The Wolf Of All Streets - Crypto Bloodbath - What’s Next? | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Crypto Town Hall is a daily X Spaces hosted by Scott Melker, Ran Neuner & Mario Nawfal. Every day we discuss the latest news in crypto and bring the biggest names in the space to share their insight. ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. USE CODE ‘2MONTHSOFF’ WHEN VISITING MY LINK.  👉 https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/    ►► OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $10,000!  👉  https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL  - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets    Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor.  Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Mario, are you gracing us with your events today? Where are you flying now? Where are you traveling to? I'm nowhere. I'm sitting in my car before a doctor's appointment because I didn't want to lose internet. Can you hear me? Is it working? Yeah, it's actually pretty good. Good. Are you okay? Is it a serious appointment? Just a normal doctor's appointment.

Why not share your confidential private personal information? I should actually share my chart. Well, the funny thing is if you post charts on Twitter or if you ever say that you bought or sold something, the community demands your social security number, bank account, proof of transaction, blood type, Rocky Road, by the way. Yeah, you know, so why why not i should probably give my health information as well and maybe you should also come up with better titles from the space you

should say bitcoin is dead yeah that would be better although last dump before all-time high where we had an all-time high like a few days ago it Is that all-time high? Like 74,000? Are we talking about, you know, yeah, maybe. But doesn't that just make sense? It's just one dump. We're going from the all-time high. So isn't any dump or continued dump the last dump before we make another one, rationally? Things are pretty insane. We had on the, so the frothiness, can I give you guys indicators of frothiness? We had, um, on the, so the frothiness, can I give you guys indicators of frothiness? We had, um, uh, first is a scam video.

I'm not sure if you saw the Michael Saylor scam videos going on on YouTube. They've been around for a while. Him and there's Garlinghouse ones and Michael Saylor ones that are AI, AI deep fakes that ask people to send money. We had to, I had to stop running ads for a while on my YouTube channel because they were all scam ads. Holy shit. I didn't know it was that common. And so he sent it to me. It was like a live AI.

So I know there's like live videos versus an actual video. And then they put some links there. But I didn't know there's AI generating videos that are just running live with a whole bunch of... I don't know if these views are real or not. A whole bunch of views. But it seems like legitimate accounts were purchased, rebranded, built out to look legitimate. And then they do this. And it was running for like two hours, maybe still running now, posted about it a while ago. And it's been like a while.

Yeah. That was a common thing actually in the last bull market where it would effectively repurpose content. My first, one of my podcasts with sailor, somebody ran it on one of those YouTube accounts as if it was a live conversation. Somehow that accounted hundreds and hundreds of thousands of followers. And, you know, it was like advertising underneath it, places to send money and crazy that the scams are wild in this space. You know, you've made it when,

when there's an AI version of you trying to scam others. So congratulations, Scott. And the other indicator of just the frothiness is that we obviously do a lot of launches on my show and we had, what, three launches to now two launches. The third one we just couldn't

because two launches were at the same time. But there was like three big ones. Partizia launched today after many years and like, what, half a billion uh fdv there's also a polyhedra launched at three and a half billion fdv if i got that right it's a massive launch and then there's um today wasn't last one your.io did that one as well because you got polyhedra yeah and your.io did that one as well. He's got polyhead drop on your IO all in one day in a bloodbath and they perform pretty well.

That's just today. If you look at the week, there's just project after project pumping. And a third indicator, just meme coins are going crazy. I know I'm short. How many DMs do you get from meme coins when they come on your show? I tweeted something and I tweet things like this sometimes just to as much as for my actual

feelings about the market, but as much to gain sentiment, you know, see how much pushback I get, see how many people say I'm insane. So I tweeted yesterday effectively. And it's something I was talking about throughout the weekend that I had a lot of concerns for a lot of the reasons that you were saying, not that like the cycle top is in or that it's over, but that we could be seeing a temporary top for a while here. First of all, like normally we don't make an all time high before the having,

so that's great, but it shouldn't surprise anyone if we cool down for many months in the normal having cycle, which would be, you know, this 30% retracement, the retracements have been shallower these last two cycles, but some sort of retracement, a boring summer up only in the fall is what we've seen with every having cycle. So maybe this time is different. Maybe the ETF has sort of preempted that, but maybe not. But the other thing is, as you said, like what's happening on Solana, and I talked to Austin Federer on my show this morning, but the amount of meme coins being

launched reached a fever pitch. And not only that, specifically yesterday, we saw Slurf, which had more volume than all of Ethereum, because the tokens that were supposed to be in the presale and airdropped accidentally got burned by the dev. I mean, complete insanity. There was another one where somebody tweeted a sole address saying there's a presale, 20% of the supply will go to people who send money to this address, and in 30 minutes raise $30 million. You're talking about people send $30 million to an anonymous account address on a Twitter post, knowing literally nothing else. Not that we haven't seen this before, right? Because we saw this even months ago during more of a bearish market.

