The Wolf Of All Streets - BTC Rallies Before FOMC! What’s Coming Tomorrow? | CryptoTownHall

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

This episode of Crypto Town Hall centers around current events and big moves in the crypto markets, particularly focusing on the upcoming Fed rate cut, the launch of new digital asset ETFs (including Solana, HBAR, and Litecoin staked ETFs), major product launches by companies like IBM, and ongoing developments in the stablecoin and DeFi ecosystems. The conversation weaves through technical analysis, the impact of ETFs on various crypto assets (and why some launches generate less excitement), institutional adoption, and the evolution of crypto market maturity. A featured guest, Matan—the founder and CEO of TFi—joins in the second half to discuss his DeFi superapp and the project's upcoming advances and philosophy. The aim is to better understand both immediate price movements and the longer-term direction of crypto as it goes mainstream, with a practical look at utility, infrastructure, and adoption.

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Cryptotown Hall every weekday here at 10.15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. In my case, 7.15 a.m. Pacific Standard time today here in Vegas. I'll be back tomorrow, but was here to interview Michael Saylor yesterday at Money 2020. And, of course, woke up at 3.30 a.m. this morning, ready to go because even that three hours of jet lag, apparently. Leah, too much for my old man body to handle. We have a title here, Bitcoin rallies before FOMC. What's coming tomorrow? 98% chance of a Fed rate cut. So I think everybody knows exactly what's coming tomorrow and markets likely pricing that in. I'm not sure that we can connect the market pump or Bitcoin buying that's happening right now necessary. with the fact that we're getting a completely priced in rate cut tomorrow, but it's worth discussing what is driving the market. There's quite a lot of big news today.

Obviously, we have a number of ETFs launching and starting trading today, tomorrow within the next few hours, looking at HBR, Litecoin, Salana, staking, ETF, all of those things happening. Also in the news, we have IBM. announcing the launch of its enterprise crypto service platform, which is pretty big news that will likely go completely undiscussed. And of course, the S&P giving a debt rating, a credit rating to strategy. This first time a treasury company has gotten one, it's a B-minus. Not necessarily the best rating, but I spoke to Saylor about it yesterday, and he was super

pumped that treasury companies are now even on the radar of the S&P to get a rating there. I think we can start with the market. Bitcoin trading at 115, 951, about to be back up at 116,000, ETH, 4100, Solana outperforming both up 2% 24 hours at $200 and $2. Dave, did you make it through TSA? I have. I'm in the Admills Club, so there you go. Yeah, all of the flights here have been delayed for the last two days, I think, I don't know if it's the government shutdown or the furlough, but my travel looks like I'm getting home now at 1 o'clock in the morning, which would be great for tomorrow. But I'm going to New York, and for whatever reason, this time the plane is sitting at the gate, so if it's living, it won't be too bad. So not too horrible, but whatever.

Anyway, you know, this market, it's always... Let's talk about the market, yeah. Yeah, I always find it funny how we have to come up with explanations for why certain things happen when in reality, especially in the market in Bitcoin, all it would take for any rally whatsoever is for some of the supply that has been figured by its climb over 100,000 to abate because the demand has not abated. It hasn't even come close to abating. And so it's really easy. I mean, the amount, like Matt Hogan had a tweet yesterday, and he's right. There's an enormous number of stories that are all positive that are being ignored. I mean, and, you know, like you mentioned IBM, you know, what does that mean? You know, it's telling you that everything is going to be tokenized. We talked about Zell going international yesterday. We talked about J.P. Morgan accepting Bitcoin is collateral.

All of this is indicative of the fact that there's a lot of money that will be able to move without friction, where right now there's a ton of friction, and that matters. But, you know, what causes it instantaneously to go higher? Well, look, the S&P has made new all-time highs. We're printing money. The, you know, the denominator keeps going. And, you know, that's sort of Tom Lee's thesis. And he's not wrong. You know, anything that has a reasonable narrative is going to attract capital. And gold, meanwhile, is doing exactly what you would expect it to do, which is it had a little blow-off copy from the hotball of money that was going into it. But it's not going anywhere. It's still in its up trend. And, you know, it's just going to quiet down for a while. while in base, which is the same thing that we'd said when Bitcoin first went over $100,000, it's going to quiet down in base. And guess what? We're still in the middle of that range. There are a lot of technicians looking to take profits at, we're looking to establish shorts

or said they did, you know, a couple days ago at 116. So we'll see what happens. But my guess is the first attempt at this level, the rally will fade. If it doesn't, well, all of a sudden, all those bears are going to flip positive. And that's when you can get some really interesting stuff. Well, Bitcoin did take a shot at this level a few days ago. I don't remember when it was. Yeah, it's an important level for these. It's right. Just above the 50 MA, 200 MAs way down there below. We were trading between the two.

