoin, late last minute altcoin buyers in there.

Ran, do you think though that that means like we get a flush of the ones that have run and then once the flush happens, you start to look? Because like I said, I'm kind of mentally in like, like if there's a big dip it would be a buying opportunity but uh do you disagree with that based on those metrics i think in these cycles you're going to get six to seven uh pullbacks of you know 20 20 to 35 plus and i think that you know the yes you need them i think they're healthy because otherwise people just get hurt you know otherwise people just keep degening and degening i think we haven't had a 20 you know one of those 20 plus um uh pullbacks yet and i think it's going to come and that's and i think that that's the opportunity for people to catch the bus

and if you miss the bus that's your's your opportunity to get onto the next bus. So I wouldn't be buying now. I wouldn't be buying any altcoins now. I think that it's frothy. It's frothy. It's way, way, way too frothy. But... Are you selling any now?

Are you selling any now? I would sell if I... Anything that I'm trading and I want to get out of, probably now is a good time to start thinking of getting out of probably now is a good time to start like thinking of getting out of them but mainly my altcoin portfolio is a portfolio which I'm which I'm holding if you know what I mean like I'm holding the other thing yeah the other thing is

remember remember now with this ETF filing there's going to be a lot of money flowing into ETH and with a lot of money flowing into ETH and ETH big coins, small coins are going to get smashed. So you can even see that, for example, Solana just went from $48, it's back at $46.50. And that just happened just because of the ETH ETF announcement. But at the same time, you take a token like Lido, which is up from $190 to $225, because money is now flowing into the ETH narrative. And it's flowing, where is it flowing from? It's not flowing from Bitcoin.

It's flowing from all the other altcoins. So you're going to see a bit of a shift in altcoins at the moment. Scott, did you want to go into the ETF discussion or tech analysis first? Either is fine. Let's just ask Peter. I would just love to hear your thoughts on this Bitcoin move, because tapping 38,000 for a lot of people seems very significant for the reasons i sort of described before uh yeah you know i i put out a couple tweets this morning where i got into the whole thing of you know how do you target moves

i mean with charge you can determine certain targets and there are rules to do that i i put out two tweets that laid out you know what we have as upside targets as a result of the head and shoulders bottom and rectangle continuation that have happened here since you know summer 22 and you know we've met we've met some of these targets we met them today i took some money off the table today at $37,798. But we have to remember, targets are not tops. The T in targets does not mean the T in tops. Markets can go wherever they want. You have to look at Bitcoin and have to remember that when we measure off the fall lows from 22, we've only had a 2.5x move in Bitcoin from the bottom.

A 2.5x move in Bitcoin is chump change. And so the idea of coming in here and trying to get smart and pick a top from the standpoint of shorting, I mean, maybe do it if you're trading a 10-minute timescale or something. But I only want to be a buyer from here on out, because if you look at Bitcoin going back 14 years, there's a possibility where we have now entered the fifth of five parabolic advances in Bitcoin. To me, Bitcoin is ruled by parabolic advances. There's a chance we're in the fifth parabolic advance in the history of Bitcoin. You know, I only want to trade it from the long side.

So, yeah, you take some profits off if you're a little bit overweighted. For me, this is Bitcoin. Bitcoin is crypto. Crypto is Bitcoin. You know, people that want to play around with eth that's kind of like dating your sister in my opinion but you know yeah um take some money off the table but there's a chance the bitcoin move is just getting cooking peter is a smart man he is yeah that's what i'm saying it's like full dip buy mode would you, it's shorting, Dave Weisberger, you're here.

Shorting this, as he likes to say, is like picking up pennies in front of a steamroller, right, Dave? You betcha. I mean, look. Why, Dave? Why, why? Is it just because it's going up? What's a valid reason, Dave, on why this is the start of a parabolic move? Yeah, well, the start is a bit strong, but could be is certainly it's certainly on the table. I mean, it's all about risk reward if you're a trader. And when you see moves that are grinding higher, climbing a wall of worry with so many of the people who are the lead speculators in the space being negative. I mean, there have been people who've been bearish Bitcoin every $1,000 dating back to 25. And it's been much

slower. You look at them and let the charges tell you if they think I'm wrong. But every time you see a move that's slow and grinding higher, that's what the S&P did. Bitcoin feels to me like the S&P towards the end of 2009, early 2010, when it was going relentlessly higher up the bottom. And people were still saying this can't be we were in the great reset, everything is a disaster, etc. And it kept rising. Well, history shows I mean, a decade, basically almost uninterrupted advance. Bitcoin doesn't act like that because Bitcoin, at the end of the day, is an option, right? It is either going to replace gold and go beyond it, which is more than 10x from here. It's more like 15 to 20x. Or it's going to kind of settle into a niche product.

And so I don't really see a huge downside, but the asymmetric upside is huge. The S&P was never like that. No one ever looked at the stock market and said, oh my God, the stock market is 20 times undervalued. But yet there are 75% of Bitcoin holders that aren't selling because they think it's 10 to 20 times undervalued. David Steinberg But Dave, so this is a long term reason on why Bitcoin would do great. But I'm saying- Dave Chlopas It's a supply-demand dynamic, right?

When you take that much supply of an asset off the table for people who aren't going to sell based on these kinds of moves, and you couple that with a grinding higher, which indicates spot market buying, not derivative, flush, you know, D-gen tops, what eventually happens is at some point you'll get FOMO. Now, FOMO is what triggers the parabolic event. It may or may not happen now, but shorting in front of a potential FOMO move is really, really difficult. Fair, but hasn't that – so the supply shock hasn't already been priced in. Let me say what JP Morgan says. I'm just going to mute you.

In the meantime, Dave, while I read out what they said, I'm not sure if you can fix your mic because there is an echo and you don't sound that perfect. The argument seems, as JP Morgan analyst, the argument seems unconvincing about the Bitcoin halving. As a Bitcoin halving event and its effects are predictable and in our opinion as well, are well factored to the price. For example, looking at the Bitcoin production costs and the halving event using current hash rates and difficulty would suggest that the production cost would rise from 21K currently to around 43K. However, the current price of about 35K, now we're at 38 now, would be consistent with a 20% drop in the hash rate as miners in higher cost locations or with less efficient hardware exit the market, which seems reasonable to us. This suggests that the halving event could already be largely priced in. Your thoughts, Dave? I'm trying to get toward the outside to get

my mic better. But the fact is, the biggest thing in the halving rate is a very, very big change. Right now, Bitcoin has an inflation rate that's equivalent to gold more or less and very similar to the target inflation rate of the Fed. This having for the first time takes the Bitcoin inflation rate down to half of that. That is a fundamental driver. That's one of the reasons you see people like Stanley Druckenmiller starting to talk about Bitcoin, go along with Paul Tudor Jones and Larry Fink, etc. Never forget, it's a tiny, tiny market. And what we could be seeing is toes

in the water from large pools of capital just relentlessly buying spot, slowly, patiently, and not trying to get ahead of themselves. We haven't seen that expected of Excel. That's all I'm trying to say. I want to get other thoughts on this. Does anyone disagree with Dave's take?

