The Wolf Of All Streets - Catherine Coley, CEO of Binance.US on the Challenges of Running a U.S. Crypto Exchange, Playing from the Men's Golf Tees, Wrestling Alligators and More

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

In this episode of The Wolf Of All Streets, Scott Melker talks with Catherine Coley, the CEO of Binance.US about nearly every imaginable topic under the sun. In this whirlwind episode, they discuss everything from the regulatory challenges of running a crypto exchange in the U.S., being a woman in tech, and how we reach mainstream adoption of crypto to the Florida Man stigma and wrestling alligators. Seriously. She has wrestled alligators. --- ROUNDLYX RoundlyX allows you to dollar-cost-average into crypto with our spare change "Roundup" investing tool, manage multiple crypto exchange accounts in one dashboard and access curated digital asset content and services. Visit RoundlyX to learn more about accumulating your favorite digital assets when making everyday purchases. --- VOYAGER This episode is brought to you by Voyager, your new favorite crypto broker. Trade crypto fast and commission-free the easy way. Earn up to 6% interest on top coins with no lockups and no limits. Download the Voyager app and use code “SCOTT25” to get $25 in free Bitcoin when you create your account --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe.This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

What's up, everybody? This is your host, Scott Melker, and you're listening to the Wolf of All Streets podcast. Every week, I'm talking to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, trading, art, music, sports, politics, and basically anyone else with an interesting story to tell. So sit down, strap in, and get ready, because we're going deep. RoundlyX.com is one of my favorite companies in the entire crypto space. What they do is they take all your small purchases and they round them up to the nearest dollar and invest that money into any of 25 crypto assets of your choice.

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right, free Bitcoin to try out my favorite crypto trading app. Use promo code SCOTT25. This podcast is powered by BlockWorks Group, the only events and podcast production company I trust. For access to the premier digital asset conferences and in-depth podcast content, visit them at blockworksgroup.io. I promise you will not be disappointed. Hey, guys, I'm beyond excited to chat with today's guest, who is a titan in the crypto space and one of the most interesting people that you could ever hope to meet. I'm pleased to welcome the CEO of Binance US, Catherine Coley, to the show. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk.

Absolutely. Thank you, Scott. So, it sounds like you had quite a morning today. Can you tell us what happened on the way into work? Yeah, it was no dull day. I'm sitting over there trying to figure out if there's a tweet that's worth doing. And I kept on thinking of the little Nemo, just keep swimming. But I kept on thinking, just keep diddling. And sure enough, I was having to come to this podcast. So, I woke up, I sounded a little bit worse than this and got on a scoot, scooted to the office, screaming at the top of my lungs, vocal exercises that you'd hear Ron Burgundy do. And so, sure enough, mommy made me mash the M&Ms or brown cow, how now, you know, quite entertaining on my way to work. But I think it's good to start your day with a little bit of perspective so that we know that we can take forward cryptocurrency and digital asset era forward.

For sure. Can you give us a sample of what those vocal exercises might have sounded like? Mommy made me mash the M&Ms. Something like that. From my old acapella days. I sang acapella in college, actually. No way. I'm almost ashamed to admit, but our group was really, really popular back then. It's called Penn Six at the university of Pennsylvania.

That's awesome. Yeah. No, I got totally, totally got rejected from college acapella. So you probably came out of it on top. It's still the reason why I hustle every day. Everybody needs their motivation. So I hear like me that you're actually a Florida native. Yeah. I grew up in a right outside Orlando. Oh, nice. Not far from me. that you're actually a Florida native. Yeah, I grew up right outside Orlando. Oh, nice. Not far from me. I'm a central Floridian, too.

So why do you think that everyone believes that the people in our state are crazy? And how do we eliminate the Florida man stigma? We, you know, to some extent, I've always believed if they call you crazy, you must be onto something. But the idea that I grew up with birthday parties and alligators might be a common guest or after school, like we'd watch rockets go into outer space. Like that's just normal for me. And when you say it out loud, it does make us sound a little crazy. You know, there were sinkholes that would happen around our neighbors and their entire house would get swallowed up. And you're like, what is this? Oh, it's just the Florida aquaphor. So, I think our survival instinct is significantly stronger than

others. And so, I pride that as a gift that I'm constantly thinking of the worst case scenario, my scenario to solve that solution, and then just dreaming the impossible can actually happen. Yeah. I mean, I think people actually don't realize it's kind of funny on a more serious note that Florida has very progressive laws on freedom of information, actually ahead of most states. And so our arrest records and mugshots and stuff are immediately available the second that they happen, which I think has something to do in my theory, at least with perpetuating that because you can't get that information on crazy people in other states. Oh, that's terrible. But yeah, that would definitely lead to the reason why. My first job actually in college was the cops reporter for the college newspaper. So I'd read

the cops blotter and figure out what was the best stories to share among the University of North Carolina to either instill fear or question people's abilities to, uh, you know, live in a, in a lawful world. Do you remember any of the most amazing arrests that you reported on? Um, there was one and it was like a man shouting, I'm a squirrel repeatedly. Um, and, and that was, that was one of the ones that definitely went down in history, but. Nice. And Florida, we just call that Tuesday.

Exactly. So you actually grew up in central Florida. So does that mean that you were, I grew up in Central Florida in Gainesville, actually. Yeah. So that means you're definitely a Disney kid. Oh, 100% a Disney kid. Every Sunday after church, actually, we'd go to Disney, write out some of my energy that I had as a young kid. So it was great. I'd have dinner in Morocco, watch some fireworks, go home, call it a Monday, next day around. And I think that is a huge amount of imagination that I'm definitely grateful for. But I also was so impressed that when I did get the opportunity to travel

around the real world, Disney did their research. They had a lot of accurate pieces representing some of the locations that they were trying to portray. Specifically Epcot. Yeah, you mean Epcot. Yeah, Epcot. Even Animal Kingdom when they had, there's a Nepalese exhibit that goes down kind of a water area. And I was just really excited by the fact that even if someone can't get to those parts of the world, they're seeing it somewhat accurately, more so than I thought, more so than just a total imagination state.

So I've always been a huge fan of Disney. Yeah, Disney food and wine at Epcot is like one of our favorite things every year. You get to just go drink around the world at Epcot. Yeah, I was like 13. So my parents were like, yes, exactly. Yeah, you got to do it again as an adult. It's actually a lot of fun. So like what kind of, I mean, I guess that touches on what kind of child were you?

