The Wolf Of All Streets - Can Bitcoin Reach $1,000,000 In 2 Years? Gary Cardone Says Yes. Here’s Why.
Episode Date: July 13, 2025Bitcoin just broke new all-time highs – but Gary Cardone says we haven’t seen anything yet. In this episode of The Wolf Of All Streets, we talk about why $200K is possible by year-end, how billion...aires are entering with $100M buys, and why waiting to buy could cost you a shot at $1 million Bitcoin. If you’re serious about building wealth in this cycle, you need to hear this conversation. Gary Cardone: https://x.com/garycardone ►► JOIN THE WOLF PACK - FREE Telegram group where I share daily updates on everything I'm watching and chat directly with all of you. 👉https://t.me/WolfOfAllStreet_bot ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/ ►► Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities! 👉https://archpublic.com/ ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code '10OFF' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://x.com/scottmelker Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io/ Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c #Bitcoin #Crypto #Investments Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:30 All-Time High Discussion 6:00 Institutional Buying Surge 9:00 Why Bitcoin Is Different Now 12:00 Real Estate vs Bitcoin 15:00 Treasury Companies Bubble 18:00 Who Gets Wrecked? 21:00 MicroStrategy vs Other Treasuries 24:00 Best Time To Buy Bitcoin 27:00 Biggest Mistakes In Crypto 30:00 Self-Custody Risks 33:00 Wall Street Is Here 36:00 Political Shift Toward Bitcoin 39:00 Could Powell Resign? 43:00 Billionaire Demand For Bitcoin 46:00 Retracements Are Normal 49:00 The Simplicity Of Buying Bitcoin 52:00 Career Opportunities In Bitcoin The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.
Transcript
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Tampa, if you got a lot of money and you like to lose, contact me or Melker.
We're going to put a game together.
We all find creative ways to lose our Bitcoin over time.
Credit event nukes default on debt.
I mean, this is an insane chart.
My credibility is worth more than $30 million.
Dude, that's significant, right?
You know, it's the old trading or investing advice.
KISS, keep it simple, stupid.
After ranging above $100,000 for seemingly months,
Bitcoin finally made a new all-time high on Thursday. Luckily, I was actually scheduled
for a conversation with my good friend, Gary Cardone, which we made live at the time because
it was such an impactful moment as Bitcoin was breaking out. This conversation resonated with
so many people that we decided to put it out as a podcast
as well.
We talked about everything from why price is going up, where it's likely to head.
Spoiler, Gary thinks it could be a million dollars in two years.
But also this was just a frank conversation between two friends discussing the importance
of Bitcoin and how absolutely blown away by how easy it is to simply make money by buying and holding Bitcoin.
This is a conversation you do not want to miss. Seventh all time high in 2025 today for Bitcoin.
Crazy.
Has that happened before?
In your prior year?
Oh, you know, it's kind of what it depends, I think, on how you count them because there's
definitely been periods where every day it makes a new all-time high going parabolic up,
you know, so weekly all-time high, daily all-time high,
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. But we clearly were stuck in this range, I think,
since May 20th, 21st, something like that. So a month and a half seeking this out and pretty
clear evidence here that this thing's pumping. Do you think that people are surprised by these
numbers right now? I don't think so.
No?
I mean, well, I think there's a lot of people who expected to get a bigger retracement than
just going under 100 for five minutes.
Right.
But I think anybody who's paying attention has been chompy at the bit to buy as much
as they can as fast as they can before it inevitably goes up.
Right?
So I think it just is a differentiation between your average person, maybe who has an opinion
and someone who's in the know and is looking at this, knowing that it's a pressure cake
that's been ready to explode.
I was on a call earlier with some, shall we say people who've been around like 13 years,
right?
A long time.
And they made the comment, they said, look, somebody bought $10,000 worth of Bitcoin,
they went all in and they held and, you know, they just don't see that happening again in
this cycle.
Basically, I was suggesting that over the next two to four years, we're going to see
an exponential move from Bitcoin.
I think it's going to break all these models.
And in this first four, in this first, in this fourth cycle, you get the biggest run, which is against
what everyone else is saying, right? Everyone's saying, hey look, it's gonna
flatten out. We're gonna lose the upside, the upside here because the volatility
is tamped down. But my point is, hey, when you came in here 13 years ago at 10
grand, that isn't happening anymore.
I mean, it is happening, but I see people coming in with $111 million for their first purchase.
Okay.
That has never happened before.
And I think that fucking very different putting 10 grand.
I don't think if you don't understand the difference between a hundred million and 10
grand, because I would have never done this.
You would never have had me in
this space four years ago deploying 86% of all my worth. No chance, man. That's why-
A lot of people keep saying, Matt Hogan said it to me and he's continued to say it since that this
is the best risk adjusted time to buy Bitcoin because at 100, maybe he was saying at 100,
but at 100,000 with ETFs and legislation and regulation and a
pro Bitcoin president, what's your downside long-term?
But at 10,000, when it's a nascent asset and it's small and there's no institutional interest
and you have the government fighting you, you got to think, hey, maybe this thing just
goes down to 1,000 and stays there.
So right now, it's pretty programmed to continue up over a
large enough timeframe. I can't tell you what's going to happen tomorrow, today, whatever.
