The Wolf Of All Streets - Explosive Growth For Bitcoin | Why Brian Rose AKA LondonReal Is So Bullish On Crypto

Starting point is 00:00:00 This special coverage of Token 2049 is proudly brought to you by the Aptos Foundation. Life happens for a reason. That should make Americans angry. I mean, it went pretty dark, okay? So I've gone dark. Skynet. Then we get bored. We sell. And then they happen exceptionally fast. I checked the price of Bitcoin. It was around $26,000. Now it's $60,000 today. Oh, we made an all-time high, 74,000. Nothing's happened for months. I'm super bullish, but I'm careful.

Starting point is 00:00:29 Come on. I've had a number of conversations with Brian Rose, but usually I'm being interviewed, not doing the interview myself. It was an honor to sit down with a guy who's run for the mayor of London twice, who is a Wall Street trader, and who's known for his incredible fashion sense and bright suits. We talked about censorship, freedom,

Starting point is 00:00:52 and why crypto is so important, and everybody should own it. You know that you're wearing the perfect color suit today, finally. Because I'm a University of Florida Gator fan, and you got the orange and blue. Did you do that for me? I mean, you know, life happens for a reason. So I guess so. I thought I was orange-filling the world, but you know, the blue,

Starting point is 00:01:31 I'm glad I can put a smile on the face. I guess the orange filling makes a lot more sense than my Gator fandom. Yeah. Well, my suits have become like part of my brand somehow. So now I'm trying to like, trying to top myself. So the most important question then is who makes your suits? I've got a tailor in London. He's a Savile Row tailor who has a royal warrants

Starting point is 00:01:50 and he used to do the whole royal family, the late Prince Philip. This guy's super old school. He tells stories about doing Sean Connery's suits and he's been making my suits for like five years. I learned about tailoring and so now it's just become my thing. And now it's just part of me. How do you choose the color combinations? I know there's exactly what everyone's expecting to hear in our Bitcoin, but this is more interesting to me. I mean, we are in crypto. And so I figured an orange suit would be bold. My last suit was red. My tailor said, no, you can't make a red suit. I was like, make me a red suit. It was a hit. And so then I was like, let's go orange. But this one is super bright. And I think it's a win. I'm happy. Crypto investors in the United States face some

Starting point is 00:02:34 major challenges. One of them is that there's almost no way to get exposure to the asset class inside of your traditional investment vehicles. The other thing is the taxes. They are absolutely atrocious. What if I told you there was a way to solve both of these problems? Well, there is. And it's with a self-directed IRA from iTrust Capital. Guys, not only can you open a new self-directed IRA and fund it with the limits each year, but you can actually convert over from your 401k, your Roth IRA, any other IRA that you already have and you can do that tax-free, just transferring over the balance and then you can go to cash, buy as much Bitcoin than you want

Starting point is 00:03:11 and not pay taxes when you sell it. You absolutely have to try this if you are in the United States. Use the link down below. It's bit.ly slash itrust-scott. That's B-I-T dot L-Y slash I-T-R-U-S-T dash S-C-O-T-T. You have to try this now. I love it. So obviously pivoting to more important things and your amazing fashion sense and my utter lack thereof. We're in token 2049. We're in Singapore.

Starting point is 00:03:41 I think I've seen you most conferences around the world at this point for a five minute conversation and a handshake. But I think it's been interesting to see the evolution of conferences, the de-evolution of conferences, depending on the price of Bitcoin or what kind of market you're in. This is now a 20,000 person conference. Two years ago, it was a few thousand. What does that say to you, having gone to all of these and traveling around the world about the state of the industry? So look, I only go to four conferences a year because I, like you, I've got a business to run. I got a media company. We invest in a lot of companies. I teach. So I got to really choose

Starting point is 00:04:17 wisely. I go to ConsenSys in the States. I go to Paris Blockchain. I go to Token in Dubai. And I come here. First time was last year. First time in Singapore. We were in the middle of a crypto winter bear market. I checked the price of Bitcoin is around twenty six thousand. Now it's 60 today. And I was blown away by how Asia decided not to participate in the crypto bear market that North America was in. And I was like, wow. And so here they're going full force. They're into gaming. They're into investing. And so I was blown away. This place was hopping last year. Now I come back a year later and it's double the size. You know, Asia is leading blockchain. Americans don't want

Starting point is 00:04:57 to hear that because I think this is the first technology innovation in the last 200 years that America hasn't dominated. And I think it's really good to get over here and see how a big chunk of the world moves. And so I love coming here. It's a long flight from London, not as long as your flight, but we have a lot of investments now in Asia and a lot of gaming investments. And we have investments here in Singapore. So I love coming. I really love the vibe. Singapore is like crypto. It's an amazing success story built from nothing. And so I get a lot of good vibes. And then I've been told Thailand is now happening. You know, Malaysia is happening. What's going on in the Philippines? We invested in a company in Indonesia. So look, my Asia game