So if we start closing candles for a lot of technicians, you know, consistently above the daily 50 in this area, maybe, you know, we start talking about the 120s again. But it's all, you know, it's a small detail. I think we all know directionally where it's going with time. and 120 and 116 are the same price when we're at 250. Yeah, and that is the incredibly important point. The long-term bulls are where the bids coming from, but they're not chasing. And the technical traders and the momentum traders are still out of the market or short. And so that's generally pretty constructive, but, I mean, you know, people can get shaken. Traders are easy to shake out of positions.

Investors are hard to shake out of positions. And at the end of the day, we have yet to get to the point in this, and I don't want to use the word cycle, we'll say in this market where the traders are, are dominating. And so we'll see. All right, panel, let's open it up. What do you guys think? Brian, go ahead. Hey, everybody. Yeah, I just point out a plus one on all these huge, huge, positive medium to long term catalysts, whether that's digital assets going in.

the U.S. retirement plans, whether that's a proliferation of digital asset ETS, whether that's new market structure legislation that should come in the U.S. The thing I was going to say is this is a huge week from a fundamental standpoint with a lot of potential catalysts to the upside or to the downside, depending on how they unfold. So we've got big tech earnings. You have Google, Amazon, Apple, Meta, Microsoft, all reporting Wednesday, Thursday. You have a U.S.-China trade deal that could be announced. Trump is meeting Xi on Thursday. A framework for a potential trade deal has already been set. And then you have, of course, the Fed meeting, which you mentioned. I think it's almost a hundred percent chance that they'll cut 25 bips. And I think the big

question is to whether or not they allude to another cut in December, which I suspect that they probably will. And so if all those things go our way, earnings are good, we do make progress on U.S.-China trade relations and the Fed cuts and signals more to come, I think, like, yeah, we could see a rip higher. Anyone else? Jump in, market thoughts. I'm happy to chip in here. I'm a bit disappointed with the new ETA. I'm a bit disappointed with the new ETF stocks. I mean, H-Barr should be pumping, Sol should be pumping, LTC should be pumping. Am I missing something here?

I think HBR was up about 16%, the last I checked. So that one did get a move. Salon, I think, was like maybe mentally a foregone conclusion. But, yeah, you would expect to see moves commensurate with what, you know, happened in the past with ETF approval. Why, Scott? Seriously. Yeah.

No, no. I mean. Because we, you know, it was old season in public equities. So, you know, when something actually has an excuse for. it to move on the public side, maybe you would get some tailwinds on the crypto side. But yeah, I guess everybody knows they're coming. So what's the big deal? Well, not only that.

And how many people are going to buy an H-bar, BTF, I don't know. Solana has a very hyped, very, you know, hyped is the wrong word, because that implies negative. A very, you know, an all-star team behind it, and it's a treasuring company, it's in the public market. So anybody, any financial investor or investor who only had brokerage account already has the ability by a forward, you get exposure to Solana, and get exposure to Solana and get, yield, et cetera.

Or you taxi, right, Brian? Right, exactly. Right, right. But my point is it was already there. So, you know, the first vehicle that allows for opening up money and traditional assets to a crypto event is a big deal. After that, it's, I mean, it's just marketing. And marketing takes time.

When I say marketing, I don't mean it in a majority way. I mean, that is true, but I mean, Bitcoin's obviously different. It was the most anticipated ETF launch of all time, but you did have micro strategy. Not the same. Well, but it's different. Maybe, but yeah. It's different. A lot of people, you had marketing, as what I was just saying, don't underestimate how many people

were reached by BlackRock salespeople, by Fidelity Salespeople, by Matt and his team at Bitwise's salespeople, et cetera. That is not a small thing. And the amount of education it took was a lot. Now, yes, it's wildly performed. all the estimates. I mean, wildly. I mean, not even close.

I just remember, I'll still remember when Alex from Galaxy came out with the report saying it would get attract 15 billion and people, you know, in the first six months or whatever it was. And he got vilified. They were like, yeah, you're crazy. It's not going to do that much. Yeah. $5 billion was supposed to be way too much.

He said 15 and people made, made fun of them. Right. And then it outperformed by what, 4X, you know, or 3X in the same time period? I mean, it's not like they, said he was wrong. People actually made fun of it for it. So, you know, Alex, if you're listening, I know you do sometimes, you know, you can take your victory lap anytime you want. But the difference is, is understand the VHS matter, but they matter in the same way all these other news stories matter. Brick by brick, bit by bit, the investing public is going to move from,

oh, these things are tulip bone, to these things are tech stock. And don't underestimate. that because, you know, everyone's seen, and a lot of people've seen things like Boiloo and others, there's some people think of crypto as well, as this wild crazy casino, et cetera, and sure, you know, because they hear about, you know, dog with hat, right, or fartcorn. But Salana, Hedara, a lot of these have real youth cases that you could argue that some of them are overpump. You can make all sorts arguments. You can't argue that there's real technology. They're doing real things. And so that hasn't penetrated, the average in investor. Just think about that and literally not penetrated. We are in, we're not even in the first

inning. The pitchers are just warming up for that. I'd say we're into the second inning maybe in Bitcoin. But, you know, but in these things, no. We're, we're, we, the game hasn't even started. And my guess is it'll be as long as yes, last night's World Series game, which for those I was just going to say, so is the analogy nine innings or is it 18? 18 innings. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a long, look, this is a long cycle, right? You know, cycles tend to be compressed now, but it's a long term. That that's really my point. Anyway, I managed to gin up a bunch of hands, so then you don't have to look for me to speak. Good job.

