The Wolf Of All Streets - Gary Gensler Is Disappointed That He Can't Break The Law! | What's Next For Bitcoin

Episode Date: July 18, 2023

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SEC Chairman Gary Gensler was very disappointed by part of the Ripple XRP judgment. They said so in a video which I will share with you guys later. I'm going to give you a wild guess as to which part Gary was disappointed about. What do you think? Do you think it was the part where they said that maybe Ripple is not, or XRP, is not in fact a security? Do you think that maybe Gary is slightly disappointed that his opinion and views on what is and is not a security might not actually be the correct legal opinion? One of my favorite guests on today, Bruce Fenton, to discuss that very topic, because we love dunking on Gary Denzel. I also have Trade Boy Cardi on the back of the

show, going to share his views on the market, Bitcoin looking heavy, and a couple of trades that he's looking at right now. It's going to be a fun day. You guys don't want to miss this. Let's go. What is up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, also known as the Wolf of Wall Street. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and take a basketball and dunk it on the like button right on top of Gary Gensler. It's fun watching the SEC lose. Now, right now, there's not that much to talk about in crypto. We kind of had this big news cycle with all the SEC enforcement actions and the BlackRock ETF.

And now it seems we've reached that sort of midsummer malaise that we always get where you want to go outside and touch grass, maybe stick your toe in a lake or something out at an ocean. I don't know what you people do with your free time. But that doesn't mean that just because there's no big news today, there's nothing to talk about because Gary, Gary, by contrary, is so disappointed. You know what? I'm just going to go ahead and bring Bruce on and we're going to talk about, but Bruce, Bruce, before we do it, let me play the video. I don't know if you actually saw it, but let's watch because I just pulled it up. Here we go. You won't be surprised.

There's a lot of interest in cryptocurrency today. Really? Yes. Is this from ChatJPT? No, no. Everything is from humans now. How does the federal court ruling last week in the Ripple case impact your stance toward digital asset regulation?

Does it inject urgency into the need for federal legislation to clarify regulatory oversight of this industry? Look, our mission remains exactly what I spoke about earlier, about investor protection, promoting capital formation, and the markets in the middle. This is a recent decision, just a handful of days ago. We are pleased from that decision recognizing the importance of protecting investors on the institutional investors in that and that the court movement with regard to fair notice. And while disappointed on what they said about retail investors, we're still looking at it and assessing that opinion. What does that even mean? Leave it to the press club to ask the real zingers. Wouldn't it be neat if the press club had journalists? Wouldn't that be neat if they had actual journalists and they said,

why did you meet Sam more than everybody else in the industry combined? You know, do you have ties with Sam's family? You know, those would have been the cool questions. But, yeah, I was shocked. I thought he would have said, hey, my bad. Looks like I was wrong. Made a bad call. The markets have spoken and the courts have spoken.

Let's go forward, America, full steam ahead. No, but my full steam ahead. But my narrative, right? This very statement is disappointment, but what it's basing it on, I mean, it basically knocks the legs out of everything he's been arguing in the bulk of these enforcement actions. Binance obviously is its own thing,

but Coinbase, I mean, of course, he's disappointed because now he has literally nothing to go after Coinbase for. And they spent all these resources and all this time and money. And, you know, it really was, I think if we look at the history books on the judgment of when his fall was, the Coinbase lawsuit was just a bridge too far. Everybody knows, even people who hate Coinbase, know that Coinbase has done every effort they can to be a good actor. They have made every effort possible to comply with the laws. They're not some cowboy out there. There's no allegation that they stole customer funds or anything like this. So it was just way too far of a reach to try and attack

Coinbase on this nonsensical thing. And now, surprisingly, I didn't see this coming with XRP. I figured that that would have a harder case for XRP, but I'm really glad about the decision. I mean, I think it's great. We need to really, really reduce this administrative state. This idea that bureaucrats like Gensler can just make up new rules is a really, really bad idea. So we've got to reduce that. Hopefully, this is a big step in that.

I don't know if you saw this, but Carolyn Pham from the CFTC, obviously, she's one of the five commissioners at the competing regulatory agency. She says that we're getting clarity here. So she takes the opposite. Last year, I said that we were going to see regulatory clarity first in the courts around the definition of security. And I think we've seen that with some very big court opinions that have been released. So CFTC or at least one commissioner from the CFTC and I think general sentiment, people are moving on. This is gone. Yeah, I mean, the industry within two hours of this decision, Coinbase and Kraken had both announced that they would do transactions in Ripple.