Starting point is 00:05:36 isn't that strong, but I come here once a year just to make sure I know what's up. Exactly the reason that I do it. And I've said the same thing, the bipolarity of the state of things in the United States and here, a little less defined now because things are improving and things are thawing. But last year I went from consensus where the bulk of the exhibit booths were bankruptcy attorneys, accountants, lawyers of all kinds. Not a good sign. It's a bit of a bummer. Everybody fearing regulation and what could happen. And then I came over here and it's like crypto Coachella, to your point. And I had this incredible conversation here with

Starting point is 00:06:14 Haseeb Qureshi from Dragonfly last year. And he said, listen, they don't even care about SBF or FTX. He was a blip in the news cycle in Asia. We're obsessed with him in the United States and the regulatory environment. That never happened here. And they just kept on building, as you said. So on the investment side, that has to be exceptionally exciting. You go to the US and you can't find anything to invest in without worrying if you're going to fall under regulatory scrutiny or be on the wrong side of some law that doesn't exist yet. Totally different. Yeah, we invested in a triple-A gaming company called Shrapnel in the States and I had Mark Long, the CEO, came in. I love it. It's an amazing game,

Starting point is 00:06:56 but he was in the studio. We shot a two-hour interview and then he's like, you got to be careful. I can't say the token's more than a utility and everyone's walking on eggshells, which I get and I respect. But you come here, there's none of that. None of that going on. I think Korea, this last week or two, just agreed that all these tokens are now securities and now mergers can happen and the government gets their blessing. And, you know, Asia's moving forward. Hong Kong is moving forward in a big way. And so, yeah, it's refreshing being here.

Starting point is 00:07:28 But they call them securities there, and that's a good thing. I know. Being called a security in the United States is like a four-letter word. It's your death note. I know. Don't get me started about that. I'd like to get you started about that. I mean, look, I went to MIT.

Starting point is 00:07:42 And so when I saw that Gary Gensler had taught a class at the Sloan School of Management, I took the whole thing 24 hours long. This was three years ago. It's on YouTube. And I was like, wow, this guy really understands cryptography. You know, he really gets it. And then to see what he's done in there, it just he's gone very political. And it's really hard to watch. I'm in London and it's really hard to watch, you know, the country I was born in just mess up one of the greatest innovations in history. So but now we've got, what, 50 some days. We've got Trump now with a crypto project. Obviously, he was a Bitcoin Nashville when you were there. These are huge developments. But we're going to see what happens. It's still a 50-50 chance, right? Yeah. And that will make a difference this election, right? I think it's going to make a huge difference for

Starting point is 00:08:24 the crypto industry, Certainly. I'm not sure what it would mean for Bitcoin itself as an asset or for the price. Right. There's a silver lining to either victor, depending on how you view it for Bitcoin. But I think for the industry, to your point, four more years of the same would be brutal. Yeah. Now we got rate cuts. That hasn't happened in four years. I'm super bullish that rate cuts are bullish for crypto, but I hear contradicting voices on that too. I don't see how it's not bullish. Dan Tapiero runs a fund called 1RT that we're invested in. Huge fan of Dan. Look, I worked on Wall Street for 15 years and Wall Street and London. I knew a lot of traders, good ones, bad ones. Dan is one of the best. When SBF was happening in October 22, Dan was buying assets for his fund for pennies on the dollar. I don't know many people that were putting their money where their mouth is. And now he said, look, you know, look where rates were when Bitcoin was here. Look where the rates are going. He said, this is all bullish. Follow that

Starting point is 00:09:21 man on Twitter because I think he's calling, you know. I think you see Tap on Twitter. He's literally one of my favorite interviews. Love. Huge vision and early on everything. Yeah. And he's highly invested. I think he's got 100 million of his own money in that fund. He always said, Brian, I had lunch with him here last year.

Starting point is 00:09:38 He said, Brian, don't ever invest in anything where the founder is an all in. And his digital asset ecosystem, almost all equities, conservative. But again, you know, 10T Holdings, $10 trillion crypto ecosystem that he now thinks is going to $30 trillion. So I listen to guys like that, macro guys. And I'm just I'm super bullish. I'm super bullish, but I'm careful. We all have to take profits. We can't get crazy in the next 12 months. I think everybody needs to make intelligent decisions. That's what I'm careful. We all have to take profits. You can't get crazy in the next 12 months. I think everybody needs to make intelligent decisions. That's what I'm trying to tell all my people. You and I, I think are same ballpark in age. Yeah. Kicking around the standard deviations around 50.

