The Wolf Of All Streets - Chris Bukowski, Star of the Bachelor Franchise on his Amazing Crypto Story, Why Bachelor Contestants Are Not "There for the Right Reasons," How to Hustle and More

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

In this episode of The Wolf Of All Streets, Scott Melker talks to Chris Bukowski, reality TV star and the most frequent cast member in the history of The Bachelor franchise - 6 appearances! They discussed Chris's incredible entry into crypto through offshore gambling, how The Bachelor is completely contrived, what it's like to be a disliked public figure, being the target of a sim swap hack, how to hustle, working with Oprah and more. The amount of territory covered in this episode will leave you breathless. They even talked about what life would be like with a full upper body turtleneck tattoo. --- ROUNDLYX RoundlyX allows you to dollar-cost-average into crypto with our spare change "Roundup" investing tool, manage multiple crypto exchange accounts in one dashboard and access curated digital asset content and services. Visit RoundlyX to learn more about accumulating your favorite digital assets when making everyday purchases. --- VOYAGER This episode is brought to you by Voyager, your new favorite crypto broker. Trade crypto fast and commission-free the easy way. Earn up to 6% interest on top coins with no lockups and no limits. Download the Voyager app and use code “SCOTT25” to get $25 in free Bitcoin when you create your account --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe.This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

What's up, everybody? This is your host, Scott Melker, and you're listening to the Wolf of All Streets podcast. Every week, I'm talking to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, trading, art, music, sports, politics, and basically anyone else with an interesting story to tell. So sit down, strap in, and get ready, because we're going deep. RoundlyX.com is one of my favorite companies in the entire crypto space. What they do is they take all your small purchases and they round them up to the nearest dollar and invest that money into any of 25 crypto assets of your choice.

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right, free Bitcoin to try out my favorite crypto trading app. Use promo code SCOTT25. This podcast is powered by BlockWorks Group, the only events and podcast production company I trust. For access to the premier digital asset conferences and in-depth podcast content, visit them at blockworksgroup.io. I promise you will not be disappointed. My guest today is known for having the most appearances in history on the Bachelor franchise shows, but I think you'll find that there's much more to this guy than you've seen on TV. I'm pumped to welcome Chris Bukowski to the show. Chris, thank you so much for being here today, man. Of course. Thanks for having me, Scott.

So how many girls would you say that you've hooked up with on live television? I would say five. That's pretty respectable. You've had six appearances on the show. Is that correct? Well, it depends on what we're considering hooking up. So it could be anywhere from like five to 15, you know? So you basically kissed 15 girls. Yeah.

Unless we're like counting holding hands. Correct. Yeah. You know, first base. I mean, that's a lot, but I guess if you're actually the bachelor, it's like 25 or 30 on every single show, right? That's a good point. Yep. Seems like that would be dangerous for passing around cold sores and stuff. Well, so they test you before you go on the show.

So everyone's checked for STDs and drugs and all that stuff before you actually start filming. Wow, I had no idea. Does that mean that they actually wouldn't let you on the show if you had something? It depends. Usually they'll help you treat it if you got something that's treatable or they'll, if you did have something, they would have, you know, have something where it's, you can manage it, you know, while you're filming. Wow. The things that you don't think of about live television, I guess. So to that end, being on that show and being there so many times, do you believe that people have an accurate picture of who you really are from watching you on television? Or do you think that they sort of paint the picture that they want of each person that's there to make for better TV?

Yeah, I don't think you'll ever get the true depiction of anybody from that show. Cause I mean, there's so much filming and then it's cut so many times that, you know, you're, you're almost a different person every time you're on it. So I don't think there's really a, you probably get about half of me, you know, from what you see on TV.

So that obviously there's a lot more, I mean, a lot more to, you know, everyone that's on the show, but you know, they're making a show. So there's,

there's different things they got to stick in there and make different kind of characters it's funny one of my best friends was on one of the initial seasons of road rules if you remember that show on mtv and they effectively painted one of the guys that was on the show with him as gay by just the way they edited the show but he wasn't at all they just never showed him when he was talking to girls and sort of implied that that's what his situation was because it made for a better show. So I'm not really surprised to hear that at all, obviously. Oh, yeah, man. They were ahead of their time back in the day, because now it's... Yeah.

So what's... You said that people get about 50%. I mean, can you tell us, I guess, start from when you were a kid, what kind of person you are, what are people not seeing? Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm a Midwestern guy, you know, really just kind of chill. I mean, not not highly emotional. I'm a family guy. I grew up in Chicago. So, you know, on the show, you get you get you get both sides of the spectrum, um, of me, I guess. Uh, but you know, in your everyday life, you're just, uh, the average of, of both sides. So, um, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a family guy. Um, I keep my friends close and, um, you know, I'm not, uh, over the top, uh, with, with anything really just passionate about,

you know, uh, work and, um, and just being a better person. That makes sense. You said to keep your friends close. Does that mean enemies closer? Well, you have to do that too. Cause you know, you don't know who to trust these days, but yeah, you definitely got to keep your enemies closer. Yeah. I know you told me before that you're, you were an athlete growing up. What sports did you play? Uh, primarily baseball was my sports. Um, and I played football and basketball as well in high school. It's like the great American trifecta. I'm telling you.

And then that led you, I read, to going to school at UNLV. Now, I can't imagine... I literally can't make it through 2 days in Vegas without turning into a shriveled up dying raisin. So I don't understand at that age, how you could survive life in Las Vegas in college. What was that like? Well, it's insane. Let me tell you, people say if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. But I actually think that holds true for Las Vegas instead. Going to school there, it's a complete culture shock growing up from a suburb in Chicago.

But you learn really quick if you're going to survive or if you're not going to survive. And we had fake IDs probably a week into living in the dorms. And my first semester of college was a blur. And then you just realize, all right, if I'm going to stick this out for a couple of years here, then I'm going to have to try to get it together. I mean, we never fully did, but I think we all just kind of started to be a little more responsible, you know, me and my friends out there. And had a great time.

And we talk about it all the time. We go back often. And, you know, we're still true to our sports teams out there. So I wouldn't change it for the world. It was probably the best decision for me to go to UNLV. Obviously, I'm sure the culture shock, it was insane. And being a freshman there, I can't imagine having any level of maturity and being able to control yourself. What was the social scene, the strip?

I mean, were you like, did you guys hang out at the casinos? Did you go to the clubs and stuff? Or was it more kind of campus-based? Well, that's the thing. UNLV is not a huge college town. It's a big commuter college. And you're about 10 minutes off the strip. So early on, we would find the college parties locally. But then we found a sweet spot with our fake IDs. We ended up spending a lot of time at the Hooters Casino.