How did it put you on your path sort of to where you are now? Yeah, I'd say, I mean, I definitely come from a, you know, rather traditional household where, you know, we had to work hard in order to earn what we needed to get. So, my sister and I are both diligent workers. She works in traditional finance and I started out that way, but saw the light to some would say into technology and then crypto that is. But I really just, I give a lot of dedication to the discipline that my parents taught me from an early stage. We were kind of heavy into sports, heavy into that kind of focus mentality, always staying positive. But one thing that Disney did give me was that sense of going on a roller coaster early on,

testing those limits of risk, and then realizing that, you know, I'd probably be okay because it was Disney after all. So, if anything were to happen, there'd probably be a decent case or something to settle. So, I was like, all right, I can go on that ride. And I was a tall kid, so I guess I got on some of those rides a little bit earlier than others. But I certainly, I have such a, I love adrenaline, certainly love taking calculated risks, that is, but definitely still a devout believer of hard work gets things done. That puts you on the path, obviously, but why finance? So, why do you think that that's where you ended up? Yeah. Well, when you realize that like the prices of Disney tickets kept increasing over the years,

even for Florida residents, we got huge, you know, nice tax breaks for Shamu and stuff. You realize that like life is expensive. And if you want to live in a world, you kind of have to afford it. And I wasn't looking out for a world, you kind of have to afford it. And I wasn't looking out for anyone to kind of sweep me off my feet and help me through that process. So, I had to learn how to manage my own finances, manage how the world managed finances myself. So, that's what got me motivated to kind of forge into how the largest money managers move funds around the world. And that's through FX or macro thinkers. Yeah. FX, Forex. And, you know, it was funny. There was two kind of realms in that. They were like, okay, you can go down investment banking, which is this like six month project,

you know, really long-term thinking. Or you could have kind of this fast-paced, quick decision-making, you know, recognizing and realizing your consequences in an instant moment. And that was sales and trading for me. So, it fit exactly with my personality, my attention span, my hunger for both a little bit of competition, but also decisiveness. And that's really what got me falling in love with the world of trading and, um, understanding it to go, Oh my God, there's an entire industry like built for people like me. Ah, I'm not, I'm not an, I'm not a loner here. Um, now true that made me, you know, sit next to a guy with an iron maiden t-shirt on and another guy had a bear claw on his desk and, you know, another guy just had coffee on an IV drip. But, you know, that was the

world where I felt my fit in. And I think that's always something that I'm super grateful for finding those different environments that actually do reward people for how they think. That's interesting. Actually, I graduated from Penn in, I hate to admit, but in the late 90s. And that's when, you know, the investment banking boom was absolutely huge. And coming out of that school, it was like, I mean, it was like Halloween candy, they were giving out jobs. So I actually passed on an investment banking job when I saw my friends kind of in that structured environment, 100 hour a week, never coming home, never showering. So I can definitely see why there'd be more appeal sort of on the trading side, for sure. Yeah, I was like, never showering. I'm signing up for that. No.

I'm good. So, you touched on it, but in your career, you've kind of lived and traveled all over the world. It sounds like it. And I know from reading about you that you have, what was your favorite city that you've lived in and why? Yeah. I'm a real kinetic learner. So, I kind of got to do it in order to learn it, which is partially why i dive deep into a lot of things but um coolest city i you know i loved copenhagen when i was there i was there for um a semester at copenhagen business school and it was it was one of the first places i've been where everyone was my height and taller and so i was like whoa this is you know

way to be out and then i spent the rest four years later after that in Asia and absolutely loved it. So, I still have such a strong passion for, you know, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Guilin. There's so many parts of Asia that are just so unique in the stories of how they became cities, how they became economic centers, what they've done since. And just the pace at which they operate is one that just suited my energy frequency. And I absolutely adore, you know, remaining a liaison with, with those, the culture and the economies there. Yeah. I actually toured in Japan with a Japanese artist for like the bulk of 2006. What a great year. Awesome. And I can tell you, I felt like an NBA basketball player over there as well. And I'm only

six feet tall. But I was actually really surprised when I ended up effectively paying taxes twice on the income that I made while I was over there. And I'm sure you've had some similar experiences as a result of living in foreign countries. What are like some of the unexpected challenges from living abroad? Yeah, they don't tell you because you're pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, you're going to be taxed 30%. And, you know, I just remember being so frustrated that I was choosing to go outside of the comfort zone, like breaking the molds, you know, being a rebel in my family. And it was a penalty, you know, where versus my friends that were local, you know, local bank managers racking in, you know, regular salaries, but they just didn't

have the burdens that I faced, such as, you know, foreign transaction fees, you know, double taxation, you know, buying new furniture every time you move. Some of those little things. I mean, I think there's a there's a sad fact that I think I've shipped some IKEA furniture around the world that didn't even deserve to be made. IKEA furniture is only good for the place that you build it once you move it not no no no no sir uh if i've built something i'm gonna be gonna be proud of it for a little while um but no the uh those elements just it came as a scary thought but it also became as a motivator so my rationalization that i was being penalized for taking on these added risks made me say, I need this to be more accessible because I know I'm tough and I know I've seen a lot.

I mean, I've wrestled alligators, et cetera. But not everyone's going to be like me and not everyone's going to choose to take this shot. And the experience that I've been able to have, the people I've been able to meet crossing cultures has been hugely benefiting. So why would this come as a burden to other people? And why does this become a dissent, you know, disincentivized method of expanding our horizons? When you've wrestled alligators? Yeah, they put you on one when you're like six, you know, the thing's got its rubber

bands around its mouth. So, I not I'm not too worried. But Florida man, this is our problem. Yeah, Florida woman starts an exchange in America. I was waiting for that. I was waiting for that headline. So how did you end up back in the States, actually. I was in London for two years after Hong Kong. And I mean, talk about a penalty that just the London salaries were like 30% less than the Hong Kong salaries. So, there you are taking a voluntary cut to explore what is, quote unquote, the largest financial center in the world. And you're kind of going, is this right? Is this just? But I'm going to do it for the experiences. And man, oh man, we witnessed like the peg break on Euro-Swiss. We witnessed, you know, the Scottish referendum. There were some

wild macro events that occurred, including Brexit. And so, or the beginnings of Brexit. So, Morgan Stanley got rid of about 40% of their fixed income workforce and really pivoted more towards their private wealth, which seeing their recent acquisition of E-Trade just makes me feel a little bit more confident that they were definitely serious about their pivot. But I ended up just being in London going, oh God, I've got five plus years of Wall Street background. No one owes me anything. The market owes me nothing. Where do I go? What do I do? How do I keep passionate and motivated on this journey that I've set out to do, which is super niche. Most people in FX, you know, are a hundred years old before they get told they have to find a new job. And there's a real exit strategy concern in foreign exchange because you're so focused on

