The Wolf Of All Streets - Building A Nation And Bitcoin with Memli Krasniqi, VP of the Democratic Party of Kosovo

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

Memli Krasniqi helped build a nation from scratch, something that few living people can claim to have accomplished. As one of the founding fathers of Kosovo, Memli has participated in every aspect of nation building, from penning the Constitution to building infrastructure and conceiving the very core institutions of government. He was also a famous rapper! His life is worthy of a Hollywood Blockbuster, and his passion for Bitcoin is central to his beliefs about what the nation of Kosovo should ideally be.  Scott Melker and Memli Krasniqi further discuss 90’s rappers, discovering Bitcoin in 2013, rapping anti-establishment music, living through apartheid, 100,000s of thousands of displaced people, Kosovo becoming free in 2008, becoming the Vice-President of the Democratic Party of Kosovo, signing the declaration of independence, rebuilding a country from the ground up, shaping government around the ideals of Bitcoin and more. --- CELSIUS With the Celsius app you can earn up to 15% APY rewards on over 30 cryptocurrencies. Have crypto but want cash? Celsius also offers the lowest cost loans against your crypto with interest rates starting at just 1% APR. Enter promo code WOLF when you sign up and get $20 in BTC! Users must transfer and hold at least $200 of any coin for 30 days to be eligible for the reward. --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe.This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

I'd like to thank my sponsors, Celsius, for making this episode possible. Stay tuned later in the episode for more info. What is up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, and this is the Wolf of All Streets podcast. Today's guest is hands down one of the most fascinating people we've ever had on the show. Memli Krasnicki grew up in Kosovo, a country located in the Balkans, which is about the size of Jamaica. Just a little over 10 years ago, I think about 12

to be exact, Kosovo officially declared its independence from Serbia, becoming one of the world's youngest countries. Memli played a pivotal role in conceiving and designing the government as vice president of the Democratic Party and a number of other roles. The story of their path to independence is incredible, as is the role played by this young former economic student and rapper. Yes, I said rapper. Memli was a big rapper in Kosovo. So during his time in government, Memli also managed to discover Bitcoin, which fundamentally shaped his worldview and in some ways, I would imagine, the development of Kosovo. So we have a lot to talk about. Memli, thank you so much for coming

on the show. Hey, Scott, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be in your podcast. Awesome. So before we get into the questions, once again, you're listening to the Wolf of Wall Street's podcast where twice a week I talk to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, trading, art, music, sports, and politics. Some of the guests are all of those things, which seems to be the case today. So this show is powered by Blockworks Group, a media company with over 20 podcasts in their network. You can check them out at blockworksgroup.io. And if you like the podcast, follow me on Twitter. You need to check out the website and join my newsletter. You can do both of those things at thewolfofallstreets.io. So

Memli, is someone planning to make a movie or documentary about your life, or should we go ahead and buy the rights to that now and get it started? Probably not. I'm not sure if it would be an interesting movie for a lot of people, but thank you. I haven't thought of that. I think it would be great. So I want to go dive right into your Bitcoin story and how you found Bitcoin,

because I know that that was something you're extremely passionate about and definitely, as I've read before, has somewhat shaped your worldview. So how did you discover Bitcoin in the first place? Well, probably it was maybe about 2014 or maybe 2013 that I first heard about Bitcoin and internet. And it was an interesting new concept that I was introduced to. The problem was I kept searching the Google and other search engines trying to read stuff, but there was not a lot of material,

especially for the uninitiated like myself, to make it easy to understand. So one of the first things that I would get, you know, was very cryptographic related things like the Satoshi white paper and stuff that I was not really ready to understand that much. I actually tried to buy my first Bitcoin at some point in late 2014. It turned out to be quite complicated for me residing in Kosovo. I really didn't know much back then. I didn't know what the wallet was or how everything worked. The exchanges that were around were not catering for the Euro denomination, which is the official currency also in Kosovo.

And then, you know, mostly due to my work, daily job, I was serving the government as a minister throughout that period. It was on and off. At some point just before the 2016 Halloween, I found one of the exchanges which was basically quite good in regards to the volumes in Euro. So that's how I sent my money for the first time in the exchange and bought my Bitcoin before the Halloween in anticipation of just like the last time we had the Halloween a few months ago, in anticipation of, you know, the price increase and stuff like that, which worked fine. So I made my first investment in Bitcoin, I think it was in June 2016. And then I also bought some ETH and Litecoin and whatever was available

in the exchange back then. There was not so many cryptocurrencies around. But that is basically when I sort of got into Bitcoin and from then on, I was involved with day in and day out more and more. I mean, whatever time I had spare that I could use, I kept reading stuff. I kept understanding it better. really got to a point where I became a believer in the whole concept of blockchain, first and foremost, but of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. It's interesting. So a lot of us have a very similar story, of course, like you come, you

hear about the speculative asset, you want to make money, right? And then you start to dig deeper and you understand how important it is. But not many of us are building a government while we're having that experience. Right. So I would imagine that what you discovered about Bitcoin and blockchain sort of fundamentally altered the view of how you saw Kosovo developing. Is that fair to say? Well, I think in the ideological perspective, the blockchain and Bitcoin fit in quite well with my beliefs with regard to a small government and a government that doesn't interfere a lot with the lives of the people and something which somehow borders libertarian ideals. I wouldn't say I'm a libertarian per se,

but being very liberal in terms of the economy and free markets and small government, I think it sort of played well into what I believed ideologically, how governments should work and what governments should do. And having in mind that we were building a new country, it was like a startup country.