Does anyone agree with JP Morgan? They also talk about the ETF being priced in and saying that that's an important one. Actually, James, I want to go to you on this one. So everyone's talking about the ETF being the catalyst. Well, Bitcoin ETFs already exist in Canada and Europe. And they've got it. I didn't know this. They've got a little interest from investors since they launched in Canada and Europe. Is that true? And why would the US be

different, James? I wouldn't say little interest, but they're some of the largest ETFs in Canada. So I definitely wouldn't say the little interest. And in Europe, they are also not that big, but the European market isn't that big either. So how do they compare to other ETFs in Europe? They're not huge, but there's a lot of them out there and there's a lot that go across like the uh landscape like they don't just have bitcoin i mean they had ft token uh etfs in europe trading in switzerland so i think point i think point point three percent of etf, the last time I checked, 0.3% of ETF funds were allocated in Europe to a Bitcoin fund and 0.6% were in Canada. So yeah, I did that kind of like exiting the bear market. So I think just to give you an idea, it was way under 1%.

Yeah, in Canada, it's right around 1%. Europe, I'm not 100% certain. I haven't analyzed it that closely. But they are, Europe is just a completely different market in the way the ETF market is set up. There's way less retail and advisors using ETFs in Europe when compared to the US and even compared to Canada. So Canada is a more apt comparison to what type of demand we could see. Like if we're talking about demand here,

like I like to use the gold ETF, like to give you an idea of like what type of asset levels we're talking about. Gold ETFs in the US, their total assets are right around 100 billion. So all gold ETFs in the US have 100 billion assets. So we're not talking like some insane. And I think that's an upper level years down the line of where you could see some of these ETFs get to in aggregate as an asset level. Obviously, that doesn't include some parabolic price move like you guys were just talking about. But talking about flows wise, that's probably where things are, would be like a, that would be extremely successful launch. Five years down the road. I'll read to you what the, James, I'll let you know what JP Morgan says.

I would love to get more thoughts on this. I see Bill is up and Peter has his hand up. First, instead of some, and I'll quote exactly what the analyst said. Instead of fresh capital, that's in their opinion. Instead of fresh capital entering the crypto industry to be invested in the ETFs, we see a more likely scenario exiting existing capital, shifting from existing Bitcoin products, such as Grayscale, Bitcoin future ETFs and publicly listed Bitcoin mining companies into the spot ETFs. So we're just seeing a recycling of money rather than more money coming in.

And they see more money coming out and so net outflows and when the etfs launch when i get your thoughts peter bill yeah i mean uh that probably won't make me real popular but you know i've always believed and experienced that markets are discounting for have discounting functionality. Markets discount events before the events occur. We don't wait for some bullish news and all of a sudden I'll decide to buy. Things get discounted. Whether there's been a formally approved ETF in the United States or not, it's regardless. So I personally think the whole halving and the whole ETF thing are all overstated.

So you think they've all been priced in, Peter? Pretty much. Pretty much. I just think Bitcoin is a bull market because of other reasons. I was just going to say, but note that Peter is not saying that that means that price isn't going up. True. Do you think that an ETH ETF is going to rise? I was just going to say, I think the narrative is totally different for Ethereum

than it is for Bitcoin. Because Bitcoin doesn't really need the marketing. And for Ethereum, having ETF news via BlackRock is going to light a fire under the awareness for vehicles for investing in Ethereum. I also think that the halving is not the primary reason for the price going up. And I think it's been liquidity cycles that happen to coincide with, and I've heard others talk about this,

so I don't think I invented the idea, but I've heard others say that liquidity cycles happen to coincide with having cycles. And I think that's right. And I think that what we're seeing now is, yes, there is a little bit of news here that is definitely creating a pump. But I think the real opportunity here is looking for credit tightening that's going to come. And I do think that we could see a dip in Bitcoin post ETF launch as people reallocate and finally get out of grayscale. Now that the also now that the discount window is closing as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see outflows out of grayscale, some inflows into into BlackRock, but maybe maybe net zero initially. And then, you know, if we really do get the liquidity pump that I think is coming with the bank failures and everything else, I think I think Ethereum and Bitcoin and Solana are going to pump super, super hard. And I think a lot of this is going to

narrative is going to go to the having just because the date is what it is. And it's on the calendar. We can say this is exactly when it's going to happen. And it's very easy to point to it. But if you really do the work, I think it's a little different. But look, it's all up to the right. As I've been telling you all for for the last year, I've been super bullish because of the fact that I think we bottomed on on global liquidity last fall. And I've been buying ever since. Yeah, Mario, you may remember and ran, obviously, when we had Raul on Raul Powell, he made the same argument bill that you're making, right, that we have these sort of consistent four year cycles in liquidity, and that the having happens to line up. And then he and I were discussing it also kind of came to the conclusion

that the United States presidential cycle also fits exactly into that. So it's these sort of four year cycles that cause this incredible bullishness in that that particular year. Monetizing the debt is the single biggest pump for have to be pumped into the U.S. system to remonetize this debt over the next 18 months on a scale. And that's not just the federal debt, right? He also said that he was making the point that it's also a cycle for a lot of the corporate debt as a result of that. Sure, sure. As it relates to crypto prices, I'm specifically talking about government debt. But yes, that's right. I mean, major have a major, major consumer, business, and government debt problem in this country. I mean, of epic proportions.

Peter, did you ever end up? I thought I saw somebody's hand go up. No, I was just completely agreeing with what was just said. Does anyone – all right, guys. Does anyone – but Peter, Peter, I want Scott. Anyone disagree with the analysis on stage right now? Is there anyone that thinks that this rally

is already too frothy and the pullback is needed in the markets? Or is everyone just... I think we do agree with that. I think we just think that you buy the dip. It's not like the top. Yeah, but there's a difference between a dip and a dip in a raging bull market

and a dip and a stagnation over the next few months in no bull market. No, you're going to get a 25% dip at some point on Bitcoin. It's going to drag the old coins down much more. It's going to shake out the leverage. And we're going to start again. It happens every single time. When it happens, don't be surprised. It's probably going to happen quite soon. I mean, when I say quite soon,

it could happen today, tomorrow. It could happen in a week. It could happen in a month, but it's going to happen pretty soon because the markets are getting frothy. And when the markets get this frothy, that's when it happens. That's when it happens. Well, if you're a good trader like Ryan, I think Ryan, what, you're selling now, buying, what's your strategy? No, as I said, I'm getting rid of any token that I have that is not part of my, you know, like I'm holding a lot of what I think is garbage from the old cycle, which I've been looking for an opportunity to get out of. And this is a perfect opportunity to get out. In terms of the rest of my stuff, the rest of my stuff is very much long-term holds. And for the long-term holds, you know, I'm in it for a couple of cycles. So this doesn't really matter to me that there's

a pump now. It's nice to watch, but it's certainly not something that I'm going to be, you know, let's take, for example, Solana. Like I think Solana does a 10X in the cycle. So great. So we're pumping to 48 bucks. I think solana goes to 400 bucks i'm not taking any profits now i'm just going to chill and wait and and let's talk again at the end of the cycle so i want to the reason i've asked you about this is i wanted to to talk about the sponsor which is nine inch so we all know about one inch there's nine inch we've just pinned it above so they they're designed to be the number one decks and yield farming farming platform for meme coins now i know nothing about meme coins are probably the number one DEX and yield farming platform for meme coins.