Starting point is 00:10:19 Still not that many of us, I think in this industry, certainly not as many who have gone all in, in the way that you have, right? You sort of passively discuss the investment wing, the media wing, the educational wing. You've done a lot of things in your life, but you landed here. So why? Why does this still inspire you, especially after the wreckage that we've actually seen over the past few years? Yeah, you know, in 2020, my life changed massively because I was nine years in the podcasting business. I was enjoying this actually seen over the past few years? Yeah, you know, in 2020, my life changed massively because I was nine years in the podcasting business. I was enjoying this second career as a YouTuber.

Starting point is 00:10:50 I was Joke, that's what I was, from going from a Wall Streeter. And I was having this rebirth of me discovering things, discovering myself, having these amazing long-form conversations. And then COVID and lockdown hit, and I got censored by YouTube. And that brought out all this anger in me that my human rights were being violated.

Starting point is 00:11:09 And we got famous slash infamous for putting out interviews that questioned the narrative. That really showed me that freedom of speech was really important. Crypto is an instrument of freedom. And to quote Yatsu of Animoca Brands, if you don't have property ownership, you don't have freedom. And if you don't have digital property ownership, you don't have digital freedom. We all live in a digital world these days. So I was pulled into this somehow. And now when I see it, I see my own freedom embodied in this whole market. And I always tell people, if you don't have digital assets that the government can't touch or print more of or tax or inflate, you

Starting point is 00:11:43 don't really have real freedom. And I'm good friends with Tim Kennedy. He's a Green Beret. And I had a podcast with him one time and he was talking about his guns. And I paused and I said, now I know why you have guns, because the guns allow you to protect your property. Your property gives you freedom. And he said, exactly, Brian. And that's why we have to protect our digital assets. So I'm all in on this. I can't go anywhere else. It feels right to be here. When you mentioned the election and I said there was a silver lining to both sides, the mentality that he has, that he described to you is the reason that I think Bitcoin could perform well regardless. You have the Donald Trump side that says, listen, this guy's going to go all in. He's going to make it a strategic reserve asset.

Starting point is 00:12:26 But on the flip side, the same people who buy guns and ammo or say I'm moving out of the country when there's a regime they don't like should naturally buy Bitcoin. Yes, they should. Yeah, exactly. So I'm expecting those people to kind of go all in. And I think they're going to stay regardless of what happens. And also you see this new Trump DeFi project, which is some people have said that's the last thing we need right now in this election. But Trump does whatever the hell he wants to do. I think our echo chamber thinks it has anything to do with the election or anyone will pay any attention.

Starting point is 00:12:58 But I don't think the rest of the world that's thinking about abortion and immigration and the economy, they're not worried about his DeFi project. No, they're not. We're very self-important. Yes. And also Kamala and her team, I think, have just chosen that crypto is not important to her election. I think she's just triaging.

Starting point is 00:13:14 I think it could be a major mistake and we could look back at this and it could be the greatest case study in crypto voters we've ever seen. But, you know, I guess they're trying to triage and they're doing their thing. But it is a shame because they had a little window where I think they could have brought some voters over, but they haven't addressed it. So I don't know. We'll see. But what happens in the U.S. really affects the rest of the world.

Starting point is 00:13:36 And it even concerns me in London because it's going to affect all of us, you know. So let's talk about London. What's the vibe on the ground in the UK for crypto right now? Because I think it's another questionable regulatory situation, not as much clarity as people would hope for. The previous prime minister, Rishi Sunak, conservative party came in and said, we're crypto friendly. And I think the last time I was here, everyone said, oh, the UK is crypto friendly. And I was like, what are you talking about? It's all lip service. I know Jamie Burke from Outlier Ventures, probably one of the most prominent early stage incubators, investors in crypto. And he said, Brian, I've been doing

Starting point is 00:14:14 this for seven years. I never have received a single email or a phone call from a member of parliament. And he's like, that shows you how serious they are about crypto. They're just not. They're not making it easy for exchanges. It's all nonsense. I ran to be mayor of London twice in 21 and 24. I analyzed the whole city from transportation to housing. I mean, our Western democracies are broken. Europe is breaking and is broken.

Starting point is 00:14:38 And the UK wants nothing to do with crypto, in my opinion. Now we're struggling with freedom of speech issues and all the other things you hear about in the UK. I would say on the ground, it's never as bad as it looks. No, I mean, those are not day-to-day problems for your average person in any of these countries, but they could be. They could be, and it's not a good sign when what you post on social media can get you in prison. We're in an information war. There's all sorts of crazy stuff with media. But I'm drawn to the Dub's and the Singapore's of the world

Starting point is 00:15:05 I spent a lot of time in Dubai right now. Why don't you live in Dubai? I got kids in London and my show is called London real But I'm gonna spend four or five months in Dubai this year this next year. I love it. I love everything about it I feel freer there. I love the vision. It's very London real Dubai. It very- No, but it's crazy because we feel freer there. I have the same sentiments and many would look from abroad. The West would tell you that a country like that is a oppressive regime. Yeah. Right?