But I think that there's so much money coming in and there's so much money still yet to come
in that can't even get access to it. Vanguard doesn't even allow Bitcoin spot ETFs. It's crazy.
Did you see the... Everything's making it easier. The reporting for crypto
on taxes, you know, they're trying to remove all the complexity there that came out today.
That's good news, man. People really stressed over the audit ability of all this, all the
crypto. You know, when your accounting team can't do it properly, it's going to make you
rethink whether or not you really want to do the investment.
So now everything's lining up for Joe Legacy to be able to do everything he's ever been
able to do.
And he has an instrument he can invest in that's four years long, which is a very different
duration stack than any other asset you can acquire.
Like most of these people, like
Grant's in for 10 to 20 years, man, on a real estate play. If you invest with
Grant, you're gonna sign a 10-year deployment and he has the right to
extend for 10 years, right? Private equity, the stuff I've always done in my building
businesses takes you somewhere between six and 11 years.
Building a company, six to 11 years.
You know, owning a home, how long do you need to own the home?
Probably the moment you bought it is probably, you know, start looking to sell it.
This is a four-year duration that gives you a very limited downside with I mean, I could see this thing at 200 grand by the end
of the year with what the movement we're seeing right here, I could easily see that.
A 2X for Bitcoin is not really that unusual. Right? I mean, of course, now you're talking
about 2 trillion market cap, plus 2 trillion market cap would be four and a half pushing five. Yeah, but but but but the video is at four trillion today.
Oh, I'm not saying that it's crazy. I'm just saying it's harder. I think a 2x from 100 to 200
is harder than a 2x from one to two, right? Because it's just a different market. It's much larger and
there's just, it's harder to move price, but there's so much money pouring in.
We were talking about this this morning.
Should almost be surprised that it maintained under 112 or under 110 for so long, considering
all of the transparent demand that's coming in between Bitcoin treasury companies and
MicroStrategy, ETFs, 50 billion in net inflows now in a year and a half. I mean, those numbers are insane.
$76 trillion sitting in money market funds today.
Yeah.
$76 trillion, dude.
Making what?
What does the money market fund pay you today?
2%, 5%, 2%, 3%, I don't know.
Nothing.
I've got a sister who's got two brothers deep into Bitcoin.
She's got $300 in cash sitting on the sidelines just
for an emergency. And it's like that is insanity, right? To have that much money sitting in cash
doing nothing. It's not like she's a vulture hunter waiting for a deal to buy on the street.
Dude, I think we're so early here. I just don't. I think people are starting to freak out over these numbers.
It's a little bit like the Bitcoin community doesn't want us coming in here a little bit.
I get that sense a little bit.
You kind of want the number to go up, but you really don't want us here.
And this is the comment I made.
I'm like, dude, the day Bitcoin becomes easy for wealthy people to come in here, they don't
have to read the white paper 30 times.
Is the day Bitcoin really does well?
And you shouldn't-
I said that to you this morning.
I said that to you this morning, Grant and his friends and the kind of guys who are just
going to come in and plow 100 million into Bitcoin, right?
I mean, literally, if he's bought, transparently, I think, like you said, you read the same
articles as me, but a thousand Bitcoin already.
That's not based on reading the white paper and deeply believing that Bitcoin is peer
to peer cash that's going to replace the dollar.
It's because people with that much money are looking for a place that they can plow money
into safely and as you said, sleep well at night.
Now you can get the size easily without particularly budging the price. They're adding all of the
sort of surrounding ancillary products that you would want around an asset that you own,
like options and ETFs and all of these things, which makes it that much more legitimate.
You know that there's no reason it's going to draw down massively right now. Honestly,
even for a guy like your brother, he's got to be thinking about real estate and saying, he's got a very favorable structure
for the way that he does real estate. But like you said, someone who's just buying a house or
buying something as an investment, wouldn't you rather buy Bitcoin? Well, the house investment,
like, and I know you just bought one, so it's a little sensitive, but, and
you know this is true. I mean, the house investment is the worst investment in the world. At least
grants multi-dwelling stuff. It generates fiat, and that fiat's going to then buy Bitcoin.
You know, his allocation, this is the point I was trying to make to these guys in another
room earlier, and it's the older ones.
I don't think they understand how money that was earned like we earned it is deployed.
I think he got 100 Bitcoin for something he did 10 years ago, five years ago.
And I was like, you're not a Bitcoiner dude until you buy Bitcoin.
You got to buy it, right?
Then you start to, sure enough, he started buying it.
And I brought him the sailor. We talked about the whole strategy. And my pitch to him was,
bro, the only way you're ever going to double, go from 4,000 apartment doors to eight,
is to do something unique. And that got him. He's like, how do I grow? Because at this age, you start
looking at it to your point, hey, how do you grow 10, 20, 30% when you have a big portfolio?
He made the comment last night, and I think he's bought over 1000 Bitcoin. I don't know.
I'm pretty sure he's not lying. But today he's saying, I can see in front of 3,000 people, I can see where I could buy
Bitcoin, replace my real estate position and sleep it extremely well at night.
Now that's taken him less than two years, man.
Okay, this is the point I'm trying to make.