My company announced that we would as soon as we're technically able. We don't have any on rails. We'd never worked with XRP before. But yeah, I mean, the law of the land as of this decision is that, you know, XRP is not a security. If XRP is not a security, then there's a whole, if you kind of draw a line of, you know, knowing that Tesla is definitely a security and Bitcoin is definitely not, there's a spectrum in between there. And XRP is, you know, closer to the Tesla side than the Bitcoin side. So if that's not a security, things like Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash, absolutely, definitely. And I've been arguing this for years. I know they're not securities,

but now there's just no argument. Now, even things like ADA, Cardano, things like that, there might've been a gray area. People might've claimed it was a security or might not have. I think this is a huge help to those things. The only thing they're going to be able to claim as a security is something that clearly is like an equity or stock or something. Yeah. And what I find really interesting is that we're seeing all this pushback, SEC, a lot of lawyers' opinions, and everybody's saying the SEC will appeal, and then maybe the Judge

Torres decision is actually based on false knowledge or that it's a crappy decision or whatever. But what they're not talking about is that even if the SEC appeals we're talking about a year year and a half down the road i think if they can't even appeal until next year and then it would be a couple years and you know of course ripple xrp would drag that out forever you know they would they would you know because you can go into court and you you know you could say oh the lawyer has a previous engagement give me three months three months three months three months They'll drag that out. You know, it might be three years. And it'll be a different administration, you know, different chair, different rules. By then,

Congress might have acted, you know, so this is kind of a done deal. And also, it's sort of like, if this becomes the law of the land and you see lots and lots of exchanges trading XRP, which we probably will and we should see, then it's even harder for a court later on to say, no, no, no, this court was wrong. I'm going to reverse the decision. So it's kind of hopefully a done deal. And hopefully, I do agree, we are seeing this clarity. It's in a good way too. I mean, if we come out of this with something that says, hey, you've got to register or be an exempt offering under the rules when you issue it using Reg D or whatever. And then once it trades, if it doesn't meet, if it doesn't continue to meet the criteria being a security, it's not a security. I mean, that's pretty good. That would be kind of a good victory.

I mean, it'd be kind of cool if you could, and then maybe it's a small win for the SEC too. They can make you fill out the paperwork when you first sell it. And then maybe it's a small win for the SEC, too. They can make you fill out the paperwork when you first sell it. And then once it's out there, you don't have to continue because because the thing is, and a lot of people don't realize this, you know, this this come on in and register thing doesn't work because, you know, something like XRP can't comply. They can't be a publicly traded company. They don't have quarterly reports, statements of beneficial ownership, you know, audited boards, you know, all of these kind of things.

And they couldn't do it even if they wanted to. Neither could Ethereum or a lot of other projects. Yeah, I just love the fact that no matter what happens, basically, we have this two-year Goldilocks period here or something, or even more, where all of these companies can basically say, look, we're not securities and everybody can be happy. And like you said, the environment will be so different by the time this is even being brought back in the courts that I think it's basically a done deal. I really like it. Interestingly, there are a lot of people out there in the crypto

community, I guess we'll call it the crypto community, in the Bitcoin community, who are also on Gary Gensler's side here. They're very disappointed. Surprising. It's very surprising. I never thought I'd saw that. You know, I used to be in the anti-war movement. I still am. And I was always surprised that people would just switch. They become pro-war based on whether their party was pro-war or not. And yeah, it's a really, really, really bad take by, and I always make sure to note that it's a subset of Bitcoiners. I'm a Bitcoiner, you're a Bitcoiner, Udi's a Bitcoiner, there's a lot of Bitcoiners. And then there's a subset of kind of maximalists and a subset of that.

And then a subset, you know, you have maximalists like Giacomo Zucco and others who completely, you know, they can't stand any other coin, but they don't want the government to be the one to enforce that. And that's the, I think, wise opinion. It's totally antithetical to Bitcoin ideals, free markets, and in my opinion, cypherpunk values. If you say, you know, the government should, you know, stop this instrument from trading, you know, that's not what free markets are about. You can get into the legal question of, you know, is it a security or not under the law? That's one question. But, you know, the bigger one is, should these laws even exist? And should the government be in the position of stopping XRP or Bitcoin cash or BSV for that matter or anything else? it's not a legitimate role of government. The only legitimate role of government would be, you know, if anything,

would be limited to protecting people from fraud. You know, if somebody outright fraud, you know, defraud somebody. Right, and no fraud exists. And so does theft. Theft's another thing. You know, hacking obviously should be illegal. If somebody hacks and steals your coins,

that should be illegal. But it already is. You know, theft and fraud are illegal. There's not much else that the SEC does. And all the SEC was supposed to do is just make things work right and help protect in fraud and help capital formation. That's what it was originally designed for. It's like, hey, let's help more American companies go public. That's what it's in its original mission, if you look back. Right. We've talked about this at length on Spaces. Obviously, you've been registered. You talk about with FINRA for decades. More than anyone probably in this space, you know what hurdles and obstacles and headaches come with being fully registered. But you haven't always been, quote unquote, anti-SEC. Right? I mean, you've seen a lot of good that the SEC has done for transparency and things like that. So it's really about this SEC for you. Yeah, you know, I'm a libertarian and cap, so I'm not in favor of any kind of government