essentially rounding errors for the average person. And so, you know, it's like extremely humbling when you pull back and you go, literally no one cares about my industry. You know, people travel the world and never question, you know, what a couple of pesos do in their pocket. You know, Google and Samsung and all these huge corporates will always write down their P&L, FX, FX P&L in their earnings and just be like, yeah, would have been a great year, but had a little bit of a knock on FX, still hit it out of the park. So, you think about, you know, what are the alternatives for that? And I found myself saying, all right, you're one to quickly adopt

technology when it gets released. I'm always fascinated in how technology can actually bring us close together and tear us apart at the same time. So I was like, all right, just be true to who you are. Test out San Francisco. It's where they say everyone goes and finds their tech self and try it out. And I went through countless rounds of interviews in San Francisco and kept on being probably the most annoying interviewee I think many payments companies have met. I kept on asking them about their FX P&L. you expanding into India. But like, what are we doing about those rupees? Like, I'm serious. Like, you've got a you've got a workforce outsourced, you know, this seems like a high cost. Are you guys functional in the US? USD? Are you functional in India? Like, what's the what's the functional currency here for your accounting standards? And they just looked at me like, did you want a job? Or did you want to go and like, go to the very, very far corners of our office and figure out what's really making it tick.

Did you ever just consider becoming a retail trader and sort of doing it on your own? You know, I do and I did and I didn't at the same time. The technology available for me to do that with both, you know, call it interactive brokers or call it e-trader or such, just didn't fit my mode of what I wanted. I wanted to see other feature sets built into these systems. I wanted to see faster settlement times. I wanted to see different crosses available. And so I kind of always felt that I could help a company get to a point that would make sense more than I could just trading the markets on my own.

But that kind of leads us now to where I am sitting now. And it's, you know, it is that tug of war of, am I building something that I really want to use one day? And when can I start using that? Right. Well, that's obviously a question for those of us in Florida and a number of other states, of course, which I actually asked you about that. I've got to imagine it's an incredible undertaking trying to navigate the regulatory environment, not only just of the United States, but of each and every state individually. I mean, what does that look like for you? Yeah. So, the U.S. is a special one, as well as just the timing. I mean, we've seen such a difference in awareness from regulators from

2012 when things started kind of bubbling to the surface to now where they're actually familiar with what a marketplace business model looks like. They've seen countless applications for state licenses come forward. I feel like MTLs or money transmission licenses are so in vogue. It might actually be a sought after job for college candidates. But the aspect for getting these licenses is so individual. I equate it kind of to applying to colleges, which doesn't also resonate with everybody. But when you apply to colleges, they usually have like a common application. And then you get into a couple schools through that. Or you have like the individual essays for each school.

And I remember colleges like Davidson or Williams had like these very specific essays that you could never just copy and paste from another essay that you wrote. And so that's kind of how it feels like applying for these state licenses. The requirements that we're asked to fill in for each of these states is so specific that we really want them to know our business well. And they want to know why we want to do business in their state. And to me, it's super exciting because we see these vibrant communities like Texas, Florida, Connecticut. There's a guy that asked me every day when Connecticut on Twitter, and I absolutely love it. It's tenacity is what keeps me going. And so it's really, you know, a cadence and a dance on both sides. Us being able to present ourselves in the best way forward, them being able to evaluate, you know, our business in their state.

At the same time, they've got hundreds of applications. I'm not only in just cryptocurrency, but regular folks that want to just do money transmitter businesses in their states. What are the main barriers to entry for most of these states? I mean, obviously, you were able to operate in a number of states very quickly. So, what's keeping it in the other ones? Yeah, it comes down to the line of whether their crypto to crypto is considered a money transmission. So, in some states, crypto to crypto is not a money transmitter business. And therefore, we're able to launch and operate in 37 states right now. So, we use Prime Trust for our dollar custody right now. So, our custody is all done through a trust licensed entity. There's FDIC

insurance coverage on those dollar deposits. But the crypto to crypto business, that's really what we're holding ourselves back on. So, we got to get those licenses in place. That's 13 states out there. I know all of you that are worried and waiting and appreciate your patience. But I know it's super frustrating to not be able to partake in Binance US right now. The good part is you can still download the app and get familiar with it. You know, you just won't be able to KYC and go through the process. Well, I think that everyone understands that that's not on you as a company and it's, you know, a function of the difficult sort of regulation. So, I guess that brings us to what you actually

list on Binance US versus, you know, any other exchange in another country or Binance itself. How do you determine what you're able to list? Yeah, I mean, we started out with zero. So we've grown from there. We've run through everything through a digital asset risk assessment framework, which we put together with our team here. We've got a, you got a listings committee that approves each item and goes through the due diligence required to make sure that we're comfortable with listing certain projects in the United States, giving access to American traders to these liquidity pools. So, the elements that we really are checking on are far more strenuous than, say,

any other listing format that we've had prior. But that's because we really want to stay in the lines of the United States regulation. So, reviewing whether it's a security or not is certainly one of the steps. Evaluating the appetite inside of the United States, as well as the community. Is there something that can actually grow with the basis of secondary trading taking place? And is there a viable longevity for these projects? I certainly get excited about not being a gatekeeper to people's decisions on how they're going to understand and enter these digital asset markets. And truth be told, Bitcoin caught my attention. XRP was a means for me to understand how it would work in being

competitive with FX. Then you see so many other projects that are also like, oh, this makes sense. I see why this is being built. I totally understand why that's happening. I want access to all of these. So we really are not going to be a gatekeeper in deciding who can and cannot trade certain elements. We just want to make sure that we're reviewing them with careful due diligence to be adequate for an American trading audience. That makes sense. So you touched on XRP, obviously, and you were the head of XRP institutional liquidity. A, I have to ask, what does your day look like in that job? Because that's a heck of a title. Yeah, it was a tough one of a title.

I think I put it together. But really, my day started off, whether I was talking to exchanges, market makers, institutional buyers, understanding where, who, what was trading, why they were trading it, how they needed to be trading it. So, whether it was OTC, whether it was through an exchange. My job was really dedicated just to make sure that these markets that were going to be liquid were actually set up with healthy order books able to accommodate corporate flow should that come through. So, you see kind of the volumes that are going through XRP now from a

corporate standpoint. And that was really our job to make sure that it was ready for that volume. So XRP is arguably the most polarizing coin and company in the space. Why do you think that that is? You know, I think there's so many components that came when crypto first was blossoming. And there are these tectonic plates of personalities that came out early, early, early on. And you have to think about it in a similar way of, you know, the first pioneers claiming their own land, staking things out. I come to this game, you know, not at the same venue or viewpoint that the earliest adopters did. I'm coming in, um, you know, seven or eight years later than the first exchanges in the United States were launched.