Putting $10,000 to work and turning it into 100 million, that's really cool.
You won the lottery ticket. These people are like, how can I deploy 500 million?
How can I deploy-
But they're also not buying it
to take 500 million to 5 billion.
This isn't the same kind of like,
oh, I need the 100X retail.
I saw it on a billboard or on Twitter
and my cab driver-
I wanna buy a Mercedes.
This, if you're plowing in $100 million, you're like,
dude, I would be thrilled if this thing is $120 million.
Right?
If you made 20% on an investment that was safe and liquid and easy.
So it's not like people are coming in looking for upside altcoin games
or to trade this degenerate GameStop meme guys.
They're just looking to put their money somewhere safe
that's gonna outperform the benchmarks
like yields and money market funds, as you said.
The pitch to these guys actually,
I would say when I talked to financial advisors and such,
they don't wanna tell somebody,
hey, put your money in crypto, it's gonna go up 3X
because that sounds like unicorn fairy dust.
They wanna literally, they would rather, even if they believe that, pitch the person say,
you'll make 10% a year on this thing. It'll easily do 10% a year over time. It's crushing
your normal portfolio, which is doing six. Totally agree.
And so you sound like a lunatic when you actually throw out the big numbers that you'd almost
rather pitch them on something lower. In fact, there's people I know who are trying to raise funds
where basically they get all the upside and pitch this very low side safe sort of guaranteed
yield. We'll cap your downside. So basically you can't go to zero or whatever. Your downsides
cap to 10 or 20%. We pay you 10% on the upside each year, but we get the rest of the
upside.
13, 14, 15. If you did 15% a year for 15 years, you'd be tickled freaking pink, man. And you'd
be rich. Okay. This is like much less 23.
When you double your money every three and a half years, like 18%, man. 18% is three years.
Okay, so you buy $100,000 Bitcoin, it goes to a million,
it will go to a million, okay?
And then you're gonna get a 12, 15, 20% return every year.
That is monster money.
Like I don't know why a 20 year old kid
thinks he needs to chase XRP.
I don't get it.
Which then brings me to these bloody strategy companies. I have
found myself, and I love having guys like you that have been around a long time in this space,
because I can call you up and go, hey man, BMNR just made 3000%. It went from $2.50 to $120
in three days. I miss that move.
Wow, that's a big move, man.
Imagine smashing a million dollars into a trade like that
and walking away with 100 in three days.
Well, that shit's down 60% right now.
Okay, it's down.
That's a hot potato, right?
And I think that's the future of these treasury companies.
You're talking about-
Well, that's what I'm trying to get to, Scott,
is how many people are going to get their
bags smashed, chased, and shit?
First of all, the people who invest in the treasury companies will make their money in
exit much like any early investment that you've seen before.
It reminds me of ICOs from 2017.
But the retail that buys the FOMO on the actual stock of those companies is
inevitably going to get wrecked. Even if simply the premium to NAV is arbed away. If you're trading
at a 10X to the net asset value and you buy that stock, even if it goes down to four or five X,
you're destroyed and it's still a good investment because it's trading at a higher NAV
than the underlying asset. And then it's going to be a game of hot potato with people going between
the treasury companies to find the next hottest one or the one that's most likely to move up to
the highest premium. This is a game I think that we've seen before. But think about BM&R,
which you just mentioned. We're up 3800% basically from what I looked in about five days.
That was with Tom Lee going on TV saying Ethereum is the next Bitcoin, the new Bitcoin.
I can't remember exactly what she said.
And basically announcing that he was participating in this.
Do you think that Ethereum ever goes up 3800% ever?
It's really hard to believe that that could happen.
I mean, you're talking massive, massive increase, right?
So you're talking about Ethereum at like Bitcoin prices, right?
So think about the fact that an announcement that a company is going to buy Ethereum could
pump it that massively when the underlying asset has been languishing and people don't even want that.
So that shows you that we're in some sort of weird FOMO disconnection where people are just
trying to catch quick gains in these just like they did in altcoins or meme stocks
in the past. But you have to understand that the insiders, their money is made before you're even trading
this as retail.
They send their Bitcoin in or their Ethereum into the treasury company that they've already
had.
They reverse merge into a public company.
Because it's an existing public company, those shares are readily available.
For most people, there's not even a real vesting schedule.
And because of the hype, you start trading at eight, nine, 10, even three X
to nav, you've three Xed your Bitcoin or Ethereum stack overnight. Your liquid to get out, get your
coins back, maybe more coins or your coins back plus cash plus riding the house's money. So these
are engineered obviously for the people creating them. I'm not making a value judgment on that.
It's just a statement of how they operate.
When you have wealthy people making money first,
you just have Wall Street all over again,
or ICOs all over again.
And you know, that's inevitably kind of
what's probably going to, this will probably look like.
I mean, this is an insane chart, dude.
Like who's getting cut up here, right?
Whoever bought that stock on the hyper rally.
Can you say there's no rational reason for that to have done that?
You're going to have a lot of people looking at this trying to chase it.
All they're going to see is the green.
It's going to be funny.
You know, it does remind me who gets hurt by all these strategic reserves.
Does the I heard you talk about this the other day.