Thank you. Austin. Yeah, so one part on the ETF thing to pile on Dave's point is you've really got to put yourselves in the shoes of like the average investor here to understand what is going on with ETFs, especially as they get integrated with RIAs, retirement portfolios, et cetera. And I would tell you, you know, maybe to echo what Dave said, the only asset in the entire crypto space, that has really breached into that consciousness so far as Bitcoin. And I do think that's kind of why we've seen some divergence in Bitcoin price for many of the other things recently. Heath is probably number two on that list, but I'm going to be clear,

it's a pretty distant number two right now. And everything else is a long tail after that. So there is this sort of diminishing effect as new Dats are approved for call it lower and lower tier assets compared to those just in terms of like what people think of them, what the general public consciousness is. Because if you go to the average person on the street, you say, hey, have you heard about HADERA, their first question is, what's that? Right? It's not yes or no.

It's like confusion. So it doesn't surprise me that reactions there can be more muted. Two, to bring it all the way back to where we started, when you're looking at a backdrop in the current market that the Fed is going to be cutting into a record S&P into mildly above targeting. inflation, but also some fears about unemployment, right? Like, you would expect asset prices to continue to do well. This is a very constructive environment generically. So I would also urge most people think about the total backdrop when you're looking at price action here, not just specific assets. Yeah, my view is for these longer tail assets, like the ETF's impact on to draw asset prices will be all about flows. I'd plus one on you're aware.

I'd seen surveys that said 99% of Americans have heard of Bitcoin, you know, that percentage for Hedera, I'm sure, is probably in the low single digits. Also, too, like Bitcoin had this huge run up into the ETFs. It was this big thing for literally a decade where you're not getting that with some of these smaller alt-coin ETFs. And then I do think, like, it's now, like, folks are starting to invest in crypto more and more, but they dip their toe into BTC first. After a while, maybe they move into something like Ether Salana.

But I think except for like a small percentage of DGens that are probably not putting in a ton of money, I don't think people are going all in on these kind of lower tail or longer tail alt-coin. So I think it will be about the flows. But to Richard's point, though, like the crypto people do know what Hedera is. And I don't think he's implying that there would be massive flows into it at Hedera. Adera ETF, but it is the kind of news that would move the token for the people who like to trade tokens. It is up like 16%.

But I don't think it's crazy to think that, holy crap, like something like Hedera after we've only really had Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs would have a more sizable move. And that is not in my mind dependent on whether like the mainstream has heard of Hedera specifically. Yeah, it sounds more like a, probably like a medication they take for their high cholesterol. or something. Wow. If you had some one scenario, but still, crypto people know and you would think that since they're all degenerates, they're going to kind of trade on news like that.

Yeah. That was my point. I was doing it a bit of tongue-in-cheek to try and open it up, and I think it's symbolic of where we all. I think it's where we were with some symbolically where we are with old seasons. So, you know, we've got to just keep hoping that, you know, something happens because this certainly hasn't done much. Eric.

Eric. So, I mean, other than being a great name for a cholesterol medication, which I agree, Scott, I think the news on Hedera gives license to everyday, you know, CIOs and CFOs who were looking to build in the Hedera ecosystem, additional cover when they go to their board of directors. Because if you look at the council that makes up, I think it's 30 people that sit on the Hedera Council, many of those names are already Fortune 500, Boeing, et cetera, that haven't traditionally really played in the crypto markets. But when they're able to go back to their board or their investment council and say,

look, Hedera has now got its own ETF, it expands the conversation. And so, yes, a pump on the token itself is probably to be expected just from, you know, the crypto markets themselves. but the larger implication is where this, you know, ETF launch takes the conversation in the long term. And I think that's nothing but bullish. And so as you see additional alts come into the space, I think it's actually really a great harbinger

for the larger ecosystem, if you will, because this just expands the players that are involved. And again, knowing the team at Hedero, like Tom from the council side and some of their other folks, like they're serious people. They've got the pedigree of, you know, kind of the blue chip technology players. And so that's where they've been looking to drive this for a long time. And so I think they're probably, you know, popping champagne over at their offices because this is the exact sort of thing that'll be a catalyst for where they go over the next 18 to 24 months.