Starting point is 00:15:35 Women are covered, not necessarily in Dubai, but in nations like that. And there's a lack of freedom, but that's not what you feel on the ground. Not at all. I think Tucker Carlson had that observation as well when he went to Dubai. And he said, wait, here I am in a monarchy feeling freer than ever. I think you're in a place where they have a vision. They don't tax you. And in some ways it is freer than being in a place that taxes you, impedes you, interferes with your life.

Starting point is 00:16:02 It actually take this take away your freedom. So, yeah, it's fascinating how it operates. And it's the place I want to be. I want to talk about the investment side. Yes. If you had to even ballpark it, how many projects do you think you're invested in crypto right now? So we've invested $15 million into about 62 different Web3 and blockchain startups all through London Real Ventures. Our value add is we bring the CEO to the studio, shoot a two hour, six camera HD interview with a Hollywood trailer, and we blow them up through all of our socials. And so that's what we do. And we give

Starting point is 00:16:35 that to them. So we get access to like the best deals on the planet. And my London Reelers, a small group of them invest alongside of us. I call us the world's first media powered investment firm. And so I love it. It's been amazing. We do about, you know, five deals a month, maybe a million, million and a half a month. And we're just not slowing down. We've got a 10 year horizon. We do gaming, DeFi projects, some deep in AI on the blockchain, Tapiero, anything that we really feel the vibe of. And I've loved it. How do you determine what's the due diligence? What's your team like for determining? And I'm not talking about price because we know that they all live and die by the market. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:18 But what's going to be an outright rug pull or scam and what you see as high quality? What even might likely break through versus something else. Because we all know that in this industry, when a narrative gets hot, deep in RWA, DeFi, the tourists rush in, a thousand devs build a thousand things and 99.9% of them go to zero. And generally we as investors ride that trade. Yeah. Well said. I mean, restaking earlier this year, AI is at one of those bubbles. Hard to say. There's been some performers. Where does Deepin go? Gaming was a big narrative a couple of years ago. Has it gone where we expected? No. Good question. But I think gaming is coming this

Starting point is 00:17:58 cycle, by the way. That's another question. I think so. And RWA, I think, is happening. So we have four CEOs a week pitch live to our group. They get 30 minutes and then they do like a shark tank with me and I kind of grill them in front of an audience. And so we get a pretty raw version of what they're all about. And then on top of that, we usually invest alongside an Andreessen or a Cathie Wood or a Blockchain Founders Fund. You see who's there. Yeah. And then I ask around about them and we got a pretty good network. And so that's really how we do.

Starting point is 00:18:28 I like to co-invest. I like to be the last dollar in a deal, not the first dollar in a deal. Will we make mistakes? Yes. So far, we haven't had any, you know, rug pulls or anything, you know, below board. And we've had some success so far. That's how we do it. I don't know if you want to edit this or not. So I'm going to, but I'm going to ask you and we're going to have a personal conversation. Let we've had some success so far. That's how we do it. I don't know if you want to edit this or not, but I'm going to ask you and we're going to

Starting point is 00:18:48 have a personal conversation. Let's do it, man. I'm in the States. Yes. It's heavily frowned upon, maybe not even legal, depending on how you disclose, what you invest in, how you're being compensated, doing the content that you discussed. I work with Mario Naufel, obviously. He's based in Dubai. We're co-owners of each other's companies. And his model is very similar to theirs. We do a launch spaces, we hype it up, whatever. If you do that in the United States, you might get Kim Kardashian and be told, even though you divulged it was an ad, you didn't say how much you were paid. There's so much lack of clarity that for someone like me,

Starting point is 00:19:23 I feel like I've missed all the opportunity because I'm so risk averse. How do you navigate that? Would you do this if you were in the States? Yeah, that's a great question because there's still no clarity. Like we saw a few people prosecuted or fined, you know, during kind of maybe 21 or 22. And then it's really not clear about what you can and can't do now. So it's a really tricky space. Are you a promoter? Are you an investor? Are you like, if you invested, but you got some extra tokens for marketing, can you even take tokens for payment in the United States?

Starting point is 00:19:53 I've never been able to get clarity on. So I just don't do it. And I'm offered it every day by pretty exceptional people and products. And I always say no. It's a mess. If I was in the United States, I think the model would be completely different.

Starting point is 00:20:06 You know, I have a global media channels though. So at what point will the United States start going after everyone in the world? I don't know. I mean, the UK threatened the other day that they were going to go after people in the US. They were, you know, violating things on social media like Elon,

Starting point is 00:20:21 if he was saying something about, you know, the immigrant situation in the UK. So we need some clarity. We needed a new president and we need some clarity because right now I think you're making the right decision. It's just too, it's too much risk there and there's just not enough right now. But it's interesting because nobody complains about a Super Bowl commercial, right? Which a company might spend $2 million to do. And you hear very few complaints about influencers outside of crypto. And I'm not calling you an influencer, but influencer marketing or the, you know, the kind of things we're discussing. That is the way that people decide what's credible or worth buying.