I'm coming in with an institutional background in foreign exchange, um, not a, not a pure tech or cryptography background. Um, so I really can't comment on how, how personal or how passionate one must be when they're forging into this in their very unknown stages. So, I think that there are a ton of personalities early in the early days and maybe I'm here to kind of mitigate those and say, you know, everyone's got a use case. Everyone has a personality. Let's work together and make sure that we can deliver the best experience for what people really need. So, um, you know, selfishly, maybe taking it, taking the, uh, the ego out of it. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, so obviously I DJed for about 20 years and in the DJ world, by the way, you know, that was my first like dream.

It was like, it was like right when Armin Van Buren and Tiesto were just beginning to get like seen in the public eye. i was i was like okay if i if i stop working right now this is when i was in copenhagen and i was like if i stop focusing on finance right now i could actually hit the mark of when djs become commercial and it would have it could be huge yeah yeah i mean i was like dj frizzle because i have crazy curly hair um but then my i had already planned my. I was afraid of the headline being DJ Frizzle Fizzles. So I was like, fine, we'll go into

finance. At least you got ahead of it. But it's funny because in Gainesville in the 90s was one of the best kind of rave clubs in the whole United States. It was called Simon's. So even when I was in high school, you're like the biggest DJs in the world, Paul Van Dyke, Paul, all these guys,

places. Um, and a lot of people used to come up from Orlando actually. So that's sort of how I actually had my first exposure to DJing as well before I moved to college in a, in Philly. But what I was going to ask you about before is, as a DJ, I always hear this constant distinction. Like they'll make, you know, the top 10 DJ lists, and then it'll be like the top 10 female DJs have their own list. Right? It's like top 10 DJs in the world, top 10 female DJs in the world. My dream was to break that. In my mind, a DJ is a DJ regardless of sex.

The job is exactly the same. There's no special that comes with being a female or of sex. The job is exactly the same. There's no special that comes with being a female or male DJ. So I have to imagine that's somewhat more amplified in the tech and crypto space and wondering how you somewhat navigate that. Yeah, that's actually, you could compare it in a very, very right way. I think there's a, what we do as stewards of this market are deliver an experience to a user that makes them say, I'm having an enjoyable time trading. I'm able to do the job that I really want to get done. And maybe I'm getting the most competitive price in the market. Those three things are

kind of the elements that if I was going to choose a venue or a platform, that would make me happy. Same three things that when I listen to a DJ, does it make me dance? Does it make me feel good? Do I want to keep dancing forever? And so I think of it in a very similar way of, you know, we're purely here as just the workers to deliver something that overall will affect more lives than our own. You know, is this going to be able to be the most inclusive community that we can possibly build? Is this the lowest fees in the US to be able to lower those barriers to entry? Can we provide the most tokens or an adequate amount of tokens that allow people to feel and express themselves in these markets as they best suit and choose? So, I really, you know, I'm not here to be Tiesto and stand up on

stage and pump my fists in the air. I'm sure that would feel good for a little while. But I really, at the end of the day, want to make sure that everyone in the room is dancing. That's a really perfect analogy for it. I mean, I guess just really asking about what it's like to be, you know, differentiated as a woman in tech, when clearly the job is exactly the same. The job is the same. The market's always nothing. They don't see, you know, differentiated as a woman in tech when clearly the job is exactly the same. The job is the same. The market's always nothing. They don't see, you know, they don't see behind, oh, who's behind that computer. So, I think that's one of the reasons why I've always found it a comforting space, but definitely a difficult one. You know, I'm not going to deny the fact that people look at you kind of with four eyes and wonder if you can count.

And you have to be like, yeah, you know, I wake up the same day you do. And I love math too. But it's, you know, there's certain components to it that I think are really suited for helping people get ahead, where they may have seen biases early on. But crypto just has an amazing equalizer factor that I find when given the opportunity can set you free. So I'm all for it to be, you know, whether people think I'm the, you know, a male DJ or a female DJ. It doesn't really bother me. I go by my last name because I grew up in sports and trading floors. And sure, it helps people not send me emails that say, Dear Caroline. But a lot of that is just me trying to remove the natural biases

that take place in a market so that we can function and do our jobs best. So yeah, you once told me that there were three things that sort of bring people together universally, music, basketball, and crypto. so we touched on crypto um what kind of music are you into obviously you're into trance or at least were for a while but what kind of music are you always danced is that something that's been a part of your life it started um actually that was like my first step into the you know technology the the internet provided me this thing called aol radio and aol radio provided me Quiet Riot. And Quiet Riot had this terrible song that if you're a nine-year-old girl and you start singing that down the stairs to your

mom, she might actually put you in like an exorcist camp. So, yeah, I was obsessed with rock and roll, which led me into like learning how you could mix the two genres between rock and roll and rock and rap and then get into trance from there. And then we kind of saw the era of just the blender of music that we currently live in now. And so, I was obsessed with it. Like my subwoofer is the only thing I've taken around the world with me. And I just think there's a component to universal joy that we all can get from shared music. And shared music usually makes people dance. And so, you're either going to find sports be a common bond to bring competition, which is a natural human characteristic, or you're going to find joy and dance to unify people.

And a lot of things that divide us are the currency to which we pay for those experiences. So, you think about having something like Bitcoin that can unify the world to have an equal experience and an equal value exchange across the planet. You might actually have some of these barriers be broken down. But that's assuming I'm going to live to 1,500 years old. By the time you're aging, that might actually be a possibility. So yeah, I'll, I'll keep dancing. I'll keep listening to good music. I'll keep, you know, cheering on the discipline in this, this school of basketball. I think it teaches you so much more, the ability that you have to play both offense and defense. It's not another

team that comes and subs in. It means that you've got to be kind of both sides of the court. So, there's just a lot of lessons that you learn outside of careers and outside of school that I think people need to pay attention to. And crypto is one of those that teaches you that bond. Are you a basketball player? I was terrible. My dad was a basketball player. So, um, I have a lot of, you know, uh, the, the Kobe, uh, girl, dad, um, legacy. It's one that really hits home. Uh, cause my dad wanted, you know, five boys, maybe he wanted 10 boys and he got two daughters. Yeah. He got two daughters and we both did ballet for about 14 years. So, um, we did not dunk the

way that he wanted us to dunk, but he's still our coach on the sidelines. And I take a lot of the school of basketball, that dedication, that focus, insane amount of focus that you have to have in order to achieve something. You can apply that to anything. I mean, if I could have one superpower, it wouldn't be unlimited money or the ability to fly. I would literally just want to dunk on everybody all the time. I don't think I would do anything else in life besides dunk on people. Exactly. So you just got to figure out where you want to put the hoop.