It was, you know, basically we declared independence as you said in February 17th of 2008. It was around that time when I think Satoshi and the pioneers were working on Bitcoin. I think there are parallels that you can draw and the way that Kosovo has developed, obviously we had to build institutions, we had to build a straight, not from scratch completely, but almost from scratch, because before that, Kosovo undertook about almost a decade of international administration under a UN mandate.

So most of the institutions were functioning. We had a parliament, we had a government, but still it was not fully independent. It was overseen and finally overruled by this UN administration. And obviously, throughout my time in government, be it in the executive branch or in the legislative branch, as I am currently, I could say that it has, at least on a personal level, informed my way of thinking and how government should work. So there are a lot of people who talk about small government and sort of libertarian ideals and the things you're mentioning. But as you said, I mean, that's actually a reality in Kosovo, right?

I know that you have low taxes, right? I mean, maximum tax rate is 10%. Is that correct? It is. So how are you able to actually implement that and keep the country, which you said is like a startup company, but keep the country running? Well, I think it's important that taxes are low. It's an incentive for companies to invest more. And I believe that the more investment there is, it's a direct influence in more entrepreneurship. One thing that people need to know is that Kosovo is not only in terms of its independence the youngest country in Europe and among the youngest in the world,

but we also have the youngest population in Europe. Our average age in Kosovo is about 25 years. About 57% of the population is 35 and younger. Almost everybody in these age groups and further speak English. They're well connected to the internet. Actually, the internet penetration rate in Kosovo is about 90%, which is more than some of the European Union countries. People are well connected to what's going on in the world, so there's a lot of people that have really good skills in ICT and entrepreneurship in general. So it was very important that Kosovo basically creates an environment, political,

economic, but also a tax environment, which provides opportunities for young businesses, small and medium enterprises to thrive. And having a set profit tax, corporate tax of 10%, I think it was very helpful. I mean, comparing to most of the other countries which have huge tax rates, this has been helpful, yes. I mean, for the country, it would have been easier to collect more money

from a bigger tax, but that would have definitely affected the profits and the incentives for businesses, but also for the people, because also our income tax is scaled. It starts at 6% for really low salaries, but it's 10% for the higher salaries. So at the end of the day, I think it's just fear that, you know, people keep the biggest share of the money they actually work to make. And in that sense, it's also in that, let's say,

center-right ideological sphere, which I myself am a member of or a participant, it plays well in that sense. What other policies do you have in place that sort of echo this smaller government, you know, more freedom for the people sentiment? Well, since, you know, it's a new country, I think we have the benefit of having been able to see the best morals that exist out there in terms of how we draft our constitution and how we basically design our state. The parliament has the highest importance. It enacts laws, it passes laws, it elects the government. And the government, which is the executive branch, basically is the, let's say, the wing that implements these policies and has the executive power.

We have also a president, which doesn't have, in the American sense, the authority and the executive power. We have also a president which doesn't have, in the American sense, the authority and the executive power. But it's, let's say, it has some responsibilities, not completely like just a symbolic role like many other European countries have, but still, I mean, the most important branches are the legislative and the executive. It's quite a fair checks and balances between us on one hand. On the other hand, the constitution is, I would say, very modern. It provides for Kosovo to be not a country of one people. I mean, Albanians are the vast majority of citizens in Kosovo, about 94% of the overall population, but we didn't create a country which is the country of Albanians and others.

We created a country which is of its own citizens. And I think the equality and the equality of opportunities is enshrined in this constitution, we have, I think, the highest level of protection for minority community rights, such as guaranteed seats in the parliament, no matter the number of the votes that they have. So out of 120 seats in the parliament in Kosovo, 20 are reserved for minority representatives, and other things which basically provide for utmost respect of human rights and liberties, and obviously also in the economic rights. Overall, we have tried, as I said, to get the best examples and the best

working models from other countries from their experiences and put them in this new country that we've built. It sounds so sensible and so easy because I'm American, obviously, and the two party system is so entrenched here. It sounds like you sort of have the best policies of each side and it sounds simple. It's just so difficult anywhere else, I guess, that's been established for longer to have those sort of sensible compromises. Because when you talk about the minorities and, you know, the minority seats in parliament, that's something that would probably be viewed as very left in the United States, obviously, and the fiscal policy would lean more right. So it's just really interesting to hear and,

you know, you hear it explained, it just sounds so sensible. As I said, I want to touch on, go ahead. No, I mean, yes, I think that could be interpreted as such. But beyond the ideological divide that is, you know, everywhere, here the thinking was that we need to have a perspective on human rights of the people, first and foremost. And quotas like this, so guaranteed seats for minorities, or a quota for the parliament. We have a 30% guaranteed quota for women representation in the parliament. So even though it's a direct election and there's multi-party elections in parliament, all these parties need to have at least 30% of women in the list and no matter how many votes they each get at least 30 mps of each uh political party need to be from the ranks of women that are running uh and uh you know yes sometimes this could be considered a bit on the left side but they have helped now i wouldn't say

things are ideal and if you ask uh uh various in Kosovo, they will probably have their disagreements normally with the government or the way that the politics are working, and rightfully so. I've been critical of myself for many years, and basically that's why I got into politics, because just the criticism couldn't fix things. So I thought I could do things from within easier than from without. But still, we're 12 years old. And my eldest daughter is 12 years old. She's preteen, so we're a preteen country.