Treasury companies themselves. I mean, I think it's the retail who buys the stock. So listen,
when I was first looking at these, which was before we were even in Vegas, I think we were
talking about this on our flight to Vegas and I was kind of breaking down to you how I had
reservations about the structure of these. That was before we walked into Vegas and got pitched like 40 of them.
Yeah. Right. And so the reason I have reservations at first was because I thought it would be bad
for the underlying asset. This could be the next Bitcoin bubble that wrecks Bitcoin. And because
my thinking there was you've got these treasury companies now, there's a few of them. I think
they're high quality. They'll do well. Those people have made their money. They're going to ride it.
But when Bitcoin's at 150 or 170, and people see how much
money these treasury companies have made, every hudged fund on the planet is going to try to start
a Bitcoin treasury company. They're going to buy what's inevitably the top on Bitcoin because
that's when they're going to FOMO in. There's going to be really no way to raise the debt or the money
to buy more Bitcoin. And what they're going to end up doing is actually having to sell off all that Bitcoin that was sent in to cover. And so my thought was that Rex Bitcoin.
And it wasn't that it causes an 85% drawdown or it's the next bear market. It's just that a 20%
correction becomes a 40% correction because at the 20% drop, so many people are so poorly positioned
with these treasury companies and such that they're forced to liquidate their Bitcoin and it gives us sort of a cascade.
Maybe it bounces right back.
I don't think it's doom or anything.
But the more I think about it and talk to people, it's just more the people who buy
the shares of the companies on the open market after they've pumped that are going to get
destroyed.
Because these kids can't keep trading at 9X NAV or 5X NAV or 3X NAV. Even MicroStrategy, what's it now?
1.7X NAV or something. Wouldn't you rather own MicroStrategy, which is trading like a bank stock?
Right. JP Morgan, I don't know what it is now, but I'm going to guess JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs
trade at one or two X floating the value of their assets. Right? And so, how do you even justify
that with a bank? If you've got a certain amount of assets, why is your stock worth twice as much as your
assets?
Because of their banking services, the things they provide, the ancillary services, all
of the structure that allows people to utilize services, make money, custody things, you
run it.
The full gamut of financial services.
None of these treasury companies have that.
A lot of them are promising it.
If they had it, the premium to NAV could make sense.
And I think everybody expects that's what micro strategy is going to become.
Right?
I mean, nobody, Michael Saylor is not hiding the fact that he intends to offer a full suite
of financial services and effectively become a Bitcoin bank.
And that's why he needs to own so much and keep accumulating so much Bitcoin.
So I see that as totally justified that they're trading at that premium because you have this
expectation and they're the first mover and they're the biggest.
But like Treasury Company number 47, do they deserve to be more valuable than the Bitcoin
they hold?
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't get that.
I don't think so.
Not out of the, just for an announcement, right?
I mean, I like it.
We're hitting 113 right now.
I like it because it's chasing away the squirrely money.
Bitcoin, if everybody was plowing into this, Bitcoin would be much more expensive.
So I love this trickery.
I'm just trying to keep my head on swivel and make sure that the swivel doesn't control
me.
I like observing the market, but I don't want to get FOMO'd into it.
This is why I'm wanting to have the conversation because I can look at the trade on BMNR and
go, God damn, dude, I could have made a shitload of money just taking a small position.
But then now I'm just chasing yield, I'm chasing profit,
I'm chasing the yen. I've literally changed my entire thesis of why I'm in Bitcoin, which is,
hey, this is money that does not require me to take massive amounts of effort and risk.
I don't have to keep moving and making activity. I need to be disciplined and keep adding. If you're buying Bitcoin for the right reason, you don't feel compelled to buy a treasury
company. Right? If you, and I'm not even saying this in a negative way, but if you're here
to make a ton of money and you're speculating and you think that taking on a leverage Bitcoin
position effectively because you believe it's going go up, could be done through these treasury companies.
I totally get buying these,
but I just have to view these mentally
as more of a trade than the investment.
And the overwhelming theme of every conversation
you and I have had in the past month, month and a half
is this is so easy.
Why is this so easy?
Can it be this easy?
And it really is just that easy that
you just take money and you buy Bitcoin and you wait.
Like it's going to be the joke of the century.
You don't need to do this. Yeah. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy these things. I'm not saying
MicroStrategy is not amazing. I just told you.
Oh, listen, I own MicroStrategy. To be clear, I own MSTR. Okay. But I own it 250. And I
own some leaps of MicroStrategy. I own some minersaps of micro strategy.
I own some miners.
You talked about the people that are going to puke out.
I'm not sure it's the strategy players.
I think it's the miners.
I think the miners are going to struggle, man.
This is good news for them, right?
Because we've had historically high hash rates when Bitcoin was kind of sideways.
It was down in the 90s.
So at least they're going to be profitable as Bitcoin goes up.
So they'll have less reason, I think, in the short term to sell, but there's always a reason
for miners to sell if price languishes or drops. Like anyone who doesn't think price is going to
drop again at some point, I don't know. Yeah, 113,000 though, not bad.