Starting point is 00:21:00 But for some reason in crypto, it's such a controversial idea. Yeah, I think that comes from the top of the SEC. As Elon said, the SEC is a mess of an operation. Some call it a racket where the people in there try to do high profile prosecutions to get jobs at high profile law firms after they get out. And they only go after certain cases. I mean, they're a bit in an attention economy themselves. They're trying to get the biggest bang for the buck to try to scare the most people. It really is a mess,

Starting point is 00:21:30 that whole organization. And it's not just crypto, but right now, like you said, crypto people get triggered, but the other people don't. I mean, when they went after Kim Kardashian, he literally made like a cartoon video, Gary Gensler, a cartoon video like, yeah, this is why, and this is what she did. And obviously she was making an example so that nobody else would do it, which to the point has worked. Yeah. But you should be able to invest in something you like and publicly talk about it in an excited manner without worrying about getting in trouble. Yes, you should. And Gary quoted Joseph Kennedy, who founded the SEC, I believe, was one of the founding members.

Starting point is 00:22:07 He said no honest man should fear the SEC. I couldn't believe he said that. It was like nine months ago. And it just shows that they want to they want to rule by fear. And I can't believe a United States institution is doing that. But that's the that's the precedent that he set. And it's a terrible way to run anything. We've seen everything come. We talked about the election. We had this interesting scenario where we've seen in the United States that the laws even change every four years. Right.

Starting point is 00:22:42 Depending on who gets in and who's in power, the huge policy of some previous administration is immediately repealed and everything changes. Trump has an NFT collection. He has a DeFi. I think we can say that those things are not going to be deemed securities under his regime. What if all of a sudden everything rushes back to the United States if Trump wins and everybody gets excited? And four years later, you're all of a sudden back under a different regime and you've broken the law for four years by, I don't understand. Yeah. Or the legal system gets hijacked to where whoever's in power or whoever are the, I don't know, Soros funded individual localized judicial, like we're seeing with Trump, maybe they decide, you know, maybe it doesn't even come from the top. I met a guy last night who said it wasn't obvious that Trump could fire Gary Gensler. He said he's appointed. I was like,

Starting point is 00:23:26 like, like, like Powell is. He said, yeah, it's not obvious he can fire him. And I was like, he can probably freeze him out so bad he wants to leave. But these are interesting questions. Yeah. America's going through some challenging times. Would you ever leave? Well, you can't. You have family. I wouldn't because of family. And I still believe in him in America. Right. I'm not one of those. If this guy wins, I'm out of here. Because I know that, well, it's the same low time preference. When you zoom out the pendulum, I feel like always swings. It happens to maybe be swinging in an unfavorable direction at the moment.

Starting point is 00:23:55 I think you posted on Twitter the other day, whoever you want to win the election, if they don't, it's not really going to be as big of a deal as you think it is, right? Yeah. And you're right. People think I'm nuts, but you've heard it your whole life, right? If such and such happens, the world is ending. Maybe this time is different, but that's what they've said in every election I've seen now for the past, you know, 20, 24 years. There was a time when your guy lost and

Starting point is 00:24:19 you're like, all right, the other guy's fine. Yeah. You know, the Reagan, Bush, Clinton years, people were kind of, you know, they accepted. It's just a very different environment. It is. And I think people project a lot of their own personal power based on that candidate. And it's not true. I mean, in the UK, we just went to a labor government. Is my life going to change at all?

Starting point is 00:24:39 Probably not. Will they raise the max tax rate? Maybe. In the US, with the crypto, it'll slow us down. But it really changed everybody's day-to-day life? Probably not. Will they raise the max tax rate? Maybe. In the US, with the crypto, it'll slow us down. But it really changed everybody's day-to-day life? Probably not. Now, 20 years from now, if it continues to go on this way... Yeah, if the pendulum keeps swinging, I think we could have a fundamental problem.

Starting point is 00:24:59 I think that's what people fear. Yes. Because they can see the path and they're fearful that it will continue. Maybe I'm a bit more of an optimist. But but you know, you always are until you have a reason not to be. And it's a scary environment, certainly in the United States. I mean, you talked about obviously in 2020 being censored and that was sort of your catalyst into this industry.