At least it doesn't behave like preteen girls, though, because they're terrifying. So you touched on the fact before that you have one of the youngest populations, certainly in Europe and probably in the world, an average around 25 years and most of the country under the age of 35. Is that a result of war and the way that the country was developed? What is that a function of? I think it's actually historical. that the country was developed? What is that a function of?

I think it's actually historical. Obviously the war has left a lot of scores. It's been 21 years since the war ended, but it was a very difficult period. And not only in 1998 and 1999, where there was a proper war, armed, where we fought a liberation war against an occupying force, which was in Kosovo effectively since 1989, but throughout that period, these ten years, Kosovo suffered heavily. We lived a sort of a parallel life because the state of Yugoslavia was disintegrating. Serbia was creating wars with other former entities of Yugoslavia, starting in Slovenia,

and then in Croatia, and then in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and finally in Kosovo. And throughout these years, Kosovo was under an apartheid system, which was effectively an armed military occupation. And I say a parallel life because we were kicked out of our schools. We were not able to be educated in the school buildings which we had. Our parents were kicked out of their jobs in the public sector. And obviously until then, it was all it was. And a lot of young people had to leave due to political, but also economic reasons.

And that's why we, to this day, we have a thriving diaspora. There's about a million Kosovo Albanians living abroad, mostly in Europe, but also in the United States and other countries. And all of this has sort of affected the historical trajectory up to this day. But also the fact that we have young population, we used to have the highest, I think it's called also in English, natality rates. So most births per family in all of Europe. I mean, 50 years ago, it was common for Kosovo-Venus families to have seven, eight children. And that is what has helped also the survival of our nation under heavy oppression that we had,

even in the time of Yugoslavia, let alone after 89. That's not the case today. But still, yes, we maintain the youngest age, average age in Europe in the europe continent so you're you're 40 right or about 40 um so you're born in 1980 and lived probably one life as you said for the first nine years of your life and then occupation so what was it like to be i guess nine ten years old and for everything to change like that because it sounds like you spent all of your formative years under occupation. Absolutely. And I think that has shaped everyone in my generation, not only those born in the 80s, but everyone born from the 70s, I think, until the 90s. But being a kid of the 90s, we've had a completely different 90s here than what everyone else

in Europe or in the US had for that matter. I mean, yes, there were, there was the, some of the effects that you've had, I mean, movies and music and stuff like that, which were, especially for myself, music was a refuge and it was an inspiration that, you know, helped me, helped me, helped me get, get by and go further. But it was very difficult. I mean, I was in fifth grade. I was just starting fifth grade when I went to school on the first day and they said, you have to go back home because they're not allowing us to go in.

And, you know, that's a traumatic experience for any kid. And especially for those that are, you know, in their very first few years of education. And then, you know, we had to go back and back. And eventually the elementary schools had completely segregated, physically segregated buildings where, you know, Albanians could go and Serbs could go. And we were like nine to one in terms of numbers. And we still had crammed classes and what have you. But then the high schools and universities, they had to go to private homes.

So there were a lot of people that basically just let their private houses and transformed their living rooms into classrooms. And that went on for about a decade. So on the other hand, it was difficult to get service in the public health system. So, you know, there were Albanian doctors that were kicked out of their jobs who basically made makeshift hospitals for years. People got not only primary care, but also, you know, surgeries and even a tax collection system, which was 3% of whatever everybody was making to sort of finance some of these public services, which were completely parallel. But on top of all of this, you know, we had the state-sponsored systematic oppression and even the physical, the threat to your physical existence,

which obviously culminated in 1998 and 1999. So basically I became a teenager in a very difficult period. And throughout my teenage years, obviously, it was the culmination of this difficult situation and period in life. And obviously, that has informed our way of thinking. It has informed our perception on the world. But I think to try to look at it from a positive perspective, it has helped us a lot in valuing and giving worth to some things that most of the other people in the world used to take for granted, things like freedom and liberty and equality and opportunity.

But you escaped to London to some degree, right? I mean, I know that you went to the London School of Economics. So how, without, you know, I guess, formal schooling, you know, with the public schools, how are you even able to apply and be accepted and, you know, head out of Kosovo to London? That seems like an epic challenge. That was easier because it was in 2005 and the war ended in Kosovo in June 1999. So basically, I finished my elementary and high school education in Kosovo in those difficult circumstances, obviously. But still, there was a formal system.

And I think when I think back, some of our teachers and professors were, I think, quite demanding, maybe because of the fact that they knew that this was difficult, so they really wanted to push us harder. So, you know, so they really wanted to push us harder. So, you know, it's all props to them for that huge contribution for maintaining a somewhat normal system of education.