What do you say to somebody that has no deployment into Bitcoin at all,
and they're looking at $113,000 as all time high. How could
you walk them through entering today versus waiting for a retracement? No more dangerous
notion with any asset that you believe in, but especially Bitcoin that I'm just going to wait
to buy lower because inevitably you're the one who chases and buys the top. And that's just how
markets work. That's how this works. I lost Gary there for a minute,
but I can continue talking about it, assuming he'll be back. I think that, as I said, as a
risk adjusted basis, this is the best price we've ever had for Bitcoin, or maybe in the 90s,
hundreds, 88, whatever. But I would say, listen, just start dollar cost averaging. You don't need
to think about the price, except that this is something that you want to own, that you want to buy
basically indefinitely, blindly, and be price agnostic. There's no reason to think so hard
about your entry point. Okay. You said you think it's going to a million. I think you
got in a heated debate earlier today saying you think it could go to a million in two
years, right? Time frame aside, if you think think you go to a million in two years, right?
Time frame aside, if you think it's going to a million, are you really like waiting
to buy it 109 instead of 113?
Right.
That's right.
So to me, it's just the case is, hey, do you want exposure to this thing that you believe
is going to go up long term or do you want to take a major risk of missing the boat and
then always questioning the entry point? So your entry point should just be all the time, whatever your time frame is.
Doesn't have to be all your money, but you know even if you're buying small
just keep on buying. Scott, the biggest mistakes you've seen people make in this
space, including yourself, what are the mistakes that people, they've been in
here now three, four years or even eight, where do you see the
minds that people are just going to walk into, repeat mistakes that have been made over and over?
I see this poor kid that's in jail, BitBoy or whatever, every time I see his face dude,
I just want to, we're going to see a lot of the people that were here that could have made life-changing
money and they just blew it, man.
They just blew it.
They chased the dragon instead of like keeping their head down.
What advice do you have to people?
Yeah, I would say that, you know, the old trading or investing advice, KISS, keep it
simple, stupid, right?
I think we all try these complicated ways when we come in to beat Bitcoin, flipping
all coins, searching for the 100X gains, trying to do all these things.
If we're talking about my own personal worst mistakes, I think it's very clear that being
a Voyager, having the bulk of my huge percentage, I will say, of my Bitcoin, Ethereum too, sitting on Voyager
and losing that in one fell swoop, obviously, even though I believed in not your keys, not
your coins.
I believe that I knew them and understood what they were doing.
Clearly, I didn't have all the information or I've gotten my money the hell out of there
fast, but losing...
We all find creative ways to lose our Bitcoin over time. Especially in the earlier
days with kind of broken self-custody or just more complicated ways. And so I think literally,
and this is going to always get you and I in trouble because we say it, I'm not saying self-custody
is bad. I'm saying you have to deeply understand and believe in the asset and have very good
technical knowledge to go down the
path of self-custodian. You better damn well have a good plan if you're going to do that.
I believe that not your keys, not your coins generally was much more true in the earlier days.
Now, I think there are safe ways to do it on exchanges. I'm not saying that you should,
but most people just need to get their basic exchange security in order at first and make sure that
they don't fuck up.
Right?
Like put a encrypted email account on your Coinbase account, have a 2FA that's on a separate
device for that and for your Coinbase account.
Never have SMS because you're going to get scammed.
How many emails and texts you get from fake Kraken, Gemini and Coinbase on a
daily basis.
I get them every single day.
Your account's been compromised, whatever it is.
And I think it's pretty straightforward.
So just buy Bitcoin, make sure that you have it well secured and stop trying to beat it
unless you're like a god tier trader.
I mean, I think there's, you know, I hear about all these people that have made all this money
trading these altcoins and then flipping it into Bitcoin
because their timing is brilliant.
I've heard the whales do it.
And yet when I sit down and you know,
I know enough people now to get a fairly decent read
on what's going on, I can't meet three people
worth $50 million that has done that.
I have not had three people call me and go, hey, man, I'm flying my jet through Tampa. Let me pick
you and Scott up and let's go to Vegas hanging out for two days. And I'm going to-
Listen, I love trading. I love trading. I love charts. I love all of it. But I always kind of
joke. I'm like, the wealthiest billionaires in the world didn't
make it by deciding their entry on some nascent asset because of a line they drew on a chart.
And I think lines on charts are great for trading, they're great risk management tools
to be clear, but the real wealth is going to be made by buying, holding, and waiting.
This money, unless you have some sort of inside information, which...
This money right here, well, yeah, if you can go set one of those up, awesome.
That's the place to be, right?
Is at the 20 cent level.
I get a phone call maybe once a month or more, hey, do one of those.
I'm like, yeah, I'm not interested, man.
I just can't.
My credibility is worth more than $30 million. This is exciting, man.
I just think that people are, we are at a place where,
I mean, in all honesty,
this is gonna look like $10,000 in two years.
Yeah, I agree.
This is now really rolling all through mainstream Wall Street,
mainstream everything, global, right?
Like it is like mercury just seeking into everything.
I mean, it's pushing through 113, no problem at all.
I don't think we're going to have 4 million coins loss in the next eight cycles because
people are self-custody.
I actually think that the self custody is probably the biggest loser
in the wall street revolution and not to diminish its value.
No, but it's for retail.
Like no institution is buying Bitcoin and putting it in multi-sig.