regulation in general. And when I was running for Senate and all through, you know, my advocacy over the last couple of decades, I've always been in favor of cutting government agencies. But the SEC honestly wasn't one of the ones high on the list. There's a whole bunch of ones that historically have been much more worse and invasive and are much larger. And honestly, as a professional, even as a libertarian, you know, under the thumb of the SEC for 30 years, I never really had a problem with them. I mean, you know, for most of my career, what they did is they, you know, just like I don't have a problem with the state police in New Hampshire. I never interact with them. State police has given me zero hassles

about anything ever in my life in New Hampshire, nothing. I never interacted with them in any negative way. As far as I know, all they're doing is, you know, capturing bad guys, which is exactly what police are supposed to do. Uh, and as you see from, for 90% of my career, that's what it was. It's like, Oh, these are the ones who go after scammers. Well, now they don't go after scammers. Now they go after kind of everybody. They go after political opponents. They go after people they don't like. And mainly they spend a lot of their effort going after people who didn't dot the I's

or cross the T's on paperwork. And even worse, inventing new paperwork that nobody could even comply with, like Coinbase's case, where they could say, you know, just something that they completely pulled out of thin air to try and gain political points rather than actually try and stop scammers or try and protect the public or help with capital formation, which is what their mission is. You mentioned that as a regulated entity that you would immediately now be theoretically utilizing Ripple. What does that actually, or XRP, what does that actually look like from your perspective now in context of this regulatory

regime? How would you use it? What do you have to do to say that you're going to be able to use it? What would you... So we have, the rules are still quite clunky. We have a registered broker dealer called Watchdog Capital, and that company is registered with the SEC, so it can do registered listed securities, either private securities, you know, companies that are not publicly traded yet or companies that are public like, you know, Coinbase or Tesla or Google or whatever. And then we because none of those companies, no regulated SEC company is allowed to really work with with any kind of crypto, including Bitcoin. So you have to do it through a separate entity. So that's how Robinhood and Fidelity and other registered firms like us, they do it through a separate entity. So I'm a big believer in open markets. And a lot of, this is an interesting point that I know

you'll appreciate because a lot of, you know, this kind of subset of Bitcoiners, they seem to be against markets and coming from the markets my whole life, all my life, you know, when I first started as a stockbroker, as a teenager, basically, we listed everything. All brokerages list everything. It's just like Walmart or something like that. Your goal as a store is to list every single thing, even if you hate it, even if you can't stand it, even if it's, you know, the worst coin there is out there, you still want to list it because if nothing else, you want to recommend to the person like, scott sell that you know piece of junk and buy from bitcoin yeah you want them to be able to you want to provide liquidity to those people who are in the i'm not going to pick on any particular coin but you know

whatever the worst coin that you hate the most is you still want people to be able so this idea coming into bitcoin from open markets and having people be like no only thing certain things if you list you know people giving my friend eric bo, he's a hard time, like you listed junk and therefore you're, I just don't get that mentality at all. You know, as a, as a financial company, I would list every single thing I could. If I could press one button right now and know that I'm not going to have regulatory issues and I know that I can technically do it, I would list everything. Does that mean I'm going to recommend it? No, I wouldn't recommend Hex, for example, but I would list anything out there. Whether you like it or not, I would list it and allow people to buy it and mostly sell it. And

I would recommend that they sell it and buy something else in many cases. And that's been Coinbase's approach, right? They had this we'll list everything approach that Brian Armstrong was pretty outspoken about a couple of years ago. So you're not the only one who thinks that. And I think that's the right approach. Exactly what you said. Let the people trade, man. And there's no better regulator than the markets. Gary Gensler can't second guess the market. The markets will work. So the interesting thing with this argument, this kind of statist argument that you see with this subset of Bitcoiners, you know, my attitude is like,

well, what are you worried about? If you allow, if the SEC allows everybody to list everything and everybody lists it, and I have 5,000 tokens and Coinbase and Kraken and everybody else has 5,000 tokens, what are you worried about? Are you worried about like, oh no, those tokens are just going to take over Bitcoin. They're good because now that somebody allows them to be sold. No, the markets are going to take care of it. It's going to be fine. You know, if something is junk, the markets, the masses are out there. You're out there.