Now, I know nothing about meme coins. It's probably the worst one to discuss about meme coins, but this is their focus. So if you're someone that enjoys the next doink or dick butts or whatever coin that's launching, check out 9inch. They're already the mainstream DEX for PulseChain and Ethereum. I'm going to actually check it out today. So it's a highly optimized DEX. I thought since you love NFfts you would have loved the the meme coins your speaker i'm co-host you know what co-hosts have the ability to press a

beautiful button called remove speaker now you might block me on whatsapp if i do it but it's worth the cost so everyone wants to wants to check out. If I can interrupt the fun and frivolity here and ask. Sure, let's interrupt our sponsor, Andrew. It's all good. We're sending an invoice. Go ahead. I wanted to make kind of a macro point a return to normalcy for Bitcoin's price. And what do I mean by that?

Well, if you look back to the Bitcoin conference in 2022, which I believe was in April, May timeframe, Bitcoin was right around 42, 45, 47 during that entire week. You know, there was the release of the massive Bitcoin bull in Miami, the statue, right? There was, it was a kind of a different time. FTX still exists. And really right after that time period, within six months, it felt like the bottom fell out of the entire industry, right? FTX just absolutely cratered Ponzi scheme, DCG, Genesis, 3AC, everything smoldered, right? And we went down to 15, even to 13. This feels like all of that, a large portion of that has washed its way out of the industry. And as the leader of the space, Bitcoin has kind of returned to some normalcy in a way that says, OK, we don't see event, uh, ahead of us. I I'm just interested in what. Andrew, you're right. I mean, that's what I was saying earlier is that this is the reversion back to the pre Luna price to that exact moment,

right? This was the price of Bitcoin 38,000 when it, when the bottom fell out right after that conference, which by the way, you know, that was a 35,000 person conference that turned into a sub 10,000 person conference a year later. Yep.

Yep. Right. And I think that that's a, I think that that like he's zooming out and not taking a look at the chart. It interestingly lines up with the chart, but I think that's a very rational view on exactly what this is. This is the price of Bitcoin before all of it. Yeah. And you, you add to the reality that, um, macro, right? You have BlackRock. BlackRock doesn't create an ETF and then hope it doesn't just suck and nobody cares, right? That's not how they do business as a $9 trillion asset-based company. Also, they don't file for an Ethereum spot ETF and hope it doesn't just stink. Right. So there are from a macro standpoint, I might disagree just a bit about thinking that those things are completely priced in. And it's really not that big a deal. It's not that big a deal when it's a canada company or a european company

i mean heck in canada bitcoin was darn near outlawed and social stuff going on out there i would think canadians are almost afraid of bitcoin um but here in the united states nine trillion blackrock you know you i i'd have a hard time underestimating what the best way to look at potentially what BlackRock is potentially doing here. Go look at when they launched their gold ETF. What happened over the next decade, two decades almost. It's pretty remarkable. It's pretty remarkable. So, just my thoughts.

Andrew, it's not just the name yeah i agree with you and you know we've discussed this right but it's not just the name blackrock i 100 have been making the same point that they have this aom lined up for the approval they're not going to let this fall flat and just get you know 10 million in aom the day that launches no way but i think it's also really notable even though we repeat it over and over again, that Larry Fink is literally on the Bitcoin roadshow right now. Right. It's not just like BlackRock is applying. You have Larry Fink out there talking about flight to quality and Bitcoin and all of crypto and talking about tokenization of all things. And this isn't just a passive filing, to your point i think they're really putting their weight behind it yeah isn't it interesting that larry fink has been mentioning crypto on this road show and now we find out they've got a spot e-filing and anyone who read their anyone who read their annual investor letter last year should not be surprised by this because he literally there's a huge section that's on the future tokenization of assets and we already saw blackrock you know that j on jb morgan at uh on jb morgan onyx their

private blockchain obviously that they tokenized a money market fund that blackrock sent to barclays this is really happening listen that doesn't mean that that value will accrue to the price of bitcoin any of it but right the adoption is happening longer term that's why i said macro longer term it's hard to ignore blackrock's involvement larry fink going on everybody's shows the guy does not have to do that i mean absolutely does not have to do that and and then on top of that, you've got these, you know, these, these Bitcoin and ETH pieces of architecture that are going to kind of come to market. And oh, by the way, you know, three weeks ago, you've got Gary Gensler, you know, he's being, you know, he's being interviewed, and he's kind of like, Oh, you know what, these spot Bitcoin ETFs are,

you know, what's what's on the agenda, they're going to be, you know, securities that are that are, you know, this is the right way to do it, basically, is what he said. Right. So he just said that FTX could be relaunched, by the way. Yeah, I mean, you know, writing we could all trade unregistered securities. Thanks, Gary. Jeff, Jeff, can I ask you another question? Are you there, Jeff? Jeff, are I ask you another question? Are you there, Jeff? Jeff, are you there? All right, we'll wait for Jeff to come in. Let's go to Bill and Stephen.

No, no, Jeff Roberts. So just two quick points. Sorry, I don't know if my Twitter is good. We can hear you. We can hear you, yeah. So I've just removed you. I'll bring you back up. Go ahead, Bill and then Stephen. Yeah, I've got to head out to my staff meeting. you a bit it's a little yeah so i've just removed you i'll bring you back up yeah go ahead uh bill and then steven yeah i've got to head out to my staff meeting so so two quick points before i

head out i think that if you just to kind of agree with andrew if you look at the last cycle right um we topped out i think it was what 69 000 68 000 depending on the exchange and i my feeling is is that it had it not been for the uh china i the China air quotes here, a mining ban, it's quite possible that we were headed to high 80s, low 90s in the last cycle. And, you know, that put the retail side, which is really the driver here, right, at the end of the day on Celsius and FTX. And it seems to me that, you know, the kind of the happy mean for where Bitcoin wanted to be, you know, at the end of that last cycle was probably in the 35 to 40k range ironically we we we we actually came to a similar conclusion as as andrew i think he i think we just lost him but but um but yeah i i think that uh you know just it also just goes to prove that bitcoin is and crypto is still susceptible if you care but mostly about price to uh to that sentiment and to that news i think that's going to become less and less true

for Bitcoin in particular by the end of the next cycle, because it will be in so many stable hands that I do think that the swings that come from price movements like we saw with China and Celsius in particular are less likely to have such a dramatic impact on price as they did this past time around. James, can I ask you a question? You already touched on it, but can you tell us more about the Bitcoin, sorry, the ETH body TF, what that would mean for the markets and what we can realistically expect? And Jeff, by the way, if you can hear me, Jeff, please do unmute. Otherwise, I won't talk to you.

James, go ahead. Yeah, so all we know, there's already five spot ETH filings that are out there. We know their deadlines because they already filed their 19B4s. They already went through this process of applying to the SEC. Their deadlines are at the end of May.