Nice. Because they were super lenient. Great wings. Yeah, great wings. They were super lenient on IDs. So we'd be in a poker game pretty much, I mean, twice a week. And, you know, the clubs were a little tougher, but, you know, I worked in the industry. I was working as a concierge at the Wynn.

Oh, nice. Yeah. So we were able to get into some of the clubs and some of the lounges. And obviously, once we turned 21, we went pretty insane. I worked as a host as well as one of the night clubs at the Bellagio. So yeah, no, we got after it for sure. So you were actually a concierge pointing people to clubs and bars before you were of the age to actually be able to go to them yourself. Exactly. Which was, you know, pretty insane. A lot of the hosts too, right? They want the concierge to be sending them, you know, tables and guests and stuff.

So they would come in and, you know, they would invite us out for a bottle and they would never ask if I was 21. So I'm not going to say no to a free bottle. That's, you know, one of the best clubs in Vegas. So, so we'd go and we'd have a great time. And it's Vegas, man.

I mean, everyone was kind of doing it. And that's probably the last city I think left where everyone's kind of, you know, you do me a favor. I do you a favor, you know, without expecting any cash,

you know, it's just a business kind of a business thing. Yeah. You scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. It's funny though. I had new friends who are concierges and actually in Vegas and actually told me at least that their kickbacks from, you know, hosts and promoters and stuff were largely greater than their salaries. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Whenever I'd send a table over to a host, he'd usually pop me $100 or $200.

And at that time, I was in college. So it was like, that's a lot of money for me. Let me tell you something. I would be loyal to 2 or 3 hosts at certain clubs and I would send them constantly. I'd be sending them business. I was actually more

interested in what they were doing than actually what I was doing. So it was an easy sell for me to get people to go out to the clubs in Vegas. Yeah, I went to college in Philly. But so Atlantic City was just under an hour away. And we used to do the same like underage drive down there and try to... We would go to the Sands Casino because they had $1 and $5 blackjack tables and we could actually survive for a couple hours before we lost the 50 bucks that we brought with us. But you said you were playing poker at that age. I mean, I'm assuming it was pretty low

stakes to start, but did you ever get to the point where you felt like you could be a professional poker player or was it sort of a casual thing that you did for entertainment? Oh, well, let me tell you something. So, yeah, we would play a one-two no-limit game at Hooters. But when we weren't at the casino playing, we were playing online because online poker was huge. So my buddy Austin, I mean, he'd be playing online. We'd have a table set up in our family room of our laptops, and we would just be playing online poker. I would say for a good solid year, we were playing just about every day.

My buddy John would lock himself up in his room and try to qualify for, you know, world poker tour events and, you know, never made it, came close. But, you know, we spent a lot of time playing online poker. Would you say that you were a good poker player or did you spend a year losing money? You know, I would say I was decent. You know, I probably thought I was better than I really was, but... Everyone does. Yeah, exactly.

So, no, it was fun. I mean, obviously, like Hold'em 2 was just getting really big because they started really televising it on the World Series of Poker and stuff. So, I mean, we loved it. I mean, those guys like Scotty Nguyen and all those guys were... And Sammy Farha. All those guys were just like... Those were like celebrities to us. Because... Absolutely. So we really love playing poker. I met Scotty, uh, in Vegas in October at world crypto com. When I went out there to, uh, give a speech, uh, there was a big celebrity poker tournament and he was sort of the, the pro. Of

course I left when there were four people left, but of course he was still sitting there at the final table. I think people can't appreciate that. It was, it's almost inevitable even in a game that's quote unquote gambling or a game of chance, that the cream rises to the top and those guys are just going to beat everyone. It's impressive, man. It's really impressive. Like Daniel Gran, who I feel like always would sit at the final table somehow. The guy was just a beast. Yeah, they always find their way there. It's interesting because I find that a lot of either amateur or professional poker players find their way into trading for sure. And particularly crypto trading. Do you

see, I mean, we'll get into obviously your crypto story and stuff. And so people know that there's a reason that you're here beyond just being the guy from The Bachelor. Obviously you exist in this space. But do you see parallels between playing poker and trading? Yeah. I mean, it's gambling. But at the same time, if you're managing your risk, and it's all about risk management. It's about still leaving yourself an opportunity instead of pushing all the chips in the middle of the pot all the time. And that's how it is with trading too. I was probably more disciplined playing cards than I was than I am with trading. So, but yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities. And it's the rush,

it's the adrenaline, it's about being right. And it's about playing something perfectly and then learning from your mistakes. Right. But the funny thing is that all of those, I think, instincts, like you said, everybody gets the rush. It's inevitable. And you probably become really good when you eliminate those things. The day that you sort of become more stone cold and a bit more of a robot is when you kind of maybe see the light and the losses hurt a little less and the wins are a little less satisfying as well, I would imagine, but you definitely touched there on risk management. I think that's a huge, I mean, you know, that's sort of everything I preach when it comes to trading and you talk

about pushing your chips in and, you know, you would never go all in with your entire bankroll, even if you're going all in with what you have on the table, you know, and I think people don't understand that necessarily when they're trading and they really do go all in to these things and get somewhat destroyed. So I know that you are an alt trader and that you trade altcoins. How do you manage your portfolio when you're doing that to decide on what size positions to take and what to go into? Honestly, I'm super low risk currently. Yeah, I would say I haven't really been trading that much. A lot of my portfolio in crypto is sitting in Bitcoin and mostly majors. And then a small portion of that would just be kind of, you know, trading here and there.

But when it was – it's different now. I mean, during the bull run in 2017, you were basically just flipping altcoins and just making a killing. And you couldn't lose. You literally couldn't lose. I remember I was doing market buys on, I mean, stuff I'd never even heard of in my life like um you know like the bread wallet um and i remember hitting the ball and i put like five grand in it and i felt like i made it go up you know with my buy order and you know and i'm like holy i'm like holy shit like now it's 15 000 i've been sitting here for an hour. And it was, I don't think we'll ever see something like that again with, you know, with with altcoins and stuff, because that was,

honestly, the three months or four or five months or whatever it was. I mean, I wasn't leaving the house, I would go to the gym. And then I look at my phone and be like, holy shit, like, I gotta go, I gotta go check on this, because this is insane. So like, it was like this money-making opportunity that almost seemed unreal. And I was pretty much obsessed with it. And now it's just like, I'm way more careful with it. Because I definitely left a lot of money on the table in 2017. But I think a lot of... Everyone did. Yeah. Yeah. I think that everyone did. The concept of the paper millionaire was never more somewhat clear than the end of the 2017, early 2018 bull run. I mean, people were rich, but I believe that almost nobody cashed out. I have no idea what the actual truth is. But from judging sort of sentiment going through, I think that everyone expected that party somewhat to never end. I mean, I had the same experience as you. It just felt like you had to stay up all night

just to capitalize on all the opportunity. And it was crazy because I'd never been that way with trading at all. I've traded in legacy markets. So you trade stocks, you're not really waking up at 1 o'clock in the morning to see what's happening. And so I've definitely gotten over that in the last few years, but it really was a special moment in time. Do you think that some coins will have that kind of run again? Or do you think that in general, it's just not the nature of the market now?