Then I studied in Kosovo. I mean, after 99, Kosovo was liberated. There was a huge international presence, which I mentioned, the United Nations, but also from NATO and NATO soldiers who were here to maintain peace, including a sizable presence of American soldiers in one of the areas in Kosovo. And then, you know, things started to rebuild. It was not an easy couple of years, but there was a lot of will, a lot of enthusiasm, because it was for the first time ever that Kosovo was breathing freely. So, for example,

although about more than, around a million of people out of less than 2 million were kicked out of Kosovo as we were expelled by Serbian military and police in mostly neighboring countries. About 400,000 were internally displaced due to the war. In three months, about 90% came back, having in mind that this was almost burned to the ground, about 70% of old households were either burned totally or damaged. It was unbelievable. I mean, none of the UN agencies like UNHCR had any plans for that. They thought it's going to take years, but it actually took months because people wanted to come back and contribute and try to rebuild.

And even people that lived and had a steady life in Europe, for example, you know, due to them escaping the oppression in the early 90s, a lot of them came back because they wanted to live in a free Kosovo. So we rebuilt the country. We rebuilt institutions and obviously came back to the buildings, the universities and whatnot. And I finished my studies in Kosovo and I finished my bachelor degree in political science in 2004, actually early 2005. And then I applied for my postgraduate studies in London and London School of Economics was my first choice forever.

So luckily, I was accepted. I was accepted in a few universities, but LSE was my first choice. I wanted to study international relations there, and it was one of the best schools in the world in that field. So yeah, I got an acceptance and i went to london and i spent a bit more than a year there uh doing the uh completing this degree uh and it was one of the good experiences in my life it's awesome so you talk about uh how music sort of during that era played a major part in your life i mean i, I'm 44, so I'm a little older than you, but my teen

years were completely molded by the golden age of hip hop, like 90s rap. Same here. Absolutely. Right. So, A, how did you get access to that music to be passionate about it? And B, when did you become a rapper and how did that happen i want to hear about that well interestingly i i had a relationship with music all my life but for some reason uh no i mean my mom and dad they you know had nothing to do with music but you know as a as a you know really early on uh i i had a special relationship with music. You know, I remember when I was maybe five, imitating Stevie Wonder and, you know, I just cool to say I love you and putting sunglasses

and trying to sing lyrics without understanding anything. And then eventually, you know, I listened. I had people in the family, extended family that, you know, had a lot of LPs and that have traveled Europe and had a huge collection of albums. So I had my sort of music education in their homes and listening to everything that was recorded from the 50s, I think. Then you rightfully ask how we were exposed to this

because obviously it was quite difficult. There was no internet back then and it was a different situation. But in 1990 and 1991, the satellite television channels became huge. You know, satellite dishes. If you would be in Kosovo in 1991 or 1992, every apartment building looked like there's mushrooms there because of the satellite dishes. Everybody had a satellite dish. It was, you know, you would save money from, you know, the necessary things to buy a satellite dish

because like with everything else that I mentioned, Serbia closed down our TV station and radio station. And, you know, you couldn't listen to anything in Albanian. And, uh, uh,

instead of, you know, getting just the state propaganda, the, the way out was to have a satellite TV and, uh, be able to listen to our watch TV shows from abroad. So,

uh, that was one. Uh, MTV Raps, obviously. I was gonna say Fat Five Freddy. Yeah, early on. No, yeah, I mean, Ed Lover and Dr. Dre and all of these guys. Dr. Dre, Ed Lover, Fat Five Freddy. I used to have obviously VHS recorders, I would record most of these shows and re-listen to, you know, the songs that they were playing. And then the other thing that happened is actually bootleg audio tapes.

There was a lot of cassettes that were coming and being sold on the streets. They were all boot all neglect, obviously. But every other week, I would save up money and go out in the main square and see if there's any new album that I would buy. Sometimes I would just know by chance the name of a group or a name of rapper.

And it wasn't only rap, actually. I've listened to all kinds of genres. I always liked the Motown style soul, and R&B, and stuff like that, but I got sort of acquainted more or more attached to rap music because of groups and rappers like, you know, Public Enemy Enemy and NWA and Ice-T and KRS-One and others because basically music helped me understand English early on. So I got a grasp of English maybe when I was 10, 11, 12. So starting understanding the lyrics that were quite anti-establishment, speaking about lack of opportunities and discrimination.

Sort of, I draw sort of a parallel with the life that we were living here. And it felt like, you know, hip hop, rap provided an outlet which, you know, I could use to express myself. And then, you know, eventually I started writing lyrics and songs. I started learning to play the guitar. I never became a good guitar player, but, you know, eventually I started writing lyrics and songs. I started learning to play the guitar. I never became a good guitar player, but an average guitar player. Yeah, I still, you know, knew some chords. I knew some bass lines. I tried to, you know, play these songs and learn these songs.

And then I started writing in Albanian. And eventually, you know, I recorded my first song in 1995, which was, you know, a difficulty in its own. But rap was basically the medium which I sort of saw as the best for me to express not only my anger or frustration with the difficulties that we were going through as people, as individuals, as young people particularly, but also as a way to express my opinions and my thoughts on how things should change. Unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard about the DeFi craze in crypto. By far the safest and simplest way to passively earn in the space is to hold your coins on Celsius. You can earn your rewards in the same crypto you're holding, or you can

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platform whose mission you can believe in. Celsius is giving away $20 to every new user who joins with the promo code WOLF. Just enter the promo code in the app during registration. $20 is awarded after 30 days of maintaining a wallet balance of $200 or more. Visit celsius.network, that's C-E-L-S-I-U-S dot network, and use promo code WOLF, W-O-L-F. That sounds very dangerous. I mean, 1995, you were in the, you know, really in the heat of Serbian occupation and you were making political music, right? I mean, anti-establishment music, political music. I mean, what gave you the gall or the balls, I should say, to do that? Because that had to be hugely risky, right? I mean, if your music

got out you could end up a political prisoner or something as a result of doing that but we were we were still young so i was maybe i was 15 16 when we actually started recording stuff uh i i couldn't record earlier because uh there were maybe a few musicians that had some, you know, small studios. Exactly, where you could record. But then another producer came. He was doing his studies in Austria. And due to family reasons, he left Austria and came back in one of the cities in Kosovo, in Mitrovica. And then I heard one of the songs that he made.