Starting point is 00:25:20 Does that mean at the heart, even with all these investments, that you're a Bitcoiner? You know, I love Bitcoin. OK, it's a great instrument of freedom. But also, look, so Max Keiser was on my show in 2013 because I wanted to know what Bitcoin was all about. That's when I bought my first Bitcoin and Max was screaming his head off about it. And I went on his show. He was rushing today at the time in London. I asked him to come back on my show when we went back into crypto in 21. He refuses to come on my program. Because you're a shit point. Yeah, exactly. And you know what that's like.

Starting point is 00:25:51 But I had so many people on my show, including Yatsu, that said the whole idea of Bitcoin and Satoshi, it was not about having our only one thing and nobody else can do this. It's an instrument that anybody can use in whatever way they want to use it. Just like freedom of speech.

Starting point is 00:26:07 As Elon said, freedom of speech is when someone you don't like says something you don't want to hear. I think the same is true with crypto assets. You know, someone you don't like creating a crypto asset that you don't respect. We have to let everybody do those things. And so I see these things as imperative in building communities. It's better for capital markets. Like, why do I need the SEC to approve a public offering to raise capital? Why can't I raise capital on the blockchain?

Starting point is 00:26:31 Like, what an amazing way to do that and build community to do that. So I think everybody should be allowed to do that. Of course, I love Bitcoin and I respect it in a massive way, but I'm not a maxi and I'm around maxis too much. I get a little stressed out. And also there's amazing community and there's amazing governance. There's a lot going on besides that. So what excites you the most now?

Starting point is 00:26:53 You're making all these investments. You said, listen, gaming, you kind of said it passively. It didn't happen, but there's legitimate AAA games now being built. We have this human tendency to think things are going to happen exceptionally fast. They don't. And we get bored. We sell. And then they happen exceptionally fast. Right. Just a matter of timeframe. Like the narratives of eight years ago are finally happening. Which do you think we see 24, 25, 26 that are not 10 years away? I think gaming is one

Starting point is 00:27:23 of them to be honest. Also like IMAX Wall Street. And so to see what BlackRock is doing with real world assets, they're actually tokenizing treasuries. They actually have their own coin, that Biddle coin or whatever. I mean, that blows my mind. And we've been talking to a few other RWA projects that are actually tokenizing securities. That blows my mind that that's actually happening. Obviously, BlackRock and Larry Fink, the chief marketing officer for Bitcoin, as Saylor jokes, which is

Starting point is 00:27:49 amazing. This is super positive. So look, a lot of people talk about RWA and they're not doing RWA, but I'm bullish on that for the future. Look, blockchain-based AI, I'm a big fan of decentralized open source AI. I'm very concerned by the same companies that censor me now censoring me with AI. Very concerned about that. So we do a bunch of those investments. I'm bullish on that. I want to know where my information comes from. Not that it's spit out from Google and it tells me the answer.

Starting point is 00:28:17 So I'm worried about that. I'm bullish. We're huge fans of Animoca Brands. I've got eight investments with Yad. I've had him on the show eight times. He's an extreme visionary. I actually think he's the next Elon Musk, really.

Starting point is 00:28:29 I'm bullish on gaming. My kids play games, but we need something to bring people into crypto. Obviously, the game has to be fun first. That's actually happening. These are the things I'm bullish on, but it's going to take time.

Starting point is 00:28:45 I made a video the other day. You know, I'm the same way. I'm harsh on myself in the short term, but I don't give myself enough credit in the long term. And that's what we're like as humans. And so again, last year, Bitcoin was less than half of the price of where we are now. If you go follow Dan Tapiero, he'll tell you about the size of the wallets and all these things that are increasing. So we just have to keep the North Star and just stay optimistic. And I got nothing better to do. It's so funny. We're sitting at 60,000 ish dollars depending on when this comes out. And people are seemingly pretty depressed. Yeah. The vibe when you go to the community is, oh, we made an all time high 74,000. Nothing's happened for months.

Starting point is 00:29:26 All coins haven't moved. It's over, man. What a crappy bull market. They're just they're greedy degen traders that maybe made a little too much money in those other bull cycles. I mean, I love them, but they just need to zoom out a little bit. I mean, I worked on Wall Street for many years. If you make a 15 percent return annually and stack those together, you're a god. You're a god. You're Ken Griffin, man. You're one of

Starting point is 00:29:50 the greatest investors of all time. But in crypto, it's all about size. Yeah. And in crypto, you don't make that in a month. You know, you're getting frustrated. So people just need to have a little perspective. You know, we're at a great level right now. So many bullish things happening. So, yeah, I just, you know, zoom out of it is what I would say. And hang out with the gray-haired guys, you know? And I think the younger people in this market have respect for the Mark Yusko's and the Scaramucci's and the Dan Tapiero's of this industry and the Scott Melkers as well, because, you know, they're like, okay, I'm going to listen to these guys a little bit because, all right, they've been around.