I don't know. I feel like... I don't feel like the same volume is there. I don't think the retailer investor is there, obviously, as much as it was back during the bull run. So it's like, who are you dumping your coins on? So the liquidity is just not there. And Binance, it's a little weird now to trade on, especially in the States. That's the mirror. Yeah. So I was doing most of my trading on Binance.

And, um, once that whole thing went down, I, I pretty much got out of alts completely. Uh, so I was just sitting in Bitcoin and, um,

um, yeah, I, I honestly, I don't trade a lot of crypto, uh, anymore. Uh,

but I, you know, I, I dive into it here and there, but, uh, I don't, I don't honestly,

I hope like there's one more of those because obviously, 2017 was a learning experience for me and I'm sure a lot of people. And now you'd be ready. Yeah, exactly. Dude, I wouldn't be looking for the 500%, 600% gains. I would be cutting out way before that, just taking profits and sitting in cash and just putting in Bitcoin. And I believe in Bitcoin. So and seeing where that goes. But now, it's like, do you get that other opportunity? Hopefully, we do.

Yeah. So you have an amazing story of how you got into crypto. Could you tell everybody exactly how you got interested in Bitcoin and how that happened? Yeah. So 2016, I was living in LA. And I had the whole gambling thing inside of me. So I'd been on sports and I was betting on an offshore account sports book. And I put like, I think it was like an $80 parlay on a 16 NBA night slate and was lucky enough to hit it.

And granted, whenever I would put money into my account, I probably would never cash it out because I mostly would lose something, lose most of it all the time. But anyway, this was a pretty solid hit. It was for a few thousand bucks. And the only way to cash out was through Bitcoin. And at that time, all I knew about Bitcoin was black market stuff, how it's used to buy drugs and Silk Road and all that stuff. And I'm like, so I'm like, I got to research this. How do I get the Bitcoin from this offshore account from Gowling Knows Where into a wallet and then cash it out to my PayPal or what have you.

So researched it, got super interested in it. At the time, I think the wallet that I downloaded was Bitpanda. And so I got I finally got the Bitcoin into my into my wallet. And, you know, after doing a lot of research, you know, I got really interested in Bitcoin itself and, you know, kind of learning a lot about the price action over the previous years. And then I started to learn about blockchain and got interested into that. So I decided to let it sit there for a while. I think in 2016, it was probably around between $400 and $600 Bitcoin was trading at. Oh, man. What a gift.

I know. And you know what? Honestly, if I left it all... I had more in there. And if I just left it, I'm sure a lot of people say that too. But... And everyone does. Yeah. Yeah. I left about half of it in 2017. A lot of that money, obviously, had more value. And I started diving into alts from that Bitcoin. And I crushed... I mean, honestly, my first alt that I bought was XRP. So I'm sure there's a lot... Not because I'm part of the whole XRP gang by any means, but there was a lot of talk about it. My buddy's like, put some money to this.

It's amazing that everybody needs to preface their XRP buy. We were all there. I'm not one of those soldiers by any means. I'm part of the community member. Yeah. But I think I got it around, I don't know, 13, 12 cents. And watched it roll up to like $3.60. But yeah, dude, I mean, I was just throwing that money that I made from, you know, that's from being lucky, honestly.

And like, dude, ICX and XRP and all these things, like they'll always have a place in my heart. Mine too, for better or for worse. Yeah, dude. I mean, ICX ran up, I mean, we bought it probably like under a dollar and it ran up to, I don't know, $12 or something. It was insane. Yeah. I mean, that's really a pretty crazy story. Cause when you think about it,

you made a bet you expected to lose for like $80, which turned into $5,000. And then because it was Bitcoin, you put it away for $5,000 and it went up for 40X or whatever. It's just under 40 times. So it all started with one kind of YOLO parlay bet. Yep. There was a less than 1% chance of any of that happening. So I was grateful for that to happen. And not only because of the monetary aspects, but just being able to learn about something new and actually being interested in it. From there, I never stopped being involved with different crypto projects and blockchain and hitting conferences here and there, just learning more. Even now in 2020, it's still in its infancy and a lot more people know about it. So I like to be educated

on it and talk about it. And even some of my friends that were part of that bull run with me who watched all that money disappear, essentially. They're kind of bitter about it. Oh, and more. And more, of course. But I'm still... I'm a believer outside of the monetary aspect. And so I'm still holding strong here and grateful for, you know, just getting involved in it. It's really interesting, because I always kind of joke that the people who got the richest in Bitcoin, well, you know, people hate early adopters hate when you say they were lucky, because that's not necessarily fair, they were willing to put their money. But there's so many

stories like yours, where it really was luck and the ability to just not micromanage it and allow it to grow by either forgetting about it or just not being that concerned about it. And I really think that that's how a ton of people made a ton of money. I knew a guy who was using Bitcoin for the purposes that you laid out before to some degree, buying drugs on Silk Road. And he had 10 wallets that all had Bitcoin dust in them to him from 2013, 14. We're talking about when Bitcoin was like, he had $20 worth here and $100 worth there, but you know, which could be a couple of Bitcoin and he forgot about it.

And when he went back into all of his wallets in 2017, he cashed out for a few hundred thousand dollars. Good for him to still have access to those wallets. Yeah, seriously. But I mean, it's incredible. That's a better performance than anybody who's like blood, sweat and tears in the industry, working their ass off trading and trying to understand the tech. And you know,

it's, it's incredible that people were able to kind of have that story like you did. It's just amazing to me. So let's talk a bit more about what you're doing now. I know that you went to school, I believe, for hospitality. Is that correct? And you talked about being a concierge and working in the clubs and everything. Yeah. So early on, I was always interested in the restaurant space and food space.

I actually worked for Oprah Winfrey's Personal Chef when I was in high school. So I was totally interested in culinary and the hospitality stuff. And UNLV is usually one or two in the nation for top hospitality schools. So from there, it was in the nightclub industry, hotels, etc. And I actually, my fourth year in Vegas, I was ready to go, man. I was so burnt out. And one of my clients, I was working at a club called the Rock Nightclub at the New York, New York at the time. And one of my clients was one of the team doctors for the New York Yankees and the New York Islanders.