And so I, my hallucination would be that you're going to see some major probably partnership announcements in the next three to six months because there's now additional cover for, you know, these folks might have been reticent. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense. I wasn't trying to be dismissive of Hedera specifically in any way, shape, or form, just to be clear. No, no, no, no. I know. I actually laughed. Trust me. I laughed out loud. Yeah, and I do think it speaks to kind of what Dave was talking about before and what we can talk about here with all of the news flow is that at this point, all of these massive news stories that kind of just pass in the flow and don't really move price, it's because it's a mature market, and it's just plumbing at this

point. Like all of these things, Dave, you talk about this all the time, like, in six months or a year, we'll look back and be like, damn, that was big. Exactly. And I want to jump on Eric's point because he said something that matters. And I don't think people truly appreciate. So if you're a company and you are investing and building in the ecosystem of a digital asset it opens up the possibility for strategic investment in said digital asset people probably don't know this but pretty much every single fortune whatever thousand firms have unless they're you know bitcoin bankrupt or a zombie company but they tend to make not so trivial strategic investments in companies whenever their involvement in the company

is likely to increase the asset value of that company. So if you consider, you know, you consider that, if you consider there's a company that called Market, which now is part of its merger with S&P, but it became a multi-billion dollar company because all of its main users of its data and it started with credit default swap data, but it doesn't matter what it was.

All were, you know, took a stake and ended up owning 50% of the company. a combination of usage fees and investment. And it's a really good business model for a operational firm. So if you think about how they do it, are these operational firms going to buy tokens and hold them in custody wallets? No.

Are they going to trust an intermediary that maybe has a credit rating lower than theirs? Maybe not. But will they trust an ETS to hold in Treasury for a token that represents an equity in developing in? Well, yeah, and it's a perfectly rational thing to do if you're in doing, working with Adair, if you're working with Salana, if it was in any of these, it all of a sudden becomes important. Once again, it doesn't happen overnight, but it becomes something that, you know,

if you're the CIO of a company and you've decided to invest millions of dollars of building technology based on Salana, for example, why the hell wouldn't you talk to your strategic investment people and say, listen, guys, we're going to make this more valuable. You may want to participate. And that will happen. those conversations are probably happening now. And that's what the ETS open up. Sorry.

I don't know if you see the hands, but Concenton said to end up. I don't even see Constantine on stage. That's what I was afraid of. So Constantine, sorry. No worries, guys. Yeah, we literally, guys, I know, I know we actually like people will often be like,

I was a guest and I raised my hand and nobody called on me. What's going on? Like, we probably literally don't see you. So sometimes you guys just have to jump in. I'm sorry. No worries. Like, that teaches me. Like, it's a fascinating conversation. To be honest, I'm not much to that about Haderer.

I was not looking into them. Like, and I was actually more bullish about the circle announcement. I don't know if you've seen, like, you know, they now are talking about their own blockchain with ARC. And they have BlackRock, Visa, AWS, and Anthropic who are jumping into this, like, which is pretty big announcement. And they're going to push forward to it. And there is another announcement by BlackRock today, like, which that, you know, is a C. to like, you know, that, you know, the crypto and gold are not-for-profit making tools, but their protection against currency debasement and global instability.

Now, of course, we knew it all the way, you know, like even like maybe 10 years ago, whoever, like, were the OGs here. But hearing it now from the major institutions, you know, that basically investors hold these assets not out of greed, but out of fear of losing their savings, that is like, really important. And just as a friendly suggestion, I don't know if anyone has a chance to read a BlackRock investor letter this year. It's, I would highly recommend. And if you have, like, you know, the CFOs or the family offices you want to approach and you need some reputable name and, like, you know, with the primer that helps you to indicate the key narratives and the key

points, like one of the biggest asset manager holds $10 trillion aUM, I think that can be good one and they talk about you know they're about the infrastructure then there's the next level of the private credits like real estate equities and fixed income um and i love the quote from there that the tokenization is not a crypto experiment it's the modernization of markets so if we look at what's happening right now like i'm actually a little bit just just to jump up i don't know also like on the bnb network i was watching lately with all the like liquidity injections and with the latest burn of like 33rd quarterly burn when they destroyed more than almost 1.5 million B&B

worth of $1.6 billion, I think they have a very good run and fun fact, I don't know if you've seen also this fun news that there is a projected statue installation in Washington, D.C., you know, that's anonymous raised 50,000 to installed a four-meter golden monument to CZ. So anyone who's traveling there might enjoy probably going to stand next to Trump. And yeah, it's going to be fun.