The listeners are out there. The people are out there, especially if you can short it. You know, people will sell the stuff, you know, believe in the pricing of the markets. The markets know what stuff is worth and they're going to price it exactly fairly over time. I agree. So I know you're not necessarily looking at markets to any great degree, but do you think that this should generally be bullish for the market here? What are you thinking when you look at the market at this point? I mean, Bitcoin at this exact moment doesn't look the greatest that it's ever looked but we did see the massive move on this basically from 25 000 to 31 that was on the etf news and bitcoin hasn't really moved on the

ripple news at all we saw a lot of all points that had that had gone down because of uh the sec enforcement actions bounced back to where they were you know matic ada kind of the ones you named solana that have been named in this but bitcoin's done kind of of nothing. You've been around a long time. Are you surprised that Bitcoin didn't react to this ripple news? Not really. Nothing surprises me too much. I mean, I think some of the people take the money off of Bitcoin to buy some of these other coins. You know, those buyers are going to be Bitcoin holders. You know, I think overall, you know, and this is also a counter narrative. And I think it's emerging now with people like Udi and others who've kind of talked about this. You know, they're I think there needs to be a place for

kind of this this open market idea. I think we can all be friends. Maybe it sounds naive or silly, but I think we can all be friends. You know, I think I think that we can have this this, you know, broader industry where we don't look at it like, you know, this adversarial thing. You know, tribalism doesn't work in investing. In the traditional markets, you don't have the people being like, I'm a Microsoft guy. I mean, you do a little bit, a couple of people on Twitter, but smart investors don't do that. Smart investors are focused on what works. And if you're like, okay, I'm a full Bitcoin person and I believe in Bitcoin as the best chain, it's not that effective to sit there hating on some other, you know,

change. Jokes about like, you don't get many gold bugs who are like, you do get gold bugs who are this passionate to some degree, but you don't get them going like Amazon stock is a scam. Yeah. Or silver. I hate silver. Silver's for losers.

That really? Gold's worth a thousand times more yeah i like gold therefore i hate google yeah right exactly i think that i hope that we'll see more of a kind of rising tides lift all boats you know i'd like to go back to more of the 2013 kind of ethos where we viewed it all as one industry now that doesn't mean that you have to accept scams and junk and stuff. Sure, there's junk, of course, you know, but I think, I really do think it is one, you know, overall industry that has a lot of connections. And I think that Bitcoin has been helped by all coins, including Ethereum and trading and the narrative and defining itself against that. And I think that, you know, obviously, you know, Ethereum has been helped by Bitcoin and all these other projects. And, you know, so I kind of hope that I hope this will will be a tide that lifts all boats. You know, if you have if it helps with more clarity for something like XRP, I hope that actually helps Bitcoin, because if the industry is healthier, the whole broad industry, and that includes finance or whatever, even people you may disagree with their use case. I think that makes the overall industry a lot healthier. I don't think

an industry where some tyrant in offices, you know, concrete offices in Washington is putting his thumb out there and say, there can only be three assets, Litecoin, Bitcoin, and, you know, whatever. I don't think that's a good world. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Bitcoin needs economic freedom to work. And freedom means like, let people do their stuff. Let the markets figure out what things are worth. Don't worry about it so much. I've made the argument in the past to much the chagrin of Bitcoiners or to a lot of controversy. CZ, Brian Armstrong, the guys that are these massive shitcoiners have brought exponentially

more people into Bitcoin than Bitcoiners have. I also make the argument that Dogecoin and memes and all the things that get people trading this market as speculators, even if 90% of those people disappear, the 10% that stay have learned more about Bitcoin open to wallet. And probably that's done more for Bitcoin than angry Bitcoin. Absolutely. It's a learning curve. Almost everybody in Bitcoin starts out trading, you know, first they start trying to mine and then they start trying to trade and then they try to find the next Bitcoin and then they wonder who Satoshi is and then they go through a cycle.

And it's similar in the traditional markets. You know, when I was a little, I was lucky enough because my mom was in the industry. I started as a really, really little kid, but a lot of people have this little kid mentality. Same thing I had when I was 10. I'm like, oh, I want to buy penny stocks because they're cheap. That's what I thought when I was 10. And unfortunately there's a lot of, you know, 35 year olds who have the same idea. And so you see it in the traditional markets and, you know, there's nothing wrong with penny stocks and junk bonds, let people buy them. But overall, ultimately people

gravitate towards the quality assets and you have people who look and say what's the earnings what's this company do that kind of thing and you're gonna have the same in this space you have and also you know you don't want to be too broad of a brush to just say every single thing is always junk collectibles are not junk collectibles are a multi-billion dollar industry i have them all over in the background i didn't buy any of these nfts because i think they're ridiculous i have a you know really cool piece of art right behind me here that costs a lot less than most nfts and is worth a lot more um but they still have value and so do securities have value for sure everything's going to be tokenized

tesla and everything blackrock has said that that's a really really big deal by the way uh and then there's like to ignore that part too yeah you know so so the you know these narratives come in that debate uh even safety admits that securities are gonna i mean even safety and we used to uh debate this a little bit oh well you know years ago but even safety as you know knows that securities i mean securities are securities anybody who understands the economy knows that um if you just because you tokenize something if if Elon does what Overstock did, Overstock tokenized part of their publicly traded stock, a several hundred million dollar, sometimes billion dollar company. Tesla could do exactly the same thing. Overstock did it legally under the rules.