On Ethereum, we saw meme coin craze and people sending a ton of money into protocols. But it's really a good sign that you're kind of at a fever pitch when people are blindly playing this aggressively in the casino. Also, if you look at any chart, technically, everything was massively overbought. There's huge bearish divergences on almost every single chart it was just the most reasonable time for a cool off but when i tweeted that the the exact things that uh i expect to get in response it's a new paradigm bro etf inflow you can go down like a lot of that, which is more of a signal that I think you can just expect things

to work. ETF has been a net outflow today of $130 million, I think, in the first day in 11 days. We don't know how the ETFs will react to a market dump, a massive market correction. Last time wasn't that bad. We saw a massive dump. This time, we'll see tomorrow what the numbers

are. But just a quick question, Scott. You mentioned about that anonymous account. I won't go to the panel, of course, but you mentioned that anonymous Sol account that put out a wallet and asked people to send money there and they get the token distributed. First, did they scam? And number two, when you say anonymous, there's anonymous, but they had clout. There's anonymous ones that built the pseudo-anonymous identity. Yes, but I's still it's still an anon on twitter like nobody knows who this person is an undoxed twitter account with a you know pfb profile was it a scam i don't know i haven't followed up um but it's like i said it's sort of the evolution of this fever pitch that

we've seen specifically on solana but it has nothing i'm not saying it has anything to do with solana that just happens to be the casino that's the most active at the moment. But you saw, remember, we saw airdrops and we talked about airdrops. Is that real liquidity? What does that mean? Then we started to see the meme coins really start to build. Now we're seeing evolution within the way that meme coins are launched and you have these anonymous pre-sales, get your tokens, send to this address, right? So it's just like the fever pitch of that massively increasing. And to your point about the ETF,

interestingly, I interviewed Arthur Hayes last night. It'll be out on Sunday. But he and I talked at length about what was going on in the ETF. And he said, listen, we're going to get big corrections and we're going to see if people who buy these ETFs are diamond-handed like us or if they're paper hands. And he tweeted something to that effect this morning. So I guess we will see. Like you said, we saw outflows, right? People seem to believe that you can only get buying for ETFs,

but if price goes down and someone wants to sell, we will have net outflows on many days. The good thing is that is going in. Maybe Ryan, you can speak to this. But the good thing is, as we get that, we're still going to have these unlocks of new RIAs and new platforms and new people who haven't had access coming online. Question is, is if they'll want to buy if the market's down 25 or 30%, right? So we can talk about that more at length and Ryan, you can go ahead. So I do think that will still put a buying floor underneath, but I think at least maybe people are seeing that we can still get corrections even in this quote unquote new paradigm, which by the way, is literally the defined top of the Wall Street cheat sheet everyone's seen of emotion. It's when you start having euphoria and you say new paradigm.

I had about 50 responses that said that. Go ahead, Ryan. Yeah, no, I think you're right around the fact that we're going to have to see if these Bitcoin ETF investors are longtime holders. And I think they are. I think a lot of these investors are just allocating in their portfolio. And they might even add more as price falls when they rebalance, you don't have the quarterly basis. But on a long-term perspective, what you're saying around there being unlocked still to come and that could drive more demand in ETFs, I totally agree with that. I think we're still months away from a lot of firms starting to allocate. And I think when the price shot up as high as it did and they were missing out on allocating to Bitcoin because they weren't approved to do it on their platform or their team hadn't made that decision yet, when they see price retrace 10%, 15, 20%, that just creates a beautiful entry point for these advisors where they can feel better

about where they're getting into the asset and not putting clients in at all-time highs and kind of feel like they're not buying the top and instead they're finding a good entry point. So definitely a bloodbath out here. No doubt about that. I think we likely will see more net outflow days from the ETFs before we see inflow days here in the near term. But I do think on the long term, we're still sort of getting started and maybe got a little bit over our skis. As is tradition.