But just a lot of new updates, which are like, I don't know, maybe making me more bullish. And one thing that I was also looking this morning that the decks platforms are. So first time I think they exceeded $2 trillion, like with, you know, hyper-liquid lighter and aster leading the flow but there is a lot of new

contenders coming to this right and that's also i think is a very good indicator because most of the time dexes have very very very organized order books and very like transparent so i'm really excited about this as well i saw lou next so lose right no there's a lot there from constantine I actually, you know, some news that I thought was, you know, meaningful and it has been impactful. And I don't know if you guys discussed it on a previous show, but, you know, just over the last couple of days, this X402 standard for, you know, the Coinbase built around agent to agent payment, you know, has started to, you know, climb precipitously in terms of usage. literally just over the last week. And as a result is, yeah, I think brought renewed interest,

your interest back to the intersection of Web 3 and AI, which, yeah, I think everybody should realize is going to be huge. Yeah, we had talked about when the announcement happened the way they were doing it, but certainly kind of fell off the radar since then, Lou. So, yeah, they should put that back on. Yeah, I mean, they announced, I think, back in April.

Yeah, I remember talking about it. and then obviously forgetting about it. So interesting to that that's actually happening. As with all things in crypto, right? Go ahead, Richard. Yeah, just to keep the crypto theme, maybe just a bit of a tangent, but we certainly being traditional investors

and marketing partners with the various aspects of what we do, I would say some of the most interesting projects we've spoken to in the last three months. are all really utility-based. And I sense things have really shifted towards real utility. And, you know, if you've been in crypto a long time, and, you know, Scott, I know you've probably had some experience in this, you know, in possibly being offered opportunities and stuff like that. You know, you're kind of going with the narrative what's hot in that particular time.

But, you know, the things like prediction markets, there's just a whole new flurry of new projects that are getting strong backing in prediction. So obviously, with the rampant success of polymarketers, in Kalski. And, you know, this perplex thing is, it looks like it's really got some stickiness, you know, seeing real competitors to the likes of hyperliquid and Aster. And I'm really encouraged, you know, having been entrenched in the space for eight years, that finally, you know, we're starting to build technology that potentially,

circumvent bearish type elements, although, you know, with underlying tokens, those are going to be incumbent to fairly strong market conditions, but I think no different to anything else. But yeah, and just seeing this, you know, we chat to a lot of projects that work in the agentic space as well, and there's this, you know, this new protocol that's come out that's going to make this agent-to-agent transaction more effective. So aside from all that's going on a macro. It's like, is crypto paying attention to how do we just continue to grind and build to make stuff that people are going to use to bring the masses? I mean, it used to be gaming and used to be social fire. And these things have been, unfortunately, been very, very difficult

to get user acquisition up. But I think something is definitely shifting. Yeah, Scott, you made a point this morning, which I think bears repeating. I'm sorry if you made it right in the beginning of this when I was going through security, which was that even Michael Saylor made the comment that he's more constructive on the rest of crypto, which I interpret to me and he's publicly willing to admit what you and I have been saying for years, which is there are use cases. There will be modernization of the financial system, and that creates opportunities for certain crypto assets, obviously not for ridiculous junk. But I think that matters, And that speaks to what Richard is talking about.

There is a massive total address of the market here, and it's going to come up against a lot of institutional resistance with seeing that with stableclones, right? You know, the whole no-reield stuff. But what's going around it is the more interoperability you get, and that's where the serpent is actually a big deal. That's where we're, and also not have a, you know, conversation quickly on executive about whether,

when you know that the giants are going to look for interoperability, which is going to make and change the way all these payments are done. And so there are massive opportunities here. We'll see whether they're in tokens or inequities, you know, and new companies or not. But it is a very big change. And I don't think that's a massive understanding. Okay, good.

Yeah, I did not talk about that here, Dave, by the way. Yeah, I said it on my show earlier this morning, but I made a classic ice-breaking XRP joke to Sailor. And he told me privately, he was like, I think you'd find if we had a conversation about all coins, it would be much more constructive than in the past. So very different, different approach there from him. Go ahead, Austin. Sorry. Yeah, not a problem. I just want to leg on to what Dave is saying about building in this space is, I guess what's the right way to say this. We've eaten a decent amount of low-hanging fruit already.

That's not to say there's not more, but as you get into payments world, things get harder, more scale, distribution matters more, some of the core principles of crypto around censorship resistance and decentralization start to come into conflict with things like, you know, what the law is or consumer protection. So I don't think it's going to be easy. And I think one of the things you may find back to the divergence in prices that we're seeing in some cases is the gains will not necessarily. go to tokens, right? Like put differently, if there's a huge explosion of stable coins globally and everybody is using them, do the benefits of that accrue to, like, actual companies, to networks, to the consumers? I'm not sure that picture is nearly as clear. And if you're thinking about what to buy and how the market is going to react, and this is seen as call it uniformly bullish for one specific vector, I think you need to ask some more questions. You know, somebody's been involved in that space for a while. while. If no one wants to jump in, I want to pile on that because that's a very important point. And there will be benefit to you tokens. There's no doubt about that.