He could do it on any chain he wants, Ethereum, bitcoin he could use dogecoin and a lot of people would be really annoyed if he used dogecoin but you know what it doesn't mean that that is a junk asset it's it's going to have value because tesla has value or spacex or whatever he did it with so you know those tokens are going to have value collectibles are going to have value there's probably other things that do and maybe there'd be more more than one kind of form of money but it's all real early anyway. We might as well experiment, try stuff. You know, I'm not too active with other chains and things, but I'm a big believer in experimentation.

I encourage everybody to, you know, go try new things. Totally agree. Bruce, I'm going to see you on Twitter spaces in about 50 minutes, right? Yes, sir. All right, man. Thank you so much for all of your insight and for showing up to dunk on the SEC with me.

You're my favorite person to do that with. So anytime. Thank you, sir. Here we are. Thanks, man. Thank you so much for all of your insight and for showing up to dunk on the SEC with me. You're my favorite person to do that with. So anytime I get you, here we are. Thanks, man. See you in a few minutes. Bye. All right, guys. Obviously, I totally agree with Bruce's perspective there, and you should show up for Twitter Spaces at 10.15. And now, as you know, on the back half of

the show, we've been moving on to trades and traders. Now, somebody said, Jayay where is cardi he's my idol he's my idol not often do i get to just flat out bring somebody's idol on but i'm gonna do it right now yeah we don't do the anonymous people very much but we got trade boy cardi but he does have the uh psycho you got the psycho so you're cool what's up man scott how you been man how's it how's it going? I can't complain unless Bitcoin just dumps here. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're still like, you're trading this five-minute charts all day, right, as a job. So, you're deeper in the weeds on this than I am. I'm going to go ahead and drop your charts on here. What are you looking at right now for bitcoin broad strokes so bitcoin like uh on the intraday like i so in terms of like uh bitcoin i'll trade it intraday eats as well but like the altcoins unless it's like the top mover of the day um i'll just play them in the higher time frames these days i'm taking a different approach to the market since uh we last spoke say two years ago or one, maybe three. I'm on another live stream. Bitcoin right now, I mean, there's not much to tell you. It's heavy. Yeah. I don't really put anything on my charts.

It's just kind of naked. But I was sure yesterday we saw this in the bounce. And for people watching, you see a bounce like this. It doesn't make a new high. I mean, I'm a pretty easy invalidation here right so it doesn't make a new high you're going like this and then like i guess you target new lows for like a two percent move but um yeah since we like i used to be the one minute guy i used to trade a lot in one minute yeah maybe bitcoin i will trade more so in the one minute just for you know scalping you know not now because it's so illiquid so you can't really make the same moves

that you can make once spoke a few years ago. But I'm pretty bullish, even though the market's looking like... Well, this to me is a dip to buy. I'm looking for, I think maybe 28.6 is what I've kind of been looking at

for quite a while. But yeah, I'm looking for, I think maybe 28.6 is what I've kind of been looking at for quite a while. But yeah, I'm not, when I say it looks like it's ready to dump, it looks like it's ready to dump to head back up. I just think it needs liquidity. That 31, there's so many wicks above it to me. It just looks like it's just not ready to go yet. I feel like it's doing something like this and then right back up. So it'll do something like this. So right back up so it'll do something like this so maybe like a bleed here and then back up

I'm actually looking for something similar like what you just said more so like this area 28 to 28 let's call it 28.8 I'm like yeah

yeah like a lot of people are going to buy these stops. Like the equal lows here, there's going to be a lot of bids here. Don't want to buy them when it looks like this, especially on the daily, not necessarily. I mean, if there's a strong reaction here, I'll find a way to get back in on that one minute and place it for some upside. But at the moment, I think that's a crowded trade.