This is crypto. Getting out over our skis is literally our our like most uh probably uh it was probably our best skill exactly yeah you know i think it's pretty like what you're talking about with these mean points it's pretty obvious you know here in hindsight that we were we were at that point uh over the past week and so it all kind of makes sense and is falling into order uh if you zoom out. Something I've been discussing with a lot of guests, and we kind of kicked it around yesterday, but does this meme coin frenzy, and this is open to anyone on the panel, does this feel different, what's happening this time versus the previous cycles? I like to remind people that effectively the last cycle,

as much as people like to have cognitive dissonance and believe that it was because of Bitcoin and Michael Saylor, the real retail interest last cycle came in through two things, which was NFTs, right? People forget that Top Shot drove a massive, massive influx of capital into the crypto ecosystem and Doge, right? And then the trick influx of capital into the crypto ecosystem. And Doge, right? And then the trickle down of dog coins from Doge.

But I remember my interviews with CZ and others during that time. And every single time I spoke to any exchange CEO at that point, they said, we can't hire customer service people fast enough to onboard. We can't do KYC fast enough. We have a one month, two month waiting list to sign up. And that's all because people want to trade Doge, literally. Right. And so, yeah, go ahead, Ryan.

No, I was going to agree. I think NFTs are a prime example of where we saw the same exact kind of activity happening in 2021 that led to the market top of that cycle. If you remember, there's NFT projects launching every single day. I mean, multiple projects a day that were launching that were going up, multiple ETH, multiple thousands of dollars. Projects were launching through anonymous devs on Discord that would then rug the project and people were just aping into it because you see a project going up 10x in a week and you want that same gain.

And so it's actually very reminiscent of that type of activity that we were seeing. The vehicle is slightly different. Meme coins versus NFTs. But at a high level, those are two very, very similar vehicles and people expressing their kind of FOMO into the market in a very similar way. I remember from 2017, which was the original ICO craze, the projects that were ended, like there were dozens, hundreds of projects, but there was a serious institutional involvement, right, in every single one of them. There was an organization, there was a foundation,

there was some formal offering documents, blah, blah, blah, blah. With the meme coin stuff, though, it seems almost like people have taken a lesson from that, which is that if you have formal organization and you make certain promises to your investors, the SEC is going to take all those things, they're going to ingest it, and then you're going to get an enforcement notice. And so that's the first thing, is that the projects are deeply unserious. And the second one is it seems a lot easier for ordinary people to now run them. So essentially the barrier to entry, if you wanted to participate in 2017, was that you needed to have an engineering team. So like Tezos, for example, made a big deal out of the fact that they wrote their entire software in OCaml, which is this weird French computing language used by academics.

And so they had all of this, all of these features, all of this stuff, all of this investment. But now people are just like, we don't care. It's sort of nihilistic. And the barrier to entry is extremely low. So I think that means that potentially in the near future, you're going to see some technologically innovative projects that are bringing some new things to the table that are going to sort of parasitize off that interest and maybe do some legal structuring, right, chiefly accomplished by launching your coin offshore and blocking the United States, which is going to piggyback off of that, but that we haven't seen that yet. Ryan, one of your colleagues, and now I'm blanking on who it was, it was his first time

on the show the other day, made the very good point that Preston sort of just echoed, which was that that cycle I described with Doge required you to wait to be KYC'd and onboarded to a centralized exchange. This time, I guess it's a massive improvement in UX UI. Nobody needs to go to centralized exchanges to participate in meme coins anymore, right? You can just go to Solana, someone can punch one really quickly, but also your average person, whether the mainstream's here or not, UX UI is now simple enough that they feel comfortable going and trading on a DEX rather than a centralized exchange and participating in this activity. So I think that that's a big

change from this cycle. And if you ignore what it's being used for is actually quite bullish for the ability of at least new people to enter. Yeah, well, moving on to Solana is so much easier now than it was a year ago or two years ago. You can very easily move some crypto or some dollars i guess straight on to your your wallet or you can go through coinbase and within a few clicks in a few minutes have some usdc or stable coins sitting in your your phantom wallet and easily ape into whatever meme coin you want the this the transaction happens near instantly. The cost is extremely, extremely low. And that's a far cry from when NFTs were going bonkers in 2021. And people, I mean, even then people were paying $50, $75, $100 to mint NFTs or more just trying to get in on the cycle. And so it's not