So that's where we were standing before this morning. The BlackRock filing, there's no way to know exactly what it means. All we know is that BlackRock registered their Bitcoin trust seven days before we caught wind of it on the SEC website on around June 15th. So assuming this isn't somehow like an elaborate hopes um blackrock is basically just registering this entity in delaware and are likely going to file a spot eptf um to be clear like this is kind of expected in my eyes like i always expected them to do this in the next couple of months because like i said there's already five filers out there i don't think it's as urgent time wise because the sec seems to be set on this um agenda of allowing everyone to launch around the same time so blackrock was going to have to file at some point in the next couple

of months for an ethereum etf um so i'm just waiting to see when the sec when blackrock actually files with the sec um and what happens what happens in exchange once they file, how long does it take? How important is it for the markets? Because already ETH is above 2K as we speak. Yeah, I mean, it rocketed off of like 1900 this morning. This was always expected to me, so I'm not really sure

as far as what it means to markets. BlackRock, obviously, is stuff you've been talking about in relation to the Bitcoin ETF. They're the largest asset manager in the world. So them going in here is obviously impactful to the underlying markets. That said, we're looking at a minimum, like I said, late May is likely the first time

we can see these things approved. And there's no guarantee it could be approved. Gary has repeatedly said he might have issues with the staking side of Ethereum. It's not the same as Bitcoin. And also, we don't have the Bitcoin ETFs yet, right? So assuming the whole process here has been CME futures, futures ETFs, and now potentially spot. So assuming we get spot Bitcoin before, I don't know, at some point, like we're calling for by January, then all of a sudden, all that lines up for the potential for ethereum spot to be um approved but again ethereum is different with all the staking

protocols and the way that that the the blockchain works for ethereum versus bitcoin i could see gary trying to push that but again i the way i'm viewing it is i think that gary and the sec are kind of pushing bitcoin and ethereum to one side and not allowing anything else to go through. So I think my base case is that we could have an ETF by the end of May. Yeah, Mario. Yeah. But imagine an Ethereum spot ETF where the filer, after approval where the filer is allowed to stake

and gain yield on the holdings. Imagine that. Yes. Jeff, are you there? Is it working now? I give up, Jeff. I tried my best, brought you down and back up. James, I've got a question for you.

In terms of the wins, the Ripple and Grayscale wins, I think are one of the catalysts to get us to where we are today. Oh, you're back, Jeff. Perfect. You can hear me. I had to take an emergency call. Go ahead, Mario. Okay.

You're good now? I'm all good. Yep. Yeah, cool, cool. So JP Morgan was also talking. I love their analysis an emergency call. Go ahead, Mario. Okay. You're good now? I'm all good. Yep. Yeah, cool, cool. So JP Morgan was also talking. I love their analysis, their report, which is not that bullish. And they're talking about the Ripple and Grayscale cases. And the wins, in their opinion, the SEC losses, does not mean that crypto regulation is going to ease in the future.

I'll read out a direct quote from the report that I wrote down. It is far from clear that the regulatory tightening of the crypto industry will lessen significantly going forward, given how unregulated this industry is. US crypto industry regulations are still pending, and we do not believe US lawmakers would shift their stance because of the above two legal cases, especially with the memories from the FTX fraud still fresh. Your thoughts on this, Jeff, and could that have an impact on the market if JP Morgan is right? Yeah, I mean, I think the reality is, I mean, you have to look at Gensler as sort of an agent to the White House. The White House staff is still implacably against crypto. They're going to fight it on every front.

They've lost the ETF one, but they're still rampantly hostile to the rest of it. So, you know, until there's a change in administrative personnel, I don't think the regulatory thing has changed that much. The ripple case, too, is sort of precarious. That win could be temporary. The one clear win is the grayscale one. But otherwise, you know, I don't see a generally, like, new tone from the White House or from the SEC. Nothing's going to change until after the next election, in my opinion. David, do you have anything to add? change until after the next election in my opinion david you yeah i mean i keep saying this i totally agree i do i do agree with that analysis i mean at the end shoot hold on i can hear you man i couldn't hear me i hear you i yeah i just i just said shit because i didn't want you to agree, but I know you've said this already before.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, the Ripple ruling is ripe to be overturned on appeal. It's great when we're in the echo chamber to talk about the Torres doctrine. But, you know, Jeff nails it. At the end of the day, every four years, the world changes. Gensler is not going anywhere for the next year. He's following marching orders and regulatory. You know, if it becomes a forefront issue, which I think what's going on in the world, we may actually get lucky that crypto actually remains on the back burner for the next year,

that the Ripple decision has the ability to go to the Second Circuit. If it gets upheld on appeal, I think that's going to be the winning moment for the ripple decision. But at the end of the day, what we've already seen is the SEC is not backing down. The dogs are circling. And I do think that what we're seeing with Elizabeth Warren gaining more power domestically, if Biden somehow wins and stays president for another five years in total, it's not good for what the regulatory outlook is for the crypto industry. Stephen, thoughts? While Stephen jumping on, make sure anyone...

Go ahead, Stephen. Yeah, we can hear you, man. Yeah, I mean, I think what the SEC is doing, they're fighting these cases, but what you have is this legislation that has no safe harbor that's actually codifying this absurd morphing

of decentralization, and they're putting that into the legislation. So what they're fighting for in the courts, they're actually backdooring in the legislation, and they're going to have the courts they're actually backdooring in the legislation and they're going to have the ability to just you know he becomes the king and he says you're a security you're not well he's going to basically say everything's a security right and he'll and it'll be codified and like nobody's kind of really paying attention to that and you know

loomis is like with all due respect to her she seems like she's you know, Loomis is like, with all due respect to her, she seems like she's, you know, a friend to the industry. Who's a friend to the industry? Who are you talking about? The Senator Loomis, I would say. In other words, in terms of sponsoring the bill, look, you know. Oh, yeah, that new bill. Yeah, that new bill, I read it in the agenda. Scott, did you see that bill that Stephen's referring to?

Hold on, wait. We've got Stephen, Stephen, now we've got you in our net. So there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide to anymore. I've been reading a lot of articles that you've been talking about Ethereum. The articles have been pretty vague. Is there anything we should know about? Yeah, we've seen you praising Ethereum and...

We're switching topics. First of all, let me be clear. I'm not... The articles may say what they say in terms of Ethereum. This is not a conversation about me and Ethereum, the protocol. So I'm not anti-Ethereum.

I put my heart, blood, sweat, and tears into Ethereum. And I think everybody knows the contributions I've made to that. It's about specific people. If you have questions about that, I can answer that. We're leading Ethereum.

Yeah, tell me, tell me. So, Mario, last time on iSpaces, you were asking a very good question. You were asking about, you know, when did they, Vitalik and Joe, when did they start distancing themselves from me? And when did they start discrediting my role? And the answer to that question was, like, mid-2017. And then when I got prosecuteduted for everybody who doesn't know we proved that there was multiple agencies that fabricated a crime to prosecute me that was late 2019 so that was two and a half years before that

um now you're asking why um i want to make sure because I know how everybody knows the whole story so... Imagine they don't so maybe answer it in a way that kind of sums up the story briefly for people that don't know. So I was involved in the very early days of Ethereum from literally the very first month. I created the utility token and the ICO for Ethereum. And then I also, and that was in 2014. And then in 2015, Vitalik called me. And we're actually, everybody should know, we're going to be dropping this. It was a three-hour conversation.

They were going under. So he asked me to restructure the entire Ethereum Foundation to save it. And I've got the whole thing recorded. I'm going to drop it. We're doing it as an NFT free. But everybody can have it. When are you dropping it, Stephen? In like the next four or five days.

Oh, shit. It's like a Funkmaster Flex mixtape in the 90s. Let's get on the story. Let's get on the story. I think it's going to wake up a lot of people in terms of...