It's pretty obvious. I mean, actually lately, it seems like a pretty obvious trade is the one that actually pays but yeah 20 that 25 000 was like the most obvious trade everybody was watching for months and it played out perfectly yeah exactly like you wanted to buy like this like area consolidation as previously i hear right and it came down and then boom see you later so um it's like uh it's looking pretty uh i mean it's not it's not like every time you think it's going to break down like here here's a like a little like alpha for your viewers like a range will will uh exist longer than you think right so everybody every single time it came down here right now it's everybody shorted right

yeah everybody shorted and every time it came up here, everybody lunged. For ages, I wanted to get these swept up here. All right? And the amount of times I got faked out trying to get this, I eventually got it, and it was because of the Ripple news. But yeah, and then the same thing down here. You want this area, but I think it's greater to buy it down in this area where you have the consolidation year, the 29s, like 28 like 28 8 maybe all the way down to like 27 9 and you catch this

you want to swing it i don't want to i don't want to take it on like a one minute time frame like i'm trying to so in this part of the cycle like i'm trying to actually like build um not only my personal but on like uh with my firm um for people who don't know i'm a i'm a prop trader um senior trader at the a prop firm and uh i'm just trying to build bags that i could hold going into like the 2024 having i have like a pretty bullish outlook and i have like a pretty decent macro thesis in my mind that I'm going to play. So far, all my macro plays have played out.

I've been very lucky enough not to be wrong that often. I bought the FTX 16K. I bought TetherFUD I think in the low 20s or something like that. You've got a really low cost

basis on your longer term bag here yeah I'm really like focusing like on the longer term bag like I want to buy the FUD unless there's like extreme extreme FUD but like I've been around this industry so long like so when Gary was going after

like all these like crypto companies and we're seeing that bleed all the way down 25k here like um i was extremely bullish like i was like this is all coordinated and like when i do my my investment thesis so like i know you're talking you know you know i come from a training background when i do my investment thesis because i do invest in banks too in this space. Of course, they're like based off the charts when I'm going to enter and like my invalidations and stuff like that. But it's a lot of it's based on like the news headlines and like how I interpret them. I mean, I like I compile news headlines every single day that I think would affect all markets, including crypto.

And like the flood of like Gary going after like all these companies, it was way too coordinated in my mind. It was like one after the other, after the other. I was like, okay, like this is like just getting ridiculous. It's not like it's a one-off, right? So like it's going to cause panic in the markets. And then what really like gave me confirmation like to buy this area here was like George Soros coming out and saying like he's bullish on crypto.

Like I'm not like, I don't want to like come on this show and be like conspiracy theorist at all. But like George Soros coming out and saying like he's bullish on crypto. Like I'm not like, I don't want to like come on this show and be like conspiracy theorist at all. But like George Soros. Oh, we do that here all the time. Okay. Then in that case, that man is like, like they snuck that headline in, in between the fuds. It was like fud, fud, fud, George fud, fud, fud. It was like, man, like this guy is like, he's got to have his hand in the pocket somehow here. And, you know, he was waiting for a dip and now he's in.

He said, okay, I'm good. And then the FUD stopped and then we rallied up. So, I mean, like that was like pretty good conviction for me to like make the play. And then. Are we talking about Fink or are we talking about, I didn't even see Soros news. So, I don't know. Are we talking about Larry Fink? Yeah.

This is pre-Fink. This is pre-Fink. So, it was like during the FUD, we had like Gary going after SEC, DOJ All this kind of stuff Gary's going after Binance SEC going after Binance SEC going after all these tokens Like non-stop

And It was pretty much like And then they snuck it in like George Soros is bullish on crypto Like so if you guys The people that are listening I do a newsletter with my prop shop every week. Well, in the summer, it's every two weeks. But we spoke about this. We snuck in the George.

We highlighted the George Soros news around this. That was June 7th. I'm looking it up now. Yeah. They snuck that in a bunch with all that. I'm like, wait a minute. I remember whether it's true or not i remember what this guy did during the george floyd riots like with the funding and

all that kind of stuff i remember what he did with the british pounds you know like this guy's not a good human being and like to say that he has doesn't have his hand in crypto we know he does in the bull run he was like bullish at the top so he got people wrecked um but like on the way down he's bullish here like george soros well i'm like i'm pretty sure he's short here so i'm like uh i feel like the fud was coordinated it was too easy for me i bought and like i also bought like solana like in the 13s i was like yeah so what do you know what else are you are you looking you said you sort of swing the alts on bigger positions what are you looking at? You said you sort of swing the alts on bigger positions. What are you looking at now?

What's your general vibe on the altcoin market? Yeah, so right now on the altcoin market, I'm extremely bullish. I'm so bullish on the alts. But the market's still PVP. It's still peer-to-peer. It's low liquidity. And aside from the coin that's moving the most on the day, don't know what's a good chart to think of like i don't know let's look at like xtz for a second all right like and hey i don't know what's going the most today i can show here like no one knows

that here's kind of the big movers sui is up eight percent h bar five percent xtc six link is up so it's been performing a bit yeah so if you go like these like low like the low time frames on some of these charts like i say now probably your listeners don't remember like from our day but this looks like sega genesis like some image chart so like i'm not gonna like i wouldn't trade this i wouldn't have bids on this but like if you're looking at say like like pepe or like solana let's call solana like solana i'm super bullish on i was bullish down here in the 12s for like and the 13s for like on this capitulation for a reason one for a few reasons and like when i do with my investments i also look at like the worst case