that surprising now that the cost to enter is so much lower that we're seeing almost more net people enter the market because you haven't priced out people who were unwilling to pay $100 to try to mint this NFT. Now it's like, what, $0.20, $0.30 a dollar maybe to get an entry in on a coin. So a $50 investment in a meme coin or $100 investment in a meme coin doesn't seem so crazy these days. And they're like free free to mint and almost free to get marisa you had your hand up you and then uh isabel after yeah thanks uh so as i'm listening to this i'm getting so much deja vu from previous cycles i i think we're seeing a lot of the same um traits repeat one of the things that gave me a lot of

deja vu was this article by bloomer that came out not too long ago that said that Bitcoin was minting X many number of millionaires per day. And that reminded me to that article from I think it was Fortune that had those two guys hugging saying everybody's getting crazy rich on crypto and you're not. So it's this sort of media getting in on the FOMO. It's this point that Preston made about the meme coins getting even more ridiculous. Like this time around, you don't even need to pretend that you have a project or a serious business. It's the more outrageous, the more the funnier the token is. It's almost like a game now. And so I see one that's that I was paying attention to this Latin American one called MAGAIBA, which is literally a token out of a pink lizard. And that thing got to like $14 million cap within two days, or less than a week. And so I started seeing a lot of the same

problems, I would say, or excesses that we saw in the previous cycles. It's not like they're going away. It's almost like they're getting supercharged. And I think of this as, you know, this goes into a all fun and games part of the cycle, then it starts, you know, you start realizing that it's money, and you're actually getting people to invest in financial products, and people start losing money. And then you start getting into the issues part of it. So I guess the question I have for this panel is, how do you how do you all think this is going to get resolved on the way down? As you know, we had a big run up, but what do you guys think the way down is going to look like? Where are we going to find some footing?

I'm going to let Isabel speak and then we can address that. Go ahead, Isabel. I was going to say, Uwe, that's like a really interesting question. I personally really love meme coins. I feel like they're kind of like a leverage play on Bitcoin itself. I feel like arguably Bitcoin is like one big meme coin, you know, like no utility, no roadmap, no founders. It's just like it is what it is.

And I kind of think that that's a feature, not a bug. I do think that this cycle is going to be, I mean, right now we're clearly seeing like people love no utility, no roadmap, no founder. I actually sometimes get a little like of a cringe factor when I think about like a project that has like a super, super serious, like, you know, it's almost like pretending to be more serious than it is. Like, I think it's refreshing for folks to see like the Bitcoin puppets and like the ridiculous memetics. People love that. And I think that they, you know, yeah, I think that there's something that lands a little bit yeah i think that it there's something

that lands a little bit more authentic about that maybe than some of these other projects that kind of like maybe pretend to be more serious than like you know really it's just like a giant gambling ring like let's be real um so i don't know that's sort of like my point of view on that uh but also just to answer the question about like you know what is the cycle how is the cycle going to be different you know for me the elephant in the cycle, how is the cycle going to be different? For me, the elephant in the room is, well, the cycle is going to be different because Bitcoin is getting in the game. You can shitcoin on Bitcoin now. That's a huge difference.

And I think that's going on and rationalize it. Because to your point, I do think it's coming. I mean, listen, Preston, it's interesting what you said about the no utility and just community that Isabel just echoed. Even when I spoke to Austin from Solana Foundation this morning, he literally said exactly what she did, that Bitcoin was the original meme coin, and that it's all about community. And that's what's being built here. But when you said people aren't even pretending this time, there's actually another angle to that, which is that we've heard from other lawyers that if you don't pretend there's utility, and you don't pretend that expected profit, even though we know that people think there is, then you're not a security at all. And somehow because of the fucked up regulatory

structure in the United States, you're actually probably safer launching a dog with hat than you are attempting to do something with real utility. Is that accurate in your mind? I mean, subject to loads of qualifications, provisos, et cetera. I mean, the question is, you know, what is in the mind of the purchaser when they're buying the token? And then what expectations have they been led to believe? If indeed, right, there is no, so I've started a coin, right, of my own. I did it three years ago called Marmot coin.

There were only a hundred of them and I gave them away, right? So the reasonable expectation that we had when we were, and we gave them away, if you donated money to the Marmot recovery foundation, marmots.org slash donate, if anyone would like to do that, they say the rare and endangered Vancouver Island Marmot. This, this, this crypto policy are sponsored by the Marmot recovery foundation.