Starting point is 00:30:26 And I think the whole market's maturing. And I'm super bullish about that. I agree. I think that it is. And it's indisputable when you have Larry Fink. Yeah. I mean, BlackRock to me was the real game changing unlock. Maybe that's not the case for people in crypto, those 20 something year old degen traders. Maybe they don't get it.

Starting point is 00:30:48 Yeah, I think I said it on your show. I, you know, the joke, I was like the four branches of the government. Did I say that on your show? Executive, judicial, legislative and BlackRock. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. There's effectively a branch of the government, you know, the largest representative we're going to get from Wall Street. And the guy is fully orange-pilled. You're not talking about a guy who says this is an investable asset, you should buy this, whatever. You're talking about a guy who's talking about the failure of legacy systems, a hedge against bad behavior and failure of governments.

Starting point is 00:31:17 I mean, it's insane to hear him talking in this manner. Why doesn't everybody get this yet? It's incredible. He's like, oh, maybe you don't trust your government. Maybe you think they're going to print more money. That's why you want Bitcoin. It's like he's saying that on Kramer's show. Like you said, he is a branch of the government,

Starting point is 00:31:35 them and Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan. And he's saying that. It's bold. And again, I think they see an incredible way to make money. But also, I think CC is a non-correlated financial asset. You don't get many of those. And so we should pay attention. Some people think it's a correlated financial asset. I think it's a non-correlated financial asset to be clear. It's becoming more correlated, but like-

Starting point is 00:31:57 Is that one of those you get what you ask for, watch out what you ask for type of things with the institutionalization? Yeah. When the more institutions buy, I think it becomes a little bit more correlated. Yeah. Cause they can just sell it on a Saturday when they need liquidity to buy a stock on a Monday. Yeah. There's that too. But any portfolio manager is going to say, I'd love another non-correlated asset. And so that's just gives you better returns over time. It's been pretty much proven. So it's a beautiful thing. There's an ETF now. So any naysayers,

Starting point is 00:32:24 what are you going to say now? It's, it's a hundred percent legit There's an ETF now. So any naysayers, what are you going to say now? It's 100% legit. I was in my hotel last night and watching Bloomberg. And that was like a literally a 30 minute piece all about crypto. And I was like, what is this? A regular piece? Had the woman from Coinbase on, was talking about this, had an interview with someone at Token 2049.

Starting point is 00:32:40 I was like, I had never seen this before. This was not happening a year ago. Wall Street is covering it like a real asset now. And even Kramer's on board, whatever the hell that means. So this is, we're here. We're here. Let's just keep moving forward. So what could mess it up? You know, I had Yad in my studio a month ago and I asked him the same question at the end. I said, I said, is there anything, is said, can anything stop this? And he paused and he said, nope, I don't think so. Not now. And I agree. I don't think it can be stopped.

Starting point is 00:33:13 Two years ago, maybe they could have done things. But now I just don't think it's stoppable. And even if Trump doesn't get elected and Kamala comes and Gary Gensler comes hardcore, like you said, Bitcoin could still go up. We're going to keep moving forward. And no, I don't think it can be stopped now. It just cannot. I think it's just sad for Americans because we'll be marginalized in the industry, but it's a global asset. Yeah. Again, it's one of the biggest technological innovations in the last 200 years that America doesn't dominate.

Starting point is 00:33:39 That should make Americans angry. You know, that's something that just needs to happen. And that needs to change. Talked about a fear of AI being used effectively to increase censorship. How do you frame this in sort of the evolution of technology in conflict with the government perhaps not viewing freedom as important as it once did, depending on where you are.

Starting point is 00:34:06 Because I think a lot of people view AI as a liberator, right, for productivity, certainly, and ability to make money. But if put in the wrong hands, it's one of the most terrifying technologies ever. Yeah, look, when ChatGPT came out, I went deep down the dark rabbit hole on all things AI. I was actually good friends with Dr. Ben Goertzel of SingularityNet, Look, when ChatGPT came out, I went deep down the dark rabbit hole on all things AI. I was actually good friends with Dr. Ben Goertzel of SingularityNet, which is now the super alliance. Yeah, they merged with Batch, SingularityNet, and Ocean. I had him on my show five years ago, and we were just talking about AI. And it was really interesting.

Starting point is 00:34:38 He came on the show. The next day, I forgot everything. And then all of a sudden, I saw ChatGPT. I got him back on the show, and I started going deep down the rabbit hole. I knew Mo Gowdit, who wrote a book called Scary Smart, former Google X. I had Diamandis on. I had Max Tegmark of MIT. And I had Hugo de Garis, who wrote a book called The Artilect War, which is how a billion people are going to die in the future.

Starting point is 00:34:57 I mean, it went pretty dark. Okay. So I've gone dark. Skynet. Yeah. Now I'm trying to pull myself back and try to find some happy medium, but I think this is so important because a lot of people now will just go and chat GPT it for an answer when they don't even do their own research.