This isn't a personal thing, but it's going to wake up lot of people in terms of you know like this is not about you know like this isn't a personal thing right um but it's it's going to wake up a lot of people in terms of you know what really happened back there like people can make their own decision i've got it recorded right and so you can see like what did italic what did he know what did joe know and you know so it's a it's kind of a piece of history but it'll also give you some perspective on what was really happening back then. Now you can fast forward. And I'm going to just flat out say, you know, there was, you know, a lot of people have heard about this ETHgate where there's, you know, ETH got this free pass from the SEC,

where the SEC came up with this argument that actually took my utility token argument and somehow concocted it into something was a security and it's no longer a security because it's decentralized now. And that's what Heyman gave a speech for. So is everybody familiar with that? Yeah, that's the Hinman speech I think people are aware of. That's a speech where Hinman basically said that ETH wasn't a security because it's decentralized. And that's what Ripple was talking I think it's the Hinman speech and said, you know, if ETH is not security, why is Ripple a security?

Or XRP a security, sorry. Right, so I'm going to make the... I'm going to be very blunt, and I will show the evidence on what I'm about to say. For legal reasons, I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I will show it to you. It's like weeks. It's not months.

And number one, Ethereum itself did not believe it was decentralized when that speech was given, nor was it decentralized nor could joe or italic have believed it was because there's internal documents that indicate otherwise and the only person that understood and had access to those documents and understood that was me. And if you follow the fabrication of the crime against me, which I proved from the government's own documents, it was the SEC was leading it, the FBI, the DOJ, everybody in this industry should care about what happened

because they weren't only after me. They were after, well, everybody who's a speaker on here pretty much was on a list. They wanted everybody. I mean, I told Rand at the time, and I know I sounded like a crazy person, but it's true. They were looking to get as many people in this industry as possible. And that all started at the very same time, coincidentally, when Hinman got to the SEC and the people that were leading the charge at the SEC was Hinman and my prosecution.

So, Stephen, I just want to hone the discussion in a little bit. Before this bombshell that's about to drop, is this all around the fact that they knew that Assyria wasn't decentralized while Hinman said that it was? Well, that's part one. They knew there was requirements that they had to do, that they did to do that they did not do that's specifically related to whether or not it would be decentralized.

And what are the implications? I mean, we're now five years forward. So what are the implications of the fact that it wasn't decentralized? Well, the implications are, let's go back for a second. Let's go back. All right, so let's go back for a second. Let's go back to the ICO.

The ICO, I think, is pretty clear at this point. I set it up, okay, and it was perfectly fine, and I had the product narrative, and I set all the pieces in place, except if you listen to Gary Gensler, he personally has said that Joe Lubin bought 9.5%. And there's no speculative buying that turns it from a product into a security. So now you've got a securities offering. So now when you go into is it decentralized, is it not decentralized, and you've got people like Lubin and Vitalik going out and telling it's decentralized

and it's a public market for it. You're now under the securities laws. I'm not going to make an accusation in terms of what laws are broken. Is it securities fraud? Is it market manipulation? That's for the lawyers to figure out. But you're no longer in crypto land. Okay, but I mean,

are you insinuating that potentially there's going to be charges against Vitalik and Joe Lubin? Well, that's up to the DOJ and the SEC. Here's the thing. The SEC claims that they had nothing to do, just so you guys understand

what's going on here. The SEC claimed that I was crazy. They had nothing to do with this none of this happened um and then i requested all the information that they have on me which they said they didn't have any but then by law they had to tell me they have 14 gigabytes of data on me in just a five-year period what the hell is 14 gigabytes if they had nothing to do with my prosecution that makes sense right i guess i think everybody can figure that out i'm just

trying to work out what i'm kind of i'm trying to i'm trying to unravel the potential implications because what what i've been gathering is that you've been holding a lot of information and you're about to drop a bombshell i'm just trying to work out what the collateral damage of the bombshell is going to be. Well, you've got people that have something that's, you actually go back to the, you know, a lot of people miss the first Hinman speech and that was the Dow report. The Dow report, for those who don't know, there was a Dow where it was basically like a venture fund and people put like 15% of all the ether into the Dow. And then there was a hack. And there's questions about whether or not the hack was an inside job or not. Let's put that aside for a second but you've got securities violations there and hinman

papered that over with the dow report which doesn't make sense because he said basically they're grandfathered in in 2016 2017 but then he goes after ripple in 2013 like that's completely inconsistent those are inconsistent positions. Steve, you also said something like that they fabricated or they created a fake case against you. Absolutely. If I remember reading

the details of your case, wasn't your case an extortion case that was made by a project? Yeah, that project was a setup. That project is called StormX, for everybody to know. Simon Yu is the CEO. Ari Yu was the president.

The whole thing was a setup. And when did it start? May of 2017, the same month that Hinman got there. And that co-conspirator, everybody's... And why do you think they went against you? Why do you think... Who do you think went against you and why? Oh, so we have proof.

We got into the government's documents. We have proof. And my attorney's on here. I don't know if he can speak or not. Mike Scotto, if we can put him into the government's documents we have proof and my attorney's on here and i don't know if he can speak or not mike scotto if we can put him into the speak vote but um we found this is unprecedented we found proof that the sec the fbi and the doj fabricated the evidence literally fabricated it like there were documents that we found on fbi letterhead that i had nothing to do with i never even knew existed and those are the documents they prosecuted me on there was no crime the crime never happened. The discredit, so I'm going to be very clear, the discrediting and the prosecution

was to take me out because I'm the only person who could reveal this whole Eathgate saga and what they did, and they're working with Hinman to get themselves this regulatory pass, because the regulatory pass is not valid.

And Steve, when are you going to drop this? Because we need to wrap soon and I see Dave Weisberg has got his hand up. That's what's frustrating for it. It's kind of up to my attorneys. I'm going to be dropping the recording of the restructuring very shortly. I will tell you I have, the attorneys that I have are people that, their names that everybody on this call knows. They're luminaries, you know, they're like the top

of the industry. So I'm anticipating in December where we'll be filing it and all the proof will be there. But there will be some major press about this before the end of this month that will expose

all of this. Except it won't happen necessarily. Should we drop the recording on a space? How long is the recording for, Stephen? How long is the recording for, Stephen? Almost three hours. Three hours.

Cool. And it comes with a transcript, too. Dave, I see your hands up. Your hands have been up for a while. In fact, Mario, I'll tell you what. Yes, Stephen. Just so I'll send it to you, and you can take a look at it first. And then if you want, we can just talk about it on other spaces.