scenarios like how could this go lower aside from price action? In the Solana's case, the biggest backer of the space committed the biggest fraud in, the second biggest fraud in human history. That came as the dip. Yeah. It didn't go to zero. It didn't go to zero. And then, you know, all the guys that were bullish on this space, sorry, on Solana, which Shill and Nonstop, like the Maddie, like the CINO Capitals, like the MultiCoins,

like these guys got wiped out on FTX. So all the guys that were like, super like, if you want to call them good or bad actors on your opinion, like the Shillers are gone because they've trusted FTX since they were with Sam. And it's like the third biggest used chain after Bitcoin and ETH. So like, why wouldn't this exist? Like you go on TikTok, like all these kids, when they're around, they talk about Solana NFTs more than they talk about ETH NFTs just because of the gas fees. So like, I mean, like they'll come back eventually.

So it's just a good mindset to like buy something that's down that low and look what happened. I mean, we saw like. Yeah, but when you say you're super bullish on the alts right now,

you mean like we go into a full on full blown multiple 10X type alt season or you're looking to scalp them? No, no scalping. Like, I mean, I haveblown, multiple 10X type alt season, or are you looking to scalp them? No, no scalping. Like, I mean, I have like my, like, if something's like moving like crazy on the intraday, I'm going to scalp them.

But like, I have like certain coins that I'm adding to like a bag with slides. So I have like Solana. I have Pepe, which I'm going to like, I mean, it looks like it's at like support here, but I would buy it all the way down, like every dip. Like everybody hates this website with a passion. NFTs are in capitulation right now.

So that's why I want to buy Blur. People are saying non-stop. Would you actually buy any of the NFTs? Would you buy it when they're 20-something floor or just on the coins that are associated? No, 100% I would buy it. been floor or you just focus on the coins that are associated no 100 out by listen that they always find a way to give money to like uh their community even though like their community is kind of a bit of a cult in my mind but uh that's what you need if you're gonna make money yeah exactly i mean so is pepe right and so it's a lot to their own degrees you know 100 like i consider like on

the ape floor i consider the apes like either the bitcoin or the ETH of NFTs, or now you could call the punks the Bitcoin, because they're the OGs, and then the ETH is the apes. So if those start spiking up, all the other NFTs will spike up again, and then this should spike up. This is the only exposure you have to the NFT market for the biggest marketplace, aside from OpenSea. they don't have a token right so that's why i want to look at this even though like the market cap is a bit high like i don't see why i can't come back to at least like 80 cents and i shared it publicly i'm buying every dip um and then like so like like yeah for my my bags that i'm looking at like i'm bullish on the

alls just because like i know how this space works. And if you just look right now, everybody's shilling roll bit, right? Yeah. It's a casino, but this whole entire industry, aside from, let's call it Bitcoin- Is a casino. Is a casino. So the money is always going to come in here

and the money always flows down. And I've tweeted it. I have it. I used to have it as my pinned tweet and now it's in my highlights. Two years ago, I knew this ETF thing was going to happen eventually with the big boys I didn't expect BlackRock to come in to be honest but like now that BlackRock and Vanguard are coming on the ETF like in my mind this ETF will pass, like the BlackRock will pass

they just have way too much political power for it to not pass like I mean they're rebuilding Ukraine. So, I mean, that helps the democratic cause. And, like, they're big democratic donors. I don't see why they wouldn't get passed. But I'm not a lawyer or an expert, but I have a pretty strong gut feeling. And then, so once those guys come in, like, you have, like, you know, the vanguards and BlackRock, the rest are irrelevant to my mind, but those two, like, the volatility that we see in Bitcoin will, the, uh, the vanguards and black rock, the rest are irrelevant to my mind,

but those two, like the volatility that we see in Bitcoin will like cease to exist. It'll trade like the S and P like the ES. I agree. They're going to just flatten it. Yeah. It'll be, it'll be like, I mean, you'll have your like crazy moves on news or whatnot, but like in terms of like extrapolating, like, like alpha from, or like making money on this or like positive EV positions would be way harder. It's just going

to be because their algorithms are better than any human that exists. And their algorithms are better than the algorithms that exist in crypto right now. And Citadel's coming in too. So once you put all three of those together, the volatility is done. It's going to trade gold or the ES. And yeah, you can make money, but it's not going to be worth trading. So the average participant, they're not going to trade the ETF, but the money is going to just flow downwards. And we always know that. If Bitcoin were to go to 40K today, even though let's say it was ETF related, the alternative edge would see money because you get retail back in and they think to themselves, sorry for those people, news um you would hear like you'd see like uh non-stop like retail just funneling down the mainstream media picking up you you know you go back on tiktok and you see like the kids talking about crypto again