But anyway, so we gave away a hundred of these things. Official sponsorship of the show, by the way, guys. Marmots have sponsored this show. But Marmots with hats are not affiliated. Go ahead. Someone then created Marmot with hat, right? On the same blockchain like last week. But I mean, if you're doing it and there's no continuing enterprise or anything like that, basically the likelihood, right, that the SEC is going to pay attention to you is much, much lower. Remember, the government has limited resources, right? But when they decide to apply those resources on you, they have unlimited resources. So they have unlimited

discretion to apply the resources they have. I think the bet that a lot of these people are making is that the project is small enough or it's unknown enough that they're going to somehow escape notice. Now, this week, the SEC just announced, I think just yesterday, that they're forming a specialized task force to deal with meme coin issuances. And how I think that's- Oh, that was, by the way, that was fake. That tweet that showed the SEC press release, it was faked, just so you so you know but listen that wouldn't surprise us and they have been looking at icos but yeah it was a classic one of these classic crypto twitter things somebody and i went i immediately checked the real sec website and that press release wasn't

there so i think it's fake i saw it i saw it last night i got back from new york and saw before i went to bed and i was like oh god i went to went to sleep and didn't, didn't double check. But, um, how this worked in 2017, right. Was the sec would basically find out who is behind little tiny coin schemes. They'd send them a strongly worded letter saying, maybe you don't want to be doing this before the coin was launched. And then the coin would shut down. Right. So that was their preferred enforcement approach was try to knock out as many of these little things as they can with, you know, a kind word. Right. And and maybe get get ahead of it. In this case, I don't you know, because remember, there's a process before an enforcement action takes place, because if you're going to have a successful enforcement action has to be voted on by the commission. And so there are a limited number of things that they're actually going to bring. My prediction would be that if they can find a couple of these projects as examples, they'll probably bring some enforcement actions against some of the larger ones to try to make examples of them. And they'll probably engage in a letter writing campaign to others, right, to kind of freak them out and make them, you know, make them not proceed to the extent that they can get ahead of them. The issue that they're going to have is that a lot

of this stuff, as you said, they're anons on Twitter. There was one, there's one point late last week where I was sitting down at my computer and I saw no fewer than four different ICOs being announced. In some cases, it was just a simple send this to this address, and I will mint you another coin. I think one important question will be if the tokens you send are burned, or if they're retained by the developer. I think if you have a meme coin where you send it to a particular address, they retain the tokens, and they're saying, cool, we've got 10 million bucks and, you know, maybe we'll do something with it to develop it. I think that might be enough to make out a, you know, to, to pass the test, which is not something you want to do. You'll want it. You want to fail it.

So if you have a scheme where there's no money changing hands, someone just created something really, really stupid. They haven't retained any of it for themselves. There's no continuing managerial efforts behind the enterprise. And it is truly just like, this is stupid, and I'm not going to get rich, and neither is anybody else. And it's a one-off, which we're actually starting to see. There was an ordinals drop, which happened about two, three weeks ago, which did exactly that. I can't remember what it was called off the top of my head. That's the kind of thing where, yes, I think't remember what it was called off the top of my head. That's the kind of thing where, yes, I think the likelihood is the SEC probably doesn't decide to go after them all.

I don't think they can, but they may pick one or two. They may also get the somebody gets Kim Kardashian. Yeah, well, or they'll go right. I mean, someone gets the Kim Kardashian treatment and then, you know, they may also they may also try, I mean, keeping in mind what they did with Coinbase and Binance, you know, I think, I think they were tired of playing whack-a-mole with ICOs. So they decided they were going to go after the exchanges instead. And then the exchanges decided, okay, well, this is existential for our business. So we're going to put up a fight. The next fight on the horizon is front ends for services that are providing access to DeFi. And we saw kind of an opening salvo on that front with the CFTC in August of last year with Open, Daradex, and 0x,

those three settlements being announced. And so the question, it's really an open question, what happens with the rest of the token ecosystem that doesn't involve leverage and doesn't implicate the CEA, but rather implicates the Securities Act or the Exchange Act. So that's, I think, what the next thing is. We've seen, there was, I think, some enforcement in relation to some of the DeFi exchanges. I don't want to speak out of turn because I have some, you know, identifying, because I may or may not have knowledge about certain things that I'm not supposed to talk about from years of practicing law. So, but essentially, that's the next battle. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Solana