And I was talking to him like, dude, I'm like, I got to get out of here. Like, I don't know if I'm going to survive one more year. He's like, oh, why don't you come work for one of the teams? And I'm like, all right. Just thinking like, this is not going to happen. Of course. Yeah. So I flew out and I interviewed with the actual owner. I mean, this is me. I was 22 or whatever the hell I was. I met with the owner and the owner's box at the Islanders Arena during a hockey game. And they brought me on to be a sales executive. So I was selling the in-ice logos and the advertising on the boards. I was selling seats, tickets, and all that stuff. So I moved out to New York.

And it's funny how this all comes together like comes together. Because I, you know, what, the biggest thing about going to Vegas for me was the whole networking aspect and the people that I met, you know, because you're getting you're getting new people daily, weekly, I mean, just new people coming in from all over the world. And it's kind of how you take advantage of that. And just from the people I met, you know, that doctor, you know, from there, I got the job with New York. And in New York, I got tied in with... Dude, I was the ultimate hustler. If I wasn't making the most money on the sales team, then I was failing, even if I was the youngest one there. I came across my current business partner, Jeff Greenberg. So he's a wholesaler at a StubHub. So he buys...

He's like a broker. Buys a bunch of tickets. And he's been since day at a StubHub. So he buys... He's like a broker. Buys a bunch of tickets. And he's been since day one on StubHub. And I sold him... I sold him like $2-3 million worth of Islander tickets. Oh, wow. And at that time, I was making like 15-20% commission because the Islanders were just the worst team in the...

Anywhere. And so it was a good amount of money, but from then, you know, Jeff, you know, he was in the restaurant space. He was investing in places called a good stuff eatery, which is a hamburger joints out on the East coast. And I told him like, listen, like my dream's always been to open up my own restaurants. You know, I have this kind of experience, went to school for it. And at the time, he was the money man. And he's like, let's think about it. And from there, I got asked to go on the show the first

time in 2012. Did you audition yourself? Or did somebody put you up for it or you met somebody? How does that happen? So this girl I grew up with, one of my best friends growing up, she nominated me to be The Bachelor. And I was living in New York at the time. I was getting these emails from casting and I was like, what is this? I never even watched the show before. And then they had a casting call right where I was living. I went over there they pretty much casted me on the spot I'm like yeah why you know 25 why wouldn't I do this you know

I went on the show and honestly it all ties together you know from the show obviously you get all this exposure you know Jeff my business partner at the restaurant he's like all right I'm going to put up you know half of the money like the marketing is there because people want to come see you let's open Jeff, my business partner at the restaurant, he's like, Alright, I'm going to put up half of the money. The marketing is there because people want to come see you.

Let's open up this restaurant. We agreed on Arlington, Virginia. Dude, when we opened that place, there was a line. I mean, I can't even explain. We were slam-packed every day. And I'm so grateful, obviously, for him taking the chance. And then for the show for giving me that. Right. I'm sure he's equally as grateful to you for being the face of the business and being able to draw the people.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a great partnership. Great deal. I mean, that year had to be probably one of the funnest years of my life and a successful year as well. So I definitely understand the appeal of the show. Very strong appeal if you are The Bachelor, like I said, and you're dating 25-30 women. I think that's pretty much a dream. What's it like to be on the other side of that and be one of 25 or 30 people that's tried to date the same girl? Yeah. When you're there, you don't actually think about it that way. You're competing for the same person because you're spending most you don't actually think about it that way. You're competing for the same person because you're spending most of the time with the guys actually. But at the same time,

you're traveling the world. And at that time, I'd never been to Europe. We traveled the whole Eastern Bloc of Europe. We were in Bermuda. And for me, it was the experience. And to top it off, I actually was interested in the girl. So it was like a perfect storm for me. It is weird. It's a competition. At the end of the day, it's like if there was 25 guys left in the world, then there's just one girl. And you're competing for this girl, it seems like.

That's pretty much what it is. You're cut off from everything. There's no phone. There's no TV. I mean, you are dialed in on this girl and um you know it's weird at first but honestly you the guys become friends and again i looked at it as another networking opportunity and uh yeah it's just you know from a social media side too obviously you know instagram wasn't really a thing yet but from twitter i mean i didn't even have a twitter i I turned on my Twitter after I, after the, I was done filming and I was just,

it's like almost dollar signs, you know, when you're getting all these Twitter followers and you just have this new platform to, to reach people that, you know, you wouldn't even be connected with otherwise. So the show is, man, I'm telling you the first show was amazing because you have no expectations. I had, I never watched the, the first show was amazing because you have no expectations. I never watched the show before. My mom watched it. And I thought I was going to be there for one night. And I ended up staying pretty much till the end.

So it was good, man. When you go into things with low expectations, and you get the most out of it, it's pretty satisfying. So my wife is a huge fan of the show, like every other person's wife. I have to know because I've watched it a few times. It seems like there's almost a language to the show, like certain things that everybody says, like, she's someone that I can see or he's someone or that phrase. Do they sort of feed you guys lines to some degree when you do your interviews?

Or does everybody just sort of pick up the same vernacular and way of doing it because it's the way it's done? Man, these producers, I'm telling you, the reason why the show has been on as long as it has been is because these producers are the best in the business. And I believe it. If they weren't there teeing me up with lines, nobody would watch the show. I'm not funny. Maybe once in a while, I'll have something funny to say. Yeah, you're pretty funny. I'm not that funny.

But these guys, I'm telling you, they tee you up and make you seem like either an asshole or a funny person or a nice guy. And they have it all planned. I'm telling you, 75% of the storyline is already planned ahead of time. Of course. And you know, without them, I mean, there's obviously no show, but yeah, the lines that you hear like, you know, a journey or, you know, stuff like that, then they're, they're teeing you up. But over time, I'm sure, you know, these contestants, they watch the show. So it's kind of almost embedded in their heads already.