But understand that if you're, the farther you get away from the consumer, the farther you get away from the higher margin, the more likely you are to become a commoditized asset. Commodotized assets do not have the evaluation. that we tend to get crypto where we're not to vote without looking at being monetizing and we need to understand that and that's my big argument with the xrp army for and most of them believe in that right i mean they talked about you know xrp at work more than gold is today right actually some of them have it as like 10x what gold is today and and they don't understand that that would you know their entire

value proposition untenable it's just simply too expensive to be used you know and you just just need to understand and hear things go. And, you know, look, XRP has been one of the best at changing its narrative, right? You know, it started as a payment's a thing because he could buy it in one place and sell it another. That's gone. That literally does not exist. It's not all in this. The core technology it was used for is useless compared to state of the points because it's dramatically inferior. That's not that the plate doesn't have other things. It doesn't it's a block trade or whatever. But people when they understand narratives have to, to actually look at where values and there's going to be massive value to you have to ask

yourself why and we think about it and understand and ask questions and so what I would say my most important advice I give to people isn't to be bearish in any sense if I'm not bearish that's our people to be wants I'm not what in fact I think it's a trade it will probably continue to be another Bitcoin but the truth is if you are part of a quote community and you slavishly think like William Kitty did with great GameStop, but you're going to get the same thing to happen again. Well, good luck with that. That's a one-frey coin.

It doesn't happen to that much. So all season, where you just throw a dart or anything you hit is going to be a scenic. I don't think we see that again. I think that that's something different. I think that that won't happen in crypto. It may happen in some things. It could be from a new cycle, it comes up, AI agents, whatever.

There's so many things that could happen in. But there's a broad notion that just because you have a token, it's going to go higher, no. That's, I think those days are behind us. It'll be something else. So just like we didn't see that in the Internet stocks again, you know, for when it happened. It didn't mean that huge value of the Internet stocks,

but it wasn't, you know, a thousand of them all going up. Boy, I'm stunned. Nobody wants to react to that. I thought I would have switched off a lot of these old data, but by that, that way that way. I tend to agree, so. Yeah, I'm trying to see if there's any other. I know we've got to, I think, I believe there's a sponsor joining in five minutes.

But we could circle back, no pun intended, to the circle stable coin and the fact that they are launching the public test net of their own blockchain. Because I think it's a big conversation to have about how stable coins are going to make money once interest rates come way down, which we know is what Trump wants. Well, there's two aspects of that. One is, has anybody ever in a place where they didn't let him get away with Fluff, asked Tom Lee about how is it that Ethereum is the biggest beneficiary of stable coins? If the two largest stable coins, one is building their own with a consortium, and the other has a penchant for going to the, you know, multiple networks and having the most use on the networks that are cheaper and more efficient to operate. Obviously, I'm talking about Circle and Heather. I would love to hear his answer that question.

Nothing there isn't one. I would really love to hear him say it. Anybody who doesn't answer that? I'll take that as it now. I just say I have not, no. Wouldn't you find that interesting, Scott? I mean, that is... Yes, obviously.

Yeah, so when you finally get him in an interview, you'll have to ask him that question. Yeah, I want to ask that since Brian's here, and we've got a couple more minutes. Brian, are you surprised, obviously, since you are the chief strategy officer at a Salon the Treasury Company that Salon is taking ETF launches are not moving price more? I didn't get to ask you before. I'm not.

I think, like, both folks had really expected this to happen. I think especially after, like, the generic listing standards were introduced, and folks saw, like, all these amendments to all the spot ETS. FS-1s, I think everybody basically knew that this was coming. So I think the simple fact that it came and it actually happened so quickly, like to my understanding, they just added this certain amendment that allowed the registration statement to go effective after 20 days. And it was almost like, oh, all of a sudden, it's happening tomorrow. And there was no really like built-up anticipation in front of it. I'm not actually even sure that everybody knows about it. So to me, yeah,

I go back to my comment. I think a lot of it will be about flows. I do think like the flows will be somewhere on a relative size basis between what we saw with Bitcoin and what we saw with Ethereum, which, you know, I'll take. Like, that would be really strong. So, yeah, I think that's the key thing that I'll be watching going forward. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Solana, I think, is so deeply ingrained. reigns now in the narrative that this is not the same environment as when, you know, the Bitcoin

ETF launched. And I think it's also important to remember that the ETH ETF launch was horrible for a year before ETH even even got a bid. So we, looking at the Bitcoin ETF launch as an example for all other ETF launch might be disingenuous. I mean, Dave, don't you think? Well, yeah. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about ETH as it, as it's a, cratered before. It didn't just drop below 2000. It cratered through 2000. It was trading it in 1600, right? You know, and then Tom Lee comes in and says, and this is post-UTFSIGA at this point comes in and says, wait a minute, guys, this is the asset you really want to own. And so two million, man, it triples. I mean, literal triple to the top, for the hive,

you know, which, you know, if you're a $100 million asset, that's no big deal. But, you know, you're talking multi-hundred billion dollar asset, right? You know, that's a very, very large group in a very short period of time. And so if I'm sitting in Solana, and I'm a fifth of the size of the ether thereabouts, and attacking a similar, if not, you know, whatever, addressable market, I'm looking at this saying, well, you know, I don't know when, but it's not going to take a whole lot to get a lot of people excited. I mean, you know, it really depends who the winners are.