Maybe I just need a five-foot basket and play against my kids. Yeah, you just take it as a metaphorical hoop. You can dunk on anybody. RoundlyX.com is one of my favorite companies in the entire crypto space. What they do is they take all your small purchases and they round them up to the nearest dollar and invest that money into any of 25 crypto assets of your choice. They integrate with your favorite exchanges so that you can round up into different assets all at the same time. And they do this all without ever holding any of your Bitcoin. This is by far the

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funds always stay liquid. Find out why so many people are making the switch to Voyager. Visit investvoyager.com or search for Voyager on the iTunes or Google Play Store and get $25 in free Bitcoin when you use the promo code SCOTT25. You did ballet, obviously, as a child. Were there any sports that you did play? Yeah, I did high jump. I did hurdles. I played golf with my dad. I played golf on a men's team my freshman year of high school. That was a lot. So when people asked me, well, there wasn't a girls team. So I tried out for the boys. I've got to imagine that's been a life lesson that they've carried with you. Yeah, it was. If you can play for the men's tees, no one cares.

My tee shot was just as long as theirs, so I made the team. Did they make you hit for, well, I guess that makes sense. They would make you hit from the men's tees. I play golf from the men's tees. So if that says anything about why I'm comfortable in crypto, maybe it does. I think it definitely does. But then again, I'm like, you know, I don't necessarily want to create a world where that's the requirement.

So just because I was comfortable doing that doesn't mean everyone's going to be comfortable doing that. So let's make it. Yeah, that's true. You know, of the things I always wanted to the, to go down, I was like, I should have, I should have stopped focusing on school and stayed, you know, stayed trying to be an athlete when I could, but you can't, you can't go back on that. And fortunately the body's a wonderful thing. After I've, you know,

completed a fabulous platform where everyone equally can accept and trade cryptocurrency, maybe I'll go back and try to become the athlete I should have been. Right. Well, you went to UNC. So, I mean, that's an absolutely consumed basketball 24-7 at that school. I mean, that had to sort of continue that tradition from when you were a kid. It is. Yeah. My dad actually played for Dean Smith. So, it was something that I live and breathe. Is that how you ended up at UNC, do you think? Yeah. Actually, like every single member of my family, except for my grandmother who went to Duke, has gone to UNC. Oh, did they talk to her? We do talk to her. She's actually the one that convinced me to go. I was torn between a couple

other schools because my parents gave me the freedom of choice like they do always. And she pulled me to the side and said, do you want to be part of something? Flipped open a dictionary and it had the word tradition. And I was like, ooh, you got me. It's like chills, grandma. All right. That's a, I'll be a part of that legacy. Don't tell anyone that went to Duke that she did that.

No, she's great. The first person I hired actually to Binance US is a Duke grad. So I think highly of that school. They always say hire people that are smarter than you. So I'll accept all Duke applications. I spent four summers actually going to a thing called the Talent Identification Program at Duke. Yes, I remember that. I spent my summers at Duke University taking college level classes when I was in middle school and high school. So I was a huge Duke fan, and then it wore off actually really quickly. I just couldn't get to loving them as much as I felt like I should. Yeah.

No, it's been a tough basketball season for Carolina this year. So I'll – you know, the good thing about passion is it goes longer than seasons. So I think that the – basketball might not be the thing that's bonding the world together as much as Carolina fans would hope. But you certainly see just the components of Duke and Carolina just recently. They had a blockchain event. They're leading the way in terms of educating students about cryptocurrency and blockchain itself. I'm flabbergasted by the advancements in their education system towards this. So big kudos to all the universities that are actually taking on new curriculum and breaking

down these educational barriers so kids can grow up and see themselves as taking on, you know, this is a career option. I think it's really exciting. Are you seeing a lot of talent coming out of college now that's very crypto focused? I'm seeing more talent that has that comfort level with crypto, more so than people that were shocked or having to make a 180. So I recently just taught actually Cam Harvey's class on crypto. And it was, you know, the most illuminating factor was the first five questions came from international students. So, I kind of, I turned the question back on themselves

and said, like, why do you all think that Bitcoin is making such an impact internationally versus in the US? And it was just apparent that the guy from Australia, Germany, India, you know, Indonesia, they all got it immediately. Whereas some of the U.S.-based students were still trying to grapple with a lot of the same factors that we see U.S. investors trying to understand. You know, but I don't get it. You know, what is the real purpose of it? And you just have to realize that the burdens outside our barriers are a lot higher. Why are we so behind as Americans?

Because I think that we're behind in, obviously, awareness, as you said, but certainly with regulation and the freedom. It's a question of are we behind or have we already catered a system to our own needs? I mean, the ACH model hasn't really been a problem for us. And it suits the needs of moving money across state barriers. So, if you think about it in that way, the U.S. was ahead. It had a faster payment system. It does work well within its own borders. It's just dollars are still the largest accepted item outside of the U.S. So, what are the other means to which the world is running that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies do alleviate those concerns. One of the things I always take as like a comparison is every flight out of Singapore is international. Right.

Yeah. So how many people, you know, in the US have taken an international flight? Every single person in Singapore has. So you just, you kind of have to always put yourself in other people's shoes. You know, recognize the burdens that I faced were insanely different than my friends that stayed in New York and covered equities and are at the top of their class and at the top of, you know, their careers because they've done a very good job at staying within, you know, their own realms of what they need to know.

Does it make one of us better or not? No. It just means that some of us look a little bit at a wider horizon line than others. Right. But Americans are inherently, or notoriously, I should say, terrible at putting ourselves in other people's shoes. We don't bother to learn other languages. Most Americans probably have never and never will get on an international flight, right? So do it. The food is great. It's funny, when I toured in Japan, most of my bandmates, half of us were American and half were Japanese. And most of the Americans didn't like Japanese food and would just eat at McDonald's or any American food. They were dying to find American food, which to me was crazy because obviously I was trying to explore the cuisine in every single city. But I think that, you know, Americans do have obviously a bit of self-centeredness and

comfortability with, you know, our culture and are probably the least versed at other people's. I say that and then I always ask the question of like, when was the first time I had sushi? Cause like, that's a, that's a pretty novel item of food. If you're coming from a, you know, regular American household and, and I hate to pinpoint it, but the first time I had sushi was at Disney. Of course. First time you do anything at Disney when you're from Florida. So it's a, it's pretty miraculous, but I, you know, that's, that's one of the things I challenge people to do. Always learn something outside your comfort zone. Invest in yourself to make sure that you're the best educated in what you don't know already. And then just, you know, take calculated risks.