Starting point is 00:35:13 They don't know where the information comes. And we've seen the horror stories of founding fathers, African-Americans and all this stuff. Especially with Google. Yeah. With Google, the point is that, yeah, those are our don't be evil major tech companies. With AI, it just makes things further out of our grasp. I mean, Wikipedia is nonsense. You know, I have a Wikipedia profile and it's written by whoever wants to write something

Starting point is 00:35:38 about me. Probably the same maybe with you out there. And then AI is going to take it to the next level. I'm very concerned about it, to be honest. If it's on the blockchain, though, we've got provenance, we've got source. I think there's a ton of upside. If it's in Google's hands, I don't trust them. I don't trust OpenAI because it can be used to dominate. We're in a world where nobody trusts anyone. Sometimes people deserve to be trusted, but I feel like there's just an inherent skepticism of all centralized organizations. Yes. We don't know what's coming with AI, to be honest. I'm very concerned.

Starting point is 00:36:13 So listen, you're talking to millions of people, right? I mean, as you said, even before crypto, you had one of the most popular podcasts in the world. You were very early to podcasting. There's an inherent responsibility, I guess, to how you talk about things and what you talk about. How do you consider that when you're now talking about this industry specifically? I think it's easier now because we're not the crazy guys in the corner. Right. But, and what would you say to them, I guess, as a final message about sort of the coming years and how to participate in this? Yeah, first of all, I never liked the idea

Starting point is 00:36:54 that there's dangerous ideas or I never liked the idea of not treating humans like adults. So I got a lot of heat in 2020 when I had this crazy guy on my show. His name is David Ike. People know him as a conspiracy theorist. And to be honest, I didn't want him on my show for about four years because I thought he was crazy. But in 2018, I said, okay, let's have him on. And I let him speak his mind and I let other people make their decision. Now, later, people said you're being irresponsible for platforming someone like that.

Starting point is 00:37:25 We've all done this. And so that's something I just fundamentally disagree with, that whole tact. It's like you're an adult. You get to be presented with information, and then you can make a decision. And I'm a huge fan of that. And so I always had the person on my show. It's not my job to counteract their arguments or shout over them. In London, we actually have to

Starting point is 00:37:45 give both sides 50% airtime. And so we've got this legacy media that's trying to tell me how to run my show. It's like, no, it's my show. I'll talk to whoever I want. They don't have to be all diversified or whatever. And I'll let them talk as long as they want. And then you can make the decision. There's flat earth videos on YouTube as well. They didn't censor those, by the way. And you can make a decision there as well. And so I went out on a limb. I got censored. A lot of people had problems with it. Some people thanked us for that information. And I do it all over again. And so in this industry, I guess I think about it the same way. I try to present some of the options. I try to tell people what I learned on Wall Street, which is, as Scaramucci once said, I'm really sure about this thing, but I've been wrong before,

Starting point is 00:38:32 so I'm not putting all my money in it. And it's like, I try to tell people that, you know, diversification is king. Everything I invest in, I assume it's gone. So you got to come and just go that. I do. Write it off to zero. Whether it's a house or a stock or a crypto investment. I assume it's gone. And that's the way you should look at all these pieces. So that's what I tell people. I hope that's enough not to get me in trouble. I usually do the usual things. It's not investment advice. I don't know if that actually matters. But I think the biggest mistake is that these people don't invest. So again, my daughter is 20 years old. She can actually own an asset. Wow.

Starting point is 00:39:08 That has a cash flow to it. When you and I grew up, we'd have to wait till we bought a one bedroom apartment when we were 30 to have an asset. Like it's amazing. I just remember the bonds. Yeah. The savings bond. The savings bond you paid 25 bucks and in 30 years or whatever it is you get 50.

Starting point is 00:39:23 It paid you like a 0.1% coupon. Thanks. And yeah, and if you physically lost the thing, it was like a bearer instrument. So it was in your mom's safe. A little different. Right. But now anybody can own assets. So that's surely an advance, you know?

Starting point is 00:39:37 So I'm bullish on all that. My mom has crypto. My stepdaughter has crypto. My seven and eight year old boys have crypto. So yeah. Well, it's a tough needle to thread and you're threading it exceptionally well. Doing my best.

Starting point is 00:39:49 Congratulations. Thank you. And thanks for doing what you do, man. Really appreciate the content. Awesome, man. Well, thank you. All right, brother. If you see me in an orange suit one day, don't be offended.

Starting point is 00:39:57 I got the tailor. I know a guy. I know. Gator all the way. I'm ready. Gator, we need the Gator shoes. Let's go. Gator all the way. I'm ready. Gator, we need the Gator shoes.

The Wolf Of All Streets - Explosive Growth For Bitcoin | Why Brian Rose AKA LondonReal Is So Bullish On Crypto

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