Yeah. You're there for the right reasons, man. Right, right, right. Exactly. I was definitely there for the right reasons because I didn't know the other reasons. So I think I was there for the right reasons the first time around. It's interesting because you touched on it. You know, you turned on your Twitter and you started to be able to monetize that. And those are the other reasons. So for you, it was sort of a byproduct, but not a plan. And you touched on be able to monetize that. And those are the other reasons. So for you, it was sort of a byproduct, but not a plan. Um, and you touched on being able to monetize it, obviously with the sports bar and the restaurant, were there other ways that sort of, you know, your fame paid off monetarily after the show beyond besides going back on the show

five more times? Yeah, no. So it's so different. Honestly, I, I, there was, there was a golden era. I consider like when I first started doing the show and there's the modern era, which is now before it was so much harder to monetize your social media following on Twitter. Before we were making money outside of whatever we were doing on appearances, events and, and stuff like that. And then, you know, you know, for, it's just how you use it. You know. I made an actual business out of it with the restaurant. Otherwise, it's just a flash in the pan and it goes away overnight because you become

irrelevant. Nowadays, I mean, some of these girls are clearing a million dollars a year and just doing Instagram advertising and brand partnerships. I got a small taste of it this first time around. I mean, I didn't make much. I would say... I mean, it is... Granted, it is a lot of money. I would say probably clear like 50 grand over the last... Over the 3 months after the show was airing. I'm not... I don't like to promote products that I don't actually use. So I did... I'm the same way. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to promote like, I don't know, like a shoe or something that's just BS.

Like it's going to be something that I actually use. So it was, but these girls, man, I'm telling you, they're slinging stuff that you never even heard of. And they're getting paid, you know, 15 grand for three Instagram slides. It's absolutely insane. Then obviously like the top celebrities like Kendall Jenner and them, they're making a million dollars in Instagram slides. It's absolutely insane. And obviously, the top celebrities like Kendall Jenner and them, they're making a million dollars in Instagram posts. Right. And they're not even doing it. It's their people.

Exactly. They're not doing anything. They're just the face. And that's why the show to me is so not authentic anymore compared to how it used to be because you have people coming on the show primarily because they see the opportunity of monetizing their Instagrams. And it sucks, man. I'm telling you, it's completely different from 2012 from when I was first on the show to this last summer. It was just like a bunch of young kids running around finding ways on how to get more Instagram followers. And I get it. A lot of these people don't have careers or they're kind of stuck in a place where they need something to keep them afloat. And listen, I'm all for making the most of opportunities. But it's just so different. I mean, I was shocked by, you know, I took three years off from the show.

So when I went back this summer, it was a completely different aspect. That's interesting because we made the joke. Are you there for the right reasons? But it seems that now it would be very rare that somebody, I guess, somewhat would be. I would say zero. I would say 1% are there actually for the right reason. They're all just there to be famous. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. are there actually for the right reason. They're all just there to be famous. 100%.

100%. And I would say it only works out really for 5% to 10% of the people that are on the previous show. And again, you can have 300,000 Instagram followers, but you still become irrelevant eventually. And your engagement goes down. So it's a flash in the pan again. That's why if you're not making some kind of other business

or some kind of maybe selling your own product or some kind of e-commerce business based off of your free marketing, you're reaching thousands of people on your Instagram channel. If you're not setting that up in three months, you're not making any more money on Instagram. You're just not because you're irrelevant. RoundlyX.com is one of my favorite companies in the entire crypto space. What they do is they take all your small

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you see that with almost every single person who gets any level of fame in any sort of industry like this. I mean, how many people who have been on The Voice or American Idol does anyone remember now? And that's the biggest platform in the world, basically, to be able to sing. So I think that's probably even amplified and a bit more dramatic for people who don't get to those sort of same heights. So you very quickly touched on the fact that you worked for Oprah's private chef. I have to go back to that. My wife, again, she's the biggest Oprah fan. I think she says she learned every important life lesson she ever needed from watching Oprah Winfrey. So what was it like to have contact with her when you were

that young? How old were you? How did that happen? So this is actually a great story. I was 15 years old. And my girlfriend in high school, her uncle was running a catering business, a temp service catering business. And I was like, dude, in the summer, I'll make some extra money. And he set me up at this private event. It was for the CEO of Fannie Mae at the time oddly enough his name was Michael Jordan but not the actual Michael Jordan in Chicago of all of all things in Chicago you know me and my buddy Keith we got placed at that job we're like holy shit is this Michael Jordan because you know obviously big Michael Jordan guys coming from Chicago yeah of course we show up it's not Michael Jordan guys coming from Chicago. Yeah, of course. We show up. It's not Michael Jordan.

But granted, we're in this $10 million home in the north side of Chicago. And we basically got paired up with Ron Ballaro, who was Oprah's chef at the time. And from there, he asked us if we would just want to work for him. And we're like, yeah. We were making $10 an hour, I think, at the temp service. He was paying us. Killing service. He was paying us. Killing it. Killing it.

Just crushing it. And then he's like, I'll pay you this much a night, plus you get tipped. And we're like, absolutely. So Keith and I, we were not qualified for doing these private events by any means. But Ron took us under his wing. So we were doing these private events. We worked on the sets at the Oprah Winfrey show a couple of times and just being around the whole, I mean, the atmosphere is insane.

Obviously Oprah is like the most influential woman of our time. So just being around that and, you know, it was an experience to be 15, 16 years old. I don't think you can beat it to be honest with you. And I just because of that and being around that and seeing how much people appreciate, you know, the food, the service, the hospitality really kind of, you know, really got my interest in, in the space at all. I like, you know, I like to see people enjoying their time or enjoying, you know,

food or drink or what have you. And you know, being around, you know around someone of her celebrity and seeing how she appreciated it, that meant a lot to me, for sure. I mean, is she as kind and generous and polite and amazing as she seems on TV? Absolutely. Very welcoming. She didn't seem different than anybody else that you know, that was there. So, which was amazing for us again, you know, growing up, you know, when we were younger, I mean, Oprah, you know, my, my mom and, you know, everyone was just like all about it.

And you never would think you would have the opportunity to be like standing in the same room as her. So. Especially at that age. Exactly. Exactly. It kind of like, it really, it makes you grow up real quick too, you know, at that age. Cause you know, one night you're, you know, you're playing football on Friday night and going out, um, you know, drinking with the boys. And then, then you're like in this professional setting with this top A-list celebrity working. Uh, so it was like, you were getting

both sides of the spectrum, um, at a young age. And, uh, age. And I think that was huge for me. Even my buddy Keith, he's still in the hospitality space. He's running some restaurants out in Chicago. So I think early on, having those experiences really made us fall in love with the hospitality industry. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier when you were talking about the Islanders that you're just a hustler and you always had to be the best and always had to be making the most as a salesman and competing. Where do you think that you got that hustle? I mean, you ended up at Oprah's house when you were 15. So clearly, you were a hustler of some sort. You know what? I think my parents are so traditional. My mom worked for the same company for 30 years. She worked for General Motors from when she was 19. She retired when she was 49. I mean,

it's so much different. And I didn't want that. She was happy and comfortable and all that stuff. But I wanted to try different things. I wanted to find different ways to make money. And I hate saying I was an opportunist. I think people look down on that. But man, I was. When I saw an opportunity, when I saw other people making money doing certain things, I wanted to try to do that as well. And even with the Islanders, when I was actually selling tickets to my now business partner, who was a huge ticket broker, I'm like, dude, I'm like, how can I make money selling tickets to my own and making profit? And he taught me a little bit. I still go get deals for tickets.