And it was a game changer because nobody could provide good production, something really modern, something that I was looking for. So I didn't know the guy. I asked around. I went to his home, just showed up and said,

I want to work with you. So that's what made it easier. So we sort of clicked. He was a fan of similar music tastes. As I mentioned, Stevie Wonder was my, and still is, my all-time favorite. Me too. Guitars like George Benson. Really, I'm happy to hear that.

And stuff like that. And then, you know, we started recording and basically found a sound, which was not necessarily the sound that I originally thought it was going to be. I listened to a bit more of gangster rap, but then it became a bit more mellow. It had more harmony and chords to it, but it worked better. But we were young,

and I think nobody actually took us that seriously at that time. Plus for the fact that, I mean, I hear nowadays people saying, you know, it's still underground music and I'm underground. There's nothing underground about anything anymore because there's YouTube and there's internet. But underground was back then. We had no radio stations, even if we wanted to play.

We had no TV stations even if we wanted to play we had no TV stations we obviously no internet so the only way was actually the original way of you know recording many cassettes going to bars and asking DJs to play this song eventually we became interesting people knew that one of our songs they didn't really know who we were. Finally, we ended up in Albania in a big festival, which was seen in Kosovo and becoming like the first rap group that had some original material and interesting lyrics, I believe. It sort of helped. But there were problems I mean we would do

we had a parallel life as I said but we had our bars and smaller clubs even in that time and there were occasions where we would play with even with other bands there was a time when we were doing combined shows with a rock band, and, you know, they were helping us out doing the live part of our music. When we would rap, it was two of us, me and a friend of mine in the band. There were at least two occasions where, you know, Serbian police would come and, you know, disperse the people, beat a few, ask us some questions, you know, bully bully us around and just stop the show. But the benefit was bigger.

People liked what we were talking about. They liked our music. And that was the encouraging aspect of it. And this is before 99, obviously. This is before the war. When the actual war escalated in the second half of 98, especially, and end of 98 and early 99, we basically didn't release any music. Although we had plans to publish an album at some point in that time, obviously the situation was difficult and nobody felt like publishing music. So all these plans were delayed until after the war. So we published our first album only in May of 2000.

And so why did you end your music career and head off to get an economics degree at the London School of Economics? One thing led to another, actually. I joined politics properly, I mean, as a joining the political party, the Democratic Party of Kosovo, as you said, the vice president to this day, in 2004. I was still doing music, I published an album even after that, but I also had my plans on my you know academic aspect so I published our last we published our last album I think in summer of 2004 had you know concerts

and tours then ended up going to London in 2005, focusing, obviously, on my studies, came back in the end of 2006. My party was in the opposition back then, so I jumped in politics full-time, trying to win an election, which we did the next year. One thing led to another. That was the formative years of Kosovo. I became a member of parliament for the first time, I was 27. And then that was basically the government that everybody knew was going to declare independence of Kosovo. So just a month, I mean, we created the government, it was voted in January 2007 and we declared independence in February 2008. I mean, I was one of the signatories

of the Declaration of Independence and that was the biggest honor of my life. And, you know, I never said I'm quitting. So I had still material, I had still demo songs and songs that were recorded in the studio. Kept postponing, so I didn't have the actual time to focus on it like we used to for months at a time so you know you record the song today and then listen to it after seven six seven months

it doesn't feel right you want to redo it and that's all the lyrics are out of the time I mean most of our songs are some sort of an oral history. They speak about the actual time when they were published. So, I mean, I'm pretty sure young people, that teenagers of today, when they listen to a song that we did 20 years ago, they don't have any way to connect with them because they speak about the problems of that actual time. And, you know, basically,

it just sort of things fell into place. And we didn't record any new material ever since. That's interesting, though, because that means you guys have progressed exceptionally well and that you've gotten past those times. Because I think an American rap fan will largely tell you that the lyrics of Public Enemy and NWA and KRS-One still resonate, and that we still have the same problems largely that they were rapping about. I'm also trying to wrap my head around if like Chuck D had become vice president for KRS-One, which is effectively what you did. And also trying to wrap my head around the fact that we think of 1776 and the Declaration of Independence and the writing of the Constitution,

and you've lived that, you know, and you're only 40 years old. But it's just so interesting to me, because, you know, everyone sees America as this great light on the hill, or did to some degree, but we still have the problems that, you know, rap music was really a reaction to, and you guys have overcome them. Well uh to some extent but actually no i mean when i said they wouldn't connect there are some songs that have specific uh issues like i mean something that's going to look uh that's going to look out of uh out of this world like we had a song about power cuts in in the first winter of 2000, obviously, Kosovo was, as I said, completely devastated from the war, and we had just

become free. And then that was a difficult winter because the power, the electricity production company just couldn't produce enough electricity for the whole country. So, you know, there were power cuts. There were stuff like this, and we had songs even for that. So luckily people today, the young people today don't understand this. But on the other hand, some of the, I hope, most important songs that we did, they actually still resonate to this day.