and like they would just money would just flow down like the meme season we had like a little hiccup of it like a bit new money entered the space but like imagine like the meme coin season across all the alts because there's no way i way that's not that's just the old school alt season right i mean we used to see that exactly and yet like how aggressive it was when shit you'd never heard of it was like 20x in a day the best but that's how it used to be i remember in 2017 you just threw a dart at a board and then like you made five i would buy 50 things and then when they went up 10x i would just sell and buy something else that hadn't moved. That was literally my entire strategy. Yeah. And 2021 was, in my opinion, harder than 2017. Yes, I know they're printing in

great money, but in terms of the easy of making money in crypto, 2017 was a joke compared to 2021. Yeah. 2021, we still had those crazy flushes because all the altcoins were on USDT pairing whereas in 2020- It was only the coin pairs. We still had those crazy flushes because all the altcoins were on USDT pairing. Yeah, it was only the coin pairs. Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah.

So the money is just going to flow down. And then that's when I started looking at certain narratives that I think would have a rally to the next cycle. So I have a friend of mine very close who's made the most amount of money in crypto that I know. I'm not going to share his name, but of all the people that I know in real life, he's made the most amount. And he's American. And one of the banks that he uses stopped servicing him because of the crypto exposure

or whatnot. Yeah. And it just infuriated him because he has like so much money with them uh he has like mortgages through that everything you know like because he does like real estate investments as well and he's like listen like going into like the like he's in crypto he's not like just like a non-nate like a non-crypto user he's like been around just as long as us and he says listen you know what like my portfolio like all these like i'll always continue to trade just so i have something to do during the day and like he loves the markets the guy's like married he's like he just loves them like non-stop he just talks about

them all the time which is which is great um but he says like he diversifies portfolio into real estate for like investment properties and then he made a pretty good comment to me which i'd like i didn't think about this because the banking issue really doesn't affect me where I live but it affected him and I imagine it affects a lot of people he's like yeah the metal guy for sure exactly he's like I don't trust the banks

so I'd rather just buy like I'd rather just stake ETH 105% a year and I could just hedge the returns if I have to if I think the market's bearish. And it made like... I never thought of it like that, but he's like,

I still get 5%. It'd be sometimes the same thing as you'd earn in real estate. Same mentality as buying treasuries. Exactly. Same for free. Exactly. So like the treasuries, but those yields won't always be around treasuries. I don't know if the ETH yield is always going to be around 5%, but having said that, that made like a pretty good idea in my mind. And because of that, like I'm bullish on like the liquid staking DeFi.

So like guys can like take that and like, you know, like earn, like leverage their stake ETH and all that kind of stuff. And I think that's what will happen. You're bullish on DeFi. I feel the same way. I got to pack it in and get ready to head over to Spaces. But just to- This is the last one. Yeah, go ahead.

Last one. So we saw like Pendle go to like Binance. It's the same concept. Stake ETH, liquid staking DeFi, low market cap. Unless I'm not trying to shell a coin. I own this, so I will say I own it, so please don't buy it. But I do believe a coin like this, LBR, would be worth a speculative play in a portfolio of, let's say, under 1%. And then you just see what the upside is.

If it goes to zero, then you lost less than 1%. You don't care. But I'm super bullish, Scott. Every like every market will be too and but like uh it's coming man like the the next wave is coming awesome man i couldn't agree more so uh tons of alpha there man you rattled it off i really appreciate that um now we let you go back to scalping the one minute charts on just kidding so guys everybody follow Trade Boy Cardi on Twitter it's Twitter it's slash Trade Boy Cardi right it's at Trade Boy Cardi 16

guys go follow him oh 16 that's right one of my favorite people to follow and we chat in the background quite a bit so incredible perspective man thank you for coming on and sharing your views. Thanks so much buddy. Have a good day. You too. Alright guys now we gotta head over and get ready for Twitter spaces you know because the party never

stops even on a day when there's no actual news. Of course you gotta go check out Meld. Look we had the banner up and everything. There's a banner-y thing. Check them out. Get a bunch of free stuff. But yeah, you could actually earn yield.

Actually, on Sunday, so two days ago, I put out a podcast conversation with Ken Alling from MELD. He's the CEO. He's awesome. And you should just listen to that. We talked about not really just about MELD, but about the future of DeFi and understanding the risk and yield. The yield is still a good thing, right? We talked about not really just about MELD, but about the future of DeFi and

understanding the risk and yield. The yield is still a good thing, but you have to choose and understand the risk of doing it. It has to be transparent and you have to hold your own keys and hold your own assets. It has to be non-custodial. So just check that out. Do it. Do it. Check it out. Otherwise, I'll see you guys tomorrow. Peace. Bye. Later. See ya. Vamos.