You'll be surprised by the rewards in yourself, in your growth, and maybe in the bounty that comes from it. So, that's kind of where I just push people to think outside of that. That makes a lot of sense. So I've noticed that you're really, really engaging and good at Twitter. Is that something that you were doing? Obviously, crypto Twitter is in itself a huge meme, but were you a participant in Twitter? Was it something you used before you got into this space? It's funny. Like I felt like I was a dinosaur when I was learning Twitter because Oprah taught me how to use Twitter. She, you know, one of her 4 p.m. shows, I think it was probably 2008, I want to say

or so. She was like, everybody pull out your computers. And we pulled out our computers and we downloaded Twitter. And I used it for the majority of my college experience. And we used it like a GPS. We were terrible at it. We'd be like, to the left of the bar, tweet. To the right of the gym, tweet. On a treadmill, tweet. And so, we just used it terribly. So, I've had to shut down my previous Twitter accounts. And I used it pretty extensively when I was at Silicon Valley Bank because I was only there for a very short time.

But I knew that we were not communicating well with our clients. And our clients were all these startups that were using Twitter as their vocal mechanism. So, I was using it to be like, here's an update on Sterling. Here's an update on, you know, the yen. You know, it's hedging season. Remember to, you know, hedge your month end risk, blah, blah, blah. And so, I kind of was using it still there. But I think it's just how we communicate with people now. I find it, I'm struggling actually, because Twitter is still

pretty closed space. You know, it's tweets don't show up on the highway, telling you like, this is what's happening, or the radio doesn't read the top 10 tweets of the day. So there's still an isolation factor to Twitter, but it is a great way for us to hear live feedback from our customers. I reach out to people and engage with them on my Twitter DMs are always open. Getting feedback. You're welcome for punishment. Yeah, well, I think some people get a little shocked when I spin it around on them. And I go, you know, okay, well, thank you for that feedback. But where are you from?

You know, what made you think that this would be a useful feature to the platform? And they're like, oh, yeah, no, I'm definitely not in the United States. I think it would be a good feature. And I'm like, oh, well, you for like contributing to making our platform better. You know, that's pretty awesome that someone from all the way around the world wants to have a say into how the U S is going to be run. So I think it's, it's a wonderful platform to which we can be kind about and useful. It's also terrible and can tear people down and bullies are real. But if anything I can do, maybe we can have a bit more positive note to how we talk about things, how we discuss things. People get more to the point. I recently on a survey had, what do we need this week?

Like new features, new listings, a hug or Girl Scout cookies. I voted hug. You were not the only one it was like 40 of people voted for a hug so um if i could vote too though i would have also had some girl scout cookies during the hug i knocked down a whole box this weekend so i am definitely a glutton for punishment what's your favorite girl scout cookie um whatever one's open or available and my roommate had bought some thin mints so i so I owe her a pack. Do you put them in the freezer?

I do. But these weren't even in the freezer. This was just like I needed them. So I'm trying to figure out a way to get Girl Scout cookies to accept crypto. But the thing is, you have to be 18 years or older to be on Binance US. And I don't want to take away that feeling of financial freedom from these young girls. Yeah. So, I think it's something that we've got to work on. Right now, we have like a, you can't, like I learned how to manage money and this sounds terrible. I learned how to manage money when I had my first lemonade stand. And so, I was definitely

below the age of 18 when I was running a lemonade stand in Florida. Of course. You know, that's where I learned about supply and demand too. You dilute the lemonade and people don't like it. So, you got to make sure that you have just the optimal amount of, you know, lemonade mix, a classic, you know, as a mixed kid, not even a fresh lemonade. Yeah, bartenders learn the same trick with how much they can water down your bottles. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, I think those are great lessons that get people to really understand the real realistic components to things. More and more, we need to have those

conversations with young people, with old people, with everyone in between, even someone who had a finance background and had years of Wall street experience, I'm still learning. I'm still learning better ways of being smarter with my money, you know, knowing my, my risk parameters, being diligent about my entries and exits just like you are. So I think it's just make it less of a taboo subject. Realize everyone can talk about it. It doesn't need to be a bullied item. You don't need to be the best. You don't need to be a Chad. Anyone can talk about making sure they're protecting their own capital and

growing their own value. Of course, you touched on the fact that Twitter is somewhat a closed community. Obviously, your tweets aren't on a billboard, you said. I feel that that's true. Obviously, there's Twitter and then there's crypto Twitter within that and the crypto find the one solution for one type of person. And that's not going to be the answer. We're going to realize that, you know, my mom only reads certain newsletters. And when Finance US isn't mentioned on them, she doesn't think we exist. You know, she was like, you're not on the skim. How do I know you're a real company? And I was like, God, mom. But then you realize that the skim has like 8 million readers. And you're like, that is a huge community in its own. Like they, they read that for, um, their source of, of everyday understanding.

I was a big skim reader for a long time because it could do a better job of succinctly wrapping up the markets than, um, my New York analyst when I was in Hong Kong. And I get it at the right time zone. So I think we just need to figure out what bugle works for the right audience and keep hitting each one of them uniquely. It means it takes extra effort. It takes extra empathy. It takes even more understanding of what's really out there. But it's hard to take something as sensitive as your own money

and treat it like it's an equal thing. So, everyone behaves different around money. Everyone takes it personally. We have to be really careful about that and not just assume that it's something that everyone can get on board with one way or the other. I mean, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no. I always kind of compare it in two different ways of like one being, you know, someone holding their money under their mattress very carefully, maybe never even having a job, but getting that money from a family member or a friend. And then the other person that just kind of assumes it comes on trees. And so you

have to kind of make sure you're working within all the means of how money is interpreted. Yeah. I mean, in 2017, everybody was obviously aware of Bitcoin and crypto, but it was sort of because they thought they could buy it cheap and sell it for more, not because maybe they were passionate about the use case or what it could be. And in my opinion, in 2018, kind of almost did more damage than 2017 did good. Do you ever feel like you're undoing that damage? Or do you feel like the stigma has sort of worked itself out at this point? I definitely don't think the stigma has worked itself out. I think, you know, my family is just now getting comfortable explaining what I do to people and not looking like they've got a, you know, almost as much as saying like, yes, our daughter's an