We had a song in 1997 which is titled One Day It's Gonna Be Better. It still works today because we still want things to become better than they actually are. And actually I was pleasantly surprised by a very good musician who was doing some New Year's celebratory program in one of the important TV channels here and asked me if they can do a version of that song. So, you know, that actually goes on to say that 23 years later, even some of these songs work. And I can actually say that most of the songs that would still work today that we did are songs that basically criticize politics and politicians.

And I had a lot of those. Yes, I ended up becoming one of them. But I really hope I haven't become one of those guys that I criticized because I ended up in politics because I couldn't change things only with music. People would love that music. Thankfully, they would be inspired by it. They would say, I agree, but that doesn't actually change

the decision-making process. So combined with the fact that I was always interested in politics, as I said, the kids of the 90s here, even if you didn't want to deal with politics, politics dealt with us. We were well entrenched in what was going on, not only here and in the region, but globally. So in that sense, it was basically some sort of a, to me, at least

some sort of a natural transition from trying to do politics through music, and to actually doing politics. I think that there's a perception certainly here that a lot of people start with good with ideals and positive ideas and go into politics and eventually get, you know, chewed up by the system and become sort of the politicians that you're talking about. So how do you maintain true to your initial ideals and your roots, but still legislate and do you know, what's best or necessary for the country? I think there's a lot of truth to that. And I'm pretty sure there will be people that have known me for many years that would say,

yes, he's changed. Yes, he's become one of those politicians. But I honestly believe that I've tried. I've tried and I still try to maintain and be genuine and keep the actual ideas when I went into politics. And yes, it's not as easy once you're in. It's not as easy because not a lot depends on one person or a few persons. It's a complicated system, the government, and there's many things that need to fall into place for good things to happen. But how I try to maintain the memory that I was is I still do the same things that I used to do.

I still walk around in my city. I don't walk with bodyguards or with official cars. I go to the same bars that I used to go to, the same people that I used to own still own in different places. I hang out with the same people that I used to hang out. I have the same group of friends that I grew up, grown up with, that I still maintain this exact same relationship that I had. And I try to talk to people.

I mean, younger, older, I try to be out in the field, not only focused in the capital city where I was born and lived in Pristina, but, you know, go out in other parts of the country and listen to what people have to say. You know, criticize us or criticize others or just get a grasp of what their struggle is and what their concerns are. And then obviously try to get them in our daily job. It's a difference when you're in the opposition.

Obviously, you have limitations of what you can do from that side of the power. And it's obviously different when side of the power. And it's obviously different when you're in power. And I've been in both. So depending on what I do, I mean, I was a minister of culture, youth, and sports. So that was my responsibility for a term. And I tried to do what's best for the people in the arts industry. I didn't do what I thought was best.

I listened to them. Same with sports. I mean, when I became a minister of sports, although Kosovo was an independent country, our sports federation and our Olympic comedy were not recognized by the international federations and the international Olympic comedy. So it became my, I'm happy to say, on the last day of my career, I actually achieved that success. So Kosovo Olympic Committee became a member of the IOC, and that opened a world of opportunities for our young athletes. So in the first ever Olympic Games that then we took part of,

we won a gold medal in judo and steadily we've become one of the powerhouses in that sport at least. So there are smaller things that don't necessarily look as the game changer in everything but you need to do whatever

your responsibility is. So if it was sports, it was culture, at some point it was agriculture. You know, I try to do the best that I can and that I know in working with other people that know better to improve the situation there. So your official currency is the euro, right? You have your own central bank

and you guys are working to become a part of the European Union. Where do you think central bank digital currencies, I guess first, what's the future of the euro becoming digital, A? And B, what is your central bank's current policies towards monetary policy, theoretically maybe getting into Bitcoin or in context of everything that's happening in the world right now? Well, I think, well, obviously 2020 has been unexpectedly complicated for everyone with the pandemic and everything. And that has definitely affected also the way of thinking and doing

in the financial world and also in the world of decision makers. When it comes to Euro, obviously we've adopted the currency of the European, most of the European Union countries, because it was easier for Kosovo not to emit its own currency, and hence we don't really have our own independent monetary policy. But the way I see it, obviously, I'm a strong believer that everyone will end up having at least a few digital currencies. I see and follow all the talk about digital dollar, digital yuan, and digital euro at some point. But the fact of the matter is that the European Union is a slow-moving organization. The European Union is very bureaucratic and quite conservative in that sense. the European Central Bank, from my perspective, will take time to be able to understand the

fact that they need to move in the digital sphere and also be more tolerant and accepting of the cryptocurrencies. If I was a betting man, I would bet that they would first be able to go on the direction of issuing a digital euro, then of accepting Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. But that's going to be absolutely in the works in the years to come. On the Kosovo perspective, we cannot affect that. We're not a member state of the European Union. We're an aspiring member, same as most of the countries in our vicinity in the Western Balkans. But due to this fact, all of our legislation needs to

be in line and aligned with the European Union legislation, also in the financial sector. The Central Bank of Kosovo is one of the really credible institutions here, but so far the menu of their operations is quite limited in that sense that they unfortunately cannot go way beyond the actual regulations and decisions that the European Central Bank issues because of this fact that you would be seen as a country not respecting this and that, and then it would be extra hurdles in our way to become an integrated.