I'll check. What do you think? I mean, both of you, of course. Cool. I appreciate that, Stephen. Dave, get your thoughts on what was just discussed now and just again, a reminder for anyone listening, I know that the conversation kind of

shifted, but we're going to talk to Nine Inch. We're going to talk to Nine Inch in a bit. They're an exchange focused, a DEx focused on meme coins so we'll be getting them up shortly and dave your thoughts yeah i just want to react to rand's comment about market frothiness because i'm looking at a screen of data and of course the markets are you know collapsing right now and i hate that we're collapsing but it's gonna be but yeah we're at 36.3 now i'll give it holy shit i mean yeah it's uh it's going to move down but yeah we're at 36.3 now uh give or take i mean yeah it's

uh it's dropping like a stone but what's interesting i've been looking at it all morning and our clients have been very active today uh things like the premiums in the iperps and the other perpetual swaps you know they're and the funding rates are i mean like derivative just went negative just to put it that way uh so that's hardly indicative of froth uh buy bits a bit elevated bit you know bitmex is a teeny little bit elevated binance is not elevated at all uh and the premiums yeah you know they went to in dollar terms just to put your head around it they've been trading flat to the the you know for for weeks you know they spiked to i, except for a couple of teeny tiny spikes,

to like $40 to $60, which is nothing. When we've seen, to put it in perspective, at previous tops in the $60,000 range when it was doing that, you had routinely $100 premiums, and the volatility of that would go up and down a lot. Meanwhile, the CME has had dramatically higher premiums today, $400, $500. It's hit a couple times. That's been more volatile. So there's been actually more speculation, weirdly, in the United States by speculation metrics than overseas, which is generally the opposite of what you see in frothy markets. So just reacting to the comment about froth, I think that there's a lot of fear among shorts

and short squeezes and gamma squeezes going on, but we don't have anything close to the persistent froth that generally goes on for weeks, not hours. And in this case, it was hours. So it's just data. And Dave, I'm just looking at the markets now, just dropped from touching 38K to now 36.5. Is there any news that came out that led to the drop or just people taking profits?

I've been with you guys. I haven't been paying attention to news. I'm just staring at, you know, we have clients that use our algos to trade the spreads between all of these things and transfer liquidity from various assets to another. And they're making a lot of money today. So, you know, I've been watching that volatility is good so i'll dig into the news after we get off the spaces mario sorry yeah no no oh good i'm just having a look at the so it is still doing well just under 2k it's not that bad um but yeah it's just a bit less frothiness what are your thoughts on this is normal it's just normal volatility right frothiness. What are your thoughts on this? This is normal. It's just normal volatility, right?

You know, when you get to these things. I was just reacting to Rand's persistent froth as a signal to get off the train kind of comment. I don't think we're there yet. By the way, you know, the iPerps just, yeah, we're now seeing weird prints, like some weird stuff going on. You know, it's gotten really on. I mean, Dave, what I said was that I think the altcoins have become very frosty. And I said that the altcoin leverage, Bitcoin and ETH, is at high.

And I mean, if you look at the market that's coming down, Bitcoin's come down a little bit. ETH's kind of holding. But if you look at the other altcoins, especially if you look at Pepe, look at Doge, look at all those ones, those are the ones where the froth has just been shaken out or is being shaken out. And that's it.

Yeah, I agree with that, Ran. You know, to be honest, I'm like, Scott and I are similar. I mean, in the sense of I try not to look at that stuff to understand what's going on. But of course, our clients are looking at that stuff and trading that stuff. And there's a lot going on.

There's a lot of brownie in motion. It's indicative of, in my mind, to more interest in the sector, more traders, and honestly, people not wanting to get involved in really the speculation on the large caps because they know what could happen there, and they feel more facile about getting in and out of the small caps, which is, I know, counterintuitive, but I know a lot of traders that think that way. Maybe that's enough. One thing I always look at is startup funding, VC funding.

And we've got here Standard Chartered SBI Holdings team up to invest $100 million in crypto startups. Let me read the first. Standard Chartered's SC Ventures and SBI Holdings plan to invest $100 million in startups that aim to invest globally, covering Series C funding. See if they talk about any narratives, what they invest. Let me see. DeFi, nothing big.

Oh, hold on. Don't DeFi. No, nothing. I see gaming. Oh, they don't talk about what they're looking at. But that's good news there. Are you seeing, Dave? Are they looking at punks by any chance?

By any chance that they're looking to buy some punks? Punks? Hold on. Let me look at the punks floor because price, at the that they're looking to buy some punks? Punks? Hold on. Let me look at the punks' floor because price, at the end of the day, dictates reality. So let's look.

What do we look at? Lava Labs. What do you think the punks' floor is? I haven't looked at it in months, to be honest, other than you mentioning. What would you think

is the floor? I don't have a frame of reference of where it's been. I don't watch it at all. I wouldn't even know what it is. What would you say the cheapest punk

you can buy right now? What would you expect the price to be? 50 ETH. Shit, man. It's 54. You cheated. I'm sure you looked at it. It's 100K. It went down. It went as low as 70K.

Look at dollars. It went as low as 70K. Obviously, a lot of it depends on the price of ETH. But as low as 70K, I want to lot of it depends on the price of ETH. But as low as 70K, I want to see if I can find a chart. It's going with the market, man. It survived. And if the market is recovering, if we're in a quote-unquote raging bull market, then anything that's still alive is a good thing.

Anything that's correlating with the rest of the market is a good thing. I can't wait for the price to go down so I can buy one. What price should you buy one can you make a promise now the audience that you'll buy one at a certain price be realistic when it gets to five years i'm a buyer just for fun five years all right man well um well now i know that you'll never have a punk and i'll just accept it um just another another quick question for you dave is uh anything that could change your opinion over the next six months on where the market is heading any news any developments give us some examples if mike mcglone is right and we get a a stock

market sell-off that rivals the you know the 2008 financial crisis. Yeah, I mean, all risk assets, when those things happen, correlations go to one. Honestly, that would be even more bullish long term for Bitcoin, because it would indicate, you know, complete loss of faith and institutions. But in the short run, you know, that would be horrendous. And, you know, I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just saying there are people who say that that would be a big deal. Obviously, I really can't. I hate the conversation about U.S. regulation. I know what's going on, you know, really bad news in terms of, you know, in terms of regulation, in terms of Elizabeth Warren getting more power. You know, all those things could be difficult. But, you know, it seems unlikely. I think I think we've seen the bottoms in the FUD, you know,

in FUD, but you know, obviously, these FUD attacks are constant. Those are all things that can happen. But the most important thing, frankly, is watch the delinking, right? You know, what's the correlation of Bitcoin to financial assets under normal circumstances. And it's been totally uncorrelated over the last month. I mean, you know, I haven't measured the exact number, but I'm pretty sure it's inverse or pretty damn close to inverse. And if you look at Emmer's, so that's the thing I was talking about earlier. I think Stephen, you mentioned it. Emmer's bill that he's called Gensler ineffective and incompetent.

So he's introduced an amendment. So the nonpartisan amendment passed. It's already passed the House with no opposition yesterday. Okay. So I'm just constantly seeing all those bills. Are we seeing any progress there? Could that really make change to the regulatory framework around crypto? Because this is something that Scott keeps up with, and he's not here on stage.

Dave, Stephen, anyone can give us more clarity on those bills and how important they could be? Yeah, I mean, I chained their game changers they basically put all of the authority in counselor's hands or you know the sec and the really the big issue is like if you go back to warren davidson with the token taxonomy act in 2019 the key there was he had a safe harbor provision and almost every regulatory regime around the world has a safe harbor. If you check off these boxes and you want a license to do an exchange, you want to do utility token or whatever you want, then you are in the safe harbor.