international DJ. Like, you know, the response they'd get from that would probably be even more welcoming than, oh, yes, our daughter runs a, you know, US-based. You might be surprised. But, you know, it really comes down to the element of protecting the things that matter most to people. And in this era, people are really concerned about more, more elements than they were maybe five, 10 years ago when,

you know, privacy, you didn't even know it was being taken advantage of. You know, our data, when we first signed on for the internet, I didn't even, you know,

it was an AOL, an AIM username. Like that's not going to follow me anywhere. You know, versus now it's, you know, your components of your digital footprint or your digital identity are things that are going to be with you forever. And you have to, you know, really be mindful of where those kind of trails and things go through. So with it being digital money, you want to make sure that you're, you know, you're as sovereign of your own funds as you can be. You're aware of the security elements around where you're putting your cryptocurrency,

who's partaking in these marketplaces. And you really want to be certain that you're being taken care of in the best way possible. So that's how we see it from our angle of catering this experience using globally vetted technology that can handle the largest exchange activity in the world. Being catered and customized for an American audience, knowing our customers, going through anti-money laundering, really perfecting the essence of that security element or even the insurance element that people are wanting and making sure that we can deliver that to the audience that besties fit. I was the victim of a SIM swap only a couple weeks ago. And luckily, I didn't lose anything, but it definitely shook up my world for a few weeks, obviously. And I think that that is part of the barrier to entry is that people are fearful that they're not insured and there's nobody's going to protect them if they lose their money.

And maybe they don't know really how to maintain that security. So I think to some degrees, you know, you being in exchange, they might feel more comfortable with their crypto with you than they might, you know, having to deal with it themselves. I say that kind of casually to friends of mine that are, you know, I had dinner last night with a guy and he goes, I finally bought a whole Bitcoin. And I was like, oh, good on you. Like, did you just do it at once? And he's like, yeah, I just had to like go in the store, buy one whole Bitcoin. And I was like, no, that's not how it really works. Like, you know, you can average and he's like, I know, but I just, I needed to bite the bullet and I bought a whole one. And I was like, well, did you do it on Binance US? And he's like, oh, oh no, no, not yet. And I was like, well, did you do it on Binance US? And he's like, oh, no, no, not yet.

And I was like, buddy, why'd you do that? What's the deal there? And I'm like, you actually, you know that there are people behind these exchanges that run things and the customer service that's involved is something that we can definitely help people with. And I hope that's something that people enjoy about Binance US is that we do take our customer service

quite seriously and wanting to get to the problems that people have and resolve those issues. Because wading into these unknown waters of digital assets now, I do think you need to do your education first. But still, in everything we do, there's risks that you're unaware of or elements you're still uncertain with before you take action. And having someone there holding your hand, as well as just being a comforting source through it all, I think will make this experience of getting into digital assets a little bit better. The early days, we kind of assumed you knew it, you were in it, or you could do it on your own. And like Reddit isn't a comforting space to get

all your answers to. So, we're really here. I mean, whether it's finance Academy that can teach you, you know, how our platforms work, different orders, you know, staking, understanding how staking works, or it's just reaching out to us and having that conversation. You know, we're really I think there's a huge part of guiding people, teaching them the comforts of what they may or may not know, and hearing all sides of the story of why people are hesitant or what's holding them back from leaning into digital assets. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, hearing that even your own

friend didn't really understand it. I mean, but that's, I think, the experience for anyone in this community. I remember my friend in 2017 told me that his kid's nanny came to work one day and said that she had bought some shares of Ripples. Yeah. Plural Ripples. And she's like on shares post buying private market. You know, that's intense. Yeah, shares. So, you know, that's what we're dealing with here. And I think people just kind of don't quite understand the market yet. Or, you know, as you said, didn't have to buy one Bitcoin, you could just, you know, buy a little bit at a time, and they should be doing it on your platform. Yeah. Or even if you're not doing it on our platform, you're doing it through a way of earning it. You know, I think about the first

Bitcoin I accumulated was through 21.com. People send me me emails and I'd get charged for their replies. And that was great because I had no idea who these people were. And it was a way for me to get the adoption of getting Bitcoin without sacrificing what I call hard-earned lady dollars. It's like for every, you know, 77 cents over here, these are hard-earned lady dollars. So, you know, we want to make sure that we're putting things to use in the right way. So, even if you're earning it from a different mechanism or a website or, you know, I think about like the lollies or the Bitcoin rewards out there, what are you doing with those funds once you have them? You need to be more responsible than just leaving them on a platform. You know, put them back into an account, take them off,

put them in a trust wallet. You just need to be fluid with the whole cycle rather than one step of the process. Because the chances are, you'll have to go to the second step of the process. And if you're not comfortable with it, that's when things start to break down. So, it's really important to understand, you know, what comes from this full cycle rather than just a part of it. But I'm eager to accept people that are trying to learn the parts of it and put it together in a whole. So what parts of the industry do you think are most misunderstood? I think people still don't understand what it is. I can tell you that I've had friends who, you know, maybe had a ledger wallet and because I told them, you know,

that they needed to take care of it. And then they lost their password and didn't understand that they hadn't lost their blockchains because they hadn't lost their bitcoins. Excuse me, because they still had their seed phrases. You know, they don't understand what the keys are. They don't understand that they didn't physically put Bitcoin on that wallet. Right. And I think just the tech is way ahead of the level of understanding. I think that that's definitely a huge issue. Yeah, that's pretty fascinating. I think it's also, you know, generationally triggering. Like certain groups, myself thinking, you know, there's nothing better than having money that is sitting in my phone

rather than in my pocket or wallet or purse or, you know, wherever I find it, because I know that I always have my phone on me. Whereas my grandmother was like, why would you have a phone on you? That seems so absurd. You know, you have a car phone, but you don't take your car phone out to go to the store. And I'm like, yeah, well, no one has a car phone, let alone I don't have a car. So, I think there's just been some really interesting advancements that we've seen. I mean, we saw the Warren Buffett comment today on Bitcoin. And then you saw CZ's rebuttal and he goes, my grandmother never used US dollars. And I think that's a fascinating comparison. Yeah. And you kind of just realize that we're evolving in such a fast way. We need to not do this in isolation. We need to bring others with us, you know, gather around the classroom elements that we used to have that got us to know new technology together and do it more as a community rather than an isolated element. It's something, well, this is kind of back to our DJ, but I definitely think AirPods and earbuds kind of killed the beauty that was what music did for a community. Everyone

could enjoy it. Everyone could see that it wasn't shameful to dance to it. And now it's kind of this, you have to learn in isolation. You have to do things on your own. You know, it's less of a, you think you're, you think you're weird and special when really everyone thinks they're weird and special. So true. I mean, I think to answer your question also, I think another thing that is obviously volatility is incredible for traders, but it's terrifying for investors and certainly the older generation. So I think that, you know, obviously the dramatic price swings are very scary for a lot of people. That is a really true fact. And I think I come from such a unfair element of comfort around volatility because of my past of foreign

exchange. And truth be told, the volatility in FX did not prepare me for the volatility in digital assets either. Um, I mean, the largest, uh, swings we saw, I think we were like the, the bank of Japan intervened on Christmas day, uh, one year, um, that was maybe like a, you know, tens of percentage turnaround, but not 41,000% turnaround. Right. But there are schools of discipline to which you can become comfortable with these components, and you kind of know more about yourself through that process and say, okay, am I investing in this Bitcoin for a Thursday profit?