Even if it's the best multi-sig in the world, they're going to have to trust BNY Mellon
or State Street or Coinbase or some huge registered custodian because they'll have coverage for
insurance and all the obvious things.
Which makes it safer for us than it was prior
because you had none of that support in the earlier days.
Like I've never had any American banks steal money from me.
Never.
That's just my reality.
Y'all can say that it has happened before.
It has never happened to me.
I've had them try to feed
me to death, but that's up to me to call them and go, hey, you can't charge me that fee.
I'm not paying it. This is an additive for me. I'm actually seeing my bank, who's a mid-tier
bank, not a super name. They've seen my wallets and they're like, bro, they're treating me better and I have none of my Bitcoin sitting with them.
They are treating me with great respect.
Now, that's a big deal.
When my Bitcoin isn't even sitting in their ecosphere, they know that I have a bunch of other investments in crypto sitting on their balance sheet or in an investment portfolio.
Two years ago, they would have been a little bit more demanding of me.
Now they're like, hey, what can we do for you?
It's really fascinating.
And they literally don't even touch the Bitcoin.
They know it's there.
That's a big change, dude.
When people start giving you more credibility for that, you're holding Bitcoin.
Yeah.
I mean, and how about Pulte saying that Bitcoin and crypto on a
United States registered exchange will count towards your net worth for a mortgage? I mean,
these are the kind of things that maybe in and of themselves don't move the market, but they're the
kind of signals that show you that this is a legitimate asset class. And when combined with
all the other signals that make it a legitimate asset class, sky's the limit.
I mean, if you can all of a sudden use your Bitcoin right next to your Tesla stock or
your QQQ or SPY, whatever, your mutual funds and such, to take a loan against your entire
securities portfolio, and that's just a part of it, incredible.
If you can now say, hey, look, I can afford my mortgage and 12 months
of reserves here to make my payments because I'm holding Bitcoin on Coinbase, which is
the case right now. Right. That's what they're saying. Not in self-custody. That's what would
count. Not saying it's right or wrong. How huge is that? Right. Imagine having 90% of
your net worth in Bitcoin and them telling you, you can't afford your mortgage. You're
like a billionaire. Now, that happens, right? It's
crazy. Where do you see this thing going over the next six months? In the year? Where are we?
Up. I don't know. 130s, 150s. Could be much higher if things stars align. You know, I think you always
have to just temper expectations because you never know when the next Black
Swan or whatever will come.
But I will say that every quote unquote Black Swan we've seen for markets has just sent
markets down for a day and then higher.
So we've had multiple wars, right?
That has a matter.
What Black Swan could hit us that would hurt Bitcoin?
A credit, some sort of credit event.
Credit event, nukes, default on debt.
You know, like, I don't know, I'm not saying those things will happen, but there's a lot
of listen, it's certainly not anything geopolitical because we've seen what people would have
expected to be bad geopolitically and markets just continued up.
We're just, you know, I guess, you know, a world war, if that actually
happened, if we're not being hyperbolic, a world war could send it down. But to be honest,
world war might be the thing that sends Bitcoin way up while other things go down. So I can't
even say that that sends Bitcoin down.
The cyber attack, full on global cyber attacks, the only thing worries me or nuclear war.
I've never had an investment thesis that I could do this in. I'm like,
wow, I don't care what they do. I don't care what they do. They can't pull the rug. Now,
they could have done that at FARTY. They could have done it four or five, eight years ago.
Maybe not easily. Well, they did do it four years ago. The whole Sam Bankman free deal was to crush it,
which I actually think we're going to be happy with. In retrospect, we're going to be happy that-
Sam gave you lower prices and a temporary respite, but he certainly didn't change the
overall trajectory. No, not at all. I think all of that that happened helped
expose some of this gratuitous froth.
And so we understand what might be more of a scam and what might be more legitimate.
I think that all those things that happened have taken some shine off a lot of the altcoins
people would have maybe been plowing their money into that don't have a utility or value.
I'm not saying all of them.
I'm saying some of them that they might have put their money into.
If you want to give a real silver lining to all the attacks by Gary
Gensler, all of the attacks by the government, the insanity we saw as a
response to SBF and those other things, it's one of the biggest reasons Trump
was elected and that we now have a pro crypto government because at the
beginning, listen, I do believe Trump and his family like deeply believe
like at this point, I think they've been orange.
Well, they need the banks dude. Well, listen, at the beginning, he like at this point, I think they've been orange. Well, they're the banks dude.
Well, listen, at the beginning, he like at the beginning, he was launching NFTs and he was like,
hey, my NFT, this guy made a comment, right about an NFT or something. And he was like,
wow, these guys really like when I talk about crypto. And then he saw the money coming in.
And then he said, fire Gary Gensler. And then the technologists and the entrepreneurs and the
billionaires and the crypto people started donatingologists and the entrepreneurs and the billionaires
and the crypto people started donating massively and it helped turn the election.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have won otherwise.
I have no idea.
And then that led to follow through by the administration to continue to keep that money
going and to buy this asset and to support this asset.
I don't think that happens all of that without the massive negative that threw the pendulum fully in the other direction.