This does not have that. So basically this confusion land that we're living in, they're codifying that into law. So this is a horrible legislation if they did that and then they had some kind of safe harbor where instead if you were you fulfilled these requirements your utility token or you fulfill these requirements you're an exchange that doesn't have to register with us that would be fine but notice they're not doing that so they're what they're trying to win in the courts they don't really care about the fact like you know i mean they ripple you know handed them their you know what

in the courts right and good for ripple but it doesn't really matter that's one loss and ripple is the winner but the rest of the industry is going to lose with this legislation and then i would also say when they were there's another issue is that if they appeal this, you, the chances of them going to the Second Circuit, like who knows what happens at the Second Circuit, right? But then you've got another issue at the Supreme Court, you've got a conservative Supreme Court. And so everybody was saying, like, they're going to just go appeal. This is not just an SEC issue. If they go to the Supreme Court supreme court and they lose you're talking about this is something that would affect every executive administrative agency and their authority so it's not just an scc issue so i don't even think this is against our issue to decide whether or not he goes to the supreme court i appreciate that update hexie how are you hexie you gotta unmute've got to unmute, man. GM, GM, sorry. I was just waiting for you guys to get on with what you're doing.

GM, guys, thanks for having me on. Man, who came up with the name 9inch? It was a friend of mine who I was hanging out with down in London. He said, you know how we've got 1inch.io? What if you did 9inch.io? Yeah, but why don't you go with it? But with it but man you gotta reach out to the mass audience so the average penis size i've looked it up it's 4.5 inch why go all the way to nine i don't know where you come up with that not with that name but i'm sure it's gonna get the attention look for anyone that

doesn't know nine inches of dex i'm gonna try to give you a quick overview it's a dex focus on meme coins really that simple. You're going to tell us why you guys are going to lead meme coin trading. Are you already leading? Any metrics to share? But tell us more about what Nine Inches and why people should bother checking it out over One Inch and others. Yeah, so Nine Inches is essentially a decentralized exchange. It's a fork of pancake swapSwap with a few improvements.

We're going for the meme coin space, the meme coin niche, because we feel like it's a quite underserviced part of crypto. Everyone knows about meme coins, but usually they would just trade them on Uniswap or centralized exchanges, things like that. We thought that this would be quite a good niche to go for because whether you love meme coins or hate them, I actually used to be hugely against meme coins a couple years ago but you can't argue with the volume and the attention that they bring to the space in general

um obviously the name nine inch yeah you're absolutely right it's a little bit it's a little bit of a of a stretch for most it's a good it's a good it's a good day I'm just messing with you, man. It definitely grabs attention. But how will you become then? Are you any metrics to share? And how will you become number one when it comes to meme coins? So any meme coin traders right now, what's their incentive to go out and check out 9inch? And just by the way, anyone listening is going to check it out. The tweet is pinned at the top and Hexie and 9inch are both on stage. But why should they check it out? What makes you different? we're different because of the the branding potential that we got we're also coming into the space with a huge following from the pulse chain hex and pulse chain

community so uh i've been uh i hate the term influencer but i've been an influencer i suppose in the hex and pulse chain community for like almost three years now got quite a good name for myself over there and those guys support me massively and what we're trying to do is we're trying to bridge the gap over on the ethereum side we're bringing the tokenomics of uh pulsex if any of you are familiar with that they've got a thing on there based on volume there's a buy and burn on the core token pulsex uh we've got the same thing with nine inch so as volume goes through the decks it benefits nine inch holders because we're constantly buying and burning the tokens um the incentive to for the mean coin guys to come

over is that we're going to have uh liquidity farms and single-sided staking pools so that's going to encourage people over a little bit like sushi swap did uh so if your coin so the nine inch token is a dowel token so if you own some of, you can vote for your token to have a liquidity farm and you can go in there and then by staking your LP, you will receive a bonus token, which is called Big Bonus Coin, aka BBC. Definitely nothing dirty about that one. So yeah, it's basically,

we're going to kind of vampire attack, but in a sort of handshake way. So we're going to try and remove liquidity from Uniswap by looking after people a little bit better over on our side by rewarding them for putting the lp on our side very similar to pancake swap except we've got the advanced economics of having buying the pressure based upon the volume that goes through the depth what's your liquidity like any metrics to share and have you raised any money how'd you get to where you are today yeah so on um liquidity at the moment i think we're somewhere in the region of like 26 million 25 26 million across both

ethereum and pulse chain we're already the number two decks on pulse chain we're currently doing about 10 of the uh of the volume that pulse x is doing which is quite quite amazing already um for a short while we were so the number two deck. What percentage of pulse X? About 10%. Okay. How long have you been around for? Today marks two weeks. Oh, shit. You're brand new. Congratulations. Yeah, we literally launched. In fact, I think it's 13 days, actually. Let me be accurate.

Yeah, 13 days we've been around. We've been the number two DEX on PulseChain ever since we launched. For a short while, we were number two on Ethereum as well. I think we're third at the moment. I haven't checked it today. But really, I mean, my aim here is to kind of bridge the gap between the PulseChain and the Ethereum ecosystem because PulseChain is essentially the same as Ethereum. It's just the fees are way cheaper. So I did some transactions on 9inch myself today. I added some liquidity. It cost me about $50 to do that on Ethereum.

But on Pulse Chain, it cost me a penny. So that's kind of what we're trying to do here. But realistically, we're trying to eat Uniswap's lunch. We're not entirely keen. I'm sure a lot of people who have been following the saga of Un of uni swap lately aren't entirely keen on some of the things that they're bringing in in the future as in kyc and they're also raising the fees so we've got better fees and there's absolutely no kyc and we don't intend that there ever will be so uh yeah we're just we're just trying to bring um liquidity on ethereum over to a place where

you're going to be treated better we've got a better front end we've got additional features uh better ui the branding's amazing if anyone goes and checks out nineinch.io there's just memes out the yin yang all over the place for example you don't add liquidity you insert it and you don't remove liquidity you pull it out so uh just just little jokes like that all over the place and um we're a very memorable brand i mean you see that big eggplant sat there, you know, it's quite easy to remember. It's a good name. And, you know, we've got, I think, like my influence bringing into the Ethereum space

with all the pulse chain and hex following that I've got. I mean, whether you like Richard Hart or you dislike Richard Hart, you can't argue with the following and the desire of his followers. They're very loud and they're very proud. And we're going to a little bit of an element of that uh to what we're doing here but we're just going to do it with a little bit of a different flavor i'm very different to richard in this in the way that i approach things um i'm very much trying to shake hands with everyone i welcome anyone who has their own protocol to come and get listed on our decks and bring some liquidity there um we have a website.

It's nine inch.io forward slash casting couch. If you want to get your token listed on there, you just have to fill out that form. And, and yeah, we're just looking to shake hands with everyone. We want to, we want to be the second largest decks on Ethereum and Pulse Chain. If we do any kind of similar numbers to, even if we do 1% of the uni swap volume, the amount of buy and burn pressure that we're going to have on our core token 9-inch is going to be ridiculous. And I really hope that this thing pumps like hell during the bull market. I think we've launched at the perfect time as well.

I agree. Your timing is perfect. We're just talking with the guys. We're talking about meme coins. I don't follow the meme coin market i'm looking at your top tokens so obviously your own token which i want to learn more about and the utility of the token uh is number one and then you got pulse is number two two million and then the third one is where did the eth go at 500k liquidity um and then that's one of our tokens as well um there's a bit of an ecosystem here so. So originally I'm the founder of a token called Poor Player, PP. So it's all kind of tied in with dick jerks and stuff like that. So PP is my first token that I launched. And originally we came up with the idea for this because we wanted to do staking and liquidity farming for PP.