This whole thing with agentic, you know, payments is not small. And there's two aspects to it. There's what will be the value that's exchanged? Will it be some version of Bitcoin or Ethereum? Will it be various whatever's? Will it be, you know, stable coins in the yacht? You know, we don't know, right? You know, we have no ideas.

The same thing is true, but the other piece is what they're going to run on. And it's that we run on something where that matters. So all of those are the questions. And we really don't understand or know. Anyone who says they know, well, I mean, they have strong conviction. They don't know. There's a big difference. And so that's why you're saying what you're seeing.

Right. I mean, Richard, I'm too assuming you have conversations with investors about this. And you're basically saying, yeah, this is a pretty good bet for that. I mean, am I being too simple in thinking that it makes the marketing team for these banks so much easier if you're having a conversation about a larger asset class than just having to circle, you know, go around in circles with Bitcoin and ETH, when actually it is quite a compelling case for certainly some of them.

I mean, we've agreed that Solana has certainly proven. We wrote about this in a report ironically and then this news came out. But like I had to go and, I mean, there was only so much information I could dig up about, you know, the 20 odd ETS that were pending with the major banks. But it was more just the reason why. And so when you go to the obvious metrics, I mean, it's got some fantastic metrics. And while they might not be Wall Street's type numbers, they're still impressive.

And I just would imagine that, I mean, there are any people on the panel that have done this before that have pounded the tar and had to go and sell these kind of instruments and use some kind of a narrative? if you're selling into an emerging market or into commodities where you're selling, you know, coffees, you know, surely it makes it easy that they're able to sell, you know, selection of 10 cryptos. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Absolutely. It's been a great conversation. We do have, we do have TFI up on stage.

So I wanted to take a few minutes to specifically chat, chat with them and thank them for being a sponsor and joining. So first of all, who's behind the account there? Who are we talking to? Hey, hey, guys. Does it mean you all? I'm the CEO and founder. Pleasure being here. Sorry, I lost the connection there.

Can you guys hear me? Good. Hopefully, you can't really hear you were breaking up a little bit, but hopefully it was my connection and not yours. So here, let's start. Maybe you just give us the TLDR, what's TFI? And I know you describe yourself as a defy-fi super app. So what does that mean?

I definitely know it was your connection and not mine. We'll find that's enough. Yeah, so the TLDR is basically defa is fragmented, too complex. I mean, not embodying anything like that. And we take all the core and the ventilars of crypto from wallets, yield, swap, bridge, on and off, prom, etc. And we integrate them under a file interface. So the user gets directed.

And we just obstruct everything away. So no seed phrase, no chain fragmentation, no gas feed, just being crypto easy. Perfect. Yeah, you have a little glitch on your phone, but I think we can still hear you. So perhaps you can walk us through what it actually looks like as a user if you're using this compared

to traditional defied apps? Yeah, so currently doesn't matter almost which defy application you're using. You cannot use only this application. So if you want to swap and you swap, you have your wallet on Metamass. And even like liquidation on Arveth, then it's been routed through the next-as every tooling is relying on other tools and basically it doesn't matter how good metamask UXUI is and how good after XUI are beautiful the fact that the user need to go from one tool to another tool and get used to completely different experiences that's hurting

the experience so I think one of the main things we come to face so you never have to get used to new internet, but you only have you want to be one. Got it. Awesome. So what inspired you to create this? Like, uh, you know, what's your background and how did you decide this is what you wanted to build? Yeah, so, uh, I think it was a story maybe like a million times by now. Um, I'm sorry for everyone in the audience who already heard it. I started my crypto journey about 10 years ago, I'm currently 24, by the way, which is relatively young. But, yeah, I was doing very well, you know, 20, especially 21, the old season, etc.

It was very easy to make money, and other words, like, asking what I'm doing, etc., and I started on boarding people to crypto space. and it's uh kind of uh i did to it and uh i think for the past six seven years i've been born around the 500 people to the crypto space like person one-one uh which is quite a lot and uh yeah like i think usually when we look now at the crypto space and you don't have enough fees to transfer uCT which is like the most classical right then you get used to it right but and over time we just get used to everything humans have uh humans are adapting that's what we do but because so many people over and over again uh struggling with all things didn't have this luxury of adapting uh and i was trying very hard to find a solution

that's actually like A to Z make it make it better and it's unfortunately it's like there weren't really I don't if it's a good place

about like so-called competitors but yeah couldn't find a real solution for that so what specifically are the pinpoints I guess that you saw with DFI that you saw with DFI that

need to solve and how does that make you different from other defy platforms yeah so one of the things I just mentioned is the is the point of the unify interface so you have thing in one up you don't need to go to any any other app and another thing is when you bring this kind of variety usually I Until now, people choose either black or white. So if you bring that's kind of a wide variety. Either you say, I'm going to give the user everything you can dream of.