Because the anti crypto army, the Elizabeth Warren, Gary Gensler, Joe Biden,
bullshit against our industry pissed so many people off that non-political people became
massively political and swung an election. Amazing. That's what I think. You know,
when you bring up Trump, I have become pretty convinced that of all the sectors
who supported him, the people that will be most happy with his follow through will be
the Bitcoiners.
How ironic.
How ironic is that shit, man?
Because all the other things gets down into the deep, longstanding political pitfalls
that have existed forever.
You start talking about the big political issues that have existed forever.
Wars, right?
I mean, the military industrial complex, all these things.
Like, listen, you can think what you want about it, but we started this administration
with Doge and cutting and we ended with the big in word out the big beautiful bill
And grow our way out of it, right?
Once again not making a judgment whether which one is correct or not
But we all know that every path leads to money printing because this is the united states government and money printing has no party
Right. And so if you believe that
Crypto will continue to be popular as long as we don't fuck it up ourselves in some way with another SPF for a while.
But it's going to be an issue that they can use to raise money and will be politically
popular and it's just, it's a no brainer.
It's a no brainer for them.
So I really think we all agree the government's going to do what it's going to do and Bitcoin
is a good solution to that.
And now the government agrees with that.
Hey, you brought up pal.
There's a lot of news right now, a lot of rumor coming out saying pal is going to resign.
Do you think that's really in the offing or are we just it's just rumor and gossip?
I think they're just bullying him, having a good time trying to force his hand.
But I think like there's no reason for him to resign unless he's just sick of getting
bullied or, you know, sick of being made fun of or sick of being criticized.
Where is this hand up here?
At some point in Trump's term, his term at Powell goes out at the end of his own term
and we get a more favorable Fed chair.
I have mixed feelings on Paul.
I think they obviously blew it.
The Fed is always behind, always blows it, overshoots in both directions, transitory
inflation, all of the insanity that we saw before.
But at this moment, I can't really criticize him for not cutting rates at this exact moment.
They cut rates before, right?
And then interest rates went up.
So if the idea was to get interest rates to come down and they went up when they cut,
you have to be cautious.
The only reason you cut rates is because there was so much money deployed in 20 and 21. And it's under
fucking water. Okay. All the commercial, a quarter of the multi-dwelling real estate
guarantee a quarter of it. Okay. Anything that was bought in 2021 did so without a fixed
rate because the banks were looking at me going, bro, we will never, never, never not
give you money. I mean, forever. They were like, interest rates are not going up. They gave me 120% loan
to value on this house. And when I'm signing the document, 120%,
11 million dollars on an 8.6 million dollar house. Do whatever you want with
the rest of it, right? I'm sitting at a signing table for
lunch in Clearwater. There's five bankers there. Three of them are salivating, man.
They cannot wait to sign this thing because I'm looking at them going, wow,
you guys are gonna make ten grand on this trade, right? Or whatever. You can
see they're making bonuses. I signed the deal because I thought they were gonna
pull it out from under me. I looked at all of them. I said, have you guys run out of really, really
rich people? And two of them went, yes. And that was my thesis that the super, super wealthy
people, they already have everything they need. Literally, they are maxed out on consumption
and they're full in every fucking bucket of investment
thesis or anything they could buy.
They have so many Rolexes and there's one thing they don't have, man.
It's got a finite supply.
3,500 billionaires are worth 5.4 billion each.
And I think there's 30 or 40 billionaires seriously playing in Bitcoin today.
Oh, I agree with that.
Dude, that's significant, right?
I would actually flip that.
I would say that there's hundreds of billionaires you've never heard of who got there because
of Bitcoin and are anonymously wealthy.
Yeah.
I know a few.
Yeah, no, they're not on any
Forbes list who nobody's ever like asked and they've never
told but you know, I know they own and that's how they got
their I have 10 20,000 Bitcoin and nobody knows they're
quote unquote billionaires because apparently Bitcoin
doesn't count. And nobody tells someone and they have 10,000
Bitcoin if that's their entire net worth. So
It's a lot more billionaires and 3500. We've probably got a thousand of them ourselves and nobody knows about
You think so? I'm not sure that 100 certainly a few hundred. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but nonetheless man
Okay, when we start thinking about wow, you got less I mean, if you had 300 now putting new money
and they're all worth five and a half billion each, 300, that's 10% of the pool of billionaires.
That's before we get to the millionaires and the ultra high worth people. So I just, I
go back to your comment about, you know, risk reward, risk adjusted entry point.
This is cheaper than 10 grand.
For sure cheaper than 10 grand.
10 grand was a lottery ticket.
But the lottery tickets aren't making investments here.
This is real money.
Where are we?
113,400?
Yep.
And it looks like we're, what do you think?
We're going to push this thing this weekend, buddy.
We're going to push into the 15, 16s, try to find a top and then come back down.
It's hard to know, man. You know, there's a blue sky breakout. If it closes up above here.
We've never been here before, dude. I think it's like 120, you know, I,
Really? Now, when you, when you look at those numbers, are you looking at any particular,
what are you looking at to come up with a 120 that should just?
It's only like a 10% move.
That's just a little nice little Bitcoin move to like get you a solid floor above the previous
high.
Yeah, it's up 6%.