And another token I'm involved in called Pool Stoge. We recently released Where Did the ETH Go? And if any of you are familiar with Richard Hart, that was quite a big meme about him when he did the HEX launch, is he was getting all this Ethereum and everyone was like, where did the ETH go? So our logo is Richard in a sailor outfit. We just kind of did that for a joke. We distributed it to everyone who was involved in 9inch. And that one has actually gone up about 700x since we launched it. So fantastic performance on that one

but we have our own little ecosystem here that we that we obviously intend to promote on the decks but it is a decentralized exchange anyone can come along and buy nine inch tokens and vote for a particular token or ticker to get added to the farms we're going to do this monthly so every month new people can get added to the farm so it is going to be very decentralized in that way so uh yeah i think as well when new tokens do get listed on the farm. So it is going to be very decentralized in that way. So yeah, I think as well, when new tokens do get listed on our farms, depending on our popularity and how much we grow, I think by getting your token of farm on there,

you're probably going to see a bit of a pump as people ape in. Because as we all know, when a new liquidity farm is launched, the APY on that is absolutely ridiculous at the beginning until it fills up. So some of ours, when we launched them, they were at like millions of percent APY for that is absolutely ridiculous at the beginning until it fills up. So some of ours, when we launched them, they were at like millions of percent APY for a short time,

which even if you're only in for like 10 minutes, that's really good. So, yeah. Yeah. How do you see yourself getting out of the Pulse ecosystem? Because I'm looking at the first, obviously your coin is number one, number two is Pulse, number three is your meme coin. And that represents 90 whatever percent of the liquidity. Then you've got a bunch of stables if you remove them.

Then the next number seven is Pulse Dog. Pulse Dog number eight is your coin again on ETH. Then big bonus coin. I'm guessing it's a big bonus coin in poor play. But are they both in the Pulse ecosystem? Well, all of our tokens. So the ones in our ecosystem is 9inch, BBC, PP, PLD, Pulse Doge, and then when did the ETH go?

All of these are on Ethereum and on Pulse Chain. So this is how we intend to do everything. And you can actually bridge over these tokens either to Pulse Chain or to Ethereum, and you can farm with them in that way as well. So it's quite easy to do that. The way that we intend to do it is simply by shaking hands. I don't know if you guys are familiar with a character called The Dev.

Hey, it's me, The Dev. I'm really outside the meme coin world, man. I'm the worst at that, so I'm just learning here. Well, this guy's done videos with CZ, BitBoy, God, loads of guys. He's quite a viral figure in uh maybe it is more in the meme coin space but if you didn't already know he's the guy that developed

bitcoin so i mean she's you know but that's kind of the meme i suppose he's he's one of the guys that team there we've we've onboarded them and they're like a huge supporter of us i've done a couple videos with him already so uh yeah we're just we're just looking to shake hands i mean obviously the eath crowd is is very it's very hard to break in there but we've got a very unique approach and the way that i've been developing my brand the hexi bastard brand um we're we're just we're just memeing the hell out of everything so um again the low-hanging fruit for us is the richard hart ecosystem because i'm already kind of in there with all those guys

most people know who i am already um so one of the things we're working on at the moment is are any of you familiar with a film called the highest of stakes uh which came out recently and it's the sort of a documentary about richard hart and hex and things like that um we're doing a parody of that called the lowest of stakes so we've been out filming that over the last couple months and having literally the time of my life filming this it's absolutely hilarious things like this are going to help because even people who dislike richard hart of which i guess in the ethereum general crypto space there's quite a few you either love him or you hate him right so this is going to attract the guys that hate him because we're basically taking the piss out of him the whole way through the, through the film in,

in a nice way, you know, we're not, I respect him, but yeah, we're just, we're just meaning him. So this is one of the approaches, but there's, there's a lot of ways to do it. I mean, the thing is money talks, right? So let's say for example, Pepe, that's quite a popular one at the moment. When we release a Pepe farm, which we will be doing in the next few days, I believe that's going to attract a lot of their users over just simply on the fact that if they're LP providers anyway, they can come and provide LP here and they get paid for the fact of doing it.

So not only do they get their liquidity fees as normal, they also will get paid in the BBC token for farming with it. Another thing to quickly point out as well is that our fees are cheaper than Uniswap. And also we are more gas efficient than Uniswap as well. So we're about 20% cheaper on gas than Uniswap. So even if people aren't using us directly, we've all heard of 1inch and Matcha and Cowswap and things like that.

These are aggregators. If you're looking to buy something on an aggregator and our liquidity is good and the fees are cheaper and the to buy something on an aggregator and our liquidity is good and the fees are cheaper and the gas is cheaper the aggregate is going to choose us so that we're going to get a lot of users using us without even realizing they're using us because all they do is scour the blockchain for the best deal so if we've got lower fees and lower gas it's it's probably it's quite likely that they're going to root via us now this is only obviously for pairs that we've got liquidity on but if we can entice these bigger coins like Pepe or Shiba Inu or whoever else

to come and use AdEx instead, then it's quite likely that all the aggregators are going to use us. And when the aggregators do use us, that means that the nine-inch holders get to benefit from the additional buy and burn. There was a time where Pepe was doing over $100 million of volume every single day for about two weeks. It was going up to about $200 million of volume every day. That's a crazy amount of buy and burn potential that our holders could take advantage of. So yeah, I think overall what we've got going on here, the tokenomics are fantastic and the branding is fantastic.

All we need to do now is get the word out. And I think people are going to follow um there's money to be made here guys cool um i think the best strategy is you guys partnering so you got to get all these meme coins to to list on on nine inch and then they'll get their community with them that's your main focus right now yeah absolutely uh yeah as i said uh shaking hands with everyone um we're we're very. We want to work with people as much as we can. And we have got a lot of guys that we're talking to. I think we had something like 120 different tokens applied to be listed before we launched. So we're definitely going to be dominating on the pulse chain side without a doubt. But I think Ethereum side is the silent sleeper because Ethereum obviously has a lot more money on it right now. It's just that I feel a bit bad for Ethereum users with the extent of the gas fees right now. It really does suck when you've got to pay, I don't

know, $40 to do a trade or something like that. So hopefully we can use this tool to get a few people over to pulse chain as well. But that's not really our aim here. Our aim is just to have thick liquidity and offer a better service and lower fees to anyone who decides that they want to use us. A lot of token founders have been in touch inquiring about how to do this. And as I said, I think it's about 120 different tokens that have likely listed beforehand. And this is when no one knew about us so i think in future we're just going to continue to grow and as we get bigger it's like a downhill snowball effect so as we as we chunk you know say we get the pepe guys on board then it becomes a lot easier to get the shibu new guys on board and so on and so on and so on so uh yeah as we grow

it will it will develop very very fast and i i think, honestly, we're on to a winner here. I think that without giving any expectations, I think the product that we've built here should be worth billions of dollars market cap eventually. Good luck with what you're doing, man. Again, I'm completely out of the meme coin world, but I respect that you've bootstrapped this. And the strategy makes sense.

So I wish you all the best. And yeah, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you know the the strategy makes sense um so i wish you all the best and um yeah i appreciate you coming on i appreciate you sponsoring the show anyone that wants to check out nine inch check out on the pinned tweet at the top and um you could chat to them you can communicate you can reach out to them hexi is on stage as well you can hit him up but otherwise ryan and scott disappeared scott has an emergency and ran probably dropped out um so i'll wrap up the show really appreciate it everyone appreciate hexi coming on and talking about nine inch and we'll see everyone tomorrow. Bye everyone.