And even now that I'm not associated with the Islanders, I'll find deals and we'll sell tickets. I mean, anywhere to make some money. I just get a rush out of the whole sales aspect of any kind of business and seeing if there's an opportunity to make money elsewhere besides what my actual profession is. So to some degree, it was... You saw how the 1950s American dream mentality, get a job, stay there for 50 years, white picket fence was just changing. It was not really for you. So you went... Even though that's obviously a great lesson from your parents, you chose to go the opposite way. I did. I went the complete opposite way. Cause right now, I mean, I would say my, you know, my day to day is it's so sporadic and nomadic and you know, I'm 33.

Yeah. I mean, you know, my parents, they had, they were married when they were 22. They had all three of us kids by the time they were 29. And it was a very traditional way of doing things. And now I'm just the complete opposite, man. I'm really enjoying this not knowing where I actually live and just being involved in different things. I started to get involved in real estate. I know you actually talked about that a little bit on Twitter recently. I've been going down and got some deals down in Mexico, out of all places. And it's been great, man.

I'm just learning about different industries. And I think it allows me the flexibility of just having my own thing and having different avenues of revenue everywhere. I just get to experience a lot of things. And for me, that's a lot more than the monetary aspect of things. It's just to be able to have those experiences. Yeah. That was the best part of DJing, obviously, was what town will I wake up in next?

What adventure will I have? Who will I meet? Okay. So you have the sports bar, you're doing real estate in Mexico. You're occasionally selling tickets for the Islanders. What else does your day to day look like? What other projects? opportunity time. My girlfriend at the time, she worked for a huge hedge fund out of Beverly Hills. And her boss had a yacht docked out in Dubrovnik, Croatia. And he's like, I need a website refresh. He had a website from when the internet just started. And I was doing some consulting work for my buddy. We were raising some capital for a media company out in Irvine.

And so I met my other partner now for my buddy, my company called KCM Creates, who is a web developer. And then my buddy, Mike, who's a web designer. I'm like, listen, we'll do this. We'll do it for dirt cheap. We'll do this website. We'll do it $2,500. Let's do it as a hobby. So we did it.'ll do this website. We'll do it 2,500 bucks. Like let's do it like as a hobby. So we did it,

built this beautiful website, had a great time, you know, doing it. We sort of like shit, like maybe we could just throw up a website of our own and see if there's any more business that comes in. KCM create KCM is our initials of,

you know, how simple is that? Um, and, uh, so we actually, so this all, it's crazy how this all circles back. And I don't, you know, how simple is that? And so we actually... So this all... It's crazy how this all circles back.

And I don't get to talk about all these things often. But so our... You can talk as much as you want. Go for it. So it's like it all comes full circle again. So Las Vegas is where I went to school. I worked in the nightclub industry. And our biggest client right now is from Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay, Click Hospitality.

So Light Nightclub inside of Mandalay Bay and Daylight, which is their day club. The owner and founder of Click Hospitality was my boss at the Bank Nightclub at the Bellagio when I was in college. I just reached out on a limb like, listen, we're doing websites, we're doing some search engine marketing, some SEO, some paid social media. And he threw 16 different bars, lounges, nightclubs, hotels. He's like, can you do these? And we're like, dude, honestly, at the time, there was zero chance we could do these and we're like dude honestly at the time there was zero chance we could do that there was like three of us doing this and away we found a way and it

literally launched our business and uh and it's in hospitality so we've been working with um with those uh properties for you know three years uh we have clients uh all across the country, from hospitality to beauty to advertising companies all across. And it's something that I was never really educated on. And I kind of learned as I went. And I'm kind of just kind of the quarterback of all this stuff. But man, it was, again, an opportunity that we saw. And we took it and we ran with it. And it's been working. It's my primary income right now.

And it's fun, man. I get to go all over the country and actually all over North America and, and, uh, work with like different types of businesses and, and help them out. Do you guys accept Bitcoin? We do. We do. And it's, you know what, you know, it's funny, Scott is in 2017, you know, when all these public companies were like putting blockchain, you know, uh, on their, on their, uh, you know, you know, we're like, Oh shit, we're throwing blockchain on our website because it was the number one search,

you know, crypto Bitcoin blockchain. Everyone was searching that on the internet. So we just threw it on our website. We had no blockchain experience, but like if someone wanted some help with some blockchain, I had some guys, you know, from guys from Russia that I knew that were dialed in on blockchain. So yeah, it was... Again, we were just tying everything at the time and going with the trend and taking advantage of it, for sure. I mean, what a time to be alive when publicly traded companies could change their name to

blockchain and a stock traded on the New york stock exchange would go up like you know 100 and i remember you know alts would altcoins would like rebrand their logo and they would pump five times on a on a rebrand and it's so irrational so irrational like oh the main net is on september 28th like it's to go up 300%. It was so ridiculous. I remember the big thing was, oh, something's going to be launched on Binance. This is it. And so it was towards the tail end of the bull run. And so I was highly in ICX and Aon.

And Wanchain was like the next one, right? Everyone wants to get into one. And, uh, and they kept pushing back the release because it started, I mean, the bear market just hit like crazy. And I just remember like sitting there,

I swear for like five days, we were sitting in front of our computers waiting for this thing to get launched onto Binance. And by the time it did get launched, I mean, I think Bitcoin was probably shot down to $5,000. Yeah. I remember it. Our hopes and dreams were just destroyed.

So going back to being a hustler, do you remember what your first hustles were when you were a little kid? Were you a lemonade stand guy? Were you selling candy at school? What do you remember being your first forays into being your own businessman and hustling? Baseball cards. Same. Yeah. 100%. I was flipping baseball cards with like all my friends in the neighborhood at school.

Now, you know, baseball cards, I feel like are, you know, they're worthless. Most of them, but... They're really worthless if they're from the 80s. Exactly. Exactly. most of them but they're really worthless if they're from the 80s exactly exactly i feel like they're trying you know who uh does a good job with uh baseball cards is gary vaynerchuk um he's always trying to rip uh cards on online and stuff um but dude we we would be flipping baseball cards and uh even like um what just for the fun of it like like, oh, like, I'll trade you two

Bo Jacksons for, you know, one Ryan Sandberg, you know? That's that Chicago hustle. Yeah, exactly. Ryan Sandberg, everybody needs the cubs. Exactly. But I think, you know, just like seeing how you can get

a little extra value out of, you know, trading something for another thing. I think that's kind of where it all kind of started for me. And honestly, being in sports too, like I was super competitive. I think I got a lot of, you know, of my business mentality and trying to figure things out on my own, just from being, you know, in sports and not, you know, obviously I was in team sports, but you know, there's no, no was in team sports, but there's no me in team.