But I don't necessarily see that as the biggest obstacle. Yeah, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So that's a problem. Otherwise, there are people in our central bank in very senior positions that are, let's say, blockchain slash Bitcoin friendly. They understand how important this is. And I'm pretty sure that given the opportunity, they would be quite open to, you know, trying to see how we can integrate the cryptocurrency in the overall financial system.

What is the official, I guess, government stance towards cryptocurrency among the citizens, not obviously investing in Bitcoin as a country, but I know that at least for a period, mining was extremely popular in Kosovo, right? Yes, it was. I mean, in 2016, late 2016, there were first mining operations. There were a lot of people mining Ethereum, some Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies In 2016, there were first mining operations. There were a lot of people mining Ethereum, some Bitcoin,

and some other cryptocurrencies actually in that time. In 2017, it became big. And then in 2017, like everywhere else, the retail became huge. So everybody wanted to get a piece of this people that you know I used to try to you know convert in 2016 sort of came back and asking you know I remember this thing that you were like well how can I buy Bitcoin what can I do and what should I do you know they were looking at the prices as everyone else they would see XRP being cheap and say, oh, let's buy this because it's cheaper. People just spend money without actually knowing much, but it just became this idea that you can just make money real fast.

Obviously, that changed after the decline in 2018. It's sort of coming back again now, but the government doesn't really have a position. it's sort of coming back again now. But the government doesn't really have a position. I mean, I have been quite, I've worked with all of our finance ministers all over the years. One of them, which I trust most

in the financial and economic sense, and in his mind, he's a good friend of mine, he's from my party. And I wouldn't say that we fully agree on uh on the cryptocurrency aspect he's more conservative obviously he's uh from a different uh different breed and different school but he's tolerant and he was also at some point the uh the governor of the central bank uh nevertheless Nevertheless, the fact that Kosovo is a young country

and we have younger members of parliament and ministers in the government, I think there will be a point where more people will understand and be ready to accept and even effectuate legislation. Things are happening in the region, for example, Albania, which is the country closest to Kosovo and our neighboring country. They've just passed one of the most advanced pieces of legislation in all of the world, in Europe. I mean, you may remember the last couple of years,

we were all reading and talking about Malta, at some point about Bermuda, and then other countries. I can guarantee you the law that Albania has passed is quite more advanced than all of them. It sort of opens up legally the whole country to issuing cryptocurrencies, trading cryptocurrencies, streamlining the opening of exchanges in the country and making this completely legal and within, organized within the actual financial system of the country. And I think that's going to be one of the good examples which we will try to replicate in the near future in Kosovo.

It would also open up opportunities for, you know, new actors to jump in and use the legislation and the opportunities that that provides. There are very few countries that are that openly friendly, right? I mean, you touched on Malta and nobody talked about Malta before, but huge crypto companies have moved their operations to Malta Binance, for example, right? So, I mean, if you can affect that change and can compel the government to be one of the first, it can bring it, especially with the 10% tax rate, it can bring a tremendous amount of exposure and business into Kosovo or any country. Yeah, absolutely. I think that was the thinking

behind the Albanian government's initiative to do this. And now they're a couple of steps ahead of everyone here in the region. But I'm pretty sure it's still early phases. So it's still open. It's an open field for most of the countries to follow suit. So, I mean, Kosovo is 12 years old. You've been a part of it from the very beginning. How do you avoid the pitfalls and traps that we've seen with every developed country after 50 years or 100 years or 200 years? You know, the same sort of patterns that seem to have played out over and over

again in history in most places it's hard to predict the future and obviously um nothing is you know uh all roses anywhere uh there were things that affect us um like they affect the region or europe or the world for that matter uh and things are not very easy for everyone. But I think the driving engine of Kosovo is and will be its people, and especially its young people, because it's most of the people of Kosovo in any case. So, you know, my hope and my bet is on the people of Kosovo, on the young people here. I mean, if we were to be able to provide them with more opportunities, they have a lot of talent.

There's been companies that have started in incubators in Kosovo who have now become multimillion-dollar companies that have operations in various countries in the world. I mean, we've had in other areas a lot of success. We're a small country of less than 2 million, but, you know, we've given the world some of its biggest pop stars right now, such as Dua Lipa and Rita Aura and, you know, even Bibi Reza from Kosovo, from, I mean, Alban from around here, and others. And, you know, I think there's this entrepreneurial spirit that has helped Kosovo people throughout the difficult period,

not only since 1989, but even before that, but still remains, which is much more dynamic than the government that serves them, which will definitely also up the level for us that serve in the government or for those that will come after us. So interesting. It sounds like building a new company. Make sure that your young talent has access to opportunity and resources. Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

That's so very interesting. So what do you think that the future looks like in Kosovo in five, ten years? I mean, obviously we're talking about hundreds of years and avoiding these pitfalls, but what are the biggest plans that you guys have that you'd like to see come to fruition soon? Well, in this overall political sense, which connects with everything else, is the fact that Kosovo wants to become a member of the European Union like all the other countries is quite important because of sort of

directs and keeps a framework of those standards is not easy. So you know we have a lot of homework but that homework is important so I don't really expect that the countries in the region will become EU members in the next five years but But potentially, I think in the next 10 years, in the next decade, we would be able to join the EU and become members of this political and economic family. That would be quite important for the whole region because EU was created as an institution, as an organization, as an alliance which bases peace and reconciliation as its most important founding principle. And that would be helpful for all of our countries to leave the past behind, sort of not forget

about it, obviously, but just try to look towards the future, which would be very important for the young people, for the younger generations, for our children and those that come after. So in that overall sense, that would be important. On the other hand, I expect that, you know, Kosovo will grow, opportunities will grow, economy will grow. I mean, we were able enough to have positive economic growth throughout the economic downfall in 2009 and 2010.