Yeah, that's probably 118, 117.
Nothing.
That's a day.
That's around a year.
That's going to shake up a lot of people, buddy. These kind day. That's around a lot of people,
buddy. These kind of numbers will shake up a lot of people, I
think. I don't know if it makes them rush in. I suspect it does
actually. Yeah, I don't think my brother's fully deployed. I
think, you know, the more you do this, the more you're like, Hey,
shit, I should have done more. Listen, at 120, everyone's gonna
be like, I could have bought this shit at 100 a couple
of weeks ago.
What am I doing?
I missed 20%.
And then we'll correct to 100.
So they can feel really terrible.
And then I'll go back up because they won't buy 100 because now that tobacco 100 is going
to 80.
Just buy it.
Stop thinking about it.
Where do you see our low this year?
Do you see if we retrace where would you think it would not retrace below?
Uh you mean a low like from here on out? Yes sir. Because I think 74 was the low
right for for this year that was in April. Uh listen if it if things got really messy and the
whales wanted to really mess with people maybe the high 80s low 90s.
88 would scare a lot of people if it broke 90. I, dude. I've been waiting for this. You and I, you said this to me on the
plan when we were flying out to Vegas. I'll never remember. We were talking. We were at like 100.
I was like, 88. I was like, I like 88. You were like, oh, I'm buying Bitcoin at 88. I don't know
if it's this year or next year or two years, but I don't know if that's changed. But you know,
we were both got to have that tagged. Yeah, No, I think I'll see an 88 again, but we need to see big numbers.
That's why I think you need to see the 200s and then you'll have a big old retracement or
250 or 300. I mean, this thing can most certainly retrace again, 70%, 80% relative to where it goes.
If it goes up, if it goes to a million, it will retrace a monster amount.
We're gonna get 40, 50% drops probably still.
We just had like a 35, 38, whatever.
I mean, where do we go?
We went from 109 to 74.
Like did people not remember that was this year.
It's not like you say we're not immune to this stuff
just because we're making a new all time high right
now. So 120 to 88. Great. Nice gift. Normal bull market
retrace. Grab it. Great. Smash it.
Do you wake up grateful every day that you ended up in this
industry? Like how lucky are you?
I like there's a part of me that does. But there's a part of me
that would have been more grateful if I was one of those
quiet billionaires and didn't have to deal with the shit that comes with being in this industry.
Yeah, but that's not who you are.
You are who you are.
So I'm grateful to I got to tell you, I could have done.
I'm very grateful.
But some days it pushes my buttons.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Listen, every job has has its bullshit, right? I don't want to do
this recording, but or whatever the deal is, we're going to hit 114 here. Watch this. If we talk
long enough, we'll smash through it. We'll be at 115 if we keep talking. I think we're good for the
market, Scott. I think that's what we should become the ambassadors, the Bitcoin ambassadors.
We'll have the board elect us next year for 10 years. Yeah. I mean, if these guys talk, our price goes up. No, not financial advice. Please
contact your financial advisor. Past results are not indicative of future. Yeah. Past performance
is not indicative of future results. How many emails have I gotten with that before in the
bottom?
Well, listen, I want to say that I think the industry is grateful and it's better that
you're in the space than you're not.
You too, man.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Well, I love being here.
It's an awesome space, man.
I keep saying there's going to be a million people employed in the Bitcoin industry.
This is an industry.
We're seeing young men get $200,000 a year jobs being Bitcoin strategy managers,
strategic advisors to public companies.
That is fascinating to me.
It's so awesome that people are going to have
really great careers out of this.
It's not just about buying Bitcoin.
You are employed in the Bitcoin industry,
not just about your Bitcoin holdings.
That's a big deal, man.
When it becomes an industry size, like you have real jobs, like the guys at
Bitwise, I mean, dude, these guys, they could be working at Goldman right now,
bored to fucking death, and they have become prominent players on Wall Street,
man, prominent fucking players on Wall Street, man, prominent fucking
players on Wall Street because of their focus.
They're in the right space and that's 99% of the problem finding the right fucking table
to play at.
I think we found the right table.
That's for sure.
Are you playing Sunday night with me?
I'm not going to be here.
I didn't know the date, but I'll do the next one.
Well we're going to start doing it every two weeks, man. Let's get a game going to
every two or three weeks in Tampa. If you got a lot of money and you like to lose,
contact me or Melker. We're going to put a game together. We love people that don't know how to
play high stakes poker. So come on, fish. I haven't played in a long time, but I used to be very good.
It's been a while. I'm gonna have to like, uh, you know, update myself on the new theories and strategies, but, uh,
just call when I take that.
My strategy is always find the donkey and wait for them to give you their money.
So yeah, not so different than trading.
Not so different. At least you know who the players are at the table though.
Listen with me, all you do, there's one thing with me, when I raise,
you just say I call I
Raise you call
Over the top All right, buddy. Hey listen, I could sit here and talk to you for a long time
But we'll be a lot richer than we are. So I think we ought to let everybody go. Have a good Thursday afternoon
Thank you for everything you do man. Tell your wife wife hello for me and you guys have a great holiday.
All right, guys.
Thank you, everyone.
Bye, Gary.
Thanks, man.