And then you get overwhelmed. For example, like in OKX wallet, a Big Git wallet, then they're kind of trying to be your one stop shop. But it's like for a new user, there are hundreds and hundreds of tools and services and options there that almost no one needs. And it's really, really hot in the experience. Then on the side, defy up and an Infinix, which are really, really trying to abstract away the experience. You don't even have a browser, right? and you don't really have the, like, ability to flow.

So the limiting user, like, similar to what Apple is doing, like only what I say. And I have many other ways in sense. I think the first one is obvious. Like, it's unbearable for new users. And the slater is actually sounds like it makes us the beginning. It's, you know, pamp.fam.com or, or point. a million or virtual or a million other things that coming up like we had a few days

a few people suddenly everybody like want to use it and when you get to this point like you get to this world of crypto where it's totally changing you don't have like you can't assume that you will like tell them what they want to do and etc and they and they and they will accept that because there's so much expression there's so many like every other day every other week there is this thing

that you have to have inside so you have to have this like gray zone between this white and black where you give the users a clean and a holistic but it's still allowed them to to explore and I think

that's what we do the best great and so I was reading about this and you have something called teapot maybe you can explain that to me and how that actually works within TFI yeah I just say right away don't me but we love acronyms and and I love the TIP so the TIP stands for the everything up protocol on the Treasury which is

as the name as is a very by the call there is a very cool meta now

which I really like to see that the revenue like a revenue like a revenue and I think that's a very good idea

like I think it doesn't make sense that that was so much that generate any any revenue to sustain that

but I also think that the this meta is acceptable because this market works in euphoric cycles in bullet cycles and as long as everything goes good then you do a lot of buybacks but the moment things are getting bad and if people get less for it so they're more likely to sell than you actually have less by pressure and more self-pressure so it doesn't really make sense

it makes sense as long everything goes well um so what we do with the thought is instead of funneling the revenue towards the post-parek we funneling it to a possibility that will be generating yield and this yield will go towards the buyback so right even at the beginning the end of the buyback will be like relatively a bit smaller like it will necessarily be growing basically forever. So there's obviously a, I'm reading the T-token, T-E-A. How does that work in the ecosystem and, I mean, I guess discuss the tokenics and all the partnerships that sort of drive the token?

Yeah, so regarding, I don't think technology is that interesting, but regarding the token utility, So there is the classics of the governance, which we are trying to actually make a bit cooler and make it monetizable, if it's sort of like a bribe economy, and fees this account and in the inside the platform. I think something pretty cool is that we're doing is that we are going to have a lot of different projects and companies join the, T-put standard and they will be air-dropping their tokens to T-stakers. T-staking works in a model similar to what a curve doing with the VE-3-3, like the longer you lock, the more, basically, the more influence you have and the more weight you have. I think it's a great way, especially now with Web 3 opening, like, the whole. whole world, even like Web3, like T3 countries, so-called.

So basically, no matter how much money you have, you can compensate that with loyalty. And, yeah, that's basically what you can do with the T-token. And regardless of, like, the demand from that, there is also the constant demand, ever-growing by design from the T-POT. Yeah. And I know we've really got a couple minutes left here. So maybe just talk a bit about community. And then, you know, future plans and things should be looking for people should be looking

for from you guys moving forward. Yeah. So, regarding community, actually, I don't have anything to others. We just take this stage to sit at the end here. It's been a very, very, very long journey. I didn't start it's a very big milestone very soon. I really appreciate each and every one of the time. It's been, I think the support got for the very early days when we had so

in the platform were insane. And I think it's really the product fit and it got in plans of the future. I think two very short things, one, we are about to introduce the new app so we currently call the app beta asking me why we put it better so we have partnered with a company called midside they designed the like Siri for Apple Robin Hood Spotify and many other beautiful brands so that we're doing a complete redesign restructure of the whole that's already have some screenshots that we'll be sharing very soon with the community and I think it's the

beautiful app I've seen in my life. And I think one of the people in the community waiting for a lot is the PAAs, like the protocol applications that will adopt the T. So we have actually more than one of them live. And many more than 2026. So I think that's going to be one of the most exciting part. And especially for the potential. expansion of the ecosystem and I'll talk about it. Awesome, though. Thank you for joining and for sharing all that. Obviously, you guys,

you follow TFI underscore official. It's right up on stage. Give them a follow. I'm a ton. That was good. We worked through the technical glitches there. It sounds very, very exciting and good luck with everything you're doing. Everyone else. Another great episode of CryptoTen. Oh, we will be back tomorrow at 10.15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Thanks for joining everybody. Thanks to T. Pie. And we'll see you guys tomorrow. Bye. Thank you.