But I felt like I wanted to do a lot of things on my own. And I was super competitive. And I think that led me into where I'm at today. It's actually funny. My dad and I were huge into baseball cards. It was the thing that we did together. It's our main activity. I was growing up in Florida.

So we'd go to spring training everywhere and get everybody's autograph. And it was just sort of our father-son bonding thing. So that was my first investment. So I would save up all my money and I would go buy a box of wax packs or something that I was going to save for 100 years and I was going to retire on them. So my parents were downsizing their house a few years ago. And I went back. I mean, I have some valuable cards, mostly stuff that he had collected. But and so I was like, what am I gonna do with all these wax packs, they got to be worth something. So I took them to the local baseball card store, I knew that I was in for bad news. But he was like, I won't even take these to throw them in the dumpster behind, you know, and so maybe I'd spent

like 30 bucks on one of these boxes and they were quite literally worth nothing. So all of that stuff, besides I kept the individual cards that were worthwhile or full sets that I had or anything that was somewhat sentimental. And there's some stuff with value, but I went to the local library donation center for a write-off of a couple hundred bucks. I probably spent thousands and thousands of all the money I earned in the 80s on baseball cards. And I went and donated it to get a few hundred dollar write-off so that kids, you know,

so that less privileged kids could open some baseball cards from 1987 tops. And that was, you know, it's like you said, it's kind of a real lesson in value and investing. And that was a time when we thought, you said, it's kind of a real lesson in value and investing. And that was a time when we thought I was buying baseball cards for less, thinking I'd be able to sell them for more. You know what? That's cool, though. I mean, even though it's an L at the end of the day, but just that mentality at a young age is still cool because you're buying something because you think it's going to be more valuable. And for me, it was that too.

I love baseball though. And I was hoping to get a Ken Griffey Jr. in this pack or whoever it may be. But I was like, I'm going to hold on to these because I think when I'm my parents' age, they're going to be more valuable. And obviously... And all of our parents talked about how their parents threw their baseball cards away. It's like an urban myth. All the time.

They're probably throwing a bunch of Babe Ruths in the garbage. Yeah. So that stuck with me and I could never throw them away ever. So obviously, we talked about the positive sides, able to monetize the fame that comes with being on TV. But we didn't really talk about the downside of being a public figure. I mean, I know that you went through a time where you were kind of one of the villains on the show, perhaps.

Yep. How did that affect you? What is it like for people to have a negative perception of you because of what they see on TV? Yeah, it sucks. From The Bachelorette to Bachelor Pad, on The Bachelorette, I was the young, kind of charming sweet innocent guy and then i went to bachelor pad and i just wrecked that show um you know i was again it was a competition show super competitive um and they like to do that they like to turn the nice guy into the bad guy because that guy has the biggest you know following or people are the most

interested in that at the end of the day, if I looked back and was just watching as everything was actually happening, I didn't do anything wrong. But they made it seem like I was this horrible person. And I'm sure I probably put myself in positions that I probably shouldn't have been in. But whatever, man. I signed up for it. But yeah. So you get that overnight fame from being on that show, Twitter and all this media, newspapers. For me, the hardest part was getting the negativity,

the trolls on the internets, because it was new, right? And I didn't know how to really handle it. But for me, the hardest part was my parents reading that stuff or my sisters reading that stuff. I always wondered about that. Because I mean, your parents are watching no matter who you are on that show. Yeah. And you know what? At the end of the day, obviously, my friends and family know who i am for real but you know when you see you know your old man reading you know an article on yahoo about how i'm an asshole and how i'm a player and this and that and you know reading negative you know especially in the comments on those

articles uh you know people are ruthless uh so it's like someone you know like my dad who was obviously like my hero and someone that would do anything in the world for me, reading these things and being disappointed, that was the toughest part for me. And again, too, my parents were... Actually, my whole family was on the show, on The Bachelorette. They were on my hometown. Right. at they were on my hometown right so right you know you know you get a small taste of it too like oh i can't believe chris's mom would say that and you know articles and you just don't know how to handle it you don't know how to handle it initially um and it it hurts i mean it was it was a dark time there for for a minute because you don't you don't know how to handle it and there's no one there helping you know how to handle it.

So, you know, it sucks. But man, if you can, if you can get through that and learn from it, and you, I was young too, man, I was 25. So it was, I was taking it hard and I was doing things to try to fix that. That's we're making it only worse. So again, it's, it's a, it's a hole that's not many people ever have to dig themselves out of. And I didn't know what to do. And so again, as I grew and kind of learned from it,

you just kind of take it, man, you got to see how to take the punches and learn from it. And at the end of the day, after all of this, it's the only people that honestly matters is the people that after, you know, your worst day will still be, you know, at your side. And, you know, my family, my friends and all this other BS, man, all these, a lot of these people I don't even keep in touch with, you know,

from the show, like there's, there's not, there's. A lot of these people I don't even keep in touch with from the show. There's not a lot of authenticity. There's not a lot of... A lot of these people come in and out of your life. So you got to just take it with a grain of salt. That's interesting. I'd never... I mean, I guess I've thought about the strain with the parents and the disappointment. And that's somewhat inevitable.

On the flip side, if you were... You're obviously a man bringing a woman home to your family. So it's different. But I wonder if on The Bachelor, this guy goes to all these women's houses and basically asks the father for their daughter's hand in marriage and then doesn't propose to her. What's it like? I've got to imagine for them to have like three dads out there that basically want to kill you.

It's tough just to have one. But yeah, that's a tough situation. It's super awkward too, but that's part of the show. So when these families are sending, especially now these contestants are so young, when they're sending these kids off to the show, they got to expect

to potentially be in that opportunity. And for the actual Bachelor, it's super awkward because here's the thing, you know, at home, he knows, he already knows, man.

He's just part of the show. He knows. I knew. So I made it to hometowns and I knew like there was a long shot of a chance, you know, that I was going to make it past that. Cause I just,

I just had that feeling. I mean, you're there, you're living it. It's not a TV show. Exactly. So you know what sucks too, man, is getting dumped after hometown dates because then your family thinks it's their fault. So it's like... Oh, God. So bad. But yeah, it's tough, man, on both sides. But it's the show and it's not normal.