I mean, everybody was in recession or stagnation, but notwithstanding the fact that we're a small economy, we still maintain an average growth of 4%. It's a small economy, we still maintained an average growth of 4%. It's a small economy, but still it has helped in keeping the arrow up. There's many things that need to happen. One of the important things that we have to focus on is trying to achieve a peace treaty with Serbia. We still have our problems. Serbia does not recognize Kosovo.

They still try to undermine everything about Kosovo in the sense of becoming recognized fully internationally. We're not members of the United Nations. We cannot do that because of Russia's veto power in the Security Council, and Russia does that because of supporting Serbia's official stance. So these things, they look very political, but the fact of the matter is that they actually hurt the daily lives of the people. I mean, just to simplify it, not being a member of the UN

basically prohibits us from being members of the United Nations organization which deals with communication and stuff like that. So because of that, we don't even have a top level domain, Kosovo. Or we had years where we didn't have our country code. And even to get that country code, there needed to be a separate arrangement and what have you, and discussions and negotiations and stuff,

which comes very natural and normal and very easy for other countries. So although these are purely political, and I can't blame people for not being interested in this, it's the job of us politicians and whoever is in the government to try to achieve these solutions because they actually affect the lives of everyone. Makes sense. So I heard you guys have a statue of Bill Clinton. Is that true? Yeah, it is. When you said, you know,

we were the you know, the like in Kosovo, you will not find a more pro-American country anywhere. Actually, in the Gallup poll, I think it's a competition between Kosovo and Israel. Usually we win the first place. Sometimes we got the second if they win the first.

But it is the most pro-American country for, you know, right reasons. The intervention of the NATO troops in 1999, in March of 1999, which effectively ended the war in Kosovo and the expulsion and the attempted genocide that former Slobodan, leader of Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic, was basically implemented here, was initiated by the United States. Bill Clinton was the president back then, and he was basically the driving force behind that. Not only him, it was Madeleine Albright, who was the Secretary of State, Wesley Clark, who was the NATO commander, and other European leaders, such as Tony Blair of the United Kingdom. But for Kosovo, the love for America is basically a testimony

to how we feel indebted to you for helping us become free. Because there were other instances before us where, you know, war dragged for years and, you know, war, you know, dragged for years and, you know, hundreds of thousands of people died, were displaced forever, never came back. And that might have been the fate of Kosovo, probably, if not for the intervention of NATO, which was basically initiated by the U.S. And when it comes to Kosovo, there's always been a bipartisan approach.

There was never a difference between Republicans or Democrats. It was George W. Bush who was in the office when he recognized Kosovo's independence. And throughout the years, we've had bipartisan support in the Congress or whoever was in the White House. And it's true that there's a Bill Clinton statue. It's actually very close to a famous boutique, which is called Hillary. And the Bill Clinton Boulevard intersects with the Bob Dole Street. And further up is the George W. Bush Avenue. There's Madeline Albright Square.

There's a Wesley Clark Street. And there's probably also a lot of other streets that are named by Americans that have helped the people of Kosovo to become free and liberated. Wow, that's amazing. Maybe one day we can get a Memli statue in the United States. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Maybe some small street somewhere in a lost village. So where could everybody...

We can get your... We will see. We can get a street named after you at some point, probably. I'm ready. Let's do it. I've always dreamed of having a street named after me. I have streets in my nickname, so it's a natural segue, right? Sure.

Well, so where can everybody keep up with you and follow you after this interview? I didn't get that. Where can everybody follow you after this interview? Oh, well, you know, I'm on Twitter for some years. That's my Twitter handle and my first and last name, Emre Krasniqi. I'm not most active there, but, you know, I post stuff about my Bitcoin trades or crypto trades, politics. But I'm not the most active. I have an Instagram account, a Facebook account, none of them very active.

But Twitter is, I think, the social network of choice. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. It's funny. I mean, you're literally like sitting in the House of Parliament doing this interview between meetings. So I know how busy you are and really appreciate you taking the time. And it's just such an interesting perspective that is probably so foreign to most people in countries like the United Kingdom, United States, where we just take for granted that these things happened hundreds of years ago. And for you, it's, you know, within the last few decades. Yeah, well, you were lucky. I wish we didn't have to do this. But on the other hand, we have the historical duty and honor to be part of this development. But thank you, Scott, for having me. As you know, I've been following him for a long time. I respect you a lot

and what you do I'm you know a regular leader of your of your newsletter and of your your listing of your of your podcast so I'm I'm really honored to be uh one of your guests on your show well the honor is all mine thanks once again again. And, uh, speak to you soon. Thank you. Bye.