front end people start getting inquiry letters soonish. Can I say, sorry, I just wanted to say that I said the word lawyer and Zach appeared, but you can't get more billable hours here, dude. Sorry. No, this is a break from the billboard. I was just saying, I think the other sign we might have of what you were saying is the good ruling from the SEC's perspective that they got in the Terraform case from Judge Rakoff about how important it was that they set up market makers to provide liquidity. And I think for some of these meme coins where there's not necessarily over-promised future efforts, the fact that they are trying to set up an ecosystem where these coins can pump is what the SEC could latch onto for.

They're trying to shove this into Howie. Mario. Yeah. I was going to ask a separate question. I'm not sure if you covered it. Cause I had glitches. I couldn't hear all the speakers, but Preston's act.

We were talking about meme coins earlier. There's that belief in the meme coin community that if you launch a token and you don't promise anything, you say, hey, send us money. We don't promise you'll get a token, but it's implied that you're going to get a token. And then obviously they could drug, maybe not drug. And they think they're kind of indemnifies them. If they don't promise it's going to be a token, they don't promise they're going to deliver anything. Yeah, that's effectively what we were discussing. You probably couldn't hear Preston.

Yeah, so I couldn't hear half what he's saying. How do we ask about the reasonable expectation of the people who are acquiring the tokens? And so you can't really be too cute by half and say, hey, you know, something may or may not happen that will be good for you financially. Definitely, people are trying to do this in some way with these point schemes where it's like, listen, these are non-transferable rewards points. There may or may not be an airdrop of fungible tokens later. I think there is probably a way to do this. In fact, I do think there's a way to do this that minimizes your risk, but you need to have really good discipline

about what you say and what you don't say. And I think for projects, the marketing materials are key. I love it. Anything, exactly. Anything you say, so you can say all these things, but just kind of mention something in a space, mention something in a tweet that implies that there's going to be a price that will increase or efforts to increase the price, something along those lines. Obviously I'm not a lawyer and no one who can give the answer, but you're still at risk. You saying, Hey, we cannot promise you'll get your tokens we cannot promise but everyone knows that they're going to get their tokens kind of implied or you've done it before everyone does

it it's going to become the playbook um that doesn't indemnify them like i hope all the shit coiners here listening anyone that's hosting a shit coin because that's the key language the key language in the how we test is not a promise of profits. It's an expectation of profits. So that requires the analysis to look at the economic reality of the transaction at the moment that the purchaser entered into it. And if there's an expectation by that purchaser of profits, right, arising in profits from a common enterprise arising from the efforts of others, that expectation is the thing that deems it an investment contract and thus brings it within the US securities regime. Probably. What we should do, Scott, is get some of these people that have launched meme coins and then

bring them on stage with a bunch of lawyers. Zach and Preston would be great. And then just have a discussion. We can kind of give them feedback. Like, I did this, this, and that. Yeah, I think we're planning something with a meme. I was going to say, Preston would just be like like, oh, you fucked up. You've got to get out of the US right now.

That would be epic. Usually, I charge for that. That's kind of how I make a living. Preston, there's an ROI here. The humor of it, the fun of it will be epic. I was going to say, think about how many clients you'll get after

the space. Come on. I think we're doing a meme coin space again on Thursday. You become Preston, you become the meme coin lawyer. I think someone should become the meme coin. We have NFT lawyer. We have crypto lawyer. I'm sure we had Bitcoin lawyer five, six years ago. And before that we had blockchain lawyer. So next would be a, next would be meme coin lawyer, the meme lawyer.

I'd love a meme lawyer account to come up once in a while. I hate to bring it to you, Mara. In this part of the cycle, we're all meme lawyers. Do you actually get meme clients, Zach? All the time. I mean, that's what a lot of people want to watch. Oh, shit. And do they, another question.

Do they, so one thing I was thinking about is like, but they don't really have any incentive not to fuck around if they just leave the US and go to Dubai or go to Eastern Europe. Can they feel safe? country. Lots of people try and do offshore foundations. How good those are really depend on the specific facts and how well they're set up. But no, I mean, if you really do something big that the SEC wants to go after, what triggers the SEC jurisdiction is the coins getting in the hands of US persons. And that doesn't matter where you live.