Or am I investing in this because I believe that the future going forward, call it 25 years out, will be inevitably digital. And I'll have to adopt some form of a digital currency if I want to be transacting globally around the world in the longer term. You know, that counters all the time with people saying, well, will there be a disruptor later on? And, you know, I think that's why we stay engaged and on top of the subject matter. You've got to be, you know, it's hard to stay in these markets when your head's not in them either. So, I think a lot of people here would be really shocked to find out

that you're 30 years old. Because when I was 30, I was just starting to finally get my shit together, even having gone to an Ivy League school and so many experiences, that's when I was 30, I was just starting to finally get my shit together. Even having gone to an Ivy league school and so many experiences, that's when I was finally getting out of debt and you know, quote unquote, making something out of myself. How have you achieved so much in so little time? Um, I mean, I guess I've experienced a wonderful amount of, of things really quite from an early, early stage. Um, whether that was, uh, you know, trying to be a 13 year old girl, making it on a men's golf team, um, taught me, you know, a couple of levels of grit beyond what I was comfortable with. Um, or, uh, you know, being rejected from the acapella club in college.

I'm over it. I was on the high school one. We had a good time. But, you know, there's so many elements to which I can't ever take one day and not be grateful for what I've been given. But what I seek out is something that is, you know, just as, just as magical as everyone else, everyone else has, you know, we're only given such amount of hours in the day. I'm not saying I'm Beyonce, and I spend, you know, every hour doing something

super, super valuable and important. I think maybe CZ does, kudos to him. Does Beyonce really spend every hour doing something? She must. She must. But I mean, there were definitely 10 minutes where I crashed my scooter today after doing vocal warmups. And I certainly enjoy that. Now, well, you know, what I've been, I've put myself purposely into intense environments in order to get a really concentrated amount of understanding out of them. So taking the idea of moving 8,000 miles to Hong Kong from graduating at Carolina, I wanted to thoroughly understand a very opposite side of the world and how it really moved. And our office was much smaller than the larger headquarters at Morgan Stanley. So, we took on a ton of responsibility and you had to, you know,

navigate in hours that most people were not awake. And so, I think doing some of those elements got me, I wouldn't say shortcuts, but definitely intense experiences or learning lessons that got me to... Life hacks. Yeah, life hacks, or just making sure your eyes are open. I mean, I also laugh that my first job out of college was a 24-5 job. And I've not stopped working 24-5, except for a portion of time when I was trying to transition between Wall Street and tech. Those weekends off in 4X are very nice. Yeah, the weekends off in 4X are nice, but you're still at, you know,

I think the Hong Kong nightlife was probably the networking opportunities of the year. We were, you know, everyone in the Hong Kong clubs was your clients, your competition, your, you know, your future bosses or future clients. So, it was a great, very focused area. I oftentimes criticize myself for that because Hong Kong, San Francisco are very concentrated places. I call it Hong Kong finance summer camp because everyone there was doing finance or teaching English or living their lives. But the concentrated expat population was certainly just heavily focused on finance. San Francisco, you can call us expat population because not all of us

are from the area. But we're all really dedicated and focused on our jobs and our careers right now. And so it breeds this kind of extracurriculars are still additive to your underlying curriculum that you're trying to learn. And, you know, blame me for being rather focused. I wish I was able to navigate in worlds where I didn't have to be 100% on. But I really do enjoy that intensity. So, you know, being 30 is great. I get to navigate between the world of TikTok and the world of, you know, asset managers and brokerage firms. I'm such a boomer in this world. I've never even signed into TikTok. I literally get called a boomer every single day. I'm 43.

I'm hungry to know how the next generation is going to be learning their information. I mean, LimeWire taught me about music taught me about CDs taught me about MP3s. I had a Zune, you know, I've I, I give credit to learning all the, all the ranks because information because information comes from somewhere. And my cousins are around the young, not yet teenager ages yet. And so they are my Fortnite analysts. And I'm like, all right, is the game still hot?

And they're like, no, we've moved on. I'm like, okay, well, what game are we on now? Okay, we're moved on. I'm like, okay, well, what game are we on now? Okay. We're back on Fortnite. Like, you know, I'm constantly using them as, as a source of, of keeping me cool. Maybe that comes from being like totally uncool my whole life that I still seek out people that are, are, you know, on the forefront of it. But I think, I think it's really important for folks to realize that opportunities come at any age.

I certainly don't think this is my final chapter either. This is just a stepping stone into me understanding a little bit more about how the world works and a little bit how we can impact it to be a better place. It's amazing. So how can everyone find you? Where can they reach you after this? You can always reach out. We're at Binance America on Twitter.

We're at Crypto Coley on Twitter. If you have any problems with the platform, it's at Binance US help. But then you can download the app on Android and iOS. We've got a website, we've got APIs on the website, depending on your sophistication level of trader. And then, you know, let me know where else I should be. I think Twitter is fantastic. We've got an Instagram, I think finance underscore US. I've got a terrible TikTok as well, but my content's not good. So don't worry about it. Like I said, I've never even been on there. It's fascinating. I think there's something to be said about the way that you can communicate and they figured out a way of, you know, taking talk show hosts and making them into everyone's pockets. So, it's fascinating. You no longer need to be Ricky Lake or Ellen or Oprah. You can be just someone on TikTok right now and reach audience members to the millions. Well, this is awesome. Really, really enlightening and fun talk. When we meet in person one day,

we're going to have a dance contest. I think we need to have a DJ. Yeah. A digital DJ would be great. So if you... It's easy. Once upon a time that when Binance US launched, I was going to DJ the party and we shared a lot of cats DJing memes, but we never made it happen. Well, we've not had our house swarming party yet. So we'll have you out here when we open up our doors to really be the welcoming home or what's called homecoming party. I'm 100% in. Well, thank you again so much. And I can't wait for everyone to listen. Sounds great. Thanks so much.