But that's what makes it so good. Yeah, I guess. because like you said, because nobody ever finds themselves naturally in those positions. That's what makes it so compelling to watch on TV. Have you had any bad experiences just because you are a public figure? I mean, I can tell you being a public figure in this space with my real face, I was the victim of an attempted hack recently. And I get all kinds of threats and craziness in my dms do you experience some of that

oh yeah big time um and with you i experienced that same hack um but yeah from uh god man from the show there's there's some crazy people out there man man. I was getting like... We got some threats mailed to my parents' house. So these letters, these cryptic letters. Even in person, people aren't really ever... They're not too mean, but you'll get some people here and there. I've had a drink thrown at me. Stuff like that. But honestly...

It's offline for you. You're not just an online personality. You're getting accosted in public. Oh, yeah. Big time. Most of the most of it's positive in public. I would say half, you know, half and half online because people are braver online. Yeah.

But I would say, man, I was I was probably putting a lot more peculiar situations just from being involved in crypto than, you know, being on TV, believe it or not. Can you talk about any of those or is it not worth discussing? No, I mean, a big one too, man. I had the hack, the SIM card hack, oddly enough, on my birthday last summer. And it was horrible. It's the worst. So what sucked too is I don't know how it all kind of went down with you,

but I was out with my buddies at a bar. And I was hooked up to the Wi-Fi at the bar. And I noticed my service went out on my phone. And I'm like, this is weird. And oddly enough, my buddy from one of the shows, he's like, dude, someone, I think your Twitter got hacked. And I'm like, what? What are you talking about?

Dude, I go on my Twitter and someone's tweeting from my account. Super explicit stuff. And then also, they're putting their Bitcoin address, tweeting out to my followers on my account, their Bitcoin address to send them Bitcoin. That's a unique, a unique approach. I'm like, what's happening? And then I'm like, I'm so much shit.

I'm like, all right, let's reset the Twitter password. No, no, no, no. Can't reset the Twitter password.

Cause they were in my email. Yep. Same. They totally got me. And then I'm like, oh shit, this has got to be, obviously it's crypto involved because they're looking for Bitcoin. I couldn get i couldn't really get access into into my wallets but i was

pretty secure um you know with the 2fa and and all that stuff and um so luckily they didn't get any of my money uh luckily um i'm pretty protected about that but that. But they took my identity for a day. And that was scary enough. And yeah, crypto, man, it's a crazy world out there. And there's a lot of smart people that are involved in it and try to take advantage of people. And you got a taste of it, too. And it was pretty scary. Yeah, when they have your identity for a day is one thing, but I think sort of the

shattering your innocence to some degree, the fallout afterwards, because you become, I mean, to some degree, very paranoid, which is good, obviously, in this space, and you want to be cautious. But it was definitely... I was up all night for days changing passwords. And now every time my phone loses a connection for a second, which is probably just my shitty service, you know, I panic and think that maybe I'm being hacked again or something. There's a lot that comes with, you know, putting yourself out there in this space. It's pretty, pretty terrifying when you really dig into it. Absolutely. Yeah.

For both sides, you know, especially from being in crypto and being on the show. I mean, I'm out there like that's you know when you when i sent you a course like exactly exactly when i you know emailed you like if you know what it's like when you know um if people know who i actually am i'm like dude i i feel like people do know who i am just because i almost put my whole life out on social media and on TV. But then today, they really just get a small sliver of who I actually am. But it is scary if you think about it, because our privacy, yours as well, there's not a lot of it. And most people primarily are pretty private. And until you get this platform,

you're out there man you're exposed and it's uh it's um you know it's a slippery slope and obviously there's there's the positives and clearly the negatives but uh that's just i guess you know who we are yeah i saw that there's some uh dancing with the stars mixed with bachelor show coming up what what does that hold yeah you know i'm still pretty um fresh on the details on that but i think it's like um a singing competition with singing competition that's yeah singing competition with some kind of love aspect you know eight you know abc and that production company they're making so much money off these shows they're like we might as well

run it all year round it's like uh so dumb but yeah why not i mean i i saw the a commercial for that and i was i was astounded i couldn't believe it it's like uh what is it the yes network that has just yankee stuff all year round i mean that's pretty much what the bachelor's turning into that's so smart though so now i'm going to ask you probably the stupidest question you've ever been asked in your entire life. Because it's one that my friend asks random strangers at bars and always leads to a hilarious conversation. So here it is. If you had to choose between one of these two, would it be a full upper body tattoo of a turtleneck?

Or to only be able to eat shawarma for every meal until you die? Oh, man, I'll get that tattoo in a heartbeat. So you would be wearing a permanent turtleneck the rest of your life every time you wear a T-shirt or a deep V. It looks like you got a turtleneck underneath. What color is the turtleneck and how high is the turtleneck? I mean, I guess that's your choice. High enough that it would be noticeable under anything that wasn't a turtleneck. I just couldn't imagine eating the same thing for the rest of my life, you know?

Even if I didn't say shawarma, even if I said, you know, Peter Luger's steak, you would still go for the tattoo. I just love food too much to take it out of my life, man. I just give me the turtleneck any day. What if you had to choose one food for the rest of your life? What would it be? Oh, I mean, I'm a, I'm a simple steak and potatoes guy. So it's, uh, I couldn't get rid of that. The turtleneck, man, that's, that's tough. I feel like most people would say the turtleneck. Am I wrong? I think, I think so too. But it, I mean, when you really think about the implications of that,

you know, your day on the beach, and you're just in a full turtleneck, and people are wondering if it's real or if it's tattooed, because you can't even tell from afar, you know, like, why is that guy wearing a turtleneck on the beach? And then when they realize you're not, it's even worse. I would say my TV days would be over if I got the turtleneck. That's for sure. I don't know, man. It could launch a whole other career and those free kind of, you know, freaky people shows.

I don't know. That's true too. All right, man. Well, where can people find you? Where can people follow up with you after this? Yeah,

man. Just Twitter and Instagram. Chris J. Bukowski. Pretty active across social media and no, no TV planned in the short term. So maybe something in the next year or so. So yeah, just social media. Awesome, man.

Well, this has been a perfect conversation. Exactly what I was hoping for. I think that maybe you got a chance to tell people, hopefully, who you really are and not who they think you are. So thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely, man. Thanks for having me,

Scott. It was a lot of fun. We'll do it again soon. Sounds good. That's dope. Hey everyone. Thanks for listening. New episodes go live every Tuesday at 7am Eastern standard time.

Links to our Apple and Spotify channels are in the show notes. You can also follow me on Twitter at Scott Melker to continue the conversation. See you next week.